you're on record all right good evening everyone announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted conducted in accordance with njsa 10 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act Nora if you would please call the role Mr burkowitz here M grani present Mr josco here Mr Mella here Mr ready pres Mr willing here chairman Kaplan here we also have our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer Mr L manowitz and our board attorney Mr Johnson here all right if you would please stand for the Pledge of [Music] Allegiance Pledge of algi States sure Mr CH do you swear or affirm that any testimony that we get tonight will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes Mr you swear affirm tonight the truth yes I do all right uh before we open the meeting uh to the general public I do just want to uh take a moment of silence uh recognizing the poor child who was killed about one block down the road I'm at the intersection of 202 and Littleton over there uh hit by a car last night uh while riding his bike which is what children do um he was only uh 8 years old so um just want to take a moment of silence for him all right thank you um at this time we will open the meeting to the general public if there's anyone in the room who has uh business to conduct with the board that is not on tonight's agenda okay we will uh move on to correspondences we have uh correspondents uh for the application 2327 asking for it to be carried uh from tonight to October 9th without further notice and they are granting uh the board the extension uh to make a decision on the case motion so move second okay I guess we have to go one by one on this no okay all those in favor all right any opposed next correspondence is um application 2361 156 Hy Road asking to be carried from tonight to December 4th without further notice and granting extensions motion second all those in favor I okay and the last correspondence we received another correspondence about um requesting that the uh that we remove the 90-day extension uh from the agenda Mo moved all those in favor by okay um just a little housekeeping we need to approve the 2025 uh calendar of meetings which is in your packet and you need to discuss this we double checked it for holidays we should be good moove the acceptance second second okay all those in favor I all right and now we go to the resolutions which we have grouped uh the first two 2419 and 2414 burwitz grani mozerella Petty Quinn who's not here and ready so second he Nora bur yes reani yes yes ready okay um the next one is by itself 2421 uh burer wz grani mazarella Petty and second burwitz yes bani yes Mella yes ready yes okay 2402 by itself burit grani josowitz mozarella Petty willins and Kaplan so moved second burtz yes grani yes jitz yes yes yes 2411 HDR Holdings burtz grani josowitz mazarella Petty ready and Kap so move second Jos burit yes bani yes Josella yes ready yes Kaplan yes and the final one 2362 this is a small one burkowitz jitz mazarella and ready yes second burit yes mozarella yes yes okay I believe that brings us to our agenda items we will start with 2416 muhamad zarir 24 seminol have come on [Music] up sure are you both going to be testifying I ass can you both raise your right hands please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth starting here please state your name spell your first and last names last name okay you can have a seat kig I'm the architect for the project uh Todd kig architect is the firm uh my name is to k o e n g I'm sorry would you please repeat your name last name spell it k o e n i g thank [Music] you seems the happy engineer all right so you are here because you are looking to build a porch an addition another porch some stairs move in a garage going to do a driveway front walk a balcony and install two air conditioning units for a grand total of 10 variances for this property um and looks like building coverage uh you're allowed 20% you are asking for 26.42% [Music] oh this is what you want to do you just need the one I'm sorry you need the one variance for the coverage okay you want to tell us a little bit about your project sure and why you're doing it sure this is an existing one-story home it's a small home um and the owner and his son are both going to live in this home with families uh and they just need more more room so uh We've added a second story to the house we've squared off some of the uh odd shapes of it to make the rooms function better uh and we've done some aesthetic impr improvements to make it more attractive the uh the ground floor you can see on sheet A2 that there's a uh the list first on the right side and just two small bedrooms and a kitchen and a living room uh to the left of that is the proposed first book which shows would you please speak into the microphone speak into the microphone uh made a little larger um and the addition of a family room and and the enlarged living and dining area uh the second floor is primarily bedrooms bring the board's attention to an error on the plan on the second floor uh outside of bedroom number five is a note that says kitchen but that is not a kitchen that's just a sitting area uh there was an original design that had a kitchen there which had been removed and just neglected to take off the word kitchen so there will only be one kitchen correct there will be no area on the second floor that has everything but a stove and or a sink there'll be no facility on the second FL one family yes is it an extended family or an extended family you saides people right sorry you said families yeah it's an extended family it's it's a a a a man's wife and their children and and his father and mother okay and they will have any cooking facilities on the second floor I'm sorry they will have no cooking facilities on second that is correct who is going to discuss the issues that the countship here rais of seen has seen any here you go yeah they should have mailed it to you you probably just didn't receive it yet issues raised is one of more extensive reports is one of the more extensive reports that I think the boards received from down engineering department and it and it cautions you in terms of the development of this project and what it may cost in terms of the