e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Mike we'll go ahead and call the May 2nd 2024 uh historic preservation board meeting to order um first uh Pastor um can we all stand for the invocation good evening everyone father again we thank you for this day we thank you for this time of coming together and sharing we pray God that you would Grant the wisdom that is necessary to further the cause of moving the city forward in their decision makings we pray God that you will lead guide and direct we give you praise for all that you do in Jesus name amen America and to the Republic from it hands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for [Music] all um maybe have a roll call thank you uh Mr Larry Beaton is an excused absence for the record Mr Hollister present Mr Jefferson present Miss Pierce present Miss vote present miss van rensburg is absent and vice chair acting is chair sorry cheffield present and for the record um Miss Rosa Is Not absent is is is absent okay we'll move um forward to the uh appeal procedures and experte communication as far as the appeal uh procedure I'll just go ahead and read this uh as a notice any person wishing to appeal any decision made by the historic preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a Verbatim record of the proceedings is made which uh record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeals is to be based any um exper communication for minutes okay appear to be none all righty so now we'll move uh to the approval of minutes from the prior meeting the April 4th 2024 uh meeting [Music] um you've uh had a chance to review them once you're ready I'll take any type of motion while they're reading just wanted to to bring Clarity I did um correct two little things I noticed Miss Katherine Walker's name was absent in one little place and there was one other place I had a misspelling but those typos have been fixed I don't know if they're fixed in your agenda packet but they are fixed in the official version of the minutes okay thank you okay noting those two uh changes to the minutes uh yes sir okay is there a second I'll second okay we have a motion uh and second uh all in favor opposed okay motion carried unanimously okay alrighty then we have ready for public comments I don't see anything up here but uh will open for public comment seeing none I guess we'll close right okay all right uh our first regular business item um is uh HPB 23-38 ready when you are okay all right thank you um Mr Vice chair members of the board uh this is as you said HPB case 2338 this is for a certificate of appropriateness for 120 South 6 Street I would like to uh point out that this is a continued item from last month so there is a there's a little bit different setup we've got a staff memo here that's kind of uh a supplement of all of the changes since we've also included the staff report from last month in your agendas just if you want to take a look uh to refresh your memory um the memo can be found on page 11 of your packet I'll go over that shortly as well as the um previous staff report on page 17 uh this is a an after the fact application for a certificate of appropriateness for work done to an historic structure uh the work includes exterior paint exterior siding replacement the enclosure of a rear porch and I want to kind of clarify that that enclosure is a major addition to the to the structure um as well as the construction of the other porch we had talked about previously that we've kind of described as a side porch to the south side of the structure along the Oak Street Frontage so background on this uh the application was reviewed by the historic preservation board again on April 4th 2024 uh there you can see that your motions reflected in your agenda packet that's also on page five in the old the previous minutes you all had just approved um the board only GR granted approval for the use of the cedar siding replacement but had wanted more information obviously going forward and that's what we have here however uh the request for the side porch and other pending items such as the enclosure again addition of the back porch as well as the side gate was continued to today's meeting now I want to clarify on the gate we've talked about the gate a lot to describe it um as a side gate toward the rear of the house just to kind of give it's it's on the back but it's not the back side of the property um so since the April 4th meeting uh since the previous hbb meeting uh the applicant has now submitted a new updated site plan and I'll go over in a second and I and I would like to point out I think the applicant is on Zoom as well Mr carpon um he can answer some of your questions as well but uh so they've submitted an updated site plan for the addition built on the back of the existing house attachment a show some of the new photographs not included in the staff report that include the re report attachment B also uh notes the difference in size between the original rear porch according to the putam County property appraiser versus the newly enclosed porch it's a a rather large size difference so if you go to page 12 in your agenda packet um figures one and two are a couple of photos that we have uh since located since the the last meeting figures one and two show that the back gate again that was discussed but that is the the enclosure or the addition that we're talking about that the board wanted for wanted photos of for consideration last time um and I don't want to go through this too speedily but I'll uh just moving on really quickly right next to that same uh side of the home souths side figure three on page 13 we talked about the columns um I'm sure that'll come up again today but uh I just wanted to highlight we had a better V of the new doors that have been installed on that side as well page 13 of your agenda packets and then just really to sum up uh page 14 shows what we've pulled from the uh the the putam county property appraisers office according to them according to the records They had on file they have a fourx 10ish size on that well that's what it said 4 by10 there size on that rear porch um originally as of November 2023 saw an identical file 2019 it