##VIDEO ID:0xzWyhPAbfQ## yeah we might get snow all right we are 630 here on Thursday December 11th and with that I will call to order the city of or NOCO Planning and Zoning commission meeting for this evening with that next on our agenda for the evening is roll call so I am Kathy Bryant Rucker chair commissioner Wendy Phillips we know would be absent commissioner Jim Richards here commer Jim Phillips we would be absent commissioner Scott Sorenson here commissioner Colleen fry here commissioner John Evans all right so we do have four of us here this evening so we have tum for the evening staff Bill Carlson he's there yes yes I'm here on Zoom staff Joe Palin and staff Jason Baker all right next up is approval of the agenda for this evening so we do have one public hearing he in here for this evening I know we did get at the last minute here some information on potential ordinance for cannabis and hemp and Phil have you seen the Cannabis and hemp information as well or not yet no I I have not okay we just literally received it hot off the press here today so so um but I think maybe we'll just put that under new business for now letter D but with that I don't believe anyone here has probably had a chance to read through any of the Cannabis coordinates information so I can't get out package me on so any other changes other than I did add that as letter D for new business okay with that I would ask if I could have a motion to approve the agenda make a motion second we've got first here from Scott second we've got from Jim all in favor of the agenda I that was me okay all I any opposed okay our agenda is set for the evening approval of the minutes from the prior meeting it's next on the agenda and with that sorry lots of paper here this evening yeah we do not have I just have gone through them right now so I don't think we have minutes I don't know that we have minutes from the last meeting I do know with the change in Staffing Jason had suggested that we may want to look at reappointing a secretary to do that um I know we had worked with city council previously to have staff time or even we had talked about just attempt for somebody to help with some of the zoning type stuff and had been approved previously by Council so maybe we s that back and see what council would prefer we do there yeah because Mary was the admin assistant we approved that to the hours specifically on that specifically for so as you go back to refill FTE maybe that becomes a discussion question and the other thing I know that had previously been there is um zoning administrator was part of the FTE time too so some thoughts there maybe but we we'll not approve any minutes on for this meeting we will push any of that to next month's meeting I uh say that we table them I would take that I move that we table the approval of minutes second so we've got a motion to table to next month approval of the Amendments lean and then we've got that seconded over here by Jim all in favor of tbling minutes to next month I I any oppose say sign and so we will table that to next month with that next on the agenda is our public hearing and it is scheduled for 6:35 and we are at 6:35 so with that I will open the public hearing at 6:35 p.m. this public hearing is for the lot split and VAR posted for 6:35 p.m. for 51 Minnesota Avenue South and with that I will ask if there is anyone that would like to speak for or against the application for 51 Minnesota Avenue South the lot split in variance I say so and if you want to just give us your name and address for the record all right my name is IR deic 51 Minnesota Avenue South and 30 Minnesota Avenue South uh I guess the way that I look at this I think it's a a win for the city and myself to be able to split this um I don't want to personally put a business on there but I think it's a great spot for a business somebody should do something with it and uh it has been pointed out by by Phil and Joe that uh that lot size that I'm uh requesting is similar to a lot of the historical Lots in for o Downtown B1 so you know and I built the my new building on top on the back lot and the reason I picked that was because uh the sewer and water connections got switched for that those two lots it was determined at the beginning that it was going to come along Minnesota Avenue and it was changed because of the fiber optics and the and all the rock that's in the front so that's one of the reasons that I rebuilt on the back lot where the old barn was I thought it would fit in better back there but somebody should really do something with that front lot and I guess that's that's my reasoning for doing this lot split and there is some interest in it there is uh some people that are interested in in putting a small business bu there so uh I guess I'll I'll wait for you guys to make a decision on it I just want to clarify it before I can do anything else thank you yeah can I ask a question yeah um I thought I read that there it is stubbed in for water and sewer that well my yeah my top lot is but it hasn't been ran or anything yet to the new building because of the but the bottom lot is not no sted in no it isn't I would have to have an easement or it has to get over there to that front lot that East lot and then the city would have the uh the the sewer and water uh assessment to it so yeah so I I mean for the city it's it's more income and uh it's another sewer water connection and uh tax base right for a small business and I think basically it would be rebuilding the uh basically rebuilding uh a business area that used to be there in the early 1900s so you know and uh the lot size that's what they were back then and I I don't think it's setting any precedence for any other uh Zone because this is this is determined to be B1 historical and so all the other Lots would be the same they would be able to do the same thing you know I just think that I was just the vision of Orin o is seems to be small businesses along Minnesota Avenue downtown y so yeah I was just wondering about potential to connect to Water and Sewer yeah I I think it would be uh it would fit in with with the Aesthetics of of the historical district and you know like the the old birds door could be remodeled somebody could do something with that and just go right you know lot the lot I mean it could be brought back to somewhat what it was thank you yeah thank you any other you just state your name and address 105 Avenue uh I want to speak in favor of her's request I I think just put up a lot of baloney over the last year so try just trying to get just trying to get his building put up you know it's not necessarily here that he seems to be attracting a lot of friction but uh I