Wednesday April 10th 2024 planning foran all right in compliance with the open public meetings law notification of this meeting has been sent our official newspapers and other Publications circulated in the borrow volts pan and notice has been posted on the Bolton board at Burrow Hall please note fire exits located at the main entrance to the council chambers and in the rear of the council chambers let's stand and salute the flag a paraphrase my good friend I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all righty roll call chair maio here Mary Mr Kio here Mr here Mr young here councilwoman Mato here councilman Bo Mr here M Mr yeah all right open up the uh get a motion to open up the uh meetings to the public on non-agenda items motion second all in favor by anybody in the public have anything on that's not on the agenda to talk about okay motion to close motion to close second all in favor great environmental commission report uh yeah we're moving right along we have uh the tree sapling giveaway at the school for Arbor Day in a couple of weeks hooked on fishing is scheduled for Saturday June 1st at noon down at Babel Park hope to see you all there with your kids or grandkids and uh I heard the tree ordinance was passed so that's a good thing I think that is great so uh that is all for tonight wow keeping it short okay Council the aison report uh I will be reporting on behalf of Mr Boyce cannot be here um a few things uh some good news the budget has been approved and there was money in reserve so uh very fiscally responsible budget that uh still is providing what we think is the best for our residents um there's money that's been allocated for a new Oaks Park house uh we've been looking through grants and other sources so we're looking forward to that spring sports are starting opening day is Saturday April 27th um and that that should be a great day I um I think you're all familiar with uh the the young boy uh Stephan wilinsky who had the the the car accident last year he's throwing out the first pitch nice uh which is just real nice touch from the um you know ultan baseball association so shout out to them that'll be a real nice um uh regarding the traffic flow over by K Street Charles and Leonard uh after the incident that happened uh with the pedestrians that were struck we will be discussing as a mayor and Council again Monday at Monday night's meeting everyone from the public is welcome to attend we're discussing possibly closing K Street in in the morning or making it a oneway uh depending on uh looking into a traffic study as well for that so um that's something that we're actively looking at and also maybe appropriately so uh we are now in distracted driving month the ultan police uh have received a grant to uh enforce that and you see the signs all around town that say put down the phone head up things like that um and that's it thank you very much so quick question Oaks so what are they planning on doing there so there's you know that the house to you know yeah to the left yeah someone asked me oh is that a historical house I said no it just looks you know just looks like it could be a historical house but it's not we should run with it so the uh actually Bill Boyce is the one who rendered this he's been working with Council and BAGI on a rendering for uh and because it's Green Acres there's grant money there um working on uh a plan to have offices um at storage space but also public use like the kind of like The Pavilion at St St Point similar to that where there's outdoor seating but it's covered nice um so it's a really uh great use of space great use of uh grants that are available and do you think all the costs will be covered by grants uh I couldn't be the one I wouldn't be the one to ask for that but we're in discussion to see if we can go forward with that again because it's uh Green Acres you know we're Limited in what we can do but also if we follow what they're doing they'll give us you know great money for it so that's fantastic yeah so if any you know like I said Monday night's meeting we'll be discussing all those things and um you know if anyone has questions come 7:30 Monday night if uh you want to ask the mayor and councel thank you thank you are we expending the building I mean it's the footprint is going to stay the same or uh I I believe so uh because you're kind of limited with where that parking lot is uh you don't want to extend and take away any of the parking I can pass this around uh it's very you know it's in the infant stages I'd say of it but I I can pass us down if everyone wants to take a look at a very infant but you know I think it explains it visually uh and I'll pass that around to you um if you guys want to take a look sure but they're very excited about that CU they've been working on that for a while and it's making use of a space that's already there that we can't use that's in disrepair and you know I think it's I remember that property 20 years ago it was a disaster yeah so imagine we was the open space advisory committee we put that on the list to make it into a park so it's really come a long way and thank you for that because I know a lot of the residents and also the high school students have been making use of it so on behalf of the high school I say thank you exactly um take a quick peek at that yeah the the over the over build is the part that looks like it's going to be an expansion they can you see that the like the canopy uh we have a construction official report attached does anybody have any questions about it no one ever does but it's always forth asking all right um burrow engineer report B engineer is not here did he write anything or I fored you along his notes regarding the application just regarding the application okay absolutely all right I'm just catch up with my notes Here Financial secretary report so who's the backup Financial secretary budget $1,374 escrow $2,769 $2,769 56 Grant total of $4,140 6 respectfully submitted former acting backup whatever else what was that final total I'm sorry 4144 six all right do we have a motion motion second all in favor motion all in favor I okay okay approved all right uh let's see minutes to adopt February 14 2024 everybody