##VIDEO ID:-TgsY80K-I8## uh we will still welcome you glad you are here um I'm going to call the meeting to order it  is right at 7 p.m on September 18th 2024 this is the second regular City commission meeting uh in  commission Chambers for the city of Orman Beach for the month of September and curiously enough  because of the law we normally meet the first and 3D Tuesdays but because Valia County does their  budget hearings on the 1st and Tuesday this month we're required to have our meeting on a different  day so Wednesday Wednesday it is but uh you all found out about it and we're able to be here so  thank you and uh we'll get we'll get to it I want to introduce the folks who are sitting up in front  of you this evening uh but first I hope you felt welcomed when you came in our finance director  Kelly Maguire and our assistant Finance director Chris B served as the greeters this evening  they are our multi-year award-winning finance and budget team and we're proud to have them  under Joyce's uh Direction and Leadership if you need a card to speak on any item uh see  Kelly she'll get you uh filled out or Chris and get you in the queue to speak and uh we'll do  the introductions now to my right your left are recording secretary Taylor Locker City  Clerks Susan daus our commissioner from Zone one Lorie talland good evening everyone and welcome  commissioner from zone two Travis Sergeant good evening and welcome to my left and your right  commissioner from zone three Susan persus good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome then we  have our Deputy Mayor and zone four commissioner Harold bryley good evening everyone and welcome  city manager Joyce Shanahan assistant City managers uh Shan Finley and Claire Whitley  somewhere I saw her um she's running an errand okay and then City attorney Randy Hayes and then  way to my left and way to your right we have the chiefs with us again tonight police chief  Jesse Godfrey and fire chief Howard Bailey for those of you listening online I'm Mayor  Bill Partington at this time if you would please silence your cell phones rise for the invocation  given tonight by father Roy Allison from St James Episcopal Church followed by the Pledge of Allegiance let us pray almighty God and Heavenly Father we thank you for this be beautiful city  of Orman Beach we pray for our Mayor Bill for our City commissioners for Lori Travis Susan  and Harold we pray for our City Commissioner our Deputy Mayor we pray for Joyce our city manager  and Brandy our City attorney we pray for their commitment to serve the people and businesses  of this great community may the discussions and decisions made here tonight provide for the needs  of our community and may they bring you honor and Glory pour out your blessings of Peace protection  and provision for our First Responders our city employees our Civic leaders and for all who live  and work in this great City help us to Break Down The Walls of violence hatred and racis  ISM and fill our hearts with care compassion and love for all people we thank you Lord God  for our many blessings that you provide us and we ask that you would guide us this night and  always to direct us to use those blessings and to be a blessing to others and we pray this and  I pray this in Jesus name amen amen pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to  the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right this is presentations and proclamations it really is the best part of the meeting in a  community like Orman Beach an incredible City uh with tremendous leadership from our staff and uh  policy direction from the city commission we wouldn't be so wonderful if we didn't have  wonderful residents and then wonderful elected officials above us that helped us accomplish the  goals that we want to accomplish so tonight I get the opportunity to recognize uh our  Florida legislators these are individuals who do incredible work uh it's extremely difficult  uh they're not paid very much honestly I think it's $29,000 a year uh it upends their lives  and the fact that they're back and forth from Tallahassee multiple times uh in a month and then  uh even though they're up there for two months out of the year they come home to the district on  weekends and so they're dealing you know we think we deal with a lot of issues commission and we do  uh but go to a legislative uh delegation meeting someday they're usually uh held  anywhere from November to February sit there from 8:00 in the morning till 6:00 in the evening and  listen to the hundreds of people who come and present different issue after different issue  and they're not easy issues they're complex issues uh these folks deal with that on all of our behalf  and so we're grateful for that and we're going to government uh doesn't always do the best job  of of stopping to thank and recognize the people who are involved we're going to do  that tonight we're going to stop and recognize uh some folks I'm going to call them up and  present them with a plaque first uh I think it's safe to uh identify our representative  leak as the dean at this point of the Bia County legislative delegation he's been here for eight years he made that commitment nine and a half years ago and he kept it he's been  here for the full eight years and we're hoping uh he's going to be continuing to  serve US Representative Lee come on up he's also our hometown hero and it's an  honor to present you uh on behalf of the city of Orman Beach its residents  and visit visitors uh it's with great honor and appreciation that we recognize you for  your steadfast advocacy and support for our beautiful city and Community thank you very much next up uh on behalf of Representative Chase traymont who is in the district just  to the south of us but is part of our Valia County legislative delegation  Chase my understanding is in Tallahassee he got called back had to go uh last night but  on his behalf is his legislative Aid Duncan Dem Marsh on behalf of Representative Chase traymont and then uh a little bit to the west of us maybe Southwest  is representative Webster Barnaby and on his behalf this evening we have Drake Wyman Drake and then uh Senator Wright who is uh actually our Senator as well here in  Orman Beach he covers part of Orman Beach uh and then primarily is to the south of  us we have Miss Charlene Gagner on his behalf senior legislative age thank you all all right next uh is also a very special presentation is  Evelyn robustini in the house there she is Evelyn is our victim Advocate yes Evelyn is retiring oh and nobody uh nobody asked my permission I'll tell you  that right not that you have to not that you have to uh she has been an amazing Advocate  uh and such a hard worker in our Police Department you see some of the folks who  are here lined up in the back of the room tonight to honor her and recognize her um Evelyn you know some people retire and they Wonder did I do enough was I was I there enough  did I make an impact you never have to wonder that and I think that's fantastic you uh can  enjoy your retirement you can do whatever you want to do you can still come back and volunteer with  us if you want just a suggestion but you don't have to I mean you sleep well at night knowing  that you've given it your all and you've helped hundreds thousand people which is which is just  incredible so I'm honored to present you with a proclamation and I'm going to read it have you  hold it and then we're going to get you and your family up for a picture with everybody whereas  Evelyn rustin's Journey began in Miami Beach Florida before she made Flagler County her home  in 1991 she pursued her studies at Daytona State College earning an associate of science degree in  paralal studies since 2004 Evelyn has dedicated herself to advocating for victims and whereas  Evelyn's distinguished career as a victim Advocate began with the state attorney's office where she  served for 12 years prior to joining the city of Orman Beach in 2016 her exceptional work has been  recognized with multiple accolades including victim advocate of the year and volunteer of  the Year her unwavering commitment to ensuring victim's rights are upheld heard and treated with  respect has been significant in rebuilding trust in the criminal justice and Social Service systems  and whereas Evelyn has actively contributed to a variety of organizations including serving  as vice president of the victim Services Coalition of the 7th judicial circuit and  participating on the board of Crim Stoppers the domestic violence advisory committee the  human trafficking Force sexual assault Response Team the community Christmas club and Bikers  Against Child Abuse through these roles she has demonstrated a dedication to Justice and  positively impacted our community and whereas today we celebrate Evelyn rustin's retirement  and express our deepest gratitude for her tireless service to the Orman Beach Community we extend our  heartfelt congratulations and best wishes as she embarks on this new chapter which promises more  cherished moments with her husband three children eight grandchildren and three great grandchildren  Evelyn will also enjoy her passions for gardening and crafting including creating beautiful for  special occasions now therefore based on all of that I bill Partington along with  the entire Orman Beach City commission do hereby Proclaim today September 18th 2024 as a day to  honor and recognize Evelyn in the city of Orman Beach and encourage All City staff and residents  to join me in Wishing Evelyn the very best in her well-deserved retirement congratulations W you were entitled to and Evelyn there's a little bit more we always  say but wait there's more uh because of your absolute kindness your compassion to others  uh the way your caring show it's my honor to present you with a key to the city of Orman Beach I'll let you hold that she's running out of hands and we're going to get a picture watch a big great if we can to have the officers all the officers that's awesome squish thank you I wrote some excuse me for being emotional first I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to Mayor Partington and the City of  Orman Beach all the Commissioners my chief for the wonderful Proclamation truly means  a lot to me as I stand here tonight I reflect on nearly nine incredible years as a victim advate  with Orman Beach Police Department it's been a journey filled with challenges growth and  Unforgettable moments I had the privilege of working alongside some of the most dedicated  individuals who share a commitment to making our community a safer place and they're all  here tonight I want to extend a special thank you to my colleagues your support has made my work not  only meaningful but also a joy every day together we've made a difference in countless lives I hope  the impact of our efforts continues to resonate in the city of Orman Beach this role has taught me  invaluable lessons about compassion resiliency and importance of advocacy I've grown both personally  and professionally and I will carry these lessons with me into the new chapter of my life  looking ahead I'm excited about retirement What retirement holds whether spending more time with  family pursuing new hobbies or simply enjoying life at a slower Pace I will always cherish the  memories and friendships I have made with all of you thank you once again for your support  and encouragement I wish the department and this wonderful Community all the best in the future going to do one more picture all right and I'd be remiss if I didn't call Representative Le back up uh we have a key to  the city for you representative uh like I said Tom is ours we consider him ours he's  Orman Beach born and bred and he did has done so much for us in the last 8 years I  can't begin to uh start rattling rattling things off whether it was the US1 and 95 interchange uh  things that make a direct impact and will make a direct impact on our daily lives whether it was  the special event zones during uh special events on the beach side keep us all safe and help our  officers with enforcement um I could go on and on we could be here all night but I wanted to  specifically present that to you thank you and uh we look forward to continued success for you when people talk will you remind to speak into the mic we couldn't hear last time aright we are now on uh item five the adoption of the fiscal year 24-25 millage rates  and budget uh I'll ask for your forgiveness in advance I have a lot of stuff that I need to need  to read here but uh first I'm going to open the public hearings and ask the clerk to read 5A by  title only resolution number 2024-146 a resolution adopting final millage rates to be levied for fiscal  year 2024-2025 directing certification expressing legislative intent and setting forth an effective  date this is resolution number 2024-146 read by title only thank you Susan per Florida Statute  I'm required to state that the final millage rate for the city of Ormond Beach necessary to fund the  fiscal year 2024-2025 budget is 4.0960 mills this rate is 12.82% above the roll back rate of 3.6305 mills the final debt service millage is 0.065 for the 2010 General Obligation Bond Syncing Fund this  is a public hearing are there any members of the public who wish to speak or ask questions prior to  adoption of the final millage rate and Madam Clerk I do have one card I believe yes it's Sean Daly good evening ladies and gentlemen um my name is Sean Daly I live in the North Brook subdivision  I to am Ormond born and bred have been here my entire life um served a number of years with Mr.  Briley on various boards in the city development review uh environmental board planning board um  I'm here tonight and I haven't been here in years and I can't say I've missed it but uh  um and I can't say most of you miss me either so but the bottom line is I'm here because for the  second year in a row there's been a tax increase and you know in Ormond we're not used to that um  especially if you remember Nick Fortunato we were never used to that we never went above roll back  with Nick Fortunato now I'm sure what you all are doing is because there's a lot of things that need to  be paid for and that's not what I'm here to talk about what I'm here to talk about is the fact that  that I'm you'll also know 10A I'm here to talk on which is the airport fund years ago there was  a big brewhaha in this city about noise abatement in the airport and one of the things that came up  then was the fact that even then that's more than 10 years ago there was a huge amount owed by the  airport to the general fund huge amount was like a half million dollars then I don't know what it is now  for which the city has not received a penny in interest has never been paid back now I'm finally  at at that point in time at one of the various meetings that we went to my suggestion was that  we have landing fees for people who utilize the airport so that we could pay back that money to  the general fund and if we had done that maybe at least one of these tax increases could have been  avoided I'm certain if we had just charged a few percent interest a lot of money could be generated now  I know that it's coming up again on 10A and I'm going to be up again to talk about it then but  I'm very verbose and we only get three minutes so I thought I'd since it come up I it going to come  up twice um but recognize I have nothing against the airport I will point out I've been here long  enough to remember when there was a survey done by the City of Ormond Beach about the various services  that the city provided and having the citizens rank those services the airport came in dead last  and there's a reason it doesn't serve a great percentage of citizens here does it provide a  valid function yes do I have a problem with the airport itself no but I have a problem with the  way the airport has become and I certainly have a problem with general revenue funds subsidizing it when there is a perfectly viable Revenue source and see I told you I'd use it by 3 minutes  alright we'll see you in a little bit thank you Sean um any other cards Susan no thank you I just  need a motion in a second to adop the final millage rates thank you uh I heard the motion  from Deputy Mayor Briley second from Commissioner Tolland the final operating millage of 4.0960 mills is 12.82% above the rolled back millage rate of 3.6305 mills the resolution also includes adoption  of the final debt service millage rate of 0.065 for the 2010 General Obligation Bond Sinking Fund  please call the vote Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Mayor Partington yes the final operating millage rate is set at 4.0960 mills which is 12.82% above the rolled back millage rate of 3.6305 mills 5B Ordinance number  2024-25 an ordinance adopting the annual budget for the 2024-2025 fiscal year beginning October  1, 2024 and ending September 30, 2025 repealing all inconsistent ordinances or parts thereof and  setting forth an effective date this is the second reading of ordinance number 2024-25 read by title  only thank you I just need a motion and a second I move approval of Ordinance number 2024-25 second  moved and seconded any discussion commission please call the vote to adopt the budget of $131,976,868 Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner  Tolland yes Mayor Partington yes and uh do I hear any objection to closing the public  hearing hearing none the public hearing is closed and we will go to audience remarks  and tonight we start with Cindy Costa when you make your audience remarks if  you'll direct your comments to me come on up and uh you'll have three minutes  and if you would please speak uh uh directly into the microphone thank you hi everybody I'm concerned about North Beach Street between Overbrook and Heather we have a  very large tree growing close to the road and the roots have lifted the road so when you're driving  and you go over it kind of it tilts you into the oncoming traffic and this is going north if that  doesn't get resolved there's no markings to even warn anybody that there's that's coming up so I  would like to have somebody look into it thank you yep we'll make sure and I'll have uh one of our  staff give you a card just so you can follow up okay as well y thank you thank you Alicia Simmons good evening good evening hi Mayor Commissioners thank you for this opportunity to talk to you  tonight my name is Alicia Simmons and I am wearing three hats I'm a long timer commercial  real estate broker for over 35 years here in the State of Florida and I'm a business and  Management Consultant and I'm a tennis player and I'm here to request a $300,000 grant from  your Daytona Beach Racing and Rec Center um fund for the um OBTC Ormond Beach Tennis Center which  is one of the gems in your community I'm on I'm here on behalf of Trista she's your um Tennis  Director and also inducted into the Hall of Fame of Tennis at Brown University the reason this is  so important is this location is such a historic hall landmark for y'all it's part of the casements  and half a mile and a half to the beach and what we're wanting to do with the funds is to upgrade  the tennis courts the clay it it's requiring 40 tons of clay um laser resurfacing to make it  really state-of-the-art and lights transitioning the lights to LED and desperately needed showers  and so after matches the players can refresh themselves and then go out to the area which is  full of um restaurants shops and really boosting your economy and so I'm here again um to ask all  of you to just look at this as not as investment into the facility but as an investment to your  community because it'll attract more tourism and visitors who can explore on foot this surrounding  area and so thank you again and I hope you take this request um favorably and I urge all of you  to come out to see what Trista has done because in just six months since she's been awarded the  contract she has been spent $37,000 of her own money attracted and served 5,100 tennis players  and has two teams in GBTL and we're going to start another team for the USTA in January and so she has  done a dynamic job with the Junior Academy and she's got she's re recreated the uh Pro Shop into  a learning facility to teach strategy and and tennis tactics to the kids and so it's just a  great vibe so I urge all of you to to come out and continue to build on what she's already done with  this grant thank you thank you and last uh for audience comments but not least is Connie Colby good evening Connie Colby 108 Robo Lane Ormond Beach um tonight I like to um talk about Central  Park especially in um Hammock Lane area um while the parks were developed a while ago there were  different expectations as to how they were going to be used mostly it's like walking tennis um  picnicking fishing those kind of activities since then kids have learned to use different  kind of things like motorized vehicles um some of them are like motor bicycles more bigger than  bicycles smaller than a real motorcycle and um in our area especially we have a couple of big  fields one of the fields is currently being used as a motocross facility where especially one kid  he rides around every every evening about 5:30 6 o'clock and that property's gotten pretty wet  last time I think we just approved some money for park um service for keeping the property  looking nice too um I don't think that's one of the reasons that the park is supposed to  be used for um but I couldn't find anything online as to exactly what it's supposed to  be used for um so I would like to think that something like that might be looked at also  especially around holiday times a lot of the kids get drone airplanes or