you're on record okay the meeting of the township of pipany Troy Hills planning board for Monday May 20th 2024 at 7:30 p.m. uh announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act nor would you call the role Please Mr did here Mr diero here Mr May mey yes Mr math present chairman denmore here we also have our board planner miss winter our board engineer Mr kiano and our board attorney miss dley all right if we could stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please uh pledge to the the United States of America the stand Nation indivisible liy and justice for all all right this meeting is open to the general public is there anyone here that wishes to address the board on an on an item that is not on our current docket hearing and seeing none uh we have some re resolutions in our packet and I'd like to have our clerk back from her phone call before we start doing that but let's go through who we got here we have the Floren deor res resolution and we have the onyxx equity uh Hilton Court uh resolutions and I think we have we have sufficient people to do all right do I hear a motion to approve the 23535 Flor and Decor I'll make the motion thank you uh do I have a second second meth all right nor we you call the role please DPO yes math yes dinmore yes all right uh number 23530 onx equities uh do I have a motion Mr chairman Mr I make the motion for resolution to approve application number 23 col 530 onx equities to Hilton code block 202 lot 3.10 amended preliminary and final measure s plan measure soil moving permit to construct a warehouse facility Mr Matthew you willing to Second us I will second nor would you call the RO please yes math yes denore yes all right we move then move on to the one item on our agenda tonight um application number 24 colon 506 20 to 30 ladex urban renewal LLC 20 to 30 ladex X West block 226 Lots 3 and 3.2 uh Mr angino I you see we only have five on our board tonight and I have been informed that it's likely to take a while so that we may find ourselves hearing this over multiple nights let's see where we go Mr chairman they're going to move forward all right well thank you good evening uh Mr chairman members of the board professionals uh in public again my name is John ingino I'm a partner with the law firm of engino Taylor crab business owners for the past 15 years here in uhi we're representing the applicant 20-30 ladex urban renewal LLC uh the applicant is also the owner of the subject site the cing preliminary and major preliminary and major site plan approv preliminary major final site plan approval regarding property currently designated as Lots 3 and 3.2 in Block 226 also known as 20-30 ladex rway West here in the township of PFI detroy Hill the Zoning for the property is set forth in the 2030 ladex Plaza West Redevelopment plan as you know this building has been vacant uh for a couple of years it has no future utility for office last year the ATT Council unanimously declared the area to be in need of Redevelopment and unanimously adopted the Redevelopment plan permitting this project the project consists of the removal of the existing vacant three-story office building and surface parking areas on the site the applicant is proposing a warehousing facility totaling a little over 140,000 Square ft um it will be approximately 45 ft high with 5,000 ft of office 23 loading docks two Drive-In ramps one trash compactor Bay along with 81 uh compliant 81 surface parking spaces including 88 compliant and EV readymade spaces driveway and parking improvements are also proposed the applicant is proposing additional uh site improvements including detention basins signage screening landscaping and the life you will hear testimony tonight in ating that this project will result in an improved environmental condition of the property that will not only benefit this site but it will benefit sites to the south of this property including Lake pfic you'll hear that testimony from our engineer uh as the board knows precip road is a County Road board doesn't have jurisdiction over County Road nevertheless uh we have provided traffic report over here traffic testing uh for the board and public information and we have applied to the uh morrris County planning board for approval um you'll also hear testimony regarding sort of a a reconfiguration of the uh of the of the warehouse facility itself um as we proceed now the applicant is seeking some uh deviations and design waivers which will be U St reports by the uh by the engineer um we'll hear those in a moment I want to point out to the board that uh P trit funeral home which of course is owned and operated by the magro family for decades is located on a paral adjacent to the applicants property block four block 226 and a portion of the part's rear side paring lot actually a pretty significant portion um encroaches upon the applicants property this was raised as a comment in one of the review letters um but the magos and the applicant's predecessor and titled entered into an encroachment agreement dated October 31 1986 and reported in the Morris County Clerk's Office on November 24 1986 instrument number 12917 uh whereby a portion of the T try parking area is permitted to exist on the applicant's property U the applicant is is not proposing we're having an indication that people in the back can't hear oh the microphone work no I can hear that that microphone works is it nor just might not be close enough I don't know if this work the back rows I can hear it that's that's a lot better okay let me um go back to the point about the femal home because I know there's some folks in the back that have an interest in that um I want to point out the board in the public that the part try funeral home which is owned and operated by the dagio family for decades is located on a parcel adjacent to the applicant's property which is lot four block 226 a portion a portion of the funeral home rear inside parking lot encroaches upon the applicant's property now the dagos and the applicant's predecessor entitled entered into an encroachment agreement dated October 31 1986 and recorded in the Morris County Clerk's Office on November 24 1986 instrument number 12917 whereby a portion of the parro parking Area Funeral Home parking area is permitted to exist on the applicant's property I want to enter that encroachment agreement into the record as exhibit A1 this was an issue that was raised by your engineer uh we are not going to disturb uh the parking lot for the park Tri funeral home I want the board to understand that I want the naio family to understand that uh there's going to be no disturbance of that whatsoever so if I can mark this if it's okay and uh enter that into the record and nor I'll I'll do that to you in just a moment okay I also want to point out to the board that the two lots which make up the subject property have never been merged this issue was also set forth in the board of Engineers review letter uh dated uh May 13 20124 and the tax assessor report uh of March 14 2024 amended May 1624 and the applicant will agree as a condition of approval to prepare a deed of consolidation for Lots 3 and 3.2 subject to review and approval by the board attorney and per the tax assessor letter the new lot would be lot 3.03 uh and the address would be eight ladex Plaza that would be a new address for this property um as the board is aware the board engineer requested comment uh in his May 14th report regarding status of approval from Highlands Council uh the applicant met with representatives of the Highlands Council months before this application was filed I was there at the meetings the meeting was productive uh the applicant has submitted its Highlands referral ordinance application to the highlands as required um we're advised that that is still under review um but um we expect that that will be processed and I expect it we'll receive a no interest letter or whatever the equivalent of of that is um now based upon some of the public interest that was evident at the Redevelopment plan phase of this process uh the applicant and its professionals met with some of the joining neighbors including representatives of the Pary Board of Education we also met with the dagos and the Petersons uh first of all we appreciated all their time and we appreciated their thoughtful input um we hope and we believe that we address their concerns as best as we can uh we all the applicant certainly wants to address all reasonable concerns of the public while at the same time repurposing this vacant building in accordance with the Redevelopment plan and getting it back on the tax roles in a productive way for all of Pan's taxpayers um so I don't want to speak for them but I think you know the Board of Education certainly received a detailed briefing on the exact plans that you're going to be seeing here tonight um and uh they seemed uh very appreciative uh and satisfied with with the presentation that was made um so um our primary responsibility tonight obviously is in any uh application is to show uh compliance with the uh underlying zoning in this case the Redevelopment plan and of course the board's role is to ensure that we we do that um we've received several review letters I just want to reference them for the record arh Associates review letter dated April 24th 2024 uh the GPI engineering review letter dated May 13 2024 we have the township s Department memorandum dated March 26 2024 we have Morris County planning board memorandum dated uh April 16th of 2024 uh we have the tax assess memo which I just referenced dated March 14th 2024 and amended May 16th of 2024 and we have the Township Water Department memorandum dated May 16 2024 uh we certainly appreciated Advanced review and receipt of those foregoing reports and in an effort to be efficient the applicants witnesses will endeavor to include issues raised in those reports into their affirmative testimony uh each of our Witnesses will of course uh be available to the poor professionals and public for questions based on their testimony uh one other comment that I made uh which I want to make sure it was was heard and and that is that um the Redevelopment of this site uh you'll hear testimony that the Redevelopment of this site will result in improved environmental condition of the property that will not only benefit this site but also sites to the south of the property including lake pipany and you'll hear that testimony momentarily um Mr chairman I have four Witnesses see how far we get um we have Dan Miola of Langan engineering Environmental Services who will be offered as both the project civil engineer and project landscape architect we have Ben noler uh the project sound uh expert we have Dan deserio of Langan who's our traffic engineer we have Kyle fer of Arco design who is the project architect and we have Rachel ffield of Langan engineering the applicants planner uh so if it's the board pleasure i''d like to proceed with our first witness do you want to do waivers first yeah I I five I had one um comment did you receive the construction report dated May 17th 20124 that was part of our file I did not or if I did I I I don't recall yet have that one sent over it was probably sent believe me I if I don't have it it's my fault it's not yours okay and then could you forward the April 16th 24 Morris County planning board letter I don't think we have that I will do that all right we have some waivers to go through just a few just a couple today um the first one's for Flor plans which have been submitted but they exceed the 8 in 8 ft per inch scale we have no objection to that waiver um for existing and proposed signs we just like to hear some testimony that future signage would comply with the Redevelopment plan um also waiver from the environmental assessment study uh as the proposed improvements are located within the previously developed area we don't object to that and final one is a combined preliminary and final um approval is requested separate sheets are to be submitted um we don't have a issue with that waiver I think on the signage I think on the signage of the intent is to comply with the uh with the plan or your underlying ordinance and we understand that U if we don't then we'd have to come back to the board all right any questions about the waivers is there a motion to approve the waiver waivers in the arh report of 424 motion math second d uh all in favor say I I I any opposed all right sir all right Mr chairman at this time I'd like to call up Mr damiola laging microphone is working and Mr mola I guess you should you raise your right hand do you swear affirm that the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record Daniel Miola m i o l a Langan engineering 300 Kimble Drive uh parcion New Jersey 07054 and uh Mr M I know you've been before this board before correct yes I have I uh but just for the benefit of the public uh and the board but uh just can you just briefly describe your professional background your educational background and uh any licenses that you hold sure uh licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey uh my license is in good standing I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Villanova University a master's degree also in civil engineering from stev Institute of Technology uh and I've been accepted by uh multiple boards throughout the state including this one as a for civil engineering and for landscaping uh no I'm not a registered landscape architect but I can speak to it uh the design that was put forth on the application today okay so Mr chairman we would ask that you accept Mr mola as an expert in the area of civil engineering and he'll be describing the Landscaping uh plan all right any questions on the uh on the qualifications hearing and seeing none counselor okay thank you Mr Mi please describe the civil engineering aspects of the project for the board yes um thank you just uh to to provide a brief outline for my my testimony this evening I'm going to start by describing the site uh the site location then I'm going to get into the the site plan that's proposed um after explaining some of the the vital statistics the major components of the site plan I'm going to go into the site orientation I know there are questions as to why the loading dock uh part of the building is located on the western uh East Lake School side of the site uh so I'm intent on addressing that uh right after I I address the the major components of the site plan um then I'm going to describe the landscaping and buffers surrounding the site uh and then storm water management uh and some utility and and Landscaping testimony to close um so with that uh I'll start by uh speaking to my first exhibit which is uh exhibit depicting an aerial of the site it is uh Mar that is A2 sure we Mark that is A2 A2 yes A2 