was the same site plan layout and of course since the meeting uh Mr carpent has given us figure five on agenda packet page 15 your page 15 uh shows both the new additions highlighted in yellow to hopefully help uh help you all with your decision making so the number of items on here and I can stand for questions and again the applicant is also on the call to answer some of the questions you may have about this project thank you any questions we can ask you questions in reference you may I will do my best to answer them thank you um did they acquire a permit now since our last meeting for either one of these structures no as of yesterday when I've checked in citizens with the county or I should say I should thank thank the other planning staff for checking for me as of May 1st there's no approved permit from the county they the the applicant had uh applied for for a permit back in December and that was subsequently denied in part because they need the COA to do the work so it's been kind of a yeah roundabout process but they they've no they do not have a permit as of right now for the work so do we know if the structure is okay and sound and all that stuff I mean yeah I mean that that is not an issue that is before this board um the way it works the county cannot proceed with issuing a building permit until they see if the property is within a historic district they have to have that COA from HPB in order to issue the permit but in terms of whether or not you know electric plumbing um fire has all been been met with uh for the structures that are currently there that is on County building permitting staff it's not before this particular board gr if we Grant the COA then they will come in and follow with the rest of the process final inspections okay good because that makes more sense to me than the way it was being done backwards so I'm like right I understand that so now we're just we're working backwards in other words okay thank you when was the um structure built not the the main house but the addition it wasn't December of 23 was it not necessarily uh the putham County Property Appraisers uh site plan I think was November that wouldn't necessarily have been updated so it it's sometime between so far as I know and the applicant would know better but sometime between the original photos we have from our last planning director had taken photos somewhere around May of 2023 for an unrelated issue I think it was the gate and those photos um sometime between now and sometime between then and now is is the best answer I can give you and and were permits pulled then when they started construction no so they didn't pull a permit they constructed it then they pulled a permit it was denied they tried to pull a permit yes they tried and they were denied again in part because they don't have the COA from us that's why the county didn't Grant the permit yeah and so now they start yes yeah but what's before the the the board really at this point is really looking at the work that is being applied for even though the timing is not uh as it should be uh fits within our our guidelines I think one of the things that I'm I'm still missing one of the I I had requested and I'm glad the applicant is on the on on the line also is we wanted to see more clearly this new structure towards the rear of the home I can see the site plan and I know one of the questions I had last time with respect to the windows the wood I think we can more clearly see the wood and and and we can see a couple of the windows uh now but we're not able to see the other side um of of this structure uh and it's already built so we really uh would want to understand whether that is in uh within the guidelines so are there any other pictures missing from this or is the applicant provided you with any because then if not I I'll ask the no I I went back and looked into what we had and I had missed a couple of items but the only items that were not included from last month uh were from again the previous planning director I didn't have anything that wasn't included from the applicant okay because I I just see the the one side of the structure and barely a little bit around the corner of the the the back there I can get an idea of the the window here um which is a different is not consistent with the windows to the rest of the house but it still may be period but I my my biggest thing here is does the applicant have and maybe have got to ask the applicant of that because you've already answered that you don't have any other pictures okay all right any other questions all right thank you no appreciate it um what is your pleasure want to go ahead and uh if we can ask the applicant for the B is this is right now right now yes addressing addressing the the first item that was that was tabled I guess to to this meeting um are we are you able to hear us in terms of uh the applicant that's on on Zoom or can we activate the mic there and see if I know my question is whether there uh is a more complete representation of what we're being asked to approve in terms of photos because we can't go onto your property um and take these these really should be provided as part of the application yeah I'm sorry I haven't been to Florida since the last meeting so those are were the only photos I had when I submitted the original application to the other director well I I mean you certainly can table again it is the applicant's responsibility to provide the photo documentation that um is necessary for this board to proceed so and I and I I I want to make sure I I know some things were done out of order here but from my perspective what we really want to help you get this uh done and moved uh uh along now that you're going down the the proper channels however and I'll let the rest of the board members speak it's very difficult for me to make a call on this without being able to truly see what I'm approving is there are there any other I would agree with that we really need to see the size of the windows and you know everything the door on the back if there's a door on the back just everything you really there there could be anything else on the other side of up there um and uh we we just can't see it