have a copy of that it was in the package that Diane emailed out to us anybody have any comments make a motion approved as submitted second we can we can just do a I can just do all in favor right all in favor I I I okay great all right new business um we're not going to swear in M ludus but we are going to swear in Mr Kramer that'd be great okay John will you raise your right hand he probably have this committed to memory of so many he could probably tell you I State your full name I John do somly swear do Solly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and and Allegiance and allegiance to the same to the same and to the governments and to the governments established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will faithfully and I and that I will Faithfully impartially impartially have justly perform and justly perform all the duties all the duties of the office of planning board member of the office of planning board member of the burrow of alapan of the B of ultan according to the best of my ability so me good congratulations John I almost said mayor [Applause] welcome aboard thank you you sure you want to do this there will be times um Communications oh let's vote on the verges part we have a a resolution Professional Service resolution to approve the master plan contract yes so we received from a contract from John about a month so ago everybody's had the opportunity yeah it's a proposal to take a look at it February 21 we did get comments back I think they've all been answered they all minor comments um bottom line is $155,000 to give us what we need to do so uh I'd love to see a motion on this the motion I I have few you do have some yeah okay you have more comments yeah uh so I guess the first one I think was answered by Bob uh it's the competitive bids I don't think we need one we don't we don't it's a professional service yeah the second one I think in The Proposal there was a typo I think it says 15,000 but in they wrote 20,000 too yeah I remember that you had brought that up in your email if I remember that yeah that was but I think that was corrected wasn't it I me what I have is 15,000 total yeah well I don't have the Revis one but just you know pointing it out so also the third one is are we getting a new zone map that's a good question um we haven't updated the zoning map in Long there yeah there is one from 2022 the master plan or the re exam actually will have a l use plan map but not doesn't have a zoning map right it would be yeah with all I mean I don't think that's included I don't remember seeing that in his proposal unless you saw it yeah it was not but I wasn't sure because it says set set off tax maps I don't know if it's the same thing I don't think it is yeah I don't think proposal says tax maps that's different it's different tax maps I'll put a not to ask we can ask them I mean that it's not included in the proposal anyway so if this is something we decide we want to do it would be an add-on but it can't be significant yeah so we could always not going to be any drastic changes anyway yeah I also I looked the 2016 reexamination there was a map but it was it's called something differently land use PL so so you have like three labels so I don't know which is which I think something he can clarify land use plan is part of the master plan yes one of the elements yeah all right so we'll pose the question to him but that shouldn't unless somebody else has an objection they shouldn't hold us up on approving the current one does anybody else have any comments or questions second to the motion yeah you made a Mr lesie move you made a motion right anybody second that motion second okay I think we do a roll call yeah yes yes Mr yes Mr Dr yes Council misso yes Mr Eller yes Mr yes and Mr kman yes nice all right congratulations Mr Zabo and we should we won't be able to do it today but maybe at the next meeting we'll start to talk about what the plans are and and put a schule together forming a committee yeah yeah I've been a little LAX on that so I will Diane and I are brainstorming on that um okay all right resolutions oh no we have H another communication is the fence revision of the fence ordinance that's next oh that's the one we P that's the pushed off right John wants to be presio any questions is that poio no oh right yeah yeah thinks that it should be hired from 3 feet to 4 feet as the standard yeah so let's also the checklist should be change when it's simply a t variant and not another variant yeah thanks for reminding me yeah all the information was sent to you guys your your review and then you have any questions or whatever it'll be discussed on John's here at night yeah I don't know if anybody has any uh questions about it but it's pretty straightforward he thinks that our ordinance that shows the fences are 3 feet is very unusual he says that most towns have 4 feet and that uh you know fence supply places come in 4 foot length so we actually have to cut it down to get it down to three feet um we don't see a lot well those see one tonight but we don't see a lot of uh fence ordinance uh for variance application variances yeah maybe one a year one a year but he's making a recommendation for us to change it from 3 to 4 feet and then to put a checklist together which I think is a smart idea because it makes just make life easier for people they shouldn't have to go through the full motions of what we go through um just to get a fence approved so uh if you haven't looked at it take a look at what he sent over and we'll talk about it next month and we'll also get started on the master plan okay resolutions and ordinances we don't have any we don't have none wow all right next up I want to make sure I say your name right kodes kadash okay all right um that's the only application we have tonight 102 philis Drive sorry can you just um say that was going to you know what I'll do that now we have a letter from uh the attorney for Mr Po requesting that we announce that the public hearing on this application which had been scheduled for March 13th and then was not heard last mon that this is to confirm that the matter will be carried to May 8th that no an appropriate Public Announcement will be made and when