just shows a a an aerial of the existing site the property address is 20-30 L ladex Plaza West uh which is located the southwestern corner of the intersection of parney Road uh True North is is pointing to the left uh so when I refer to the east side of the site is actually the plan top side the south is to the to the right and the West is to the bottom and and the date of this exhibit is it today's date it's dated May 17th 2024 thank you uh so just to explain uh the property surrounding the site to to the east is parney Road uh to the north is Governor Livingston Park to the West East Lake Elementary School and to the South we have the part try funeral home as well as uh some other Residential Properties that front on Allentown Road uh the property is uh as indicated by our attorney Mr engino in the ladex plaza West Redevelopment plan area it's about 10 1 12 acres currently occupied by about a 60,000 ft or square foot three-story office building and Associated parking and utilities uh next I'm going to describe the proposed site uh in order to do that I'm going to refer to this site plan rendering on the right side that I'm going to label a-3 uh and that is just a a plan rendering of the site plan that's proposed for this application um first the the building sorry I'm sorry um this is prepared by your office and dated what is is dated 20 May of 2024 thank you the warehouse footprint is proposed to be approximately 140,000 Square ft 5,000 of which is proposed to be office space and the the balance uh about 135,000 Square ft is proposed to be warehouse space uh in addition there are 81 total parking spaces proposed four of which will be ad A Accessible uh that is proposed on the east side of the property the part of the property that fronts parcion road on the west side of the property there are there are 20 loading dock positions as well as two drive- IND doors and a compactor um there are multiple storm water management basins that are indicated in the the dark green color on this exhibit including two on the west side of the site which is the low part of the property and one above ground bio retention Basin on the north side of the site uh along ladex Plaza Road uh it should be noted that landex Plaza Road is a is a private road uh and is technically part of the part of this property uh just a couple comments on the sidewalk that's proposed uh a sidewalk is proposed along the the front of the building the part of the building that faces Pary Road where the car parking is proposed that sidewalk is then uh proposed to extend North to ladex Plaza and then turn to the East and ultimately connect to the sidewalk system that exists at the landex Plaza parci Road intersection uh the Redevelopment plan does require sidewalk uh along the frontages of the site both for parsipany road as well as lodex Plaza Drive uh that is not proposed in our plan mainly because the uh the adjacent sites to the East and the west of the site or um to the to the south of the site there's no sidewalk across those properties uh and therefore this the this additional sidewalk would not connect to any other existing sidewalk so we felt it was better to to bring it to the intersection where there is a a developed pedestrian network uh in specific Pary Road does have a sidewalk on the the east side of it uh and so by by connecting to that intersection system uh we will be able to to bring the pedestrians to the east side of parcion road uh but that is one of the deviations that was was brought up or that that's proposed [Music] in addition uh we are proposing uh a 24t access drive around the site uh that drive does increase to 30 ft uh for the aisle that or the driveway that accesses the truck cord on the west side of the property that 30 ft is a a deviation another another deviation required uh for the project that uh allows for a Maxum maximum of 24 ft of driveway width we need the extra 30t or the extra 6t to get to a total of 30t uh because 30 ft is the standard Road width for an internal truck driveway uh and so for that reason we are we're proposing that uh deviation uh one last deviation I'd like to cover is with respect to the building setback off parcion road which is required to be 100 ft uh and 100t is provided for the north side of this the frontage for the the south side of the frontage uh due to the the a a curve or or a bow in the the RightWay line of parcion Road uh that 100 feet gets reduced to a maximum of 90 feet uh and so that that setback uh deviation is also required in connection with the layout um so next I'd like to address the sight's orientation uh with the car parking along Pary Road and the Loach area on the west side of the property um the real intent of that the real reason for that was to work with the grades across this site this site has a significant grade grade change as you work your way from parcion road which is high to the West uh which is low that grade change uh is about 35 to 40 ft um when you lay out a warehouse site you have uh a few elevations that you really need to respect uh the main one being the elevation of the truck Court loading docks the loading dock doors uh the external grade at those doors need to be 4 feet lower so that the bed of the the truck can unload directly onto the slab and so that's why you see the dock doors are always elevated about 4T above the grade uh and so the the the way to lay out Warehouse sites such as this one is to really Orient the truck cord on the low side of the property uh we looked at uh for this site orienting the loading docks uh along parney Road and and essentially flipping this building layout and what we found with is due to the high ations uh at Old Paran Road and Paran Road in ladex Plaza you could only ramp down so far before you had to uh set the grade of your floor and so we had we ended up with a a floor grade of 8 ft higher than what we have here uh which would have required a significant amount of additional fill import uh on the order of 100,000 additional yards of material in addition to that because this gets flipped the the building itself is now 8 ft higher and is significantly closer to the school uh and so the while the this uh this building which is approximately 45 ft High uh would be uh on the order of 100t closer to the school so we' need a lot more fill building would be about 8 ft higher and it would be about 100 ft closer to the school uh so once we assessed that we spun the building around and looked at the configuration that we ended up proposing as part of the application uh and what I'm going to get into is with the retaining walls proposed along the western side of the property the school side of the property as well as an acoustic barrier uh we think that this is a much better layout uh for our neighbor uh the East Lake Elementary School and so [Music] now I'll explain some of the uh components of that buffer the buffer itself is 60 ft wide about half of which is uh several rows of of landscaping uh we have in this 30 ft of landscaping multiple rows of of evergreen trees shade trees and evergreen shrubs after the proposed Landscaping because this is the low side of the site we need storm water management uh and so you'll see these darker green areas are bior retention basins which are going to provide both water quantity and water quality management uh these basins because we uh we needed to get a certain volume of storm water detention or storage the the west side of this Basin has a a 4ot high retaining wall and then the east side of this Basin has about a 15 ft High retaining wall uh again to to transition grade uh given the 35t grade trange across the property uh there are significant retaining walls along this Western and Eastern parts of the property uh that's really the the only way to grade a a flat sight when you have such a significant grade change is to to have these these retaining walls to support a flat pad or development pad uh after the 15t foot high retaining wall we have another 15 ft High acoustic barrier or sound wall uh the these walls themselves require variances or I'm sorry deviations given they are they exceed six foot 6 feet in height um the ordinance uh allows for a maximum of 6t retaining wall height in the side and rear yards as well as a maximum of 4T high in the front yard uh and we are 15 ft really goes up to 16 ft in the side and rear yards and in the front yard we also have an 8ft high wall along Paran Road the walls themselves the retaining walls will be a modular block wall uh which I'm going to show you on my next exhibit which I'll mark As are we up to A4 A4 is an exhibit that depicts the walls the the retaining walls are going to be this versalock or modular block style wall which are shown on in the photos at the the bottom half of the rendering the acoustic barrier the the sound wall uh will be an eost Stone style wall that is depicted in the two photos at the top of this rendering um and and what is the date of that exhibit that is dated May 20th 2024 thank you and now I'm going to um speak to this next exhibit uh which shows uh what these walls provide when you look at the sight line of this building from the school to that I'm going to mark this a five this is called section View and it's dated May 14th 2024 uh we took uh two lines two sight line sections uh from the East Lake Elementary School um both of which show uh on this profile section BB as well as this profile section CC uh so the at at I level which is about 5 1/2 ft above grade starting there at the school uh again after uh assuming you can see through the existing vegetation uh as well as the proposed vegetation you can see our our retaining wall at the Basin as as well as the acoustic barrier on top of that wall uh which is as you can see from the photo a solid wall you won't be able to see through it uh your line of sight is such that uh you will not be able to see this building uh where the loading docks are proposed now the building does bump back in at the corners uh and my guess is you'll you'll be able to see maybe the top little bit of that peeking out over the wall but for the middle portion uh of this side of the building which is where all the docks are proposed where the trucking is proposed you won't be able to see any of the trucking because those are only 14 ft high and you really won't be able to see uh the middle portion of this building even though it's uh about 50 ft High I guess is our our proposed height um so we we do believe that this is a better design uh then if we were to rotate this building push it closer to the school and have to prop it up higher uh we think that that would be you know not only are you bucking grade uh but you are you're you're proposing a a pretty large building pretty close to the school lot line uh and again we think with the the buffering as well as the proposed acoustic barrier providing as both a noise attenuation as well as a visual screen uh that this is a a better better design for uh for our neighbor as well as for us and if I may um Mr C um was there we we had a meeting with the Board of Education uh on this exact design showed them these exact plans I don't recall the exact date but it was a couple of months ago uh we met with the board president many representatives of the administration for about 2 and 1 half hours or so and went through this in detail with Mr Cot and with Mr Mueller who you're going to hear from in a moment uh and they uh Express support uh for what was being proposed um uh in the first instance not just as an alternative but but this is they express support for it so I just wanted to make the board aware of that Mr Cod unfortunately couldn't be here tonight but I wanted to make that representation to the [Music] board thank you um next I'll go into some other components of the site plan uh we did perform several truck turns and maneuvering plans to depict how an emergency vehicle would access the site and confirm that it can uh the the driveways are adequately sized to accommodate those Maneuvers as well as the maneuvers of the tractor trailers uh that are proposed to access the building uh there is a comment from the board engineering regarding uh the accessibility of parney Road landex closa intersection for a tractor trailer and we do believe with a a slight curb modification uh that we can accommodate that truck turn as well um with respect to storm water management uh we do have a a a robust design not only the three bio retention basins that are shown in dark green on this exhibit which are above ground Basin providing both quantity and quality management we also have an underground system below the truck Hort that consists of 36 in pipe four four rows of them each row being 150 ft long uh and in addition to that we have two porest pavement systems in the car parking lot uh the porest pavement systems in the car parking lot and the underground infiltration system uh are also designed to provide quantity quality and groundwater recharge uh for this site uh I will add that the existing site uh the existing office and its Associated parking lot does have a a basin uh one one Basin along the western side of the property but that was that was all from what I could tell and I could not see any uh additional storm water management whether it's additional quantity additional quality measures or uh groundwater recharge measures uh and I'll add that um the state recently changed their stor order management regulations to become much more stringent uh both looking at current rainfall data as well as projected rainfall data from the year 2100 uh and our storm waterer facilities uh are sized for that larger storm event that's projected in the year 2100 so we're fully complying with both state and local regulations uh with respect to the storm water design in addition uh just a few comments on utilities uh we are developed off this site so the site does have power gas uh electric and water uh water however uh the pressure uh based on the hydrant flow test we received from the public works department uh is not adequate uh for a fire suppression design uh of the these modern warehouses uh and so we will need to supplement the volume of water required for this Warehouse with a water tank uh that water tank has not been shown on our plans as this hydren flow test data is uh was became available to us uh basically today uh but based on our our sprinkler subcontractor's review uh that uh existing flow and pressure at the street is uh not going to be adequate so we're going to need to supplement it with a water tank and Associated Pump House the water tank will be approximately 30 ft in diameter and and the pump house will be about 20 ft by 20 ft in size and we are expecting that that will be proposed off the Northeast corner of the building in this landscape area uh and so uh we would