is it too much of a a hardship uh I don't know if you're not in town can you get someone over to your property that you approve to to take these pictures and and and so that we can have them I don't have anyone to be honest to get access to the gate you would need a key and I don't have a key in Florida to provide anyone to gain access to the back of the property um yeah see partly is I submitted I didn't know all the items that was requested so when I submitted and I spoke to the previous directive if someone would have told me you need you know four shots including the front side back P porch and all these things I would have submitted all of that what I was told to submit pictures submit side plan and and material list and that's what I did chair we have a potential solution um our public information officer is quite Adept at using a drone if we have permission from the property don't really need but that is one possibility yeah it's more so the deck the porch and other stuff and so what would be helpful because I I'm it's painful for me to to to see you have to return in this but it's it's not uh to our doing um I'm not sure if if City staff could help with it making sure that you have a complete uh uh packet to submit next time so we don't go round and round but if if it's it's okay as as Wes has possibly suggested a solution without you having to come or have someone that you know come if we could get your permission um to have the Drone uh fly over take those pictures so that we can get a complete application before us yeah that's fine if you guys want to do that that's fine um the next meeting if rescheduled it would be on would that be Thursday the 6th you know what I don't know um Sunny may you of June the planning board is the one that conflicted with um the Fourth of July I don't think it was historic preservation board I'm looking uh June Jun oh June yeah then we're good yeah June 6 yeah I think I could probably make it down there I mean if worst case scenario if you can't get the Drone I think I could make it down there between you know this Thursday and June 6th and I can submit it um but someone can send me all the items that is needed I will be sure to make sure all those things are submitted so we don't have to keep having meetings after meetings yeah under understood is that something we can make sure uh planning staff can help okay excellent I got the thumbs up on that in case you weren't able to see it s okay all right so um do we and want to entertain a motion to table oh yes yes so is your mic on no no I'm sorry go did you want to repeat that or I was just wonder whether the board wants to have some specifics about what he needs to submit so we can put that on the list uh to provide to him yeah well I I think I agree with that for this side the back porch but then we're going to have the side porch too so maybe there'll be a list if we haven't made a decision on the side porch maybe all of it at one time okay if that's okay um so I I would be looking at the a picture from uh all three of the exterior side so we get a full View view of the exteror exterior of the um uh the closed in back back porch uh and that would include very clear pictures of the the windows uh staircases um just a clue a clue to the roof line um and so forth to capture what any doors um uh look like that that are that are there uh the the sighting that's being used um what you're doing I don't know I can't see here if you've got what you're going what's going around the bottom uh uh of the of the porch there uh so a a good view from at least given this the three sides of this structure okay and the list of materials that are planning to use but they're already there so you can just give us the list of the materials you you used yeah the the materials is the same um through the porch and all the materials is pretty much the same there's no difference okay yes this just came to my attention uh from the clerk we also need an actual application um from Mr carpon a notorized application for a COA I I submit did a notorized one I believe scrolling trying to find it Renee brought that to my attention that her copy was never signed and in the packet it was never signed either in in last month's package was it I don't know if you could go back if you give me a second look so in terms of guidance on the materials Mr carpon other applicants for COA have submitted for example um the material uh a photo from Home Depot or Lowe's for the materials that you use for the type I've submitted all the materialist that's one things I submitted because I had all that available remotely yeah it doesn't look like we have a notorized application yeah one was submitted I I actually went to Florida and provided all of that when I submitted try and track that down I'm looking at the packet from last month that wasn't in there you said carpent could you stop by the planning department when you come down to Florida and just come to our office and and authorize your application sure all right okay so that do we have a we're dealing with the the back porch uh item right now is there we have a motion what um i' go ahead and make the motion to table this into the next meeting and include in the material list um examples of Windows Doors um sighting the type of Footers the closure that's going to be around the bottom of the porch um similar photos of maybe even as Miss West suggested Home Depot photos um so you guys don't have that no sir yeah I I've submitted it it it should be with the package with the porch package I submitted all of it at the same time well I I I apologize we'll we'll ask staff to look through their uh Records but I would just implore you to go ahead and re submit those to make sure we can just move move along yeah I have it so it's not a big deal send them back over H I didn't catch all the materials but I do have a motion from Miss Pierce to table to the next meeting including materials similar photos even Home Depot photos I was trying to find the photos you're asking for um do you need to restate I can go back to the recording if you're happy with me doing that they've got to be happy with it but we have a SE I'll second all in favor [Music] I righty now to the um the second second item all righty uh staff doesn't actually have a presentation on the pamphlet I uh apologize I didn't realize the chairman chair chairwoman was not going to be here but it does say in here oh I apologize there was a there was another item we had split uh we had tabled two things oh I'm sorry I've jumped ahead I'm going down to the I'm already on the uh the pamphlet that reminds that would be the side we going to pull up some pictures of the any um comments questions for either um staff or the applicant on this one um I had in question and I believe I'm trying to look back at the minutes that there was a question in regards to the columns on on this porch not being the same as the ones in the front I I I realize you can have different columns um uh maybe on the same uh structure but and you're already looks like you're way down the path on on on these was there uh any issue or or thought to the consistency of the round versus the rectangular on The Round In Front rectangular on the side is what I'm recalling I don't we have you we have a front picture but that's what I'm calling the front picture to be I don't know I think on the side porch this is my opinion I kind of like the square boxes over the the round ones to be quite honest and the boxes or the columns are not built entirely yet they still have trimmings to be put on and I think when all the trimmings are put on it's going to really look nice what is the trimming you're you're proposing uh like Crown it just shoe molding there's a lot of different trimming that would trim it out that would look really it'll make it look more classical I mean I think one of the pictures have some trimmings that's that the the carpenter was putting on just to look at it but it's by far it's not complete uh once it's complete they will have shoe molding trimming base trimmings you know Crown moldings on the top it'll look it'll look nice I mean uh so excuse me is there Mr carpon is there going to be any um railings at all balls anything on that or you were thinking about leaving it open I don't I don't know to be quite honest um it's it's only about you know 8 in tall uh the side porch so I'm still open for you know opinion on that to be quite honest I don't know um what my concern is if you put some rails on it does it make it look better or worse um that's all my concern is well I that's totally your your choice whether you would want to do that as as long as it's in with within code but if you are going to do that we would want to be notified of that to um understand what the materials are what a sample of that is so that would be your call as I'm I'm leading towards not the the the rails because on the front of the house it doesn't have rails on the you know the front porch and I kind of like it without the rails so I'm leaning towards that direction okay that that would mean that once this is done if you do decide to change your mind and put rails on there you would need to submit another application and come before us for approval yes sir totally understand um I'm happy that you're doing this house and you've taken this long I I do have a concern though um how you have the double columns on the porch and they're like two four six looks like eight of them and they're not the round ones and it's like the porch has been completed so quickly that it's like at a point where to say we want round ones because it would be more appropriate um isn't as easy as if this hadn't been done to a point before it came to us for us to be able to have advised you that that would have been the best choice to make I leave it open to other people on the board um my honest opinion for the round versus square the square looks more modern um it does not fit in with the house the round is what is on the front of the house that is original and I believe that the round needs to be on the side as well it needs to be cohesive in actuality if you had done that if you had come and done the Round And Then followed what you have on the top the balcony area with the the railings and everything if you think about it you look at it aesthetically would have been correct and would have looked um historical and um it would have made sense as well not all columns historically around I mean I've seen a lot of historical homes not all of them around I mean much bigger homes much lovier homes it's a matter of opinion in my opinion well I say that because the house itself the original is round yeah but there's homes that have both round and square columns I've seen them and they they do look nice like I said I mean if I thought round would have looked nicer I probably would have put the round and I understand what you're saying um that that's just my opinion and like I say I leave it to the rest of the people on the board just hear what they have to say thank you chair I just wanted to remind you that we we do have a member of the public that wants to speak on this agenda okay yes I wanted to see if we're done with our discussion here and then we can invite the public up to comment any members have I'm just wondering who designed this if this an architect designed it or or what an archit that is that a question towards me yes it is yeah no no I planned it out for the most part all right we're going to uh I didn't see any cards here I don't know if someone submit oh you have it in your hand okay all right we're gonna open it up for public comment Allegra kitchens 1027 sou 12th Street Palaca Florida I didn't intend to speak but I had the card just in case uh a few points first of all square columns are historic my house was built in 1876 and it has Square columns on the upstairs and the downstairs porch the back porch has lattice work and very tiny Tu before columns with lattice work over it so the porches don't have to match another point on Madison Street there are several houses with the square columns and they are they predate this house in addition there's no proof that this house did not have square columns to to start with instead of the round ones a lot of houses were redone at a certain point in history and the the square columns were removed and round round ones were put