##VIDEO ID:7mfsIuS-VLE## okay it's our um monthly city council meeting it's August 20th 2024 with that I do the roll call Mayor ior here P here Council Phillips here Council Richards here coun here all right um approval our agenda I just have one editorial on page two under water and sewer pen V from house is Friday September 13th versus 10 on second page top second page oh the open house open house is September 13th is a Friday it was the 10th we Bo it to the 13th I would like to add under new business discussion action contain the contracts under new business y what does that it be uh it's a discussion SL action pertaining the contracts the city contracts what contracts contracts [Music] B May the public hearing to B and make it a up to up session any other amendments none with all those in favor of approving or adding to new business rum number Ral B discussion City contracts in favor see saying I Roman well know Roman so who second that yeah I did with that our public for is next it's three minute time limit the city council welcomes encourages participation from community members please keep in mind that your comments must be part the city business and must adhere to data privacy rules no employees names May you please expect action from this Council this evening regarding your concerns to address the city council during public forum please step up the podium state your name and address and fill out the form uh provided and speakers will be recognized only once your time Li you will be timed begin speaking with a green card is raised yellow indicates you have 30 seconds left and the red card indicates you have reach your three minute time frame so with that 6:35 please come Brian button 940 Woodlands Lane Southeast dear city council later this evening you'll be having a close session regarding Outlet a that cedar Woodlands 2 currently owns the city is requesting that we turn over the septic field due to a development agreement that is signed back in May of 2013 between the city and Corporal investment of which our HOA had no prior knowledge of however our develop Vel agreement is is just like the cedar Woodlands one development agreement that the city willfully terminated upon request we are asking for the exact same thing we are questioned to maintain ownership of This Land Based on similar circumstances that the city allowed Cedar Woodlands one to maintain their septic field after they connected to the city sewer system in both the March 2022 and April 22 April 20 2022 City Council meetings the City attorney stated formally to stated to formally terminate the cedar Wen one development agreement this City attorney stated that he did not believe the ho is responsible for the developer original agreement and suggested that the city terminate the agreement part of the reasoning was that the developer was no long part of that and the HOA has taken over which is exactly the same as Cedar R too the letter was to be drafted to finalize the termination of the development agreement the mayor motion to approve and it was seconded the council voted 5-0 to approve the termination the discussion can be found starting at 3 32 minutes and 53 seconds on 419 2022 city council recording after reviewing both development agreements we believe that Cedar Woods 2 should have the same right to retain our subject Bill while the Cedar Woods 1 development agreement was never filed with the county unlike Cedar wen's 2 development agreement the termination letter that the city sent to Cedar Wen 1 addressed this exact issue as follows and I have a copy of it here in the event the October 31st 2003 developer agreement was recorded against the development property with the Olstead County record's office the city will sign a release of the same for recording purposes if that is the case please provide me a copy of the recorded development agreement including document number and our attorney will prepare the necessary release for recording these statements would indicate the city would move forward with determination regardless if the agreement was recorded with the county or not which should avoid any concern or or contention that cedar Wen 2 agreement was recorded we gladly provide additional information and context upon requests as you discuss the future of out I thank you second call for public forum J 1090 Cedar Drive I just wanted to provide additional context uh to what Brian bton just talked about uh regarding Cedar Woodlands to requests the city to maintain own ownership of the land where our drainfield was located When Ross Meer the developer of cedar wood to turn the land over to Cedar Woodland 2 HOA I was president at the time we were never told about any pre-existing development agreement in said Russ said he wanted to turn the land over to the HOA as a result we had the title legally changed we purchased insurance for the land and we continued to maintain it putting up fencing and mowing it for the past nine years it wasn't until 2023 when we noticed the HOA Covenant actually stated the land would be turned over with the city after sewer was connected at that time the HOA did seek legal councel to see if that could be updated which was done and filed prior to city sewer connection after this we also learned that cedar wood one had gone to the city to release its drain field and land back to Cedar Wood Cedar Woodland W HOA at no charge despite that they also had a development agreement in both cases Cedar Woodland W Cedar Woodland 2 the developer was no longer in business nor a part of the HOA therefore the City attorney headed by city council to terminate the development agreement for Cedar Woodlands 1 and keep the land with cedar Woodlands one H Cedar Woodlands 2 is just asking for the exact same thing we're asking for consistency in government policy and decisions we have been under the knowledge that we own the land maintain the land insured the land we are not contacted by the city to even transfer the land title until after we are hooked up to city sewer our motivation is actually not Financial in fact Cedar Woodlands 2 HOA wants to work with Hamilton or any developer that wants to develop that in the end I just urge the city council to be consistent with its past decisions on this same issue thank you for your time and your consideration like speak up for and ber this is my husband art we live at 810 Forest Lane Southwest we're here this evening to respectfully request the review the location of our curb stop we've had several of your um vendors that you suggested out to review our situation as well as we've had some additional vendors on our own come and look all of who agree that it's not a great situation um several of you in this room have been out there and reviewed it and um we just would like to talk have you reconsider where that's at um AR if you want to go into a little bit detail most of you or some of you that have been out there understand but just to bring some of the others up to you got a cur stop in front of a concrete Calbert which fill chewed it up jumping over it where the skid steer with tracks and put tracks on top of my concrete driveway broke that down what I'm suggesting to do the save money and I talked to Alex next door neighbor tonight he's got a real estate meeting I'm speaking for him he said that's a great idea we're going to drill three holes 8 feet down 8 feet wide not four or even live the only way Alex can drail from my property behind his property they took the curve stop and put it up on his property and where I want my curve stop is there too Alex said it shouldn't be in the ditch in front of that Calo so I'm posing to go ahead drill one hole where his curb stop is use the same hole we share the cost of that hole for only going to drill three holes set of four or even five the problem with his yard it's a swimming pool and if you back in there with the directional drilling the water's got to be hooked up there you didn't think about that I did and so we looked at it today I said that's the only simple thing to do to save money he was all in favor of that the cook is coming there tomorrow to look at it to see what they're going to do with it it doesn't make any sense to drill four holes when you set his curve stop back on top of the hill back 30 feet and mine is down in front of the C within 3 feet it's simple it's just somebody wasn't thinking and they didn't talk to us before they did it it's that simple thank you thank you third and final call for public [Music] four see that we'll close public hearing at 6:41 time is a public hearing a public hearing on a post sewer system Improvement that r b the state subdivision sanitary sewer systems [Music] improvements Joe you just want to speak briefly to it yeah have comments absolutely while we do have uh public hearing handout tonight and what I typically like to do is go through the the public hearing hand oute so every have one of these that wants one we did have a few over there there's probably a few extra uh Council also had the public hearing hand out in your packet um but the public hearing uh is part of the assessment process um and a few months ago we presented the feasibility report for an improvement to um serve Riverbend State subdivision with Municipal sewer uh currently Riverbend States uh is uh connected to a private uh sanitary sewer collection uh system that conveys waste water to a central private septic system that treats waste water on Outlaw a and really what we're here to talk about again tonight is how riverbed Estates could be served by the municipal Wastewater system and so uh we're really talking about 17 Lots uh that were planted in conjunction with States all of them have been developed uh and they're located along rwood Court Southwest um a little bit of background information as talked about in the handout uh in February 2022 uh riverb estate's homeowners association contacted the city of oronoko uh as we advance the Wastewater collection conveyance Improvement project and asked if they could be part of the project and at that time we said that we would look at that in the future and we would connect them uh when we had the ability to connect them and our SE system was active obviously that did happen here this last spring and the wastewater treatment plant began operation um subsequently I did talk to the city council uh earlier this spring um given the chance given the situation with Fitzgerald uh nearing completion of their sanitary sewer Force main work uh and we're also doing Street patching in town thought it was good time to um construct some of the infrastructure necessary to serve Rend States specifically the uh pipe in the road um and some of the Force main improvements so uh the council did approve that we went ahead and made those improvements uh we stopped short of serving Riverbend Estates uh wanting to go through the assessment process and public hearing process and that's again why we're here today um so we've done that uh the proposed sen the proposed improvements to uh transition or divert the Riverbend Estates Wastewater flows from the existing lift station which coms to the um septic system the private SE SE septic system is we would have to um construct some Force main uh that Force main would essentially extend from the lift station to the existing um gravity sanitary sewer manhole on Riverwood Drive Southwest some 400 450 ft away from the existing Li station um so in conjunction with that there'd have to be a street excavation that was done and a street repair that was partially done and will soon be completed um in conjunction with surface improvements uh Turf restoration top soil replacement those types of things uh then in conjunction with that uh as we approach the lift station we have to install um some valving and uh reconfigure how the three existing pumps within the lift station pump to um or discharge Wastewater currently they've discharged to three separate uh drain fields and we need to uh combine them within a manifold uh put valving on them so they can be isolated and then connect them to the one force ve that goes to the um gravity sanitary sewer system and so that's really the sanitary sewer improvements um in conjunction with that we need to make some modifications the existing lift station uh the existing lift station was constructed in about 2018 and is in really pretty good shape um but we do need to upgrade it uh in the sense that we need to or want to add an alarm uh with a dialer so that if there is an issue high water elev high water elevation power power volage something like that it provides um or it calls dials out and and provides City staff with an alarm so they know is something's wrong so that they they can react to that issue and address it uh the other thing is we need to install um an electrical um connection that allows us to connect a generator um if there is a power outage we want to have the opportunity to be able to use one of the Cities mobile generators to power that facility and we need uh to install the appropriate receptacle so that we can essentially plug that generator into the lift station and power it then we also have to do some other things about you know essentially diverting power installing a transfer switch and some other minor minor electrical improvements and so that really constitutes the proposed improvements so in total on the second sheet uh Roman nual number three you see the um project cost for the improvements if you kind of look down the line in that table you see the total