what are those  things are flying all around and there's little kids around that they don't really know how to use  them properly so people can get hurt with those as well um as far as the um motorcycle things  maybe they could do something like that up by the airport there's more land up there it wouldn't  bother probably as many people not that it's it's not really noise- wise bothering anybody but it's  still destroying the property the other thing is the code violations um where you can't report  anything anonymously anymore it's deteriorating our neighborhoods and I don't know what the answer  is to that but we have things going on now like people parking their campers in their yards boats  um one neighbor has five three adult children living home they have five vehicles and they've  got they're parking all over their yards and I'm thinking of the new places that want to put little  stub driveways in there that are going to have three three bedrooms and grown kids they're going  to have not enough driveways to put their cars in to start with so they'll be all over the streets um that pro that problem is the state problem I don't know how they're going  to resolve that Mr. Leek still here maybe he can do something about that thank you thank you  Connie alright we uh Commission will now go to approval of the minutes these are  from September 4th 2024 they've been sent to the Commission for review also posted to the city's  website any additions deletions or corrections move approval second second moved and seconded  all those in favor say I I I oppose like sign and we'll show that passing unanimously we're  now on the consent agenda the action proposed is stated for each item on the consent agenda  and unless a commissioner removes an item no discussion on individual items will occur  and a single motion will approve all items does any member of the Commission wish to pull any  agenda items Deputy Mayor Briley Mr. Mayor I'd like to pull item 8H please 8H anyone else I move approval  of the consent agenda minus 8H second please call a vote Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner  Briley yes Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Mayor Partington yes 8H resolution number 2024-157 a resolution authorizing the execution of an agreement for services between the city  and Halifax Humane Society Inc and setting forth an effective date this is resolution  number 2024-157 read by title only thank you I have one card for 8H um and that's Connie Colby sorry um Connie Colby 108 Robo Lane um in our neighborhood we have been overrun  with feral cats they are all over um when I'm reading the contract that you have it  does not provide for anything other than um returning the cat picking the cats up  having them neutered and returning them to the place where they were brought back so these cats  are being brought back to our neighborhood um they're cute little kittens but they grow up  to be cats and we have a lot of problem with oh the cat urine um these cats are going to live probably for  18 years and when they're brought back we're going to have all of these cats all over our  neighborhood for 18 years doing what they do um I am don't know if there's any other way you can  handle that particular part of your contract as far as returning them to the neighborhood  they're they're not pets to anybody some of them are sitting on people's car tops some of  them are under sheds and they're just roaming all over the place um and they just keep being  more prolific so if you can think of anything else we would really appreciate it thank you thank you Connie and Mr. Mayor that's why I pulled that out Ms. Colby had asked if we could have that pulled and I guess um I guess I would refer to our City Manager I don't know if there's  anything we can do I mean I know the Humane Society has a TNL or trap and release TNR  a uh trap and release and generally they are released back to the neighborhood that they  came from um I can ask Captain Roos to come forward and and speak about that but um they  are neutered when they um are trapped so they won't be procreating in that instance so fortunately or unfortunately the Humane Society does not like to euthanize animals so they  came up with the trap neuter release of the TNR program probably about a decade ago um a  domestic cat will live to be 18 or 20 years old wild cats don't live nearly that long their life  spans way less than that um and they decided that at some point in time the best thing was  to bring the cats back to where they came from something that's reasonably for them you know  to to live out their life but um this is what we've been doing for about a decade at least  and uh there's a better plan we'd more happy to look at it do you think I don't know Ms. Colby's relation to to uh her geographic location to Central Park and I'm thinking this may  be where a lot of those cats are coming from we don't actually have a cat colony in that area so  I don't know that um you know there could be you know stray cats in that area but as far  as a cat colony there's not one there thank you sir thank you see I think it makes sense that we  take a look at the contract and see if there's something else we can do I'd be willing to do  that I think going forward there's nothing wrong with that Joyce staff can do that at any time right renegotiate next year it was just you know this is just the beginning of  the contract but we can start discussions with them to look at that issue I don't know  I don't know that we have to wait a whole year I mean if they uh you know if you work something out  in three months and you want to bring it back to the Commission you can certainly do that yep I have  no idea what the answer would be right off the bat but um certainly verifying what the situation  is I think would be critical to start and uh going going from there it's no I just wanted  to say I know the Humane Society is you know willing to come take a look and check it out  they um are you know they want to take care of animals as much as possible so I think that  might be one of the first things is have them go take a look some information for you thank  you and one more one more comment you know maybe it can be data driven as well we can  find out how many actual cats we are talking about you know if and that may merit whether  we need to make any changes or not that sounds good all right Commission that is the consent  agenda we're going to move to public hearings but before before I do do any Commissioners wish to  comment on any of the consent we vote on oh did we not vote I'm sorry I'll move approval of 8H thank  you second moved and seconded please call the vote on 8h Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner  Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Mayor Partington yes and Commissioner  Sargent for comments thank you Mr. Mayor I'd like to just comment on um I consent item I um Officer  Bakaysa who's one of our officers who passed in line of duty um this is the final um step in  that to provide his family relief with the uh closing of the workers comp uh claim so just  like to thank staff and everyone for everything that's uh we've been able to get done through the  pension and through closing out his claim so and thank you to his family great anyone else  Commission I just wanted to talk about 8C for a second which uh you know Representative Leek  was here earlier um it's the water reclamation facility ultraviolet disinfection conversion  project uh and that was a few million dollars which we participate in but we didn't have to  carry the full weight of that uh bill because of the fact that we had Representatives who  were willing to work with us and that's good for our residents it's good for the environment and uh  kind of puts us at the forefront using technology that really is uh cutting edge and so I'm excited  about that and that's just that's just one example also on 8D uh multi-million dollar  drainage improvements coming for Fleming Avenue our residents uh have had concerns Deputy Mayor  Briley you know that's your zone um and this is just you know after the downpour that we had this  evening getting here it seems like we're having these downpours more frequently and uh being able  to handle those better uh it's a few million dollars but uh when this is all put together with  the final drainage project that's going to run a line underground from Central Park all the way  to the Halifax River and allow us to pump down both sides of Central Park much quicker than we  have the capability to now the goal is to prevent uh flooding in the future and so this goes a long  way towards towards making sure that happens all right uh public hearings agenda item 9 we are  now going to open the public hearings and I'd ask the clerk to read 9A ordinance number 2024-26 an ordinance amending chapter 2 district and general regulations article 4 conditional and special exception regulations section 2-57 criteria for review of specific conditional and special exception subsection 37 houses of worship of the City of Ormond Beach Land Development Code by amending the conditions for houses of worship repealing  all inconsistent ordinances or parts thereof providing for severability and setting  forth an effective date this is the first reading of ordinance number 2024-26 read by  title only thank you uh I have a note to ask the Planning Director to speak on the item but it is  fairly straightforward Steven unless there's something that you have to put on the record Steven Spraker Planning Director I don't really have anything additional uh it is a request to  allow through a special exception process the ability to reduce the setbacks planning board  did recommend approval uh the applicant is here to address the Commission if there are any questions  thank you appreciate that and I note it was a unanimous uh recommendation we're not really  voting on anything in particular tonight as far as a project goes it just gives them the opportunity  to bring something back through the process absolutely correct so they don't have the ability  to go through a variance or a plan development so this is their only mechanism it would need to go  through site plan review committee a neighborhood meeting planning board and back to this Commission  for each um special exception that would be applied for thank you uh Commission any questions  move approval second we' been seconded I will ask uh Jessica is there anything you want to put on  the record she's okay uh any discussion please call the vote Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner  Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Mayor Partington yes 9B ordinance  number 2024-27 an ordinance approving the final plat for the Bradford Lakes Subdivision shown  within phase 4 of the Plantation Oaks planned residential development establishing conditions  and expiration date of approval and setting forth an effective date this is the first reading of  ordinance number 2024-27 read by title only thank you Susan I'll ask uh Planning Director Steven  Spraker to speak briefly on this one good evening Steven Spraker Planning Director this is a request  for a final plat it is part of the Plantation Oaks uh plan residential development the overall  Plantation Oaks development their subdivision density is 1.71 units per acre this individual  phase is 80 Lots on on 53 acres this is the overall subdivision it's located right here in the corner  they will build Pennsylvania in order to gain access a preliminary plat was approved in 2023  this is the last last step which will allow them to subdivide the land the planning board  did recommend approval of the application with a 6 to 0 vote and the applicant is here if there are  any questions thank you Steven and this is a ministerial duty correct correct any questions  Commission second moved and seconded please call the vote Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner  Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner Tolland yes Mayor Partington yes 9C ordinance number 2024-28 an ordinance approving the final plat for the Bradfork Park subdivision establishing conditions and expiration date of approval and setting forth an effective date this is the first reading of ordinance number 2024-28 read by title only thank you I don't have any cards any questions Commission so move second move been seconded any other discussion please call the vote Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Mayor Partington yes 9D ordinance number 2024-29 an ordinance changing the name of Halifax Street to Cliffhaven Court and Matanzas Street to Ridgehaven Avenue said streets being located in the Ridgehaven Subdivision area repealing all inconsistent ordinances or parts thereof providing for transmittal and recording in the public records of Volusia County and setting  forth an effective date this is the first reading of ordinance number 2024-29 read by  title only thank you Susan uh I don't have any cards on 9D move approval second movement seconded  any discussion or questions please call the vote Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner  Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Mayor Partington yes 9E resolution number 2024-133 a resolution authorizing the execution and issuance of a development order for a special exception to allow outdoor activity to include the permanent outdoor storage display and sales of merchandise at the Lowes Home Improvement store located at 1340 West Granada Boulevard establishing conditions and expiration date of approval and setting forth an effective date this is resolution number 2024-133 read by title only thank you Susan and uh we'll ask our Planning Director Steven Spraker to just brief us on this one again Steven Spraker Planning Director so this is a special exception the property is at 1340 West Granada Boulevard this would be Granada at the top of the screen and there is a large uh conservation e easement behind the property the outdoor activity is at the front of the store and to the side of the store in 2012 there was a special exception that allowed the outdoor display of goods and materials along the frontage of the store um recently in this year there was violations found by the special magistrate the special exception before you  tonight um is to cure the special magistrate issue and to bring the site in compliance on  August 20th there was a special exception that was presented to the planning to the City Commission  planning board did recommend approval of the special exception the August proposal had the outdoor  uh goods and services in front of the store and then to the side they were using it for mulch and  outdoor storage with a gate um located in front of that there was concern expressed at the City  Commission and the applicant went back heard the concerns of the Commission and brought forward a  new proposal so this would be the front of the store located um kind of in the center of the  screen they still maintain the outdoor um goods and services along the frontage that they've had  since 2012 and they've tightened up the outdoor storage of where the parking area is and they've  placed um two 10 foot um extensions of their garden center in essence to frame the outdoor storage  and then they would have the ability to go around either for private vehicles or for emergency um  services to access the rear of the property the staff report um provided what the applicant had  done in terms of changing the site plan um in the front of it they have again put 10 foot um gates to  match the garden center they're also placing landscaping in front there are four uh parking  spaces that are proposed that would be used if you were uh quickly going into the outdoor area  if you're picking up a bag or two a mulch you could park here get it and then go again you  still have the ability to go to the back and then this side is also screened this is the landscape  update that they've done um they've also working with our landscape architect to refresh the front  buffer along Granada to replace some of that landscape material and then this is the style  of the fence that would go around the proposed outdoor storage the applicant is here um to  address the Commission again the planning board recommended approval with the conditions that  are in your staff report and in the resolution thank you Steven any questions for Steven not for  Steven okay Mr. Posey is here on behalf of the applicant we'll recognize Joey Posey from Storch Law good evening Joey Posey 420 South Nova I pretty much Steven summed it up I think the  things that we're really happy with is actually the site's function is a lot better than it  currently is because it forces all those folks that want to do the big uh pickups and deliveries  they got to go the back can't see them uh the other thing I think that's nice here is that  you really have a nice landscaping as you come into the site which isn't currently there even  if we sat with the existing conditions it wouldn't be there um so it's just a better function of the  property and you know we do really appreciate and we're trying to make this work to we we  recognize the concerns and you know at least Lowes is trying to be responsive to hearing what the  Commission has to say and especially that visual buffer that is uh you know in front of the store  there because that's important so we understand that so if there's anything I can do that uh to  address it at this point uh you know I think we ended up in a better place but um I'm happy and  I'm here to listen and answer any questions thank you and Commissioner Tolland for Attorney Posey so  I just want to say thank you we we did um Mr. Posey and I did have a nice conversation regarding the  proposed plan so thank you for reaching out um I do appreciate you um looking at refreshing the  landscaping that's definitely imperative um what my question and we I thought about this after our  conversation is the p is there any concern with pedestrian safety behind the gate when you have  cars coming through picking up and and is there going to be a mix of pedestrian cars that we need  to be concerned about so I don't imagine so but I would probably defer to our site engineer on that  question but I I and I'm sorry I didn't think about it when we were having our conversation ex excuse me I've lost my voice this afternoon uh Roger Stigola 265 North Avenue um really the only  pedestrian activity will be those four parking spaces they would go through so they won't be  walking through the whole thing going through perfect that was that was my only concern thank  you appreciate it Commissioner Persis no I just wanted to say um I spoke with Attorney Posey as  well and thank you for reaching out to me as well and I just want to thank you for listening to us and  and making these changes I think they're great so thank you very much Commissioner Sargent I  echo that and I I I know that it came up before that there's a lot of managers that get changed  in out there and that sometimes that's a problem the loss of communication if hopefully there can  be a memo or a memorandum in the their office that when someone new comes in that we don't  put sheds out front near Granada and where where we've echoed the same concerns because that's the  line of communication is important and I think you're getting a much better response from the  regional folks that say that we got to make sure that there's some institutional knowledge that  stays with us when these issues come up thank you than um I I appreciate what you've done with the  sheds and and the mulch and everything I still have issues with the grills the lawnmowers and  the plants um if you can get those behind the gate that'd be great as well because I got a phone call  today about how unsightly the just the whole the whole row along the front of the store was now I  didn't see it I just got a phone call on it but I still think you know I'd like to see the the  grills and at least the lawnmowers back behind the gate maybe some plants out front in front of  the garden center but I think you know um I just you know when we passed this in 2012 I was on the  planning board and um you know I thought it was okay then but then I started seeing violations  and it just continued so if you could get you know get some of that clutter out from in front of the  store and put it behind the fence I'd be happy and and it's appreciated Commissioner I I understand  where you're coming from and and this is a delicate balancing act that I think I'm trying  to do here because you know from Lowes perspective this is this is their business and this is  something that I think is receptive to folks that come and go you know obviously there's maybe some  disagreements from you know what may be unsightly or what may be their you know nature of how they  advertise um in in those kind of uh aspects of it but you know I I think the things that we've  done really well here are something that you know Lowe's as much as it was a difficult conversation  to have with them was something we could get them to and I'm hardpressed to say that I can get them  to commit to something that goes against really what the the nature of how they do business and  especially since you know they' they've come to the table they said we've we've done the  wrong we've made it wrong this time around and we want to make it right so well I think was really  simple I mean when you have marked boxes where stuff is supposed to be and it's not inside the  box you know understood they're going outside the lines so if they could do something with the the  grills and the the lawnmowers that'd be great I appreciate it and again we're