##VIDEO ID:T4wUrMDNYR4## e e record got a ready Nora yes [Music] okay go ahead minut members present no no what am I doing oh dear God all right announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 40-6 Etc of the New Jersey open public meetings act roll call please Mr burtz here Mr Jos goitz here Mr Mella here Mr Quinn here Mr ready pres chairwoman grani pres we have our board planner Mr Chadwick board engineer Mr L manowitz and our board attorney Mr Johnson here you please stand and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance States Amer stand s fromuth truth and nothing but the truth pleas that testimony that you get tonight should be the truth truth the truth yes I for the record uh Mr willings is here here here he youone ready to well just so we move on to correspondence uh we have correspondence received from Muhammad Z block 539 lot 9 request an application 2416 be carried from December 4th 2024 to December 12th 2025 without further notice and with necessary extensions through Fe AR 28 2025 if correspondent receive from Michael Mo application 2436 block 562 L 16 requesting his application be withdrawn and correspondence received from Don haran es uh esire request in application 2361 SRI Shamy block 325 lot 3 be carried to April 9th 2025 without further notice and with extensions through April 30 2025 so second you're moving to Grant all those applications correct yes okay great okay we also have resolutions uh which everybody can vote on everyone that's here application uh 2440 Juni off uh 63 Fairmount Road and application 2431 Chase Bank 53 North beverick Road someone like to make a motion some second Jos burkowitz yes josowitz mozzarella yes Quinn yes ready yes willing y grani yes yes okay is there anyone here that would like to speak on something other than what is on our agenda this evening see no [Music] one application 2416 Mohammed Z we're going to start with u United methodists Okay application 24 colon 58 United Methodist Church 9003 South beverick Road Block 764 lot 35 Zone R-1 RW C variant to construct a freestanding sign good evening the attorney which is representing us is actually in R she's not here yet oh due to the to the okay probably some traffic most likely the traffic with the accident she text she text me a few minutes ago said she'd be here in 15 minutes 10 minutes or something no problem she's in as long as the communication is there that's good you want to move on to application we're to hear Danny real do we have can we do we're doing the Danny application that's application 20 colon 54 Danny reality 25 Route 46 block 770 Lot 1 Zone B2 preliminary and final major site plan with c d variants for a gas station and drive-thru restaurant with the proposed modifications from the original application as follows add a mountable curb Island located at the entrance exit from the property to from New Road and directional signal signage to include no stacking Beyond this point alternate entrance on Route 46 East and drivethru directional sign removal of a retention wall and a standard R New Jersey 10-7 a or similar do not block driveway will be installed that was a did a great job was a okay good evening James Turtle tab t t t u Turtle tab laer on behalf of Danity I'd like to thank the board for taking it time for this uh this matter uh Madam chairman and members of the board uh is on reman uh litigation right now in County uh the application was heard and denied uh we filed an action and I'm pleased to say that we've come to a resolution of something isues with the board help negotiation with v Johnson and tonight I'd like to um to present to you and for the board to the public the changes that we made to the plan that will appeal to uh address the board's concern and hope we get a final approval on this to the whisper Woods process so with that uh tonight with me I have James Henry he's our civil engineer in this matter he's testified before report I'll have him qualified again as an expert witness in civil engineering and just to go through the changes that we made the plan to the settlement amended settlement hope so that Mr Henry can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm of the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and up truth I do state your name and spell your last name please James Henry h n r y can have a seat and microphone and Mr Henry if you could just for the members of the board just give them some of your background and your education what you do as a position and your familiar with if you could sure as far as education I have a Bachelor of Science in civil engineering from Rucker University with a minor in public planning I have a master's of Science in civil engineering as well from knucker University uh in civil engineering um I hold licenses in New Jersey Pennsylvania New York as well as Connecticut as a civil engineer I'm also a licensed professional planner in New Jersey and I did that by way of test I'm a senior principal of dynamic engineering Consultants I've been there uh for approximately 19 years uh in particular I've worked on over a 100 gas stations and quicks serve restaurants and probably over 50 different Dunkin Donuts throughout New Jersey uh I've been accepted in the field of civil engineering by over 100 boards throughout New Jersey so with that I'd like to offer Mr Henry as an expert both in uh civil engineering and to the extent we might need to get into planning testimony if there any questions in planning as the planner as well he's acceptable great thank you okay Mr Henry if you could just uh for the board when the plan itself if you could just go through the plan uh and what's being proposed as well as the changes over here as part of the settlement agreement the modifications