estimated construction cost total about $155,400 uh we added a little bit of contingency and a factor for engineering construction Administration uh and the total project cost uh equals about $67,800 we have gotten a little bit more information from the contractor about the final electrical costs uh they're about $22,000 higher than what we estimated here so the project costs are probably going to go up about $2,000 um with that said we know what the project costs are we can uh the city has a policy of assessing uh these types of improvements to benefiting property owners in fact just in 200 um 22 we uh completed an assessment process for the larger Wastewater project uh and we're using the same methodology for the assessment here um so to that if you go down to item four and look at that table uh you can see how the assessments to the benefiting property owners are calculated uh the assessments are based on a per eru equivalent residential unit um basis and so essentially an equivalent residential unit is a single family home within that subdivision there are 17 equivalent residential homes or units or 17 homes so there are three components of the fee structure that we would be assessing to benefiting Property Owners first the Wastewater um investment fee the weight the plant investment fee the piff um in 2022 that fee was assessed to each eru at a rate of $3,439 um that's essentially the fee everybody's proportionate cost that connected to it plus all of the future connections over the 20 next 20 years to pay for the wastewater treatment plant um the trunk sewer availability charge the sack charge is similar to the piff charge everybody that connected to it or will connect to it pays that cost and essentially that's for the larger trunk sewer Mains uh the big lift stations um the conveyance components of the collection system so everybody pays that cost um note that it's been two years since those costs were levied uh or assessed to the benefiting property owners and the council adopted a policy that they increase 5% per year and so if we increase those fees 5% for 2023 and 2024 you can see that the piff is $ 3791 per eru and the sack is $1,346 per eru uh that brings us to the last line the lateral sewer connection charge well the lateral sewer connection charge simply takes the lateral sewer project cost that we calculated and documented above in table three that's 67,000 and we divide it amongst the property owners okay and so 67,000 divided by 17 is about 3942 so if you take those three numbers you add them up you get get an estimated assessment of about $979 31 um I expect that assessment uh will go up when the final project costs come in and we do the final assessment hearing later uh this fall probably by a couple hundred doll um the city is proposing to assess the improvements on a over a 10-year term at about an interest rate of 5% uh to the property owners and so not that it shows up like that but just kind of do the math um it equates to about 97 month and so um the total amount to be assessed uh and the assessment revenue generated from this project would be about [Music] $4,365 three million uh project and the city's local share of that project cost is about 11 11.3 million which has been financed to the public facilities Authority and and is being repaid over the next 30 Years um so I just again want to reiterate that this process and the methodology we used is consistent with what we used um in 2022 with some adjustments in inflation and in fact the rate that was assessed in 2022 was 1,800 and or 8,817 per eru so we're just slightly higher than that with inflation uh as it has been over the last two years it's understandable and and perhaps reasonable that it is where it is um that said the project schedule moving forward um we talked about the fact that in July July 16th we presented the feasibility report for the council the council ordered um the public hearing on improvements that's tonight uh these improvements are being constructed via a change order to the phase 1A project so there isn't a bidding process that we necessarily have to go through most of the costs that we're using are actual bid unit prices that um the contractor provided is in conjunction with the larger multi-million dollar project and so we do get a benefit in terms of the economy scale of the work that we're being that that the work that we're doing we did have a few items for example the electrical work we did have to get quotes from uh the electrical contractor but it's the same contractor that we used uh for all the lift stations and in fact the Waste Water treatment facility uh so they're familiar with what we need and uh what needs to be done um the next step in the process of course tonight you know this is the public hearing and this is an opportunity for the city to kind of present what's being proposed in the project cost and how we would assess it uh it's your opportunity to ask questions if you have any um [Music] um and and voice any concerns that you'd have kind of moving forward we're proposing to schedule a public hearing that public hearing would probably be about October 15th um and assuming that the council chooses to move that forward um we would anticipate uh the assessments beginning um or being certified to the county this this this year yet um and then they would appear on your property taxes uh over the next 10 years and so property taxes are paid in two increments a year and the first one's typically due in May and in this case it would be dueing May of 2025 um my contact information is on the public hearing handout um if you have questions uh certainly now would be a great time but if you want to reach out to me separately and give me a call or send me an email you're welcome to do that as well uh questions of the public or councel well I think we'll just go ahead and have our public hearing first from the public first then we'll Circle back around the council discussion then that was good so if there's anybody that would like to speak um for the public hearing this is an opportunity for you to come forward and ask questions or state your comments one we second call for public hearing please turn the podium I'm Brian Decker I live in uh Riverwood for and I'm president of the HOA and we're supportive of this as we have been and we've had dialogue internally about the numbers that Joe's provided previously and so far we're on board continue forward appreciate the support what was your street address I'm sorry 1494 Riverwood Court Southwest you second call for public for public hearing and third and final call for public hearing that we'll close the public hearing at 7:56 so um with that I um I'll make a motion to accept resolution 20 24-31 declaring cost to be assessed and ordering preparation of post assessment second then discussion by Council yeah what's the agreement on the drain field on that so the run into another drain field issue uh the agreement for the drain field I actually cut cut out the exerpt from the development agreement included in the um feasibility report if you want to read at verbatim but essentially it says that the developer is responsible for decommissioning that drain field so that means pumping and decommissioning it uh they retain the property ownership and they are free to develop that so I would expect that at some point they will subdivide that Outlaw it plat it subdivide it and redevelop it after the system is decommissioned and of course after we complete the connection which should be completed this fall how large how large is the drain field what the it's about devel uh the drain field is just under 40,000 square F feet so just under you know that creates a little bit of issue on that 20,000 square foot issue but it's really close um the developer is Paul Meyer of uh Myer Myer companies so technically I think the HOA if you look on the County's website is the owner but you have an agreement that you'll transfer that ownership back to the developer to decommission the facility as soon as you're on the hook take it from there once we abandon he's on the hook for everything at that point good question I have a question about can they prepa the assessment um they can um all of that type of information um all of that type of information will be provided at the assessment hearing um if you're interested in fact I've got the public hearing for the assessment in in on November 1st of 2022 contains all that information but the answer to your question is you can prepay the assessment and avoid any interest cost uh you have I think 30 days after the um no how long do you have link yeah you essentially have until the assessment certif I think so until about around December 1st or so I think but the the specific details will be in a sheet that gets mailed to you and will be provided at the public hearing or the assessment hearing so all of this stuff will get mailed to you again and all of the details the interest rate the term the cost um deferment options um prepayment options all of that stuff is is detailed out um in at length within the documents that email to you other comments questions the uh you're talking about another public hearing on October 15th that's an assessment hearing that would be an assessment hearing yep how did you say that that lot is where the current system is to uh if you're it's it's just a little over 40,000 square feet if memory serves that's Outlaw A and G there two outlaw well the city owns Outlaw g y and we would want to maintain ownership of out Lot G um but out lot a could be redeveloped essentially split into probably two lots and I think it's just under an anchor you outlot G more or less a utility is that what that is no it's an outlot it's a yeah it uh it's essentially an extension of the right of way if you will it's a very small piece um but there were some reasons that during the planning process that was outlawed and or uh designated as an outlot and then deed to the city so the city has titled to other comments sitting done take The Voice vote resolution i c pend I coun Richards ioun pH Phillips hi coun de hi so we'll proceed with construction of the remaining you know the final connection the electrical improvements I guess that's the council's intent yeah I guess that's included in the change order too which we'll approve tonight so that makes sense okay thank you sorry okay next item is our um 2023 finel AUD Andrew from here we have copies in front of council members thanks for having me tonight I with Smith schaer and we were contracted to form the audit for the city of oron unle for the year ended December 31st 2023 uh I did hand out to council the actual audited financial statement um and then also a PowerPoint in there and then of uh letter as well so uh we'll start off with the PowerPoint here we're not going to walk through the actual audit we did sit down with members of uh City uh management uh last week and went through the numbers and finalized the numbers everything comes directly out of that audited financial statement into the PO point so with that said we'll slip to slide two there so our audit opinion is a clean unmodified opinion which means we believe everything is fairly stated in accordance with gap it is the highest level of assurance you can receive on the finan finial statement um it provides reasonable not absolute assurance that the financials are proofing material in the statement as we do not look at every single transaction that occurs throughout the year we take a risk-based approach and make selection based off those perceived risk with that said anything that we did request for supporting documentation what provided to us so we could recogniz throughout the year financial statement that I did mention uh we did sit down with Jason and Renee on August 13th and went through the financial statements more line by line detail and then the management discussion on analysis was prepared by the uh City legal compliance there's about seven different areas of testing that we have to do to comply with State Statute uh we did not note any issues with any of our testing noted uh there's conflict of interest collateral public funds public indebtness tips miscellaneous claims and dispersements uh any bids so um as we go through here again if there's any questions about anything I saying please feel free to stop me um as we go through and then the the letter that I handed not there is just uh two finding that are in the financial same that we've had the past the limited Personnel uh SE able to segregate accounting duties and then the financial statement preparation uh we prepare the financial statement for you and related to that General letter also there is some use of some estimates such as that pension liability depreciation uh we didn't have any disagreements with management uh related to that and then I will just point out the city did receive over 750,00 ,000 in federal Awards with the loan so there will be a single audit uh that is due to uh the federal clearing house uh by 9:30 uh we so we'll get that additional uh audit uh taken care of by then as well on slide three then we look at the different fund types so the general fund is the main operations of the city there's two special Revenue funds there's five Debt Service funds and two Capal project funds and then the Enterprise funds there's two the water utility and then we did start with two in 20 23 but there was no revenues just kind of some startup expenditures in the sewer at that slide for is the brief