##VIDEO ID:ECdTgrjgjnM## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay good morning um like to call to order the Palmar water Control District Mee for September 5th 2024 um on page one is your proof of publication Mr Kari please establish a quorum certainly commissioner Marino absent Vice chair stokus present commissioner herd right here supervisor Whiting here supervisor cting here looks like we have four out of the five supervisors here and we've established a quorum wonderful thank you Mr camaris um at this time we'll be looking for any additions deletions or modifications to the agenda are there any none at this time wonderful uh we're now looking for an approval of the junee 17th meeting minutes looking for a motion move approval second all those in favor I I all opposed passes unanimously old business doesn't appear like there is any nope okay new business consider selection of professional uh for surveying services on page nine of your agenda Mr camaris yes in your books on page nine if you recall we had the RFQ that we did a couple of meetings ago and then we reissued the RFQ a second time after we we took out the the fee request and there was only one submitt and that was WGI so I've put that in your books for review it looks like Mr Higgins just got here as well he may have more comments on it but this was the only response to the second RFQ that we put out Mr CIS if you could let the record reflect that chairman Marino has arrived keep oh no we I was trying to get the meeting done before you got here quite frankly Mr Higgins as you take your seat do you have any comments or in regards to the um surveyor proposal yes we purposely try to make that button very difficult to switch up and down there we go there you go um I'm somewhat surprised that there's only one response and due to the fact that um there's no pressing need for a survey tomorrow my recommendation is to read vertise let me make some phone calls okay one general question did we have a preliminary scope of work that went out with the request for qualifications yes there is one okay I had not seen that yet is that something that is available or yeah Andrew should be able to get it to you okay and I don't know how comprehensive that was was it an end total survey or did it break it out you know Portion by Portion by objective what did we do it's not a huge um lengthy scope it's more generic um but it does get the job done but I don't think there's been any discussion on specific items that the board would like to see as a result of the survey and would um providing a more specific scope for the objectives we're looking for are we surveying everything that the district um uses as a inspection easement or are we surveying everything that was expressed in Deed by deed Etc so if we excuse me if we limited that scope might it attract more people might they say okay this is a smaller manageable project versus no I'm comfortable with the scope as is okay any other questions um Mr do do you have any question uh is there any concerns regarding their qualifications from your professional point of view because really we're doing it based on uh it's a request for qualifications not or based under CCNA right not correct okay I don't have any questions about their qualifications they look like they're very qualified to me um so I would move that we rebid the project and try to attract more biders okay second I can agree with that okay all in favor I think we're all in favor I good motion passes 5 to zero thank you on it is okay all right so are we on G2 now uh we are on yes G2 okay so Andrew would you want to yes elaborate on that yes on page 44 of your books is resolution 20244 this is a housekeeping item and I'd actually like to point out there's a couple typos in it as well and the scribers scribers is misspelled and then in the middle section there um renum to 2024 23 that should be 202 24-3 or 03 so what happened is at the April meeting there was a resolution that was passed it was walked on at the meeting as 20241 and then when we did the June meeting we had restarted numbering at one that was not in our records so this is just a housekeeping to clean up to make sure all of the resolutions are in order thank you move approval of resolution number 20244 with the additions and Corrections second all in favor I I I motion carries 5 Z thank you and we are now on G3 goals and objectives page 47 yes this is in your books on page 47 so there's a new requirement from the house bill 7013 that requires Special Districts to adopt goals and objectives before October U what we put together here for you on page 4 9 is exhibit a and this is pretty standard what we've been doing for most of our districts and this is adopting the goals and objectives of the district and essentially you're creating a test and then grading yourselves a year from now on how you did so we trying to keep it um very consistent with what we already do um so as you can see it's exhibit a on page 49 happy to answer any additional questions or possibly your attorney Miss Garrett's here as well if not we would look for a motion to adopt 20245 m g anything you'd like to add not really to add I would just also recommend that we keep it um as simple as it can be and comply with the um with the statute rather than imposing additional standards that you have to meet you can do that elsewhere if you like I would agree any other comments move approval of resolution number 20245 goals and