##VIDEO ID:YgTvggcqOeA## e e this is a test of the city of Paca audio system e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right good afternoon ladies and Gentlemen let's go ahead and call to order the historic preservation board meeting for September 5th 2024 we will start with the invocation which will be led by chapl mury and we will follow with the Pledge of Allegiance which um Miss Grant if you could lead us in that thank you good evening everyone father again thank you for how good you've been all day we give you praise and glory and honor even now God we take a moment to reflect and to look back and to pray for those who been affected by this atrocity that happened in Georgia pray for the school leadership we pray God for victims and those that will affect it pray God that you will strengthen families or everywhere father we ask you look on this board as they come together for this evening session pray God for wisdom and guidance and all that the under to do for your glory pray that you will help us through whatever needs to be done to move this city forward in Jesus name amen amen thank you all you who joined me in the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you thank you madam city clerk if we could have the roll call please certainly Miss Brianna Pierce present Mr Hollister present Mr Beaton present Miss vote present Mr Jefferson present Mr Sheffield present Miss chair van rensburg present noted for the record Mary Jane Rosa is present but she is not voting as we have a full Forum today thank you ma'am let's move on to Pardon Me item a um D the meeting purpose disclosure the purpose of the historic preservation board is to Steward the architecture of properties in our City's historic district by applying the guidelines of the Secretary of the Interior standards for historic preservation moving on to the appeals procedure any person wishing to appeal any decision made by the historic preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a Verbatim record of the proceedings is made at the applicant's expense which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based Florida statute 28615 expart Communications board members yes uh I just wanted to mention that I had discussed this house with uh the gentleman applying for the uh things no money exchange or anything just discussed it good work Mr Hollister thank you for sharing yes ma'am I was going to recuse myself but have talked to attorney West and I did have conversation with Mr Sheffield about the house and I did have conversation with Mr cutright about the house so I'm you know telling everybody that and she said I could stay thank you and thank you very much for the clarification Miss West let's move on to the approval of minutes from the July 11th chair if I may I'm so sorry just noted for the record that Mr Sheffield has uh provided me a form8 with a formal recusal from the manner thank you I I was expecting that when we got to that matter I would but thank you very much just in case I had forgotten uh moving on to the approval of minutes for the July 11th meeting I'm sorry I was not in attendance it was my birthday thank you for letting me have the day off um looking for a motion to approve so moved thank you Mr Sheffield and a second thank you Mr Hollister all in favor please say I I excellent and opposed we have approved the minutes of the July 11th 2024 meeting moving on to public comments we will open our public comments and we do have a comment card Mr veto Russo if you would sir approach us and give your name and address for the record please sir my name is V I live at 45 IM Street on presid of so this is public comment for non-agenda items so if you're speaking on an agenda item we're going to take public comment after that agenda item is called but if you're here to talk about pfest I'm sure everyone would like to hear about that and and that was exact I was looking at the comment card and it shna public comment so I was thinking it was going to be a porchfest plug Saturday December 7th it's always the first Saturday of December we'll have uh 14 bands playing a wide variety of music genra so everybody in the community food vendors and drink vendors and art vendors in this year we're actually expanding uh into selling merchandise so everybody have an opportunity to buy a t-shirt or or something we'll see excellent get good thank you Mr Russa because yep what we need is more rain is something no one ever said um all right anyone else for a public comment if not we'll close public comment and we will move on to our new business which is HPB case 24-21 an application for a certificate of appropriateness for demolition the owner is Alan Sheffield the address is 426 Kirby Street Paca Florida um the parcel number is very long Mr Sheffield I imagine you are stepping away yes yes sir reest is a request for demolition of a vacant structure uh this uh property has been in front of you before I believe it was in 2021 when they came for a certificate of appropriateness to demolish uh the back porch of the house and the front uh and also to do some repairs to the house at that time Engineers report was submitted uh and basically the engineer report stated that uh the the structure was uh was safe I mean it was it was still in condition to be repaired and occupied as a single family home few years has passed since then and the house been uh contined to the torate to the point that uh Mr Sheffield the property owner has requested a demolition of the house we review staff reviewed the report uh the the the request and uh I I've been on site I took pictures I can I can testify you know that the the structure is in really bad State I couldn't get inside the house but I went all around the house um however you know in this application we don't have an engineer report update to the state of that house four years later so I cannot make a determination at this point that this