e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good afternoon it's ly Tipton Florida Li of cities just checking in [Music] for [Music] for [Music] for [Music] for [Music] for for for for e for e e e e e e so it's four o'clock guys in so it's four o'clock guys so in lie of there being a chair I'm Sunny CR I am the city clerk of the city of patka and obviously miss Lynn cannot see me I'm I'm behind the monitor apologize Miss Tipton um but I wanted to to go ahead and just kind of get this rolling since in lie of having a chair which is further down on our agenda um to to give a brief introduction I want to turn the mic over to Troy Bell who is the city manager of the city of PL hello everybody I wanted to kick us off this afternoon evening um by thanking you for the time and the commitment that you are making um I'm not sure everybody knows what you signed up for but it is admirable what you are doing um because the community will be forever in your debt for the time and effort that you put in the deliberations that you go through in making um sound and conscious recommendations on uh what the future of this community is going to look like and how we're going to to conduct business um so I wanted to thank you for that um and I also want to uh be able to kick us off and um introduce to uh you somebody who's going to go over the presentation on our Charter review um Lyn Tipton has been kind enough to to agree to um perform this for us and guide us in in the direction of how this occurs she's done this um many many times before this isn't the first time so you're in good hands moving forward board so again thank you and my introduction of Miss dipton I'll let you take it from here wonderful thank you Mr Bell and thank you madam clerk can you guys hear me why is sound not happening I am not muted let's make sure Sound Works somebody muted the Sounder sorry let me try that again how's that for sound wonderful Mr Bell Madam clerk thank you both so much members of the committee hi I'm Lyn Tipton with the Florida League of cities we are the Statewide Association for the municipal governments in Florida whether that's a city a town or a village every year we're very proud to have about 99 to 100% membership patka since it's been Incorporated they actually predate the creation of our association uh as a community and uh we've always been so proud to have patus full partici ipation and enthusiastic participation most of the time with the commission and the staff so um I'm going to go ahead and sunny I thought if I shared uh screen it's easier you're more than welcome to right to get to the PowerPoint let's get started with that take a second to load go up to slideshow let's go right there all right hang on gotta move the bar sorry it's not letting me click there we go sorry about that all right so members of the committee congratulations on your appointment it probably would help a little to just know every municipality in Florida has a charter you might have lived in another state where Charters aren't graded this way this is the foundational document as you heard it is not where the details live you can think of this as the Constitution it is a broad document but it frames the basis for everything else the city does and therefore I consider it the Bedrock the foundation whatever word you like better in Florida currently we have 411 municipalities even our smallest city Marin land which has a population they believe of just under 10 people the Census Bureau thinks they have 15 all the way up to Jacksonville which is a million 5,000 people everybody has a charter so today I want to help you understand the charter Basics and what some committees find to be best practice practices and within those best practices you all will then begin your work together as a committee and we just want you to know you're not alone there are resources out there for you you're well staffed through your city and that this hopefully becomes just another element in your orientation to set you off well on your way I mentioned it's the broad framework U why did the city get created people that were like-minded came together and made the decision to self-govern under Florida's Constitution the municipal layer is optional you have to live in a county you have to live in certain Special Districts like a school district and a Water Management District but choosing to form the municipality that's upon the people and therefore when that decision is made what's the document that guides them it's their constitution in forming the charter they set forth their Vision their process what the elected body is going to look like some very key and important elements and then the details will live both in law by resolution by policy which is why most Charters are only 8 to 10 pages long when you take out the legal description what we call the meets and Bounds survey description when you set that apart you're not looking at a long document much like the US Constitution short sweet to the point so why have Charter review committees our oldest cities in Florida go all the way back to our recognition as a US Territory with both Pensacola and St Augustine coming into being As Cities they needed something to help them structure the word charter is from the Latin Carta meaning contract the best way to think of this is you're now doing a review of Pat's social contract with the people and the body they created the government they created to do self-governance and government evolve and because they evolve you want to make sure you've addressed in a timely manner what those changes have me and does the overall structure for the city need to be amended in any way so you've been appointed to the Charter Review Committee you usually have a Time certain that is often backed into with the election date forthcoming if there are any items that need to go on to the ballot we kind of work a little backward that way it helps it helps staff and it often helps the committee to know that they're working toward that as a timeline for some cities the meeting time of the charter Review Committee is not wedded to the ballot but wedded instead to their own election cycles and processes so we do see a mix of both you've been tasked to do the review that review May then lead to actual recommendations to the commission when the commission reviews those possible recommendations they will determine then what could be put put on the ballot or referenda for the voters to consider voting on not every recommendation necessarily turns into a ballot measure sometimes they do in addition to you the committee which is doing the Deep dive the long discussions and all the due diligence you are giving the public the chance to weigh in the opportunity to be heard and to take part in this Charter review so your role as the eyes and the ears so to speak of the community are then joined with those persons who care enough quite frankly that's what's required right they're going to have to care enough to come to the meeting or perhaps send a letter or an email through staff in order to weigh in on the work that you're doing the subject matters you're talking about and if any recommendations do get made they may very well want to weigh in on those recommendations what do we find in a city Charter if it has a table of contents it often looks exactly like this we're getting started with the reason for the city's existence the boundaries whether the full description or in this day and age of computer technology a link to the bounds the boundaries what is the legislative got body going to be like is it a five member city council a seven member City commission what are their terms how will they qualify how will they be elected what is the scope of their work Authority and responsibility the form of government is how will the staff be appointed how will they function with the legislative body where will the checks and balances be built into the system what are the authorities and responsibilities that are most critical to the governance Charter officers are positions that are defined in Charter not the job description but the role and the resp responsibility there are fiscal and fiduciary authorities and responsibilities in every city Charter some of them given to the elected officials some of them given to staff and some to both again looking for that balance and then as this document lives and breathes and evolves what will the process be for amending it that is standard in Charters all across the board some of the elements that most Charter review committees end up spending their time with naturally come back to that legislative body we use the words commission and Council interchangeably in Florida there is no difference between them we tended to find in the early days for the 1600s in the United States that Council reflected the British system that we brought over however Council as the years went by not being gender-neutral the word councilman became council member council person whereas commissioner was gender neutral and a number of cities changed their Charter to commission but just know that historically that's why you see both words so what's the right size for a city council we have as small as three in Florida all the way up to 19 with Jacksonville's Consolidated City County government somewhere in that mix you'll find your sweet spot for our folks fives and sevens are our most common numbers we have some sixes what's the right length of their term four for many people is perfect it takes three years to learn the budget I'll I'll throw in because there's the year you're auditing the year you're in and the year for which you're planning as a result three years so the cities that use two-year terms somebody's always missing out on that full cycle for the four-year term we have folks that argue that's too many we have cities in Florida with three-year terms because that was the Compromise where they arrived so between two three and four what's the right amount to their term how are you going to elect them does everybody run at large do you run by single member district do you have to live within a district but run at large what's the right way what's most reflective of your population to putting a legislative body together how are you going to choose the person who's the head not every city in Florida uses the word Mayor but the vast majority do so if you've got a mayor for most of our cities in that case how do you want the mayor to be elected do they hold the term the whole time does the mayor rotate in onee terms by seat seat one seat