we would show that and the engineering for that as part of a a subsequent submittal U as part of probably resolution compliance uh if this uh project were to be approved Landscaping uh I explained uh how we were treating the buffer on in the west uh all the Landscaping propos is indicated on this bual and exhibit or I'm sorry the site rendering on exhibit A3 uh that includes really focusing the Landscaping along the buffers of the property both the the west side that faces East Lake School and the east side that faces parcion Road uh we also have buffer planting surrounding the building as well as the the southern part of the site in total 147 trees are proposed again most of which are focused along the buffers uh we do require one variance uh from the re or one deviation from the Redevelopment plan that requires one tree within the parking lot for each 25 parking spaces given we have 81 that equals four trees and we only have um one tree proposed uh so that's a a requested deviation we we focused instead the Landscaping uh really in the buffer of parcion Road uh I suppose we we uh we could probably add one at the end caps of the um the parking rows but again the the intent of this landscaping design was really to to focus along the street Frontage part of the site uh in terms of lighting we're proposing uh both pole and wall mounted fixtures 25 ft is our fixture mounting height uh some of the those amount of fixtures will have backlight control to address glare requirements of the Redevelopment plan and of the ordinance um and so uh just a couple other comments regarding outside agencies uh we have uh I I believe approval from Mars County with a conditions that we will uh agree to address uh we do not have soil conserv ation approval but uh we'll obtain that as a condition of approval as well as the Pary Troy Hills uh local Water and Sewer permits uh and as our our attorney Mr engino mentioned uh we are pursuing a letter of no interest from the highlands commission uh from a d perspective we have uh an Loi application pending that confirms the location of the wetlands there is a wetland on the south side of the site in the farest area that's being left undisturbed as well as another small pocket Wetland uh that is actually located on the on the schools property the buffer of which extends onto our property uh and so we we do expect to obtain that Loi uh in the coming weeks I'm also in receipt of uh board engineer and board planning letters uh and can agree to accommodate those comments um after the hearing so the Morris County planning board has sent a letter dated April 16 of 2024 this has some of my notes on it I apologize nor I didn't realize you didn't have it but I'll forward it to you uh after tonight's meeting um does not indicate that there is approval but it indicates uh that the County planning board was looking for some requirements I'd like to go through those with you sure um first of all curbing uh full height curb to be extended along the entire Frontage of pory road again pory road is a county road is that correct that's correct and we are willing to and that's something is going to do right yes and we're going to show the concrete curb detail correct yes and uh the County planning board is looking uh for the applicant to install a guard rail along porci Road Frontage in the areas of of the proposed on-site retaining wall can you point that out to the board where that is yes uh the on-site retaining wall is is along these row of parking spaces to the to the east of the parking spaces uh and so we will be providing fall protection for all retaining walls in the form of a fence as well as uh a guide rail along parcion Road uh in accordance with that County comment um there were a couple other typos here I want to just make sure I hit all of the substantive uh comments I think that was that was it uh in terms of substantive comments from from the board so we'll comply with those the rest there couple of typos and things of that nature um can you just elaborate a little more on storm water and specifically how this property will be improved from an environmental standpoint under its current condition uh how the proposed condition will result in an improved environmental condition and what that means especially with regard to lake pcip lake pipany uh is south of this property um and um I I think we want to understand what what impact uh this property has on Lake pipany today and what that impact will be after this project is designed sure um so uh when you look at at storm water quality um roof runoff is considered clean uh there's no hydrocarbons from from the tires uh there's no grit or sediment or debris uh and so roof runoff uh in accordance with the rules doesn't need to be treated uh but pavement runoff is what the state and local requirements require that we provide storm water management for in in the form of water quality what they call treatment or total suspended solids removal uh and so that's that's grit and sand and uh you know well but but today you're saying that in the current condition you have a parking lot so we we have a a whole lot of asphalt out there today uh with a a smallish building uh but hundreds of of of car parking spaces aisles driveways uh and no water quantity or water quality management uh when we looked at this site plan uh we are providing one two three above ground basins one below ground infiltration Basin and two pervious pavement systems all of which uh will require will provide that that total suspended SI treatment for water quality so every single storm water management uh facility that's proposed here is proposed uh in accordance with the New Jersey rules to provide that water quality management of and treatment of the runoff before it's discharged off the site and and right now that's not the case correct um and this is how the Redevelopment of sites can actually Prov environmental benefit correct yes uh this is a a a large Improvement uh in terms of storm water quality than what exists on the site today and will be a a benefit uh really to the overall Watershed that includes Lake parsipany okay um Mr chairman I don't have any further questions of Mr Miola I I don't know whether you want to go through him to go through the engineers comments real quick we we've been through them internally we can do that or um you agree to make the particularly with the stone water management and the soil testing uh the comments that for the plan changes we requested you're that's a condition as a condition of approval you agree to make those changes yes sir I I have a few questions but I just wanted to get on the record that they'll address the comments that we have in the letter um okay but just as far as questions um mostly on the walls and uh before that but thank you for uh the acknowledgement uh you will make some adjustments to the curb line at Pary road is that that is that what I heard that's correct and then that that is a County Road and you'll coordinate with Morris County for those uh that those curve adjustments okay um walls I got a few questions on the walls obviously there's tons of walls on this site um I did notice and you may have covered it in testimony if I missed it I apologize uh the Wall height approximately 15 ft in the front yard um I noticed that the the the grading the parking lot was sloped uh away from the building um U to to to the East and not to the West um any consideration on regrading that that parking lot U you'll probably pick up a couple feet of of grade and and lesing that wall height so we we will agree to look into that um and you're right uh we thought by you know after after looking at your comment looking at the plan that you could save one or two feet off the wall height so we can look into that um also um again this is more of a detailing thing you may need to adjust the type of wall you're proposing this is my comment 16 about uh the walls um near the existing uh funeral poers uh disting parking there so that is a a cut wall and and you are right there's not a lot of room for uh geogrid behind that wall and so we're going to have to uh do a different wall design than a typical modular block uh that has a geogrid reinforcement um and so that will be you know have to be designed by a structural engineer and submitted as part of a a building permit right and we don't need the building the structural Accounts at the planning board that get that's part of the building department review but I ask that you update that just to give the u u to show uh generically what the other type of wall you're using and it's not a geogrid wall okay and then um the guide rail comments at the top of the walls you commented on that at least in the county right away but also at the other locations and uh I think that was it on the wall and of of of uh Forest Landscaping um I think it was comment 25 um you'll probably be disturbing the trees in the Pary Road right away at least the root structure with the escavation of the walls uh we asked it's in the letter that you coordinate with the township Forester for any tree replacement in the right away that if if those tree roots do get compromised which they likely will uh have the discussion with the Forester um on those trees uh yes we can comply with that comment we we'll do that um and did you cover this um the the Basin to the north um is that considered a dam You' need a permit for that one that would be a a class 4 Dam so technically permit by rule but it would need to be designed uh with the the required Spillway uh in accordance with the dam safety Provisions that rosion control usually looks at when we submit to them so we will just make those notes or or changes on the plan uh for your resubmission yes understood um um that was most of the my my major comments Christine did you have any uh questions of this um you address most of the comments in my letter so thank you uh as far as the water tank goes where were you thinking of putting that uh really our our our water connection and and hot box is is really located in this landscape area to the east of the the car parking lot driveway okay uh and so there's a significant uh you know significant room there to to accommodate this tank and an accessory pump house do you think you can get 40 ft from the property line there um is that's that's the requirement for um an accessory structure so might need to figure that out okay prior approval I guess if um if we need a if we need a variance or a deviation we we'll have to come back for that uh this is you know news I received this afternoon uh there are other potential locations for further in Board of the site uh if we can if we can avoid that deviation we probably will try to to locate it uh with that setback in mind okay what are the typical height of a water tank uh it won't be any higher than the building but uh in in my experience they've been 30 35 ft High that's it right now members of the board have any questions on this testimony Mr meth I have a couple but if someone else has go first I don't see any other volunteers okay um this one might be for Christine and Andrew I I understand the walls are up to 17 ft High correct yes okay I mean don't we have a provision that you're supposed to Terrace walls if we have if they're more than 6 feet high yes I mean that's should he's asking for for the deviation okay understood all right so basically um I'm just wanted to double check that applies to the Redevelopment Zone I doesn't think we didn't we didn't leave it out we didn't exclude it in the Redevelopment Zone do we I don't believe so but I will double check okay so is there any technical way Fe is it technically feasible to Terrace any of the walls Mr mola uh not with this site plan uh you know as I explained given that grade change across the property with the way we need to to Really flatten a development pad to accommodate all that grade change um with this site plan that uh has been engineered these walls cannot be Terrace there's there's not the the horizontal room to do that okay all right now getting to the sidewalk you indicated that you're not providing sidewalk um despite the fact it's Redevelopment plan is there a is it technically infeasible to put sidewalk along pany road if I if I may just push back on that a little bit um the Redevelopment plan on that point which is actually section 8.2 says that pony road is a County Road under the C under the jurisdiction of Morris County subject to County approvals if where required sidewalks are mandatory along precipi road so it's when you read the Redevelopment plan it punts to the county and says that if sidewalk so I we look we've we're looking at it as a deviation we want to be respectful this is a a County Road it's a County Road Network and um my my reading of the Redevelopment plan there is that it defers to the county it says that if the county says so then it's mandatory okay my understanding is Morris County defers sidewalks to the municipalities meaning it's not a county issue of a sidewalk my understanding is the county um act and I'm not a legal expert um only applies in the roadway not the sides so that Morris County to requires if there's a sidewalk that the municipality take ownership of that I'm just reading from the Redevelopment plan it says precip road is a County Road under the jurisdiction of moris County it says subject to County approvals if and where required County approvals sidewalks are mandatory so we did receive the letter from moris County there is no reference to no desire expressed by Morris County for sidewalks on on this side of precipi road I mean there is a sidewalk obviously on the other side of precipi road and there's a a road a pedestrian Network and Crossing to do that um Mr M can you discuss some of the Practical issues with this sidewalk potentially to Nowhere particularly as it may impact part our funeral home because it starts to get a little dicey once you start to go down Preity Road even if you were you know in the future to think about extending sidewalks that's going to impact uh some properties including the funeral home and it just when we looked at it it it really was the classic sidewalk to Nowhere can you just discuss that a little bit uh yes as you indicated the the the funeral home does not have sidewalk across its Frontage uh and across the front its Frontage it does have two uh fairly large with driveways uh with this with this Center Island um so while uh you know I think the Practical challenge here is is you're bringing you're you're inviting folks to walk to that that point where the funeral home property starts uh but then there's no no continuing sidewalk whereas on the east side of parney road there's a a nice sidewalk system crosswalks across each driveway that goes to Allentown Road uh and that that