[Music] [Music] oh [Music] yeah he told me [Music] [Music] know [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] good [Music] [Music] [Music] m [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] oh you don't want to be you don't want to be on defense against the guy in the courtroom and tell you that cool call them in the order please we can stand for a moment of silence and the Pledge of [Music] Allegiance Pledge Allegiance flag flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all he Madam clerk if we could have the roll call please Mr Jamie gerardi here Mr Derek pet here Mr Jonathan Moody here Mr Chris P here Mr Richard Canelo here and chairman Charles Gray here thank you and the proof of publication please the items were advertised in the Tampa Bay Times on February 7th 20124 February 21st 2024 and March 6 2024 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings all right thank you and could we have a uh motion to approve minutes motion to approve the minutes from the January 4th meeting second have a motion in a second any further discussion all in favor signify by saying I I I H like sign carries okay I'd like to welcome everybody today we're uh Pasco planning Pasco County Planning Commission we meet uh twice monthly we serve as a local planning agency and we hold public hearings to transmit to the board of County Commissioners our recommendations on compr comprehensive plan amendments Land Development code amendments resoning and conditional use requests Planning Commission is the final decision making body for special exceptions certain appeals variance requests and certain alternative standard requests however final decisions may be appealed to the board of County Commissioners if anyone has an oppos opposition to any comprehensive plan Amendment development code Amendment resoning conditional use or any item where the Planning Commission makes a recommendation to the board of County Commissioners it will be important for you to attend the appropriate board County Commission meeting for those of you who are not familiar with the format of our meetings there are three sections we have continuances um those are uh items that uh have been requested by the staff or the applicant to be continued for any number of reasons it's been our custom to approve those requests unless they're extenuating circumstances we have consent items and those are items that where we have not had any feedback from uh the public or the staff in opposition and those items will go through those one at a time if there's anything on continuance that you'd like to have pulled and heard today please raise your hand as when we call those out we'll pull them from the consent items and they'll be heard on the regular schedule and the the last one being the regular items those are the items will be fully vetted and we'll hear presentation from the applicant and we'll have requests or response uh questions from the audience um applicants will have 5 minutes uh to make their presentation um citizens will have 3 minutes to ask ask questions about the application and then the applicant will have time to to respond to those questions um or anyone who has requested in writing at least 24 hours ahead of this meeting for additional time that time may be granted I think we had a couple of those have Mr chair yes we have uh two two Grant uh granting of additional time for item P1 okay thank you um before we start the meeting um by the way anyone who has a phone probably most of you do please put it on the silent position so we don't interrupt somebody when they're speaking and before we start the meeting we' like to open the meeting for anyone who's here to speak of something that is not on today's agenda is there anyone here wants to speak on something is not on today's agenda yes yes Mr carala please come Mike carala County Administrator um I just wanted to take a moment Mr chair just to thank the Planning Commission publicly for the service that you guys provide to our community sitting on a local planning agency is a it's it's a volunteer initiative you're all busy professionals and you take the time out of your schedule to really look and help make recommendations back to the body of the board of the county commissioner so I just want to say thank you for that thank you too for the for the staff and the work that they put together to to pull this to educate you educate the public and then educate our board on on making these critical decisions that are important for our counties and I guess thank you too for the professionals and the public that are here too in participating in the process it's representative democracy at its finest and I'm sitting in the back too to check on the progress of our new planning director to make sure that things are going well I just again I thank you I just wanted to say thank you publicly uh to all of you for for doing this work it is truly Yen's work and and again it's it's not lost on us so thank you thank you Mike appreciate that we don't get many compliments so we appreciate take them when we can get them that's right okay so I guess Mr I I'd like to mention for the record that there were two um people that signed up to speak in public comment um one was Brett sharber and the other was Gary Blackman and none of the two are on WebEx but I just wanted to mention that for the record okay and they're not present they are not virtually present you could check to see if they're physically present but they're not virtually present okay Denise say throughout the whole meeting is there any anybody that's registered to speak on WebEx besides those yes okay so there are other items where we do have to check WebEx we do have to check WebEx um however there is no one on that's that was registered that is on other than an applicant's representative who is on WebEx at this exact moment in time and one of the folks that did ask to speak is actually physically present because she's signed in okay okay either those two names that we call out are they present physically I guess they're not okay so I guess good afternoon Planning Commission members Denise Hernandez Planning and Development we're going to start with item PC2 which is Peg 24777 zoning Amendment under the name of names of Thomas Lee and Kimberly and samic the request is to continue the item to the May 2nd 2024 Planning Commission meeting at 1:30 in dat City all right next one is the applicant present anyone here to object okay go ahead following item is PC3 that's p24 7712 a zoning amendment in the name of KD 52 mpud master plan unit development Mand co- liquidating company LLC and others the request is to continue the item to the April 4th 2024 Planning Commission meeting at 1:30 in Dade City okay it's the applicant present anyone here to object okay item pc4 is Peg 24179 it's a comprehensive plan Amendment C pass 2324 Diagonal Road Business Park the request is to continue the item to a date uncertain all right is that applicant present anyone here to object and on that item you'll be sitting as the LPA as the local planning agency okay all right and that is the end of the continuance items okay do I have a motion please motion to continue items PC2 to May 2nd Date City PC3 to April 4th date City and pc4 to dat date uncertain second Motion in second all in favor signify by saying I I I oppos like sign okay following item is pc5 it's a special exception Peg 24776 7 hope Youth Ranch Inc hope Youth Ranch it's for a special exception for a private school in an R2 low density residential district on this item there are several exp parte uh Communications um with all Planning Commission members that included a Transportation analysis um also there were phone calls with Mr Chuck gray Mr Derek pontet and if anyone else had a phone call would you please state it on the record um on this item there is a modification and all those uh Communications have been sent to the clerk's office uh there's also a modification to condition of approval number one which adds that the um special exception is for a maximum of 60 special needs students so it clarifies that these are special needs students and then there is a the addition of condition of approval number two which is Vehicles shall not Quee or park on East Road those modifications were sent to the Planning Commission members and they were also sent to the to the clerk's office so it comes to you with recommendation of conditions of approval with conditions as stated all right Mr chair would you pull that and vote on it separately I have a conflict I'm engineer on the project okay so it's going to stay on consent okay did you ask did you ask for the public comment yet yeah I haven't yet but I I was going to ask you does that need to be pulled or you can keep it on consent as long as you vote on it separately yeah that's fine so that I think you have another item that's going to require the same thing so okay you might want to just handle all your consent items individually okay to make it easier all right but you still need to ask if there's public here to speak on five Okay so on pc5 is there is the applicant present anyone here to object see no one okay um vote individually so let's vote on this one motion to approve I'll second motion a second further discussion and that includes the Amendments that M Fernandez read into the record yes okay the two additional conditions all in favor signify by saying I I oppos like sign okay did you want to do as roll call or just to prove he already said let the record reflect that I did not vote stand so move on to item pc6 that's Peg 7771 it's a zoning amendment in the names of Douglas and Kelly midling for a change in zoning from an AC agricultural District to an AR agricultural residential district comes you with with a recommendation of approval okay okay is the applicant present anyone here to object I see no objections motion to approve pc6 second have a motion to Second any further discussion if not all in favor signify by saying i i o like sign following item is pc7 that is Peg 24776 3 to zoning Amendment the names of Sandra Marie Brown Stephanie F and Dereck L pontet it's for a change in zoning from an AC agricultural District to an R4 high density residential district comes to you with a recommendation of approval there is an expart communication um on this matter with Mr John Moody and obviously I'll have to abstain from this one and that was um the expar was uh provided to the clerk's office okay so is that applicant present anyone here to object see no objections there a motion motion to approve pc7 a second and a second yep all in favor signify by saying I I like sign also let the record reflect that Mr Pontas did not vote on this item correct let's thank Mr pets for doing 60 foot wide Lots said 40s item PC8 is Peg 24772 it's a zoning Amendment the name of ano River Resort mpud master plan unit development it's a substantial modification to the anlo River Resort um under ankot River Resort LLC it's from uh to to go from AR agricultural residential district to an mpud master plan unit development District to incorporate 2.57 acres to the existing anoat River Resort MP comes here with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agema packet all right is the applicant present anyone here to object see no objections there motion motion to approve second have a motion and second any further discussion if not all all in favor signify by saying I I I oos like sign following item is pc9 it's peg2 24 cu13 it's for it's a conditional use the name of Word of Life Fellowship Word of Life Group living Arrangement it's for a group living arrangement in an AC agricultural District comes you with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet okay is that applicant present anyone here to object see no objections move to approve item pc9 second we have a motion and second any further conversations not all in favor signify by saying I I I oos like sign Mr chair we're going to move on to item P1 because pc10 is going to require a a um an actual presentation and with respect to the folks who are here for item P11 we'll do P1 first and that will be presented to you by Orlando Boris and on that one there are several expart Communications with all Commissioners uh there's separate expart communication with commission Mariano um and all of those expart Communications have been present have been supplied to the clerk's office and thank you you thank you speak good afternoon this is Orlando baras with uh planning and economic growth Department um I'll be presenting peg2 24 7733 blackw mpud this is a zoning Amendment from an AR an AC District to an mpud allowing 321 single family detach units approximately on uh 107 acres and it's located north of Hudson Avenue and east of corway and Hazel Avenue this is going to be the side location which is going to be on the west side of the county this is going to be the AAL map uh also location map for us and this is going to be the context map and this is a very interesting one I want to show here uh real quick uh we have Hudson Avenue to the south of this subject property and then we also have Avenue and Cobra way the applicant will be extending the sidewalk um from hael Avenue all the way to COBRA way and as you can see there's going to be uh three schools over here in the area and this is going to be the subject property this is going to be be the covering zoning districts already mentioned about I mean before and then the future land use which is going to be um rest three for the property and then the uh applicant is requesting the following variation which is going to be from LDC 96.1 Point d11 Street access to adjoining property I'm going to go real quick to the master plan to show where is going to be this variation requested right over here this is going to be um Edward Road Edwards Road is not up to County standards and uh therefore uh it makes sense for an emergency access which Peg is is in full support as you can see this is also the master plan non-binding concept plan and it comes with a recommendation of approval to the BCC okay all right any questions questions all right so is the applicant present good afternoon Cammy Corbett with the law firm of Hill Ward and Henderson representing the applicant Meritage Homes and I do have a brief PowerPoint presentation if we could bring that up and if someone do I just pick the forward button gives me forward okay is this the application where we have request for additional time this is the yes this is the application where we have requests for additional time uh the applicant has been granted 9 Minutes of time for rebuttal correct so I'm going to try to use my time very expeditiously here on the on the brief the main presentation and I know uh we have a requested extra time for rebuttal but we won't take it if we don't need it so just briefly Meritage Homes is the applicant they are one of the fifth largest home builders in the United States uh they are their target market is really uh first-time home buyers and startups they're important segment of our market for our Working Families and they're industry leader in Energy Efficiency they've also won several Awards uh for cons uh customer service and for being a good home builder and a good Community partner and that's what we bring here today a project that we're trying to be a good Community partner uh you'll hear that we are fully compliant with the bard of County Commissioner's PM 26 memo we actually filed our application before that memo with regarding the lot standards and Architectural standards was required but we are uh presenting to you an applic that is fully compliant with that standard again this is the project location which you've seen what you see in the circles here are existing PDS in the surrounding area and you'll see that we're sort of in a doughnut hole here there's development to our East and there's development to our West and uh on this map you'll see um the Palm winds uh mpud on the south east corner those are 40 foot Lots there so much smaller lots and that is approved future land use Is Res 3 uh this is designated for Suburban development this is not designated in your comprehensive plan for Rural Development uh project details Orlando is already covered uh this is our concept plan this was our original concept plan that we submitted originally uh we had smaller buffers uh we had our parks in a different location we were not showing any access to Hazel Avenue uh during our initial application we knew from our sellers one of our sellers Mr Porter uh knew that there would be some resistance to vehicular access onto Hazel and so we did not initially provide that however we did agree that we would provide a sidewalk and we would construct a sidewalk along Hazel Avenue to provide a pedestrian connection to the school to the West uh however after consultation with some of the neighbors we had a neighborhood meeting it was quite Lively there were some people there that made it clear that no matter what we did or what we did for buffers or anything that we could do they didn't want us to develop here they wanted this to say they and Rural however we had several people who were very thoughtful and considerate and spent a lot of time with us and we spent a lot of time with them uh talking over their concerns and so this is our uh concept plan now where we have enhanced the buffers including an 80 foot buffer along that Northwest Corridor uh we did relocate our Parks uh we are actually showing a full access to Hazel Avenue because during the staff review uh it was determined that staff felt that was necessary for us to comply with the Land Development code so we are showing a vehicular access onto Hazel I expect you're going to hear something about that some of the expar uh forms that have already been submitted Express concern about full vehicular access there that is not something that we asked for or that we're seeking so if it were to move forward without that that would be acceptable to us but we do again want to comply with what the county is asking of us and so we have provided it just uh some more images of the enhanced uh landscape buffering that we have offered and these are part of the conditions encapsulated into buffers and condition n and then again the Hazel Avenue sidewalk to the Hudson schools that's something we're providing including uh the crosswalk uh to get away get across to an existing sidewalk um here's some architectural renderings of of what we're doing and how we're going to be complying with that PM 26 standard we are going to have the larger 55 ft Lots around