two seat three or does the mayor get elected from within the council everybody on the council runs and is elected and then one person per year is elected from within the council to be mayor there's a wide mix of that around Florida you've got to help the rest with the Public's help as well decide what is best for patka when I talk about the forms of government the form for patka is commission manager also called Council manager this is the form found in most of the cities in Florida as well as most of the cities in the United States we often say it's the most prevalent rather than using words like popular it is most often seen okay the complexity of government and having a professional appointed manager serve in that role since World War II that has been kind of the driving force in forms of government referring to mayor council forms you'll see the words weak and strong these have nothing to do with the mayor's personality you just need to know it's part of the bigger vocabulary lesson what it's related to is in the charter what is the Authority for the mayor is the mayor administering as well as being legislative is the mayor only voting in cases of a tie and otherwise not voting at all what is the role and there you get into the form of government the commission form is all but gone the reason we keep it on the slides is we have a handful of cities that have it in their Charter even if they don't function that way on a day-to-day basis historically it is the way that a number of cities ran themselves up until about the 1940s and it's largely gone away since that time it's very hard to be a commissioner running a city department when you're part-time but this is where terms like a road commissioner a police commissioner a fire commissioner came about is because the elected official had oversight to a department or Department's plural and as it became more complex and timec consuming it was very hard to do as a part-time elected official so it is all but gone in Florida as well as across the United States and then we have that magical category called Hy which means they've taken a little bit of both or three or four elements from the mix they've made it work for them and I just can't put them in a category as a political Scientist by Nature I'd like to be able to count everybody that way but it really doesn't matter the important thing is does the charter work for that City in that does the form of government run well is it both effective and at times efficient effective being the focal point and so if a hybrid form works for a city great but normally we try to put the cities Within These categories because it makes it easier to help people better understand what's in the charter now the charter offices every city by and large will determine its own way for the creation of its various departments sometimes the department is structured to match the service or several Services come out of one Department putting these into a charter can be a way to emphasize them some cities simply put under the manager departments will be created managed through the manager you know that's things like that some were carried over from the city's past history and written into the charter and the people wanted it to stay that way it's up to each City to make this decision particularly for cities with utilities we have found historically there were times they wanted it in the charter as a way for the public to better understand its importance and the weight that it carries for the city other times it was a way to say we're paying attention to this this matters to us we've put it into the charter right again the thought of the charter carrying weight is because only the people then by referenda can change it so just something to think of for most cities the attorney the clerk are the two positions all charters have in common and then based on the form of government most Council or commission manager cities have the manager in by Charter some do not have the manager by Charter and it's by ordinance instead so that one can vary so I made some patka comparisons and on the next slide you'll see but there's a population range the geography that we looked at among these cities a little bit more toward the Suburban nature not not Coastal and among the forms and then what are the sizes of those councils when you and the committee get to this level in the work and you start to think who should we compare with should we be you know when you look just around you geographically sometimes it's better to step back and say Statewide who else shares some characteristics with patka and which ones might we want to take a look at So within this chart for example you'll see places in Palm Beach Broward Midstate laua all the way over towards Tampa with pulk Clay which is to the north of you Santa Rosa all the way across on the Panhandle back down to pul Hernando on the west coast and then clay again just with population and form of government you're going to see that they're very similar in Florida for 10,000 and above Council manager is largely that form of government that's not just playing with the statistics it's true across the the board you'll see for the size of the councils quite a bit of similarity as well the outlier there with Milton Milton has nine that's a very large city council okay we only have a handful of eights or nines obviously with the eight that's a non- voting mayor with Milton you get nine and uh an uh eight other members on the council as well but all nine vote so just some food for thought now to take the deeper dive what you and staff will talk about is who has additional things in common the same scopes of work issues like police and fire and utilities and then within this list you can focus on two or three for what is called a peer City comparison what is the most like Palatka if you decide you want to do that side by-side Charter look and that's something only you and the members of the committee can get to but this kind of a slide helps with that research so some of the things we see for Best Practices among Charter review committees obviously all of you are representative of the Commissioners who appointed you you're going to be meeting in the public regularly noticed with the opportunity for people to be heard and for you all to have the chance to talk in what is I refer to as the modern era because I've been with the league long enough that we were pre-computer when I started it used to be very tough to share the work of an Advisory Board like yourselves nowadays with a website your minutes are going to be be there your agendas are going to be there the public has a much greater opportunity that way to know what you're doing when you're doing it when the discussions are coming up that are going to matter most to your public and that way you really do tend to get greater participation back in the old days it was post the notices in the libraries and on the community board at Publix and go around to all the different Community groups and say hey by the way this is our year for a charter review can we get you all to come to a meeting with any of you maybe want to serve on the committee I will tell you the electronic age the digital age has certainly helped with getting the word out for work of committees like yourselves when you get into the recommending phase and you know you're getting ready to take things to the commission some Charter review committees put together more or less an FAQ a frequently asked questions or a little white paper that goes along with it here's why we brought up issue a this was our rationale this is our request or this is what staff provided here's the recommendation that we're making so that the public stays fully engaged can read along with you if they didn't get to come to the meeting and they can find it online I mentioned going around to different Civic groups if you find yourself at a referenda level with potential amendments know that the public might be anxious to engage with you and that your local League of Women Voters group rotary kowas and Elks might serve as hosts for a forum at which the charter can be talked about and any potential amendments I realize that's way down the road but when you begin with the end in mind sometimes you can start to plan along the way for where these might occur and occur well so that again the public every possible voter has had that chance to engage and to learn ahead of any potential referenda all right a couple of other best practices I hear from the attorneys and I am not an attorney that you want to be very clear where Authority rests a few years ago we had a city that had put matching powers under two positions conflict absolutely conflict and they had to work to get a referenda ready to take two the voters to then separate that out right where should Authority be and are all authority layers clear in the election qualifying sometimes it's best to reference ordinances that can be regularly updated to go along with election Cycles in your county with the County Supervisor of Elections referring very specifically in a charter at times has not served cities well because calendar dates changed and then the charter was out of line with it it meant going to referenda in other words make sure it's very clear and that it's also simple in process for the public to better understand and when they're stepping up to run that they themselves can understand it the attorneys lastly always caution me that when it comes to Charters as with constitutions you limit yourself the more you write less is better some of the charter Trends I mentioned for the form of government this is true across the US I will mention the 26 municipalities that have Incorporated since the year 198 85 have all been Council manager in form if you wanted to know how prevalent that has become for Florida it's absolute and then I'm usually asked what's the right amount of time between Charter reviews some cities put this into the charter every 10th year every 15th year every 20th year or By Request there's usually that option too that request process can be by petition it can be by request of the commission it's open sometimes I usually find that if it's less than 10 years it's a newer city and they're still working through the things that have occurred since incorporation if you do it too frequently you can get charter review fatigue and folks won't step up to be on the committee right if you wait too long there's so much to be done because of changes in federal as well as in state law that a committee can also get overwhelmed