we're happy to keep  the dialogue going and make sure we can address it to the best of our ability because the the goal is  to they want to be good good residents too along with everybody else great Commissioner Sargent um  thank you Mr. Mayor I hear what Deputy Mayor Briley is saying but every Lowe's I've ever been to every  Home Depot I've ever been to has grills lawn mow I mean it's part of their marketing strategy um I  understand that you want to declutter it but this is the way they operate business they that's how  they sell their items so I have a hard time with government coming in to tell them you can't have  your product out there to sell your product when that's how their stores are nationwide whether you  go to a Home Depot Lowe's whatever it is so um I'm I'm okay with it Mr. Mayor and I appreciate the um  everything that they've done to and I appreciate that comment but that was a special exception you  were granted because the city doesn't allow that practice we don't allow that practice and that  was a special exception granted to Lowe's and you were given areas where it could be done and it started  off fine but then it kind of got out of control and Commissioner I I I understand where you're  coming from so I again I'm happy to pass along those comments because these folks want to do it  the right way it's just you know those incremental steps and trying to balance this you know I've got  you know that's that's the tight rope I'm walking but I do I understand where you're coming from  perfect and Joey we've got your number now I didn't get yeah your cell number I didn't  get to call you back today I apologize but uh we'll we'll get there and I appreciate  your willingness to continue the conversation so thank you all right I have a question just  for Commissioner Briley so if everything was contained within the squares you would be okay  if it were contained in the squares okay but I just don't you don't believe I don't  have a lot of faith so just as a reminder we have done special exceptions for other  businesses to show their products outside their doors in even smaller ones so you know I think if they complied I wouldn't have a problem with it at all I do think it is a  marketing strategy and I'm probably one of the biggest suckers when I walk into low and grab  a plant on the way on the way in so you know it works so maybe if we can just work with  compliance that we be better that would be good all right any other questions I do need a motion  move approval second movement seconded any other discussion please call the vote Commissioner Tolland  yes Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley I'll be an apprehensive  of yes Mayor Partington yes and we will close the public hearings move to 10A resolution number 2024-154 a resolution establishing fu fuel flowage fees landing fees and aircraft  tiedown fees at the Ormond Beach Municipal Airport and setting forth an effective date  this is resolution number 2024-154 read by title only thank you Susan I  have 18 cards on this one but we're going to start with our economic development director  uh Brian Rademacher and then possibly have Steve Lichliter the airport manager as well thank you Mayor Mayor City Commission the item before you today is uh two items one is to  establish landing fees at the airport and the second is to accept a proposal uh to ad to have  Vector um be the uh company that handles the landing fees as you know the uh Ormond airport  currently has a loan to the general fund of $999,000 $852.20 for the local match that has  been provided to the airport which it has used uh for its required airport Improvement projects  which are used to keep the airport open as part of the national airspace system the airport currently  does not generate enough revenue uh to uh through its existing tenants to uh be self- sustaining  following the direction of the Commission and its effort to reduce our debt and to make the airport  more self-sustaining the airport is proposing this landing fee it has been calculated upon  the revenue needed by the airport to uh maintain its estimated local cost share for planned and future  Capital Improvement projects at the airport based on the the way that the landing fee  is written uh aircraft based at the airport are exempt from paying landing fees they are exempt  because they pay they they pay a share of airport expenses through hanger rents property taxes Etc  non-exempt itinerant aircraft will be required to pay the landing fees implementation in this form  spreads the cost of operating and maintaining the airport to all users not just those those  that are based at our airport again landing fees will be used to cover the local share of airport  Capital Improvement projects and to repay monies borrowed by the city's uh from the airport by the  city's general fund which has been the primary way in which we've done airport projects with regards  to the second item just to get that out there the vector airport system service is in use at over 76  airports nationwide uh the proposed contract was reviewed in accordance with our city procurement  process it was advertised uh by the city on August 20 for 15 days we did not receive any  responses to the advertisement from other vendors and again the landing fee revenue will be used to  cover our share of state and federal grants for Capital Improvement projects as we try to  maintain this airport for the users of it Steven Lichliter Airport Manager and I are available for  questions that you may have thank you Brian and uh Commission I suggest we get through the uh cards  and then if we have questions we can move forward from there uh folks who are interested in speaking  we've got four seats up front here I'd like to call four at a time and then uh have you be ready  on deck so the first four will be Douglas Shin Daryl Hickman Terrence Perkins and Patrick Murphy and we'll start with Douglas Shin my name is Douglas Shin uh I'm not a resident presently  of Ormond Beach I grew up in Ormond I do own a hangar hanger 88 out at Ormond and the points  I would like to make on this are unintended consequences I as I understand your fdot and  your FAA grants are somewhat determined and awarded by the number of operations at the  airport um this landing fee will decrease those number of operations no ifs ands or buts um you  know how was people wonder how copper wire was was formed there was two pennies or two pilots  fighting for a penny um but the tower operations costs are already funded 100% by the faa again if  the operation numbers decrease then the city is going to be on the hook for a good bit of those  costs so as the number of pilots are dissuaded from coming to Ormond Beach then the operations  will drop and then it may end up actually costing the city money instead of making the city money  and I haven't heard anybody discuss anything about what vectors uh estimates of the decrease  in traffic are going to be due to to these landing fees so um I've talked to a number of pilots from  other areas who use Ormond airport and they use it to come and visit businesses not at  the airport but in Ormond so again this decrease will dissuade business instead of increasing  business um so with that being said um I think it's a mistake to try and impose landing fees um  there are too many questions at this point unanswered and I think  there's better ways to increase the revenue at the airport thank you Daryl Hickman Dayrl Hickman 323 Riviera Lane I live in Ormond Beach my wife owns a hanger at the airport and I  run a business out of there um if you would take a few minut minutes to look on social media and  look at the various pilot forums around the state there is a call for a boycott of any  airport that imp imposes these fees that will directly affect my business uh I receive more  than 95% of my clients from outside of this area outside of the state and outside of this country  they come to Ormond Beach they eat in Ormond Beach they stay in Ormond Beach their family  stay here they rent hotel rooms and they patronize our restaurants they will not  come if you do this not because it will affect me directly because I am apparently exempt from this  policy but just for the purposes of solidarity across this country with pilots I do find it  quite interesting that somehow we've determined that a $3 per thousand pound fee is what will pay back  the $999,000 loan that you approved for the airport over these grants that's interesting  to me because it somehow mimics the other five airports that are cohorts in the same process  how all of them have the same debt load and the same $3 fee and the same amount of traffic to  pay it off and there's nothing said that when that fee is paid off that these these landing fees will  stop so is this a perpetual revenue source for the city I don't know if that's the case or not  but there's a lot of unanswered questions here and the big question for me is why why did you  agree to this debt and now all of a sudden you found a way to pay it back when we already pay  fees and as Mr. Shin said you are going to reduce the traffic at this airport thank you thank you Patrick Murphy yes okay Patrick Murphy I'm a resident of Miami City but a vice president at  Sunrise Aviation which is the FBO and flight school out at the airport um as been mentioned  we realize that we are exempt from this and I would tell that my position is kind of neutral  because I understand the city's need to make money um and to pay back uh that  debt but also I also understand the fact that uh flying flight training flying your own  personal aircraft is already expensive for us I think the only effect is really since we are  the fueler at the airport this may discourage people to come in and buy fuel um but I think  that's really the only negative thing but I did want to come in and say that thank you thank you Terence Perkins good evening I'm Terence Perkins uh 108 Heritage Circle so I've been  a tenant out at the uh airport since 1987 so I fly my airplane I'm looking forward to flying  it some more all that I would ask is there are issues with regard to at what level does the  city become responsible for the control tower out there and there is a level I remember we talked  about that years ago and so if you're looking at that and you're considering all of that I I really  don't have an objection but the airport is safer today than it was when I started flying because  of what you did by getting us a control tower and I would hate to see the financial obligation that  is currently funded on a federal level revert to the city when the number of airplanes which  is what it's based on um decreases so as long as you're looking at all of those pieces and  considering all of those pieces um then I just want to maintain the control tower thank you thank you let's see I've got uh Richard aisher aisher Wood Gordon ARB arbman Samantha Boyer and Tony  arus arnus forgive me on the names once we're done from everybody we can go for okay I think  it's good just we get all questions Richard yes Sir Richard Isherwood I live at the 1531  Poplar Drive uh I have an aircraft at the uh the hanger and one thing you all to look at is  uh the FAA funding that we get is based on the number of aircraft takeoffs and land landings  if you Institute this you're going to lose a lot of takeoffs and landings so you're going to lose  some FAA funding if you look at Umatilla Umatilla was a just a grass strip they went in they kept  track of it they took care of people they kept their cost down they increased their count to the  point where they've paved runways they've built hangers and I think there's other alternative  ways you guys can make some money here rentals hanger rentals I was wait looking for three  three years to find a hanger and that's a steady income every month you're going to get whatever  you charge so I think it's it's this is a ills spent effort to tax each aircraft that's it thank you Gordon have I'm Gordon Arbman I live in Halifax Plantation and um I've got an air on uh an airplane that I  keep at the Ormond uh Beach Airport um the only thing I want to talk about uh I'll probably be  back to talk about section B but the only thing I want to talk about here is the the process um  by which staff has presented this to all you folks um it looks to me like what was presented to you  was all of the talking points from this third party company that wants to make money from us  they're not necessarily bad guys or anything but they're in business to make money they  do not have the best interest of our city or our airport high on their priority list and  it sounds like the only thing that was presented in this public discussion by  staff was their talking points there is um a lobbying organization that represent and  pilots and aircraft owners called AOPA Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association they are delighted  to sit down with staff at any time from any airport and talk about what the trade-offs  are of something like this they're opposed to it but and you don't have to listen to them but  it seems to me that staff doing its proper job to educate you would give you both sides of this and  staff has not spoken with AOPA before coming forward with this and that makes no sense at  all to me uh I think the AOPA should meet with staff and possibly have their representative  come down here to speak with you all and and be questioned and she would be happy to do that and  I'd be happy to make that contact if if you think that's appropriate but that seems like  a logical process to keep you informed to make the intelligent decision your goal protect the  city protect the airport balance the budget right that's fairly straightforward that goal doesn't  mesh 100% with vectors nor does it mesh 100% with AOPA so I would think you'd want to hear  from both sides through staff or directly rather than just one thank you for listening thank you Samantha Boyer sorry a little short I'm Samantha Boyer I live in Ormond by the Sea like many others I have  a aircraft at Ormond Beach where it's called home for about 8 years I am an associate professor of  aeronautical science um and I'm going to approach this conversation a little bit differently than  I think some of my my fellow pilots um one of the one topic that I want to talk about with VI vector  and how they plan on implementing the landing fees is through ADSB data that's the data that  they're going to collect on who we are and if we're based there or not um that data and that  tool was implemented by the FAA to improve safety Ormond Beach's airspace does not require ADSB data  to be used it would be very easy for many of us to turn it off while we were in there which would  actually pose a major safety concern um and I'd be curious on how that would work at a lot of other  airports that are looking at this as well um so that's my number one concern is the increase of  safety concerns that would occur especially with the increased amount of traffic that we have with  specifically student pilots in the area um I also want to talk about the fa reauthorization Act of  2024 that was approved earlier this summer one of the items in that very very long act um includes  that the FAA and Congress have agreed that you cannot initiate any sort of investigation based  on ADSB data alone I would argue that imposing fines and fees based on this data is a similar  overreach of government um protocol I find that highly irresponsible and I find it a a  door with unintended consequences like one of our peers talked about earlier as well um my third  comment that I would like to make before offering a suggestion um because I don't like to complain  without offering a solution um is that the United States model with general aviation which  has consumed my entire adult life and my entire profession is that we don't want to do landing  fees we want to protect general aviation in order to promote the most safe and efficient aviation  industry in the world which is the faa's model um imposing Landing fees is going to take away  from that we're also going to increase the already very expensive industry in which we operate which  would also discourage a lot of International students who come here in order to train and  gain some of the most valuable training that they're going to receive in their professional  careers my solution is that you really need to work on attracting businesses filling that  golf course that is now been vacant for years with other opportunities to encourage pilots that are  coming to our airport for more than just practice landings because I think that's the concern um  promoting events educational facilities air shows car shows that would encourage people to come and  spend money in our city on our airport property and help fund the needed that we need thank you Tony ar ar nudis good evening Tony Arnaoutis I live on Tiffany uh 17th Tiffany Circle off the street from here I'm  going to give you a different angle I'm an immigrant legal all the way I was born and  raised in Greece my father was a jet fighter pilot I learned how to fly when I was six my  utmost dream was to become a pilot in Greece and have an airplane impossible user fees taxes and  all the other stuff that happen so on which is you're about to implement here disallowed  me from this so I'm a physical therapist uh I came here when I was 27 I was a teacher another  industry that does not work very well in the United States I became a physical therapist  and financially I could afford to get an aeroplane in 1998 uh from Sunrise Aviation I got my pilot's  license I own an airplane and a hanger I'm exempt from this rule but there is a thing  here that nobody is real good is United States of America the first nation in the world in what how about number of prisoners how about education not very much how about Aviation right why because  we're allowed to operate aircraft freely we can land anywhere we want to and all my friends in  Greece when I go there on vacation they say so you can go anywhere you want to and nobody no  I have six friends personal friends that came to emerle got their pilot's license work for Greek  aviation industry and they live in the United States of America because of this because they  like to fly airplanes if this gets implemented might as well go back to Greece uh my dream is  to fly in my small general aviation aircraft back to Greece and there's companies that will book  this for you you know how much I'm going to pay in user fees flying from here the Greece $6,000 it's almost equal to the fuel I will play I will pay to fly there  not a good thing Gentlemen please do not do this thank you thank you all right Sean Daly Robert Fox Bob Brown and Ron Sarah Sean you can come on up to the mic sir thank you and you can start while they're coming up I think I'm G to be alone anyway so uh Sean Daly again Northbrook I have the unique uh situation of  I've owned my property for 45 years in Northbrook if you draw a straight line from the East West  Runway it goes right over my house and I can tell you that because of the number of planes that buzz  my house every day now I will tell you again I don't have a problem with our airport what  I have a problem with is Daytona flight schools and when some these folks are complaining about  operations going down 95 90 to 95% of operations at our airport are Daytona flight schools you  think they're not going to come for $10 no they don't have anywhere else to go as a matter of  fact they're going to come they're just going to pass on that expense as a part of the curriculum  or tuition for their students it's just a cost of doing business a million dollars of taxpayer  money has been spent on someplace that's used by very few people now I understand they all want to  have their place for the airplane I think that's great I'm pretty sure you're a lot of smart people  in the last 15 years that this has been a problem because the airport has never paid for itself ever  even when the golf course was running it didn't pay for itself never so I think if  you could find another way to squeeze money out of that place you would have done it you're not  going to put hanger space there to fill enough to raise enough money to pay off this debt you  have a responsibility to the citizens most of whom as I will again refer to the survey that  was done 10 or 15 years ago don't think the airport is that important to I recognize to  a lot of other folks it's very important but they don't even those folks aren't even going  to pay so do you think anybody's not going to fly here because of 10 that's less than it costs to  go on the beach every day $10 and I don't I'm just thinking $10 $5 operations I can tell you  that the Daytona flight schools despite our noise abatement policy routinely violate it every day  we have a simple policy for instance you're not supposed to be doing Flight Training before 8:00  a.m. you know what Phoenix East Aviation could care less about that on a routine basis they  put four or five planes there sometimes at 6:30 in the morning and why am I so passionate about  this because my wife was very ill for a long time on chemotherapy you know you can't sleep all the  time when you want to but did they care I called them I called Embry Riddle I called our people  we can't do anything about that and you know why they're constantly flying over because they shove  six planes at a time into our tiny little airport and those planes are going around and around 10  times so if they want to do that make them pay I'm tired of paying I don't think the citizens  want to pay thank you Sean Robert Robert Fox did I get that right oh Ron Sarah I've got you too Ron go ahead okay