##VIDEO ID:nAo3zc8IyW4## This, oh, October the 15th. We're gonna have the, uh, prayer by commissioner, uh, Mr. Hart. I keep saying that. Come on up to the podium and then we'll have the pledge leads to the flag. Mr. Brad, will you lead us in that? Mm-Hmm. All right, let's stand. Please Do you, heavenly Father, we thank you for the abundant grace and you mercy that you've shown to us, us to allow us to come together to conduct the city's business. And Father, we pray that you help us to come in together as in the spirit of unity, not seeing each other as, as a divisive nature, but seeing us each other as brothers and sisters. We pray that we continue to work together and never dis maybe know we may disagree. Let's not disrespect or disengage from one another, but work in the spirit of unity. We say a special prayer for all our brothers and sisters over the state of Florida and the South who are dealing with the hurricane and, and this aftermath. Lord, we pray that you'll watch over them. And remember to watch over our first responders. Keep them safe as they watch over us. Watch over them. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. My pleasure. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, invisible with liberty and justice for all. Commissioner Kennedy here. Commissioner Wilson is absent. Mayor Johnson. Here. Commissioner Furner. Here. Commissioner Oliver here. Alright, we have a, um, presentation of the Citywide Golf cart, assistant city manager, er, and please, chief Ogburn. Thank you Mayor. Um, happy to do this with the chief. We are, uh, bringing this item back before you at the April 16th, 2024 meeting, we gave you a presentation on the difference between golf cart statutes and lo speed vehicle statutes. Requirements went over the current program that the city has for allowing golf cart communities. And in that discussion, uh, the motion made by this commission was to bring back a program for looking at the roads and a cost to do a citywide, uh, golf cart allow, uh, per, uh, in the citywide allowance of golf carts on the roads that meet the statutory criteria. So I'll turn over to Chief Ogburn for a brief update on that. Then I'll come back with the, the program in a map for you guys. Good afternoon, mayor and commissioners. Um, we worked, uh, it's not up There. Oh, yes, thank you. The staff and I work diligently on this. And, uh, as you can see, I'm not gonna reiterate the golf carts 'cause we already know what golf carts are. Uh, they can't, uh, go over 20 miles an hour. Um, and we, uh, making a designation that says the responsible local government entity must first determine that golf carts may safely travel on roads across the public road. A street considered in considering the factors of volume of traffic, the speed of traffic, and the character of the vehicle, traffic. And, um, golf cars can be oper, can maybe operated on parts of a state highway system only under the certain conditions. And the conditions are up there to cross a portion of a state highway system, which intersects at County Road or Municipal Street. Uh, and upon his determination that golf carts must be operated, operated on, given roadways that the department shall post appropriate signs on the road to indicate that such operation is allowed. And, um, again, the golf carts cannot be operated by anyone under the age of 16. You have to have a driver's permit or driver's license. Anyone over the age of 18 must have a valid driver, I'm sorry, a valid ID card. A government issued ID card. Uh, and then we chartered in the low speed vehicles. We were told about them. They can go up to, uh, roadways up to 35 miles an hour. And, uh, they must be equipped with the headlights stop lamps, turn signals, tail lamps, reflectors, um, and the vehicle identification number, which is very important. And this hold, um, thought of the golf carts because with the VIN numbers, we have something to actually say who owns the vehicle Golf carts. There is no way to register a golf cart. So we can't, if one, we find one abandoned somewhere, we don't know whose it is. Um, and I'll turn it over to you, Mike. Yeah. So I'm gonna show you a map. So we have the existing, what the, the several neighborhoods that came through that were permitted by, uh, resolution to be a golf cart community. And then the program we did, and I'll show you further here on this map, lemme get to it. So, so city staff, including the, um, help of GIS, uh, Lewis Public Works. The city engineer went around and mapped and, and drove the city. We identified all of the city public roads, which are in green, which meet the criteria, the, the statute, uh, the posted speed. They also counted and identified every existing golf cart sign. And every, uh, if this commission goes forward with staff bringing an ordinance to change that, to allow it citywide on public streets. Private subdivisions have their own, uh, have their own rules, uh, the amount of signage and polls needed, uh, and, and sort of a opportunity cost for staff to, uh, facilitate that program. So we have a map that is ready to go. If an ordinance is requested by the commission, which identifies all the streets they are in green, that would meet the criteria. Just want to remind you. And, and we will do a, we have to do an education program, but they would not be able to, golf carts would not be able to cross Clair, Conoco 50 Clark, a lot of different roads like that. So you would not be able to golf cart from up on the north end all the way down to, to downtown. Many re uh, neighborhoods would just be neighborhoods only. And so with that review and inspection now, we're assuming, and just sort of when we counted signs, all of the city streets, public streets are safe. They're 50 foot wide minimum right of ways, 22 foot of pavement to 24 foot of pavement. So we don't have any unsafe roads that we determined. Um, if when they're going out again to put up a sign, if something had changed from the storm or, you know, we can react to that. But we're just saying all of the streets on the map are identified as such. So we did this program with staff, cataloged it all. And so what we're looking at is We need 188 new signs and we need 70 poles. The difference is we can attach some signs to existing stop, stop signs on the exit. So you have to sign the, the, the, the road, uh, golf cart accessible. You have to sign the exit, you know, not beyond this point. So at a cost of, uh, $3,933 in materials, if we want to just say, kind of give you a view overall costs with all the staff going out there to members, the two signs, it's, it's about a close to a hundred dollars a sign. So we're about $20,000 in a way, in a, in a sense of, uh, personnel and material. We don't need to fund the personnel that's already in their budgets. It would be the, uh, signage in the poles of $3,933 of which Public Works has, you know, a, a but signed budget to cover that. So we're bringing it back to you. We've counted, we need 188 signs, we need 70 poles. Uh, we have all the roads identified that could be golf cart accessible. The map indicates what signs are needed where, and we are ready to hear direction from this commission. Thank you. Can I ask you a question real quick? The, um, um, it was something I wanted to, it's about the golf cart. So, so you said they can go across the Silver Star Road? They would not be able to go across. Okay. The state or county roads, right? State or county? Yes, But the And, and roads. Yeah, the roads like Clark that are city Road, but this posted speed is over 30. Alright. Will you also have these maps where the people who can get 'em, if have 'em here at City Hall, at police station? If You, if you give us direction to go forward, we would have to do a big education campaign such as Right. No golf cart riding on sidewalks, right? Yeah. The age requirements, the, the, uh, the requirements for a low speed vehicle. There's a lot of education we're gonna have to do. We'll provide you more of that information at the public hearing for the ordinance, amending the golf cards if we go that way. Alright. Any comments from the commissioners? So, um, thank you. No, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead, commissioner. No, you were first. Go ahead. Oh, So you mentioned that, that, um, when you, when we actually look at an ordinance, we would have to provide things like age requirements, uh, uh, speed in certain zones, those kind of things. So there, I, I guess there's a lot of nuances to be added to this, uh, this particular type of ordinance. Um, so once those are in place, then there's an educational component. So, uh, we, we, we go from an ordinance to educating. So, so I, I'm trying to understand exactly at what point do we flip the switch and say, go. So is it, is it, uh, do we create the ordinance? We educate over a certain period of time and then we flip the, the, the switch on to say, okay, now we're able to do this. And then, um, at the very tail end of it, there has to be some type of enforcement. Because again, if we have an ordinance that, that, that lists all these things that needs to be done in order to, uh, operate a golf cart or a fast moving, uh, vehicle in these areas, then there has to be also some type of enforcement. What is, would that be a part of the plan as well? Well, well, commissioner, we currently have an ordinance in place. Only thing we are changing is the age and, um, where you can and cannot. And, um, I would hate to stand in front of you as the chief of police and says, we'll give people 30 days when somebody cross the road and gets, gets injured or hurt. Um, so we just would mainly take that on a case by case basis. But, um, I think we have an ordinance in pla in place and people need to adhere that. Once we change it, it's, you know, give that blanket. Yeah. The proposed ordinance that the chief has already created. We had these discussions. 