yes you're you're on all right the meeting of the township of precip Troy Hills planning board it's Monday January 22nd 2024 7:30 p.m. uh we have some members who have not yet been sworn in uh and I'm going to say this part here before I go to that announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4-6 SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act um I'm going to have you call the role you want to swear them in first and then we'll call the r that's a good idea okay Dominic I'm going to swe you all on at once when I say if I could stand here sir yeah you're fine say state name and then timate number Dominic is Ultimate number two Ted your ultimate number one that's here your title and J you're going to be class four okay please raise your right hand and repeat after me I state your name I do swear just read I state your name I do solemnly swear I will support the Constitution of the United States I will support the Constitution of the the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constition of the state of New Jersey that'll be true faith and Allegiance true faith and aliance to the same to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments established in the United States stes and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people so help me God so help me God I do further solemnly swear F swear th will impartially and justly perform perform all of the duties of the office of all of the duties of the office of planning board member planning board member alterate number one the tach of par Troy Hills hill Hills according to the best of my ability according to the best of myability so help me God so help me God thank you guys congratulations thank you you now we can call the role yes we can Mr did here Mr Pio here councilman McGrath here Mr mey here Mr napalitano here Mr Shaw here Miss Smith here Mr stanel here chairman dmore here we have a board planner no we don't have a board planner or engineer this evening excuse me we have a special we do have a special planner here Mr snikes and our board attorney Mr very good all right if we could stand for the Pledge of Allegiance [Music] please I pled Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the it stands Nation God indivisible and justice for all my out all right this meeting is open to the general public is there anyone here who has something to bring before this board that's not on our agenda tonight hearing and seeing none we can move on uh we have no resolutions or agenda other than our other business which is 1515 Route 10 Redevelopment plan Amendment request good evening Mr chairman and members of the board my name is Nicole madak m a g d z a k of the law firm day Pitney here this evening on behalf of the applicant the applicant is the current developer of the property located at 1515 Route 10 which is block 200 Lots 1.04 through 1.07 as some members of this board may recall this particular property is subject to a Redevelopment plan that was adopted initially just before um the pandemic and then amended during 2020 so construction is currently underway if you drive by the site you'll see that many of the buildings are already up and cruising along hope as quickly as possible through the winter um in order to finish the development so right now the developer is working on leasing for the tenant spaces so as some of the board members may recall and for the benefit of the new members the ground floor portion of two of the buildings is intended to have a combination of restaurants and Retail and just different uses in order to create this district and a vibrant Town Center type community in this area so what we've realized in in going through the Redevelopment plan and just the interest in tenants that we're receiving is that not all of the uses that um are approaching us and that we're able to engage with in order to potentially have tenants are accounted for in the Redevelopment plan additionally some of the tenants that we are very close to having leases with are asking questions about things like permanent outdoor dining because it's really important for the two anchor um restaurant tenants so two of the spaces are intended to be full service restur so you go in you sit down um some you know weight staff comes over and you order your meal and maybe you hang out for a little bit so those those two what we're calling our anchor restaurants are um really pushing to have the permanent outdoor dining space so the way that the Redevelopment plan is written currently it doesn't really contemplate having a a permanent structure like a roof type structure even though it's open on all of its sides to cover that dining area or something that's permanent every year so the ordinance that exists today on the books in parcion separate from the Redevelopment plan allows for an annual renewal of essentially a license to have outdoor dining and I think U probably a large Genesis of that was the pandemic because a lot of restaurants wanted to have outdoor dining so we are able to comply with a lot of those requirements but are seeking an amendment to the Redevelopment plan to allow not only our structure to be permanent in fact we'd actually like for it to be connected to the building so it's not going to just be a popup tent it would be a a very architecturally detailed and designed structure that would be there year round um the table and chairs obviously wouldn't be out year around because on days like today when it's 15 deges most people are not dining outside but at least that structure would be allowed to be