##VIDEO ID:5kAME1C8Wp4## Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you through the abundant grace and mercy that you showed us. You allowed us to come together to conduct a city's business. And Father, I pray that you help us to come in together with the spirit of unity, to treat each other as brothers and sisters, even though we may disagree, let us not disrespect or disengage from one another, but work together in the spirit of unity. We say a special prayer for all our brothers and sisters in the armed first forces who are serving at home and abroad, and a special prayer of our first responders on every shift. On every call. Lord, be with heaven. Watch over them as they watch over us. We're so careful to give you the praise, the honor and glory you do. And your son's name we pray. Amen. Amen. I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America in the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty, and justice for all. Commissioner Kennedy Here. Commissioner Wilson. Here. Mayor Johnson. Here. Commissioner Furner. Here. Commissioner Oliver here. All right. We have no presentations or proclamations. We have next will be the staff report. Uh, nothing at this time. Alright, next will be public comments. I have two under the, uh, first part of the meeting here. Jim Moyer. Good evening. My name's Jim Moyer, Dr. Jim Moyer. I live in Arden Park, and I want continue the conversation that we started last commission meeting in regard to the possibility of an co e Mayor's Veterans Advisory Council. And I'm using the, um, orange County Veteran Advisory Council as an example, and I want to explain what they're doing. And it's far more than just events, and it's far more than helping veterans get to the Department of Veterans Affairs. They have a leadership team that's made up of 16 people. And the a co, I mean, the Orange County, uh, veterans Service Office is just one of those 16. And they have a list of veteran service organizations. And the Department of Veteran Affairs is just one of 16 VSOs. There's a lot we could do here, here in. Now I understand we're a smaller city, but there are other, There are other cities in Florida, for example, Sebastian has about 27,000 population. They have a Veterans advisory council, uh, do in, has about 37,000 population, but they have a Veterans Advisory Council. Our city of Ocoee is rich and has a history of veterans right here, the street right out here named after Captain Bluford Sims, the, uh, the house right over here named after general. Um, and what I'd like to see is to continue this discussion about the possibility of an OCO e uh, mayor's Veterans Advisory Council. Um, so, and I can, I will do anything I can to help, uh, make that come to fruition. The next Orange County, uh, veteran advisory meeting is this Thursday, uh, at one 30, the, uh, December 5th at one 30, albeit that I've be been at the last several meetings. And I'd just like us to come together form a council and do all we possibly can do for the Veterans of Acco. Thank you for your time, and God bless you all. Thank you, doctor Moer. Noreen Doan. Good evening everyone. I'm Noreen Doan, editor-in-Chief of Vox Populi. We're a digital news site and we cover government and politics. So hope everybody had a good Thanksgiving. Um, so first I just wanna start out by, uh, commending a co for, um, all the good things that it's done to heal after the 1920 Koi massacre. Um, you've done such strong work, good work with the, um, koi Remembrance event with the apology and with the establishment of Unity Park. That's such a gorgeous park. And I was at the ribbon cutting there. So there's also a new memorial there, which I was, uh, recently at. And it's beautiful. My question to the commission is, why isn't there going to be a public unveiling of that? There was a big deal made about Unity Park and at the ceremony, much was made about the environmental impact of the park, but not a whole lot was talked about, about why the park was called Unity Park. And it's supposed to be like a symbol of the city coming together. Now, this is a, a wonderful memorial and it's got the names of everybody who lost their lives or was, you know, driven out of the, the city. And I think without a public ceremony to unveil it, very few people are gonna know that it's there. So my question is, why isn't there going to be something public to acknowledge that? And I'll wait for an answer. There was, There was, there Was There was a ceremony for the descendants? No, it was open to the public. Public. It was November 2nd. There was public people there. Four 30. It was there at four 30. Was it announced? Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I calendar. We never got a press release about it. It was, it was open to the public. It was there, it was, people were there, somebody knew, you know. Okay. Apologies. Okay. Thank you. Alright, next. That's all the ones for that issue. Right now we need to go to the, uh, consent agenda. I'll make a motion to approve Motion made by Commissioner Wilson to approve the consent agenda. Do I hear a second? I'll Second. Seconded by Commissioner Kennedy. Any more comments? Let's vote. All right. We have item number 16. First reading of ordinance. First reading of ordinance for MDTL Enterprise, LLC Property Conservation Track annexation Like me to proceed. Yeah. In ordinance of the city of Ocoee, Florida, annexing into the corporate limits of the city of Ocoee, Florida. Certain real property containing approximately 9.9 acres located on the east side of Oco Apopka Road, beginning approximately 2,300 feet north of the intersection of Oco Apopka Road at Palm Drive. Then approximately 508 feet east of OCO Apopka Road and assigned parcel ID numbers zero seven dash two two dash 28 0 0 8 7. Pursuant to the applications submitted by the applicant, findings said annexation be consistent with the Florida statutes, the COE comprehensive plan, the Acoe city code, and the Joint Planning Area Agreement, providing for and authorizing the update of the official city maps, providing direction to the city clerk, providing for severability prevailing in the event of any inconsistency and providing for an effective date. That it, that's it. All right. That'll be back on December the 17th for the second reading. Anybody in the public wants to make comments on it? That'll be the time. Alright, item number 17. First read of ordinance for the annual comprehensive plan. Text amendment to adopt five year schedule of capital improvements and update the capital improvement element In ordinance of the city of Ocoee, Florida. Amending the OCO e comprehensive plan as adopted in 1991 as amended in order to comply with section 1 63 0.3177 subparagraph three, Florida statutes amending the capital improvements settlement to the comprehensive plan, providing for severability, providing an effective date. All right, same thing. It'll be back on December the 17th for the public. Make comments December the 17th. All right, let's go to item second, read of ordinances. Item number 18, second readable ordinance for Citywide Golf Cart Police, chief Ogburn. Good evening, commissioner. Mayor, are you gonna read it? Go ahead. You gonna Sheriff's like me to let him read it first and then you can. Happy To An ordinance of the city of Ocoee Florida adopting a new Article three of Chapter 1 53 of the City Code authorizing the use of golf carts and low speed vehicles within the city limits of ocoee. Defining terms, providing for reg the regulation of golf carts and low speed vehicles, including the hours of operation, age regulations, and posting of signs to de to designate public roadways for golf cart use, establishing terms and procedures for violations and penalties, providing for sub ability, providing for the ordinance to prevail over any inconsistency in the city code, providing for codification and providing for an effective date. Good afternoon. Uh, mayor Commissioners again, um, with the passing of this ordinance, please understand that my position is the safety of all involved, meaning golf carts and, um, the traveling motorist. Um, the ordinance is going to allow golf carts to travel on roads that are posted 30 miles an hour and below. Um, I would like to implement this in phases and not all at one time. And the reason I would like that is 'cause we, I would like to learn the behavior of the golf carts in the downtown area. So with that first phase, I would like to implement from Kissimmee to the West, Lakeshore to the East, Orlando to the South, and Blueford to the north. And, um, my concerns are the traffic flow and the interaction with these golf carts and the lack of safety features that these golf carts are gonna have, as well as how these golf carts are gonna be received downtown with the parking. Um, people are normally parking in parking spaces. If you see a golf cart there, that's gonna force someone to have to go find someplace else to stay. Also with that, I would not like to see, or we would not like to see golf carts parked on the curbs or on the grass. Another concern with the golf carts parking like that is there's no way to identify who owns these golf carts 'cause they're, they're not registered. So there are a lot of behaviors that we would like to get under control before we go and implement the second phase of this golf cart ordinance. Alright, commissioners comments. I have a, uh, just a question. This phase approach, uh, have you, um, identified any, um, any timeframes or time limits, uh, per phase? Uh, particularly this first phase, We would like to implement four 30 day trial period in this, in the areas that I just identified between Orlando and Lakeshore, I'm sorry. Uh, Lakeshore and Kissimmee. Orlando and Blueford, yes. For 30 days. Yes sir. You think that would be enough time to, uh, to really capture, uh, behavioral data as far as traffic flow and the, um, interaction with golf carts? I would hope so. If I have to, if we have to extend it, I would ask for an extension, but hopefully within that 30 days, because we got the holidays coming up, uh, people will be outta school, our kids will be outta school, and, um, just want to get the behavior down. So hopefully if we need to extend it, we will In, in interest