we're doing that now and no further public notice will be provided so if anyone's appearing tonight on behalf of the poio application 27 Greenwoods Road Block 101 to that matter will be carried to May 8 all righty Dian you'll reflect that in the minutes thank you okay I need to swear you when you raise your right hand you swear or affirm that the testimony you will given in this proceeding shall be yourself for the record you state your full name please and spell your last name Victoria kadash k h o d o s h thank you and you are the applicant in this matter is that correct that is correct okay I noticed that you submitted or we receiv received a uh a survey um which sketches the proposed fencing yeah um would you like us to mark that as an exhibit I think you want that done that would be we'll call that A1 and it's a survey of the property lot 4.01 lot 14.01 dated June 20th 2015 it's been revised to reflect uh notes pertaining to the proposed fencing which you seek to have the board approved okay um I also at least have in my file a uh a picture or a photograph of a I guess it's a RW iron fence yeah do you want us to mark that too is that the okay let's mark that as a two and it's a 4ft style 202 4T style 202 fence this is the picture but it also reflects that it's available in six foot size you're seeking to do six feet correct okay but it'll be the same design and style absolutely except 2 feet high yes okay okay that's all I have in terms of questions all right but uh this is a little unusual so what do we yeah do perhaps you could tell us why you want to put in a six foot high fence course would it be okay if I read through this statement sure sure yeah to make sure I didn't forget any points that I wanted to make okay so um members of the ultan planning board we here today to ask ask you to consider and approve our variance application for the installation of a fence in our property at 102 Phyllis Drive ultan uh 102 Phyllis Drive is a corner property and according to the borrow ordinance 25573 a a fence greater than 3 ft above normal grade cannot be erected between the dwelling and the roadway a portion of the fence we're looking to install falls under the said ordinance and we are seeking a variance approval to erect a six foot Pence we are looking to enclose our property with a six foot fence for Safety and Security reasons as the property is in close proximity to the northern Valley alapan high school and is subject to heavy aut and food traffic especially during High School events defense will allow for additional security of our private residents without negatively impacting the public goods of the community and any road visibility um some of the key points to consider in your decision is that the portion of the fence that requires variance approval will be a seethrough aluminum construction the portion of the fence that requires variance approval will be erected behind the existing line of Arbor VY trees the existing HRA of Arbor VY trees along Charles Place will remain the fence will be erected on the side of the house behind the trees not on the side of the road and the fence will be approximately 70 ft from the intersection not obstructing view from any direction of the traffic and given the above stated conditions we believe that such variants can be approved without substantial detriment to the public good and uh still be within the SP of the zoning ordinance I'm just looking at the exhibit A1 the only section of the fence that will exceed that will exceed the 3 ft or exceed the require the variance for the 60 is the area highlighted in deep red that is correct okay that's why I wanted to present that um drawing to you to show that even though we're enclosing the entire entire backyard and the fence only that tiny portion requires a variance but because of between the the house and the roadway that is correct so why does that not require right there it's not on the corner above the street there's no Street back there okay that's I guess a neighboring property that is correct so as long as it's at at the face of the house or further back right it doesn't have to be 3 fet right but if it's facing the street if it's from the front of the house to the street yeah okay and then between the building and front property line if an interior lot which is in between the building and the front and side property line of a corner lot no fence over 3 ft above the normal grade shall be erected except the L SS mhm okay so you would be limited in this area to 3 ft because of it's location and that's interesting over here then it's legal well in that area over there no but even on the the SP of the street here is yeah because it's not the house is not there oh I see the logic it's it carries the line yeah exactly ah so it's a literal interpretation you really yeah yeah the right side has to be good to pick that up Charles well you picked that you you recognized that it was aligned with the house interesting so that's how it's written yeah yeah that's how the ordinance is right so how many feet roughly would you say a fence um requires a variance 3T yeah oh gosh I don't let me open up my copy of the drawing like it's 35 415 13 four and five I think it's about 60 ft yeah about yeah close to 60 and if you note most of it is actually along the driveway right and everywhere where we're looking to put up the fence there are currently existing trees as you can see the Green Giant uh on the pictures that I've submitted as part of the application you could see that they're already trees so there going to be and there is a driveway before the intersection so the fence would be nowhere near the intersection it's actually as I stated it's about 70 ft away so regardless of the direction the traffic is coming from there will be absolutely no obstruction of any portion of the intersection you say 70 ft you mean 70 ft from the intersection of from the right of way of Charles place or Phyllis drive and Charles Place the intersection yes the two streets M so the so I just want to re re understand what you just said this picture is a good picture so the fence is going to be in front of that behind it's going be behind it so you're not even going to see see it even though