the perimeter and the smaller 45 ft Lots in interior um and we are providing those 7 and 1/2 foot sidey yards this is our amenity Center and our open space and then again our key points is we've been been found consistent and compatible with the surrounding area uh we again have the larger Lots on the perimeter we're providing um okay just one full compliance with PM 26 and I think I've already pretty much covered this so um we're here to answer any questions should you have any and again we'd like to reserve time for rebuttal all right um have any questions I just I didn't look through the conditions of approval but that sidewalk with the uh where is that located which condition is that with the crosswalk located in conditions I just circle 24 24 thank you so I do one question chair so I understand from your testimony that you the applicant I guess doesn't care about the connection to Hazel or that you could take it or leave it is what I'm take it or you're you're you're okay either way correct is your commitment to put the sidewalk on Hazel contingent on you having access to Hazel or are you willing to do the sidewalk regardless sidewalk regardless yes that is correct so presumably if so what you're talking about is you just wouldn't have the vehicular vehicular access but you still at a minimum want sidewalk access we would keep condition 24 related to the sidewalk yes we would want pedestrian we we want to preserve the we commit made that commitment that we would do the uh The Pedestrian connection and people did appreciate that pedestrian connection and the construction of that sidewalk we want to retain that condition regardless of what you do with the full access vehicular access on vehicular access went away then you would but you still you still have a sidewalk going into your project is that correct okay and is that a sidewalk on both sides of the street or just one just one okay and then 24b indicates that the County engineer May determine that there isn't sufficient right of way to accommodate a sidewalk and that if that's the case that any requirement you'll have no further obligations to construct any Hazel Avenue improvements if that's determined to be the case correct that was the that was the condition that we negotiated with with staff and in on consultation with staff because we haven't gone out there and done full engineering yet we think that there's right away there is there are dedications to right away along the way the County's been maintaining that right away we feel reasonably confident that we are going to have the right away but what we don't want to do is have a condition that is impossible to comply with is it an issue of that there's not right of way or that there's not s sufficiently wide right of way again we still believe that there is sufficiently wide right away we just don't want to be in a position agreeing today at a zoning when we all get in the field and the County engineer is the one that's going to control this determination we don't get to come to the County engineer and say oh we don't you know it's going to we don't think it works they don't we don't get to say that the County engineer gets gets a say in that and makes a joint determination okay yes there's a barrier here that we all didn't realize was there at the time that we agreed to the condition okay so then what happens it doesn't get built correct okay and then how the kids walk to school we are building uh sidewalks in front of our project along Hudson um but then they've got to walk in a ditch there's a condition to put a 10 isn't it a 10 foot wide sidewalk along Hudson Avenue yes 10 foot yeah 10 foot wide sidewalk along Hudson Avenue think basically what your concern was is that you didn't want to go out and have to acquire right away right I mean and it's essentially it's I think it's less it's more of the practicality of it we believe we have looked at it our traffic engineer has looked at it I believe the county staff has looked at it and everyone is of the belief that this is possible and practical and that's why we put it as a condition but we also didn't want to be in a position where everyone including the County engineer agrees that there's some physical barrier that we weren't aware of that would make it impossible to fulfill the condition okay and that was the nature I I think you might have misunderstood my question you're concerned that there may be a physical barrier to you constructing a sidewalk not a legal one when I looked at the map it appeared that the last the eastern most Terminus of Hazel Avenue might have been easement rather than right of way which a couple lots to the West it was all clear right and it's and it's reserved for public RightWay but yes if there's some kind of physical challenge to it I would also add that the condition allows the County engineer to Grant design modification so presumably even if there's a physical barrier there may be a way to build the sidewalk around the barrier correct or a legal impediment I mean he can approve a nonstandard sidewalk basically if necessary understood okay I think the concern is there and I looked at the street view there's open drainage there's drainage ditches on both sides of the road so would there be adequate drainage if they were to and I'm a sidewalk but I think a sidewalk is considered to be a safety Improvement by the Water Management District so one wouldn't need to provide additional storm water and you have good soils in that area so and if I our civil engineer Joe Simo from W is also here so if there are specific technical questions he's probably the most appropriate party to answer those questions for you so if you'd like me to call him up I'm happy to do so okay well no I just want to understand okay yeah why don't we see what any questions are from the audience and we'll Mr chair I had one more question I'm sorry you have another one yeah condition 29 uh 24a the 225th dwelling unit I'd like that change because there's going to be kids walking if we wait to the 225th dwelling unit they'll have kids that are in the development in the houses and having to walk is that that same condition yeah it's yeah 24a 24 sub a so that represents 60% of the allowable units 225 yeah so what would you like it to be what would be I don't know what standard I would thinking like 50 or what do we usually do on that David I don't know if there is a standard I mean it it probably differs by each MPD depending on okay the need for the Improvement yeah so I mean I don't know whether this are these kids close enough that I assume that they wouldn't be bossed is that accurate right they'll be walking um and there's no sidewalks on Hudson currently there is no on Hudson but there yes on the uh west side of Cobra way I guess my question to you is is there another way for these kids to walk to school in the absence of the sidewalk they'd be walking in the grass the grass of Hazel or and then crossing the street of crober way but this applies to the sidewalk on Hazel is there any cap or units minimum number of units to be developed before the sidewalk along Hudson Avenue is constructed no that is but I don't think the Hudson Avenue one's going to get all the way to the school I believe they're only constructing it in front of their right project there's there's no sidewalk so it's not it's not going to help Richard's concern yeah eventually when the County comes and does the r of Hudson it might but the immediate concern will be dealt with by Hazel I can certainly speak with my client and we can see if we can why don't you do that the process respond to that when you come back up sure we've had a couple unfortunate accidents with students I understand and versus cars understand that's all that's it all right thank you okay who was first on the list first on the list is Mr Clinton wi Mr wi Clinton wi okay we'll call the next person cler [Music] Blackwell good afternoon ladies and gentlemen uh I've lived on Patrick ABS since sir can name and address for the record yeah sorry name and address for the record please William chromer 1098 Patrick Avenue Hudson Florida thank you you been sworn excuse me have you been sworn I think we probably need to everybody in that was a test yeah you passed anybody that plans to give a testimony today if you'll stand and be sworn right now [Music] do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give is the true self you got thank you all right let's start again so ladies and Gentlemen We can't stop this building going on behind us but 40 of those acres are all surrounded by two to five acre lots they come in and they subdivide it put three acres on a three houses on an acre she has a good selling point but it's not her backyard she doesn't have to drive out of there every day in and out or her husband or her children so as far as the traffic goes there's there's options you could put a road in from Hudson High School parking lot right out to the recreational center on Hicks Road just like you did for 5A out to Little Road that's available you would alleviate the pressure off of Cobra way you'd have the people from the East and the South have more choices you could put passing Lanes in on Hudson Avenue on the right hand side of Cobra way going east so if you're heading east from Hicks Road you would put a bypass lane in for the people waiting to turn left on the Cobra way instead of a 15 mph speed limit sign that did nothing but bro and make more traffic leaving Cobra away from Hudson High School you can put a turn lane in for turnning right the Lots still empty and available and for sale and I think the people in Hudson Florida are willing to give you our tax money you can purchase some property and put that road in going to the rec center and while you're at doing that you can also fix the road in front of the rec center because if you ever drove down there at nighttime God forbid there's a car or a kid out there because it's it's not maintained you need to maintain it these are other routes so if this lady wants to put in 320 houses in my backyard then she needs to find other routes for the traffic the other routes are available and us as taxpayers will allow you to spend our money on something useful and that's useful we don't need another road coming another Development coming down Hazel it just makes it a shortcut there's kids on both sides of the road it's always been residential agricultural kids are on four-wheelers kids are on horses kids are walking dogs they're out at night we don't need that extra traffic I don't want it I don't think anyone else that lives in the areal on sit so and then you also have I said my part I can ask you question any questions so your position on vehicular traffic on Hazel is clear but how do you feel about the sidewalk on Hazel I feel fine about the sidewalk that that's fine but as far as traffic motor vehicle traffic there's too much now if if you don't cut in front of these children and kids and not just the children but the adults bringing and taking children from the school you can wait at Hazel and Cobra for 15 20 minutes three or four times a day I've been dealing with it since the 80s it needed P from from Hudson Avenue Cobra way from Hudson Avenue to the high school needed Paving for 35 years it took him two days to pave it but it took him 35 years to get there why are we last I've been all over this County I see new schools going up roads going up infrastructure going up and Hudson gets I don't want to say it because you'll just be mad at me you know take care of us you answered my question I I I think I think your time is up thank you thank you all you guys and ladies and everyone thank you um I think we've already sort of decided that we're not going to drive on the Hazel right and no I think that's a decision for the Planning Commission the next person is Al Alicia joannis and she's been granted 9 minutes time which s an email this morning saying that I had edited this quite a bit so I'm hoping not to take all nine minutes um I'm Alicia joanis I live at 10816 Patrick Avenue so Denise she's been granted N9 minutes as well yes she's been granted 9 minutes I'll try not to take all that time excuse me sorry Pasco County's Open Spaces vibrant places becomes less true with each passing day we are one of the fastest growing counties in the and we are quickly becoming the laughing stock of car washes Dollar Generals smoke shops and glorified Barracks which is what so many of these new communities resemble there is no character or beauty there is very little thought or concern for the surrounding neighborhoods or its current residents who have dedicated to living their lives and raising their families here all that seems to be important Pasco County right now is more yield more money I have been mourning the peace and Tranquility of my home for over 6 months now when I first learned that someone was going to build on the beautiful 40 acres behind my home since that time I have tried to gather information to Aid my uh me in trying to stop or slow the intensity of this development what I have learn is that the system is not set up for any citizen to be able to go up against the county there are so many rules regulations and code to go through most of us are not well versed in this area so we can only do our best to State our case and won't be able to sight code for you I do not wish to have a community especially one this dents built behind my home unfortunately I have no rural protections because someone drew an imaginary line on a map a mile north of my home I would have loved if my neighbors and I had been given the opportunity to purchase the property however that option was not afforded to us surprisingly the Builder in this case meritos Holmes has been the most respectful and helpful regarding our questions and concerns to make all of this less painful for my family I have filed several public information requests and this is what I found in the Last 5 Years 289 mpud applications have been filed and approved with only 15 under reviewed for revision and only two that ultimately withdrew because revisions could not be met not a single problem excuse me a single project was Marcus denied so nearly everything is being approved there are 10 new divis subdivisions being built or approved to be built near my home they are emerald Fields Pine Creek Legends Point serengetti batera Lakeside colony and Fairwinds the Denton Avenue project Palm wi and Park Lake these along with this project is just shy of 5,000 new hom sites within a 5 mile radius of my home with new prop proposals popping up every day with no mentions of roads being improved new schools upgrading utilities new police or fire stations all of which should be done before these new communities are built I also could not be supplied with a sewage infrastructure report even after a public information request had been filed no one seems to be able to answer the question of if the current sewage infrastructure can handle the additional load the proposal on the proposed connection on uh Hazel road is just adding insult to injury the connection to Hazel road is not something that I should be allowed although it is code to do so not all code can work in practical application everywhere and this is one of those instances it is a huge problem for current residents we all want children to be safe getting to and from school however a walking path on a Hazel would take up the entire easement of the road the Topography of the landscape will not allow for this almost the entire easement is drainage and none of the driveways have culverts the easement is currently being utilized by utilities and two and four yard garbage dumpsters where would these things go additionally children would have no safe place to cross Cobra to get to the existing sidewalk that runs down the west side of Cobra to the schools the extension of the existing sidewalk that already runs from Hicks Road to COBRA way is a much more sufficient is is more than sufficient for children to make their way to school the sidewalk is a good distance from the road it is out in a more public area which is always safer and it provides a safe place for them to cross over crober way in the active school zone although a crossing guard will need to be added to this intersection also the school impact analysis shows that the elementary school is already over capacity this project would push that to 117% over capacity and does not account for Palm whim Parkplace or the Denton Avenue projects the traffic study conducted for this project is insufficient it does not include the intersection at Hudson and Cobra even though is one of the biggest intersections is in school zone and is within several hundred feet of the proposed community's entrance I was told it was not included because it is a vision roadway which in Al du respect means nothing because this intersection is very relevant to this project the study was done at the wrong time of year to Accurate accurately depict what traffic is really like the majority of the time and does not take into account enough of the surrounding development I have voiced my concerns and they have been ignored citing that all the requirements have been met perhaps additional additional requirement ments should be set in this case the proposed Hazel connection will negatively impact the current residents living on Hazel mayor and Patrick Avenues the addition of 600 plus cars down Hazel Avenue will make it impossible for current residents to make their way out to Hudson Avenue it is already extremely difficult to do so several times a day especially when the school zone is active this will lead to a line of standstill traffic all the way down Hazel Avenue our roads are already used as a cut through from Hudson Avenue to kitten Trail and the connection would just make this problem far worse we also have additional traffic from the school buses going to and from the bus depot several times a day if you connect we will no longer be able to get to either major roadway in a timely manner and may God help us if we have an emergency because no emergency vehicles could get to us if we needed them also the proposed community's roads will be private and will be maintained by their HOA or CDD all of our roads are public and when the addition of 600 plus cars inevitably damages our roads the county will want to put 10year leans on all the properties to repair them it should also be noted that a good number of current residents already paid 10year leans to have these roads paved in the 80s or in the late 90s excuse me so now they can look