overview of the general fund operations the green is going to be the revenues the gold is going to or the orange is going to be the expenditures the blue as any transfers in or out and then the change in fund balance in the yellow for the last uh four years the city has had positive operations in the general fund um in the current year in 2023 our revenues in the green are up about 145,000 to a million 360,000 expenditures were also up about 220,000 to milliion 240,000 there's a $100,000 transfer into the CIP 425 fund as according to the budget and then uh ended the year with positive operations in the general fund of about 16,000 pretty much briak even in the general fund with that slide six then we get into your general tax levy so we did see an increase in your general tax levy the levy was a m75 ,000 collections a mil 78,000 um collections were up about 160,000 from the prior year general tax levy represents about 11% uh but when you exclude the 7.8 million of grants that were received for the weight water treatment facility equals about 56% of the governmental revenues that are coming in so governmental revenues is going to be anything coming in other than your water utility rates um so that 56% was the same as it was in 2022 so pretty cons assistent uh where your fundings are coming in from government operations another funding source for the cities is local government Aid on slide seven so I received about 84,000 down about 7,000 from the prior year uh that's about 4% when you exclude it um so in 2024 though it's going up to 143,000 so you will give you about 60,000 more in LGA um with a slight decrease in 201 slide eight just illustrates those two charts that I talked about the property taxes in the blue local government Aid in mgreen the Gap was much closer back in 2019 than it was in 2023 is everything is costing more prices are increasing uh so we've had to increase the levy to keep up with increasing costs um and then uh the local government Aid has remain relatively flat not kicking in anymore for those expenditures slide 10 then we start getting into your expenditures so this would be General government expenditures this is the mayor and C for finance Administration elections Professional Services and Economic Development total expenditures just under 460,000 up about 100,000 from the enre year most of the increase was related to professional fees and then um also spent about 87,000 of the arpa funds that fell into the governmental fund so the general fund operations was not really up that much it was really up about 12,000 if you take out that 87 that was spent on sign sound the media and some drainage that was all just fell in the general government category where thees did fall into Public Safety expenditures on slide 11 then spent a total of about 305,000 in the current year up about 21,000 from the prior year this is police protection fire protection Building Inspections planning zoning First Responders and emergency Operation Center uh so up mostly due to salaries and some engineering fees uh the fire our First Responders was up about 177,000 with additional supplies and training Planning and Zoning was down about 37,000 and then fire was up about 38,000 with uh repair and maintenance uh some gra doors and some electric work and then some turn off gear that was purchased in the public works then so this is the highways uh streets Highway streets roads snow removal Water and Sewer improvements and general maintenance so the top category there we break out the water um super improvements there uh so spent a little over just under 12, 700,000 in the current year down Bel 11 million as that project uh was mostly completed in 2022 and went into 2023 and a little bit more into 2024 uh the blue on the bottom is going to be the actual operating expenditures for the streets and highways up about 67,000 mostly due to repair and maintenance the person Brothers about 56,000 of that was the SE C and Recreation um Community Center Parks and Recreations and Gold Rush uh total expend is about 155,000 total down about 9,000 from the prior year operating in the blue um up slightly but pretty consistent operating expenditures the last three years from culture and recreation fund slide 14 then just looks at the different breakdowns there you can see in the current year uh the gold color the general government uh was the highest just with spending those arpa funds and that's just a classification of where those expenses are being uh made uh followed by the public works and then public safy slide 16 then we look at your general fund uh general fund fund balance so one metric that is used if you take your total expenditures which are in the green and divided by your unassigned fund balance which is in the orange color to get uh um how much of your percentage of your reserves are on hand so you're at about 94% so kind of right where you've been the last five years they're kind of right in the middle and've been down to 86 up to 115 so 94 is kind of right in the middle where you are uh so still in a healthy position there your actual unassigned fund balance changed about $1,000 so not much change in your actual general fund balance uh just that percentage decreased with uh those additional expenditures which I did mentioned 87 or 9 87,000 of those arpa funds that are not reoccurring expenditures going through there water andare Improvement fund balance on slide 17's at a deficit of about 695,000 that's just due to the time when those draws are requested just the time way to do that Capital Improvement fund balance on slide 18 so looks at the 425 fund uh total fund balance $844,000 total expenditures in the fund was about 129,000 so this does include the $100,000 transfer coming in from the general fund into the CIP fund uh there's a trailer purchase the 250 fire skid and a more coming out of the capital Improv fund balance so Capital Improvement fund balance did have a slight decrease but pretty much consistent the last three years on those fund Balan slide 19 then is the other two special Revenue funds that are there the gold brush fund which not much activi is going through there more community events kind of flowing through there at this point but the fund technically still named The Gold Rush fund and then the Tiff one one-1 about 28,000 in fund balance Debt Service fund um there's five general obligation bonds that are outstanding the 2020 or the 2013 a paid off in 2029 B 162,000 the 2017 a got 32,000 paid off in 2025 uh the last three there are all bonds that are related to the ongoing project that draws are made of about a little over 5.3 million um in debt in the current year to fund that project and then uh water funds has additional PFA loan of 2009 outstanding with about 400,000 that's paid off in 2020 slide 24 then gets us into the water fund utility operations so the green is going to be the revenues uh the orange on the right of that is going to be your expenses operating expenses depreciation and on top of expenses we separate out depreciation just because it's really not a non-cash or it's a non-cash item and then the any net loss on on the right there so did operate at a net loss of about 93,000 um but if you look your revenues were up about 32,000 the current year 15% bringing in about 251,000 your operating expenditures were about 206,000 U so you are positive before um depreciation is totaled in there um so a net loss of that 93,000 so if we look on slide 25 then the green is going to be your cash balance the blue is any debt outstanding cash balance was about 100,000 down about 23,000 from the rior year and then advances from other funds uh went down about 23,000 so they're paying back that 10 years about 23,000 per year that advance from the general fund and the water SE Improvement fund um so without that payback of that loan of the 23,000 the water funds just pretty much break even on the cash uh but since they had to pay that back we did see a little decrease in our cash position in the water util the last slide there just the general fund summary there so the general fund resulted in a surplus of about 177,000 that was added to your general fund balance of a, 332,000 unassigned reserves equal a, 168,000 or 94% of the general fund expenditures the water and sewer Improvement fund has a deficit fund balance of about 695,000 as that as a timing un those draws come in from the PFA Capital Improvement fund has a balance of $844,000 for future improvements all debt payments are timely and then the Water Utility Fund rates uh should continue to be evaluated to build reserves for future needs and just a reminder we'll complete that single audit that is due to the federal clearance house on 9:30 or September 30th and then we did submit uh the state reporting form and the financial to the state on August 15th which was extended due date uh that we provided um any questions on anything I went through I went through a lot of numbers pretty quickly there any questions like clarify or general questions so one question on page 25 the um that spend decreasing but that's G that's up here y substantially with our water and sewer yeah so once that project's completed We'll add a sewer fund and the SE debt and we'll transfer all that right now we're keeping track of it in those Debt Service funds and the capital project funds upon completion we'll move it all over to the Sewer so the SE will take on the debt they'll take on the assets and depreciate it um so once that project reached its completion it'll get filled in there so this blue here is the 2009 PFA loan that's paid off in any other comments for Andrew very good Andrew thank you very much next year should be exciting see Sergeant Ren is here there's a report in your packet status report anybody have any questions for or do you have anything to add to your report evening Sergeant Ren um I don't have anything of note to report um pretty much for the month of July um a majority of our calls for service came from traffic stops and community service so um when the VAC complaints we receive is speeding through town not stopping at stop sign so majority of our work up here during our time is spent traffic enforcement you know doing that stuff on Minnesota Avenue Lake Shady stop signs around town um so it looks like there was 18 traffic stops I don't know how many were issued citations versus just education you uh change in the speed limit had some effects so we usually give some grace period for people to you know start to slow down and realize hey it's only 30 through here instead of 40 or whatever the case might be um another big um aspect of this was community service so that can be anything from stopping out here talking with City staff about issues going on around the city or complaints um going through the parks making sure there's not people in the Parks after hours um setting up camps and stuff of that nature um but other than that there was nothing of real note nothing that affected the whole Community was all individual residents types calls and stuff like that so in general everything's been going pretty well here as far as I've heard so you guys have any comments questions concerns I think too with our change on our speed limits on Minnesota Avenue good to just kind of monitor that as well see how well they're comping yeah it's been pretty good I've been up here we're on days so I've been up here every day that we've worked and it's been pretty good um the speed limit sign flashing is a good reminder for people if we're not up here too um so it's been pretty well received it seems like from the community I mean we get a couple here and there that still go through there pretty quickly but by and large it's been pretty good so thank you public perks there mon there's nothing in that packet right nothing for at all okay Water and [Music] Sewer we have a recommended approval of change order number three with hist exting Trucking for 136 that's 138,000 659 26 Cents I think it's 138 8 3286 oh I'm sorry I read the yeah 138 832 86 I make a motion we approve change order number three with this Excavating and trucking for 13883 286 inste 136 is 138 what 832 86 second okay right discussion uh water and sewer reviewed it in quite a lot of detail and uh so it's the water and sewers recommendation to the committee to the recommend approval of the change [Music] order is encompassing a lot of different areas and um see by the number pages but s please recommend your approv attorney comments or anything like that ask of most of those are changes on the motors right for the three phase uh item a is the two Water Services Under Fifth Street uh that we directional drill uh through Rock Item B is the lift station uh for the three-phase the vfd variable frequency drives for the uh lift station to go to three-phase Power at Lift Station 1 a item C is uh a $2,153 increase in the private utility allowance that essentially uh we paid people's service and uh the gas company to extend uh electric and gas to the um lift stations item D um is for Riverbend Estates uh we kind of talked about that tonight of course and item e is for uh the construction of Street repairs um including binus mat uh some binus patching and overlay uh of three streets Second Street Southwest second third uh Second Street Southeast from six Street Southeast to about 100 ft 150 ft south of Timberline on Third Street Southwest uh west of Minnesota Avenue and then on Second Avenue Southwest uh south of Third Street Southwest so on those three Street segments uh