e e e e e e e e e e e e e testing e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Hi how are you we ready Julie not good afternoon and welcome to the work session of the LPA this time i' like everyone to at least silence their cell phones and have a roll call please yes person tonight we have uh DAV Lopez Bruce Kavanaugh David ever Brian Smith Katherine Katherine hunt absent is Lisa Ramsey and David poock is um not confirmed okay um this is the time for public comments anyone wishing to speak on any topic that's not on the agenda this is the time to do do so seeing none I will call public comment move on to order of new business GL development code Article 4 part one and two I will just turn it over to staff and shall we all get comfortable yes thank you Mr chairman this is so exciting I'm so excited about this this is the Land Development code reite that you guys had already taken part in you reviewed articles two and three so today is going to be Article 4 part one and part two as well as the permissible uses table we're going to discuss so Article 4 it provides for specific standards for each zoning District um it goes over setbacks Heights um uses um just different standards for different uses as well um so one of the things that we noticed when we received Article 4 we received it in two parts so one part part one came in September and then part two came in October and so we realized we needed the entire document in order to see what the changes were and um also put together a cohesive um document for the changes we realized that some of the sections were difficult to read um we wanted um the consultant to provide clear and concise standards and language and um we noticed in article 4 that there's inconsistent uh references to the land use administrator um and city engineer we also wanted to see and we discussed this at our last meeting to go over the um LDC changes was the Milton Square we wanted to see a zoning district for Milton Square because those lot sizes are are smaller and you all see the deviations that come in here time and time again you all see that from Milton Square we also wanted to see um the planned unit development zoning districts that have expired we wanted to see um those expired puds we wanted to see zoning assigned to those those areas those parcels and we didn't see that so those are some of the general comments that we noticed with Article 4 and then we'll go into um details um tonight today hopefully it will not extend until [Laughter] tonight okay Mr Hall's ready to go home now okay so let's talk about the permissible uses table so we have had meetings with the Land Development code committee um and they've provided us with comments on the table and then staff we also had comments on the table uh we wanted to include New Uses we were also tasked with trying to determine if special exception use orders should go away um or if they should certain uses should be become permissible by right or just prohibited um so we were tasked with that and we took that task on and took it to the ldcc um as well as staff so we have a staff um meeting that we do on on every Thursdays to discuss this so we discussed it as as St staff and also as ldcc and we'll go through that table I don't know if you all have had a chance to look at these uses in detail but we will go through some of them and go through the changes as well so if you have any questions feel free to ask during the presentation I would love it um so single family detached you'll see where it's permissible in the different zoning districts um the underlined um is where it's going to be allowed by right um as a p in the new downtown so you'll see it in the new downtown and then we're also allowing it as permissible in the west Mitchell hammock Corridor there so that's single family detached the seven that you see there means that it's a non-conforming use so the existing single family that's located in those districts will become non-conforming um mobile home um the only places where it's allowed today as a special exception is R2 we deleted it from there it's allowed by right in um mh1 and then um we allowed it in agriculture it was a special exception in agriculture we're allowing it as a permissible use but we are removing mh1 right we are removing the zoning District mh1 um because we don't have that on our map it's listed in our um permissible uses table but we have no place on our map designated as mobile home and it's an area allowed for mobile home it's a um like a mobile home park okay single family attached so shouldn't that be crossed it should be crossed and this table you have two tables that were sent to you the first table is the one that has a strike through and underline and the second table which doesn't have any strike through is the final version of what this table would be I I think we have to cross right U um um yeah uh well let me it's not a text so it's not um the the table that is going to the consultant is going to be the final so she'll have it not sure if I can cross it it's an image and it's recurring throughout yeah it's an image you're not going to be able to cross so can we cross the P yes we can cross all the P's and I can put a note for sure so we can cross the P yeah there this one is well no cuz it's not the it's only the district that's going away okay so you have single family attached Town Homes um so we're allowing an um RP residential professional as well as an OC as a new permissible use and then you'll see that it's allowed in the downtown neighborhood um we're adding that as well as in the downtown Muse District as well as an Marketplace which is the Ovito mall area and West Mitchell hammock Corridor then you have the duplex um we're looking now at allowing it in the OC office commercial as well as downtown neighborhood and downtown mixed use District Multiplex is a new um uh typology and it's you can have duplexes um triplexes it's combination up to I believe eight eight units so we're allowing that in R2 R3 which are the residential R2 is the two family um District R3 is the multif family we're also allowing it an RP which is res residential professional and OC office commercial as well as in downtown neighborhood and mixus District Central Avenue area why off why office commercial I'm just curious I'm not opposed to I'm just wondering why you have it an office commercial also well primary example would be the the town the homes that are being built on a v on the park they're the three stories okay the bottom could be an office yeah all right to the future land use I believe allows residential but I have to go to the Future land use designation really quickly because I believe the future land use allows for U multif family it does so I can check that cther I think they're going to get it no you're looking at office here okay he's not coming she's not coming either what's the density okay so the office future landies Sayes allow for residential density at 16 dwelling units per acre at 16 16 dwelling units per acre but it's allowed with a mixed use okay like the no the table okay so the next one is going to be your uh multifam dwelling unit so that is allowed we're allowing that in OC C1 C2 as well as permissible in downtown neighborhood mix use District Central Avenue downtown mix use district and they were originally a special exception use orders but we're allowing it as permissible ible uses in those zoning districts and then you have adult care family home um the only thing that changed in that is um downtown neighborhood as a special exception and it's permissible in downtown mix use District bed and breakfast um the only difference now is we're allowing it as a special exception in OC and then downtown neighborhood is going to be special exception permissible and mixed use District central Avenue special exception in downtown mixus district I just have a question on uh duplex you say um it is going to be permissible in OC yes because on the chart I'm looking at the p is crossed out so I'm wondering am I looking at the wrong chart in my let's see let's keep that one up because that one has a mixed use okay okay so yes so you're right so we're going to stick with this one this one the duplex is um crossed out can you make that bigger yeah okay that's good okay so then um it's permissible in downtown neighborhood there's a P1 on that downtown core okay and then you have the um child care in the house and you'll see where it's permissible on here so we can go through each line item or you can just tell me if you have any um changes that you'd like to recommend on it CU we can go through each one if you want no Madam I mean Mr chair how would you prefer to do this I just go through yeah on the room on the rooming houses do we have any of those licensed now in the city or anything like that rooming houses they've come before um city council for special exception use order um most of them were denied I don't know if anyone that was approved so they are um they are a special exception and you have a lot of people who come out from surrounding um homes that are against it well yeah would would the airbnbs be classified in that in that category or is that some different category altogether it's a different category we don't regulate airbnbs mhm pardon shortterm rental yeah the industry's term is short-term rental for those sure okay so we are introducing accessory dwelling units into the table we um did not have accessory dwelling units in Our Land Development code but our comp plan allows for accessory dwelling units so we are now regulating it um this is just establishing the use the regulations are in Article 5 which we will not get to tonight but it's something that we're going to discuss at our next meeting so the accessory dwelling we did talk about that we talked about the accessory dwelling units in uh in certain areas s like some of the older areas if I remember correctly right we talked about allowing it where single family Residential Properties exist single family res only single family not duplexes or triplexes or apartments so it has to be a single family residential um unit and we talked about only allowing one at a certain square footage and I believe it was no more than a th000 square feet or a certain percentage of the home whichever is less put some stipulations about just one mailbox and one meter and all that as well yeah and that was some of the areas where there were not HOAs and things like that if I remember correctly I can't hear you that was some of the areas where there were not ho ways and what that was if I remember correctly right so we are not going to regulate that cuz we cannot so the comprehensive plan um established that aduse should be allowed in the city so we have to regulate and and we are not going to make a distinction for Homeowner Association but of course if you are in a homeown Association area then you have to comply with your own rules now if they are silent on an additional accessory unit then it opens the door to you know for them to have it and we would and if they come to us we would we would permit them because we would only we only enforce the City Rules we do not enforce Homeowner Association rules but the goal of the comprehensive plan was to allow accessory D any units I remember that conversation we did put some stipulations though yes okay and so another um new use is the live work units that was not in our um permissible usage table but it's there now we do have some in our um downtown area so it's um allowed in r1b R1 BB um R2 and R3 um their residential is allowed as a secondary use or office is allowed as a secondary use use um in those zoning districts as part of a u mixed use so we're allowing that in those residential zoning districts um we're also allowing it in RP OC C1 C2 um and then in the down toown neighborhood mixed use District Central Avenue downtown core Gateway Marketplace and West Mitchell hammock Corridor and we um just made it central Avenue for the record the muud we to simplify it in downtown cor now yes okay and so now we're moving on to Office Professional business office you'll see the zoning District that it's allowed in there um Medical Clinic hospital temporary construction sales office and that's when we have the Model Homes um those type of that's what that's [Music] for then you have personal services which is now retail daycare drugstore um drive-through restaurants we are changing that from a permissible use in C1 uh we're changing it from a special exception to permissible and C1 today it's a special exception use order so we're changing it to permissible but we also have it as a special exception in the Gateway West core Marketplace and West Mitchell hammock Corridor as a special exception so that's going to be a new use in those um targeted areas uh let's see we also have re um additional retail so you have the alcoholic beverage Package Store retail under we separated the retail by square footage so retail under 3,000 square ft and no outdoor storage or display and then retail 3,000 square feet to 10,000 square feet with no Alters display and then retail under 10,000 square feet above 10,000 square feet to I can't read that to 25,000 sare ft and no outdoor display and then retail above 25,000 with outdoor this way oh you moved it up I can't see it above 2000 and no outdoor display yes one of the things that we also introduced into this table and I'm looking for it now is the bar bar yeah bar bar yes bars so you'll see that is a new use that is introduced to the other areas outside of the downtown today only the downtown um area is allowed to have a bar so we're introducing it now in the um C two zoning districts as well as downtown core was already allowed to have it we now have Gateway West core um Marketplace and it looks like a special exception use order in West Mitchell hammock Corridor which is West Mitchell hammock Corridor is the area where you have The Duda sod farms on both sides um that's the West M hammock Corridor why not make it just permissible in that area reason was the reasoning for just making it special not I believe it should be permissible I I would agree as well yeah it would be the consensus of the whatever the consensus of the board is what you all say so on the bar yeah it's a need specialist permission on the west Mitchell ammet I think I think it should be just the be permissible across the board in there higher density areas I mean for that whole are back I mean it's all pretty much retail anyway yeah I agree you agree I would agree with that well it's not retail right now well no but there nothing there yeah there nothing there but the side Farm could be so I think I so what do you agree or disagree with making it permissible in that area I guess going to be there if you can all switch on the microphone so that I can record are they asking us there that well my question is right now it's need for that area it needs a special permit I'm thinking it should be just permissible across the board so the special exception process is where if a person wanted to place a bar in that location they would have to come and apply for what's called a special exception use order exception use order is an application and it goes before the local planning agency as well as city council um so it's a public hearing process so what Mr the chairman is asking is should someone who wants to open up a bar in that location go through this process in order to place the bar um at that in that area you know I'm okay with being special use because right now there's nothing there whereas all the others have stuff the marketplace has a mall downtown core we've defined it and there's stuff already there and I can see those areas but that one is like an untouched unknown area at the moment so I think this for me I'm okay with leaving it special because we really don't know what no we've seen we plan we've seen the density all has of we think's going to go there but we don't really know just yet so that's why I'm okay with leaving in this special I'm in agreement with that so it's three to two who was the third oh anybody want to change this would include every the the plaza right there with Mission Barbecue and yeah exactly yeah and CER I would think a bar would fit into that retail Plaza M yeah that's where that's where my thought was is as well because you already have but aren't we really talking about the rest of all that land all the open land that's there right now I mean right there yes I could see that but that's included that's what's considered so it's one of the target areas right so we trying to bring the same kind of you know mix use more intense you know how far east does it go all the way to Alfa or no no stops right there at the end of The Duda property I think it's stops U before um Ale House at a house area yes okay te it up and West we have the map here but that area also yeah that purple area that's why I mean it's so untouched at this point because that could end up being you know residential or town homes or whatever else it could all go in that area that's well but even even if you have Town Homes you know it'll be something I would probably I'm speculating right speculation right spe it's going to be similar to across the street here on uh Alexandria right where you have couple restaurants coffee shop and the overon park also has Town Homes yeah right and and that's an area that we allow bars so I anticipate that quter right there to be in that same kind of mindset in the future and why not give them the opportunity to yeah because this this is the area yeah I get it that's one of the areas that the city as a whole said they wanted to see um the most intense development most dense you know the apartment so you're going to have that mixture like you have in the downtown so the question is I didn't see who the three two where it should it be a special exception you order in that area I mean I get I guess one of my concerns is uh perception of others that live within Ido yeah as far as making it easier for a business to go there maybe there's in a business we haven't thought of that somebody would be more or a group of people would be more against so make it a little bit more of an effort well even to put a bar in you've got to go through a whole bunch of Loops Hoops anyway yeah I understand that I mean it's not like just because you're GNA it's permissible doesn't mean you can't you still got to go through different steps but yeah City wise and statewise right but do we want to do that for the city or not and usually I see a lot of residents that just have knee cherk responses I do too