permanent and um also building into that Redevelopment plan the ability to keep that outdoor dining every year without having to go back to the town for an annual license so there are other requirements that are looked at during that annual review view that we would be able to comply with and that we think could be built into the Redevelopment plan but I think just the for the tenants that are going to be there the process of going back every year and asking for um approval for the same thing that's going to be out there is something that we're hoping could be modified as part of this Redevelopment plan um the uses that I had noted that are not necessarily contemplated one in particular is a a ability to have a combination use so we have been approached by a restaurant SL retail tenant so they do have a restaurant that they operate but there's also a retail component to it so you could go in and just go to the retail side and and purchase something as if it's a store but you could also go in and just dine or you could do both so the ordinance allows for each of those or the Redevelopment plan allows for each of those uses separately but not necessarily combined in one tenant space so it's not really a new concept of a use um in terms of the underlying uses themselves it's just putting them in one t tenant space that's not actually accounted for specifically so in order to avoid a use variance we would ask that that be added um the other use that is increasingly popular is a medical spa use or a med spa um it's actually not really contemplated in many Municipal ordinances currently it's more of an upand cominging hybrid use that's a combination of a medical use and a spot use so the those kinds of places do things like botox and you could also go there to get a massage you could go there to get a manicure so it's more than just your nail salon it's more than just a spa but it's not a full-blown medical office so it is a hybrid type use that really just wasn't contemplated at the time of the underlying ordinance or the Redevelopment plan so that's another use that is seemingly very popular and has a lot of interest in this particular area and not even just this mun municipality but the county as a whole we're seeing it pop up a lot more so we would like to add that as a use also and then obviously which is very important with the uses and it was at the time that the Redevelopment plan was adopted is parking so we have uses in the Redevelopment plan that are permitted principal uses and then we have uses that are conditional uses and the condition that's currently attached to those uses is uh or relates to parking so we have to prove that we either have sufficient parking based on just a straight forward this is our use this is the demand that's what's required in the Redevelopment plan and we have it or a shared parking concept which is built into our Redevelopment plan that's the only condition on certain uses and currently restaurants are included in that category so we would like to amend the Redevelopment plan so that um restaurants are not considered a conditional use and the reason we think that it's appropriate as a principal use is it still has to go through the zoning process so it still has to get a zoning permit prior to a tenant moving in and at that time typically parking is evaluated we would Supply the um proof that there is sufficient parking and also with the new state statute related to electric vehicle charging stations which we do intend to install on this property um we can actually adjust the way in which parking is calculated because there is a bonus if you provide um electric vehicle charging stations so at the time of the Redevelopment plan that state statute didn't exist and and the ordinance in your town that codified that statute also didn't exist so none of that was really contemplated at that time and we do think that the parking works even if it's calculated in a way that um counts the electric vehicle spaces differently and as you may know just from other applications that have come before the board in the last year and a half or so since that was enacted you can count up to a certain percentage more than once if you have the EV spaces and the developer is proposing to install those EV spaces on site anyway because it's something that they'll certainly need there's going to be a demand to have electric vehicle charging um and at the time that this was a approved it just wasn't contemplated so we'd like to allow that as an accessory use even though I think by the state statute it should be allowed anyway because currently they could go po zoning perment and and put one in but just to make it abundantly clear that they can have electrical vehicle charging stations and that the development in Project is subject to that statute um and then the last item relates to signage so we're finding with the tenants that we're talking to that it's really important for them to have visibility from Route 10 it's really one of the benefits to having this project is that so many people drive by on Route 10 and right now the way the Redevelopment plan is drafted um all of the units that face or that are in Building C which is the one that is going to front on Route 10 aren't necessarily allowed to have signage on that backside so unless you happen to see the signage um on the corner or know what's in there because you're on Google Maps or something like that you're not just going to have that driveby visibility um so we have seen a lot more increasingly requests for that signage so in lie of coming