structure is unsafe and ready for demolition so that's all I have to present to you add yes would you like to address US sir come on up if you would yes I would thank you alen Sheffield 512 Molen Park pla Florida um thank you this is this is T taking us a while dealing with this property uh for a number of reasons in that I'm not a fan um of demolition uh however when we first purchased a property it definitely uh and I don't know uh sunny or if uh we can go to the pictures that are in the or you can look at the pictures that are in the engineers report because we've got uh we had a study done in terms of our our our interest um level there but actually in the engineers report because the the key thing that and I'll try to be brief here that was a distinction here is we came before the the to the city planner at the time this is I think three city planners ago um and uh we wanted a full evaluation of the house because when we bought it there was an orange sticker on it saying that it was um uh dangerous and and and so we were concerned about uh even our contractors going in um and so we came before in in the the city planner and they said well we have to get U um a COA uh for the demolition so we started on that but then we came back with that and said well no no no no you've got to actually provide plans for the whole entire intent of the re re um uh construction and all all of that so that what came before this board three years ago this Thursday and that was that was approved um and so my my issue with this was that when the the the findings in the engineers report were not full because we were told we could not even take off the panels or even any sighting to take a further look at things we could not fully evaluate because if you go to the engineers report and look at the uh siding and around the even though we saw that there was damage to the to this to the seals um we we were not allowed to really remove any panels to really take a further look at things and the and when the the engineer could clearly see the the addition was falling away from the main structure of the house so that was recommended to be demolished in the engineers report but once we got through the the hurdles got the all the plans together um all all of that we went uh and and you guys this this board approved it then we went to get permits to do the uh the demo we had our COA and they said the county said no no no no no no you've got to give us all the trade plans all the detail it has to we had to go through a full review so at each Road here we've been and sort of halted and stalled with all of this process and still not able to see fully what was underneath the curtain here but once we got through all of that and did the demo of uh what was cited in the engineers report what the engineer could see we saw so much more damage uh and so that's what if you go down for instance if you go uh go through the pictures some more I just want you to see the side of the the the home that the P from the what the engineer could could see and see how that's uh depicted um so that you see what I'm talking about I'm sorry there oh there we go go down a little bit more so here whoops right there is what the engineer saw and a picture that I I'm going to refer you to in a little bit so we weren't allowed to take off what we ended up doing after the demo was taking off the the the the last three um pieces of siding there and then you'll see this corner in the pictures um in just a second so now if you could go back to my application okay and go down to the pictures I'm sorry to have to put you okay it's going okay we're getting there okay um come down some more okay down one more okay that is where the house was pulled away and this is the condition of what was not visible to us when the engineer did did their report um and you see that we we pulled off more of the slats at the bottom this was not visible to the engineer when when they did their report and so if you go down a few a little bit more with the pictures a little bit further so this is the bottom of that same upright and and continue to go down because then I started looking at okay how was this constructed yes the seal beams were messed up but stop right there and how they are doing and building this house they they set the I'm sorry I'm going to mess this up they they set the um uh the beam on the seals by notching away and leaving about three inches for it to sit there uh I don't know if you can really tell that from there or from that side and so the corrosion of this is just was not visible at all and so at this point even though I was trying to because this was a big argument in my house honestly um I wanted us to figure out a way to restore this Shan my wife was like there's there's no way giving and and and and so once the demo happened and then we saw these things it was like even I had to say I'm just not sure about this so I I went back to the guidelines the standards we're we're supposed to be making decisions based on these these standards and so I like to just read um standard 683 and you you have it I think I provided in the in the in the handouts it says one set of Standards preservation Rehabilitation restoration or reconstruction will apply to the property undergoing treatment depending on the property's significance very key existing physical condition once again very key and the extent of documentation available and interp and interpretive goals where where applicable the standards will be applied taking into consideration the economic technical feasibility of the project so the thing I wanted to highlight here is restoration or reconstruction and so when I look at the the definition of of restoration uh and this is also in in in there too and this is I'm I'm copying this is directly from the the uh Secretary of inor interior's guidelines restoration is defined as the act or process of accurately depicting the form features