and that's I mean and what really what you said is kind of making me think about that because it's not saying they can't do it right it just means they got to come to city council or whatever and get approval for it it's it would be permissible if they got a special acception and sometimes that could be easy enough I mean if they're going to be yeah I'm I've changed my mind I'm but only on the on the counterargument is that usually we protect what is existing right so actually because it there's nothing there right so what are you really protecting I'm protecting by I agree with what you just said by perception just perception okay that's knee-jerk people do it all the time yeah um and like I said it's not you know it's it's not it's it's not yeah exactly it's not saying no and I can see that area although we talk about where Mission and all those places are I can't imagine I can't imagine that entire Place being bus is like that I think it's going to be a whole lot more mixed use and probably residential or people are living and that sort of thing so that's why I'd rather I'd rather leave that one as a special section yeah I'm I'm leaning that way now that's fine okay stays as it is stay that it is okay so go beyond the retail dry cleaners Bank Okay so we have the bank with drive-thru we are allowing it in um Is that West Mitchell hammock West W West Mitchell hammock and then there's also downtown core as well bank with a drive-thru so that's a special exception there which one bank with drivethru yep we were trying that anymore are they going to be are they this existing anymore I don't even think they're near future there's not going to be any Bank buildings anyway just you got completed one right now I'm just joking around yeah I prefer them but me too but just not in my downtown yeah okay so then we have that we also have the micro breweries that's been in the code already but we are allowing it in um downtown neighborhood uh mix District Central Avenue downtown court or Marketplace West Mitchell hammock so I'm I'm going to reopen the argument again because it's a permissible it's a micro Brewery it's a bar and yet we're saying that a bar classification by itself needs a special permit so I think we're kind of contradicting ourselves in these two areas well do we say that the micro Brewery should be special well I'm I'm just throwing that out there I mean because really what is a micro Brewery Bar is it any different because of food there's there's food yeah that's bar can have food too bar can have food yeah well that's that's that's why I was asking yeah you know but maybe the bar is then the micro bur is as soon as it has food unless it's just Budweiser yeah so I mean I'm saying you know just I'm just throwing that out right no no no I let go I I understand I think micro I think micro Brewery sounds better it's a cleaner name that's right wow the difference is is the difference is that micro Brey is limited to beer right and a bar is limit is is open to a leaker so you know crucially there's there's Brewing yeah that's the other thing they're actually making they're making it as opposed to just sell and and let me clarify it's not necessarily link to food either usually you you serve also food but micr bre is just that you you have the the manufacturing and and the and the consumption is a percentage of what they have to brw so this is what the definition says it says establishments that can respectively brew beer Andor distill spirited beverages Andor produce wine on a small scale not to exceed 75% of the business square footage and with limited production as regulated by the state these establishments shall include a tasting room and retail space to sell the local production for for consumption on the premises and off premises along with retail items and food so 75% but they have to sell some portion of retail or food Distillery though that's that could be some harder uh alol but again only only whatever they produce on site so a bar offers the whole R I'm just not see does need to produ the difference though agree with I don't either I say let's make it permissible does the bar as well that's what I would vote I'm I'm good with that so we go back to bar so are we leaving it as special exception or permissible I mean it's not really going to hurt my feelings either away but I think it maybe it's more fair maybe what's that so that maybe it's more fair that would be all be permissible yeah I mean we know what the definition is and all the differences are but in the end they're just all selling kind of the same thing at the end of the day right yeah I mean well kind of I mean I'm yeah there's a there's a small difference we agree yeah I'm going to go to the micro Brewery because I like to have berries I'm not going to have you know BL wi yeah that's that's it I mean it's still like I said I just think it's fair to I guess do the same make it permissible I guess I'm I'm I like because bar just sounds more divy Dy yeah like I said the other one fancy yeah I'm trying not to have it be a div not that something new would be div I don't know maybe it would but that's my thought what's consent I I I say permissible okay huh we don't have to be I I'm in favor of both being permissible we can be fre too when it goes yeah so you have three three two permissible so put in their LPA want to be want to be yeah put LPA consensus to make it from okay okay so you'll see the location for Artisan food production um where it's special exception it's special exception in RP um permissible in OC C1 C2 also in industrial um they're permissible and in the targeted areas you'll see that it's permissible hotel motel you'll see that it's a special exception and see 1 is permissible in C2 C2 is the most out of the commercial zoning districts C2 is the most intense C1 is the um least intense um so you also see hotel motel allowed in downtown core Gateway West Mitchell hammock I mean Marketplace in West Mitchell hammock Corridor you'll see the locations for veterinarian um and kennel those are the animal services um category as well as pet care services you'll see those uses and when they are allowed or special exception and then you get into the industrial use manufacturing and wholesale so you have the wholesale sales no outdoor storage or display you'll see the that's permissible in um C2 i1 and I2 wholesale sales with outdoor storage and display um special exception in C2 permissible in i1 and I2 Nursery green houses you'll see the permissible uses there as well as your um Nursery green houses with retail sales and it's a special it's permissible now in agriculture as opposed to a special exception then you have your Industrial Park manufacturing with or without outdoor storage or display we have a new category called Light Industry um that's your light industrial uses that we're um during the comp plan rewrite we allowed light Industries and as a pericial use in some of the um future landies designations so we we've now taken that to make it consistent um with our comprehensive plan we are putting it into the Land Development code and allowing it in certain zoning districts so you'll see um that use allowed as a special exception in C1 and then it's permissible in C2 i1 and I2 as well as in the downtown core it's permissible um it's permissible in Gateway West Marketplace and West Mitchell hammock Corridor then you have the research development and testing and then your Laser Technology and then your simulation and modeling and you'll see those uses as well as where they're permissible or special exception use order and then you have the educational cultural or religious uses so that would include your um elementary schools your churches can can I ask a question sorry interrup but uh the last four that we mentioned before that so we have simulation modeling and training permissible in the the three on the left and the same thing for Light Industry but where does that I don't understand what the Laser Technology and photonics and the research development testing don't those kind of fit together with simulation and modeling and Light Industry my question is why two of them but the other two not we had that conversation and we asked the Consultants to to um simplify it so that the definition includes all of them so when the final version comes out you're not going to see those uses they're just going to be um in the definition it's going to be titled one word and and then those uses will be in the definition it's what we ask the consultant to do so we're going to combine all those categories into the we're going to combine them okay to me they're all the same me too that's yes so actually then it will be permissible for those other two you're saying the light uh research development and the Laser Technology will have it also I think their um rationale wants to because some of these industries are um uh Target Industries for the city but we do not need to have them spelled out individually for us it's the impact if they are light Industries they should be considered as light Industries CU otherwi it gets confusing because then if it's not exactly that category then it gets so it it should be light and heavy and you know so the the P will be different um and for that simulation and molding they'll all be allowed wherever one of them is allowed they all be allowed okay so I guess that means are we going to see this again you will see it again is going to change okay you'll see it again of course we'll see it again okay okay so then you have the elementary you have the trade and Vocational you have the churches libraries um social fraternal clubs and you'll see where they are allowed um elementary schools according to our comp plan should be permissible in in all the future land use designations so we change um you'll see it's it was a special exception use order and now it's a permissible use in the residential zoning districts you'll see the s for the churches and the agriculture that's a new use that we're introducing to agriculture oh is it okay so that's we're striking it out of Agriculture I'll let the record show that Mr the poic to Rite me to the punch are we having the s for the church synagogues and temples in all the residential areas just because we think that could be somebody not actually building a church but like having a church service within their house type of thing that could happen but you can also have where they can build a church within a a residential neighborhood um I do know there was one off of Aria before Bentley Woods yeah one there is a sday Adent over there uhuh Yeah so basically is next to what a residential neighborhood as well the Catholic Church what did you say the Catholic church is also next to a Residential Group yeah so you can have them there as new development okay yeah and those I know there was I guess in my my in my mind I was thinking someone's going to come out and knock down three houses and build a church some middle of the neighborhood it's happened well that's that's why it's a special exception yeah there would be a traffic analysis like how many people are being drawn to this okay okay so we'll go to the next category uh we also have indoor Recreation so and this one the first one is going to be um indoor Recreation is is a category that has already existed we also have privately owned recreational facilities such as athletic fields parks golf courses um and then we also have P publicly owned so you have a privately owned and then you also have a publicly owned um recreational facilities such as athletic fields parks golf courses and then we also have um golf driving range not associated with the golf course um horseback riding Stables under Recreation as well as theaters and movie theaters um we have that in that category as well as adult entertainment so you'll see where we are now allowing some of those uses as permissible or as a special exception in the different zoning districts is there a comment on the highlighted one okay did you all have any questions on that I personally I like to see the adult entertainment be a special permissible you'd like to see it as a special exception mhm I agree with that yeah actually I do too I was thinking why do we even have it but I guess we have to but do we have to yeah say have to ask Mr Hall he if you can switch on your sorry because we need to record this yeah of course you know there's been a lot of litigation with with the adult entertainment forms and basically the courts have said is you can regulate where they go but you can't keep Mount so to speak so that's why mostly you'll see every place industrial I don't know that I've seen one anywhere outside except for some places like Campa which have places everywhere pretty much but most most city has gone to limited industrial indust can we make it a special permissible application special exception you can probably make a special exception you can't keep them out but you can probably make a special exception I think that's a good idea I agree with that yep sure when thought on that with the special exception stuff just keep in mind you'd have to have a hearing exactly there's very limited circumstances where the special exception wouldn't be authorized so if an adult entertainment venue wanted to open up in oito y'all are going to have to go in front of the community and take a position on whether or not it it's and there's very few instances in which we wouldn't be able to allow anal exception anyway just keep in mind but your what Your yeah what your obligation you're placing upon yourself if you P it by a special exception just something to keep in mind I well I guess give I don't have a problem with the one where the other I've just yeah I think it makes it where at least the community would have to be aware of it where if we just put a with a p there they can just do it oh they'll be aware yeah I'm sure that's that's my point yeah exactly it'll well in it's special exception also requires U mitigation yeah so you can require additional buffers you can require you know so that is there could be limits yeah I'm I'm fine with specialist yeah I don't I was just pointing that out so we have consensus with the special uh yes in both yes I want and I gosh could you imagine what that hearing would look like oh lots of people for various reasons I'm waiting for someone else to say yeah okay torches okay so the next category it's going to be the motor vehicle related sales and services and you'll see Motor Vehicle sales or rental um mobile home sales Motor Vehicle sales with repair no body repair motor vehicle repair and maintenance no body work motor vehicle painting and body work and then you have what does that say alternative fuel station Al fuel station okay alternative fuel stations it's hard to read the green I'm sorry and then Car Wash is there another one underneath that okay so you have that and you'll see where it's permissible um or a special exception mostly so the green is proposing X or proposing P permissible yeah so it was a special exception use order um the alternative fuel station is a new use and so we're proposing it um as a permissible use in um C1 and then C2 as well as an i1 and I2 and then special exceptions in the targeted areas clarification because I know that the assistant city manager is trying to get some Char I'm guessing this is for charging stations electrical charging stations it could be at this point is one of of them right yeah so I know he was thinking trying to get some grants to put some at the golf course so if if we look at the golf course it's across the board right no that so that would be um in parking spaces to have charging stations would that that's an accessory use these are for the whole lot the primary use it's the primary use yeah you see those hotels shopping so this is more like uh what tessla is doing down at uh and the point yeah yeah lot M those uses are just primary uses yeah because they're putting a huge one in Hew Junction that makes sense it's like a 100 stations or something like that wow I might have the number off but that's what they're planned okay so that would fall into that category then yes okay then you have um storage and parking so surface parking storage um these are on Lots where there's no principal use and then you also have structured parking surface parking warehouse storage Distribution Center mini warehouse which is a personal storage scrap materials junkyards Auto graveyards and you'll see where those uses are special exception use order or permissible mu means that it's that's a new category that we came up with it means that in the comp plan it's not a primary use so it can't be um a primary use it has to be a secondary use with a um mixed use development like a PUD so it would have to be the planned unit development where you have the um development agreement and conceptual development plan that this board makes a recommendation on so mixed use means that it has to be part of um it can't be the prim primary use but it has to be in conjunction with a different primary use so we'll go on to agricultural uses and Mining operations so you have the agricultural farming excluding livestock agricultural farming um including livestock maximum 1 acre community garden that is the new use that we're introducing um community garden U we're allowing it as a permissible use in all the residential districts um as well in as in agriculture and in um downtown neighborhood mixed use District Central Avenue downtown core and Marketplace you also have mining um borrow pit landfill in that um category then you have the miscellaneous public and semi-public Facilities you have the airport post office cemetery and bus stations and you'll see where those are um special exceptions and permissible the next category is going to be the Open Air Market for sales you have the permanent open air um markets such as flea markets um Crafts Etc you also have a farmers market which is that one is temporary right doesn't that say temporary sorry permanent intermittent oh intermittent um Farmers Mark I'm sorry I cannot read the green um so those are kind of um um we kind of they're not New Uses but we clarify that one is a permanent one and then one is a temporary one so you'll see where those are allowed because we've been getting a lot of those requests for farmers markets and different locations so we want to have it as a permissible use in the city because we think it it attracts um people and it's a good use so we want what's the definition of intermit interm it's a temporary they may come on like maybe once a week or once every once a month but