objectives second all those in favor I I motion carries 5 Z thank you okay G4 I have a question so this is a consider appointment of an audit committee and approval of evaluation criteria are we already late in this now no so you already have an auditor um that's been doing the services and they'll go ahead and knock out 202020 2023 2024 the 2023 audit was just doing at the end of June so this is for the current year we're in which wouldn't be due until next June okay so they their contract is to also include the 2023 2024 audit correct you'll see on the top of page 51 uh the fiscal years the first one that would be out the the first three before the 2-year option is the 2023 2024 year that we're currently in and are they going to bid on the can we just extend their contract I was trying to sorry I'm a little laked to the game today so sure um can you explain where they are with their absolutely currently we are in the last year of the two-year option of the current contract and we're required every 5 years to go out for bid for a new auditor you can keep the same auditor when the bids come back if you'd like but what we were doing today is asking the board to appoint themselves as the audit committee and adopt the criteria listed on page 51 so that we could advertise to get bids and then we'll bring that back to the audit committee which is the board if you've appointed yourselves as the audit committee to make a recommendation to the board for approval and again you can stay with the same auditor you can change we just have to go out to bid every five years okay that answers my questions thank you very much anyone else have questions okay anybody want to make a motion to uh we don't have to make a motion we're just appointing ourselves right I believe we need a motion to to appoint yourselves as the audit committee and then a second motion or together to adopt criteria for advertising move staff's recommendation second all in favor I thank you motion carries 5 Z all righty we are now at our status reports any legal updates for us I have nothing for you okay engineer on page 54 is your map sorry just by pure coincidence I came across this map it fits with the discussion that occurred the last board meeting about inflow into the chimney area from pacon Park this particular map does show that that whole western part of Pac Park does in fact go into Mar and this this map dates back to the 8S um but anyway the outcome of the inflow though it goes back into Pac and park to the east at the North End and into the c44 but it also shows on the west side of the chimney there's a fairly sizable drainage area that goes to a ditch on the west boundary that continues northward to the c44 I just thought that would be U of Interest since we just recently discussed it other than that things have been fairly quiet I don't know if that's good news or but uh there's no no no other activities that I can report on so is this so are you certifying this to be 100% accurate then it was accurate for its intended purpose when it was drawn yes and so there is no net effect to Palmar this particular map indicates that there is but physically what's out in the field today there's very little impact to Palmar and who's maintaining these drainage areas far as a no pacon Park okay anyone else have questions so is the drainage in in 2024 different than it was in the in the uh 80s and if so why not significantly different okay we did find out since this map that there is another Outlet at the North End that this particular map does not reflect that okay the um east to west line there on the excuse me north to south line on the easterly portion if I've got this correct that um ditch occurs in uh Palmar district and occurs on property that is uh drainage incidental to roadway or something is that a correct description of where that ditch lies I do not believe that that particular ditch is part of works of the district okay I think it's an agricultural ditch that's been there for obviously 50 years but its physical location does not coincide with what has been established or recorded at one time as um potential Palmar responsibility for drainage or set aside for a potential drainage incidental to roadways Etc not that I'm aware of okay I think uh Madam chair if I if I remember correctly I think Martin County has a number of these types of ditches that were created in the 40s and the 50s as agricultural ditches and at one point there was some if we went into deeper dive I think with our County uh survey Department I think they found where they were actually all surveyed and I I want to say permitted I don't know if that would be the correct word at the time but then I think they were abandoned there was there was something where they were abandoned or that the county was no longer responsible or the farm so this might be a leftover of of that because I know there's a couple more as you go eastbound along um I think I guess that's caner Highway out there if I'm not mistaken that would be typical and they all lead to the um the um okobe waterwing c44 c44 yes my only concern addresses the uh AG grieved property owner stated that you know are we concerned about drainage and it appears that if this does not occur and any pelar dedicated property that it's basically a discussion or agreement between two Property Owners not anything to do with Palmar is would that be a fair statement could be viewed that way yes okay any more questions about this I thank you