so I usually share that 10 15 and even 20 seems to be the spot where most most cities are comfortable with saying at least this often we're going to review the charter and of course the city always has the opportunity to undertake a charter review when substantial things occur some of the questions that are posed and I won't read this to you from the model City Charter which was put together by Teddy Roosevelt and a group of concerned New Yorkers when they formed the national civic league back in the 1890s these are just things that help a charter Review Committee get started there are more within the model City Charter document that go by article and article within the charter but most committees find that this handful of questions is at least a place to begin and then I wanted to list in terms of being able to do some of that comparative work how you find the model City Charter and there is a municipal code Corporation library with a Florida specific page on it over a hundred of the cities have their Charters online and listed and available with a click of the button otherwise going to an individual City's website usually within the office of the council the manager or the clerk you will find as well the Charter online it's only in our very smallest cities that we don't have their Charters online somewhere uh and in any event that is a place to consider beginning back to the slide that I shared for the peer cities if you're curious on some of the research information the league has through its annual City stats survey please know that we can help in narrowing that window like the ones I shared on that slide and if you uh wanted to talk with anyone in our Tallahassee office for those research questions we'd be more than happy to help for you as the members of the committee as well as for City staff and I know that I went quickly but I did want to leave some time for some questions if there are any I really appreciate the opportunity to be with you and I want to wish you all the best in this process let me stop there and see if there are any questions any questions procedure is this how how much time uh do we look at like a couple of years or I think you mentioned it but well for most cities it's three to six months six to nine months nine months to a year based on the scope of the review I'll let someone from patka answer that more specifically of course hi Lynn I actually just saw you at your uh FLC webinar earlier this afternoon good to see you thanks uh hi everyone Jane West I'm the City attorney so what we are aiming for here in terms of commissioner guidance is the November 2026 general election we're aiming for a general election so we can capture uh the majority of the electorate vote um and so in order to as Lynn mentioned we have to back up the dates because we have to have uh documents in to the supervisor of elections by a certain date so what we're looking for from you is a hard deadline to present your recommendations in April of 2026 and I'll get into that later on in my PowerPoint presentation thank any other questions from Miss Tipton no I just like thank M for working with P once again and uh we just definitely appreciate you giving us the insights in the framework for us so go ahead and get started working it's always great to see you great to see you too I'm so glad you're serving on the committee that's wonderful well I will thank you all again for your time wish you all the best please know that you are not alone I'm regularly in touch with your city's staff and I know that they will get ah hold of me if there's anything the league can do to be of assistance to you so I wish you a great and inclusive and engaging process thanks again thank you thank you Miss Tipton thanks so so you see me uh coming to the podium here just to guide us through this initial process until you selected chairperson Vice chairperson to move forward uh just to get us through this agenda but I do want to recognize that you have uh myself as a resource uh for this committee as well as Miss Wes who you will hear from uh later on in the agenda but Mr G is here um he is new to our organization so some of you may not have met him yet um but he is the director of planning and in saying that I'm new to the organization as well and some I see some new faces here that I haven't met yet but I look forward to if I haven't met you yet getting to know you and introducing myself and um being able to to like I said get to know you better but also uh a gentleman who's not here uh currently but will be uh working with the committee as the support it's Mr Griffith uh the assistant city manager um so I wanted to let you know that all of us are here uh as a resource to be able to support the important work that you are embarking on um accomplishing here and as Miss Tipton alluded to uh this very well uh can be the foundation of our organization the gravity of what you have before you is is critical and to your point um that it can be a two or threeyear period whenever a review comes up and that's something that you have to look at what is the frequency of your reviews in in the future um as Miss West said our Target is 2026 so we're getting started now uh so that we can provide the information that the commission needs in order to meet the target deadlines to get this information on uh the next uh election cycle so with that said um feel free to to use us as a resource uh any questions inside the meeting outside the meeting that we can help address but this is your meeting and this is your organization and I will stop there and turn this over for the next item on the agenda for uh a brief discussion of parliamentary procedure hi everyone as everybody knows me I'm s CR I'm the city clerk of the city of Paca um I was asked to give you guys a brief update on parliamentary procedures I see a lot of you guys have served on boards and committees in the past so this will just be a real quick refresher for you guys and that for those of you that have not served on a government border Committee in the past I certainly want to say welcome so glad you guys took the plunge and are with us today so if any of this information is new to you please feel free to see me um at any time I'm happy to go through this information maybe a little bit more in depth with you so you can have a better understanding I realize we're already a quarter into our two hour time together so I'm gonna try to go pretty quick so please please excuse me I'll try to not be on Sunny speed and hopefully my clicker will work I just tested it a minute ago and it was working but now it's not working okay parliamentary procedures it's the code and rules of ethics for working together in groups it governs the orderly and expeditious fashion and transaction of meetings it's particularly government meetings but as you can see there other other forms of meetings carry them on as well board members have the right to speak everyone has the right to make their opinions heard as long as done in a in a method that the other board members can tolerate you'll see that I've thrown a couple of definitions on this slide that I feel may be may you may find helpful because not only are you guys needing these definitions for your decision- making process amongst yourselves but these are also things you may want to include in the charter for certain decisions to happen from the commission level a quorum means more than half of the majority of the voting body a majority is more than half of those voting 2/3 majority or twoth thirds of the majority kind of straightforward sometimes you'll hear a super majority also um in a case have a commission of five it would be a vote of four to five um a mo here pretty much why we're here why I'm going through this right now these definitions a motion a motion is a proposal by a member to take an action you'll hear a board member say I want to make a motion to Y and Z that will then call for someone to second I want to second that to make that happen you'll see me referred to a lot is do we have an agenda for the meeting as clerk that's that's my that's my first question to getting a meeting called and getting a meeting scheduled and essentially it's an outline of what need the what decisions and what actions need to be made by that committee at that time or presentations to be made before the committee you'll hear sometimes people refer to a parliament Arian a parliamentarian is simply an expert on parliamentary procedures a lot of times the City attorney will act as the Parliamentary for the commission you guys can if you guys choose to have a parliamentarian you can but otherwise City staff's here to help you guide the process if you if you'd like us to how to have an effective meeting a little bit later I'll come up to you guys and talk to you about government in the sunshine and why it's important to publish an agenda before the meeting um but that the purpose of an agenda also is to keep us on track and to keep us flowing on a timely manner I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard my commission likes to stay late I know you guys don't so we're going to try to get you guys in and out of here in a decent hour call the meeting to order on time you have to have a quorum to conduct business which is why you'll hear me call you guys and say hey just want to call and say will you be at the meeting it's not that I don't trust you to be at the meeting it's just to make sure that we have Quorum that the other board members can expect you here and so that we can we can flow through on a timely manner moving along to agenda creation and I know my slides acting kind of weird but essentially your agenda is trying to create the create ask everyone what problem am I trying to solve so on creating the agenda today we knew that some people may or may not have experience with parliamentary procedures may may or may not have experience in writing Charters so we tried to write the agenda to to for those items to flow together I'll talk about the Sunshine Law a little bit more of course the purpose of an agenda is to Value everyone's time and then I've got a tip in your agenda packet I know the screen's acting kind of weird but on your agenda pack it's a basic flow of an agenda you're going to have your called order you're going to have your your roll call your public comments your regular public business or your items to be taken um for that for that meeting and of course any comments and adjournment on the next slide you'll see your typical procedures everyone has to be recognized by the