at 7:30 uh p.m. announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act if you would call the role Please Mr dipiero here councilman McGrath here Mr mey here Mr math present Mr stanel here chairman denmore here we have our board planner Mr wiser and our board attorney m steinley okay and our board engineer and our board engineer is he here there he is okay great all right if we could stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Al flag of the United States of America the for stands one nation indivisible all right this meeting is open to the general public is there anyone here who has something they wish to bring forward to this uh board that is not on our agenda tonight hearing and seeing none we'll move along uh we have a resolution in our packet uh application number 23 col 534 uh anybody wish to uh move this resolution you should have the list of who's uh it's not a long list Mr matth you want to Sure Mr chairman I'd like to move the uh adoption of the resolution for application number 23 colon 534 NJ Manufacturers insurance company One silven Way block 202 lot 4.1 minor site plan with C variant uh to install a generator do I have a second second stany out thank you very much Norah would you call the rooll please Matt yes standy out yes James more yes all right very good there's another item in our packet that i' uh like to point out um we'll have a few moments to talk about it if anybody wants to um last meeting we had a discussion about trying to put in some sort of Master Plan circulation element with regard to sidewalks especially the area uh over what Once Upon a Time was known as the Prudential campus uh now that there are going to be multiple um residential sections to that it makes enormous sense to put in some sort of circulation plan that allows for pedestrians as it stands right now I don't think it's particularly safe for pedestrians so I don't know if you've had a chance to look it over did councilman yep no I think it's a great idea and I think you know going back to some of the stuff we talked about and I think Mr deer brought it up right we have to at some point start right the constant pushing it down the road doesn't help so I think it makes all the sense in the world to to move forward all right any other comments or thoughts on this subject yeah I'll reiterate the term that everybody uses a sidewalk to nowhere but if if you don't start you'll always have a sidewalk to Nowhere they'll connect you eventually but you got to start somewhere all right Mr meth actually you might have gotten this ball rolling a while ago when we were discussing the first uh developments there oh yeah no it's um it's absolutely necessary if we put residence in the middle in this campus I worked in this campus for number of years and even then people walked all the time around lunchtime and it was it bothered me then still punish me all right well this is a start I don't think it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I think it's a start Mr meth you have any I'm Mr meth Mr Mr me it's these M names Mr chairman I think that many of the residential areas should get sidewalks because they don't and yet some of the areas that we are trying to improve probably don't need them that's my comment well they're going to put in a plan here I think Mr chairman I I think it when it gets to council that they should they should call it the uh DPO statute is what it should be named sounds reasonable to me second that sure sounds reasonable to me what is the appropriate plan here the support though would be from the people on the other side the street that will not get the sidewalk the people that were getting the sidewalk will not want it that's what we've always seen that's called Murphy's Law so has everybody had a chance to review it and and uh like do we just just do a Voice vote to have me send it out all right so don't even you could do motion second I have a motion to uh Rec recommend that we send this to the council I'll make the motion all right do I have a second second all in favor say I I any opposed all right thank you I will send that out in the morning very good now that brings us to application number 24 col 503 uh si6 silen LLC sixsen way block 202 lot 1.9 this is a item application carried over from June 3rd 20 24 counselor good evening uh Mr chairman members of the board board professionals and public John engino again here on behalf of the applicants namely Cano parcion urban renewal LLC and affiliate of Avalon Bay communities Inc and sixsen urban renewal LLC owner of sixsen way uh both applicants are designated redevelopers for their respective portions of the site uh as you recall we're seeking subdivision approval for the subject property namely sixsen way into two lots the North Lot which is approximately 9.71 acres and which will be owned by Cano at the South lot which is approximately 8.93 Acres the North Lot will be a residential community of 280 units and is necessary for precip to remain in compliance with its third round affordable housing settlement the South lot will contain an upscale Health Club facility which is being leased to Lifetime Fitness Center we last appeared before the board on June 3rd you heard testimony from the project engineer Mario anelli of duberry Mr anelli concluded his testimony except that he had some homework to do relative to sidewalks significantly Mr anelli will address in a moment uh the issues of additional sidewalks internal to the project a pedestrian Crossing um uh over the Westerly entrance which is in a flood plane and lastly the viability of sidewalks on Sven way also this evening we have the project traffic engineer Andrew Andrew F fio of Stonefield engineering who will provide testimony traffic testimony relative to the project as a whole meaning both Cano and uh Lifetime Fitness um we also have the architect for the Cano project L radiio of Lazard design and we also have Thomas Carmen of Malo Bower Carman for landscape architecture again relative to the Cano site um and those are the witnesses we have today we're going to have to come back obviously if we get through those Witnesses tonight we'll have to come back uh for architecture uh on Lifetime Fitness the garage on Lifetime Fitness and then we have a planner who will provide planning testimony but first Mr chairman and I'm I'm sorry Mr napalitano is not here because he questioned um six sven's ownership of the of the ball fields as you may recall at the last meeting I think Council manlia had a something called the deed but it said deed of easement um and uh so uh which I think we are are home which I think those ball fields are home to barany Troy West so we looked into the issue again uh to double check uh for ownership uh there and uh six does own uh the property containing the ball fields subject to an easement uh we have a letter from the title company which has been distributed which you like entered into the record is A4 I think uh the B fields are not going to be disturbed as part of this uh application um we just wanted to accurately accurately reflect uh what the facts are uh on the on the ground so uh without any further Ado I'd like to call back uh Mr ianelli and Mr ranelli you understand you're still under the roow right yes and your licenses are still value are still intact there's been no change to your uh uh professional status from last time you testified that is correct all right Mr Ryan Elli um so at the last board me meeting there was uh discussions about sidewalks internal and external crossing the uh the actual Creek in front um so after the meeting um we we took hard look at the options I actually had a meeting with the D uh last Wednesday and um what we are presenting I have two exhibits that I've given to hand out uh the exhibits are both sidewalk exhibits A and B uh I'll describe them very quickly so why why don't we Mark those now too five if a why don't you describe what you want to refer to as A5 and then describe what you want to refer to as A6 okay A5 I'm assuming is exhibit a is a exhibit showing the sidewalks as proposed in red additional sidewalk in blue additional sidewalk in blue and also on the upper leftand corner a reconfiguration of the surface of the cover on the left to that is exhibit B which is showing how we're trying to and we're achieving a pedestrian Crossing within the existing pav area of the Culver so to go through this very quickly what we uh we're able to do looking at exibit B is that the current curve the curb on the Culver is between 30 and 31 ft um we're proposing to reduce the width of the cartway the travel cartway for the vehicle to 24 ft which complies with your Redevelopment plan and is typical for a two-way driveway um we're also proposing to improve the radius on the way I'm highlighting exhibit B the radius is you can see the existing curb is in blue we're improving that radius to uh with a radius of 30 to improve vehicular movement we're also going to convert now if you look at exibit B what we're going to do is this existing curve line we're going to bump it out create a sidewalk approaching on either side and then once we hit the flood way we're going to BAS basically use pavement markings in signage to create a pedestrian Corridor at at the surface of the pavement um we're also going to use plastic post delineators that would run along side where the 24t and the pedestrian traffic you can see we gave examples of a photo of what that would look like um by doing this we're creating a connection across the Culver without resulting in any fill on the flood light uh that was Paramount when we spoke to the D um we're also proposing to convert if you look at the upper left of exhibit B There is a wooden rail on the covert we're proposing to convert that into a more standard rail uh more standard dot rail uh for pedestrian vehicular the dot was the D was so concerned with the floodway at the Culvert they made me commit that this lower rail on the railing would be above the flood Hazard floodway not to obstruct any flood and so and also we're going to put split rail fence on the sloped areas on either side to create you know a a safer condition where the slope is on the right side of the sidewalk during this meeting the D agreed that all of these things would not constitute obstructing flow in the flood plane um they're all ra rather narrow and the flow will not be impacted they could not emphasize that they would not tolerate any fill in the floodway along the corridor a bank or the CT because there are some Provisions in the rules but that's not along a covert like this it's more towards like an isolated low point so what we did then is that we said okay we had a concern about the bus stop that was across the street so how do we try to make a connection so this sidewalk would come around the new radius we're propos closing a new crosswalk and a curb ramp on the south side of silven way now we also need to reconfigure the bull the bullnose that's out there there's a bullnose in the center Island to to accommodate it so once you get through now I'm walking you across exhibit B you can walk around the sidewalk walk along this area that's painted then you come up onto a full sidewalk with a curve we're going to carry a white line stripe where these lators are so the perception is going to be that the curve is continuing but there's no vertical matter of fact he specifically said no Curves in the flood white um then moving to exhibit a this picks up to a new sidewalk roughly 650 ft long that's going to run on the western side of Lifetime Fitness I'm showing in exhibit a it's shown in blue now that 650 ft is going to result in close to 20 22 to 2400 ft of new impervious and we're going to have to eliminate 15 to 20 parking stalls at the surface and put them into the garage for lifetime because I had mentioned once before that's how tight we are and impervious everything