forward to having to pay all over again because the new res new residents will destroy the roads even though they will bear no responsibility in repairing them we hope that our opposition will be taken seriously and that any Community being built should more accurately reflect the surrounding area and that there should be no connection to Hazel Avenue or any of the existing roads thank you a question thank you the please no applause no applause can I ask you a question about the about what about the leans for the leans yes road construction I contacted the staff this morning and asked if there were any active pvas which is for Paving Assessment program assessments out there and I was told no and then when I were asked if there were ever any on Hazel or mayor I was told no and so I'm trying to figure out is there are actually residents here that can attest to it the chromers and uh Sarah's family and uh amber who they are are going to speak their families did pay in the 9s for 10 years the roads were Limestone and in order for them to have them pave they had 10e leans put on their properties that they paid on their taxes over the years David was here we don't talk from the audience when you come up you can speak was there a program that predated peas to your knowledge I'm not saying not suggesting she's not telling the truth I'm just I wasn't able to get the information from the staff P asked has been in existence since I was here in 2001 so I I don't know I don't know if there was a program that predated poos but it's it's been accounting program since I remember okay I I just want to make a a comment um can you hear back there all right when you start off and this is just for everybody to to remember as we're going through these proceedings you mentioned you know there's hasn't been a a way for the citizen to fight the county or to be able to go against the county not to fight well but but to have a voice to be heard against the county I just want everyone to remember it's citizen versus citizen it's not citizen versus the county okay we have a citizen that owns that property that wants to develop it and so we have to make a decision that's based on you know we have who owns the property is not the actual applicant I understand so but but that's why I'm saying you know they're they Property Owners rights and their citizens rights or the people that around it and so we have to weigh those things it's not something that's for the county no I just said I me to to be properly versed I was given a lot of advice um that when I came up I would need to site code and I did do my very best to go through like I said a lot of them are rural protections that don't apply to me because that ends a mile north of my property so it wasn't meant as a slight it was just meant that there is quite a bit to go through in where you all do this quite often this is something new for most of us we've never had to attend one of these meetings before we've never had to um State our case in a way that um that is not emotional that states facts and that is not citing Cod code you know I mean I don't have those so we we appreciate your comments and I understand it's not something you do every day U you know it's and like I said it wasn't meant for a slate it's just that it's a very it's very overwhelming the point that I wanted to have I say the same thing it's not meant as a slight you know it's just remind remind you know when there's car washes when there's all these things that are being approved we have to balance the property owner's rights and we've said this before but we have to balance property owner's rights against the people that are around and so if someone wants to develop a car wash that's their it's a free country it's their prerogative to be able to do that you know it's not for us to say you can or can't do that so just keep in mind when we're when we have all these projects that are being approved or not approved you know we have to look at them based on whether it's suitable for the area whether you know there's it's going to create an undue burden on the people around them but if there's no legal reason why we can say no we have to balance the rights of that property owner as well okay understood thank you did I understand you correctly you would be opposed to a sidewalk along Hazel Avenue not NE necessarily Mrs uh I well I had a qu my question was where would the children cross but it was answered by the attorney and this and this uh Cammy I'm sorry Co coet I I don't know her last name I do know her first name um because I've met with her several times she did answer the question that they would put a crosswalk there but um the if there no not necessarily but I do believe that um it's going to be quite interesting to see when the engineer does go the easement is not large it is all drainage ditches none of those driveways have culverts so those would all be need to be added if we do have heavy rains that drainage is full all across those there's utilities up and all and all up and down that road on Hazel on this side of the road that they want to use and it's an it's more agricultural so the majority of homeowners have two and four yard dumpsters that sit in that easement as a way for them to have their garbage collected um I just I would be very surprised if it was something that would be feasible it's a it seems like a pretty it's a small Rural Road um I don't feel that the the easement would call for it or the topography would call for it I'm not an engineer um that's just my observations um no ultimately if it's found that it could do it without disrupting the residents of course they have no problem with children being able to get to school safely but there is an absorbent amount of traffic already on COBRA so if they do do a crosswalk there there would also need to be a crossing guard because there' be no way for children to cross safely and to fight with the traffic on COBRA and Hazel Road it would just be dangerous period regardless if these homes are put there crossing guards are going to need to be employed just if one if the extension on Hudson goes all the way it already goes from Hicks to cobra that's new that was put in when they did the intersection at Hicks and uh Hudson about 5 years ago so if that extends it's it's not a huge extension and then they're already proposing that that be twice as large as a normal sidewalk at 10 ft so I think that would be more than sufficient if it's not meant to be sufficient and the easeman can handle it of course I have absolutely no problem with children walking safely to school but there are plenty of children who live in our community who safely walk to school without the sidewalks now so um our main concern is the traffic it looks like the sidewalks on the west side of Cobra way right now yes so they would have to cross through and that's that traffic is standstill and like Mr Cromer said If you're trying to get out during any of those active School Zone hours you someone has to let you out or you're not getting to Hudson Avenue do we know if there's sufficient right of way on the east side of um the East cob way of Cobra way for second sidewalk I wouldn't think so it's very there's very very little space there which is why I think they chose the West Side to begin with the opposite side of Hazel Avenue has the same problems I think that the north side was chosen because you don't have any cross streets to compete with which would be mayor in that case it's funny cuz at the north side of Cobra way there before you get into the school property it looks like they have to cross back over from east to west it looks like there's a crosswalk the sidewalk terminates and then you have to cross back from east to west so there are there are other options and there are maybe some you know it might not be as easy to do to put that sidewalk in for the children all right thank you thank you Mr chair the next person is Amber Tucker Amber if you could give us your name full name and address please yes Amber Tucker 10502 Hazel Avenue and you've been sworn yes um I've lived on Hazel Avenue since 2005 I'm also a proud graduate of Hudson High School uh we understand that growth is inevitable but as a lifelong citizen of Pasco and a taxpayer I feel that this county is not appropriately prepared or proactive in planning for the growth that we have been seeing home owners on Hazel Patrick and mayor were assessed several thousand dollars by the county to pave these roads these roads would still be Lime Rock if not for the homeowners who who paid out of pocket for this Improvement and I do have the documentation for the isfaction of lean for the home I'm in now speeding has been a problem on Hazel for a long time the majority of people traveling down Hazel Patrick and mayor are not residents they are using our roads as a cut through between Hudson Avenue and kitten Trail and do not obey the posted 30 mph speed limit the Pasco school's Northwest Bus Garage has an entrance on Patrick Avenue Avenue which contributes a considerable amount of traffic through our neighborhood as well our neighborhood roads are busy enough we do not want Hazel Patrick and mayor connected to this development if it is allowed to proceed our neighborhood is still designated as agricultural residential please respect this and do not allow even more traffic on our roads the only recent recent significant Improvement that has been made on Hudson Avenue was at the intersection of Hudson and Hicks in 2019 which was paid for by the penny for Pasco that Improvement included a sidewalk from busy Hudson Avenue to the Hudson schools complex where those schools have been standing for 40 to 50 years the other main entrance to this complex on kitten Trail did not receive any improvements if residents weren't paying more in sales tax would we have seen any improvements in addition to the 321 houses being added to Hudson Avenue that we're talking about today 80 acres have been cleared on Hudson Avenue near Colony Road for Taylor Morrison to build homes 32 Acres have been cleared just east of that for Mi homes to build houses 30 Acres cleared on Colony Road for what I'm assuming will be more houses 60 Acres at the northwest corner of hickon Hudson that is rumage should be another Housing Development our roads and intersections are not up to the demand for all of the new houses proposed for Hudson Avenue I'd like to acknowledge the traffic signal that was um installed at Hayes and Hudson Avenue which I think is inadequate it's a bare minimum traffic light with no protected left turn for any Direction no added turn Lanes no refreshed pavement striping or painted arrows to assist drivers traveling through the intersection this intersection leads North to our very busy West Pasco solid waste facility East to the new Gary plastic packaging company which touted it would provide 500 jobs South to State Road 52 a main artery in our County and West to Hudson Avenue where the county wants to allow hundreds if not thousands of homes to be filt I would like to respectfully ask that you please consider not allowing this resoning and development to be approved if it is approved please consider our requests of lowering the density and not allowing our roads to be connected to this development thank you thank you Sarah brandomil hello I'm Sarah brandomil I live on um 10832 Hazel Avenue I'm very nervous so we don't bite we promise speak to yourself yeah right I'm like never done this before um so I live on Hazel and I am two lots from where the new development is coming in so I am past mayor on the east side um at the moment we get one maybe two cars a month that come down past my house that realize hey this doesn't cut through there's not even a turnaround they have to use my one of my two driveways that I have um my husband and I are very worried about um obviously the traffic cutting through it is true that we cannot leave our house to go out by Hudson AV um four times a day because of the school um both schools they start at different times so it's hard with the traffic um as of now the cars that do cut through to get to kitten Trail um my daughter walked to school from our house so very close to where this new development will be with no sidewalks um over by us it was great but when she would get down further towards Hudson a the people that speed through to cut through to since they can't turn left onto Hudson when they leave from COBRA they will come through the back and they'll go out to kitten Trail um she would tell me every day that someone's speeding past her so the idea of sidewalks in my opinion is great I'm I'm all for the safety of children but I am nervous with the size of the EAS that we have um again with my dumpster I know that was mentioned that our dumpsters are on the road um we have a fence that goes all the way up to the top my son has a playhouse right in the front I'm worried um with the drainage with the rain we already get flooded up there so the irrigation all of that stuff is just it's the unknown for us um so I would like to find out more about that um we're very nervous with you know 325 homes about 600 cars is it going to be a cut through for people to get past that traffic um also on Hazel there are a few um registered offenders child offenders I check it for Halloween every year um so I don't know having children walk past that I'm I just I'm unsure of what's going to happen with everything so um I just wanted to speak my concerns to you guys today thank you very much thank you appreciate that Kathy Cromer hi I'm Kathy chromer and I live at 10908 Patrick Avenue and um pretty much covered everything here that I would like to say my concern is of course we know that everything is growing in Pasco County and there's not a whole lot we can do about it I am totally opposed to them opening that road on Hazel and using it for more traffic it's not safe we sit now like they said there's it's not we're not exaggerating on the traffic there and it's getting worse and worse and worse someone is going to get hurt um you know people are everybody's in a hurry they're not letting you get out they've got places to go things to do and they're running late they will really give you a hard time at those that intersection there at Cobra and Hazel um I don't want this connected into any of these streets Patrick mayor Hazel um I think a good alternative if they would be able to come down Hudson you know the extension there on the sidewalk where you expect these these children to be you're looking for them when you get in that area I'm I'm afraid that somebody's going to get really uh hurt badly at that intersection but um I am totally against opening that up to any kind of um vehicle traffic thank you okay thank you Mr chair that was the last person I had signed up to speak but can we call Mr Clint win again see if he's back sure absolutely Mr win are you here Mr Clint Clinton win and then there was another person that did sign up to speak on WebEx is not on WebEx but I may have seen her in the audience because I believe I recognized her is Judy Crum here to speak Judy Crum she's hiding back there in the back so I'm Judy Crum I live at 11333 pinkest Drive Hudson Florida which is on the other side of the track um so I concur with everything that everybody's saying I really think that any roads going out people are going to be upset with I don't think that Hudson is prepared to take on the traffic that is there now plus all the additional subdivisions plus you have the Public Works building that's going to be going up that is right across from Lakeside which is going to bring all the dump trucks all the heavy equipment going to be coming down Hudson and we just are not preparing Hudson to be prepared for all this traffic I mean we already know that there's a problem now so I'm not sure how going to fix it but we're allowing all these homes to go in and it seems like we keep chasing it down so we keep chasing you know when we already know there's a problem we already know that there's a problem at Cobra um we live on a dirt road so you know they're want to put an emergency exit over there um we do not have water sewer out where we're at we cannot get our roads paved because they private roads and that comes directly up up alongside the subdivision that's going in there so I know they're putting turn entrances um east and west but they're not going to come down to Edwards so I'm not sure what that is going to pose but we have enough trouble getting out of Edwards the way it is um to go left and I know with colony and all the new homes and stuff that they're putting up there it's going to be a problem um like they had said Hicks and little um you know down by Lakeside um I think something passed today for Word of Life to add and and then like I said with the Road and Bridge going out there I think they have like maybe 100 acres or something out there they're building a huge building out there and all that's going to move out there so all of those dump trucks and everything are be going to be coming up and down Hudson in that section so that's you know I think it needs to be taken look at you know um Hudson Avenue Cobra all needs to be looked at thank you thank [Applause] you that was a last sign up to speak so if you want to call see if anybody else would like to speak right know if Mr Jerry back there would like to come up uh we just we usually don't let anybody come up more than once so um unless somebody calls you up any anybody call him up Jerry do you either you or your wife want to speak okay yes sir did you sign no I didn't oh that's okay come on up we need your name and address name is Bob Waldo I'm at 11229 Pinkus Drive uh I have just with one question that came up about the emergency uh entrance on Edwards I think it was Edwards was called a public road it is not it's a egress easement and I own it I own all the all the property on the east side of this project and uh you know I'm I'm just concerned about that being an emergency entrance uh I believe the drawing showed the easement on the west side of the road and it's not the eement is on the east side of the property line which is my property so I I don't it's not a public road it's private but it is an eement is that there's ESS agress e easement okay Edwards Road is I think a 15t ESS agress ement does the owner of this property have the right to use that easement the owner of the property which the owner the applicant do they have the right to no the easement was assigned uh when pink subdivided the five blocks uh in the back on Pinkus there's five five acre