and character of the property as it appeared at a particular period of time by means of the removal of of features or other periods uh in its history and reconstruction of missing features from the restoration period um and the The Limited and sensitive upgrading of mechanical electrical and plumbing you know they say for other Cod requirement works that you you got to now incorporate that in your restoration process as as we we all know so when we get to reconstruction because where I'm landing on this is that I'm in the middle of what I would consider uh renovation and reconstruction reconstruction gets to in this definition and this is on page 225 of that the handout reconstruction is defined as the act or process of depicting by means of new construction the form features um and detailing of nons surviving uh of of a non-s surviving site Landscaping building structure or object uh of the purpose of replicating uh its appearance um at a specific period of time and his his in its historical uh location so then I I said well wait a minute this is the last thing I I'll read from from uh from from this and then I'll I'll I'll speak to my specific letter um if I then look at okay if I'm starting this project because once again I am not a fan of uh of demolition I'm a I'm a fan of uh of of really adding to the value of a city in terms of uh his his his his historic uh presentation and so I guess the thing I'm looking for here is on your page 165 where it actually gives and this is the guidelines for rest during historical buildings uh the second piece down there it says Identify retain and preserve materials and features from the restoration period okay and and it says here the guidance for the treatment restoration this is not reconstruction but restoration begins with the recommendation to identify the form and detailing of those architectural materials and features that are significant to the restoration period at at uh as established by the historical research and documentation um therefore guidance on identifying retaining and preserving features from the restoration period is given first so I had to ask myself as I looked at this project because we bought it really in this condition where the the beams have been cut from the second floor nothing inside because I had to ask myself repeatedly the question what historical features am I trying to retain or restore I'm sorry this house is really a bland what unique architectural features are am am I supposed to be pointing to to say well by under the guidelines you identify those first and then you seek to utilize those same materials and and restore it to those unique because even if cuz looking back at the history of this house I'm I'm hoping Larry can help with this because I recall the the history being that we really didn't have a Babe Ruth or or some some significant event happening with this house and as you can see it doesn't really have much uh going forward now what we're trying to do this is this is what's intact this staircase in here and it has a bookshelf and a little closet uh so we're we're going to uh take that out of there and retain that as you can see as noted in the application we want to take out the uh Windows there's all one thing that's not mentioned is there is a it didn't even have a fireplace in in this in this house it just had a a brick chimney and and there was a hole on the side which I imagine was a heating stove or or or something of that nature so we're trying to do our best in terms of renovating this project and we're following the guidelines by identifying the significant features that are that are there and and outside there's really nothing significant about the the house if you go to the outside picture you can tell well I don't know if you can see uh from the outside but there's a picture that I have from the inside that that um uh that what looks like a covered up window up there is actually a doorway so this used must have had a second floor porch um that's actually a door way coming out um and so that's included in our actual plans to to to do this so the engineering report really was handcuffed because we couldn't see the extent of the uh of the deterioration um I'm struggling Because the actual guidelines do not mention the requirement to have an engineering report uh give a stamp as to the condition that it asks you uh says you have to consider here um I know that's that's typically a factor in terms of getting a third-party opinion um so really what I'm asking for is uh this board's approval we're doing this as I can see in in in accordance with the guidelines and we're going to reconstruct this the other thing we're doing we're going to be we are we wanted to take as much of the the actual wood the siding that's off and retain that so we've we've got a storage unit where the stairs the windows anything we can do now I did tell the the the guys in negotiating the price I'm only going to spend two full days to save the siding I'm not going to go a whole week and pay you guys to pull all of this and get all the nails out and all this for for I'm gonna I'm GNA make an effort to retain this and reutilize as much as I can um and so I think with that that that's pretty much what I wanted to present and say thank you ladies gentlemen do we have questions for Mr Sheffield yes ma'am hello couple questions H so bear with me um the engineering report that you got was it before the purchase of the property or after it was after the purchase of the of the of the property so you didn't do it before you didn't do a any kind of a checking of the property before you bought it to see the condition no we we looked at the property and we considered well we're going to either have to demo this thing or um uh renovated and so we wanted to use the attempt to really evaluate this by an engineer and us to make the determination of which direction we we needed to go to so that wasn't