'cause the ordinance could be as simple as per Florida statute, but in our discussions, we think it'll be easier for the officers in the public to be able to look this information up on the city's ordinances. So we're looking right now in our draft ordinance of putting a lot of those provisions of the requirements in the ordinance of, of the, the age and the road and, and all those, not the low speed vehicle on how to make it, how to convert a golf cart to low speed vehicle. Yeah. So we are gonna put those elements in the ordinance so it's out there more readily, more easily found, more easily for the police officers to point to, to somebody and say, here it is. This is a requirement. But if we go forward with the ordinance, it'll be a public hearing. So we'll have a first reading and a second reading. The education really would come af after the second reading, public hearing, say, this ordinance has passed, here's the education. And start that process. This, my main concern is, um, I I, I still see a lot of teenagers that, that ride these golf carts in my community and other communities. And, uh, again, they, they, they don't even have a driver's license and they're, they're driving these, these vehicles. And, uh, I I just think about the risk involved of, of that mentality driving these type of vehicles that may wanna cross Silver Star or crossover cla Connoco Road, uh, with these golf carts because they think they can do it. So that's one of my main concerns. If we go citywide, that's gonna happen. It's that, that's, that's a element. It's a possible police have to enforce. That's what the map shows, you know, uh, the map, you start taking this all this green, and now it, it adds an another element of, you know, of opportunities and, um, so of to people to, to do that. It just Leads the question to me. You, you see place, like the villages, they're designed. They, they were designed from the beginning to have things like golf carts and golf cart communities. Uh, from what I see, I, I don't see our city being designed that way. I think we're trying to convert our city into something that was probably not really designed to be, uh, now I can understand maybe some private communities having these, these things in place, but when we start opening up, uh, the city streets with, uh, with golf carts, there's a lot to consider and there's a lot of risk to consider in that as well. The, um, the same problem goes with the red light cameras, even though I don't like the no turn on right on red, but they run those too, so, you know, they, they going to have to learn what it is, you know, and do it. I don't know what all the cities that I know around us have golf cart. So you want me to speak commissioner? Yes, sir. I, I had a question at mostly around enforcement as well. Um, somebody crosses Clair Kona OCO in a golf cart. Your officers enforce that, even though that's a county road. Yes. What's the penalty for that? Is there a fine for, for The sta Florida State statute? It's a moving violation. Is that 150 bucks or 300 bucks? You, I Got, I don't know. The number off the top of I don't wanna is do you hear from other chiefs and other jurisdictions that it's punitive enough to stop it? Or are we opening Pandora's box? Uh, is my question. My other constituents their main concern. They don't, it's not them crossing the county or state roads. It's the golf cart's all over the place. Parking. You don't know whose they are. Um, they just, That's your primary all over the place. Okay. Thank you. That it, that's it. Anybody else? How much liability is the, uh, city accepting by going citywide with this ordinance? What kind of responsibility do we have? Once we put that out there, Our response, our responsibility statutorily, is to determine the road is safe and to designate with a sign. I, I, I would add there that the, uh, city has immunity for planning level decisions. And so what I'm hearing from here from, from, from staff here is that these are planning level decisions where we're gonna, um, allow these, uh, types of, of vehicles and, and, and where the signage is gonna go. So, um, we would have some legal defenses. Okay. Alright. So we're just looking for direction. Would commission, now let's bring back an ordinance. It's consensus. This is not an action item other than consensus to start working more on an ordinance and education and bring that back. You don't need to, we already voted right? You wanna have the vote to, uh, direct staff to Do it. Yeah. We wanna go ahead and have a vote. That's what said. There's direct and staff to follow through and go ahead and do it. Alright. On recommending to staff to proceed with drafting an ordinance. Yes, sir. Do we have a motion? So moved. Motion made by Commissioner Furner. Here. Second. I'll second. Second by Commissioner Kennedy. Any more comments? Not let's vote. Motion carries three to one. Commissioner Oliver Votes? No. Uh, the rest Commissioner votes? Yes, would Commissioner, absent? We All right. All right. We got, um, staff, staff reports. Um, one, one thing I wanted to mention, uh, just briefly I'll be bringing back, uh, but the, um, fire station down on Blueford has a roof leak that has been an ongoing problem and we are going to have to do something. Um, it wasn't in the budget, we thought we had it fixed, but the little storm event we had, um, reactivated the problem so that you'll be seeing something coming as an emergency repair in the next couple meetings. Okay. All right. Public comments. Jane Rainer? Yes, Good evening. My name's Jane Rainer. I've been a resident of Ocoee for 39 years, living in Forest Oaks subdivision off of Ad Mims Road. I'm here today because in 2017, hurricane Ima wrecked my home. Um, I think the mayor came out and saw all the damage. I do have photographs. I wasn't smart enough to put them on a thumb drive. So, um, if I could pass those out and you can just have a quick look. This is from the storm of, um, from 2017. Um, the first one is the railroad tracks that I live on. They wash out and, um, it causes all the rock and sediment and sand go into my garden, which the last picture is a picture of my garden that was absolutely beautiful back then. I've never got it right again 'cause of all the sand. Um, and then this happened again for Hurricane Milton. And, um, I had Commissioner Oliver come out yesterday. He came and walked the tracks with me. There's a couple places this time it washed out in my neighbor's, um, back garden. So I didn't get all the sand and rock, but I did get my house flooded again. It went, um, halfway up my kick plate on the patio and into my house. My whole house was, has been remodeled and it got soaked again. Um, so what I'm asking for is who is held responsible? Is it the train track people? Is it, um, the railroad people? I have a business card for the vice president of the Southern region. I gave to Commissioner Oliver a copy of it yesterday. Are they responsible for keeping that area clean? There's pipes that drain into the neighbor's garden that got trounced this time. They have a massive ditch where the water runs into it. Um, from the railroads, there's some pipes coming out of a nursery up the railroad track and further down it's running from Stark Road, which I believe is unincorporated Orange County. So my question to the commissioners is how do I find the responsibility? I can't keep living there Every time a storm comes through, it costs a lot of money. I have a dehumidifier in my house. My floors are soaked. I'm trying to dry them up. Well, uh, Craig, do you want to answer that? I, Um, I don't know if staff had a chance to look into that yet. We have very good contact with, um, the multiple entities that, um, govern the rail up there. Um, I know we were gonna try to send somebody up there to take a look. Um, want to encourage you to feel free to call me whenever something like that happens in the future. Also, Steve, did you guys Oh, Mr. Crew. I was gonna ask if you were coming again. Yeah. Um, yes. The team went out there and looked today and talked. The railroad was actually out making all the repairs. Um, and we had some discussions with him, but that was just the field crews. We have to talk to the, what you said, the vice president come up with a solution. 'cause it acts like a dam until it breaches it and then Right. And it's, and It comes in floods. Well, did you see it before they filled the rocks? Yes. Oh yeah. I have pictures. Um, we went out there and Yeah, I was out there earlier with them. But they're just the worker bees Yeah. With no decision making. Exactly. So we, now that we've seen it, we gotta go talk to him and get it squared away. And we talked to our previous city engineer, um, who was left and about what, what was the game plan here? So we're working on that. Okay. I, I don't have a solution yet, but, uh Okay. I was just making everyone aware of it. Does The railroad land run right up to the back of the fence? Yes. Yeah. All along Tranquil Oaks drive. So I was there before. Yeah. Yeah. Most of my neighbors, I have one here with me, um, suffered from the damage the storm. So how will I leave this? You're gonna, I'll have to let you know what we, we find out and I'll let the commission know too. Okay. Just Have Your contact information. Oh, you Let me, I will. I looked it up today. Oh, You did? Just wait, wait until they, I'm A cane, aren't they? No, I knew when they showed it to me. Oh, Okay. No, I just wanna say one thing after looking at that. Uh, there, there are actually, uh, and the, along the railroad tracks, there are drainage pipes that's designed to keep the water flowing in a certain direction all the way up and down. I think we walked maybe a quarter mile down the road, down the track yesterday. And there ac there's a drainage system in place that's probably been in place for a while there long, probably before the community was there. So it was designed to actually move water along the track as opposed to what it did. It washed the tracks out. So that was actually put in place to protect the, the, the railroad and railroad track. But unfortunately, the vegetation has not been kept up back there. And it's actually impeding upon the, the pipes and the water to, to actually drain, uh, down those pipes the way it should be because it actually goes all the way to the lake. Uh, but it, but for some reason, uh, there's too much re vegetation back there to allow the water to drain properly. But it is in place. I would think it probably, it, I would think it may be their responsibility to make sure that their pipes that they put in place, make sure they work properly, uh, to move that water. But who's to say don't Disagree with responsible for that Commissioner? I just, I don't wanna make any commitments at this point. Gotcha. Thank You. Alright. Thank you for your time. Well, you gonna get back with Ms. Rainer, right? Yes. Okay. All righty. Uh, Mr. Moyer, My name is Dr. Jim Moyer, live in Harden Park off of Clara Coe. Um, I want to give a shout out to Navy Veterans Commissioner Furner and Commissioner Oliver Sunday was the 249th birthday of the United States Navy. Also, give a shout out to Mr. Hart. The month of October is American Pharmacies month. Uh, yesterday of course was Columbus Day, whose credit with discovering, uh, America. And today is the last day of Hispanic Heritage Month. Of course, it runs from September 15th to October 15th. There's also a lot of other heritage months in the month of October. Filipino heritage month is October, and they're the third largest Asian subgroup behind Indians and Chinese. And this month as well is German American Heritage Month and Italian American Heritage Month. And, uh, Polish American Heritage Month. Sorry for, uh, so please join me in celebrating the culture and the heritage, heritage of all these group. Thank you very much for your time, and God bless all of you. Thank You Dr. Moore Moer. Thank you. Alright, I'm gonna read off some, uh, stuff