of public safety, uh, I, I think that, uh, just to, to capture that kind of data, um, I would like to see a little more time, um, put into that study to, to determine those behaviors from both, both sides of it. Because not only we talking about, uh, operating golf carts, we also talk about operating motor vehicles as well. That's interacting with something new to the roads. I think that it, it, uh, uh, if we can look at maybe expand in a time a little bit more, that may give us, uh, a little more data and, uh, uh, give you more information to, to work with when it comes to implementing this, um, uh, in the next phase. Okay. We can take that into consideration. Well, I know, I know in Winter Garden, they park in the regular parking spots. Uh, I, I don't know how long Winter Garden has had it, but I'm pretty sure there's some education involved in that and we would like to get that started here as well. Have you asked, have you asked for in any information from them? I have, and it has not been positive. You know, it's, it's golf carts all over the place, you know, so, Yeah. Alright. Anybody else? I do, I don't Have any questions. Go ahead. Go ahead, rich. I don't have any questions. Oh, go ahead. Um, the ordinance as written doesn't contemplate this phased implementation or does it? I assume that's directed to me, if I can answer. Yes, sir. Sorry. The, That's a good question and it does not specifically say phased approach. However, there's a lot of discretion given a staff in it. So I would direct you to, uh, section 1 53 dash 22 where it says that in accordance with section 3 16 22 12, Florida statutes, the city shall post signs allowing operation of golf, golf carts on golf cart permitted roadways, and that can designate either an individual street or an entire neighborhood. And then subparagraph B is, is, is I think what gives chief ogburn this discretion before posting such signs. The city shall make a planning determination that a reasonably prudent person driving a golf cart in accordance with this article may safely travel on or cross the public roadway making this determination. The city shall consider factors including the speed, volume, and character of motor vehicle traffic using the public roadway. So I would, I would, uh, suggest that language gives Chief Ogburn a a lot of discretion in making this planning level decision as to, you know, how, how these golf carts can be safely implemented. Thank you. Um, I, I, I don't like the concept of passing an ordinance and continuing to study. I think we either do one or we do the other. And I, I guess what I'm hearing from you, chief, is you don't think this ordinance is ready? Well, well, commissioner, I I would say that, um, in your subdivisions that are lower than 35 individuals can utilize their golf carts. It's just in this area right here. We have a school down the, uh, street where we will have cars and kids and golf carts trying to utilize this highway at the same time. So we kinda wanna learn that behavior before we just go and say, open a carte blanche and just let people just drive when and wherever they want to. Um, but again, there are certain roads that golf carts could never cross, and those roads are still there. Clark Road Colonial, uh, any road that's posted over 30 miles an hour, it is just, we would like to study the downtown area a little bit more before we just open it up. But the subdivisions, if you are a gated community 25 miles an hour, you're more than welcome to use your golf cart in there. There is no regulation, that's not a trial ba basis in that area, it's just this area right here. So you're, to be clear, you're comfortable that you have the authority and the discretion as the city attorney said, and as this ordinance is written, you're happy that you can implement a phased plan. Do Yes, sir. I am. Any Additional concerns with that? That, Again, my, my primary position is the safety of the operators in the vehicles. Um, yes, sir. I, I do feel comfortable with that. Okay. Thank you. Mm-Hmm. Would we then have to make a motion conditioned upon a phased implementation? No. Okay. Uh, he wants to make another comment on that. I, I, I, I should, should have added one more point. And that is, the language that I read from, from our ordinance actually comes from the state statute. Uh, and so the language is almost identical. So, so he has to, he has to make this planning level determination regardless whether it's in our ordinance or not. Okay. My concern is, is strictly that we have a map attached and it doesn't show phase zone one, phase one or, or whatever that would be called. And so, to me, we pass an ordinance, we say we allow golf carts, we have a map that shows basically citywide golf cart map, excluding looks like gated communities. I think that's unclear. Well, what is clear, I would suggest is that golf carts may only be operated where signs are posted, allowing golf cart usage. And so that's where Okay. The state statute trumps our ability to, uh, do that without a study. You're Yes sir. I am. And I'm good. Thank you. Alright. Everybody's made a comment, checked out. I need a motion. I'll make a motion to the do the golf court ordinances Mayor. And it's a public hearing. We just need to open the public. I do. I gotta open public. Okay. Public care. Let's open to public care. And anybody got comments on the golf cart ordinance? Hey, Crip, Just one question. Good evening. My name's Jane Rena. I live in, uh, forest Oaks subdivision, which the golf cart ordinance won't affect us 'cause it's off of Clark Road. My one question is, though, are riders in golf carts required to wear seat belts? Is the flight attendant in me? What was the question? Uh, uh, golf. When you ride in your golf cart, do you have to have a seatbelt on? Uh, normally they're not equipped with them, but you can modify them for them. But It's not required. No. No. Oh, okay. That's all I want to know. Thank you. Don't forget to fill that form out. All right. We have a motion. Anybody else in the public have any comments on that golf cart before I close the public hearing? Alright. Close the public hearing and bring it back. We have a motion by Commissioner Kendall here. Second. I'll Second a motion Seconded by Commissioner Oliver. No more comments. Let's vote. Motion carries Unanim. Alright, we're down to public hearing and we have any, none. Go to regular agenda Item 19, update and request directions to city manager and city attorney regarding city co consultants. Investigation City's right of first refusal and Forest Lake's request for approval of assignment related to city owned property. Located at 1 0 5 2 1 Clear Corner Road, OCO Forest Lake Golf Course and facilities City Attorney Artman At the right spot. Mayor, want me over here do care? Uh, mayor Commissioners Kurt Artman, uh, with the Fish Pack, Dominic Law Firm. Uh, thank you very much, uh, for this. As you can see from your agenda packet, uh, this is a update on the Forest Lake matter. And there are, uh, uh, a few things we need to talk about. First, the update, it's pretty much summarized in your staff report. However, I would like to touch on just a few additional points for the update as to where we are. Um, as you Ray may remember, August 20th of this year, the commission voted five oh, uh, to deny the assignment of the ground leads from Forest Lake to Jay Hospitality. Excuse me. Uh, the commission members commented on the importance of protecting the city's interest and the need for the last seat to provide financial data requested to properly evaluate the requirements within the ground lease. That's the, that's the essence of what we talked about at the last meeting on this topic, pardon me, for the force voice. September 16th of this year, of the lessee, through his law firm, set the, uh, city a letter, um, disputing the right of first refusal, uh, I'm sorry, right of first refusal expiration. And the lessee at that point provided an amended and restated agreement between Forest Lake and Jay Hospitality for Jay Hospitality's purchase of Forest Lake's interest in, in the lease, it extended the right of first refusal, uh, deadline that the city has the city's right for that septe. After that September 20th, 2024, the city issues its first notice of default to the lessee under the lease. Uh, then on October the 16th, finally, after an extended period in request, the city received a box of documents from the lessee's attorneys, uh, which are a portion of what was requested, um, in, in request to the Lesse and documents that had been asked for by the city's consultant, ZHA, uh, and Robert Zi, uh, since I think November or December of last year. So October, we get a bunch of documents. Robert Zi is here today, so you can have any questions with respect to that issue. Um, and those documents, we can talk about that. Then November seven of this year, 2024, the city staff and, uh, attorneys met with the owners of Forest Lake and their attorneys to discuss all matters related to the requested assignment. 