see in some of the uh in in the in the book here the packet for tonight there's a little discussion about the Shoreland orament somehow impacting the Shoreland orament and that Shoreland ordinance the original intention of that was is for issues of sewer SE septics individual septics too close to the river I think where he's at with a park in between the parking lot down below and wall and the trees trees up above it I guess I don't really see how that how he's really be impacted in the sh landard uh my biggest one of my biggest concerns about that ordinance is it wasn't an issue when you put a building on the top side was never was never brought to anybody's attention now it's but now it's come to the attention because it's wanting to split the Lin I understand it's a smaller lot than the normal when originally planted down town it was all set up with smaller lot structure and the only probably I'm guessing the only reason ever bu to start with is the same person knowing both lots and the county just kind of draws a line between them and makes one lot out of them over the years they did a lot of things with that type of stuff at the county level I just think it should be done without any conditional use permanent split it it be a done deal thank you thank you is there any excuse me is there anyone else that would like to speak for or against the application state your name and I'm 25 minutes so I have I have the building right next to her I just have some questions so I don't want to see her spend money and try to spell lot and do things um that don't work state statute says uh sewer and water has to run on public easement a state statute so to bring water or sewer down to that bottom lot you'll have to dig the road come all the way around the corner however you do it just got to be on public easement it can't be on private easement and uh that's State Statute you're saying the the water and sewer has to be the water and sewer so if they bring water and sewer down to that lot her just told me tonight the santech says something and I dealt with another individual in another town the santech and they try to come across her private property and get her to sign off and do all that and I uh wrote a thing and went to the state statute showed him the state statute to the city council that they ended up going down and digging the road up and spending the money to take the sewer on down the road where it belongs um so that's a a thing um I see no picture of uh the smaller lot how you divided in other words he's been off the road how big of a building you could put on that with the uh there got no drawings or anything I'll say okay why don't you split that lot up what side of the building could you put on there with the green space and how are they going to come in and off the road there's only one way they can come off is off the First Avenue into that property and you have easement setbacks so I don't want her to go out I it's proba I'm not trying to stop and do anything else but I want everything to be aware that when you go from the road set back from where the road is we're back the wall back is that far back off that property and then you come in from the side there's a set back from the side where the property line is um it makes that the Lots were laid out parallel to the road not this way and so when you divide it this way it makes a difference and I don't want to see IR go to all the trouble of spending the money to go to the county and split the lot and do everything he needs to do is bend it and find out that you can't get sewer water can't everything else you spent all this money for nothing I I have no problem with what he's trying to do but I just want to be more clarified that does the city know that you have to statute that you would have to run that continue that sewer down around the corner and the hookup has to be either from the street side from Minnesota Avenue or First Avenue they can't run across private property good to note your comments on that yeah I am not aware one way or the other on that stat I just I'm I'm just letting everybody know that to you got to look at because I don't want someone to buy the lot and say no I want to continue the sewer line from where it is up up top of the hill and they say well you can't do that and they bought a piece of property or splits a piece of property and the water and the sewer can't cross it yeah that I I would have to check with Stant Tech and so thank you for that you know to do that and like I said I got no picture of to see what kind of a just how but what kind of a building you could with a setback what kind of a building you could put on that property and still have your um percentage like they made me do you had green space they when I put mine they were very strict on that I had to have all the green space for my building or my building would have been bigger than everything else and and stuff so I I have no ill will towards Earth doing this or anything else but I just want to bring that all forward is is the access and just what could you put on that piece of property as far as a business and parking I have a question for you Jan speaking of that is there water and sewer on what is that behind what gra it was pled First Street when I bought it first all first first street is and they tell me it's not and I go back and I take a look at a picture back there back in the 1800s and the road's there so how the road isn't they say it's not a road is beyond is beyond me I as a kid I've always seen the road but anyway but water and sewer is on that water and sewer right on right on our property line water to his building for his building up there but how you get it to the bottom lot is a whole another story and I think you said her to me that the reason they put the water up there because they wanted a loop system wow because the dead ends the sewer in the water dead ends up at us and so the question is how are you going to pump that sewer up the hill in the lower lot lift station probably well I mean you got that I'm just saying yeah well but then again it has to come across private property and easements and everything else when you sell I'm just telling the statute says it has to be on public easement that way no one ever has any trouble whatever that well I'm cutting your sewer off you can't dig the sewer up you can't dig the water line up because it is on public easement and they have the right to go in there with their back hole and dig stuff up and that's why every all the cities have their stuff in public easement but I I will tell you Jan just as a point of reference I know up on West Center there's utilities that run from West Center down to