we add we have to subract so well Mr ranelli uh lifetime though regulatorily is overp parked correct that is correct okay so if you're removing 20 parking spaces does lifetime still have sufficient parking to meet the parking requirements under the Redevelopment plan they do even without the 20 spaces so that goes onto the sidewalk now if you look at exhibit a you can see that it's almost a half mile a sidewalk that we'll be constructing on site um so you're able to access the RightWay through the new sidewalk in blue and then you have a network of sidewalks that connect the buildings in the gares so now we I think we have accomplished one of the key goals is to get out of the site and get on to the RightWay and the other Mr just show how a pedestrian can come in and out of the site and access either the Avalon Bay Community or the lifetime fitness facility sure the board can see how there is continuous sideway access to the to the exit of the site as you've just just describe referring then again to exit I mean exhibit a you have starting at silven you have that access I just described a new sidewalk running along the western side that will cross the street connect to the sidewalk that's proposed along the residential that can connects to a sidewalk that goes in front of Lifetime and there's a sidewalk that goes between the parking deck and Lifetime and there's also a sidewalk that goes up on the elevated portion that goes in to the uh side door uh lifetime so this there's also the sidewalk then that continues down the residential and wraps around parts of the building on the East and also wraps around almost the entire building on the west um so that was the two out of the three concerns we talked about were was the um the crossing of this of the stream and the on-site sidewalks now the last one is the sidewalks along s um the silvin way I had mentioned before I actually walked the entire north side of silvin North Side being our side mhm the stream that runs along there goes about, 1500 ft in either direction so you're going to have very similar problems that we're running into with flood plane and flood waves more specifically uh along that whole Corridor and the grade along there is also it varies some slopes towards and some slopes towards the site and some slopes towards the road and there's also a jcpnl easement in there so one of the things you have to realize is that on on our side of the RightWay you have about 6 feet from the RightWay to the curve on the south side which is acoss Street have about 8 ft so you actually have more RightWay on the South Side than you do our side um there also we did uh some markouts when we did some test pits out there and there is an electrical line running in that JC on E so that's going to really restrict your ability to reduce the grade because you may be reducing the cover on that power line so now you're fighting trying to match grade or reducing grade in the floodway with electrical line and trying to meet Ada these are all starting to mount as issues the other thing that we had talked about is potentially esro the the sight are at roughly 600 feet along the frontage the applicant does not want they want to build the side they have no problem with it it's just building it on our side with all the permitting issues that we're going to have and potentially not getting it approved they rather put it on the Southside where there is far less incumbrances let me ask you a question here what would be the permitting uh obstacles to getting a sidewalk approved on the applicant side of this of uh Sven and in your opinion would they be able to get the permit the three main obstacles would be fill in a floodway increase in impervious coverage because we do the South southsider can be done as a offside Improvement um impervious coverage on this side is really tight there's only about4 Acres of existing impervious coverage there so anything I add and there's really no way to put a detention Basin on this side so the increase in impervious coverage would be very hard to deal with filling in a flood plane avoiding fill in a flood plane while meeting all the standards that you have to meet and on top of that what you're going to do is end up triggering a hardship waiver um you will have slim to none and almost impossible to get this hardship waiver because when I go to D they're going to look at that the fact that you're encumbered along this whole Frontage and that encumberance continues, 1500 ft in either direction you go on the other side of silven I've walked it you can go almost there's a covert located near Littleton that's the first time you start hitting a little trouble on that side and you can go all the way to the main intersection to the east so it's pretty much just Landscaping on that side and the regulatory environment on the south doesn't really have the same hurdles to get a hardship waiver in my opinion would not be approved because they're going to turn around and say to you you could just go to the other side of the street now is there is there public transportation on the other side of the street yes one of the concerns was how do we make the connection I'm highlighting both exhibit B there's a bus stop right here located near the driveway to our a paral across the street so what we're proposing to do is building the accommodation we we have built the site made the connection got across the stream put in a crosswalk put in a handicap ramp and also you're going to hear from the traffic engineer we're we're going to sign it properly we're going to use you know solar powered flashing crosswalk signs I think this is a balance between dealing with a highly regulatory area on the North that by the way I'll repeat can continues in either direction this stream runs from Littleton past, 1400 ft to the east you're going to be running into this more and more along that side so uh that's one of the things that I think the master plan will show when you're doing this because you're going to find that you're going to have certain areas that are more accommodating and certain areas that are not as accommodating and you had also discussed I think at the last meeting uh the degree of difficulty in obtaining permits generally uh for a developer applicant as opposed to a municipality correct correct um there's a host of things items called perit by rules when the perit by rule is a do part of a a project the perit by rule can't be used it's got to be used for like a linear development or something it can't be associated with a project so you could use there's other mechanisms uh Min pality can use to to in improve sidewalks that are not tied to a project they're they Envision that need if you tie it to a project they look at it as part of the project uh that's just the way the DP and there's actually within the code states that if you haven't turn it by rule you're not allowed to tie it to a project that requires a DP full approval so I mean we will as a condition of approval agree to Escrow funds that would uh for the cost of the sidewalk um and I assume if you're going to be requiring developers to pay Prat a share whatever for the cost of the study we would do that um we doing a master plan we don't know what that master plan is going to say uh but whatever it ends up being there'll be money there from this developer to address the sidewalk uh issue uh that would be for the frontage of our property um and we'll agree to that as a condition of approval that don't make sense to me um do you have some uh questions here my only question uh and it's really not about the silin it's about the back there is a requirement in the Redevelopment plan that a and I will it's section 10.5 that says any Redevelopment of the North Parcel shall maintain pedestrian access to the um basically to the ball fields um it looks like you're stopping that red line short of the ball fields is there any way we can expand that to make that connection if that's what the board wants I mean last time we heard I thought we heard something different and we said we would maintain the status quo it said maintain I think the Redevelopment plan says maintain and and and we will do that there was never is there an actual sidewalk there or is it just it's just a beating down path I I I I think I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I think the the member of the public who was here last time did not want uh you know sidewalk connectivity to the ball field and and I think that the in the Redevelopment plan it says maintain access we we are doing that we're not going to inhibit access in any way that the woods are going to remain that area is going to remain undisturbed I think the only thing you've got here is is that you may have some residents who want to go play ball but you're no longer going to have the the parking that was made available to Bar West so I I don't know that the need is as great right so Andrew do you have uh yeah on that um the field there's an existing dirt path that's not a it's literally a dirt path that that's there it's cut in you can't make it accessible um but uh if the board wanted I don't see if you just want it to have a u uh you know maint maintain as as the code said uh keep that dirt path and an access to the gate that that dir path goes down looks like you got on your red line and your drawing you have a sidewalk or pedestrian walkway uh down to the east uh by your um fire Turf yes area there um if that could be made that it's that you well I think that fence and gate is right there MH so you guys are very close if someone wants to walk that location it does basically maintain access to that same spot is my two cents um it's up to the board if it should be improved um with uh some kind of stone dust on that existing dirt path but I don't see how you can make it accessible uh with uh you know at GR for a wheelchair can only be um some some wooden steps if if if anything um but but it is um they they do have access to that existing gate as he's got it laid out it's just a matter if the board would want that to be upgraded a little bit with some stone dust to uh kind of more identify that that that walkway that's there now or that path that's there now that's my two cents on the U uh access to the fields um I reviewed and went over with Mr ionello the uh sidewalk the internal circulation of the sidewalk two silven way it makes sense it works it does get access out there I know he's conveyed to me and he's conveyed to us tonight the difficulties would believe it or not something that seems very simple um I have no issue with what's being proposed as far as the walkway want to see a few more details and obviously safety's Paramount um we can go over the details of safety while still abiding by the dot no fill in the floodway and flood plane rules um I did notice that the plan on silvin stops short of making that connectivity to the bus stop or connectivity to the U existing driveway opening just beyond the curb uh uh bus stop I mean it would be um in the best interest to have that small extension made you know it could even be on a separate set of plans if that helps instead of being wrapped into this project but it it should extend to the bus stop and to that um driveway just east of the bus stop I it's a few feet east of the bus stop I'm advised we can do that on a separate set of plans um that was it for for the sidewalk walk I I think uh you you met the intent of getting that circulation um of the facility the health club facility and the uh residential out out to silven way so I don't I don't have many comments or suggestions to improve it let's put it that way that's what I have on on this testimony tonight so far okay although I'm sorry and then I do like your suggestion it will take you up on it for uh the solar power rapid flashing beacons that are pedestrian act actuated there since it's sort of a midblock