in each individual tenant for a variance application for signage we're seeking to amend the Redevelopment plan to account for that as well that's really the highlights from a a high view of of what we're proposing um I do have Max Dorne here with me this evening who's a representative of the developer we do have some renderings that our Architects put together if that's of interest for the board to just see kind of what this concept looks like in terms of the permanent dining and some of the signage that we're proposing Mr chairman if I could uh also I I would love to find out what it is we need to do certainly certainly thank you and good evening everyone uh Ed snikes with the firm of Burgess Associates professional planners we were involved in the original um Redevelopment plan for the property and we helped to write the ordinance go through the approval process things of that nature and I wanted to let everybody know that we've been asked to uh opine on on these uh proposals from that standpoint um and I wanted to make sure this board had the ability to hear about it first before we offered any comments regarding it because we wanted to see what we would be authorized essentially to work on we didn't want to go out ahead of anything uh before it comes to this board so essentially what I've asked them to do is to come tonight set up this meeting so that they can at least introduce what they were looking for um the board can give their initial reactions and or wait for us to come back to you with recommendations from these uh initial requests um so what what I would offer to the board is that it's really sort of open for discussion at this point um I do have some initial questions that I'd like to ask of the uh applicant relative to this and maybe they have some answers now or we can discuss it and then get back to the board uh with regard to those issues should you decide to move forward with any adjustments to the regulations essentially do you anticipate a site plan application for these accessory structures or what I call Accessory structures maybe they're not because they're attached to the principle structure uh for the outdoor dining for the outdoor dining yes we do anticipate the need whether it's an amended site plan because technically our site I mean we're in construction but we're not done with construction yet so however it's however it's classified likely un amended but yes we do anticipate particularly because they're attached to the building that we would be coming back to this board uh you the standard process of submitting application notice coming back to the board for a public hearing and presenting the formal designs for those two spaces okay that's important I just wanted to offer that to the board that you will have an opportunity to see what those are so you get a sense to understanding if I can try in on that I think that's important point because the one thing that maybe an annual permit doesn't give is a resolution based on a site plan application that then runs with the property when if you do it via site plan then the board would have apped on all of the kind of nuances of the outdoor dining when I think it's either or you know if it's either you do on an annual license annual licensing basis or you do it via site plan application so I agree with Ed on that one that that's an important aspect of that and sometimes the annual licensing I'll just jump into this from at this standpoint helps the municipality to deal with let's say violations and or any sort of nuisance things that may come up and out door dining but yet due to the health department regulations likely this is going to be a highly um uh what I say regulated from the standpoint of a uh a landlord overlooking the property you know and watching what the individual restaurants are doing if there are complaints things of that nature the other aspect to the outdoor dining that they're asking to be included is outdoor uh music right loud speakers uh things of that nature so we may want to what I was thinking of some of the things to offer to the board is craft in a time frame relative to that of when it might be permitted because you do have residences that are living at the uh facility so obviously those are important as well so it's those sort of things that I was I was wondering about in the outdoor dining um that combined retail uh restaurant type of activity uh do you anticipate that to be a specific uh ratio that would be defined through a zoning permit uh as far as how much is dedicated to retail trying to Define how we arrive at parking requirement for that so I think in terms of the parking requirement we're thinking of it as I know it's one tenant space But as breaking it up based on the use so that the parking would still be calculated based on the use even though the square footage the square footage well the square footage for the retail component and then I think our restaurants are by seats seats or or square footage whichever is greater right yes so um we anticipate it being calculated in that way um which think would be a conservative approach for a a because in theory you could go to the restaurant and then walk over to retail and you're still just one right group of people but at least if we're treating it in that way for parking purposes we it should be conservative okay thank you um The Med Spa use you also indicated medical office was another potential user is that something you're still uh looking for yes so it initially came to us through a med spa which again isn't doesn't fall quite into a