e this is a test of the city of pla audio system e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e the ones I ordered how came in e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening everybody and welcome to the city of Palaca special call City Commission meeting we're calling this meeting to order on July 25th 202 4 at 6 p.m Miss cran could you read the not special call meeting notice please thank you to Commissioners Tammy mcal Justin Campbell senior will Jones and Rufus moram you're hereby notified a special called meeting of the pla City commissions called to be held on July 25th 2024 at 6 o'clock of City Hall 2011 North Second Street PL Florida 32177 the purpose of the meeting is regarding formulation of the city strategic plan and the city's Mission Vision Values and the goals for the city manager sign Roberto MCA mayor thank you is Pastor malberry no okay invocation from commissioner Campbell and the pledge commissioner M please if you would bow your hair dear heavenly father God we thank you for this day we thank you for your grace and your mercy God we ask that as we go throughout this meeting God that you give us the wisdom the knowledge and the understanding to make the decisions to move this city forth we pray this prayer and all other prayers in your name amen amen please pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all we are going to open the floor up to ro oh Ro I mean I can see you're here but Ro please sorry commissioner Tammy MCO here commissioner Justin Campbell pres commissioner W Jones commissioner Rufus Forum pres mayor Robbie kah pres all members pres and count for there's a quum thank you and now we'll open the floor to public comments please limit your public comments to three minutes and no decisions will be made at this time I do have a Cod M Duke please give your name and address for the record have the mic on is it on okay I'm Vicky Duke I live at 105 Carriage Terrace Paca Florida I just wanted to first it's an honor to even get to speak in a group um before y'all as um I think as we see things with our government I just feel honored that we still get to do this in a forum um I I'm here to complain about the situation that happened at the last City Commissioner's meeting I was shocked at the disrespect that was shown to our mayor and the Discord that was going on and it was disappointing to see that and we all have a bad day and I hope I never see this happen again at one of the City commissioners meetings I was very disappointed thank you is there anybody else here for public comment seeing none more close public comment and we'll move on to regular business the first item of business is discussion Direction resolution 2024 r153 Miss CR thank you resolution 2024 r153 resolution of the city of FL authorizing the execution of a retention agreement with Sniff and and Melman PA for the purpose of an employment investigation amending the fiscal year 20232 24 budget providing an effective date and providing for scrier SS thank you commissioner mastal since you're the point person do you have anything else to contribute or information to shff I uh reached out to following the meeting um once we agreed to conduct an investigation I reached out to our labor attorney Mrs ER erly who um referred me to sniffen and Spelman and I think I sent that information to um Mrs CR and ask that she forward it to the commission did that happen Okay so if everyone receive that with a proposal from the from the um Law Firm um of their services from there um I was guided she um informed me that it would take about 10 weeks to conduct an investigation if you all have read that I don't need to say it I mean we can talk about it um about 10 weeks um to conduct a thorough investigation so that their their firm could be fair and impartial to both parties um with that being said I did inform her of the city city manager's uh date of um his probationary period ending she wanted to make sure that they had enough time to conduct a thorough investigation so she suggested that I reach back out to the labor attorney Mrs erly and see if he would be friendly to extending days on his probationary period she recommended at least 30 days to make sure that she their their firm had time enough to interview any all parties that are involved have the opportunity to interview Mr Bell as well as anyone that he would like to have interviewed so that it could be fair and impartial um Mrs early provided a letter to Mrs CR did you receive that sent me an email and I did you receive that Mrs CR and disperse it to the Commission in and it is that a yes did you give it to the commission yes did we all receive a letter and it was requesting for Mr B to at least uh extend his probationary period for a time frame of 20 extra days um the letter did indicate that he um had not provided an answer as to rather whether or not he would agree with this ension so that's where we are um we can't they cannot proceed they they they do not want to proceed without having enough time to conduct investigation and being fair again to both parties so we're there we're here if y'all have any questions I did speak with um and the the the actually they say that it would be a team of three attorneys Don White Hurst would be the lead attorney Michael spel with help and Mark Logan she said they like to use a team concept because they like to have various um varying viewpoints V it provides various backgrounds um the the cost um will not exceed $30,000 um the amount that they would uh charge is $375 per attorney however all attorneys will not be working all at the same time they will work on different things it may be one attorney that conduct the interviews however when everything is done and if it's reaching the $30,000 point they will let us know um and let us know the direction that we would like to go in um however at the end as well when the investigation is completed if we decide to go in that direction then we'll all collaborate at the end and share what they find the findings and go from there any questions of commissioner go ahead the candle uh first thank you um commissioner mcal for leading the charge and taking the lead on this I just have two concerns my first concern is the um anticipated amount that it could reach $30,000 um I feel that this that it's a bit excessive with regards to um an invest tigation of this sort but again it may dive into something that we don't know so I just want to for the record uh put it out there that I am a tad bit concerned with regards to the amount and second I'm a tad bit concerned I know as we had the other meeting when we were a part of the other meeting um some had some questions with regards to or concerns with regards to um Miss attorney elderly um providing the rep Representatives who she deemed would be appropriate um to lead this investigation but one thing that I'm have B concern was that instead of her using you as a liaison that she went directly to Mr Bale to ask if he was willing to extend his contract versus going through you and getting that information to come through the commission who employs him to even see if that was something that we was going to consider but her making direct contact with him I did not agree with and it um kind of alluded to the point of the level of transparency that citizens have brought forward um when we were having that conversation so overall those are my two major concerns and I felt that it was appropriate for it to be talked about at this time so it can be taken in consideration but I'll yield and I love to hear what the remainder of those who have not had the opportunity to speak yet to hear what they have to say with regards oh if I can answer your two questions first so um with the amount um I thank you for sharing your concerns but to me when we have concerns that were shared putting the price tag on people's Health possib possible health and $30,000 we we have $5,000 each in our line and our uh commission lines which toal us $225,000 but we do Community give community events so I have a problem when we put a price tag on the possibility of a work environment impacting our employees health so that's my take on that um I can't control you know what a price is but you know investigations are rather expensive um that's what they charge I did reach out because I was um that was one that she recommended however I did reach out to um another firm uh Yolanda Cash Jackson to see if they could recommend or had any other references to be fair um I reached out to them on July 17 2024 8:48 a.m. and have not received a a return call um back um one of my questions tonight was going to be if you all wanted to refer or had anybody else any other references um that you all would like for me to reach out to um when I spoke to Mrs early about the extension she did ask me um just to make sure of following Pro following protocol she wanted to um reach out to the mayor and inform her and she did ask about reaching out to Mr Bill to see if he would be friendly to extend his contract because she is the labor attorney and just asking those questions so not getting involved in in investigation on one of the the things that the firm did uh give me advice on and guidance on is that they're not well not advice because they're only to conduct investigation but not to advise but she uh guided me and told me to reach back out to the labor attorney so that she can reach out because it's her job to see if he was friendly to extend this contract thank you commissioner Bor do you have anything contribute said ask since she just going in order like that but well my my only issues and concerns are first is um we we're talking about an investigation um generally there's some documented U things associated with an investigation or what have you and again I did reach out to the um City uh HR and um there was nothing in nobody's file as it related to a uh investigation or what have you and again I and miss and it was alluded that Miss there a possibility that it was in well kind of like an indirect thing that Miss Jones could have been part of the process and I made sure that that wasn't the case so um that being said I think that Miss Jones should have been leading this whole effort as it relates to the making the contact with any external um people if there was an investigation but first before we even start investigating we need to have something in writing General that people have um they file a grievance they file a grievance uh with the and and it was not HR so HR as out of the loop so they would follow with HR HR would then take the necessary steps to move in in in those directions to make sure that things are friendly and proper so again that's one piece where I have a issue with as it relates to the investigation and the other piece is the cost associated with that um the $30,000 uh cost and I just heard any uh comment about um impacting somebody's Health uh I don't know what's going on but I don't know if you know the research has been done and they specifically said that whatever Happened Here contributed to the person's health or whoever is impacted I'm not sure so we just got to we want to make sure that we taking care of our employees but we want to make sure that things are done properly and done Fair done decent and just uh that's what we're all about um I'm I'm one big guy who who look really go to B back for the employees and I have done that on many CA occasions and um so I got a record of that but again the way that I think this is going I think we're we're not going the right process in in terms of doing that before mayor if I may just out of precaution do and we don't have legal here to address it but is it an opportunity for us to have Mr Bale EX at the room while we're having discussion on part A because the investigation is about him and I'm concerned about confidentiality I would make the recommendation if at all possible for item a um because it's solely about the Investigation Services that we are talking about and not so much um and when we get to Item B to invite him back because that's where he makes the decision but I think that as we talk about the investigative portion and the retaining of service is that um that needs to be amongst us commissioner mastle is next well I had my last piece I just I missed that point but it's just the finish up just the finish up please finish up in terms of uh uh you know and then the other piece in terms of um extending the uh probationary period from 130 days and your I 18 days and you're adding another 20 or 30 uh I'm not friendly to that either because what we should have done in the beginning in terms of uh uh dealing with Mr Bell and the contract and everything all of that was already set in place so additionally add an additional time to it um I think the the the process can still go forward I think without adding additional time to a probationary I just don't think that's right on um in on his behalf and I I just want to be fair in that regard thank you um Mr Bill could you please consider leaving the room so we can further discuss and we'll let you know when to return thank you and prefer to go into a space where yeah and prefer to go to a place where there's no audio that's being listened to that's what I was about to say if I made Madam I have overlow speakers on would you like them off yes please okay the short mcco okay I want to um respond to the um can I clarify and again I want the citizens to know the only reason that I ask that he be removed is that we're speaking directly to the retaining of the services that could who's doing the investigation and I don't feel that it's deemed appropriate for him to hear the conversation as it pertains to what we as a we as a decision making unit have to consider when it comes down to him making the decision about the extension