##VIDEO ID:WUpLaW7ipfE## know last time we had this issue actually recorded it but we just don't see it may share is that M yes I wasna get figure okay all right course here councel pigr here councelor Phillips here councel Richards here councelor spring here city engineer Joe City attorney representative David ass who should be online as well so all right so um first item is to approve our agenda so any have any amendments or yeah I do I have one amendment that there is um and it would be under new business under J and I'm going to have a quum discussion it's a new item yeah nothing in the packet about quum so we'll add for discussion uh I would like to move new business um up to um I think it's ahead of item seven petitions requests and Communications what new business had unfinish business you're saying no new business um if you um I was saying new business above petitions requesting communication not sure if the r numerals are off here but it would be eight new business above petitions requests communication and we're moving act to where ahead of petitions requests Communications right after the ordinance D all the new business in that place yeah other changes or amendments all those in favor of the agenda as with the Amendments of adding item a to new business and new new business up to before petitions requests and Communications which is right after all of the ordinances and public hearings on page two all in favor sign saying I I'd like to see do business stay where it was that's where our packets are name comments I'm just thinking that that that's going to take quite a bit of discussion and it would be nice to have it up front before we get into some of the these other things um we don't have any information on the vast majority of these items and so I feel like discussions are going to be lengthy I prefer to talk about those earlier than later any other comments none all those in favor of the amended agenda sign apply by saying I no no let's leave it I I I'm oppos leave it for let's leave it no we're not approving the amended agenda no we're going to move leave the new business where it was originally right going to leave the new business that was supposed to be moved up back to where it was originally so three of us said no to to that part of it okay to leave it where it is so then will um item G being added was not approved then either no j j should be approved that was not part of what the motion was yeah it was part it was part amending the agenda so that is not but it would still stay in there as J we still got approved we still got approved the agenda so you can add it back in okay you still got you still got to approve the agenda you're gonna make another Mo I'm GNA make a motion to approve the agenda with j j for the quum where it is rest where is one second any other comments none all those in favor sign by saying iose all right um first as a Citizens outstanding citizens Year award for 2024 and uh bo or multiv Sky come to the podium please good morning evening good evening thanks to everybody who's here this is not always the most fun but this is probably one of the most fun parts of the Year greetings or noo city council my name is Bo hanburger my name is Skyler brightenstein it says it right there right along with mayor ior we've formerly served on city council for many years and with your continued permission we continue to serve on the outstanding citizen committee many years ago when we were on city council oroko tragically lost longtime businessman Gordy kavo when this award was dreamed of to honor Gordy with help from his nephew Mack and the support of his wife Avan we saw a need to recognize so many who give back to oroo our Hidden Gem of a community in southeast East Minnesota without these types of volunteers the city wouldn't survive let alone Thrive the award hangs just to the right as you enter into the oroo community center current and past residents can be nominated annually as long as when they volunteered they resided within the city of ORNL the next nomination will be early fall 2025 the awarde for 2024 began volunteering in oronoko many years ago helping on Gold Rush weekends volunteering with the or loal VFW auxiliary eventually serving on city council as mayor for 2 years more recently this person has volunteered with the oroko History Center AG friendly oronoko committee and has volunteered at the oroko candidates forum for multiple elections this person is as humble and as service oriented as so many awardees over the years in fact I know this person would say that they're not deserving of this award however we strongly beg to differ in fact we almost didn't have the award yet tonight's meeting due to other volunteering commitments after numerous candidates were anonymously considered with the vote and support of the oroa city council at the November 2024 meeting we'd like to congratulate Joy ber singer on being orocal outstanding citizen for 2024 a 20 minute speech they would love we get a picture with the mayor sure well thank you I not expected it's uh it's an honor it's something that many amazing people that I've met throughout the years should join me on this honor because without them uh without family support and support of the community this doesn't happen so thank you everyone congratul we'll do that we'll get a couple in the hall too you want one with all of you guys thank you what's that you want one with all of you guys we're good we're good she's the important one thank you for your time thank you and happy holiday thank you Merry Christmas all right yeah that's a always a great part of the City Council meetings throughout the year so thank you Joy all right next item is our public form and it's a three minute time limit per person city council welcomes and encourages participation from community members please keep in mind that your comments must be pertinent to City business and must adhere to data privacy rules and no employees names may be used please do not expect action from the council this evening regarding your concerns to address the city council during public form please step up to the podium state your name and address and fill out a form provided speakers will be recognized only once you will be timed again speaking when the green card is raised yellow card indicates you have 30 seconds left and red card indicates you have reached your three minute time limit I don't have the card so I'll just three minutes is up okay well we we'll make some indication the three minutes are over so okay so first item um Roger wellis you'd like to come to the podium thank you mayor and city council for the opportunity toh talk to you about this year's taxes um looks like kind of a repeat from last year looking over the um 21 taxing authorities that we get information and I see a couple of communities decreasing their taxes by a couple percent next year a few will be increasing the modest amount and some are most in the 5 to 9% area even our County will hold that 5.6% but here's zor noal like last year 36.5% you got the number one out of 21 taxing authorities the next one up is do Yoda they're only going to go up 189 so you're double what the next one in line is um last last year uh I sat here for a while while the council realized that uh there was still a lot of work to do on the budget and you had heard from the community citizens that they were kind of alarmed at the rate that was going to be imposed and so for the next hour and a half uh you went around the uh tables and asked everybody if they could possibly do with less money in 24 and I think you brought the budget down from 37% to um uh 23% as I recall something like that so I don't know if this is makeup for last year that you didn't get all you wanted or if there's um some new things are going to happen in 2025 that I'm not aware of uh I'm real curious about what I'm going to get for a 36% tax increase um you had talked about maybe hiring a city administrator I think that person might be on board now uh having been a professional administrator all my life I would tell you that one of the most if not most important thing in that person's job ought to be budget preparation and budget management uh it's not a difficult thing to do but it's a timely thing to do and it's a bit complex and it shouldn't fall upon the shoulders of everybody around this table to start from scratch so if you're not using your administrator for that purpose purp uh I would suggest you get to it bottom line is um I know you're not going to give me feedback but my question is what am I going to get for 30% height next year I do not have Municipal Water I do not have Municipal uh sewer uh my street is deteriorating uh I haven't seen a patrolman up on my street for about 15 years I do see him downtown and when I have the opportunity I stop by and thank them each time I see them for the time they they give our community uhit so thank you very much for thank you thank you Kevin or Kevin Cardel 635 Valley viw roads across the highway my question is the same thing that uh in the last four years looking at my increases in my taxes I understand property values go up that's not all your concern or your issue my property values have gone up actually this year now it's gone down a few thousand dollar which is kind of surprising but my taxes gone over $1,100 in one year I have the same question as this gentleman here what can I expect to see for that change I know that the water and sewer was put on and that was a year ago that that would have been so that that doesn't double every year so I don't know why my like a 33% increase in my taxes for oronoko just for oronoko city in in one year and again my question is what can I expect to get difference because again similarly where I live and you know that the roads are breaking up there hasn't been any work done on that there was supposed to be a paved trail down in the Ravine and where we are That was supposed to be done we were told two years ago it was to be last summer not the summer we just ended the one before we've gone through this summer and it's still and from what I hear that there's no plans to get that done I also have heard from City people that uh it if things are going to happen they're going to happen on the east side of the highway not on the west side so I'd like to know why is that uh being discussed and and why is that the case and I say that because there isn't things happening over on the west side of the highway say the park the sewer project I've also understood that as I'm paying for sewer system that was just to be connected tearing down the old one but I had heard that the uh one of the divisions over there was waved that they don't have to pay the sewer connection fee I'd like to know that why is that that some people were waved what it was understood by all of us that everybody would have to pay that connection fee yeah thank you thank you and Earth well I'd just like to thank you guys for everything that you've done I know that uh this is a difficult you know decision making and I guess the only thing you can really do is uh what the citizens want you to do and I I really appreciate uh your efforts so and it was uh quite an experience being on the council good or bad yeah no I I it takes a lot of experience to get good at what you're doing so I really appreciate what you're doing and thank you thanks sir anybody else would like to come forward for the public forum please come forward you out a name or slip please hello everybody my name is Jeff Barner b a r n r right around the corner my concern was about the taxes like everybody else um we moved here we're the newbies in area but we moved here seven years ago and we were paying 5100 in taxes property tax that's total assessment between the county and or noo now we're looking at in 2025 um in 2023 we paid 18851 to the city of Orono on a residential where own residential single family dwelling um by 2025 our assess value be 3,255 to the city of oroko so we're looking at a 75% tax increase in two years to the city of oronoko uh the county by contrast only went up 14% this past year um and or same year went up 35% I'm just saying we were actually seriously considering moving across the road and getting 20 more acres in a newer home for 2,000 Less in taxes because of what we're paying here is far out stripping what our income is our income has remained very modest over the last seven years but it keeps going it keeps jumping up $8 $900 a year uh who knows what's in store in five years I going to be paying 105,000 in taxes we we can't afford to keep going the way we're going is all I'm saying that's not and then no taxes are necessary and no no things need to be G you know need to be done but with the increments I was looking at since we were moving here the last two years I don't know if it's the water infrastructure or what um but we we're having adjust subdivision we don't have a sewer yet we have though I guess we're paying it just like everything else we don't send SK kids to school around here but we end up paying for it anyhow um that's my only thing is that we're actually literally looking to get forced into probably moving out because our taxes we can't every two years we can't look at a 75% tax increase to the city or no it's just out stripping our means it's not in our budget we're having a hard time just there foring groceries and stuff but when I look at my tax bill every here and I'm getting hit with another 8900 bucks a year from morono that hits home I mean one two $300 okay you figure there's increases but almost $1,000 a year to oroko I we just can't keep up this pace is what I'm saying it was okay until 2020 2022 2023 was okay but 2023 to 24 the last two years has just been skyrocketed off the map and I know other Counties have done it too but I'm just saying we probably end up having a move I don't want to do that because we're in the former mayor's house I love it up there but I just can't afford almost $1,000 increase every single year thank you you thank you third and final call for public hearing Joy Binger 6006 Street Southwest in Oronoco um I do want to thinkk specifically Jason for bringing down working towards getting the budget down lower um even after the council had gotten it down I know it's hard there are a lot of requests so I appreciate that I appreciate council's diligence and trying to bring it down as well um I just have a question about the Eda you've heard it before from me um after listening to the last 10 minutes of the December 5th budget meeting I had some concerns that the Eda may be cut totally I did reach out to Rebecca Charles who's on the Eda and asked her if the fire department can apply for Grants through their depart through the Eda and she said that yes they can and so I reached out to a fire department member who has over the last few years applied for Grants sorry I've been dealing with a cold for the last week and a half um and he said that they would welcome and actually love the support of the Eda so if the council can come to some agreement if nothing else to Le par down the hours if that's what you need to do I think it would be advant advantageous and important for our taxes to possible have a grant applications for the very early thank you so I just want to bring back to the top of everybody's attention what council and spring brought to our attention at the beginning when he asked to move agenda item that you can see on page five genda items seven and eight to the Forefront the three blocked that the three that block most things that get brought up block that again and I think this was very intentional so I just want to make sure to speak to this a little bit and I'm hoping that people will pay enough attention or have enough energy later tonight or tomorrow to go back and watch the video and see what happens in agenda items number seven and number eight they specifically don't want you to hear it so that's why they voted to not talk about it right up front so you're going to get tired you're going to listen to the tax stuff you're going to go home you're going to tune out and you're not going to pay attention to what happens in seven and 8 so please go back and watch that the abuses that our city administrator has taken from the group of three here is hard to watch but it's going to be UNF display again to me things like making him move his office from upstairs to downstairs you asked about City administrator and using our tax money well he is so abused in his position by the current council members he can't do his job they set him up for failure in every move they won't hire anybody they are so abusive to staff our staff quit he's on his own so when we talk about tax dollars and where it goes they won't fund a financial officer for the city but they want to fund a forensic audit of our finances I mean we don't have serious people here it makes me sad we make good questions about where our tax money is being spent you listen to them try to talk about a budget it's honestly it's embarrassing and it's sad your agenda items on here this we don't want this you got voted out you got voted down as mayor you almost got voted out by a writing collectively the citizens don't want your agenda they don't want your agenda okay so please you guys pay attention to what happens at the end of this meeting and you can see what we're really up against um I think we have one item or one person that would like to speak on the zoom don't know hand went down D yeah yeah I don't know can you hear me go ahead Dan okay um I don't use this uh very often anyway I just wanted to uh complain about the increase in the orocal property tax went up for me almost 29% and uh I'm confused uh why it would go up so high and then my uh property assessment is the same as last year here and uh that's about all I've got thank you thank you Dan thank that's nobody else okay anybody else here third and final call think none we'll close the public hearing at uh 7:02 great so first item is a public hearing regarding delinquent water bills and with that anybody would like to address the public hearing on delinquent water bills the people that are on the resolution 20 2447 should receive letters regarding their um tax payment going forward on this resolution that would be added to their taxes with the approval of the resolution so with that we open the public hearing at 7:03 if there's somebody that would like to speak to the delinquent water bills now would be the time to come forward second call for public hearing for delinquent water bills please step to the or on zoom and third and final call public hearing for delant water bills see none we close the public hearing at 7:05 704 well resolution 20 2447 um city of or nol has compiled a list of 10 properties that are delinquent on water payments the list of partial property is composed within the resolution so I make a motion to approve resolution 2024 47 second and I will add that in the resolution that you have before us there's a couple partiel IDs that need to have some uh IDs that were transposed we'll take care of that with a final resolution the addresses are okay the amounts are okay it's just an editorial change that we'll make sure it's corrected before we send the resolution into the county Ry I have a question we can do that uh let's see I second I made motion Jim philps second okay go ahead uh well the these couple of properties you know this this parcel number eight we're talking $2,600 for a water bill is that uh said something are we shutting the service off or they were is it a vacant home or what is it that nobody's paying the bill that's the they go on their it goes on their taxes I I understand that property I understand that but I don't want junkyard one that's y That's we got to stop that off off yeah well we got a couple of them that are over $1,000 doll and I just wondering are we do we keep we keep supplying water is it shut off or is it late fees they just continue to run and and nobody no it's uh you're right it's in the township and um history behind it not very many are aware of that but that uh they were hooked up and and so the township has agreed to collect those charges for us okay that's the Jason about the the junkyard ta Township being assessed taxes being assessed by the township to that property yeah that's pretty much it what she said now regarding turning the water off that can be another another discussion but right now we're just making sure that I guess I guess my my concern would be if they're not paying the bill why not shut it off and then it just not not be able to turn it back on till that bill is paid for whenever whenever whoever moves in there I think that's a good discussion and we can have that later on too and Paul with the the I think it's the salvage yard or whatever that one is in the township that one is shut off it's just fees that have continually build because they're not paying when it comes to Residential Properties um there's laws about shutting them off and just the M especially this time I understand the residentials but as far as I know the the one in the township there with that that specific property that one was shut off a while ago because we were dealing with that this summer trying to figure out everything that they were going through and where they're at and how they got hooked up and yeah but that one is just fees that are just constantly building coms the comments we'll all vote The Voice vote course hi councelor Phillips hi councelor pentag hi councelor Richards hi councelor spring I that's approved next item is our resolution for 202 24- 49 budget approving our final 2025 budget and tax levy so with that I'd like to make a motion to uh open it back up there's a couple items in there I'd like to look at for the public hearing we have a public hearing first sorry then we'll get to discussion so open the public hearing at 7:07 several people have spoken during the public forum really recognized if there's anybody else that would like to speak to the budget or to the final budget and tax levy let me just give you some background on what's being proposed um so since the preliminary figure was given in September 30th to the county that was the preliminary figure that was a 36.7% increase um and various people saw reflective in your in your proposal for 20205 so what we're proving tonight is a final budget tax levy and through workshops that we've had numerous workshops that we had before September 30th we also had a couple here in early December where we went through everything with a different departments and um accounts committees and everything we are coming in with a um a general tax levy of of it's It's 1,553 Excuse Me 1 milon 53178 of20 and what that is the summary it is a 18.3% increase the numbers here so when the preliminary tax I don't have the preliminary number that was the preliminary number R 51 the preliminary number for which line which line the preliminary number for the total Levy was 1 m768 306 with a raise in cost raise raise from the year before 472,000 978 increase had had a 36.5% levy increase the levy increase is is 18.3% is what we're proposing in this budget tonight so it's it's cut in half from what we had in end of September so that's what we've spent work on getting it to this point so there's anybody anybody else that like to speak to the proposed taxes please come to the podium or on Zoom already been here but 18% last year and 18% this year is 36% so it's better than 30% 36% one year I think you're hearing these people say they're against squeezed and 18 uh 18% a year can't be tolerated just wanted to verify there so what you're saying is our proposed taxes that we got is going to be cut our increase in about a half that should be depending if what's approved here tonight yes yeah so what you the city what you proposed back in September was a lot larger and now you're saying tonight that it's going to be about half of what the preliminary tax figure that we sent to the county in end of September between the end of September through now we could never go higher but we always have to bring it down and so that's what we did with our workshops everybody knows it