we made to it the board can see what we've changed sure I'm going to start off with just marking this exhibit this is a sight plan rendering dated uh December 4th 2024 and I'll mark this should this be A1 or is this A1 is is that any different than the drawings attached to the amended stipulation of s the only difference is it's colorized okay great we got yes it's the same plan it's just a landscape plan overline we didn't change anything other than colorized it has no difference than what attached yes what is the sheet number that would be sheet number four so that's [Music] A1 and for the purposes uh of north south north is facing up on this page um so just to remind everyone the project is located the corner of Route 46 and New Road uh the the property is currently developed as a gas station and convenience store um we are looking to basically redevelop the property in order into a dunk of donuts Quick Serve restaurant uh reorienting the building and reducing the number of fueling pumps on the property from 6 to 4 and the building is going to be made a little bit smaller it's going to be reduced down to approximately 1475 Square ft um there's going to be the zero seats inside the building none of that's none of this has changed uh and the and the parking basically remained the same the couple of changes I just want to run through with the board I don't know if they you want any further kind of explanation of of what's going on on on the property if you want to do a little quick a little bit quicker I'm going to go through what changed compared to what was reviewed by the board the last time just kind of instead of going through every every last thing precise sorry be precise yes exactly so I'll go through each each item that that change so one of the things the board was concerned with was how the stacking would would operate with the drive-thru uh we did add uh quite a bit of U striping basically directing cars to oper or op rotate around the the gas station canopy to the North and the west and basically get aligned with the drive-through Lane so the cars ender off Route 46 there's there's basically there's directional arrows showing them to come around on the west side of the canopy and get aligned with the um the drive-through Lane we added a do not block the blocks which I think was a big concern of the board the last time so we added some additional striping in that area so that if there are cars ever in this area they know they know to basically circulate around and not block that area so that there's no circulation issues coming in and out of the site we also added uh a mountable curb on the new road driveway that wasn't previously proposed as well as a pedestrian access through the center uh we realigned how the the center of the um the island is set up to kind of provide a little bit wider uh turning room for the uh cars exiting the site we added directional signage near the end of the drive-thru to help uh for uh vehicle traffic to basically know to turn come around and get into the double drive-through stack we added we agreed with the neighbor to the South we're going to add a sign uh down by their driveway saying do not block the driveway to allow for her uh tenants to leave her site make sure got day to the board that was a request that came from their counil uh knowing we were coming back here they had asked us for uh that to be provided which we had done for that and then we added a sign which I believe was requested as far as alternate entrance on Route 46 East and we provided a sign right by the drive-through Lane so that everyone is aware of how to exit out to 46 East um and that was really the the summary of the changes that we made a lot of it goes into just kind of reorienting and making sure that Vehicles when they're circulating the site they properly align themselves and really do not prohibit the functionality of the new road driveway and I think the striping the signage adding the island is really going to help improve vehicle circulation around the site and it will be big Improvement to what was previously proposed uh in front of this board a few years ago and one other item Mr Andrew the retaining wall that has now been removed yes there was uh some discussion as far as a retaining wall down here here so what one thing that did change um back from what you reviewed a few years ago the rules the flood Hazard rules in New Jersey changed so we had to basically reanalyze and regrade this area from the original approval to basically comply with the new flood Hazard rules and we did that one of the things we had shown on the old plan on the plan that we presented that we had submitted we had shown a small retaining wall down here which we subsequently removed uh after that was brought up to us in question in regard to the retaining wall um you've removed that completely yes off the southernly property line yes could you please put your pointer sure I believe it was down in this area Okay um there was if I remember correctly there's a staircase going down to where the Rockway river is there is and that is still staying yes and the signage that you're providing uh for new road to prevent uh blocking the entrance or exit to that shopping center yeah not neighboring excuse me neighbor property yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's going to be it's not shown on this exhibit because it was requested not to show it but it's going to be down um just south of our property near the Southwest early corner of our property the request the request was to pay for the sign and if they requested to install it it's not actually part of this application but it's something my clients agreed to pay for the sign it your and if they want us to install it we'll