tracks that were developed and I don't know when but I've been there for 30 years so it was before then who's maintaining this easement currently the home owners the homeowners it looks like it's a dirt road or it's it's a dirt road and it's maintained by myself and uh the other some of the other people so the the current the owner of this property that is seeking this resoning is not using it and has no right to use it as I no they do not okay well we'll ask the applicant to address that yeah okay thanks thank you okay anybody else this man in the back yeah d 11512 c Biscuit Lane um a lot of what was said I I agree with a lot of concerns about the traffic that's a major concept I know some of these Builders are coming in with small numbers of houses and kind of keeping under the radar so that they don't have to put forth the complete changes and road redirection but that's part of what I see your guys' job as you see 10 people coming in on that road and Haze all these Builders where's the plans to to further develop the road construction and as you're weighing that property owner rights and the other citizens that needs to somehow come into some discussion there's like was mentioned 10 Builders coming in in that area those places are not full yet there's builders that have been there for 10 almost 20 years and they still haven't filled all their Parcels yet I'm not seeing why we need to have additional housing when we haven't even filled up what's already open um there's further development going in down uh 19 but they're going to use Hudson and Hayes as that cut off to 52 they're going to use all these Avenues through what used to be private roads that they agreed to donate to the county and pay for the pr Paving to be uh so that they have better roads for themselves and now that's going to be that's already being used as cut throughs for everybody trying to void that traffic at Hudson Cobra um I'm not saying that maybe we don't have the building at some point but right now it just doesn't seem feasible it doesn't seem like we've built up the infrastructure to handle these new houses um in agre with most everything that everybody said one of the things I didn't hear discussed was where's the plans for um considering uh you know have they looked at the wildlife that they're going to um impact is has their been an inspection for the gopher tortoises out there has there been a plan for that have you um discussed the groundwater we're not putting it on the side of the road like the one just south of of this um location is budding right up to a bunch of houses that are already on City Water City sewage you're budding up in actually in the middle of a bunch of properties that are on two 5 acre even larger acreage they all have wells they all have septics where counting on our well water we have no if our wells go bad if it's contaminated by the extra fertilizer um and the pesticides and the runoff just from washing people's cars all that stuff going down into the aquifer if that's contaminating our wells we don't actually have access to get to the city water we can't have an alternative source of fresh water other than bring it in for ourselves so is there a plan for testing that water now and doing follow-up test year after year for quite some time to ensure that we're not having that offset that we don't need to then as a county decide okay these people have undrinkable water now you know and what are we going to do to help all these other properties I built there to be on peaceful quiet 5 Acres all right I own the five acres next to me as well my mother-in-law lives there um you know we wanted that kind of Lifestyle the people around there wanted that lifestyle it's the the only thing that strikes me odd is they're in the middle of a bunch of properties like that and there's no way for people to recoup that if they their Wells go bad if they freshwat all of a sudden becomes toxic um it's foreseeable there's quite a bit of space there between the water levels it should clean up things should be but is there any plan from you guys or anything you're going to put on them as an expectation of testing and follow through and then who's responsible who actually has to pay for all that if my water goes bad am I going to really bring something in from Kitten Trail or or Hudson AB am I going to be able to get access to County Water um so that was one of the things that wasn't mentioned the other thing that wasn't mentioned is our Emergency Services I spent last summer 45 minutes on 911 as the third call about a trespasser on the property person that was impaired um making their way closer and closer through three fence lines to my front door as I barricaded inside with my family and a weapon in my hand to protect my family right um the whole time I had every right to go outside and confront this person but I did the right thing I called night one1 and waited for emergency services that took 45 minutes to come that's unacceptable that property alone I'm paying over $67,000 a year in taxes and that's with homestead and I can't get a cop to my door in under 45 minutes year prior to that I had similar situation right so this hasn't been addressed so how's the infrastructure going to be in what's your plan to use the new impact fees to support more local sheriff's office I think they just put something out a week or two ago letting you guys know that they are short staffed that they don't have enough people to cover these areas um especially Hudson gets Short change then finding locations then being familiar with the area actually how to get to my house you know down the dirt roads down the the back roads um I think that's all that I wanted to add the other people that came up here very well prepared I like what they had to say I just hope before you go and just finalize and approve something you do some thoughtful I have a question before we research what you mentioned the use of impact fees to pay for the what what makes you think you can use impact fees to pay well maybe not impact fees but that's just going to come out of our local taxes but impact fees for the further development of our roads would probably be more appropriate how are we is there any plan what are we using these impact fees for yeah we you you we have impact fees for roads but you specifically asked us to use impact fees for funding the sheriff which that's why I'm asking it's not just this Builder but you've got 10 other builders on the same STP Road question for you don't know how you guys use the you brought up about the sheriff is what he's asking we can stick to um last time I was on the phone with the one of the deputies um he said to tell you guys they need more staff that was his comment to me rather than come out get I get the point I'm just making asking us to use the county to use impact fees to find the sheriff and I'm asking what makes you think we can do that like the other lady said that not my job I don't know how every detail of how you use your funds I know you do get funds from that I know you get funds from taxing I specialize in a different career this isn't my career I'm just asking you guys to think about it and because where would this money come from make plans for it in the future knowing that we're adding in all these homes we're going to need more police officers uh in support we're going to need more emergency vehicles that can get up and down the road and not be blocked at school time so are you aware of how much of our County avalor budget goes to fund the sheriff no are you aware of how much the increase in our Revenue goes to the sheriff no okay no I I'm not I want to investigate some of that before you it sounds like you're sort of accusing the county of not adequately funding the sheriff no that's not what I meant by it not meaning to insult or anything I'm just asking can you guys go back with your knowledge of how those funds are used used and think about a solution to improve those services in that area especially we're first of all let me just let me just tell you this to get to your questions and your problems that the county doesn't preemptively go out and build roads and put traffic lights in where they don't know where they need to go so what they do is every time somebody builds a home MH the county they have to pay the county somewhere in the right range of $30,000 per home in Impact fees to do all the things you're talking about build the roads put the traffic lights in adequate sewers water all that kind of stuff M these people aren't going to be drilling Wells near your property they're going to be using County sewer and water so they're not going to they're not going to adversely impact your wells I'm hoping they're not going to touch your wells I'm hoping the stuff that they put on their grass and their wwn and that doesn't any roads and anything that they build are going to be paid out of those impact fees that's why the County charges impact fees so they don't have to come out yes and assess the property owners and um so you I think that's something that maybe you're worried about that you shouldn't be worried about because we that's how you're asking me how we plan for it that's how we plan for it we charge the Builder so that he's paying for the those things things that need to that need to be there to solve problems for the for the citizens that are that they're building for and for the ones that are already there so the unfortunate thing is it's a little bit of the chicken the egg problem because you have that's my point we try to plan ahead right but we don't know just because we prove it development doesn't mean it's going to get built right no it's going to take so we can't we can't build a road with the expectation it's going to be completed so the impact fee has to be paid first before we can do that and then that's years in the process to get it built so unfortunately you know is even though we know all these projects been approved doesn't mean they're all going to get developed and we can't build infrastructure on the basis that maybe they will get developed and then turn around and maybe they don't get developed and now we're now everybody that is a taxpayer like yourself has to bear that burden for for an improvement that wasn't needed so that's why it's kind of a chick in the egg scenario with with regards to developing infrastructure we you know we can't build it before it's needed and that's I said they spoke and it's the same thing with with to some extent with sheriff's office right because there has to be heads and beds as they say there has to be people in those properties paying those property taxes yeah that has to translate down through that millage to the Sheriff's Office sheriff's office then has to buy equipment hire deputies train those deputies and and that's a process before they come online so there's always going to be that lag when you have a lot of development going on between when we have the funding to be able to improve infrastructure as well as to improve Public Safety for it and and I I get you it it it's it sucks and I've seen the long times but it's it's not really the sheriff's fault it's not really the County's fault per se it's just that lag when you have development going on I think it would just be helpful to know somebody's even considering it Robert you we definitely schools we definitely are any other any comments about schools well we probably we probably need to let sorry coms you were saying Robert so I was ignoring Richard speak in has everybody done asking this gentleman questions because we probably need to think so well I think he brought up the school so I want to answer his question oh okay all right I like that gentleman's idea about the cut through to Old Skippers Trail turning that into a cut through and coming up with a better way to filter the cars through there that was great thought it was this gentleman but maybe it was another one about the school capacity yeah so can you to speak to that yeah I mean we work the county sends us all the developments we work very closely with the county communicate with them about all the developments we're aware of all the developments we have land on Hicks Road that we if we need to build a new school we could do that we can also build Wings on the schools there at Hudson Middle School and Hudson Elementary we can also rezone some other the actual zone of Hudson Elementary right now it's Hudson Prim Primary Academy so the schools on the west side are less crowded than the schools down in the 54 Corridor so we have lots of things in place we have you know we have Portables I know that's not always something that people like but a portable is a classroom just like any other room so there is there are we know about the development and we proactively look out for it so if it's overcrowded yes we it could be overcrowded the process too about that is if you like Derek was saying if you build the school if you build another school and then it's half full well now you've wasted taxpayers dollars cuz now it's half full and you're waiting for the other homes to fill up or the other school to fill up with houses so unfortunately there has to be a little bit of overc capacity at some schools sometimes and that's just the way it is because the other option would be like I just said okay we're going to build a school but then it's going to be half full or three quarter of a quarter full so we're aware of the development and we track it very closely did we get this might be a better question for staff but did we get numbers of expected students for high school middle school and yeah that's also included I didn't see it in the packet so I don't think it's going to be the one development that kicks up the numbers in that school it's going to be the combination of all of them on that road I worked there for well over a decade so I've battled that traffic every every one of those years and stuff traffic is bigger issue there and I see this and I see this and we have in some ways a bit of a flawed system under the someone made the comment that one of the schools would be 117% over capacity and that only included this development it doesn't include Palm winds and all of the others that they cited and all of these things have a cumulative effect and I see that constantly in here with the transportation analyses we don't require in our code for a transportation analysis to take into account other muds that have been approved and are in the pipeline they they apply a mysterious growth factor to the road and I think that growth been I see Ellie in the back come talk about that but I don't know it's two or 3% and then some seasonal adjustment Factor try to tell the people in this room that there's only 2 or 3% more traffic on the road mhm I mean we all know it's garbage that that needs to get fixed you know where they get that growth factor from is it a b number or is it I have no idea how that comes about but but that's that's a problem of our code that's something in the the code that's broken and probably needs to get fixed I don't have all those answers but I see it I see it all the time we've we've asked that we all know that uh that's a good point Mr Moody and I just want to let you know we actually had a conversation with Mike carala today about that and he has told us to proceed with doing Transportation Planning and looking at the downstream effects of all these developments coming online I believe me I sincerely appreciate that and I'm sure everybody sitting in this room appreciate and that should be done regarding everything I it's being done some extent I there with utilities but you know also Public Safety I realize the majority of the the current staff Bears no responsibility for the authorship of that code that happened by prior administrations and a prior political initiative to change the concurrency system to the mobility fee system but now we're finding out that the mobility fee system doesn't quite work as well as we were all promised back in the day too so you know I don't I don't know what those Solutions are but I know the one that we have doesn't work until your point we recognize that but for the moment we have to work within the system that we have I'm glad to hear I'm glad to hear Mr angle and Mr carbal are on that that I think that's Wise Wise decision on the administration's part I don't think we have any more questions for you so thank you very much thank you Mr chair I do have a question for staff um what is the long range planner you know seeing all the mpds that are coming in that area what what are the long range plans for Hudson Avenue is there anyone that could speak to that any widening of Hudson Avenue on the long range plan or anything of that sort I was been ask the same exact question and to to your point about all the MPS and yeah we've discussed that before uh the answer is I don't know um I do not believe it is on the capital Improvement plan uh and I believe that our County engineer has ained that the level of service there is satisfactory at this time but if you'd like we'll check in with it and get back to you at the next meeting that'd be helpful because I mean when I look at it down on the street level it does narrow down towards Beacon um it just I think it's something that there's you a repetitive kind of question that we heard from the audience about Hudson Avenue and and issues with that so yeah it'd be helpful to to understand what the plans are for that road David many many many moons ago before you were employed by the county and I was probably a young child there was a subdivision called Shadow Ridge built just to the north of Colony Road and the dot and its Infinite Wisdom blocked all of the left turns from State Road 52 on to Colony Road in favor of providing exclusive access into Shadow Ridge now we have developments going all the way up and down Colony going to happen here on Hudson and that's going to be the main road to get down to 52 where no one will be able to make a left turn and if you go to the next street over from Colony that's the one that I got to get out in my neighborhood and do and its infinite wisdom has decided there should be a channelized median to access a self storage unit so no one from my neighborhood can make a left turn so now there's a Family Dollar on that same corner at Shadow Ridge and 52 that is now a de facto street so that everybody can get to a median opening to make a left turn I realize that's not Pasco County's fault that's something the dot did way back in the day but I can tell you as palm winds comes online and the