Crossing um I I suspect I think on the on the you do have adequate sight distance for vehicle to stop on silven um but since it's not at an intersection um the uh proper mutcd signage and advanced signage and the solar powered uh rapid flashing Beacon uh sign with the with the flashing Beacon at the crosswalk is is appropriate so yeah that I ask that that be included um that's all I have all right Mr Matthew look like you're ready to ask question first question first of all thank you this is a good start um is there any reason why this this sidewalk connection across the Culver couldn't be mirrored on the other side yes because you have a floodway that goes into the road on the other side we see we cross the floodway is here on this side you see this blue line on exhibit B see it the floodway here is that so I can put I can mirror it but I can't get the sidewalk we could mirror it but I can't get a sidewalk to connect to it if you're looking to just put it so they can cross it part of the issue is pedestrians will take the path Le resistance so and the grocery store is closer to the second driveway when you're not putting a a sidewalk on my and the grow the wigman's grocery store has a sidewalk along its entire Frontage on the north side of Silman so my concern is and that's less than a mile from the site all right we also have few restaurants down silven way within walk not I'm sorry with down dren way um with access of dren way um so my concern is that people are the desire lines will have people walking and I want to make sure that they they they have the ability to do it safely I mean I believe you're putting the apartments are probably going to have 450 to 500 people in them right based on the sewage 280 units so 280 units 280 units yes and if you work backwards from rsis water demand that equates about 454 people something like that um all right so my I I'm so is there any technical reason why it could not be replicated on the the side I think you said that there's a problem on that c vert with the floodway they would have if there was a pedestrian Crossway on that roadway would have to be at Great i' take it yeah I mean what we why we picked the this side one it was closer to the bus station to exhibit B um I'm referring to but also you see the curbing that we put in to create the driveway like when you're turning in the driveway you're turning along curving that curbing is all going in outside of the floodway so we were able to accomplish that on this side the floodway goes all the way to the middle of the road so I can't create the bullnose front and back on that I can't because I would have to raise the grade so this curbing that I have in front and in back of this at grade crossing I'm not going to be able to do the same thing here on the road side of it it I could put it there it's just going to be open and they're going to be able to walk into it but don't forget if we Bond I'm sorry we escro in the amount to build the whole Frontage this sidewalk on the other side is going to start you know almost where that driveway is and that sidewalk is going to run all the way up to this so you're going to have a sidewalk that you're going to see on the other side that's going to have a crosswalk on the other side so it's not like we're stopping it short and I think ultimately when you look at this master plan I truly believe that you're going to be able to run the sidewalk you know down to uh DED and way along this whole southern side because there's really no flood plan or wetlands along that whole side so I think ultimately it's going to be running along that side because you're going to be running into the same issues with running that sidewalk on the north side of the property to our East and especially I know for on the west because the floodway again goes into the Rope so it's just a problem of the floodway and it because it's adjacent to uh Channel they're very sensitive because any raising of the grade will alter the flow pads so they really are really strict on it it it it was like three times he asked me you're not filling you're not filling and I said no we are not filling okay one of question about some of your testimony you said that there's electrical underground lines yes and do you in fact know what the depth of those lines are no but I have to coordinate the work but where we're crossing it now we're all in fil we're raising it so when you stated that they could could be a problem for creating sidewalks because of that that was not actual engineering fact that was more speculation on your part no because the grade varies and so I don't know the depth if that depth is set to the minimum like they do a lot I'm not going to be able to lower the grade so I don't know the depth even by a mark out but I can tell you been working long enough to know that these are usually put at minimum cover minimum cover for grass is not the same as minimum cover under sidewalk correct but if I lower it I don't know without it's an unknown so I don't I would have to assume that we can lower the grade to try to maintain and not put fill on a grade and I could have a problem with that conduit it's it's just one more thing another hurdle to get over I mean the depth of the conduit they mark it out they don't give me the depth but typically it's a minimum cover understood one last question by the health club since you're going to since you're not proposing a continuous sidewalk to connect to the residential could you fill in that one last piece of sidewalk um move cursor up that one piece so that people don't have to go all the way around if they going to stand sidewalk uh the issue there there is a great break there's a wall oh never mind all right there's a wall okay fair enough other questions by member oh Mr the oh okay good to see you any question questions from other members of the board on this are there any questions by members of the public on this testimony at this time if you could please come up give us your name and address and uh address a question to the uh witness Allison Cogen for favor road I was the public that came up last time last time there was some kind of a wall like a 4ot wall at the end of the property before the path to the fields and that's what I was concerned about if there's nothing and it just goes to the path I think you're right it's still accessible but if there's some kind of a 4ft wall there then that isn't really accessible and I think if you're putting residential units in with inside of the playground the resident should be able to walk to the playground there is a small wall running along the back but it stops at the edge of the building so you could see the wall drawn right here the wall is actually shown on exhibit B I'm sorry a uh in that line where I'm highlighting so it's behind the wall but it doesn't extend beyond the projection of the building so we should be able to grade that out and maintain [Music] that got quiet on my w thing right how are you [Music] all right so the wall won't impact the access to that path we will make sure that the path if we have to move the break in NE gate whatever we have to do that path will be maintained but I believe from my recollection it's over on the other side of the wall but I will confirm that other members of the public have questions of this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none counselor you thank you Mr chairman at this time I'd like to call it Mr Andrew vishio of Stonefield engineering who will provide traffic testimony thank you thank you and again the way we've structured it is that with respect to civil engineering and traffic it will be to the site as a whole and then we'll do the individual uh Cano and then a lifetime with regard to architecture and the like [Music] do we have any spares of those exhibits that were here it was marked there were a couple of exhibits that were handed out new ones yes it do you have any of those exhibits left that okay that's more we're actually short we're short too okay well let me hand these to the mayor so he can see what they were talking about if you please raise your right hand you swear affirm the testimony that you're about to give be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do pleas state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record Andrew viio V as in Victor i s c h IO 92 Park Avenue Rutherford New Jersey Stonefield engineering and design thank you Mr viio can you please describe for the board your uh educational and professional credentials and include any licenses that you possess absolutely I have approximately 13 years of experience in the industry I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey my license is in good standing I'm also a certified professional traffic operations engineer I received my bachelor's and master's degrees both in civil engineering from Georgia Tech and I've been uh accepted as an expert uh in traffic engineering before planning and zoning boards throughout the state Mr chairman we respectfully request that Mr visho be recognized as an expert in the area of traffic engineering any questions from the board on the qualifications of this witness hearing and seeing none all yours sir okay Mr Fish I wanted to describe the traffic aspects of this application for the board sure and uh first I want to state that duberry Engineers prepared a traffic impact assessment dated February 7th 2024 I began work on that project when I was employed by duberry uh Engineers uh at the end of last year um and was retained to continue to work on the project upon my employment at Stonefield engineering and design just wanted to clarify that uh for the board's understanding um so before I get into any details of the results of that study I just want to state right at top uh a high level overview of the track traffic impacts um using an IT trip generation uh exercise the previously occupied office building um generated more trips leaving the site during any single peak hour than the proposed development would so um I I did not want that fact to get lost as we go through all of the uh details and get a little bit more granular uh with the remainder of my testimony um as was previously testified to the site uh is currently vacant uh the office building is approximately 195,000 Square ft has approximately 750 surface parking spaces site is accessed via two unsignalized driveways along silven way silven way itself provides two travel Lanes in each Direction separated by a landscape median those travel lanes are approximately 11 1/2 ft wide uh silven way carries approximately um or I should say prior to covid carried approximately 10,000 vehicles per day the number is likely lower given uh reduced office occupancy rates um the site can be conveniently accessed from all directions uh from the immediate North and South motorists can utilize route to a to um those traveling a bit further north and south can utilize I 287 um Route 10 of course provides access from the East and West and even more conveniently dried in way provides a uh unsignalized grade separated uh interconnection between Route 10 um and silin way uh for motorists traveling in either direction of Route 10 so those coming from the uh West so to speak don't necessarily need to utilize Littleton Road um the existing site uh based on our research also um effectively has no crash history based on state um the state database there was only one crash uh along the site Frontage in the 5 years preceding um covid um the proposed development of course is a mixed use development comprised of Lifetime Health Club and four-story multif family Residential Building access would uh continue to be maintained by two uh the two existing unsignalized driveways uh on-site circulation would be supported by three North South Drive aisles and two East West Drive aisles um with respect to the trip generation of the proposed development