a determinant in buying the the the property a couple other questions um how far how long after you purchased the property did you get the report approximately um this this report can you see the date on the I don't remember the date on the report December 2020 and so we we we bought the property in November I think we bought it in November 2020 thank you and and a couple more let me see um and then you you I imagine after you got the report you got the report back within a couple of weeks and so you were is that is that about right you got it in a month's time or whatever and they disclose what those problems were and so and then you knew all from that point on when you've got that report you know what the problems are how long what has it been that you've decided that you were not going to restore the building to this point now when you come before how much time are we looking at we're looking at a time frame we just really maybe boy it's probably been four or five months from from uh ago that we decided no we we just can't we we there's no there's no way because one of the other things in in taking time with with this thing was um we were not living here at the time we didn't move here um until junee 28th uh 2021 um we were hoping to buy this get this through we bought it in in November we're hoping to buy it get get the stuff done and and and and live in there uh but we ran into a lot of red tape changing uh uh information unclear information as to how we proceed so we were doing this from out of town for the for the first year uh and then once we got uh before uh you guys in uh that next year 2021 September 2021 where you approved that we then had to go back and do the the detailed drawings um that that that were required um to get to get work started on it even and we went like I said went try to get that the demo done so it and then in the midst of the plans because going back and forth with The Architects and plans and doing all that getting that finally approved then we we we said we went and said well no no no you got to have all the trades sign off on it so we had to go back and do do all that and then in the midst of that the county decides to upgrade their systems and they shut us down for any Plan reviews for so it's been a it's all all this go ahead so we'll just cut this my last question from the time of all of that y till now are we looking at maybe two years at the property sat with no decisions being made like you made your decision and so we're looking two years we're looking at we're looking at three years from now that we got approval to move forward and the move forward process has been very hairy um to say the least got everything and so when we got finally when when we got we finally got through then it was an issue in in my household honestly as to what we were going to do and uh so we continued to go back out look at this argue about it go go um this this that and the other but the thing that got me was it she didn't feel safe anymore um okay okay Al righty thank you Mr Sheffield um Larry do you have anything that you could lend to us about the history of the house that would be pertinent and by the way we're obviously very thrilled to have you back sir yes thank you and I apologize uh I didn't have the audio on I saw a lot of waving going on but I wasn't sure who y'all were waving at so when I finally got the volume up then I smiled and waved back um I just I wanted to start out um by just mentioning that uh the property appraiser I don't know how many of y'all routinely When You Can't Sleep At Night sit and look through property appraiser files but uh you will notice that a lot of old platka houses show a bill date of 1900 and this is one of them and I think it's just they just picked an arbitrary date that they wanted to cut off without doing any further research at age now this house is not much older than that but I did want to kind of clarify the age of the house and this in the Florida Master site file this is listed as a contributing house to the South historic district as far as the district being list listed as a district on the national register so there's uh the date of this was established by looking at s Bor and fire maps and uh in 1892 there was a map that was issued but that section of Kirby Street was not under City Fire Protection because it was considered not developed there was one house on the property uh on that little triangle which was a house across the street from um hammock Hall and that burned in the 1980s um this house is first shown on 1897 sanbor map that was published in May of 1897 so all that we know is it wasn't there in '92 but it was there in 97 so it happened in one of those years and in 97 the address was listed as 202 Kirby Street I think when I did the research on this when um Mr Sheffield came before the board um in 2021 which was that was September 2nd 2021 when he came before the uh the board that was case 21-19 I think I had found a couple of residents but as he indicated in his uh report just now I didn't come across uh you know very significant family living in the house but I can go back and look at that information again and just um because of my situation personally I just didn't have time to uh to prepare that for this meeting but that kind of gives you an idea about now the one he was talking about the house being rather plain um there were a couple of features that I noted from the sandborn map that I thought was kind of uh interesting it had had one of those um trying to think of the name of it it's one of those windows that stands out from the side of the house what is that called you know what I'm talking about like a bay window a bay thank you very much it had a bay window downstairs the first window on the left side which is the side of the house it's exposed now a lot of these houses in that period include the house that I live in are not there's nothing very fancy on