first through people's property well again you again if people don't there this gal down in uh Lanesboro whatever the little town pass at it was my neighbor's uh uh sister and they were coming and santech was part of that problem and they said that we're going to come and we're going to dig up your property we're going to do this we're going to do that and because their line is plugged and we're going to dig your property up and you're going to let us do that I said no you they don't have to let you do that it was run wrong they end up going and digging the street up and putting in the sewer line in its proper place so that you would never have that issue someone saying well you can't dig my property because your sewer line runs across my my so if they did something that way and someone has an issue later on good luck but I just I'm just telling you what state statute says appreciate appreciate it is there anyone else that would like to speak for against IR yes well I was at one of the other meetings last month about uh the property on uh West Center that being split and it in that meeting it was the city has the uh RightWay on all sides of the property for utilities so uh this don't they don't that's that's what was suggested that 10 foot right away yeah there's a 10 foot right away first up to West and as they do future developments that my understanding is that's common practice as you put in new developments that you have these easements but on older land that was has more historic background you don't necessarily have those already built into the deep right and uh according to what my research with the the surrounding communities are there is no restrictions on setbacks or easements or rways and the towns that are around us but this has has never been put in place here in or ok but uh the way I'm seeing this this is something that is to be determined this has really nothing to do with the lot split this has to do with the person who buys the property how they're going to go about developing yeah that's so you know that's to be determined how the water and sewer can be hooked up yeah you know so I that's the only point I really wanted to make about that thank you thanks I know we've heard from three folks so far I know we've got just a couple more want to make sure if either of you in the room here have any comments you want to make for against the application is there anyone and I'll just say I do have to say this a couple times here just is there anyone present who would like to speak for or against the application make another comment Cy we are talking about the lot split lot split you know and I understand Jan's concerns about setbacks and stuff like that and it is it is B1 I'm not so certain when or noo changed it but generally in a b in a B1 setting is what they call zero lot lines that's that's where you have the uh the older buildings along Minnesota Avenue they're right out at the L it wouldn't it wouldn't be unusual for for Herb's property to be right at the lot line there's plenty of street parking for whatever would be there so as far as setbacks go it's not like a you know in we have we have also have setbacks for corners and stuffff we're talking about that already exist in our Corner setbacks and sard stuff like that but think we need to consider to keep that the historic district we have to keep it historic or get or get rid of the historic designation thank you so I believe I'll just say one more is there anyone who has not spoken yet who would like to speak for think again is that when I built my property what you just said that there was no setbacks they made me set on the North side back off the property line there were setbacks put in place when I built mine back in 2012 and from from doing that so I just to say there are there are setbacks there were setbacks because I had to bring my drawing plan in and they had to plan with the setbacks and where I could place my building and how I could place my building and there are setbacks and that is so if the lot does get split whatever whoever would be the future owner would have to follow the ordinance as it I just I was just hearing that there's no zero setbacks and that and that's why the problem in or noal that when they step out of the VFW they're in the road right away yep and the buildings when they step out and that's got to change you can't continue you can't continue going down that path 1900 with the lot just to clarify anything and if it if it is to split or not split setbacks if there are any on the books still have to be followed so that not a change in what we have today but with that I know we have said more than three times now if there is anyone here present that would like to speak for against the application and we have heard from three of the five people so far and with that I will close the public hearing at this time note 6:55 as we have no more individuals at this time to speak with that fill do have a staff report to go along with this here yes uh Madame chair and Commissioners uh my report with today's date December 12th uh outlines the request as as youve noted it's a lot split in variances um and the issues have been discussed by those who who've spoken already but let me just summarize it the lot split is relatively simple uh they want to put a create two lots out of one lot uh with the variances come in because the current minimum lot size is 20,000 Square ft in the city and each of these would be uh something over 8,000 square ft but as was pointed out these two New Lots would be very similar or even larger than many of the Lots in the immediate vicinity in this block and the next block downtown that is the character and the pattern in downtown Oronoco is the small Lots but what also comes into play is the Shoreland district and that Shoreland District was put in place back in the 80s uh and every city in the state that has a lake or a river has a similar Shoreland code that uh applies and sets larger lot sizes and uh uh setbacks uh on it and uh there are several reasons uh for it uh one had to do with septic systems but another had to do just with the visuals and it's it was kind of developed for the uh uh you know the tourist area lakes uh in northern Minnesota they didn't want to see lots and lots of cabins around the lake they wanted to try and limit that uh somewhat uh as well as put the setbacks to have those cabins well back from the lake well that same model or ordinance applies in every place whether it's uh uh in the woods in northern Minnesota or whether it's in a a city like Oronoco so it it does apply uh here and we have to to follow it and uh with a request like this uh then variances are requested