chair to speak into for a orderly flow of dialogue so you'll hear me a lot of times say Madame chair or Mr chair may I do this and it's because I'm getting the permission of the chair to do that all of our comments as the public are directed to you guys as a board and if you're asking for permission something the chair gives that permission and then likewise you to each other your comments are directed to the chair so and of course we just touched on it just a minute to go when you guys know that you have an action in mind that you you're ready for the committee to take you make a motion someone seconds the motion it is then up to the chair to restate the motion so that everybody has the ability to understand what the motion said and of course that was more important back in the days before microphones but still restating the motion is very helpful to your clerk um no member can speak twice at the same question all others must have the opportunity to speak this really comes in when you have a Bo word of a lot of people it's if people are constantly taking turns to speak on the same topic we would be here all night so when debate is over question is called so a lot of times when you're listening to a board meeting you'll hear question it's not that that person has a question it's they're ready for the chair to call the vote I'm I'm we're I think we we we're ready to move past this discussion level let's call for a vote that's what question means then your vote's taken and then the chair announces the the the result of the vote so the vote passed the vote failed how many were in favor how many were against so Robert's Rules of Order you'll find is what the city of Paca typically H will follow it's it's and some boards have their own customer standing rules we all kind of follow Robert's Rules of Order some smaller boards and and I imagine this one will not follow Robert's Rules of War exactly to the te on every single thing mainly we're following them just so that we have a good flow of a meeting and like I said we can get you guys out on a decent hour so the chair some of the chair what the chair's role is a chair must recognize board members before they speak chair may not make motions the chair votes sometimes only to make or break a tie unless the chair is a full member this board like other boards here at the city of Palaca the chair is a full board member and and has the ability to vote the chair preserves order we talked about that and of course what happens if if you're elected vice chair in the event that you're elected vice chair you would serve for the chair in the event the chair is not present we all know things happen that's the reason for having Vice chair can't be at everything all the time that we want to be at okay so on the next slide even though it's kind of acting weird and I know it's very small on the slide so hopefully in your pocket it printed out a little bit better but I've got the Precedence of motions now say say you're in the middle of debating something and you want to know if your motion would carry weight more than the motion that's currently on the floor that is precedence of motions so if if in the middle of a motion someone says I want to to to move to recess that would take precedence that that board member is asking for recess that means you would put your current motion that's on the floor kind of hang it hang it to the side just for a second it's still a valid motion but you try to find try to see if there's a majority of the board that's ready to take a recess and you'll see there the the privilege motions I'll just run through these orders of the day question point of privilege um recess adjourn for which time to adjourn um and then the subsidiary motions to that to propo postpone and definitely amend refer postpone to a certain time or date certain limit or extend limits of debate previous question and table I wanted to at least go through that level because a lot of times you'll hear someone say I want to make a motion to table or I want to make a motion to postpone and the difference between tabling and postponing tabling I want to make a motion to table that means you technically want to come pro barbits will order you want to come back to that during the same meeting if you want to make a motion to postpone or a lot of times you'll hear me as the clerk or the chair say if someone says I want to make a motion to table I'll say to when because sometimes people get confused between the difference of motion to postpone and emotion to table so I'm asking you are you wanting to bring that up here at the same meeting or are you wanting to table it to a time and date certain or postpone to a time and date certain I want to I want to postpone that to the next meeting I want to postpone that to whenever so that's kind of Precedence of motions in a nutshell I won't take you through a quiz because originally this PowerPoint was made for somebody else but uh I'm happy to quiz you later if you if you want a quiz any questions for me on parliamentary procedures I just have a question I don't even know who the chair is who is the chair you guys have not gotten to that point on the agenda to vote for a chair yet thank and when you guys do I'll ask you guys to play musical chairs so that uh you uh you you won't feel the the burden of sitting in the middle thank you all right so we're gonna turn it oh I think in my next Sunshine Law roll call okay I didn't think I was immediately next hold on I'm gonna go back to my seat now I'm going to play my role as clerk now I am coming back and forth in order to guide us through this process is because you don't have a chair yet or a vice chair and once you do select that then that person will take over and guiding us through the rest of the meeting and I will go back to my role of support um so right now let's uh go ahead and move to the roll call process thank you guys um the part of the P part of the purpose of doing a roll call here real quick is just for the record to reflect who's present and who's not present so if you would just allow it to be on the record I've already actually got some of you written this present or not present but we'll go through this pretty quick Miss Annie Davis here miss Jer Mr Jeremy Davis here Mr Tom Dolan present Miss Tiffany Parker Flanders here Tara given is not present for the rec Terell Hill here Teresa Jackson here alra kitchens here Lee Rion is not present for the record Matt Schuler here Audrey wise present Annie zle present and also for the record because we have two members not president Annie's Vetti is sitting in his her in her role as an alternate at this time very good so now that we've had uh the roll call we will move on to the administration of the oath of office so Miss Grant thank you guys and if you guys didn't need probably didn't need to be reminded but to remind you you guys have taken a position um as a government um voluntary board member for that reason you are swearing under oath that you will um perform the duties of a board member of the government so if I could ask you all to please raise rise raise your right hand and repeat after me so when I say I state your name state your name I state your name an appointee of the Palaca City commission to the Charter Review Committee to the Charter committee do solemnly swear or affirm I will Faithfully perform the duties I will Faith perform the duties of my public appointed office to my public office and will support and honor and will support hon the best of my ability to the best of my ability all applicable laws all applicable laws of the State of Florida of the state of Flor putham County County and the City of paca I hereby through this oath affirm I will perform affirm I will perform the duties of this public trust the duties of this public trust in AFF fair in air Equitable and ethical Equitable and eal manner befitting the dignity man beting theity and responsibilities of the office respons thank you all so very much for your volunteer service and you can have a seat and I will ask you guys to please sign this I think I know most of you so I'll follow behind later and notarize your signature and it'll just go that way so now that we um have an official oath of office son and you are officially seated uh we can move on to the the selection of the chair and vice chair and um I will ask um Madame clerk to keep record on uh those people who are interested in uh serving in the chairmanship role so we'll identify who those individuals are chairperson role and then we once we identify those persons we will then move on to a vote to see if those persons have a majority majority until we have an individual who has a majority of those who are seated so if I may yes [Music] ma'am y we're going to do them one at a time chair and then Vice chair that's correct okay thank you yes so and as a housekeeping you've uh all pretty much already um figured it out but the blue button you want to hit that when you're ready to speak and hit it when you're finished speaking um just as a housekeeping if you haven't been in this facility before restrooms ladies and men's rooms are out that outside that door as well so okay uh do we have anybody that might be interested in serving in the chair person role Mr Hill okay may we make a may we nominate somebody else if we're not interested or ourselves absolutely then I'd like to make a nomination okay I'd like to nominate Terell Hill is the chairman okay second motion all right do we have anybody else that uh might be interested we can go ahead and and uh move forward with the with Robert's Rules of Order uh since we have a motion and a second to the motion there's a motion on the floor and we can take a vote on that okay all right all those uh well technically I'm supposed to ask for discussion but I think we can move from discussion into a vote so all those that uh who is going to be your chair for this entity for the charter Review Committee I just don't know everybody's qualific I know ter is the former may but other than that okay um what criteria are we using for selection question the only criteria that you have is your vote but if you have a personal criteria that's that's uh up to you as an individual everybody um has their own uh assessment of what they're looking for in a chairperson role um so technically there is nothing that says that you have to be a certain age or have a certain uh history or pedigree or uh credentials so that's up to you but um your discussion question about uh background is valid so um do does anybody want to you