closed they're not always closed it's the most inviting and welcoming house um and they're most inviting and welcoming people I don't think their intent would be ever to build something that's an eyesore or to um you know discredit the neighborhood so that's my opinion thank you sure okay um well dog f as you can get the invisible fence for dogs that works with our dog um I don't know if we said it um and again I'm not going to point fingers um this is what not old p is about I moved in in 1994 and this and that the whole bit again if it wasn't for one person I'd be the oldest person resident in this room um being that we moved in 1964 Klein Court was Klein's Farm old man Klein used to shoot it with the Sal done when he tried to cross his form um the whole only you what only you wow I don't blame the whole neighborhood we're talking about I was going up was woods so I find it kind of offensive maybe that's not the right word when people say this is not where ult thead is going we're we're we're making progress we're moving forward uh when when I was growing up there was Four Farms in town and a and a a tree farm I don't know what they're called tree farms tree farms we used go slave riding down through the trees hoverman whoever lives on hoverman that used to be a tree farm so it's kind of you know to sit there and say I moved in before you therefore you can't make any changes because I don't like it well I'm going to go back and invoke well I moved in before you and I don't like you building over the farm so you can't do anything so all right I'm off myt box thank you all right do anybody else from the public have any comments come on forward raise your right hand please you swear or affirm at the testimonial given this proceeding shall could you give us your name and address and spell your Lon bro to dri may I sit I'm freezing your AC is like great keep me awake Frank I'm like I um I just wanted to comment on the application um a lot of you know who I am I don't know everyone but most of you know who I am um just put my own two cents in um I obviously read the application I've been listening to everyone and I just wanted to say I'm not I don't want to comment on the error or whose responsibility the error was or whatever that is but um as a resident um I happen to think that this house is beautiful I think I think the fence um is perfectly um in line with the property I think it complements the property um as many of you know I'm also a licensed realtor um I think it it's my professional opinion that I think it adds value and it actually enhances the neighborhood and while it might not be common you know in our town there are a number of other higher-end uh towns who have properties like this with fences like this and what really struck me is uh Mr Poo was speaking about his concerns of security as part of this I guess process uh of erecting this fence and again I I know a number of people who are in town who have expressed their you know dissatisfaction and concerns being the victims of burglarizes break-ins in broad daylight and again it could happen anywhere I get that so I don't see the harm in a resident wanting to protect their investment which quite frankly I think this property adds tremendous value to the town overall I I don't see any harm it's not offensive it doesn't look like an Armory um I I think you know it makes sense and um you know it security is a real concern and yeah I think this is a deterrent uh but I think it was done in a way where it doesn't look like an normary but yet it will serve its function and and I think he has a right um you know to protect his home and his family um you know and their personal property so I I know so I don't I I don't want to say I don't know who it was I'm hard of hearing but you know in terms of comments that you know it's not in line with the neighborhood I don't know if I agree with that I mean ultz man has been evolving since I've been here we're here over 20 years and I I I think you know I think it's in line with what we're seeing ly you know everywhere so I I I I I'm in support of this and I I I think it's fine and I just wanted to offer that opinion thanks FR thank you anybody else from the public have any comments come [Applause] forward you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony will given his pring shun I do and would you state your phone name please spell your last name and give us your address sure Carolina samac um and I live on 24 Greenwoods right across the street so I think a lot of things have already been said in terms of Aesthetics the property the house um I live across the street I see the house every day and I just wanted to just stay for the record I have no issue with the fence I don't think I even knew the height until I got a letter that it was uh tallet that it should be um so from from my perspective again I probably see and I'm finding the most impacted by seeing the fence um from my family and my husband and I we have no issue with having the fence the way it is thank you very much thank all right anybody else from the public come on down I feel like uh show the prices right not work work s or affirm that the testimoni will give this sh sou got I do we have your name Andress place and SP your last name my name is Mark Fable f is in yes and I uh reside at 14 Stewart Court I have been in ultan 31 years I just want to say in my 30 plus years I've only been to four or five planning board meetings and I want to compliment everyone I am proud that this is my ultan planning board because the professionalism the discourse is phenomenal I've been to a couple that were in Orangeburg absolute disaster absolute disaster so thank you I also want