is online under the on the city website under City Department's finance department all the the proposed budget for this is on there one with year to date actuals through December of City spending for this year for our different funds and the audit information so we've been working on trying to get more of that stuff online just takes time no other comments close the hearing at 70 or 71 okay so action now is to approve the resolution with what we're proposing I make a motion we approve resolution 20 24- 49 second second any comments regarding uh what we're proposing what we've talked about the last two workshops uh yeah I think there's a few things that are on there I think we need to take a look at um one of them is line 17 uh which is uh fire State aids for the fire department of 16,200 um that's an in andout um charge there is the the state gives us that money back to a retirement for the fire people so it comes in and instantly goes out it's showing as an expense item that there is on the fire department but I just wonder is an In-N-Out that shouldn't even show up so that's number 17 um number 19 um is maintenance agreements that there is with the township and um I look back at our budget that we had for 2024 was We were supposed to be receiving $41,500 from the township and then I go back to 2023 and the budget at that time for the township was $ 6,810 and we only received actual $1,322 for all of the First Responders that that went out so um I was wondering if there shouldn't be more money in the rear that should be duess uh from the township even going back to 23 into 24 and looking at the proposed budget for 25 we went from 41,500 down to 24,000 which is um again I was wondering if we can't get more money out of the township that there is to go along with that to help pay for the First Responders I believe in our workshops it was explained to us that uh the 41,000 was a figure from the previous City administrator and whatever discussions we're not sure but we just know that what Jason has done with the talking to the township I think there is agreement on the 24,000 well that's what we came up with with the fire is there in agreement yet with them but it's out there it's discussion going okay yeah but I'm looking at 2023 all we've got from the township is $1,322 you know and and if you look back you know we had budget at 6,800 but the prior years we were getting you know 8,000 and 9,000 all of a sudden in 23 we only got 1,322 there should be some money somewhere that's missing I guess in in the in the spreadsheets that we have we give different spreadsheets for each of our meetings and then the and then these spreadsheets the one that we used for the second half of our our budget our budget uh discussions we had a line for the 2024 budget we had a line for year to date we had unused we had 425 expenses we have another unused one and we're handed this the stuff today to look at this stuff the only line we have is a budget for 2024 we don't have the unused portion I'd like to know where that is well that don't help us decipher where we need to be it was removed it was removed from the spreadsheet wasn't removed I created a new spreadsheet for the other one ones you're looking at okay you were created other reg do changed the fact that we don't have enough information in front of us for the for the final propos we' actually used between between September and now 24,000 has been that's that's a confirmed that's a confirmed number that 24,000 but it hasn't been approved by the township no but I was just looking at the difference that we were missing from the 1322 from the 2023 number we were missing a lot of money that should have come in from the township for back at at that date didn't we have a conference for that back to everybody I'm sorry shouldn't we have a contract for that that we can refer back to I don't know if we've to look at what we got I've always just seen you know like you see the $8,000 figures in the past has been receipts the only thing is I don't know if that if one question is did we receive everything from 20123 or did we not we don't know right I'm not aware of a signed contract but that's I've never seen one but that's not say we don't have one I've never seen I'm just looking back there if we go to 2022 and 2120 go back all the way to 209 it was $8,000 that we actually got from them versus what came out of 2023 what are you proposing to do with it well I would just like to know if there's some money that we should be getting back from Township that would kind of help us you know offset of what there is and then for us again you know at that 24,000 I think we need to to get a contract with the township you know we're going to get that 24,000 because we budgeted 415 for this year and we haven't gotten anything from what is showing for what I've got on my my sheet that there was no incomes you go back to page 123 of 134 which is the expenditure Revenue expenditure report year to date Meg agreements 33632 year to date actual is $8,000 what what what what number is that age 123 of 134 it's in your Revenue expenditure report by 123 um I see The Bu calls is that we were talking about on that one for the $2,958 it's about a third of the way down on page what's your number 123 uh 33632 632 so that's what we've received towards the 415 so they've met their commic for all the years I don't have the 2023 of course so where's where's the $41,500 budget number come from is that something we put in there that grabb it out of thin there that we got the budget that much either they didn't agree to it that's what we like it's not a budget item it's a revenue item excuse me be clear that doesn't take care of the 2023 yeah I don't know what happened there we have to look at some of the expenditure rep Revenue expenditure reports see what actually happened for 2024 we got $8,000 like we have in four five last years so that 20 24,000 that's not a given number then if if there's that's what's being discussed if there's no agreement yet that's what I'm saying right right so is there there's got to be a contract recognize it you know does Township recognize that number well it's been shared with them I know the fire department's talked to them we have talked to them so I just want to make sure it's it's a shared number if it's not a shared number it shouldn't be even be on their sheet so or if it's not it's not agreed upon number it shouldn't be on here it's not actual money there should be a signed agreement it's the best right I agree with contract that's I understand that but that's yeah if it's not it's if it's not we don't have we don't have contract for it should that's that's money we have yet so right nor an agreement to get it you know it's really no different than the number from building permits you know we think we're going to get 40,000 but we really don't know it could be 60 it could be 30 that's always a guess yeah that's right it's always a guess so I think it's in the same ballpark is this ongoing discussions that we have with the township well leave it leave it alone there's nothing going to do with it that discussion takes place when for the township my understanding it's later in the year correct or of the year so it'll be next year next year I think you have a valid point to bring up money's Ed from the past at least to get to that 8,000 yeah absolutely I mean I don't know if that's relevant for well I right now and the other well we can continue on with with other from this point so but yeah I just it's something that that we should be aware of and and residents should be aware of too that you know we didn't get that money from the township and the amount of service that we did with with the First Responders is first class and and you we should get paid for that so I think it needs to be year marked I mean as we saw at the beginning of the meeting we go after our residents for billing with bills this is no different as far as I'm concerned this should be money coming in okay let's move on yeah then on uh line 51 we transfer in from other funds um that's coming in which is $150,000 of for payroll support just so that the residents know that that's coming in from other funds in the city what funds is that coming from that's coming from our general fund or the water sewer it's got water and sewer on that one for WS okay discuss 75 comes from water 75 comes from sewer to make that 150 and then uh I'm looking at uh going back down here elections we Zed out on that one looking at Department 41500 which is line 122 and I'm looking at the salaries for uh a person that was it looks like is up to be hired for a financial person under 123 124 125 126 and 127 uh didn't to those out but I want to put those on hold excuse me so what's your rationale for that said yeah I'm I'm trying to let him in talking to us this is kind of council chambers I don't think so okay I do it's a disruption that shouldn't happen go on what's the rationale for your comment about the finance uh because I don't want to put I don't want we don't need to have that person in there for this coming year I think that we can get by with that by having a new clerk uh that's got a little bit more of financial experience behind that and use that to replace our Deputy Clerk and that way we can save this money that there is off of of this position I think this has been budgeted for a year now going into two years and hasn't been filled I think that this position as we get later into our discussion about this forensic audit if we're going to be hamstringing the city's future um that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me uh to take that out when we can get clarity moving forward get things organized a little bit better that's what that position would before inventorying all of the assets that we have in the building I think there's a lot of value in keeping that position at least available for us to hire yeah it's it's going against a budget that's that's there um I mean if you're looking at anything you know possibly you know you could do it as I wouldn't even say a part-time you could maybe do it as as a special assignment or or bring somebody in but you know to have that in there I'm right now we have a full clerk the clerk can take care of those positions so we do the clerk and we do the administrator that gives us two plus you're going to have an assistant that's in there for administrative assistant so that puts that puts three in in the the the city which is fine okay uh we were were light on what was actually given to the administrative assistant to be able to do this year you know and that there was a lot of things that she could have picked up that she didn't do so that's where I think that this could be a cost savings for this year off of that uh we've gone through the sewer increase and got everything set up that there is in our system and we also turned around and bought a brand new computer program that there is on top of that which will take care of a lot of that part of it so we invested 60,000 in that program a computer program doesn't replace and I think think that it really goes without saying that to say that we if if we can hire these people into these positions it goes without saying that you're asking a lot of them because they're not here anymore right we don't have office staff anymore well we're we're going to be replacing it and that's going to be coming up for discussion what goes along with it and those will be replaced you know so well it should be relatively quick I think possibly for the administrative assistant and the rest of it they can move pretty quick I've got some quotes that there are for um services that they'll do to find the the I'm asking how long are we planning on keeping these people if we're not going to support them if we're just going to continue to ask them to do more and more and more when we should be splitting FTE amongst duties I think that we've had until this last year pretty good retention that there was behind it and we had Renee here for a number of years you know and and that was worked very well up to that point it's just over the last nine months that we've had three people that have resigned from the city which needs to be addressed as well which we're going to take a look at you know up in that point in time we had some good retention uh the other thing that there was with the administrative assistance that were here uh working with the person out committee and doing exit interviews you know we found some things that were pretty interesting for both of those when they left but um that would be a Personnel discussion you know and if you want to bring that up we can but you know I think it goes to to what was set out to be which was cross training that we were trying to do from the very beginning that that really didn't happen the way that it was intended to and I think that's really the biggest way we can support that we get the same number of bodies and we get people in here that have experience and cross training happens as it should we should have a team that can support one another and there should never be one person that knows everything I agree with that yeah but we didn't have a team that there was before the team didn't exist and that's where I'm saying we didn't get the cross training that we had been working on from the first Jason came in on trying to get that done okay and so it didn't happen you're right we need a team and the team as I see it too it includes a finance person well you seen the job description for a finance person if it's part of that's not Administrative Assistant that's all financing we're looking at a clerk which is financing at the red and Jason's also got the clerk financing so that would be two people that would be in financing should be able to handle that without a problem you know that's what I'm saying I think that we don't need to overload and put another person that's in there I think we need to turn around and get the right person for the clerk and have the clerk and have the administrator that's in there and have an administrative assistant that can also turn around and pick that stuff up and I think it's going to work fine for this year um I mean that's I mean we can put it up to a vote if you'd like on on what what the council agrees or or thinks about with that got a part-time administrative assistant and to find a part-time Administrative Assistant to do administrative plus financing stuff I just I think the quite grasp that the think the clerk would clerk would be doing the financing okay the administrative system can be doing the billing and collecting the billing and and doing that that goes along with it okay um I think our Poll for our heavy usage was this past year on putting in the sewer okay and getting the billing and all that stuff done and and we we made it through that so we've made it over the hump and and now we're on a steady climb that there is on what we're going to be doing so again I I don't think we need that extra person and and I think it's a place where we can save money for for the residents and bring this down a little bit and look at it on some of the other things that we really need to find out in the city you know on on some of these things and one of them is is and we got the price for the forensic audit to look where some of these other funds have disappeared to so and I think too if you look at job descriptions Clerk and administrator overlap quite a bit so I think what we hired the ad administrator for was to a lot of the finance because that that was the clerk a step up and that that was the rationale behind it so I like the idea of a full-blown clerk not a deputy clerk which would fill the shoes of Finance partner with City administrator who also has a big piece of Finance um and an administrative assistant that we hand Reigns to train them and allow them to get in there and grow and work themselves to a higher position and and do that so they want to stay so the budget doesn't reflect hiring a clerk as it's reflecting is a finance person and a part-time Administrative Assistant well You' you've got a deputy clerk which is in line 106 for $91,200 that wage or hopefully something B more than that needed I've been working with a company called ddna is another one besides scsc to do that I haven't done anything or signed anything I'm just looking as a Personnel committee what we have to do to replace things and so I'm looking in advance like Personnel should be on what needs to be done understand what is outter what people you know are there people in that in that looking for a position and there AR so can we put that up for a vote then call for a vote on that make a motion for a vote you're making a motion making a motion to vote to hold up on that first 123 24 25 26 and 27 now I got a total of $ 82,9 18 is what I added up off of that what lines are they uh 123 24 25 26 and 127 so State clearly what it is so you're saying hold off on these positions that one position that one position with these expenses right so there's five lines yes but we're still netting at the end of the day we would still have three people in city hall right we have it that's correct okay which we need right thank for I mean we need we need the skills and I think that's the rationale behind city clerk because if you think about it Sandy was here for how many years 12 or like that he's here quite a while I don't know we were quite a bit smaller but if I may make a friendly Amendment um that we take some of that and add it to the deputy clerk potential salary so if we're struggling hire a clerk for the wages that we've budgeted we at least have a buffer to get a true clerk in here I'll I'll take that yeah friendly amendment I think that's very good and I think that 10,000 so unfair to add to it and I was looking at the employee health benefits that's 1227 and I don't honestly know the difference in Pay between a deputy Clerk and clerk so I would um I think 10,000 or time you figure the benefits everything 10,000 salary it's another through 4,000 for benefits okay so you want to just take the 12,000 thing it is Deputy clerk already has benefits to it so you wouldn't need to add all of that to it you add but that would 15% or something would you recognize Jason yeah Jason so up here we got the salary spread so this full-time staff positions listed year this this that's where we're getting the 61,000 this is what our Deputy clerk was at this is the proposed off of that hourly rate and then you see over here you have the overtime so if you want to make an adjustment I will also say I've got to find it exactly again but I remember reading 2025 Minnesota law is talking about we have to when posting positions have a hiring range not an exact salary so we want to make sure we're understanding that too so this is just a rough ball part like you so if we so if we took so if we took 10,000 out the wages of the that other position and added added to this part of the budget I think the the if we add 10,000 to the wages then we have to potentially adjust the amount for overtime it'll adjust so would it be I'm just looking for a new hourly rate so just 10 10 adding 10,000 would that be 6200 that's 622 so $37 an hour I don't know if it's a live spreadsheet but yes it's a live spreadsheet I mean I don't know what our range we want to have a range right and even if it's a little bit High that's probably experience depending on experience and that's that's what the league of Minnesota cities does they'll give you a a range that's what we' i' like to error on the higher side of that range yeah people more experience and that's what we've been soed this be over time so the total so you'll see that the current rate 315 at 65,000 goes up at 76 well goes up that's about your 10,000 a little bit more than 10,000 in the salary so if we if we if we say 15 that'll give us a a range 15 15,000 15,000 on top of it which gives us yeah yeah okay so that would be you want to do the math but well we know 10,000 is about this yeah and that's fine this is this is the the one that adjusts all the time we can figure the hourly rate out a little bit later but yeah if you want to add we know 10,000 is about oh my gosh this is driving I'm say I'm saying you're looking at yeah down so go up to 98 make the adjustment on line 98 okay so that's let's just put in here we go what you put to get 86 that jumped it up to 15,000 that could be at the top of our range or I think it should be and it would also take care of whatever we need to do that's a 20,000 range but if we can get somebody in here that has substantial Financial benefit that 20,000 is not then yeah and so I was looking for somebody that already had that computer experience that there is for the new program that we're working on and so that's what I've been been looking at yeah Jason showed us this considerable number of cities that are already using that program so somewhere maybe we can Harvest some Harvest somebody from there again you got to realize this 86 this has the overtime hours included yeah so and I would hope hopefully we cut down on the overtime too it's just one things we're budged for because we're going to start paying it out each pay perod so instead of doing these LP some payments dur the right year because we've been paying at the end of the year right yeah this will help us keep better track of the hours what's the what's the lump sum payment you talking about Jason comp time St employees suppose that'd be better off if we pay that out quarterly pay it out with every paycheck so they and we're planning okay you get about 75 hours of overtime is what we're looking at this is the first year so we gota kind of see where we're at and what's going on state shove some other requirements us to yeah to with that range the council would would also have the ability because I know we talked about it with Kane's position is to flip it to salary and that would likely make it more enticing too and and and likely bring down all time as long as it gives us some flexibility on on experience well we were a little bit higher this year too because we ended up taking care of everything over 330 hours of PTO that was aced for a number of years at the first part of this year and we maxed it that that would be the start point at 330 hours so you know that was a hit that we took at the first part but we brought that big amount down so it wasn't quite that amount that we were paying you know for the people that were on for a long time because I know Kane had a lot of hours that were in there prior right how many hours did you have quite a few but that that was also the first part of this year that came off of this budget so the other other question I have on 142 motion okay tried the Motions on so have toot on the motion well I just want to so this is we're okay with this and under the deputy clerk we can rename this stuff later but under the deputy clerk we've got the new salary adjusted with the overtime of 86 and we put on here for the salary spread $40 an hour which is what I used in the equation for the other one which is this forget it right but this is the number we're looking at keeping here corre yeah okay um oh actually hold on this has got the increase of uh that's a new position yeah it's a new position so let's just go with that there's the I was like why are those numbers not matching okay I'm gonna take this off hard 8 83 832 there we go now our numbers match there we go 832 so this is not including the overtime of 45 so then we need to I'll get that in there this is going to be another $4,500 on top so you're looking at 877 is going to be the total I can get my mouse to move it's about $24,000 bottom line from 91,9 to 115 480 was a range in that I guess there we go yeah and when it comes to hiring we can look at the range and the salary and stuff this is uh are we done with that y and then I would like to go back go to the snower and IC oh sorry Paul not I just want to now we got to finish off the second half we got to do Z these out council is agreeing on or wanting we have a motion for this so maybe we should just vote on the vote on the motion do we have a motion to remove the uh proposed