the side of them anything that was done that was very attractive was on the very front of the house and the reason was the lot sizes were small and so when you were right up against another house as they are with the house that's to the I guess you would call the north of this one there's only 8 ft between those two houses so they didn't go to a lot of trouble making the houses look real fancy on the side but the front of this house had as Mr Sheffield alluded to uh and there's still evidence in the house that this was there it had an O it had an open upstairs and downstairs porch um probably very similar to the one that burned on the corner with with it probably had an open railing around it and that was probably modified you know maybe even enclosed at some point um over the years I just don't have any evidence of that but the sandborn map clearly shows that it has um an open upstairs porch and an open downstairs porch on the front of the house and it has a aay window which I consider to be pretty nice features of the house um let's see was there anything else that I wanted to mention um I think that's about yet um so um the uh yeah okay I'm going to close with that thank you Mr Beaton um just before I open a public comment just just kind of a random Elizabeth thought if if you would give me a moment I I truly don't believe that anyone famous needs to have lived in a property to make it important or historic I believe the property itself is important and historic but let's go ahead and open up to public comment I believe Mr Russo if you would sir I can't hear what's being said can you hear me oh yeah okay um I'm a conservationist at heart um I I bought a 1916 Craftsman home like 2010 man I didn't move into that household like two years ago so I took I didn't work on the house constantly over that time but I did put in about eight years I figured eight years took to restore that house very carefully and it my house is really kind of a time work you walk into it it's it the character of the house is of 20s all the way through so I have a sense of what it takes to restore a house a historic house and I'm reluctant to raise any houses in the neighborhood uh but this particular house in my opinion has no architectural value inside or out it's not Victorian it's not a Craftsman I don't know what kind of architectural style that is but it's very very plain and like I said U many of the elements of the house that might have been interesting or are gone and of course the condition of the house is absolutely horrendous I mean the Sills are rotted most of the floors are gone the walls are bulging out the the beams are rotted I mean it's infested with termites which is actually damaging the other houses in the neighborhood um as swarm I mean we we've seen swarms of termite come out of that house and I'm sure they're damaging other houses especially the ones adjacent to it so I am all for taking that house down there you that's all I have to say Thank you Mr Russo anyone else for public comments yes ma'am algra kitchens 1027 South 12th Street I just want to share some information with you about the way the property appraisers records are done uh prior to the year 2000 coming in the property appraisers computer they had no way to put any year except 1900 they couldn't put the 1800s so if the house was built any time of the 1800s it always says 1900 the last year I worked for them I took the map the uh survey that University of Florida did and I went through downtown patka and I tried to put the actual year built on as many houses I could but I I didn't get all of them but anytime you see 1900 on the property appraisers record it means it was probably in 1800s because at that time they could not go back further than than the year the century of 1900 thank you for the clarification if you could please turn your card into thank you ma'am um and and ladies gentlemen let let's not like pass things or show each other things I mean we need to make sure that we're being absolutely forward and everybody knows what we're talking about um before I oh yes ma'am I was going to say before I close public comment with any any else like to speak good afternoon Annie Davis 420 Kirby Street laa Florida the house directly next door to the structure that we're referencing and I do agree we need to retain the historical fortitude of our buildings however this house is a danger and as Mr Russo just mentioned he's right we get our house treated regularly and the danger that comes from that structure with the termites it's it's again just I don't see how it can be salvaged so I am definitely in favor of um tearing the house down and have it rebuilt so thank you thank you very much for your comments so it it sounds a bit strange but wouldn't it be a perfect world if the house could actually come before and have three minutes to talk about its significance I'm just saying um having said that seeing no other public comment let's close public comment and move on to board discussion ladies gentlemen sir I have one small concern I'm looking at pictures and I see there's some aestus sighting on the house and is that going to be addressed appropriately page 2 two of 71 Mr Sheffield if you would if that's s positively for asbest then then yes yeah thank you sir thank you Mr Hollister Bo discussion Miss vote what bothers me is um the house is in the condition that it's in now because when it was initially purchase the um it wasn't I know you had to go through a lot of different things but a lot of it is from neglect at this point where it just got worse and worse because even when you own an old house it's a constant thing I mean I'm I'm repairing our front porch now and the steps on our back thing over there I just Ste through it you know so it's a it's a constant thing and it it bothers me very much because I don't feel like we have the protections whether they're the ordinances or because things take