we utilize stand standard industry uh resources um as we indicated in the submitted traffic report um the reoccupied uh office building would generate more trips than what is being proposed during the weekday morning peak hour the proposed development however would generate more trips than a reoccupied office building during the evening peak hour but again as I mentioned at the top um even with more trips in the proposed condition in the evening peak hour the weekday morning peak hour um I should clarify the weekday evening peak hour for the reoccupied office still generates more egress trips than the proposed development not withstanding um this uh uh um decrease in existing trips in the morning and in the comparable trips in the evening uh we did perform a Capacity Analysis or an operations analysis at both site driveways um I want to point out that we utilized preco uh traffic count data available through the New Jersey Department of Transportation database so our analysis is conservative in that regard and uh we did not take um I've been talking a lot about um uh the reoccupied office versus the proposed condition but we did not take any credit whatsoever for um what was previously there the driveway Capacity Analysis is every single trip that would be generated by the proposed development nor did we take any credit for any interaction between the proposed residential use and the Lifetime Health Club um which we do believe there will be some Synergy there and some residents who um live in that building and um are members of of the uh the health club but we did not take any credit there um based on our industry standard analysis the level of service and delay when motorists are exit exiting and entering those side driveways um are at uh acceptable um standards we're looking at cues of approximately one or two people uh Vehicles leaving the site during the critical weekday evening peak hour um moving along to the parking Supply the proposed design would separate the lifetime parking and the residential parking entirely the lifetime portion of the development as Mario Just testified to meets the requirements of the Redevelopment plan however the residential portion of the development does not uh comes close but doesn't exactly meet rsis standards um so we as a team uh collaborated um with the operators of the residential portion of the development to uh obtain uh real world data in New Jersey at other mid-rise residential developments in Suburban settings uh based on that data um again same residential uh operator the average parking demand uh for Avalon developments is 1.17 spaces per occupied unit we are providing 1.16 s spaces per occupied unit um so very much more than the average uh parking demand across their uh similar residential developments the highest parking demand rate that we saw in New Jersey that's comparable to this was a location in Wharton um which at a parking demand rate of 1.4 parking spaces per occupied unit again that's less than what we're proposing at 1.67 so we feel very comfortable with the parking Supply that we're providing um despite not meeting rsis standards um with respect to on-site circulation I don't want to blver the point we we've talked at length about how uh We've improved the sidewalk connection to way I just want to briefly talk about deliveries because that was uh identified in one of the uh review letters um deliveries for the residential portion of the development um would be limited to your typical package deliveries such as UPS FedEx Amazon what have you um those would be accommodated by the uh the surface parking towards the bottom right of the page on the exhibit uh that's on the left here there are uh approximately six uh short-term uh parking spaces in addition to a pulloff area that could accommodate those uh mail carriers um that's about all that is expected of of the uh of the residential development with respect to deliveries regarding the Lifetime Health Club uh they generally categorize deliveries um as uh food and miscellaneous supplies which occurs twice a week to daily um it's not a specific schedule so it could be you know two times a week to five to seven times a week depending on demand um those deliveries are made by a box truck typically but um could be a wb40 or WB 50 um they take approximately 30 minutes and generally occur early morning or midafternoon so not in that you know morning Rush Hour evening Rush Hour Peak period the only only other type of delivery that's regularly scheduled for the lifetime is a chlorine truck given their pools um those deliveries occur approximately every other week U for most of the Year during the summer it might occur weekly um those are accomplished by a wb40 or WB 50 um The Turning templates for those trucks have been included in the submitted site plan um those take approximately 30 minute 30 minutes um and they typically occur off peak during the afternoon so again not during your morning or evening rush hours um so uh in conclusion the existing site driveways are adequate to accommodate the proposed site's um vehicular demand um and the proposed parking Supply is sufficient to meet each user's need um I did my best to weave in responses to comments in the review letters in my testimony but happy to answer any questions that the board or professionals may have at this time well I I have a couple of more questions yes um on the lifetime portion uh how many spaces are are required and how many spaces are are being proposed uh the lifetime is uh proposing 56 spaces whereas 410 are required okay and can you can you uh you have any uh empirical data for a lifetime like you do for Avalon Bay to suggest or to indicate to the board as to why uh more parking is uh required than uh than the standard we do um uh data was collected in 2016 um at uh two locations in New Jersey to existing lifetime locations in New Jersey um uh Berkeley Heights and florum park uh that empirical data for this specific user uh the average uh parking demand rate uh was 4.8 spaces per 1,000 square ft whereas we are again proposing 4.94 spaces per 1,000 square ft okay and how much of that parking will be in the structured garage Approximately 80% will be in the structured garage um I can give you the specific number I think while you're looking for that I just represent to the board that uh with the loss of the the uh 20 spaces or so those would be surface parking spaces um I think you're going to see some revised plans that would look to make that up in the in the structured parking garage about 78% would be in the structured parking garage and in your opinion uh access to the site is both safe and efficient that is correct okay thank you Mr chairman I don't have any further questions Mr kiano do you have some uh um yeah I have some comments but I don't know if one one of the board members want to go ahead at all if add some comments I just had a few questions on um let's see on the trips the trips for the um fitness center versus the residential um is there um when does the peak occur for the for the for the fitness I want to see how that compares to the the peak I know you gave a combined Peak for both uses but when do you anticipate the Peaks occurring for the fitness center and then you know is it a weekend Peak is it what time of day on on weekday is the peak goodness yeah the the peak is uh anticipated to occur during that 7 to 9 a.m. uh range during the morning peak hour and that 4 to 6: p.m. range in the evening peak hour uh based on um based on it data the uh the weekday evening peak hour uh does generate more trips than the Saturday midday peak hour okay so week weekday is more than the Saturday uh that is correct weekday uh is slightly higher than um Saturday but it is higher and the comparative uses or comparative size and parking uh requirements the other facilities did they have uh the pool uh amenity as similar to this one one of our questions was does um the anticipate is this enough parking anticipating the use of the pool as well as a fitness center yes so the The Institute of Transportation Engineers land use code for um a health and fitness club doesn't explicitly State whether or not the the uh exterior space is included in the square footage so what we did was we cross referenced our analysis with again empirical data collected at other lifetime uh health clubs um and we found that uh generally speaking the the evening peak hour is um extremely uh extremely close to the Institute of Transportation Engineers rates within 6% uh during that critical weekday evening peak hour um the lifetime specific data uh does show uh significantly more traffic generation for a lifetime during the weekday morning peak hour as compared to the Institute of Transportation Engineers um but again at no point would uh would the even with that lifetime specific data at no point would there be more trips leaving the site in the proposed condition than a reoccupied office building entering there are more trips correct but it's actually Rel it's extremely close it's um uh a a reoccupied office during the morning peak hour generates 262 Ingress strips um and for the the lifetime using lifetime specific rates that is 232 during the weekday morning peak hour so the office is still higher Ingress during the weekday morning peak hour the lifetime actually has slightly more ingr Ingress trips during the evening than an office does in the morning if that if that makes sense but it's a difference of 20 trip um so it's uh I would say to Minimus and then going back to the parking that you're proposing for the fitness um it's required to be 4 per th000 1 per 250 and you're providing uh 4.85 uh spaces per thousand I think you testified to 4.94 pending um the reallocation of some surface Park in uh that was previously testified to and the ability to make up that parking in the structured parking garage so I testified to 4.94 and I think that's roughly about where we'll end up okay and then Switching gears to the circulation and deliveries um I see you have a an area for um backing in and for deliveries coming to the residential um do you have any area identified on this plan for servicing the um um uh fitness center pull out area or anything no there isn't and in my conversations with with lifetime that's typical for their developments um the the box trucks um and those larger trucks would have to utilize either the box trucks would have to utilize uh parking spaces surface parking spaces the um the chlorine truck specifically um is the one that we looked at a little bit more closely just based on where that delivery does need to occur so that's going to occur at the the top of the page that you see there which is the Westerly Frontage of the Lifetime Building that's that door uh provides access to um the pool maintenance room so to speak um so for uh 30 minutes off peak once every other week there would be a a truck uh delivering uh chlorine uh standing in that drive aisle um so with that and what what's your professional opinion of having that vehicle in the circulation Lane blocking partially blocking uh the the uh well I guess that would be the uh if they on they may be on the wrong side of the road as well um what is what is your what is your opinion of of where that truck would stage and what the impacts are yeah I thought about that that um at length the uh the latest version of version of the mutcd uh does provide some guidance on Alterna traffic for low volume roadways um so we uh would be happy to work with your office on a series of you know temporary signage that could be um deployed at the time that that truck is being um that that truck is delivering um to stop traffic uh uh entering the site um and exiting the site to facilitate that alternating pattern is there any aail I know you're you're fighting for every square inch of impervious cover are you able to do some kind of bump out or