signal and intersection there um so so really practically like you would indicate it's a sidewalk to to nowhere and it's also just inviting pedestrians uh to a point where you know the sidewalk is going to going to end the sidewalk to nowhere comment if we keep following that we will never have sidewalks you have to start somewhere and and and every time we say okay we're not going to build it because there's nothing on either end well something develops there well they're not going to build it because there's nothing on the other end and it goes on forever and eventually the township has to pay for building sidewalks because the sidewalk to Nowhere keeps winning every time it comes before them what of adjustment on the planning board that's a that's an issue I that's a fair point that's a fair point but here again there is a sidewalk Network right on the other side of the street and given I think we all know the port Roy funeral home um if you were I mean I don't know how you would put sidewalks there now if you continue North you're walking over the bridge if you continue South you're walking towards the funeral home and an animal hospital and gas station I guess not much else right so in this case I guess it wouldn't make any difference but I I just don't like that argument all the time yeah no I appreciate that and I didn't mean to to just make that AR argument in the abstract we we took a the professional team took a look at this and again given the fact that there is a sidewalk Network on the other side of the street and given the nature of the businesses um okay you know that's that's where we looked at we didn't want to be disrupted to you no I'm not done thank you well okay I've also been to events more than I wish I had to at the park Troy Funeral Home occasionally when there is someone when there's not sufficient parking there people actually park at ladex and walk over for that reason alone I think sidewalk is warranted here because it's the safer place to to walk along that area and I do believe that our master plan calls for sidewalk on both sides of pany road yeah I I'm not um I do do not believe the fact that one existing property not being not shall we say being able to facilitate sidewalk is enough to not put sidewalk in I I guess I'll ask you as a professional engineer Mr mola if there is a pedestrian walking along parci road on the on your property side of the road are they safer on the road or on a sidewalk can you repeat that question I I want I just want to think about that a little if there happens to be a pedestrian walking on prity road on the on your on the uh on the I guess western side of pcip road the side with your property would they be safer on the roadway or on a sidewalk well they're not safer if they're walking in the middle of the road uh they're definitely safer if they're they're walking uh you know where on the high side or off the cartway where the where there's curving and Landscaping and things like that that separate them from vehicular traffic okay thank you Michael going to wait for the sound engineer but since uh you've Justified orienting the building that way I voice my objections now we had another Warehouse go up in Mazda Brook and those trucks backing up with the beeping sound all hours of the night when people are trying to sleep is going to affect I don't care how how that pretty that wall is that you're building over there it's going going to affect people trying to sleep and during the day it's going to affect the school um if that building would rotated the weight we talked about it and we talked about this at length uh at on the town council at length hours and if if the truck terminals were on parci road there would be zero sound to the school and to the residents in East Lake zero sound by by orienting it that way you're going to get sound down there in the middle of the night with those trucks backing up and beeping that is i' I've been on a planed board for 26 years and my and my primary goal in 26 years has been to protect the quality of life of the residents and that plan doesn't do it and I'll argue with the sun engineer when he gets up there too I was going to wait for him but I just want you to know you oriented that way I I don't buy the justification unfortunately you weren't there when Our Town Council was talking about this during a Redevelopment process Mr mey Mr chairman in addition to what Mr deero just said what about diesel fumes emanating from these trucks and going down to the scho area would you comment on that please yeah I'm not a I'm not an expert on on air quality testifying to that um I I I don't know however we are we are converting this from several hundred par parking spaces uh to to a building that has 20 loading docks um so I have not done the study on on a pre versus post uh you know I would suggest that that is an issue that should be addressed well again this is this property is zoned for this use uh so um you know I mean there's going to be trucks this number of trucks pulling in and out anyway on the site we're not asking for any relief in that regard can you give us an estimate as to how many feet those docks are from the eastern part of the school yes they're they're significantly higher uh if you bear with me I can open the grading plan and and tell you by how much those loading docks are at elevation 324 and the schools at about 34 so that would be uh a difference in about 20 ft and there's also a grade impacting that as well is there uh yes as well as uh you know the vegetation we're planning the vegetation that exists on the school side of the of the lot line there right thank you other members of the board questions if if the the guard rail on pipany Boulevard uh to build that in there is is that something that would make it difficult to put in a sidewalk or is that irrelevant to the sidewalk the guard rail will take up room uh there are also Street trees um that exist along parney road that would have to be uh accommodated um so yeah so all these all these things take up room uh you know I hadn't looked at it in detail um as far as how much room and if you could sneak a sidewalk by it all uh I mean if if we're going to put in a guard rail and we're going to keep some buffering is there adequate room for a proper sidewalk Mr chairman we we'll take a look at that I I think that's a that's a good question we we did look at the the street trees there's not a lot of room out there today candidly as it exists uh with the with the trees so again we that we didn't get that comment from the county we'll take a look at that to see um you know what what can actually be accommodated out there and I'm just going to try not to ask you to try to put two objects in the same space at the same time uh unless of course it does fit all right any other members of the board have any more questions on this Mr dich yeah I don't have any new question but I just want to kind of second the um two issues have been raised one in the sidewalk we did have another um uh development like that on silen way I think and we were able to get you know um we discussed that and we were we did actually agree to have sidewalk on on that property even though that appeared like it was going nowhere type of situation but I think that I think to Mr deo's point we have to start somewhere and I think sidewalk probably makes sense here similarly I have concerns with the um the um noise pollution uh coming out of those trucks in and out so I think we'll wait for the next testimony or who somebody's going to talk more about that but I do have definitely a concerns um from that aspect than all right very good all right no other questions from the board Christine do you have a in response to Mr me's question about the tearing um there's nothing in the Redevelopment plan that would exempt them from that so that would be another deviation okay thank you all right at this time we are actually going to open up to the public for questions questions only on this testimony at this time please there'll be time for statements or opinions later this is the time to ask questions to get information from this testimony from this individual at this time please come forward identify yourself and uh Mr engino if you could uh hi Julia Peterson 25 Old pany Road can you speak to the buffering on the north side of the property sure um the the north side of the property uh is actually on the other side of landex plaza West right uh so landex Plaza for this stretch is is owned by this this app this owner uh and so what what exists is the roadway itself there is a a a buffer on the north side of that road uh which consists of you know some some streetcape trees uh and then there's on our side of land xos drive or the the the South Side um a basin with Associated landscaping around it uh as well as um just a landscape buffer that separates the building from the road so there's going to be people in the back can't hear very well on the uh the microphone sorry is there a is there any landscape buffing on this part of the site yes we have uh we have trees 1 two 3 h four five 6 7 8 n uh as well as these smaller symbols which represent uh shrubs grasses public is having difficulty seeing where you're pointing and things like that so it's my fault I'm just trying to think of how we might be able to place so that there's a bit better I can spin the board to the public if me I know what it looks like you know what it looks like then yes make it a little bit more visible to the so we're talking about the the north side of the the property uh that includes existing land X drive as well as as well as this buffer can will all of the trees that exist now be cut down uh on the south side of landex pla West yes yes aside from you know what you see here to the and what impact do you anticipate on the west side of the mature trees that are along that line the west down east lake side there are mature trees so aside on East like yeah aside from the trees that are that are part of the the landscape buffer associated with this wetland uh which you can you can see this rendering shows we're we're keeping the rest of the vegetation from the lot line uh on the west side of the property will be removed and the wall or the burm is not going to affect the root system of those mature trees that are between that and East Lake as as you would project it the I'm talking about this set of trees okay okay okay I I know that's not necessarily within your purview but well we are we're proposing a really a a fill slope here uh so we're not we're not cutting from the property line we're we're filling yeah you're putting more dirt on top of those root systems that's what I'm trying to establish okay all right and where is the location of the pump house at this point um well at this point uh I would guess it's going to go uh probably off the North End of the site where we do have enough room to accommodate uh this tank and an Associated pump house okay now the we're talking about ladex Plaza Road which was constructed well no you're aware it was constructed as a driveway uh it being a a private road that I would have figured as public then yes that makes sense I mean it didn't re to your knowledge it didn't receive the treatment that you would normally put on a road that was going to handle trucks I I would uh yes I and and you don't have a plan to rebuild that road to carry the truck traffic uh yes we've uh that that was in a comment uh letter and I believe we were we were willing to uh Mill and pave X Plaza Drive so there was a well all right repave not re we're milling and Paving it as well as uh you know which is you know grinding Down 2 in and then putting fresh 2 Ines of asphalt on top of it and we were also going to replace the the drainage Inlet great and castings okay now at the last you mentioned something about a dam where was the dam um so technically a a a Dam uh is classified in New Jersey when the the elevation of the the top of the embankment of these basins and is 15t higher than the elevation of the the outfall uh and because of such a great change across this site with where all the runoff ultimately outfalls uh which is really an an existing storm system already um that elevation that distance exceeds the the 15 ft and therefore this uh Dam class considered a dam is yes thank you very much sure other members of the public if you could identify yourself and Bill senier 157 Allentown Road Lake par sippy resident you spoke about some sorry I'm sorry could you state your name and address again sure Bill senier 157 allent toown Road Pary thank you welcome you spoke about three large I think 150 ft long pipes through here for drainage yes yes 3ot diameter I think they're four rows and you talked about the bio retention basins that's correct where's all this tying into it this all ties into an existing manhole which goes into East Lakes parking lot into it's Lake paron you don't need to get the map I know yes been there done that so questions for you will there be fuel stored on the property uh no that's not proposed okay uh I mean in the form of a underground or above ground tank I assume yes uh no that's not part of our site plan okay um what if there's a fuel spill from one of the trucks on the parking lot how are your the the bio retention Bas going to handle that because ultimately that's going into Lake parcion yes well um as part of uh all of these sites operation uh controls they have a spill prevention and spill containment system uh that they will Implement on any on any spill uh and so that would include putting drainage shocks on the inlets uh it would hay bells and the like as well as um you know cleaning up the mess uh and so that that would be implemented as part of really the operations and maintenance of of any site any new site like corre okay um maybe you're not the guy to ask the basins they'll be properly maintained in accordance with the law and blah blah blah and in the event that you know like are these if these are not maintained and something happens I I don't know whether you're the right person to ask that question so there's what's called a a storm water pollution prevention plan uh and a a storm water operations and maintenance manual that as part of this development uh that manual needs to be recorded with the deed so that not only this owner but all future owners uh when they buy this site are also buying that document and and the responsibilities that come with it uh which all speak to the the operations and maintenance of the the storm waterer facilities uh so that's another standard requirement uh that that now is is comes with velopment sites like this okay and then you already touched on the noise sound on the road going up too because that's leaving the complex and you know you're going to have trucks going