they got be pretty beat up in construction and um we've negotiated a process where there's 133 patches that would occur on those streets um and we would fill the patches in with 2 and A2 Ines of new binus and then we would overlay the entire payment with a new 1 and A2 inch W course and so we negotiated this with the contractor the contractor would be doing all of the uh removals uh the saw cutting and the preparation of for those patches at no cost to the city um and then matthy s and gravel and the contractor Fitzgerald would be placing um the patches and the W course at the 2021 bid unit prices um so in total the total cost is about 48,3 $45 plus a 10% markup for Fitzgerald um but we get uh streets that are going to look and perform much better and extend their life much longer and so we went through this process we negotiated with the contractor we got it approved by the health department and by the mpca and so we're able to fund this through our loan um on page three you can see the loan split from the bottom of page three of the drinking water the water fund would pay about 45,000 the sewer fund would pay about 90 almost 94,000 I'm sorry that's the total change order the the the cost for the street repairs get split 5050 between the sewer and water I was kind of referencing for the total project or the total change of but uh I was excited to have both the health department and the mpca approve this and allow us to finance it over the 20 and 30y year terms of the loan and we essentially get a newly Surface Street out of it um they took a beating uh the contractor came around and they're willing to kind of Step Up and do their share recognizing they bore some responsibility here too but the streets were far from New when we initiated the project and some of the Pavements are frankly pretty thin and that probably contributed to the deterioration of them with the construction traffic over them so um that's what's kind of being proposed I had a question for you in terms of streets I I know on first Street they had to tear up a a big section you know just shy at the bottom First Street in Northwest yeah on the west side yeah yeah they had to tear out a big section it's it's quite a bit lower do you know is that going to be a part of this or is that coming a the contractor the contractor does pay for those types of they had to dig it up because there was an issue with the force M leaking okay and so they dug it up and they they repaired it uh the work course will go that on that probably this week maybe even tomorrow uh if you notice by the way they're Paving and uh by the way they want to start the removals on this tomorrow if you prove it tonight for those streets they will be done well they they might be done by Saturday after gold r we didn't delay everything because of Gold Rush a couple weeks not we the we asked the contractor graciously did that other questions I should also mention that there is a reason you know that change order in your packet had a $36,000 total and this one has a $38,000 total uh that $2,000 increase uh was uh for the the Riverbend lift station upgrade um within the change order we had previously included an allowance an estimate of what the cost would be from the electrical contractor because they were slow to send it back to us well they got it back to us and it was uh $173 higher than the allowance amount in total and so I updated the numbers so that we don't have to have an allowance anymore it's just their number any other comments questions see none all those in favor of the motion signify by saying iOS approve update on the t w house for the treatment plant and the project overall project is September 13th and 10 and P and I and Joe will be putting together our invite list and preparation what we want to present and share so WSB project update Senor packet there's a action item with S stand consulting services in conjunction with WSB requests the approval of additional funds to provide technical review comment coordination and project management on an hour basis plus reimb reimbursable expenses in accordance with stantex Master service agreement the city of Orono stantex labor and expenses for the work is estimated to be within the range of 4,500 to 6,500 for their appr proposal with that I make a motion we approve additional funds up to $6,500 for stantex technical reviewed comment coordination and project management with WSB for updating City Zoning ordinances a second a second just for discussion so help me understand so right now this has not gone to Planning and Zoning first okay and this has got to go to Planning and Zoning first before it comes to City so this has got to be put back on on the planning and Zing for next month another has been done with Bing and Zoning the first time we saw this is what came in the back so have you had any discussions about any of these items so I'm going to put that would recomend put that off till next month put off till next month so that we have a chance to go through Planning and Zoning first follow the proper procedures so help me understand and so we have WSB writing it and we're having santech review what they put together I believe WSB reached out to us asking for their permission to help ask they got to come to plan WB was asking for stex yeah but they have to come to the Planning and Zoning first for us because we did the RFP Lori called me actually and asked if I would be willing to um review and provide comment on certain segments of the zoning code relating to uh the flood plane ordinance and the um Shoreland ordinance and specifically the subdivision ordinance um obviously we deal with that and they're pretty detailed and um having some knowledge of what we've done in the past and having an understanding of how our utility code set up and how we things helped so she asked me and I put the proposal together as Jason asked so no I did I think the proper procedure with this is to go through Planning and Zoning first okay and then from there to come to the council to do that so I agree is that something going the schedule the pro well I think it will you know she was asking she's trying to move things along quickly and but you know doesn't matter to me still a December completion correct um I don't have the date on it where just we did the the public input on that and it worked out really good for Gold Rush and also for National Night Out uh Gold Rush of course just finished last week and so they're working on putting that information together off of that our next staring committee meeting is September 30th but we'll be able to work on this and go through it but I would like to go through Planning and Zoning since they are the ones that are in charge of that and then from there back to council again it's a proper way to do it remember talking about it's called a yearlong project you didn't start till like March it's started in January that's for sure but anyway yeah no I think this has got to go back through Planning and Zoning uh so who's going to go back to Lori then and say that uh well I've already had a conversation with Kathy is the chair of planning buing and Kathy is working on that just want to make sure that she's good I withdraw my motion and U I make a motion to table this to the [Music] September 16th 17th 17th for pnz to review it on September the 12th here a second I are we going to be able to get it from pnz to City Council in five days well I I think that we've got to bring it through pnz I understand there may not be enough time depending on what all the changes are I think make that determination then we Haven seen it have a special meeting I guess too that's important enough to keep the project on schedule it's still moving all right all in favor signify by saying I next item is the resolution 20 202 24-30 this is declaring a hazardous building and ordering removal of hazardous conditions of rising raising hazardous building let's go ahead and make a motion we can have some discussion about this make a motion to accept res position 202 24-30 declaring a hazardous building and ordering removal of hazardous conditions and buildings I'll have those homeowners applied for a permit for this understand on their own yes got submitted this week you have a time when that's going to be back [Music] or so there's a lot of information in the resolution if you have had a chance to read it um page two 10 pages but it has all the background and CMS photographs letters written August 13th to Mary Das Smith regarding what she needs to do all dependent on this resolution um they were here this earlier this evening um both Steve her friend and Mary Nash Smith were here and Mike and I talked briefly with them I thought they were going to come to the meeting but they um decided not to stay so what we we talked about and what we discussed in the meeting of this resolution and is that they this has been going on for some time and but I do sense a sense of sincerity in doing this they in the process of getting a a contractor agreement and U we that's something they will bring to us if we were to extend this to the September 17th meeting that they will and it's also tied with another September date to that we've been talking about September dat for this isue uh the demolition the contractor being started well so yeah I mean I we talked to I mean they seem sincere but everybody seems sincere and I flat out told this guy right to his face you know until your feet are directly in the coals you're not going to do anything it's not because he's a dishonest person it's not because he's a bad person it's just that's how Americans are we're not responsible as a group we're just not responsible and we don't like doing things we like telling lies and doing bad stuff and that's just who we are so until we put their feet right in the fire right in the fire they won't do it so that's my view of it but the flip side of that is I think it's expensive so you have to understand for us to do this to our benefit that they do this they did seem sincere but I've been tricked before I mean a lot of people seem sincere and they're just not sincere not honest so so I guess you can do what you want um it's up to you I told them it's not up to me it's up to them so options I think you could adopt this resolution today but tell me not to move forward with it in hopes that they actually do something um which I I agree they are sincere he really didn't seem like they had the the same contractor he said that had done the original work that same guy was going to do the demolition so that's I think he's going to do that and it's way to our benefit that they do that because otherwise you're going to have to spend thousands of dollars I mean that's going to come out of the city budget to just to get to the court order and then once you get the court order then you're going to spend I don't even know how much a lot to tear that down and fix it so it's to our benefit cheapest for the city best for the city if they do it I just I'm not 100% sure they're going to do it the last time they did the abolition how long did fake for them to do that well that's that's what I told him he already backtracked in the same conversation with you know we were talking about it he's like well if we give you till next month he's like oh maybe you know and if we can't get that contractor maybe we'll get a different contractor no no no no no no that's not how contractors work and you're already backing out of it and and you see what I'm saying he got it I got through to him I think I got through he did and I we talked about coming back in he's got 30 days to bring a contract sign contract with a contractor and with [Music] a a completion date all in the contract yeah and if he does that if he brings like a reputable contractor a real company that says they have a a date they're going to do it they pulled the permit they've got a contract that proves financing that they've paid that they've paid or put a down payment or something something and it's to your benefit that they do that I just right I'm not warrant if you give them 30 days give them 30 days fine I'm not warranting that it's gonna work I mean I give it and can we be may be better than 5050 I get 7030 I think he'll have a contract may not be done or started and what I told the guys I honestly don't think they're being deliberately um obstructionist I think what they're doing they're just this woman was suffering from what I would consider anxiety like crippling anxiety and I just don't think it's not that they don't want to help it's not that they don't want to do it it's just that they just don't have the she's a harder the wherewithal and the follow through some some people just don't have the wherewithal I think this guy is serious I he's GNA try but just don't don't blame me if we come back in 30 days and nothing's done and I I give it well let me ask can we be in contact with the contractors that has you know so if we have a contract they prove contract and that it's paid right could it be a situation where we're in contract contct with the contractor if they back out cont us know this woman was shaking she had to leave she had she couldn't do it but I was hoping that guy would come so you could ask him that directly and he didn't Steve come he was here he's a nice gentleman I he's a nice gentleman I talked him for a while he he means well I just don't I don't know if he can fall through at this point I think it's an overwhelming thing you know it definitely is so but they want