to compliment the fos because I thought your application was fantastic I was very happy to hear as a neighbor that it wasn't done intentionally there wasn't some conspiracy about building a fence and then asking for approval so I very much appreciate that I I do walk past the house weekly for sure almost almost daily for the last so many years and my only comment is that it doesn't there is no other fence like that so my only question is does our ordinance as currently stand allow for Gates that completely close driveways because I'm not familiar with the ordinance but having the gates closed is that any type of uh is that covered in the ordinance that's all I really want not that I know of Mr chairman um and and the concern there prohibition there's no prohibition the concern of course is you know you have to get out of the car open the gate and you don't want the cars to hang into the public right away they took that into account when they designed the fence and the gates so that the car can pull in without obstructing the right of way so but there's no presently no no prohibition that I'm aware of then just in closing I know that the professional of this board and you understand what you're trying to do as a planning board on behalf of ultan you certainly have the expertise to make the decision that I think we can abide by thank you thank you for your kind words too anybody else from the public have any comments come on down you swear or affirm that the testimony will give your sh could you give it your full name spell your last name in your address yes sir my name is Gregory Tano I live at 18 stonate last name is t r z i n o thank you so I wanted to speak a little bit about the security Factor here uh living at 18 Stone Gate in the past two years we've had a couple of problems with car theft one of them was at 10:30 at night my entire family was upstairs everybody was wake talking we have motion activated flood lights we have ring doorbells anybody who has a ring doorbell knows when it goes off you look at your phone you toss it and I walked outside to throw out the garbage and I look around and I go where's my car I called my brother I said you take my car you joking with me no no no so went back inside I have security cameras look at the security cameras gentleman walked up open the door got in the car started up bang gone 5 Seconds that being said fast forward roughly 4 months about 2:00 in the morning security cameras go off again turn on the monitor look outside another gentleman sitting there coming up to my new car pulling on the door getting ready to hack the car open the doors steal the car I run outside make a racket gentleman takes off let's fast forward to this past December had a bunch of FedEx packages sitting on the doorstep outside of my house gray Honda pulls up gentleman gets out walks up to the door snags the pack packages throws them in the car takes off this is all within a year and a half now otpd does the best that they can but they can't be everywhere at once if I had a fence around my house definitely would have been a deterrent wouldn't have been as easy for them to just walk into my house help themselves to my goods if nothing else I guess the point I'm making is it is a deterrent it does work and aesthetically pleasing in this case I don't see anything wrong with it um that's really it those are good those are good anecdotes I have a question for you if if you had a 4-foot fence which is what we're going to hopefully change our ordinance to would that be sufficient no sir because my by May sure I'm 6' one I could easily jump this fence wouldn't stop them these thieves come in they're quick that's what they want they want speed they want ease fence that high they could easily jump run up grab Goods take off that's about 30 in high right this this fence yeah but but a 4ot fence would be would be tall you feel that still wouldn't be a deterrent I could easily jump a four foot fence what by the gate get the car out with a gate well see that's the thing a gate is a major deterrent because even if you get you let's say you get over the fence and you do get into the car Gate's not going to open you would have to Ram the gate these guys they're quick they're looking for easy talk Target without a fence without protection it's an easy target okay first of all I'm not getting over 3ot fence without a ladder so come on give yourself sound yourself short I'm actually standing on my chair that's how I well thank you that's appreciate it thank you sir all right I ask again anybody from the public have any more comments regarding the application I do have more comments this time we did for The Enclave that okay a motion motion to close the uh OPP okay second second all in favor all right he wants to very briefly first and foremost I'd like to thank the board members for the time and their consideration this evening in regards to this application um it's our position uh as I stated earlier and I'll say it again um we're not here to accuse anyone of what happened only to show that Mr pusio never had any type of intent in doing this if he had known that uh it could not have been done and that was the only purpose behind that I believe that the applicant and their professional has been able to show that they're committed to having a very aesthetically pleasing landscape Aesthetics as we all know under case law uh can be considered by a board under the C2 criteria there's a number of cases that talk about Aesthetics that talk about streetscape and and the public benefit that can exist I think in this instance and know in this instance that the type of um landscaping that's been done here the type of fence which is very