so long um to be done to protect the homes and the historic districts and and people purchasing with no disrespect people purchasing these homes and and letting them sit for a long time before they fix them and now it's come to a point where it's be it it is a a tremendous eyesore in the neighborhood and it is affecting owners that are next door and so so on and because of of that and that those things happening we're losing we could possibly be losing a home from the 1800s that its value in the Simplicity that it was whether it was fancy or it wasn't or whatever and and that's where or my problem lies with this today that that you need to do these reports before you purchase the property not after you purchase the property and not buy the property thinking that okay well if it's done any good I'll I'll just knock it down historic neighborhoods need to be protected so that's thank you respect Other Board member comments someone like to move us a bit forward with this case Miss West Madam ex Mr sorry Mr Beaton you got jum up and down a wave sir no problem um I I kind of want to EO Miss vot's comments um you know um uh we're seeing these houses and Commercial structures disappear one by one and uh I don't doubt for a minute that Mr Sheffield is going would would his intent would be to put something nice on that property but it's still not the the substantial part of the original house I do feel like that even when a house is uh in bad shape when you Quire it that you have to go into it with the understanding that you may have to have it tinted even before you do any repair to it and you may have to um have somebody there every couple of weeks removing Vines and cutting grass and all because all of that contributes to the deterioration of the structure so you know and I'm not doing any finger pointing because there's certainly lots of other structure that fall within the same category but I just don't feel comfortable on this board um just routinely saying and that um that we're going to we're going to demolish these structures um I I you know I I see a lot of things that could have been done um and at if I recall in the meeting of in 2020 21 nothing was mentioned about an option of demolishing the structure that was that was not in the picture I may be wrong about that I'd have to go back and read the minutes of that meeting but uh I just uh I don't feel comfortable um approving this and I certainly understand the concern of the nextdoor neighbor and other neighbors in the neighborhood about the condition of the building because it it is is or as it stands right now thank you thank you Mr Beaton Miss West did you have something to add ma'am I was just going to um remind the board of the provisions in the code that do pertain to demolition um and just so you can follow along if you're so inclined it's a section 54-79 the criteria for decisions on certificate of appropriateness subsection four and it states in the case case of the proposed demolition of an existing structure that the removal of such structure will not be detrimental to the historic and Architectural character of The District or that balancing the interest of the city in preserving the Integrity of the district and the interest of the property owner um approval of the plans for demolition is required by considerations of reasonable Justice and equity so Food For Thought have fun with that thank you other board discussion if not would someone like to perhaps move us a bit forward I would like could you uh explain the second paragraph of that to me please sure so the second paragraph is more of a balancing act where the city is attempting to preserve the historical Integrity of the district balancing that with the property owners you know it's it's vague and it's vague for a reason because each piece of property is unique and it's up to you as a board to weigh these considerations but it states um the other balancing act on behalf of the owner is required by considerations of reasonable Justice and Equity um and we've I imagine you will hear this probably in every single situation where there is a proposed demolition the cost fact we certainly heard that in the St Mark application that cost was a significant factor I believe uh the applicant stated that cost is a factor here and certainly that goes to the equity component of that Balancing Act but that's up to you to weigh the district's Integrity um versus the the property owner Justice and Equity Mar thank you for the clarification much but it's it's F you know well it it is I mean I I think if we were to look at one true fact it's that historic homes are expensive um there's just no two ways about it all right ladies gentlemen something to get the ball rolling I have no one to pass well actually I guess I could pass Cav to you well I'm supposed to pass to my left M Mr Beaton could you or Mr Jefferson I have I think we should approve this this this um what is it called it's called it application so I move that we approve this application for demolition of this property we have that do we have a second second all right we have a motion in a second further discussion board members or should we move ahead and see how it turns out Madame city clerk if you could please call the role thank you Miss Pierce I say nay nay Miss vote n no thank you Mr Hollister yay yay thank you sir Mr Jefferson yay thank you chairman Rin why do I always always have to be last I'm I'm sorry but Mr no beaten this n thank you chair Ben rbur no all right motion dies should we try again one two three four four Nays um Madam clerk um and one two two yays motion died thank you should we try again can would someone else like to move I am so sorry I I apologize my apologies I for for some reason I I guess I was I'm sorry my apologies chair can I get some clarification on what you're apologizing for did you air in your vote I did not air in my vote um and I'm probably just bright