in and the back that porch with the square columns looks absolutely beautiful I see it every time I go down Oak Street I love it I think it is gorgeous I love those Square columns I think banisters or ballustrades or whatever you want to call them would ruin the look of the porch and they would make it too small and they just don't look right on it so I think it's perfect the way it is and again I will point out that the square columns are historic thank you thank you Miss kitchens um I wasn't questioning whether Square columns are historic or round ones are and square or not I was just speaking aesthetically also that porch that's been added on the side was not originally there so there couldn't have been anything in the past that was used that he just put it back differently um I I did have okay he left no one else is going to speak okay I did have a a second question I just want to make sure we've got the scope of this covered I I don't see any stairs but you mentioned this is only uh8 inches or so off the ground it looks a little bit more than that to me from here but um but you're not planning to have any other um you're going to have stairs or any railings or nothing coming off I know you mentioned no railings on the porch but with like coming down the front there that's just going to be one step down no railings coming added to the side going from the porch to the ground no I don't I don't think the spacing is right for it I I think it's going to be used just to come outside from inside the property gotcha okay I'm just I just want to make sure we have the scope of this uh clearly identified and so um what would the board want to entertain with respect to this item within the application I I don't know Miss West you look like you're reaching for your mic um there may be some code issues with the um height of the porch that may require that's that's why I think that's where you were going yeah so I I'm just trying to figure out um if that does happen if the applicant's going to have to come back to get that well and that's what I'm saying that's why ask and I would want him to make sure he checks with because when you go back for your permit and they go and look at this and look at the highight it looks to me high enough just there to require a a step but not necessarily I don't know the the the for the for the railing so but I'm not the code person but I'm just trying to deal with what I think uh you may run into and there might therefore might come back to us and I'm trying to limit your trips back here and so what I'm asking that is that if you can check that out to make sure before this next June meeting and then with that application have railings or step or whatever the addition is going to be so that we can close this out for you yeah I'll I'll check in with the the planning department and see what they say Okay um because qu I can step on it I'm about six foot and I just step on it to be quite honest so I don't know I I thought it's about maybe it might not be 8 in it might be about 10 in I thought it it's over 10 I don't check check code because I thought it it's over 10 in you're going to have to have uh something but but check please check with the theote so you don't have to come back another time yeah now is there a motion to the board will to make regarding the side porch I think the motion is that we need to have the owner come back to us um with the point you talked about the steps we need to see the final elements that are going to be on this side porch we have a motion is there a second so my understanding is we're tabling this until June 6 to get all the information make sure that the elevation is correct the code and then we can make our decision at that time in reference to the columns and everything correct I'll make a second all in favor I opposed okay motion Carri Mr chair I just want to make sure that it is the motion is to continue the item to the next meeting to a Time certain right to table it cor correct so there is no new notice uh requirement so we Sunny we're for a Time certain and okay she's got us yes sir thank you okay so um we're looking forward to the uh the next meeting so we have this fully scoped out with pictures uh and if they do end up requiring that you have a a step uh on the side or front and it could be and front or any railings please think through what materials you would um want to have for that and provide examples pictures uh once again of of of those okay couple of things just to make sure we're all on the same page um we have the issue of the side gate and I believe um there was questions about the door are you tabling the whole thing to okay all right I I just needed that clarified [Music] thank you um thank you so much thank you so uh so much we're going to move uh forward now to uh staff comments item number five now now F I got you to all right we don't have a presentation for this I just wanted to clarify again the reason and I apologize for getting up earlier uh we just wanted to to uh hand this off to the board and I do want to just clarify we've got our pamphlet here it is a draft pamphlet so please I would really like to thank public information officer Peter Willet for for putting that together he's he's been a I know he's got a lot going on and he did a tremendous job on that so uh we we do appreciate it uh but it is a draft it's a discussion it's for you all to just put it on record and let us know what you want to do so that's all I got I'm going to provide very briefly I I think there were some questions about the applicability of uh Florida Sunshine Law and it's my understanding um that this board appointed a couple of you to do uh some fact finding and information gathering for the drafting um of this particular pamphlet um Sunshine does apply to almost every meeting except there are some limited exceptions and if you are in a fact Gathering uh delegated information gathering mode um that was delegated by this board and you're not going to be making any sort of um you're not delegated with any decision-making Authority uh you are exempt from Sunshine um there's a Sarasota case if you need the actual cation I can get it for you um but you're good