important to consider uh is uh appropriate and uh the C2 uh criteria has been met and the variance relief can be granted it's also very important to put on the record and recognize that each time as Mr Regan's already stated by I want to say again this is not precedent setting um each case each particular piece of property is unique and each case has to be considered on its own so that's not something that comes into uh a board's consideration when they are looking at making a decision also would like to stipulate to the following and we've gone through it but I want to put it on the record that the applicant will install additional plantings on the North side uh subject to the burrow Engineers or board Engineers um approval and guidance uh we would uh create um that the Hedge itself will be trimmed so it will be come a hedge as proposed and most importantly that it will be maintained and the applicant is uh willing to make as a condition that the aovid Hedge in front of this uh fence must be maintained uh replanted if one were to die and it will be a continuing obligation uh for the property owner which means that we can make it on put it on a deed that it will run with the land those are the stipulations that we would so question regarding that last stipulation are is the applicant agreeing to a certain height when you maintain that and other words are you saying that that will not exceed 6 feet or 8 feet I I think you know just a manageable height I don't I don't think I'd like to see it okay the board I I I'm going to talk to my resident uh expert I actually had a very similar condition but that the Hedge currently is probably four or five feet right but that it would not be allowed to ever languish less than three feet that way at least 50% of the 6ot fence is covered so I would say it would have to range between for now and in the future you may not want a hedge forever that blocks your whole house because the house is pretty so maybe between of three feet maybe minimum of three maximum of 10 no problem that no problem I me wasn't wasn't part of the testimony that they were the the Hedge was going to cover the fence yeah so I mean theoretically the approval would be based on the idea the fence is going to be covered so that three to 10 feet thing it would be a minimum of six feet in my mind okay so in my mind if we have a permissible if our law is that we're allowed to have a 3-ft fence and we're covering the bottom 3et of it with a monolithic hedge then you're only seeing a 3ft fence so the top three feet is what requires the variance what's the minimum I'd say three I don't know I but that top three feet is what would require the variance so whether that's covered or not want you want to make it 4 foot to match your fence ordinance I'm not going to make the decision on this but but three seems to make it gives it gives more flexibility to Mr fio in terms of how minimum maximum okay so then why require it say that again so then why you even require it at that point because the only thing we'll be covering would be the the part of the fence that wouldn't even require a variance or anything other than a permit no I understand your point we're going to see the fence as a result of that right that's your point I completely understand that on the other hand if it's a minimum of 6 feet then no one can see the house either that's I would agree 6t that's fine yeah that's what we had thought so what are we doing six 6t minimum of six minimum six minimum six maximum of 10 and I'm going to come by every year and make sure there's 207 perun okay there's 206 all right I think we're we have to get ready to make a make a recommendation for a vote I just I do want to say that this is one of the more interesting applications we've seen in a long time and it's about defense it's it's fascinating um and and it is a conundrum for us um because um I agree there shouldn't be any precedent setting but there like a lot of the people who came up before us are said there are going to be people who are going to point to it right um begging for forgiveness is never a good never good but uh let's get a motion motion just to emphasize Mr chairman any action of the board is not pressent that's all and really can't be offered in evidence of another application I know it's just a con and then just for clar ation what would be the next steps if this didn't pass if if if it fails what happens the applicant appeal the decision to supremor court or would have to pull it down I'm sorry or would have to remove it and make it compliant yeah exactly all right does anybody have a recommendation what a motion to either approve or deny to approve or deny I don't have to I don't no sorry chairman motions come on robt all right before I make the motion I'm actually going to say everybody has said your house is pretty I'm GNA be that one guy painted painted pink painted pink make it stand out no um I appreciate everybody coming up and and saying their piece and stuff and I got in my Soap Box before and you know the fence is where it is permission forgive this who did not who that I mean if you went back 10 ft 15 ft and planted arbites Giant arites and let them grow nobody can say anything and it's on his property he could have 30 foot tall green giant abraitis nobody can say anything unfortunately we're here tonight because of the fence and the plannings so the decision is everybody said in the neighborhood what else the neighborhood um except for the house being painted pink I have no problem with it I'm going to make a motion that we approve the application does anybody want to second that motion I'll second it okay a roll call I reluctantly agree so you saying yes yes Mr