good evening Commissioners uh City attorney city managers my name is Ron  Sarah and um I appreciate your service obviously but I fundamentally disagree  with the implementation of uh these landing fees I must be divine intervention that I'm coming up  after this young that young man I'm apologize for your wife um but I've been here since 1978 and  and um went to college here I taught College here taught at Daytona State taught at Embry  Riddle I now teach at Purdue uh online I was a FHP Trooper here troop D so uh my wife is a  30-year-old uh State Attorney 50ca 7 circuit so I have a big connection to this community my son now  is a Delta Legacy pilot and anybody in this room would be happy and lucky to be on his 737 flying  out of Daytona uh Beach International Airport why because he trained here in our infrastructure  with our flight instructors okay that's why we have we have the mecca of Flight Training and  these people behind me they've dedicated their lives lives 30 40 years to make it that way um  let me just give you some quick statistics uh each flight school brings it any anywhere  between one to 6 million into this community the Florida Department of Transportation says that  Aviation and Flight Training brings an 8 billion that's billion with a B okay every dollar spent at  that airport $2 is spent into the into the uh Community uh I know other people are going to  talk about safety issues so I'm not going to I'm not going to go there uh what I am going to talk  about is our competition our competition right now is going to be Arizona Texas and the Midwest  they're looking to see uh what what Florida does because they want the our students they want  they want them there because they want part of that 8 billion income coming and pumping into  this economy um let me explain also that I teach online somebody talked about the social media we  come from a different generation folks we come from a generation that our reputation if if you  did something it's going to take years before we see that effect now it's months and days let  me give you an example I have 100 students in my seminar every Tuesday night those 100 students on  Perdue University are all Aviation related people I have about 12 of them who train here Perdue has a  totally different model than Emby riddle they put their students all over the United States  at approved flight schools so I have students all over I have 12 people here who are Flight Training  and they say in the class discussion Professor what's going on with these flight training with  these are landing fees this is going to put another uh 5 to $6,000 onto my bill immediately  a 100 of those students are all talking about flight landing fees in Daytona Beach area Ormond okay um next is Bob Brown thank you Sor nope do we have one one question I have one question if I'm  also on 10B do I have another uh three minutes you would if we get there yes sir Bob Brown Mayor Commissioners yes sir uh Ms. Tolland I think that's your Zone it is my zone yes um I'd  like to give you a couple of uh things to think about when you're when you're talking about these  landing fees one it it's it's not a good idea that you have them rolled into uh the same ordinance  with the hanger fees and the tie downs those are property values that you you're going to have to  look at um but the landing fees are are an issue that are are separate all to their own uh this is  something that this company has come up to sell us and and they've given the airport managers a good  Spiel to give to you guys but it's not good enough uh there are issues with it they're sweetening  the deal to make you think that it's it's okay by giving it um a free ride for your your tenants you  know you're not you're not charging them many fees you're only charging the the transient people that  are flying into the airport um I believe that they also said that uh the businesses and the tenants  can also give vouchers to the the people that are flying in so that they are exempt uh if your  tenants are doing a good job and they're exempting their business people that are visiting them  nobody's going to collect any fees uh from the simple thing that uh if you go to the FBO and you  buy a bottle of water is that acceptable is that a good visit to a business uh the the airplanes  that come to the Airfield and buy fuel is that a good business uh stop to where somebody's going to  be exempt uh there's a lot of things to to think about how that fee is going to be collected who's  going to take the complaints is that going to be you guys or is it going to be Vector there's a lot to  think about the other thing is that uh these the the the runways are designed to hold thousands  and thousands of pounds 30,000 40,000 uh these little small airplanes that we're talking about  taxing with with landing fees weigh less than your car does they're not the ones that are destroying  the the runways the taxiways the the other thing is is if you if you're going to make this equal  for everybody uh if you exempt people here at home you need to exempt everybody you exempt  one you got to exempt them all so this exemption is eventually going to go away we're all going to  to get hit with this fee um it's it's bad because we're also doing the same thing with helicopters  helicopters thank you don't don't do anything any damage to runways thank you yep we're going to go to Matthew Sarah Sharon Sarah David Gul and Terrence Anderson Matthew you're up first hello  mayor Commissioners firstly I want to explain why I'm qualified to speak to you all today uh firstly  I'm an airline pilot for a prominent airline based in uh Atlanta Georgia a legacy Airline I'm and I'm  a professor for Purdue University I want to paint a picture of a young boy and a young family trying  to make ends meet with their small flight school that's what we did operating on paper thin margins  um this will enable those margins to become even tighter what they are today um they'll be  so tight you will not have family run businesses operating at the or the Ormond Daytona all of the  the airports that Implement these these fees so I can guarantee you that not only will this get rid  of family businesses it's anti- Family Safety is also a major concern let's talk about about the  737 Max crash um this shook the world Federal new or um this was worldwide news and it was partly  to blame with pilots that were not qualified and did not have the experience to operate that 737  aircraft I'm a 737 pilot I know that the person next to me I want to be incredibly qualified  to do the job that they're supposed to do by implementing these fees this is going to make  it so Pilots try to avoid having reps landings doing this um more getting more practice in the  aircraft so when they go to the airlines they have the experience to operate these aircrafts let's  talk about the laugher curve since I also am a a financial Professor laugher curve is a Reagan Era  Economic Policy as we increase taxes increase fees we know for a fact that revenue for the  government is going to decrease I can guarantee you that these fees will not cause an increase in  Revenue my wonderful fiance behind me Bella she is a uh a new flight instructor here in the Daytona  Beach area operating over in Phoenix East she is $180,000 of debt and she is the perfect student  zero check ride failures zero that's unheard of so do you want to make that $280,000 of debt they  won't do it so this pilot shortage that you see in federal news worldwide news this will become  even worse this is going to affect our aviation industry as a whole I guarantee it so if you do  pass this I want to at least see an exemption for aircraft under 6,000 pounds there is precedent for  this in other airports I hope you do not accept this these fees at all but please please consider  the legislation and the the minutia detail here and please ask ask the experts thank you Sharon Sarah hi I'm Sharon Sarah and that's my boy it's his birthday and he came here um I  just want to start out I've been an attorney not a 30-year-old attorney but a 30-year attorney as  you can see by my white hair first I want to ask that the commission um remove the landing fees  from this ordinance to have further research into how to impose these Fe fees who to impose them on  if at all um if you take a look at Tallahassee Tallahassee has the fees Vector of course is the  only player in all of these uh airports and they are exempting any aircraft that is under 6,000 pounds  because any aircraft under 6,000 pounds isn't causing any kind of damage to that airport and it's very  important that we pay attention to what is going to happen with regards to the aviation industry  across the United States not just in Florida but Florida will be impacted considerably um as an  attorney I'm concerned about antitrust laws um being violated that they are supposed to  be reason these fees are supposed to be created from reasonable and non-discriminant methodology  um here we've got four or five airports right now that are getting together through Vector  apparently and they are setting they are price fixing these fees rather than seeing what their  individual needs are and how each player that comes into the airport is using the airport you  may have a percentage a high higher percentage of different types of traffic you have to see  what that traff traffic does and how it impacts before you set a fee now we also want to take  a look at 49 usca 41116 and that has to do with reasonableness is this reason is it reasonably is  what the the the pilot the majority of pilots who are going to experience these fees is it related  to their usage of your airport and if it's not then there's a problem and that's why Tallahassee  chose 6,000 pounds or greater to impose the fees because those are corporate Pilots those are the  big planes those are 10,000 pounds land pounding on your uh your runways and your taxiways that's  causing your problems I would hope that in the event that you actually passed this ordinance and  include the landing fees hopefully you will not um that you also I would resp respectfully request  that the proos landing SK fee schedule will be pulled from the ordinance pending more research  a landing fee schedule must be non-discriminatory must be reasonable and it's vital for the landing  fee schedule not to interfere interfere federally preempted controlled airspace thank thank you David Gul please indulge me I'm very nervous dry mouth I don't speak well in public um my  name is David G I'm from Port Orange Florida I learned to fly in Vero Beach in 1977 47 years a  pilot I've been a member of the aircraft owners and Pilots Association since 1985 the largest  organization of its kind worldwide I was an air traffic controller for 34 years I started out  in Vero Beach in its busiest Heyday when they did twice the traffic that this airport does I worked  at Orlando Executive and the Northern California Tron which at one time was the busiest Tron in the  nation while I was in California I watched general aviation die it just died out there because of  user fees because of cities that didn't appreciate the value of the airport that they had I'm an  Embry Riddle alumnist I'm a University of Central Florida aerospace engineering graduate and I flew  as an airline pilot for three and a half years under United Delta and Alaska Airlines banners  as a Skywest Airlines pilot I'm also a flight instructor teaching my own kids to fly I have  a 1971 sess of 50 that cost me about $40,000 for a 50s something year old airplane that's pretty big  chunk of change out of that $40,000 I had to add $5,000 worth of ADSB equipment to this airplane in  order to comply with the federal requirement for ADSB in order to fly in Central Florida airspace  you need that the airplane is equivalent to an old Volkswagen Beetle that a guy my age might  have driven to high school it cost me about $30 per hour to operate that airplane and if I can do  10 takeoffs and landings in an hour which is quite reasonable amount of takeoffs and landings I can  teach my kids to fly 10 takeoffs and landings at $3 per thousand pounds is $60 per hour for takeoff  and landing practice which is double my operating cost for the airplane you've just tripled my cost  to teach my kids how to fly I'm not doing this commercially I'm not Embry Riddle I'm not a big  flight school I just want to teach my own kids to fly like you guys teach your kids to drive  do they charge you $10 to go around the block every time on a public street no this is public  infrastructure it's here for the benefit of all of us and it does benefit all of us this proposal  would triple my direct hourly operating costs and I'd like to rebut to the staff that it's ludicrous  to advertise a bid locally for 15 days when the known vendor who instigated this proposal is not  even a US Corporation but a German corporation if you're going to advertise locally and your one  vendor is from out of the country maybe you should advertise your bid for a little bit longer and  outside of the state I'm not going to have time to get through all of this I'm sorry um I don't think  this proposal fits in with the national plan of integrated airport systems or the Florida  Airport System plan if your staff did not brief you on these things and how Ormond Beach Airport  fits into these plans I suggest you withdraw this plan spend more time with staff find out where  this airport fits in the plan and make it fit I've got twice as much to say I'm sorry thank you Terrence Anderson followed by Michael Galozi first of all I'm gonna cut this short because um the time Li and plus most most people have said  a lot of the things I going to say anyway but I see plenty of talking point for this first  of all one of the gentlemen was complaining about the the airspace people flying around  and over their houses and things I live in on the beach I'm a resident I in fact I probably  pay more taxes than him I don't know but I'm pretty happy I stay in Plantation Bay my taxes  are high I don't care if they fly over I prefer them to fly over secondly um this landing fee  thing um affects the the landing just like the pilot was saying here about the 737s and say um  most people don't realize when you get on that plane yourself those pilots are required to cut  the autopilot off once they get so close to the ground there's only there the planes will require  if they're equipped to do uh autopilot all the way to the ground and it's only once a month for most  of those planes that are equipped to do that but the ones that have to do it physically you have  to cut that auto pilot off and be able to fly that plane to the ground that's why it's so important  for them to know how to land that plane the most dangerous portion of flight is the landing phase  more people get killed landing than any other any other type of accident and if they don't know how  to land that plane and you start shortening up their curriculum to save money that means  there's going to be less training in them landing that plane but I don't how to land that plane  guess what I'm crashing in your house kill your kids kill your wife kill you so I think that's  very important for them to be able to land these planes and to land them uh um uh safely and and  the pattern and what we call the pattern when you fly around and around and around it teaches you  more phases of flight than anything else because you get your asense your descents your terms your  Banks everything is in that in that pattern so um that's a very important phase of flight and as far  as I'm saying that it's it's it's you know they're buzzing over the houses and stuff Ormond Beach  sits under a shelf under the Daytona International shelf a classy shelf it's 1,200 feet where it starts  the the uh pattern altitude is only another 100 feet due to the altitude so that means that gives them  100 feet they have to stay low to to not violate that space so that if he doesn't understand  that that's why they have you know gous noise on things um but again that they that landing is very  important for them to learn how to do this because they can't do it as far as going to the Airlines  and they cut that auto pilot off if they can't do it by hand guess what somebody going to get killed thank Michael uh galozi followed by Andre May okay Mr Mayor councilman thank you very much I appreciate having me uh give me the  opportunity to speak I figured I'd corral the birds in one pond I had intentions of  reaching out to you um on behalf of NASA I work for NASA Aeronautics research  uh Center um the that's Aeronautics Research Institute at as research in Moffet field uh  specializing in ad Advanced Air mobility and researching in particularly recently  the commercialization or the transfer of that technology into general aviation what I want to  do is uh share with you some of my research I think it might help with some of the empirical  data and review to assess where your situation is at this point and and this subject really offer  proposal if you will um so there's no doubt uh operations what we call air operations  flight operations or flights have increased tremendously here uh per the FAA database or  adic and the uh adip you're looking at over 7 million flights in the central Florida area um  that's obviously exacerbated by other itinerate we call transient traffic and local tenant traffic  so the high volume of course I me I heard uh noise abatement issues or noise concerns um and this has  been well documented the most recent study that New Symrna Beach Airport actually did uh which is  titled operating cost recovery strategies for the new smart Beach Airport and it's by Dr uh Buyer  and that that's publicly recently a release so employ you to research and read that okay  so point is as I mentioned before I'm looking and reviewing a what we call AA um Technologies  Advanced Air Mobility this the what we call uh electric electric vehicle EV aircraft Evol if  you've heard of the term so why does this matter so we think we NASA the nari group feel this area  is a beautiful microcosm of what a future aam environment would look like it's an integration  of autonomous vehicles with general aviation um what we want to do essentially is propose essentially um a number of things one of the things I mentioned before looking at the commercialization  effort we're concerned our reach is finding and proven out that things like uh Landing fees um the  approach that collecting the fees through the ADSB is a number of issues with this like unwarranted  surveillance using ADSB is not intended that may go away we're looking to part of our partners with  FAA to terminate that um it's also a um issue of publishing personal identifi information or pii  our proposal is just real quick and 10 seconds we want to leverage The 2024 airport Improvement  program or AIP the grant that's over5 billion to get into a PPP or public private partnership with  you um essentially we want to work with other airports FAA AOPA and you and other Regional  airports to to investigate further the transfer of this Tech no appreciate that y thank you Andre May evening thank you for allowing me to speak sir um let me give you a little bit back my background  um for about 35 years I worked with one of the largest international flight schools in Central  Florida we're credited um during that time I was running admissions for 15 years accreditation for  23 years the VA immigrations for 34 years and the demographic of the school was pretty much  70% International we had about 60 80 countries used to come down and the us obviously given  the pilot shortage has been increasing so that's been a good thing we're excited about that um one  of the things that people don't see and I know Ron and a lot of people coming up and actually talking  about what's actually happening is that Europe and the rest of the world charges so many fees that  United States really is number one in pilot training around way everybody comes here because  it's cheaper and believe me it's not cheap it's gotten very expensive over the years and I know  we always talk about how many landings we got so I did a little bit of research on how many landings  they actually involved because I know well how bad is it you know it's like $3 well no the  trainer that everybody uses like a typical Piper Archer 172 you know by the time you have the fuel  and everybody's on boards it's around 24 to 2500 pounds so you're looking at $6 per Landing so let's talk  about how many landings we got so with the help of AI I went on and started looking and we're  looking at uh up to 150 Landings for a private 70 for an instrument 150 for a commercial those are  just three courses you get done in a year right then you got your CFI is another 100 you got  your double uh your second instructor course which is 50 and then your multi- engine which is 20 so  you're looking look at a spread of anywhere from 365 to 540 Landings and and like they're talking  about the safety effort of it is that practice makes perfect and I can tell you I've seen kids  run out of money and they push their instructors to sign them off for the check ride and they're  not ready and what happens is they're desperate to finish the training to r on money what's going to  happen is is when the word is out like R is saying when the word is out and these kids talk and they  talk really easy the kids are not going to come and I can tell you years ago I worked on a project  with Dick Harky he was the Congressional Aid to congressman John Mike who signed this District  many years ago and there was a potential a lot of these fight schools going to lose this one  visa and so Dick Harky came up with a great idea he