Finance salary and change the deputy clerk to a city clerk which changes the deputy clerk bottom line from 91,9 to 11 15,480 with that considers a range in there that's the general budget what we'll work with are we going to rename it a clerk we can do that at the time yeah we'll worry about that later do make a motion to do that you have a motion I got a motion on there right now any other comments saying none all those in favor signify by saying I I I oppose approv yeah there's a different um department number for clerk to I don't know we don't have it here but it we'll make those changes uh next one that I had was uh line 142 on technology expense at 42,000 uh I believe that we've already paid for the 2025 fees for the the bsna if I'm not mistaken against the CIP funds what are you on 142 so I I I think that that can be cut down to you know that was cut down from the 880,000 when bsna was under there sorry I didn't take the bsna off of there so that was already cut in half from this preliminary of 80 something thousand the 13,000 for the bsna for 2025 was already paid them right or 11,000 whatever that number is that was majority that came out for next year off that there was the initial payment and then we'll have another payment there's a there's a big one that was supposed to come out of the CIP but then the yearly costs I'd have to go back without getting proper notification of asking about this for and I don't have the breakdown in front of me exactly right but did we did we we already paid it for 2025 correct yes because that came out of CIP actually no we paid 2024 2025 will come in 2025 and that was voted to come out of CIP that was out of the CIP 2024 was out of CIP 2024 was I thought was C that was the big one yeah the big one is the second that so I'm just trying to figure what what else fits in there to the toal 42,000 that's you know I'm still I struggle with that number don't have that because if we were looking at 2023 actual was only $731 and it was $8,000 in 2022 and it was Zero from those going out later than that off of it so it's the 7,000 to 40 7318 to 40,000 was a huge jump from 3 to 24 I just we're trying to to to watch expenses and what there is here for the residents I'm just thinking that that's a place we could save some money you look at your expenditure reports the back of the packet page 125 to 134 let me go okay you can see that we spent 43,5 594 year to date on a $40,000 budget well yeah I mean there's a lot of things that we could have put in there that that I don't know if they needed to be you know again it's like do we just keep adding every year and make you know everything go up so what was the number what page were you on that one page5 of 134 4798 technology expenses year dates $ 43,5 n478 re budgeted 40,00 so we had computer and internet expenses is that what you're looking at off of that one on the 4279 yeah okay well we don't need to buy computers every year that there is that goes along so if we invested that in this past year then we should be fine for next year you know so for the next two yeah so when I know that that we turned around and I don't know how well U Public Works came out but they ended up getting what four computers Kane I got four computers that there were that were a part of that too that he's got going to be doing again for next year so that's where I'm just thinking that that that might be a little bit high that we might be able to save you know even if it goes down to 25 right you know I think that that gives you more than enough and that would give us another $155,000 in savings can I make a recommendations since you know with this there was the talk about the CIP just using this instead of the majority of this for this to cover that instead of using the CIP funds which was I was advis after the fact by our finance adviser that the CIP is supposed to be mainly reserved for the water sewer stuff and so instead of trying to dig more into that to pay he pay for the bsna stuff use these funds to cover that well the CIP is capital Improvement and I'm looking at what there is and the way the discussion went last time is the same thing as as a piece of equipment that needed to be done for the city and so I understand the water and sewer and we can get into to that part that there is behind it but I think that we're going to be fine and and we're putting in another $130,000 again this year back into the CIP which maybe we need to look at differently but um I think we're going to be fine with with the sewer so um I just think that that we should turn around and and keep that the way it was done the way it was already voted on and um turn around and cut this 42 down to may say 25,000 so we're covering all of our technology expenses in this line item with bcom onsite diligent Adobe there have to be some on-site activity with two two new employees coming on what are we talking 25,000 is a lot of money to be be able to put on there for Onsite that's that's a lot of money not saying you I'm saying there's a lot of there's a lot of aspects that go into technology and we don't want to cut that short either well no I I just think that we've over put more than what we should in there I'm just saying that I think we should have that let's see I'll go up I was going to say 20 I'll go up to to 25 why you bring this up in earlier workshops we did bring it up but the thing that there is there was a workshop and you couldn't do anything else for making any amendments that there were when it was a workshop lowered a lot of stuff this was originally yeah I'm just looking at some other stuff that we can do to lower some of this stuff to kind of help the residents here for what the expert is Workshop right and we didn't see what it did to bottom line in the workshop it wasn't it wasn't reactive we didn't see an 18% number the day we did the I appreciate Jason bringing so we could work with it tonight that's awesome really this is no different than what happened last year exactly same what's that I watched last year exactly the same but again with the workshop you can't make these changes well we did make these changes give make consensus we we can well we Dro this from 80,000 to 42 I'm I'm still saying I I'm looking at this and I think that we can can have some cost savings if there is on there and I think our residents would appreciate it yep you know I think it was suggested but it was over Road leave it at that suggested what it was suggested to go lower than that but it was over Road leave it alone now where do you want it what number we going you want to go to 25 what okay 142 there's got to be a motion I make a motion for line 142 to be 25,000 for technology expense second I'll second any other comments none all those in favor signify by saying I I I oppose all good uh I want to go to Lion 274 ice and snow removal like to cut the budget when it comes to that we have $ 52,2 left over from the 2024 budget we have about eight days left or so here or 15 days left of the month we don't think we're going to use that you might use part of it I'd like to so that's that that money is already in the checkbook so with our $75,600 budgeted amount for the 2025 snow removal budget I'd like to use this $52,800 we already have in the checkbook and just add the 23 whatever the actual number is this is this is Line This is I and no removal 274 through 280 are we moving that far quick I some other stuff I don't know if there's other stuff in the meantime yeah there is I think it's we have to come back I want to get back into the fire department so it's a $52,000 item that's going to really help change some of our numbers that's why I wanted to go there oh that again uh what was that 227 it was it was line 274 through 280 what are you proposing Paul I'm proposing to use the 5282 that's already in the Bank last year's leftovers the remainder that was in our preliminary budget papers that showed that number isn't that the money that was supposed to be allocated to buying a salt in truck no there're two different things that's another topic another topic this this is this is money that was budgeted last year for H and Stor removal it didn't get used for it so it should stay in the kitty for the h and Stor removed for next year and I just want to add the difference of what we what we what we already have versus what we budgeted we budgeted 75600 for it that's for the two items all together we used 5208 two so then I just want to add 23518 to the budget so these budgets you know every year um you try to pull money ahead into the next year so but every year these budgets are based on tax property money that we get for the year and how we use it I understand that we did not use it for snore removal it should still be in the bank and all I'm saying is we didn't use it for snow removal we should still have it in the bank still be in the checkbook the only we should have to do is add this other number to what we already have have tag for snoring SN to add whole $75,600 they can get by for 23 so all if I may I I talked with Mike bubani a little bit about this and I'm going to redo his explanation about some of these these what you're talking about basically um and he says one of the most heavily scrutinized funds by potential lenders is when the city is pursuing a financing lenders like to see ending balance of General funds stay stable from year to year perhaps even grow slightly if we allow reserves to build and then dip due to spending unspent funds from pre prior years it makes it look chaotic to lenders so that's where his concern is from the financial side is if we're saying oh we're just going to kind of take the money from this year and use it next year you're going to start seeing those dips and waves and if we need to get money from lenders like we do with the fire truck they look at that and go W this is the city's not stable because they're doing things like that so just food for thought okay I I I see I see what you're saying I I understand their concern when we have 52,000 upd from last year it shouldn't just get put on the bottom line of the checkbook just be be in the kitty and not be used for what it was originally intended for so if you're looking at that extra 52 and then you look at the CIP fund I wanted to put in 130 then you're actually putting in 180 in the CIP fund you know and and so I mean um there's a point where we have Capital Improvements that should be used for what we have with the city and I think cities pull from that as they do improvements I think that's a normal growth with a city City that if you have a cost it's going to come out you know so I you know I it's the reality of what there is as as you get more equipment that there is in the city so you're going to be dipping into the CIP fund you know and and I would love to have Mike turn around and and have a discussion with everybody in the council so that we can ask him some of these questions and talk about it instead of just being you know you talking to Mike instead of the rest of us being aware of this you know because the council is the one that makes the decisions of what goes on financially too we're responsible for this well I think there's a practice we want to try and I I see this as a bad practice for the reasons that Jason has shared with us that we this becomes a slippery slope you start looking at taking this approach to well we you know Public Works got some money left over here let's move it over to the next year and let's go down here to the fire department let's move that money over and all of a sudden we are seeing these and I think it's just a very poor practice to start doing that yes there's money left yes there's money we didn't spend so how we got our tax payer property taxes for the next year to work with and that's what we're doing here but I mean they going that's the thing there's funds that are left over every here but we don't know what those funds are I mean that's kind of where we're wondering is what what is it even from years past we we nobody's telling us what that number is and I think it's right for us to know you in your packet it's in your packet if you look at that packet number it shows you $800 and some thousand in a general fund included in that is my understanding that's the CIP and the general fund that's not CIP dedicated so we know what it is but that's not CIP CIP is separate from it's within that dollar figure though there's no we only have four accounts there's no fifth account like that's what L page 122 right now see War loal available balance and our packet shows a $ 50,53 and that's what we have and our that's our 100 fund for my understanding so did did we I a question that did we get the check from the county for the taxes is that why these two numbers are from last 800 Jason correct me if I'm wrong but they $850,000 balance that is what that we did receive the December check from the county so we have $850 $850,000 to work with until we get the next check in know first of July so the first of July and in the last of the year when we get other 60 months I just verifying because because we're up uh 220,000 on that account and we're up a quarter of a million on the other account I just want to make sure that's where those numbers come from the no November the November budget said we had 768 th000 in one and now that account says we had a mil 68,000 in it that's make sure that's where that we have in our packet all the checks sent invoices everything that's okay I just verified where that the numbers there so it's all there in front of us every month as well I can see reducing that 50,000 if you look at years 2019 2022 32,000 would you say that again you said do we can reduce that reduce what the $50,000 figure in our budget proposal okay if we reduce it say 40,000 and if we look at their ice sanding I'm sorry ice and snow removal lower the 50,000 400 to 402 43 43,000 and take the sanding and reduce that down to well it looks pretty good look at 2023 is 236 2022 is 239 2019 was 232 I'm not say I'm not saying it doesn't look doesn't look comparable what we did in years as past last year was an exceptionally different winter and we didn't use it sure so so you're looking at taking $110,000 out Ryland on on line 280 yes I would I would propose that okay well it's split up so 278 and 290 make out 280 so the lines though where do you want them coming from let's just take the the snow and ice and do the 50 and knock that down to 40 and leave the sanding where it is and that way it' be easy adjustment that there is so only taking 10,000 that instead of 50 right so I make a motion we change 278 from 50,000 to 40,000 and snow thank you I wouldn't we cut it deeper well I don't know why we wouldn't cut it deeper I don't either they're only taking 10,000 out of a $50,000 difference because we're on contract with them and if well we're on contract happens we're we're on contract with them that doesn't mean that we we didn't send him that money all for 2024 you're only sending him the money that he bills you for I understand the contract thing the money the money is already in the checkbook at that point if we need to use it we need to use more of it it's there well right well you get you got $52,800 left in the checkbook from last from the 2024 budget it was not used and it's sanding money if that's the case use it for 2025 right there's not a it's not a problem I'm not saying cut anything other than why would you why would you budget that again why would you put a why why would you put why would you put4 ,000 in a line when you don't have to because you're basically doubling this money my understanding this unused money from this year goes into our funds what fund the hundred fund the well general fund bank account yeah it's your general fund right so it's staying in the checkbook and if if we cut it and we actually need need it we're going to have to pull out of the the 100 fund to pay for it anyway right exactly so we're looking at what we're what next year are we're going to need for this stuff my point is this is 2025 we're dealing with my point is this is already in the checkbook why would you add more than the difference you need to bring up to that to that to that 75,6 because the 2024 money goes to the it hasn't been I don't care where it goes it's it's in it's in it's in the it's in the checkbook it's in the general fund that's where the checks come from is a general fund when when when they pay the bills that's where they come from correct it still adds to the bottom line right you know one way or another it's adding to the bottom line and and it's raising raising the taxes I I think we should cut it a little bit deeper I don't think they don't necessarily say 50 ,000 but it an actual use in 2019 at 43 that's for I so it is very realistic to spend 40 and go over had some light years yeah that's yeah that's for that's for one line and the other line is pretty comparable already too so you're talking two lines there y but between the two of them there's 52,000 wasn't used the motion we have is to lower the 50,000 to 40,000 any other comments I think it should be lower 25,000 at a minimum I make it as a friendly motion make a friendly amendment to ryland's motion of the 10,000 to make it 25,000 to drop it by 25,000 well that's the lowest of any five years we've had so I I really just don't think that's maybe you're missing my point I got your point point in the checkbook okay whatever Move Along so the motion we have is so that was a friendly amendment to 25 or to take 25 off of it instead of 10 going to make that line item then which should be item 278 line item make instead of 50,400 to 25,400 but that's taking the that's taking the principle what you're saying is that we use money from last year nope it's it's in the bank but that's a poor practice but we still have that's a poor practice I don't think it is I don't think watch watch it I don't think watching your pocketbook is poor practice I I would I would venture to say anybody watching this discussion online is probably laughing and I wouldn't blame them because I don't I I can't see any anybody in this audience that would say hey I got an extra 50 Grand just here do this but you do that for the reason our financial planner told us what we should be doing and not doing and once you do it here it's a setting a precedent that's a very poor practice I understand what you're saying you can do with your personal checkbook that's great but a city budget is a lot different we have taxpayer money every year that we use we budget we use okay do do it do do what you want to do with it I'm just pointing it out so the public sees that we're not using their money I really do do believe that so I won't accept your Amendment and we'll leave it at 40,000 for the for the rationale and for the reasons that we're using to keep uh above table budgeting process I don't think there's anything below table that I don't I don't believe that below table above table I don't like that comment I think that's transparency exactly what it is yes all in favor of the $40,000 figure signify by saying I I post no it's approved okay what was the next item okay so that was 40,000 or 4,400 10,000 off want to make sure number in here it's 40,000 reduce it by 10,000 40,4 let's go back we we jump ahead I just want to take a second I'm going to go down to the bottom here so everybody can see where we're at online with our current adjustments so we're down to a ly increase of 12.1 % with a tax rate increase of 4.4% so far yeah I want to go um fire department starts at line 188 and I had made note on line 19 too we had an In-N-Out and that's from the state that pays us for um the fire for what they have for retirement is that that Revenue line you talk that's Revenue line it's in and out for the 16200 I don't think that should be in there as an expense 192 I think it's good to leave it in there from the purpose it is an in- andout and we have good documentation from year to year the bottom line stays the same good record we have over if we have a revenue we have to have an expense so where would the expense go well again I'm I'm looking it put it someplace however you want to do it I'm just saying I just want to make note of that that that that's not that they're spending that money the state gives it to us and it takes it out right away you point is that that not really an expense that the fire department is using okay it goes into what what it is for their um retirement F that's not falling on the tax yeah yeah it's just it's it's out and it's it's gone so in reality should we have it as a revenue coming in I don't know if we should look at it as a revenue coming in if it's going out you know for that that part behind it is you'd put it on their expenses well you almost have to show is revenue coming in because it's coming into the city somewhere for documentation purposes somewhere somewhere that's coming in but I'm just saying it's not like if fire department is spending that money so your point is that their budget shouldn't reflect that $16,000 right dollar that that are you proposing that what are you proposing I guess because well it just shouldn't show it in there as as being part of it and and it goes along too with a with a couple of the things that I'm looking at but we'll look at that one in particular first then we'll go to the next one which is line the difference between line 17 188 or 192 excuse me because it says it's Minnesota state 2% for retirement it's not CL that's not clarified in line 17 somewh line 17 should totally reflect that that money be what's that it can be added I think that's should that's the answer to that that needs to be clarified right here where the money comes in where it should go really not we can make that change I think we can make that change what line was that L 17 description on line line 17 and line 192 add that line 17 description minimum and been State 2% for retirement please add that to line 17 description the other one that I'm looking at is U for General equipment fund 208 45,00 and that's a truck lease payment um that should be coming out the CIP funds because that is a capital expenditure that there is for that truck and uh I make a motion that um for that uh that amount for the 4,038 off of the truck um being taken out the CIP and that we also turn around and develop a CIP fund for itself for the fire department for that 45,000 to be able to be used in the future so that we're developing a fund that there is for them for new equipment down the road and also for uh whether it be the packs or or for fire equipment that we need because we need a new tanker we need some of these coming up down the road we got to start a fund for them so okay you talk about using it a fund for them I guess I so in other words 45 I think should come out of our CIP fund that we have right now for Capital Equipment because it's Capital Equipment and then for the 45 that's in the budget right there to have that be put into their own CIP fund that's ear marked as fire I I'd like to ask a clar question so you're saying take the 38,000 off of here or the 45 what we can take the 30 38,000 for the truck payment okay for the truck payment the 38,000 off of there and then next year that 38,000 will come out of our 425 account and then take that money that's there and let them create their own four their own CIP account right so we're going to double spend the amount truck payment amount we're just putting it yeah it's basically we're we're putting that back in so that they've got that to have CU otherwise we're not building that fund then then we got caught with the air packs this time around with it with that part of it and trying to do it because the airpacks are going to expire in five years and so somehow we've got to start building some of that up to be able to handle that expense that's there so if you look at the letter I don't think it's in your packet um Jason sent out a letter on December the 11 11 uh which included the 425 fund and if you look at that 425 fund we are we have a fire department Capital outlay Equipment is that's where all equipment is this purchase problem this year we spent within that Capital outlay