install on their proper on their property had nothing to do with my client's property but it was just something that they wanted a piece of mine in case it were issues hopefully they'll be any that has a um traffic is quite heavy in that area from new New Road and getting onto Route 46 or even going straight through that's uh and her entrances are always blocked your neighbors entrances all right thank you thank you and and with that we have nothing further on this this is uh plan is consistent with the settlement agreement we have entered into and I would leave it to the board with any other questions in the public specially who are here tonight if they have any questions expect thank you I I do I do excuse me um that area floods very Heavenly Heavenly he heaven and um have you done anything to alleviate that on the that property at all with the Rockaway River being there there there's not well we can't fill the property because you're not allowed to per the DP rules so you're kind of you have to just make sure that you're not filling the property and making making flooding worse on other properties so there's not much we can do from a flooding perspective as far as changing that one thing that is I think it is Improvement um you know the impervious coverage is basically saying roughly the same so it's it's it's not like a much of a didn't I just hear you say that you did something to where the restaurant was going to be in the back you did uh yeah so we regraded in the area behind the behind the uh we we we had to do an analysis as far as the new so the new flooding rules for the flood Hazard basically change the flood zones in all New Jersey flal flood areas I don't know if you're familiar is anyone familiar with this no no so they basically raised flood zones 2 feet in New Jersey okay um so what we had to do was just reanalyze it make sure that we comply with the rules which one of the rules is basically we're not allowed to fill in the flood zone and we're not filling in the flood zone so we're not impacting you can prevent right say again you can prevent the water coming into our property no you have to let it come of your property yeah does that does that specific it doesn't flood very much so the flood the flood area actually I thought it would be worse with the two elevation of two foot this is not working very well but um it basically comes along um um and it really is mainly on the easterly side of the property this particular property is actually pretty high compared to all the other properties right and and Madam chairman I think one of the issues you questioned about was the retaining wall because of the changing in the grading due to the new regulation the retain wall is no longer necessary it's not it's not that it's creating any more and Henry testified to it any more ability for water to come on the property what it's doing is because of the grading itself it's just no longer a necessary improv of communicated in proper it flows better with with the hillside as it is so down where I live like I I when there's a flood I live by the beach you're allowed to fill in the flood zones and it doesn't impact anyone if you fill in the flood zones because you're dealing with the ocean here if we were to fill in the flood zone that water would have to go somewhere and likely it would go on someone else's property so the way the d looks at it is you're not allowed to fill in these flood zones to make your property better because it's going to negatively impact one of your gors any questions from the board of this witness no no good exactly just uh real quick currently there's is there already a sign there it says no left turn out of that side or is that's going to be put in that's a new sign that we're adding okay [Music] yep great thank you thank you anyone in the audience would like to come forward and ask this ask any questions of this witness of the testimony that he is given only we have nothing further uh we've asked that the board approve the settlement as as is in the plan that we we've agreed to so that we can start building a new improve been here in town and any questions of the board I guess I do have one question maybe maybe I'm unclear with the the driveway coming out onto new road is there there's going to be a no left turn there will be a no left turn sign plus we're adding in the U uh the mountable curve so that it'll direct the cars is there any chance getting a right turn only sign there we have that stried on the uh on the plant then we also have no left hand turn sign and we added so we three different things to try to make what what's to prevent somebody from coming out of that driveway and crossing the four lanes into the going to do stupidity right the sign but but with respect to your question that was one of the one of the changes we made to the plan which we hope believe the board appreciates which is the manable curve the manable Curve will create a nuisance for somebody to have to drive over if they want to do the left hand turn right now the way it's not a left-and turn it's just you just try somebody just coming out of that driveway is going to try and make a left turn at the 46 W so they would have to go over the mountable curve now to do that so we're angling them toward to the right going they're going to be limited just to be able to go into the right correct more more more than more than the signage this curb is going to be in deterr because they're going to they're gonna have a big bump when make they try to make a left tangent I think you're kind of talking about shooting straight across to the to the lanes that take you left on a 46 West right yeah so you so with the way you do this you're coming into the right lane you go right or straight