it's not if come once a month or come once a week that would be a permanent wouldn't it no because they're going to pick up and leave okay so like where they do it monthly where a lot Elementry is in the front there what is the zoning that one know that's going to be downtown as well downtown transition but we want to encourage those that use because it's happening did you have just going to say now they have to apply for a special event permit you know every time they want to do an intermittent so this gives them so that gives this gives them more flexibility not always have to apply that okay so the next one is going to be your communication Towers that's mon poles communication Towers is that multiple uses okay so that's deleted and then camouflage we have camouflage Towers what's the next one that's okay so I have I've got a question for you on the monopole towers and communication Towers because you're you're taking them out of the residential areas okay and with the 5G technology and 5G five 6G technology coming you're going to need those Towers in all the residential areas exactly is that the one that looks like telephone poles I saw one today at front of Walgreens those those are the five those are the 5G and then soon to be 6G so if you eliminate them from those areas there won't be any serves so so what is the H is the same with the telephone so if you see if you go down they're small poles they're just about the same height as a light pole but they have you know 360 uh 360° at Tenn so these are for those huge structures like the one I we have here but someone's going to come in and say hey it's a mon it's a monopole therefore because there's no height you're not saying a height restriction on that so we have to see if the definition that's it's going to then affect how we uh you have to address that in you have to address it's a good point because they've already put some on Lockwood yeah well but if they on the on the RightWay right this is not they this and it depends on where it's located CU today I don't believe thatou I'm just I'm just I just don't want to if we talking about Paul's in the rer way that is not okay this is this is these are for parcel so these are for the the one that we have here that it's in our property and it's huge um those are going away oh that that's a great thing no they're going they're going away okay that's why you're going to see a lot of these smaller um there's a whole bunch of them over by UCF there's I think two right now on Lockwood if I'm not mistaken one by Hagerty and one for their by the golf course and they are in the right away they're they're on the sidewalk yeah they're on that little median area of the sidewalk if they are that's not that's that's going to be the new technology that's uh that you're going to be seeing because the signal path on the 5G is a shorter distance opposed to the older technology which would go further out you can get two and a half miles these are much tighter signals I've seen there's a YouTube videos where they test it out and they have to you know they lose it pretty quick they have they have to go find a new tower you yeah so that you're going to see but the problem is you're going to see a lot more of them because their distance is shorter so instead of having one every two and a half three miles you may have one every every mile M or multiples so I'm just throwing that out there so that we you're aware of it but you're on this thing you're talking about the big huge ones that are so this is only Parcels right these are just uses on Parcels so this is not regulating right away infrastructure light PS telephone PS that's not you know that is not regulated here is that any definition of this just to follow what you're saying so that in future time someone doesn't come and say well monole this is a monop pole because I think you're going to start seeing a lot of those small poles on buildings like on the faces buildings and whatnot MH with the state regulated at that point hard to say I mean well right now they're not I know there's a lot there's a lot of hotels on International Drive that have cell towers on their property what's to prevent you know we've got a lot of on our comp plan areas for hotels what's it say that they don't you know that one of the self providers says I want to put a tower on that hotel and the way this reads they couldn't do it then correct well they have to ask for a request they do they can they have to do a special exception use order true yeah so they can and we' like to make sure that if it's a camouflage it needs to be camouflaged we have to regulate that as well if it's on a poll um we want to make sure that it's landscape that it has to have the proper um infrastructure around it that we require so it's um but they can do it if it's on a building if it meets our requirements okay so let's go on to um are there any other questions about the table no okay all right so we're going to go to article four part one over the changes with that okay so let's go to page four and so as I go through this and and I'm going to need to get your consensus as well on each one of the items so under 4.1 General development standards finished FL elevations um we're recommending um deltion of that entire section it's already covered in the engineering standards manual so the portion that's deleted we're referring to it in the engineering standards manual do we have consensus from the L the whole section there C yes but the same text is somewhere else and the engineering standards manual and we're referring to it okay I'm good with that y I'm good with that we don't want to have duplication because if the engineering standards manual change our LDC may not change do we make I'm curious then so if we limitated do we even make reference of it here or says like CV engineering standard man it's there it says lots and building sites shall be graded to per construction utilizing first floor elevation based on the requirements of the engineering standards man okay so you put LP in senses okay okay the next one is still on page four um it's D net developable Acres um it says n developable Acres shall be defined as the number of Uplands within the boundary of the development excluding Anchorage devoted to Waters of the state wetlands and natural lakes um It also says at the bottom the city is going to round down we put in there that the city will round down to the nearest whole number did you put it on the side it's right there on the side yeah so our comp plan says the city will round down to the nearest whole number when rounding decimals so we added that language to that okay based on the comp plan is there consensus yeah yep yep okay so structur setbacks our comments for that was that we need um a visual on the designation of yards especially odd shaped yards so it talks about the designation of front and rear all Lots must have at least one front yard and one rear yard or additional front yard um in cases of five-sided or irregularly shaped Lots the land use administrator shall determine the designated rear yard so we want um we need more clar clarification on that language um and we want it to be more concise and clear for that and we want some type some type of visual to explain what that is yeah diagram is there a consensus for that that's fine y okay so the next one is going to be on page five and it's um 4.2 minimum lot use regulations table um we wanted um in the when we first got this they did not have standards for Town Homes um multif Family mixed use office commercials and parking structures um so we have um in our architectural standards what they did was they removed the architectural standards they removed a lot of the sighting um a lot of the setbacks and they tried to throw it into Article 4 but they left out um some key aspects from article 8 um into Article 4 they left it out so one of the things that we had in our architectural was um setbacks some minimum lot standards for Town Homes because Town Homes um as well as multif family mixed use Office commercial but town home in particular um before we had the architectural standards that were put in place in 200 17 um we had a lot of deviations for town homes we actually had to start doing planned unit developments to allow for different setbacks for Town Homes because you're going to have town homes that are individual Lots you're not going to have setbacks in between the units um and the side setbacks the front setbacks are a little different um because the units are so tiny um the width of the lot is different as well um so you you we were going to need deviations so instead of doing deviations for the whole town home subdivision we would do planed unit development so when we established the new um 2016 architectural design standards all of the puds for Town Homes went away because we had in there um different standards for Town Homes different standards for multif family for mixed use for commercial um and office uses so when they moved when they migrated um standards from article 8 to Article 4 they left out um those different things that would make a huge difference for town homes and other typologies so what we're saying is we want them to put that language put something in here to account for um those uses those typologies so that's not on this chart we're looking at right now it is not and also on this chart you have um Heights in the architectural design order if it was a town home you could go to 45 ft um office and commercial you could go to 60 ft if it was on development corridors um when they moved that over to Article 4 they left that out as well um so they'll have to our recommendation is that they move all of that including the setbacks the heights all of that into Article 4 to account for so we kind of did that and you'll see that we did that in um the article 4 part two you'll see that we did that um cuz it was important for us so is there a consensus for that so we'll go over the height of what we want but is there a consensus to migrate um the setback to this yeah yeah that makes sense yeah is there a I'm looking at my chart which a little different there is there a difference between the red comments and the blue comments are they just different people or so look at the one dated September are you on the one dat at September I'm just looking at the one that's in the packet I'm on page six of 85 go to the front go to the front of what you're looking at yeah I am so it should say September 2023 yeah it does it just looks different than what he's got up there so oh you know why cuz this one is Google yours is going to be we had to download it into word okay so the page numbers are going to be different as well PF PDF yeah just the comments people made some of them are all in red some of them are blue and I didn't know if that was that was throwing me off as well or if there's like a different team looked at it or what the blue and the red did yeah so you'll see the comments over here it doesn't have any think it means anything we also don't know why there are different colors there are some up there that say Anonymous is there is that for any particular reason no it's because the system sometimes does not recognize okay who is the person or you know so if you don't register in Google like your name then you come up as Anonymous okay but it's all staff okay okay yeah just curious it it's been a wild ride with these documents and tables okay so um that's the table for that we're going to have changes to also um Milton Square zoning district is not in here um we asked them to create a new zoning district for the Milton Square Lots that's not in here okay can you go down at the ldcc meeting um one of the things that um one of the board members and actually all of them wanted us to look at smaller um lot size um setbacks for the R2 zoning District um as well as the lot size they they they want us to look at maybe creating um instead of 7500 ft maybe a 5,000 square foot um for the R2 so we're also considering that and the issue has been um you'll have to help me with the issue this one is for single family lots that are on these small Lots that's not within the Milton Square um but they want to be able to achieve eight dwelling units per acre because the comp plan allows um for R2 it's a medium density residential medium density residential allows for eight dwelling units per acre in order to achieve eight dwelling units per acre you have to have a 5,000 a little over 5,000 foot lot so the the concern was this R2 at 7500 ft does not allow you to achieve the eight dwelling units per eight um so they are recommending that we reduce the minimum um lot size so that you can achieve the eight dwelling units per acre so I need to get your input on that as well if where where in town do we currently have that where we'd be talking about just so I can get a visual of where I'm thinking about R2 is going to be the s sort of seaf foamy green kind of bear with me here this is most of our R2 I'll zoom out first but it's going to be um in here here that's north of Broadway here and there's two more sections that's the old That's the older Historical Area that's not Milton Square what's that one Milton Square is right in here oh that is Milton Square yep but you also have it South of Broadway no South justway yeah up in here actually some of the ones over there in the just north ofo on the park aren't some of those older platted areas too kind of yeah it's right in there was that also some of those that's a different that's going to be the downtown transition area yeah so they're going to have a different lot size they were old I just remember they have old lcks that were very narrow people at houses across two and three in there yeah but we have a person who's on the ldcc who um has property in the R2 and it's been difficult for him to achieve the 10 dwelling units per acre because of the minimum lot size I'm sorry eight dwelling units per acre eight 10 same [Laughter] thing did I explain that right was that the did I yeah you did got okay is it is it flashing you want to say that means it's dead yeah what that flashing it that means it died sorry can you grab the other the other one's the other one's dead too that's fling flashing also did you have a comment that is not a sign don't take that as a sign I didn't say it was a sign what the heck is this Jesus that's karaoke time that show that way over there man um nobody wants to hear me that bad could you explain the conflict with the comp plan in this zoning just so I understand a little bit better you said the comp plan I'm trying to figure that out could you clarify okay let me see if I can find this really quickly so the complain establishes the density right and we do not deviate from the density and the density is way eight dwelling units per acre now there is a difference when you are sub dividing a whole lot a whole parcel and you're creating several Lots we calculate the density based on the total you know acreage so we calculate you know the area that is going to be dedicated for streets also as part of the basis for the density so the their claim is that um um minimum lot size for R2 that are2 allows duplexes but a minimum lot size does not give you two units per acre it would have to be 10,000 and something square square feet to give you the two units but if you have a a PSP subdivision that was approved we can allow you know duplexes with the smaller lot because the density the whole of the whole area was calculated now for old stuff that we inherited in the city we do not have those calculations anymore so we have to apply on the lot and then they they're saying so the 7 7500 does not give them um two units but it's it could be smaller for one unit so for one unit so basically they're looking for as an economic to their benefit not for the city's benefit correct absolutely they're trying they trying to well that's what I'm picking up on so I'm trying to figure out in the um so the comp plan says that R2 is supposed to have eight units per acre not R2 not R2 medium density the minimum the minimum yeahi the Min the minimum density on R2 no medium density residential future land use designation gosh there I'm losing my mind yes so on on medium density they're supposed to be able to put eight units at so the the concern is at maximum maximum maximum and so they want the Land Development code to make sure they're getting the maximum but it doesn't necessarily have to be it wouldn't violate a comp plan to leave it the way it is right it just no the so the thing is wouldn't conflict I should say our our only zoning District that is consistent with the medium density residential Fe land use designation is R2 okay that's it and R unless they do a planned unit development so in but so in those R2 districts they could have a maximum of eight units but they could also they can standards they wouldn't be able to have eight but they could have six but that would left for duplexes is what you're saying is that so so duplexes was one was one of the things but they eventually settled on even a single family they cannot even build eight single families with the R2 zoning District because of the minimum lot size and lot width of R2 zoning District no no they can but they're leaving acreage UND develop on the table they can't achieve the a dwelling unit so they can they can have one but one for our two could be smaller so for the density so in order be smaller in order to maximize the density of a lot they want to reduce the standard to allow them to have greater density on those lots but they're still can build on the R2 lot just not as dense as they would like not not greater density to to match the the density of the comp plan of the comp plant the maximum density of the comp maximum to take advantage of the allowable density of the comp plan they would like to change the standards to allow them to take maximum use of the Avail even if you were to reduce the standard you still could not achieve a duplex unless you have 10,890 sare ft you have to have 10,890 right got it got it okay so thank you that makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the clarification my opinion on this uh just for the talk conversation of consensus I think we have enough allowable density uh in the comp plan already I don't think we need to reduce the standards to provide even more density it doesn't Pro provide more density than the comp you cannot even we it's illegal it would be illegal for them to achieve more than eight dwelling un no no what I mean is it's to maximize allow we don't I don't think we need to I think we have