here earlier tonight. That way we don't wait until everybody gets away from here. Before we have it now, city of OCO events, October Coffee with a Cop. Thursday, October the 17th, 8:30 AM through 10:30 AM McDonald's 1 1 1 3 1 West Colonial Drive, OCO Walk to Wellness Celebration. Saturday, October the 19th, eight o'clock to 11 o'clock. Orlando Health, health Central Hospital, walkin Path 1000 West Colonial Drive, OCO PD will showcase their pink breast cancer truck and give our breast cancer awareness items. Halloween how night Friday, October the 25th, sixth pm through 9:00 PM Bill Breeze Park, 1 25 North Lake Shore Drive, Oak, coi, Florida, Halloween, scarce Crow contest 2024. Restoration is open. Scare Crow submitted in person will be displayed on Halloween night. City of Oko Youth Baseball restoration opens Monday, October the 21st through Sunday, December the 15th. Season starts Monday, January the sixth through Saturday. ja, March the eighth, ages five through 15 costs $65 for city residents. $75 non-resident. Alrighty, that can probably be picked up on our, uh, city TV channel. All right. Consent agenda. I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Alright, motion made by Commissioner Kennedy. Do I hear a second Before we second? I'd like to make a motion to pull an item for discussion. Uh, item number two. I have to have a second. I Think you need a second, huh? Yes. You need a second. I know. Alright. No second. Move it on. All right. I need a second. I'll, yeah, I didn't get a second for that. So now we're moved. We've got a motion for the syngen and I need a second for that. I'll second that. All right. Motion made by Commissioner Furner. All right, let's vote. Motion carries three of us. Um, uh, commissioner LER votes? No. All right. All right. Second read of ordinances public hearing. Second reading of ordinance amended section five dash three of the code of ordinances for qualification of candidates For me. An ordinance of the city of Ocoee, Florida amending section five dash three of the code of the city of Ocoee pertaining to the proof required for meeting the one year residency requirement for candidates for the offices of Mayor and Commissioner, establishing that candidates must consent to a background check to verify their residency as required by the city charter and qualification to hold office under Article six, section four of the Florida Constitution for elections to be held in March, establishing the qualifying period for candidates for the offices of mayor and city Commissioner between noon on the first Friday in December until noon on the second Friday in December. And authorizing the city commission to set any other five business day qualifying periods by resolution. That it? That's it. Alright, I'm open to public hearing. Anybody in the public have any comments on item number 11? All right. I'm gonna close the public hearing and bring it up to the das. I need a motion where I need comments. You any discussion? I said discussion. Oh, I'm Sorry. Well, Actually, I do have a discussion on this item right here. Um, I've actually been looking at this item, which, which I actually agree. I agree with this. This particular proposal, I have no problems with it. I agree with it. Um, be honest with you, I think between one and five years is, is, is reasonable. But unfortunately, over the past month or so, I've actually done a lot of research on this particular, uh, item here in this particular proposal. And I have found, um, several, uh, Supreme Court cases as well as, uh, state Supreme Court cases, California, Texas, Georgia, Louisiana. Every single, uh, Supreme Court, uh, uh, state Supreme Court Justice has related to, uh, one particular item when it comes to, to this. It states that, um, One year residency, which again I agree, but when I'm looking at the rule of law, and it states that, uh, it, it, it impedes upon, uh, the person's rights to the 14th Amendment, every, every justice that actually, uh, that, that this came before there was an, there was agreement, there was cases, uh, there was case law at the case law that I, uh, looked at. Um, but this particular item, uh, residency requirements for 30 days legal residence is designed, is, is defined as physical presence combined with a intent to re to remain, um, duration residency, re requirements, impose a, uh, precondition to candidacy of public, public, uh, policy have been found to, uh, to implicate the equal protection clause in the, in the 14th Amendment. So, what, what what they're saying is that, um, looking at a one year, you may be asking pen upon the 14th Amendment, which they were again, I mentioned case after case. There was, uh, uh, dun versus Bloomstein. Uh, 1972 cases, actually a California Supreme Court case, the federal, um, the Federal Supreme Court nullified also Texas requirements, a one year statute in three months. Uh, that was one case. Another case was Burns and Stein, uh, held that the Georgia 55th Day residency statute approaches the, uh, it approaches the outer constitutional limits of the 14th Amendment. And in the case, this goes on and on and on, about how, um, someone has challenged these particular, uh, municipalities that tried to impose a one year. Uh, now one thing they did actually agree upon, um, in my, in my readings in Smith versus Evans is that they said that, uh, 30 days is actually enough time for a person to have a, a political, political vernacular to be able to understand what goes on in public public office and, and, and, and actually establishes residency and to run for political office. Also, the, uh, uh, internal revenue, the Internal Revenue Code, uh, states that a person is actually a resident according to a federal code, six, six months in one day. So now we we're, we're imposing upon this, which again, it, it's, it's nothing wrong. I agree with it. I, I'm, I'm, I'm just gonna say it again. I agree with the one year proposal, but unfortunately, if my agreement, just 'cause I agree with don't mean that it's right, it doesn't mean that it's constitutional. So I'm reading what I read, and according to what I've read in the Constitution and the case law that I've read, then I cannot go along with a one year, uh, uh, uh, moratorium or whatever you wanna call it, a one year residency rule, uh, that goes outside of a constitutional right. So again, you have other attorneys, our attorney may argue something different, but then again, you have, I have 50 justices, Supreme Court and Federal Supreme Court Justices stating something different. So I I, I have a pro, I have, I just have a fundamental problem with something that I agree with and going along with it if it goes against someone's cons, possible constitutional rights. Okay. Alright, we got it. Alright, anybody else got comments? C can I just make a request to, to the entire commission? Yeah, I'm gonna let you talk first. Go ahead. Anybody else? He can talk. Okay, go ahead. I, I just have a, I don't mean to single out any, any commissioner here, but for everyone, um, if, if, if there are legal concerns about an issue coming before this commission, I just ask for the courtesy of having the cases that are, that are causing this concerns that I have an opportunity to review them. I may agree, I may agree, uh, in upon reviewing the cases, or I may have reason to disagree. I don't know. Without looking at the cases and, and just, just directness to everyone and not trying to single anyone out, um, would, would really appreciate that, uh, going forward. Alright, commissioner Ner, uh, Well, where we stand now that Commissioner Oliver brought up a, apparently a, a valid, uh, concern and the city attorney more or less agrees that he would like to review that at least before we take any action. I don't know, should we delay this? Well, I I would say that uh, every city in pretty much every city in the state of Florida is probably under, under that one year rule. The problem is, if you don't have that, you got 'em coming in next week to come in and they enter to be in office. So I think it's kind of a, and some of 'em don't even live in the city, like last election. Oh, I know they didn't live here. One that was in your area run against you. Oh, I know. And I agree. So I I'm not for changing that. I'm think one year's. I like that one year. I think it gives plenty of time for people to move in, get settled in, and be on the, uh, voting area. Wanted to run for office. Run for office. So, Um, these came from the Charter Review Commission. We voted on 'em and I believe they were voted on by the citizens. Is that correct? Yeah. Yep. These were, this was voted on by the citizen And we went through a long charter review commission process. And uh, I remember I asked you think I wanted the matrix, you remember? Correct. And compared other cities, other municipalities and the concept of what was a bonafide resident, what was a one year requirement? Um, I'm comfortable with this. I, I wanna make another comment. Not only is there an issue that the city attorney raised of practicality and common courtesy, um, but we have protocols and rules on this commission that if you have a question for staff, you're supposed to raise that when the agenda comes out on Thursday. I'm not going to characterize it, but this violates our commission's rules on how to conduct business in the commission. This, this violates our protocol and our norms for addressing these issues amongst ourselves at the meetings and with staff prior to the meetings. And this issue has been discussed in public in multiple elections. I ran on it, we had charter amendments on it. We, I ran to, um, one of the major issues was to accelerate the Charter Review commission review from 2027 to 2023. And then these came out of that process and were approved by the citizens. And, um, so I'm not prepared to, to stop now at the last minute, uh, because a commissioner violating that protocol in our norms of procedure throws the kitchen sink. Um, I guess that is characterizing it. I apologize. I don't mean to, um, but I'm prepared to proceed and that's my comment. Alright. Alright. That's what we're going to do. I need a motion. I'll make the motion, Motion motion made by Commissioner Kennedy for the, uh, item. What are we on? Item item 11. 