said Andre tell me the economic impact for  the State of Florida so I ended up being an appoint person for the United States to find  out what was going to be again so I was working with all the fly schools across the country and  the fly schools in Florida make a long story short it was like Ron said it was in the billions so I  get it these guys come in and and they like Hey listen I'll take care of your problem I know you  got money you need for the airport you got to fix it you guys don't have to do a thing and then the  airport manager is like hey I don't have to do a thing these guys are going to do it all for us  we're going to use this ADSB information and all the pilot here for they're all pods every time  they come in they're going to have to pay thank you Andre yeah anyway uh thanks for your time yes sir I had one card for Robert Fox I guess did he leave or wave Fox or Jex thank you that's sir  sorry about that I did ask somebody and they agreed that with me yeah it looked like i'  tell the guys it's like text with a Jay gotcha I say something else to the ladies they giggle  and they remember okay I'll keep my remarks very brief uh 3 minutes is not enough to do  justice to this highly controversial proposal so as the last speaker I suppose Mr Mayor members of  the Commission thank you for the opportunity to speak my first and hopefully not my last I will  summarize what others have brought forth to the table tonight for consideration in closing this  proposal is not ready for prime time and may never be it will not improve safety it will  not improve pilot production in an industry that desperately needs more pilots it will not improve  revenues at the airport in the long term in the short term it will until people get the  word that Ormond Beach is charging a landing fee for correct me if I'm wrong Mr director each and  every landing he's not shaking his head yes each and every Landing will generate a user fee let  me mention something this may be not necessarily an illegal proposal but perhaps an immoral one it  is based on the use of a technology a relatively new technology called ADSB at aircraft dependent  attitude dependent surveillance broadcast it is transponder on steroids it is designed for  an ATC safety enhancement function it is not repeat not intended to generate fees  for landing of aircraft whether they're base there or not it also cannot distinguish whether  the aircraft did a touch and go or a low approach I submit to you this policy is discriminatory it  definitely takes the training Community to task for visiting airports which is a required part of  their training and unnecessarily burdens them with additional fees that will discourage not encourage  discourage the use of the airport in the future I submit to you there are more positive ways to  approach the generation of airport Revenue as commissioners of course you need to be  thinking about how to raise money in the long term I get that let's talk about generating businesses  that the public wants to come to Ormond Beach Airport and use perhaps an aircraft overhaul  service an engine shop a propeller shop we have uh a helicopter training facility a helicopter repair  facility that doesn't yet exist let's take the high road on this  Mr Mayor members of the commission and generate businesses at the airport  that the aviation public wants to use I yield back the balance of my time thank you commission I think you were copied on a letter I received from Stacy Heaton who is the southern regional manager for AOPA aircraft owner and Pilots Association I sent that to our city clerk and  ask that she make that part of the record on this matter it uh covers many of the points that have  been made tonight also has a lot of uh stats and information in it um and commission we can now uh  go to discussion you want a motion on 10A or if there's a motion sure I'll move for discussion  I'll second for discuss okay moved and seconded and we'll start with you Commissioner Sargent thank you Mr Mayor and I have lots of comments but I think I'll keep it brief uh thank you to  the residents for coming out um back in October 6th of 2015 at the airport Master Plan update  Workshop commissioner Boehm at the time noted that he read that we were only in $177,000 in  debt so that kind of answers where you thought about nine years ago here we are 9 years later  and we're operating at over a million dollars in debt we're looking at ways to um explore  this so I I have a question for staff was this item presented to the Aviation Advisory Board uh we did not yet bring this before the Aviation Advisory board when the decision to  bring the item before the commission was made we started to move this forward with the expectation  to talk to them about it at their next meeting this fall I think it's important that we would  have them advise us before we are making a decision on something that's why we have an an  an Aviation Advisory Board um and let me be clear I'm not a no on charging a fee but I think we need  to look at everything look at all the options and here here we are several months ago I said  I would I would appreciate if we had an Aviation Advisory board that met more than as needed when  we are operating at a negative million dollars um in the red with that Mr Mayor I mean I have a lot  of other comments I can make um for the record I did speak with Stacy um from AOP I met with  several pilots out at the hang at Frank Bullard's hangers on Monday um I would like to make a motion  to table this item and the next item Mr Mayor I second that all right did you want to withdraw  your motion on uh 10A because we had a motion and a second for discussion yes I'll withdraw my motion  on 10A and make a motion in the second or withdraw I forget you Sor okay our second I'll withdraw  perfect then I'll make a motion to table items uh resolutions 10A and 10B is there a second second any issue with that Randy no just for clarification is it your attention that  the item be um presented to the Aviation Advisory Board before it comes back to the commission or  what what exactly are you directing staff to do yes I would like to direct staff to um let's go  with the process have the Aviation Advisory Board review this and advise us accordingly is there  anything else I just wanted to say something anything else and the seconders okay with that  addition is it may I say something yeah I just wanted to say I have so many questions and um I  am glad that um Commissioner Sargent that you've said what you've said and withdrawn everything I  there are so many questions about this this is a huge decision so I think we need lots more time  to learn about this issue um even more so that what's in our agenda it just doesn't answer all  my questions I was I've been sitting here writing down questions and I have so many so thank you for  doing that Commissioner Tolland no that's not how we do it sir Commissioner Tolland so I came in here  after you know doing my research talking some to some pilots and thinking that this was absolutely  the right thing to do um because it will fill that hole in the airport you know fund um  but obviously I learned a lot tonight and what I learned is this process of comments and coming up  and speaking to us works and at least in the fact that it gives us the opportunity to question uh  of those people that are experts in the field and not just what we can read and try to find  out on our own so I appreciate all the time that you guys spent in coming to the podium that's not  always an easy thing to do and I 100% respect the one gentleman that said he doesn't speak well in  public first time I came here I tried to promote a community garden I about threw up after I talked  to the Commission and went home and here I am so it's still I'm still not comfortable but that's  okay so I appreciate um Commissioner Sargent you have been talking about using our advisory  boards not just the aviation Advisory board but our advisory boards better I think this is the  perfect example of of where we failed in that respect and I'm really looking forward to coming  back after it's seen at the aviation Advisory Board and getting some of those answers asked um question commissioner s thank you Mr Mayor I'd just like to if there's anyone that's a Ormond  resident that would like to be on the aviation Advisory Board the applications are available  online and we normally do those in November after election season yeah check the website it's on  there now if you need help please email me or call me thank you so this is a vote on the motion to  continue 10A and 10B right Mr Mayor um Deputy Mayor Briley I would like to state that yeah I do  agree that I think our Aviation Advisory Board needs to review this first um however I do I do uh  concur with Mr Daly uh that you know the airport's been running a deficit for many many years and  it's I don't think necessarily the city should keep subsidizing the airport and on the backs of  the taxpayers so I do want to throw that out there but I do think it is worth our Aviation advisory board  looking at this prior to coming back to the city commission thank you thank you please call the  vote Commissioner Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent  yes Mayor Partington yes 10c resolution number number 2024-159 a resolution appointing a member  and an alternate member to serve on the opioid abatement funding Advisory Board establishing  term and conditions of service and setting forth an effective date this is resolution number 2024-  159 read by title only thank you uh Susan I don't have any cards on this item and but I will state  I'm currently serving on the opioid abatement Advisory Board uh Vice chair and I would have  one more meeting I think it's October 4th and I would like to continue to see that through  to the end essentially um so Susan I'm not sure the best way to accomplish that um Mr Mayor I'd  like to at least nominate uh Commissioner Tolland I second that thank you as the alternate member  correct okay they stole my thunder and I would thank you I would continue you guys are going  to get a chance to do this again in November or December or whenever you make all these um and  presumably and presumably Commissioner Tolland would then bump up possibly to the rep but I  would appreciate and be honored to be part of that opioid abatement awesome I know you've  already been to many I've been to a few meetings watching so I'm be honored thank you so we have a  motion in a second you need anything else at this point Susan this appointment would be for 2 years  um starting October 1st so um when I spoke to the representative from the county she said we  could either um Mayor you would continue for the two years and we have an alternate or we could  appoint reappoint you and then who would replace you and then also an alternate I would I don't  like that yeah uh my intention is to serve out the remainder out of my term along with my mayor  duties and then there would be a vacancy I think at that point you would be able  to the way I remember the rules being written because we voted on them as a as a board they  would uh yeah I think Commissioner Tolland could be the alternate until when when then when the  Mayor resigns or resigns from the board we could appoint Commissioner Tolland as the primary member okay thank you thank you so please call the vote  Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner Tolland yes Commissioner Sargent yes Commissioner Persis yes  Mayor Partington yes and thank you Commissioner Tolland for your willingness to serve uh 10D  resolution number 2024-160 a resolution accepting a proposal from Brown and Brown Insurance Services  Inc for the provision of property liability and Workers Compensation Insurance for various lines  of insurance coverage through various insurance carriers including property Inland Marine Auto  physical damage excess workers compensation crime accidental death and dismemberment police officers  and firefighters National flood insurance program nfip flood pollution professional liability EMTs  and paramedics general liability including law enforcement liability tenant and user liability  tulip special events cyber liability and active shooter liability insurance authorizing the  execution of documents relative theret authorizing payment therefore and setting forth an effective  date this is resolution number 2024-160 read by title only thank you Susan and I'll ask our  finance director Kelly McGuire to speak on this item thank you very much we received two proposals  for our insurance our fee one was from Brown and Brown for $1.5 million and the second one from  Foundation Risk Partners that was $1.65 Million neither provided the flood insurance information  because the rates were not available at the time but the proposals were open we have received that  since then so that adds $20,000 to each of these two proposals in addition to that there were four  coverages that we have listed here that Foundation risk Partners did not quote specifically they  indicated that they would assume our existing coverage so for purposes of doing an Apples to  Apples comparison you need to add approximately $30,000 for those four lines of coverage and so  there were two criteria that we used price was one with those additions the flood insurance and then  taking into account approximately $30,000 for the four coverages that were not specifically  quoted by Foundation risk Partners the difference is about $180,000 between Brown and Brown and FRP  so price was 50% of the criteria obviously Brown and Brown received the 50% on that the  second criteria was qualifications so we looked at not just the qualifications of the firms but we  looked at the qualifications of the underlying trusts so PID and FMIT the firms both highly  qualified obviously they've been in business a long time certainly the individuals that are  in those firms are highly qualified and capable of providing the services we need we looked at  at the underlying Insurance trusts Pidge and fmit both of those are financially sound firms capable  of paying our claims so for the purposes of qualifications we deem them to be equal so  our recommendation to you is to award to Brown and Brown because they have the lowest premium  I'm happy to answer any questions and we also have Steve farmer here from Brown and Brown if you have  questions on their proposal thank you Kelly if we have questions we'll come back to you okay thank I'd like to First just um that I will be turning in my Form 8 abstaining from voting  on this item as I work for an insurance company that's participated in the bid process I did  speak with uh the Florida ethics commission who advised me that I could participate in  conversation but to abstain from voting so thank you Mr Mayor thank you commissioner tolland yeah  I submitted my form to city clerk prior to the meeting um I just want to put on  record that I had contacted the Florida um ethics commission and spoke with an attorney  gray schafer concerning this resolution um he um advised me that I may participate in discussion  only and may not vote in the floating conflicts are cited on 112. 3143 sub3 and  sub4 of the Florida Statutes 2023 thank you so Deputy Mayor Briley commissioner Persis and myself  will be the only ones voting on this item and uh with that we have four cards starting with Tom Leek thank you just to make clear I'm here in my capacity as the chief legal officer of foundation  risk Partners you know RFP is is proud to be an Ormond Beach uh based company we have a 120  employees right down the road uh and we have proud to be nor of each success story we've  risen to be the 20th largest Insurance Agency in the United States in only seven years but what  the reason I'm here is because when I heard that the city through staff may find that compliance  with Florida statute 28713 was no big deal or not complying was immaterial it caused me a great deal  of concern Florida's foreign countries of concern act or anti-corruption act you may have heard  mandates that a governmental entity may not accept a bid on Pardon Me or proposal from or reply to or  enter into a contract which would Grant The Entity access to an individual's personal identifying  information unless the entity provides that the governmental entity with an affidavit sign by  an officer or representative of the entity under penalty of perjury attesting that the entity does  not meet any of the criteria in paragraphs uh 2 a through C I can say with some degree of certainty  that the legislature deemed that material it it it's alarming that we would try to write that out  of the provisions this is not an acknowledgement of loss runs this is an affidavit under penalty of  perjury and the law says if you read it that you cannot accept a bid or proposal unless the entity  provides the affidavit so you need to ask yourself tonight did the city accept a bid where the bidder  had not provided the affidavit did the city accept a proposal where the bidder had not provided the  affidavit if the legislature intended to solely bar you from entering into a contract with such  an entity that would not have added the language prohibiting the acceptance of a bid or proposal  proposal by Brown and Brown in question is by Statute non responsive and should be  thrown out following me and allow me to make some introductions following me will be Joe thacker from  Nelson Mullins who's outside Council for us she's been practicing in this area for over 30 years  was the osceola county attorney for 13 years and she could give the rest of her resume David lodwick uh  mayor of Royal Palm Beach for 11 years chairman of the Florida Municipal Insurance trust for 5  years years he can give you the rest of his resume and Alan Flores Allan served as deputy director of  legislative affairs for governor Bush and also served as a Special Assistant for two years in  2005 Allan started a career in Insurance where he oversaw the Daytona Beach office for Brown &  Brown and oversaw its public entity Division and presided over a period in which the public entity  revenue for that division doubled in size in 2017 Alan Flores helped with the formation of FRP in  its sales apparatus he is currently the chief sales officer of the company thank you thank you next is Jo thacker good evening Jo thacker 390 North Orange Avenue Orlando uh thank you for the opportunity  to speak with you tonight I would like to actually Focus my um address on the resolution before you  there is a whereas Clause that states that a second alternative is neither authorized by nor  consistent with the RFP and further that your code of ordinance prohibits the consideration  of evaluation of factors that are or criteria that are outside the scope of the RFP your RFP language  that guides this process actually provides in the general information they want the same coverage as  you have existing but in the very next paragraph of that under extent of coverage and options it  states that the city is requesting proposals that that the uh for several types of policies and the  only thing they really need are the policies and the premiums that go with it that then the  city would decide on the coverages um and so the resolution that says that it's not authorized or  outside the scope is actually incorrect further the resolution references the code of ordinances  that prohibits the evaluation of factors that are outside the scope so for those same reasons  should be but it also says that it should consider the cost and the completeness that was referred to  before both are 50% of the consideration so I have no idea why your resolution further goes  on to say that it can't evaluate the secondary alternative proposal that was provided because  your scope of the RFP actually calls for it so I feel like you're required to consider it pursuant  to those two factors I'd also like to point out that your code provides that all specifications in  an RFP shall be drafted so as to promote overall economy for the purposes intended and encourag  comp uh competition in satisfying the city's needs and shall not be unduly restrictive and  that's straight from your code on the completeness of The Proposal staff failed to state that all of  the required forms were not initially completed by the other proposer but they were allowed to  present those after the fact um there's nothing in your code that states if this is something  staff can actually do and it should be addressed in your code and set forth in the RFP and neither  are there so as representative Leek clearly pointed out the leg legislature thought this  was so important that an uh part of the statute that became effect of January 1 2024 requires  with a bid that that affidavit be um submitted uh it was submitted after the fact just last  week finally the resolution states that um the quotes for certain items thank you thank you David lodwick good evening mayor members of council uh my name is David lowig to just as background  yes 11 years as mayor I did chair the fmit board also spent seven years as the Director of member  services for the league of cities and negotiated reinsurance contracts on behalf of the league I  would like to focus real briefly on option two that we provided your staff covered our our  primary option option two offers you a dedicated limit of insurance just to you not shared with  other cities as part of a program is a $35 million limit how do we come up with that that exceeds a  one in 1,000 year event that could hit the city 1 in 1,000 the FEMA standard is 1 in 250 so our  option two is less risky represents four times both the FEMA and Florida condo law recommended  limits and saves you an additional $42,000 