Mr Higgins anything else no okay district manager the only thing I have for you today is if you haven't met her already ready this is Stephanie Brown ready well not much has changed I have wash outs there that are just getting worse and worse I'm not going to mess with them till rainy season is over I flag them off I put tape up caution tape around them try to keep it safe for people who want to run around and uh I found that you know I got somebody sent me an email somebody on uh Facebook was saying there was a lot of activity at gate one where I don't go through because of easement access you know where we have a property owner says they don't want me to go through there and I was told by our La your engineer to stay out of there but I took pictures of that where they put Crush rock on top of that that mile going in on fwc's going to the be house what's in there it just stops there in front of there and it looks who put the crushed rock there huh who put the crushed rock there not a road no no it's just crushed rock the rock there do you know house right there when you go into Palmar what what's owned by Zach it's you know he's got parking spots there put a jiffy John there here's some of the pictures here of it going in right here they didn't they didn't grind it down really it's it's beautiful to me it's not holes and all this and it's a lot of money I I went down with my four-wheeler because there's a part where I can get through you know without here's the be house as you can see you see the Jiffy John over there with the parking there so this is where it's coming right into the Palmar the private lots and that's as far as it goes is right there and you keep going there's these wash outs I talked to a friend of mine has a bobcat he used to do a lot of slabs for me he's licensed and everything like that and I can get a price from him cheaper than most Subs I don't have to mess with him he'll come out there I'm waiting for the rainy season to be because all that stuff will just wash right that's fine and he told me he could do this for 95 an hour 4our minimum and you know just getting the machines and stuff out there is a real pain and that's my problem with everybody else they see getting their stuff out there I was trying to get it done with a back Co and that's what I was working on because I was going to try to put in coverts but I'm going to put swells in and just instead of a covert put like a swell where the water can clearly go through there because I have one other place like that and I drive through it and there's no problem and it's not a safety hazard it don't wash out nothing saves US money I do whatever I can to save yall money but just that action up there in the front you know who when it was put in is probably saved FWC us over $10,000 of Labor and rock you know and it's it took took care of a lot of washouts which I didn't go down I go down in a different area you know but there's but basically that's it I don't see many people out there I go very early I'm I'm out there before the sun comes up and and I leave I'm out of there it's so hot out there okay well any questions yeah I I want our engineer and our attorneys to tell us what obligations we have to fix these wash outs and turn them into roads these are all on the canals yeah I would express it in another way as well as a question I don't know if this goes to the attorney general or who would be able to answer this for us but what Le legal obligation do we have to private property owners to restore property that's been damaged by misuse and what obligation do we have to protect those Property Owners from misuse of Pathways that we've established and then they become you know incidental roadways or whatever you want to call them but we're opening up a path basically across somebody's private property do we have any responsibility for what happens afterward WS I don't know that would be an attorney question yeah don't worry about they see whatever they need to see as far is all that is we had the signs up no vehicle man you know you know as to go on these Canal sides we've made no Trails The Works are there these this has all been tore up since all these people are out there you've seen pictures of where it's been graded and that's that's mainly where the wash outs are some of those roads weren't graded they got grass on them and if nobody would have touched them in the first place all these wash outs and everything wouldn't be there either because they would have looked like the other ones yeah you're pardon me but your inspection of the properties out there does not by any means create enough of an impact to kill all the grass and basically end up with when I was out there before I worked out there for 9 years I was out there when hardly anybody was out there and it slowly got more people out there not by me because I didn't want nobody out there and because I hunted out there I don't Hunt No More in it and it's a you know it's what's happened with this four-wheel operation of everybody and this I remember when I four-wheeled in the 70s at the end of 441 in okobe Boulevard the mud flats we called it but but you know it was the same thing I didn't have a big four-wheel drive but my buddies did and we just went out there drank beer but it was the same thing well the the water Control District the water control district is not out there to build roads no and there the word Road does not appear in our works of the district no and and nor