year to date we spent $14,290 um in the previous years with engine number one that's where we paid fire department or engine number one out of so there is an account already set up to cover capital outlay and within that at the top of the sheet is our pull tab donation revenues and within that is pull tab donations and this year it's been year-to dat through end of November I think it's $1,457 so there is an account where Revenue comes into Capital Improvement under P tab donations and there is a fire department Capital outlay that all the equipment this is what we've used in the past to cover all of the fire equipment engine number one um and any other pieces of equipment the First Responders vehicle some of that outfitting well then then what we'll do is we'll just make a note that that amount of money goes into the 425 fund and and have it have it be put into the 425 so that we at least know where it's at you know so we can account for the 38 I okay um so there's a question of I guess what I understand what you're asking for and I think from an accounting purposes it would be better to just reduce the 45,000 here to um $7,000 for other expenditures yeah but I want CIP money is all CIP when the fund comes out in January that'll come from the CIP now but I I I want to build that that fund which is only fair for the fire department that's your Mar for fire okay cuz right now we're go into General and we don't know where it goes even so you say it's on a 425 uh for us watching this that's the first time that I've really seen the 425 to this degree in the three years that I've been with the council okay which is a little bit of transparency that goes on with it I just want 100% transparency but I think it's good for them to have that ear Mark that to have another 38,000 if that's the case to go back in if we want to do it to the 425 that's fine that's where that's I I'm just saying the 425 and its current existence will take care of that we take it out of the budget we got to pay it out of the CIP and then we come out of this Capital outlay fund that's already in existence and that's where pull tab donations have been going into and all the expenditures that came out for outfitting it this year yeah Department that's that's there on this you want to comment on anything that there is in the audience over there with with Dan or what what your comments are on this I think like I think like you said Jim the the 38,000 is that for payment Capital Improvement versus having it in our budget great out that General equipment go though from our 4500 last year to 7,000 this year that would be excellent and I I think we could all agree that it would be great if we could do two things one make sure that we are saving for every year for you know bigger purchases so maybe our normal budget can stay more flat um and then we can pull out of that fund um and two we we definitely want to see the ins and the outs of that 425 fund where our PAB and other money so we know what's in there so we're okay by pulling the 38 the CIP and um go that direction so just want to leave it that way or do you want to leave where we're trying to put that 38 also back into the the fire fund for future that there is for thep fire Jason's scratching this I just I question because again this whether you're pulling it out of here or pulling it out of the 425 account it's still the $38,000 is coming from the same pot in my head so I'm trying to understand why I moved around at least here we've got it line item in the 100 fund everybody can see yep truck payment's going to come out of here it still gets them to 7,000 like we know right where it's coming from I don't have a problem with them building up before their own CIP account and where I think that would come in from my side is to create a physical account checking account for them with their own where we can transfer funds into that versus saying oh we're just going to put it in our 425 account I I think we're trying to move too many pieces whereas here it stays as the line a budget it's seen by everybody it's on our general it's in every month it's there it's it's visible and so when it comes out that gets seen right away and then like I said if they want to start donating or putting in things and putting into this account we can create a separate bank account under the city to say okay you gave us 10,000 it's going to go in the 425 on ours and get moved into that bank account I'm looking at more of the 38 and I I make sense on what you're trying to do cuz I'm just trying to isolate it so that they can work with that they're they're very good on how they control their own funds and and how they watch their stuff uh but I don't think that that you know having it come out of their budget I think that that 38,000 is going to come out of the CIP instead of out of their budget well it's still be coming out of their CIP budget is my thing so it's it's still coming up our our CIP or if you want to look at it okay well you were saying create their own cips that's where I'm confused is so it's still coming out of the city's budget because we are the Department as the city it is our budget as a city and so it's still the taxpayers budget is taxpayers money so that's why I'm to me this is more transparent having it in their line item expense in their 100 account which is why it was put here so that way people can see that side of it that's my thought guys fire department Dan heard our opinion where would you propose a 38,000 line item go as an expense well I would reduce the the 45 to make it with take that 38,000 out of there I believe we still have to show that we're going to spend 38,000 on the truck somewhere whether it comes out of CIP or or the budget or in creating a an additional line that says 38,000 the truck coming out of CIP well let me ask a question well we would we would we buy a pickup for Public Works do we what fund do we take that out Public Works fund or we take it out of the general fund comes out of the CIP so Public Works res spent 47795 out of C right I'm just I'm just saying where does it come from so if it's coming out of the CIP fund for the public works fire department the same thing probably should be coming out there also Paul that's typically done because CIP is supposed to be like a onetime purchase fund so it's usually it's those bigger funds those bigger purchase is not meant to be a lease payment over 10 years it's meant to say okay we saved up $300,000 let's go buy this fire truck for $300,000 so that's why you're seeing those truck payments from you know like Kane coming out it's just the the onetime purchase of the new vehicle and we had a choice of doing that last year or to do it this way which is way we did it on the lease instead of paying for it which we could have last year too well I make a motion that um that $38,000 gets paid by the CIP that's your motion you had earlier who seconded that I didn't I'll second I thought it was Oh I thought it second I thought you that reduces this number to seven to 7,000 so just to be clear you know we're not saying we're not going to pay the fire department the lease payment when we took out the back in February when we purchased the uh the Le agreement it was 385 I think for seven years we're not paying right if we're not paying it who is CIP is paying it the city's paying it so that would leave instead of 45 that would leave us at 7,000 that right 6500 right 3 6500 37 so so where are we moving at 30 38 too is that5 that's not on here the CIP that is 6,500 right 7, 37 almost almost 38 for the truck in would be 37 7,000 yeah and I'd still like to work on on for us to develop a CIP or bank account for the fire department on I think that's a really good goal for the beginning of next year but for this motion we're just going to reduce that from 45 to 7,000 correct any other comments see all those in favor signify by saying I I oppose okay anything else okay we're going to go over the packs which is 217 we'll do that in that other part of our packet um for the packets that's for the air packs for the Scott that's the separate thing we have in our uh packet that we have for the city council packet before you do that let's see where we're at sorry I'm just trying to get this mouse work okay so that's 7,000 and that 38 was going to CIP it just goes off or just removing it not moving it to the CIP just removing it and just take 38 back out of the tip okay I'm gonna marks this expenditure for fire truck so we know I'm just making quick not SC okay back to Scott Scott Air packs yeah well the Scott Air packs we're discussing that under City counil for what there is for how we're paying for uh the used equipment that there is and that's one Jason did separately so we can discuss that at that time and it says for purchase used gear locally which is the 8,000 what you say well again we we found a way to do I think that that that was outlined in specifics that Jason did right Jason off of that so we can discuss that that time yeah I think so yeah I that should take care of that part of it I know I know in the workshop we dled some numbers on to cover a bunch of what and I think that was was laid out pretty good in our in our packet in in our Council packet oh got you so were we done there something we're talking about what I think we're we're done with that part of us I'd like to I was looking for Dan or yo right here for for the air packs I think we said that in the workshop we said that we use a 22 right something 22 and change this year and then from next year and then we needed to come up with another yeah you had 22549 is what was what was what didn't get used for the that Grant thing share that's what you're going to use for currently okay so that covers you guys right uh we still need that we we still need an extra six but we we said that we would take it out a different fund from 2024 could you come to the podium please comment recorded right okay so in the in the workshop I think we talked about um talked about using the 225 from this year right to we're working our way to 36,000 um or 40 sorry 40,000 um and we were going to use eight in 2025 right so now we're at 30,000 and then I believe we talked about using $10,000 out of the um full tabs or I'm sorry 10% money so that would get us to that $40,000 so that that covers your packs for this year no covers packs for the next 5 years you know but we have to build up to be able to replace those packs in five years well these are used packs but yes yeah okay talk about later you get something started for well that's what I wanted to do the fire VIP fund that we'll be able to put in there that they can you know start working with not only that it's radios turnout gear quite a few things that can be instrument abely expensive yeah I mean the pagers are really expensive $1,000 for a pager okay um First Responders are you okay with everything on First Responders that we had you anything okay that takes care that but I just want make sure I'd like to go to line 260 7 it's public work stuff but they uh these aren't broke down by each offices all the office staff is broke down by each position on the budget this is all one big lump but I'd like to reduce that to three full-time employees and one part-time right those are the three current employees plus the new employee replacement no three three fulltime and then when we bring somebody on later on this year that'd be a part-time person to work through the summer permanent parttime part I understand yeah that's you know probably won't start till February or March but yeah but it's a full-time equivalent so well I you know I'm just looking because we had put four in there because we were working with the sewer and that was the whole reason behind the fourth person was for the sewer and that's not happened no I'm not talking about I'm not talking about people I'm talking about three full time and one part time that's part time is for I for the cleaning here that's for Ezra the clean for cleaning here he's the part person I get that all I don't have a breakdown there have been a lot of hookups but there's still some hookups left and just that overall we get back into the warm season and we're not hiring any seasonal people that's the plan so the idea is that we just replace it to get to full staff what we had at the end of the year we're just posting that position yeah I don't think that position needs to be filled early I mean that can go all the way back to almost May to save the money that there is this year because you know there's you don't need to have a person there during the winter time that's sitting inside not doing anything so I I I think I don't know if that's correct analogy there but that's I I think we can save some money off of it is what I'm trying to get is there a breakdown that there is on that position Jason that you had on the it shows no breakdown for public work the salary spreadsheet so's so there's no way to get the mouse work Caleb's position line 20 yeah yeah so we're not going to put in line 17 so that would the new fulltime employee that's not going to be there right right yeah that one zero okay so that's at zero yeah I would I would look at line 20 and cut down off for that because we don't need to bring them in until you know summertime I think off of that so we could save some money there maybe Kane can speak this the concern I would have that from my from the city side is getting someone trained up on everything they need to do takes time um and so it's one of those things where I think putting them in sooner rather than later so we can get them ready for summertime is important but I can let Kane talk to his positions I think the training is is a good point because right now I believe they trade off every weekend one every once a weekend with four people three people's down to more than one time a month but so with four people they were doing a one well check one weekend per month which gives the other three off but the same time we're also going to be picking up on Call on call with the grinder systems and I think it's good to have that a full staff with four people to help maintain that too but are we seeing that happen right now yes is it evenly spread or is it is it just one person talk about that yeah I can talk yeah what uh specifics what do you guys want to talk about so for on call and and Ryland mentioned the the well checks y so is that being dispersed evenly across so it's not just you because I know you had a ton of comp time I I did I did and and you know the reasons behind that is because uh training getting all the staff up to that that level of uh uh being comfortable with those systems uh it's a complex system Joel can speak to that uh I would suggest we hire somebody to fill you know I I wanted a a new FTE for 2025 right and my reasons were to uh get our hours at the treatment facility so we haven't had time in 2024 to commit a person to the plant we haven't had that the that buffer we haven't had the manpower to do that 2024 was busy out of control my comp time shows that so my initial request for 2025 was another person so we could continue what our current workload was but dedicated person at the treatment facility to obtain licenses the whole idea here is within three years of April this year we would have staff with uh a Wastewater license and we would eventually be able to get out of the people's Services contract hire a signing operator similar to what other towns do and we would we would save we wouldn't have that large contract that annual contract so with that the next two and a half years it would be nice to have uh my staff myself included rotate at the treatment facility gain the onsite hours to take our licenses right there's no we can't we can't substitute anything for those on-site hours so we need additional staff so we can do that we we we we're never going to get our our waist licenses unless we commit to ours at the plant and I'm saying to you guys that the workload is with these grinder systems uh the additional water system it's just a lot and I don't think we have that that extra time to say one of us go to the plant this week and and remove them from the rest of the our our current duties so that's why I was requesting that additional person for 2025 well again it was one of those things that peoples has not been Cooperative on being able to do that and so that's one of the issues that we've run into now uh one of the things that that I had suggested will suggest again is is to turn around and and to hire what's licensed as a b operator okay to be able to to do that to allow us to be able to contract for the A and look down the road two years down the road on how we can do this and get out of peoples okay CU I would like to get out of peoples yes uh I agree uh what we need is a class A operator I understand that but it's not easy to find an a operator but but regardless if we hired a b operator we'd still have to contract with peoples or or another just a separate person that that we could do independent away from people on the pine and so what I'm trying to say then Jim is we would we would it' be more economical to have Public Works employees at a minimal license paying them lesser wages to do the day today operations at the treatment facility and have the signing operator if we hire a Class B wastewater operator that person's going to be looking at the $50 an hour and they will not be doing anything else besides sewer right but but but but could we have them do things other than sewer I I because you don't have them out there fulltime anyway with people I mean this is a discussion that I think we should be looking at I think I think a lot of these discussions should have been happening we we should have year round I feel like I feel absolutely like tonight we're going to be cutting a lot of things that we're going to be sorry uh months from a couple months from now well I mean we still have stuff that there is left over in case we need to in the budget that's that's always there for left over from this year so there's still going to be money that's there but I'm just saying I'm I'm looking at at how we look at this because eventually I would like to have people's out I'd like to have us have that utilities under our control on what we're operating I think it can be a cost savings for the city and it would be under our control yep absolutely uh other towns around here do it just like just like you said they have a signing a operator he comes out three times a week by law and uh he has a staff on-site staff a public works department that is knowledgeable that does the day-to-day operations turns the vals does the testing the a operator is responsible for the the permitting and holding that license land applying uh that's where that a operator that a license that's what costs money you know so so if we were to do that that would cost anywhere between uh just shooting from the hip here 75 to 100,000 a year to have that signing operator now if we had a public works staff that was knowledgeable trained and had the knowhow at the wastewater treatment facility uh we could have guys one guy on site possibly two guys on site that would do that stuff that would do the day-to-day operations but we need to get that a signing operator that's that's going to be the key here when the people's contract is up so the short the short story here is we got about two and a half years to get staff hire staff get staff knowledgeable and get them to the point where we can say we don't want people's contract we're going to hire an a signing operator and move forward but there's a lot of things that need to fall into place and one of those first things is our current staff getting ours there so this winter is going to be a good time time to do that you know uh we're not sitting around there's plenty of things to do right now uh lift stations 83 grinder pumps eight lift stations two portable generators uh two permanent generators uh 14 air release manholes there is a lot 22 miles of pipe there is a lot okay uh I want to take this this uh off seon this winter season and I would like to get my staff trained up to a level of comfort frankly right now they're they're not there they need more hands-on experience with all of this stuff I've been involved with the project from from years ago right I mean the last three years I've i' I've this is all I've done is this project uh it's it's been time consuming there's a lot to it it's complex this isn't an easy system it's very complex there's a lot of different uh areas and it takes time to get there I would say if we hired someone today to fill our current vacancy I would say in a year's time they would start to get that Comfort level uh We've witnessed that with with our past employees it takes about a year to get to the point where they're comfortable enough to say yes I can handle the water system or yes I can I can take on some more responsibility it it takes a while to get there uh and and a year and a year maybe not be long enough some people may need more time to get that familiarity and you know it's not just Plumbing it's not just sewer it's not just water there's electricity there's there's power generation there's there's a lot to this and uh but is that based on the skill level that you're hiring you think K well so here's the thing we could hire we could hire people that have 10 years experience in water and sewer utilities public works right now we're going to need to hire them we won't be able to pay him that pay range of 20 to 30 an hour we're going to be need to pay in those guys 35 to 50 an hour you know it's h h how do how the city wants to to go about that JY I I'm I'm up for that discussion if we want to hire that that person with 15 years of experience excellent I think some benefit there but also hiring the right employee without that experience and we can kind of you know work them into that that employee in the long run so we we can have that discussion uh moving forward but but right now we're we're just uh hiring you know uh entry level Public Works positions so uh if it's broke fix it if it's got wheels drive it right I mean we're this is a basic entry position with the ability to grow and grow and uh someday I hope that our public work staff myself self-included could become a operators for the treatment facility that is eight years down the road from now if all the pieces fall into place eight years from now I could possibly take my a license okay that's if everything falls into place so we need to get started on getting these hours curiosity how many hours is people's out there a week it's a good question uh I asked that when we did contract with them when we met them and uh they never gave us a firm answer right right now it's like $119,000 a month I think it is so next year it's 225,000 next year 225,000 for the year okay so take that plus the 75,000 that covers Jason uh City Hall time billing my time locates Grinders lift stations air releases generators you name it right 75,000 doesn't cover it if we're if we're going to be truthful that 75 is light so but let's just play along here 300,000 in wages for this sewer utility just in wages our our electric bill is is over 10 grand a month right so now we're at 4 20,000 just in electricity and wages right so uh when when Jason does bring up Mike bubani and the CIP and having that money to to assist and and work off that sewer utility uh that that is a concern of mine you know we're already I don't have that my pad with me but you know sewer right now is minus 170 in the whole just for this year you know so so sewer is not doing good right now and I would go to say water is not either and we're not talking about those funds right now we're just talking about 100 fund so they're kind of used together though right the Public Works staff is is Manning the water and sewer utilities and I I need more staff I like I said I wanted to increase my staff go from four FTE to five I wanted to do that and now uh the proposal here is to go to three FTE so I'm just a little concerned with with how next year is going to play out no when I said that I I said you know three plus bringing the other one