under the competing bid this type of option is utilized  by many cities we'll have a handout to share with you North Miami Beach Winter Park multiple  cities up and down the State of Florida utilize this program this is a dedicated limit why does  it matter I'm going to quote Chris prepco he is the chief of insurance for the league of cities a  friend and he's getting ready for board meetings this week first and foremost the league offers  a dedicated limit because it's the right thing to do cities buy property insurance from us and  trust that they may be made whole dollar for dollar after a major loss two of the three Pro property  insurance programs offer shared limits second we would not want to offer the city a property  insurance coverage with would not want ourselves as you know we purchase hundreds of millions of  dollars of property reinsurance coverage each year so that we can offer dedicated limits to  our clients none of our reinsurance contracts have shared limit Provisions they're dedicated  to the fmit and therefore our members it does not seem fair to charge the property coverage  we offer to our members by inserting a shared limit provision On a related point would you buy  homeowners from a carrier that tells you that your claim payment depends on how many claims  other people have in the state and the possibility you might not get paid lastly fmit can do this  because among the three trusts they're in a unique financial position to be able to  do so their net position is in excess of $130 million where the largest competing trust has  a net position excuse me of about $36 million when you're four times larger and you want to do  it for the right reasons that's what you do I'm here tonight specifically if you have questions  on this issue later I would be more than happy to assist thank you very much thank you and Alan  Flores thank you Alan Flores 225 Landmark Circle thank you mayor thank you Commissioners thank you  City staff I would like to thank Kelly McGuire she gave me a call on two occasions and we did discuss  this ma matter at length she didn't rush me she gave me an opportunity to explain where we are  obviously we've agreed to disagree and that's okay uh except that she's also told me that we had an  opportunity to present to you today the reason why we believe that you should consider our option now  to reiterate representative leek's uh statement we do believe that in the interest of bid fairness  and showing a assigned to the vendors vendors whether it's insurance or not you have to follow  rules you don't follow the rules then then you are disqualified in fact when I ran Brown and Brown's  public entity division on two occasions our firm was disqualified because we did not respond to an  affidavit these things are important especially one related to a foreign corruption act but more  importantly and because of my expertise and my history in this business specifically with public  entities I would say to you this is a better option it's a better option because the way that  you have to look at it and if you look at Pages two and three of the handout that we provided to  you you'll see there that we tried to simplify it for Lay people because we have made a business of  complicating insurance and we're sorry for that but the the reality is is that FEMA oir Carriers  Industries we all purchase insurance based on the the um risk factors and so this is less risk  more savings it's less risk because again the standard that is used is is it a 1 in 250 limit  is it a 1 in 500 event it is a one and uh 1,000 1 and 5,000 what I did was showed you a graph that  has an equivalent Category 3 category 4 Category 5 storm so to put it into layman's terms that's  what a 1 in 250 1 in 500 1 in 1,000 mean if you go with our option you are buying a one and two  one in one ,000 probability factor that is all your own so when a claim occurs and unfortunately  it will when it occurs you don't have to share it with eight other municipalities in volusia county  and hundreds of other public entities in the State of Florida it's yours theirs is less it's 1 in 250  why is it 1 in 250 because you have to share it because it is a truly shared limit that's  not me saying that although I am an expert on it because I presided over it for 10 years it's it's  a disclaimer in their proposal and on page three that disclaimer is written there so again thank  you for your time we believe that we're doing the right thing by offering you this option and we are  proud to present that to you as a testament to how hard we want to work on your behalf thank  you thank you and Kelly do you want us to go to you or Steve you wna take a swing on your  proposal okay do you have anything else I'm happy to answer any questions questions commission any questions you guys can participate you just can't vote correct so feel free if  you have have other if you have questions I don't have any other I'm concerned with  the the points that uh representative Leek brought up I just want to make sure that  everything is first of all that things are in compliance I think they are now if  we accept the Affidavit of compliance that was submitted on September 9th is that correct  right you were included two two additional items that's the affidavit um and then the  acknowledgement of I believe it was addendum one or two I can't remember which one those  were included in your packets those were not received as part of the original packet they  were received afterwards okay and now also confirm I didn't see that but I just want to  make it's like the last page and also the last two pages right I don't know that it's a big deal but  the notary put her her commission expires 924 2024 but on her stamp it says it expires September 28th  2024 that may have just been a clerical error but did you have a question when were the bids due let's see I'm going to have to look um need to go back to the original RFP June 9th now in The Proposal just to be clear the the deadline in the RFP was June 9th but we extended  an additional week because we took questions and then we answered the questions and we wanted to  have we wanted to give the proposers time and I don't think we had a quorum or there was something  else too yeah we to vote so I understand that um on the proposal for Brown and Brown on page  36 I noticed that the storage tank policy they had effective dates of 429 23 to 24 did those policies  renew those policies will not renew until April so they were not specifically included here but  on their proposal that the dates that they showed were 4 uh 23 to 24 so those dates were incorrect  the last renewal was April of 2024 correct okay but I'm just saying that in The Proposal that I  was looking the dates were wrong okay um and I think that it's just it's kind of confusing with  the way that municipality Insurance works that I've just kind of looked up some things that  the city's coverage is excess coverage so it's a lot different than us buying homeowners insurance  or car insurance and you know we're buying excess coverage so it's this is a lot different and as I  read the disclaimer about the preferred government insurance trust insures $680 million in total  insurance values in blushia County um in the event of An Occurrence so if we had Like a Hurricane  Andrew or a catastrophic event there could potentially be no coverage for the city of Ormond  uh for the city of Ormond just something that I was reading in the proposal and I think that's all my  comments for tonight Mr Mayor thank you thank you commissioner Tolland I have a couple comments um first  thing I would just want to put on the record that the residents will enjoy the Ben benefit of this  competitive process you know this is one thing that us up here have tried very hard um to not put  things just on consent agendas or at least look at the bidding process keep it transparent keep  it fair make it competitive because at the end of the day our residents will be the ones that are  the winners in that um you know I I know that our rates have increased over the last few years um  without this process or without bidding it out and I just think it's a little curious that this year  we have um come up with a bid that's $300,000 less than last year when all everything else is  increasing in life um I will say I I I had some insurance kind of questions but my brain doesn't  really handle all of that but what I would what it does handle is is um bid fairness this is my  takeaways following rules I'm a real big rule follower and if we don't have the proper um if  we didn't follow the proper rules I think that's a problem and I think that sets us up for um issues  down the way down the road um and then I also just question that less risk better priced and  that not shared policies I um I did not realize until I just saw the handout how those policies  work so I have a lot of questions and I don't feel like I'm smart enough to ask those questions but  I do have questions sure you are do you want to so for now that's that's it right now I want to  hear rest of you all Deputy Mayor briley well I I I concur with commissioner tolland um I do  have a lot of questions um especially some of the points that brought up this evening but I I too am  concerned with the shared the shared limit shared payment the shared program rather um I I kind of kind of kind of on the side of the the the one of the Thousand Year storm event but I would like to hear more commissioner persis I just want to say both of these for these businesses are such  well respected businesses in our area so this is I think this is tough I mean I think this is a  tough thing to sit up here and and do it's ve very difficult um because I know nobody wants  anybody to be caught without money or being able to P pay any kind of insurance fee so this is I  think this is really really hard but I think we just have to look at the facts I'd like to  ask Randy if you have any anything you would like to say about what you've heard tonight  well I think what you have before you is uh the U best recommendation from the program committee  that heard the presentations and is making the recommendation um I U was not present at the  presentation uh as part of that um um committee um my understanding that in the um as is a customary  practice in uh the solicitation of bids and proposals that historic and customarily that uh  in order to for the staff to make sure that it has received the best responsive bid that it believes  in the best interest of the city uh it has the ability under the code under the language of the  code and I don't have the sections in front of me to um um discuss um with um proposers  of bids and proposals any irregularities or um other matters that may need some clarification  and that is customary to allow them in certain instances to U provide an affidavit for instance  in this instance and so that's what the staff did that is customarily what they would ordinarily  do so what you have before you is their best recommendation uh from the program committee  ultimately this commission gets to make that decision and if you agree with the staff's  recommendation then you should make a motion in a second to approve the resolution that has been  presented and is in your agenda because it's based on the recommendation of the program committee if  you do not agree with that um recommendation and you want to um award the proposal to um  Foundation risk partners then we'll need to go through this resolution and make some amendments  to it so the process would be to make a motion in a second to get it on the floor for discuss  purposes and then we'll um need to discuss the reasons why you wish to award uh the proposal to  Foundation risk partners and not Brown and Brown and then we can kind of clean that that resolution  up for you by way of an amendment which would require a motion to amend followed by uh a second  you would vote on the amendment and then you would vote on the or the underlying um resolution which  is typically how we do it here so we've got a little bit to get through first before we get to  that point and I don't know that we're done with all of the discussions here I I think the Brown &  Brown folks are here as well so they may want to address some of the questions um that have been  asked by the commission as well so I don't know if that answers your question specifically it help  yes thank you good deal and so we can either hear from Brown and Brown now Steve I guess that's you good evening everyone Steve Farmer brown & Brown Executive Vice President 105 Riverside Drive as  well longtime resident here in the city of wman beach we've we do this all the time I have served  at the pleasure of this commission for almost 20 years uh and have worked very closely with  your insurance committee over that time I would tell you this uh I've worked with a lot of public  entities I had the great opportunity of working with Allen for a long long time uh this is the  most the best insurance committee I've ever worked with the most conscientious Insurance committee  I've ever worked with and I can tell you that in working with them through the years meeting  with them as many times as I have they really understand insurance now as far as PID goes Pidge  has been a partner with the city of Ormond Beach for almost 15 years uh they do have a shared limit  program they are very transparent about that they buy a limit of insurance for their group that is  equal to what the wind modeling says in the 250e storm they're absolutely right I would tell you  that the the greatest test of insurance program is has it performed and it has performed not only for  the city of Ormond but for all its members for a long period of time and I can tell you and as we  all know it has been tested there have been a lot of storms that have come through Florida and not  only has PID performed from the limit that they buy for their members but they've also performed  from their claims handling and that's one thing that that when we talk about these kind of  processes and I appreciate the process I welcome the process commissioner Tolland you're absolutely right  there's nothing that gets insurance carriers moving more quickly than competition absolutely  and we've talked about that with the insurance committee on the topic of loss limits versus  full limits loss limits are are can't they have their place generally buying a lower win limit  than you have to Total insured value is done out of necessity because you can't buy up to your  total insured value which you're able to do with both pidget and the fmit program we have discussed  loss limits with this insurance committee every year for the last 10 years as the property Market  has has gone up and you're absolutely right your rates have gone up over the years and we  have tried our best to manage it we have we have delivered quotes on loss limit programs we have  delivered alternative risk programs s uh and pidet has always been the best for the city of Ormond  Beach not only from a pricing standpoint but from a claims handling standpoint and I would also  add that the risk manager for the city of Ormond Beach uh who has since retired uh hope Christina  is enjoying her retirement but was a on the member advisory committee for Pidge for a very long time  she was a part of the decisions that were made on behalf of the trust throughout the years and we've  offered that to the city of Ormond Beach I'm I'm not sure who's going to catch the insur Insurance  Hot Potato but uh whoever does is going to get the opportunity to sit on that board as well so  we responded to an RFP we responded to the letter of that RFP and we delivered a program that is  well known to the city of of ormond Beach uh provides incredible coverage to the city of ormond Beach and  yes about $300,000 of savings to the city of ormond Beach and we're very proud of that and I would  tell you that it's not competition is part of it commissioner tolland but the market believe it or not  is improving especially in large commercial property and I'm not going to Pat myself on  the back but I've been in this business for 30 years I have some pretty strong relationships and  believe me as a resident of City ormond Beach and as someone who grew up here I call in all  the favors I can on behalf of the city so we're proud of our response we're proud of what we've  delivered your insurance committee has recommended it and we hope that this commission will accept  that and I'm happy to answer any questions that you have thank you Steven any questions for Steven NOP not at this time thank you sir thank you very much okay just to piggyback  on what commissioner tolland said I'd like to go back with some historical data on  2015 our insurance for the city of ormond beach was $691,000 Ur a 43% increase which bumped our insurance up to 1.2 million then we sent it  out for bid and the residents of ormond beach are going to see a $300,000 decrease so the process  works like you said commissioner tolland on on competition and and bidding these big projects  or big line items if you will um out so I just those were the historic data that I had from  the finance director and just wanted to share that and I promise that's my last comment for tonight Kelly I'm going to ask a couple questions if you can help me out um what did the program  committee even address the issue as far as the Affidavit of compliance the program committee  did not the purchasing department did okay and as Randy said they followed their typical  procedure all right and uh tell me this on the shared limit versus name storm limit what was  the program committee's thoughts on that the program committee discussed that um and really  there are a couple of thoughts on that first of all we have as as Steve said we have talked  about that for the last 10 years so that wasn't something that we were particularly interested  in considering that's number one number two it's not consistent with our current insurance program  and that is part of the issue here is that a $35 million sublimit is not consistent with our  particular program that we have and the RFP called for proposals that were equal to or comparable to  right so that's our scope of service we're working with and that's why we really didn't consider  that we considered the primary proposal the 1.65 million proposal say it that way so we're clear on  which one I'm talking about and we didn't go into a lot of conversation about the other one because  from our standpoint it didn't meet the scope of service I will also say and this is true of all  of our proposals when we do an RFP we don't allow a proposer to give us 10 different options right  they we don't allow that unless we specifically ask for it in the proposal they give us one option  every proposal proposer gives us one option and we evaluate those so the the concern we have here  I I suppose is the best way to frame it is that we didn't ask for sub limits we didn't ask for  other options right there are insurance companies out there or agents of record out there that may  have provided us proposals Beyond Brown and Brown and and uh Financial risks so that is the concern  that I will um talk about with respect to being in charge of purchasing right we tried to Define that  scope of service so that we are are comparing Apples to Apples not apples to Orange because  then the evaluation becomes extremely subjective all right and it I mean it's fair to say we want  the absolute best coverage for our residents for the lowest possible cost okay and both of these  firms are equally highly qualified to deliver that correct they're very qualified in the underlying  Insurance trusts you know we have no concerns about them paying out cents I just I'm looking at  uh Fort Meyers Winter Park Northport North Miami Beach not slouches of cities that have gone with  uh the Florida Municipal Insurance trust highly respected um and so I'm not sure I understand why  the committee wouldn't accept differing proposals I mean where we going to get caught in a problem  going with similar Insurance programs to these other cities that have not had a problem with  them I mean Fort Myers was just hit with Ian a year and a half ago I don't think they had any  issues with fmit from everything I've heard um I was just down there on a coastal resiliency  seminar listening to how they recovered and didn't hear any any problems with with their insurance  but I guess that's what I'm trying to get to is the the absolute best coverage for the lowest  possible price and you're saying the 35 million per limit somehow doesn't provide that no what  I'm I'm not saying that the 30 I'm not saying that I'm saying that the scope of service was  not written to include that right it wasn't it was written for our insured value of 163 million rough  with no sublimit okay that doesn't mean a sublimit isn't something we should consider right but  the problem we have is the scope of service was written a certain way so now it becomes difficult  now to try to bring that back in because Brown and Brown certainly could have provided as a proposal  for subl liit whether the amount would have been more or less I can't tell you because we don't  have that information and there may have been others that would have as but so it's more of a  procurement issue than it is uh an issue whether you know 35 million is not an appropriate limit  for us okay in either case we have of course in addition to insurance we have feed the just now commission any other questions or concerns commissioner persis I I think one of my main  concerns is just the the storm event because you know we never know what's going to happen and we  want our residents