both to the lot size uh uh and to the lot width uh there the setbacks don't come into play uh here uh because we're well back from the water line itself uh so the setback from the water line really doesn't come into play but it is the lot size and uh the lot width uh as was pointed out there's no building that's being proposed right now no use so we don't really need to worry about the setbacks uh uh at this point it's just creating this new lot line but if and when a building is proposed then those setbacks would be analyzed and that would be uh brought in uh in into the discussion um there's discussion of the uh sewer and water and uh if this lot is to be served and it would need to be served uh since it's potentially available and uh in the conditions that we put on this the second condition is that there be variances in place reviewed and approved by the city engineer uh that would serve that second lot the lower lot on Minnesota Avenue so they would conform to City standards and to State Statute as to what is necessary uh to get that uh we don't we haven't seen exactly where that easement would be or how wide it would be or exactly how the sewer and water would get to that lot uh that would be for a later determination but it would be very important that Irv have those easements drawn up and put in place before he sells the lot to another person uh because then that person would be left holding the bag if there were not uh the proper easements in place so we would work with Irv and make sure that those easements do get prepared and recorded on the land uh as I said they would follow City standards and state statute to make sure that it's uh that it's done right uh so uh the request is to approve the lot split uh and the variances uh uh and uh there are conditions uh that we're suggesting here uh one that it's the lot split is approved only if the lot size and lot with variances are also approved and second that the parcel B that's the lower lot of Minnesota Avenue can only be built on if it's served by Municipal sewer and water with appropriate easements and uh uh that are reviewed and approved by the city engineer and uh filed uh and then also the Shoreland permit uh Shoreland ordinance says that commercial uses within the Shoreland District uh are by conditional use permits so uh that proposal if somebody wants to build there uh and put a commercial use in then they would need to also apply for a conditional use permit with the city again that's not standard City Zoning that is the Shoreland ordinance uh that requires that um so that is our recommendation to approve it with those three conditions there are also 11 findings of fact um because variances are permission to break the rules to go against the rules the city is not obliged to Grant variant aners they may if they want to uh but if the planning zoning commission feels they do not want to recommend approval of the uh variances then uh the commission should come up with findings that would address uh the the standards that are in the code and we quote the code in the report uh so with that the the request is fairly simple but there's a a few complicating factors that do come into play here uh that are noted in the condition and in the finding so with that I'd be happy to answer any questions for the commission so Phil the question I have the the shoreline district is that a state thing or is that a city it is it is in the city ordinance so an ordinance that that the city needs to follow but it was an ordinance that the state developed like I say 40 some years ago and uh the legislature required that it be put in place place by each City that way the DNR isn't enforcing the ordinance in you know 10,000 cities around the state but each city is uh responsible for adopting and enforcing this this ordinance in their city so it's a city ordinance the city has the Shoreland uh uh overlay District uh you see any uh any problems with somebody putting a small business on that corner lot because of the shorel land no no if if uh if you uh uh approve this uh lot split with the variances to lot size and lot width then uh there shouldn't be a problem uh as long as it's you know something uh kind of typical again they would have to come in for a condition use permit so uh the the commission and the city council could put reasonable conditions on that uh use but no there there shouldn't be anything unusual that would prevent uh a typical building from being built on that lot so one another question I have Phil is the Shoreland District I don't remember that being an issue when the original building was or when Irv built that building that's on there now uh you're right that that was not addressed when that building was there it was a replacement of an existing building so he already had a building uh on that lot okay whereas this would be a new building on a new lot if it's built on go so we have two things here one is our lot split the other one would be variance to lot size and the reason we're doing variance to lot size is because we're still sitting at 20,000 square feet because it was written back when we had no sewer and you had to dig a well you had to put in a septic system is that correct Phil so now yes some of the numbers that we've I've heard thrown around some of the other towns you know 6,000 8,000 we're at 20,000 so if you were to split 20 you're sitting at a 10 and 10 or even an eight and eight or whatever it might be I think I had written down here each would have been over 8,000 square feet if it splits into two right is more in it is a reasonable size for City lot commercial lot that has water and sewer yes very very much so and we're working on our new zoning and that's one of the things we're looking at is 20,000 since we have water and sewer would be a small much smaller number than it is today and just making sure I'm following along that that if we were already sitting at a smaller lot size all we would be here for is a lot split we would not be here for that 20,000 number right is that correct yeah well you you you would still be dealing with it because that 20,000 number is also in the Shoreland District yeah come from two directions yeah but well that's something we're we're working on tackling now but as of today we're still sitting at city code written assuming nobody has access to City Water and Sewer for lot sizes right but just just so we're clear and this may be a fine point the city's zoning District the B1 District as all other zoning districts has a 20,000 sqt lot size minimum the Shoreland District which was imposed on the city by the state uh that has a 20,000 square foot uh lot size minimum that the Shoreland District can't be