can I say no even though they no okay yes yes Council Bo yes Mr ER yes Mr ala no Mr kman no what was the count I have 1 2 3 4 5 6 six 6 to two congratulations thank you very much thank you I just want to take an opportunity thank you all very much for listening to the application than what's that yeah we're going to take a we're going to take a five minute break got another record all right next app apption is the volan is that that pronouncing that right volan close enough all right good you want us to bring everybody back in for you are you okay I ask my understanding noes an order on this forward oh yeah I was asking for the uh the size of your property okay thank you good evening um I'm gady volan 145 Orangeburg Road let swear you in sir would you raise your right hand you swear or affirm that the testimony will given this proing shall be true self done I do thank you so um we moved in ultan about 3 years ago and uh you guys have excellent Sports here and our kids are getting older but with that they play sports and I don't know if you guys been seeing our property uh we're only seeking to put the fence around the backyard area so the kids could play without distracting the neighbors cuz what happens is like when they play the ball or anything that they're doing goes onto the road and if my neighbors are coming driving down the road they can't see that and it's a problem I mean they're nice we all know each other but nonetheless listen you have SUVs I have small children it's not it doesn't make for a very good uh for a very good connection the other thing is uh putting up like a three-foot fence we have a big drop between the road and our and our backyard I don't know I mean we bought it like that the property I don't know how that ended up happening but there's like 3 ft in between the road and where our backyard is so putting a 3-ft fence would do absolutely nothing in our case so m b can you show me on the side where you're it's it was hard to me to understand exactly where the fence was so we're going only the fence is only going here and here and this is where the other houses are two houses where they drive down so it is the front it's the front and then that's this is the this is the whole front we're not putting anything here this is the front part right you're not doing it along the street like the like the previous we also asking for permission not forgiveness thank you um so um and the vinyl fence is here that's why it's fine I would put a different St but I mean I wanted to look already like you know like Unity some sort of unity it doesn't make sense to put a different type of fence if my neighbor already has the vinyl going so um this part over here is raised about 3 ft above where my backyard is my backyard goes into a drop um the grading is what is yeah the grading is is low um they probably f build it in at some point I don't know how that ended up happening but that's that's what we bought that's how it is so 3ot fence here would be absolutely not it wouldn't even make sense the bow will go right over on this part of the road side caring court side yeah um I mean if I stand it's about it's in your look my waist I already there um so a 6ot fence would keep the ball in it would allow us you for the kids to be safe to play in the backyard also keep the deer out because we did have an incident last year where they have come and put down the de it had because it jumped through here this rocks here it ripped open and it was not I don't want to go into details but it wasn't very pretty side we and police department they came down they had to put it down was to pledge to see something like um and that's really what we're here for is it because it's a corner lot it is a corner lot you're only allowed a a a fence of four feet is that what it is it's three right now on one side right corre between the building and the side street line correct okay that would be the called right otherwise it's 3 ft dis per minuted correct okay and and um do you have any I don't remember do you have any description of the fence what I submitted it yeah I sub it's to continue with what's there right now I'm only building Like A L shape this already has the vinl fence actually this vinl fence the neighbors goes all the way into the road but that again yeah that's the colonial man right so they already have the fans I'm just continuing it this way the STS of the fans were emailed to you okay so you may not have it in your if you PR it out got it anyone know one have 3ft dropic why I don't know this road never existed okay so your property went over to the property across the street and this house is driveway used to come off orangburg road that's why you see a rock wall over there so when they cut this road in to put those houses back there they had to level it off so they took some from that but it added to here CU it was slow they that way okay so that's why you guys get that going to be testing that be a history lesson and the fence that's there you said is a white vinyl fence it's a beige vinyl beige and it's it's closed it's F closed what' you say phe beige beige beige oh beige okay beige color okay what what are the boys hitting where they doing whiffle ball oh soccer soccer ho so six foot six foot will last with soccer for about four more years and then then they won't be able to play there anymore it'll be too big well we didn't notice that in the beginning beginning was fine as as they get older yeah um so is that your testimony it's much shorter than the previous yeah I mean yes I kind of I had a long time to like narrow it all the way down a quick question for you are you open to a different type of fence are you open to a fence that