enough opportunity to build density in a lot of places that we don't need to change our standards to allow even more density in an R2 District by saying well look good we could fit three here now I think we have enough space to cram in PL people that I don't think we need to cram in more people that's my opinion based on my interpretation of the pulse of the community is that I don't think we need to have more opportunities for more people in more places other than where it's already designated in the comp plan and it seems so that lot that lot size that's up there that's the minimum that they can go in order to meet the comp plan density so they couldn't go below 5,445 at all that would be the absolute minimum that they could um go if we were to make any changes and that am I hearing the LDC um committee members argument is that our current plan kind of benefits the big guys because they can buy more land and the small guys kind of get punished because they don't have the acreage that the big guys have is that kind of what I'm [Music] hearing no I don't think so I don't think so I I don't know if we can draw that conclusion from what they said but you can make that inclusion you can make that argument um from because if you have a a small piece of property and you want to maximize it you you're going to be limited right with um the existing um lot size and lot width because a bigger parcel like you were saying you can then even count the road even though uh that's not going to be a house MH correct right so well when you're developing you know a master plan we calculate the whole area small guy doesn't get really that benefit but is it also is it fair to say that the only R2 districts are those ones you showed us there's no other r2s anywhere else within the city so they can always request an R2 zoning District you can always request it do a zoning change and you would have to make sure the future land use matches but the only zoning District that we have that is consistent with medium density residential is R2 or PUD and a PUD you know you have to do the development agreement and conceptual development plan which is a pretty lengthy process so they're saying that it's not fair that the only zoning District that we have and you cannot even achieve the maximum density Allowed by the comp plan I'd leave it like it is what's that I would leave it like it is I'm okay with leaving it like it like my said like my point is yes they're they can if we shrink the size of the things sure they can sh maximum density but I don't think our Focus should be on maximizing all potential development on basic what you're saying is if they want to do it they have to bring it to us it's not like right now just like the other thing we talked about if we make it permissible it just can't be then they're going to have smaller they're going to we're going to have more density in in R2 I mean that's what's going to happen they're going to go cool now I can put three houses here and they will and look they'll build a house on anything right now and I just don't think we need to make it even easier to add even more density I think we've I have a question is when I'm weighing this out is there a chance that those r2s can become like multihousing like a small apartment complex no no okay does this only for two family or single family so only if it's allows in the that table that we were discussing so we can pull that table again and see what is allowed in R2 I was trying to that would you rather have they could change it to mold housing versus it being a town home and a tight squeeze of those choices which would you so again that has to meet that has just that oh no I understand that would have to meet um density okay anytime you bring a new unit unless it is an accessory dwelling unit so you know so if you have single family and you have an accessory dwelling unit that doesn't count for density so you'll see multif family is not a permissible use Multiplex is and that's the maximum of eight okay agree I see yeah and just to clarify that that discussion plays more you know it's more important with lot splits it's less when you have Master you know um um plans but when you are splitting Lots because that's what we are going to have now in the city is more you know those smaller Redevelopment so you have a parcel of land you want to split the the the parcel a smaller lot you know that allows to maximize the density helps you know those developers what is the difference between R2 and R1 BB that one allows the 50t lot in 5,000 sare foot the one right above it do we have any R1 BBS in the city today we do and it's in the East portion of the it's over there that one area pretty much there might be one other section but did they make did they get a zoning change when they add of that area that was a p so again they have to meet the density of the area so usually what happens is that you have a a master plan you had a an area you know but those are Town Homes aren't they no that's this is Chapman at 434 right Al Trail right oh that's that's no those are those are single family are they single but that's that's the R1 BB yep oh no that's Town Hall that town h no those are not those are sing that's oh yes yes that's single family it's an old older one right so there's three en ch Oak chap Oak yeah there's there's three or four but I I'm not sure off top of my head where the other I think it's just these two in that one over there you had the one on the east side of town right what's I why would they just come back and that's exactly right yeah yeah so why so why wouldn't someone here's the question which we just brought up why wouldn't someone rezone R2 to R1 BB they can't because they don't want to go through the three zoning process well that would be that would solve the problem yeah that was my my my point we already have so let's just take consensus yeah cool the way it hold on before you before you vote on that because I think R1 BB we have to look at the permissible uses table so I think it's just limited to single family it's not duplexes it's not I'm okay I think like the amount of apartments that we have permissible in our comp plan we don't need more density in single family home zoning I just I don't think it does the city that size of lot debor they would not be able to have duplexes in the lot anyway they not right so they are trying to bring the lot to so for a a minimum um lot to be a duplex has to be 10,000 something 10,8 so 5,000 is for a single family in the duplex you know um uh zoning what they claim is that the 7500 doesn't give them the duplex either but it I think it it was planned for a um subdivision where you would count additional land land for the roads so if you count s to me like somebody wants to make a land deal and I'm not voting so we'll just leave it you're you're for leaving it the board wants to leave it you're for leaving it yeah okay smth I'm good leaving it as it is David same same same keep the same we're leaving it like it is no change to the existing just play by the damn rules huh just play by the rules don't rewrite them i r okay so let's have a discussion about height height let's look at height let me always bad for the people who don't want to follow yeah exactly need to make things easier it's not saying it's not permissible just got to come bring it what I want to say I'm not going to say on record computer you off for the it it out yeah right it's already summer right it is we're getting a cold FR next week oh yeah what we're having technical difficulty 91.3 a little bit of rain and it'll all get Ste it does this every year and then there's going to be a freaking hurricane to make up all the heat it happens every year I remember one year we had really beautiful all the [Music] way a yeah it was amazing is it already we weren't sure we were going to use these mics early on they were having technical isues I'm already I'm scared about some now what are we looking at okay so now we're looking at height okay so we had a conversation oh boy we had a conversation about the different typologies um that were moved from the architectural over to Article 4 um but with no height no setbacks or anything of that nature so I want to just talk about the existing Heights that we have in our Land Development code so today this is our downtown you'll see that if it's um this is Mitchell hammock and this is um this is oito Boulevard here so the height in this area is 45 ft today the height in this area um this is Lindsay Lane is 65 ft anything in that area 65 over here is 35 ft and 65 ft makes it what three stories four stories approximately about um how 30t would be three probably like four five yeah 65 because it's up to the the ceiling plate so it's not the the top of the the you know the construction it's at the the roof height the roof height the lowest point the lowest point of the ceiling plate which is the base of the roof okay so anything that is beyond that doesn't count in the height so if you have so a building that's got a peak roof the par doesn't count doesn't count theare so 65 ft would be how many stories approximately so if you have 10 can be six could be six be stories yeah huh so today as well outside of the downtown you have these development corridors which would be the red hatched areas um you'll see this is 434 this is Mitchell hammock here you have Broadway there those can be up to 60 feet if it's along one of those corridors today and then this is some examples of um wish I could I if I want to make it bigger because I may lose something um but you'll see here the height this is um right here the Ellington no that's not Ellington that's the Strand that is the Strand The Strand two or so you'll see the height here is 51 feet okay and that gives you some perspective as to what is existing there then you also have this is the Ellington here so this is 52 ft here and that is one two three four and the height is measured here top of the ceiling plate and then you also [Music] have this is the dwell a dwell is 50 ft because if you have commercial on the ground floor commercial usually requires more space more height yeah right so if you have only if it's only multif family then you can have more floors but like look at this picture here the on the color picture the very right corner I guess the left corner on the bottom one so you're telling me it's not that whatever you call that thing at the top there it's just the height of the it's the roof line the top of the roof line mhm it's not the top of the roof line it's top of the ceiling plane the ceiling the ceiling of the of the last unit that is that is that level that case it's that white line there would be the ceiling yes so above that doesn't count no any paret any architectural you know design design any kind of faas design does not count and any kind of like a specialty bar up on top not does not count for the height I'm throwing that out you idea that's not a bad idea to have it on oh no no no no no no no no no that would count of course that would count okay oh yeah no anything that is you know I thought it were talking I did not get it I'm sorry no a bar would be a news right would be a construction so that would be the ceiling plate of that unit if a if a bar would be allowed or an open bar they do have open bar I'm like a patio bar it doesn't have to have a building structure just like a open bar would that that wouldn't count it would CU you have to have the access right you do not get to the roof of the building without just opening you know like a submarine it has you have to have a stair case and the staircase yeah go up a ladder that's good not yet so if if we have a if you have a structure and it's habitable that counts okay right of course if you have a Terrace it doesn't count but the the St their case would count as in the height everything that is that is you know um so let me clarify this because say take that building and it say was the top if there was roof access you're saying it would count as the height it has to most of these buildings have roof access no not not for not internally they would have some kind of access that is not um for for not for use not for use not for daily use dis for maintenance purposes that's that's the definition I guess would be um do we have access to the roof um internally because if you have access to ro like to fix the the AC units or whatever or the elevator structure does that count now as a as another height or not the way she was just defining it right what well one they do have to have access to the roof to be able to access those pieces of mechanical equipment but sometimes it's through ladder internally sometimes through a ladder externally see another locations where they' actually put an elevator to the top so that the you know service people are able to access easily H bu put you know bar on top but they do have like a structure well there is that the holler boock already has the open bar at top too yeah they do so so let's take across the street if they put something up on the roof would it count as another story or not because if there if there was already roof access there to make there he has I don't remember the floor plan right now if there is there cuz I don't see any structure right so I don't know have the access if it's just a Lether and you know an opening to access the is the conversation is the conversation about utilizing above the root the roof plate well they say you put a bar up there that count the bar Works inherently be above the roof plate and therefore be in in excess of the height restriction if if if the roof plate were in at the the height there will be another ceiling plate to give access to that area not if it's an open bar not if it's open if it's open there wouldn't be any any any Ro there is no other roof now an open bar how do we do you access an open bar well I mean if they go ahead unced there's no ceiling there's no ceiling it's uncovered yeah how do you access you have to have You' have to have an elevator you have to have an elevator staircase you have to have something they have one yeah but I think a I think a service ladder or even a service is very different than yeah what you're talking that's what I'm saying if there is pedestrian access if there is Ada access is there you know then you have you have another structure you know even if it's small if it's partial that would be the height if there's another ceiling place a service letters mean to the service person to be quite honest because very tight and uncomfortable I've seen some of those yeah well in some buildings you see the letter you know in the in the back right you can see those you access through the outside usually these ones that are this tall are going to have access inside there's a stairwell that somewhere goes up to the top there should be yeah and I probably counted it probably counted we have to check that yeah a good question I'm just being it seems kind of weird because you could have a building at the roof play like you're saying but the architect could put a I'm using the word steeple I don't mean as a church but they could have a steeple up there they could have some other decorative thing or just a peaked roof that could go higher than the 60 it doesn't count Prim you that doesn't count you're saying it doesn't count it doesn't count do count it's and it was on purpose we did not want it to count and you make a good point because the sunrust building downtown the Four Peaks up there which are made out of five I've been up there there is an elevator goes up to that Peak wow okay view it I've been up there yeah it's just a view yeah it's just well I mean there is an elevator to get up there but so the mall is also 60 well not also the mall is 60 ft High 60t yeah just so that you have some idea so let's talk about the height um staff at first proposed um the new height throughout the city to be at at least on the development corridors uniform to be 75 and then when we talked with the ldcc they felt comfortable with 60 ft um so we went to 6 fet for um OC C1 C2 i1 I'm sorry it wasn't 75 it was 70 um i1 I2 and P at 60 ft as opposed to what the Consultants had which was 35 which was completely a reduction from um the architectural standards that's in place today the building that's in front of the glass building is in front on Alf Trail in front of the old Publix how T is that building do we know oh across the stre from public I'm just using that as a basis yeah I'm not really more of a commercial M that's an office yes an office do we work do we worry about like the what's the height of the fire trucks ladder truck that we have now will that reach 60 ft oh yeah it'll go higher than that I believe it's the I think the highest height that we allow is 78 that's where that 78 number came from because the so the mall currently is at 78 60 ft you said yeah but the the maximum height that they could go is higher they built at 60 but they could go higher question is there there's no correlation between the number of structures you have at a certain height and the number of ladder trucks you need to service it is there a um I I I don't think so although this was a concern to have you know because then those buildings would have to be sprinkled well yeah that's what that's what I would like to know if the One ladder truck that we have can service additional High structures or else it would require us to buy a second one I don't know if there if there's a stand this the fire I I talked to the Chief and the assistant chief and he said that it's able to service that height that's why right but um at what percent so does it matter how many structures are at that height with that one truck see what I'm saying oh what what like do they need a second truck at if they have 100 buildings that are 65 ft tall versus 50 buildings I don't think so but I can check that's I'm curious there's probably a standard somewhere but we not agreements if we need another ladder truck they would bring in some simal or orange yeah yeah but remember no the strands didn't have any we were just talking about that right so that's that's my only my only I don't care about with the height it just I mean is there going to be a huge between 60 and 75 ft 15t well I know it's 15t I mean but buildable buildable space I mean is that will it make that big of a difference what was the reason for changing it did I miss that so changing it from to so 78 to 60 they didn't feel comfortable with the 70 78 um feet that staff was proposing um I don't remember them giving a reason um just that it was probably too high um how many stories