to to be safe and we want to be able to pay for anything that would happen so I'm  that is one of my concerns there is that that the Brown and Brown doesn't offer the one in  1,000 versus the one and 250 I think that's something that we need to think about commissioner tolland say so your your Apples to Apples and then the extras the extra things um because we've done it a certain way in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't open our mind to  look at all the different things out there like cyber security is big now I know that that's been  addressed but the world is changing and our needs are changing so I'm just wondering if  there's a way that you can just look or maybe you did looked at the apples and then the extras and  then who can provide the residence with that best product um I'm not sure we're comparing apples St  well and that's what I'm afraid of as well and maybe it's the process that's flawed and not the  the actual products that were presented right so you can help me Mr Mayor if I may sure um we  do bring the RFP to you before we let that out to bid so we brought the RFP to you with  the indication that we were going to pursue the same coverage that we had last year now  I don't have a crystal ball and neither one of nobody here does um I agree with commissioner  tolland that the city benefited greatly through the competition of this process but if you are  wishing to seek a higher limit and get a lower rate that is the direction you give to Mr Hayes  and he can give you some information on that but I just wanted to be clear that it wasn't  that we didn't think of it it's just that and it's not the way that we always do things that  was the process that we were going to follow okay and that's what we did it wasn't like Mindless so commission I again I just don't think you know when you're looking at 1 and  250 and one and 1,000 you're not apples and apples um I don't think it's Apples  to Apples either I mean I prefer more Insurance you know that we can I mean well I mean you have two highly qualified companies right uh some little abnormalities  maybe in each of the uh processes of how it how it got here uh but the lowest cost does  appear to be FRP unless I'm if I'm missing something Foundation risk has the lowest cost I thought it was brown one 1,481 789 is is f frps with the $35  million limit and then Brown and Brown is5 22930 um as bid 41,000 and change you're looking at the total at the total premium at the bottom correct Randy  may I ask you a question or Mr Mayor sure so how concerned are you about us not following the rules  with the affidavit being included in the packet well I think it's a matter of interpretation so  um under the statute they do have to provide an affidavit uh and the affidavit was provided it  was provided after the fact and this is something that I think is allowed by the code it's something  that historically and customarily is done um or Allowed by um the um evaluation committees on  lots of different bids and proposals now you're free to make a different determination and treat  it differently so I think what the staff and the program committee did is they gave you what they  believe to be their best recommendation um you ultimately make the final decision and you can  agree with that recommendation or you can disagree with it if you disagree with it you need um to  help us understand the basis for that because we'll need to work that into the resolution  that you will need to approve um accepting this proposal and awarding the contract essentially the  reason for that is any expenditure over $25,000 must be approved by written resolution so we're  going to have to fix this on the Fly this evening if that's the way that you're leaning um I think  that um the again the the resolution was prepared based on the staff recommendation and their um  um um evaluation analysis of the proposals were based on the current lines of coverage  and ordinarily when a bid or proposal is issued uh it will expressly State whether alternative  options are allowed or not and it was not um it was not it didn't expressly state that in  those terms in this proposal what it did say was we're soliciting proposals based on the  existing lines of coverage and coverage amount so from the staff perspective they were trying  to do an Apples to Apples comparison because that makes it easy for the commission had the  staff um um if they desired to solicit additional proposals the RP would have expressly stated that  now what you got was a proposal from Brown and Brown there's a question about whether  the affidavit was timely submitted and whether or not that should operate as a um as a um um  rejection of their B being non-responsive if you will and if that's the case then the question is  which of the two proposals from uh Foundation risk Partners um should you accept um I think based on  the staff recommendation it would be the option one which which omits certain lines of coverage  because they were not soliciting proposals for other variations now you can agree or disagree  with that interpretation as well but that's staff's best recommendation to this commission  ultimately you will make that determination and then we'll do our best to put this resolution  together for you does that help I think it does um well the lowest lowest is foundation  right and if I can ask a question of Mayor Ludwick and then I'll Steve I'll allow you to respond as  well uh you started to cover it I don't know if you had enough time in your three minutes but the  shared limit versus the named storm limit can you tell me uh your opinion of which is best um one  Mr Mayor members of council again thank you you tell me what happens I'll tell you what's best I  think that's fair in Insurance Steve in the event and and another reason why shared Lumen is a very  very relevant discussion for the city of Ormond Beach as I sat with reinsurance companies and  Underwriters in London and we discussed modeling one of their first discussions  is where do you have high concentrations in value for most programs probably agree it's  Tri County Palm Beach Brower Dade that's where a lot of the values tend to be driven in the state  for whatever reason maybe because the headquarters are here there's a high concentration within Volusia  County and Brevard County within the pgit program shared limit only becomes a problem when you  get near or exceed the cap that is purchased so if it's 240 million I believe that was the number in  The Proposal I'm not going to try to quote that hardcore L St answer to that but as that number  gets approached reinsurance come stop paying because they've got to wait and collect all the  claims because anything that gets up to that 240 that's when they stop paying okay the 35 million  when you look at that as a percentage of your total values the one in 250 tends to run around  8 to 10% of a city's values that's a direct hit from a category typically a two maybe a two and  a half to three I went through a two in Royal Palm I I have a little painful experience from that the  dedicated limit is set aside to you the funds are set aside to you they buy reinsurance specific to  it and dedicate their own Surplus we know that's the number it speeds up payment the other factor  in the two programs because of the way the league is written with keeping risk able to write the  dedicated limit your property insurance adjuster is a league of Staff employee under shared limit  programs pgit will have claims Liaisons to assist you and they have adjusters that represent the  reinsurance companies different approach both work I would rather appeal to the league of cities  board on a claims issue they can go to mediation with a reinsurance company but shared limit works  until numbers get big then they become challenged and as it states in the policy when that limit is  hit of insurance reate the insurance company PG's responsibility would end the fmit would  end at the if you choose option two at 35 million because that's the limit that's being provided  or purchased specifically to you right I hope I didn't go astray thank you Steven did you want to respond it's not to argue with staff your proposal does ask for Alternatives  as pointed out by Miss thacker in her presentation right after the  paragraph that said apples to Apple said Alternatives we provided an alternative thanks this is fun right Insurance 101 yeah well this is much deeper than 101 I 102 501  yeah and and generally we don't want to do this right here right that's why we have  insurance committees and that's why we spend time in meetings and that's why we go through  processes and some very smart people sat in a room and made a recommendation but what I say  with this we are a shared limit program we are transparent I do not represent the league of  cities I have competed with them for many years uh 20 years to be exact I know them to be a  fine program uh there are some very smart people within the Pidget trust that run the pidget trust  that use data analytics and wind modeling to determine the limit that they buy for their  members and these sound bites are great in these kind of processes what I always try to do as the  insurance nerd that I am is get my insurance to to look at what has happened in the past  and then project that into the future the pidget program has always bought a a sufficient limit  for their members and they look at it every year they look at their spread of risk and they pay P  very close attention to their spread of risk and we have not even come close to exceeding the limit  that they've purchased for their members for the last 20 years what I would say to you about fmit  is that we have been handling the city of Ormond Beach now for 20 years and I I'm not going to say  how many times they've quoted but it's been very few and it hasn't been recently and Commissioner  Tolland this is indicative of of how the market has improved we are now seeing fmit show up in coastal  cities where they haven't typically been in our area at least which is what I will speak to so  you're you're looking at Apples to Apples they're both great programs with great great coverage I  would ask more questions about uh dedicated limits because I don't quite understand that but I don't  represent them I don't rep I don't understand how they can buy a limit they have Surplus Pidge  has Surplus I'm not sure what happens after the Surplus but I know Pidge has performed incredibly  well not only for the city of Ormond Beach but for its members and that's where I'm going to hang my  hat with that particular care and does pidget tell what limits they buy or do you consider  that proprietary 330 million of win limit for the members that's a shared forer it is shared yes  they're very transparent about that and honestly that's the way you get the pricing and and the  terms and conditions that you get no different than a large Commercial Business with billions  of dollars of total insured value buying 100 million or 250 million of coverage because they  can't buy $2 billion of property coverage here in Florida so they buy a what we call a loss limit  that's the alternate program that you're looking at with the 35 million that's buying less wind  coverage based on your specific risk and what we think your risk is in a particular storm year pick  the number but that is something as I said before that most insurance are forced into you don't have  to buy that unless it's really significant savings why would you do that and take the risk Commissioner Tolland so yes I do have a question for you Steve and for the ma for the mayor um  since we're talking about shared and dedicated how does that affect the level of service when  an event does occur in in the county and you have all these cities that how does does that affect  being a shared um group does that affect the level of service we're talking about money but that's  also very important we want to be the preferred well I would argue that you are for me anyway uh  I've been on the ground the minute of claim is hit in City Ormond so and I'm I'm right there  you know uh so but no I mean each each company has their own way of handling claims and again  that's something that I would say is I would ask whoever's been handling the insurance if Christina  were here she could talk about the level of claims handling that Pidget and their tpas have have given  to the city of Ormond Beach uh I can tell you I I worry about that very much when a claim hits I'm  my boots are always on the ground but we have made sure that pidge's boots have been on the  ground for you as far as shared versus a dedicated limit I don't have an answer for that question  when a claim happens I'm going to have adjusters out here and we're going to be working hard so I  don't know if colleague I no I I tend to agree the shared versus dedicated doesn't matter the way it  it did matter and I I'll speak to this mostly because I I signed the first contract with  the recovery company at the league at my last board meeting while I was chairing so Synergy  recovery is actually integrated with the League's adjusters they work on the same underwriting and  claims platform so the adjusters are on the ground in real time and when you talk about right after  a storm one of the things we learned and I was on the board in in 04 and 05 when we all got hit my  city got hit three times by the way the standing joke is since I left they haven't been hit so  I don't know what that says um but part of the biggest process we whole in the process is after  a storm your staff are all wearing five six seven hats they've got to roll up numbers to the county  within 4872 hours we've got to do this we've got to do that the hole in the donut seem to be who's  going to inspect our own properties how do we get those done so rather than tell you what the league  does City of Fort Meyers after being hit and hit badly with one of their department heads working  with Synergy staff boots on the ground within the first 24 hours had surveyed every single city  property within 48 Hours done damage assessments Real Time photos adjusters being assigned where  they were needed at at higher damage sites because you can also agree one of our biggest challenges  that you get an adjuster to show up and he wants to go to the building with minimal damage and  we've got to walk him over to the one that needs all the work um that's where synergy's integration  with the program it's a third-party vendor but it's a vendor who's taking the initial report  working in real time so when they take the photo and upload it the adjuster is actually at his  desk able to look at it and say go in addition the program includes $500,000 of mitigation coverage  we know that the claim will be less if there's enough money to fund immediate recovery you  got to get stabilize you've got to get tarps on buildings you've got to get things ripped  out that are wet and get dry this is outside of deductible that is upfront money and the league  does it different the dedicated is more about risk the league takes risk on the front in that makes  them adjust it but it means we got skin in the game with the reinsurance company a shared limit  tends to work with the adjusters and get claims paid it's just a different approach both work I  like boots on the ground but both work I've worked with standard carriers for 35 years it works probably off protocol but if I could ask Randy I would I would say  how has Pidget handled claims for the city of Ormond Beach over the past many years um on that specific question we we have had no problems with the service uh from pidet or from  Brown and Brown and um Steve and I have had some pretty deep philosophical discussions on the need  for excess liability coverage right so you know where I stand on that um but the the service  that we have had has been very good and um like I said I I wasn't at the at the presentation at at  the meeting for the presentations but understand that um you know both uh both entities are well  respected well qualified uh and I I would expect that service either one of them would be would be  superb but in answer to Steve's question we've had excellent service so thank you question for  Steve you made a comment that um the league hasn't provided or hasn't been competitive in the past  but when's the last time that the City of Ormond put this out for bid it's been 20 years hasn't  it no no no no no I'll let purchasing answer that question but we've been through many of  these bid processes in the time that I've been here it four years maybe six years somewhere in there yeah you have to remember I've been here a long time so uh we've been through many of these  processes and do we ever get more than just two bids to I mean have we been very competitive I  mean this has always been our struggle we don't get a lot of you know um action when we put bids  out so I'm just asking Kelly have we not in the past gotten many bids okay so that we're clear  when we've put out bids in the past they have't been bids they've been RFPs and they've been RFPs generally I can't say in every case but generally they've been RFPs for agent of record right so  you stay with the company but you just picking an agent we're we're asking for RFPs for agent  of record and I would say in the time that I've been here I don't recall getting any proposals  from from at least for the last 15 years from any other agents of record other than brown and brown Commissioner Sargent I have a question on that though because if one agent represents a certain carrier  and another agent represents a certain carrier how are we getting the best this agent can't go  to this carrier this I mean that doesn't really um benefit the residents of warming by doing it  that way I don't see it um because you're not creating competition just my see that  it was a different process before it was a different process fairness too um and you know  just in full disclosure I've been on I'm not now currently but been on the league of the Florida  League of cities in for eight years um up until August and then was on the executive committee  of the board for four years the last four years we would get reports on the uh Insurance Trust  and I was always blown away by how well they performed and particularly for cities I think  there's even a rebate that comes back to cities uh on the premiums a portion to the valua league  of cities um and so I'm confident either or can handle uh whatever the claims are  and that the one that works with cities the most knows uh how to work with cities  best and I think that's what the mayor was was alluding to but um so I'm honestly I'm comfortable  with either either proposal I I feel like maybe going with the less expensive proposal might be  better uh it is only for a year so you know this will be coming back to you in short order um Mr Mayor  if I'm reading this correctly um FRP is the lower of the two by about $41,000 40 yeah about $40,000  that's that's how I read it yeah is that correct Kelly did you get a copy of the information so I'm  not sure that we were provided I'm looking at I think that's the last page 40 $41,000 down at the bottom yeah this is this is just for a year and I you know I want  to spend taxpayers dollars wisely so I'm inclined to go with the lower lower proposal that is the 2024 $35 million limit correct correct you got the copy as well Joyce  thank you okay thank you if the if I may mayor sure if if the Commission's going to go that  in that direction we need to get clarified I I haven't had a chance to look at this particular  one but I'm assuming it's the same as their original proposal that this doesn't include  probably flood coverage and it doesn't include the other four coverages um that were part of  the memo so if you are going to go in this direction we want to make sure that those get  included in the resolution because staff cannot purchase those coverages without your approval  it's listed it is listed thank you listed okay Mr Mayor I'll make that motion second Mo so moved and  seconded any other questions comments or discussion Commissioner Persis wanted  to say something did you want to say something your you just okay thank you and being mindful  this is for one year and and again both companies are very well qualified but I you know this one's  just I say it's it's it's a little bit cheaper and I think it's worth trying so your motion is  an amendment if I understand it correctly Deputy Mayor and Randy's going to help you may sir  motion second solution for discussion purposes once you get that on the motion to so second okay to am this resolution and so there's a question there's a question about theing or determination on that question since it was raised or  do you want to accept the staff rece that after the as being compliant with requires of stat I don't it sounded to me that it was that after it was submitted we were they  were in compliant they were compliant after it was received yes and staff received it as  it customarily would um as part of the the process I think the question that Foundation  Partners has made this that uh it was untimely and therefore nonresponsive and therefore the  ground ground proposal should be rejected as not meeting thect requirs of r will um that wasn't  the staff's interpretation of that if that's not your interpretation of that then we don't need to  if it is your interpretation of that then we should probably include a recital within the  resolution to that and I clean that up that's why I'm asking the question on that right make  sense it does and Allen did you want to include anything I would include that in there I think  because it was late staff may do business that