I'm assuming you're ask okay yes any other discussion questions no okay then we can move to a vote uh do you want to do that via roll call Madam okay all those in favor of uh Mr Hill as the chairperson please say I I all those opposed by the same sign seeing no opposition then uh the vote is in favor of Mr Hill as the chairperson so at this time at this time I would turn it over to Mr Hill to conduct the vote for the vice chair uh now we're moving on to the the vote for vice chair uh as it relates to the vote for vice chair um I'll accept nominations at this time for anyone in Vice chair position or nomination M I nominate illegal kit I second the motion y there's a nomination and second on the floor are there any other nominations for by C no are there any are there any other nominations for vice chair seeing none I'll entertain a motion to close the nomination it's a motion to close by M Davis there a second there's a second by Mr Davis all the fa say I I oppos motion carries nominations are closed let's go ahead and vote on the vice chair all in favor of the nomination for vice chair oppos motion carries you welcome our all right we've got our chair and our vice chair um in place we'll now move on to item F on the agenda which is Sunshine Law overview uh we will have our overview for Sunshine just presenting the overview they're going to be Miss Grant again okay Miss Grant hi everybody this is my favorite topic because welcome to the presentation of sunny and the Sunshine the Sunshine Law Florida Florida's government in the sunshine law allows all of the public to have access to their government governmental proceedings at the state and the local levels the scope of sunshine board members cannot discuss anything with each other about the business that is to become before them without it being in a publicly noticed format to make you guys laugh again A lot of times I hear I when I'm met Lyn Tipton's presentations I hear her say where two or more are gathered there the Sunshine Law is in the midst there are three basic requirements meetings of public boards or commissions must be open to the public reasonable notice must must be given and minutes of the meeting must be taken so to kind of tie this in with the previous um slideshow while boards May adopt reasonable rules and procedures to ensure the orderly conduct of the meeting the Sunshine Law does not allow boards to ban non-disruptive videotaping tape recording or photography at public meetings the next slide we'll talk a little bit about the Florida Statutes that that site that all public boards must be noticed to the public the next slide I'm going to go through these pretty quick guys the next slide talks about penalties including civil action Criminal action or removal even from office next next slide starts to flow into the Florida public records law which is our which is also a part of government and the Sunshine under Florida statute chapter 119 all records of a governmental entity or board are open are are open to the public and is a public record the next slide I'll talk to you about what public record means literally it means everything email correspondence text message correspondence um letters videos recordings anything of that nature about about a topic that is to come before you as a board becomes public record public re records disclosure and retention as a voluntary board a lot of what you do is going to be communication with staff because it's communication with staff staff will keep record of that communication provid public records Florida statute says that any member of the public can ACC can can access and be provided reasonable access to public records and a lot of this um is going to go into a little bit more detail um about how long we have to to provide public records um agencies aren't required to answer any questions about the record other than to provide the record and it also allows the custodian of the records to charge a certain fees for copying retention goes back into penalties main thing I can tell you guys is if two or more of you are together you need to contact me so that I can notice that you two or more of you are going to be together it probably will only be in this board meeting and as long as it's called I can I can notice it properly um for those of you that that maybe the Sunshine Law is something new maybe something you haven't heard of the Florida attorney general creates a sunshine manual and the Sunshine manual is available on the Florida Attorney General website um I've got the contact information for the Florida attorney general it's actually their presentation there and there's actually for those of you that this may be a New Concept to you there's a two-hour long presentation to go more in depth about what the Sunshine Law is also available on the Florida attorney general's website but I know a lot of you this this isn't a New Concept so I want to go through it kind of quick to get you guys through on a at a timely manner any questions you guys have for me on Florida and the sunshine just one clarification um it's two or more of you who are together for the purposes of discussing something that's going to be on this board if you're just come together for lunch then you're fine um but for the purposes of discussing something that may come up as a topic within discussions on this committee that's when it becomes particular importance if you're discussing the commission meeting that's going to be on Thursday then that's different unless it's something that may come out of the stuff that we're doing with this board exactly so uh it it doesn't limit your ability to have relation relationships or friendships with people who sit on this board or go to lunch or dinner or something but it limits your ability to sit and talk about um let's just say one of the out article article one of the charter it limits that ability and so that's a piece that's there all right thank you guys and if you have any questions anything comes up later you know how to reach me sunny U I think it this behooves us to discuss about emails to the degree of any correspondence with you anything that we contact you with a request is also considered public record so even a thank you when you're responding which is as polite as we all are it's not necessary not that we're rude it's just that even that has to be documented on public record I'm just saying because I'm a habit of thank you to death and I'm like I forgot no thank you is necessary I just figured I would say that thank you thank you for your comments thank you Mr J okay chair Commissioners Charter Review Committee members I'll go ahead and launch into the substantive portion of your your duties here but I'm just going to add to what Mr Hill just mentioned um if you could just do your best to avoid an appearance of impropriety that is what the Attorney General frequently focuses on and I I know Miss Flanders was getting a little nervous there she's like I'm not going to have anyone come to get my haircut um at anyway if you take a look at the the city Charter um and the entire city Charter is included in your agenda package um I would hold on to this so we don't have to cut down intire forest every single time we have a meeting but this this is it this is the current Charter and and if you start flipping through it you can see quite easily that the overwhelming bulk of it consists of the city's legal description okay so fortunately for us we are able to amend this part of the charter by ordinance thank goodness because otherwise this would be quite the task right so that is the one part of the charter that you can leave alone because that has been automatically updated ated through ordinance for annexations for example it's already codified in our municipal code and you don't need to worry about that however every other part of this Charter is subject to your review so I'd like to launch into uh the PowerPoint presentation if you don't mind sunny and I don't have the clicker with me so I'm just GNA depend on your skill set for going next okay so again Jane West the City attorney please feel free to contact me if you ever have any questions about any of the material that we have discussed here today or any of the additional meetings I will be attending all of your future meetings and so you can rely on me as a staff resource moving forward so very briefly next slide please the authority to amend the city Charter is C ified not only in the Florida Constitution but also by Florida statute and you can see under Florida statute there are a couple of different ways that a municipality can go away go with uh amending their Charter they can do it by the way that we are doing it now or they can also do it by a petition signed by 10% of the registered electors so this isn't the only mechanism for uh reviewing a charter just keep that in mind next slide please so the scope of review we've got a a couple of different articles here that the City commissioners have U specifically requested that you take a deep dive on and that's article two the city commission article three the city manager article four elections because the city of Paka does not do their own elections we need to be mindful of that we depend on putam County Supervisor of Elections to conduct our elections and we're thankful for that because it's an incredible expense but the way the charter is uh currently stated that does not reflect what current practice is is so that's something that we're going to need to address and then finally Article Five miscellaneous perid next slide please okay so article two you're going to see a lot of different sections here um and Miss Tipton went over the the commission manager plan uh she indicated that that is how the overwhelming number of local governments not only throughout the State of Florida but throughout the country are structured we've got section 21 terms of office election dates section 22 residency requirements a bond who is the judge of an election and qualifications again there's that reference to election we're going to need to clean that up in this process section 23 a majority constitutes a quorum the number for adjournment compelling attendance of members vote required for adoption of ordinances resolutions and entrance on Journal these are all we're going to do Deep dive over the course of the next two years on each of these sections right so I'm just I'm just kind of giving you a broad overview of all the different sections that we're going to touch section 24 newly elected time designated for assuming office