of course we would invite him back in but as far as the retaining of the services and what we would like to see entail in the services that's why I ask him to be removed from the room thank you commissioner M okay I would like to um respond to the uh when Mr commissioner borum's uh statement about alluding to HR and saying that she was a possible person uh that shared a concern I mentioned that we want to identifying folks who may not could be a part of the process of elimination of identifying folks that may have brought concern so I wanted to make sure that I protect the identity of the individuals that have provided the concerns to me so I didn't allude that she was one but making sure that we are not able to easily identify because he still is their um direct supervisor also the extension of the investigation was suggested to be fair and impartial on both for both parties to make sure that it's not rushed to make sure that not only the folks that have the concerns are inest instigated but for him to have the opportunity to be questioned and provide Witnesses and they said it would they told me the amount of time it would take and it would be Beyond his uh probationary period so that was the reason that we asked for it commissioner Bor just just to respond to that the question well the response from commission m we would have not even been at this venue talking about the HR person leading this effort um because when we when when the issue was first brought up I brought that up that that that we should have HR leading the process that's what I and that's what I brought up in the beginning and then there was a rebuttle that said that what if it's HR or the uh the the individual for HR that's the that's how we got to where we are right now with the conversation but we would not be here had it not been for that particular comment because I had already made it clear in the beginning that how that process how that process works and that if we had anything against anybody that should have been a griev grievance it should have gone to HR that's what I said and and and HR would handle it from their reaching out to the correct agencies and so there was a rebut that said well what if it's not so that was not the right process I think HR and I still think that HR should have been handed commissioner Campell thank you mayor um with regards to the time there's an ask for an additional 20 days to be provided but if I heard correctly and read correctly Ally there is an 10 week time frame that they state that it would be um in order to do a thorough um so if they're asking or they're saying that it's a 10 week in order to do a thorough investigation um where did the 20 days come from just out of curiosity from my understanding um there was some reluctance in extending the time frame so to try to work with the individual the the days were um ask you know U 20 days for asked in L of 30 to 60 um I can tell you that the law firm did not again did not recommend that however just to be friendly and to try to make sure uh to support the Mr Bale they um asked for 20 and in lower 30 or 60 also again I want to State um that investigations cost money that's understood but I'm very I want us to be very cautious of the possible impact of us not conducting a an investigation or associating associating or tying money to individuals health we don't know what the I know that we don't we we have not you all are not aware of the concerns that were brought to my attention and I shared but I do want us to be mindful please of of connecting those two so uh I I don't want it to appear as if we are um but we're physically respon physical uh responsible for the finances of this community and so asking questions doesn't make it appear we just want Clarity and we want transparency and not saying that we haven't but again we're asking questions so that those who may have come to us um in our times not sitting on the diets uh these are some of the con questions and some of the concerns that we may have had but I do have a um comment slash concern I would make the recommend well not recommendation I'll be a little apprehensive to ask for an extension of an important investigation versus US asking for an extension because we didn't do what we were supposed to do in order to provide him uh guidance in his role as city manager hence the reason why the meeting prior was called to have that statement made so that we would be able to proceed and then we accepted an emergency item which again um nothing against it but I I I think that there's a whole lot here and I think there are things that are disclosed even in his contract with regards to termination or Severance that are clearly laid out that in the event that the investigation um was to want certain things that there can be termination without um Severance um so listed with the things that are under Section Five which is stated termination Severance of pay a through F clearly lays out more specifically in uh section c the various ways that in the event anything was to come as a result of the investigation that Wars termination that Severance is not to be an option unless we as a commission thank you desire it to be um that so I want to make sure that that's clearly identified and put out um on the Forefront but I also do have another another question have we taken in consideration contacting the Florida Commission of Ethics who does things like this for free so I'm glad that that was mentioned again I asked the question um I took the charge I was allowed to take the charge I reached out to a firm I attempted to reach out reach out to another one this is just a proposal that they provided however my question was if we have any other ones that we would like to reach out to that's something that we can do again I have a problem when we ask for an external investigation to be conducted with us and I know the proper protocol is to go go through HR HR may or may not be a person that have has provided information to me but I want to do be as cautious as possible with identifying any of the employees that provided me with information I completely agree but I think um in most organizations if there was something to be formal that was brought to there is a proper grievance that should be filed and it's to my understanding based on the conversation or the dialogue that commissioner borm has brought forth that there is no official grievance even if there was to be something as a result of the investigation knowing that it was going forth and grievance was to come forth again it's hard for us to have a conversation when we don't know exact L what's going on so I would ask you this question being that the person came to you is there any written documentation that should be provided to commission either via email or something that was submitted to you that should be provided to us as the commission so that we can have a better Insight um as to what the investigate or what the complaint is because again in other organizations should there be a complaint or a grievance it goes through and it's on we can say for the executive director or the CEO or whoever sits at the head that tends to go to the individuals which it did go to you so again I want to just know if there is something that we as a commission may be able to Feast upon that allows us to give because again we don't want to appear that we're putting a price on anything but then again we should be in the no as of now being that it's in the open uh more specifically that if there is any type of communication that we should be aware we should have it as a part of any packet that we take into consideration so that we are all on the same page and not being fed information once we get to a meeting on the diet so that's why I just want to know if there is anything written or was this a private conversation that was had amongst you and the individual or individuals that may have had or may have warranted this but again if there is something in writing I would like to know so that we would be able to have that same information very good question and again we're all here together and learning together so I'm glad that the individuals did share verbally however um I do have individuals that are willing to write statements but they want to make sure that they are protected again I'm new to this we're all new to this they they shareed their concerns um and I felt compelled to make sure that I Shar because I didn't want to hold information knowing that it was being shared with me and not following proper protocol to get the information out um subsequently I do have um a letter that was submitted to me from a pre a prior employ employer whose name I did provide um but they're no longer employee but I do have documentation that was sent um to me um also an employee did um inform me that they filed a grievance but the grievance was not or wanted to file a grievance and followed the policy the pro the process of the policy um and it was basically hindered um I guess allegedly the person wanted to file the grievance spoke with the city manager the city manager wanted to speak to that individual um the was never any followup allegedly so that wanted to be filed was it against the city manager that he wanted to talk or I'm trying to follow so that's why I'm asking agreements was uh uh wanted to be filed however agance on who the city manager so they went to the city and again I'm trying to make sure that I got to understand a grievance was the individual wanted to file the a grievance against the city manager however the city manager allegedly wanted to sit and speak with the individual I think they did I think they had an employee here in an organization that got involved um there was never any followup from that from the city manager allegedly there was never any followup so the person really their bike was against the wall um not able to go to another employee because they're having some Discord issues in the in the I I just want to be cautious of what I share I'm a I completely understand but then if you understand I I I have to be cautious of what I share but what the what I'm I'm I'm sympathetic to that however in order for us to be able to fully support we need to be provided as much information as possible so if you all would give me guidance I can have those individuals to write statements what we have to be cautious of and this is what they shared with me they Shar the information with me verbally however they're concerned about retaliation that was one of the things that they shared because he is their direct super be under so when I brought this to our attention all of us together learning at the same time we agreed to an independent investigation I am not Savvy in this am doing the best that I can and but my ultimate goal is to protect employes and make sure that we address their concerns and these questions are all good because I can tell you a lot of questions came to me about the cost um and the process I reached out to legal to get guidance in the process and this is the guidance that I received and this is the direction that I take I took so allegedly um again when the employees cautiously shared information with me they did share that a grievance they wanted to file a grievance which was against Mr Bale but um I think they it was hindered where they didn't get opportunity to talk it wasn't follow follow so if you can give me a chance I spoke with sunny do you have the Pol the pro um the policy about a grievance and you were going to you addressing exactly what I wanted to go because I brought up that there is no official policy with regards to grievance against the city manager um and I asked that question one time before even when we were going through our policies and procedures of personnel and things of that nature that there really is not a process which again this is meeting is not for that so that's something that we have to clean up as we progress but as of now I get it but as of now the way that it was presented yes we have to take that into consideration the way that being sensitive to the individual or individuals which again we completely understand but I think now that it's in the hands of the commission that there is a level of protection to the individuals that need to provide us documentation so that what you have been privy to that we all are privy to so that we all know at least something about what the inves is going to ENT because as of now we're supporting because again I don't believe that you would have come to the commission and ask for this inquiry if it was not sincere or if it was not to the extent of causing for an investigation but again I think as we progress and as we learn to do this thing together that we try to do it as uniformed as possible so as we do this I feel that there is a rush but then there we don't have to rush that bad because again I want to make sure that as a commission commission or commissioner that I have the understanding of what it is that the investigation is going to tell because again if I read what their complaint what is that may add something to the scope of what the investigation needs to entail so I would like to make sure that if there is an opportunity or the commission is privy or you know friendly to it that we allow those individuals the opportunity to submit to us to you being that you are officially now the liaison um and that again we have some kind of former documentation that would allow us to be on the same page I think that's good and I do want to remind the commission that I did try to call for a an executive session because I thought that we could because I really wanted to share with you all I didn't want any of us going into it in the Blind and I found out that we couldn't so and and my concern with sharing it with all of us we don't want to Tain