thank you I actually have a a question that how are we recommending that we proceed with our review of this providing comments recommending any changes uh because now that won't be necessarily a fact finding will we have to have a workshop here with all of us and make it available for the public to see as walking through the so you you tasked several of your committee members to gather information and provide this right and so now this particular meeting is uh covered in terms of notice for Sunshine so you can openly discuss this and make decisions and uh if you have further recommendations or if you want more information from those committee members you can instruct them very specifically what information you want from them so they can come back at the next meeting um so you have a couple of different options in terms of how you want to proceed okay um please speak up with respect to your your your pleasure I have my thoughts on this but go ahead Mr holl I was just wondering um is it appropriate to have our email addresses on here would that be a conflict with the Sunshine Law people contacted us it's not a conflict with Sunshine but um that if you don't want your email these are all personal um.com emails these are not City emails um you know certainly that's up to you but I I certainly understand not wanting them on this pan yeah I would think that all questions inste be directed towards us as board members need to be directed towards the city right so I don't think our personal email addresses that needs to be admitted I agree he shouldn't be there no I had a couple questions um I see there's time limits on the COA process I had also had questions about for instance how things work in reference let's just say like um an applicant comes before us for the COA and we say that you you need to do a b and c how do we know that they did a and C who follows up to see that they did use the cedar or they did you know do the window and or you know even if it's something more minor whether permits are not involved in that how do we know and what are we doing well we we depend on you wow oh my God PR accurate but okay so um just for clarification um you know the the city does have a resource issue we only have two Code Enforcement Officers so we we do depend very heavily on um the citizens within our community to pay attention to what has been issued if there is what is perceived as a violation um and you're familiar with the process you report it to code enforcement they they don't take your word for it they go out and they inspect the property um to see if there is indeed a violation if if the property does not comply with the terms of the certificate of appro appropriateness that is a code violation and the property owner will be cited and it would be appropriate for me if I made I had said I you know you got to do a b and c for me to go and see that they didn't do it I mean I wouldn't go to see it on purpose but for me to to say that you're you're you know a code violation is that like proper any or here no any Citizen May engage in that reporting okay because that's not what I'm looking to and City staff members actually do it all the time okay good Miss Pierce um I guess moving forward is there a way that we could put that into our motions that after they complete the work um because I know on one of our cases that were brought to us we said they need to be done within x amount of time is there something that we can put into I guess our motion or into I guess our standards that after that say six-month period we need them to come back to show proof that they've done that is that something that we can that is not currently within um my understanding of the terms of the issuance of a certificate of appropriateness if that's something you want to revisit we we certainly can um there are uh time limits on other permits that are issued for example they just don't exist uh forever so if if that's something you want want us to examine Miss Miss West part of because I wanted to just clarify because I my assumption is it's definitely not going to be with uh the permit granters going through and seeing if they're up to building code Commercial Code all all of that uh however since a violation of this is um a compliance issue as far as code issued by the city would it not be and I know you you start Ed your statement out with the limited City staff in my view and I know he's probably not going to like me saying this but Mr cwright or or in in terms of being the code enforcement would our uh certificates of appropriateness not be something that he would go through and review uh after to to actually do a Ser a walk through to see that they were they they complied with to me that would seem like an appropriate thing but like I said he's not going to like what I said yeah I I think you're right he's not going to like um the question is how do we enforce this I agree with that I I think that's a very legitimate question um we certainly can discuss that internally with with staff to see if that's even feasible again I I just want to remind you that you know a lot falls under um Community Affairs it's all of Code Enforcement we only have two code enforcement officers offers right now so it it is a resource issue that we need to be mindful of but I certainly understand and we can take that up with staff I'll make a note of it I have another question if you don't mind it says project time approval approved projects must start within one year and complete within two years um I is that I don't I've never heard I don't know is that you want to confirm that so that would need to be it's my understanding that there is not a twoe limitation um and I that is my information from uh um our assistant city manager this is an issue that I've discussed with them and there's not a limitation but I I will double check that as well yeah I would think if the if permits are involved in this if the process actually worked like it did with this where you had to uh have a COA in order to get the permit and so on and so forth if there were all those stop areas then there would be the permit would only be good for so long for the job which would kind of take care of