in a little bit later you know with what there is okay you're explaining the training okay which which puts you back to four which is is what we originally looked at last year to have that replacement and and the rotation that there is off off of that okay and and you're right I'm looking the same way you are down the road for the future of how do we do this and how do we work into that other situation to get rid of people's okay for us to bring that in um and it's looking at these other funds and we're pulling a lot of the labor that there is for the hund what was it that we pulled out uh U I'm just trying to think of 130,000 or whatever that we pulled out of that fund to put into the wages that there are in the city so it's a balancing act on what we're looking at off of that so and that was the transfer in you know from the 600 fund and 620 fund or whatever but okay I I see that that explains what what's going on with the port so we're going to transfer $75,000 from the 600 fund water and 75 75 from sewer into page one of this 100 fund right so so that money is going to pay for Jason City Hall my Public Works team myself our time dedicated to those utilities okay and then so that's what we're balancing off of for that those funds that have and I'm saying that 75 is going to be light 83 grinder stations that are calling out every day with alarms uh it's it's a lot you have that many everyday calling out I I get an alarm every day yep one thing I'll say3 not all 83 you're right Steves has not given an alarm yet Steve's got a good one and and just to be clear to to your point that that we're running in the red and water and sewer that is common it is for at least least a few years that is common absolutely water's been going since 2010 we're 15 years into it and you know we've got some we've got some infrastructure we've got things that need to be replaced and and added to and uh you know a locator costs 5,000 bucks right so I mean you can't go to Sam's Club and get and get the equipment you need for for these utilities so but that's that's util talk if we want to talk 100 fund I need Staffing I need Staffing and I need I need people available uh right now when somebody takes off there's only there's only two or three of us on site if if my position is more uh uh supervisory in office I'm not in the field I'm not turning wrenches I can and I find myself being in two places at once right I'm running over to Steve's place to to to work on his water but I'm also dealing with the budget right I'm I'm constantly fighting of where I need to be and I'm constantly trying to juggle where my guys need to be so having an additional person what we initially talked about for 2025 that would just alleviate some of this you know running around with my head cut off I mean it's it's been a crazy couple years here with this project and I get we only have about you know 80 connections left but those 80 connections we don't have control when those happen those are Friday afternoon those are Saturday morning those are those are those are July 4th those are we don't have any control over that and people call and they want it now right somebody's hooking up the water somebody's hooking up the sewer and we have to shuffle our department and I'm trying to do that I'm trying to cover more ours with with the same amount of people and now possibly less people so so how many connections say we do this last year last year well all in we're at 4 460 on the sewer and we're looking at about well 490 on water so so 0 is I mean we're on the downhill swing which is good okay for for the connections coming up for this next year so most most of them were were over that hump which is what I'm trying to get at so I can I can see your your your point on on getting back up to um do a full four you know on what's going on to look this year off of that okay yeah so I was at four for 2024 I was at 4 FTE I'll leave it at that I think I think four is going to be fine for this next year and see what we we do I will will be coming back next year and asking for additional Staffing I that's that that that's fine I I think that we need to do it and take a look this year and I I I don't think we can put that burden on on the residents this year for for that extra okay you guys got any other questions for me I know there's a couple different departments here thank you K thank you Kate we respect what you're asking for so we'll make sure all right we keep the four all right I'll be there anything else before we wrap it up well the only thing else I'll be making a comment on is on 296 296 and I I think we need to be keeping an eye on this it's you've heard a lot of comments that there are with the residents that we've got to start looking at the streets coming down the road so I think that we need to keep that in mind that we need to increase that not necessarily right now but but to look at what we can do for for that street part of it I think that'd be important so at least we're we're being aware even no leave it at 50 I think that that that needs to next year go up so think that's a good plan right so there's no other comments you want to pull the 're the other thing I want to mention is our forensic audit what account or what line item do we want to take this out of what bucket I and I put it on table to give everyone an idea talked with the company to understand in general what does a forensic a is that later in our agenda to talk about well he got to put it in the budget yeah but we got to put it in the budget unless we're going to hold off on the budget until we talk about it no we got I'm just looking at a perspective of approving that versus putting in the budget got to go in the budget to look at November meeting was to do exactly what you've done you pulled together some information I guess handed to us here before the meeting we we just talked about it as we see on the letter it's anywhere between five and 15 and I would I would propose that we put 15 in if we don't use it then great but I think we need to add it to the budget you had had um I think a question in our Workshop where you would put it yeah I didn't get anything back out of there would be under Professional Services Under 153 we could add it under line item 154 which is um auditing and accounting services contct I just I mean we could do that too to clarify the difference between the the regular no we can just mark it in there as that instead of having to create a whole new there and identif that's one comment I would have just in general is that with limited staff of Jason um be very difficult to respond to to this company I guess you had more than one quote or one uh we started out we had Ed one go through um and it's yeah we had to discuss I don't think it's going to be that much time that there is from Jason from what I understand you talked to him to Jim so yeah and I I think we'd start with the fire department and and see how long that takes how much money is spent on that I make a motion what's go ahead uh I make a motion uh to add $115,000 for the friend that got at the line 154 on auditing and accounting services to look at the fire department and uh just to research where the money has has been used and allocated this quote is specifically looking at the fire department funds pardon I said this this quote is specifically looking at the fire department funds right now we put that to bed that's that's what I want to do is to put it to bed once and for all that this is what happened we done well this this sheet says the engagement include review of city and fire department record well I'm just saying what it says the fire department would be the first one and and if there's a need and there's money left if so it's it's the fire giving money to the city so that's why it's written the way it is but just a look at the fire department it's been a question for years they just want to get it done to rest yeah so motions there a seconds there okay that put that to 53,000 Y right so in the in the 425 sheet that Jason sent to us on November 11th that I've met referenced a couple times already you know the figures that are in there for the year to date full tab donations I think that's what you agree that's but you got just for the mere fact that the fire department agrees 154,000 for fire department and 63,000 for the First Responders for a total of$ 28,6 7480 is I'm assuming it's documented within those line items within those accounts well that's what we wanted to try to clarify on that Ryland because there's a figure that the fire department has that doesn't match us with what that fund is that's there so we want to know what's actually there from what they've talked about so we can can come up with $263,000 that the the fire department can can identify that was given to the city and we don't know where it went so what we're trying to do is identify where it went and it's a question that's been there for years with the fire department and it's something that that whatever it did I just want it to be done so the fire department doesn't think that the city did something that they shouldn't have or whatever just to put it to B for this amount of money to do it and and I think it's well worth it to go into that forensic audit to be able to do that I really do and we heard from our citizens yeah citizens want to know too that to get into this stuff just to see what's happening so just please can't talk so I think it's I would prefer to if I may I would prefer to motion I prer to wait until we U we look at these accounts to see where these numbers have come from from this year and at the same time just go back X number of years and see what has gone into pull tabs for revenue and see what's gone into expenditures and I think that will tell exactly what your forensic auditor would find I think that an independent auditor is the right way to do it Ryland right now uh Jason doesn't have enough time we need an independent to be able to do this and so that's why again the motion is on for us to approve this to have that that done but independent is what we need because they got to get into what's going on okay so let me offer this then our firm is an independent firm no we want a different one Ry we want this an independent accounting firm we want a different and you can look at our files and do the same thing this one's going to do no look at the same numbers we want to do a different one for in particular with what's going on because you have the same firm that's doing it they're just going to go along with what those people have to say this is why we want to go this way with this independent one that there is and this one came recommended and we've had this firm for how many years and this this is where we're at so I I I I that's why the motion's on there and second in that that we want to put that in to have it done with with this firm we put it up for a vote then so I think it's important that but you recognize that numbers that went in these numbers are numbers are in files and so whether an independent output from Eden Prairie looks at it or an independent firm from Rochester looks at the same number it's going to tell us the same thing well if it comes up that way then then great well worth it so that we can put this to bed once and for all with the fire department spend a lot of time cutting money here and there and now we're going to add I'm assuming $15,000 um I've had a lot of feedback that this has been a concern um I've also had a lot of feedback that um there's something that I we haven't seen an official Complaint either that this money is missing so as of right now it's hearsay I haven't seen anything official now is there I I'm with you I want to put this thing to bed but I want it to be very clear this $15,000 is coming back out of tax money that we just cut spent the last few hours cutting on so so just just but we we're also we're also spending $155,000 to put this to bed for transparency MH right but we're not focused on the transparency of the future by allowing a financial officer so I just want to put that out there that even though I I'm with you I want this settled that this is It's kind of backwards okay I I'll disagree respectfully because Dan I think in in terms of or Daniel I'm sorry in terms of the transparency with the financial officer versus city clerk I think what's one going to bring that the other doesn't in that respect so on the other side of it you had mentioned that there's been no formal complaint there has been we we've had the fireman ear at Council meetings during my time throughout the four years saying the same thing and they've been told I I remember Sunny specifically said well I know the money is there but I can't tell you what count and I remember that exact meeting I was watching it online sitting in Tennessee I I remember the exact meaning but somebody coming to the podium and saying hey we have a discrepancy is not a formal complaint so if there was a formal complaint I apologize because I wasn't aware of it but and in front of the podium up here saying hey there's a discrepancy not formally asking to look into it I mean there should have been something in writing some formal complaint I think if they address the council I would look at that as formal because they they're saying hey we have money missing where's the money out of our checkbook where's the money out of this account to me that's how much more formal can you get other than writing a letter and saying hey it's missing and they they ask specifically for that to be looked into well and like I said I'm going to reiterate I am I am all for putting this to bed I'm with you um that's that's what we're trying to do is to put it to bed but it's got to be clear this is coming out of the the money that we just spent the last couple hours cutting we're putting it right back in in a different line so well it's it's a lot less than than what there is but yeah it is coming back into it there's no question about it but I think it's important for the citizens to know and for the fire department and for the First Responders you know I mean if you look at what we pull in in for even with the Christmas thing that there is with the way that that the city looks at the high and the First Responders you we had 380 people that showed up for that Saturday that there was which is great you know but but that's the way that that the residents look at this and I would just like to have the department you know one way or another finally taken care of and to have that out of our the question that we get you know so I want to get it resolved and I hope it's proven wrong and yes right I said my piece do we have a vote then on that any other comments when you were talking to this company did they maybe they did or didn't did they ask for a formal complaint from you guys about what exactly is the issue they're looking for what said you we told them it would be Fire Relief fire depart not relief but Fire Department fire department relief is fine fire department yeah you said Fire Relief Association gambling fund so I mean the $10,000 is a very reflective year figure yeah we we told them the relief was fine it's it's the fire department the the the relief gets audited independently every year for what they have to go through you know so that's that's not a part of it yeah so before this gets initiated though I do believe that we need to sit down and we need to have very clear goals for what we want them to look at because that could inflate that number of all of a sudden going oh we want you to look at this we want you to look at that I mean yep so we need to have very clear directions I wouldn't even mind having another uh quote from another company appreciate you going out I we had to at least get something to be able to put it in the budget so we can move ahead off that so the motion's there we got a second put it up for a vote any other comments I with you Dan I think it does need a second but I do think there needs to be very detailed expectations not only author department but also the city too you're asking for a city I'm not sure what you're asking of the city is that the personnal department or what are you asking about City should City and Fire Department Records well records for the fire department the fire department gives the money to the city so it's you have to put both of them in there because the money comes into the City and so that's why it had to be generates these reports but it has to have fire and City that's why it a city I mean it's real simple it's not you're trying you're trying to confirm that they match yeah that's so it's it's real but you have to have City in there you just can't have fire because the funds the fire department gives to the city right is what we're looking at okay so I just want to make sure we idea the city and fire department is an entity together it's not City by itself and City and fire department right right well it's they're they're both they're both intertwined to what goes on because what the fire department writes the check and gives to the city goes to the city okay so you have to put the fire department and the city is how they did that so that's how it came up in the writing to be able to do it okay so back in November when this is brought up and you were asked to look for you made a comment about the city and personal time and this different subject than the relief fund on the fire department so is that what you're still looking for or we're not looking at relief Fire Relief is separate and they they just mentioned I believe relief because they asked relief is is fine that gets audited all the time um but the idea was this is the hot coal is the fire department is and let's start with it the fire department and and hopefully can prove that wrong and then be done with it right and and I agree with what Daniel is saying I think we need another it's got to be more specific than absolutely well and they call them procedures they'll give you a list of procedures I think anyone that that we're getting a bid from would but I think we definitely need to get more bids than one but this was just to give us some numers I appreciate you doing the work to get this out but I think that there'll be more work that needs to be do we'll need to sit down with the fire department and ask what they're wanting as well well I'm just kind hoping that this isn't a little ball budget or something just to get their foot in the door we I would be concerned of that issue yeah I mean these guys do it with a lot of cities so we have a motion on line 154 under Professional Services auditing and accounting services to add from 38,000 plus 15,000 to 53,000 motion all in favor by saying I iose N where we at Jason on this M work here nine to 10.3 ,000 from 2020 have $ 4,317 of unused Community Center budget 2024 just want to highlight that what money is sitting there we got 56,000 added to it again that balance. revenue and expenditures correct double check and that also includes putting $130,000 into CIP fund as well 38,000 of that 130 is for the fire payment put almost 100 times so resolution um yeah Ed here too okay yes to 429 um du to the situation that we we have with um everything kind of being developed it was great that we got the report that we did but um I make a motion that we put Eda on hold for a year and and uh save the $33,000 I don't think they're going to add that much to you a lot of Resident feedback to keep it you have a second sorry I'll second it discussion had a lot of Resident feedback to keep Eda the monies that they're bringing in potentially in Grants offering to help out fire department search and right grants um it takes time off of their hands um I think that brings a lot of value to the city I think that uh this time this year with what we've got with the Hamilton Group going in with what we have with um K project potential that's going on with other developments that are that are there um I think that that we're moving in the right direction um I I don't think we need to re identify what oronoko is I think oronoko will always have the stipulation of being Gold Rush no matter what it is and it's something to be proud of not just with the gold rush part of it but the fact that they did find gold here in or noo and it's Unique that no other community can say around that in their Community um so I'm just kind of looking I mean with the grants um fire department's doing good on writing grants when it comes to that um the other part of it you know writing a grant doesn't mean you're going get the money you know and so I mean you can spend a lot of time doing that but um I just this year it would be good to put it on hold next year maybe pick it back up again you know but this year that um it's it's really un needed so well I think the Eda and see a contract we're talking about the SE contract and I I just in the packet you saw the action plan for 2025 housing residential studies commissioning small business Outreach for small businesses business subsidy we can help our businesses as well new businesses a marketing a plan a branding RFQ that's going out we'll get that in January but branding it's all part of development and economic development and I just think that's just a tremendous asset that we have for the city and our residents it's not a not something we can turn off one day and turn it back on build up a relationship with your businesses and I just sense that that's a you've got the momentum going you've got seven dedicated commission members Paul you're one of them on there you and um Rebecca executive director she's a seasoned she knows CA has this throughout southeast Minnesota that they can draw from and it's a tremendous asset for our city um and I think it's just I know we talked about AG friendly um I know I'm on the 8 I understand that I think organic it's not really necessary to pay somebody to go out and knock on a neighbor doors and see hey you going to split your you want to split your place and put another house here split your property that's basically what it is I don't think we really need to be going there doing that well that's that's that's that's one of what you just said about about checking out checking up and seeing what I can do to get grow in the city you know and looking at at housing think we do that looking at housing and and all those things Ryland um I think that we've listened really to the residents and you know the answer is is not have you know all our houses we listen to what what what everybody in the city talks about and it's it's not just with the report that was done which was a great report no question about it by Eda but it's also what what we found when when we've done our work too you know with the resoning off this stuff it's the the we don't the every the residents don't want to have that and if you look and nothing against seniors and I'm a senior what was that comment that we don't want to have it languish a little bit more what that means sure what what it is is to have the the smaller houses and and those type of things is not what the the requirement is in the city for the residents of what they want they want to have have more open area they want to have the bigger houses they have kids they have that what going on with the community you know and like I said with the senior part of it I'm a senior okay I'm retired but again looking at what that is when we had the fire and the the Rel 380 people were there and and they weren't the seniors that were usually there they were the younger fames and that's what this community is is growing with younger families and that's why the average age is is 36 here in this community you know and that's where the growth is going to come because of what are school districts and different things that way so when they looked at the housing um of what there is and and where the the demand is it's it's more of the larger houses and the larger lotes so I understand what you're saying um we shouldn't as a council we shouldn't care about our senior citizens I I I didn't say that at all I did not say that 36 and big I'm I'm looking at what the the report came back for the average age in this community