the investigation one and secondly once we obtain information it becomes public but if they're going to write it without you know it's not if it's an open investigation if it's an open investigation it does not become public record until that investigation has concluded I understand that but again we're not doing the investigation again I wanted to with you I'm just no we're not arguing I just concerns too the the cost is a concern of mine but I agree with commissioner mcal if there is and we don't know it's allegation if there is truly a toxic workplace props occurring we we need to act on it we can't ignore it we have to take it into consideration and act on it um again none of us we all want to be fiscally responsible but um I I just think we have to move forward as we're going to talk about the extension of probationary period when Mr Bill is present but again I see that as a win-win for all parties I don't see that as a negative it's 30 more days to 180 to 210 but I just think that's in everybody's best interest Mr Bell's as well as the cities so I don't see that as a big issue but again we'll we'll cross that when we get to that next next issue on the agenda um I I don't have any problem if we if we can do this safely and make sure that we are confidential with whatever is shared okay well let me do it this way can we get a abstract or a summary provided to us from commissional mcal giving the highlights of what the concerns were highlighted so that way the individual's name or anything else is not provided we're getting a summary from commissioner via writing so that we will have something to Feast upon again I have a issue with not being privy to anything because again if a if they went through the protocol or if we're looking and I can speak to this because I've been chairman of organizations where we felt to this where grievances were filed against executive directors and so being that we don't have that intent we have where an individual who works for the city went to an elected official which in an organization that would have been the proper protocol because again it's against the uh our hire which is the city manager but then again that commissioner uh MCO did what she was supposed to do in order to bring it to the commission to highlight however we still were not privy to details as it relates to it so I'm satisfied if I get a high level detailed report from commissioner mcal stating some of the things that have been divulged to her not providing names I don't I mean redacted information but I want some kind of tangible something I could follow and say Yes or if that is the case I want to make sure as we do our scope to provide this and make sure that we cover this in our scope of work as well so I want this to move on I'm not taking this lightly I'm taking this very serious hence the reason why I'm commenting the way that I am because I want this process to be open and I want it to be fair to all individuals that are involved I don't want it to appear as if we after a rich hunt or anything of that nature I want this to be completely open from all parties and protect those that we need to protect in the process I agree with commissioner Campbell I think that's a great idea yes I think that's a a great idea and that's good direction after giv a few minutes to ponder everything that was said and with all the respect everyone's opinion because everybody made some sense however for me I want to hear one thing from a Char while we're in this meeting because they are in charge of Public Relation employee relations excuse me employee relations and it's what would your department do when something is brought to you of this magnitude what is your responsibility okay like commissioner Campbell said we don't have anything written as it pertains to the city manager but if an employee bought something to me where it was a grievance against the city manager I don't go to the city manager I would bring it to you all you would be privy to do how you want to if it me investigating doing whatever that would fall on you because it's against him so that would never go to him he would never know it would go directly to you all each of you that's where it would go great so in this instance you didn't have that information no I don't know um who it is so they never came to you no okay not to file a grievance against the city manager no okay so do is there any Protocols of that I know we don't have procedure however but with your HR knowledge and experience at what point in time you we that those kind of matters have you inserted the idea of calling in or referring on to EOC because when you have workplace uh disparities where you're being bullied when you being harassed they take those kind of points you yes I am so I would personally refer this kind of Investigation to them as outside entity that's the government and they would determin from their investigation if this grounds for some type of punitive right or compensation damages and the reason why I'm saying this is it'll keep Commissioners out of out of this right okay so we're now into something where we're trying to govern someone that has a investigation on them and he's been challenged with having an investigation going it's kind of tough situation right period but if EOC is doing investigation that the employee themselves anonymously none of us would know who it was right until the time so if there was a settlement guess what the settlements are not even $30,000 so that way our exposure is a lot less the what it's going to cost us to investigate a lot of times those things go away with $10,000 so um that was that was just a suggestion not only that investigation the second inv the second investigation if there's ethics violation should also go to not okay okay okay okay well well I'm GNA say this as far as HR Direction uh independent independent investigators other agencies do do those investigations so that would be my conversation not saying right or wrong here but to get our wash our hands with it because sometimes in these instances uh people do and I'm I won't say that um you know sometimes we're fighting a battle that we have no business fight right so all right that's it for me thank commission MCO a question so uh and good we're all up here learning together and you said EO so if we go that direction that means you would you still be wanting a summary commissioner cam or you'll be out of you don't want somebody wants a summary or anything we'll just let EEOC handle it what I mean I know the way that grievances are supposed to be filed when it comes down so I know the process so asking me um would kind of be I I won't change what I said because I know how the process is and I've sat through it on numerous occasions as board chairs um and governance committees i s seever several governance committees as well so I know the proper process so nothing what I said before would change I still when it goes to the hands of an elected official there is still a duty that we are still brought into it with the knowledge of what is going on and then from the knowledge of what is going on we make the determination of what we feel is best for that situation so if it's contacting who uh commissioner Jones reference or it's who you went through or whomever we still know what it is is thank you with all of that said we we need to make some decisions I also as a public administrator had years of experience with Grievances and investigations with unionized or unionized employees which is a whole different can of worms but anyway um we all know the procedure but we don't have a procedure in the city that's as clear as it should be as regards um and the situation of the city manager so how do we want to proceed and what would be I know that commissioner mccal hasn't had an opportunity to contact the ethics commission but I don't know how long an investigation would take with them as well um and certainly if there the findings turn out to be something major then I guess we do have time but if I just we just need to decide how we want to move forward so we do know that the ethics commission commission is free provide services free right the services free whether they'll take it on or what their Manpower status is we don't know yeah because they'll still have to develop a scope and um also have a time frame and give us guidance as to you know I guess we'll have to make a decision about you know we don't know the time the time frame they're asking for as well so I mean I can reach out to the again I will reach out to the ethic commission if that's the will of the commission um we do have to we do have to make some decis decisions but I do want to ask HR this can you can come you did say that you were not aware of agreements that may have been filed against the city manager yes ma'am okay um were you aware of any did did an employee come to you and about a grievance about you if I ask about me yes no no okay I'm asking okay you're not aware of any grievances no employees came to you about any grievances within the organization if and let me and I'm GNA preference this like this okay if an employee came to me with a concern my first thing to them is would you like to file an grievance for the simple fact if I take it upon myself to file a grievance against an employee that they don't want for whatever reason they may not want to know it or may not even want the commission to know or whatever then it's not going to go anywhere so but they have to agree to file grievance otherwise it's conversation okay you said it wouldn't come before the commission it would if they don't want it to but they if they want it to because a grievance against their supervisor whoever it is comes to you being it the um city manager whoever the city manager may be it would come to you all but again the employee has to want to file that grievance that Mak sense and this is why I think it's important for us to get that outlined so because now I just feel like we need that outline absolutely can I ask a question Madam May where is our attorney at this time because we're we're treading in water where we really need some legal counsel and I would like the attorney to be here before we all get ourselves into something that's a good question I did TR try to reach out to our attorney as well as our labor attorney and I did receive a response um VI email I got it sunny to reach out so we can have some guidance in this process and would you like to share the response as for this meeting I can tell you that Miss West is at a conference Miss West um declines to provide any legal opinion regarding an employment matter she defers to um missley who serves as the city's employment attorney missley says she doesn't like the term label attorney so please excuse me employment attorney attorney okay um Miss Earley is also at a mandatory meeting of her firm at this conference um Miss slyy um Wanted would have wanted to have been a part of the meeting but obviously she had she had a conflicting obligation well so I did seek guidance in that in that I feel like we don't need to have this meeting unless we have legal representation so that we are able to address and I believe even when we were having um conversations that when we said uh that we were going to talk to um attorney elderly that we see her availability to see if she would be able um to be present so again I feel that we're having this conversation I believe that it has been fruitful but in order for us to properly move forward I even said it at the beginning of the meeting today that I wish we had um Council here um so I would make the recommendation that we go to item C on the agenda um and seek the availability of um our label attorney at minimum uh bringing it back to a Time certain because again I know I've stated a lot of things uh commissioner Jones all of us have stated some things and again if we're going against any recommendation that Council may make I think we shouldn't have no meeting without Council um even if we got to go to next door and ask can we get their attorney for something we should not have any meeting without legal counsel because we don't know what may come up that we need legal counsel for so again I make the recommendation that we keep things as though they are um skipping down to item C uh so that that we are able to provide Mr Bell the opportunity to do what it is that we want him to do and that's be the city manager um and bring this back again we are not sweeping this under the rug we want to make sure that as legislators that we are operating in the capacity in which we need to and if there's a direction that we are going down that is not legal or could potentially uh come back to haunt us or bite us or sue us that we had legal counsel that gave us their legal opinion um and I believe that Miss West even stated that at the prior meeting that she was not willing to provide um a legal opinion with regards to this matter so again I think that it would be advantageous for us to move on let's get someone in here with the knowledge know and understanding to help us gauge the direction and conversation again it's been fruitful but we should not have any meeting without legal representation that that is correct and I I absolutely agree but I still think that it is um I don't think it will hurt to provide you all with a summary of redacted information because that will also help us with some guidance and who we involve in the meetings um and I can agree I I do have to say commissioner mccal has been our Point person has been in touch with Miss ER right along so in terms of Legal Information um I yeah and I I just I understand Miss West's reservation given that she reports to the city manager and I guess actually I remember some time ago that commissioner Jones brought up the concept of having the attorney