personal service category it's not quite a medical office so that's sort of a a hybrid use um and with that though we don't have any leases currently there have has been some interest from like a dental office or or those types of uses would fall into the medical category the only issue I have with that and again I don't want to get into too much of the weeds here but um the concern for the shared parking obviously the board is reviewing that with their professionals uh to try to not overburden the zoning department relative to making sure they can understand a shared parking agreement or or plan in order to make sure that's still going to work when you do have these more intensive uses whether it's a dental facility or a medical office that would be the only other concern that I would out would voice for consideration uh that we discuss let's say and whether or not it's a cap or a square footage or something to that effect so that it doesn't upset the ultimate apple cart I guess when you come back in for an amended plan maybe that can be defined in some way because I know you touched on the restaurant as aspect of it from a an amended site plan standpoint and You' be adjusting certain things relative to that but um this way the board and their professionals can review that and doesn't overburden the zoning office for that sort of interpretation or discussion just just a a question because I I've invested in companies like Cera and and companies like that that do uh cool sculpting and and Botox and a number of other things and it's actually a fairly low density user of space right so and you also have Apartments there where you would anticipate that a significant portion of the customers would already live there so they could just walk down do the residence exactly so I I'm just I'm just trying to yeah the only concern I had was a medical office that may draw from a larger population let's say some to that effect and I didn't think the med spa was so uh uh impactful let's say from a parking standpoint I thought the medical office might be that's just talking about a doctor's office dentist office or a Concentra type place are a dentist office and medical office done by chairs too it's yeah uh well actually square footage we have a higher square footage ratio relative to that than in comparison retail so if it's treated as a medical that's Ultra conservative correct if you're doing is per taking the square footage of a medical facility and using that number you're then you're Ultra conservative in your parking yeah it it tends to require more parking in its peak period but obviously the peak periods could be at different times too so that's where the shared parking discussion becomes that scientific analysis almost as to when those spaces may be in high demand in relationship to the residential units that are there where some people may be away at work compared to when the uh medical office is needing people to come come go I just know that that we we in the Redevelopment plan have a standardized one per 250 square foot requirement for retail so I didn't want that retail number to overburden the parking I'm sorry the office medical office to overburden the parking ratio as you would look at it so that was just one thing I'm just putting out there for us to maybe discuss in in more detail and so the board's aware of some of those conversations um in addition to that um the other question I had was under the principal permitted use act criteria the reason why we originally made it a conditional use was to allow the board the ability to review any future changes to restaurant use and maybe we can arrive at that same place in some way because of the restaurant being a more intensive use than straight retail things of that nature so if a restaurant was to grow into a retail space maybe it required an amended plan of some type I'm trying to keep the purview back to the board because of the difficulty of the sherff parking discussion so if that ratio was to change in some way it requires it to come back to the board so that the professionals get a chance to revie it not just and to give the board as far as their opinion as far as how it's working I I the first thing I thought of is a seafood market restaurant right uh so you have you know a market where people can come to the front shop and turn around and then you also have a restaurant so you have a retail on the front restaurant in the back kind of two independent uses but two highly trafficed uses um so I agree with you that you would want some review as those turn over yeah because you never know what you know might be a t-shirt shop and a restaurant it might be some apparel but I thinking like a seafood shop or um a restaurant and a you know butcher shop or something like that where you're going to draw in two different types of crowds um you might want that that oversight when you're getting into those kinds of uses I was going to say have you ever been to Frankie spuntino in Brooklyn we're like a Cracker Barrel well yeah but Frankie spuntino has oh looks like I hit the I hit it on the head right there it's not a Cracker Barrel but it is like in that concept right where you can walk in that's a better chice but Frank it's not that but they also have a retail olive oil business and takeout pizza business Michael um at least half of this board was not here in 2018 yes even know what the entire uh 1515 is involved um wouldn't it be appropriate at this point to have Max come up and and uh you have any any drawings of here yes we do have do an overview of of 