is more I'm not going to say aesthetically pleasing because it's in the eye of the beholder but something that's more open like the previous applicant had just it's a question I'm not taking a [Music] suggestion it's going to look like uh it's going to actually like as they went the value go up this is going to make the value go down around you're going to have uh a vinyl fence at L shape and then I have my see-through fence which it's like it's going to look like out of place okay completely my first choice would not be to the vinyl my first choice would be to go with something that a lot cheaper vinyl is more expensive the reason I'm going that way is just to make it look like I don't want to have any problems with the neighbors I want them to feel like everything is like symmetry all right let's run around and ask questions John uh you indicated that there was a dropp in grade uh that affects that side street there and you're saying that uh what's the drop um it's about like almost to my waist that's the curve and then it goes up yeah and then it kind of levels out once you get to the street level I'm just trying to visualize what the impact would be visually on the neighborhood I I have no other questions Mr chairman the fence is going to be on the lower part right I read it correctly yeah okay so from the Stream Point John still going to be 3 it's going to be like 3 feet CU you're 3 feet up that that that's that's the point I'm trying to make that again looking at the statutory criteria are there physical reasons grading could be one of them in terms of the C1 C1 could be it could be viewed as a C1 argument if the grading is such that three fence wouldn't work to contain the activities in the backyard is something the board can consider I'm not making an argument for the applicant I'm just putting some context of the test how far would the fence be from the road about from which road it would be be about I guess 6 6 7t maybe even 10t whatever whatever is the whatever is allow whatever your property line is whatever the proper I have I have I have an additional question um there's some trees I I'm looking at here I can see trees on on on Caren Fort will will the construction def fence result remes no we're not going de you're not taking down any trees we're not going I need to get that on I the fence is going to be on our property or if onist yeah I just have one uh question says the properties is below the roadway level are you are you fir to Karen court or it's below orange cour no it's below Karen Court okay um no no no further questions those thank you oh I have no questions Char any questions uh no I already asked my question thank you I have no questions no question no question I have no question question answer many familiar with the property it's the drop off is considerable I think it's okay no question all right we do have to open it up to the public even though there's nobody here make motion on it anybody second on that motion all in favor does anybody from the public who's not here have anything to to ask the applicant seeing none um motion to close second second all in favor okay great we have to then do another motion for we to what meos means deliberate all right does anybody U have anything they want to talk about or anybody want to make a recommendation a motion to approve second okay secondy before I was going to say motion to deny but I figured that would create some chaos in the you would have got your second though all right Dan Chio yes uh Mr leie yes Mr Jun yes councilwoman masaro yes councilman boy yes Mr Eller yes Mr scaa yes and we appreciate requesting rather than asking for forgiveness thank you and Mr Kramer yes congratulations good luck boys I hope that was helpful the previous one for you are they helping put the fence up were you guys there when the the tree got hit by lightning or was that before no that was we bought after that came down remove we had to remove the two big trees that were about to fall on the house interesting that was an interesting experience the tree didn't come down and exploded yeah exploded the boys playing soccer already in town um yeah they're part of the so thean soccer my wife actually used to be for the kids uh oh in the ultan rec ultan Recreation this now now they have new program now now you guys hired somebody else to to do it right the the town hired somebody else to do it right it's no longer like before it was the father that was doing the yeah my kids are gone now they said trainer yeah now they said that the train I else have to have a great night thank you congratulations I'd love to commiserate some more but we have to actually go back to take care guys enjoy your [Laughter] fence all right we have to [Music] revisit okay we have to revisit the um fence ordinance we agreed to do this at the end of the meeting so that we didn't uh bog down the conversation and uh I'll be honest with you after seeing that application before and listening to all of it it makes me wonder uh certainly the 40 the 75% open might be good recommendation yeah I didn't I to be honest I thought it was well written I didn't take exception to anything that was being altered in terms of the ordinance it's dealing with voids you know how much spacing you should have pretty comprehens set facts I mean I if I knew the burough wanted to take this I would have you know suggested some but you I was is it too much though is it is it too much all I think it's a Well written comprehensive approach now will need to be tweet well experience will tell us um it doesn't change I don't think this whole issue of four versus six in the front yard no it's going toate the same problem yeah because you know