up and down the hill jake brakes which going to really annoy that but the lady that you just spoke with I'm sure but as far as drainage you guys have this under control because we already have enough problems with stuff from the state coming into Lake Paran the township Waters coming into Lake Paran so I just want to make sure that as we add to that overburden system that you're maintaining the the new standards yes thank you other members of the public have questions on this witness on this testimony and and Mr chairman with we didn't we didn't go through Mr kiano's report uh storm water management report addresses a lot of these items uh numbers 31 through 37 and the applicant degrees is conditions of approval to comply with all of those and there's discussion in here about the storm water manual inspections maintenance records Etc and the applicant will comply with all of those requirements as conditions of approval very good if you could uh uh Nick homc from 269 Avenue in uh no Lake Iowa um you said you were had a master's in uh civic engineering civil civil engineer civil yes sir excuse me um are you familiar with the policy standards for warehousing in the New Jersey Highlands region at 28 Pages released September the 28th 2023 uh I haven't read that uh cover to cover no you haven't read it no have you uh read are you familiar with the New Jersey state Planning Commission distribution of warehousing um and goods movements and guidelines policies adopted September the 7th 2022 so uh again while I'm familiar with these documents I have not read them cover to cover haven't read them so if I asked you if you would think outright that this is an inappropriate location for such a warehouse would you agree well the the Highland commission objection the location the decision of the use of a warehouse at this location is is not before the board um that was a legislative determination that was made uh by the government to the mic please I'm trying to find a microphone work work all right the the question regard was regarding the appropriateness of a warehouse use at this site um I'm objecting to the question because the question of whether or not this is an appropriate uh site for the use of a warehouse is not a question for the planning board that's a a question that was determined legislatively by the governing body who uh approved unanimously approved the Redevelopment plan to permit a warehouse here as a permitted use uh so that's that's that's my objection uh so this would be the fourth Warehouse in precip if it's approved again objection sir you have sir you have to do you have to tailor your questions to the engineer testimony that was provided okay um you said you were going to replant 147 trees um can you are these native species are they invasives can do you have a list of the of the trees and the conditions they will be in when they're uh uh hopefully restored to a disturbed landscape yes there's a landscape a full landscape design that was performed in connection with the app that includes the uh the species the heights the caliper size Etc and with any any project as this one the Landscaping comes with a a warranty so that if uh if the trees were to die within a certain period of time uh they would be replaced at no cost you had agreed to work with the town Forester on this that's correct this this is not you know the Town Forest is our expert who will go in and make sure that they're appropriate trees yes of course we will um did you supply this uh board with a list questions and answers a list of your storm water calculations groundwater recharge storm water runoff is there an actual question and answer list that you submitted to this board or a town engineer there's a what's called a storm order management report no a question and answer criteria uh so the design requirements as well as how the design meets those requirements are all provided in that report there's no there's no question and answer per se but the rules are written in there as well as how the the design uh meets the rules if that's your question well there are questions and answers I could provide the board with I don't have them with me tonight but I do have such questions and answers that are uh standard procedures when there's an environmental commission involved so if you're interested I could Supply you with these questions uh and the wall the noise what decimal is the uh the barrier rated at to uh uh impede the always said up to what festivales Mr homak if you can hold that question that's a question not for this witness we do have a witness who will be testifying with regard to noise and the sound of the wall Etc and that would be an appropriate question to hold for that wit us okay so my last question would be right now ladex 20 to 30 is there going to be less impervious surface or more impervious Surface after this Warehouse more impervious service more impervious service all right thank you there other members of the public who have questions on this witness on this testimony please does the existence of the power line on precip road impede the sidewalk and the guard rail in any way or will that have to be relocated I mean the electric line along the edge the western edge of pcip road that would have to be accommodated as well as the guardrail and and the trees in any in any sidewalk that's proposed any other questions by members of the public hearing and saying none uh counselor well nor has proved me wrong again my office uh I've just located the May 17th uh letter from the uh fire protection subcode official um have you reviewed that letter yes I have can you address the uh comments that were raised in that [Music] letter yeah in short we're we we believe we can satisfy all the comments provided in that letter uh comments are provided regarding the fire department loc connection location fire lane signage and striping as well as uh the Water Service design uh again there's about four comments uh in that letter uh all of which we believe we can address so we'll satisfy those comments through plan revisions or as part of resolution compliance yes okay if the board wants to go through any of them any more detail than that we're happy to but you have our our answer there Ford happy with that y all right you wish to bring forward your next witness or is there a desire for a break or uh NOP Mr Ben Mueller [Music] [Music] just stand up so you get sworn in please raise your right hand you swear affirm that the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record sure Benjamin Mohler m l l r and my firm is ostergard acoustical Associates located at 1460 Route 9 North in Woodbridge New Jersey and Mr Muller can you uh provide your um professional educational and professional background for the board and uh provide any licenses that you hold certainly uh I have my under undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering from Villanova University I also have a master's in mechanical engineering with a concentration and noise and vibration control from Stevens Institute um I've been practicing in the field of Acoustics for the almost 25 years now I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and Oregon my license is current uh I've also been accepted as a an expert uh all across New Jersey as well as in several surrounding states and um active member of several professional societies so we we would respectfully offer Mr Muller as an expert in acoustical engineering any questions on the qualifications our acoustical engineer thank you so Mr moer I'm going to ask a moment uh to describe the uh sound aspects of this as it relates uh to the project and some of the uh issues of concern but uh you heard me reference before a meeting that we held a private meeting that we held with representatives of the Board of Education correct yes and you know we held that meeting candidly in part because uh to former councilman the pio's point uh we were aware that uh there was a proposal initially made for the Bays to be facing parity Road and that due to uh you know once you start to do the heart engineering that just that changed and so there was a sensitivity to how that might impact the schools so we we met with the board of education do you recall that meeting yes I do and what was your at the end of that meeting after your presentation which you're going to give now what was your recollection of of the re of the action from the board president board administrator and the numerous other representatives from the board that was there the uh the result was favorable um despite the fact that this is different than what was originally conceived we still are able to satisfy and and amarate any of the concerns that come with the development of of this type including noise being one of them so um having uh asked you that can you please describe the acoustical aspects of the uh of the application describe the wall how that works and address some of the comments that uh were already provided by the board I'm sure there'll be more comments and questions sure certainly so at the beginning of every project that we are involved with I always have to start where we would consider to be our our beginning Point um what are applicable regulations associated with uh or that help to govern s s sound emissions so here in the state of New Jersey we have a robust uh State noise ordinance it's found under njac 729 and in that uh regulation it discusses uh sight sound emitting from various types of properties and then being received by their counterparts and So speaking specifically of this being an industrial use uh the state code says that our our off-site sound emissions are limited to 65 DBA DB being abbreviation for deciel and a being the aeed decibel when I say DBA it's referencing the the aeed sound level uh which is provided in that format because it best uh best represents how our ear hears um that 65 is is protective to uh for for daytime levels is is protective because of helping to uh minimize any interference with speech communication so if if two people we're having a conversation about 3T apart no normal vocal effort that's approximately 65 and so the ordinance is driven to say that if it's not if there's some sort of uh additional noise that's contributing to where these people might be having a conversation that it isn't as significant level to cause uh interference in that conversation or to have either party forc to raise their voice right um for uh and that level applies for commercial uses 24 hours a day uh and that would be um nearest US would be the the funeral home for example uh as well as the school excuse me U for residential receptors during the nighttime hours which start at 10: p.m. till 700 a.m. that level is reduced to 50 now that is only that sounds like a 15 uh difference there and and it is but because noise is a logarithmic function that is significant difference to uh be uh be sensitive towards sleeping and and um sleeping conditions that for residences so with a site like this uh we are proposing a 24-hour operation so there is potential for nighttime activity to occur and so for residential receptors the the uh driving project goal is to meet that nighttime noise code limit of 50 DBA um there are also octave bands that associate with those overall levels those are designed to make sure that there aren't any um egregious tones associ with the site so the state code covers the overall level it covers U octave ban limits and uh it also has various other um segments to it that uh have VAR degrees of of applicable of uh application to the site but I don't want to get too much into the weeds here on the local level um we have uh let's see in the presp um ordinance is chapter 258 noise now this ordinance is a form of the state model ordinance that is currently being promoted and offered to municipalities and it has the same language that the state has in it so it's become a very uh nice tool promoted by the state and the D to get uh municipalities to align with it and to be able to uh help support the enforcement of the state noise code so we don't have um we have alignment here so the the the codes that we were just discussing uh regarding the state are also that of the local municipality um with those in place again we have a a speculative Warehouse here speculative meaning that we don't have a future tenant um that being the case that doesn't mean that we don't understand how a warehouse works uh you'll hear also after me traffic we'll discuss uh the the prospective traffic of the site and so for a noise analysis I make use of the same tools that the traffic engineer has at his disposal in in order to understand how historical uh warehouses have operated how many vehicles are expected in terms of cars and number of trucks and so we make use of all that as well to do our noise analysis so how do we do the noise analysis well there's two parts of it so the the first part is going to be that the warehouses will contribute a steady presence 24 hours a day and that's associated with their HVAC equipment um a normal Warehouse will have Heating and conditioning in the office space which we've heard testimony earlier about the the small portion that's going to be dedicated to offices but for the grand part of it where it's just um Goods dry goods that are being stored there's really only a circulation of air required um and and heating there's no air conditioning associated with that so what you see for a warehouse is that it really doesn't have uh too robust of a of a HC system associated with it uh but despite that we go and take a conservative slant and we're going to assume that the entire facility uh both the warehouse and the office space is going to be conditioned and that just allows us to continue to promote uh we maybe do not know the specific details of what might be proposed we can come up with a conservative uh estimate of of what might be and so what we did as we developed an acoustical model and assumed that there will be eight 25ton rooftop units uh distributed evenly across the rooftop and so let me just touch in upon the what it is that is this acoustical model before I go into an exhibit uh but we take the Civil plans that we've heard about we we take in the corresponding grading that's proposed as well as the surrounding existing grading I'm interested in where our receptors are located and at what elevations they might be at and we're we put together a three-dimensional acoustical model taking all those geometries into consideration and then we look at well if we introduce a noise Source into a site that currently does not have this of what will the effects be off site and we can then compare those directly to our state and local noise ordinance um as they are only involving sight sound that's emitting from our site we we're not