red in the face because I'm terribly embarrassed um some of our decisions are so hard and I got a little bit nervous and I misspoke and I guess I was apologizing for misspeaking but not for your vote no ma'am there really is nothing more to discuss you have considered the application when you have voted and the application yes ma'am Madam chair Madam chair can I direct a question to the City attorney absolutely Mr Beaton does um does the provision involving the Historical Society having input into a proposed demolition only apply if the board votes in favor of the demolition that that is correct Mr Beaton if the board had voted in favor of demolition there is a clause in the code that provides for an opportunity to postpone that demolition um in order for the putam County Historical Society to consider um the matter and potentially uh take some alternative course of action but since the vote here was denial of the application to demolish that provision and the code for postponement and deferral to the historical site Society is not involed or Trigg thank you thank you and thank you for the clarification previously chair at the beginning of the meeting does has the opportunity to appeal um this board's decision Mr sheeld if you have questions about that feel free to contact you have a 30 Dayal thank you will you be y I know I'm so tentative at this point I'm like would you mind um moving on to other business um we have a discussion that was requested on the certificate of appropriateness fees um who would like to start us off with this I asked if we could um someone called and asked my husband actually it was Vita Russo had called and ask my husband how much it costs to come before to to get a COA to come before the board and um when my husband called and got the answer he was told it was $350 and and it and it was broken down and some for the advertisement and some for um I guess the cost of doing the research and so on I had a concern that um that the that that was a very high price especially in this County and especially when we already have people who are not wanting to come before the board and spend 350 $50 to ask about certain things for us to tell them maybe no or or whatever understandably understandably um so I was wondering if you know how we arrived at that price and if that price could be um made less because I want people to come before the board I want to be fair I want the historic neighborhoods to be better um safer look nicer and so on and so forth and I think we we need to do to you know to promote that and I think that's just a real high fee that maybe could be talked about so that people could afford to come before us and we could help them and so on and so forth is that an option of or anything do we have any sort of indication Mr agima how we compare to other similar cities in cost structure and also what the bottom line is to to move forward yeah more or less we have we have uh just a coincidence you know uh as going to the budget cycle important thing that we're proposing are to increase our fees or at least review our fees to see whether they are proportionate to to the time that the STA have to spend on review and applications uh in that sense you know we have uh recommend the some some fees to be increased the certificate appropri fees is one of them currently is $200 and uh we asking for another $50 uh comparing to other places uh for example the city of Okala the fee is $1,500 for a certificate I thought it was 350 not 250 you just said 200 and then 50 yeah so is it 250 or 350 it's two 200 plus the the advertise which is 50 or50 100 150 so it's 3or it's 360 goe if I may it's 160 for the advertising and 200 for the application is very similar to the one in s AO charge basically the same thing 200 they had different uh categories but it's it's around $200 I I yes and and I understand you only have so many comparisons to make but I think St Augustine is not a that St John's is certainly not a comparison to putam County as far as you know residents and their abilities to would to do that would it be possible to look at at areas like say Dand and See's a big one too yeah youd have to really go to some smaller more rule H County well Okala for the example like I said Okala is $1,500 is their fees yeah I me that's the exception uh that just give you you know it's a big disparity between what they charge and what we charge U I'm just that's fine I want a discussion I would like to hear what the other board members have to say or anybody anybody because for me me I think that it's discouraging and we already have people who come and say well they didn't know they were supposed to come and then we don't have people coming and people are doing stuff all the time without ever coming before without pullerits I mean any everything so I just thought maybe that is a factor that you know we can talk about and see and if not at least I brought it up it it's always been my understanding that many many things are are settled um right there in the building next door over the counter with this is what you can do this is what you can't do points of clarification information being passed along um you know when it actually whittles down to needing a certificate of appropriateness I've I've always been under the impression that that City staff has done everything that they can to advise the public without charging them oh the advice yeah if they come to the count absolutely yeah yeah only when they should be the application but they had to they the amount that we're charging currently cover costs no for like no it doesn't def it doesn't not even close not even close okay it does I mean uh it takes a long time to process an application for a certificate on the on behalf of the city staff time and and other things that we have to to spend no it doesn't cover the cost and you had mentioned that that you're dabbling with the idea of raising costs as opposed