what we're trying to avoid I'll get I'll share My Philosophy with the board for whatever it's worth um the front you you have private property and you have certain rights that you get to enjoy with that private property we can come in under the under the the uh executive powers that are given to the government to regulate you know setbacks and things like that um you know that goes back to Amber versus uid realy many many years ago 1926 thank you you I was there you know and some people think I Bob and I argued on behalf of uid of UK Ohio yeah we actually took a plane to get their limberg flu us but is that the same is that the same year Mike moved to town that is that the same your Mike moved in wow is have police poers to regulate private property but for the most part you get to use your residence as you the most public part of your property the most important part in my view is your front yard why because it establishes the character of the street which affects everybody who has to drive down that street right what you do in your backyard well that impacts really is more local based on your neighbors your sidey yards are even more unless you're a corner lot is even more limited you know so it's a matter of light and air for the side and rear but what does it do to the character of the front of the neighborhood when so think about this i' I've worked in cities for example where people have open porches and then all of a sudden they started closing them you could see the impact along the entire Street line change you know you get the saw to you get this blockage you get you know you don't get the character that you're looking for now I know this community and and you're very concerned about your residential character you should be it's it's in every planning document that I've reviewed and written for you so what this is attempting to do is to draw to strike a compromise between look you can do what you want with your property but because it's a front yard we're going to be really tough on it because of what it can do to the street that's really what it boils down to I think this tries to treat the aesthetic issues as well as the security issues you know you put a 4-ft fence in a front yard and you put Hedges behind it or in front of it you know that's a deterrent you know that could still act as a deterrent this ordinance maintains a 4 foot in the front yard and so I just you know that that's key but I I I kind of felt that this was an appropriate approach to comprehensively addressing fencing in the buau I certainly didn't think it was inconsistent with the master plan policies because if you're trying to shore up your neighborhoods well that's one of the goals of the resident of the of the master plan you know it's replete throughout the document so in my professional opinion as your planner I'm advising the ordinances are not inconsistent and the governing body can be advised of that if there are tweaks to this based on your review feel be free to make those recommendations but I kind of felt that no I had no issue with it it just it was a lot I was surprised by the amount of red that was in there it's a rewrite and and I read it carefully again I compared it against the I wanted to make sure it was you know they were ready lining and and and and keeping this the same portions that are already existing and everything lines up and it's very clear in the red and the strikeouts what's being done overall I I think this is the direction that Town's you know will be going in and should be going you know the two applications we had tonight aside from the beg for forgiveness part let's forget that part and and on that point Mr chairman this board and and and I know Mr Regan has told you this before you have to act as if it's not there right it's a your your your I just feel it's going to open the door to everybody coming with fence applic and we're making the fence application process easier for them so it's going to open the door we already heard I don't think this ordinance makes I don't think it makes it easier and I think the checklist just kind of simplified things so that you can get to a Judicial decision by the board yeah you know why do you need for example you know there was certain details there hydrology and things of that nature unnecessary right right and we we weeded some of those things out right because we're thinking of the budgets of the presidents and what it costs to make an application but we still want them to come here if they violate anything uh so it was kind of trying to balance the checklist yeah no and and and I think it's done a nice job and I think that F applicants shouldn't have to go through all that if I could take this opportunity I'll also share another sabis them okay write a little book on that W precedent you know I get asked a lot I teach classes and at a lot of my boards ask aren't we setting a precedent and I'll answer that this way if you grant a v now you grant vences for particular reasons and for particular site right and that can't be transferable if an applicant presents to you case that satisfies the statutory criteria then you're not setting a press if you are not accepting if you you're accepting testimony that is not consistent with and I'll give you an example I had an application in another town a woman um needed an F Flor ratio variance the reason being that she was having a child and needed more space the application was denied rightfully because that would not have met the statutory criteria had the board granted that and I think I I might have a little to do with that too had the and I was sympathetic everybody was empathetic but if you had done that you you might as well kiss your