report directly to the commission versus the city manager in terms of changing the charter and modifying the charter and maybe that is something that needs to happen so as the charter committee moves along maybe that is something that needs to be considered commissioner Bor well that's really my primary concern as well that you know the commission really don't have anybody uh you know representing uh the commission because mainly the the the City attorney uh Norm mostly represent the her direct supervisor and it just kind of leave the commission uh you know in limbo so again we we we should not have these meetings without um a City attorney in her in her absence then there should be somebody else in her place as it relates we've done it before right well in her absence we got it we in yeah like you said we have done it before when uh Mr holes weren't available for us during his tenure um there was a uh somebody to stand in on his behalf as a proxy so um going forward like commissioner uh Campbell stated we should not have anything before us that requires a city attorney's um Direction and we don't have that representation I just have one question go ahead commission C Mrs CR did you inform the commissioner that they wouldn't be here as I directed you to do so yes on Tuesday so we did have time enough to cancel or eliminate this item on the agenda before tonight and which method any email because I asked for to inform you all matters of this magnitude going forth Sunny is phenomenal but as we are learning together when it's something of this magnitude we need a phone call email is a good sent out but again if we're time sensitive or something like this this wants a phone call email and a phone call because you would like some a paper trail because I never want her to say that it was not a paper trail but again just as we are growing uh that when it comes down to something as time sensitive or as important of this magnitude that we should have received a phone call as well but I that's that's fine but in order for us to move for mayor if you're willing to um entertain some form of motion I don't want to if Sunny had something to say if there was an attempt or anything I would like to hear say that I made a phone call to Mayor K I spoke with her in person she called this meeting that the attorney would not be a present and I also told the leaon that the trne would not be present verbally and I said please inform you all so I mean if we need to make sure that we're clear and if that's the way that we want to do it she made the phone call to two three more wouldn't have three more calls I understand that but it's that's that's the way she's accustomed to communicating via email you know and her not knowing that that's why I made the recommendation that's why he theend so in in order for us to move forward I would make the recommendation that we table both items A and B um allowing us to seek the availability of the the labor attorney or if we need to seek the availability of an attorney um for us to properly be able to have this discussion and answer any questions that we may have of the items that are listed in both items A or B and we move I would like for us to be spec um to be clear in who we want to see to be a part of this do we want the labor attorney to be a part them is it the labor attorney what does she like to be called employment attorney the the employee employment attorney employment attorney if we want her or someone else I mean at this moment we're not even with the recommendation that we that she gave us we're not saying that's who we're going with so I think I mean again as a as a point of conversation that's a legit question um we would have to determine who we would want exactly stand in the Gap but again I don't think nobody no no one would be more burst unless they are an employment attorney right so I think at this point and that is who we have on contract as an employment attorney so it would make sense to have Miss earlyy available have yeah we need to see if that's if all are free to that they have plenty of labor attorneys okay you have to solicit I think we keep having the same people around with same problems uh don't have same results um the opinions have been said already there may be some biasing so that's how I feel about that again not and I want I want to have ex this but again I feel that it appears that the attorney don't really want anything to do with it because they would made knowing that is a speci meeting and I think during this time and all of the conferences that we go to there's no conference going on around this time she's already stated she didn't want to have yeah she didn't want anything to do with it that's something I hear her loud and clear but she says that so we need to hear it let's try to move forward and get someone who really would give their time and attention to us again so do we I need to not the labor attorney not Mrs erly or we want to seek out another one you want erly or not you want another one we need I think again we're talking time we're talking process I don't know what the process is to get another firm employment attorney firm on board um again do you happen to know Miss Jones what that process would be if we had to issue an RFP or whatever we would have to do to hire another firm you may not know the answer to that and that's fine we're just reaching out to who that's exactly why we need legal well right but at this point we have Mally on contract and I think we need to again to move this process forward regardless of how people have certain opinions are not she is an attorney she is paid to be unbiased she is a employment attorney she's paid to address and discuss and do the research on these type of issues so I think we have to move forward and request her presence when we schedule this meeting whenever the heck it is because time is still of the essence we don't want anybody whether it's Mr B or anybody else an investigation has to be done to clear somebody's name as well we now have people kind of on edge the whole atmosphere is on edge because we have these investigations going on we need to get them done and concluded I agree an outside body this body should not be involved in investigation and we just need to move it on and so I don't think you know again I I understand the concern in wanting to table this now but I think we need to rely on M er's expertise as an employe go ahead bar could we just not do um what commissioner Jones had recommended as it related to um seeking EOC who who does that and also Commission on ethics with ethics Comm the ethics commission there's the ethics commission yeah and sneak add we I mean because again they're they're GNA the time is of of of essence so again if we go ahead and we move based on the recommendation the ball will get rolling I mean the ball will get rolling but again I'm I'm here to help in in in everybody's um best interest I believe that we are making this a lot more complicated than what it needs to be I think there are a lot of rolling um balls that is we've given Direction a little bit but we did ask for the availability of our labor attorney okay um and just to get this conversation started with regards to answering questions as stated before we did not say that we were going to go with the recommendation that she had again I think seeking the availability is only allowing us the opportunity to have someone to cover us okay as we move forward to have conversations dialogue with regards to the direction that we want to go ultimately with the investigation that's the motion I'll second it we have a motion the second so can you please reiterate the motion because we've gone round around commission I make a motion that we table both items A and B allow things to carry on as they are commissioner MC SCH has received direction to provide us with a summary of the conversation that was brought to her and allowing her also to make contact with the employment attorney which would allow us to seek her availability to schedule a meeting so that we are able to properly have discussion to move these items forward second we have a motion second all in favor any opposition thank you motion pass J like um so we can have Mr Bell come back in first of all um so no hold on because I I don't know maybe so I do want to submit a letter um I don't know if this is the proper time but I wanted to make sure that it was submitted received a letter from and I asked um it's a former employee so I asked HR HR said that she's not you know wouldn't have anything to do with it being that it's a former employee but I want to submit this to the clerk that I received that person asked if I may that were not here so I just want to make sure I submit it and I would like to make sure that every commissioner has it and I received an email yesterday um from a former employee as well so I think we I did as well but I make sure every commission I re I received one as well from a former former employee yes um and I think we need to leave it at that because it becomes part of the investigation okay I but should that be part were you listening he wanted to ask a question we weren't really done the HR person came to get we we we we're not okay we just hold up for just a couple more minutes please thank you what question so the next thing is about um rather not we're going to or we're not going to talk about extending probation is that what we said apparently we Ted that was one of the items one of the things we T yes they Ted AMV anything else prior to him coming back so yeah I'm still on that so what if what happens if he says no to the extension that's a legal question that's yeah right so we have a we haven't thought this all the way through so that's that is something that we need to I did I did ask that okay when I was Consulting and that goes back to us we make a decision whether or not we want to move forward we make the decision it's back on us because when an investigation is conducted their role is to solely conduct the investigation and provide us with their conclusion the findings and conclusions not to advise us from there it is on us to make a decision based on the findings if he says no it is back on us to make a decision to give direction to give direction to to say the direction that we want to go in okay thank any additional questions before Mr go turns no okay I think Mr Bell can return if we wanna whoever would like to request just return somebody C Maybe so on to item C city of Paca strategic goal setting is this what it's titled commissioner Campbell you want to say anything we let you start you call this meeting for that particular item to begin with a continuation I would like to again just operate in complete transparency Mr Bale wanted to meet with me oneon-one and I declined because the reason for my declining was I believe as we moved forth we are wanting to have one band One sound I did not want to provide Mr Bell with what I personally desired of him until we as a commission provided him what we wanted to see as a result of this planning process so I wanted to put out there that I did not meet Mr bale as requested for a one I also chose not to meet with Mr Bell feeling that whatever was decided had to come from all of us and I didn't really want to get in that situation of oneon-one um that we as a group would set the goals and objectives for performance Madam mayor yes I just wanted to make sure that I was responsive to the request that was made at the last meeting for me to have one-on ones with everyone appreciate that thank you so again we started this process at a previous meeting but um really did not complete it and we have still quite a bit of work to do so we need to start on that and mayor just as as we gauge this conversation are we looking for a Time certain or are we going to roll this thing out I want to make sure that if we committed to Rolling this thing out regardless of what time it says on the wall we gonna write it out or are we looking to have an opportunity to stop at a certain time because I believe that we have the foundation but upon us building on that Foundation it may require some lengthy conversations and the hour now is already 7 o'clock we've been here late before but again I want to make sure that if we're committed to writing this out that we're all Comm committed to writing us out what's the consensus I'm committed we we need to write it out and let's get it done we do need in my opinion need to get this done um we should have probably completed a while ago but here we are and we do need to get it up I believe we have a great foundation so it shouldn't yeah okay with that we can move forward we did establish some goals the last time around we do need to come up with men with measurable objectives for those goals and I think that's kind of where we are there's also um in City manager's contract development of a strategic goal setting we have a number of reports and plans that have been done over time that I think we can pull ideas from rather than Reinventing the whole wheel but I think again if we want to kind of stop where we left off and for these specific goals come up with some measurable points or objectives I think that might be helpful so the first goal that we identified at the last meeting was management of the organization and we all have it in front of us effectively runs the operation of the organization creates a team building environment for employees through mutual respect and collaboration so the city becomes a place where people seek employment become career employees recognizes the accomplishment of all employees volunteers and other groups working on behalf of the city supports all efforts towards diversity inclusion professional growth succession planning and opportunities within the organization identifies