you have to go across 46 and work your way back up correct yeah and a certain point that we can't control anything that happens once yeah mean people turns out there regardless some Hazard he going to avoid whatever but but to address your your concern that's what why we have a thank you for the clarification thank you okay okay anyone would like to uh sure I think after long negotiation and and uh Goodwill on both parts the board and the the tenant I think they've done the necessary uh adjustments for I thought it was a good project before I think it's a better one now and I'll be voting for it go ahead with the application 20 col 54 Danny realy 25 46 block 770 Lot 1 Zone B-2 issue again uh preliminary and final whatever the variance is required as for the plan they submitted anything else revised plans they submitted and uh negotiated with the board in accordance with the term set forth in the amended conditional stipulation of settlement correct yeah said second Jos it's legally correct burit yes Josh yes mazarella yes Quinn yes ready yes willing yep brani yes okay I'd like to thank this board and those that that before you or some of you are newer faces here for all the time you spent on this application we hope you're going to really enjoy this this this project here but really the time we spent the interest the questions and I do believe it's a good plan that you're going to be very happy with Mr Johnson's time as well and going through all of this he's been a real gentleman to work with and work through all of this is greatly appreciated and Miss Jolie is always in our help and assisting organizing we wish you you know wish you well good happy holidays everybody but really thank you very much for the time SP on this my client is greatly good luck thank [Music] you 24 you ready let's go Application 2458 United Methodist Church 903 clck road block 764 lot 35 Zone R-1 RW a c Varian to construct a freestanding sign I already there is a sign excuse me I believe there is a sign already there there is um good evening uh Lelo for Murphy sh and wils on behalf the applicant I apologize uh got a little called up coming from another meeting uh so I apologize for uh wasting a little bit of the board's time tonight uh on on getting here late uh the applicant um is proposing to change the current sign uh at the Methodist Church uh those of you who might be uh familiar with the sign it is um currently set back uh quite a bit quite ways from the roadway uh the monument side sort of parallel with the road uh somewhat difficult to see so the is proposing to place the sign a little closer to the road uh perpendicularly to the roadway so the traffic going down uh backp down South for M Grog and uh more readily view the sign um we have a witness tonight uh from the company who designed and uh will install the sign uh who will present testimony GI specific uh but there are some variances associated with that sign um it is a residential zone so the S putting you the sign overall um is a little bit larger um than you would have in a residential Zone by Design um those signs are limited uh in size typically in in the residential Zone uh in addition there's a portion of the side of backlit uh which is uh also a variance uh you based some on reports from your your board experts um there will be um some uh up lighting ground lighting spotlights somewhat uh on signs uh lower portions of the sign as well terms of setbacks um those those will be met um uh we have tonight um Mr Jeff Packard um from the company that will instol the sign who can provide testimony and specifics [Music] uh is the old sign to be removed the old sign is to be your move yes it doesn't show plan that's sorry no I go through the area it is a very good visible sign the um yeah the the so and we'll go through the details of it but the the new sign will be closer to the roadway no current one than the current one current one also looks good because there's a curve there and I see it is it is you know it's a viewable I mean yeah cuz there is the not like exactly coming on the roadway but you can see is a looking sign it is it is a it is a nice looking side ma does Max in front of the chur very well um I think the the goal was a little B more visibility but um I will call U Mr Packer as our as our witness uh evening and he will uh give us the details um provide some uh testimony for the board uh we won't have any exhibits mark this evening because uh everything that you will see uh all that will be discussed um is already in in the package that we set so uh Jeff if you want to come sit [Music] here um can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testim you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do say your name spell your last please um name is Jeffrey Packard p a CK a Rd just like the car but don't have one which it do don't make them anymore do they the um the church uh came to me oh first of all I want to clarify um we're the manufacturer of the sign um I myself I'm based out of Pittsburgh the sign actually would be manufactured in one of our plants in Buffalo New York and it would be installed by a local installing contractor just as a clarification in terms of the uh of the sign itself and and Mr P um to that point to correct me uh as well um can you just get tell us the name of your company uh and how you're associated with the application I know you just uh did but it's a little more detail uh the name of your company is well the name is pack sign fixture and media systems and we're again we're we have multiple plants around we have over 300 manufacturing personnel and excuse me my alarm um we have over 300 manufacturing Personnel but uh this particular sign again would be built in Buffalo New York and installed