changed without approval from the DNR commissioner your other City Zoning outside the Shoreland District you can change it that's the city's responsibility the Shoreland District needs approval from the DNR good to know and so are there other cities in the state that have Shoreland districts there are thousands and thousands of them yes every every city with a lake and a them are sitting at 20,000 they are all yes all all of those are based on the same model ordinance that the DNR put out in the 1980s and they're all at 20,000 Square ft and so in those other towns as in this one two have a lot split that's where the variance piece comes in it's not it's that Shoreland piece but our ordinance does allow for us to do that yes yes you have the authority as the local uh municipality to vary from the ordinance even though it was an ordinance that was given to the city by the DNR uh the authority to act on it and to Grant variances to it is uh is the do rest with this body right so the state directs us to use 20,000 but it gives us the ability still to say it doesn't always fit right okay discussion I'm up here I mean we have a couple options and with the lot split and the variance I don't I'd have to double check do we need to do this as two separate motions no it it could be one motion uh to approve the lot split with the variances because they're they're tied together you're really yeah they're really tied together one without the other yeah okay any want Phil's explanation in what he'd written and now is good yeah y makes sense to me yep so one is we can approve or deny the lot split and approve or deny the variance in any combination of those so I move that we approve the uh lot split uh with the variance um and the conditions find them right now there were three on the bottom of page five out of eight I think it was um bottom of page five of eight of the conditions as uh um propos in the report from our planning about that how about we just say that so I have from Colleen here a motion to approve the lot split and approve the variances at with the additional conditions as written in staff report and looking at page 5 of8 on the bottom the condition for approval of lot split in variances and I'll just read these three quick so everybody's got them one the first condition would be the lot split is only approved if the variances to lot size and lot width are also approved by the city two parcel B may only be built on it if it is served by Municipal sewer and water with appropriate easements for provision of said utilities with plans and easements reviewed and approved by the city engineer and ments properly filed with Olstead County and the last was condition three parcel B may only be built on if a conditional use permit is applied for and approved by the city as required by the Shoreland ordinance is that correct yep okay is there a second second we've got a second any more discussion I will call the vote then all in approval of the motion that's been proposed and seconded say I I any opposed so what this is is a recommendation for approval of both the lot split and the variances Associated here this will go to city council with the recommendation that we have approved it and so they will vote at the next yes and Madam chair and Commissioners I talked with Jason Baker this afternoon and this will go to the January council meeting uh there isn't time to turn this around by tomorrow noon to get it on next week's city council agenda so it will go to the following meeting in January thank you Phil Phil uh do I work with with you or uh or band or whatever for the easement art of this well that would be something uh that you would talk with your surveyor and uh actually let's let's uh get an email and call with Joe Palin the city engineer and you and your surveyor and we'll we'll get this figured out yes right is uh Joe did draw up a sketch of that easy okay okay good yeah he he had an aerial photo where he had it in and I handed it in to the office here so somebody has that drawing great okay think it was in the packet all right all right thank you thank you thank you thank you next on the agenda for the evening under new business we have Mary Nash shed discussion Mary would like to discuss having an accessory building on her property without a primary structure are you Mary okay I'm Mary Nash and they had complaints the city did and they said I had to come before the planning it's only here I had last year been served a warrant to tear down the buildings and house and stuff on property well last year took an addition off the property sealed it up well they weren't happy I said well I got to recoup some money because I'm on a fixed income and so then I got some money and I said okay I'll abide by the rules and you know you got to give me time they served a warrant on me to go in the house which I complied by go in I said I ain't got a lot of money right now but I'll get it done okay well they never issued the permit which was applied for by my construction thing to tear the stuff down well I had them there well I can't they come Jason Baker and Randy Bolam come there and they were just kind of mean to me they said they'd give me time to get my stuff out of the house you know what they gave me they were there the next day and nailed a thing on the wall of the building they never gave me time to get my personal stuff out of there I've lived there since 1976 so my personal stuff just got all destroyed and I'm in the process right now of but they applied I applied my contractor applied for to have the building permit the building is a 14 by 20 and it's put on skins and it's fasten down and Randy bam said it's got to be fasten it's fastened out well it all started first with a fence in the back I fixed the fence I mean this is just ongoing and ongoing and ongoing I'm compliant with the stuff I have to have a shed to put the lawnmower and stuff in and pick up the stuff well they never issued the permit to the Builder and they said no it's got to go before the Planning and Zoning to vote on it well I mean they're just not working with me and I lost all my personal blogging sty because they serve the warrant and this and that and they won't give me the permit did for the building Did anyone say why they wouldn't give they just oh you got to go before the city and I went before the city and I went before the uh they said you got to go Randy B said go before the planning and only and let them B on it I was willing to pay them for the permit and everything and then they said no we won't this and that I'm not familiar with any of this yeah I I would say until I saw this I am I am but I I don't understand so just so I'm clear yes you