the organizational issues and takes corrective action so how do we come up well not how we need to come up with some objectives to measure the pro the progress or not a performance of this particular goal anybody have any thoughts whatever whatever we attempt to say uh it's going to have to be friendly to whatever the city manager is able to do it has to be something that um is attainable and um and it's a a goal that uh is not put forth that he would not be able to uh achieve so it has to be friendly on both sides but they have to be measurable and attainable so you're right specific measurable and attain and I did provide um some additional details based on conversations that I did have with uh members of the commission short of doing the one-on-one uh to request feedback so those items could be considered go ahead Mr D so under organizational management we had a established strategic plan review policies for equality these items were uh taken from various plans that the city already has in place uh next identify missing policies written practices and formulate a plan to address those use website to provide transparency on issues uh and the status on those issues establish an organization chart create Mission Vision Values and propose to commission review existing plans and propose City goals establish leave calendar for Central reporting process those were uh collectively some of the items that were identified under organizational management anybody's thoughts on those some of at least several well two or three are clearly measurable and easy to accomplish I mean first example the organization chart is already done um so that was fairly easy to accomplish so that's saying you know we need to go ahead commissioner mcaf what are you saying about the 95% you want speak to that please sure we are about 95% complete on the existing organizational chart however if we as I am anticipating pursue reorg organizational changes then that needs to be uh uh accomplished and the new organizational chart pulled together and that's not what you're looking at now is the existing structure um there's a couple things that we need to to um critique on that but it's not what I would say is the proposed under reorganization so that's why I say 95% anybody else have any thoughts on the items that Mr Bell listed or any additions or any changes again you don't want to make this overwhelming so it can't be accomplished either and those are a lot of just in that particular goal a lot of points several items and so we may want to PE down go ahead I think it's several items but I think they're easily obtainable um once we identify that those are priorities to us so I don't foresee that that list that was compiled um isn't something that we could obtain within the next couple of months to the year okay so that's fine again measurable most of them can be are measurable depending on how things happen establishing a strategic plan when when we say that because the plan that Nea worked on a couple of years ago was considered a strategic plan even though it's titled ecomic development beyond that yeah I mean again that was just done can I ask Mr B to quickly run down that list again sure establish strategic plan review policies for equality issues identify missing policies written practices and formulate a plan to address those use the website to provide additional transparency on the issues and the status of those issues establish I think you you emailed us that say was email print it yeah I want to print it out now because I theet are we looking it's the email that he sent to us I'm gonna send it to you I mean I would still have to go scan it it should be on the top of your mail box so okay you do he sent it to me he we don't have it oh okay I'm sorry are you gonna ask gabri to do it this why here he's out he's at the lobby sorry I'm just sharing Miss Miss cardi I'm sorry um can you copy this because a lot of what he took came from the economic development plan and I want to make sure my commission and I I have one so you only need three copies so we need to get a copy of that three copies of that and four copies of that I would like to see under the organizational portion responsiveness um which would allow us to provide prompt resolutions um to needs inside and outside of our organization so making sure that when items or things are brought up that there is a um response given even if it's uh notifying citizens that it's being looked into just something with regards to responsiveness because often times we hear that contact was made they haven't had any followup or things like that and I think that's something um with the organizational standpoint that we could work on better that's a great Point um commissioner because I I asked for a per a position or something along those lines uh to two years ago where we wanted to have an end to end customer service uh model as it related to um exactly what you're talking about so I think that's super important that when people put in requests whatever wherever the request may be that again it doesn't it doesn't fall but by the wayside we've had a number of people who would uh reach out to the city for different things and I have had numerous people respond back to me saying that hey um I've called this department uh a number of times or I called that department a number of times and I have not not gotten a response back so a lot of times I will ask them have you gotten a a work for example if it's in public works do you do you have a work order number that you can relate back to um once you put your request in most of the time is no but again like I said well did you uh when this the person that you spoke with did you get their name in in the date or whatever you know so did you have any Telemetry or information and most of the time is no it's just so when we have something along those lines when somebody reach out to us for anything then I think it should be encumbered upon the uh City to go above and beyond to provide a request order or work request order or something along those L when those individuals call into the city I ask for um a program to be put in place at one point that if they did something online um but we got a we got certain system online that works very well like the Public Works uh they got a a request system where you do potholes uh I think um in the code enforcement also have a situation where you can um tie in and get um put in code enforcement um requests yes so but we don't have nothing in place to where it's an integrated system that we can um operate from within that's easily accessible to the community I think it's also and I think commissioner Campbell has brought this up several times that people I don't like to educated but have to learn and know how to do some of these things I mean you say work I know what a work but is but a lot of people don't know that so they when they call Public Works they don't even know what the process is so they call and then what happens so maybe if they have a little more knowledge they shouldn't have to ask but maybe Public Works can say we just filed the work order on your behalf and this is the number on the work order so that people have a reference like an order number for the future but I think again letting the public know how to process some of these things or how to move forward because there's a lot of questions and that's a great point but um even speaking with the um assistant assistant city manager prior to he he's aware of some of the things that we've done in the past that did um uh lend itself to that and again and that's what he was he was also working on something in in that vein and we again he's help educate the people in the community about the poth hole program I mean uh that's on on the website under the Public Works um site as well as Mr uh cutright also educated the community about the code enforcement thing so there were Town Halls held and those individuals did go out with documentation to show the uh Community about that as it relates to and then not only that but then they also provideed information to them for department heads who to contact for different things as are related to whatever so again education is key we need to continue to do those things in those different veins I mean all input is welcome and we just need to serve the community that may also all fall the number four goal Community engagement and B have that be one of the objectives that is measurable under that particular I think uh commissioner Campbell mentioned um in the Forum last night about the possibility of a Citizens Academy that would incorporate some of those aspects of educating the community and also with the um use the website to provide transparency on issues and statuses I think that you shared um like doing the test run with real share yeah so if you can kind of yes um touch on that as a way of using that as one of um the ways to attain that goal sure so I think the conversation um we all are on the same point but my question is is there a system that we would be able to utilize say for instance a person is to call in I know legal is like trial works or something like that that the whoever takes the call have to inut input what that call was about may take a few more minutes but there's something tangible so say for instance um they were to call in and they want to speak to you whoever leave a message for us that there is a system that we will be able to go back and look at the calls that are implemented so I want to know is there like a municipal governmentp typ program program that can Encompass just about everything that we're talking about absolutely and funny you should mention that because last week we had a presentation demonstration done um that would accomplish exactly that uh a centralized system it was uh Point click fix was the uh is the catch name for that uh solution uh I believe it's C Civic Plus Solution that would accomplish exactly that pulling together um our Public Works our code enforcement um all of our VI violation information into a centralized system that everybody would have access to it as an employee but also uh that the public would have access public facing so that the public can go in take a picture of a of an issue that would automatically be uh geolocated and put in a concern about that issue so that would I think accomplish what you were just talking about and do they have a cost associated with that we are waiting for the cost to come back so it may also be something that we can accomplish through thrill share so that's one of the things that I've reached out to thrillshare about to see if they um had a competitive solution associated with that and I can say that thr share is something that we use in the district and a lot of families will be familiar with that program so if you can also again look that because I know that you had that conversation we had a conversation you okay all right okay you want to do it you wantan to do it now I didn't know if you were referring to yeah I refer to that one little piece of thing well we do have ey works right yes we do that's what I was thinking but that's that is that somewhat limited because I do know it had it was a little bit better than what the system we had prior to and I work was supposed to been taking this to another level but that was a few years ago now uh we're looking at something else to Encompass everything and uh that was part of the discussion that we have with this presentation uh whether or not this would be a replacement for Eyeworks or whether or not it would be something that can collaborate with I works the main focus of I works is work order systems and So within public public work so this uh what we were trying to accomplish with um with uh Point click fix is a broader solution than just um fix a tire or um we need to do an oil change or we have a pothole so we wanted to Encompass everything so so basically it's pretty much just limited in scope yes because I was to the understanding that it was module it you can you can you can build it in modules or what have you and you can bring in different modules as it related to that but yeah so Point click fix if that's what's going to help us out I certainly appreciate it yes sir that's one of the solutions that we're looking at I think um but I do want to leave it open to see if there's other options uh before we settle on something um considering the cost and the functionality of it right okay okay and I would say that um uh the responsiv comes from the top and uh what we've tried to do from the city manager's office is be responsive when we got when we did receive complaints uh directly at the office or from the commission and be responsive but that has to be something that's established throughout the organization and we're not there yet we're in the process but these types of solutions would assist us in getting there a lot faster again we're on organ organizational management um again most of these are measurable do we want to draft that out further what about the identifying missing policies and written policies and plan I think something very important that what are you doing to address that so the idea behind that was to continue to review existing policies um the HR directory will tell you that we've already collectively begun to identify those missing policies um one of those missing policies uh the commission dealt with the other day which is remote work you know so that's something that we need to codify into a written policy so that it can be approved by the commission but that's just one of the examples of several of the items that we have identified uh need to be U documented whether they're practices policies they uh they lack documentation so that's something that would come under that did you say remote uh that we can cified