looking at and talking about uh the Ambient sound we know we have uh I80 to our North and we have some well-traveled local roads as well um so the uh the model is going to take in account How Sound falls off with distance which is going to be primarily uh the big Focus or the big pull of of noise mitigation that uh the acoustical model will will highlight uh but also then we're going to be able to show uh how we develop the barrier that we're proposing on the west side of the site that's common with the school um all right I'm going to show introduce now exhibit A5 maybe I believe it's six A6 A6 A6 where your p [Music] thank you okay so what we see on A6 uh this is a collection of views of our acoustical model and on the left hand side we're showing the resulting model of the hvc sound emissions and on the right hand side we have a selection of three uh cross-sections or views of the model on the top right we have a section uh traveling from the west to east and then uh the the middle image is an isometric view from the north side of the project and then the uh bottom right is a view from the school property so if I could just walk through what we're looking at here on the left hand side of the HBC model we see a lot of white uh shapes those are all solid uh buildings in in our area U the the focus being the c-shaped or u-shaped Warehouse building proposed and our property line is outlined in red and then we see a very a variety of individual locations so location a is the nearest residential receptor to the north uh we have locations B and C uh which are uh if I'll show them here so location a is right here to the north this large gap in the middle here is Interstate 80 locations B and C are across Interstate 80 um locations uh de and F are all west of the site at the nearest residential receptors single uh family dwellings uh beyond the school proper and then GH I and J Are all uh along the South here of or sorry g h and I are all the South uh residential community and lastly J is the the school um all of these receptors are placed at a second story elevation approximately 15 ft above grade and that's going to be critical because that's a conservative view of how sound is going to be received at at these locations um okay so the next thing I want to point you uh point out here is uh on our building we see these blue pluses these are the eight rooftop units that I had previously discussed and they're each um modeled with their certain sound power level for equipment of that size when you then look at how their sound uh emanates off site we get a variety of color Contours and those are shown in the bottom right corner of the left side here this is our Legend and it shows what colors correspond to what sound pressure level the nighttime noise code that we talked about at 50 is shown in Gray and then the daytime noise code that we talked about 65 is shown in a red so from this model we see that that there are no gray Contours um in fact at our all of our surrounding properties HBC is going to contribute levels in the the the low to uh the upper 30s to the low 40s uh so that's going to comply with the nighttime noise code limit by a considerable margin the model doesn't include any power pits again to add a level of conservatism um and so we show clearly with the this model that there are no uh issues with uh nighttime noise uh as regarding the HVAC equipment par a site um well we'll talk about it in more detail you can see in light blue here this is the proposed 15t sound barrier here if I can look at uh Point your attention to the three different views on the right side um the top one here you can see the model you can see that that the the the HBC sources are are activated you can see that that's where the highest levels are looking at levels of about 60 across the roof but then as you fall off the the top right corner here shows the section and the dramatic grade that's present so we have our 45412 building the truck Court which is subset slightly more then we have a retaining wall that drops down further and then we have our school and you can see that the school roof is essentially below the the paved area of the truck Court the barrier is shown here kind of in the middle of the section and you could see then how the sound uh interacts with that as it falls off the site in the the middle of the right side here we see an isometric view U looking looking South the school is on the right here and our building is on the left and the sound barrier is also shown in light blue here um in hindsight it's very similar to the sky color here so it makes it hard to see it from Far uh but it it is shown in there and then on the bottom right is the view from the school this is an elevation of about uh 5 foot above grade so ear height and looking up at the building and you could see in the this green shade this would be the retaining wall the blue is is the part of the sound wall uh and then it shows the element of the building that would be visible so just giving a clearer picture of the three-dimensional um elements of the model okay and that exhibit um is just today's date prepared by your office yes please okay on this particular model the only noise you're presenting it's being mitigated is the noise from the air conditioner that is correct exactly so it has nothing to do with the trucks at this point no that's the star what we're going to get to next okay okay okay the next exhibit which will be A7 and this is a pair of models showing what I have on the left side as truck position one which is a truck active in the northern part of the docks and then on the right side is truck position two which is a truck active in the southern part of the docks and so when we start to talk about what is what are what's the truck activity that we would expect here and it becomes a very complex source to describe so not only do is it is it mobile it's able to move around the site uh but it's also very Dynamic we have uh a truck driving which is going to produce a certain level we also have uh a lot of intermittent events that might occur so you'll have a backup alarm you'll have air brake release you'll have coupling to coupling potentially which is the connection disconnection of a trailer and all that occurs uh you know at random times throughout the the period of the the operation and so as an acquisti how is it best to try to capture that and to present it in order to exude the confidence that we will comply with the noise code so what we opted to do and this is what we do for all of our products of this type is we took a look at all the different elements that might occur on site so a driving truck is essentially uh produces a maximum sound level of 74 DBA at 50 ft um in comparison a standard uh uh passenger vehicle is more like 59 so substantially quieter um when we look at the the various intermittent activities that might occur backup alarms coupling to coupling air brakes those end up focusing a little bit higher uh being around 79 at 50 ft and so what we have in our model here on A7 on both the left and right hand side is that 79 at 50 ft so I'm I'm trying to capture the worst of the worst for our evaluation and if we can then design the site to comply then I'm confident that everything underneath that is also going to uh come along for the ride and so on the left hand side we look at the model we see a lot of different colors now the uh HV DC model was ESS actually boring uh but here we we see levels within the truck Court approach uh those levels that I mentioned they're in the the blues and purples so levels of of 70 or greater in and around the truck um but then what we see though is the effect of the sound barrier which is west of the building um dramatically reduces that sound as it tries to travel off site so we see that within the school as well as Beyond uh we see a lot of gray Contours which again line with the 50 DB a Night level um we see that to the north that there is because of the opening that is required not only to let trucks come in and out uh but that it creates a an acoustical alley if you will to the north so locations B and C are able to see effectively line of sight into the truck court now contrary to that though is they're substantially further away and so the model shows that allocations b andc Again full compliance with the nighttime noise code I also want to point out that that those re to the north of the site who are also Beyond I80 which has its own contribution of noise but there's also a for long most of it there is a Highway barrier that is not included in the model so despite those folks on the North uh being able to effectively see in the site that's something that isn't uh going to naturally occur and in order to prevent that from occurring to the South you can see that the barrier design is is aligned so that it extends and curves around the southern part of it and that's so that those residences of the South which are closer uh are also screened by that barrier um just touching upon the school when we were designing this site and the barrier uh the residences because they are uh because they're inhabited at night and because of the nighttime noise code those become the most stringent component of the design of the site I I acknowledge that the school is a sensitive receptor but they're only active during the daytime hours and so it is only the daytime limits that would apply and still keep them protected but because we have to put a barrier here for the residential receptors the school gets a tremendous amount of benefit from that in that the barrier is in place uh across the daytime hours as well so we see that location J uh we end up with levels that approach the nighttime noise code at the school regardless whether it's daytime or nighttime periods and and again these models are at any time the truck were to have an an event in in the location shown here um on the right hand side we move the truck to the southern most Dock and we do the same thing and then you can see then uh that that less noise travels to the north locations being C or reduced uh but to our West and to our South those receptors are still remain in compliance with the nighttime noise code um therefore showing that we could have activity anywhere uh within the dock truck cour area and still have compliance with the noise code um both models with truck activity also include hbac so we're being uh we're having the cumulative effect of it although when you look look at the low level of the HC um the truck events are there's no true summation uh because of the difference in in the magnitude um just to speak briefly on some of the elements that I I know we're going to get questions on um backup alarms have been brought up several times so that in in our experience uh over the road trucks come have backup alarms in three different types and we'll see them almost broken evenly into about a third a third and a third and so a third of the trucks have what everyone is very familiar with which is your standard beeping backup alarm it's uh if you look at the octave bands of that alarm it's really focused around the 1,00 htz octave band and that's because that's where our ear hears best so as OSHA has designed it to be appropriately uh alerting of the people in the area to avoid any sort of accident that's what they do they do it best it also results uh has the side effect that that is very annoying to us over the large periods um a third of the trucks over the road trucks have what we would call a more modern backup alarm and so that would either it would be in some form of a Broadband backup alarm so instead of a beep having all the energy in a single frequency it it actually spills that energy out into the adjoining frequencies and so instead of a beeper it's more of a shusher and it comes out in a little bit of a as a duck quack but it's a noise um that the benefit of that is it's still alerting uh for anyone in the truck Court area uh but because it is in focus in one octave band it Blends in with the background sound level the further away from the site it falls and then as a subpart of that third uh we also see which would be the more of the Cadillac of of backup alarm technology is the Broadband alarm combined with ambient sensing capabilities so the the most modern backup alarms are able to evaluate what level is in the surrounding area is there another Muffler idling 3T away or is am I the only one in the truck court and then adjusting that alarm to be only as as loud it as is so we we come we've come a long way from the brute force of we come it comes in one flavor to being in a variety and then that remaining third is that we actually see that about a third of the trucks uh that are on the road today do not have a back of alarm so the concept of having uh an array of of beepers is is not something that is actually seen in in the current practice of of Warehouse use um despite all that and and that's an interesting anecdote that I have uh the model includes the the beeping version and so we want to account for the the worst of the worst to be conservative here um the next thing to just touch upon I think it might be uh nearing the end of my testimony uh but why are we only modeling one truck obviously the truck there's going to be trucks coming and going all day and all night well there's several reasons for this um one and and maybe I'm I'm stealing some of my colleague Thunder but we're going to hear TR traffic testimony in a bit and when we look at at that that Collective document that both of us are basing our analyses on is we see that this a site of this size is going to command about 45 trucks a day and that's over a 24-hour period so if you were to try to do it distribute it evenly if you wished that works out to be 1.8 trucks per hour but what you actually see though and and the uh The Institute of Transportation Engineers which is where we're getting all this data from um they have a distribution uh a 24-hour distribution of of warehous activity and you see that the the peak of activity occurs during the daytime that's when the most trucks are coming in and coming out and then at night time uh those hours are spent filling trucks for the morning or for the next day or you know you'll get a straggler here or there so in reality you don't have a distribution of evenly distributed across uh the 24-hour period And so you might end up with uh a half dozen during the daytime period say noon and then that means that those have come from the nighttime hours so at night you might get one or or two or none for most of the nighttime hours so this is this is a small Warehouse despite um what how others might view it uh but in terms of of of variety of warehouses this is is quite small because it's small it also has a low truck volume and and so the events