11. Item 11. I second it. Seconded by Commissioner Furner. No more comments. Let's vote. Motion carries with three votes. And Commissioner Oliver. Vote no. Alright, item number 12. Second read of ordinance amending section 11 dash one of the city of the code of ordinances for regular city commission meetings In ordinance of the city of Ocoee, Florida amending section 11 dash one of the city of Ocoee. Code of ordinances. Revising the start time for regular city com. Regular city commission meetings should say Providing for severability, providing for codification, providing for an effective date. Alright, any comments before we get a motion? Alright, I need a motion. I'll make, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Minute. Public hearing. Public hearing. Oh, I know it. Public hearing. Anybody in a public Got any comments? Come to the boat thing. Fill out your paper. Uh, my name, my name is Chris Atkins. I live at 6 0 6 Ridgefield Avenue here in the beautiful city of Ocoee. Um, I appreciate you opening up, um, uh, line item number 12 for public discussion. I did notice that if we're talking about policies and procedure and processes, that it was not open for number 11. So I'm gonna speak on behalf of number 11 since I didn't get that opportunity as a public taxpayer and citizen. So in saying a few things in regards to what was discussed on option number 11, I happen to agree a hundred percent with Mr. Kennedy in retrospect to the fact that the citizens of this city voted for one year. Okay? So what we have to do when we sit up here, staff is separate because they're not voted on by the citizens and taxpayers. But those others need to follow our guidance. So by bringing that up, sir, I value that and I hope that that's what stays consistent in our decisions as we go forward. What's in our charter, what the public's voted on should be what we go at. And saying that I think that we could have done a little more due diligence with our Charter review commission. Maybe we should have looked into some of these things. And I'm not saying that in a step against the attorney, I'm saying that in retrospect. But putting charter amendments before the citizens and there are possibly being issues thereafter, it's kind of like too late at that point in time. I'm not looking. That's something that tends to happen when we move a little too quick, right? We just don't cross the i's we don't, I'm sorry. We don't dot the i's and we don't cross the t's. I myself voted for one year. If I would've known that potentially our tax dollars would have to be utilized in a court case, which has happened before in our city, I would've chosen to be more clear about my understanding of how we proceeded. And in saying that, if I just look at residency as a whole, this is how I would've looked at it from the Charter Review Commission, which I will say that I wanted to be a board of, pardon of I tried to be a part of. And unfortunately I was not chosen. And I accept that thank God Residency by the IRS six months in one day. It's recognized for your homestead exemption. It's recognized for your tax base. It's recognized for a lot of things. So I would say that before I went to the public to vote on, I would've probably considered what the national standard was, not what everyone else is doing. 'cause I don't really care what everyone else is doing per se. I wanna do what we can to be as right as we can to mitigate potential problems in the long run. But I agree with Mr. Kennedy, it was voted on. We should stand by it. And if we have a repercussion thereafter, we'll deal with it then. Thank you for your time. Thank you. All right. Any more comments? Can I Make a comment? Yes, sir. I just wanna point out that the Charter Review Commission, I don't, I don't know where did they meet? Is anybody here that was on the charter? Yes, there's a couple people here. The attorney, they met multiple times. Many of those members I think were on prior charter review commissions and are citizens with long histories in the city. And they met with attorney ler, who is forgive me, board certified and government law, and followed the norms. And I think they had a consultant that also suggested language consistent. And our elections are governed by state law. And so I have no doubt I'm, and I'm not a lawyer. Um, but we did have a thorough due diligence process. These concerns weren't raised. Um, all of us have a homestead. All of us pay taxes. So this is a reasonable question that if was a valid issue, you would think would come up in due diligence. And, but at some point we have to rely on our expert attorney Geller and the consultants and the process and we have to make a decision. Um, I'm sure that if under that guidance we just made an error, there will be repercussions. I mean, people have skin in the game. So I'm not concerned about that. I think that's why we do that. I, this commission, these commissioners did not participate in that charter review and we did not in any way, you know, throw gas on that fire in that, in that sense. So thank you for your comments. I respect them. Uh, but I'm not concerned about that. And if there, and if it is, does end up to be the consequences, as you said, we'll deal with that. But I think, uh, my point of view would be that's why we had licensed professionals leading that. And that's their obligation to make sure that the language in those charter amendments is proper and conforms with the law. That's, that would be my position at that point. Alright, thank you. Alright, I need a motion. We're still discussing item 11 or 12. 12, Right? I've read num uh, item number 12, mayor. Um, so I don't dunno if you want to redirect us back to item 12. Go ahead. Well, I already read it. I could read it again if you'd like. Yes, sir. Okay. Item 12 in ordinance of the city of Ocoee, Florida amending section 11 dash one of the city of oco, code of ordinances, revising the star time for regular city commission meetings, providing for severability, providing for codification, providing for an effective date. Alright, I make a motion to approve motion made by Commissioner Kennedy to approve. I, here's second, second that seconded by commissioner first. Is there additional discussion on This? If you, if you would hold your horses, gimme time to say Yeah. Any more discussion, then we would Okay. I know it's hard to hold that horse up. Go ahead. Okay. Well, this particular ordinance is the ordinance of the city of oco Florida amending the, uh, amending section 11 dash one of the city of oco code of ordinances, revising the start time for regular city commission meetings. This is, this is the title of this ordinance here. And it says, whereas the city of the city charter allows the city commission for the city of McCoy, uh, to establish meeting times for ordinances, uh, by ordinance or by resolution. Perfect. Then the next, the next item says, whereas the city commission may exercise any power for municipal purposes expressed except as expressed, especially prohibited by law, meaning that if the law is not, uh, is silent on something, then this is saying we have the right to make our own rules up. So I'm trying to figure out this particular item here. Where does it, what's the relevance of that even being put in this ordinance as opposed to the start times of a regular commission meeting. And then the very, the third item says it goes right back to the actual title. Whereas the city commission in good faith determines that this ordinance is in best, in best interest of the city and its residents and promotes the health, safety, and welfare of the public. And later down in section two, it also, it says, uh, section 11 dash one, regular city commission meetings. It says, uh, the regular meetings of the city, of city of the city commission of the city of OCO shall be held the first and the third Tuesday of each month. Then it takes out six 15, such as, uh, as and then says, uh, of the month, such time as approved by the City Commission and such other regular meetings as May, may be called for the, uh, resolution of the City Commission. And by the resolution. Okay. Regular meetings of the city commission of the city of OCO shall be held at such location as the city commission deems appropriate. When I read this, what this, what this says to me is it says that, okay, if, if we give notice, some kind of notice that someone may or may not see that we can hold a meeting at at 12 noon on a Tuesday in the parking lot. And we could actually do this according to what this is saying. But what really gets me is the fact that, um, we exercise any powers of municipal purposes, uh, except as expressly prohibited by by law. So they're saying, again, if the law is silent on something and it's not there, then we have the right to make up what we wanna make up. And I don't think that this is not even appropriate. That verbiage, verbiage shouldn't even be in this because we're talking about start times for regular commission meetings. So where did this item or this particular sentence, how do the, how is it even relevant to what we're talking about in this particular title? Alright, questions. We got? We got a motion. I got a second. Anybody else ner you? No, Sir. Mr. City attorney, do you Like me to address? I want You to address that. I'm gonna have the vote. No. Thi this is a, uh, common sentence in many, many ordinances, um, that, um, takes from the Florida Constitution, the powers of this, of this board acting for the municipality, uh, to exercise power. And so certainly the power to say, well, we're going to, you know, if, if, if we're gonna set our, our meeting times, that's certainly within the power of this board. And so, um, I I, I don't think there was any, any ill intent at all by by including that sentence. Um, all this, all this ordinance would do, would give more flexibility to this commission, uh, to change the time, uh, by resolution. Um, that's all it's doing. Alright. Motion's made, second's made. Let's vote. Motion carries with three votes. Yes. One vote no. Commissioner Oliver. Alright, moving on to item number 13th. Public hearing approval of land agreement to sell city owned property. Assistant city manager. Rumor. Thank you Mayor. I'm gonna give a little bit longer presentation. Um, this is the second time you've seen this staff report, but I understand there's some questions about this process. Uh, back in July 16th, 2024, uh, this commission under the full staff report, which had every element item of this, uh, contract, was voted unanimously to move forward to, for staff to move to a contract, which I'm bringing forward you before you today. How did we get to this point? Uh, there, there's two properties in question. One of them, one Taylor Street that we purchased beginning of 2024 via, uh, appraisal done November of 2023. I'll submit that for the record. Uh, appraised at $100,000. We purchased the property. There was, uh, cost in that for, uh, the time we spent. It was a code enforcement nightmare, the spent property and and whatnot. Uh, the other piece of property net property is 0.21 acres. The other piece of property before you end this contract is 0.14 acres. And upon re receiving in October, uh, the final 90% plans for the Oakland Avenue Street, uh, escapee and uh, redo of Oakland Avenue, which is under construction right now. This parcel is identified it's 0.14 acres. It was identified needing a corner clip through imminent domain. It was also identified from Duke Energy needing a a, a large easement on it. And it also needed a temporary construction easement from the city