and approve remote work is that something you said y'all are working on that's a PO a policy statement that we have we do not have that's an example of one of the types of policies that's missing commissioner commission well yeah commissioner are you commission go ahead well I I think remote work is good if we can identify the people to be able to do the remote work as long as they're being productive as well as a maybe even a four 14 you know 14 10 hour days to where you you you cover the work week with your staff so I think we have to be very flexible we can't we can't stay in the the old traditional mindset of uh delivering mail by horse and buggy or delivering mail by these so we we can use email we can use text meage we got different ways so we got look at and think about how we can enhance and improve um the quality of life for for people because a lot of time when you're stuck in a location for however long can these people perform the same work from a remote location securely and efficiently and effectively if they can do that I'm all for it so just just something just that we can think about that um that we could potentially uh do in the city now I would agree with that extenuating circumstances for remote work but not getting into the habit of remote work in L of being in face and available for your employees we're 247 service organization something that we're looking to take in consideration um again we don't have to necessarily dive into it tonight but an option that could be that there's a pot that each individual is allowed at the amount of time to say for instance three days within a given whatever we identify so I think within the time period I think that is an option for us and again sometimes it goes back to the mental health capacity um to be able to remove yourself from uh environment but still be productive um we've we we learned that through Co so again I think that that's something that we can talk about but I think it's I think it's an idea but how does it look um is going to be when they identify in those policies but with regards to the policy I know at one point we had mentioned as a commission that we wanted to break down and have certain policies brought to us so that we are able to identify and review them as we move forth because there were a lot of policies that were um outdated were no longer best practices and things of that nature so I would definitely love to see that come back before the commission as a whole which would allow us to identify as a whole and address as a whole um how it's done we'll leave it up to you but I know at one point it was kind of coming before US policy driven to so that we can kind of dive in and be I mean that technically Falls up under us as policym the policym body so okay we add in that process if I may ask yes because I know at one point we were bringing pieces we had an HR manual that you were working online and we're still bringing them so we start we stopped at the time and we were waiting for a new city manager to come in we stopped all of the policies and so the first one that we bought back I think you just adopted it the last one was the benefits we brought it back two times you guys reviewed everything to make sure we had everything in it and now we as we're going through our department heads meeting we're looking at these things and and making the change and then bringing them to you all for your input and then we take them back again and we make all of those changes and then once we've Incorporated everything that you all see that needed to be then we bring it back to you all for final review January we brought one policy back the benefits policy I think yeah that's the only one mayor I got one last thing and I think this will kind of help gauge for the remainder we we talk about how things are obtainable do we want to have the conversation now as to how wish to track if it's obtain I mean track the do we want to come up with the metric like is it a yes or no is it a yes in prog like what system do we want to utilize to say if we're looking at organizational management and we're talking about the establishment of strategic plan is it in progress what have we accomplished did we accomplish something yes if yes what have we accomplish if no what like what metrics do we want to go by because I think this would kind of help us gauge like if it's something that we need to for lack of better terminology dummy down um so that it's obtainable or we need to beef up so that's why I want to know what kind of metrix system Matrix Matrix system that we're going to use to make sure that we're doing our checks and balances so and are we talking about us as a commissioner are we talking about these here so no so we we have to have like if we're a whatever Matrix we decide or if we want to allow him to come up with the Matrix of it is something that we are going to have to be that we're going to have to be okay with uh because again once we come down to our part of uh evaluation we want to be able to easily look at these things and say yep did this did not do this did this did not we this was in progress not completely obtain so that's why I want to make sure that we're on the same page now and I think that'll help us bu agree and I sent a performance measure tool or a couple of them to Miss Jones and she had some as well and I did we could maybe design those again not to reinvent the whole thing go ahead commissioner M and that's a very valid point that you brought up commissioner uh Campbell I did ask for guidance on that as well um I think it would be good and and it should be something that you can develop or decide on to make it more friendly and easier to attain so with that being said should we continue to move forward unless until we get a matrix no I believe that we still can have the conversation and based on the conversation that we've had he deemed The Matrix that is appropriate um I just know I don't want a yes or no matric there are a lot of tools out there yeah we can develop that and bring it back I'm fine with it and you don't want it to be yes or no so we can f we need to be able to if it's yes identifying what it was with the yes maybe and I have a I have one that we use with the um School District that it allows us it's done with our strategic plan that when we review you use it if we obtain something we cross it out and we say we obtain it da d da if it's partial of something that we obtained it goes into a category and we say what was it that we obtained and if so goes on to allow us to know Crossing out what we did so that we can get to the meat of what we didn't do so we can focus on that our next time around so that that full box could be checked off okay so with that being said should we wait until he gets the M gets do you want to move forward I mean I don't I don't process of moving forward if we don't have the Matrix because I think you're bringing up a very valid point in the make the process not dummy it down but make make the process much smoother I would think let's have the conversation this is just my opinion I'm just one to five let's go through there so there's an expectation of what it is that we want to focus on and as far as with the Matrix allowing him based on the conversation create the Matrix that ties all in the conversation from today and the way that we're able to obtain it and moveing forward so I think the conversation allows us to say okay we want this to be a part of it we don't want this to be a part of it okay how about we add this how about we take away that I think that's what this conversation is so that we'll have an idea but as far as the Matrix I think that's something that will be able to come after we have the conversation I don't think that should be something that holds us back from moving forth with I mean we only have three more to talk about and it's not as long as the organizational management and then that gives him something to feed on versus US postponing um which we've done a lot lately for good cause so I don't want it to appear but again um we just want to make sure that I don't think this is hard enough for us to go through have dialogue and give him some something of substance to move forward with and looking at the or organizational management goal I don't see any reference to improving staff relations succession plans anything of that nature like that's what I was gonna that's what I wanted to bring up but I wanted to I didn't know if I wanted to bring that into professional development professionalism because again we need I would love to see professional development built into the culture of the city and not just uh fly by night I want to see so I didn't know if that was it could simultaneously be under organ organizational management and professionalism so that's why I withdrew my statement before and was going to bring it up under professionalism and I agree with creating that culture and that should be under professionalism I thought under organizational it was creating an environment that was you know that they were almost two different little things even though they're interconnected okay so under organizational management do we want to add an item uh that says professional development no what mayor just say it was creating an environment that Fosters positive interactions between employees and super supervisors or something to that effect I just threw that out um and then under professionalism it was more of um professionalism was yeah more of what commissioner Campbell was saying under professionalism under professional professionalism is uh what did I just say professional development professional development okay for all employees all employees oh and so that include opportunity for additional education experiences mentoring there's all sorts of things you can put into that sure yeah like teamwork like we definitely team building teamw well which is basically collaborating effectively with internal uh to achieve a common goal with the Ben that will benefit to our city okay all right you want to go back up to commission relations well I would like to see you add I like to just see um something up there as it relates to uh how we engage with the community as they come into our various establishments irregardless of the department and how we treat um our um constituents our people who come in um for service from the city that they are met with u friendly uh and responsive service sorry could that fall in the I me that commission that athough people get tired of doing them is some kind of feedback about their experience in the city you know that if somebody's willing to fill a very brief survey uh customer satisfaction be a way to measure progress that would be a data point I think um having a QR code accessible and folks come in that they can access and Y exactly with a brief yes so QR code for customer sat customer satisfaction and also satisfaction and also you know have it on the on the website because not every if if everybody might not have the technology to to do the QR codes uh or what have you then have you have hard copies there too yeah have another method and alternative to be able to um help address those and as as a rule this is aside everything that we now doing that um has an electronic we also have a manual process that we're building in for it business continuity yes so are we have we completed organizational management that category commission relation go ahead go ahead I think organizational management I want to make sure that we're getting the best use out of our facilities where our people are house that if we can see because personally I feel that Sunny should have an off of sort simply because of the sensitive stuff that she's dealing with yes so I want to make sure that we vet our not the city hall Annex over at the community center that we're making sure that we take in consideration the services that the individuals have who work for us and that they have the adequate space to get it done EMP I certainly agree with commissioner C because I also thought the same thing with um not only sunny but you got to look at your entire city as it relates to people and how they are able to um conduct their business uh in a way to where the you know interruptions or availability uh and everything else so that and then like commissioner C said sensitive information on the desk or so we need to make sure that we do an assessment throughout the city and make sure that we uh get the people who are doing those jobs in in in a in a place that where we can where they can do it efficiently and effectively I like that um one of the things I want to if we can look into the door the type of door the HR has I think that's a very good um like a hard hardening of the of the organization so if we can look into something like that would be great yeah okay anything further under organizational management we lost commission um commission relations Is there anything additional that we'd like to add to this I I guess I need to get an understanding of establishing uh like I need to get an understanding of that like what is your thoughts when it comes down to collaborating the work relationship what are your is that something that you can measure that's a good question so I just collected uh the feedback that I got established collaborative working relationship was one of the items but how you measure that is something that's at the discretion of the commission so um you could you could identify specific actions like uh notice yes or no was notice provided um is the response timely what is that what what is your definition of timeliness is it uh one hour or is it by close a business those kinds of things depends on the nature of it um I can tell you recently um the the collaboration the um that you've been pushing out email information