to fall through want to do and they do understand it's in their best interest too I mean you know everybody it's in everybody's best interest I think they do also I I really do think they understand that it's dangerous that the property is dangerous I think they they're not disputing that issue um ear leing so I guess if it were me again don't blame me it doesn't go well but I would just reschedule this to September and see if they do something did you want to go ahead and go through this on the motion and and and have that done so we at least have that taken care of so to adopt this and then you could just you don't even need to make a motion you could just separately tell me not to file it with the court until but we can go ahead and go through okay I I make a motion to adopt this to have this cleaned up so I'll say yeah well I made the motion SEC we've got that have M follows in five days afterwards yeah well he'll be back here next month so we'll know exactly what's going on next I'm not going to track this though I I'll just wait we'll know Jason will have to contact this guy I mean I I'm still a little bit mythed that they made us get a search warrant would let us search the property after they got a building permit and we had a right under the building code to go in the property they refused to let us Center so I'm still a little bit but I'm trying to look past that looking past that so but yeah I think that's reasonable adopted tonight get that part done and then communicate with them you know they've got to communicate that has been the other issue since since left they just haven't been you know we haven't been their phones are disconnected we just can't we're willing to work with they frustrating you okay so we any other comments so you're making a motion to adopt resolution 2024 motion Jim second so this is with you need Boll call don't we yeah I'm just trying if we want to put any more wording here about the September back in you can just direct me I'm just not I'm just GNA tell you I'm not filing I'm not gonna do anything just gonna wait till September to do something but we're ready to go so we'll be ready to go if they don't then we can take The Voice vote yeah the all counc Richard hi counc pH Phillips hi counc pend hi mayor ior hi that's approved that's just is that just to see if they have a contract so so if you votee today to adopt this resolution you are making a declaration that this property is hazardous that's what you're that's what the resolution says you're you're making that decision that this is a hazardous building under Minnesota law then separately you're just kind of directing me not to file the court yet and give them a month and see what happens so the decision tonight won't be undone then this is a hazardous building right I think it's pretty obvious I don't think it takes any building official to look at those photos know that okay uh fire department we have a um motion to resignation of Mike card second he get 20 years in or the deal he got 20 years as the fire department was just busy is Kan you want to address that one he was he got busy didn't he but so how many years he re or is he just uh he's got seven or eight something like oh but he's just busy doing other things and [Music] maining I'll second it yeah I made the motion on Jim Rich second so uh any other comments saying none all those in favor s saying I same sign responders in your packet Economic Development there's some updates the one thing we're looking at is a starting a conduct a community identity and branding process Rebecca has talked to a a Cracker Jack is the name of the company that we hopefully we will have something at our Tuesday night Eda meeting with a quote and bring that back to here more about that later what we do have is a request to approve a letter of support which is in your packet this is uh support letter to the Smith southern Minnesota inititive Foundation to go with the application for a small town Grant that was written by Rebecca Charles a motion we approve the support letter with the southern Minnesota initia foundation for the small town Grant and this is in regards to the funding for the community identity and branding and the letter itself is just we've got a a deadline to get the letter done by August 26 I think it is so she still needs to do everything that she needs to do to submit it as well but this is a a letter of support from the council is why it's on the agenda here so yeah I don't know if we want to make U go to the Cracker Jack right away but put the letter to get out and see what we can get I think that that makes sense you know I'm just you I've got my comments on branding but wait till next month and see what what comes back up for that have a second herb did no second already did yeah did you no herb yeah this is we'll hear more about it at the Ed meeting come back to September 17 no more comments all in favor sign saying I I I no just for the letter is that a no y I just said for the letter correct it's just for the letter okay parks and trails we'll put together a proposal that go with some on vacation so I went to the meeting with Brett M grael associate engineer partner with Joe so shared this information with a FEMA representative uh you can see it's pretty explanitory if you had a chance to look at it the different areas there's eight different areas and um about two days before two or three days before the August 2nd deadline I realize or come to realize that we hadn't submitted our submission for either State Assistance or fem assistance and so we K Joe and I met briefly and we looked at the Damage Done To The River areas four five and six and um what we heard in the couple days before was that we only applied we had enough within the county Old State County to get State assistance which means that the city had to P 75% and no State assistance was 75% and the cities was 25% fund everything that's because we didn't meet the threshold for fima for R state county so then we the three of us met and we reviewed the Damage Done To The River from the floods the end of June 21st 26th and we put together Joe put together an estimate of those damages and that was $140,000 compared in addition to all the River Park oral Park Alice Park and Garden Park damage so that $140,000 that was that we sent in to um the county on Friday August 2nd allowed us and had to be presented August 4th to the state and that allowed us to get FEMA money for the county so we've went to a FEMA meeting last week and that's under discussion right now with the FEMA if they're going to accept area four five and six and so it's still but there's several other steps that need to go before it's finalized it goes to the state and so ultimately sometime in the near future nothing moves very rapidly with the FEMA and the the government but hopefully we'll still get FEMA money and uh there's a process we've had FEMA funds back in 20 19 and it's a long process there's a lot of paperwork a lot of documentation so we did have some good documentation as well except for ging Park so that's kind of an update on that and we're just got to wait and see what comes back so we didn't have we didn't have documentation on Garden Park you said we didn't have documentation on Garden Park yeah they asked for photo and this is with the some down trees and garden park I yeah there was a bunch of Garden Park there's if you look back in your package eight looking at that $6,500 for [Music] that so the river damage is pry substantial those three areas and I don't think we can really count on rebuilding it to the original but the idea is to stop the erosion es couple other documentation Jason had some information too so next item is uh City administrator report of course Jason's not with us tonight so um invting a chance to talk to him today but I think we talk to Kane and Renee regarding that so um so the items that are on the agenda is to approve the purchase of new software financial and personal management including the following general ledger accounts payable cash reing accounts receivable Utility Billing payroll and time sheets also included in the new software will be updated online bill paying and payment processing which I think is a plus data conversion and database set up and implementation training the purchase of this new software will take part over multiple years of 2024 to 2026 is outlined in the proposal and competion I thought we were getting new software last year this was in the budget for last year year for this year is this is this the same program that Sunny was working on yeah it just never we did demos and never really chose one yet um and then she was gone so then I put it on hold till we got the new administrator in here in hopes that maybe he had used one prior or she had used one prior and he haden't so we went back um you can see in the comparison it's what we have now currently and then the top two that were our choices from the last time we did demos with Jon this time so he got to see what they were like um and in working and training seeing what we have compared to what I was going for he was just very impressed with the bsna programming it's very customizable we can do lots of different setups the main thing that I was really pushing for was a customer portal so you as a resident you don't get your water bill you can go on and you can look and you can pay right now our payments come in through a third party and I've got to take those and then convert it in or put it into our system this will do it automatically you're just paying right into the system it puts it on and it's pretty much shows up right away so it's just a lot faster less time consuming because you're not going from you know taking these payments putting it here and putting it there a lot of it will be done automatically that's for those who do it online correct yes you'll still have the option to pay by check or whatever but if you do pay online you'll be able to do it right through their portal I'm just I'm kind of looking and comparing the two going back and forth and I was looking also at training that there was that was involved with it some of them are online the other ones are pretty costly for them to come out and do the training um and the one that you guys like if you look at the total it's $78,500 is 17,901 so there's a big big difference in cost um I have you know personally have a hard time going with the $78,000 off of that if we can get by with the 17 to do it if all you're getting is a portol that there is and the other one with the 17 has online training so whoever else would come in as temps would ever be able to train online and the other one doesn't have it they have to come out and train to do it that way they do both and I think the initial training was because I mean I looked at what that cost is that they had for coming out and it was it's substantial you know before we continue the discussion I would like to make a motion do we get into the right sequence here motion and second discussion is that we approve the purchase of BSA na software package at the proposed price according to the payment schedule in The Proposal so with that is there a second second discuss thank you Jim okay so you're saying Jim no I was just saying if you look at what that cost was coming in for them to come out and train and and everything I mean it it was and I'm just trying to find the exact amount that there was with that 60,000 difference yeah um I'm just looking for just to come out and training part of it as I looked and went through everything that way uh yeah the tribal expenses that there are $ 17,350 for just the travel expenses to get it which is the same as what the other program costs total well I there's no doubt that we that Jason spent a lot of time looking at this and Renee and I think that's we know what we have is something that Tyler Tech can ever do for us and um I think that's worthy of noting that I think that tell is it's over look on page whatever it is Page four payment schedule there is 26,000 this year second payment is in 2025 11,000 for balance 20 41,000 so it's a combination of 52 so me you told that up at $78,000 78575 it's over 5,000 in 2025 that's yeah I mean we got other things going on we don't know what what's going to be [Music] happening that's that's just my comment I'm not against I'm definitely not against software that's going going to take some work away but 60,000 over over the other one one 17 and the other is 78 I think I think we have to we have to take a smaller bite at this and give it a try you know right give it a try because nothing is telling us on the other one that okay we're only out $177,000 if we try it for a few years and it doesn't work um and maybe work that goes into convert months and months and months so do it this time one please one at time no over talking please so I understand the training involved totally understand that you know some of the things that that one has versus the other you know I I question if it's worth that that extra $60,000 or 61 almost yeah and training right now I don't I didn't see it in the record you know what what training has been done so I I I would be for the $177,000 one so when I looked at the spreadsheet over Rene did you have comments first I just want to make sure everybody knows like you do this training you do this converting it takes months it's almost a year from start to finish to get us all up and running to only use it for a couple years and have to go back through it again