some kind of partial bump out or some kind of delineated area um for this um this truck because you know where it's going to stop right you know what by the door uh we did give that consideration um it's challenging to provide that that the natural location for that would be where we just in uh proposed side Sidewalk um which makes that that loading area uh particularly a cut off area at that location particularly challenging um so I think uh a combination of um temporary signage uh that the U the operations team at the lifetime um could you know temporar temporarily deploy um is is the best possible solution that we have for this case I think that was everything that I had thank you do you I have nothing Mr chairman hey members of the board yeah actually first a question for Andrew um in your review letter you talked about needing an analysis at silven and uh Littleton and silvin and Dryden I mean we're dealing with 2019 traffic volumes right so far that's correct oh yes I missed that there oh you're both named Andrew I'm sorry oh yeah I apologize yeah our traffic reviewers reviewed this uh thing comment number 52 and 53 right um have you done an analysis for that and can you share that data uh under traffic assessment comma 20 52 and 53 um we we have not um we focus fed our analysis on um the operations of the driveway um we are anticipating um as I uh spoke about um at the top uh roughly even distribution of traffic and during the site from either direction uh so even when you're looking at that uh evening peak hour where we're seeing that increase in trips um half of those trips would likely Traverse through Littleton Road um which is uh less than 100 uh new trips which the New Jersey Department of Transportation would qualify as not a significant level so um uh based on based on our uh trip distribution um and our Focus really on the operations of the driveway um uh uh that played in into our decision for the scoping of our traffic study so your trips to dried in they do increase or you haven't evaluated that yet they do increase we have not evaluated it I but I but I based on NJ Do's definition of significant we would fall below that threshold now did you check our traffic ordinance on town when you I'm aware I'm of the traffic Ordnance and I am aware that the threshold for the town is much less than do I am aware of that because our roads are smaller generally um another question I mean we at least preo we had a and I don't know if it's the same situation we had a major queuing problem on silven way heading towards Littleton Road because Littleton Road itself was all backed up your driveway analysis presumes that traffic's free flowing in front of it correct correct so your analysis if there is queuing isn't really accurate is that correct I think that the operations of the driveway uh if there were uh significant um impediments as a result of the queuing would reflect in the crash history um and there just isn't any well the queuing is a fact it was there I mean I don't what I don't know is it still there now that Co with Co and the change in the nature of the office of Campus so have you actually been to the site during peak hours yes uh the evening peak hour only did you see any queuing no when were you there just to of curiosity uh prior to the last scheduled hearing um that was June 3rd June 3rd around 6 o'cl okay um another question let's pivot to parking for a minute and the the residence the the uh residential this is there's the garage is it open access or do you need a key card to get in public access okay oh um I I apologize um I just um assumed you meant the Lifetime right no no no residential oh I apologize the residential would have a gate um an intercom type of method for for visitors yeah CU but my calc you need to have 140 spaces available to the public visitor spaces those spaces are provided but you would need to um use that intercom system to be able to access the facility okay now I understand you've also Taken full advantage of the state ordinance with respect to electric vehicles I also understand that like electric vehicles you're not allowed to park there for extended periods of time there's a time limit for how long you're allowed to use them so the question I got is your calculation how many spaces you have per unit M if you cannot park in an electric vehicle space how is is that how does that uh factor in I think that the state's ordinance and the way that they have uh modeled um the progression of implementation of make ready to full EV charging takes into account um an increased share of electric vehicles for prospective residents so uh just because we're uh you know allocating a certain percentage of Make Ready spaces the at you know uh when we receive our CF um those Make Ready spaces will not be exclusive to electric vehicles but you know over the next 6 years years um the state and we anticipate uh more residents will have electric vehicles um and will be able to take advantage of those spaces well thank you for that but that's not my question my question has to do with the fact that I believe the legislature requires that you're not allowed to park in an EV space for longer than I think two hours or something to that effect I I I would have to clarify that's not my understanding of it but I can I can get back to you on that I I don't think that's accurate as to the law but I'll look into it as well okay thank you because I yeah I did a panel on this for the New Jersey planning officials and I believe there's a time limit how long you're allow to be in EV space hours I I think it might um apply to public EV SE spaces there was a model EV ordinance that every town adopted that discussed public um ebse spaces um and I think that did have a time limit but I'm not sure if it would apply in this instance so you should look into it I I I know it doesn't but you should have your board attorney look into it as well understood okay thank you other members of the board have questions on this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none are there any members of the public who have questions of this testimony at this time please come up state your name and address ask your question Allison kogan for favor Road I'm not quite sure this is the right one but I didn't hear anything about moving trucks and how they would be considered because I know of one of the other plan board beting there was a lot of discussion of where moving trucks would go and then where the bus stops will be and where the children will be waiting for the bus so the moving trucks the the garage would not have ACC adequate clearance for uh a standard U-Haul type of truck would have clearance for a U-Haul type of Van um the if someone wanted to use uh a box truck they would have to um work with the residential office to reserve a space in that um uh in either that pull out uh pull off area um towards the bottom right of the page or or one of those Park spaces um and uh the the the bus stop um you know we we'll coordinate with the town but just based on my professional experience it it would be you'll coordinate with the Board of [Music] Education thank you Council and we'll agree to that as a condition of approval that we'll coordinate with the board of education for the appropriate place bus stop and and and the police department and the police department other members of the public have any questions on this witness on this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none counselor thank you Mr chairman I'd like to call up our architect R Rosado of bazard design and again this is the architect for the Cano residential this is only going to be testimony with respect to the residential uh we do not have any more testimony this evening relating to uh Lifetime Fitness and just to clarify this board that's up right now was that already marked previously yeah that that was marked as A3 A3 okay thank you [Music] okay share [Music] you can have mine when you go when we're done all right if you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record L Delmar Rosado and my last name is spell r o s a b o um address S 85 21 Leber Pike suet 7 700 Vienna Virginia um company name lar design thank you and Mr Rado can you provide the board with your educational and professional background briefly and licenses that you possess sure I um I have um a degree with a masters of architecture from Virginia Tech Virginia um I have about years of experience uh in the practice of architecture and I have uh I am licensed in the state of New Jersey and as well of uh other states uh across the United States um and you you appeared before boards such as this and been recognized as an expert in architectural design I have okay Mr chairman we respectfully request that Mr Rado be recognized as an expert in architecture any questions on the witness's qualifications hearing and seeing none counselor thank you Mr chairman Mr zado can you please U provide the board with the architectural aspects of the application sure um again just for the residential correct um before I get into the architecture details um I want to point out that um during the process of uh submission of this application um we are being in compliance with the development plan and the design guidelines as it's relates to the architecture of the uh Residential Building um there have been very little comments uh regarding this portion of the application uh of which we have addressed or we will address tonight on testimony um and then with that I'll I'll go over the exhibits and the um in the architecture submission do you have new exhibits I do um the uh first exhibit I'll be speaking on is how many exhibits do you have is it do you want to pre-mark them um I have a total of nine exhibits um three of which are new and uh the remainder are part of the application that was submitted why don't we Mark the the three new ones that you have now so that we don't have to stop during your testimony disrupt your flow yeah um the first one it's uh the one that you see here on the left it's called se01 and that would be what are we up to 76 A6 just describe A6 if you would here this this is A7 um six would would have been that exhibit B from the sidewalk plan okay you separated them okay so give it A7 please [Music] A7 and the name of the activity is perspective rendering um the two additional ones are here on the floor um it's material board A1A and material board a 10 B [Music] so this will be a a yes 10 A1 a will be a a and A1 B will be A9 [Music] okay okay so to begin the first exhibit we have is a perspective rendering um of the Residential Building um this this showcases the architecture character of the building as view from the entry to the Residential Building um this View it's taken from this East Side uh location of the building across the drop off area and look directly at where the entry doors of the buildings are um you can see the massing of the corner the design of the roof line and the uh articulation we have provided in the building to provide interest in the the variety of materials we have on the architecture [Music] the second exhibit it's uh page a03 um it's a typical residential level um noted as residential floor plan R2 and what this shows is uh the relationship of the residential portion of the building coloring Orange um and how it relates to uh the parking garage um the parking garage is concealed by the uh Residential Building um along the front of the building here in orientation um it's if you see on the side plan um this part of the road and part of the building with the access to the garage here um it's what is located on this side um the building has two card on either side and like I mention the garage it's located in the center of the building um to for convenience of access and de centralized um to the residence of the [Music] building moving to um down to the ground level um the