'cause remember, they, uh, forest Lake asked the city commission to approve an assignment of their interest in the lease to J Hospitality. Also talking about the notice of default, the city had sent to Forest Lake, and the parties agreed to extend the right of first refusal, uh, deadline at that, uh, uh, that meeting to December 5th, 2024. So it allows the city op and op continuing opportunity to evaluate the right of first refusal issues with respect to the property, uh, the default and, and, uh, related matters. Um, also important at that meeting, uh, Jay, uh, forest Lake agreed to allow the city to, and its consultants and attorneys to meet with, uh, JA Hospitality, the proposed asee, which was important because we as a city did not want to interfere in the contract between Forest Lake and JA Hospitality. And so that was, that was key. And, um, they, the, uh, forest, forest Lake and its attorneys did agree. And so, following that on November 15, and we advised them, we advised, uh, forest Lake at that meeting, that there were further problems with the property that the city's consultants had found with, with the property, the operations, and the like. And to expect that there would be a second notice of default. Um, the city did send that notice of default on NOV second notice of default on November 15th, 2024, uh, based on the inspections of the consultants that the city brought on to evaluate the property and operations. Then on November 19th, about two weeks ago, the city staff and attorneys met with Jay Hospitality, its team and its attorney to obtain financial information and other information and, um, understanding of what jas abilities were, their qualifications, and, and, uh, anything that we could as a, as attorneys and staff and consultants for the city evaluate, uh, JA hospitality as they are the requested asee. So that brings us, uh, up to effectively today. So that, that's, that's the update. Um, so tonight, really two, two issues. It's a, a sign a question of whether the city commission, uh, should approve the assignment of the, uh, of the lease of Forest Lake's interest in the lease to j Hospitality, or deny that, and a question of the right of first refusal. The city has a right to step in and say, uh, to, to, uh, forest Lake that the city would like to, uh, step into the shoes of, um, Jay Hospitality as a buyer and exercise a right to do that. Uh, we, we think it's important for the city to consider, uh, this, the Jay's hospitality's, uh, the questions of whether it should be approved or denied as an asee, uh, first, and then we can talk about the right of first refusal. Um, so I'm gonna spend a few minutes if with commission's, uh, permission outlining, um, the city attorneys, the city staffs, and the city staff city's consultants, um, evaluation of Ja Hospitality as the potential asee. Um, so what, what we did, and we did this as as promptly as we, we could, um, a lot of this was very compressed timeframe because we didn't know, uh, a lot of things without the experts reports, without being able to talk to Ja and get in, uh, into, uh, uh, find out about Ja hospitality and information that we've been waiting on from Forest Lake. So, but this key is to the assignment. So we reviewed the information that we got from Jay Hospitality, uh, and, uh, the meeting that we had with the CEO of Jay Hospitality, Peter Watske and his team on, on the November 19th meeting about two weeks ago. We also looked at the obligations of, of Ja as stepping into the shoes of Forest Lake under the lease as a potential ASEE and the risks to the city, and the obligations and expectations for the operation and management of the Forest Lake golf course and the facilities, uh, and f found the following. So this is for your, your consideration. Uh, collectively, we determined that we think that Jay hospitality has a lack of experience in golf course management and operation operations. Members of JA hospitality do have experience in the hospitality industry. Um, and JA has owned and operated hotels, but it has no direct experience managing or operating a golf course or maintaining treatment facilities. Um, number two, uh, there's, they have limited famili familiarity with the properties unique requirements. Ja showed limited awareness of the specific conditions and challenges at the Forest Lake golf course and facilities. Ja was unaware of the comprehensive issues this, that were identified by the city's consultants and inspection reports, which require significant investment. Ja was unfamiliar with the storm stormwater reuse system that's integral to the golf course's operation, and have not provided any plan to address the irrigation pond leakage or meet the need for reclaimed water, which is essential to the operation of the golf course of at least 450,000 gallons a day, as a minimum if the city cannot supply that. Um, Jay had no familiar familiarity with the wastewater permit and the requirements associated with that as part of, uh, this lease operation, uh, associated with that permit, Jay was unaware of where the treatment water that it go flows into the pond on the property comes from, which is from the city of Winter Garden, and the, the that's going to end. So, so the, the question posed to Ja was, uh, one, they didn't know that. And two, when that happens, what are they, what are they gonna do? And they have no, they have no backup plan. There's no backup plan by them. Uh, clearly Jay's due diligence had failed to identify the majority of serious issues, uh, that were uncovered by the city and its consultants during the city's inspections on the course, which of course, raised concerns about Jay's attention to detail and its level of expertise in managing and operating a golf course. Uh, third major point in inadequate financial planning for the required improvements, Ja proposes reinvesting one to two potentially $2 million into the property. Uh, while the city's consultants estimate resolving the existing issues could cost between 10.6 and $14.8 million. Mr. Wasco said that Jay would not be able to take on and handle this added expense. And it does not appear that Jay is prepared or is able to meet the obligations under the ground lease. Um, the current lessee Forest Lake is in default under the ground lease, although they have disputed that. And we, I got a letter this afternoon at about 3 0 3 from, uh, from Forest Lake's attorney, uh, responding to the second, uh, notice of default. But, uh, for tonight's purposes, I'm not sure that's, that's, uh, key. Um, but the property is not in compliance clearly with the required operational and maintenance standards. As part of any approved assignment, the ASEE would be obligated. So Ja step into the shoes of Forest Lake would be obligated to bring the property into compliance that would necessitate necessitate substantial financial investment upfront. Mr. Waske stated that Jay is not willing to bear those costs citing an intent to sell the property for profit within seven years. And further underscoring concerns about long-term commitment to the properties improvement and operational success. Next significant point. Uh, lack of experience collaborating with Miss Municipal landlords. Jay has not previously operated a, a property where a city acts as a landlord or a lessor, or managing a, uh, involvement in managing a public private partnership, which requires navigating governmental processes. And so they, they lack that experience in dealing with governments. Uh, next major point, uncertainty in strategic planning and execution. Ja, um, presented to your staff and attorneys and consultants. Its intended acquisition of this property as a first step in a broader plan to develop 30 to 40 golf courses. Um, with this being the first initial one, um, however, Jay's proposal demonstrates a lack of detailed preparation, insufficient understanding of the complexities involved in managing and operating a golf course. Jay's pursuit of numerous golf properties at the same time, and I'll talk about that in just a minute, um, uh, would dilute Jay's ability to carry out needed work on the Forest Lake golf course. Jay's plans to address the issues with the golf, with the Forest Lake golf courses is more conceptual, um, than detailed is insufficient, given the scale and complexity of the challenges. And I'll talk about that in just a little more detail in a second. Jay told the city that Jay plans to have 15 golf courses operating in seven years. That plan raises concern, which, uh, plan did the conceptual plan, did not provide meaningful details, uh, for the Forest Lake Golf Club, uh, and they will not have the resources to properly address the pressing deficiencies at the club. Next major point, there was no comprehensive operational plan or cashflow projections. They've not provided an operational plan. Were cashflow projections necessary for evaluating the viability of Jay's proposal? Um, next major point, small. It's a small investment company. Jay admits it's a small family investment entity, which desires to now venture into golf, whereas the city needs a competent, experienced golf course operator, at least in the staff and staff's position. So, so I understand it's an investment. This is just an one of other investments that Jay hospitality carries out. Uh, next pager point, tangential golf course experience. We talked about that. Um, uh, next one was long-term community commitment. Um, Mr. Watkin indicated that Jay's plan for Forest Lake involves signing the ground lease after seven years. Uh, our understanding, at least the staff's position, is the city seeks tenacity with a long-term commitment to the golf course, and the community has frequent changes, disrupt the continuity, and require repeated burdensome vetting processes. Next major point out, outsourcing the management. Ja does not plan to directly manage the course raising concerns about Jay's accountability and appearance to the lease terms. Um, they've not retained a third party management company for the golf course. They mentioned one that they did have not retained one, and the city is unable to evaluate the suitability of any potential third party management companies that, that Jay may or may not, uh, bring in next major point, unwillingness to share financial, uh, data before the assignment approval. Jay's reluctance to share financial information until after assignment approval. Underscore Jay's familiarity, unfamiliarity with the municipal record requirements and prevents the city from understanding Jay's financial ability to become a USC plans for the future. Uh, it's noted, I just noted, uh, plans to own 30 to 40 golf courses in the future. Multiple properties now under contract, uh, may not receive the intention. We need lack of comprehensive business plan. Jay has not submitted a business plan outlining short and long-term strategies, goals, uh, for revenue generation, operational efficiency, or marketing. Uh, they've not pro provided a one, three or five year proforma financial statements with revenue projections or a capital investment plan. Jay failed to submit cash flow projections segmented by business areas, which are critical for understanding operational and management viability and funding plans. There's no evidence of investor commitment. So we said, where's your money gonna come from? We said, they said, uh, that they, um, they expected to have 15 to 20 local limited partner investors along with debt to raise the eight