other 30 acre development that the lady mentioned that's just south of I'm trying to remember the little street that goes over into midow Oaks that's going to be a disaster a traffic nightmare a disaster waiting to happen and with the addition of this and I'm not necessarily opposed to this development but would the addition the traffic from this development because that's if you look it that's the nearest way down to 52 that's what's going to happen here and I don't real I realize it's not the applicant's problem to solve that but there's a lot of growth going on in the area and these people all see it and they need to see Solutions and unfortunately I hate to say this I in my district I live in this District our district is ignored it has been ignored for years and years and years for many many years we're the only District in the county without a county park and if it wasn't for commissioner Mariano to fight and fight for actually multiple terms as his time as a county commissioner we wouldn't have a park there we still wouldn't have a park so somebody needs to pay attention to that side of that that quadrant of the county too these people all pay taxes and now what we're coming out is we're finding out and can we recall the lady that said she had her tax satisfaction of lean I had I had a quick question for you about that can you have to come up CU has to be on the record can you just tell me what when the lean was imposed on the property I don't care when it was satisfied I just want to know when it was put there um U my name is Amber [Music] Tucker okay lean bearing the date of September 18th 2001 okay so it's when the is there and Denise is there somebody here from the staff that can answer I mean because when I asked this morning the answer was there was not a past there but there sure sounds like there was P does did exist in 2001 I can assure you I I don't know about this particular but if if it was if somebody we're talking about hazel correct yes sir I I suspect that the only way the county would have paid Hazel in 2001 would have been through posos okay and then the same went for mayor to the best of your knowledge to the best of my knowledge yes I do everything I access through especially if there was a lean on our property because that means we that means that we imposed special assessments at the time yes I understand to clarify at the time I did not own the house my in-laws own that house that's why I was aware of the assess the paving assessment but everything I I gathered it from the clerk of courts public records every homeowner on the roads in my neighborhood who were assessed okay that's that's all I need to know thank you thank you do you know by chance if this the property owner who is seeking the resoning were they assessed for impacts to Hazel I believe so yes so they they did pay something towards the road correct yes to the best of my knowledge yes well you would be paav generally you pay based on Frontage so that would be what 50 ft of Frontage well okay so under our new Under the newer P system you actually pay based on eru which would take into account how much you how many units you can put on a vacant piece of property in 2001 I don't think we had the eru methodology probably would have been based on front foot and so it probably would have been a minimal amount but I don't know without having the documentation I don't know exactly how much they were assessed and of course at the time the neighborhood had to vote and the majority you know who voted for the paving even so if people didn't want to pay for the paving they still had to because the majority went in for the paving assessment and while you're up here I'm not sure if we asked you before but were you opposed to the sidewalk going in on Hazel I would love to have a sidewalk on Hazel um yeah okay absolutely a sidewalk in Hazel is a great thank thank you thank you all right think we've covered out everything there's nobody on WebEx for this item there is no one on WebEx for this item all right I hear a motion oh okay I'm sorry Cammy Corbett again for the record thank you uh commissioner Moody just to answer your question with respect to the methodology for the traffic study for this particular development staff staff actually was out in front of this and did access actually make us analyze all of the background traffic plus the 2% growth rate for this particular traffic analis not other approved muds in the areir yet yes which two I will have to ask our I will I think I would like to ask um our traffic engineer who actually conducted the study to come up and answer that question is that a question for him too we have your name and address please yes uh good after afternoon my name is alii I'm with links and Associates in Tampa Florida uh yes we did include actually three muts um it was Palm winds um Palm wind Park Lake and um also Meritage family Trail which was pending at the time but we did include it so it's much more than 2% okay so but that's not normal correct that is not normal but then it go back to how we develop uh the code and it was big discussion we had we took it to our uh at the time we had DRC and it was decided that they didn't want to make the this traffic studies uh a a huge accounting book because once you getting to including all other approved projects then the question becomes when you do traffic count how much of that project already has trips on the road so somebody needs to keep track of taking projects trips out of the roads fictitious trips and put in the it just become very complicated and the whole system was that uh the developer pay Mobility fees and the studies are supposed to work as to warn the county where might be issues and the issue at Cobra and Hudson is more of a operational issue it wasn't um the intent of these uh analysis to look at the major capacity improvements and and Cobra is not a major County roadway even though it does serve the school but it's not part of the overall uh Vision plan so with regard to Hazel specifically did do we have a number on extra generator trip counts because um we did not include Hazel in our analysis our analysis is a worse case meaning that we had all of our shs onto Hudson um and then later on it was they wanted to include Hazel connection so our analysis is actually W's case not not having any trip so you just yeah and what was the level of what was the level of service determined to be when you analyzed all the developments Hudson uh the standard is at D and with all the trips and the counts and converting to P to pix season and the 2% is C based on doot capacity tables you're saying the the standard is c d standard is D which is C is is much better than so you're saying it will operate at level of service C yes okay and do you know to answer the question about future improvements to Hudson long term is it always planned to be two lanes or is it uh based on the long range Transportation plan which is going through an update right now it's uh to Lane uh and you have to remember I don't want to go into a lot of detail of long range plan when this was the long range plan first you develop the population and employment estimate this was done almost 6 seven years ago the day for the lrtp um and then you develop the the the plan based on the growth at the time I don't believe we had all these MPS coming in so when next time the lrtp is being develop you will have to consider these projects and hopefully the residents will have be more active in commenting on the lrtp and making sure Hudson uh gets on the uh on the book for the for improvement did did you say that's being updated right now the lrtv it's going to update by okay okay so do you have a number on the additional Peak trips on Hudson Avenue then it's going to be generated additional based on this project for this project um so our project traffic is um approximately um 160 160 about 320 peak hour on both directions okay so Peak about evenly divided East West yes yes okay so ask another question um I I get your point about the lrtp my only slight concern is we're asking for RightWay reservation of 57 ft from Center Line which isn't that our two-lane cross-section I don't recall what's the the RightWay width is required does anybody from staff know whether that's based on a two lane 57 ft cuz that's that's 100 14 14 ft is that our two-lane cross-section or a four lane cross-section two I'll take an answer from anybody that knows already do you know yeah sounds like a four length me it's a it's a two lane sorry uh typically the two foot cross-section the urban areas is going to be 80 ft so 114 would sound to me like a four lane cross-section okay so we have reserved enough right away way if if the lrtp ends up showing needs to be for Lanes they're providing enough right away that we they could accommodate it right is what I'm hearing that sounds right okay good thank you okay um I'd like to ask um Mr Joe Simo from W to come up and address several of the issues relating to Hazel Avenue Edwards and some of the other issues sure good afternoon everyone uh Joe Simo with W engineering 123 363 Hampton Park Boulevard Tampa Florida 33624 um quickly on um on the Hazel I've sat at many a a table with um residents with um staff with the developer and somebody pulls out a magic marker and draws a big line on that down a road and said let's put a sidewalk here and suddenly it solves a lot of problems and that's great but he as the engineer I always have to jump up and say wait a minute we got Topo we got ditches we got all kinds of stuff so I have to have to be the downer there um so missan it's described it perfectly we've got toppo we've got trash cans we've got mailboxes so when it looked like we were going down this road I immediately said we need a route survey so Meritage went out and got a route survey immediately we got that back the Topo is not as challenging as we thought um the good thing is the situation lines up similar to COBRA in terms of RightWay width and space between the road and the RightWay we knew you guys put a sidewalk on COBRA so we called up project management and had a big teams meeting with them and pulled open the plans to COBRA and looked at how your project management department worked out some of the bugs along that so we basically have that as our go-to of all the ways we're going to address some of the little nooks and crannies and toppo and Swale issues so we are very much on top of that um Miss yanas was absolutely correct it is going to be challenging but not by any means insurmountable at all um the emergency access onto Edwards oh I just learned about 17 minutes ago we don't have access to it according to not being able to use that EAS I don't know if you need to for fir Tru access because the road is right on the property line we actually don't need to physically build anything onto that property um just stub out to it so if we learn that a fir Tru actually needs an easement to get there that's fine because that emergency access was on there because recall our original map did not have an access to Hazel if we're mandated to put an access to Hazel we don't even need an emergency access anymore if we don't have to put a vehicular access to Hazel we can easily put the emergency access over there so if it doesn't work out that we have access we have multiple options um Wildlife uh a gentl but before we leave the point on Edwards I guess I'd like I mean with all due respect to the gentleman he's not an attorney I mean you all looked at whether you do have the legal right to use Edward I mean it seems odd to me that there's this road adjacent to your property that you have no right have access whatsoever are you positive you don't have the right to use the easement I think we're being told we don't I haven't looked into can I hear from your attorney on that issue because I I would say it's not positive that there's not an access easement there's not an access a specific access easement benefiting the property but there is Public Access so it's it's there's an Ingress and egress easement that for the public there so it's not specifically an easement on title that benefits that property but there I I would not stand here to say and today and say no there's absolutely no right to use it whatsoever so you're saying that that Ingress egress easement is granted to the public correct okay so there is a public right to use it then I based on my preliminary investigation of it yes what is a preliminary investigation this is just something that was raised to me very recently So based on what I've looked at so far I know that it is not there is not a specific access easement are these EAS granted by some deed conveying to individual Property Owners yes Deeds with reservations correct but there's not any like if you pulled our title commitment it doesn't say you have at you know pursuant to ow our book and page you have you black well property have access rights over this other property but there is is an easement there an easement in favor of the public correct not just to those individual Property Owners correct if there's an eurn in favor of the public I think certainly a fire truck or police officer could use it so but I haven't seen all this documentation you're talking about the gentleman's asserting I don't know if he's asserting that a police officer can't use it didn't seemed like he was asserting but I guess we can ask him for that clarification but your is I guess my question is based on what you've investigated so far do you think it can legally be used for emergency access we believe so yes okay answerers my question okay um back to the list here just trying to make sure we address everyone's concerns Wildlife I we talk about this on every project um in order to submit our first round of construction plans we need to submit a wildlife survey in order to get this mpud through there was a wildlife survey submitted uh 90 days prior to construction a new Wildlife survey needs to be submitted anything that's threatened and endangered has special requirements go for tortoises will need to be relocated all sorts of different types of birds depending on what type of bird is there could alter construction schedule um require additional monitoring so that's all plugged into the code uh groundwater good question we're surround we're there's Wells surrounded us uh the wellhe head protection ordinance says all sorts of things you are not allowed to do on this property none of which we are doing but the Wellhead protection ordinance also does make specifically say that if you if you're designing and permitting ponds in accordance with State rules I.E Swift Mud rules County rules you are you are okay to do that in this area um it's basically a presumptive criteria that if you do that right you won't harm the groundwater because those permitting take into account are you breaching the aquifer how close are you to the aquifer so all that will take be taken to account during conru plan review there was a question about proximity to fire stations I just quickly looked it up fire station 10 8 minutes away 42 miles west on 19 um just wanted to hit that bullet and I believe that was everything you wanted me the answer all right thank you Joe why you're up here can you answer where where did the connection to Hazel come up or where did that come up in the process wasn't on your original concept plan but then it looks like it got added in and then there's people here opposed to the connection to Hazel so I didn't know where did brought that up or where did that even come from I I learned about it in an email so we'll find out where that came from I can take that one that came from uh the county staff in their review of the application as they were finally review the upper level staff was reviewing the application the request came from them to interconnect right okay so it was added for the interconnection it wasn't added because they needed a second access because of the number of units or anything like that it was interconnection right Niar PTO planning and economic growth um the proposed project has access off Hudson Avenue and the secondary access to the site would happen at Hazel Avenue they're proposing other access points some of which are emergency access points to help suffice for the coat but the but the only real secondary access point would be off of Hazel and the reason why the connection was being made there is because Hazel actually comes to the property line all the way and the road was anticipated to move in the Eastward Direction Through the subject property today so um based on feedback from the board of County Commissioners about inter connectivity between sites based on the Land Development code and the requirement for connectivity and based on the facts on the ground which is a road stubbed out on the property line there's there's not even a gap it's right on the property line um the connection was uh preferred at least to start off the discussion and debate the merits of the connection versus ignoring a stub that's right on the property line sure so can I ask the question about this a little different way so there's two different code Provisions there's one that requires interconnects um which we've actually saw an alternative V variation to not do that to the east but there's also clip provision that requires a second full functional AIS when you reach a certain number of units we do they have the number of units where they need a second full functional access there's a conference just now um well I mean the reason the reason it's relevant is there kind of already is a request to not inter connect to the east which in theory if the Planning Commission were to sort of expand that request and not do it to the West they could do it but I don't know if if they need a second full functional access the code that's a whole another code provision that hasn't been noticed for variation at all so that's why I'm asking the question yeah I I think they're they're checking the Land Development code right now in terms of the quantity of units that the that would trigger the second full access point so if we can come back to this question shortly I'm sure it's 600 I'm just trying to did you have it on so Joe Simo is suggesting 600 well Brad's gon to come up and confirmed 600 okay so how many Brad knew it off the top of his head so and how many units do they have I'm sorry right without looking back 321 okay so they don't need a the code does not require a full second functional access for this project but did it does require an emergency access yes so they need one full and