approximately would go into the 60 ft did you say was four or five probably five so depends if it's a mixed use if it's office if it's commercial they right storts and all that regulating how high you can go a maximum height no we're not in one of the airport District yeah not one I'd really like to know why I agree rather than that's how they felt are you interested in staying at 78 I mean no I mean well there's a point no so there's a point the mall could support 78 ft no so so let's uh one thing is the target areas yeah right where we increase densities and intensities then there will be higher um height right this we're talking about to the rest of the city so the city already allows 60 um I think in and I don't remember exactly the conversation but we haven't used much of the 60 in the rest of the city right so I think they they did not feel the need to increase above so maybe un what is already there yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm tracking David though because the question is the previous recommendation was to shrink the size of a house so they can fit more houses on a lot and in this situation they want to reduce the allowable height that plus kind of kind of reverse that's what I'm saying it doesn't make sense red the proposed right that was staff's proposal which was at 78 um the Consultants put it back at 35 ft so 78 60 ft to day is for certain areas so the development corridors that we talked about you can go to 60 ft which is along mitchal hammock along St recommended 60 ft staff recommended higher Heights okay now the difference is is that this is not just along the development corridors it's anywhere any properties within those zoning districts I well I understand and so which would include the mall right yes the mall is under a different zoning district and it's going to be in the targeted area areas and we'll go over the target okay so this wouldn't include the mall that does not include the mall the mall is the um Gateway um okay these are just the proposal here was to increase from 35 to 60 so why did staff recommend 78 we recommended 78 it was because we wanted to see higher Heights um in some of the in the non-residential areas because we want to increase um the intensity of those areas U because we want to see the taller buildings is what we're looking to see in those non-residential areas so you disagree with the ldcc on 60 no we're okay with 60 as well oh it's it's still orig 35 by the consultant the consultant said 35 you guys said 78 so the consultant did not change right did not propose any change for the rest of the city um and um uh we already had the 6 for the corridors most probably those developments will occur in the corridors right so it they are now extending to 60 to the whole you know essentially just matching zoning so the Consultants what they did the typologies that we allow can go in any one of the zoning districts so office can go in any zoning districts Town Homes can go in any zoning districts um it it just depends right so when they moved it over from article 8 they just moved everything over they took out the height the height which Town Homes was 45 office and Commercial were 60 along the development corridors um and they just they removed all of that and just put everything at 35 MH so we're now saying not only on those development corridors but less increase the height for the non-residential um properties in those zoning districts so so the Consultants didn't have really a specific like methodology as to why they suggested 35 they didn't say it wouldn't be more visually aesthetic to the community or it was within reason where we're currently at now and they thought wanted to continue to see that and then in the community no I I don't even think I'm just curious I'm be nice no they didn't they didn't even think about that it was not even that discussion at all I think when they moved it over they did not pay attention to how they moved it over it just they just move was this considered to be a good consulting company like yes they typically are okay do you think it was but I don't think they paid attention to all the details in our code yeah do you think it was left off on purpose because I remember when Dave actually that presentation to us like two months ago or so and he had the pictures of downtown the the downtown area and there were some very tall buildings there we all were kind of a gas at it remember that and so this area what we're saying is whether it be 60 or 78 covers everywhere including that area no no doesn't include that area not the target are that is the target area and we going to discuss that's different that's different that is different I that's that's where I was going because I noticed that wasn't now in in general term can you show us a visual of these where these areas are on the map please I think that will solve some of this conversation so C2 is all the red let me go ahead and pull up the but it's also the um Legend here so C2 like Teresa said is going to be your red um hang on let me jump here real quick so we're looking at the c1c2 industrial okay so there's not a whole lot of C1 C1 is going to be this orange there's only a couple patches of it there's some in here it's it's a lot of C2 as you can see and then we really only have um we really only have one industrial core which is here um in between Gateway West and Mitchell hammock there's a a little bit of like Municipal industrial there's this little guy up here um but it's mostly this is the industrial and your red is the C2 and some of the orange and it's kind of this island over here but those are the sort of areas we'd be talking about what was that map you showed us a bit ago where we had the corridors you had outlin the corridors what was that one though so that's in the comprehensive plan I can find that too cuz that covered the downtown that's why I as the question that went through the downtown area the corridor map is what you're talking about yeah theed was kind of a that's M it's that's in the comp plan I'll make you guys nauseous if I scroll down there but now you're removing the height you know at the corridor we putting at the display we're not talking those areas for the most part okay so this is the corridor map and it shows Mitchell hammock here y so anywhere along here anywhere along there that's 434 all the way around uh you also have Broadway here yeah so so that so the downtown area is in that so that's what I'm confused at the downtown is here it's in the center it's right it's yeah it's right in the center of Broadway in 434 right yeah he's talking about the old downtown the old downtown area I'm talking about oh yes oh yeah but we do not have now a height for the for the development Corridor we don't have a height now for the development corri in the proposed in the proposed so that goes away is this is just showing the development Corridor but not the height to the development Corridor goes away this is the existing development Corridor and this is where the heights are 60 feet oh this is the existing yeah this is not they're not proposing this this goes away this goes away all right so the one that we're talking about is these areas but now it does not include the old down town area we are going to talk about the target areas right so what is the consensus of the 60 or 78 I mean I really don't care as far as the high difference I just wanted to know why I mean the only thing I think I got out of it was uniformity yeah with other so I mean it does make logical sense to me if we're trying to drive most of the people to the downtown core area we wouldn't want even bigger buildings outside of the downtown core area so it does make sense that you would at least keep it at 60 instead of going higher than the downtown core area that's the way I'm looking at it anyway I'm okay with keeping I 60 it is consensus okay we also have notes on the bottom of this um of that table so we added um maximum height for multif family we'll need to change that from 78 to um 60 right yeah mhm we also included that town hall lobs shall have a minimum area of ,800 square fet with a minimum lot width of 20 we wanted to make sure we added in some standard for that typology with the maximum height of 45 ft and then we also um wanted them to make sure they included stuff for Milton Square and there's a section that talks about setback so um when there's a conflict between setbacks and easements the easements shall Prevail so that was a comment that came in from our public works department so whenever someone has a setback that may be less than what the width of the easement is the easement prevails um so they will still have to go back beyond that easement okay and we also asked were you going to say something I was to say that it's also planned to have a transition if you're abing you know properties that have um single family homes that they you would have to you know put in steps so the maximum next to the you know the uh single family homes would be three stories and that's common to have in in different cities that you do some kind of transition right okay any other things with this table you need to go back to the Chart that's above this this one so the these are the excuse me the target areas and I think we're going to come back to this in part two that's basically the difference between part one part two is part two is all going to be the target stuff so we can just talk about it a little bit we the the Consultants instead of height they had a mixture of height and stories so one of the things that we wanted um them to do is to stick with either height or story so we prefer height ldcc prefers height um so they're going to make that change um feet yes so that's where currently it says like for the downtown mixed use it says eight stories there yeah so when they came when the Consultants came they did a presentation um for the ldcc they did a presentation for you all as well as for um Council and one of the things that they talked about was um making the height in the downtown the downtown the old downtown eight stories but when they came back to us um with the actual language it was um 35 ft so um we were everyone is like okay what happened happened what happened to the eight stories that you all promised um so that was where that came from there's a comment here that says uh previous conversation with the consultant discussed eight stories by right and a maximum of 12 with bonuses [Music] uhhuh yeah so that was the previous conversation it was eight stories by RI okay and but that's not what happened they came with um something different okay um which was less and in order to achieve the eighth you had to have a density bonus or um intensity bonus which you had to provide certain things to achieve the bonus so um they're aware of it we've already talked to them about it the Consultants okay and I think that's it for that table unless you all have other questions about it no the bonus was anything above eight stories comp plan does not regulate height it only regulates intensity and density so the Land Development code will regulate the height there was a point I'm May aity bonus was there bonus there's a density bonus in the comp plan and this code is going to regulate how that density bonus is achieved yes it's in it's going to be in both places but this is going to put the U meat on the bones of what's in the comp plan bonus no so in order to achieve the density bonus you have to have certain things um the certain things but but also you have go also you have to increase height for the density bonus to be able to happen right or or even the intensity because allow not only the the bonus to the increase of density right cuz we increase densi by right and then we provided additional density by if if you meet some criteria for the bonus so the only way so if let's imagine if you keep 35 ft you would not be able to to have many units right because the height will stop you from meeting the the density build to toity right so the depends on the geometry right depending how much land you have how much you know what are you doing so um we can tell you what is being proposed so we we we have to increase the dens it's 35 F feet would not you not meet the density and the new of the comp and if you wanted higher height you would have to meet the criteria for the um density bonus or intensity bonus so they were trying to tie um your height increase to an intensity or density bonus that's good or bad it's it's good it's either one but what was promised during their presentation was 8 by right and then if you want it to achieve higher it would have to be through the intensity and density bonuses section bonus were based on uh units per acre correct so even though we're talking about the geometry I guess it must work where if you have an acre of land and you have eight stories of height I'm guessing it's going to equal the amount that would qualify for a bonus and then they could add at least according to that you know a couple more stories onto it does that make sense does that make sense okay any other comments on this one uh we're gonna do it in part two part two yeah okay so let's go on to page 12 and we'll go through this kind of quickly this is the Pud [Music] section it's um b2d yeah that one um let's which one do you have okay b2d okay so this one we were deleting um this one is for open space so it says the organization shall be empowered to assess reasonable maintenance fees upon owners of real properties within the Pud for the maintenance of common open space so we're recommending that we delete that um it's confusing language so we um recommending that it's deleted I see the LBC want the keep it looks like I know that's what we're on here LCC are they talking so is this more talking about like tow houses and the condos scenario well not necessar because it could be a subdivision that's got common area yeah yeah this is for hormonal asso for the covenants it's but if there if you're buying a house that's already clarified in your the bylaws of the HOA when you so this is for the creation of the of the whole subdivision and the creation of the Covenant for the subdivision so the the ldcc is recommending that we keep the language I understand but I if if if a developer is building a a development and he wants to put in HOA going to have all these things already in there you're what I'm so this is this is we're imposing that language on them to begin with yeah they're already going to have it in there anyway most I would I think most developers would automatically put that in anyway so what you're saying is we should be silent on it let them worry about it exactly is and this the way I'm reading is we're imposing our opinion on on them but or could you could have go the other way and say you know say someone lives there and we don't have this in there because right now we're saying they're empowered to assess maintenance fees on the property owners if they choose to if they choose to if they choose to I think you read the sentence just before that yeah I think the oration respons maintenance yeah so if you want to if you want to if you want to set up an HOA assess that you have the right to I mean you have our our blessing but we're saying in sense for that you're are respons for it yeah the city's not going to take that over so so this this is a recommendation that you consider doing this well it's like uh like R HOA on Twin Rivers right we're responsible on Lockwood all the all the median and islands all along Lockwood that's our we pay for all that maintenance and we're assessed on that and and usually that's the case my point because I was the one right that said do we need to have this language it was just because it's something that we usually we did not enforce right we did not go to enforce you know so I thought we could get you know not have that language in the LCA I think what the the feeling was that it doesn't hurt to have it that's what I was just going to say so that's why for but if it's there and say someone has a lawsuit but someone else is whatever we can say look it was here that the organization was empowered to do this which I don't think we would go there anyway but you know we were trying to streamline the code say what are the things that we really you know should be regulating enforcing but I think the conclusion was that doesn't hardt to keep it so it's going to I kind agree with the LDC on this one yeah yeah yeah I'm I'm good I'm good with leaving it out with staff so leaving it out or leaving it in you got whatever y'all say that what do you want I'm the only one you guys seem to yeah okay in or out it doesn't matter to me I'll be hon leave it out leave it out there some onom over here leave it out okay so consensus was to go with staff staff's wanted it out we'll leave it that yeah I I I think I think we're just imposing too much right no it's just giving them says okay so go to H so there was a comment to delete this um streets or this was the comment from the LDC from a member from the LDC streets are often made private to actually not follow public Street standards this just imposes a private cost with no public benefit staff wants to keep this language in there and what happened was the ldcc decided to keep the language in there and um they amended it to say um you'll see the ad new private streets must meet the minimum standards for public streets requir improvements for new private streets not the existing we took out existing shall be the same as for public streets as to sidewalks and trees I agree with that I agree yeah I agree the next one is on page 13 what did you put in there LPA to keep say new language um 13 now if you all have any any changes on or recommendations or questions on on these Pages as we go just let me know because I'm just going to the ones where we had comments and it's been addressed so just just let me know so we're still in um the PED section um this is G yeah so it was the consensus um to remove the language about the density intensity bonus um it says a bonus to increase density or intensity may be granted to a PUD for utilizing Innovative designs to preserve open space and conservation areas promote internal traffic attainment promote pedestrian and mass tra um Transit modes of transportation as provided for in the comprehensive plan um there's we have a section already for um the density and intensity bonus so we're going to make sure that this section complies with that section which is um I think it's section 14.4 it maybe in section five but we're we're removing that so we were okay with removing that