to $9 million that JA estimates would be needed for its purchase and for its, uh, proposed, not, I, I guess they said the $7 million for purchasing the, the interest that, uh, forest Lake's interest in the lease and one potentially $2 million to invest in new things on the course, but not in dealing with the, uh, a deferred maintenance issues the city's consultants have identified in the 10 to $15 million range. Um, so they, they had no, uh, commitment letters from investors. Um, and they not supplied letters of credit from financial institutions to demonstrate access to funding if needed. Uh, no, no tax returns, no bank bank statements from good lag partners or ja, uh, gaps with gaps in assessing our ability as a city staff to evaluate the financial standing net worth and liquidity. They cannot commit to a par 72 course, which is what the property is. They wanna change that it appears. Maybe that's a concept. They're not sure where they want to go with that. Um, and given the, these concerns that I've just outlined, including without limitation, the lack of requisite experience, the resources, the understanding of the property's issues, uh, approving the lease assignment at this time would pose significant risk to the city, including potential operational and management failures, unresolved compliance issues, and financial instability. That's what, uh, your staff, attorneys and consultants have concluded. Uh, if you have any questions about the staff, uh, the consultants reports, uh, Robert UI is here, uh, to talk about those. But the, the primary issue, I think at this point is what the staff and, and the experts by the way, have, have looked at these issues and understand that what, what's needed for the golf course. So there are golf course experts that Mr. Uzi has brought on for the city. So the question posed to the city at this point is whether to approve the, uh, assignment, the request for the assignment, or to deny the request for the assignment. Let him some up. Let him all up here now Up here. Alright, commissioners comments. I'd like to hear him other Side. Thank you. I would like to hear that. I asked him first. He said I, I would like to hear. Okay. The other side I would like to hear. Oh, I am, but I asked him, he said, let the commissioners have first chance. So I'll, I, I'll open the public hearing for the, the lawyer wants 10 minutes, he said. So you want to come on up? Sure. Good evening, Logan Opal, 2 1 5 North Ola Drive. Um, thanks for letting us speak today. Um, I, I wanna start, you've been given a timeline. There's some dispute as to some of the details of it, but let's just say by and large, the major events, you know, track. Um, we, we have been able to meet with the city. Finally, um, you know, i, I reference was made and before you that, uh, this process was going on for a long time, not just since June, when, when the city was first informed of, of this purchase and sale agreement. This, this notice of assignment for the terms of the ground lease. But for years, right? I mean, we've had workshops over this. There's been previous inspections, I think two, maybe, maybe more appraisals conducted by the city, some conducted by Forest Lake itself. Um, and that was of course, regarding the city potentially taking on, uh, the remainder of our ground lease, taking it back. Um, and so, you know, you know, when we talk about information and how that's flowing, the documentation, I know we had discussed that at, at length. Uh, but, but much information has been provided. I think all the dispute prior was, uh, what that should look like. So a bit of a chicken in the egg, uh, as a demand for documentation. We had a request for a meeting when those two things finally met. Documentation kept rolling. Uh, there was a lot of points brought up by Kurt just then. Um, I will say since our meeting with the city, uh, we have had very limited to no interaction with the city. Uh, we were unaware of the list that was provided just now. We were not provided a courtesy copy. Um, I'm not sure that our proposed as Andee has. Um, and there's items in there that I think half of which we, we made a, a, a reference, a reasonable reference to the short timeframe of, of one, them providing Jay hospitality, providing documents, um, as well as conversations that could have ensued between them. Um, but I will say this, you know, Robert Etsy's, group ZHA, you know, I, I, we've briefly met, I I I find him, you know, very nice and professional and, and, and my client does as well. Uh, there have been, uh, again, a lot of reports that have taken place over the years regarding Forest Lake and, uh, to, to hear that, uh, it's called an investigation in the agenda, uh, that, that, that was conveyed in that meeting. Um, and a speculative analysis over what Forest Lake's gonna do with some of the water that flows through the pond causes me some concerns, uh, uh, about the, uh, you know, positive about the, about the efficiency of that meeting and the productivity of that meeting. Um, so just to simplify it and, and put it back into scope, right? 'cause this is about the ground lease that we have with the city. And I, I think if, if we can erase Eve the recent, uh, disagreements we've had, I, I I think everyone in here can agree it's been a very successful relationship with the city. And, and we have a, a ground lease which affords us the right, uh, to assign our lease. And we have a ground lease, which affords the city the right to exercise a right of first refusal, uh, or alternatively, uh, approve the assignment. And so that's what we're here for today. Uh, reference was made to a default. We, we, of course, flatly deny those allegations. Um, all of previous inspections and report that were conducted, I think of important note made, made no comment to some of the issues that were raised by the city. Uh, so I, I, I agree with Kurt. I think that's something, you know, for another day, certainly we're, we're going to remain committed to working with the city to, to come up with a resolution to that, uh, which, which we've discussed. Um, but, but I want to make one more important point in conclusion, Mr. Mr. Mayor, because we're, we're talking about the ground lease. And this is just simply because I, I hadn't done this in past meetings, and I just think it's important to, here, I'm just reading from the ground lease, just a few sentences, um, as we think through this process, uh, this is 6.1 B, and we, we've referenced it a a lot. So, and this is upon, upon receipt of a request from Leslie. So that's Forest Lake for approval of an assignment of this lease. And it's got some stuff in the middle here, okay? Including for purposes of this section 6.1 B, only a sublease of substantially the entire premises for substantially the entire term of the lease. But it's saying upon, upon receipt of a request from Forest Lake for approval and assignment, I'm gonna keep reading other than in connection with an assignment or other transfer in lieu of foreclosure, less so shall have 60 days in which to exercise a right of first refusal by agreeing and writing to acquire lessee's, leasehold interests created here under, under the same terms and conditions as proposed by such perspec perspective asee. And so I think where we were previously was here's this purchase and sale agreement. And the city has 60 days to decide whether they want to ask Kurt, put it step into the shoes of Jay hospitality. Now it goes on to talk about, uh, looking into their experience, looking into their financial wellbeing. Um, understand that's been looked into. And, uh, we, we remain committed to the fact that Jay Hospitality, uh, meets those items. And I, I think, uh, they would be willing to continue conversations to have that. But, but when, when they hear things, uh, speculative and they are, they are shown, uh, inspections that had never before been done, that had on, on a property that had never before raised any issues, I've always paid rent on time and have always had a successful relationship with the city, uh, I can appreciate the fact that they take pause in that. So, um, not withstanding, I I I, I think all of this request is grounded in the ground lease, okay? And the rights that the city has and the rights that Forest Lake has, and I think consideration is owed, uh, to Ja hospitality as meeting those standards. And if not, the city's opportunity to exercise its right of first refusal, um, under the terms that were presented. Um, and I'm happy to answer any specific questions I have, uh, Kurt, and, uh, excuse me, I have, uh, the principles of Forest Lake. Uh, so we have Ken and George. Uh, this has been conveyed in previous correspondence. These two gentlemen have had a combined 98 years experience of designing and building golf course. That's a whole lot of experience. And, and some of the costs that you heard today, uh, are incredibly inflated. Uh, Kenny just informed me that he had just completed designing and building a golf course, uh, that was on, starting out with land that was for inferiority for is like for $9 million. So the notion that we need to put $12 million into a very successful golf course, uh, we, we certainly take exception with. Um, and those, those include speculative items. Like, you gotta replace the roof. Well, it's got plenty of life. You gotta replace the entire irrigation system. Well, that's not true. It's in good working condition. You gotta replace your personal property, you gotta replace your equipment. You gotta, you gotta fix the stucco cracks. Now we have a robust ongoing maintenance program, and all of those items, uh, are, are under consideration. Certain improvements are being done now, many of which were subject to, uh, the city's co latest correspondence with us. But as we move forward to these three items, and I've tried my best to keep them in the three separate buckets, uh, I, I think it's, it's very important to note that this is a successful golf course operation. And we know that because we have an active contract for $7 million for it after, as an as is bonafide third party contract who's already conducted inspections of the property. And so I, I, uh, respectfully request do you keep all those things into consideration as