1515 so the new board members and see what it is we're going to have at 1515 that's number one number two I'd like to know what the status is of the round about and when that's going to be um completed and then also um where we stand with the apartments because we we agreed to let 1515 build departments first which was a reversal of what was originally planned um where do we stand on that so I'd like some background for everybody here before we get into the nitty-gritty that Ed was talking about sure yes um yeah Max maybe we can talk about sort of construction and timing first and then we can jump to the renderings that we have we just swear you in as a you swear airm the testimony about to give be the truth yes name and address for the record professional address of the record sure Max Millian Dorne d o r n e address is 32 Mount Kimble Avenue Mar Town New Jersey um good evening thanks for having us appreciate all you guys' time um Mike great to see you again in terms of the dot roundabout the entire force man has been installed um they're going through the testing now dry testing and then wet testing the roundabout itself has also been completed in terms of construction work the retaining walls they're going through final inspections that will not be turned over to doing until building a is completed and we have South District District Drive completed so we don't want cars coming into the roundabout at during South District Drive estimated date for building a turnover will be December of 2024 okay building a which is 262 units it's the building to the east uh it's fully enclosed fully watertight we're going through the exterior shaing now and finishes so that just so some of the people uh know what the roundabout is that I'm talking about okay okay um if you wanted to get into 1515 property today and you get off of 287 you would have to travel West on Route 10 go up to the 202 make a double loop around and travel South on 10 and then turn into the property you would have to do that whether you're going to Delta Dental or the Octagon building or 1515 you have to make that double Loop and and impact on the traffic on Two on Two and 10 which is always busy now um when 1515 was before us we wanted to round about because what people will do now is when they get off of 287 get on to Route 10 westbound um they will make the jerk hand turn on grien way go underneath throughout 10 and then before they enter the property there's a roundabout okay you go into the the back road you around the roundabout and go into the back road and enter 1515 or Delta Dental or the Octagon building from the back you won't have to impact on the intersection of two two and 10 at all um you you're solving we're solving a problem until two2 and 10 somewhat okay so that's why I asked about the roundabout that's necessary you're absolutely correct that was a regional Improvement to the area but again that work is done but we will not be turning it over until building a is complete South District D is complete so that will be that is publicly dedicated so that that area will and I got that R for you so you we could we could get the the free older approval perfect yes you did okay and just for the benefit of the board members who weren't here there are three buildings um we'll refer to them as a b and c but Max do you just want to briefly you described a but sure so moving east to west the first building is 262 Apartments um it is a four-story building there two interior Courtyards uh moving to the Southwest is Building B that includes the parking deck it includes the portion of the 55 plus 49 units and then the remainder of the 498 units are also on Floors 3 four and five uh you have just under 30,000 square ft of inline retail there so all those buildings are encompassed in you know the same frame uh north of that is Building C that's a standalone retail building again just under 30,000 square ft uh if you drive by now there's a stock pile of dirt there but again that's the approximation of where building seal B so a is the apartment building that's currently under construction if you're driving by it it looks like a lot of the exterior is done on it correct and the sort of concrete structure that we're seeing is the parking garage of B parking structure is complete uh Steel was about 40% complete and we started wood framing on the Southeast corner of Building B last week you had some Renditions of these on large boards um for whenever we meet next time could you could you bring those so the board can have a visual of what we just discussed sure we do have uh renderings I have handouts on 11 by 17 that we can share um these are focused primarily on um buildings B andc that sort of retail Corridor so you won't see all of the buildings in here but I I think it gives a good yeah okay I'll go to this thank Youk you have enough I was going to say we have okay we have an interested individual in the a who may very well one more FR Mighty safety has he had one before like a little yeah just a quick overview if you guys would like um first page here to the left this is a view from the uh first floor of the residential above the retail to the right is Building C which is the 27 28,000 ft Standalone retail building in the center there is what they call a wer it is a pedestrian area that allows vehicles to enter um this space will be very activated in terms of landscaping hardscaping it does have the ability to be shut down for public events uh that's something that will definitely be working with the Parks and Recreation Department office the