drainage improvements it makes it strong recommendation that you may want to reconsider the extent of the additions I mean the second floor doesn't increase it perious but all the additions do and it triggers a separate set of rules under the the storm water management rules that the township basically they were handed with the township of De so I have no alternative but to utilize those rules and I think you should sit down with the town engineer go over this with him and see whether you're not you're going to modify your project um go forward with it you could bear the cost of the drainage when we're talking about cost of drainage we're talking about significant costs many thousands of dollars so to go forward tonight my recommendation board is we not do that give you the opportunity with your architect your engineer whoever I think it's primary an engineer is going to have to sit down unless you have both licenses I don't know it's it it the thing is we try to get these on as quick as you can and the reports are what they are so my my suggestion is I I don't think would be productive at all to go forward we we are in agreement without knowing what you're getting into agreement we'll like postpone the case yeah we'll carry it what the biggest thing that's in here is that it's engineer says you need New Jersey uh permit the P permit before that's that's going to be your biggest step and hardest yes can okay thank you thank you a uh I don't know how much time they need [Music] um want to see if there's August 7th do you need that much time otherwise may need more time than that you might need more time I'll take that and if we give you a date certain now you don't have to read advertise if we don't you'll have to read advertise yeah can we can we go to the September meeting then uh I [Music] can uh September 11 is there anyone here from the public for this case no okay so we'll carry this to September 11th you're going to GR us all extensions absolutely okay thank you very much allv thank you okay I guess everyone else is here for case or there's nothing on TV they just want to see you uh sing 2406 come on down that's all I [Music] got got more I first second can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony that you about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth please state your name spell your first and last name yes please can have a seat [Music] my first name is gagan deep last name sing uh first name is spelled g a g a n d e e p last name s i n g h can I ask you to please spell your first name again g a g a n d e e p who is who is just Bing that's my father okay so you're looking to construct a new twostory 3,59 and change square foot single family dwelling uh with a front entranceway and some an open Deck with some stairs seeking three variances uh open decks courts yards 19 is allowed you're asking for 2424 building coverage 15 is allowed you're looking for 21.25% an impervious coverage little change uh 30 allowed 31.3 three is what you are seeking so if you would just tell us what you're looking to do and why you're looking to do it and obviously you've got some experts here to help house so basically we have a large extended family yeah just pull the mic closer to you [Music] so essentially we have a large extended family it's my parents our grandparents and um we are looking to expand the current house that was there in order to accommodate all of our relatives that will be living with us over there how many is that that is two grandparents my parents um my brother and I and then once we get married we will also have our spouses live together with us in that house so we're looking at eight to yes okay uh how many cars are you looking for in the driveway uh currently we have three cars and how many will there be when everyone moves in well one of our cars recently got into an accident so we're going to be replacing that car maybe like four [Music] cars one basically one car per couple yes no one no couple's going to have two cars no most likely not most likely do you represent Mr Sing yeah the engineer Sor the engineer okay I understand I know you got to swear me in y he jumped the gun and wanted to get going I understand could you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should beute the whole truth yes I do okay you want to yeah Frederick C Miola m e o l a are you going to give the testimony that tells us that there's not going to be more than one kitchen and all that stuff I I can tell you what the architectural plant shelter is there's only one kitchen any other uh general questions can you clarify that you say the architecture plan says there's only one kitchen are you confirming that from your design I I just wanted to look at the plan but I'm pretty sure it's only one kitchen it would seem with three separate households granted they're all related the potential for more than one kitchen would occur if that occurs Department makes in inspection you'll be issued a sum we've had a number of these types of cases in the recent months of exended family and we know there the problem Z ordinances are still in better sorry the the issue isn't addressed by the zoning code today so you have to get an approval for all the variances plus overcome what would appear to be three different households in the building all related granted and it's certainly not unusual but the size of this house certainly lends itself to have a separate cooking facility the way the definition is in in pipany it's a a dwelling unit is a place where can sleep eat and have common space and obviously the second floor meets that and particularly when you have all the bathrooms that you're showing just seems that there's going to be spaces that will be kind of private spaces to each of the generations the other thing we kind of look no did we didn't get an Engineers report on the sh no why why yeah did I not get an engineer's report I can give you the phone number and you can ask I mean that I send everything to the toship engineer when I send it out for review they just haven't responded so there's no egresses on the second floor no on the second floor there's just a stairway in the center of the building okay and on the first floor there's just the front door and is a