if it's not what we like there a lot of work and a lot of time so that's you know it may you guys may think well it's just switching software but it really isn't they're taking all of I mean we'll we're going to be spending months getting them reports so that they can get in all of our back history in and everything else so just think about that when you're looking at this it's not just a Quick Fix do you guys think that it's that much better for that much more money I do um we get a lot of phone calls I misplaced my water bill I can't find it I didn't get it in the mail with that and they're like don't you have something online I can look it up a lot of people are asking for us to have something online if you look at the spreadsheet the thing that cuts in my eye that bsna has that Bion doesn't have it's got General and it's not that much money either that bsna can offer the the general ledger module accounts payable cash receipt accounts receivable and that's all part those are those are everyday key things it doesn't look like that's much money but I think the training that use those modules would be really beneficial the city staff but AR the way I read it is the the middle the lower priced one has that the X mean it has it means it has it correct yeah but there's no cost that's the way means it does have it I don't think they gave us a breakdown of what each thank you I misunderstood with the expert so that's why I'm saying looking at that those are the things that Tyler Tech doesn't have the dashes I guess right okay so I mean it it has the Lion Share and and I get the whole idea with the the online portal I guess I would question is the other company is that on their road mapap because most companies will tell you if it's part of their their future road map you know is is online portal part of their road mapap because if it is I mean they check just about every box here and you can you explain the payment starts 2026 halfway through with bsna is that the is that the time the total payment because you're getting public this is what Rene is talking about the public record search online bill pay which every place every there isn't there's going to be very few companies that don't have online p and I think that's something our residents would like it's it's definitely a a big leap forward from where we're at with titer Tech but if we're going to do once do it the right way and it's spread out over a couple years of payments and it's City growth of residents coming online I think in the future this is something that is really would be beneficial to City staff both current city staff and new city staff as I'm I'm reading this help me understand this Renee what's what's the name of the middle one Tyler is the one we've got right Bion so the the things under under payment starts 2025 I'm reading it that these things are already included here correct I think I didn't sorry I didn't do this Jason did but I think what he did was he broke down kind of the pricing here and this is the overall and then I think he tried to go into what it would be so payment schedule wise with the yearly amount so like right now we're just paying the yearly amount in that I have no idea what we paid for a Tyler Tech when we first got it it was 2009 right so I have no idea what our original pay payment was for them and and I I agree you know we I agreed to move that we need to move past Tyler Tech we need we need the online um anything here I I see anything here is is making your job and everybody else in City Hall's job easier right but I as I read this I I took this as these things below were included so that would be the online pay the FAS support payroll support us and direct payment um is that us or UB um time card support so I mean to me that looks pretty robust for $660,000 Less okay toilet paper the the paper to dispenser okay so toilet paper dispens that that's why I say because the only thing that I've seen that it doesn't have that the other one does is public record search online bill pay but this one says online pay support but actually now that I look at it they're not lined up so it you know they both have online you're right Payment Processing I I would honestly I would be in favor of the what is it banet B banon Bion dat you know because it it to me it looks robust there's just a few things that it doesn't have that the other one does what is public what would we use that for I mean I see on the bsna software 1 the bottom here I wonder is that property public records like property and tax I think they did have something about you could search up on address and it would bring up different I know company has that I mean the things I see in in in the Bion I mean they they have a lot of what the come is well I would make a motion yes well we got a motion ready you the other one so it's interesting if you go back to the PowerPoint now this is Thea's proposal you go back to their power so they list their a closer look this is what the page looks like back as listen the cities that they replaced if you will so there's several that they've replaced B with their bsna Victoria Alexandria Dayton deleno even ones that had Tyler braer Wyoming Byron had banion at one time until 2020 to switched to bsna Northfield Ed Tyler 2022 St Francis and Tyler celsia another one Dakota County Hastings I should say Lake View so there's there's a lot of companies that have switched from banion or from tier to bsna that's what B bsna is saying so I think that's it's big decision and it's unfortunate that Jason's not here um and I would prefer that we just table this until Jason could be here and share with his background and training or not no background the background of talking to to bsna and and going into more detail because that's obvious that he recognizes that the cost difference between the two so I think there's work if that's agreeable with the council I I would propose we do that or just I can withdraw my motion take till September because I do think it's an important piece of something we should take lightly but make sure we understand exactly what we're getting and get more detail about the training unless you can you know more about he was working on I know he had asked for a breakdown but I didn't know it was in there or not don't remember what was in the packet but all I know is when we compared the two bsna BW everybody out of the water just how easy it was to function the functions that it had the customizing things we can each set it up for what we want to come up we open it what we need and we can give you guys access so you can go in and look at reports like there's just so many different options that we can do we can get certain access to the auditor so they can go in and grab what they need without having to wait on us C be agreeable to that wait till next month wait till next month wait till next month yeah we be agreeable on that I would like to also have some more detail from Bandon other than this because if we got all the other details that there are for the other one we didn't get much for vanion okay and I'm sure they've got more information than what's given to us here and for us to look at ask for some more information absolutely I I'd like the idea of the you know the spreadsheet got the column so we can at least look at it yeah and and to what you're saying Renee I think that's important as a factor so you know one has it the other doesn't you know to really understand this thing because something like that would make your job easier but I don't yes so I uh I'll withdraw my motion and make a motion that we table this discussion to the September meeting but for background information second next item going to say all in favor oh I'm sorry all in favor second say I item is acceptance of a three years no removal standing byman Excavating a prevention crisis list in the proposed bid contract I make a motion to accept the op Excavating threee proposal second second group and I've got some discussion on this I have to laugh they put down $ you know for ex rates of $4 per gallon I don't think we've been a $4 a gallon on diesel for ever you know to turn around and then turn around there's a sear charge and instantly start so our sear charge on top of the fuel is going to be basically 99.5% over4 pry like come on guys turn out it should be you but no it was just a comment that I said okay so this is for the the annual contract correct for three years their three-year contract and we asked him about that in the previous meetings I think we com back and said prefer a three month a threee versus a two-e just kind to help him plan more accordingly and that's how we went out with the bid but in spite of that he was the only one that responded so oh I guess we have to have a second we did okay good so my question is does this have to go up for bids it already has no so this no this is no no it's a Services contract that's not a class of contract but I thought you already sent it out didn't you we asked for quotes or whatever okay you do so they said it's standing bid I don't think they mean bid I think they mean proposal right okay you don't need to bid this and it's not over the dollar threshold either I'm sure it's not over $175,000 right annual Bill want to make sure something's not going to come back on at our budget that was 30 to $40,000 a year on the back I make a motion to accept it we have a sorry yeah there is a motion discussion no other comments all in favor approv Street Road there's a letter from Cedar Woodlands 2 HOA for your reference through question wasn't that what they read tonight they read that tonight okay next item is action item is to go into a close session the council will meet with legal council to discuss pending threatened litigation related to Cedar second homeor Association I'll make a motion we close meeting pursuant to Minnesota statute 13 d05 subdivision 3B as permitted by the attorney client privilege there a second at this time I would request um get to Pi a vote no let's vote on our motion sorry all in favor of the motion signify by saying I I oppos now we can go into close session so we ask that the public leave and uh two one question you have all the information you need for us see will because like Brian has copies of the stuff do you need anything must discuss the ho land or anything and then two how how are you going communicate OB well when we come out of the meeting we could make a summary of our statement or typically that's what we've done depends what happens so I think we have go close s if nothing comes out if there's no com so but as far as is the the documentation you're saying so um for instance the various agreements I I'm sure Mike I think you've got these but various agreements comparing Cedar Woodland's one to all those got just ask that's a good question right thanks thank you and then we'll call you back in when so let you know if you're still here to come back in okay thank you discussion about City contract I guess he we'll go back into Open Session and uh with that I would make a motion that we table in discussions to the September meeting and we would advise that if there's any other Communications on this issue um that those will be handled through attorneys both for Cedar W to and for the City attorney is there a second second any other comments seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I iOS approved so discussion of City contract com contract that came around came back to me some people over at Cesar Woodlands get it bring it over there and uh my concern was is the uh mayor the uh the new acquired City administrator signed a contract with uh adg how without city council appr and I'd like to know where they thought they got the approval to do that just say have a difficult time with signing contracts and you don't have city council authority to do that real it's apparent it's apparently a contract there was never any and this is all part of our um the background of cost cost of reimbursement security agreement and this is something we we had with every developer that we we cover the cost of inuring services planning services and they put a check together or donated they sent a check in we just use that balance to pay off and after the development agreement is f that we and we had no development agreement before this took place we had this that's right because we want to cover the expenses of our city and engineer and planning services to develop the plan finding agree or development agreement it was still done without city council approval well you're right in principle but at the same time it's a process that we have in place that's been used for many years not so certain this is the first only thing I'm looking at I'm looking at the date on this one and that's dated April 8th okay um I know that this was in the packet on the fourth group of stuff that there was that we got from Hamilton buried in the middle of that stuff and you know if we had this how come it wasn't brought to council you know in the next meeting that that that's what was done which we had no idea that that had even taken place yeah I mean I understand what you're saying but at the same time it's just all part of our permit process if you will our what process permit process far this is this has nothing to do withs this is agreement help paying the city so they don't get stuck with planing and City and Services I understand that but developer going to cover going to cover all them expenses until anyway for most of that stuff there's no