building organization I'll describe the building organization um the front door of the building it's located at the uh East Side on this angle part of the building from from here um so when you come in on the inside access way you counter the the main entry um which is highlighted over here with cany in um the elevations which you see in further exhibit um when you enter there is the ly area um which will house the mail uh mail area and package room um you will see the directly across a elevator for access on every level and so across you have direct access to an internal Courtyard um of the building um which in fact has two accesses from various parts of the uh Corridor um the eular access is happening from um the street here midpoint of the building um it is align with the road that it's access Central to the site um and uh as you can see again uh the garage is behind the residential portion of the building um there are three elevators um the one that I already mentioned um that is in close proximity to the lobby um the second elevator is located in this towards the rear of the building mid point adjacent to the parking garage for convenience of circulation from the parking into the Residential Building um and the third um elevator is located on this occas in the garage um for accessibility to where the loading area is um the loading for the residential building it's um located in this area uh which you can see on the site plan is here um it's a parel parking away from the street and it has direct access to the building through this sidewalk and Corridor that um aligns where where the elevator uh location is and this I should be able to bring um the elevator to all the floors of the of the building um there's an additional access um pedestrian access on the opposite side of the garage uh for convenience to um provide convenience and access to the ground floor uh um Eastern side of the building um for trash we have a centralized location um one trash room in each [Music] floor I'll go back one exhibit so that you can see where it's located right here midp point on the uh building in each floor and then the main um trash room located at the ground floor um in this area where trash will be collected um and uh this this uh show shows you the organization of the [Music] building this next exhibit A7 is building sections and it describes the height of the building um we have a four story residential building with with a M um the building height it's 57 ft 7 7 in for the residential building where 70 ft is allow so we in fact are about a little bit over 10 ft below the allow Building height for the residential portion uh for the garage um the garage height is 61 ft 7 in where 80 ft maximum it's allowed so in fact we're about uh 17 or 18 ft below the uh Building height allowed um it's six stories where seven stories is allowed um and and you can also see where uh in this section uh building section number two um it's a cross-section through the garage you can see where the residential portion of the building it's curing garage from the front [Music] view the next exhibit um it's the building Renovations A8 um this is an example of um the architecture character of the building in our submission we show all the exterior elevations of the buildings I'll just go through one since architecture character wraps on every side of the building um on top of the elevation uh this I'll describe elevation number three which is located here on the on the bottom right you can see a key plan um with the number three and that's the elevation here on the east um as you come from the side of the entry um uh the top here is a paral plan where you can see where we have variation on the depth of the building and you can see how that relates to the elevation um all the materials um are noted here in the material Legends um with a designated number and this matches the numbers noted in this material boards uh for for reference and all the materials uh proposed are um allowed per the development plan uh as an example we have the brick uh colar here noted as number one so you can see here is the brick uh example we're proposing and as noted here as part of the building at uh first story base uh location here with the portion of the brick extending and that location um and another example you can see here the tack noted as number nine um mashing material leg as architectural [Music] shingles and that repeats on each side of the building this is again the entry of the building uh which is was reflected on the perspective rendering um the canopy and this is the front building as look from the uh Road uh side um my last exhibit is a s exhibit um page 81 um we have um I'll start with the we have three signs proposed for the building uh the first sign it's a canopy sign we have one canopy sign where three are allowed on the Redevelopment plan for about 12 square ft um where 75 Square ft are allowed um then and that is located at the main entry of the building above the entry doors and and is mounted on top of the canopy then we have uh sign number two and sign number three which are weal signs so there's two weal signs um where two are allowed for the mment plan uh one also located on the upper level of the main entrance to the building which is here in the East and the second one here sign number three is located on the complete opposite side uh of the building on the west um there was uh one of the comments um for for the world sign Dimensions that mention the need of a potential deviation to the re Redevelopment plan um as it was interpret that each of these two world signs being at 68 square foot in therefore bringing the total square footage to be over 100 square fet requirement on the Redevelopment plan um however it it was not um entirely clear um or confusing the calculation as noted in the drawings so to clarify that um which is going to bring up that these 68 square feet already included both signs combined um if you can see these two signs are different dimensions and are described by this string dimensions on the elevation and in the calculation here on the area you can see that one sign is 26 Square ft uh that's sign number two and sign number three which this is a discrepancy in the drawing is actually 40 uh 7.2 Square ft um instead of 42 squ ft uh for a total of 72.5 square ft which is below the 100 square ft allowed a maximum uh four wall signs so we just wanted to clarify that uh meaning that two wall signs are there for complying with the r development plan [Music] um and this is my last exhibit I'm happy to answer any questions you may have now members of the board of questions on the architect Mr chairman Mr mey if ma'am if we could refer to S if we could refer to the this portion that shows the plan and I want to talk about the elevators sure um before I move on I made a I made um I told you a incorrect number um this sign is 46.5 Square ft for a total of 72.5 square ft both [Music] combined now you mentioned that there are two elevators one just beyond the lobby and one diagonally opposite on the other end of that portion of the building correct and then the third one is in the parking garage area but there's no elevator in that portion to the left that portion of the building to the left is that correct that is correct why not three elevators are sufficient for this at total units but they're not situated logically so that somebody in that furthest apartment has to walk almost the entire length of the building why if some body is there is access here um from the parking garage pedestrian access here through this uh stairs here and the there's elevator here so they will not have they will have to walk um somebody located in here they will have to walk through this Corridor into this elevator is that an adequate situation I mean I I don't know what to say about that we believe this is adequate situation cap person I would have a devil of a time walking that distance to the nearest elevator why can't there be another elevator in that portion of the building shown on the left there's there's um I mean there's regardless of whether this elevator are located here or here um there will still be the need of traveling through the corridor to the front door of the building for example um so we believe three we have located three elevators uh distributed on the plan um to provide um accessible to various portions of the building not adequate as far as I'm concerned thank you C can you please point to where those elevators are once again C can you please just point to where those three elevators are once again yeah um one elevator is right here another elevator is right here andev is right here okay thank so do you have any more questions no no no no Mr can you um in terms of the the number of elevators and the placement of the elevators are those permitted under the uh building code yes and is that what sort of governs the placement the number of elevators and the and the placement of elevators yeah there's no minimum requirement or maximum requirement per code um we provideed elevators for convenience um and uh three elevators for 280 units it's uh a good provision for in my experience for this type of building and Mr Milly when Mr Rado is done we we'll have another witness to address your okay thank you other questions from members of the board on this witness um I I do have one question um on sheet A2 a02 how would someone who needed a wheelchair be able to Traverse across the from the entryway to the west west building on the first floor or would they have to go up to elevator and down so if you started at the lobby and you wanted to get over to the Western portion would you be able to yes there is access through here to to go to this side of the building at the ground floor and I see and it is accessible um it it is accessible to um people in the wheelchair okay is that conditioned space all the way through um this is not conditioned space all the way through um at this location um but it is on the upper levels and there's also um accessible um access here um on this Corridor through this entrance okay thank you any other questions by members of the board or just could you just give a little information on the courtyards what kind of amenities in there and the access to the courtyards can you just describe the courtyards sure um I defer to the design of the courtyard to the landscape architect will will be providing testimony um I can tell you that from an architecture standpoint there are two accesses for each Courtyard um located on this card here on the East one is located here is located here across and corar on the west um you have access to the Courtyard here and uh the opposite side you also have access to the Courtyard do you have access I had plans where it's tough to get in and maintain Courtyards for maintenance and changing of plant material and other things so is there access from the garage the courtyard like how how do you plan on having materials brought in and out through the building into the courtyard I I'll defer that answer to our landscape architect testimony but do you have doors like access actual of your building into the courtyard from from someplace other than the interior quarter of the building there are doors from the AR from the building there are door locations uh on this Corridor and this Corridor to the cour but do you have access to the outside or to a garage through the through the like how would they get from say they're bringing in plant material there's going to be plants in there yes I I understand he's going to testify on the plant material but yeah but I think she's I think she she's testified as to what the access points are so we'll we'll defer the rest of that going back to the trash I know you have a trash room and the trash levels uh generally how does it get from the lower uh level there is it small wheel dumpsters how how do they how