language I agree makes sense is there a consensus for that yes okay next one is on page 13 I [Music] for so this language we're removing because it was um a little confusing so it says the provision of usable open space privacy finestra roof line placement and design of Windows and Doors access to light and air that was confusing preservation of natural vegetation Landscaping pedestrian and vehicular access surface water management pedestrian plazas and other similar attributes consistent with sound application of Urban Design principles and practices which impact lock configuration building layout and arrangement of open space so we um recommended as well as ldcc um removing that language about privacy finra a roof line I'm good leaving it out it's good it's gone I agree the next one is on page 15 uh three yeah reuse water um we're recommending deleting this as well um PUD shall locate within a reused water service area where such system is not yet available such facilities must be available concurrent with the impact generated by the Pud provided according to the development agreement and cons seal development plan so this was the ldcc who wanted to delete this language so we were saying that if you had a PUD they had to be an area where you had reclaimed water is that what I'm understanding reuse water reuse water the same that's reclaim it's for irrigation irrigation if it's a planned unit development it um had to locate within a a reuse water service area what does that and it says it we have I guess different Water Service reuse water service areas so where the lines are not available yet then it had to be concurrent with the impact generated by the Pud so once the Pud was built out had to have um some type of reclaim water reclaim water because not all areas of the city have reclaim reclaim water accessibility you could put when available that would make more sense right so how would it read what are you proposing the is it is it located somewhere else in this one I'm saying that you're just saying where available here it's saying it's got to be you got to be concurrently install it while the Pud is being built so there's an article in Our Land Development code that has some different language as well with reuse so our staff is saying okay well make it consistent with the other section of our code where it's already listed so we can go there it's um yeah so as long as is this consistent with that that language in the other part of our code article 16 M and if it's already there which I'm going to go to it let me see what it says so it says um if if an existing reclaimed water system is within 100 feet of a new development the development shall connect to the existing reclaimed water system augmentation of all non- reclaimed water irrigation systems and reclaimed water is prohibited unless approved by the city engineer or design and then it does allow for alternative um water irrigation so the following types of alternative Water Irrigation are permitted within the city additional types of alternative Water Irrigation are prohibited unless approved by the city engineer or design so it allows storm water irrigation shallow water well irrigation and surface water irrigation so they're saying we're saying if you're going to delete it fine just make sure it's consistent with with this section I can't hear you I don't know wouldn't we want people using reclaimed water versus drinking water for irrigation so we do not allow um um it has to be reused has to be or well right we do not allow the the regular water system to irrigate but we already allow you know in other sections of the code to have you know either storm um U storm water irrigation no that'll make sense I'm talking about the other one the one that we were going to strike why were we striking it so are you do you want to leave it in there and just say that this section must be consistent with article 16 that's what I would say yeah okay okay that's just what I can you in there yeah so keep language and add article 16 language yeah it's on the notes again to you might they may not be consistent talks if it's not available and here we can do this says it has to be available right ex by definition they're not consist so we have to make it consistent just make consist and may consistent with article 16 yeah then if if as long as the other one is convinent you really don't need this that's I guess what we're saying I well it's the two don't match and there's really no way to makeing consistent because the other one says you should have it but if you don't have it then you could do this this one says you have to have it yeah I don't know how you make those two consistent yeah yeah so I mean I think I in my opinion deleting this probably makes more sense because you are cover in the other one cuz it says you have you have used recycle reclaim but if you can't get it then here's some alteros so this says you can't do it without reclaimed so they're just they're just inconsistent no way to no way to get the two consistent lot so I think that's probably why they want want to strike it this may go more than four hours so what is the consensus making it consistent with the other it consistent with the other one Artic okay I think we all agreed with that okay also in five on traffic improvements can you click on the Gras the section that we're deleting right there five go down to five right there so this language is the grass medium may be required on any collector roadway or a specific segment thereof that language we're recommending deletion because it's not needed and then under that six is all six the street lighting and signage it's already provided for in article 16 as well so we're recommending deleting that that works is that a consensus from the LPA y it's consensus good okay page 15 utility lines number 13 click on that okay so this one is to create a definition for utility lines um not limited to water sewer Cable telephone electric gas Etc so we're asking them to create a definition for what it means so it says all utility lines shall be placed underground but it doesn't talk about what it means so we want them to create a definition is there a consensus yep y yes okay now we're going to get into the targeted areas which is on page 18 so the targeted areas includes the U Marketplace future land use designation Gateway West core West Mitchell hammock Road future land use designation downtown transition um as well as downtown core so you'll see um the different zoning districts that they have to match so it's the West Mitchell hammock Corridor Gateway West core Marketplace Downtown neighborhood mixed use District Central Avenue um by the way the ldcc recommended the change from mixed use Corridor um to mixed use District Central Avenue um as well as um well we have downtown mix district is that the final name downtown mix District I think since this uh per the table we shorten it to downtown core instead of down mix use district and just Central a basically just getting rid of mud across the board calling it Central Avenue district downtown neighborhood downtown core sort of the these um changes were made out after uh more recently than than this was this has not been completed so we'll have to go through and make those changes as well we wanted to short the board wanted to shorten up some of those names and it was kind of confusing as well so we they kind of TI them differently um but when we look at the targeted areas you're going to see different standards um you'll see the general standard um that's there for um the targeted area so what we did here is we removed a lot of D duplications um that's stated in A1 you'll see that we've already talked about what the um districts are number one is the repeat of what's already above so we went through and we deleted a lot of the duplications and then we also clarified that detached single family um uses are discouraged in the targeted areas which they are except for the downtown neighborhood we clarify that detached single family homes are pro are prohibited in the downtown mixed use District um and we also need some visual aids with the targeted areas so that's another thing that we we need U so you'll see in um two detached single families are prohibited and the downtown mixed use and existing daat single family homes are legally non-conforming so we added that what what does that mean when you say it's legally non-conforming if there's an existing house that they don't have to do anything they're just not conforming with current standards is that what we're saying yes grandfather the grandfather for certain things things right so go ahead am I so you do not want single family homes in the targeted area no not detached no Nu because this is an area um that we increase intensities and densities to to have you know not to have single the that single family and that goes back to that discussion with Urban 3 right that these are the areas that we we will welcome growth and a more efficient use of the land so what would happen if on that map that you were just showing up there that would see like the downtown the old downtown the a veto on the park and that sort of thing yeah in that area so if somebody had a house there existing house and it burned down it was non-conforming they wanted to rebuild their house so there are protections for that if the there is a a section of the Cod that talks about um non-conforming situations so it was an act of God or something emergency that you know you can rebuild the house you cannot increase the nonconformity so you could you sell the property and someone else rebuild the house or now that has changed hands to somebody else would that be like okay now you can't do it anymore because I think I think so single so there are the code has some protections for that case right for of course I mean if the the land is more if it burns down if it's more valuable for another use you probably sell right emotional connection but yes but you're protected that is to protect you know in general with illegal nonconformity it's just to not expand that yeah it you kind of just get that special privilege to have whatever it is yeah okay so on page 18 a so B bay windows there was one yeah um there was a request to replace with um inset or projecting Windows there so this is building articulation each facade that faces a street must include projections or recesses such as a front porch front stoit bay window building recesses or other features to prevent a flat um facade or overall boxy shade can you clarify what a projection window is it's a a big window it's a it's a projection right sticks out that comes out just the window or the recess door something to make it yeah window no that one so the little that this would be yeah that that would be yeah is yeah so as staff we don't agree with that um that came from one of the DCC members um they had a we had a lengthy discussion about the targeted areas um we um do not necessarily agree with everything um with what was discussed at the ldcc this one in particular um Dr Kaa is saying that she doesn't agree with it she's our resident expert because she's the architect so um for us that bay window um being a projecting we're we don't agree with it so no I would I would put like a picture window more of a solid window you know kind of this almost like a display window doesn't it just really kind of matter on the architecture of what you're trying to accomplish building wise yeah that too I mean is this aociated from the right you don't want want window a farmhouse type house I wouldn't somebody has their mindset on something it says such as these are just examples all the we we we'll have to revise that because um my understanding in either I miss something um we have art article eight that gives the architectural standards and usually today how it is is that we have um articulation you know requirements and the a whole range of there's a list of things that you can pick and we say primary facade has to meet three architectural standards but we do not dictate you know a list because then you are designing right we do not want to design for the so we wanted to give so you have so you're trying to avoid um um uh blank blank walls and boxy you know type of of constructions but how you achieve the articulation is part of the whole design so we do not want it to have you know a limited list so I we may have missed that one but we have to uh revisit that so that'll be everything is in the AR stands and we have a lot of questions ourselves about um the targeted areas as well like um there's another comment only one articulation element what happens to facades that are visible from the RightWay but do not f face the right away and so and then they also have a standard that talks about in three that 60% it says in the DM and mud CA the building or buildings must account for 60% of the lot Frontage of the primary Street Frontage that says if there is more than one street Frontage this requirement only applies to one of the frontages deviations are subject to section 2.7 it doesn't say 60% of what so um we have questions ourselves about it I don't know if you all had questions as well about this section it's confusing a little bit yeah we know it's is very confusing yeah FR okay let's go to block did you have any more to say about this I guess I guess what you're trying to do there you're trying to determine yeah like it says you got one street you got side street you got one says even three side got second got house on the corner house on the corner yeah yeah that mean that technically that would be two fronts correct yeah okay that's what I mean it's it's kind of it's confusing for me okay so then they're also introducing um the block perimeter which is on page 19 and we understand the purpose of the block perimeter it um it it's supposed to provide the smaller block sizes it should provide a network for um to support pedestrian bicycle and Transit different Transit modes of travel so we understand that um but we need some kind of visual aid with it we're going to need some kind of visual aid to determine what this should look like um can you click on public or so we added in public or semiu so it says sites must be divided into one or more blocks including Civic public or semi it said Civic we deleted Civic and put public or semi-public space in open space um because it doesn't have to be public it could be semi-public um [Music] so that was a comment and then easements where it talks about easements what was the comment there easements do not Define blocks tracks also do not Define blocks because they're trying to Define blocks with easement so we have questions about can you really use easements to Define these blocks so it was just as confusing to us as it is to you all and we have to imp imagine us I know says do Define it you're saying somewhere else says they do [Music] not well and some of those um standards are great principles right to new development but with us we have to find you know what is the good principle that is enforceable right that we can put in a daily daily you know um routine and also in in a city that has already can you a set of parcels defined right so we do not have so it's going to be hard you know to um require mandatory you know block you know um uh interruptions which is really a a block is defined by street right you know in so we we're trying to kind of redefine that and refine thats to be able to be enforceable here as well as boundaries boundaries do not Define blocks either so we have questions for the Consultants on on how they're defining the block parameter okay so let's go to 19e um where it says passages must U be a minimum of 10 ft [Music] wide yeah that one so the question is does this include trees it says passages must it should be be a minimum of 10 feet wide with a minimum 5 foot unobstructed and ADA Compliant public walkway I'll leave a must B just add B it's right there no you have to Reber one oh it's it's proposing yeah so we we want to get clarification on if this includes trees okay the next one is G access two says new curb cuts to Central Avenue Mitchell hammock Road oo Boulevard and Broadway Street are discouraged and are not allowed when a development site has Ingress egress locations available to side streets ideally only one curb cut at the midpoint of each block shall be allowed except for where this requirement results in unsafe or inefficient site circulation so the the um question is if you click on it says clarify the intent developments are required to have at least two access points today would we like to maintain that access point requirement so that's a question for the LPA as well do we want to maintain today any um development over 50 units required to have two 50 units 5 Z required to have two access points today the one that's being built right now over there where uh sounds Central we it came to us I don't know within the last year I forget it had three access points right and you know I'm talking it's uh it's on Central by the town H the town H yeah yeah that's on the east side of central yeah was three access points I know they wide the road there I see it for one but I remember when we sat at the meeting here there was a central one across from I think High Street and then two others on opposite ends of it which one is that one I think you're were talking about chelonian it's on um is it right across from Hillcrest yeah it has it has three access points on the on the central but nothing in the rear or well it has a pedestrian correct yeah so that three right M so it was considered I'm trying to equake that of my mind to what we're reading here so what we want is a minimum of two so the more the better the more the better because it's more it connects more but also that one actually we counted as they did not have enough because they were so if you're if we ac see the same road you know very close then it's I'm fine with that it said no new curve Cuts well here we making it so yeah that one provided a a pedestrian and multimodal access to a it on the park because that what we wanted this additional you know so clarify intent like clarify it m so the third one is um direct pedestrian access shall be provided from the principal entrance of the building to the sidewalk on the closest public RightWay and the question is will this result in dumping of large amounts of traffic onto two-lane residential streets so that's another thing we want the Consultants to clarify talk about pedestrian access is pedestrian access that one mm oh not traffic right oh it's not traffic right I think I think you