should we be yeah facilitating the ability for folks to be building roads out there however we have to remember we are about the works of the district so that our attorney would probably caution us on what is what is our purview and what is not our purview but as far as I'm concerned we can let everything all the grass grow absolutely yes like let the that's what preserves the I wish it would grow and what I'm saying is financially before you know we ask whoever to reach into their pocketbooks and write us a check to maintain the works why are we doing that are we doing that because we need TJ to ride up and down and inspect it or are we doing it because misuse has occurred to the point where a negative Financial impact hits the property owners and hits the district and and how do we protect ourselves from that that that is my question again back to the so I i' I've made note of the question and we'll communicate it to Ruth to look at it in more depth I mean offhand I am skeptical that the district has an obligation to restore or protect the property unless the district has contributed somehow to letting it happen unless the district has played some role in it but I don't know all the background details uh well enough to give an opinion right now um I will pass it on to Ruth thank you Mr Higgins yeah the issue is those are maintenance Burns and they're very inviting to people to use incorrectly and also there's an obligation of palar to maintain those maintenance BMS and they're supposed to be graded away from the canal to prevent erosion gullies like that going into the canal but it's been an ageold problem with people thinking that those maintenance birms are public roads they're not they're maintained just so that there's the ability to maintain the canal okay and just another point of clarification but the maintenance burm is strictly maintenance it is not a control structure or part of a water retainage or Etc just maintenance and inspection pathway only so okay my my comment would be maintain it to the minimal degree that TJ is able to drive down and that's it don't spend penny more said all along until my safety it you know if somebody wants to you know we've already had people out there it's run off of the BM on the outside into a ditch here and there but tell my safety is that I'm the only one and I say if we put those signs back up I they probably won't last a month you know because these you know all a sudden they just started disappear and they've been there for many years I put them up I was out there with an auger putting them in and they've been there many years and then all of a sudden you know they start disappearing awful quick well I think it's our responsibility to to do the maintenance that protects the works of the district and nothing more the the signage and again maybe this is just silly things that I've learned over the years that are not correct but putting up a no tresp passing sign on your property taking a picture of it and sending it to the Sheriff's Office basically handles the responsibility of a no trespass situation if somebody comes along and tears down that sign um has Our obligation been met that we have warned people in some way and if we don't put up any signs are new people coming and going all the time have we done anything to try and at least inform them you shouldn't be here yeah that's kind of a law school exam question um but it and I could I don't think it's appropriate to for me to get into hypothesizing right now but it's certainly will we'll look into what the parameters are on it um if the sign is posted and then taken down I don't know there's a lot more factual questions to answer about how that's happening thank you we survey those works as we have the canals on I don't know what the law is uh about it but if they're surveyed we can put trespassing signs up but uh it's a question of how long people who the people who own lots are back up to that Canal go to the center I don't know what to do about them but those trespassing things would account to everybody else but we can't put trespassing signs up unless something surveyed and okay I don't know you just that's somehow we need to protect the canal and access to the canals protect the works and also at the same time discourage uh people from trespassing on them and it can be done it can be designed in a way that discourages that protects the works and discourages access we're just going to have to figure out how we do that maybe it may cost us a lot of money but it's that's our responsibility I I feel the same way that property owners whoever they are should be able to say look don't don't abuse this little Canal path I want to put my tent there or you you can walk it you can ride a b absolutely that's correct yeah all right the way it used to be right TJ that's it I mean it was beautiful out there when I was there but no more um that's about it thanks TJ thank you all righty do we have a security report how are you today I gave a paper I think yall have that um this is for the off duty report basically over the summer months that we had uh approximately 342 users contacted 38 verbal warnings written warnings and citations not a lot of them were verbal warnings most of them are documented um one Reckless discharge encounter it was a a firing without supervision of an adult that was addressed by the officer and then uh we put the GPS for all the wash outs we've been seeing but he obviously knows about them uh