no reason for us to be signing agreements making promises that nobody knows about you're making you're making promises that city council hasn't agreed to that's not right all I can say this is what's been in place for many years we together and remember when we started doing these Jo it's been he goes back to Fitz sh and probably last to go back to Jack but uh or I'd say for the last 10 years we've been executing and the city's been executing these agreements with developers as a precursor to um you know execution of development agreements just to ensure that um cities reimburse for cost that it expends um to facilitate and review developers bills so I'm not again it's I we're not questioning that what it is we're questioning the process of what went through and you know if something wasn't right 10 years ago do we say Okay 11 years we continue doing it that way you know so this should have been for Council before discuss this to well how many people have discussed this issue before this Council me I have no idea what it it is actually I've never heard this this was in the planning and Zing packet I don't know where else is see yeah it's in this is part of the packet that I did that I did have access to somebody brought it to me but uh what you're saying is process should be updated or whatever we should have known about this before it happened that's my point so I mean I we had a similar issue come up recently so is it a matter of knowing about it or is it knowing it's a matter of knowing it knowing about it beforehand this shouldn't this should be happening before before before we know here's here's my view of it kind of stuff happens all the time in small cities and it it like so we had a issue recently where a city clerk just signed something that she wasn't supposed to sign and sent it to a company it was a contract where the company didn't didn't put in the contract what they had proposed like a bid what they had bid the prices were different and she didn't know it'll read it and so she signed it and sent it off so that kind of stuff it's just I would consider that a mistake not like a that's a that's a clear well no I think that's a procedural defect just like what you're saying it's like she shouldn't be doing that without somebody else reading it and just like these contracts probably should go in the consent agenda of the packet to just be approved that's that's the preferred way to do this um but mistakes in Contracting like this I mean I don't think it's that big a deal I mean happens all the time and so I researched that and basically the clerk and mayor have to both sign in order to make the contract valid the mayor and clerk both have to sign it there's a statute and there's case law a federal case actually in the E Circ that statute and so I don't I think it is I'm telling you that I think it is even if the council didn't approve it if that's where you're going with this is is this even a valid contract if the council didn't approve it it it probably is because the mayor and clerk both signed it pursuant to the statute for 12201 um you know yeah I mean you're going to want to put contracts simple contracts that are what I would consider perfunctory like you know like Joe said we've done this for every single agreement like we don't have to in detail discuss every contract and every issue it should just go in the consent agenda approved but so that's my take on it and that and you know when this clerk called me and said that this is what she had just kind like you have done that how could you have done that like what but then I you know put it in this the context of small town government I kind of you know whatever you just move on I guess so that's what we did and and that company is not honoring their quote unfortunately so two things so Ryland why did you turn and ask me if if I discussed it are you assuming that I discussed this with somebody well I heard G talking about was in pz pack was okay that we originally got this but it was supposed to be in the package no it was never in anything we and it was just it just was thrown in and like you know if we didn't go through that last fourth packet that was in there that 300 pages that we had to read that that you know pnz meeting we wouldn't you know I mean that's where I had seen it before no we didn't discuss it because it was in the packet website for public record I can access this right now yeah you you want to be aing contracts right and that's that was my other point that I wanted to make is you know this was put in place we didn't know this was really put in place transparency wise yeah we would this be nice to know would it be nice to know that this was in place before we had that I at letter of intent yeah Jason had only been working for what two weeks at this time I mean he didn't even know what what he was getting involved with on that's when he signed it you know so did you just tell the signment is that what it was I don't know and Mike are we assuming by doing this are we assuming something because there was there was no approval well that's what for the development is this an assumption that they come after us presumption Dev is happen I mean so that's where I thought Paul was going with that so that's why I pulled up my demand letter on the other issue so my view of it is I mean technically with the statutes technically what the statute says is every contract convenience license or other written instrument shall be executed on behalf of the city by the mayor and clerk then it says with the corporate seal affixed and then it say so this is not doesn't have a Corp seal affixed although I'll say most of my city smaller cities I don't think they have a corporate seal that I know of so that's this is probably like aundy old statute but I my view of it is based on that you know just the performance of the parties here I think this is an enforceable contract and exactly and do I think it's gonna matter no I don't think it matters at all I mean it's a I've read this this is like the same template they always stantic use for forever I think right I didn't produce it the City attorney produced it we just replicate it but yeah a template that's template yeah so this is this the template that we use I don't think it what what do what do you think is negative outside the names the dollar figure yeah what do you think it would be negative you know have you read through it I mean this wasn't on the agenda so I assume you haven't read through it but have you guys read through it is there something in here that you're worried about well just the fact that it gets signed without us knowing about it and and it's it's dated April 8th and we're now looking at what on the 20th of August okay I mean that's not right that's it shouldn't be done that way and we should have been aware of it yeah that's that's that's no doubt about that but but you you were asking other questions like could they come after us and I'm asking you do you have any I don't think so I don't but I you know because you had mentioned you you had mentioned in the last council meeting uh when we we talk talked about not you know approving the development and and it could cause litigation is this something that could be a this is unreel an assumption that's unrelated that that had to do with making sure that was two Council meetings ago and that was about making appropriate factual findings which you absolutely need to do but that's a totally different that's a l that's a development issue that's totally this is just a contract issue you know it's just a contract issue I guess I mean I don't you did I assume I assume you took their $7,500 what it says is that you need to reimburse them if you don't spend it I'm assuming we did that but that's an accounting issue so unless you breed a term of this agreement I assume they spent a lot more than $7,500 you know I gotta think so I don't think there's any money to return to them um in some cases we will ask for an extension we've done that with yeah security agreements too I guess what I'm saying is no I don't think there's any I mean might have I was given zero notice of this I'd have to read through this to figure yeah that's the other thing I just but I don't I wouldn't worry about it I I would I Jim's Point's well noted well taken like you know the administrators got to make sure that all the contracts that are going to be signed are in the packet and approved and they can guess I'm making a plug for the consent agenda it's only 9 o' we did pretty good tonight but you know something like this just really doesn't take I mean it's perfunctory it's just you do 10 of them a year I just think you can put that but yes the council absolutely needs to I mean you can't the mayor and clerk shouldn't be signing contracts without prior approval of the councel yeah that's the main thing that's the main but I but I guess the the legal issue now is would that invalidate this and I would say know it would because the mayor and clerk signed it a court would uphold this this against the city and number two it probably almost certainly doesn't matter because it's a cost security agreement which means you know yeah what what's what's the damages here there are no damages so I don't think good point of order and I just like this other city that I had to give them a little TI tisk you know you got to make sure the right people are signing things and that you're reading what you're signing before you sign it um you know you gotta you know you got to get things in the packet and get them approved and are you sure this wasn't approved in the packet I mean it seems to me like we usually approve them by no no like I said there was no intent to bypass the council is just the process that's been in place for many years of secured agreements they come in with a proposal make sure we cover our cost because in the past we haven't done a very good job of that well you could do you could do a standing order where you give the mayor the authority to do that and not bring them to council every time you could do that but I think then you would have to like you know authorize the mayor to have that Authority and that that standing Authority in some sort of way I have no objective for putting this into the contract or consent agenda or agenda item too this just something we thought our normal process and rightfully we can change the process going forward so I have no problem with that I mean it probably makes a lot of sense to give the mayor standing authority to sign it because otherwise you only have one council meeting a month that you got to wait every you know you know you either have to have a special meeting for each individual thing you got to wait three weeks or two weeks to have something that's like I say kind of perect yeah you gota well the these don't happen every day either on this night you know that okay you know so those situations that there are that are involved with you're doing this with the developments you know there was the other contract that got signed too with Waste Management that we had asked to be held off at that at the same time going on that's my issue is with Waste Management City that's really funny so the other issue I guess that is important I guess is I would say that the amount so I mean I think because the amount is going to change right this was $7,500 so that's the one thing that's gonna in the name of the I mean the name of the developer I don't think the council really needs to it's the name of the developer but I think the amount I mean there could be issue there with if you're charging enough or too much or whatever and Joe gives that number to R because every project different depending on the level of drawings how intent it is that the bottom line is if you don't bottom line rule is if you don't have a standing allowance for the mayor to sign something then it's got to go to council to be signed and there's probably in most cities I I mean I don't this I'm not a clerk or anything but I assume there's a list of things that the mayor is just authorized to do and I bet a lot of cities just sign things that way but I don't know contracts should definitely go to the council though you know for sure because you don't want litigation the other way where the opposite is true that you want the contract enforced and then the other party comes back and says well yeah the mayor and clerk signed it but wait a minute the council number approved it so you can't hold that contract against us because the council number approved it there's a procedural defect so that's the real way it's the opposite of what happened here you wanna you don't want that I mean that you should be approving them you know you need to prove that you know you know in some instances you have to do it by resolution by Statute you know real estate closings you're going to sell a piece of property it's got to be done by resolution i' I've seen closings get held up because the title company won't close until they get the council resolution and the council calls me and says well it's in the minutes well not good enough that it's in the minutes statute says got to be a resolution so yeah you want to be doing things the right way yeah don't do that don't sign anything the council didn't approve and um yeah and Jason's got Jason wasn't here I guess but he's got to put stuff in the packet you know it's got to be in the packet so I think he so you know we'll um that's the council's wish have them included agenda whatever I think we