not even going to see it correct got it yeah we have we have photos I'm wondering if you have these marked yeah yeah why don't we do that one two three I have six seven photos right seven photos I'm going to Mark these as exhibit a exhibit a23 I think yeah right A1 was the survey A2 was where you style effect will be 83 seven they show the intersection from every angle trees w't there okay same differ so in your your intention is to keep the green Giants absolutely is the fence going to be in front or behind behind it will be on the side of our backyard on the side of the street and I can submit a copy of the testimony like so if if any of those green Giants died um if we required you to replace them in order to get the fence approval would you agree to that let's say one died I don't see a problem with that it would be in my of approval the plantings will obscure the the six foot fence yes yeah okay okay yes why don't we open it up to the group let me one comment if I may I mean we just passing you know ordinance for offense do you consider like putting four foot fence instead of six you will be in compliance anyway I would just like it to be uniform if we're already going to be investing into having the construction I would prefer there to be uniform height of the fence because there's currently an existing fence between us and our neighbors that is 6 foot high um so it would just make more sense suggestion a fair question all right Tom yes uh no questions Christine uh yeah I just have a question uh you had referenced the the the traffic during High School events I also want to ask during do you notice it during the morning hours at drop off and pick up as well or is it more just the it's more during the event because if it's a traffic it doesn't uh really give me any concerns of Safety and Security except for you know sometimes cars speed during that intersection but fence is not going to help one way or another around it but during events a lot of people parking on our street and that's I would prefer to have a priv privacy person that that's all I wanted to know is did you feel that it was also during the day as well U not really again because during the day it's mostly passed through it's a people are not lingering there uh but during the events because people park there all the time there is sometimes a bit of a lingering a bit of a chatting after football games no that's something that's that I'm asking because it's come up at mayor and Council and uh we are looking to possibly even put in a stop sign at um on that in action at the yes is that what it is right no not that one the the one there is one there the one or no one there and then also by uh where the back gate is right right because I'm like a block away from the back gate I think it might be helpful because we definitely see some cars speed by I have uh three boys two of them are still young enough to play basketball in the driveway and I would not let them play there by themselves I I would have to be there because there's a lot of traffic and some cars are speeding there okay and but you were saying more it's more of The Pedestrian walk you know walking Park parking walking littering we' noted all those some the games run late some of the events run late uh I know I'm usually there better for with all right thank you for answering that I just wanted to know thank you Dan um all I would say is I think in the past we it's probably five or six years ago we had another one of these in uh on Charles place and we denied it because it was a solid PVC fence came back right bani I think it was maybe fani you're better wow Bob well it came back yeah it was kind of controversal that is correct and your point is that there's that and whether or not the trees were there you're still far back behind the uh the whole point of the ordinance during that whole debate was because of visual for oncoming traffic and kids play and anything like that so all I would point out is that even if you didn't have the trees there The View on traffic you'd still you still have the dwelling in the way anyway so it it wouldn't really make a difference in that that is correct the difference between the property that you are describing is their fence is really close to the intersection on my property if you can see on the survey there's a driveway that's the point of making exactly I think the trees weren't there I think this would be reasonable it would be a reasonable thing to do anyway there is absolutely no obstruction from any direction of the traffic I think I think it's good that that the planting m one trees yeah right I agree we should keep them but I'm just making the point that right but um Mr even if the trees were not there or if they were it's almost irrelevant because of the driveway because there's still driveway a pretty large one in between the tree line and the house is in the way of most of the view till you get further forward yeah anything else Dan that's it Mr Alie no we good Mr thean yeah no uh my question was already asked uh which was you know that stand of uh trees there is uh pretty pretty robust you're not going to see any tree fence behind it um but again um to Mr Ban's point if it was a 4-foot fence it would meet the letter of the law here and we wouldn't be talking about it the ordinance that we're planning to approve we haven't approved it yet they not enforc oh this so this is it's still 3et right now no it's still three okay having the plantings there why I've been constantly talking about it it helps us with the negative criteria yeah okay in terms of any impairment of the Zone point because def fence is really going to be obscured well right exactly and and and so it would be I mean I'd be more in favor of this I think I've already heard it from the applicant that you know if a tree was were to die it would be replaced so I will make that a condition if that's the bo I think that's what we're hearing so yeah and it's a see through fence yeah do da have anything else no Mr Kramer yeah I sh Mr concerns and Mr KS as well U coordinance now reach 3et we're actually done six yeah U I would be more inclined to CL however I do understand the screening issue that's that's great