one emergency right Brown okay so I guess the sum of all this is in theory and this is Rel to the Planning Commission about what you want to do about hazel but in theory the applicant could modify the AL the variation request they've already sought to not interconnect to the east to also not interconnect to the west and that would be up to the Planning Commission though but there's at least some notice in the record that there was a variation being sought on that code provision so I think if the applicant wants if they wanted to modify their variation request to include not interconnecting to the West on Hazel I think they could but it what I heard the applicant say earlier is they're sort of deferring to you and the elected officials to make that decision I'm going you're okay either way okay I think the original plan was to not connect to Hazel and then you added that because of the staff's recommendation because of interconnect can we Rec again fur the record that is correct um and getting back to commissioner Tel's question regarding the timing didn't want to leave that um the condition we had a little trouble with this condition because we understand exactly your point we want to make sure that the sidewalks there when the impacts occur and we can't tie this to CEOs right because that gets into different legal issues about building permits being issued and how you can hold up Co so we thought plat we thought uh one idea that we had as an alternative is 18 months from the approval of the site development permit is an alternative I mean we understand where you're going we'll get the site development permit it'll be another 12 months sort of under site horizontal development and then another six months before any homes are constructed so in spirit we're we understand where you're going and and are willing to talk about what that condition should right and then as long as the antenna is there so that the kids can walk yeah I was thinking you know you look at I'm looking at the site right now and it in theory hopefully when that road is or not not Hazel road but the stub out there that when when the when the road's built and the sidewalks are built then the kids can keep walking correct yeah okay and to go back I don't think my question got answered before but do we have a number of the anticipated students that are going to be added in this property this project 5 58 58 so that's Elementary okay 31 middle and 40 High School correct okay I again I didn't see that and just for everyone's knowledge when this is actually a comes to the county before it comes to the county they send us a School site questionnaire so we have an opportunity to say if we need a School site there so we make that decision at that time we also send them a school impact analysis that she's referring to show was so much the impact on the school CU I know you guys are covered there it was more for the cuz most likely those trips that would be generated down Hazel by connection through Hazel is going to be mostly I would think would mostly School traffic school related traffic so yeah you know it's it's going to be a smaller portion of that 360 trip count that you guys are talking about for the total trip count for the you know so you know looking at those numbers I mean you might be looking at half that amount give or take for Theo trips is is you know not a traffic engineer but that's that's my thoughts on it that's why I was asking that question well actually I do have a question for the traffic engineer I don't I guess I'll ask all I don't know if any of our people are online or not are they yes we have several folks online well I guess I'll POS It generally which is there there was some discussion about a operational issue at I think it was Cobra and hezel is that right Hudson is what I believe he's cob and Hudson it's what he testified well I'm just trying to figure out whether the connection at Hazel makes the situation on COBRA better or worse because they have to cross Cobra vehicular or pedestrian I guess I'll ask both well just real quick on the PED I just want to make sure that when you all making your decision you're fully educated on not just what the residents may or may not want but what is the effect on the existing operations at on COBRA because I really don't know because the reason I'm asking is because in theory if there's interconnection these folks that live on Hazel can now go east through this project to get on to Hudson in other words they wouldn't necessarily have to go to COBRA to get out um but then again I don't know if cumulatively it's going to negatively impact Cobra or not I guess I'm looking for the traffic experts to tell me what is the effect of that interconnection on Hazel what's the effect on COBRA is it negative or positive well I think what uh he testified earlier is that because the traffic study and methodology was completed prior to the addition of the Hazel Avenue connection that he did not analyze that well then I'll ask our I'll ask our staff then because apparently our staff was the one that asked for the connection to Hazel presumably they must have thought what is the impact do that impact positive or negative as it relates to no because you have to look at where they're going to get to a Arial or collector roadway that's Hudson Avenue so either way whether they shortcut through Helen they're all still trying to get to that same place I'm sorry different lady I really like our Traffic Engineers to comment or our traffic experts on what I just want I want their opinion on the effect of that interconnect on AEL and other operations I don't know do we have anyone that worked on this Pro go you hear me yep so I can I can tell you that at the at the time there's there was ample discussion at the board about being sure to make these connections where these connections are possible POS so the staff aired on the side of that connection being required with an understanding that you guys could evaluate it and and make a decision otherwise if you felt that was appropriate and Essen can describe I I get the general policy on interconnects I'm not I'm not ftin staff I'm just asking did anybody think about what the effect would be on COBRA Essen can you speak so David uh this was this was not a an ask from the from the Transportation planners to connect to Hazel this was probably coming more from the planners the long range planners s the mpud planners asking for a connectivity kind of uh better connection you know network-wise and supporting the what the board has been asking us to do uh that is the reason why it was never evaluated as part of their traffic study that we reviewed and approved the methodology does not address as that segment of Hazel ever being evaluated or analyzed but I believe the the more relief points that you have on a you know project for a project or other developments in the area the more the network can support traffic dissipation the better I think the performance would be that is my opinion do you think that having multiple connections to cobra is better than having all the connection through Hudson is that basically what you're [Music] saying without actually analyzing with this additional project traffic it's hard to say that's why I made a general statement uh but I would think that I think Essen I think this gets tricky because you you have the all the potential for the cut through traffic is what I've heard and in looking at the road Network it looks like there's a pretty high potential for cut through traffic trying to avoid that Cobra Hudson intersection and using Hazel almost said Helen I think that's my concern with the connection we're talking about 130 students so you know I know some of them is going to be walking but some's some's going to go in a car so yeah um I think everybody else is trying to leave the neighborhood will probably leave through Hudson I don't see any really Advantage they're cutting down Hazel to COBRA to get out on Hudson that way that's what I'm saying they're all get trying to get the same place right seems to me the sidewalk is the main issue not not the vehicular traffic and if I could speak real quick to the sidewalk I just want to point out that there is the crosswalk there is just not a crosswalk it's a pedestrian Auto retro reflective flashing beacons crosswalk so it is actually sort of signalized in a way I just don't want to leave that just you thinking that it was just going to be by itself but um is I guess real quick I know there's the also the there's the condition I understand on Hudson Avenue for the 10- foot sidewalk for the portion of the Hudson Avenue Frontage why why is is there a reason that that's 10 feet instead of five is that some kind of County Trail pedestrian bicycle traffic and and I guess kind of where I'm where I'm going with that is is they they're if they're willing to put it on Helen does it make more sense to go ahead and just put it on Hudson instead of on Helen in the first place Hazel Hazel I'm sorry sorry goodness gracious see what you did John again different lady yeah I got it um I think that well I don't I I think I was in a meeting where that was discussed and maybe joke and there's sidewalk to the west of Cobra way on Hudson already I correct I'm assuming that's a 10-ft side BL but I could be wrong does the applicant remember cuz I thought this was discussed about the alternative of using Hudson or was it not I don't remember in terms of we are doing Hudson in front of our project no I know the alternative of instead of the connection to COBRA being the sidewalk connection to COBRA going through Hazel doing going down Hazel doing on in terms of Fe ability and right of way and confidence in our ability to execute on the condition we are far more confident in our ability to execute on Hazel in a pedestrian connection than we are on uh Hudson on to the west of our project site there are RightWay constraints the sidewalks were improved uh required taking my understanding takings by the county and again we wanted to commit to a condition that we thought we could execute on and really our team is fully confident much more confident our ability to execute on the Hazel Avenue connection than we are on the Hudson Avenue connection I think it makes the most sense anyway okay I just wanted to ask a question because I noticed there was Mobility or not Mobility fee but there's it looks like there's impact fee credits for the construction of the sidewalk along Hazel so and the bike pad portion correct so in essence you spend in twice you're going to put it there and you're going to come back later and the County's going to put it on Hudson so that's that's why I was asking the question appreciate it you have it arguably sidewalks on local roads are a good idea anyway I mean I'm not sure it's wasted a wasted expend that's right it's good for the neighborhood I mean if that was a brand new neighborhood we'd make them put sidewalks in right Hey Joe while you're up here the only other thing I had on my list I don't think you address was um one of the uh uh folks in the audience brought up the question about sewage yeah the utilities yeah and youtil did did you I got distracted I think the question wasn't our sewage it I'm actually not sure what the question about we're conneting address I think it was a capacity issue oh oh I'm question we're not going to get a permit if there's no capacity so they're safe there so we only get a permit if there's capacity and through the review we haven't gotten any word from the utility department any denials any flagging of any capacity issues or anything like that that would be coming up but again if something between now and construction plan approval happen we wouldn't get a permit and and again to to staff that's something that we normally hav lot of discussion here about whether or not there's capacity at the Shady Hills wastewater treatment plant right now I think utility's position is that there's adequate capacity right I think some previous reports have led us to be suspect of that but they say it's okay so but it's something it's something I would still like to see in the packet to show the anticipated need and then the actual capacity area we had that in a lot of other they only do that with the comp plan amendments they don't get them with the mudds well it still be helpful to see it would happen as soon as we submit a preliminary development plan it's like the first thing that gets reviewed and well Joe I think you're missing the point the Planning Commission had previously asked for a statement about water and sewer capacity on at the zoning stage or complain and complain stage I'm not sure where we're only getting them on maybe Mr PTO or Mr Engel know but I think you're right we're only getting it on the complain Amendment we're not getting the same information at the zoning stage at the zoning stage sounds like I need to get that answer before the bccc hearing and have it very well documented it's just it's just helpful for us to see Joe at one time we were told there was Zero uncommitted capacity at Shady Hills wastewater treatment plan but there have been further discussions since that have indicated that that accounting of available Capac vacity was from a legacy spreadsheet and it's not accurate and hasn't been adequately maintained and utility's position is that there's currently more than adequate capacity at that treatment plant okay well I understand I need to get a real good answer on that right yeah I just wanted to ask you a question on the record so understood yeah okay thank you very much anything else done Mr chair I know this is very odd um but Mr win is back would he be able to speak Mr Clinton wi I just needed to ask rebut time it's up well it's up it's up to the Planning Commission but you're going to have to give the applicant rebuttal if you allow Mr Assuming he's an objector you just got to make sure you give the applicant additional rebuttal time no I I really don't want to go back and retrace steps that be wouldn't be my wish to go back and do it I'll listen to whatever the Planning Commission wants to do but I think we could this going forever you know agree so okay I think we've had everybody speak that has needed an opportunity to speak uh that came here at the appropriate time to speak and I think we need to hear a motion the with regard to the Hazel connction I mean I I I agree with the BCC when it comes to providing interconnects where we can you know we just don't know the trip generation that's going to what kind of impact it's going to be on there so I don't know well I think what we're looking at really is is bicycle and and pedestrian walking traffic not so well it's connected to their vehicular well yeah we don't even know if they have room for vehic vehicular traffic well to be clear I think Mr P's point is if right now the applicant what's written up requ they're they're they are connecting vehicular to Hazel so if the Planning Commission does not want to see a vehicular connection to Hazel you'd have to expand the LDC variation right now there's one under 91 d611 it only says to the east you're going to have to expand that variation to also be to the west to Hazel so moved okay you have a motion okay so is that motion was to expand the variation reest motion is to approve the request with the variation not to make a vehicular and I mean automobile vehicular connection to Hazel Avenue the I would like the sidewalk to be constructed and then if I can get a second I'd like to discuss my reason why we have a second I I'll give you a second so we can get to discussion yep I said this before we had a case out in San Antonio [Music] where and staff I understand the reason I I understand the board wants to see interconnection and I think that's that's great and when we're out in the middle of the county and we're taking r one Ranch and connecting it to the next Ranch and to the next Ranch and we can plan those so that we're not making highways out of people's res residential streets that's a good policy but these are people who have lived here they've lived here many many many years unfortunately the gentleman I asked if he wanted to speak who I've known since I've an adolescent and I can tell you that he's not anti-growth because he's made his entire living doing growth they've lived there the residents have paid for the streets they paid for these streets and they went there to live a quiet rural lifestyle which is exactly why I we live where I live too and I would be mad as a hornet if somebody all of a sudden decided Well because you want to build a subdivision over there that you need to connect use my residential street to create a grid Network just for the sake of creating a grid Network I can't destroy somebody's way of life and you know and the peaceful enjoyment of their property for doing so and I think the developer recognized that from the get-go and again I'm not laying fault at the staff I understand that's a policy the Commissioners have been pushing for but I think we all have to use that we we have to use discretion when we choose where to make those connections to make sure that we're not going going to destroy somebody's peaceful enjoyment of their property so that's why I wouldn't support it but I'm all in support and in fact I'm very pleased that the developer would actually step up and agree to build a sidewalk for the children all the way down to COBRA it didn't sound like the neighbors had much opposition to that I think that's an improvement to the street they've paid for and um that's that's the reason that I don't believe we should have the connection so I do have one clarification question did the applicant ask to not interconnect I mean I know you you created a plan that didn't show an interconnection to the West was your original variation request did it include the West two so you don't have any objection if the request was modified to include the East and West because that was your original request which she said during her original presentation I understand that but I wasn't sure if their variation requests okay from the CL the code include I know I know what they drew I just want to know if they had requested originally A variation to not interconnect to the West So in theory if this was modified to say that you request A variation on both you'd be fine with that okay I just didn't want to make this sound like this was a Planning Commission imposed variation it was something the applicant requested that apparently got withdrew drawn somewhere in the process okay well I do agree with