applied for a permit my contractor that t yes okay applied for a permit for the new building okay and it got turned down and but they didn't give you an exp explanation why it was turned down no well they said it had to be like un skid it was on skid and it was fastened out they I think they said it was a little bit over a little bit over the limit of the building or size of the building it's a 14 by 20 is this something that we could refer to city council and you have chance to look up whatever needs to be looked up for your next meeting or have the city poll whatever copy it is you guys should be able to get do you think it's the same thing that we had with Irv technically Irv I rebuild the barn because you're not allowed to have an accessory Building without primary use building on there and Herb was Grand bed in because of the fire fire right so I think I don't know we're just speculating what so I think it would have to be pull to find out what the answer is excuse me there was there was three buildings and a house there and they app applied for it and said no well I went through and spent all this money and that in a place to put my stuff and then they said you know well it's got to be fastened down that it's got to be on skids and it is so it was a building that was moved in is what you're saying no it was buil built there it was built on site and they yeah they first they said you don't need a permit then all of a sudden they come back and said you do then you got to have existing building well I did they the down then they tore the house down by the time they got back have to look back in the minutes and I lost all my stuff because they were fooling around I'd have to look back in the minutes Baker and Randy both them come the right next day and put a sign on the thing condemn no entry to the building and same way they did with the house and all that no condem they were back and forth and they could have stopped and talked to me but they won't but I will say I know they tried to contact you I I'm I'm a council member yeah and I know they did try contact you and were not successful so they had to move beyond that um I I know there's history there and I know that I contacted Jason Baker and he want to answer his phone I contacted Randy Bolam he wanted to answer did they did you leave a message or anything and they they did not get back tried this one Jason Baker was on his honeymon let me do this I I'll take this I'll talk with with Jason because I I want to understand why it was it was denied and and if we talked about it at Council like I have to go back in the minutes so I remembered or look in at the video um but I'll get let me get some more information and we can have Jason bring it to councel do you remember anything Paul do you remember any of the details on the permit because I cuz originally the there wasn't a permit and the building started to be built correct or am I wrong I'd have to look I can't answer I think you got to go back and check yeah let me go back and the build said you didn't need one and then it was going in the works and stuff and then it was on skids and that and then it went Way Beyond the time there and I'm sure that I won't swear but I'm positive that they applied for the permit and it was turned up yeah if because I said i' with the council I said I'd you know apply by the rules and do the stuff and then I got H let let me let me look into it um the the council can address it you there's not enough time to put it on this agenda I would say it would have to be on the January agenda if you would like the council to address it and give you information to answer your questions so you understand why it was turned down um I and and I I do I do remember some of the details and I think it was it was timing of when it was being built and and the building permit but I we don't we don't have to Hash it here let me get some details okay and it sounds so you deserve some answers and and we'll get them for you okay I deserve to have a building to have my stuff in it storage shed they have my stuff in it so it ain't scattered all over outside they made me tear the other ones down so I deserve a building and that was a purpose and it looks nice okay i' I've got some notes here I'll I'll talk with Jason and get with uh Randy and we'll get more information yeah I just in talked with Jason here the other day and he said he said take it before the planning is holding on December 12th I said okay I'll be there yeah we have no access to anything that has happened and we don't know why if something why it was that's all we knew you really yeah because planning zoning can't dig into it unless it's there's an application yeah unless is submitted to us and there's nothing in our packet so no but we appreciate you bringing it up to our attention so that we can do some more research on that sent Jason a recommendation to add it to the council meeting in January to just needs to be discussed or yeah something needs to be yeah resolved somehow yep deserve answers it sure does sound a lot like M like you said that and it took nine months for me to do something yeah these are exceptional circumstances too and and just listening it just looks to me like all she needed to do was get the because it was only 4et bigger than 200 square feet minimum so we need to get some more all she needed was a variance then $250 right y so that's something they're going to take a look at so I've got two things y we'll we'll have two things that we end up throwing to the January meeting there for Council yep well we appreciate that we do have next on the agenda under new business was building permit report yes miss toor you yeah you don't you can leave anytime you want or you can you can stay if you want to yeah you can stay or you can you can leave it it's completely your call he's physically and it's terrible J has a stroke and lost her house and now they want to take you know screw their on shatter yeah unfortunately where we are and what we do in that situation we I because it's going to have to be talked over with the council the Builder that was going to tear the house and buildings down was building the shed too so they said said well maybe the house got tore down before the shed got started well it was kind of a yeah they're working on the you know so now they're going back with some pictures saying the house was tore down first well that's kind of you know yeah that was still there when that shed went up I know that and that's something yeah I don't we don't have answers for you tonight we don't have any access to anything that was discussed or what was done or anything this I've never heard of it before until