should know about it before you sign it you know that's that's it I mean the consent agenda is after the fact you know i' like to know about this before well no the the consent agenda like tonight there's a consent agenda you could put that in there to be signed to just be approved that way we don't have to go through every last thing get signed after the consent that's really after it's appr that's really what Jason's supposed to determine go in the consent agenda and what should not but absolutely contracts unless there's some standing authority to sign simple contracts or permitting like your building official for example you got to put it in the he's got you gota have Council approve it the only request I would have and Paul you've done this several times already is that these are gotcha questions if you were this is so much as I got you can I finish no so I'm going to keep on talking then you can talk over me I don't care but the point is these are gotcha questions I mean they're very legitimate questions it could have been very well put in the packet and we could have been better prepared to respond to your question but when these gacha questions happen it just it makes for um very inefficient use of our time where we spent 25 minutes talking about something that we could have had some background and be prepared to prepare our response versus doing this so I would appreciate all of us if you have something put it in the agenda share it with Renee get it in the packet and eliminate the gotcha questions I think that's a fair request what would that mean for everything because there there are a lot of things Ryland that end up on the table or the meetings they're already put in here so we try and eliminate those as much as possible and we should still continue do that but I think would be very good use of our time and um thanks Mike yeah I'm just packing up I'll stay few minutes here uh with that we have our consent agenda I make a motion we approve the consent agenda no I got some stuff I want to take a look at in that yeah that's the other thing you can always pull it off the consent agenda if you want to pull it off just I agenda was being made yeah but yeah I mean you should but I think you can make a motion now to or you can just dis the other way to do it is just discuss it when the agenda was called you don't have to pull them out for separate approvals if you just want to discuss it if you want something not approved but everything else approved then you got to pull it off so it just depends on what you're doing or intending to do I guess I'm looking at what there was for the Eva minutes that were in there um um but with with that on the Eda on on page three and it was in walk on items that there were and um this goes back to Rebecca and the comments that she was making in minute deals and it says that she confirm that she was doing this upon request but she would be more cautious about doing so in if I was wondering who requested that so which this is on page three of the minut other minutes for the Eda oh okay Walkin items I was just wondering who requested her to do that I'm sorry I was looking for the page your original question my original question it in on here okay that she was being questioned uh about Rebecca was on making the comments that she made about the Hamilton Group and back door backyards and everything else and on that she said she confirmed that she was doing this upon request but she would be more cautious about doing so in the future I was wondering who requested her to go do and make those comments yeah my question is with that you bring that isn't she an employee she is we don't allow employees to speak at public forum that's true we've had council members talk to public hearing too so I agree we need to watch We're Council I was just wondering who requested her to do that she said somebody requested her to do that so I'm just asking who I will I'm just asking who I will say it was brought up in our I believe it was our last Eda meeting that uh that Public Public Notices by Eda members be a process for that to be all the members that are on there to be improved how you're speaking on TS and then I had some questions too on some of the checks and going through to yeah I want to talk about that a little bit more being that it was brought up um I I believe it was offensive to our residents that were here there a comment that that Rebecca made and and this is why I question whether it was right to have an employee speak at public form because I don't think we've ever done that CU that's public firm that's not employee form um but the comment that she made um that and and I'm not saying it verbatim but it was basically that we shouldn't listen to the public that they don't make the decisions that the council does and it goes back to what I said at that meeting too we we are not not a a u communist governing body we're here because of the public and and for that statement to be made I actually took offense to that statement and and honestly I would like to know who asked her to get up and say what she did because even the tone I think was offensive it was it was very negative it was it was to me I don't know about anyone else but it was offensive to me that was worful it was loud it was very pointed and she's an employee at the end of the day she's a paid employee and to sit up here and scold the council and the public I think that was totally uncalled for so I'm glad you brought this up because I actually wanted to put that as an agenda item what was it um I missed it there what was it related to the Hamilton the public hearing for the Hamilton so if okay so was it the public forum or the public hearing okay so the public hearing like there's statutorily required public hearings right absolutely staff present evidence hearing they like your building official during the Nash one would get up and say I inspected the pro you know give testimony and you need them to do that to build the record up in case they appeal it so that that because if they don't do that then that's not in record and so that's the type of issue where usually that would all happen at the I mean this was weird that Hamilton think was weird in my view because a lot of the talk happened at public forums and not public hearings and like that you know all of those comments that were at the public forum really should have been during the public hearing portion of that so that they could be considered as evidence and I think a lot of what ended up happening was people were talking outside of the public hearing but at the public forum after the closure of the evidence being received and I just kind of was the train was off the rails at that point so I just kind of Let It Go but there's issues there maybe her tone I don't take any comment on that I don't but yeah um but yeah certainly you would want although I would also say she's an Eda person I don't know what that has to do with the development project so that's the other thing like typically it's it's about like zoning subdivision at land said not I suppose she was saying she was in favor of it to promote jobs or something no was a lot of other stuff you can if you online to find out I'm I just want sure you understood that during the public hearing on a on an application or like if you're gonna expel somebody from the public pool you don't have a public pool if you're going to expel somebody from the public library whatever you have because of bad behavior you're G to have a public hearing and absolutely you would want the pool director the library director to come in I mean you almost can't do it if they don't do that you have to have them come in and give testimony so just so we're clear on that does everybody understand the difference yeah okay you get some other comments on um yeah I did I was kind of looking I mean I'm looking through these and and actually I think we're we're running pretty good on the budget I mean there's there's some items that leave it off but I think all in all we're we're we're pretty deep decent um the thing that that I was kind of questioning was was part of the the check and the Tiff which is for CH Robinson for the $147,000 um how much is left on on that tip that we're going to be paying for the to Robinson what is well assuming was two years of payments there's been probably about seven years so far that we have and Renee and I have been looking through that I mean how many more years are we going to be pay CU that's $147,000 and a lot of the city people aren't even aware of that we're doing that it's either seven years or we reached the $750,000 threshold what we paid them back now I think that's what it is we got to look at the documents but I'm going for memory years or dollars one of those two we be paying them back for what are we paying them back for a tiff tax increment financing right that's what was agreed to with Council back when they came to the C back came to the city so you guys mind if I head out mind if I out open my MTH minut and then so that was the one question I had on it I see some other stuff with the rest of it kind of makes sense but I was just looking at the rest of our expenditures and and I think we're pretty much in line yeah what's going on so I mean watching everything else we're pretty decent oh there was one thing came up is like we don't have U uh and Street lighting we didn't put a budget item down that way for electricity and that was $9,000 year to date and we don't have nothing that was budgeted for that and that's on page five Parks Parks has electricity Recreation is shop has electricity it's all kind of broken out fire department yeah it's a 4282 Street lighting department 3002 we spent $9,000 yeah there there's no budget item for that which I thought was was kind of interesting off of that you said what line number 4282 um that's 4282 it's $222,000 no no no no no right here this one page five yeah I'm on page five got do the smaller one here that's it says right here Department 43002 Street lighting go to that not at the right Department no show well am I'm in the right departments right here no you're looking at electricity okay I'm looking at what there is for the street lighting there's no budget and we've got $9,100 two lines is what we got so there's another 42 802 down here another 42 802 in here training we're a little bit over with on First Responders but we get that reimbursed don't we yes we don't get First Responders okay so that's the one yeah we're over by 2000 on that Fire Department fire depart but I think all in all with that we're still think pretty decent decent yeah all right that was just kind of questioning that General equipment that there is for fire department we're at the max at 4500 and we're over on that one oh the other one was legal fees if you go to page three okay that's Department 41600 Legal Services the legal fees we budget 27,500 and right now we're at 45921 what line item uh that's uh 42305 I would think a good chunk of that'll be coming back to the city was associated with the Hamilton agreement or the Hamilton reviews and you should get reimbursed for Mike's time through that cost security agreement but if you're looking at 7500 wasn't enough off of that because look at all the drawings that you did off of that so there isn't going to be enough to cover that well the cost security agreement can you know the the $7500 is just the initial payment it's not out not to exceed number so you should be or the city should be continually sending invoices oh voices more for that one Renee to be able to I haven't lately no I have to go back through and redo all of them I mean that's that's that's pretty healthy you know 27 for the whole year and we're at 45 already same same with the engineering cost on that project signicant but I'm saying that's you I don't want the city to be eaten that stuff let go engineering part of it too okay anything else cont this more detail you could stop talk to Renee tooe our contracts off too for contract labor but okay so we have a motion um do we have a second on the consent agenda I made a motion but I think got a second had a lot of discussion I think we I think we had a second on the but anyway if not put me down for a second I make a motion toour vote on the motion for approve the consent agenda first all in favor say I oppos same sign approve now your motion where you guys go Jason needs some dates for Budget meetings so please get a hold of him or if you have anything you agree on now I can bring it back yeah okay because we had four we had maybe two by this time last year three by this time he got a lot of it done ahead of time though so well it doesn't involve us okay we don't know so we want to be involved with the budgeting process like just he hasn't had even a year here to know what's going on with the city I'll take anyone to got there I'm open to whatever he's got sooner the better because we might have to have more we sent email uh no it was actually here in in his was in there but I think he did send out an email too asking for dates he just wants to make sure we get him going so soon the better you can getes request coun requested coun respond back individually either decide tonight or respond back to his email whenever everybody's available but let's do it quick because if we have to have multiple meetings we're need to have that before end of September I hope that it's uh I know it has to be something MO second Jim I second all favor say I thank you toop look at your yeah