everything that John said and I want to get the discussion on this because you know I agree completely regarding the secondary axis but as far as emergency access goes looking at the potential opportunity and again I'm not an engineer I'm just a dumb geologist but the um the opportunity for emergency access on I'm going to mispronounce that Hazel from a geometry perspective and access perspective seems to be a lot better than coming off at Edwards anyway um so would that be a possible consideration well I think when Joe Simo came up and testified that an emergency access speak of devil to Hazel is is an alternative I preferable I would have questions about how that is done and to have some assurance that it remains an emergency and all of a sudden the gate doesn't come down and make hazel a cut through Street yeah and I agree completely with you on that absolutely did you did you want to talk to Joe about something I don't this is just Motion in second on the floor well I mean so so it's obviously up to the Planning Commission but um to answer the detailed question typically emergency access means that only a firefighter or sherff Deputy has authority to open that gate it including the resident is right so there would be a gate there that only emergency Personnel could open now where we've had some discussion in the past is okay does that mean only for the emergency vehicles or what happens if there was an accident at Hudson and the entrance to this project could could the sheriff's deputies let people out through that road but we generally interpreted as meaning if there's a true emergency and we it's up to discretion of the sheriff Deputy or the firefighter to determine whether the emergency situation dictates the opening of that gate so there may be situation where they may actually have to let residents out of the gate and not just emergency vehicles right I I that might be an impediment to the residents that live there you know they' have to get permission to open that gate get out I mean for what's worth you're going to make an emergency access only you then that pretty much is the rule it's only the emergency only emergency Personnel can open that's the whole point of it being emergency okay but I mean again it's a decision for the Planning Commission you might argue that it might help the residents on Hazel because if if it was during school hours and Cobra was blocked because of school traffic and an emergency vehicle needed to get to their home at least maybe they could get this other way on Hazel as opposed to being stuck at Cobra but again it's up to the Planning Commission what you want to do on that with regard to the connections I mean I'm kind of conflicted because you know we don't want to put an undue burden on the the people that live on Hazel but at the same time I you know I see as a citizen driving around I see get into a deadend road and you got a development with another dead end Road right on the other side and you can't drive across you know to me that comes across as looking like people that don't know how to do proper planning um so I I I side with the BCC when it comes to making some of these inters connects I think that makes sense and it looks like when this road was paved um it it was stubbed out all the way to the edge of that property line as the applicant was saying it it it goes well past uh the last two driveways that were on that street so you know it looks like it was always intended you have the the little marker signs at the end saying you know the road ends right here and it ends right at the property line so it looks like it was always intended when it was paved to me to interconnect at some point in the future but um on the other flip side of it obviously it's going to create trips on the road um which is going to negatively impact the the residents um and we just don't know what that impact is you know we don't unfortunately because it was added last minute they weren't able to incorporate that in the traffic study so we we can't see what those additional trips are um you know I'm looking at if I did my math right about 130 students give or take between the three schools you know yes some of those are going to be walking down this newly constructed sidewalk we're talking about but there's going to be some vehicular traffic and so it's it's hard to make a decision on that based on an unknown in terms of what the impact for vehicular traffic is going to be because I don't I don't I don't see any residents having an issue with pedestrian traffic but looks like there might be an issue with vehicular traffic so um you know I'm generally in favor of the the interconnect but at the same time we're working off the incomplete information so I think we're coming in after a situation has already been created and that being the case I think I'm I'm in favor of I'm leaning toward the consideration of the people that live there now that will therefore I would support the sidewalk wholeheartedly and I would I would not support the V vehicular traffic Mr chairman just a couple of questions or a couple things um one did we ever settle on the timing for the construction to sidewalk the attorney had mentioned so I think what I heard the attorney say was that you would leave the existing deadline sort of as a worst case but for 18 18 months from their the issuance of their site development permit whichever occurs sooner right is that accurate Camy Corp again for the record we were suggesting the 18 months as an alternative just to make it simple not confuse people 18 months from the time s from the time of site plan approval if I amended the motion to make it 18 months would that work for the school board yes yes yeah let me just suggest that you leave it as a whichever occurs first that or the flat because we've had issues with time timing based or calendar Day based deadlines because there's not really an issue the issue is we don't have anything to hold up right like when 18 months passes if they haven't done it there's no approval in the system that we can hold up if they haven't done it if you you got to have some approval that I like whichever occurs first I mean I'm okay with whatever you want to do in terms of the number of plotted units but there needs to be some approval we can hold up right that's fine and maybe it's okay so this what ever occurs first you're okay with that yes what about the number of units because 225 is too high if it's 225 then we're good with the earlier of that's sort of where we were offering the 18 months as an alternative to that so it's still the earlier up right so right if the whichever comes first Richard obviously it's record plot for the 225th unit okay it's not construction of right it's not construction of it's record plat okay I got you yeah yeah yeah all right which occurs well before the they build units the site development yeah okay that's fine thank you okay we have a motion we have a discussion so you you've I not sure I got clear I don't think staff got clear Direction on this Hazel I get what I'm hearing is a consensus that that you don't want a full vehicular interconnect I've not heard whether you guys want anything as far as Hazel being an emergency access or not there was a suggestion over here that maybe it should be I don't know if that was part of the motion or not I think you all need to be clear about what your I don't think that was part of the motion but well I'm not sure if Mr Moody can even consider it or not so I guess I'd like to know whether that was well if we're still in discussion I think that would I'm back to John's motion that would not be part of the motion I feel like the people paid for that street it's their street understand it's County they've paid right okay so we do have a motion now I will say that practically if that's the only barrier between the development in the street and there's a fire a firefighter is probably just going to blow right through I mean I'm just being honest with you it in some it it's possible that a firet truck would just go right through that and if there's a fire no I I understand that yeah it's probably better that way left that way yeah it's a lot easier to run that delineator post over it is than a big gate isn't it so it may effectively be an emergency access in a true emergency but but if you're saying I guess I'm not sure what the new developer would put on the other side well so a dirt road on the other side think about this what happens in the perimeter of every subdivision is a buffer there's going to be a perimeter buffer so in this case there just won't be a road penetrating that if they're going to put up a full tree buffer there and I don't know I guess we have to I'm just out our staff if that becomes a non well they have to have the sidewalk through there and a minimum if that becomes a non vehicular roadway are we going to put a will there be a buffer there well sidewalk and penetrate the buffer and then well I understand the sidewalk but whether a fire truck will blow through there will depend Mr Moody makes a very good point which is if there's a tree buffer there I don't think the fire truck's going to go through there well there's spacing between the trees I mean might it depends where they put the tree but well our fire trucks are pretty tough I don't think they're going to want to go through a tree okay they'll go through that they're not going to go through a tree well there're 60 feet in between trees I think John's point so they could put it we're going to have a tress buffer give them any ideas I guess the issue is that right now because they've redone their plans of showing interconnect Mr tippen has got the he's got his finger on the button what's your put's your opinion go ahead bro go ahead yes unless there is here to preserve that corrid to not have the buffer in that location it could well end up with a tree in the middle there so that it could never have any connection other than so and I don't know that's I guess the but the question is is there would be a buffer required around the perimeter of the subdivision I see Denise shaking or yes okay so if that is the case then I don't think a fire truck would go through it unless you condition it to be an emergency access yeah I mean for all intensive purposes they could have a lot there with an easement between it with a sidewalk I mean so if we take out the vehicular connection but but your motion said you don't want emergency access that was very clear that was the only thing I wanted to ask was clarification on the motion so that's the the motion is a bike ped connection only no vehicular access including for emergency vehicles or emergency con or any any emergency connection whatsoever pedestrian and Bicycle Connection only yes okay and your motion your motion included the amendment on the deadline either either 18 months or the 225 unit whichever occurs first okay thank you 18 months from the issuance of the site development perit and I appreciate the developer's offer thank you okay we have a motion in a second let's have a uh roll call vote Please Mr Jamie gerardy hi Mr Derek pontet nay Mr John Moody hi Mr Christopher P nay Mr Richard Canelo I and chairman Charles I Four Eyes Two n motion carries okay do we have anything else on the agenda Denise yeah we do yeah we have an ordinance yeah Denise has a little presentation I'm going to take a five minute break thank you Mr chair I think at the very least we should have had an emergency connection there and then they can always open it up in the future that way with this you'll never I heard I heard what you [Music] said [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] e [Music] [Music] he [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] e [Music] he [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] right no no looking at me eagerly well you know I I promised someone that I would get something done before the end of the day I feel bad no no no no sorries okay so Denise Hernandez Planning and Development we are uh on agenda I think it's P10 y u peg 24281 this is amendment 68 to the Land Development code we know these types of amendments as typically as minor minor modifications uh this is a minor modification to the Land Development code um these proposed amendments have been on our website for public inspection since about February 27th um with all the proposed modifications and they were previewed uh to the horizontal round table and interested parties on February 21st 20 2024 and actually presented to them yesterday March 20th 2024 so these are as I said some minor modifications to the Land Development code the first item and uh removing a lot of Legacy information so basically the first item is we're removing from um the table that where the public notice requirements is located we're removing developments of regional impact we're removing developments of regional impact subst substantial amendments n OPC uh development of regional impact on substantial Amendment and OPC um and then we're adding to that table County initiated comprehensive plan amendments to con conservation future land use for those to be published and County initiated comprehensive plan amendments to other than con for those to be published and posted uh the next uh modification that we're proposing is in permit types and applications under 42.1 zoning amendments so this is uh removing the requirement to submit a wetland delineation so um our uh colleagues at Natural Resources believe that this is this is something that was request requested by the industry but also our colleagues at Natural Resources believe that this is too early in the process to request a wellin delineation survey at the UK at the ukian um zoning stage um this doesn't mean that we do not send the requ request to Natural Resources we do we send the request to them for them to comment and they do provide comments and as you've seen they will continue to provide comments the next item is you'll see this in several sections which is basically um in this particular application is in mining operating permits um it will also come out in construction demolition debris disposal facilities and also in yard trash processing facilities um traffic impact study has not existed for many many many years so we're replacing traffic impact study with timing and phasing analysis and um modifying the code reference to 90112 because 91.5 is a reserve section doesn't exist again those um stating it in the two applic a this next item is actually the really and true impetus for getting this minor modification out to you as quickly as possible um there was a an a m a mistake made in 46.1 point6 when we called out window signs and sandwich signs as temporary signs they're not temporary signs they're just basically signs that um are there when the business is open they put out the the sandwich sign kind of like in the little sidewalk area in front of the business um same with window signs window signs are are changed based on different sales that occur in the business so they were not intended to be temporary signs they were intended to be other types of signs that don't have time limitations so we made the corrections in the code to show that this is another uh location where a traffic impact study is being replaced with timing and phasing analysis is in rideway use permits the same with uh Garden plan permits this NE this next section is RMH the mobile home District um it has not had a maximum maximum lot coverage called out it also did not have it was silent on Building height so we've added that the maximum lot coverage is 65% we also added that the maximum Building height for single family detached dwellings modular homes and Factory Built Homes to be 45 ft and that's consistent with the change that the board of county commissioner asked us to make to the residential zoning districts a few years ago so 45 ft and then for manufactured and mobile homes the maximum height would be 15 ft and uh that um that height was uh arrived at with um uh consultation with our colleagues over in building construction services so the next item is in um impacts the listed and protected species so it also uh removes the mentions of developments of regional impacts and it clarifies that zoning amendments to mpud are the ones that require preliminary habitat assessment not a ukian rezoning so the next section is 91.3 access management again removes the mentions of traffic impact study in uh in both the section and also in the set sample problem number one that's just that's just stricken out and the uh mention of concurrency is also stricken out in that section and then the last thing is an appendix a definitions we're modifying the definition of window signs and we're modifying the definition of temporary signs um in the definition of temporary signs the uh sandwich style sign was included in there we're just striking that out and in the definition of window signs we're just making it clearer and simpler and um that is what I've got for you this is going to the board of County Commissioners for first reading on April 10th 2024 at 1:30 in dve city and for adoption on April 23rd 2024 at 1:30 in Newport Richie we are asking that you please find the proposed amendments consistent with the Pasco County comprehensive plan and that you recommend approval to the board of County Commissioners and I'm here for any questions that you may have so I wanted to say one thing just as an announcement so the legislature just passed a law of the session that is now going to assuming the governor signs it into law it's going to require every time staff does one of these amendments to the Land Development code for them to prepare a business impact statement even if it's a minor fix like this m they're now going to have to do which Mr stringle aware of and luckily the planning deel department got merged with the Department of Economic growth so I guess they're going to be ready ready to do those business impact TR to so so uh I'm just alerting you that you may see amend some amendments come in before October 1 because they don't want to do a business impact statement but you also may see that that the time period to get these through the process may change because they've got to do this business impact analysis after October 1 depending on their workload interesting yeah and and just to just for the record this one was not done quickly to get it through before the business impact statement this is just you know something that we really needed to change in terms of the the the signs is really the the main impetus so so that's good for