just assisting the public with stuck ATVs and utvs when the public request while we're out there we can't Overlook that request um lots of safe target practice that we've observed you know people having a back stop or a burm or you know that stuff uh we did find two Firearms abandoned that were recovered and turned over to Sheriff's Office um some illegal camping on South Florida Water Management property on the levy um and then we had one incident of fleeing and alluding from law enforcement out there and that's still under investigation um I think that's about it we got hunting season coming up so we do anticipate more violations out there um there's been locations that are found that are people will be trespassing on with tree stands and stuff set up so that's just a potential violation we we do expect traffic to pick up out there during this winter season it's cooler more people to be out there recreating so that's all we have for the off duty report right now and the hunting stands are were put up by whom we have no idea that it just somebody puts a tree stand up on on property and we just have to see who shows up if we knew who did it now you know we could mark them but we'd rather catch them the tree stand so then we do know who put them up right and you're speaking about tree stands that are within the Wildlife Management Area or outside of the WMA outside of the WMA now these are these are going to be on like South Florida water management or Martin County Properties that we while we're traversing the area for palar have uh discovered okay I'm just curious how do you identify that property as Martin County or South Florida Water Management so it'll be either with property appraisers um is typically what we do with GPS and we're not looking for things on the border you know we're not splint te's but if it's smack dab in the middle of a parcel of you know five or six South floor Water Management Properties and the district you know South floor Water Management District would have to say on that a general GPS location is sufficient for you to establish trespass by versus a complete total survey of a property well so we wouldn't be charging trespassing we' be charging for them the unlawful hunting on South Florida Water Management it's its own Administrative Code so it wouldn't be dealing with the trespassing no trespassing situation um when it comes to these are also not on easement topus it or anything like that you know it's like it's South Florida owns that parcel and there's nothing you know there's not a lot of claim from either way it's it just what we typically find when people are poaching animals okay just curious but what is the penalty if you catch somebody in a tree stand poaching off of a South Florida water a second degree misdemeanor a second degree misdemeanor yes okay all right thank you and then there was one issue just for looking into the future of the maintaining of the easements and stuff like that with putting up the no trespassing signs on that our concern with law enforcement would be you know if it is a private property that is owned that the district has an easement through that may not be the correct verbage you might want to use if just something more like maintenance burm you know you know maintained by the district there's something to that effect versus the no trespassing because that no trespassing is going to be uh more difficult to enforce until we have a survey in hand and it actually shows who owns what and all that but that's just our general I guess recommendation for you guys thank you all right and then uh for the rest of the meeting I'll be here for FWC and if you have any questions for the agency perfect one last question on safe shooting are they all in internal properties are any of them set up along Canal Banks where where do they basically have the BMS what do you are you asking are they shooting on the works of the district or are you asking if are they on the private property correct yes are these on the works of the district shooting down a Canal bank into a BM or are they within the private properties that the shooting occurs the it's it's Hit or Miss because you have from what we've seen using the same GPS stuff that we you used to see you know and that's something when it comes down to court stuff we do if need to get a survey and all that to prove it in court um but for the over establishing probable cause in the field of where the location is um we do see a lot of you know overlaps with the works of the district with private property land owners that you know sometimes it owns they on property appraisers it shows them owning to the middle of the canal um so you would say you know using the same uh I guess uh practice that we do with regular law enforcement out there we would say that they were the owners you know out there to the middle so whether they're discharging into on their property but they're on the levy it might be a works of the district but it's also private property in our normal practice of law enforcement enforcement so it it's a it's for us it's a great area for me to say it's on the works of the district or it's on private property you know we would from what the normal practice that we do it some of it occurs on both if that makes sense gotcha I'm specific concern TJ's already said he goes out early nobody's bother him personally I've been on a Canal bank with people shooting down that Canal bank correct and and if you know depending on