of Ocoee in order to facilitate Oakland Avenue that those items initiated a, uh, work from public works city engineer and public works director to obtain the corner clip and the easements. And then Duke, uh, asked if we would on their behalf talk to the property owner, start that discussion on the, uh, easement for Duke. What happens is when we take property and we get easements, they wanna know what they have left. And so in those discussions, um, in that time we were also, this is for the Taylor Street, uh, reconstruction, which is at, um, 90%. It's not fully funded, but we do, we have, uh, acquired all the property except this one piece. We were in it under imminent domain proceedings on the other properties. And this was the last one. And we were kind of working with the owner to not go through in domain pay the domain attorney. We had a mutual interest and he, it's a 0.14 acre piece. We were taking a corner clip. Um, we had it surveyed. So we started cost on surveying the land, uh, which might be in the packet, but I'll put that into the record as well. And so it really left the land with the temporary construction easement and the Duke easement unusable. And so with Oakland Avenue being, getting ready to the, uh, notice of commencement to proceed, which was done in May, um, we had to act and we did not want to do a quick taking and then have to, well the goal was to not do a quick taking and have to settle the price of all of these, the easement and the taking later on. So I brought to this commission July 16th, a staff report was laid out property, the property identifications, the sizes, the offer to pay the city an additional $25,000. The city had, uh, equipment that was on the surplus list, non-usable. And this person had use for those. And those were added into the items that were brought before this commission and voted unanimously. So today we're here under public hearing, under a duly advertised meeting list orange times for the record, for the sale of land. I'll entertain any questions. Thank you. Alright, I'm gonna open the public hearing up first. Uh, have one here. Steven Tilden. Thank you for the opportunity, uh, to come and ask our questions. Thank you for the, uh, recap you just provided. Uh, can you explain perhaps in more detail why the city has chosen not to advertise the property for sale and a competitive bid scenario? I can jump in on that. Craig Chadwicks. Um, we have a history, um, in the city of doing both RFPs for sale properties and for entertaining unsolicited offers. Um, in this particular case, uh, we had an unsolicited offer and we had the circumstances at play that Mr. Rumor just described where we were on the verge of going into an imminent domain process. And so this deal was proposed to my predecessor, Mr. Frank. And after vetting it through our staff, we, uh, determined that it was worth bringing forward to the commission. You know, there are a lot of unsolicited offers that we get that never make it up here. Um, and I will tell you from experience, um, sometimes when we do RFPs, we wind up having to redo the RFP because there are are some developers that will just tie up a property and give you a low bid in an effort to keep a competitor from being able to develop it. And we've had that case with some of the Coca-Cola properties that, that the city has, has owned and sold. Um, and, and those would drag out years, um, in the process. Um, and uh, and we actually have one property transaction that was a result of an RFP right now that has, what would you say that's going on? Three years now? Yes, three years. And we still don't have an approved plan. So in this case, but simply, you know, if we get an unsolicited offer, we're gonna try to follow the charter, which we have in this case. Uh, we got the appraisal, we actually had the survey done. Um, we brought it before the commission for their consideration. And, um, we are having the requisite public hearing tonight. Um, but we looked at how it pencils out. Had we gone into imminent domain, we might have paid twice what we paid for this property. And Mr. Rumor can cite a couple of examples, or I think you may have tried to in your presentation across the street, some of the houses we acquired for the, uh, coy stormwater park, um, were appraised in the two hundreds and we ended up paying close to 500 for them. 'cause when we do eminent domain, we end up paying for the property owner's attorney, which I agree with. Under state law, they're, they're due, they're due proper rep representation. Um, but it's very expensive when we take property and we rarely ever come out. Um, on the good end with re respect to what the property's actually worth, we usually end up paying two to three times more than a property's worth when we have to take a property for imminent domain. So to clarify, on the dis you're, you're looking to simplify the transaction from the imminent domain on the acquisition component because that would be significantly more expensive. And then on the dispossession component of it, that's really where I think, uh, you know, potentially other people would want an opportunity to buy that property. But I think, uh, if I'm understanding it correctly, that there's a broader development objective for the downtown, uh, area. And so, uh, the, the reason for my questioning and my, my line of questioning and concern is because the recent charter amendment that was proposed to the city of Ocoee, uh, would allow for exchange. Now I actually, from what I understand, that wasn't entirely necessary because the city can actually do it anyways. Um, but the people provided, the, the voters provided their opinion of, uh, exchange arrangements and therefore, uh, I thought it important to examine the issue. And, uh, to clarify the record, we spoke too soon on several things today earlier. We'll clarify the record later. Thank you so much. I was just gonna say one more thing for the record. I appreciate you bringing up, um, the charter amendment because that was actually the first question I asked the city attorney when we started trying to figure out how to make this work. Um, was we wanna follow and not not step in anything with regard to the amendment that just passed. So it was, it was vetted by legal before we brought it forward. Thank you. Right. Can I just just add that the, the charter speaks of alienation of, of property, so it's not only the, the sale of property. So you know, when property is alienated, that can include a transfer. Alright. We'll close the public hearing if you've got a form filled out for that. Okay. I'm gonna leave it open then. I appreciate the opportunity yet again to speak Chris Atkins, 6 0 6 Ridgefield Avenue. As I sit here and listen, try To talk to Us up here. And I sit here and I Yes, you know, apologize. Yeah, I apologize. So I sit here and listen. I go back in time, okay? I go back to when we met as a city about what we wanted in our downtown. I remember the things that were promised to us. I remember the costs associated with them during that process. I stood up in the other building and I said, you know, I'm really excited about seeing OCO get something. I'm very concerned that the scale of this is bigger than our britches. I was hoping to see more than one option, but we only got the gusto, the big dog. That's all we got to choose from. And during that time, city engineer was here. I spoke about a significant concern. This concern, like a lot of things I've spoken about in the past gets brushed aside, gets made fun of by certain people or whatever the case may be. But it's a concern because I care, it's a concern because I haven't sat there, but I understand common sense. And when I looked at the scale of the plans, I said, what is our plan for imminent domain? And if you don't believe me, you can pull the, you can pull the record. And at the time I was told there is nothing that needs to be in the intimate domain. We've got it covered. So it just got, kinda got brushed. Like a lot of things do. Now I find it comes right back up. We can't do this, we gotta do this because of in domain when it was not yet again, properly vetted in the beginning. Okay? So then I start to think about respectfully, Mr. Shaddocks, we have a history of, while our history of really hasn't produced us very much, if we want to be square and fair here, we get promised a lot of things like city center, 50 West, downtown, baseball complexes. We get promised all kinds of things. We sell all kinds of city land. And a lot of times, like Mr. Chaddick said, we have to be careful because it may not turn out. Likely expect it to, okay. I look at this staff report that was generated on July 16th, 2024, about five meetings ago. Really quick, boom. Said it to you guys. Hopefully maybe no one in the public would pay attention for that five meetings. Unfortunately, I pay attention to a lot, even if I don't sit in here and even if I don't question everything, I'm not, I wasn't elected. So it's their responsibility. But I continue to hear a repeat about staff recommendations and how they are coming, not coming to fruition. And we are often misled. You said something, Mr. Kennedy, about what voters voted on. Mr. Steven, sorry, I don't know his last name. Tilton. This is Tilton. I apologize. I forgot it said something about you can kind of do it anyways. So this goes back to yet again, the charter re review commission. We put before the taxpayers a question, very general. As a taxpayer, I walk in to vote. Should I, should I not exchange property? Should I, should I or should I not exchange equipment and property? And we said, no, no, respectfully, Mr. Kennedy, just like we said yes to, we want a year. I hope that you guys keep that in consideration when you'd go to vote on this because not only was it not opened up to the public, we seem to have a history of these types of transactions and I would be more apt to be accepting to them if the result turned out. But it never turns out. We can talk about legal counsel and where they guide us, but I've also seen the same legal counsel make decisions that I saw a court overturn. I'm no lawyer either, but I'm human, so I'm not perfect. I don't expect an attorney to be perfect, but I do expect every one of you guys up there to do what the taxpayer asks you what the taxpayer, taxpayer and citizens give you the power to do. That's to fulfill your obligations. I would really like to see our comprehensive plan completed before we do any purchasing, exchanging, selling, buying or anything up. Because right now up that piece of property, we don't even know how it, it's gonna be zoned. Do we? Time's up. Thank You very much for your time. Joe's over. Alright, I'm make a couple comments here. I wasn't gonna say it tonight, but I'm gonna say it now. Means you got up there and I told you if you came, I was going to tell you, you and him passed the messages between each other. That gentleman that just