do they get from from the trash compactor inside the building to the truck in in the driveway outside what do they what do they the the um trash the trash room is located in this in this area of the building um and it's meant to be picked up in place um the actual Logistics of the trash pickup I'll refer to the applicant of how this is Operation wise um but again it's meant to be um internal uh to the building um okay that's it thank you Mr stanel um just re-educate me on the uh exits and entrances here again on the first floor so let's just say I live in uh you know a two unit over here two-bedroom unit on this side um believe that's the West Side um I don't own a car so you have to go through the lobby and then Traverse all the way across to get to your [Music] unit I apologize um could you yeah so let's just say or let's take even a a worst case scenario right this this up her left corner apartment I don't own a car so I'm I'm a walking pedestrian the only way that I'm getting to my unit is I have to come into the building literally Traverse the whole building to get over to that unit there's no other entrance way over here I'm missing that there are various entrance to the building the the front entrance is not the only entrance to the building um there's access to the building from this area there's access to the building from this area and uh there are two egress stairs located at the back of the building where um you should be able to use um to access the inter of the building if you are resident um you're when you when you say that like the midsection there that there's access to the building is that cutting through the garage access no this is the entering directly into the Residential Building and then into the corridor internal Corridor of the building where it says load access okay that's where a resident will walk through the load axis you have the ability to enter through this door okay and those are all handicapped accessible yes if you see if you see where it says load access you have uh connection into the into the corridor of the building uh you can also access to uh the access access to the front of the [Music] [Music] building other questions by members of the board hearing and seeing none other members of the public who have questions on this witness on this test at this time hearing and seeing none counselor uh thank you Mr chairman I'd like to call Mr Ron Liddell at this time to uh all right let me uh let's call our landscape architect I'm not going to forget about you Mr mey I promise thank you sir all right all right so I'm going to call Mr Thomas Carman of M Bower Carman uh the landscape architectural firm for canel good evening if you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record sure my name is Thomas S Carman c a r m an and um at 200 Union AV Briel New Jersey um office name company name is Malo Bower Carman we are uh Landscape Architects M so Mr Carmen if you can provide the board with your professional and educational back background and also provide them with any licenses that you possess sure happy um I am a licensed landscape architect here in the state of New Jersey I have a degree in landscape architecture from Rucker University um been licensed since 200 um or I'm sorry since 1997 and uh I have actually had the pleasure of appearing before this board in the past on a couple of other applications your license is in good standing it is it is Mr chairman we respectfully requested Mr Carman be accepted as an expert witness in the area of landscape architecture board have any questions on the qualifications of the witness hearing and seeing none thank you Mr chairman Mr Carman would you please provide the landscape architectural aspects of this application for the board I'd be happy to so this evening I'll walk you through give you an overview of the landscape architectural improvements as well as the exterior recreational amenities within the uh within the two Courtyards so I I will be focusing on looking at um exhibit rendered site and Landscape plan on our leftand side that's the plan that I think was previously a three so our Focus will be on the Cano Avalon Bay uh Community all the way on the right hand side and I have a new exhibit up there um Cano parcion landscape plan this may have been in the package last uh during the last hearing this color rendered version if not happy to why we Mark at 810 and could you provide um the oh it was that's right what is the date of that document this exhibit is dated 63 2024 and I'm also going to reference two other exhibits this evening I'll have uh West Courtyard dated 63 2024 so I could mark this a 11 and then the last one that I will be referring to is the East Courtyard which will be [Music] a12 again dated 63 2024 so we've proposed a uh a richly detailed land skape plan um throughout the site along the roadway Frontage along the building foundations the perimeter um of the property as well as within the courtyards so we utilize uh approximately 25 different varieties of plant material to create this diversity um plant diversity we utilize some deciduous trees at the frontage as well as in the courtyard such as Maples Oaks and some sweet gum uh the foundation the planting around the building itself um utilizes a mix of both deciduous and Evergreen uh shrubs some perennials and ornamental grasses and we locate them uh to complement the architecture and then kind of provide and layer in some textures of the various plants along the two sides of the uh the property so referring to um A10 the plant on our right on the the right hand side as well as the leftand side we have some evergreen trees some cedar and some Holly trees that provide some additional screening to the adjacent parking lots and all the proposed plant material that we propose here is Hardy for the uh the application we utilize sun and shade when we're selecting it and then certainly on the outside of the building we're relying on some deer tolerant plant material within the courtyard we certainly kind of loosen up and uh not necessarily pick from that specific plant list um the fire protection letter there was a comment that we're happy to make some adjustments to the plan in terms of making sure that we have three- foot clear around any of the fire hydrants as well as the uh FDC connections um what I will do now is I will refer to both a11 and a12 so a11 on the right hand or on the leftand side this is the uh the West Courtyard and um the courtyard itself you'll see that we have a p paved area that links up the courtyard on a diagonal um linking up the interior ior Corridor so residents would have the opportunity to get out and um just navigate through the courtyard as well as enjoy some of the amenities such as uh barbecue grills table and chair seating a synthetic lawn panel with some Adera chairs um located around it there's some low lever Ballard lights and uh some Festival kind of string lights that hang over the barbecue areas to create some ambiance then also some of the residential um units around there have uh private Terraces as well so they would have access out to their own patio similarly on a12 which is uh the East Courtyard this Courtyard actually has the interior amenity space located right off of it as well so residents have the opportunity to come out through there again connect up to the uh to the adjacent Cor and um seating opportunities for just um Quiet Moments as well as barbecue grilling and uh and some Synthetic Turf out there as well again we take into account sun and shade aspects for all the plant um selections and related to good comment um by Mr kiano related to you know access of this we've done a lot of or just maintenance of a courtyard itself we've done a lot of different um projects for Avalon Bay they have um very high standard of Maintenance that they provide to their properties both on the outside as well as um within their Courtyards so while we work through the planting design of this we're cognizant of it we're trying to select material that requires a lower amount of Maintenance so the lawn areas that you're seeing in here are in fact Synthetic Turf so there isn't weekly um lawn maintenance required the the ground covers that we propose are primarily Evergreen ground covers so they don't require um the dropping of leaves and necessarily bringing that out on a routine basis but we do um have some deciduous material out there so there will be typical kind of a fall cleanup that their um outside contracted maintenance staff um does routinely and um they would have to bring that material into one of those corridors and then um travel down the corridor to where the um garage access or the loading access trash location is and they would just come out in that location their truck would be staged um where a potential loading um space is and they would be able to um move that material out from there doesn't happen often uh but at times a plant may need to be switched out or something and they do it the same way they tie that plant material down pretty tight and then they carry it through there during an off hour and uh bring it out um so it's a it's a operation that happens routinely and uh we haven't had issues with that's an overview of uh the landscape improvements um for Courtyard as well as the surroundings the one thing that I did not mention on the park side Lake parney Park side we do have some naturalized um uh seed mix that transitions to that existing uh Woodland Edge so just kind of blurring the lines and creating a seamless transition of the uh the building to the existing vegetation thank you I have any questions of this witness on this testimony at this time no one professionals do you have any he answered my question thank you okay I I do have one question yes sir um good evening I I think at the last hearing there was some testimony from the engineer that the landscape material um in the front of the building along silven would be used in order to um deal with the water quality issue on uh in terms of uh uh storm water management can you just very quickly walk us through what makes those plants different than other plants that you're using so our office was not the landscape architect of that portion of the lifetime um site however the material that is utilized in an application like that I can't speak to the specifics but native uh material that are appropriate to taking in in of water and then being able to to dry out when the the waters recede um and in doing so um they they actually will help to clean pollutants through the process are are we going to hear from the landscape architect for the lifetime we don't have a landscape architect for Lifetime uh we do have an architect okay okay no questions no further questions from the board uh are there any members of the public who have questions on this witness on this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none counselor okay thank you um lastly for The Limited purpose of being able to address Mr mil's question and I think there was a question on trash want to call Mr Ron lell from avalan Bay that was question oh you said trash I said end the question trash you please raise your right hand you swear affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do my name is Ronald Liddell l a d l l I'm the senior vice president for Avalon Bay communities Inc the address is 105 Elm Street Westfield New Jersey all right Mr Liddell you can please address Mr Milly's question uh just took down the chart but I can I could respond to it anyway um so let me just reiterate one or two things that was said already by the architect there was no requirement whatsoever for a minimum number of elevators based on the number of units nor there was a maximum number I believe that in New in many jurisdictions I actually think of New Jersey I know I don't even need an elevator for a three-story building I I'm not