read the the comment from another uh no this is the one it might we might have misread it ourselves oh okay cuz they're talking about pedestrian access M and that was the discussion that we have in the LCA mm so we're talking about the people walking will it result in on to two lane residential streets I did not understand was the comment from staff that doesn't make sense no I think we misread it yeah we probably did what we probably misread it okay so the next one is on parking and we want it's a bunch of clarifying the intents uh 19h parking is says surface and structured parking areas shall be accessed from a secondary street from an adjacent property joint access easements and shared use agreements necessary or from rear alleys if any of these are available are proposed as part of the development it's it's a bunch of clarify your in the intent and then three we added new language which said which says consistent with Section 13.5 all striped on street parking spaces contiguous with the property line May count towards the minimum onsite parking requirements but will be accessible for the general public as well so we want to make sure that it's not just set aside for that particular development that it is also even though you can count it as part of the minimum um parking requirement it still has to be available for the general public yes is there a consensus for that language I'm yeah I think so okay all right the next one is on page 20 single family it's B go to B yeah that one is okay so we are recommending deletion of of the languages there click on specific use standards for target areas so we have a comment here that all Street walls should have a minimum two foot setback from the right away so it talks about um single family developments new or single family redevelopments are subject to the following setbacks and general Provisions we deleted A and B which says the front loaded single family developments a 20ft minimum setback it's already covered um front loaded garages shall have a recess a 5 ft from the principal facade of the house front and then we kept front loaded we added front loaded garages shall make up no more than 50% of the width of the ground floor facade of the house and that's because we don't want um the garages to be more than 50% of the facade of the house because you don't want to see like a snout house you don't want it the garage to be bigger than the rest of the house so I mean we can reduce I think today Teresa what's the percentage for the garage for um 20% front loaded no more than 20% oh no 50% that's that's that's the same as today so we can keep it at 50 we can reduce it um we're okay with keeping it the same that it is today that's fine okay you check out A and B Because those same things were in the chart we looked at the very beginning so we want to change anything that still stands it's the same okay we did remove the front porches must be a minimum of 8 ft deep from um the second portion um but that is we don't believe anyone should tell someone how deep their front porch should be because it doesn't make sense so we remove that language and then under 20b uh specific use standards for Target area number two Auto Repair Car Wash so this is for for um it says all principal and accessory structures used for automobile service shall be located and constructed in accordance with the following requirements um bay windows shall be located on the side of a rear of the building and shall be screen click on screen from the street so the ldcc was to get clarification if it's a street wall or if it's screening um so it says screen from the street by a street wall a minimum of 3 ft and a maximum of 5 ft in height walls greater than 3 ft in height above grade should be no more than 50% solid so does it have to be a wall or can it be a landscape um to the point where it's um at least 50% solid that was the question so how does the LPA feel about that if it and this is for Auto Repair so we're talking about the screening now about Auto rep talk about is a business you're just talking about repairing your own car right no this is a business this is like a garage this is like a repair garage so like a Valvoline place with three Bays they'd have to put some kind of a wall so you couldn't see through it right it has to be at least 50% solid to the side or to the rear in the chart that we looked at in the very beginning when we were the permissible and non permissible there was an auto repair thing I thought that wasn't in fuel service was not even pered in the downtown one other area so this is if it's allowed and we can go to the permissible uses table let's look up Auto Repair yeah it's almost towards the land kind of towards the beginning it's under a motor vehicle it's there so yes Auto Repair is allowed as a special exception and I don't know what zoning District okay so okay so C2 it's allowed as a special exception is that C2 or C1 but that that's not and then it's also allowed under is that Gateway West and it's also West Mitchell hammock can you go over so it's not the target it's not it's not the target area it's the target area no the targeted area is the downtown it is on this side where it starts from downtown all are Target are I was thinking the other way but yeah well it's not it is in the Target area it's in Gateway West and West m h right yeah but it's not under the but it's not under the downtown it's not the downtown central Avenue no area it's not the core the downtown core in the downtown transition okay let's go back to the screening so now we take a look at the screening and those areas where it's a special exception use order and the question is can they use landscaping or does it have to be a wall and then what kind of wall right right that's the question right yeah it needs to clar be clarified can a wall be a fence as I guess as long as it's 50% solid with landscape well but if fence wall walls are walls fences are right I know could be a vinyl fence they have to they have to clarify that's the thing see if you call a wall we have to set wall or fence because wall for us is a is a a you know breake or concrete or whatever it's not fence take it clear it's more permanent right than than a fence okay and then drive through facilities click on drive through the yellow um ldcc consensus that this needs to be consistent with the permissible uses table so wherever um so it says drive-through facilities are Auto oriented and therefore prohibited in the downtown miuse MCA and downtown districts drive-throughs are discouraged from located within the Gateway West West Mitchell hammock and U Marketplace however one drive-thru Lane um per use may be allowed through this um especially exception process and subject to the following standards so those air they would have to go back they're telling the consultant to go back look at the permissible usage table and where we are allowing um drive-through facilities let's go to the permissible we are allowing in the in the downtown core for banks you have Banks yeah oh I when you said drive-through facilities it said more most Auto I'm assuming like oil change no no it's drivethru facilities this is any kind of drive and restaurant McDonald's Burger King it could be a Starbucks so banks are allowed in as a special exception in with the drive-thru in the downtown core West Mitchell hammock Corridor let's look at restaurant I think a restaurant is not allowed let's make sure it is yeah as a special exception in the Gateway West we certainly fought and the Mitchell um West Mitchell hammock and Marketplace oh not in downtown not in downtown okay that's okay that's fine but banks are allowed in downtown core right yeah so let's go back so they'll have to make those zoning districts consistent with the table and then these are the standards for drive-through so drive-thru facilities shall not directly access an Ari [Music] Road let's review McDonald's case at Chapman okay we'll because that one is not in the Target the number of access points to public streets shall be minimized this may be accomplished through the provision of a joint driveway access from adjacent sites driveth through lanes and windows shall be located along the rear side or rear of the buildings away from Street frontages click on frontages yeah usually a drive-thru Lane wraps around a building and then adequate queuing spaces shall be provided for drive-through windows and order stations in compliance with the city code the code has to provide a clear standard in the proper area absolutely vehicular use areas including drive-throughs must be screened by a street wall brakes may be permitted in a street wall to provide pedestrian access to the site and for the purpose of Treet prot protection Street wall shall be a minimum of 3 feet and a maximum of 5T in height walls greater than 3 ft in height above grade shall be no more than 50% solid so those are the standards for your drive-through facilities and it's any drive-through facility in the targeted area Okay and then we have convenience store type two and again there's a comment about the street wall here and that was to make it consistent with the same street wall because we need to know the type of street wall personal storage personal storage here we did change this in the second um Article 4 um for this one personal storage the only way we are allowing it in um the targeted areas is if there's retail on the bottom because we want to make sure we have that use that's going to attract people um these facilities don't typically attract people they will have to comply with the architectural standards but we want that vibrancy of people being able to come in shop do whatever they need to do but the bottom floor cannot be associated with the um the personal storage on the top level so we do have that in part two and then industrial uses um click on the okay and this is we're trying to say make consistent with the light industrial that's allowed for in the comprehensive plan light industrial uses allowed for the comprehensive plan okay okay did you all have any questions about that no no okay so then downtown mix use district is going to have the same all these target areas are going to have the same type of language so I'm just downtown mixed use District that's the same thing as you were calling CA DC DC oh DC downtown cor okay what was the area we just G through overall Target we just read through what was I can't hear you I'm what was the area before what was the he's asking what area what was the B was a Target area oh B was any use in the targeted areas specif specific uhhuh those are specific uses okay and then this one is the the downtown mixed use District it's going to have the intent and purpose so this one is going to have the same as what we saw before um the different block size the street requirements the furniture Zone it's going to have all of that in in this one in each one of the targeted areas the cross block passage and basically the same comments more clarification yes so we're going to move on to um part two do you all need a break you don't want a break five minut have another hour or two to go hours do you we might go after seven so you said the the next the the next section is going to be maybe half of the pages that it's going to be the same article but maybe half or so of pages break together yeah so you have probably another two hours two more hours left she said that would be like 8 8:30 she did say that she did she did she did I thought said 7:30 I thought it was 5:30 really 730 I think it's it's casual for 7:30 said it's going to be long 7 okay me too let me just interesting things I'll tell you all about should yeah no kiding have we have we got from change gears on the mobility fee have we got anything Jonathan Jonathan on the change to the LDC on the concur section you given us that yet no i s I sent you the ordinance you did okay so put that yeah and I'm working on that now actually I was working on it before I came here so that when we can get that out I have to that one as well I we're close to that at least so we done Mr working now has he signed it yet it's his fault he hired to do it been a long time here this [Laughter] even though the room says city council private are you so we're in the home stretch on the mobility FEI right there's not a lot left de says she's still waiting on the the markup to the concurrency management I we I need to provide a section on the or if he has I haven't seen the vest we need to think about the V how are we going to structure the vest but um jul said that she also received an email was go outou there's a meeting so so far we have five consensus so good see all of us okay I left Tamp I literally left Tamp drove straight here man that's a day did you interrupt recording yeah that's crazy she can't she can't interrupt it it's still recording okay we're back on okay so we're going to go to page 12 unify control B actually there dedicated we're talking about here open spatial either be private reserved for common use or dedicated to the public and then we added the language if the city elect to accept the dedication because the city um we had a discussion with public works and they're not sure if they want it to be dedicated to the city so we added language to say um if the city elects to accept the dedication of the um open space I can't hear you I'm sorry is is that a el you don't want oh have white elephant gifts but it's not necessarily one you don't want sometimes it's [Music] a and then now on page um 13 is there is there a consensus for that language by the way okay y LPA consensus and then on page 13 C1 properties designated p on the official zoning map yeah so properties designate this is for development agreements and as you um you've heard we were talking about how sometimes the Pud development agreement expires a lot of times there's an expiration date and then when they want to build something on the new property um because there's no development agreement in place they have to create a new PUD and they did that with um the daycare that's off of Winter Springs Boulevard the Pud expired uh so there was no standards in place so they had to come back and do another development agreement and conceptual development plan so um this language which is it says properties designated on PUD on the official zoning map for undevelop properties designated PUD on the official zoning map the development agreement shall be approved as provided in article 3 article three is where we said that if um the when the da the development agreement sunsets and there's vacant land then it will revert to the an established zoning District so in the da now now we're going to put in there um language that when it when it sunsets that it has to have an established zoning District that it will sunset to if it's not developed because we talked about how long had to be before a p expired or whatever didn't we talk about that we did we had a conversation on how long PUD some today we're not establishing an expiration date on puds um but we talked about establishing the expiration date on the puds um because especially when there is a vacant property and there is an expiration date you want to make sure there's something in place and a lot of times we have standards that change um the Land Development code like today is changing so you have if you have a um PUD that has a DA that does not expire we may have better standards that we want to apply to it but because it's stuck with that da um they have no they can continue with that same type of development that was approved in the da so we're now saying that um they're going to Sunset and when it sunsets and there's a develop undeveloped vacant parcel that it will sunset to it will um then comply with a specific zoning District so we're saying to oh go ahead so we we are putting um a planning Horizon to the development agreement so it's not really an expiration because if you developed then you should be you know the the standards should be valid but if you're vacant and you do not have a you know let's say the The Horizon was for the Pug to be complete in 10 years so if it's 20 15 years years after the fact we are still you know building to those standards that doesn't make sense well example be that building in Altamont that's been under construction for decades oh yeah so so we saying it it every development agreement will have a planning Horizon and if you go beyond then it has to revert and it's vacant it reverts to whatever you know a zoning you know that's assigned in the da that's assigned D okay so is the board okay with that okay I'm good okay so page 14 H open space ratio we um it says the minimum percentage of open space shall be it used to be 30 %c the consultant pushed it to reduced it to 20% um but our comp plan requires 25% so there's a minimum 25% for the comp plan so we changed it um to 25% the board is okay with that yep as it meets it's concise with the other one okay so on page 15 um 05 this is for we're in the planned unit development section [Music] still so we deleted this language requires it says commercial and office uses within a residential P shall be limited in size and scope compatible with service needs related to residential demands generated within the Pud such commercial and office activities Shall Serve a market oriented to retail and service demands and needs of a surrounding neighborhood any allocation above a minimum demand to serve residential land uses within a residential planed unit development shall be based on regional market demand the burden to demonstrate Regional demand is placed on the applicant of the proposed development demonstrated by the developer in a study prepared by professional economists commercial Realtors or site location planners this location this um language it's old language that we don't um enforce it requires a market demand study um if the commercial or office exceeds neighborhood but today um with our puds our comp plan limits the maximum commercial or office in a residential PUD so it can't exceed that anyway um so we believe that our comp plan is already um already puts a limit on Commercial and office needs in a residential area so we're proposing to delete that um LC's consensus was also to delete how the bfield I'm good with that is there a consensus okay okay I'm gonna try to go faster okay so page 16 seven open space we delet it we deleted landscape Furniture we don't require landscape Furniture um on the this is for the conceptual development plan um this is a plan that comes associated with the development agreement so it says open space and Landscape