F ordinance goodbye you know so you the lesson is you know as long as you feel the statutory criteria satisfied you state that and I know Mr Regan will do a splendid job anouncing that in the resolution you're covered doesn't mean you can't be sued challenged whatever appreciate but that's that's that's kind of my perspective trying to aay my concerns but I just feel that sometimes we open the doors when when we do when we when we approve focus focus on the individual property and how the law applies and planning and and one sentence from generally speaking the granting of a Vance to one property owner does not create a precedent for the granting of a variance to other property since each variance must stand or fall on its own peculiar C right there he's the Ghost Rider the right the the thing that was interesting about the two two applicants that was very different was that the first one poio the fence was right up against the the property line whereas in the case of U Mr volan at the front of the house the fence was right at the front of the house front of the house set back considerably to me that's significant because you can see his front yard in its entirety it's open and it's also on the main road yeah not the C and I'm just wondering is is there anything in here regarding that like in other words should because we I think we I think we have the same requirement it's three feet whether it's at the curb line or it's at the at the front of the house I'm just wondering if if that's something that we should Recons well the only way if you read a it talks about you can you have to have void 75% open right but on a corner line you can have on the side street sense but not at the face of the house right it is that made it more appe that made Mr volo's more appealing least my perspective and and aside from the height which you granted relief for you can have a solid fence along that side street yeah yeah we have one on to Wolf Now by Pine Hill right that big white fence that was put up just recently interesting it also talks about a 20 foot setback for Gates we're starting to now address that in words setback for Gates yeah now we got that so have now we don't have anything that's smart the um well their gates are right on the street you know swing swings in I assum uh it swings in well to open it before he shows up otherwise he's Bing the sidewalk no I think he said he's in the driveway no no he's come from the street though he may be able to get his front wheels in the front of the car on the sidewalk which isn't there but then the gates right there it's it's not back it's a it's a kind of a u driveway so this will change that I mean going forward hey John I I had just a couple questions on I didn't go through it but I'll take a step okay but maybe they're inconsistencies unless I'm reading it wrong ahead on on letter J it says no fence over 3 ft in height does that now need to become four no that is an existing provision that's not being altered um I mean it's confusing now well one of the recommendations you can make is that it uh no no fence pursuant to this article and over 500 continuous feet in length and one that we could we could clarify by no fence permitted by this article shout you that yeah I think worry about don't worry about the height four no because it'll capture the three feet is the current one if you make that it that's that's a great idea and then um there was one other item that I I hope I read right is a typo um oh no the on the last page applications the first one talks about applications to the planning board but we don't need that if it meets the requirements right of of the new only for that's only if you have to file for Relief okay what the ordinance is if you read it says you have to get a zoning permit for the fence and then if you comply you get it okay so somewhere above it in that these are the exceptions if if you need relief here's the criteria yes and what is I put a fence up years ago and I almost think it was I provided I I had to pay a fee I'm sure but it was a handwritten joural what what is this going to do to the expense of the homeowners to actually even apply for a permit they they can apply for the permit we modified the checklist for variance applications to make it a little less owner you you know to to be able to present an application I mean but is the criteria to apply for the permit a lot more detailed under this ordinance to have a copy of their surve yeah copy of their survey and they can hand right in where the fence is going to be as long as they have a survey it shouldn't be more okay okay which is what actual Mr ban did and and and the zoning official will determine what what that what needs to be submitted and that would satisfy the zoning official for as a fence permit to make sure that it complied with all this what we're talking about is you need information as a board member when somebody comes before you yeah and they need to give us more so if you're asking for Relief you're going to have to pay the price or comply some towns make it really honorous to discourage applications as such you know part of the deal that's not what's Happening Here by the way I have a question go to the living fence yes how how does the ordinance of dra to the living fence it great question it talks about uh there's a there's they add a definition of of a of a the if you look at the last page 2554 amends the definitions plantings created by human effort consisting of the growth or placement of Hedges trees bushes or any other plants or any combination thereof creating a vision impairing barrier or boundary between property so now then you go so the first thing you do is you you define it