I'm not okay and so that's what I am and I'm looking at the the the kids that are that are in this community and the younger families okay that's that's kind of where this community is heading as as a grow you're going to find that same increase of people that are going to be buying these homes that are be coming into this community so I'm not saying anything against it because I'm a senior citizen as well like I said with what goes on I think with what we found out with looking at this with the senior group there's a lot of services that are here in I was we had the meeting over at the old school of what was really there so it's there I just think friendlies effort resources to our senior citizens they make up about 10% of our population so 90% is done with with the other parts I mean so represent the 10% I I'm part of the 10% but I'm just saying I have to look at the 90% but I don't sense you're representing them getting back to Eda I know we're talking about age friendly but the benefit that PDA brings and and I get what you're saying and I've heard the same thing larger house or same size houses same thing but we also just had I don't know how four five four or five people that don't want to pay more taxes now if we continue with large houses we have to continue to raise the taxes because those same people want amenities in the city they want splash pads they want Parks they want parks with parking lots I mean but the Eda can help get that and they can help get that money through additional funding and we can then actually give the residents their cake and let them eat it too well again you're you're saying that we can get funding I I you know the the the funding aspect and and and writing grants I think is going to come to a little bit of a of a slowing down effect whether it be state or whether it be Federal you know and and the the time I think is is going to be that way I mean if you look at the state we're over spent by by8 billion that's going to be coming out so I mean the state offering these grants and that is not the same as what what it used to be of thinking that that's being done um I just think for for this next year that there is it's a way that we can we can save that money and um that's where I I come from so do we know what is is grants written versus grants it doesn't take much to write a grant and she's very good at it she is finding the grant too it's finding the grant as well right I mean that's part of the that's part of the networking where she has other people that work with her that can say hey I just found this for such and such City check it out maybe it fits for oronoko like that's a big benefit and so cutting this all the way out and taking a complete pause like that's just stepping backwards we we've nickled and dimed this budget we just threw another 15,000 in uh I I don't understand why taking a step back is a good thing I I can't I can't understand that and I understand that we don't necessarily want people knocking on doors going hey do you want to split your lot that that is not what I have seen and I don't necessarily have agreed with every position she's taken and I don't necessarily agree with how she has um interpreted some of the survey results but she has also shown a willingness to look at a bigger picture and she has provided in my opinion a good service that year and I would love to see VA continue to support everybody in the city but do you think it's $32,000 worth I would question abely I think it's very well worth it I think it's now this is the first you know we've been doing this for two years now and this is the first year we've pulled a lot of information together and we're actively looking at a branding or we've never done that so we're getting rfps maybe we don't know what it's going to cost maybe five 6,000 but that's and the age friendly itself is subsidized not subsidized but it's an AARP organization that works with age friendly so there'll be a lot of community grants available through ARP that's just one entity that we have what Rebecca brings to us for other grants Southeast um Minnesota together Smith Foundation another opportunity for Grants small town grants there's grants available for doing murals on buildings um small town paint grants that you can provide provide the paint you provide the volunteers but the point is there's just a lot of those grants LMC had $5,000 anybody can apply for in projects there just a lot of things out there that I think we need somebody focused and maybe you know I'd like to see that one one day a week but reduce something um you can reduce it down to every other week splits the 32 half we have some representation we can still keep EA going um but to eliminates the CED of contract and not a glowing recommendation for councils and or no I think it's just we' got their sewer system we know there's going to be you want to do that we could we could try that and see how that works but I do think we need to keep we need to keep the ETA together the commission people there's excitement in the commission and just to say throw it away and comes back next year if it thing comes up for approval again and the council says no we're not going to do it anyway so I think we just lost a lot of momentum and residents when I was campaigning that was one thing they talked about they're excited about it a disservice and um somewhat disrespectful to our age friendly by not supporting them I don't I don't think I don't think that's not supporting them that that's that's you know it is an Eda to support them age friendly has their own group that there is behind it okay doesn't mean you get the gr so so that again I'm not saying anything against the age friendly was good with what they did okay so and I'm I'm behind the age friendly that's not it okay it's you got to separate the two I mean I I would I would be in favor of of cutting this because honestly my opinion I don't think we we got the bang for the buck out of this year and I I don't think we can afford to be so generous in that situation um I hear what you're saying that we don't want to lose it I can um amend my motion it's there um get this in half and do it every you know half time because by NE you know we get through next year then then maybe we elevate it again you know we might not have ground broke until late this year for any of those but I mean but they're coming I mean they are but they completely stopping I think slowing down reasonable but not completely stop let's cut that in half then 16 you want to make that adjustment on it Jon all in favor signify by saying I I right right post this one 1885 is there any more I would write down 39 1381 765 1 381 765 14 13 65 see none we'll do a Voice vote for the motion that's our total Levy at 1,432 65 roll call 4 13 265 hi hi Richards hi spring all okay that's approved have a budet thank you I next item is our number three's that item number 20 24-1 is a ordinance reming the provisions of or city code to regulate the operation of cannabis and hemp businesses temporary Canabis events and the public use of Canabis and certain hemp products opening at 9:45 anybody would like to speak to that the podium share your comments second call for public hearing for one and Final Call public caring for ordinance 20241 online 946 so item is before discussions make a motion for approval somebody want to make that I make a motion to approve um uh resolution 2024 d49 is that right no01 okay oh I was looking at you know it's template I think came out from we got David on here I talk about it oh yep uh thank you Maran Council if you want to would you like me to discuss uh ordinance 20241 yeah just kind of talk about if you want to go over it uh so as you're aware the city has delegated the registration authority to uh for the retail businesses to Olstead County so what this ordinance does is IT addresses sort of other aspects of those businesses that would remain with the city to regulate potentially which includes uh requiring permits for uh temporary cannabis events so that's the first section in this ordinance so adding those events uh to your special permit or your event section of your city code uh then includes whether or not the city would allow on-site consumption at set event the next section uh addresses some of those General Provisions uh for these businesses as we as sort of you're aware you've since you've uh delegated that authority of the county to uh register the retail businesses a lot of the enforcement uh compliance checks that'll be done by the county uh so it's left in here you know City can set oper hours of operation uh that's been written to match the County's uh requirements uh compliance with the City Zoning code which should be the next ordinance to discuss uh is in here and then um violations essentially you know if someone is operating cannabis business without registering they can be subject to a fine up to $2,000 uh so as you're probably aware the city's uh authority over these is a little bit limited by stay law and then limited further by the SE delegation of registration Authority for the retail businesses so this is a little bit more limited but IT addresses you know if there are certain violations uh by these businesses in the city and so that's under Section 118 there uh and then there's just a rewrite of the uh public use there was already an ordinance in place uh prohibiting the public use of cannabis and hemp products and so this one includes uh more definitions but is a sort of similar uh pretty comprehensive uh prohibition on on public use of these products anybody have any comments for David questions I understand that I understand that the Count's M handed the county take care of it it's a headache it's a headache the city doesn't have to deal with Y you can write it up there could be a headache that this would have to deal with so all right if there's any other comments then let's do the voice vote oh no it's just a u does it require a Voice vote just a motion yes okay was there a motion there's a motion Jim Phillips Jim Richards second no other comments all those in favor signify by saying I I right oppose approve next item is 202 24-02 an ordinance amending the provisions of or noal city code chapter 151 Planning and Zoning sections 151001 151151 15152 and 15165 relating to cannabis and H businesses in B2 B3 and M1 districts make a motion do accept the ordinance 20242 Public public hearing at 10 or excuse me 9:50 okay there's anybody would like to speak do this uh ordinates 20 24-02 please step to the podium or online if there's anybody that would like to speak second call for public hearing ordinance 20 24-02 and third and final call for ordinates 20 24-02 see none we'll close at 952 so we need a motion to approve 20242 I make a motion to approve city ordinance 20 24-02 I'll second okay um in your minutes Jason you just want to make motion to approve ordinance d01 yeah I sorry I just copied them so um any other discussion this is just basically adding language to a code that we have already in the system regarding cannabis and David can discuss this again as well sure Dave yep thank you mayor and councel so again this uh the first section of this ordinance uh adds some of the relevant uh definitions to your zoning code um and as we come down in the B2 and the B3 districts you'll see uh some of the Cannabis and the lower potency hble retail businesses as well as the lower potency hemp pedable manufacturers which are um part of that is that those those businesses that manufacture can also be retailers for the lower potency hemp Edibles uh and then temporary cannabis events are permitted within you'll see all of these businesses but I'm looking at B2 now and we'll look at B3 uh We've included the uh buffer zones that are uh the max allowed under state law of a th000 feet from a school 500 feet from a daycare Residential Treatment Facility or attraction with a public park regularly used by miners as stated here so those are uh buffers that are in state law that we've included here uh and then temporary cans events as well as I stated um that would be mirrored in so B2 and B3 you'd have the retail businesses specifically and the events uh and then under section four we've made changes to the manifesting light industrial district that's where uh this other group of cannabis businesses that aren't the direct retail businesses to Consumers so these are businesses that don't that wouldn't register with the county um but the city still needs to establish some sort of zoning controls for and so again we have the buffer zones here as as stated in state law um and pretty much all these other businesses including cultivation delivery manufacturing uh testing facilities uh wholesalers and then other manufacturers and so those would be uh in the sort of M1 District or yeah David I have a question for you uh when you talk you talked about the about it not you know with the not being within so many feet of a school now would that include like a standard regular bus stop you know because we have since we have a school here in here in town itself you know we get the the school buses stop regularly at half a dozen or dozen stops around town so I guess is that something that that the uh St law gets involved in too uh no I don't think the definition of school here would be understood to include that um you know again the city these are sort of the buffer specifically stated in in state law I think if the city put in sort of other reasonable time place and demanda restrictions it could do that but no I don't think that would be uh you know within that anticipated definition of of school there so so anything in reference to that would have to be something that the city itself put in or in their own arance right in in the zoning arance yeah I think if the city wanted to consider other sort of time place and manner restrictions uh it it could do that potentially as long as there're again uh sort of reasonable time place and Mana restrictions but uh that would apply to these businesses as the city could regulate any other business basically okay and I'm looking at that PA because it's down as B2 B3 and M1 I think most of the school pickups would be in R1 and R2 and so I think that that would give you a th000 ft it it may and may not because but I'm just saying it looks like it but I mean it's at least it would identify that part lot a lot of the some of the places done through old part of town historic district or B1 so it's not and there there's a bus stop specifically over by the Lutheran Church okay you know that's that's that fall that falls within the range that's that's kind of wondering okay any other comments um I will say we had to get this in obviously because the law is changing this is going to get once approved to WSB for them to having their work up so I'm sure it'll be talked about in the steering committee as well if there's any further recommendations that want to be it can be done at that time so that way when they present everything because this one is to do with the land use stuff it can be talked about in that group but we just need to get something going for good place to introduce thank you David for your time to work on these for us we appreciate your time and and also thanks for being with us this evening too problem thank you no other discussion all those in favor signify by saying iose approve to um petitions there's a letter from a resident in your packet your awareness regarding income property taxes Richard said a thank you to the Lions Club fire department for responders in general Christmas or what was that oh that was for the Christmas yeah for the the Christmas event at the fire hall and for out here for light trees they did an awesome job and again there were I think 380 was what I heard for participants that there were for that which is that's awesome they did an awesome job lot of good food okay next item is a regarding the payroll for Council packet is a memo from Rene rais a question to council regarding the memo reflected a $35 fee for meetings and um we had one had four interviews in one day so just for clarity they would like she would like or Jason would like to know if if each of those one-hour meetings is $35 or just those four meetings within one day is $35 the clarification is Council just needs to make the decision as to what their qualify in as a meeting um well moving forward in future years it's kind of laid out so because we're getting different stuff from different representatives and want to make sure everybody's on the same page yeah and um I know that this is is looking a little bit at me um I was here for a lot of the interviews that there were for both for the the part-time and and also um uh or City ad yeah City administrator for the rest of it so I mean all those to me if if you're here for an hour and you're doing an interview and you do multiples and you're here for the most of the day I think that that's more than just you know one meeting that's that's my thought process there is behind it if you decide differently that's that's fine okay well in order in order to Define it as a meeting doesn't it have to have an agenda well no this is for interviews it was for the this is for the interviews that I've done and for Public Works interview views and and all the stuff that I was doing with the Personnel committee and some of those are different because Jim Works Jim Richards has full-time job that he was doing so I was there for those interviews and and Jim Richards wasn't so that's why there's a difference between them yeah these are the non City administrator one yeah ultimately if you cap them at one meeting I mean I don't know that we're going to take a vote on what a meeting is called right now but there is a cap 70 meetings so even if you dropped it down to one meeting for interview you would still be right out there so go and I think to Jason's point you know if that situation comes up again we should we should know what the definition is you know which is which is fine and I'm with you on that it's an agenda it's a meeting I brought up to you Jason that Renee had me counted as present in the November regular council meeting I was not sworn in at that time um so I don't know how that stand we looked at that but I think it wasn't that your swearing in date that there is that you had for you 19 oh yeah and so I looked at that as you know hey you were here for that you know that that took you away to get you in here so I I you know you're fine Daniel was a swearing end date 22nd was a swearing dat 2019th was the regular council meeting you're part of the you're part of the group I don't just wanted to point that out that I was not I was here but I was not up here Jason put me down for zero meetings not I'm not going to take a check for it so did you sign the paperwork no I have not done want need to get that from you then down zero just keep me at zero we're good makes the budget work well makes the budget work well Jason do I have to new paperwork out I know I did when I started or or the W the W2s w4s are will have to look into that we'll just leave it it I think it's in there you yeah you got drink it's drink all right item law enforcement he go home already yeah he left the report part A increase in traffic stops 19 I've been asking for more speed enforcement through certain parts of town when the complaints I've heard from citizens so trying to get them to do a little bit more in different areas what areas you're looking at on that Jason just for my clarification a lot of them have watch out clarification yeah I have to admit that 30 m flashing thing right at the 30 m hours sign is just kind of but but I mean where is it looking at Minesota Avenue or where some Minnesota but a little bit to the east um those stop signs back there going to those riverband neighborhoods back in that way I think it's off of River Park neighborhood yeah River Park neighborhood sorry off of second there there's some stop signs along there and then I know there was some places on the west side of town as well Center Street Stu yeah yeah that's 20 you're not a lot of focus around some of the stop signs on that were brought up in those two parts of town the east and west side of town so and and thank you for putting the other one that there is up uh on Riverwood that's that's been good to kind of catch people K on that one okay uh do you have a number on how many people are going up and down there on on that I I have to look at the report I've got the data I'd just like to know what that is because it's got to be a lot that are going it's a I looked at earlier data um and it was less than 30 less than 30 average average speed oh average speed I thought you I was looking at the number of cards that there were I think people are watching that a little bit closer yeah I'd love to know the number yeah I can get I can share that with you okay that'd be great so thank you Jason for that on the traffic part I'm sure the residents aren't happy but next item is Public Works Kane if you want to come to the podum please yes sir can explain your request yeah so uh we've got snow plows we got skid steers we've got snow blowers one thing that would be handy is a salt sand spreader we don't have one of those uh something that we've been tosing around uh taking care of parking lots fire department uh the new wastewater treatment facility eight lift stations and uh the well houses I think it's something that could be spread out the entire city could benefit from it there's walking paths uh there's need for more walking paths um if there were a requests from someone throughout the daytime hey this intersection slippery or the school bus or whatever it may be we could respond rapidly I know we have Jason opman but this would just be a another tool in the toolbox for snow removal so I I know we we could have benefited from this last weekend the Ice uh we could have definitely benefited from having something larger for H spreading salt and sand mixture so something uh i' I'd like to add to our Stow removal uh equipment where you get your salt from so this we would we would just uh get salt sand from Jason opman he's got a large pile so uh he's got that on site we'd keep a track of how much we're using and uh it would be uh covered within the sanding budget so it's only a couple it's a couple yard marks anyways all two two skid loader buckets fit in it and that's about all you want to put in it and and uh you know we keep track and and uh if we need to get more sand if Jason needs to get more sand it's under contract and it's right up the road it's uh it's a pretty small investment for us we don't need to do a a sand stockpile or a hoop house or anything like that so just the sander itself we've got a truck it'll go into uh so it's uh State contract pricing through chry deel uh company that City we've purchased equipment through in the past uh they're real good uh they're a big big outfit uh uh boss that's the snow plows we use proven brand uh I like their I like their model um that's that's the one I would recommend getting is this the biggest truck to get it's a 3/4 ton we we've got one tons we've got two one tons and a 3/4 ton uh those are just they're kind of set up they're not really set up for this sander so uh it would fit in 3/4 ton 4x4 pickups so it's coming out of 2024 budget is that the yeah I would I would uh I would spend the money out of this year's null removal budget uh like I said it it this benefits water sewer Parks streets roads uh Fire Hall community center wellous this thing is a going to be utilized throughout the entire city so to put it or to to use those funds from the stor removal fund I think that captures it's a good spot for it in my opinion City properties to be C City properties yep so I think I think this will last many years and I think if we ever do decide to do our own City uh snow plowing this will be utilized in the future I mean I don't think we'd ever get rid of it so I make a motion we approve the purchase for $1,153 for an 8ot bit or bed I guess that's the difference between the two prices one's a six and a half the other one's an 8 foot yep well but works better turn