to lowering them and you'll be doing reports to that to that end I I already submitted that to to you know to to the city manager's office and it is part of the budget uh it's going to be public hearing for the budget is on September 12 well but anyway it's already part of the the the the budget process so if the board desires you know to reduce the existing fees then I can certainly forward that to the city manager's office how do we all feel if I can provide a little bit of verification staff as youve pointed out actually does have the ability to go ahead and improve maintenance if you're replacing kind for kind material even if the the property is within a historic district that doesn't mean to go before this board for a COA and that encompasses a broad SWOT of what most of the repairs that you're seeing in the historic district cover it's only when you start going outside of that LE maintenance that you have to go for for your COA but a lot of that is covered already by staff um the other thing I'd like to point out is that upon the influence of your COA there's no expiration that l in perpetu so for years and years so you're you know you can take your time replacing a porch or replacing the roof or Windows um that won't go away even with inflation so it stays St I don't know that yes it did because I wasn't considering that a lot of that was like for like and I wasn't thinking thinking about that so okay I just wanted to bring it up because it just you know was a concern of mine and thank thank you I think you know getting back to where we were was it six months or a year ago that the people need to be informed You' bought a historic house now what um I I think that leads us quite brilliantly back into the brochure um and maybe a little bit of discussion but before we do that um are we all right to move on with your discussion item thank you okay can I add that as a um as a board member comment or question or actually what could it be under comments I me there there's one opportunity and it is a journ apparently I didn't catch that yes for I don't know if you do an emergency item but we always have comments on the agenda is that given I don't know maybe just you just well it it should be said that that I understand that they a little bit short staff next door and this was perhaps a a first agenda and and some things might have gotten not necessarily put in their correct order and what I would say to that is isn't it lovely to have wonderful City staff and we appreciate you all so much and all of the guidance and help that you give us and uh if no one Minds let's talk about the for sure that last one either last I have one Mr gimo are were there significant changes or really any changes at all to the feedback that that we all presented to you individually at the last draft of the Brer or is it more just the design this is the final draft that we have we're just waiting for the city manager you know to to give this okay and then after that we're just going to you know them off print them and and we have uh we have the address of every single property owner within both districts we're also going to distri rute to tribal companies and realtor um offices excellent so what what you're looking for from us really is just it's very pretty we just giveing an update you know because it's been thank you in the war for so long thank you and and once again thanks to City staff for this and also definitely thanks Miss vote and Miss Pierce for getting us moving in this direction along with um the city like this pict very nice Madam chair thank very nice thank thank you yes ma'am uh I don't believe so I absolutely thank you Miss Pierce so this is this is the absolute final okay good because there's I mean I had brought um mentioned it before like hyphens like there's hyphens all through this thing there's words being covered up by images um it looks like it just needs to be just kind of polished a little bit okay can can we give it oh yeah Circle can we give it would would you all agree that if you take a look at this and you see an error that within the next day or two yeah please um at like the longest like maybe even tomorrow morning let's get it to City staff drop it back off at the office or yeah like to see it get sure absolutely thank you for this Adam chair yes Mr Beaton is there an electronic version of that available that they could send it it occurred to me that you might not have actually seen this sir so would it be possible to get Mr beaten a copy yeah the recent attorning version I'm going to ask Peter to to email to you yeah thank you okay because we did put at the bottom approved by Mr Beaton all right ladies gentlemen further comments otherwise I am looking for a motion to adjourn please I make the motion thank you Miss vote sorry sir um is there any I think I asked this before but I forget the answer is there any law in the book as far as vacant houses people buy houses and is there a law that says they have to be inhabited by so by you know on a year or something no ever um there is within the code um the obligation on both the homeowner or the lender um to register a property if it is deemed uh blighted foreclosed abandoned or vad I walk around when I walk the dogs there's five houses that are sitting empty and is in the back of the room give them the addresses and he'll follow up okay well there you are uh motion to ajour by Miss vote Madame chair before you adour sorry about that uh I I just want to uh inform you that Renee has been promoted to planner she's our planner one now well congratulations Renee and and while we're at at handing out congratulations I I Believe Miss CR is getting married oh she will not be Miss CR for much longer anyway but I'll still be sunny though y' you'll never not be sunny it's always sunny in Paca all right ladies and gentlemen have a wonderful afternoon thank you all so very much for joining us today just it's here