tonight yeah yeah the council has to it has to be brought I to build a great big shed [Music] well I need a shed to put the stuff in I mean they're screwing with me thank you guys you for br us so that we know we'll get you some answers appreciate it have a good Christmas you too you too thank you next up is building permit report you got it there well way it is in the back and I can't I'm not even turn it oh yeah yeah you gota turn your computer oh side and then it turns on yep yeah okay mine too uh with that new construction Place install renovate or replace install so those are all building or building permits and the rest were all Plumbing permits and a lot of the plumbing it looks like is excavation water hookups with some of the sewer stuff going on any questions at this point Jason's not here so I I don't have specifics on them the bottom one's me bottom one's you yep all right next we have City administrator memos I'll get back to that section there there's the first memo talked about vacant seats bylaws and agendas and minutes and with that do our current Staffing shortage we're back to this discussion of minutes that we you know alluded to earlier with during the agenda when we were talking about minutes about having and we did get City staff some FTE approved for that previously if we want to request that Council are they going to reallocate or what they're going to do with the hiring yeah they're going to have to because it was approved yeah so whether we get attempt service to do it in the in I think that would be an option as I know the city has hired a temp service to do city council Ms oh yeah well and that was one of the things Rene and that was one of the things we had talked about at this very beginning too is Camp service and the percentage of FTE yeah even back when Sunny was here what percentage FTE is for zoning support right so so right now we've got three things and that we' refer to council is the lot split and variance approval the Mary Nash shed questions and then um the zoning support for you know temp services or we've already had FTE allocated that was to cover that so and then we are also supposed to Post open seats for various City boards and commission Jason did say we are already behind in this matter and he ask that the chair secretary provide a list of open seats so that we may post them online and accept applications for those positions so I do believe clean my seat and your seat would be the next two that would open up so a general notice of upcoming open seats for all advisory boards shall be posted at City Hall so we will ask City Hall to post all that so how many do we have so we have two Colleen Colleen me as a council member and that will be that'll be reappointed that's right y That's and then mine for Planning and Zoning you guys are almost done with yours uh tonight is our official last me meaning of our terms unless we decide to reup or reapply don't go anywhere I yeah I it's just too many Conflict for me I'm I'm Ste it's a lot of work yeah it's a lot of reading yeah it's a lot of reading me you put a lot into it I do I do do a lot of reading and a lot of researching and yeah you we above and beyond you guys yeah you do a ton I would not wanted so but with that so that was the first memo is with that are you saying that this is your last one I mean you're not saying that right it's my last official one in this term um I'm assuming I think I would reup because I would like to see us see it through the implementation and the new code I'd like to see us up and running and make sure once that's up and running you know what's the future of the support going to be like because I have seen two couple different models actually once the new code is up and running especially for small towns and townships one is do G you have City staff that has certifications in zoning can do the support can do answering those questions as people walk in and want to apply for a permit like we saw tonight you know understand it and one of the things this new code hopefully will do is make it much more clear and easier to administer but it's still complex enough that people get actual college degrees in zoning yeah and so with that I mean we're a citizen Advisory Group we are none of us expected to have full-on degrees in Planning and Zoning but our city support staff should have some expertise if not degrees certainly training provided by Le of Minnesota cities and they are going to workshops now whether they're doing when they go to their workshops are they specializing in zoning or budgeting or what they're doing but one model is you have somebody on staff that answers it another model is just like we have some of our engineering and support Outsource today another model is is you take even that Frontline interaction and you can Outsource that piece so you might have if it's one of these 10 top 10 things that people come to the city for here's your packet of information and you it all to our zoning administrator and they would be the first call for those questions and they would also support our city staff as the first call for their zoning questions I mean so that's one model and one thing we could do is with this code we can also create an RFP to look at our zoning support because that's probably a discussion that we need from Council and some direction are we looking at a model where we're going to have somebody on staff that understands and can support zoning and answer those questions or do they see the future more being one where if we develop this RFP to support that do they see a model more where we want to have some of that first line support outsourced as well because that might help us with the hiring decisions as well right and I think all these need to be considered in decisions to be made to definitely so so you're not are you I'm not no you're tapping out I I you know when I don't get home until 6:15 from work and then so tonight is your last meeting then oh mine too what yeah we're not going to have enough people to even well well we'll have they'll they'll have the council seats filled by the next meeting yep because there will be new council members in January okay but neither of you two are going to be here anymore for Planning and Zoning is that what you're saying I would probably show I'll they can still show up and sit in the audience sit in the audience or he could apply for one of the positions I'm talking Planning and Zoning here yeah I can app he's off a council he'd no longer be you're Council ones are filled yeah the council ones are filled by counil prior to council I was on Planning and Zoning okay oh oh jeez I have to check two two years three years okay I wasn't