radius on an Eight's got to be terrible uh yeah but eight foot pickups or eight foot beds are what you get with 3/4 and one ton pickups you don't get short boxes so eight foots the kind of the standard what we would like to see is there a second I'll second any other comments this is not going to short your your budget this is coming out of this year's snow but it's not going to short com out Jason's budget it's coming out of the snow removal budget I'm just saying you said he's got a contract yep we do and so so any of that unused money that doesn't get spent this year goes into the CIP so you're taking it out of the CIP fund is what you're saying no I'm taking out of this year's 2024 snow removal budget taking advantage of a really light year of snow and ice last winter you know I I didn't come to the council in the spring months to say hey I want to buy a sander for the upcoming year right I saved this until the end of the year to say hey we've got money left over this is a a smart purchase right I don't try not to purchase that and run myself thin through the rest of the year so that's why I'm coming to you at the end of the year any other comments then all those in favor signif I by saying I I iose thanks approve thanks K Water and Sewer several updates Paul janett is off the committee he been was with us for almost four years years no six years seven years so that'll be an open position that we'll be filling as long as as well as with Larry sto too so after the first year Larry St stepping back around yeah um how how many seats are on there Island seven seven yeah people service there's a letter there speak to the Jo it's pretty clear yeah people service has their uh report on weight water operations and then there's also a note um in the packet about uh the switch gear Eaton is the uh supplier that and they sent us a letter that said the switch gear wouldn't be delivered and November like we'd been promised and I think I've seen that that's back in the uh in the sewer water minutes it's back in the consent agenda that letter it's yeah it's with the sewer and water committee meeting minutes along with the people service report they're saying that that that will be manufactured and delivered until the end of December or early January and so given the cold winter weather conditions that likely means that the installation of that equipment will happen until um March or April you know the gauge of wire is really heavy and when it gets cold it's really difficult to work with and so um everything is functioning fine on the temporary panels that we have I would have preferred that it be installed now but you don't have any control of the manufacturing process unfortunately so we'll continue to have to struggle to deal with it but wanted the council to know the latest on that we did talk about that at the water and sewer committee as well and if you certainly have any questions I can answer those open paray any kind of to deal with that yes and we don't know if it's going to be delivered in January it could be February or March and so it would be that time to be able to put both of them in at the same time anyway right well we're certainly not saying that to eaten we want it no no no no I I understand that but I'm saying that that's the reality of what it is you know and that type of stuff so don't give them any ideas no stay on them thank you pay request is in the consent agendas and last item transfer memo yeah based on that just real quick I did put a memo in or a letter in the packet basically asking for council's approval to transfer some of the excess budget that we have on the wastewater treatment facility for const you know construction engineering transferred that to the swer collection um project that Fitz derald's working on um that project we're consuming that budget we're nearly out of budget on that and so we could use some additional budget um to finish up record plans and project close out there um obviously that piece of the P project has extended Beyond when we had planned for it and then we also did um some additional work in terms of uh the riverband Wastewater uh extension and the road repairs and you know all the additional things that we' brought forward through the change orders we haven't asked for any additional budget for that so we've consumed the budget so I'm simply asking for a transfer of $660,000 from the Wastewater budget to the sanitary sewer collection budget so we have enough to finish the project okay so what percentage of that um was up at Riverbend was it like half of that or what there is or uh probably about 20,000 okay of that part because I know we had looked at that you went from 50 to 60 because I was at the meeting when we were looking at 50 why did you go up to 60 just out of curiosity just just for a factor of safety frankly I'm hoping not to use 50 but I don't want to come back to the CK you know basically you you we we'll you only get build for the work that we expend and you know there's lots of budget there and I would just kind of trying to be conservative and cover my bases and make sure that we have enough CU you never know what's going to happen in the spring with knows what so would this also be a part of what there is on and hooking up the other panels that there are for for this money because you're you're putting that back into the the plant right wastewater treatment plant uh well we've got excess budget at the treatment facility and so we'd be moving it to the collection system project so we've got plenty of budget to deal with the inspections necessary for the electrical work yeah that's what I was kind of okay um as well as you know record plans and project Clos all those types of things that's really what we have remaining at this point I make a motion yeah please uh to do the the transfer of $60,000 I'll second it any other comments questions done all those in favor signify by saying I I approv landing and zoning hearing committee up SE yeah we've been I'll just do a real quick on that or anybody else can too Daniel was on that stuff too off of it and Paul but uh we're moving ahead uh we've had uh three meetings this last month um on going through and and just little by little picking off bits and pieces and working our way through uh what we have so I think we've got a a good stab moving ahead where next meeting is going to be sometime in in January but um it's it's moving along a pretty decent pace now but what we we've got going so you're still looking at a early spring yeah I would would say as as we but I'm just saying we've we've been moving quickly on what's been happening with those so Colleen is off the committee so there'll be an opening yeah and Kathy too and Kathy too yeah Kathy or was Wendy I think Kathy's gonna stay on she's gonna stay on it's windy I I talked to the other night I think Wendy Wendy will be he's okay because their term is the same Kathy's terms she' still have to reapply according to city ordinance okay I'm sure she'll do that so when is also going to and I think she's going to be off can I get an email confirmation at some point from that just so I know post yeah yeah yeah so we know how many openings we're looking at thank you public hearing coming up it looks like on January 21st yeah we actually had his public hearing but there wasn't enough time to get the the documents I talk with her already and let him know and he understands it'll be on the January yeah meeting uh the payroll there's only John Evans is the only person that's submitted I think I think Wendy paid for that or it's submitted too I don't know who today yesterday make the then deadline was the 10 for that so this was all we have was this one Kathy has her hand rais Kathy can you unmute yourself or do I have to unmute you I think I was able to unmute just now yep I did submit actually a a comment what happened got a comment she sounds maybe comment section I just yeah I can you hear me here yeah go ahead okay um on zoning so there was a revised payroll amount it was 3:15 was the original draft that we had received at the meeting um so there were a couple folks that did say they weren't going to accept pay for the year so with that and with the ones that were for those that were at the meeting it was $815 total which was still under the $4,050 budgeted for the year due to the timing of the zoning meeting that revised amount didn't get into your packet but has been emailed to Jason and I still had not heard back from one member of zoning yet but even if they do submit for the meetings for any 2024 meetings we would still be under the budget of 450 for the year yeah need to make sure that we get those from those people whoever is not there there's one person left that I was waiting to hear from and they were not at the meeting the other night so okay thank you y yep okay anything else sir thanks Kathy yep that's all I have all right um we need a motion for that P and Zoning pay okay fire department there an action item to purchase 15 used SCBA sets of gear from clar's at a cost of 36,000 I'll make a motion to uh accept that a second so I would I would um would use the 10% Gathering fee of the city so that would come out of that already appr Capital out budget any other comments there questions okay all those in favor signify by saying I post same sign think I'm gonna step out unless there's anything else you have for me tonight have a great Christmas chald you should be able to get McDonald's breakfast on the way home do you like do you like cheese a turnout GE request for Logan Grazy for $2,920 I make a motion to get the turnout gear for Logan Oh second that comes out of the 100- 422 200- 42005 what's in parenthesis start so that was Paul and Jim yeah Jim Jim and Paul second you still have your hand raised he doesn't know it ready okay we got it there we go remove any other comments seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I fers has the minutes Economic Development and packet was our work plan also an RFP going out and we should have a response back for January 14th I think it is Packet so um as a result of the previous budget descriptions we'll find out exactly what that number is but it's it's about 16,000 change I think but we'll get the correct number in uh to the for the response back to Ceda I make a motion we approve that which one now this is the the ca contract yeah but we don't want to have it as 32,000 no I said 16,000 we find out right number is can we T can you make a motion to table it for next month so we have time to reach out to Rebecca get all this let's do that the motion to table the contract for motion to table this till the January meeting second all in favor signify by saying I I I post it's approved Park Trail quick update and packet there the proposed leg that was going to go through or loo segment that's been taken off the table it won't be looked at I appreciate the council's support the resolutions um I'll participated in a couple public hearings and public comments so that's not going to happen so that's great news I'm just glad we caught that before they oh yeah I mean that that was great that was I'm just glad we caught that before it did come down through here yeah yeah so thank you it's been taken care of uh Jason your update with your yeah see the different vate basically these next two weeks pretty much going to be closed I've got some uh personal matters to attend to this week with a funeral on Friday and then um possible another funeral I don't know um the second one my I I'll just say my grandfather broke his hip went in had surgery isn't doing well after the surgery and is back in the hospital so I don't know what's happening with him was that back out in Seattle or no it's North Carolina oh wow so I don't know what's going that's why there's all that kind of time in there and then with just the holidays falling in the middle of the week the back and forth with the day here day there um just wasn't going to be feasible so it kind of all worked out that way if you will but I talked with Kane Kane's going to kind of help cover stuff um as well as I will have my laptop with me be able to work remotely on those days too to to still get stuff done um as we need to if anything comes up that needs to be done um so that's just kind of where we're at so our offices will be closed basically those week you'll be back before 1 of March right yeah January 2nd Carolina I'm going to come back January 2nd and uh finish out that week and then we'll kind of go from there pending what happens sorry about that praying for your grandfather Yeah so where let me ask you Ry where are they going with the line and are they going to be going all the way around or they they said what they were going to be doing they'll be discussing that starting in April 2025 either follow the go through the New Haven line number 13 or follow the cap a number 22 and 15 it goes around either side of us to the West it follows the Douglas Trail the diagonal parallel to or loal or it follows this current cap x 20 line that goes across lak um the 13 is the one that that 13 is one that follows the Douglas Trail right yeah yeah the other one was going that's that's great news think it's really great news well they still have some more work to finalize it but that'll happen this spring I guess so he um under City administrator we had an action item for on page 64 of 13 4 um this is a a motion to approve resolution 20 24-48 accepting the voting operations technology and election resources account agreement I'll talk this real quick if I me so real quick basically and this is something we've done in the past the city's done in the past is um the state provides funding to the counties to provide funding to the cities to help with the expenses related to elections Well County runs kind of run Township kind of run of our elections we don't really take on the responsibility of maintaining the machines and the technology and all that stuff so the history from my understanding is we've always just said what we get from the state the county holds on to doesn't even come to us they just use it for their their stuff um and if you go through Page 65 that shows the breakdown for Homestead counties um we would be getting $345 12 that would be used for election stuff so instead of us taking it in and holding on to it and then having to worry about paying out later again just holding the county can hold it and use it for their um as they need to for their election process when it comes to um basically anything to deal with their technology and and the voter stuff that they're doing and I did copy the email in here that I got from Amanda who is the uh and she's the election manager for the county and then Luke Turner who's their associate director that helps out um I have been talking with them their deadline was the 15th but they do know that we have our council meeting tonight and that they're okay with that you know it's not a hard deadline um so they're okay with you know waiting to hear from us tonight what we'll do and go from there but I kind of told them I was going to lean towards just letting them hold on to it say hey you guys utilize this and keep the equipment in proper working order yeah the county does all that stuff anyway what there is so I'm surprised I mean I didn't get any money from where I do my head election judge stuff it's like I'm surprised that we and this is just to help with the technology they use this isn't like election J like this is their focus for my understanding and read through here it talks about you know what what exactly they use it for but the big one is equipment Hardware software cyber security security related infrastructure um things like that you know so there's a cost that they would usually assign us for using their equipment so instead of that is this is that offset like okay we'll just kind of use this and reduce that cost of having to do any of that stuff so obviously Rochester is the big one in here they get 21,000 but even they are letting the county like they just let they Secretary of State guidelines anyway too okay well that's what that resolution is and basically if it's approved I just got to get it signed and sent over to them tomorrow make a motion to um accept resolution number 202 24-48 second any other comments thanks Jason thanks commission this is a voice vote May councilor Philips hi councelor Pendergrass hi councelor Richards hi councelor spring hi right that's approved streets and Roads first item under unfinished business was think we covered that a follow up we new business finished okay so you got that one need more quotes bring back at the January meeting or somebody will bring it back you close to Jason he going be the packet what we should do soon what you want to look for at least one additional to additional well it's tough to to get people to do that okay I mean it was it was wor to get the first one that there is so I think we'll maybe try to get one additional make sure everything's in the right ballpark next time was our new business oh a lot of different items there yeah um there's a lot of just in general there's a lot of items that um I think would be affecting the new Council coming on board in January so I would um I'd like to make a motion to table this new business until uh a later date or January meeting no I disagree with that second I disagree I think there's some things that are very important one of them is Mary Queensland for possible rehire that's important for that the other stuff that there is is things that need to just come to the to the council um and we've been paying for Sunny's unemployment and um it's one of those things that never came to the council for approval for getting her unemployment from the first part of it and uh I remember the last person that went after unemployment was Cory and Corey's uh request for unemployment was brought to the council right away um so it was like somebody uh approved that and signed that um and I'm just looking we had another payment that there was so the total amount that we paid to Sun so far is going to be $23,000 and um she's been onone for a year and a half I we were just trying to figure out who approved it who signed it is why we wanted to get into the personnel file and when that's going to come to an end um she shouldn't be up again uh right now uh getting um uh people that there are that are qualified in in this state seems to be a hot number you know so if she was good at what she did she should have been instantly hired the other part of it that too is we still haven't been able to reconcile what was paid out versus what she actually had on the books and so that's requested that yeah we just wanted to to get all that stuff done and get that close so so when I when this first came about in May councelor Richards you were the one who filled out the application for denial to the state of Minnesota for un employment and gave it back to me to submit so you both have been involved with that process since the beginning so I don't know where the confusion comes in with that and then once the St hold on please once the state of Minnesota took that in and took the consideration and then approved it it's out of our hands it's up to the state of Minnesota as to what they qualify for unemployment or not and they said nope she's available for unemployment and she can apply for it and get and it was granted by the state and there's a set amount that she can use and she's utilized the exact numbers in front of me close to everything but 500 to $600 worth of that set amount that's set by the state of Minnesota if I remember right in that meeting Jason that was all three of us yeah the three of us were in that meeting and there was the the first application that she submitted and we did not have time to react to that first one it was the second one and because we missed that first one with the time period with the 10 days it was granted without us having a chance to deny it and so that's that's what happened and we didn't see who turned around and approved that first one there nobody it's went through the state and it was filled out by you councilman Richards it's your handwriting that's on the form that was submitted to the state and I submitted it myself and they denied it they took everything in they took in the letter they took in the the the uh the reasoning for which was the the termination for um based off of the performan value submitted that as well all that was submitted to the state they reviewed that and still denied it yeah CU that that was a result of the meeting with the three of us right but we had missed that first original one because it was that day that we looked at it that it was due wasn't it it was it was the second one the second one that we did but we missed the first one the following day that's why we had to meet I myself under the impression that when when you file for unemployment if it's denied it'll be 26 weeks before you become eligible for it then after 26 weeks the state makes the determinations so I don't know like Jason saying that the state made that determination I'm I'm sure they did they P the string in that Stu well and and the way the way this happened we weren't even aware that the first one came around right and then then we were made aware on the day of that the second one came around and that was when we met with you Jason that the second one came around and we had to submit it the very next day because it evidently had been sitting here and didn't go anywhere it didn't go anywhere we weren't notified so we had to reply to it that in my office so I mean it is what it is I mean that's that's where we're at I've already contacted and called the state and talked with them nothing's going to change what's already happened and her limit is almost to the extension of to the point of where it's at she's not going to get an extension there is nothing more once it's used up it's used up so there's there's really there's nothing more that can be done on the matter have to reapply yeah I just want to make sure that that people are aware of that we did give her $23,000 additional that there is that came out of the city that went with that Unemployment uh that's that's number a um going go over B yeah so B i' I'd like to make a recommendation that we bring Mary back for a possible rehire because she does she has history with the city um she she's been here I think she could help out well yeah I mean we we turned around and uh we did the the the exit interview not to get in any further than that but we did take the time to do that um and um it it wasn't the amount of uh time that she was given to be Trust train which was I think the the main thing I think Mary has got lots of abilities to do this and can pick it up and um I make a motion to hire her back and and and bring her on right away sorry that's out of order the reason for that is our Personnel policy states uh we can do this but she would be included with all the other candidates okay but it's also in there that want to submit her name we can do that and but that's we just can't go out and hire her specifically back she has to be apply with all the other new applicants after we posted that's through our personal policy mayor if I may we're still in the middle of your motion to table this we're in discussion talk so I don't know that it's appropriate to make another motion within a motion that's a good point you know there was letters from from our attorney uh regarding several of these items that with no um preparation based on what was um shared here that they can really respond to that's why some of these issues are like that so I really think it's in the council's best interest to um delay all these new business items until uh the January agenda or the J council is in place to uh continue the discussion um and act on them appropriately at that time well I think they speak for themselves Ryland don't they attor say no how can say they can reply to them because there's no prep there's no memal nothing's in here that they give the background talked about this un teen times about stuff being put into the packet with no memal no followup and you do that