second page from uh standing on the left side of the uh campus with the East the building in the background is building a the four story building that is currently under construction water tyght so this kind of gives you that ground floor feel you know looking out for Building B uh next page is a very similar view a better understanding of how building a compares to that so again building a is a four story building building B is a five story building and the building is a double height retail scal uh the last page this is a rendering looking uh North at bu City uh the two primary restaurants here this does show the proposed um you know covered indoor outdoor space um so these would be our primary restaurant locations you do have a Breezeway in between that separates uh North and South R of just some additional parking but we envision this being the the main for the main Hub of the area I L you right into that didn't [Music] I can I ask a question about the signage uh is that going to be wall mounted or building mounted signage that doesn't you didn't really specify it yes building mounted okay I think maybe the board's okay with that that it should allow for a second building Mountain sign yes not not another Monument or anything nothing on the ground correct I think that was so yeah that that I I think understood where you were going with that but just to make it clear from the from the amendment that's wall Mountain what about the heights of the signage there in terms of so basically what the sence what we've done was we've blocked it out based on certain Mings not knowing what the total you know naming of the building be what tenants are going to come in so all of those will require us to come back for additional approvals up correct if they're amended so what we're hoping is that our tenants will come in and we'll say here's what you're allowed and they'll say yes our signs will fit in that um but what we're proposing here is to amend the number so not the I think we previously had um Heights and lengths and percentages that were permitted um and we hoping to work within that height and within that length and percentage but to be able to add so for example some of the restaurants have their name and then you know a curse of initial that represents their like logo but technically that's a separate sign even though it's a letter so that was not contemplated at the time that we were developing the plans like the concept plans for the Redevelopment plan so we're running into that now where um particularly the two larger restaurant users have a logo in addition to their name and so they would have two wall signs on one side of the building and two wall signs on the other in theory so Mr chairman and each one of those I'm going to count as a separate sign correct that's what we were assuming that each would be a separate sign which is why we would run into variance issues on on all of them and again I think part of the conversation is when we came into this plan we wanted to work within the confines of what was allowed so we created these box out areas now as we we've gotten into lease negotiation some of these tenants have specific branding requirements or requests so trying to modify and accommodate them within the conflict of Z that's really our attemp with this yeah and if it were one user that was asking for it obviously we would apply to the board for that variance but it's essentially across the board for all the restaurant that we've been talking to that that's how they they brand their it's an appropriate request being that you're on Route 10 the visibility the traffic and not wanting to look at a back of house or something that you know you're really trying to create a live work play type of environment okay uh Mr chairman I have a question so I guess it's it's kind of a broad question the first one is I guess so is the goal tonight to approve these five items is that the is that no uh what I would offer to the board is they're making this request we would come back to the board with actually the recommendations after we discuss some of these other percentages of signs things of that nature and come back to you with our recommendations in a written document and you then would look at that written document say yay or nay or make some adjustments we would then use those as recommendations to the governing body for an amendment to the Redevelopment plan so that would be your process and then the governing body would Institute that those changes send it back to this board as one of the cycles of normal amendments for you to review for consistency essentially and then from there the governing body would have a public hearing for a final adoption so I guess my I and and Mike kind of touched on it a little bit and I think we got the 100,000 foot you know 9,000 mph blowby on you know what the project is I have no idea what 1515 is you know I I know from Mr kahill's fine articles in the patch and and things that have been You Know spoken about around town but I don't even know what um voting on here I mean I don't have any problems with any of this stuff but I don't even know what the project is certainly what we're asking is for you to authorize us to prepare that uh recommendations and then I think as Mr D was mentioning a moment ago is to come back in and offer even some exhibits that were provided at the last meeting so you can start to see with that site plan building elevations things of that nature all those details that you may not have seen before yeah like what what originally was improved and then