got out, that not true. Where'd you get your information about? I'm gonna bring up the other part too. Steve. I told you so the information I brought up come up front. Well, if I'm, do you sit down? I'm talking to him. You want me to tell you to leave? No. But you sit down till I get talking to him. Yes, sir. I would like to pick out. No, you're done. I'm done. We Consulted the I You keep talking and you're gonna be outside. Yes sir. We consulted. Now I'm gonna tell you again what you saw today. All over the, all these people here, and I'm telling you, I'm tired of it. I've been doing this a long time. All they've do is agitate trouble, agitate, agitator, agitating too now. And I'm telling you again, you're sitting at home and let him call you and tell you what to do. Now, that's where you're wrong. False. I asked you today, that's false. False. One more words. Tell the police to take, take him outside. Take him out. All right. I told you today, I've sit here for 38 years and that jack leg put his comments in there about I get all my money from them. People that's buying that property. Let's all understand something. Folks that is the least donated money to my campaign that's ever been is through that. Take him out, chief, do some more comments on the, on the line before you come with you, buddy. The problem, God, is if I told you, if you wanna come get any information, come up here to the city hall and get it. Like other reporters. You're supposed to be a, I'm not a podcaster. I don't know what you are, Steve. I thought I did, but I don't anymore. A concerned citizen. Well, right, Right. Okay. But you can be concerned. I'm allowed to. You get, if you ask for questions and ask for responsibilities from these people, they'll tell you what it is. No, you're taking it from him. I can now. All right. That's, you've had your time to talk. Alright. You've had your time to talk. I'm gonna tell you something. I don't, I'm cutting to the point where I don't have to take from that mouth that he's said he does nothing but go online and make stupid comments. And I said stupid. Everybody in town goes on to it and tells him it is. So I'm telling you, if you want information out of our city staff, anybody up here, you go to this part here and ask for the city clerk to talk to anybody or, or the secretary to talk to 'em. You know? So you and and I go in there taking a shower, coming to get, getting ready to come to commission meeting. All I can hear all over town is, is I get money from the west to have my campaign. I that my biggest donor is the West. They're the least, least of my donations. And if you research that, you'd find it out. Did the buyer or exchange e donate to your campaign? Who? Scott West? No, The, I believe his name's Tom West. No, Tom West didn't got nothing to do with it. That's Scott West. That's another thing you didn't receive. There You go. Mistaken. We consulted the agenda packet. Yeah, we were looking for the surveys to make sense of What was going on. I'm not going, I'm you're done. And I'm telling you again. So, So you brought me up here. I brought you up In front of the microphone To talk to me. I'm not bring in the public and talk to you about it. Okay. You talked a while ago. No more. I have not taken any more public record talks tonight. Alright. Thank you. I'll get with you again personally, you and I gonna talk again. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. All right, ladies and gentlemen, did we vote on that yet? I'm taking no more tonight. No more. Thank you. All right. I need to vote. I make a motion to approve the motion. Public Hearing's still open, Sir? No, I just closed the public hearing. Okay. I closed it while ago. I brought him back up. It was closed. All right. We got a motion from Commissioner Furner. What's your, do I get a second? I'll Second. Seconded by Commissioner Kennedy. Alright, now discussion. Y'all discuss, you got any comments, commissioner? Um, I saw the Facebook post and I think all I'm gonna say is Mr. Tilton admitted that what he posted was wrong and had an error at least one. And I think there's a history. You say you're not a journalist, but you stood up and you said, we, we looked at it. Kind of a strange word to you. And, um, I think you stirred up a pot. I don't think you knew what you were talking about. Okay. A Minute. I think as a citizen, you have the right to speak, you have the right to ask questions, but I think just being candid, I think all of oco, we've had a couple years of good coordination, good work. This community has been thriving and doing well. And I think for the most part, this is what people are tired of. The accusa leading with an accusation, leading with a false premise, leading with a lie. Frankly, frankly, the city is not paying $25,000. The city is receiving $25,000. If you're gonna stand up and try to create a perception that you're a competent, professional person, then you have an obligation to do, as Mr. Atkins said, do your due diligence. You have the same obligation to reach out to staff as all of us to get your facts right before you go and basically criticize our city and public and our elected officials and me and our mayor. I think it's wrong. It's not illegal. It's just really wrong. And I wish you would reconsider your tactics. That's my comment. Alright. We got any more comments? I have just a brief comment. Um, one question is, um, as I read through the agenda packet, was there an, was there an appraisal added to this? Uh, I, I, I didn't find it. I I, I read through it. We actually, we Property commissioner. No, I mean, do we have an appraisal on any of the properties? I, I heard heard what? It wasn't, it wasn't added to the packet. That was my, that's my question wasn't in the packet. Yeah, it was in when we purchased it in Dec in November. So yes. Okay. We had no, but it wasn't a part of this. That's correct. This agenda here. Correct. Okay. Alright. Okay. Um, as far as, um, citizens coming up to, to speak and, and, um, Mr. Tilden making his comments, um, again, I think e every citizen has the right to, to come up and make a comment. Um, but they should be able to bring, um, pertinent, truthful, uh, factual information and, and, and that that's okay. But again, we don't always get it right. We're human. And, and, and as, as I as I, as I sit here and, and listen to the comments I have seen on several occasions where, uh, again, uh, uh, commissioner Kennedy, you were a citizen that was very boisterous at our public, public place of comment there. Uh, and, um, there's a few times you didn't get it right where you had comments with, with Mr. Cookson. You guys had a disagreement. Well, who was right? Who was wrong? Doesn't matter what was factual. What was truthful was, was actually what was at what was at stake there. So again, again, we we're not gonna always get it right. Citizens are not gonna always get it right. And again, I I did hear you mention that, uh, you got something wrong. There was at least you admitted it there, something being wrong. And, and, and that's fine. But I'm concerned about making sure that if there's going to be a narrative that's put out there, make sure it's truthful and make sure it's factual. And again, uh, is void of any, uh, uh, non-truths that could lead down a whole nother path or a different narrative that is being displayed that may not be correct. I was Okay. Before we vote, I'm make one more comment. Steven. I told you today when I talked to you on the phone, that I wish you'd come tonight and I could talk to you, but I also want you to go back and research some of the other things that happened that money was spent on that shouldn't have been spent on. I'm not gonna get into that discussion tonight, but you and I talked about it. So there's some money being spent before that. Never had any receipts or anything done. Nobody brought up a thing about it. But in the purpose of doing stuff for city and doing things, why would you, why would somebody call somebody else when he's gonna come up and make this comment tonight and then put in there me, which I am one of five that didn't, it's always about me that can't get over it because I had nothing to do with what they were doing. But y'all had to make that conversation in there about me getting all this money from the people. Other people, if you go look at the records and pull up all that lady, young lady sitting down, here's got, you'll see where the money come from. You gotta list it. Now, some people don't list all of it, but I can guarantee you everyone I got I listed and that was the smallest up to what the legal limit is. That was the smallest one I got out of a, out of that group. So, all right, we need to vote. All right, everybody ready? Let's vote. Yes, sir. Did it go? Motion carries you Unanim. Thank you. All right. Regular agenda, none comments from commissioners. Commissioner Oliver? Uh, the first thing I, I, I need to, uh, discuss is, um, I'm back to the, uh, intersection of Clark Road and, um, in Clara Conno Coy Road. Um, I just need to know, uh, we agreed upon sending out some correspondence to, uh, the county about, uh, that left turn signals, uh, northbound North and southbound. Uh, I just need to know where, where are we on that and has that had happened yet? Um, I have the letter on my desk. Um, it has not been sent out yet. Um, I apologize for that. Um, we got a little caught up with the, uh, storm planning, but we do have the letter. Um, and Steve has been, you know, talking to his counterparts with Orange County, um, ever since then. And I know Mr. Rumor just stepped out. But, um, we have been pushing that as far as we can with staff. The letter will go out with copy, with copy to the commission tomorrow. Okay. Now, now understanding the, the importance of, of this particular light and, and the, um, mitigation of loss of life. Um, is there any, any way we can have a discussion or add it to agenda, agenda item where we can actually pay for this, these, this left turn signal and get, get, uh, reimbursement from the county once this road is done? 'cause it seems that we're waiting on the road to, to be completed before we add these left turn signals. But I sit there every other day and I watch cars make a right turn in front of a car going straight every day. Every time that light changes, it happens almost every single time. It's again, another accident. We just had a fatality three weeks ago. It's another fatality waiting to happen. And if we have the ability and the authority and the resources to put the light there, is that something that we can actually bring before the commission to discuss how we can make that happen? Commissioner, I stepped out. You're talking about the cla cono co and Clark Road? Yes, sir. Paid on that. So the light is, the light is going in place. The lights are gonna be going up at the end of October. They will be bagged for a little period. They have to keep shifting the traffic. Once the two west lanes are done, they're gonna resurface the two east lanes. So the, the, the signals are going up at the end of this month, they will be bagged, they'll not be operational because they have to keep shifting traffic through November for repaving of the road and finalization for full operational in December. Full operational dual lefts on Clara Coe East to South Clark. Mm-Hmm. There, that, that left lane has been striped dual lefts. You'll have the right, the through lanes in the left, full signaled in December. It's coming. That's part of the project. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. And again, that, that, that exceeds, but You're gonna see the lane shifts coming up. That's why they're gonna come back and resurface the two east lanes because they've been used for, so Now we just gotta continue to pray for those drivers there to make sure that, that we don't have any more fatalities Yes. Until that light goes up to help mitigate that risk. The next thing, if you can stay there, the next thing I have is, um, I was looking at, um, uh, actually it was presented to me by a citizen. Uh, we were looking at the Florida statute 5 5 3 that deals with the, uh, uh, city, uh, waiving building permits as it pertains to, uh, fees, building fees as it pertains to storm damage. So we have a lot of folks that have, um, roof damage and tree damages and things like that. Uh, are we, uh, equipped to look at, uh, uh, have a discussion to possibly waive fees for maybe like 30, 60 or 90 days in order to let folks kind of recover from this hurricane At the pleasure of this commission? That's correct. Um, commissioner, this is a, a policy decision by the city commission. We could support that if you guys chose to do so. Is this something that we need to add to an agenda or is it something that we can, we can have a, a quick discussion on now? I I I, I just need to get a consensus from the commission to see what their thoughts are, at Least maybe under the state of emergency, um, that automatically extends permit timelines. But, uh, attorney Geller, would that allow us to, uh, amend building permit fees. I'm so sorry. I I was distracted researching something. Um, you have to repeat what the commissioner Brought up because of the storm. Can we waive or reduce or waive building permit fees for those people that have to get reroof and all of that stuff because of the storm damage? Is that, uh, the reduction of fees or the elimination for a period? Um, do we need to come back with an ordinance resolution or is that, can we do that as the commission under the state of emergency by DeSantis and the mayor? I would, I would suggest, um, just take a vote here and, um, that way you've documented what you've done. Yes. Um, 90 days, we'll just kind of see what the permit level is. If it's The statute list, 90 days is what we, yeah. Okay. We, we don't have to do do 90 days. Yeah. So what, what Take It'll be matter of someone. The, the, yeah. It's fence permits, fence permits, roof permits, any, you know, water intrusion. We, we do a, uh, after the storm, we do a survey, but we only see the outside of the house. We don't know what damage is done inside from flooding, water intrusion, but we've had mostly, uh, several, uh, square feet of tiles missing off a roof. We don't document the fence damage, but I foresee some, uh, fence permits and reroof as a, a good number of those from this storm. So that's a good thought. Yeah. The, the, yes. The building, yeah, the fees, billing permit fees are $30 plus, uh, some based on the cost on the permit. Now, if they're building a room addition, if they're, you know, we can, right? Yes. That's new thought too much. So, So I guess we'll lean on attorney. Do we need a consensus or do we need to do I would, My, my suggestion was make a motion and, and a second take a vote. If you wanna waive these fees, I think it, I think you ought to document it with a motion in it. Okay. So I, I can make a motion. Okay. I'd like to make a motion that, uh, uh, that under the, uh, Florida statute 5 5 3 chapter, uh, chapter 5 5 3 0.7922, that the city will waive building coal fees for a period of 90 days, uh, to ease the financial burdens of the residents who, uh, were affected by the, uh, um, the storm, the storm in repairs. I'll second that Motion made by Commissioner Oliver, seconded by Commissioner Kennedy. What do you do about the stuff they throw out that's not in the storm, which is already happening? And so we wanna make sure the citizens get this stuff picked up because we took a little, it took a little longer last time in the storm. So, Craig, Um, if You would like, I, I'd like to speak to that for just a minute. Um, I've been very pleased with staff's, uh, response to the storm. We completed our damage assessments on Friday, the day after the storm was officially over. Um, we fared very well as a community, um, with an estimated half a million dollars in damage. Um, we have an estimated 45,000 qubit yards of storm debris. Um, Mr. Krug and the Public Works team actually issued the notice to proceed to our FEMA approved debris, um, hauling contractor on Saturday and met with them so that we would have, uh, crews in our city, um, yesterday. And we started today all the certifications of the vehicles. We have seven trucks operating in the city right now, which as of earlier today was more than the city of Clearwater had. Um, and they, we have hope of adding additional crews, uh, with the contractor as we get further into it. So we are asking for community patients. Um, this is a, a, a pretty defined process. In order for us to get reimbursed for our costs, um, we have to follow, um, procedures with the contractors that we pick. They have to be vetted through a federalized process. We also have to have a monitoring program established so that we document every load and where it came from. And even the vehicles have to be certified under a federal process. So the, the, the public works team and, and all those departments that assisted them with this did a great job, um, of compressing what took a couple weeks during the last major storm event to get done. And so they're actively out operating right now in the city. If we see that, that they're not getting it picked up fast enough, um, we will of course bring something back to the commission with a recommendation. Um, but we're very happy with where we're at right now. Um, and I understandably, um, realize that nothing ever gets picked up as fast as we'd like. But we are, we're moving light years ahead of where we were last year. Um, we actually started a day prior to Orange County. And not to play that little JAB game, but, um, very happy with where we are are with that right now. And of course, if to the commission, if you have citizens like, uh, Ms. Rainer or anyone continue to forward those to us, we've, we've helped out a couple of you with, with things that have been passed on. Uh, we, we obviously want to take priority in, in addressing those and I appreciate that. Alright. Commissioner Furner, I, I believe we had a motion on the floor. We are in the court. We, we had a motion on the floor. Oh, we can vote on, yeah. Yep. Read the motion back. You want me to read all that back? Guess I can find it. Okay. I like a motion. I like to make a motion that the, uh, that according to the Florida statute 5 5 3, which is 5 5 3 0.7922, uh, the city, uh, will waive, uh, building permit fees for a period of 90 days, uh, to ease the financial burden of the residents who are in need of making storm damage repairs. Alright, thank you. Alright, now we can vote. Motion carries you Unanim. Thank you Mr. Ner. I'd just like to thank all of the city staff for the work they've done in the preparation and clean up aftermath of this storm that came through. I know that, uh, the general public is not aware of the emergency management system that's in place in this city, but I can guarantee for intimately knowing what's involved in it, that you have the best, not just here locally, but the emergency management system that's in place that's protecting this city and all the citizens in it. It is top-notch. Florida led the way, way back in the early nineties to set the standard for the country in emergency management. You have local, county, state, and federal resources at your disposal. And when the need calls for it, the system just goes right into work and the contacts are made and it's done seamlessly and it's all has to be justified and, and accounted for and everything else. But if we need it here in the city, we will get it. And, uh, you have a wonderful staff working for you and they all participate. Every last division in this city takes part in this emergency management plan from the city manager on down. And, uh, I'd just like to thank you for all the hard work that you do and a lot of it goes unrecognized, but I appreciate it. Thank you. Commissioner Kennedy? Yes, sir. Um, I want to echo Commissioner Ners comments about staff and, um, city manager Chadwicks won't say this, um, but we are already seeing, I'm already seeing tremendous changes and reform in day-to-Day process procedures and outcomes in the city of Ocoee since he began his administration. Um, no criticism of his predecessor, but there is a significant change in the vision and not just emergency management, but the day-to-Day oversight and business of the city is vastly improved. As a person that deals every day with citizens, with complaints, with problems, I can tell you that the response and the competence, um, just the overall structure and organization of the city is remarkably improved by his leadership and he's only getting started. Um, it's tremendous and you're doing a wonderful job and your staff is as well. Um, I, I have two requests, Mr. Mayor, if the city attorney could please, um, remind the commission if he could please read the commission rule on commissioners reviewing the agenda and asking questions into the record. Um, mayor, if I may, um, that's, uh, section 3.6 0.2. City commission members are expected to fully review the agenda packet prior to attendance at the city commission meeting. Members should direct any questions or requests for clarification to the city manager prior to the meeting. Members should direct any legal questions to the city attorney prior to the meeting. Perfect. And, um, I don't think that needs any further comment. Um, I would also like you to read into the record the section on commissioners using the commission chambers for video recording or any other unofficial activity or campaign activity. Can I ask a question while that's going on? He's looking Sure. Has anybody done that? Yeah, I'm gonna comment on that. Oh, Okay. Um, go ahead. Not, not, not to hold up everyone, but generally speaking, there's a provision in here that, uh, the chamber should not be used for political purposes for campaign related political purposes. Yeah, We