is that a backs slider there there's a front door there is a backslider and there's also a stairwell that leads down to the basement I see that okay um quick question when we asked you who was going to live there you gave us four sets of two people once everything's done um can you tell us why there are five bedrooms well one room is going to be used for prayer and then on the that wasn't one of the five bedrooms there's actually five bedrooms listed well we would need one guest bedroom as well in case we have family come over for any sort of function or anything you know is there a basement to this house yes yes what is going to be going on in the basement well just we're planning on having okay I see any sort of religious gatherings or any sort of parties that we would throw Gatherings with family and we would just use that space to hang out essentially by religious gatherings you going to have like a house of worship with within your house um not necessarily but it would be we would have a separate room in the house which we would use for religious purposes that would be on the top floor and that would just be for your immediate family for or for others no just for our own immediate family the basement would be a kind of friends andal Gathering oh wouldn't be for religious purpos well it could be could be yeah have you spoken to the town engineer at all on this no I haven't yeah gave me a second the hug report on the other house but nothing on this one I mean you know the rules better than I do as soon as you start going above certain percentage and coverage dp's Rules start really cranking up in terms of water quality do you think that could be the case in this situation John it's reaching point for the coverage so how do we go forward if we don't even know if that's an issue up I think the question so we can you talking [Music] about you talking about impervious coverage no not impervious coverage building coverage building coverage perious coverage is not a dramatic issue [Music] should be an application not knowing the neighborhood how does this house fit in aesthetically with the neighboring houses I mean I I kind of do know the neighborhood um I I don't know the exact street but I I believe it's Hills of Troy and I don't think I've recognized a house of that size in the neighborhood yeah there's um there's a I don't want to say a large spread but there is a spread of homes I did use the sr1 code the sr1 cards to make an estimate of other building coverages um no disputing open for my here it is um I I I looked at all the homes in the streets around us which was was Spartan bisses Gan and Homer and there's 54 homes there out of those 54 homes there are 13 of them that exceed the 15% and you also have some homes that are smaller there's one home that's only 7.99% up to a high of I think almost 21% how many stories are those homes I don't know I'll be honest with you I didn't look at the stories so I personally am less concerned about that and more concerned about an engineer's report the fact that we somehow maintain that it is a one family the basement having the second that staircase is a little bit could be used for something else I guess if you want to have people come into the basement and not truck through the house so for me those are my concerns you know the fact that someone buys a house or buys a piece of property wants to BU build a house that's a little bigger or bigger than the next door neighbor that just doesn't concern me as much as long as he's not making it into a two family or three family my my concern to the frankly the building coverage 15% you said there are houses in the neighborhood that exceed that well but this one is exceeding it by quite a large percentage yes 15 to 20 6% that's 40% larger okay on coverage that's pretty dramatic why do uh so you're going to defend why that's necessary yeah well I I made a study of the homes I understand but that does out of the 13 that are over the 15% six of them are 177% higher one of them is 20.9 so there's not one house in this area though that had has 21.25% C no there's none of them have 21.5% slightly over the highest one so this is significant it's a significant variance request right yes you're here to get that variance that's very significant are you going to give us testimony as to why that's needed I I had discussions with the client about this and it's mainly because of the families and especially because of the Elder parents need a bedroom on the first floor they don't need stairs so that enlarges the footprint on the ground floor uh we talked about the possibility of taking that stairway that's on the right side of the building and maybe incorporating it in off the garage inside the building to then you'd pick you reduce the coverage by well five reduce the coverage by about 60 square feet which would help um but you know there be another exit entrance right there on the side their orders to me were that this is the size house they need they met with the architect this is what they need to accommodate what they're going to be using for which is themselves their parents and their two sons you know it's you're right it's a lot and you want protection on the zone that stay single family and all I can tell you is that another town that they work in they put right in the in the resolution that it must be a one family home you know you cannot convert it to anything that we do the same here we we can do that here and we do do that yeah but that's not the issue for tonight so I I think I got you know my my question as it pertains to the engineers report is looking and we've had this a few times recently that that top is there going to be an attic there and if I look at the attic it looks like there's a place like a balcony out there coming out from the roof basically so that's a concern of mine does that turn into where do you see that Chris on the front page upper right corner you don't think that looks to me again without having the report or knowing the height there see in this I I don't know that's just it looks like the Dormer down below it I think it's a d I believe those are the bump out dormers on either side of the house that's on the third floor yeah on the on the attic side yes cuz there's no