well. And I'm happy to answer any specific questions of the commission. Thank you for your time, Commissioners. Before I've called up the other, you want to talk to the, anybody? I asked anybody had any comments that the gentleman? Not yet. Not yet. Not, not, not yet. Alright. Okay. Thank you. Alright, uh, first we have, uh, Kenny Azel. I'm going to defer to George first if that's okay. Mayor, Good afternoon. I'm George Clifton from deland, Florida. Uh, one of the owners and managers of golf, uh, forest Lake Golf course. Uh, we, Kenny and I had a conversation. I was, it's an hour drive to get to the golf course. I have a lot of thinking time to do there and back. And this being the Christmas season, I was going back thinking about, uh, do you remember the movie? It's A Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart. And he, he had some business problems and wished he had never been born. Angel came and gave him his wish and it made me think about the golf course. And what if Forest Lake was never born? What if Kenny took a different way home that day? Never saw the sign on the property that said City of Oco, future reused, uh, disposal site. So he never had the idea to put the golf course out there. The city had budgeted $3.25 million to, to build this site. So they spent the money. So you got 200 plus acres of rectangles out there, retention ponds. You got that. Now you gotta maintain it. This is 32 years ago. So you, you figure if you're gonna have one or two guys, just figure one person. So you got, uh, to maintain that site, you need a tractor, you're gonna need a bat wing, bush hog mower, probably a z turn mower to mower around the maintenance building that you're gonna have to build. You're gonna have a restroom and office for this gentleman. You've got city benefits, you gotta pay all that. The phone, the power, the maintenance on the equipment. So you go through say, a hundred thousand dollars a year, conservative, conservatively. So then, um, you'd look at $3.25 million. It just 5% interest. You're, you're looking at 167,000 plus dollars a year along with our lease. You're over $200,000 a year with this maintenance situation. You've got with the ribs. You're over $300,000 a year and you've got, you don't have a golf course. Now you've got this blemish property. I'm not even thinking about the tax implications on the surrounding properties that you're able to garnish. So this is seed money that you got. You're getting over $300,000 a year. So the lease agreements is not that bad. And Rusty was there at the time, and I think y'all made a great decision. You've got a beautiful golf course now. It's helped the city. You've got, uh, this shoot it, the seed might of the 3.25 million. You don't even know if this building would be here now. So I just want you to think about where you came from and, uh, thank you for your time. I will make one quick comment. I will tell you that Lester Davs, Verne Combs and myself thought about the golf course back when we got the land. That was one of the things we were going to do with the land. Then we went out and started looking for the people to build the golf course, George. So it wasn't Ken deciding about the golf course, it was Lester Das Verne Combs and myself. I'll let Kenny dispute That. Well, whatever. We can talk, call him out about it. I can tell you that. Never heard anything else but what Lester said or Vern said. And we traveled with Jim Beach to all the different areas, even went up to one of yours. That, to Tomoka or to, what was it? Tomoka up on, uh, Orman Beach. Oh, yeah. River Bend. A long time ago. Yeah, that's A good point. Because, uh, they had a, they had a lease agreement there that we, we were partners with 'em. Yeah. And we thought they had given up too much. Yeah. And now they're dog fennel. That course is closed now because they didn't have the reserve to do what they needed to do. Yeah. To keep the course going. But case in point is we're having to build a new golf hole and that's gonna be in the six figures. Yeah. Most people couldn't do that. That, Yeah. Alright. Ken Zel, Uh, Kenny Zel. I used to live in Apopka and now live up at the Villages. Um, I just wanted to say that, um, we've had a wonderful relationship with the city of Ocoee. Um, you know, it, uh, we, we spent, uh, two years trying to put everything together. Rest of, you know, it was a difficult time back in 91, 92, 93. We finally got everything going. We have plenty of our family and our friends that are here that put up money. We're just a small little group. Um, we've had the opportunity to build over 80, uh, plus golf courses, 18 hole equivalent golf courses in our 35 years that we've been doing this. Um, Koa was, uh, a pass by at the time and he, you may have been right, I was not familiar, but I did stop in and talk to the city manager at the time, Ella Shapiro. And he said, I have one, nothing to do with the golf course. We would like for somebody to take and come in. So my background was in distress management and, and building golf courses, designing 'em. And so we were afforded the opportunity to take and put this deal together, won the RFP. And we've been very, very happy for the whole time that we've been here. Um, and so win-win, it was a win-win from the start. And I would just like to say that I hate to see us right today. Create a lose lose. And that's the way it looks to me like we're going. We love, we love what we've taken and produced. Um, we keep improving it day by day. We've got a great golf course superintendent. We've got a great golf professional. We have wonderful staff. Anybody that knows in the industry today, it's hard finding good people and keeping 'em. We have this re we've had a wonderful staff that has been there. My wife runs the books. George is there almost every day. I do most of the marketing. We, we've been very successful. And we came in in 19, in 2018 and presented this the first time we had a thing in 2020 covid hit. We just kind of, everybody went off their separate ways. Covid came about. Golf became a very much more popular sport. It was an activity that everybody could have taken joy outside. And they did. Our revenues went up. Our rounds have gone up. They've continued to go up our golf courses in immaculate. You can't say it's immaculate, but I can tell you it's enjoyed by over 453 of your OCO residents and over 620 other associate members that we have. I've read through all these reports and I know my time is up, but you know, we don't have 60,000 people coming and playing golf at Forest Lake, making the drive. I meant, and what we've done, in my opinion, for the city with all the, uh, people that have taken and come in next to us, around us, we negotiated in good faith with you guys on the 4 29, the West Orange Trail, the expansion of Clair Ocoee Road. We've been a good neighbor. We've watched over your property a as if it was ours or more so. And, um, you know, we, we just want to take and have a fair deal with somebody and we don't feel like we're being fairly treated at this point. Alright. Mr com ber you want to talk? Okay. All right. I'm gonna close the public hearing and bring it back up to the dice. All right, commissioners. Go ahead. Commissioner Oliver, you said you had something you wanted to say. I, I'm calling on you. I I'm still writing some notes down. Go ahead. I don't know. Do you wanna go first? What's the question? Are We, uh, I mean, I think, I think it's pretty, uh, cut and dry. Frankly. Listen to all sides. I'm a no, I I beyond that, I, I don't understand. I'm not a lawyer, but, um, I don't know how you assign a lease that you're in default of. And I didn't hear one tangible argument, one fact from your attorney. Frankly, I, I can't tell whether he's representing you or Ja. Is there somebody from JA here? Is there I Represen Forest Lake Commissioner. Is there somebody from JA here? Yeah, it's come to the podium. You can't talk from, you can't Talk. You repeated what you repeated the first time, which I don't understand, which is why you're representing that JA is capable and financially viable to, you're not responding to his comments about the findings of Ja but you're disputing them. So do you have information that hasn't been provided? 'cause we've been down that track already. Yep. I am Forrest Lake's attorney. Okay. My understanding is that your city attorney met with Ja Hospitality once. That was the only correspondence they've had. Okay. Um, so Once isn't enough to ask a man if he has $10 million of financing. Well, it sounds like there was a whole lot of items in there that could have been helpful. Um, outside of one meeting. Uh, keep in mind, this has been on the radar of the city for five months. And, um, and you know, there there's been plenty of opportunity to meet and, uh, it hasn't occurred until one time. And, and that's when that exhaustive list of things I didn't even heard of before. I, I'll ask you again. I I don't understand your point. I'm being honest and sincere with you. What is your point that they only met one time? Why isn't that enough to ask a man? Do you have financing? The answer is no, we don't have financing. Why isn't that not Did did we hear that today, commissioner? He said he asked if they had capital for the improvements. Okay. Well they, they can't consummate the sale of our contract without them. So, so they have, they have representations in that agreement that they, that they do. Um, I was not a party to, forest Lake was not a party to that meeting. As Kurt said, we wanted them to meet and have that discussion. So again, I'll ask the same question I asked the first time. If you're not representing Ja, why are you arguing or disputing a right of Ja to have more than one meeting to address his and the staff's recommendation that they don't have the finance. I, I want to be very clear. I represent Forest Lake. I got it. And Forest Lake has a purchase and sale agreement for the assignment of their lease to Jay Hospitality. So certainly we have a vested interest for that meeting to go successful. I am, I do not represent Jay Hospitality. I can't provide you their confidential or financial information for Jay Hospitality. But I can offer, uh, as is I think is reasonable that that