sure if I need for a four-story building I decided many years ago when I joined abalon Bay over 21 plus years ago that all four story buildings that I build in New Jersey will have elevators although Avalon Bay owns operates communities in 12 States plus DC and in many jurisdictions we have four story walkouts even in those jurisdictions handicap accessibility requirements only apply to the first floor once you get above the second floor there's not a handicap accessibility requirement thus there's a self- selection that goes on for someone someone that's handicapped in New Jersey I've built over 25 communities and the company as I said is over 300 communities we believe that the elevator number that we have here is adequately can you put that I'm going to refer to it so I might as well just have it up there so I can respond better otherwise I'm just going to point my finger in the air and you're going to look at me like I'm crazy I don't want to do that if you could do the floor plan at the typical floor that' be great is that a02 yeah if you know that's pretty good I I didn't know what it was so thank you that's a l even that that one works too that's why he's the chairman that was pretty good um so I understand why this you're thinking that whoever's let's use this one over here walk this is not a defense or anything but r this is not in any way defensive and I hope you don't interpret it that way what leads to how many El you put in and where they're located is really two or three aspects one is the geometry of the site which leads to the geometry of the building two is we don't want unnecessary elevators um they're costly there's a maintenance requirement and if they're not really going to be used we don't want to put them extra in we look at it from a few perspectives one convenient not only for residents that live there every day and want to get up and down but for movein too because if someone's moving in and you didn't ask that question but then I an elevator's down for a sum of hours and by the way you just can't pull up with a truck and say I'm moving in hi I'm here doesn't work that way at Avalon Bay you register we reserve time we reserve the elevator for you you better be in and out and we move you along we have communities that are much further from a distance where this particular unit is is here to the elevator that exists the I think the largest I have longest I have is over 300 feet now it's a straight linear path um so maybe a workout but it's still very convenient about it our goal is not to put extra elevators in that don't serve any purpose I'm very very comfortable for 280 unit Community both not only the number of elevators but where they're located too the proximity I don't think is that hard at all and that's one response the second response is every prospective resident gets to see their unit we have a model unit that's down that we don't use only for model purposes but it's not like someone has no idea where they're going some will select let me give you a few ideas some may say I want to be on the third floor because I want to be able and the beauty of this typ deck by the way I don't know if someone testified I'm just going to add to it this is a wrap deck there's a Podium which the deck is below and there's a wrap where the building wraps around it a few benefits of a wrap you can't see the deck I think we build nice decks but most people don't like to see a deck you can't see this deck secondly the biggest benefit is that you can park on a third level for example and not have to use an elevator walk right in to your unit podiums I don't like to do for few reasons first of all they're much more expensive second of all people perceive them to be even though they're not Subterranean they think they're below they don't want to below and every person lives in a Podium unless they want to walk the stairs must take an elevator so we think the combination of a wrap deck the number of elevators that we have the geometry of the buildings it's not just one long football field type building they're shaped I guess two rectangulars you can call that way I'm not the architect by the way I think the proximity works very well and I think based on our experience which is pretty extensive incomparable Suburban communities we're not just in an urban environment no we don't but go ahead yes if I may clarify one thing I wasn't suggesting an additional elevator only that the two in the one section on the right one of those could be in the portion on the left so you still have three yeah Chrystal changing that now would involve you can't even imagine what that would involve so I only want to tell you what it would involve we went through this a lot beforehand it's not just that we stick our finger in the air and say this makes a lot of sense we have experts we work with regularly we have feedback we also I don't know what you know about Avalon Bay we don't use third party managers so we manage our own property so the Management Group which is not me every day sits there with us and signs off on what you see here so if they're comfortable too it's not just developers who walk away from it when it's built we live breathe and eat our communities and I think that makes us different to manage and understand that process so that's my best answer I can give you with regard to elevators thank you you're welcome trash um what was the exact question on TR I want just a minor question I I'm assuming that there's going to be wheel out carts that you can take from the building when the garbage truck comes I mean as you mentioned the management is in coordination with the Haulers is that 100% correct but you said even even better but let me explain to the board since you may have more experience than other board members because of your background so in a midrise situation if you live in our community you will take your trash generally to a to a shoot on your on a floor they're on all four floors you would walk over with your trash I acknowledge before you tell me yes there could be a rip in the garbage bag it could cause problems guess what I clean it up if that occurs and it does happen there's no doubt about it but the beauty of it is you're inside if you want drop your shoot um drop your trash down the shoot it goes as you as Andor described into a a shoot down below it's actually a large garage door that opens up the truck the hauler pulls back in self-service by the way you just roll it out puts it right on the truck tips it puts it right back in door closes and goes off on its way we have a separate shoot for recycling works in the same way with regard to that we're actually getting better we used to not do the sort of the self-service aspect of it but again because it's Avalon Bay not only do we manage the property with regard to leases we manage the property with regard to maintenance so responsible for looking at that shoot looking at that trash room looking at the hallways that the garbage is maintained and if something happens you know a bag broke we're going to clean it up what we find is that when you live in our communities you take pride in it so you make sure that the bag doesn't break I don't know what all of us do whether you live in an apartment or a condo or a single family home but I know I live in a single family home the bag breaks sometimes and it drips all over my damn driveway and I have to take a hose out and clean it off because that's what I got to do and we do the same with regard to Avalon Bay but everything you described is how we designed this trash situation I think we do a great job in maintaining it we I've been in Avalon 21 plus years I have never in the 21 years used a d an outdoor dumpster that's just in the air outside even when we had outdoor recycling as do have in our garden communities which are three stories they're in a recycling trash building that we use for maintenance purposes and there you just pull up if you want with your car or by hand throw it in there and once again the scavenger truck comes in pulls it out the door opens and closes just like that so all of our ways we do it in that matter the way you described thank you welcome any other questions by members of the board Mr dich yeah um again it's more one of the concerns I have on the left part of the building I feel like there is not sufficient uh exit uh out there again I'm hoping fire department looked at it if they're happy I'm happy with it but I still have concern right if you look at the right part of it there are enough you know I see like two or three exits there at the time of emergency people could use that I noticed that on the left part of the building there may be a big queue I know choking point there so so choking point for pedest for people people for exiting right at the time of emergency right so there only one exit there if I see that right otherwise you know people will be choking there you know that that exit point maybe you know become a hazard so the best answer I can give you is we are comply we have to comply with uniform construction code I'm not going to say we do because I don't have the expertise to say that and your attorney who's on the ball completely would say I shouldn't give that type of testimony as a fact witness which I can speak to but not as an expert witness it's been it's been represented to me by my architect who is licensed to make that statement that we comply with the uniform construction code in addition to that assuming we get an approval from this board at some point we then ultimately have to do construction documents and your construction department will make that separate determination that I comply with uccc for some reason that your construction Department thinks that I don't I'm going have to amend my plans with regard to it I am confident that the exits we have as designed for our architect and ultim construction department will reach that conclusion that we comply with the UC no I get that again I like I said I'm hoping fire department looked at it and they're happy with it I'm happy with it's not I still want to raise my concern that's all want any other questions hearing and seeing none other questions by members of the public of this witness on this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none counselor that's all we have for this evening Mr chairman um all right we uh we still have uh Lifetime Fitness Architects and we still have a uh a witness who will testify as to the garage and then the planner so we have three more witnesses uh none of but we're not prepared to to do that tonight okay so you asked for a special meeting on on what dat 15th of July 15th of July all right are we willing to uh we've got the time to notice that there there'll be a special meeting for the 15th of July and then I'm going to ask the board if they're willing to adjourn this case and I'm assuming all tolling of time and absolutely Mr chairman time will be extended my house so is there a motion to adjourn this meeting until uh July 15th yeah at 7:30 p.m. so if anybody is here for this case I'm assuming this is the only notice that's going to be given you're not sending out further notice we're not sending out any further notice Mr chairman you're correct it would be adjourned to July 15th at 7:30 p.m. here in the municipal building so for any members of the public who are here for this case to hear what we hope will be the conclusion of this case the meeting will be continued on July 15 so is there a motion to continue it July 15th motion to until July 15th do I have a second second all in favor say I any opposed all right is there anything else that needs to come before this board at this time no no do I have a motion to adjourn motion is there a second fall asleep on you guys anybody opposed all right good night everybody good night early after speaking Marina this is your in the coordinates so what it is