the project time cor am I thinking correctly or no I'm kind of thinking that maybe this project timeline might be confused with Tiff because isn't it like once you receive Tiff funds you have to occupy the home for x amount of years or you have to pay it back so maybe it's kind of threee maybe it's like a gray area it's a different thing this is like saying once you get the COA and we approve prove it it's saying your project timeline starts within one year and has to be completed within two that's that's pretty defined and that kind of goes back to yeah we don't know if they're completing it or not I'll have to report back I and it's mentioned in two places at the bottom of the the yeah it's on the brochure that's why I'm bringing it up and on the bottom left project timeline and then the top right under the process COA validity Mr will it please come to the mic [Music] phone I think one of the wonderful things about this process is that you don't know the answers to these questions and we don't know the answers to these questions the community doesn't know the answers to the questions and that's why we work through this process great it's great I'm glad doing this I'm very glad thank you Peter so I think this is wonderful they're just seem to be a couple changes here and there then where does it go who gets it um somebody's buying in the in the North or South whose responsibility is it to get it to the owner I think that's going to be process a city thing years ago they used to have these type of things and they were given to the Realtors because I am a realtor but I I actually worked back then as a realtor and we would get these whenever we sold a house in a historic district we we would have to supply you know the rules and and stuff for historic neighborhoods so I think that would be it I think um maybe uh people in charge of the um districts themselves the presidents of the neighborhood could um do it like in a welcoming thing when somebody new moves in they could give it to them and maybe there could be um Sunny would no better or staff people I might make a suggestion that that the the attorneys and the title companies in an area be notified and be sent this so that when they get it that file for a purchase because I can see that it easily fall through the crack absolutely the property appraiser maybe want applying for Homestead I know this doesn't just apply for Homestead that's just another Avenue yeah great great because then we cut down on all the mistakes and all the problems and stuff like this poor gentleman that has to come back you know so many times and do that yeah all right well I if we could take a another Deep dive look between now and the the the next meeting and come back with additional specific comments or help me out here if this would be we we bring those back here and then we'd have another session to actually communicate our comments to our our wonderful volun uh uh we you're not volunteer you're a staff so but but I'm sure this wasn't on your uh I'm sure this wasn't on your original job description either but uh is that okay from the board perspective good for me can we take are we allowed to take these home just review okay and so we'll we'll come back with additional comments and that time share more or or if you have the comments you can provide to staffe of the meeting okay oh because we're not discussing it with one another we can just give those to you yeah without copying everyone else just I can give you mine I've already marked it up would like to have the discussion with everybody so we're all on the same page yeah we're I yeah definitely I think we're not excluding that we but we you're saying we can get it to you prior but then we're still have a discussion yeah have a meeting you know then we go over all the comments and maybe you make a decision on what's the next step all righty are we set on 5A okay and now 5B uh discussion um really our board duties and responsibilities and I know um you sent something out ahead of a time that gave a list oh there it is on the screen okay right um and so I don't know how how you want to proceede so this um was actually something that the the board uh requested and was broached several months ago probably about uh five months ago now and then you guys got a little sidetracked with a whole bunch of appeals so um we're we're back to revisiting this particular section of the code section 5476 this is the historic preservation board and and you can see you know we are supposed to have um seven members of this board we are missing um an architect and an attorney um and I only mention that because that very specifically was mentioned um during the appeal of the COA for the demolition of the St Marks directory um opposing Council so we we need those positions filled but then moving beyond that um if you look under subsection F these are your duties which I I might add are pretty extensive for a volunteer board um some of these have already been complied with in terms of the establishment of the historic district this is a district that however it can expand um if if the Comm if you're getting that feedback from the community because there are additional layers of protection for historic resources uh within the district but if you just want to take a look at this list there are a lot of things that you can be doing as a board that extend well beyond just the approval and denial month after month of coas um and that's up to you how much you want to burden yourself as a volunteer board but you really do have an opportunity to you know shape shape our city can I ask a question if I wanted to go let's say to St Augustine and ask for their ordinances in for their historic district and they would furnish them to me I would bring them back and what give them to you present them here so that we could make some comparisons to see if there's anything we want to adapt because it's like with the uh variations of the sh you know the big garage metal sheds and so on and so forth um we didn't have an ordinance for that and some most of the other historic districts do have that so is that okay is that all right yeah I absolutely um oh you have them so you you can look