attic plan in the package yeah the dmer is right here and then the same thing back here right here there's a door and then there's the other that's just to me that just looks like a pitch but we have to Define what that third store is and then the other piece of it Mr josco it's asked before about the the second egress and there's a stairwell to the right like you pointed out that could probably easily have a door right outside and entrance and an exit right there with a couple walls put in after the fact turns into two family are there any windows on the third floor like there's aesthetic windows on the third four you look at the front view the architect has tried to dress up the look of the house especially in the upper roof area so are these just FAL sters or are they space my understanding is they're FAL ders I can we don't have an attic plan so we don't know yeah the attic is going to remain unfinished time remaining we're just planning on using it for storage I I think instead of going around and around because we're not going to be able to deal with drainage on this site because we don't have an Engineers report and that's the critical issue with your main main variance is your coverage and we I think we'll just be going in circles and carry waste everybody's time uh we can obviously make a call the engineering department and ask them if they could get us a report I'm just saying and we should get an attic plan so we have a complete set of the build the building do you think he should have his architect be here too probably a good idea right I I already anticipated telling need the architect next I can tell the question because John's concern is this is the coverage is you know could be water whatnot the board's concern might be more of the Interior well it's both I just put we can't solve the doesn't make any difference with the interior we can be comfortable with the drainage that we can focus on absolutely the building itself there's a house there now right yes well I I should say they they jumped the gun not telling me and had the existing house taken down so as of right now it's a vacant lotac lot oh okay how big was the house that was taken down the house that was there was 1791 square feet and 100 sare foot sh guys please I'm I'm just giving you the footprints because that's what I have on my drint and the driveway was 986 Square ft and then there was a paer and steps which was 513 Square ft so what was there originally on total impervious coverage was 3455 okay uh our job here is to approve or not approve variance request here based on the information here and lack of evidence of other side from the engineering report we I will not be able to do that tonight my opinion so I don't know if the rest of the board is an agreement with that but clearly we would need to have other information to proceed hour okay so yeah the other thing I I I I would be remiss in not saying that here I think because it's how I feel looks like a beautiful home and there are a lot of homes in this town that are well over 3,000 square ft okay so that's not the issue the issue is the location of this home where you chose to put it at this time and I really think that this is a welcoming loving Community will likees families together we love to have you be here do that that but that site might not fit all you're going to have to do and all the work you're going to have to do for construct I mean for uh drainage and everything else and the pur coverage but the coverage of the property is very extensive increase of uh requirements here and I would be very high pressed to approve that in my opinion uh on this site so if you can address some of those concerns of mine then we'll welcome you back you have the other additional information okay think we' like to actually get an actual report from the engineer that's the first step you can read the board and see what some of our concerns are iar um and seems like you have to have some conversation with your client uh I assume you want to carry this yes we're going to have to carry it we granch you an extension uh hey Fred uh you should reach out to the township engineer they already have the original application already have the zoning officer report uh you guys should do it and discuss it and okay and get me a copy of the report we can carry this to question you say am I dealing with Tom or am I dealing with Township engineer Jus correct okay just wanted to make sure I was getting the right person okay okay uh we can carry to September 25th September 25th and you said you'll Grant all extensions yes okay all those in favor okay so for those of you who are here there will be no additional notice September 25th same place right here 7:30 most likely um that's it okay all right well that will do it for our regular agenda motion to uh yeah hold on let me find the uh on one second it's tough here not seeing Robert there we have make some motions on that I think you're going to retire already you want to get everybody to swim on yeah then folks we are going into a closed session so if we could ask you to exit as soon as possible all right whereas the open public meetings act PL 1975 chapter 231 permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting in certain circumstances and whereas the township of parcion Choy Hills Board of adjustment is one of the is of the opinion that such circumstances presently exist and whereas the township of parcion Troy Hills Board of adjustment wishes to discuss attorney client privilege regarding Pacific outdoor vers Pary Troy Hills Board of adjustment and whereas minutes will be kept and once the matter involving confidentiality of the above no longer requires confidentiality the minutes can be made public now therefore be it resolved by the township of parney tro Hills Board of adjustment that the public be excluded from this meeting and I have a motion second all those in favor nor are we good yeah back on the record motion to close all right see see you [Music] [Music] my biggest problem I understand have a sign facing Weston people going where they are where ass sign bigot very if [Music] they that you think be you think where you think they would be okay over like further west the day where all those off judge is