because if you're going to regulate I always tell my towns you got to Define what you're regulating otherwise you're going to be Court trying to fight over interpretations then there's look at K uh the fenses are screening shall be what the what the ordinance does is it it it's not so much concerned about the height of the plantings as it is the setback because it could be whatever height it is if it's set back so if you look at K living Fen is as defined as I read to you our or screening shall be planted no Closer Than 3 feet from the center of the plant to the property line living fences shall be maintained and Ne neatly trimmed and shall not interfere with Corner Lots no living fence as per 2544 and that's the definition shall be planted within 20 ft of any and all roadway so you don't have any sight triangle distance problems uh but I didn't see a height limitation because we generally don't we don't regulate the height of plants except in the except that intersections for for um safe distance so effectively Mr fio could have got forgotten about the 6 foot iron fence he has there and put let his trees grow to a height of 30t could have could have planted a forest that we could John you're right because on I was just mentioning this earlier to to Mr zoo on old pan Road and Moser there are they have to be 30 foot high arites and they've grown so tall and so wide that you have to actually drive into the middle of the intersection just to get on shap in order the crossw there is shaped like this so that because of that right because you can't if you were trying to cross you can't see if you're riding your bike if you're driving so it's the only one I see right in town that has that vshape that so when there's an ordinance that has that does that mean that the owners of those homes have to do something about it go back what do that because a living fence is something that's constantly changing correct that that's one of the challenges of regulating it I think this this attempts to do that how old are the trees I remember when that house was built so that's probably 20 years old those Tre it's more than 20 years well I'm here 24 20 no I'm here 26 years and it was built a few years after we moved in so I'm just guessing probably late 9s that house was built cannot see what's the address on I it's it's hard to go back and and tell someone after soad tree but it is a dangerous condition every time I go into that corner I think I'm going to get hit trying to make a left on TW forget it you're like and you and you are in the intersection and forget it if there's a landscaping truck parked on that side of the road you can't see I'll defer to um to Mr re I I I've been told by lawers what is it it's so facto like after the fact it's very hard to do that it's a condition that exists right and there's really not much you can do about have to be brought get injured in an accident so only if you like do something with the property later in the meantime we have the house on the corner of of Orangeburg Road and Old pan Road I brought this up six months ago it's got the dilapidated six foot fence it looks horrible it's an an I saw to the community and I brought it up and nothing I done about it you're talking about the house o Orangeburg um coming out of Orangeburg to Northbound talking about the house on the left it's on the yes yes I know yes it has the walkway the sideway goes up yes that is um yes I we know to people yeah it's an nice I mean we not you know well carot make it look decent but they haven't even done that anyway let's let's make a decision on as to whether we should approve this or not you would you would make a report to the mayor coun on this yeah that you find that the ordinance is not inconsistent with the master plan okay that's I to do that would be the motion should we do a vote here to do yes all right does anybody want to make a motion regarding come on W you're on aoll make the motion send it to the mayor and councel with the edits that we discussed with the edits as discussed anybody second thank you Bob we a roll call or can do this you can do a roll call all right let's do a roll call Diane you got to change it right I hope sir good I can give it to you Christine and I can are you sending back reion it's just that one edit to take out over three feet in height and on on on letter J on letter J yeah and that there's not the ordinance is drafted is not inconsistent with the master okay um chair Mao yes Mr Alie yes Mr John yes Mr all yes Council Miss yes uh Council Bo can we vote to send it to ourselves oh I don't know oh say yes anyway Mr we got yes does he V to send it back to the Govern governing body that he's a part of he can he's a member of the app full authority to vot yes yeah and Mr crer yes all right anything else on the agenda okay if not let's one more time open the meeting to the public for motion to open to the meeting to the public second all in favor seeing no one motion to close to the public second all in favor motion to adjourn anybody second that we do we have a meeting in August we do we have and we have applications to 14 10 of them I don't know how you guys want to handle leave that open for Colonial manner to have the entire time to hopefully be done with it yes makes the most sense um does anyone can do it I mean there anybody there's nobody else say Sir is not going to September there a lot of other applications there are a lot we can only do certain so let's see what happens and then we can figure it out from there right now the only one we have on for a isoni you would think these applications would have come in in the winter now they're coming in now thinking they'll be able to build before winter