by a local contractor I'm out and and your company uh produced the uh produced The U schematics of the sign uh that was presented to the board and that you have a FR right it was it was developed this project started I believe maybe even two years ago and uh at that time the church came to us and asked us for recommendations for the sign that would be an upgrade to what they currently have I believe the sign that they have though it may be nice in some regards it's uh it is a sign has been there I understand 30 40 50 years I think it's I think they've probably got their their uh their money out of it at this point but they're looking for something that would be a little bit more functional uh a more attractive than the design that we came up with was trying to work within the uh you know to keep the Aesthetics you know within the the neighborhood that they have without being disturbing in any way this sign has a lighted portion at the top you probably seen this drawing but if you'll see this this sign this is the only part that's actually internally illuminated I know that's part of the variance but that actually is black and the only part that actually lights which is internal and the LED lighting is with the with the cross and the white letters so actually the only thing that would actually be seen that would be lit are those letters and the cross itself so even though it's in turn illuminated it is very modest you know in terms of lighting it with LED lighting if you actually stand in front of the sign you actually can't even see your Shadow so it's not like something that would you know shine in somebody's window or anything of of that nature uh the the bottom three panels um are nonilluminated they are um actually let me something I just I had excuse me one second pour out of there this is in essence a miniature of what's happening on the bottom panels This is what they call a snaplock frame okay and so it's an aluminum frame system and so that's what you're seeing here those bottom three panels so it's not illuminated and it just has a printed portion that's inside okay so what they had decided was they they have a understand you have the other Church gospel Presbyterian Church is also a tenant of your church and um and then they wanted a section where they could change uh if if need be okay so it's not like something they have it's not like you know like a lot of the signs you see for churches where you put the letters in you can change it every day that's not what this is set up this is set up where if they want to make a change they've got to go get something printed it's not something they're going to do very often because that would be even even though it's relatively easy to change it's not that easy to order and and to you know to have it change so that was what they wanted this was what the the church felt was was effective for their uses and uh and so and those those three panels would be in essence lit by ground lighting and so that's that's a low intensity 25 watt lighting system so it basically would just light the those little the faces of the bottom and that's how it works okay uh you're asking for some variances here because of the size of the sign and a number of other things uh I understand your testimony about the sign but can you justify why you need these variances and and um just so the board is is aware Mr P is not a professional planner but he will testify as to uh the need for the the the signs of the sign based on the visibility of the letter um by exped make sure the rec was clear he's not actually a professional letter okay my me c s will any of your Witnesses help us understand why we having such a large sign to be approved with variances required sure Mr peger is our only witness this evening but he will uh provide testimony uh regarding um visibility and and the need for size of the the side based on the speed of the the roadway and the visibility um exactly my question is the roadway is not straight it is a curve bending and in the snow time people get reflection or something what is the impact to the people on coming in the road well it wouldn't have any impact on on the road again it's uh we already stated the the only actual lighting internal lighting is is those white letters and the Red Cross how how effective it is to the driver like it's it's effective enough so you can see it but it's not it's not effective enough to bother anybody let's put it that way in other words it's not going to shine in somebody's window it is it is very modest okay in other words a typical sign and again whole different can of worms okay but let's just say the Dunkin Donuts you just had okay that sign would in different Zone we understand different sign but that would have been a totally backlit sign where the entire sign in fact lights okay this sign doesn't do any of those things it does almost the the absolute minimum to actually be seen but not beyond that in terms of the actual size of the sign okay one of the things uh that is important okay again for traffic if nothing else okay just for safety purposes okay you have to have it large enough at least so you can understand what you're seeing because there have been some uh traffic studies that have been done by Penn State University which has shown you know causation of of signs that are actually too small okay so where people are looking to to drive in and they they can't okay and you know this is appropriate for the size of the sign and the distance that they can actually see you take a look at like this the top header where it says caripan that that's a um that whole section there is u 2 fo5 on on the lower portion of the Cross okay and you take a look at that so that's the about 30 in high so that letter