continued meetings or ongoing conversation over the course of these past five months may have armed you commissioner with the information you need to make the, the decision today. Good. Okay. Have you, isn't there a dispute that you also haven't provided your own financial information? Aren't we still missing financial information that you're unwilling to provide? We, we have provided close to 2000 pages of documents of which includes financial information commissioner. Okay. Have we received, who do I ask this question? At the last meeting, you were requesting financial information that was not provided, has all the information requested. Not all, but a lot, uh, commissioner and, uh, our consultant, Robert Uzi, has received that and evaluated. But the question to for tonight is not about Forest Lake. It, you know, Ken and George and, and, uh, their counsel have talked about their condition. That's not the question. The question is, right now for the commission, do you approve the assignment that's been requested to Jay Hospitality? So it's about really Jay Hospitality. Exactly. And that's what I don't understand. Sure. Commissioner, I, I Agree with why their, why their or their attorney isn't here and why you are and why you're speaking or defending their Interest. Well com commissioner, I'm only here on behalf of Forest Lake and, and I want to be very clear, I have, I have received zero correspondence from the city following that meeting. So I'm hearing a lot of this for the first time. I have not been given a copy of that to respond to. And if I was provided a copy, I would send it to Ja Hospitality's counsel to respond to. But I agree with something Kurt, Kurt just said because it's, it's, it's clear it's on the agenda. That's what we're here for. The city has has two items for consideration. It's, it's, uh, approval of the assignment or a, uh, a, a, um, a motion to move forward with the right of first refusal. Okay. Mayor, commissioner one, one other point. Um, I don't think he answered the, the, uh, I was talking to, to, uh, our folks here that are on the team. We did provide Jay a hospitality with a copy of the second notice of default. Presumably they already had the first items of default and invited them to provide us any response that they may have to, that we've not received any, any, uh, follow up from Jay Hospitality since that meeting. So they, they, they did not indicate one way or the other, whether they were aware of that second notice of default when we gave it to him that had already been given to Forest Lake. So, so, um, I can't tell you, uh, we, we didn't call J Hospitality up after the meeting say, by the way, are you gonna give us any more information? How are you gonna deal with this? What about these, these points? They told us what they told us. They gave us what they gave us. And we've used that and gotten nothing beyond what we got at that meeting. And, and, and before that meeting, even though they had the opportunity to provide it, Do they know that we're being asked to approve them as an iee and were they given that, uh, We, it's, it's on the notice. We did not send specific notice. I, I presume, uh, uh, forest Lake and Jay are communicating and they knew about it, but it's up to them to, and, and, and, uh, forest Lake, it's their deal. And we're in it as the city, as the owner less or to either approve or deny the assignment, and then we can talk about the RRFR. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um, Kurt, I'm gonna probably focus on this. Yes, ma'am. Um, you know, I go back to the lease that we looked at months and months ago. Mm-Hmm. And there was some things in there. I didn't like that. You mean the purchase and sale agreement? The first one? Yes. Yes. Okay. So starting from that point then moving forward, there's, do you know, you have this saying, the fear of the unknown, and there's a lot of unknown here. And this is the concerns I have. There's no business plan. There's, they won't provide their financials till after they don't know anything about the ground lease. And please correct me if I'm misstating from what you had Told, I think they know about the ground lease. I think they don't know much about the, some of the, well, the, the defects and defaults that, that we found permit The particulars that correct regard. And they, I would think they would know that if they were, That's what we thought too, That, you know, if to get an assignment, um, they, this question that I had, they plan to sell the property in seven years. Well, they can't sell something that we own. They Plan, sell, Sell a golf course off. And They, they could do just what, what Forest Lake's trying to do is assign the lease and sell their interest, get it making more money and, and flip it. Well, That's what, you know, when you said this, I, I wrote this and I thought, how are they gonna sell something that belongs to the residents of the city of Ocoee? Um, what stands in my mind a lot is that they plan to open 30 and 40 golf courses. This is the first, but they're not giving us any information. And they're planning, they have these grandiose plans that they're pre presenting to you, but they haven't even started the first one. And then when you don't come into a business plan, I can hear my husband asking my daughter for a business plan when she was, you know, 15 years old, how are you going to plan something? But we're doing much bigger here, and there's no, I would think you'd have to have a business plan and financials to back that business plan up. Um, and I mean, I'm talking something in my own family, but then you're looking at something much larger. And this, I don't know. I'm just not comfortable and, and allowing my resident's property to be given assignment very, to me, it's very casual. This is not firmed up. I would not, I would want more information. Um, there's just too many negatives here. Understand. Alright. Commissioner Ner is Ja hospitality aware that this meeting is taking place tonight? I, I spoke with, uh, the Council for Jay Hospitality yesterday. Um, that was our first correspondence since the meeting with the city. Uh, along with what Kurt said, he did say that the second default letter, which we again, flatly deny the allegations therein were provided to him. Uh, there was the speculative information about the lack of water that would go into the pond. And quite frankly, to Commissioner Wilson's point, um, he, he conveyed to me voluntarily, did you know that, that perhaps, uh, we need to, uh, work with the city on, um, on, on on those items. Uh, so, uh, so again, I, I think when we're talking about information that they may or may not have conveyed, um, that's, that happened, uh, after this, this default. So I, I can't speak to Ja hospitality. Um, but, but to answer your question squarely, uh, he was, uh, my understanding is they were made aware about it through our conversation yesterday. Uh, aware of this meeting. Yes. I would assume that they would be, being that there are principle in this multi-million dollar deal. What I don't understand is, is are they so unconcerned that, uh, they're going to be successful in this, that they didn't even need to have representation here at this meeting to discuss some of these issues. I think Mr. Artman was pretty clear as far as, you know, the background checks that went on, and I understand your point of view and Forrest Lake's point of view and everything, but you've, you've told me nothing to dispute any of those claims as far as their viability, their solu solu ability, uh, their management ability, nothing. Uh, I'm sorry, but, uh, I think that's a poor showing on their part. You know, forest Lake is here because they have an interest in this, so do they, uh, but they, they apparently couldn't even take the time to come here and talk to us tonight about it. Okay. One of the first questions I had as I'm listening to the conversation was, uh, I would like to hear from, uh, Jay Hospitality. Uh, actually, when we first started the conversation or discussion, that was one of the first things I, I read across the top of my paper. I want to hear from Jay Hospitality, as we've heard from Forest Lake, and we understand your position. Um, so that was one of my first questions I had. The next question I have is for the attorney. Yes, sir. Would this consider, could this cons be considered a quasi-judicial hearing right now? No, this is a contract matter. This is, uh, a contract. Okay. Yes, but not, okay, perfect. It seems to me that Ja, ja uh, hospitality is derelict in their responsibility to this, this whole discussion. They're not here. Um, I, I, I tend to agree with the other commissioners that, um, they are a principle in this, again, this multimillion dollar deal. And they have failed to show, which shows me that there, there's a gross neglect on their part to even consider this, uh, to, to be serious about, about what we're trying to consider here. Um, there are several issues that we're dealing with here when it comes to j Hospitality, forest Lake and the city. We, we, we have issues of, for one, there was a, a prompted conversation about this assignment, or possible assignment probably long before 2018. That was a conversation that was had. Where are we going with this golf course? What's going to happen with this golf course? That's, that's neither here nor there. At this point. There was also a, um, right of first refusal that the city is involved in, according to the lease agreement that we have right now. There's a wastewater management violation that we're dealing with as well. There's a, a executed, there was an executed agreement that was presented to the city by Forest Lake and, uh, j Hospitality. How can you execute a agreement without, without giving us our first right of refusal to even determine if this is a true valuation? So that Agreement was conditioned on your Rights. Okay. Because I was reading that it said it was executed, It, it was executed. It could not, it it could not be closed. Uh, it was subject to the right of first refusal condition. Correct. We couldn't ratify it at all because we had not exercised our right of refusal. So we also, uh, that's Correct. I couldn't close with if, unless you exercise your