and regular meetings that can all be adjusted via the charter section 26 pertains to the mayor's power and authority next slide please article three pertains to the city manager article uh 30 o just go back down uh section 37 pertains to removal section 39 pertains to the powers and duties of the city manager next slide please Article Five pertains to miscellaneous Provisions it provides for the Authority for the formation of Charter review commission to review the charter and you as Miss Tipton pointed out you submit those recommended Charter amendments uh you can do that on a scheduled basis and again I'm going to go over the timeline in terms of what our expectations are and this is just to kind of provide you some guidance um but it also like I mentioned before does provide uh The Authority for a citizen initiative process um just based on my personal experience and other jurisdictions that have done Charter reviews when you start hearing from the public that attends your meetings you may find that they're really focused on a particular issue and if you don't happen to agree as a committee that you want to move forward with their what they're pushing um they have the option to go ahead and initiate a referendum process so just keep that in mind next slide please at the end of the day this is what the end product of all of your work is going to look like your question and I pulled this off of St Augustine Beach because I I had um experience there but basically the the question that is going to be posed to the voters needs to be set up in a simple yes or no format so they understand unlike amending the Florida Constitution which has a legal requirement for a single subject rule we don't have that requirement here however my legal advice would be to keep this simple as possible if you start packing too much into that yes or no question you're going to confuse the voter and you're not going to get the result that you're you're striving for so for example um here in in St Augustine Beach we had a height limitation issue because there was concern among the residents of St Augustine Beach there was concern that it was going to start looking like Daytona Beach and they really wanted to have a height limitation so um it was limited to 35 feet in height um doesn't include architectural features or any roof structures so long as such features and items do not extend more than 10t above the structure I can tell you even though this seems like pretty simple and clear there was a lot of controversy when a big hotel came into town um so it's really important to try and you know work with each other converse with each other throw out those hypothetical so you can kind of weed out hey how could this potential language go sideways um so that's that's on you to try and figure that out um but at the end of the day that's what we're looking for is is a yes or no question for the voters next slide please so what's the process you are tasked with reviewing the charter obviously you can research topics and then report back to this committee you can assign each other research topics right some of this stuff is going to get really in the weeds you may need to lean staff we are all here to help guide you through the process and there are also a lot of really good resources out there the the model um Charter review um Florida League of cities you've got a lot of resources also these are public meetings I don't know I'm doing wrong here but um obtain public input and feedback you can host workshops you can have your um meetings take place at different venues although I know that's going to make sunny cringe but you can go to the Elks Lodge you can go to different venues um to present topics and get that public input draft amendments to the Charter for consideration by the city commission based upon all that research and public input and then finally you're going to submit agreed upon amendments to the city commission and that's that April 2026 time frame after you make those recommendations to the city commission it is out of your hands you may have recommendations that are 10 pages long to our Charter right but at the end of the day it's the city commission that votes on whether to add those amendments to the 2026 ballot in the form of a referendum so that's that's a lot of work and it it is my great hope that the City commissioners value your incredible time and energy going into this process um but just so you know at the end of the day it is their decision on whether or not to accept your recommendations and then finally we vote um for the 2026 general election next slide please so here are the deadlines that are really important to keep in mind we have worked together uh Mr Bell um and uh Miss CR and I have worked together to kind of backtrack what these deadlines are going to be um so basically that's working off of a 90-day time frame before the election where the supervisor of elections has to have this in hand okay so we work back from that and keeping in mind that the city of pla only has one city commission meeting per month in the summer months so that's also a factor here so April 14 2026 it's the agenda deadline for the charter Review Committee to be ready to present to the city commission so if you have a PowerPoint slide uh presentation um a white paper whatever you have you have to have it ready to be placed on the agenda by April 14th 2026 and then um on April 23rd you will be making a presentation to the city Commission on all of your recommendations um I'm assuming that that would be your newly elected chair but obviously that's that's up to you um May 14th you would have the first reading the second reading and then we will go ahead and submit those amendments to the supervisor of elections to be placed on the ballot um in November of 2026 next slide please do you have any questions this is my contact information this is my direct line if you call the city my extension is 219 and that's my email address and feel free to contact me anytime you're also welcome to just swing by my office I love visitors but unfortunately I'm in a non-ada building so you have to climb the stairs but I'm happy to come downstairs to meet you any questions no great congratulations oh of course Miss Davis so we're I'm assuming going to focus on the content of the reviews so scrier errors right there are a lot and as you look through the charter you're also going to find that this was clearly written back in the day where only men held positions of authority and elected positions so you may want to consider having some gender neutral uh language inserted in the charter um and you know you you've got a lot of discretion here um you can have focus on um equality be a major component of uh a charter Amendment because currently it is silent on that um I've seen some really cool things that other cities throughout the State of Florida have done with their Charters um for example in incorporating a a a right of nature in their Charters um emphasizing that you know any uh surplusage of uh City owned Parks has to have a super majority vote really cool stuff um and it it really kind of shapes the entire future of the city of fla um so it's it's exciting but you have a lot of discretion there yeah there are a whole bunch of little erors there yes Tiffany said it's a years ago Char well miss miss CR has actually embarked on a little bit of uh historical rabbit hauling uh would you like to show them what is here so they have some historical context just go ahead and let Miss CR give us a history lesson yes it's actually quite interesting it is and and I think one of the things that we need to also know is that Paca Incorporated in 1853 is actually one of the first commission manager based government systems in the state of Florida so we were kind of the the foundation for what we have as a model government standard now so I hope all of you will get an opportunity to come by and out this table before you leave but to kind of quickly give you an idea of kind of the rabbit hole that I've went down um the city of patka was originally the town of patka it and I get that reference from an 1849 the original charter of County p i l a TKA of course the rumor is that and I haven't found this in research in these documents yet but the rumor is that we were getting confused with the town of Picola so for mailing purposes they changed us to palaka which our original charter of 1853 um calls us the town of Palatka um I don't actually have copy of the charter of 1853 original unfortunately there was a big fire that happened in 1884 my assumption is that the big fire and the charter of 1853 might be connected but I don't know that for certain um needless to say after the big fire of 1884 we have the charter of 1887 somewhere after the charter of 1887 we find a newspaper article saying that they've declared the charter of 1887 to be illegal so needless to say a charter Review Committee met and I am I'm I'm grateful to say that I actually found the charter review committee's minutes and their draft of the charter and then I have not very well-kept unfortunately and I will make SE corrections to fix that um is the charter of 1923 which is the charter that we use today as amended and if anybody is interested in the Amendments from 1853 to 1925 I have list here that the State of Florida has sent me so I just wanted to take a step back and tell you guys this is truly a historic moment for the city of Paca in our history and in our lifetimes we do not think that the charter was reviewed um now I will tell you the commission formal government of obviously commissioner the commission manager formal government came to be U within our lifetime so with that exclusion but it's been a long time so I'm very privileged to to be witnessing history here before you guys and I thank you again from the bottom of my heart for your volunteer service sure so how important is the Char really if you can wait a 100 years you know I mean well it's it's a good question um and it asks not only how important it is but how remiss those that are uh fiduciaries for the community are so it's a balancing um if you have a really great Charter maybe you can wait that long we have a constitution and if you look at the Constitution of the United States um the Bill of Rights and you we were only uh a few amendments into it over the many years of this of this nation so um they seem to have done a good job and coming out of the gates but they also offered the opportunity for changes so yes ma'am I'd like to point out that while the charter