is about 8 Ines High par I'm guessing Okay so with an 8 inch high letter we know how far that 8 in letter can actually be read which is in this case uh can be read 400 ft ideal conditions can be read 400 ft I'm not sure what the traffic speed is there does anybody I don't know how how what the traff speed is I'm not sure how fast people really drive suppos to be 25 yeah we we went through this and I said I used to live on South B Road and I couldn't even tell you what the speed limit is although there is that sharp Bend in the roadway there well I'm not sure about the 400 feet or any of that but I do know that that the letter P in parcion okay could be seen for four about 400 feet and the time when you could see it to the time you pass it is only 10.9 seconds that's that's the reality of what that is okay so you're you're here because you want variances our our board's function is to hear the case and make a decision whether or Grant the variances or not the church has been a wonderful resident of the Town great neighbors serve a community very very well okay my concern is you're asking for a sign that far exceeds current zoning in height and total surface I haven't heard why we should approve that why you need that large of a sign nobody's told me that yet to my satisfaction I I I hear your testimony about your sign how nice it is I want to know why we need such a large sign here well the alternative would be a smaller sign and then you actually couldn't see the letters and then therefore it would actually be a a safety concern if you can't see we're saying we can't see the current sign excuse me your testimony is that people can't see the current sign I can't tell you if they can see I'm not I can't tell you if they can or if they can't you or how it's actually built so I I could I couldn't specify that I could tell you what this is though okay I have a question sorry well I I I still have not had testimony as to why this size sign is needed why I should be feeling real good about proving this we want to we want to help a good neighbor and a resident and serving our public but we also have to enfor and look at our zoning this thing is exceeding our current requirements and regulations quite excessively double in size and height so I I believe the ex the existing sign is similarly sized in terms of square footage uh to what is being proposed the difference between the signs is is number one is location um location of the current sign is you know set back and and parallel to the roadway this will make it perpendicular to the roadway so people going north and south um can actually see the sign as opposed to having to wait to get by it and turn their head to see it um the size one minute on that's just same size why not just move the current sign up AP so the current the current sign is I mean by my memory and I don't want to date myself but it's got to be at least there for about 40 years it's also Monument sign built on that brick foundation so it's not practical to move this sign um but will be the existing sign uh this will be similarly size it will be up uh elevated a little bit more will be actually on the roadway which um was a designed choice because it is going to be closer to the roadway although performing with the setback that that was my question how how close to the roadway I I see this sign presently that you have in the picture how close is that the new sign going to be placed near the roadway so it'll it'll be placed more than the 10t setback whether it's 12T or 15 ft I think would be is the final you don't need a variance for where you located yeah for setb okay the final determination I think will be based on the logistics of pulling the electrical lines so is the testimony that the light won't affect anybody and that the sawing is not in any sight lines for cars pulling out or driving it's just moved up from where it is and it's just bigger than it was and it's lit when it wasn't lit before but the lighting will not affect anybody um I think I think the the attorney has indicated the sign is about the same size as the current sign even though the the orientation is different okay yeah okay and also the uh the new sign the lighting are you going to have it on 24 hours are you going to be shutting it off because there are homes across the street sure this the S the applicant you did say you could see it within 400 ft did I hear you say that that's correct the letter P okay the other letters are smaller but regardless of that okay um I I think they talking about the flood lights you yeah the flood lights certainly and you know on behalf of the applicant if the board looked favorably on the application the flood light certainly could be shut off in the evening uh you know time to shut off in the um you know the after 10 after 11 time where you're you don't want that uh visibility what are the timings of the center the the mass times for or the yeah what what timings are the open and close business um Church open 247 at 11 you agree to sh them off by dead is this until dawn from 10: p.m. until dawn I just want to make sure is this front and back the sign on both sides or is just one side no it's double side dou so it's coming from both okay there's two signs currently on the property the old one's gone the old one the church Chinese Church sign is gone that's already gone so there will be only one sign assuming this is approved yes okay Mr Willams has your answer been has your question answered or you still have some concerns we can move on I don't think I have an answer and and I would just say too this is a residential Zone and obviously not a residential use so residential zone signs you tend to be smaller uh in nature than uh you know a use such as this church use where