right of fir if you exercise right. Of first few. That's correct. Commissioner. Correct. So, so we also have, um, a lease that we're looking at valuation of, of, of this particular business that, that run our golf course. There seemed to be some, some, some, um, I'm not, for lack of a better term, let's say misunderstandings or, or let's say different of opinions when it comes to valuations and, and valuations. I mean, we, it could be as simple or as complex as we needed to be, but just getting down to brass tax valuation should simply been the sales price, um, divided by the lease, oh, I'm sorry, but divided by the, uh, uh, the sales could have gave us at least a base value. And we can't seem to come to those terms in this, in the, in the whole issue here. There's, there's a lot of issues that we're dealing with here. And the fact that Jay hospitality is not here is it just really, uh, perplexes me. And finally we have, um, with these different, uh, opinions as to, uh, how we evaluate this versus how, how we look at an for the city concern. We have a, a fiduciary duty to the citizens of Ocoee to make sure that if we were to agree upon a company taking on that assignment, that that company or that organization will, will actually sign a agreement with us long term. We, we wanna establish relationships. The relationship, the, the, the, the relationship that we have with, with, with Ken and George right now has been a long-term relationship. It wasn't that they came in and said, we're going to, uh, uh, buy into a lease here and then we're gonna just sell it off. You got, they've been around for, for a while. So 25 years they've been around. So that's been a relationship. And now I'm hearing things about one company coming in to possibly, uh, create a cash cow, sell it off, and, and who knows what we're gonna get. And now we are held accountable to the citizens and say, now we have a subpar golf course because we sold in to a company that came in and want to, uh, turn and send into a cash cow and then move on to someone else that may create a subpar, uh, playing conditions on our golf course. So, with that being said, I just cannot in good conscious, uh, agree with, with anything until there's something solid on the table. A a buyer that's coming to the table with a, a true valuation that we can all agree upon, even if we have to go to arbitration, if we have to go to an arbitrator, take it to an arbitrator to say, Hey, this is what it's truly worth based on what, based on the information that we have. So with that being said, I just cannot, uh, agree with, uh, um, this, this, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, assignment at this point. Just can't. Well, commissioner, I appreciate your thoughts. Too many moving parts and too many unknowns. Yeah. I appreciate your thoughts. And I, I certainly, certainly echo and, and agree to, to the long term successful relationship of Forest Lake in the city. And, you know, although I wasn't privy to this meeting again, that, that there's a gap in my understanding of, of what transpired with Jay Hospitality, uh, your, your point's well taken about, uh, forest Lake's healthy relationship with the city and, and certainly what we're focused on. So thank you for your thoughts. The, um, the meeting with the, um, j Hospitality, I was attended because I was the mayor and I was involved in it. They, we tried to, they never would've just, uh, adhered to having a meeting before and they had to finally call the lawyers and talk to their lawyers to get 'em to agree to come to the meeting. So that's how we got about that was they finally give permission. They'd come talk, talk. But I will tell you, sitting and listening to the gentleman, they have no interest in what they've done. It's about what they want to do to turn the money and turn the car golf cart golf course and move on. Again, that was the whole sitting there. When, when, when he was hit with some of the stuff, he just sink in a chair. All he was wanting to do is change the golf driving range around to a moneymaker with lights and change the order, and then change some of the golf holes around to where he could make it a par 70, not a par 72. But that was some of the things. And first of all, they never turned in, we never got one. I owed them from them of the, of the money part financials they put in to buy the golf course and pay them 7 million bucks, but not one I owed them of what they were gonna do, or not. The, not even their finances. They tell us what they could do. And so that's where it all come to. And we do have a choice. It's our land. We have a lease with 'em over the last 30, I guess it's 30 years now. I think it's 30 years. You're up to 33. Mayor, I was there the day we dug the dirt with 'em. I know exactly how long it's been, but I'll tell you that there is problems that has to be taken care of, but this company is not the one that do it. Honestly. They're not. And you could tell it with that gentleman that day talking to him. They, it's family, which is nothing wrong with the family part. And the other guys, he's trying to form 15 guys to do that, but they're gonna pay $7 million out, but they're not gonna spend any money to fix the place. There is problems in some of the buildings and stuff like that, whether it be 10 million, 12 million or 15 million there, there's problems that has to be addressed. It's not the millions mayor, I'll tell you that, But Yes. Hey, listen, I can tell you the cost of construction now. It, it is a little more than what we think it is, but I'm just telling you, these guys are not the ones, and that's the whole point. We're not, we're talking about Jay Hospitality, not against them, but against Jay Hospitality. So that's the point. So that, that's, that's the whole thing. Okay. Alright. So we, we're going to have to make a decision. So we're, we've, we've, each one of us has made our talk, so now we get to make, bring it up to the vote. Thanks. You got anything else? No, mayor. Yeah, you, you're right. It's appropriate time for a motion, uh, to approve or deny the assignment. Alright, Mayor, if I'm just one comment. Um, the commissioner you brought up that we're in violation of something. We are not aware of anything that we're in violation of. We've, we have, we have not been notified of anything, uh, relative to the wastewater. You brought that up. I have no idea what you're talking about. We, we are, uh, sent the water, um, and we distribute it and we've done a very good job of that. We were supposed to have take and put out 1.25 million initially. Yeah. And we've dropped. I'm just saying, you Know, I I, I gotta stop you. I didn't prove to come up there. And we're not talking about you tonight. Remember what we just said? We're talking No, But it was brought up to beer, not in violation of something. I just wanna make sure that everybody knows we are not in violation. We, I mean, we've not received anything from the wastewater Tree. You gotta sit down. Okay. All act to us. All right. We need a motion. I'll make this, uh, Do you need to read off? Just, I'll make a motion to deny the assignment to JA Hospitality. And, um, I, I have one question, if I may to clarify. Um, the last time we did this, we made the motion without prejudice. Based on the due diligence that you provided. Is, is that appropriate or what would you advise? You could do it just straight without, um, without adding, with or without prejudice. Just a denial is fine. If you wanna say with prejudice, that's fine. I, I'm not sure it's that significant, frankly. Well, I think the last time it wasn't qualified, and I think this time it is okay With prejudice Then I would say with prejudice. Alright. I had a motion from Commissioner Kennedy here a second. I'd like to second that motion also. Um, just a brief comment about, uh, compliance, uh, the document stated that we have related, uh, permit compliance issues. So I've heard the word out of compliance. Yeah. So again, um, every document I've received have actually alluded to the word of compliance and being out of compliance as it pertains to, uh, the, uh, water permit or the actual, uh, wastewater permit. Alright. Alright. Motion seconded by commissioner, uh, Oliver, any more comments from commissioners? The only, The only aspect we're looking at tonight is the Assignment. That's what we just said. I know. I just clarified nothing Else. Yeah. That, that's on the table. I would like to address the right of first refusal after the commission votes. Alright, we No more comments. Let's vote. Motion carries you Unanim. Uh, mayor Commissioners. Uh, with respect to the right of First refusal, I think it probably based on the denial of the assignment is moot the right of first refusal. Uh, but if it is not moot for some legal reason, um, we believe that the right of first refusal, um, is, is really not effective because it's, as I think Commissioner Oliver said, it's a fully executed contract. I mean, the PSA is, it's not a proper offer by Ja, uh, to Forest Lake that the city could, uh, elect to accept to the terms and conditions of that contract that was in the request for assignment cannot be met. Three, the less he is in default of the lease. Number four terms and conditions, if exercised by the city of that, what they claim would be the right of first refusal, which I'm not sure exactly what it would be, are not the same terms and conditions as offered by Jay Hospitality. There's no need to act on that, I think at this point, because I think it's moot with the denial. But just to put, I mean, it's a hanging question out there and the lease is a little unclear about how you deal with that Right. Of first refusal. But that's, that's our belief about the right of first refusal. So it's really a non-issue for tonight at this point. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Alright, that's, um, time for comments from the commissioners. All right. Uh, commissioner Ner? No, I have no comments. Commissioner Wilson, sir, I always have something to say, don't I? Yep. Um, the four-Way stop at Montgomery and Orlando Avenue is now an operation. Please be mindful there's enough signs out there, there's barricades, but I've already had my first person tell me that someone just sailed through it this morning at six 15 without stopping. So, um, we don't want an accident. Please be careful there. I know that the one on Adair has been in operation for a few months now, and so I haven't heard much, should I say, problems with that. So I'm kind of hoping that we'll move along with Montgomery and Orlando Avenue without any issues. Um, please mark your calendar for December 14th for the Jolly Jamboree, which will be happening outside, right here on Blueford in front of City Hall from three to eight fun activities. Please come down and join us. Um, I guess we have never congratulated Mr. Moyer. Mr. Moyer, you're the super, you have won the election regarding the supervisor of soil and water. Yes, we have. We have to call him supervisor, I guess after January, because that's when he is, he was on the, he was on the ballot and, and he won. So, congratulations. Um, you're welcome. Um, and Craig, if I can just ask you just to announce there's a meeting coming up that, if you don't mind. Not at all. Commissioner. Um, on Tuesday, December 10th, we will be holding information sessions here in the chambers regarding staff's denial of two development applications. One which was from a developer McCoy Gateway, LLC, for a project submitted under the live local act, which included 22 apartment buildings supplying 542 units of multifamily apartments. Um, and the other, um, is also part of the same, um, development. And it was for a 130 dwelling unit multifamily apartment complex. Um, and, and the general, general area is the southwest corner of Clark and White Road. And so we are under notice for request for relief under the Florida Land Use and Environmental Dispute Resolution Act, or also known as Flora. And so these information sessions are to, uh, educate the public on what the process is for, for these, uh, decisions and what the fluter process is about. And, um, I don't know if the attorney wants to add anything to it, but let me reiterate. It's Tuesday, December 10th here in the chambers, and we're gonna have three sessions from three 30 to 4:30 PM from five 30 to 6:30 PM and from seven 30 to 8:30 PM Um, and again, I wanna reiterate this is, and because there's a lot of misinformation going around, city staff denied these two applications. This is a developer appeal process, um, under, uh, a state procedure. And it's, it's kind of a quasi mediation, arbitration appeal hearing. And, uh, the city commission will be asked to sit in a quasi-judicial manner. And, um, and therefore staff is holding these information sessions in an effort to insulate the commission so that they can hear evidence from both sides and deciding whether to overturn staff's decision or not. Let, let, let me just jump in if I could. There, there is a vested rights determination that is coming before the commission as to the first application under the live local act. The flute we're proceeding is, is actually, uh, separate, uh, before a special magistrate. Uh, and, uh, we will try to give as much clarity as, as we can, uh, during, during all three of these information sessions. You would only need to attend one, but we're trying to accommodate as many people's different schedules as possible. Well stated. Thank you. Thank You. I'm finished. That was Commissioner Oliver? Yes. Um, just like to get a, a brief update, uh, from the city manager regarding Clock Road. You can just Yes, sir. Briefing on that please. Um, spoken with public works and we are still well on track. Finished by the end of the year. Okay. Finished? Done. Done. Alright. Awesome. Thank you, sir. Sounds Good. Thank you so much. Aren't They using part of it? Yes, we are. We are actually the new traffic patterns, we're actually using part of it now, the paved part of it now. So it's coming along. Yeah, it's coming along. So we are, we are happy to see that and we'll be even happier when it's done. Yeah. Our city engineer, Milan Womack's done a really good job of managing this project. Absolutely. Um, I don't have much else, but I do have one thing I actually wanted to read, and I was kind of compelled to read this and not sure why, who is for, it may be for me, I don't know, but I'm gonna read this. It's called The Lord Is My Light in My Salvation. The Lord is my light in my salvation. Whom shall I Fear? The Lord is my stronghold, the stronghold of my life? Whom should I be afraid when evil dos will sa me and eat up my flesh by adversaries and foes, it is they who will stumble and fall though an army and camp against me. My heart shield not fear thou that though a though though though war rise against me, yet I will be confident. One thing that I will ask of the Lord that I will seek after that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in his temple. That's all I got. Thank you, sir. Uh, Mr. Kennedy, did you talk? I just Have, uh, one thing I wanted to bring up that came up, um, supervisor Moyer. Um, I, I wasn't, to be honest when you spoke in the public comment, I wasn't aware that we were continuing the conversation as you said, from when the, uh, was it the VSO was here from the Veterans Organization. Um, can we have staff evaluate that and figure out whether we need to put something on the agenda to discuss that or, well, I, I, he brought up my name. I've got some, I was doing something co totally different from what Mr. Dr. Moy was talking about. I, I've been researching about under, under the veterans thing of having the veterans representative come out once a month or once every three months and have a talk session with veterans and see what benefits they don't know about or they could know about. I, I, I don't know what he's talking about. I'm, I know he is talking about the veterans thing, but what I was talking about, 'cause my neighbor was brought up a while ago. I'm dealing with the veterans of Orange County on Michigan Avenue, and he was at, uh, the, uh, memorial that day. Yeah. But I was just trying to get fix where we can bring them in and have a discussion and talk and see things that they're need to know about, like taxes. For instance, if you're a disabled veteran, if you, if you get say 70%, 70% of your taxes is paid by in Orange County, not in the city of oco. But that's what I was planning on doing is 'cause I've had some of 'em talk to me and ask me about it. And I, being I'm a veteran, disabled veteran also is that's what I wanted to do, but that's what I was talking about. So I'm, Uh, so, so I would like, do We need to put something on, if we're gonna let him do that, then I'm not gonna do mine. Well, can we have staff meet with him and evaluate a recommendation? Yeah, because can I, I'd like not, I don't want to do two of 'em. Right. Well see. And, and when Mr. Moyer mentioned about, I'm sorry I'm not a veteran, but I'm just gonna ask something he mentioned about a committee. Well, if Orange County already has the committee, they do let them have the committee. And again, I thought that that man that represent came in here last meeting and made a very nice presentation. If he's a person you're thinking of, he offered to come in no, to Well, he, he, well, okay. But he even offered to come in and speak to people and Well, I know, but he's, if you, if and I, I know he's, I've talked to him and I talked to him that night. He's a busy fellow. He goes everywhere around the state. This gentleman is right here. Matter of fact, he also lives in Oko. But it was, it, it Carl. Carl, Carl. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a thing to set it up for our citizens in the city of Oko. It can be, if they want to come once every month or every three months, we'll set it up and they can come there and we can have just sit around and talk. That's what most of the disabled veterans, they, they go to these things and they, they discuss things that was dealing with them and their veteran stuff. And then, and he knows, I guess you know Carl too. Yeah. He's one of the better ones I've run across to in the time. But that's what I was trying to do. When you start having that guy, that guy told me how busy he was. I and you, you heard him. Yeah. I don't think, and he knows what he's doing, but not what that that's not what I was talking about. I either One to get appropriate Attention. I've been thinking about it for a year. But I that I think an advisory board is just one more board that we have. That's right. Can tell people instead of, Well, I'm not gonna have an advisory board, But I mean, that's what I think that Mr. Moyer's Talking about. Yeah. No, I don't wanna do that. Talk about delivery of services. I don't have time. We're talking about that Delivery of information. So, we'll, I'll talk to the city manager and see we come around. I'll talk to Mr. Moyer also. That's it. All right. I got some things to read here. So, uh, city of oco, December, OCO Community Market LS and experiments. Thursday, December the fifth, 5:00 PM through 9:00 PM OCO Lakeshore Center. Um, that's tomorrow. Matter of fact, brunch with Santa Saturday, December the 14th. No, that's tomorrow's Wednesday. I'm talking about Thursday, Saturday, December the 14th. 9:30 AM through 11th, they'll having a brunch with Santa Holli Holiday Dog Parade. Saturday, December the fourth, one 30 downtown OCO Judge Mcg begins at 1:30 PM before the start of the parade. Car Parade. And show Jolly Jamboree Saturday, December the 14th, 1230 through 3:30 PM Downtown oco. Winter, winter Holiday car show. Saturday, December the 14th, 1230 parade check in begins at 1145. Parade is from downtown Oak COI to the Lake Shore Center. Jolly Jamboree Tree Lighting, Saturday, December the 14th, 3:00 PM through 8:00 PM Tree lighting at 7:00 PM downtown Oko. Youth basketball winter season. Jim Beach Recreation Center Restoration ends December the 15th, 2024, ages five through 15. $65 for residents, 75 for non-residents. Also, we have a golf cart parade that's gonna start up on, uh, Adair Street from the, uh, TI Center. And we'll start at five 15. Be there at a quarter to five, no charge, just bring food or a can of, can of food or anything like that. That, and it'll come downtown to park here behind, um, city Hall. Anybody else got anything they want to tell about? All right. Thank you very much. See you December 17th.