know. Okay, fair enough. I believe that's what you're getting at. And I, That's definitely what I'm getting at because, um, commissioner Oliver is absolutely right for, I, I don't know, for the larger part of the last 20 years that I've lived in this city, I was by far one of the most outspoken citizens. I attended every commission meeting. I spoke at almost every commission meeting, and I fought and stood for exactly what I've done and the improvements that we've made of encouraging communication with the citizens, fighting for what the citizens want, representing the interest of the citizens in my district. Um, it's not always popular. Um, there's business interests opposed in some circumstances. Um, but the things that we've done in our district just in the last few months are amazing. The engagement that we have with citizens. We've defeated several items, uh, at PNZ and at commission that we don't want in our district. Um, we've got the development moratorium to review the Land development code. We have a new improvement on apartments requiring block for the first story to keep cheap, uh, national apartment builders from just throwing garbage product in our city and in our district. And there are many more. The, um, yeah, there were workshops. I participated in them on the ma on the master downtown development plan and in the last year we've hired a master developer, a third party we're working in improving on the, the gas and the sewer and the streets and things are moving very, very well. Uh, in my last 10 seconds, I'm just gonna say that if you research, there's a famous video online of me and other commissioners and our mayor and some private citizens being viciously attacked and slandered from this chamber in a political video. Um, it's not right, it's not the way to do business and our city has turned the page. Uh, former Commissioner Hart says, we can disagree without being disagreeable. We can certainly disagree without making false accusations and slandering and lying about people who are volunteering to serve our community. That's all I have. Alright, thank you. You have something you need to read about this? Well, I, I, I didn't want everyone to leave here thinking that the Charter Review Commission did something, uh, without proper due diligence. Uh, legal research was conducted during the, during the course of the Charter Review Commission. And, uh, just, and this is not comprehensive research done on my, on my iPhone while, while, uh, while commissioners are making their comments, but, uh, there was a case involving the city of Longwood. It was called Davies versus City of Longwood, which had a one year residency requirement. If anyone wants to look this up, the case is 4 23 Federal supplement, five oh threes out of the middle district of Florida, which is the federal court governing our region of Florida, came out in 1976. And it said that the deposition of a reasonable residency requirement as a qualification for candidacy to a significant office does not interfere with fundamental rights as the Fifth Circuit recently pointed out. And the Fifth Circuit at the time was the court above the district courts right underneath the United States Supreme Court. Uh, right now it's the 11th Circuit, but at the time it was the Fifth Circuit. The Constitution itself said the Fifth Circuit itself adopts certain Ational residency requirements for various offices and cite a case Woodward v City of Deerfield Beach. This court therefore concludes that the statute should be reviewed by the traditional standard. That is to say the statute should be upheld if it bears a reasonable relationship to a legitimate government per interest. So what does that legitimate government interest according to this court? A residency requirement such as here in question serves to reasonably assure that the candidate will be a bonafide resident of the city he seeks to represent, will have been there long enough to know the issues confronting the city and will be known by the voters to promote these qualities. And candidate is a legitimate objective of the state. The residency requirement reasonably tends to secure their attainment. The statute, uh, with this one year residency requirement, therefore is constitutional in so far as the residency requirement is concerned. So I, I've not looked at all the case law that that was cited here this evening, but, but at least I, I want people to have some assurance that, that uh, there is some, some very powerful case law in support of the residency requirement that was voted on and approved by the voters. Alright, thank you sir. Thank you. Um, couple things under, I wanted to bring up underground power lines. If we could put in and, and look at the city putting in for ordinances or with companies that do the developers that are gonna come in and build anything. I know it's kinda late now, but if you put underground power lines in and the development, I know developers don't want to hear that, but the problem is, and I I talked to the lady from Duke and she's on board listen talking because they spend more money outta your out of regional power. Uh, who's high is because when they tear down these power lines and poles, these guys go out and work unknown hours putting power poles back up and putting, putting the lines back up. Plus people, somebody in Orlando stepped on one and killed theirself. So I think if we could go towards putting our city development and putting the power lines underground, I know it's gonna cost everybody a little more money. But think about your, your 14 days or seven days without power in your house is what some people are. And a lot of people around the whole state of Florida look at what causes un insurance rates that go up because of that also. So that's one of the things I think modern times matter. Modern days. Let's put, let's, let's go towards putting the under underlying under underground cables in. We did that on part of the town when we did that. Read, rebuild. We'll include some options for that in the Land Development Code Update. Yeah, well I knew we're doing that now. So that was the time to do it. And, and like I said, I was talking to the Duke lady and it's true. They, they're out working, working who knows how many hours a night and day, this thing putting them back. And I said it'd be your, it'd behoove you to do it also. But I will say the other thing and everybody gets mad 'cause I say something, I'm gonna tell you something else. Somebody told somebody and, and was all over. That is the usual thing for people to like, to put out bad stuff. They put it on Facebook on our, uh, oak coy votes about the mayor. She was talking to some Wawa gas station said why did, and the Duke guy was in there. She said, why aren't, why are y'all not putting the, getting the lights on? Oh, the mayor told us we couldn't come in town after nine o'clock. Listen folks, I've never told anybody that. That'd be nuts. My lights went off too. I mean, but that's the kinda stuff goes on with these people putting things online. Everybody wants to put stuff online and tell all kind of stories just like they did before the other thing happened tonight. That's what happened. This guy told this guy, this guy comes up here and says that. So it's like in America these days, everybody's got something to say about something and the other guy's wrong and the other guy's right, the other guy's wrong and the other guy's right. So I think we all need to be a little more consistent or con uh, concerned about what we say things online and this, what do you call it? Chat, chat talk. Or my wife won't lemme watch it. 'cause it's like today I watched it and, and had citizens calling me about what was going on tonight. So that's what we gotta, we gotta tell people don't spread rumors, like you said, don't spread rumors around about people and all this stuff's coming up. Now, you know why we're fixing to be in November and guess what happens in November? People sign up to run for office. So all of a sudden turmoil starts again. All the other thing is, is talking about the gentleman made the comments about a go about the city. Lemme tell you something. Not because of me, but because everybody up here, except maybe some of 'em wasn't here. Mr. Hart was here for a while. He can tell you too, we have done everything we can to make this city a good place to be and a good place to live. You can keep trying online to change it, but it ain't going to happen. 'cause these people are up here are working to make sure it's going to be a good place to live. We city center, yeah, that's a burden. And doggle because the man run outta money. All these things that's happened with Covid and everything else. Some of the things you plan on, some of the things you try to get go away because of the money. And that's what happens. We can only do what they do. We give 'em the process. Our staff, not just our staff, is one of the better staffs you'll find in cities. And most people will tell you that because they go through the process and get stuff done and help these guys get through the process and make 'em develop. All, all departments are the same way. If you've got a problem, you come talk to 'em and let 'em work on it. They'll help you get this thing done. But that's some of the stuff. We've got all kind of new tax base coming into the city. We're fixing to work on doing this project over here where the, the old city halls at the, the music thing over on the lake can tell all that's gonna be developed. But it all entails. People, people love to live here. You come downtown on a Friday night or Saturday night, it, it's packed down there in two, two or three little places that are down there. It's packed. People like coming out here and it, it is a good place to live. So I don't want to kick it. If you run for office and then you want to just kick it after you get out and you don't ever come to meet and sit once or twice in two years, it's hard to keep up with it. But everybody that I know in this city that works up here and it sits up here working, making this city a good place to live and there's always somebody, it's all over the United States just punching it, trying to jab it all the time, wanting to jab it. So once again, I, I appreciate everybody. I appreciate the city. I appreciate him doing that. Sorry about earlier, but I told that gentleman, you know, he got his information from the other gentleman and they, they, that was, that story wasn't verified. And I said, if you'll come talk to this man, our new city manager, he will let you know exactly what we're doing and our new, uh, assistant city mayor sitting in the back. So if you or, and our police or anybody else you wanna talk to 'em, they're open to talk to you. So please do that. Don't just take what somebody puts online all the time. All right, I read all the other things here. So I think that's it. Everybody have a good evening. Thank you.