is 100 years old it's very very good and it's worked very very well and over the years it has been amended many many times I believe I heard the City attorney say during a commission meeting the last time it was amended was 2006 so it is not our cake I read through it I found a couple of things where it said he instead of she or her I mean instead of him or her it referred to he which didn't bother me in the least and I found a couple of words that were one word that was used twice it was archaic and it it related to the word choices but other than that I didn't see anything basically wrong with it it's been a darn good Charter it's worked very well for the city of plaque for all these years and as Miss West our City attorney said it just needs to be tweaked a little bit but we have a really really good document right and I think the other thing that's important is for example you look at the St Augustine Beach piece on the 30 35 feet foot the 35 foot height for a building we have ordinances that address those things and so opportunities even with some of the stuff that we'll discuss which may be you know the perfect time for recommendation for an ordinance change as opposed to something that goes on referendum just understand that when it goes on the ballot as a referendum then it costs money and so there there are things that we can simply change throughout processes there may be opportunities um suggestive wise to see to talk to counsel or talk to the manager and see where the other opportunities exist for us to be able to do those things that can be implemented simply through commission action um this committee is this is something that I've been harping on for eight years and I know Miss kitens has talked about it there are some places where Paca can change um the Dynamics of what been there historically and there's some places where government has changed since the Inception of the document and I think it's really important as we look at it I don't know if may you recall when the CRC was put in place for the State of Florida how Monumental that time was um as it relates to certain things are in place so whether it's Constitution revision or it's you know the charter revision these are the major pieces which which really build on the framework of what our government is going to be for us locally we're different from Miami we're different from Daytona we're different from St Augustine we're different from greenco and these are the places where you're able to create the foundations which lead to those differences so that as the the people who follow you begin to look at go government in Palaca they have a guideline as to where they go and I think that's really what this is all about and uh I will say um you mentioned the incorporation in 1853 manager Hill um and I yes um I will say that as a member of the um icma committee for councelor manager or commission manager former government and I said on that committee and I said on the committee uh same Committee in Michigan that uh we often reference the fact that uh Paca ironically um is the very first or or very close to the first in the State of Florida and so for the commission manager former government and so I think it's important to realize and I say ironically because here I end up uh being the manager here um but it the things that you're doing people are watching it and it's important because it is noted nationally um across the country so and yes I was trying to give you a promotion there chairman [Laughter] Hill there any other comments or questions at this time I have a question I have a question about my position so I'm a member at large what does that really mean uh does it mean that I still have like uh can I still vote if everyone is here what does my position mean right alternate so alter as an alternate the way that you vote or you participate in the process on that particular day is if you got a member missing okay right but but I'm still required you're required to be here because at any point you step in okay you're like you're like the backup quarterback right now at any point you can go in and you can you can be you can be the person that we look to to win the game oh okay and then I have one more question I believe Sunny said this already but um the meetings are published they are going to be in the paper with the agenda or what the topic we're going to discuss um they are subject to public record request um and we will um make sure that we provide notice so that the public can participate and attend meetings the meetings will be noticed and I think what I would want to see from this committee is that we set our own agenda moving forward I think the first task for us is going to be looking at the charter and then coming back with our ideas and we create our own framework and direction of how we meet how frequently we meet and where we go from there and that'll be kind of our next task at our next meeting you and I I see Miss Weston AR in the head so I we're seem like we're on the same page that relates and so I think that's where we fill in the rest of the blanks so what we're doing is working backwards from the deadline yes to finding the time so that we can start to build our own framew work and if we find subject matter where we need to you know meet more frequently then we can do that and I think that's kind of where we are I can all but guarantee you that Miss Grant will be calling you and making sure that you're coming so that we'll have those things in place and then we can kind of work off of um doodle to get us where we need to be as far as setting dat because I know everybody's really busy and I'll will say that attorney West did a great job in going through the structure of the charter as it is but it is up to this group to decide do you want to delve into each of those areas or some of those areas um and pick and choose so it is up to this body to make that determination and so and I agree I I think that this board has the ability to look at any piece of the chart and to be able to make a decision and the framework is the the pieces that we're outlined or just the those that's a road map that's to some of the things that are that need attention and then there are there are other things that you may find in your reading because I'm sure um you know as we get into it you'll see things that'll make you start to ask questions or want to look at and say well does this really make sense today and and this there you can always have those things placed in for discussion as well through the chair yes ma'am question I heard the presentations and I heard your comment regard regarding some of the things that POA had put in place to amend being that it was such a long time in between the charters will we have that information prior to will we have that meat and potatoes that's already been corrected through the different uh resolutions or changing that the uh commission did prior to us going through this entire document so the reality of it is it would fill this room um as it relates to a lot of the changes that were there so you will have road maps such as the document that Miss CR picked up which will show you where some of the amendments were um and some of the things have been amended in different ways I I'll give you an example of something that Paca does that's different than most communities as it relates to just take commission salary for example um un commmission salary commission salary can be basically amended by voter the commission and through and it's been and sometimes that salary changes or it's cost of living increases going to it in other places the charter says a commissioner is going to make a hundred bucks a month and until there's a referendum in place Commissioners from 1920 to 2024 are going to make a hundred bucks a month and those things have to be done by action and then you see a lot of commissions start to address things such as that um so we and so I think when it comes down to say you get to our you know we're talking section 25 and you want to say hey I want to see what Amendments have been in Place most of it's going to be listed as amended in the script um and what year it is and you can start to ask Miss CR or ask counselor or ask the city manager to give you that information as to what was the amended language um but typically the language that you see today is the most modern language unless it's something that's been in place now since the Inception any other comments on that or anybody want to add anything to that um chairman uh just to give you an example of what uh chairman Hill was talking about on page 133 of the chart I think it's 133 of the packet you have it's under section 24 where it's talking about uh newly elected time designated for assuming office if you read down at the bottom is a little parentheses and it says laws of Florida and then it says ordinance number 93- 32 and that refers and it's 1993 that refers to the pla ordinance that uh that changed this so at the bottom of each section it'll be noted the Florida laws and then the ordinance that changed it and the ordinance is related to the date that changed it so you can go to a specific section and then you can see the reference like Mr Hill said at the bottom okay that was my question I saw those references and I didn't know if you I saw those references and I didn't know if it was something even more than no a lot of a lot of immunity code so when you immunity code you can put in reference it'll pull it up and if not it flirt typically has an archive that can get to it as well and then that that way you can kind of see what the the transition and thought is and it's always good it's kind of like um kind of like us looking at case law as attorneys and you realize that the Law changes over a period of time no differently than some of the standards change for whether it's accounting or anything else Mr chair yes sir and in addition to that if you do have questions uh about particular sections we we are available to do more of a deeper dive on that you can always request that from us staff any other questions or comments and so now that we've gone over the scope of work for the committee um got an idea of what resources we have available to us I think we're going to continually we're going to continue to move as we get deeper into this process um and so we'll we'll go from there um I'll go ahead and close this time um the agenda item as it relates to item one through G we'll move on to public comment uh public comments will be limited 3 minutes no action will be taken