up any um municipalities C Cod Provisions um through this lovely resource called mun code you just type in the city um and mun code and you can pull everything up and so if they have a historic district you can see exactly I I think going to St Augustine is a resource is an excellent idea I've I've worked with her um it's called harb over there their historic Architectural Review Board is excellent um they have some excellent resources and so of course Miss vote you can certainly take that on yourself again if you want to appoint several committee members again it is information gathering fact finding you're not making decisions you just report back and you guys can take it from there I would like to make that suggestion me too sounds wonderful that you just want to go to lunch any of us could do it but I'm just curious to see if there's a way that we that sounds great be more proactive as opposed to just saying yes and no and I think we'd be more helpful to the people in the district too if we I'm I'm a very black and white person like I have to have it in writing I need rules and regulations that's kind of my thing so if we can get something together and put it in writing that would be great and also Sunny can you share that website information with us and you know you can also invite um guest speakers um okay the expert witness that um I retained for the St Marks uh Mr Paul Weaver um is a renowned expert works with the city of St Augustine quite a bit and he actually drafted your historic resources survey I believe I sent that as an attachment in an email if you want him to come speak to you on the value of your historic districts you're you're welcome to have a guest lecture series oh that would be awesome thanks a regular meeting or specially regular a regular meeting you can give them a time frame you know a 10 15 minute presentation that would be nice I like that I I think need to learn I'm All About Learning yes Mr holl so the permitting process I hate to harp on this um they have to go to the county to get a building permit yes does the county follow up with inspections yes absolutely abely okay yeah so they'll go to the house and make sure the wiring is right and I just say historic district actually I was going to bring it up they they do they they definitely look to see whether it's in one and then they add the additional requirement to have a COA come with now I don't think they look thoroughly through what the C what we what we've uh outlined and that's why I I made the suggestion that I'll probably hear about later in terms of uh our code enforcement uh group actually taking um a bit of responsibility to do that because I don't think we'll be able to get the county let me tell you if I can just add a little bit to the discussion uh when there is a a building permit and before the co is issued by the county and it has passed through the city for review for zoning standards compliance we go on site before and do an inspection to make sure you know that they had the the number parkings that they're supposed to have the setback things like that and only after we you know we approv it then the county giv the co we could do something similar you know with the certificate uh it would just add more workload to to our load uh but we could you know the only problem is that we don't know exactly sometimes because they are just U they're not full permit I mean they're not full buildings new buildings that they're building these are just addition these are just maintenance sometimes yes well that's why I suggested if we put into our motions that after the six months they need to come back to us and show us what they have done and successfully done what we've asked that's that's what is putting the burden on and property own yeah on them and not not on staff because I know y'all are spread thin so instead of it being on you guys definitely incorporate that into our motions and into our I guess guidelines now that once we say you can do this and x amount of time we need you to come back and provide evidence that you've accomplished what you said you're going to do because I know there's some other buildings that we've given the goahead on and they've never started anything two things um they they don't would it be could could I don't know if you guys volunteered through that last discussion to to go to uh St Augustine or what but whomever that team is could we ask the question how they deal with compliance uh or enforcement or followup the other second idea I had then this this group isn't going to like me very much either but I don't know if it it would be the the case um would it be appropriate if there were volunteers from the historic the uh preservation board that would go out um and and do a walk through to see that it was complied with before you you gave and that but that would put a lot of burden on on on us and possible risk if they don't like what what our decision is so I don't know how to I'm just brainstorming aloud as to how to encourage uh compliance right so so code enforcement is strictly within our code enforcement department we we don't uh Outsource that out to volunteers that could go sideways really we just be advisers like uh el el Smith what is her name from that that TV show uh to the to to the real uh enforcers uh of of that being said if you if you see what you perceive to be a code violation by all means contact UM code enforcement and I want to say something in reference to what Brianna said if you had if you put a timeline on certain things we would have to make sure that that timeline there's only like a couple of them and they make sense and they're done in a procedure that is it applies to everyone so you don't just say oh you're six months you're eight months you know what I mean it has to be for this particular thing this amount of time for that so that we're within the boundaries of being fair and yes I would say to do that um any additional board uh comments I know we're finishing up on that discussion item there I take it we're done with that but are there any board comments item number six okay then I have one request of Mr Hollister I'd like to see that briefcase on the desk please