that I'm showing here are not only uh intermittent but are also going to be very uh low percentage of the time like when when when if if there are two trucks in an hour this might be representative for the the 30 seconds that that truck comes off the road parks in place uh and then you know sets the truck uh off uh releasing their air braks and creating the the release of of air so these seem to be more egregious than they are but they are really just uh the best representation for this small uh instantaneous moment in time and trying to capture it for evaluation to our maximum noise code limits um the other reason why we only see not only the low volume but when you see trucks now navigating a truck Court even if there are more than one who arrive on site at the same time they are required to work well with each other so one will stop and wait for a truck to finish its movement and then the next one will work so if we were able to press play on this as if it was a a video reel you would see that the source in question here turn off and then somebody else would come in and then 5 minutes later we might have something else etc etc so you don't get that situation where we will have or expect to have five trucks here at the same exact time all emitting their maximum sound level and again that's because the trucks in uh sources that we're just talking about our dynamic in nature so they have a bell-shape curve there's a there's a release or or the activity you're going to hit its maximum which is what we're modeling here and then those are going to fall back down uh to blend in with the background sound level um I think that pretty much touches upon my core testimony uh and then I guess I just want to wrap up and say that in conclusion uh based on everything we we've been able to show here with our model the HPC the intermittent truck activity the site fully complies with all state and local regulations and then given the magnitude of of number of the of of of the volume of trucks and the number of times this is supposed to happen uh across a nighttime period I don't Envision a negative impact and I don't Envision there being uh complaints directed at the site thank [Music] you actually want to start with Mr kiano to um the wall material is that a special material or is it a concrete wall sure let's talk about that you're right I I did uh skip over that so uh Mr Miola had brought up an exhibit here so I will bring this back this is exhibit A4 and uh we're going to focus on the top part that's showing the sound wall That's proposed so this specific product is called uh ecostone and it is a an acoustically rated product um so I would call it it is a sound wall uh and it is it is made of a molded um plastic material it's a poly something polythylene or uh a sort and so what you get is a dense core that also has a lighter weight so the the wall is about 3 and2 pounds per square foot and it's that mass it's that dens it that gives it its acoustical properties so we we hear acoustical properties come in a couple different Fashions um sometimes you talk about noise being absorbed uh but for sound barriers what we want to talk about is is the reduction of sound the capability of going through and so this product has a an acoustical rating of stdc 26 stdc standing for a sound transmission class and so all those sound levels that we talked about and show within the truck Court they each have their own energy and so a a sound barrier or any product is going to perform at have capabilities of reducing those at different frequencies some barriers are are better at high frequencies some are better at low frequencies with a wall of 3 and2 ft this is going to provide a dens of material that it controls the low frequencies of our truck activity sufficiently um the next thing once we've established that we're reducing sound going through it that then drives our other parameters we want to then design the wall to be tall enough and long enough so that the sound going around it or over it uh tires out or is reduced in in in its uh quantity or magnitude similar to how it passes through it so while you could go with a heavier material uh eventually that gets loss because we we could if this was be to be built out of concrete concrete's like 50 pounds per square foot that's great that would reduce the transmission through the material but the height and the length would then still govern how much noise uh is received at your receivers so we have all this designed in a in a balanced fashion to try to make the most out of all of the the configurations right we don't have it it's not too tall it's not too long and it's also not made of material that is uh unnecessary or wasted in in weight okay um I don't know about that particular material was called out on the plants um that is required you have if you're using this and this was used for your calculations it must be included on the plans um as as as any revisions you do that is certainly something we can do yeah um this is more of a structural question though but this wall is situated the sound wall on top of or right next to virtually on top of a 15t retaining wall down below on the low side uh from your knowledge any issues with uh your foundation essentially would have to be you know below the the uh the height of the retaining wall you don't want this acting on your retaining wall below any issues that you can foresee um I know you're not the structural engineer about these foundations that were going to have to be significantly deep to withstand the wind sure but but I can answer it based on experience with with projects the fact that we are here before you with this being it the cohesive design means that we've already considered those those effects if if it was a site that was built and then 5 years later we're coming back and trying to uh put a a supplemental barrier on then those calculations may not uh align in that way but because we're here presenting a cohesive project that they are designed to work with again I'd like some cut sheets or some additional information on the plan showing the crosssection showing how the two walls interact from a stability standpoint certainly okay that that's my my questions all right now Michael all right I'm not concerned about the ambient noise from Route 80 or the ambient noise from pry Road or the ambient noise from the HVAC or even even the truck engines those are those will be handled by a sound barrier I'm concerned about the Thousand cycle back in a beep um that that will reach the schools when the teacher try to make a point and she gets a beep beep beep that will distract the kids absolutely um and people sleeping at night um they I saw your drawings I I guarantee you people are going to hear that when they're when they're sleeping that BBB business um would you agree with me that if the building were turned around and the truck terminal faced paan Road nobody back there the school or the residents they wouldn't hear anything so I've been involved with the project in its current form but I I'm aware of the history there and I think after looking at it for a while I I'm not confident that my answer would be yes obviously with truck Court uh operations being on the on the east side of the building I would agree with that that U activity but also being aware with with warehouses and and being involved in in the design of of of from an acous aspect of of dozens of them I'm also aware that that truck circulation is going also be important and so I'm not I'm quite sure what that plan showed you're the sound engineer I'm talking about sound I'm discussing that I am um so what I would Envision though is because trucks prefer to make a a counterclockwise circulation that even with the truck court on the east side of the project we could potentially have seen a circulation path where trucks wanted to travel counterclockwise around the building it it potentially could have still warranted a sound barrier um hard to say but the the goal here for any configuration would be that we comply with the noise code and that that is indeed protective enough uh for the health safety and W we had another Warehouse U near mabrook Jefferson Road faced on Jefferson Road and the residents in mabrook for on the other side and that sound engineer had a much clearer drawing than yours and his drawing clearly showed that there was no sound on the back end of that building all the sound was going forward from where the truck terminals were and his their drawings were very clear um the the trucks when they enter they're going down a steep slope mhm they're going to be using air brakes or they're going to use their engine to break the truck um based on my experience both of which would produce a noise beyond your your your your sound barrier which the governor Livingston residents would be very unhappy with those are the ones right next on that dirt road they're going to hear that every time a truck goes up and down whereas if the truck terminals were in the front they wouldn't be going down that road be up at the top of the hill there's not really a question there but I I I disagree with every you know with with elements of what you're you're stating I don't find that this the grade here is going to Warrant engine brakes um they're going to be coming from a stop at on parpan and they're going to be turning and then they have to travel a 100 or so feet before they turn into the site so engine brakes are are used when a truck is at a higher speed the topography says that the that's a 40ft drop what did you say 35t drop a 35 ft drop 35t drop they'll be using their breaks I agreed to disagree I'm not sure okay Mr MTH just out of curiosity did you do I I noticed it looks like you're predicting probably about 50 DB at the East L school um I think one of them one chart was 5 one the other one was 50 correct uh 50 uh for the Northern Truck G operations did 52 for southern that being the the worst case did you model it without a wall yes how much of a difference does wall Mak um it would probably it would still comply with day code limits um I believe at for the school specifically we probably were about 10 DB higher in level so instead of 52 it would be 62 so if if we were before you with a site that we were conf was only going to operate during the daytime hours uh I do not believe the sound barrier will be required in order to meet the noise code okay thank you all the members of the board have questions on this testimony at this time all right before I go to the public Mr Enga you see the time uh we're going to have some questions from the public we'll go through those this will probably be your last uh witness tonight understood Mr chairman all right I'm just letting everybody know all right are there any members of the public who have questions of this witness on this testimony so that we can elicit more facts hi Julia Peterson 25 Old pip Ro what mitigation would you recommend for the prop properties to the north [Music] since there isn't any medication right now on that who who specifically are you referring to pardon me who what specific like okay this is a we're talking about this which is 140y old barn and this which is a 300y old house right and and we have a receptor there uh looking at for for that okay I assume that the yellow means that more noise is impacting the funeral home and this is that correct uh if you look at the legend the the more robust colba right so it's it's substantially quieter all the truck cor activity is quieter uh and also with the c-shaped design of the building yeah I understand about that okay um but if if you were going to recommend mitigation for here to cut that down what would you do what would you recommend well there's no mitigation that's that's warranted I'm not saying I'm I'm just I'm going to form a complete um for for all any of this truck Court operation right this is showing that we can operate anywhere within the truck court and that this reception is is not an issue uh it was just brought up before uh the discussion of trucks entering and exiting the site uh this starts to become legally complex right we we have we have a right of way and easement there needs to be able to allow for Ingress and egress um but what I look at as as an engineer is I'm also considering the fact that have our our roadway here so so there's I'm balancing code and potential impact and so for for the folks to the west and the South um where there currently isn't a warehouse and dock activity this is the focus is to have a sound bar here so that we maintain no negative impact here uh for this receptor I I'm I have to already acknowledge that that they have heavy presence from Paran uh Boulevard as well as something from 80 and so I'm confident that the driving of a truck in and out of here before they get to do their heavier lifting so to speak that that this is there's no going to be no negative impact from this okay now the also to recall the the the quantity the volume that we're talking about here have you ever found that vibration or sound has an effect on Old buildings uh well vibration is is going to be the acoustical energy traveling through a structure um for for for that we have been involved in that but that is primarily like New York City um proximities and heavy duty construction demolition uh that kind of thing um I find that with with truck activity look look at any Vehicles they all have rubber tires and that provides significant isolation so you don't see any transmission of vibration from these vehicles through the concrete or through the ground uh affecting adjacent structures you does create an effect that might affect it could potentially so if you want to discuss the um development of the site yeah um there are a couple factors here so uh construction has to occur within the allowable regulation hours and so the way they they control noise from that type of activity is it it they say it can only be in the daytime from certain time to a certain time and and that's the the best tool available for municipalities to mitigate noise from construction um I'm not aware of uh and I'm not the right expert for of whether it needs to be any sort of substantial Rock work or anything like that there um anything like that that has to happen there are also strict protocols to follow uh and so understanding that this is a historic nature um I it's not my purview but that should be taken into consideration in my opinion thank [Music] you the members of the public first to have asked questions the my name is Lori Canary 242 Pitman Road sorry speaking you pull the microphone closer and repeat your name could you please restate your name and address just closer to the microphone Lori canceler 242 Pitman Road in Lake parcion okay I have a question uh what about um speak the