which direction the incident of the juvenile firing uh that actually was shooting incidentally towards the officer so that's how the officer found that you know came across this situation and it was a juvenile firing recklessly and the parent was addressed you know that situation was dealt with um with law enforcement but yes it was shooting that that was the incident of Reckless discharge if it's something where they're shooting straight down the Canal bank you know often you know those are quarter acre partials and stuff like that so you'd have a numerous violations but that's going to be your Reckless discharge and we only have one incident of that where they're just blankly firing down the whole Canal bank most of it's been on their own private property all right your your judgment better than mine but it you know when it comes to a 300 yd shot versus 25 yards into a pile of dirt correct we haven't seen any long range stuff that juvenile was the one incident where I'd say 100% that was Reckless and it was dealt with um but most of it it's like a 25 yard shot or they're shooting into a tree you know most of that discharge out there that people you hear rapid fire but you walk up and they got a burn Rel contained okay thank most of it's been safe yeah heard did you yeah first of all I wanted this is very helpful okay it's it's a it's a nice record we'll be able to judge whether we're progressing or not right and and also I'm asking as a um Martin County Commissioner um what's your assessment of the prolifer proliferation of unpermitted structures in Palmar can you I mean I'm I'm a police officer can you define what Pro any prate means an increase an increase in the in the structures out there yeah it is the wet season we had actually one of the people that put a camp out there or I don't know if that you define that as a structure sure um but the flooding itself when it gets really wet takes care of a lot of that increase so a lot of what we're seeing is just maintaining and I say in the overall violations that are are out there are going down um over you know from the summer months is when kids are out of school and all that and we didn't have a lot of issues out there you know typical stuff here and there but nothing I would say that would even you know noteworthy you know three months of stuff was in one one bullet you know a couple bullet points so it was overall not crazy out there and then the structure increase I said that the water flooding takes care of that you know they may put one up in the summer but come you know the wet season it's flooding it out and they're taking it down and pulling it somewhere else okay thanks yep any other questions thank you very much problem okay financial report page 55 yes page 55 in your books um as you can see at the bottom the current fund balance is approximately 1.9 million happy to answer any questions if there are any but everything is moving along normally any questions no okay invoices page 56 anybody have any questions about the invoices move approval second all in favor hi motion carries thank you very much 5 Z comments from the public uh landowner items any land owner want a comment any comments from the public for items not on the agenda come on up to the podium sir thank you for being here thank you for WGI putting it a big bid thank you um I guess was on the agenda so hopefully I'm speaking at the right time but that's fine um I certainly appreciate you guys giving me the time to speak and um I just wanted to ask that perhaps you reconsider the selection um I feel that I think the board agreed that we were a qualified firm um this has already been advertised twice I don't know if a third advertisement is the in the best interest of everybody's time um at this point a selection of WGI would just allow you to enter into negotiations if negotiations aren't found to be satisfactory at that point you could read advertise and then I think we'd be back in the position we are now um so yeah I mean I'd love to answer any questions you have but uh that's again I just would ask that you reconsider and um potentially consider selecting WGI today thank you any comments any questions yes I have a question sure go right ahead given your expertise can you say why we're not getting other bids uh I'm not sure um like I said no there's no shortage of firms looking um to win contracts at least in my experience that's um I said it's been advertised twice we've responded both times I'm not sure how many um responses were received on the first advertisement um so I I I I can't speak to why nobody else would be responding not because there's too much easy work and nobody wants to yeah we're we've made entirely too much money and and we don't want any more money so we just decided to stop going after it got it Mr CIS do you have any updates or comments you'd like to make on that only that the first advertisement we received three responses and the second one we received just the one from WGI okay M any other comments or questions or change of position no no all right well maybe threes a CH we we'll be resubmitting and we look forward to hopefully working with you on the next one thanks thank you so much okay we're out down to board comments now any any board comments any questions I'm set all set all set any Andrew anything you want to add Mr Higgins well then I will adjourn this meeting at 10:15 holy Heavens took me longer to get here than the meeting was thank you all for com