why is it morphing and then you know potentially what do these tenants look like and you know I guess I would want to see those types of details right like what was the original deal and then in addition to that after all the amendments are made to the Redevelopment plan there's an amended site plan that come back to you we get multiple bites at this apple before we actually write anything down in Granite so it this is they're asking us for something I get that I absolutely understand that aspect Ed is going to write it up and they're going to say yes that's what we're asking for I thought there was coffee in Donuts tonight that's rightor he's probably he's probably going to ask Jennifer what she thinks of I will be I'll be discussing this with her all right okay and we'll probably also ask Andrew to look at the parking requirements at that point we didn't feel he needed years tonight for the parking requirements but he will be later on uh to make sure that that what we're doing is consistent with good uh engineering principles uh so you get many bites at this apple understood and I really am very appreciative of Mike for uh bringing out a better way of going about it he's my conary so all right and the unique aspect to this project I just wanted to mention too or this ordinance per se is a Redevelopment plan and a Redevelopment plan for those that may not know can be very specific and its criteria for a specific location and that's a Nuance in the new in the the state law that allows you to do that in order to encourage Redevelopment of project um I just wanted you to point just wanted to point that out for your your knowledge and background and that's why they're here tonight to ask for that amendment I now we need some clarification now you've mentioned the term Redevelopment plan corre and we've been involved in Redevelopment plan not too long ago regarding Pilots course one of the things you need to get a pilot is a Redevelopment plan okay in this case 1515 already has a pilot so this Redevelopment is not to promote a pilot they already have one this amendment to it is not to ask for additional right no okay [Music] can I bring up something loud yet or I can't the thank you uh okay so I remember this plan I think I was here for the second and third amendments to it um and I never liked the idea you could drive on this wo Nerf I believe there was parking on this that that Central Street also and it was going both ways it it's gone both ways it's one it's a oneway traffic Oh I thought the renderings you had for first time around where cars parked on each side and cars gone both ways there may have been but currently and as it's approved it's oneway traffic all right so it's oneway traffic and is there parking on this road yes see on this rendering that you have here you don't have any cars parked on it or we moving at all I like this idea better why should there be any cars in there at all I mean I guess maybe Uber pickups and stuff but you don't have a single car in here my memory was of the original application was that was actually meant for more more for deliveries and setups and things like that but I don't know you I'm pretty sure I remember someone bringing up I this might have been we were still virtual not mistaken we had some concern about these string lights hanging and delivery trucks coming through uh I know that was definitely something was brought up it might even been me no I don't ask question wasn't somebody else um but so I guess what I'm looking at here on these renderings are these outdoor little market spots and little pop-up tents and umbrellas and chairs are all those going to be gone now and then these are taking over for that these outdoor structures uh we'll get into those details in the site plan this does show the structures that were not previously approved as a difference it does still show the structures the large wooden fence that does have uh areas for performances things like that you've got raised areas for seating for outdoor dining you've got backlist uh benches you've got plenty of seating and there those erors as well okay oh sorry goe go a majority of what is on that werf area is staying the this these were designed and intended to show that out permanent outdoor space so it was in a concept phase in order to present this idea of you know what does the board think about permanent outdoor dining and then at the point as Max said when we would have to come back because we would have to come back for amended site plan approval is when we would show all of those details so we would take the plans that are already approved and then superimpose these structures on them so this was intentionally simplified in order to show that outdoor okay so are these going to be closed in uh no it's open outdoor all right so if these are open uh then it's only I guess three season type rooms then unless can you put heaters under there uh that would probably be an anticipation is that legal to do but would a roof that low I don't know I don't know that stuff but okay all right so these are not going to be enclosed I guess I was getting to the road is one way and there is no parking there is is parking as well on both sides oh okay all right thanks oh all right uh Jennifer you look like you have something you want to say I don't know if now now is a good time better later I I mean I have comments on all of them um the the hardest part for zoning is you have to remember that what we don't decide here you're leaving me and me alone to decide um I like the idea of of them approving the