too Ryland let's be clear we there's a lot of times we get here and we have stuff on the desk so you do that I mean and we have the ability to do that but I just want to be clear and I did contact Mike back and left a message to be clear on the personnel file we're not asking that the entire Council has access to their personnel file this is the Personnel committee and nor does the Personnel committee want access to anything pertaining to birth date or anything like that it is um their reviews um unemployment um you know do is there any activity in terms of writeups or any of that and the Personnel committee does have that right because that is what the Personnel committee is about we're not asking for anything beyond that it's it's be able to wait until January what what will get done from now until January on that topic so what was part of that was Sunny's file to understand to be able to do a Reconciliation of we paid her out over $10,000 yeah and if you look at the numbers I believe we had showed that the numbers she didn't even acrw that kind of vacation in less than a year's time so it was about being able to reconcile and we haven't gotten that okay and and uh and to be able to to do performance reviews the Personnel committee is supposed supposed to be part of that and it it's not happening so can this wait yeah it can you definitely can yeah I mean there there's some other things uh if I can kind of make some comments too if we're looking for the city clerk uh the item G that's that's in there um was was to take a look and not even using just scsg I went out and got another a quote from another company that there was to see if we can't find you know a city clerk and looking at one and I'm just trying to think where I put the documents here it's uh DDA so to go in and to try to find the clerk that there is that especially has got that uh the qualifications for the new computer program that we're working with and that you're not going to get it by putting that either you know in news and record which is what we have for our newspaper we're going to have to go out and search and to find somebody that there is in a city clerk position to be able to pull them and so that's something that I think that we need to take a look at scsc my comple is a one that we used also so I came up with two different ones that there were but I think that those are some of the things that we need to be looking at and moving ahead and not waiting till this meeting in the towards the end of January you get going off of that so there's some things that were on here that I thought were kind of important so my confusion here is last time we talked about Staffing you were very adamant that nothing nobody would be applying or looking for jobs through the holidays I mean those were your words right right so what's changed well nothing but I mean when it comes to January I think that we could get a chance to be able to get things started and to at least get get everything out there to see which way we want to go and not wait till the end of January you know before we have the next council meeting so that's all I was just looking for a way to move ahead uh for that to at least have that going the right direction not theid and not during the holiday and I think I think that that moving forward with a city clerk is a is a wise thing to do but I do think that we need to have a discussion of what those qualifications that we're looking for especially now that we've just combined two positions into one I think that that's something that is going to take a deeper discussion right and the reason I didn't want these moved is so we could discuss this you know what what's behind this and yeah do most of these things need to move and and come up in January they do but for discussion Purp purpos is to get it on the record that hey these things need to be looked at and the idea that uh you know mentioning Mary was I'm mentioning Mary because she has experience with us she can the if we can get her back but I do think that we have to go through the proper procedures absolutely we can't do it without going through well because she's shown interest yes she has okay I I guess I guess my question is is do we need to go through M humle can we put put an ad out to League of Minnesota cities for they throw out see they throw at us you can do that and there's no question about that that can be done um I think it's in conjunction with that that you want to be doing it but but it's going to be one of those that you know finding somebody with with news and record is going to be very slim News Record isn't going to find so and I think that it's specific of for that type of service um they were saying it's about 10,000 okay for what I got from DDA uh my compo did not respond back which is for the scsc that we worked with before but that was like 12,000 for him yeah so I mean but it's so it's looking at but it it was and again I got all the stuff that they offer great who's that so so you know it's you know I made a comment earlier about the approval for going out looking at um the different companies and I can appreciate you doing that but at the same time I think that's um had had that been approved that type of information could have been in the packet we could be talking about it now but that's no I didn't I didn't get this until today right okay you know I mean another another reason why we should the way till January again we just trying to move ahead and we have things like that Ryland you you have to I won't deny that but I'm saying in this particular case here I think a lot of them are affected by having the new Council going forward for a lot of these different things that you have here I I I give him credit for going up and looking that up because we didn't know till two weeks ago that Renee was leaving we didn't know she no who knew leav I jumped on as soon as I could though we could we could have added that to the budget I think it it still might be able to fit in there for what it's going to be whatever we pay him for that you know we put that extra 10,000 there could be part of that package because if we don't hire him for a couple months you have that extra money take a couple months or be a couple months away that's what we did with J so anyway I I just think that those are are some key things that that we we need to have I agree I agree Jim there's all things we need to do better it'd be great to have if you go and look at other city council agendas um Pine Island for example the only thing on their agendas are motions resolutions and ordinances there's no discussion points and I think we need to continue to work towards not having discussion on items that you can put into a memo and then we can have some information about it for a motion but we we you know we're in well as very long meeting here and um and we spent a lot of meal spend our Wheels a lot and I think that we just need to work towards getting to that goal of um you know the updates and I agree I had an update here I should have put that into a memo you could have seen it before that it wasn't necessary for the uh um for discussion or for any action item so and I think that's something we all need to work towards but I just feel like that there's um several items on here that could be which is well handled in January and it's we've been here four and a half hours and and um and we have a motion to to table it to the January meeting and um as a as a comment to that Ryland and and and I'm hearing what you're saying with Pine Island and these other communities they turn around they have a workshop that there is with the city council in between and during that Workshop is when they have the discussion that there is that takes place we should look at and I think that that makes a difference because then it it would be as quick as having the motions and and voting on it if you had the workshop to talk about this stuff you know so but that I just want to make a clarification of what that is so I've been looking at that too to find ways to do this because this is this is it's a long one I think that's a perfect perfect thing to bring up in January we can start from scratch and kind of brainstorm get some good ideas like this um and and maybe make some changes that get us out quicker oh yeah I think workshops is is a good thing to have without that I do think it's evolving before we had a lot of like Ry says things that go in circles but now let it's some more and and some and some other things too that there is that have have Jason downstairs a little bit more during this vacancy I think is that stuff is is important which is the D that that's in here to be able to have people that that have the office that's open and so there there's some things I thought were important in that part of it they're pretty explanatory where you don't have have to have a long memo what's the deal with the new tires in a City truck I just heard that we put new tires on a brand new truck any explanation I that that' be that' be cool okay so the tire is on the pickup so the city hasn't even gotten the bill yet for the tires I guess I guess how how do you know there's new tires on the pickup well there's just all kinds of birds that flow around aren't there around this town so so I got new tires for that pickup because the ones that come on of it are junk they're Michelin I understand they're if Michelin are good I don't think that they're junk but you know I mean how many how many miles did you have on the truck a thousand miles on it I think I think if if you went out and bought a brand new truck and they had tires on it you would you would go out and buy new ones again I seems to be the the uh the going Trend right now my father-in-law just brought a bought a brand new $90,000 GMC diesel and got it and the tires are junk and he's replacing them so they're they're Factor tires they come with they're they're they're not good tires they're not an allterrain tire so I I took it upon myself I spoke with my staff uh mentioned it to Jason hey this thing's got Junk factory tires on it we need to upgrade we got some budget left this year it it made sense to upgrade I did it on the last brand new pickup we bought uh uh didn't see any issue it was under budget and under my threshold so I mean and this is some of the stuff that we look at you know uh we we give you a budget and we approve a budget that doesn't mean 100% of everything has got to be spent on that budget you know that sometimes it's it's it's wise not to do that okay and I know that this is government and then and the way that government operates is whatever you got they going to spend and and that's not always the best way to do it because I look at at a business looking a little bit differently so so here I'll I'll throw it out there not to throw the fire department the first responder rig right brand new pickup right Yan we put brand new tires and wheels on that truck we did yep brand new right that that truck got actual brand new wheels too the actual rims I just put new rubber actual 10 ply tires on a one ton pickup it it needed it these trucks haul the skider they're heavy they need good quality tires okay I I get that uh you explained it there there's a there's a company called Public Surplus can we get somebody to open an account and put that stuff on there for sale used ones The Used Tires y uh sure we can try selling used we can put that fire truck on it too because I I mentioned it uh during one of our other meetings put the fire truck on Public Surplus but everybody seemed to think that that wasn't a possibility but they're in 50 states so it's kind of like somebody would be interested think over very fair money just think somebody should be looking into that closer the fire truck no the fire truck tires you got tires from the fire department I hope I hope there I hope we still own them be I don't know that's the first responder there that that was the first responder r i to I hate to throw away a thousand dollar of tires I don't I don't believe they're thousand tires they they're so they're they're cheap they're cheap tires they're they're not they're not good TI tires a good Michin tires it cost you 25 bucks you know four tires is what it is okay anyway my question is answered but I think somebody should open up Public Surplus that's that's actually the website would you like me to do that or would you like who would you like to do that I could look into it and see what we can do but it's called Public Surplus itself it's when you see it you can go down through it by state you can go through it by school districts you can ask what kind of equipment you're looking for you can anything from school districts cities to counties townships hey why don't you just take a look at and see if there's any cheap tires on the sale now also opportunity sometimes to to trade them in as used to who you're buying the tire from out of the gate it's just usually a question to ask as you're as you're purchasing new tires say hey you want to give me a credit you're only going to get 25 cents on the dollar at most but y they're they're not behind your shed anymore well they're not they're not can you can stay up there on this one quick yeah um the the mowing yeah I know we talked about it last time yep absolutely and this is something that I think could move to a different a later meeting but to put it on the radar I know we we mow a lot of Township property we mow some Township property south of gingo isn't the data center isn't that Township out there Third Avenue City okay y but if you can just stuff it back there ABS absolutely Jim and and and I will answer this so we did M we did mow some of that uh Western Frontage Road Minnesota Avenue A it was under construction and we needed to see what the conditions were of the uh where the pipe were put in right the weeds were six feet tall you couldn't see what Fitzgerald did whatever so we did uh good faith work with the contractors get that modowe get it knocked down so we did the other side too I agree it's a lot of mowing in the township that stretch there is so to the up the hill is that City that's also City so to the council to the pnz to everyone out there who can make a vote in this city we need to follow ordinance and we need to create ordinances that make sense right my yard your yard everyone's yard right you mow from the edge of your house to the black top right Paul I do yeah right including the RightWay right everybody do everybody should yeah everybody should so we need to enforce that everybody from Dollar General to two sisters to to the gasing go I I'm telling you if you own property in this town and it's on a right away you need to maintain that right away we need to have some sort of standard that says it needs to be maintained at a certain height and here's a certain distance and a certain trees uh you name it weeds you can't plant flowers out there right you can't plant Lil you can't plant dog Woods it's a right away right so I want clear language moving forward into the 2025 mowing season I think we could cut down on a lot of our RightWay mowing if people took care of their property and that's that's where I was going because you know thank you you needed a new Mower and we talked about you know reducing the rotation time or or extending it I should say Y and then we just tonight we talked about resources about help you know absolutely because I think your staff spends a lot of time on lawnmowers absolutely run back and forth here here's another here's another for instance Riverwood Hills Park there's no parking for Riverwood Hills Park it's essentially people's backyards have you guys seen it Jim right right I don't know how to get back there how do you get back there you don't so here's what we should do we should take that part Clan and give it to the homeowners right you got you got a trail off that one road we got a trail we'll maintain the trail we'll even spread salt in the winter time we'll plow it but what I'm saying is there's a there's a ton of mowing there that that is essentially someone's extension of their backyard right and the trails too you know do we have to mow the trails every week or could we go every other week or so you know just a cut down on that so put this on the radar yeah we we can yeah I'm going to get out of here it's been a late night no I seriously I would enjoy the conversation moving forward thanks everyone all right so I I I had a j on there okay a new business i haded j for yeah and and that one was um you know we were all over at the BFW with Hamilton yes and and that was a quum violation and and two of us were in there Ryland you came in third that made it a quorum violation and that's out in public and and it's it's just a part you know I I had and Jim we both had everything thrown at us coming up to the the the election this last year of being accused of a quorum violation and just the accusation look at all the the grief that we got that went on with a prior ccil person that did that this one was one that happened um it's if you're the third person that's coming in on something that way and it was not posted on the city it was 129 um just be aware so with that one and I I very purposely did not speak I was there as a fly on the wall as soon as the third can't be in person well then why is it different than the steer committee when I can sit in well that's it's a it's a zoom which is is different and I'm sure that they'll probably put that on the public where you know so the public can be aware of it if it was listed and and we had it on on the on our normal site that there was on 129 then there would not have been a problem with that whatsoever because it would have been listed I'm not making any more that respect that it has be posted meeting my my my issue with with calling that out as a violation is is there that that specific development impacts my property as a resident and and and you were and you were fine to be there two people can be there okay two people can be there what Jim is saying is you and Jim were there and then sounds like Ryland walk didn't speak just listen and it and it created Quorum so and so that's that's where it's it's a problem okay and and I I believe that that um I I tried to check up on that um to as a as a new council person I don't know exactly what so I I I appreciate that that um bringing that to my attention I was under the impression as long as I wasn't discussing the city business or even speaking so if you if you look and and and you watch no matter what all of us watch that very close you know even when I'll go into a fire department if it isn't you know publicized of what's going on and there's two people that are in there I'll make sure I don't go in there to create a quorum okay just because it's it's it's not the right way to do it I appreciate the education on that because again as a new as a new member that's a it wasn't you you were there you and I were both Ryland should have actually your purpose for being there H you live over on the west side was I was invited that was a part of it that mean it was it was put on by VFW was on Facebook so I wanted to go listen okay we have a motion to move this to January any other items we didn't discuss already the whole thing we can we can review again the new Council yes um councilman Phillips you brought up um exit interviews I have concerned because I was not notified of any exit interviews nor have I received copies of any exit interviews for people's Personnel files I'd like to request those for their personnel files I'm also curious as to why an exit interview was not done with Renee by the Personnel committee but the last two there was active attempt to be done with the other ones well I'm not asking for an explanation I'm just curious as to why and that can be discussed in January so I'm not asking to put you on the spot here or anything like that I just no I I had expected Renee to be here till tomorrow that's why I asked you the question I thought she was here through the 18th for email said December 13th you so I mean I and I just kind said but I mean that's ask Jason I mean that's where I I asked him when I first came in so and I'd be willing to actually absolutely well I did do an interview with her because she wanted one done and she requested be share withth councel just tonight so I'll be sending that out and and the other thing with the other ones Jason just to be very transparent they told us that you had told them that they don't need to talk with the Personnel committee and they don't need to have an exit interview we heard that from two people so I I would assume you they right say no I told them that they could or they couldn't it wasn't don't do it I told them that they have the option to do it or not do it as is the truth so yeah I'm I'm just telling you what they told us I'm not I'm not accusing I I'm just telling you and that that's why I figured you didn't want to be in it right so in follow in favor of the motion signify by saying i iose s add all that again in January yeah so we're going to move all that to January yes just review it I don't for review that's approved I'll make a motion we approve consent agenda a meeting there's there's a lot of stuff that second okay yeah there's some stuff that's I just can't go through uh and just do it as acceptance of that uh I wanted go through some things in particular um and let me go back here on page uh 115 and 134 um action item that there is on the first part of4 streets and Roads um and it was under C on page 115 okay the result of that it was 4:1 it should be 4 to zero and I course obstain so I want to make that change off of that um do we have been looking at a page 120 um on the new rates that there are for ly and Hood um do we have the 2024 uh to compare that to instead of just the 2025 no I don't have that stuff could we get that so I just we just know the difference on the increase that there is of what's going on with that um yes send me an email about it so I can Port it okay that would be great they want to have that thing care um looking at some of this other stuff that that there is um again we're looking at and we brought a couple of these things in there and I don't want to go too much in detail because it's getting to be pretty late uh the general fund budgets we can go over those but um some of those things are you can review yourself so we don't get into all that stuff um looking at uh some of the checks that there are you see the one for sunny that there is there for check number 8226 for 8,646 um check number 8228 um which is a phone upgrade for 3288 I just kind of wondered if we really needed to do that 33200 bucks for the city um looking at uh platter and and hood on what they did there was you know one for $287 on 20 or 8268 there was another one that there was for 8231 for another1 8440 just a lot of stuff going to to those guys and we try to keep that little bit down I think we can save some money going to the lawyer all the time for everything that goes along with it uh another one that there was um uh which would be 8343 which is another $1,778 again for flaty and Hood that's a lot of money in a month that we're paying to the lawyer so that was for labor and employment we just want to bring those up that there's a lot of stuff being done yeah we are way over budget 59,000 something and we yeah so I mean there's got to be a way that we can cut down on lawyers it's it's just got crazy any other comments n all those in favor of the consent agenda approval so by saying I I make a motion meeting adjourn at 11:15 second say I you second for the closing do you second for the closing did TR to late yeah good luck with everything with your funeral yeah Jason good luck for he's getting that resolution send to the county have no grass grow under tomor tomor all those checks okay what time whatever I'm going to put them in your box tonight okay I'll get them taking care of then tomorrow okay thank you for R what was the time 11:30 11:15 all right thank you everybody who's online still online thanks sleeping online I like it yeah thank you I think this is this is one for the record books one time