and the response time has been phenomenal so I can tell you just most recently that has been great um but I think the turnaround time depends on the nature of it what it entails what it involves so we have to con consider that okay I think even just getting back to whomever it is within less than whatever timeline that is and just saying I don't have the answer yet but I work on it but just responding and not just response yeah go for days on end field permission requests is that field or is that supposed to be field I think field like out in the field commission the request that we can you explain that can you kind of well the thought was and and this is the way I interpret it uh was f f d Fielding it like out in the field when you have issues if you're out and about in the community you see something that needs to be addressed like uh Hank briyan Park is needs to be cleaned up you know that's a request that that I would field in my office as your employee and make sure that I um allocate the resources to get it accomplished I think that's what it was referring to any other questions or additions I just have a question is it kind of like what we kind of dealt with most recent where I brought a couple of issues to you you immediately went to the department head correct okay and just one more question with the last one is it provide I know that we get your calendar it says manager so it's just your calendar correct right my weekly calendar um as well as the the uh weekly updates that we've begun providing anything else very quiet pry communicate organizational activity and keep commission updated well again that's what you've been doing recently if you can keep that going that would be great yeah always helpful and I certainly missed it when it was absent for a period of time Mr used to do it and then it was great to have it back so well not I mean I think Mr Bell is doing a good job in terms of committing that because we've had number of people who' served in that role we've had to ask for things repeatedly so again I think um he's been doing a really good job with providing that information so just keep keep that going okay thank you anything else on the commission relation that we want to focus on professionalism I'm definitely adding to that the professional development for all employees that to definitely include team building and team building I would like to see that as an ongoing um activity as a part of that professional development and Al making sure that we as a commission are um we have our I think it's sometimes we it's good for us to have Refreshers too so if we can build that into professionalism making sure that we stay on top of that if there's something um again I'm just you know building in that team building elaborate on minimize reporting eras errors and what that's going to look like in measurable please if you don't mind so we previously had had uh a document that was worked on for a period of time um prior to me getting here that came to the commission that had um some errors in it and so that did not come to the commission it was a draft yes it was a draft so that everybody needs to edit I mean you can't really self-edit most people need somebody else in the pris yeah talking about a different drone it was during executive session I think okay it was where it should commissioner Jones pointed out right yes out some Stu I think those AR are very important I mean I think they professional product in the end if it's a draft I can accept it and then I think we all make Corrections the final product though needs to be professional that's one part of it but we got to talk about errors that we make yes not solely with draft documents I'm talking about when we have people not to bring it up but the whole Mr Clark situation where there're scous eras that literally change total where we caught our like we need to work on things of that nature if it's our mess up we gotta own them we do and we've got be careful what we say we need to have that information have it be accurate before we say something yeah we got to that's something that's at the Forefront of professionalism like we can't we can't allow stuff like that to happen and we just yeah and and and job competence I mean in terms of um people who are in in these roles I mean we we the number of errors that we've been having we should we should not be having those and that applies to all of us and professional development as commissioner Campbell said applies to all of us so we all could use refreshes on Robert's Ru on Sunshine and a variety of other things anything else on the professional listen I think when it comes down to the staff presentations I see most organizations go to a formatted look um I want us to come with a more unified look um so I don't know if that's something that we need to go into and everyone use the same type of I know we have it at the beginning of I know when we're going through the budget how that first page of going into the shows for the respective that's uniform but I want the entire presentation to be more uniform because we have and again there are some people that may not be as techsavvy right but if there is a uh something that we can go by organization wise I think that would help eliminate the appearance because presentation should always be your best work not saying that we have not gotten best work but again that more Unified look from across the board commission m is absolutely correct you know it should have come with like the them like a theme the theme and um but I think based you know whatever the theme and the uniformity I think that'll be something that we should when I think the Pio I don't know what his skill set is but generally that kind of thing would come from PI you know a pi who could maybe potentially help with stuff like that or somebody on staff who knows um how to together presentations or know the office um office sweep or whatever you normally use to even produce presentation uh material just so I I understand clearly I I was told that uh the staff report was an effort to go in that direction but you're talking about above and beyond the staff report being uh structured structured the actual presentations that staff do okay all right need some uniformity okay yeah consist okay anything else under professionalism um professionalism as it relates to when people utilize our facilities you know IR regardless I think that we can do a lot better as it relates to that when when um it represents us as a city when we have a event a function or whatever else it may be um that I think things can be done a lot better examples are if you go to the price Martin or if you went to another facility sometimes the things you know and I think those things are getting addressed where you got the cable running across the floor uh the the the the sound system is not representative it's very embarrassing uh and a number of other things but again I think we need to represent the city well not just good we need to do it um we need to scale it up a little bit better and to piggyback off of that the Aesthetics of our buildings should be especially if we're asking our community to uh spruce up their area I think the athe ICS of our outside could be uplifted a little bit um not only here but to some of our other um places and I think that's part of the professionalism because everyone wants to come into a place if you feel welcome on the outside the inside should be a reflection as well so taking into the Aesthetics um overall as well I think that's something that we need to to work on but another thing with regards to profession ISM going in how we should conduct ourselves in meetings um and the expectations of all that because again meetings we see walking we see a lot of just Randomness that's going on in our meetings and I don't know if other Commissioners have been getting um some feedback from citizens but I get a lot of phone calls with regards to some of the professionalism that's being displayed from across the board um in our meetings so again we want to make sure that we conduct ourselves as Professionals in our meetings anybody else have any input on professionalism okay okay Community engagement additions to that I I mentioned something like a Citizen Academy yeah so that was already added is there anything additional beyond that so that's basically the same thing that's eliciting feedback from the community yeah I was going to ask bullet number two provide input and feedback from um typically unheard voices how would you capture that feedback like what are the unheard voices so um one of the key challenges that we have in in City management is we only deal with people that come into City Hall and so those are the voices that we hear on a routine basis um and occasionally we get unique or different people that come in so the effort around that would be how do you reach uh other areas of the community that don't typically come to the podium and don't come to the meetings and get them engaged whether they have the time to come to the meeting or not but they're engaged in other ways and thrill share is one of the ways that we can I mean if we pursue I would change provide to solicit okay um because from what you just explain like you're going out being actively uh trying to get that information one way or another so I think it would be solicit input and feedback um from the typically unheard versus provide because again you can't provide until you to go out and solicit right so um I would just change that word to okay from provide to solicit well once you solicit it you want to provide feedback solicit and provide yes that's what I'm saying and that real share can be that two-way communication piece and right you know and and too I think uh as it relates to City we don't have a lot of uh uh Community engagement being there for the community as a city on a regular basis and I think that would be a major help other than come into a town hall or anything else like that but I think if the city staff or department heads or whoever or have somebody designated to do some of the things like commissioner Camp mentioned the other day to where you know you can have people to come out and maybe do H how you work um do a a a permit what the permit process look like but just have different times of the month that the city is available a to those individual whether it's twice a month or once a month or whatever but we got to start doing some of those things to be able to help continue to educate the community outside of putting things on the website um maybe going to the radio station or putting things in the newspaper or whatever so just that're being available to the community um maybe something like mini workshops or something all of yes just was a workshop showing them how to how to with with with the processing in in hand C I would like to see us have a better relationship um with the Chamber of Commerce is so that we're able to compare calendars I know one of the things that I hear from citizens is say for instance they there's like no master calendar so I would love for us to be the at the Forefront of trying to make that happen because there are a lot of things meetings um that take place that people look at the chambers overall um calendar and hold that to be true throughout the city and I think if we can do a better job at integrating uh schedule or integrating calendars however if it's weekly monthly some way so that our city is reflected on some of the things that we are reflected via their calendar which would possibly bring um Community engagement feedback up in some instances and of other communities I'm sure have done this successfully so it may be worth seeing what some other communities have done to offer that kind of information okay anything else also when it comes down to community engagement I don't want it to just look from the standpoint of City Hall and you I would love for us to do an assessment of all of our departments to see what our departments can do to be a little bit more visible in the community I don't want to call out any Department's names but we have some that are better than others but I believe that each department have an opportunity to engage in the city um and Community engagement um a little bit more so maybe just providing assessment to see what it is that they are doing or the possibilities of what departments can be doing to have a greater impact when it comes down to community engagements because there may be some individuals that they see working in their neighborhood that they can say hey we gonna spend another 15 20 minutes walking down seeing if anyone have questions or just stuff like that I think would be just an additional step to providing that Community engagements from the entire organization and not just specific um to City Hall and I think that's where you can have them Champion they can Champion the Workshops the many workshops in the community you can get your department heads who are Savvy and that and and is that something y'all yeah I I don't want to tip my hat okay but yeah I think that would be great where you can actually use folks in the organization to conduct those workshops in different areas let them Champion that give them that charge to do and I think if you um address any employee in the organization they should be able to tell what focus is and what we're trying to do uh I think when we went up in Kansas and the bus rides that we had with oh those were powerful absolutely so I mean and you know that's something that you that would be be helpful um tell them tell them we actually um they they when we went out to Kansas and we were able to Sunny kind of spearheaded that process and uh assigned us with some um you know some workshops some tours of the city so they got department heads those that were Savvy