way I wouldn't recommend doing business that way and  uh so I would find that it was not in compliance at the time that they were supposed to be supposed  to be submitted as one of the findings um and then also the one two three fourth whereas uh  contract shall be made to the responsible offerer whose proposal is determined in writing to be  the most advantageous to the city taking into consideration price and evaluation factors set  forth in the request for proposal um I think the commission has the option and ability to  disagree with staff's analysis of that um noting that staff determined both companies to be uh  excellent and able to provide highquality service uh it would be really just a DI  disagreement between the shared limit versus name storm limit um that'd be one one of the findings and then you know looking at the Florida League of City's ability to uh provide  for their own if you will um it's really incredible the way that that the Florida  League of cities set up the municipal Insurance trust in a way that that benefits all of Florida cities  um and particularly in the for the purchase of in Insurance products um there's really I don't think  there's anything like it in the nation it's led to the Florida League of cities being the premier  league in the entire nation uh they do things they would blow your mind if you sat on that board and  listen to the presentations of the things that they do to benefit Florida's cities uh including  the insurance but but other things beyond that and um so you know I don't know that staff's  well aware of that I had a unique perspective on that for for several years but what else do you  need what else do you need right now um if you can maybe take a five minute bathroom break uh on  recess yeah we we can kind of get we can get it cleaned up and then um I can suggest some  changes to you as part of the amendment and then um um and then you can you can make a  motion and second the amendment and then we can finalize this all right we're in recess for 10 minutes session and uh the City attorney has brought a revised resolution to us and Randy  I'll I'll let you go through that yes sir thank you very much apologize it took a little longer  than expected um so what we ended up doing is just revising the resolution so what you have  before you is the revised resolution that incorporates um um the um findings that  the commission discussed before the break I'll go through kind of paraphrase for you  if you will um so we changed the caption so that it reads that here here you go uh it's a  resolution accepting a proposal from Foundation risk Partners public entity services for the  provision of property liability and Workers Compensation Insurance for various lines of  insurance covered so on and so forth um the uh warehouse recital on the first page I believe  are unchanged they were General findings on the second page um we did make some modifications  consistent with the direction of the commission um no change to the first Warehouse recital on  page two um or the second or the third the fourth whereas incorporates um no no change to the fourth  one as well um the fifth whereas is the finding by the commission finding the proposal proposal  submitted by Brown & Brown to be non-responsive because the affidavit requirement section 287.1384  statutes was not timely provided therefore the pro proposal submitted by Brown & Brown is  determined to be non-responsive hereby rejected um the next whereas finds it's the commission finds  proposal submitted by Foundation res part Partners as depicted on the premium summary attached in the  column headed 202435 mm limit to be the best responsive proposal to the RFP and at the best  cost for the city so we took the um the one page um uh from the um attached from from the material  that was provided at the de and it's that column in the far right is is what we're incorporating um no change to the last warehouse recital on that page over on the page three um no change  to section one section two includes a change it now reads the city commission finds and accepts  a proposal of foundation risk Partners is depicted on a premium summary attached here to in a column  headed 2024 35 mm limit to be the best responsive proposal to the RP and at the best cost for the  city and authorizes execution of all documents necessary to effectuate set insurance coverage  coverages for a one-year period beginning on October 1 2024 and ending on September 30th 2025  uh there's no change to section three or section 4 uh and that is um in summary in substance  the revised resolution has been prepared for the commission your direction so procedurally I think  um the way we can handle this is there's a motion and a second on the floor for the resolution as  presented by uh the staff so if the maker of that motion and the secondary of that motion want to  withdrawal the motion in a second that'll take us back to square one and we can start all over  again okay Mr Mayor I withraw my motion okay second so now we need a motion in a second to approve uh the  Susan do we need a a different number for this or just um probably so right a different resolution  number yes whatever you suggest I I I think I think we probably should okay okay um do you have  a number handy 161 161 so um we need a motion a second to approve resolution 2024-161 so move  second any and then mayor I'll turn it back over you and you can run the meeting thank you Randy  and uh Commissioner Sargent I know that there was a handful of policies that were being taken  over assumed by the new agent is there anything that needs to be done from the Das for those policies no those were included in the in the resolution so I'll coordinate  that with okay I just want to make sure that there was anything that  because we're on a time crunch with 101 coming so thank you any other questions  or comments I'll just say um honestly how uncomfortable this whole process was  you're working with people who have been uh customers of the city for years people who  have been uh colleagues and co-workers and have worked for competing Industries and before I came  tonight I had no idea how I was going to vote and I was you have a certain amount of dread when you  don't know um I landed where I landed based on all the information presented tonight um  and I will say that I believe competition is good I've always believed that so I hope that this is a  a healthy process going forward uh for continued competition because I think our residents will  benefit from that and I would just note that both companies are highly qualified highly successful  companies and uh don't want to lose that in in the scheme of things Deputy Mayor Briley I may I  just say I was I was pleased and more comfortable with the divine limit instead of the sh thank you  anyone else I just want to say I was I was very uncomfortable too because I've known people on  both sides for for years and I kind of had a sick feeling in my stomach really almost the  whole night so um I just I just want to put that out there that I think both both agencies are  highly respected and um I just want to leave it at that thank you very good and I believe  that Deputy Mayor Briley Commissioner Persis and myself are the only three voting on this item if  there's no other questions or comments please call the vote all right I will call all of the members  and then could those not voting you say abstain yes Commissioner Sargent abstain Commissioner  Persis yes Commissioner Briley yes Commissioner Tolland abstain and Mayor Partington yes thank  you all very much for being here and we will now go to reports suggestions and requests starting  tonight with city manager Joyce Shanahan um we've been here a long time Mr Mayor I'm happy to answer  any questions I do want to remind you that your your October the first meeting in October has  been moved to Wednesday due to National Night Out on Tuesday so your next meeting is 10-2-2024 and  if the commission has any questions of Staff we're having to answer those any questions uh  commission for the city manager thank you uh assistant city manager Claire Whitley thank you  Claire City attorney Randy Hayes nothing for me thank you mayor thank you Randy and tonight we  start with Commissioner Sargent all right I'll be brief it's already almost 11 o'clock this is the  longest meeting we've had um 911 uh the the event that the firefighters put on which they put on  themselves it's not City staff doesn't help them um they do it the walk up and down Marina Grande I  thought it was only once when I showed up and come to find out they do it four and a half times uh  Commissioner Persis and I did it once up and down we didn't take the elevator down um it was great  uh Crim Stoppers event was another uh great event that we had this past week with Officer Marianne  Mele if I'm correct um melee thank you uh great event to see all the officers that are nominated  for this great award just to hear everything that they do the officer that uh won the award for  officer of the year I mean he was responding to a gentleman that was getting ready to hang himself  and this officer pulled his vehicle underneath the guy and then cut him down I mean it was just  just to hear him tell the story is heartbreaking and glad that you know he was able to do it um and  I'll end with this Saturday Beach cleanup it's a national Beach cleanup uh I will be there with my  boys Saturday the 21st Andy armont Park 8 to 11 if anyone wants to attend and with that I'll say good  night thank you commissioner Commissioner Persis good evening everyone um I just wanted to uh say  thank you for mentioning that beach cleanup I've done that beach cleanup uh Commissioner Sargent  I'm going to be out of town well I'm going to be out of town so I'm not going to be able to make it  but I would normally be there so but I also wanted to say I'm disappointed to say I'm not going to be  able to attend the ribbon cutting for the newly renovated uh baseball field at NOVA community  complex I'm going to as I said be out of town but I know that's really important we've been waiting  a long time to get that field back so it's very very exciting and I just want to thank um uh Joyce  Shanahan hand I want to thank Shawn Finley for today we met with some neighbors on Hidden Hills and  looks like we may be coming close to a resolution for our pond down there and I just want to thank  you all so much for taking time with these people they're great people and um and you just made  them so happy so I just I just really appreciate that very very much and yes Comm U Commissioner  Sargent and I did go up one flight and down one flight and when I got down to the bottom my legs  were shaking and I really thought I was in good shape but I tell you what that is a that is a  tough thing to do and those firemen they they they had all their equipment on I mean and not you know  I had no equipment on so uh but it was it really made you think about what those men went through  that day and that didn't come that didn't come home it was um very touching but I just can't  it was just a great experience so I just I think they they did great job putting that on and then  we just swore in two new police officers in the city of Ormond Beach and I don't remember their  names right now but we're very happy happy that they're with us and it was a great celebration  and their families just seem so happy so um I just um I think it was just a great time love seeing  our First Responders and police get get all the attention they deserve and thank you everyone have  a good night and be safe thank you commissioner Deputy Mayor Briley thank you Mr Mayor I won't U  uh be long I concur with Commissioner Sargent on the Crime Stoppers uh dinner it was a very nice nice  event and congratulations to our officer officer Mele for being uh being nominated um I also attended  with Commissioner Persis and Commissioner Tolland at the swearing in of our three new officers two  were there one was apparently absent um we want to welcome them to our Ormond Beach family um it was  kind of nice to see Sean Daly and Doug Thomas here this evening had kind of brought back memories of  the old planning board from about 20 25 years ago uh when we all served together and uh you know I  uh it it was just it was just just need um I was approached Again by a resident today in regards to  if there's any interest from the city commission I just throw this out there I've already sent a  letter uh if there's any uh interest in sending a letter on to the state as a commission regarding  the paving of the tomoka state park roadway so I'm not interested only because it's been it's  it's state property there's not there's really not much we can do about it so well and it's  12 years too too late I mean they started this process 12 years ago and nobody could have found  out and maybe brought the the objection to the appropriate governing entity at that time that's  that's one of the bigger problems that I have with it I mean the contracts have been let I  think all the design work and and Engineering has been done and so for us we never tell state parks  what to do even even ones that are only within our city I don't believe we've ever had any planning  or other kind of authority over a state park well again it was request by a resident so right I've  just passed a along yeah and I mean if we did we'd be extremely busy every time a resident requested  something that 50 people wanted out of a city of 45,000 people we'd be chasing our Tails trying  to get those letters out fast enough and and to what effect agreed I think this is this is one  of those that just kind of hits on with people so understood understood thank you m it's up to you  I am not in favor of that it's not our jurisdiction I just don't think that staff needs task on hand to write another letter I just I don't see the validity in it and  I think the residents need to go to who can make that decision it's already been made at  the state level and I just don't think we need to sub letters for every single thing possible  thank you and Commissioner Tolland stated her well thought out and actually re researched uh  opinion last last time that was the other thing I I really don't have enough information to launch  the attack without having maybe a workshop or something like that but it's already so far  down the road that the the only thing that could could possibly be why we would want to do it is  to ask the state to consider more of a SE more of a permeable permanent permeable product because  the the residents were complaining about flooding but I don't know if there's any validity if you  put a road one and a half mile paved it's this really going to affect the the flooding so I'm  okay with with letting it let the state handle it and let the the folks deal with the state if it's  you know it it like you said mayor it started a long time ago it's already been appropriated  it's already in the works and they did say that they were going to have that historic um  oversight to protect the land so I'm okay with it good deal anything else so my comment no I'm  good we'll go to Commissioner Tolland so I will not be redundant and I know um that I am notorious for  talking a lot but I will I will be quick I want to congratulate Evelyn on her meaningful career  and I wish her well on retirement I'm sure we all do that and I also want to congratulate um Mr Leek and all the legislators here you know for serving us well in our community um I did attend you all  didn't mention I'll mention the things we didn't talk about I attended the volusia city elected  officials round table and um we heard some really interesting updates from Advent hospital and from  Halifax from the Florida Department of Health and SMA and I just want to say that you know we're  very blessed to have these organizations in our in our community they all are doing a stellar job  addressing the needs of our residents um there was also a discussion on how um on and off beach  parking will look and um that is starting October 1st anybody in the audience that wants to look  at it there is a Volusia beaches app and you can register or you can register at Park volusia.org  um there will be a celebrate Volusia festival at the Ocean Center on October 6th I think that's a  Sunday afternoon from 2: to 5:00 and I did go to a Main Street meeting this Monday and um I  appreciate the fact that they're participating in our comp plan update they're being very active in  in all the areas um and just as a FYI Riverfest is coming up November 16th and 17th they are have  Main Street is having their annual meeting and celebration October 21st at the Ormond Museum of  Arts and Gardens at the rooftop they had that last year um they are going to be doing their public  art groundbreaking October 30th um at 10: a.m. at the casements and they and that will be kicking  off their sculpture tour November to April 1st um and I have two suggestions in whether if you  guys agree then maybe we can move this forward so you know how a lot of residents have come forward  come forward discussing issues with code enforcement and you know we we we've talked about  it a little bit but but not a lot so I'm wondering if a a pretty easy way of at least letting the  residents know we care and maybe adding some education to all of those that have moved into  our community new is just some social media news blast of what's allowed what's not allowed like  boats aren't allowed in your driveway or did you know you know so it's not like a specific person  we're pointing out it's kind of a generic thing if you guys think that's a great idea maybe staff  can talk to Jen if you don't that's fine all right can we do Target marketing no we can't  do Target marketing I'm good with that where's Jen she's not here Jen oh um what do you think anybody  else have any other comments on that I want think I want to think about I'll bring it up again and  then you guys can say what you really think you you go through different neighborhoods and you  see different things yeah that's true you know all right and the other brain storm idea I had  is I was driving today on um Granada and I was thinking about your mulch Commissioner Sargent that you absolutely hate and all the rain and how it falls off right so just did this in my yard and  it was very easy to do and it's containing the mulch is you use that very thin black trim that  doesn't stick up if you install it correctly it's very indiscret keeps the mulch up in the  medians and it could be a good fix for now until we take all the mulch out and put native plants  everywhere plastic on pie oh anyway it's just a thought and you all can decide if you think  it's a good ideal or not but I'm trying to just help you out and with all of that I will say good  night thank you commissioner and uh I'll try to get us out of here by 11 I just wanted to say uh  as far as the budget goes the 2425 budget is built around the needs and priorities of our residents  we all worked hard on that it ensures that Ormond Beach continues to be a safe and welcoming place  for families and businesses alike like uh a major focus is on public safety with investments in the  design of a new police department an Emergency Operations Center and the addition of nine new  police vehicles to keep our community protected beyond that this budget also invest in areas  that directly impact your daily life improving our Parks upgrading our technology to better serve you  and maintaining the highquality services that make Ormond Beach such a great place to live as a city  were committed to using these funds responsibly to enhance the Safety Services and overall quality of  life for everyone in our city and uh cities suffer inflation just like individuals do so  Ormond Beach is no stranger to increase costs we've held the line and held the line and held  the line on on taxes any kind of increases but at some point uh you have to make adjustments  and I would point out even though this year is an increase above the roll back rate the roll back  rate is a is a funky calculation and sometimes the roll back rate can be a huge increase in  taxes but by state law it's not defined as one in that particular situation so uh you know that  that's the one argument the other thing I would point out and I'm using Jim Cameron's uh budget  report chart that Ormond Beach is uh the lowest uh proposed rate  for 2425 at 4.09 of all of the other 16 municipalities and the county except for uh darn DeBary every year they bring in so much revenue from that power plant well good Poli and  no police good for their residents um yeah that's 3.40 is their is their rate proposed and that's  up you know really adjusted for inflation from 2.77 last year or what would be considered the  roll back rate so I think our staff really does do a phenomenal job trying to keep uh the taxpayers  dollars in mind and every decision that they do make and I just want to point that out uh every  once in a while you do have to have adjustments and there's continuing pressures associated with  all of the things that a city is is expected to provide so um I'll leave it I'll leave the  budget at that uh congratulations to yall for for getting that done and thank you to staff and all  their hard work and making sure it came together this year uh the firefighters men and women who  walked on 911 Remembrance Day really incredible uh 50 50 pounds worth of gear 60 pounds worth of gear  up and down 10 and some steps just mindboggling and uh you God bless them for that and for what  they do every day really police and fire uh being ready to serve at a moment's notice 20 247 365  and uh with that we are adjourned thank you All