micophone pleas just speak right into the microphone break like Break um failure or brakes locking what about uh out of control you know uh trucks coming down that driveway what about ice and snow buildup ice slicks snow buildup in the in the winter time with having them having to go in between that build that thing and and the school there's a lot of potential there for liability with all those trucks in different cases like that so we're leaving my area but appreciate the question um but this is not the respectfully this is not the witness for that question this is just about Sound Engineering testimony so if you have questions questions about the sound Engineers testimony today noise things like that anything else would be a different witness or for General comments what what Forum do I ask these questions in then so I'm not sure which witness could testify on the truck questions but General comments will be at the end and concerns and we we'll have our traffic witness here uh at the next meeting and I'm not sure whether this question would be for the traffic engineer or the civil engineer but let's hear what the traffic engineer has to say and we'll try to get that addressed when is that whenever the board tells me we haven't gotten there yet they're going to tell us shortly that that witness will be it's not it's not tonight it's not going to be tonight okay thank you thank you Mr homc come on up I don't have to State my name again right yes please I do uh uh Nicholas HC 2609 Avenue uh Lake hawaa uh Mrs Peterson was up here uh was it a fact that the most vulnerable direction or uh that the sound is not a cushion would be toward the Benedict Livingston his storic property was that the conclusion of you and hers uh I didn't quite follow your question can you rephrase it or state it again what is the most vulnerable direction that the barrier doesn't compensate for what direction is the sound it it's this Northwest Corridor that you could see in exhibit A7 on the left hand side highlighted by locations B and C here and is that toward the historic trust property no sir it actually is west of that all right the echo Stone material that you're talking about um does it um is it durable to the elements does it decompose is it toxic note All the Above you said it was some type of plastic correct it's a it's a um uh a composite material and it doesn't have any uh uh toxic toxicity to it is it durable to the elements has can you give an example where it was used and for how long already it's not a new product and and I I don't have a specific place where you can go to today uh but it's a Nationwide available product and it's been used at more sites than just this one and what it matter at all if there was no concrete and just the echo stone for a barrier and would and does the concrete have any effect on amplifying the noise like uh bouncing off a wall so by concrete you're referring to the retaining wall in the truck yard when trck are beeping and breaking around the the first sound wave would hit the concrete right what do you mean by concrete the barrier is concrete with a echo the sound barrier well the sound barrier is not made of concrete the retaining wall is and then that's that's well below grade so the retaining wall has nothing to do with noise reduction no it does not that's that's for structural uh elements and to allow the site to step as was described by the civil engineer all right cuz I was impression that the barrier was on top of the wall correct and and so as you go from east to west the the grading of the truck court is substantially higher than the west side of the sound wall and so it drops down and so the the retaining wall sound produced by the truck court is not incident on the retaining wall do you have an MSDS available for this Echo Stone I'm sure it's it we can find something like that for you oh for them well yes all right okay MSDS stands for material safety data sheet discussing the chemicals or materials of of construction all right evening my name is Joseph patini I'm at 128 memoral Road P so just a question approach sure the um in your graph here the chart there's a sound barrier here now which you north side of 80 yes which you don't account for correct that sound barrier was put in for to reverberate 80 noise back toward 80 now it's going to how is that backside of that barrier going to affect this noise it could absorb or reflect it will reflect um but but by not including it we're we're showing that it's at such low magnitude uh that it it's controlled without it and the reflection back south is just going to take some of these sound uh waves that are incident on the North properties and send them back to the South but but there's no concern about them somehow amplifying other locations because again now they've traveled half the distance and then the the more sound travels the more tires out and the more energy it loses okay thank you m other members of the public have questions of this witness on this you could come forward and identify yourself please hi my name is Christine Espinosa 131 marora um I just wanted to know if um I'm one of those uh residential homes there and uh we do hear the trucks and the Dre brakes and all that from 80 with the wall that they have currently there um do you with your expertise do you think that these walls are more like modernized and they would um be better with the sound barrier or we we don't model 80 in here but if if we could just Envision it it's it's in this this empty swath here even though it's the furth thing from it um but there's this is where those trucks are traveling so any of the the jake brakes that you're hearing now are coming from those vehicles that are traversing there so our site really doesn't have unless you were to the South here our site really isn't going to do anything to to change that um but I also can say that that the number of trucks that we're talking about here are not going to do anything to exacerbate that existing situation that you're already experiencing because I'm I'm just wondering on like how they were just uh they mentioned about the the backup beeps and stuff like we're going to hear that a lot more than we do on 80 because we don't hear any of that but I just wanted to know if the walls that you guys are going to put up are they just is it the ecos Stone just a better material than what is currently um as a sound barrier for 80 right okay so uh I'm not I I'm familiar with what General Highway barriers are and they're typically pre-cast concrete um so this material is going to be lighter weight than that but it's going to be just as effective as trans as reducing the sound transmitted through the product so it's going to be similar it's not going to be better because like this is closer to us sure the sound barrier that's along 80 is designed to reduce sound transmitted to the north and so for you to be to the West here um that really doesn't have a it doesn't uh influence you at all so this barrier though is going to substantially reduce the amount of noise that's contributed to the West here which will affect you um we talked a little bit about when we we talked about the material here if we were to make this better or heavier there would you would not see a profound return on that and that's because the height of the barrier and then the length of it are also paths that the sound travels and so until it'll follow the path of least resistant so we can make the wall out of lead but if it's only so high that sound will love to go up and over it rather than try to get through it so there it unless you treat some additional paths but but still here what we're showing is that this is optimized to result in in levels being sufficiently low and I let's touch upon audibility since I know some of the board members had brought it up and you had just brought it up um we can't or I can't stay before you and say you'll never hear the sight but what what the code protects though is that we've reduced it to a magnitude that isn't going to be disruptive it's not going to wake you up in the middle of the night oability is going to depend on uh an individual's hearing sensitivity and it's also going to highly depend on the ambient and I I I understand that with I80 being here there's a there's a heavy presence of sound at all hours of the day at nighttime it will diminish but but this is an is a a terrific Aid in preventing you from hearing a lot of entities from here if if this was not here if I8 was not there the the chances of audibility would be greater again though with the magnitude that we're we're showing here it's not at a level that will cause destruction I guess we'll find out thank [Music] you um the loss of the vegetation in the trees will that increase the uh the noise Factor no absolutely not and and one thing that I I I glossed over but my model doesn't include any vegetation and that's because to be conservative and and also to align with reality but but Landscaping doesn't provide any sort of substantial sound attenuation um we also want to acknowledge that in the winter that any deu Tre trees will lose their leaves so unless you have a a a vegetative buffer that's hundreds of feet thick that you can't see through we're not relying on any of that for [Music] attenuation in response to the lady's question um you said that the sound barrier on 80 was not designed to mitigate noise for that neighborhood to for that neighborhood correct yes but this sound wall is yes okay is that okay any other members of the public have questions in this we this this testimony at this time disagree with that wall definitely progress the sound the two walls are two different things well I'm aware of a wall along the north side of 80 I are you saying that there's also a wall on the south side of 80 Okay then if that's the case then I digress then then the wall here is preventing it controlling 80 sound from traveling to the South as well um my focus I I guess was on how we were getting to the north and so I'm fully aware that there is a a tall barrier on the north side of of 80 here uh but I did not pay much mind to one here just to clarify I believe the wall stops uh somewhere around this office building so it doesn't carry all the way stops at 287 we we need people to either come up and identify themselves to make these statements for the record Bill sener 157 allent toown Road Lake parcion the barrier stops at 287 it actually cuts the corner on the 287 off ramp off Route 80 and wraps completely around and continues down 287 South there's no break in that wall it's solid all the way around okay thank [Music] you why are we discussing the 80 wall as if it has something to do with this construction and the noise that's going to be generated from this Warehouse I don't understand why we're mixing question raised by another member of the public and so we were going down that route of questioning but it was like it somehow it's going to be better well that's the impression I got and no that was that was the question was whether this wall would be better than the one that's already on I80 so we were we were comparing and contrasting the purposes okay I apologize barriers in the material [Music] all right any any other questions of this witness and this testimony at this time hearing and seeing none it's almost 10:00 exactly which is usually our witching hour for new testimony uh Nora what dates do you have available for uh continuing this hearing well I'd like to discuss quickly with Mr engino considering he has other applications coming up and this one's going to need another f it um can we carry this to June 3rd understanding that there's another large application for that evening and then we can dis then we can discuss what we're going to do for June 3 and then if we have to further carry it we can but so you want June 3 yes and thene application but I don't know you know it could be an hour and a half you know I don't know I won't be inun right so let's carry it to I would request that sounds like it's going to be carried beyond that too anyway well uh the point is that there's two uh there's two applications on for June third that are sizable at this point right well just just one oh well okay uh you're talking about so right uh yeah we're never going to get to this one you want to carry this to June 3D well carry to June 3D and then we can from there we can decide you know whether this win or silven goes forward on June 3 I I just don't know the answer to that question yet all right we're going to let you know here that this is your public notice if this board so votes to carry it to June 3D do I have a motion to carry it for and and Mr chairman just just to be clarified I just want the record to be C that the the motion would be to carry uh this application to June 3rd with no further notice to the public uh for 7:30 p.m. right here uh in the municipal building correct that's that's what I'm asking for a motion for Mr chairman a motion as Mr engino just noted for June 3D at 7:30 was it well that's when the meeting begins the actual time that we actually hear it will be another matter and with required extensions second yes we've got a motion and a second all in favor I any opposed all right to the public this this meeting this applications is being carried to June 3D we have other business that night so there is no guarantee at all that we will get to this application that night I I'm going to suggest that you contact Nora our clerk to find out what the likelihood of getting to this application that night are or if it's just going to be what we've done an occasion in the past which is to have the applicant figure out what other dates are also reasonable for them to go to so that what might happen on June 3rd is that we carry it to yet another date at that point I'm sorry to to make it difficult for you uh it's also possible it's going to start at 10:00 at night uh because we have so many other things going on but Nora usually doesn't let us do that no I don't uh so there will be no further notice if we don't get to it on the 3 we're going to do exactly the same thing and that will also not require notice so since all of you are very interested in what's going on M joli will be the primary source for your information as to what's going to go on so if you contact her she will know what's going on so if we don't get to it on the 3D and you need to find out when it's been carried to going forward she will have that information then all right is there anything else that needs to come before this board tonight and the applicant's attorney consented to an extension of time for the board to act correct yes anything else that we need to have come before us tonight do I have a motion to adjourn so move second all right all in favor say I hi anybody oppos a