that's it would be a harder call if you didn't have the pointings definitely no and I appreciate that um yeah this is you know for such a simple little uh application this is a little complicated um you know it's funny we we have a home on on the corner around the block where I am it's on Moser and Orangeburg road that there are green Giants that must be 40t tall there and they completely you can't go to the corner and make a turn without edging out into the street and it's funny that we have this ordinance about fences not being more than 3 feet high but yet we have planting that is 30 or 40 feet high that obscures the road we have nothing that that prevents that um so I get that I understand the concern about it and we probably need to be a little bit more diligent maybe we need to pass something on that uh but under these circumstances because of the fence being seethrough being behind the plant the agreement that the planting would be replaced if it died you I support this so is there anything else we should do before we take a vote open the public open the public okay can we have a motion to open this to the public motion second all in favor I I public any comments no okay motion to close motion to close second all in favor I all righty any other closing thoughts before we take a vote yeah can have any you have any closing no okay Charlie just to your point about the trees yeah there is no ordinance however I live on a corner property and there was you know some issues with you know visibility and sight distance there are other sections in the ordinance that talks about you know visibility visibility it doesn't talk about plantings per se but talks about if it's if interfere with you know the site distance you know the town or the county may have some rights to treatment that's exactly what what happen oldan road is a county road right yes well depends where yeah but there is something in one of the existing tree ordinances about unobstructed views from distance the triangle site yes exactly and and that corner is not the only one it's just the one I see all the time so there are plenty of Corners that are like that that are much more interfered than than by offense all right does anybody want to make a motion for this I make a motion that we approve it with the condition of that the tree dyes and replace it replace same type and size and and in quality and we're it's this fence the specific fence is what you're planning on using the one that's shown okay yeah on the uh we'll make sure that's part of the ordinance style 202 except be6 feet okay and then did you second it Dan I just want to add one more condition actually just if in the event down the road if after you've sold the house or anything these these all stay with the property even if you're not in there anymore it make it that if the planting wasn't uh maintained that it would revert to what whatever the ordinance is resolu or four the resolution uh runs with the land yeah it's irrespective of ownership correct that's what I'm saying so I'm just I'm not pointing this at you I'm saying anything down the road if the plan thing wasn't maintained the property owner would be required to bring it in compliance with the ordinance yeah just as a as a caution if you sell the house sometime down the wrote you'll be getting a copy of the resolution give it to your buyer yeah you don't want to be accused of holding information back understood okay thank you then I'll second it second Dan second it all right roll call Mario yes Mr yes Mr yes Jun yes councilwoman misso yes Mr Eller yes Mr yes C yes congratulations congratulations Thank you very much I hope that was one of the easier things you did today I can't say that but thank you very much you can teach some of the attorneys how to do it that was easier for us St was very good yes concise sucessful she got the negative criteria in there too did I was impressed by I noticed that at the end because I was reading I was reading burgess's report that he gave us and I'm like how is she going to and then she brought that in I'm like good okay impress good job thank you very much may I ask a question then in terms of the next steps can I go ahead and contract for the fense to be put in you have your approval tonight the there'll be a memorializing resolution at the May meeting which details the conditions and all the board's findings and so I cannot engage anybody to build you can you can I think I might just hold off until the resolution's adopted for doing any construction installation okay so yeah you should be aware that from the time the resolution's adopted which will be in May a few days later Diane publishes a legal notice of the decision someone could appeal that decision within 45 days I mean it's unlikely because no one's here the application but just to be aware of that also will you get the can you get the permit until the resolution confirmed we need the permit too uh no you can't even get the permit until that point can't the permit until Bob gets the actual resolution and you have start with the part that did not beire variance or no because there's you're probably going to need just one permit I mean you have to have multiple permits you could ask you could ask the construction if he'll issue you a partial permit and you would just leave that 60 ft until the res because there's the other side of the house multiple I can start with the other side of house okay I'll just have to instruct them that they have to apply for a partial permit for just if he's willing to issue that that's his that's his prerogative your FS will be up and nice by the 4th of July thank you very much okay congratul appreciate your consideration thank you congratulations all righty um public opportunity again on non-agenda items things may have changed since motion all favor minutes anybody from the public have anything that's not on the agenda to talk about motion motion to close second all in favor any other business to talk about before we close Mo motion to close the Mee okay next month won't be have a second yeah what do we have next month we haveo Colonial Manor next month is going to be horrible bring dinner yeah bring dinner I may take that day off get the