permanent outdoor dining because during covid uh I had an incredible responsibility of approving outdoor dining that was extremely unsafe and um but forced to do because it was the only way to keep the restaurants in business um I was extremely uncomfortable day after day approving those when I felt that cars were driving through them in other towns I like the idea of the permanent outdoor dining the way the outdoor dining is interpreted by the zoning department and has been for 30 years is Ed and I spoke about this today it's a maximum of 12 seats so if this doesn't get approved for outdoor dining and you come back to me couple years from now and I'm still here or whoever replaces me it's a Max of 12 seats anything other than that is calculated in the parking and if if you become tight in the sense that you have just enough parking for all the tenants you will not have enough parking for the outdoor dining so it is important I think that the Board address the permanent outdoor dining and figure out the best way that the board approves it instead of leaving it up to me to to calculate because I don't have the luxury as the board does to say well some tenants you know are going to be open in the morning and some are going to have in the evening I'm looking at it as very black and white very black and white square footage it either works or it doesn't so I I'm most of the time have to send people to the to the board so then this going these are all going to be Board of adjustment applications they will not be planning boards so we won't have that discussion so I think these are these are important things that we sit down and discuss while we're here so that we can work it out because it is very difficult as all of these be developed that forces me to figure out okay what did the board exactly want and did we think about all of these things um you know the the you know I'm I'm a little nervous about the medical use I'll be honest um The Med Spa is new it's a brand new concept I've been hearing about the last three years I've had to deny every single one of them and send them to the board even if I thought it was a good concept and it would it's just it's not permitted so it's it's definitely something that this board should look at not only here but in the rest of the town of where we want to start putting this you know and Edge the expert to tell me like where I think the best place to put those but I think Med Spa is new and I think it's definitely something we can work out however medical office scares me to death because I issue all the tenant permits in prony right now and all the new construction and medical is the one use that hurts most property owners because you put in a medical use and you you filled your nice shopping center and then all of a sudden a couple tenants go out of business and your medical use prevents you from putting in any other type of uses because you've used up all your parking on medical so I just want the board to be very careful with the typical medical office because I have um a couple businesses particularly one in Lake hawaa North beverick that he went to this board and got approved for a building for three tenants and he can only fill his space with two tenants because he chose a medical use and he put a restaurant in so the medical and restaurant wipes out all his parking and he has a space that will be vacant forever until one of those uses leaves and there's nothing I can do unless send them to the board so I I do think that those are things that we we need to discuss and talk about and and EDS the you know the best to help us guide so that 10 years from now when I'm trying to figure out the tenants and some new business goes in we don't want it to be vacant we want to be able for them to fill it so it's important that we work this out now definitely thank you Jennifer I want to thank you for those comments I think that's exactly what we and the applicants needed to hear thank you so Ed so at this point what I would offer is for the board to just really decide I guess maybe is depending upon what Ty vote you want to take uh with regard to whether or not you would authorize our office to prepare uh the recommendations for you from these requested amendments I'll make a motion should we have any comments from the public before we do this or is this yes I as well are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this at this time no no all right hearing and saying no this closes the evidentiary portion of this hearing and we will entertain a motion I'll make a motion second all right and uh have our attorney just say the motion is simply to authorize our planner to prepare a formal report regarding the proposed amendments to the Redevelopment plan for 1515 all right nor would you call the role please did each yes D yes McGrath yes mey yes napalitano yes Shaw yes Smith yes stanel yes denmore yes so there you go we've got the ball rolling uh I think it I think the board really would love to have a a fairly I'll call it an executive summary of the previous application that we'd like to have it so that everybody here who was not at the previous hearings can can look and see what it is that we're trying to accomplish here what the town is is going to allow and what you guys are trying to accomplish so sure all right very good nor do we have anything else to uh absolutely nothing absolutely nothing uh all right so do I have a a motion to end tonight's to adjourn motion to adjourn do I have a second second anybody who wants to stay overnight you get sounds like you do I