and and they got on the bus and they took us to different areas in the city and they educated us on different things it was amazing um we went to different spots when we got there they had like just different projects that were going on in the city they had the the uh the gyms there um to tell us about what was going on and um department heads got on the bus that were're experienced for every area we went in and I think that was just a great experience for us to it the water plant you know they there there different um areas of the city um and how they run their project whether it's the water plant uh how they get the um the you know the things in how just the whole process and they just projects they had going right and so I think if we had something developed like that in the city even just you know just they didn't give us take us to the police department or the fire department but I think all of those departments need to be incorporated to kind of help continue to engage the city and some of some of the Departments are already doing things like that I think this but collectively I think if we just expand upon what's already happening I think it it'll be a lot I did it the other day and I'm G to toot the horn of Sunny because Sunny uh she does that with our youth ambassadors where she um invites the department heads to thly explain what it is that their departments do um and we've had some great discussions um even from our youth Council that I believe if we had that open or that was something that was friendly to the C the academy that it will open up the city just that more um to Communications and dialogue that again those youth asked and answered some questions with regards to their specific um whatever Department it was and so we took literally a field trip once a month to a different part of uh the city and they explain so and I I an open house at various facilities if their liability was that's like so water treatment or whatever that Ste in and we had to sign waivers fine we did all of that so with that being said the one that I attended at the water uh the gas Authority is that something that all of us can attend is that something because I I was invited very so if we notice it I think that'll be great we can attend individually if it's not and inviting if if Sunny can invite us however we decide to do it because I was invited and it was fruitful I like that but if if we can get I think that's true of every Department I think there's a lot of you know people just don't know but that's just getting invited so that you can sometime we just have to be um creative in our method and sometimes a lot of when it comes down to our departments they they're small so they operate just amongst themselves amongst their friendly but I believe that our departments each department has a great responsibility to the function of our city um and I believe that each department should be highlighted and I know at one point we talked about the possibilities um this was a couple of city managers ago um we talked about the idea of trying to identify our departments and each month highlight to where they come into a commission meeting they are visible to our community they're visible to us um and then highlighting them just for that month um to just give them thanks for what it is that they their contribution to to the city so I think that's something that if we can kind of bring back um putting a face with the name saying hey this what this is your public works department this is your water treatment Department this is your police department so I think putting faces with names and things of that nature allows people in the community to say okay I you know what I did see you I saw you in the newspaper I saw you on Facebook I saw you here I saw you there so that's another opportunity for Community engagement as well yes Sunny if I may can you share what um you shared about spotlighting employees um I think another one of your colleagues does it in Tampa is that it St a okay do a Facebook blast regarding um it's kind of like our in the spotlight but it's more of a like an interview with the person they share the P the picture of the person they share what they like about their place of work they also share a little bit of details about the person maybe you know maybe what their favorite activity is to do what Their hobby is outside of work um I've always said I'd love to see something like that here at Paca because it shows your staff's love for the city and I I think that's one of the things that Peter's attempting to pull together um with the public information office right because I think it does it helps to personalize yes all of these departments that without those folks working there the city would not continue to function so I think it is to showcase all of them they deserve that and theun needs to know any additional to community engagement oh I have an overall statement as we wrap up okay go to it um um thank you all for this conversation I think this has been uh very fruitful um for us that sit on the diet and for our community members that sit in as well as giving direction to um our city manager so definitely thank you all um for that and um as we forgot what I wanted to say because I said but thank you overall for for this opportunity to sit here and kind of put that true direction to where we would like to see our city manager help oh this is what it was I would like um Mr Bell for you to take this list and break it down in 3 6 9 12 what you can obtain in three months what we can obtain in six and it doesn't have to be concrete but I think it gives us something to kind of stick to because we often say you hear me say we talk about things when they're hot but when they're no longer hot it kind of gets on the back burner until um it's an issue again so I would love to see this document be something or this this this timeline so that we say okay it's we're at that three Monon Mark what have we accomplished on that list with that we stated could be accomplished because some of these things I think can be accomplished in a matter of a week or two to be quite truthful but I would love for this document to be to for you to bring it broken down um to in that time frame and also make sure that you when you bring us back the metrix system Matrix system as well that's where I was kind of going um breaking it down Mr Bale some of the some of these things you may have already accomplished right um um the mini workshops for example things like that maybe a calendar to show that you scheduled it what it's going to look like would be something that's good if you bring that back okay um because I know that's something that you haven't implemented yet but at least developing a calendar some department heads and just let let letting us know giving us an idea of what it looks like a concept you know okay concept understand commission Bor Yes again and I share the same sentiment as commissioner Campbell uh as related to being here today with the community and staff and giving us this opportunity and also to help engage with our our city manager to give him U direction direction that we uh have not given any other city manager before but we are here to help make the city run um properly we want to make sure that whatever we do we help him be successful at um what we what we will put before him and what he's um going to work with us on to agree to to um bring forth to the to the city other piece I think that we're giving him this but I think we all we should also provide priorities our what we think is a priority so that he'll know how to put the the 30 60 90 day thing together I think that will help in that regard thank you anything else when you establish these did you work your department has in this process everything that I do is collaborative okay I just you wanted to make sure right I I would put in one request when you get a chance go ahead um please take a look when you have an opportunity at the proposed Mission Vision and values and give me some feedback on that so we just pull together uh C collaboratively with our department heads a conversation about this and so uh this is what we came up with and we would appreciate you taking a look at and we can ask your feedback right commission j i I got one thing to say and it's about uh it came up in commissioner B question answering yesterday and it's about quality assurance on our projects that we have um I know all of the commission get called about the St John's Avenue project and other projects that we have throughout the city I um one of the goals I would like to see is you implement some type of quality insurance and when we do contracts that those contracts include penalties for being late subpar work and other things of that nature because that's important so when the public asks what happens to our taxpayers dollars on these projects we'll be able to answer them and answer them with certainty clearly in transparency um and if it's our side that you know causes delays we own it but if it's uh the contractor they must own it and we must stick with what we put out so that's a plan that I would like to see on there and that's that's something that you can work on and we really need that like priority one or two can we um and that's a I think that's probably one of the better takeaways yes from all the discussion that we had tonight um because that was something that was brought up in that town hall um that we believe that um there are a lot of things that could have been corrected or should have been addressed prior to that one year or whatever that time frame but with the Mission Vision and all of that could we have a Time certain that you want us to have that reviewed by because again these are some things that we don't want to uh we don't want to be that shipped without a sale and I think that ship in order to have a sale needs to have a mission um in a true Vision so I would like for us to make sure that we bring that back for a Time certain so that can be something that's a little bit more concrete sure and that we can start um displaying or putting out to our community Miss cardi what's our first budget meeting in August budget Workshop eight do we have one after that if you give me a second I can pull it real quick I would say if it's August 28th because it would be great to have that as part of our uh sale for the budget process you want to wait that um the bud if I may the budget Workshop is uh the 9th at 3:30 and then I believe the next one is the I'm look sorry I moved something is the 29th so the 9th and the 29th would that give sufficient time if we said the 29th of August oh yeah it's more than sufficient hopefully we can get it earlier they please adise what page of the packet it's on page U it's our packet we have it in our packet page thank you we have it in our packet and just one last thing um well just it's it's the last thing but uh I think we we need to also make sure that we have a good understanding of where we are in our budget and how each department is performing um we need to do that on a monthly basis in terms of U what our reserves are and how we're tracking uh with our budget because we do know a number of projects that we have most a lot of them go over budget I never seen one yet that that came within budget and and and then the quality of work like commissioner Jones was saying so the commission did take a stance with the last project that we was talking about St John's Avenue and we we we said no but um in uh the best interest of the community we Circle back around to to go ahead and continue that project but going forward like commissioner Jones said we have to be fiscally responsible and accountable to the people that we serve and I will in closing say that I've only received positive feedback about St John's Avenue so that's really an accomplishment for everybody before you and you because that's been a long time coming and people people have complained a lot but it's it's now looking good but the quality of work though mayor mayor the quality of work is is not where it need to be and so we do have a year we have a year um of warranty on that and so as things start to fall apart we need to make sure that we are ahead of the game um and we we don't let that year laps before that that work get redone or what have you they're not finished yet so I was going to give it the benefit of Doubt until they completed the whole track before I made a call on that and one last thing the CRA you need to add that uh north side we did approve it the commission did approve it the we had a concept uh we we we did it approve about two or three years ago the nor the north side Tiff from 11 Street Corridor yes out so that need to be also a priority as well okay do we want to do a ribbon cutting for St John's compl everybody's happy absolutely but it's important that we keep boots on the ground with that onee warranty and stand ahead please yeah we go and I promise y'all we F to go that's what ride out Campell this is my third closing at but I think I would like to see those things be calendared and the commission it be added to the commission's calendar just so that we are aware and we can help stay on top of some so we need to come up with some kind of uniform method of projects Sunny's very good at putting stuff on my calendar but utilizing like if it's something of that just say hey it's time for us to take in consider what however it is but I think it should be calendared and the commission should be it should be placed on the commissioner's calendar as well okay we have it on the projects uh p page now but we push it push it to we can push that to the uh to the calendar you know outl that you use sh y okay all right all M's clear I would like to make a motion to adourn this meeting to do that a half hour ago second