business it's good for business yeah yeah but that's the kind of ridiculous part is even if it's an amendment that's currently helping business they're still going to have to do this analysis impact study it will it will be impacted positively um the only one that stood out to me was the height rigs on uh 51.8 um so did that not exist before those height it was silent it did not exist it was basically all right silent on height okay so so then my next question then the mobile manufactured 15ot maximum I mean so I guess you guys consulted with what existing construction is of mobile manufactured and there's really nothing built that's higher than 15 ft well we consulted with actually we consulted with our colleagues at building construction services and I specifically talked to one of the plans examiners that that is her specialty doing mobile manufactured homes and she actually suggested 10 feet so I just went up another 5et to 15t just in case there were any issues with that yeah like my issue with that is you know what if some what if a design changes to where you know they want a higher roof pitch for architectural design and they start manufacturing mobile homes that have a higher pitch or you know maybe a higher ceiling height inside you know cuz facturers can always change that and our and our code handles that because it tells you our code gives uh clarification how Building height is actually measured first off it's measured from the base flood elevation so it's not measured from the existing grade if in a in a location where there it's in a flood zone and then secondly it's measured to half the halfway point to the pitch of the roof so it's not measured all the way to the top of the roof so Derek I actually had the same conversation with Denise on the telephone about this and for a mobile home to be towed down the road it can't exceed a height of 13t 6 in makes sense so the question becomes when we put the mobile home on the site is how many courses of block is it sitting up on I could see the potential where there's probably some sight where there's they'll call it topographically challenged maybe where you could potentially end up with a mobile home that's above 15 ft but I think they're probably there's a couple on GRE Key Road I know well when you're in the flood zone your height is measured from the base flood elevation so this would only happen on you know places that aren't in flood zones where maybe there was some unique topography that required it to be elevated higher than normal on the site I don't want to say it couldn't happen and and and inevitably the first time as soon as we pass this somebody will have have one it'll be 15 feet 1 inch but I would tell you we've also had some Code Enforcement cases where people have stacked stacked mobile homes on top of one another yeah and Denise explained that to me too I think would be rare a double stack the one thing two story punch of hole through the roof right no I there's nothing saying a manufacturer could design something like especially manufactured in theory it could be modular and have two different stories and do now but our code very specifically distinguishes to us a manufactured and a mobile are one and the same that's why modular are included in the 45 okay so the modular yeah okay well this says mobile and manufactured homes correct so to US Mobile and manufactured are same thing we switch those modular ised as well right but a modular has I guess the question that I have engineering standards and one I'm not opposed to the language but the question that I would have is why do we make a distinction what if what if a Manu mobile home manufacturer an Innovative mobile home manufacturer were to come up with a twostory mobile home right they make double wides we take two mobile homes and we stick them together and make a double wide I could see where an Innovative manufacturer could bring four units and add a second story onto the thing too that why make a distinction between whether it's siteb built or whether it's mobile what's I don't understand from a zoning perspective so um how does that make a difference in somebody's life from it's not from the zoning perspective specifically but mobile and manufactured homes have like they have a a HUD Insignia or whatever and they I I've I've personally and I did ask my colleagues have you ever seen them where they build them two stories in height and they're just like no that's not how they they're that's not how their Huds certified now if there's a new thing that would happen in the future I'll disagree I'll disagree with the staff about that that's modular homes that's now we're getting into the difference mobile homes are sanctioned by the department of Motor Vehicles okay the Federal Highway these These are Vehicles these are not that's why they're called mobile right that's why they're called mobile homes but could you get and for many many many years and you require license two level buses for example correct there are two level buses if you have a if you have a suggestion for a taller height that's you know I'm just asking why why is there a need to draw a distinction in height because of the what David specifically stated that the stacking of two together seen that before that that that was the flip side of it is what are you trying to prevent by putting I guess my question is so David why would one be offended if someone tried to do this that wasn't asked Den's question to get to that issue which is I don't know if these are built the standard to which they are built are is sufficient to survive hurricanes if they're double stacked and the reason I know this is because our hurricane mitigation require departments apply to mobile homes throughout the county they do not apply to modular homes so I think there is a different can I there is a there's a bigger hurricane risk with a mobile home than there is with a modular home and I don't know if that hurricane risk is made worse by it stacking higher so can I answer that question now speaking as a professional engineer sure so if I bring a mobile home that is is certified by and these are certified at the federal level mobile homes okay I bring a mobile home on the site as manufactured and put it on the site that's one thing if I attempt to modify that mobile home I just triggered the Florida building code and all of the things that go with it and I'm sure that the people in the building department CU believe me we get the calls at my office about this all the time people they go and they decide I'm going to add on an extra bedroom to my mobile home and they do not realize that they have just opened Pandora's Box to the point where they'll probably lose their home because they'll never be able to certify that it meets the Florida building code so I think your concern is somewhat unfounded in that if they tried to stack them on top of each other and they weren't manufactured and approved by the federal government like that they'd be under the Florida building code and good luck finding the engineer that's going to sign and seal that design I understand that but I think to your point um it no longer is reviewed as a mobile manufactured home it would then be be a another type of use yes so I mean for example I'm going to give you the example of folks who want to do um want to repurpose store shipping containers to be homes which we haven't seen one yet but there are a lot of folks who want to do that so the the actual unit stop stops being a shipping container it's it's now a an actual home that's placed on Perman fix right has to meet the floor of building code so we wouldn't we wouldn't look at it as a mobile or manufacturing home so your definition of mobile manufactured is what's basically with the transported version of that not with modification something that's that's sanctioned by the Department of Highway Safety Motor Vehicles as opposed to anything else I mean I guess that's a question is would the federal or state government even sanction a mobile or manufacturer home that's that high oh I have no idea I don't design mobile homes for but well I'm just saying I could see that that would become possible and I think to dereck's point I think what he's concerned with is we don't want to do something that starts creating an inordinate number of variances I personally don't think a 15 foot maximum is going to start creating a bunch of variances but at least if someone does need one at 15 foot2 in they can come to the Planning Commission and ask for a variance yeah I mean I think you need to just evalue personal opinion to see if you actually get anybody that legitimately needs higher than 15 ft and they come in with a variance then you can see if it's an issue yeah the most likely uh time you're going to run against that is like you said when you're building it up off of grade right they're put up on blocks and then some sites because of the topography it may require 1ot 6 in mobile home and you put a couple ques of blocks you're already over the 15 foot Mark so um is there a number you'd be happier with well a number that's low enough that prevents people from stacking them which is the problem that they were trying to address correct so but also gives a little more so 20t well that's two 10 foot mobile homes I do that as long they don't they do 10 foot mobile homes Ian I don't know about they do so what is the standard size of mobile home is it 10 ft so no the the maximum height when you drive something down the road is 136 so that includes the wheels on the mobile home but usually what the way a mobile home is set up is they back it up onto a site and then there's concrete blocks and Foundation are built underneath the the frame of the mobile home and then the wheels are removed right mhm and sometime and it's all great when you have a perfectly flat site it's fine it's it's not going to be higher than 136 it's when you get some site that has some crazy grade changes and I've seen some of them if actually if you go out there in the highlands there's some that are like that and I could see where if you're standing on the low side there it's 20 feet tall could be like that what are your thoughts Denise you don't have any no actually as I stated my colleagues stated that based on what they have seen 10 ft is very acceptable I added another 5 ft to that considering that maybe someone would have like a a structure that would have maybe a pitched roof or or whatever so that's why I added another 5T so that's why I suggested 15 fet because again the district is is um is silent and I know it's probably the exception not the rule but I I have seen the application of two two men two mobile homes stacked on one another but you said earlier if they did that then that puts them into the whole business of they're not mobile homes at that point right it would but in this particular case they were not retrofitted they just stacked them it was it was a violation all around well how would one get from one mobile home to the other you would have to modify it they did two sets of stairs ladder yes outdoor stairs yes I'll try to find it for you all right I understand to your point though right so that's that's already a violation anyway that so it's a violation of the Florida building code but I couldn't say it was a violation of the building height because the district is silent on the height but you wouldn't need to right because it would still be a violation they'd still have to tear it down or remedy it some way anyway so you don't really need the height restriction to address that anyway because you I I don't recall what the I I think the the mobils still sitting there there was a reason but I just don't remember what it was I mean I think the ft cover us I think we're trying to I'm I'm trying to figure out why we're trying to bend over backwards you guys want you see access I'm just saying from a property value standpoint we the property values of Pasco County are maximized with modular and attaching not mobile homes yeah that's right exactly all right I'll stop beating dead horse you going the wrong way make it six feet 3 and2 ft I would move that we find the proposed ordinance and Amendment consistent with the Pascal County comprehensive plan and recommend approval to the board of County Commissioners very well worded a second we have a motion and second further discussion all in favor signify by saying I those like sign thank you home good job I can't believe nobody stuck around for you got my song m in here you did yeah when you weren't looking Barbara was hanging in there I thought I thought Barbara was going to say something but let you know positive because she two of these modifications were based on some things that she had brought up so I would like to make one other motion before there's a motion to adjourn okay go ah ahead and that is that the Planning Commission recommend to the Board of Commissioners that Mr Goldstein be commended for his efforts on the live local uh statute this year at the legislative session in Tallahassee although his attempts to have the Senate Bill modified failed he did get it through the back at least a portion of this through the back door in a budget Bill and Pascal County now at least for a year um can opt out of the 80 to 120% Ami am I saying that correct David that's correct but I and I appreciate the thought but I would be remiss to say that I mean yes I was instrumental in part of that but there was a lot of people pushing for that our board itself as you know there's a lot of press about that and so I I appreciate the thoughts but I to say that I was unilaterally the one reason that happened I think would be not totally accurate we had there was some help we had from some very influential people in Pasco it wasn't just me so I appreciate the thoughts Mr Moody but I would I would I wouldn't feel comfortable accepting it because I still think your effort your efforts are commendable we'll call it for your part okay and I'd like to second the motion thank anyway so so since since we're in discussion with a second can you explain just a little bit more than about what yeah so it didn't it so Mr M is correct it doesn't affect the land use part of live local which is the part that affects you all the most because you all see the live local conditions we come up with um we still that's still ongoing concern for us but the tax exemption part of it is as you all know our board has significant current concerns with giving a property tax break to basically market rate rents we're not providing any meaningful affordable housing these were apartment complexes were already built so they weren't even increasing the supply of housing at all and we were having to give 75% tax exemptions to them you know and that impacts funding the sheriff funding you know that guy got up and complained about this project not funding the sheriff well the state legislature came in and said all brand new apartment complexes don't even have to help fund the sheriff so as you can imagine our board wasn't happy um we threatened to sue finally got somebody's attention Mr Moody's correct it didn't happen till the end of the session but we did get some attention of the intercession and it did make it into the tax bill and so it it's a provision that allows the counties if they meet certain criteria in What's called the shimberg study done by University of Florida sorry j the University of Florida not F yeah they got they got to have some concession so they do a report annually on um affordable housing that report shows that Pasco County and the whole Tampa Bay M SAA actually has a surplus of housing in the 80 to 120% Ami range which means this whole theory that there's a missing middle Pasco doesn't have a missing middle right the extent we have an affordable housing it's below 80 it's not the only counties in Florida that have a quote missing middle is Miami Dade Broward County and maybe Palm Beach and Monroe it's like four counties in southeast Florida and in my opinion this entire law should have just been directed to those four counties in southeast Florida and leave us alone yeah you said that right away so so it's not perfect but it does allow Pasco County to opt out because we currently have a surplus I'm a little worried what's going to happen in the future if we don't show a surplus but but you know for now we do um and so I think it's a step in the right direction and we're hoping that maybe next session we'll get some relief on the L use side too so that we're not having to give up our commercial and industrial property for housing that's for residential housing that's off the tax roles so um the fundamental flaw of the law is I think that Southeast Florida has a problem and because they have a problem somebody thought it was a good idea to make that problem the entire stat St right right yeah okay so we have a motion in a second any discussion on the motion and you're not allowed to say anything all in favor signify by saying I I post like sign don't you dare good okay thank you car we appreciate your efforts yes much deserved anybody want a Chomp before we leave I got one make a motion motion to adjourn Mr chair second second all in favor hi hi okay thank you [Music] everyone [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] Pasco County waterways and Wildlife depend on you to keep them healthy excess fertilizer grass clippings trash oils and pet waste wash into gutters and storm drains when it rains storm water carries these pollutants directly into our lakes and rivers creating an unhealthy environment for fish water foul and other Aquatic animals storm drains are meant for clean rainwater most other discharges are illegal if you suspect an elicit discharge please contact Pasco County Department of Public Works at 7278 34361 one so you sign up for Pasco County's special needs registry that means you have a bed at the special needs shelter if you want one right nope registration does not guarantee you a bed at a special needs shelter it's simply registration not a reservation you should register with the Pasco County Special Needs program before hurricane season begins and you can register right on our website just go to Pasco emergency management.com and click on the special needs link then if Pasco County calls for evacuations and you live in an evacuation Zone we will call you to find out if you plan to stay in the special needs shelter and Pasco County Emergency Management will provide transportation to and from the shelter if you need it so remember planning ahead is the best way to keep everyone safe the