on topics of discussion anyone here wishing to speak during public comment there's a speaker card in the back of the room please fill that out we'll open the floor for public comment just a that make noise anymore and seeing no one here for public comment we'll close public comment that is the quietest Gabel in the world so moving on to regular business regular business is determining the frequency of meetings which we just kind of delved into just now and so I will open the floor for a suggestion as to how frequently we will meet is there anyone who has an immediate idea so how frequently you think we should meet Mr chairman I I'll go to Miss Davis then we we'll defer we defer the black Heights thank you Mr Hill uh I was looking at my calendar in the various city meetings and everything and I thought perhaps that if we met every the month to start with we're coming up on the summer and during the summer the city has budget meetings roughly from June through August I don't know right now what the dates will be but it could conflict with any meetings but I think if we do every other month to start with and then if we need to meet after the first couple of times we meet I think then we'll know how often we need to meet and it might be once a month it might be more than that but I would think that and then there's certain days of the week when we get to that that we should not meet at certain time we don't want to meet when the city commission meets we got the bond committee the school board there's other meetings so we need to work around that and I've chosen a maybe a good time for it but I'll get that later when Mr Hill ask for it okay one recommendation is for is for every other month is there another recommendation I don't have a recommendation but I have a question um can we pay the mortgage early and so what I mean by that I know we're talking about two years and the deadline and we're backing up from that are we um working to use all that time and there's no benefit to getting done early because we're trying to get it on the 2026 so if s sure so if we were to try and get it on the 2024 general election we would have to have everything all your recommendations into the supervisor of elections 90day vote we we can't do it it's just too tight um the alternative to General 2026 is to host a special election um we don't recommend that because it's expensive and you don't get the turnup so this this is the date we're dealing with right so so does that question also Encompass just the fact of saying hey can we get can we get the stuff that we need done prior to two-year period and then we just hand it over to the city to deal with for the for the election cycle absolutely yeah chairman I'm a proponent of momentum versus when people here two years oh well I just momentum and yes you're correct right I I mean I think staff would even be elated if we finish a little earlier but I think that Target date is put out there as a drop dead date more than anything else just to let us know where the supervisor election has to be in place any other recommendations yeah I think if you talk about momentum um once every two months I think um that's too long of a period in between I would recommend once a month we don't know how much and we can always change it to once every two months but we don't know how much we going to cover we don't know how much discussion we need so I find that kind of a long period in between yes ma'am I picked that time because of the board the bond oversight committee with the school administration which I'm on uh we started meeting once a month and we decided we didn't need to meet actually once a month but we can always meet once a month if we need to and as to the length of time uh yes we want momentum but you must remember one thing we not running a race we are changing the Constitution perhaps changing the Constitution of the State of Florida and you need to take your time you need to think about it very carefully you need to look at the current uh the charter you need to be very very careful because what you're doing today is not a knee-jerk thing that's going to be over next week it's going to affect the city maybe for the next 15 or 20 years so you need to take your time and I think definitely during the summer months every other month is better because of all the meetings but naturally if you all decide to meet once a month that's fine too but there's so many other meetings but yet that's up to the that's up to the committee but I just want to explain why we need to take our time momentum's good sometimes but not in this particular case but if I'd be pleased if we finish early through the chair M I come back to you Mr chair I move that we meet every other month until um through the through the through the summer and then revisit our meeting frequency at that time I second that motion if you're if you're moving that I will second that if you're not and we talk a discussion we can talk about it but I truly believe that we should be about the people's business honestly and if when we need to slow our role we could slow our role but uh I truly believe every other month during the summer because people do have vacations m people have committed themselves X Y and Z and once the summer is over we need to give be about people's business so I got a motion on the floor a second and I'm full of discussion as well um so there's a motion on the floor in a second is there any further discussion as relates to the motion M opened the the discussion up question has been called all in favor say I I I oppose motion carries I meant to ask a question what day is summer officially over like waiting to move back to Florida all November 2 I just want to know when we are going to readdress it so the city commission summer month ends after the August meeting okay and so that's so their summer months for the city commission is June July August and that's when they go to one meeting a month so we'll kind of follow suit as it relates to that fiscal year is going to end um on September 30th and so that puts us where we need to be um so we're as of now we'll come back in two months and are you gonna send out a a a doodle to try to see what date works best for everybody I can if that's what the Comm would like that works I think that worked well for us she sent out the the date survey for us to all l in the dates that are available may I may I just ask kind of what the consensus is versus during our meetings versus after meetings Mr I had when I was looking at the dates at home I felt that the third Thursday of the month would be the best one that bypasses City commission and various other meetings that happen Wednesdays there's meetings there some people go to Bible study uh Tuesdays there's meetings at the city Monday There's CRA meetings some sometimes so I felt that the third Thursday of the month that way you avoid the city commission meetings when you're meeting during the months that they actually meet so I thought the third Thursday of each month might be a good time to meet it's just a suggestion thank you it's also that's Northeast Florida Le of cities so um let's if we can play by ear if everybody's okay with that let's use doodle as a way to kind of figure out what from a from a majority standpoint creates the the most time because I can tell you I don't know which Thursday I'm going to have something crazy come up but I think and I think most of us are in that in a very similar position but if we can um we can use doodle I think doodle will put us in a position where we can start to figure out what days work best what what times work best and how we can get the masses in and so we'll do that and we'll try to keep it like it is now towards the end of the month so that we stay consistent with the time if that works any other comments or questions okay moving on uh task members with areas of research so do we want to go ahead and do that now or to task everyone with an area of research or do we want to for the first meeting want everybody to try to have the assignment of reading the entire uh we can read the entire Charter and then we can come back and break it down into sections I think that's Mr chair I suggest that we uh do that for the next meeting that gives us more time those of us that may have not have read the charter and get familiar with it and I think that would be best is on our next agenda this is like a two-year homework assignment so we're we're good okay so for the first for our first homework assignment we're going to go ahead and read the charter and everyone come back and you're gonna I guarantee you're going to read about three times before you actually start to get some of the stuff but we'll read through the charter um at that point I think if you take notes and look at your areas of Interest you'll start to realize like where your eyes are going to land and so we'll do that and when we come back to our second meeting we'll start to divide up into subgroups if we need to based upon what we see as as the pertinent areas um and then we've got our deadlines our deadlines have been laid out to us by Miss West I think that was a great presentation to give us the points of where we needed to be and then um our Miss Wes will come back and reiterate our our final deadlines for um for September U 2026 no no no we'll do it at the next meeting at the next meeting and then and then we'll break down I guess at that point we'll decide how we're going to when we give reports to the city commission and what the period is going to be for that as well and so those are all the items that we have for us today um before we close out Mr Bell do you have anything else for us no I was just going to mention the uh the dates for the deadlines are already included in your package that you're up against and so that was already laid out for you so other than that we're g we're going to call the pH paying the mortgage early right so uh Mr B I've gone through Miss West you have anything else for us Mr planner you've been quiet for us today you got anything I can guarantee they we'll be talking to you soon miss CR you got anything no sir just excited to work with the commanding Miss Wise Mr Schuler kitchens Miss Jackson you've been Qui Miss STI over here on this other side Mr dolanan I'll have it before next meeting I'm must my homework assignment and Mr Davis there's nothing else before I can take a motion to adjourn no uh no I don't have anything Mr chair I miss you okay you finished I'm sorry no no no worries and I moved to a journ we're in our joury