you although typically you have people that know where they're going to you know other services that that you have um other groups that attend uh you know use the space Scouts groups that type of thing might not be as familiar with it um you know it does add visibility for for those uses I I I guess to follow up on Mr Will's question is it possible just to make the sign small enough to fit into that to what the the requirement is I mean are we would we be losing that much effect of the sign if it was so so it would be 20 well 20 square fet is what is permitted in the zone I'll let the Mr P testify as to the issue there well if it were 20 square ft okay that would be a let's just say 4 foot high by 5 foot wide or or whatever that that might be if if you took the same information that they currently have and you brought it down to those those Dimensions you you couldn't read it you might you might read maybe um let me ask you a question in terms of sign you got a panel on signed on this diagram illustration is there any real reason that that needs to be there which will then take the sign almost down to um compliance I'm I'm sorry I'm misst understand say there's three panel to show well I think one of them is the other Church the gospel Presbyterian Church which is one that shown is TBD be decided I'm not sure the TBD is that's where they were going to put their their changeable message of this we just showed you they could change all of these but this is what that was okay so that that is if they have candlelight service you know something of that nature that's what they would be putting in there I assume like like change message I don't know but we can pretty we can pretty much something that would be related to to the church and something that uh would the church consider maybe eliminating that so that you do bring the sign down a little bit I think that's what some of the concern is wait me eliminating all of it no no no no no just having two panels instead of three take the TBD sign that's well that that's up to that's up to the church that's why we're asking yes so well you'll have to be SW in have the but if you tell I can tell you okay on behalf of the trustees would you stand up please you have to be swor in this um just stand up and we'll just swear in okay she was going to tell me but we'll swear in um here I'll move side we need to make sure the microphone is picking me up that's I will move aside okay can you raise your right hand please just swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do can you state your name by your last name and tell us your relationship to the applicant Amy grip gri i p and I'm the uh chairperson of the Board of Trustees for par United Methodist Church great you can sit down um so Our intention with this sign was to try and clean up the front of our property and eliminate the current signs that we have so right now the gospel Presbyterian church had a sign there as well until it fell apart um so we would like to give them an opportunity to have their service hours and Etc their their uh pastor's name on our sign the third panel was to give us the opportunity for our events for the church so like our roast beef dinner our candl light service um our Easter Service and that we were hoping would eliminate the uh need to if you've ever driven past our church we've had you know flag banners stuck there to announce those things again this would be a cleaner way to do that and less distracting we're hoping you know just just clean it all up in front and make it much nicer looking that was the goal with this sign and some of the examples of of those sort of temporary TVD inserts are are in the application uh packet as well but but ultimately they communicate exactly what the applicant is communicating is they you know meant to be uh temporary in nature to announce more special events I I think I think you actually for me you answered what was asked by Mr ws and I think this is a Nob brainer the replacement of our sign it's it's actually 60 years old it's the original sign for the building when it was built in 1965 I believe um it no the light does no longer work um and it does have those replaceable letters we don't have enough volunteers to constantly replace the letters to announce what we're doing and then you can't really see it because it's not lit so this was to address a lot of problem so you need you need a new sign we agree yeah great yes we do and we finally raised enough money to get it so oh that's important too yeah that was the answer I was looking for yeah okay any questions from the board with this uh either M scrip or signage questions is there anyone in the audience that would like to come forward and ask questions of either Miss grip or gentleman from the signage company see no one someone like to ter well I I I guess you know my questions were again our job grinding variances so now that I hear that the propos sign is not much different in size the current sign I agree you certainly need a new sign certainly been good neighbors it' be good to be able to publicize your activities enough so you'll have a permanent place to do that rather than have banners out all the time that's another and so I think I'll be voting in favor of this application great application 24 colum 58 United Methodist Church 903 South dewick Road Block 764 lot 35 Zone R-1 RW recommend granting a SE variant to tr a freestanding sign second yes J yes yes Quin yes yes yep yes thank you very much thank you Bor very much the congregation will be thrilled we appreciate you guys prise the Lord Mery Chris say to kind of Kake for [Music] me motion toj I like that yes second did you ask that Mr chairman no but you can no somebody made it [Music] okay have a good week