aware that you were here just through C oh yeah okay he is here as a council rep and Jim is other is here as council rep okay and will stay on yep and we'll have one of the another council rep that will sit on next month's I shouldn't say Jim St when is my turn up I don't have that information two year I think uh next year because Wendy was last year Year we're all on threeyear appointments oh it's three how three three year appointments Oh I thought sun and you were reappointed the year before Wendy right since Wendy was the only one up I don't remember at all I just it's been a really long time I don't even know how long it's been seems like a lifetime doesn't it yeah I think we'd have to go back through and figure that out so by the nexted it yeah yeah I remember discussing it yeah yeah I just remember when we only had you know like what five people for a little while and meetings were getting cancelled yeah you know right and left you don't have enough for Quorum like tonight yeah and that's why we expanded we have enough uh we had a lot of interest with the uh I think development could definitely be step up I think you might have people stepping off that want to yeah I think it's a good thing I I do too and we had a lot of people with input so I appreciate that but yes so I would say that we hold off on putting anybody in as a secretary right now and I would certainly say we ask Council for what we should be doing specifically there but and also ask Council then to make those postings so this would be the first year they were doing that too because they we didn't do that last year I don't think they've ever done that well posted done the posting I think they put something on the website at the end of yeah I don't think weever I don't think we've ever posted except when not in all the years yeah not years I remember yeah except I know when I started I was just here to get something done at my property and then andit you like hey yeah do this okay and talk unless you sign up for the next three years that's why I did too because I came so I was buying more property okay and I got interested yeah I'm like okay so yeah I think we'll ask the city to follow what they said that should be done according to ordinance and to Jason on that one all right cannabis we did get some ordinances there some sample Council needs to it sounds like take some action on that before this came after the fact yeah yeah and I think we leave this for next one and not even have to discuss it right we have a draft copy it said so the memo says just so everybody has it Madam chair and Commissioners at this time the city Administration is working with the city attorneys to draft ordinances specific to cannabis management within the city of oroo these ordinances are being drafted to help the city regulate the location of any potential future businesses that may sell VAR types of cannabis or hemp related products as is allowed by Minnesota state law it was discussed at the November city council meeting and will presented be presented to City Council in a public hearing at the December meeting so you guys should be having they're going to have a public hearing so Planning and Zoning since part of this is a zoning ordinance a lot of times we will have public hearings here but it wasn't available in time to post so it is going to be at the city council meeting says my intention was to have a draft copy to you in the packet for your review however at the time of writing this the ordinance is still being drafted a note this was written on December 5th U my hope is to have a copy early next week that our office can email out to you or at the very least have ready to be provided at the meeting du the due to the laws changing at the beginning of 2025 there is a time constraint and it is important to have these ordinances before Council this month I will be also be providing a copy of the ordinances to WSB staff to have for review if there are amendments that wish to if there are amendments that wish to be made later throughout the WSB process that can be done at that time with all other zoning ordinances thank you for your understanding on this matter and appreciate all of your hard workor throughout the year have a wonderful holiday season so that was from Jason so they did come up with the draft there is public hearing for city council we won't be having a public hearing on the Cannabis but with that they have that one in their packet for them to enjoy so the WSB is our company we're working with to rewrite code and I do know that they were aware of this as well so that did come up they are aware to make sure that does get worked in and they said there're are number of cities that are all working on ordinances this month so that's cannabis nothing for us to actually take action on the WSB project update so we have had the steering committee meeting I've requested when we have those that Al the steering committee meetings get put on the public City's public calendar I know one of the most recent ones did get put out there but I know there have been a couple others and I don't know if possibly because of staffing issues that only the city staff in the office to have I think I have the ability to post to the website yeah I think so so I think that's what it is so I know I'm not able to post those out there I've because we were told legally yeah I have requested via email previously that they all get posted out there but I just know the one for today did get posted but I don't think the one earlier this week and I don't see the one out there for next weekend either so so I will email on that one that's anything else to add on the WSB project anything on monthly incoming zoning apps and questions we don't have Jason here to tell us what may have come into the city I would just like to add thank you Cen for all of your work and trudging through on all of this big stuff I appreciate it and I appreciate differences of opinions and everything else because I prefer to have discussions out there so just know that I've appreciated that yes thank you for your service Colleen yes sad to see you go yes yeah I just have too I get it if you're working till 6:15 and then to try and make it by 6:30 yeah it just gets busy but thank you but you can you know still zoom in and join us from time to time zoom in and be my Pam there you go now all right uh I move we adjourn I well write that down clean give that a big old second that we adjourn and we've got a second here thank you all in favor I I any opposed we're good thank you much I see I didn't ever notice there's somebody out there in a waiting that's us The Parkers oh Parkers boy yeah at me [Music] sure this must to