Furniture open space and Landscape Furniture including open plazas walkways possible use of functional and aesthetic paving material Street benches waste disposal receptacles and sidewalk plantings shall promote the Pud Urban Design and Aesthetics so we don't require landscape Furniture so we removed everything that was related to landscape Furniture um Street benches waste all that so we deleted that is that consensus I agree agree okay page 16 utility lines number 13 we already already talked about that oh we did talk about that you're absolutely right thank you for that um um page 17 we talked about the um expiration okay and we talked about expired puds just so that you all have an idea I will show you the expired puds just so that you have an idea of what we're talking about because they have to go through and put in the different zoning districts and these expired PS yeah oops okay so you'll see yeah well clicking the in the in the in the mode of um in the screen in the screen just the little the little guy down there the little guy I'm afraid I'm going to Lo it okay so you have you have Live Oak Reserve here you have a sanctuary you have River Oak's Reserve these are all expired Waverly Woods Kingsbridge um oo Park Town Homes Le Park builtmore we have ARB um Chapman I'm so glad cuz I can't see it Chapman grov yeah Chapman Gres and then you have little creek yeah canabar Retreat is is expired as well yeah and built more this is built more so you'll see those and so we're telling the consultant to create zoning districts for these expired puds because there's a lot of them okay let me give this back and they were they were proposing in no City no City Zoning in in a non-conforming section did not accept that no and we'll get to that in another meeting the no City Zoning that they were proposing and it's um a little paragraph that says once it expired it has a no City Zoning they'll have to come back in and um do a zoning change so we said no to that okay so then we have on page oh my God go see it's the back and forth thing there you go okay so page 18 U mobile home District Mobile Home Park District we already removed that zoning district from permissible usage table so we're deleting it from here is there a consensus for that yes y yes okay and then page um 20 it's going to be the same type of language we need um visuals um they didn't use the acronyms correctly so we need this the same type of information in the targeted areas so I'm not going to go through the targeted areas I'm going to go now so we can skip that that way I'll go back quicker because we've already gone through it give me one second okay so yeah page 28 so this is a density and intensity bonus for public benefit um this is the language that is in our comprehensive plan that talks about um density and intensity bonuses it lists certain um things that you can get a density intensity bonus for so the Land Development code now is going to because at our last meeting when we talked about density and intensity bonuses you all wanted a guideline so this is like the guideline this is um it should be more than a little more than a guid line but this is going to talk about what you get a density and intensity bonus for so um you'll see that we added language to this that talks about the density and intensity bonuses must be in excess of the minimum comprehensive plan and Land Development code requirements or mitigation techniques so it can't you can't um double dip you can't um be required to have something and then get um a density bonus for it so you'll see affordable Workforce housing um is one of the criteria so we're telling the Consultants that we need to have um a a better measure on how to calculate this what Ami stand for aage medium average medium income so we need some kind of math to encourage um each option so we need more details here is what we're asking for for affordable Workforce housing Green [Music] Building so we're not deciding anything those bonuses right now yeah we need more information on this it's I don't know how the board feels do you feel we need more information I think we need more information I think it's a little vague and okay so let's put LDC L LP need more information they need a green building we also have in our comp plan where um we allow for storm harvesting and low impact Landscaping they limited it to just Green Building um so we're telling them they need to expand it to include storm water harvesting um low impact Landscaping as well and to add some criteria for it so we want them to broaden it Beyond just the lead um and then ldcc they want to change the um title from Green Building to sustainability to um incorporate not just Green Building but those low impact um landscaping and storm water harvesting type um things so how does LPA feel about that well people know what that term means I you talk about Green Building I think pretty much people know what that is I was going to say the same thing yeah but do we have to Define what that means simp place that it includes lead plus other stuff we do need to Define it thank you that's yes yeah I mean it's sounds good but I think most people would recognize Greenhouse Green Building much more I think the thing is is that we don't want to just limit it to that building right we have to be green development I mean is that well it these are terms that the that um developers and Engineers are familiar with what about but cons sustainability what about just conservation or something why does it have to be the word green or sustainable something in terms of conservation it's more than the building is designed to allow air flow to come through it's not really conserving I mean maybe conserving energy in that regard but to reduce the HVAC expenses it's it's not preserving right conservation gives the the intent of of preserving what is there this is this is to bring sustainable practices you're going to say something I just said Green Building and and sustainability yeah they can just more sustainable practices yeah dead dead too oh did you we can share yeah do you have a up can you go to that policy is it so we're looking at the comp plan toed Green Building or other recognized practices to enhance sustainability including renewable energy recycling storm water harvesting and electric vehicle charging stations so is sort of more words to what you're saying David yeah yeah the other one just what they mentioned too I just feel more people are going understand what Green Building means Bute yeah that's maybe nitpicking I don't know I don't know how many people are going to be reading that so that's the other thing nobody goes Z let me read that unless you're into it well this is for density bonus so this is not for every single application it's it's a specific but let me tell you a lot of people will read that those who want the the additional units trying oh yeah I get that but like the average the average person is not going to read that I totally be reading it if it's going to apply to what I need to do if I'm a builder that's going to affect my building and my project absolutely I'm going to read it so what is the consensus of the board do you want to expand it um staff wants to expand it because the comp plan allows for more than just green buildings I'm good with expanding it but I think we as long as we Define what it you know completely agree so do you want to title it something different than sustainability whatever you guys like that works not pretty good basically yeah that sounded pretty good or other i title it the comp everybody and put what portion of the comp what descri copy it can you copy it okay sounds good okay so um page 28 which is the density and intensity okay so we're at publicly accessible plazas yeah go [Music] down okay so there's a percentage here um so it says please create a table to show the percentages to achieve 100% of the bonus so we need a table ble to show how you can achieve 100% of the bonus there because it doesn't show it so that was staff's comment the board is okay with that yes CU we have to be more prescriptive right makes sense because um you're going to have developers who are going to try to use it it may try to take advantage but we want to put um some more some more prescriptive language in here so that we know and this section of the um code um has to be implemented with a development agreement and it has to be adopted it goes through LPA but it also goes to city council as well to memorialize whatever density bonus um or intensity they get okay so let's go to H and this is um preservation of a historic structure so the language that we added into age this is um you can see for the purpose of this code and reference documents and a historic building is defined as a building or structure that is individually listed on the national register of historic places or a contributing property in the National register of historic places listic District or designated as historic prop property under an official Municipal County special district State designation law ordinance or resolution either individually or as a contributing property in a district for determin eligible by the Florida state historic preservation officer for listing in the National register of historic places either individually or it's contributing property in a district or and then this is the part that we added built prior to 1920 and determined significant by the city council so we need um consens built before 1920 why couldn't the city council just decide a building is significant for some reason but it was built in the 40s well I was yeah I was going to say do we have any buildings built in 1920s we do have um buildings built prior to 1920 we do I was going to say we knocked I thought we knocked them all down already the one thing is that we don't know how to determine if it's significant or not but this came in as a comment from um from someone else the 920 well that language I'm just wonder about the date couldn't city council decide that building is significant to the city I'm sorry what was the question I said I'm just questioning that why we have to have the date there because we got all these different things I get that but what if within the city the city council determines a building is historically significant for some reason you know but it might not have been built as early as 1920 I mean I tend to agree yeah because um Mid Century architecture is also it's this is new language oh this is all new this is new language new yeah I would take out the bill that's me I'd take out the bill part 1920 just let the city council deter or put uh and or oh you can do and or do the and or well but it's it's it's um so it would have to I wanted 920 and the determined or it canot cannot only be prior to 1920 yeah that's what I'm trying to say it has to be here it has to be right no I know but here it says prior to certain date2 and determined by city council cannot only be and or right if it's prior to 1920 automatically is yeah so what's the standard for the National Registry there be a oh I see what you're you know so what's their standard well it says there the for eligible by Florida State historic preservation so what's their minimums what's their their threshold it used to be that is probably more strict more strict right yeah I I maybe we should just match their definition we but that U we already locally we can we can think of different things that are historic for oido that that's not that doesn't meet the state criteria that's why I think it would be nice for C to be that is because we already me we're referencing them in the first section well if they are then they already yeah but there are properties that are old here that are not on the National Registry but the city might decide but the city might decide that is important yeah so you want to just leave it up to the city council I'd leave it up to the city counc so you just take out the 1920 just take out the 192 take out the 1920 then yeah yeah again there is mid-century pretty good or determined by the significant City just determined by give city council that option them have it I think that proba makes sense them has so cross out built prior to 1920 put as deter oh it doesn't show it oh just put in the comment okay and that is it okay I think that's it and go down to specific res yeah let me just look at the let me just go to the um the one that has the retail on the bottom oh Multiplex let me just explain Multiplex U Multiplex is the um mixture of typologies of three to eight dwelling units per acre so um it's uh this is a new typology that we're introducing to the code and it's for the missing middle type homes that we talked about already I'm sorry why why is it per acre it should not be per acre but they were the ldcc was confused on whether or not it was intended to be per acre or if it was just eight a 12 eight 12 Val units in the lot what is a what's an example of a multilex so aoi blanks yeah so we we start to see now um four plexes for instance so you have a lot um so it's a larger lot in Winter Park Orlando has a couple of them and you have a driveway accessing to you know garages so let's imagine two uh attached homes and um in a lot um but they are four you know so the it's a fourplex for a lot but they could be um um it's it's four units or eight units in a lot it could be a small building with four units like a small multif family it could be you know like a grouped like Town H home so attached so they could have different configurations but you start to see more of those and this is again it's densifying in a smaller you know what's that we can revisit the table that three days St before quadx would be you see them in Winter Park sometimes in Orlando I it's not the well no yeah that's not a good example let's not show The Good The Bad examples right let's show the good examples this is this is not this is not really this is more like a town home Winter Park on there is a there there are very nice ones in in Winter Park right by by Rollins College as you're going these are not West on Al on the right hand side I know exactly what you're talking about yeah they have like a one entrance and there's uh like four buildings or I've seen that so the thing is that they did IFI but they have the same scale of a neighborhood and a private entrance or yeah yeah Orange Place yeah this one this is a good example so these are four units with one common entrance and so this is actually not a four plx because they have two lots but if it if this would be one big lot it would be a fourplex and Winter Park has a couple of those this is actually two duplexes but with a common driveway yeah okay okay but that's that's the scale of finding as a multiplex if it's if if they would be four in one lot it's a multiplex if Tri what's the definition of this guess these one are B and I know because I tried to buy one of them and and actually I call maand cuz I discovered that they were simple they split the Lots the duplex by deed so they did it became non-conforming now but it's it's actually to they were approved as two duplexes so the lot is in the middle of this driveway and they they have an easement that you know both sides can use that driveway it's very rational it's good the only thing that they did wrong is that because it's a it's a duplex you can sell the individual units but it's like a condo system so you all own the land and they have a common r a condominium it's a condominium but they split the lot by splitting the lot they created a unconforming situation okay but this is a very it's a very nice project it's a very nice you know product for us to have in the city so let's go to where Multiplex someone asked where is Multiplex allowed let's look at Multiplex so it's allowed in the R2 R3 RP mixed use under OC office commercial and C1 and C2 it's a mixed use it's also permissible in the downtown neighborhood um Central Avenue and and West Mitchell hammock corrid I is high density is where we have multif family in the allowed in the city okay go table R2 is the one that allows duplexes okay and then go down so um it could be in the form of triplexes quatri plexes or small condominium or apartment building so that's what it um can be but it can't exceed eight units cannot okay did anyone have any questions about that one okay go down keep going just want to make sure I'm not missing anything here we talked about crosswalks already yeah we talked about that we removed um bars from the prohibited area because we already talked about bars we put it into the permissible uses table this is the no City Zoning that they put in for to cover the planed unit developments um the ones that expired and we don't agree with it says properties with no City Zoning may be classified as residential office commercial industrial zoning District the classification shall be based upon the consistent upon and consistent with the growth management plan land use designation for the property but they have to come in and request requested zoning so we're saying no go ahead and designate it that's what we asked them to do in the beginning okay go down okay so then that's it thank you so much something else want discuss yeah nope so I do want to discuss the next workshop with um the board so we're looking at June the 4th which is a regularly scheduled LPA meeting okay but we want to start early so we want to make sure what day is it that's on a Tuesday so I'm trying to see if 3:30 works again Tuesday June 4th the 4th June 4th June [Music] 4th what will we going the special so this one is going to be Article Five article seven and article eight can we get all that done with and along with a regular meeting that night or no there's noting no we're not it's this is going to start early what time we starting like this so we like 3:30 yeah that's fine because we'll still be talking when you come yeah most probably more than likely we will still be talking so 3:30 yeah yep on June 4th is everyone okay with that time yeah maybe okay well we'll check again to make sure we have a quorum but that's what we'll plan for we are having a meeting on the 21st um the 21st um I believe so it's going to be development review I think they have something or you won't be here it's it's it's the PSP right so know I know see I told you I told you I forgot to look I'll be in Costa Rica you won't come back go there you're not come back it's going to be an easy one okay because it's an amendment to the PSP just to allow for the model homes so it's going to be an easy you going go without all right that's all I have thank you thank you thanks you're welcome