##VIDEO ID:iymyILc904g## okay any other discussion all in favor I I oppos motion carries all right so we're going to move on to pc7 and I I don't have a the clicker but um we'll move through that so it's pd25 7818 this is for HCM Hospitality LLC um it's for a change in zoning from a C2 General commercial district and mf1 multiple family medium density District to an mf1 multiple family medium density District the parcels are located on the east side of US1 19 approximately 950 ft south of State Road 52 containing approximately 4.44 Acres the subject location consists of of a hotel which is lav Vista Inn and 36 multi multif family on the rear of the property uh the applicant proposes to convert the hotel into dwelling units in conformance with the mf1 multiple family medium density standards for development on August TW on August 10th 2021 the uh Court heard a case um in the Court's judgment there was a um stipulated term of agreed judgment between the county and HCM Hospitality which is included in your agenda packet which requires the applicant am among other things to change a zoning and receive development approvals to use the rooms on the property for Extended Stays for guests so on the on this item it comes to you also with uh with deed restrictions um which is your on your agenda memo item number two that basically states that the applicant for itself and all subsequent owners by acceptance of a deed restriction to any portion of the property acknowledge and agree that the property is not eligible for the ADV valorum tax exemption in 1961 1978 Florida Statutes also um I think that's the only D restriction we have on that one and so as previously stated this is uh formerly lav Vista in if you look at the zoning so the Eastern portion of the property is zoned to mf1 and then the Western portion of the property is Zone C2 which is um the the hotel units um in the front at one point in time there was also and it's been out of business for many years but at one point in time there was also a restaurant at the front um which was um where the where the actual office for the hotel was located U the applicant has stated that they're not going to be using that they're going to be using that to be like the leasing office for the apartments but he can speak to that Mr prman is here to speak on that item and I think I've talked to it's not adjacent to any Trails there is a voluntarily agreed upon deed restriction which I read into record a few seconds ago go and the recommendation is that the U Planning Commission uh recommend approval to the board of County Commissioners on this item okay thank you Denise you're welcome I guess before we start the public hearings for those of you that are here I should have done this at the beginning but public hearing procedures for the meeting for the applicants and for anybody wishing to speak on an item um if you signed up before the meeting you'll be called when it's your time to speak applicants will be limited to 5 minutes and other participants will be limited to 3 minutes unless additional time is approved at least 24 hours in advance of the meeting and I don't think we had any of those um when you come up to speak um you come to the podium please make sure you acknowledge that you've been sworn and give your name and address and obviously we'll know what item you're here to talk about and once you get up there your three or five minute timer will start so that being said uh the applicant for this item Mr prman uh good afternoon Mr chairman and board members my name is Todd prman I've been sworn uh my U location or uh office is U 2002 South number 451 in St Petersburg U I believe that Denise has presented this uh what is proposed before you quite well I would say to you that this is really ini isue is about affordable housing and quite frankly has become a hurricane Refuge issue as well uh the major change here as Denise has indicated is that uh under the current zoning operation the period of stay is 28 days the purpose of the resoning is primarily to allow it to to uh have a period of stay Beyond 28 days uh I'm not aware of any opposition that has come in uh nor anyone online uh the applicants are here as myself uh is and we're happy to answer any questions or concerns you might have okay thank you is it your plan to raise the apartment complex and build a new apartment complex or renovate this it will remain as is it's just the use of the rooms will be allowed to be a longer term are all of the rooms equipped with like kitchen and that kind of thing they will be required of course to meet the housing code for unit okay so I want to clarify the statement you say remain as is my understanding from staff is that it will need a new site plan approval and building permit so it can't just remain as is yeah we'll have to meet of course we have to meet under site plan we have to meet all uh requirements under code if not they'll have to come back for variances or for variations or or waivers of whatever is required certainly yes sir and these will these be shortterm term rentals what was the question these be short-term rentals or rentals longer than seven months they will exceed 28 days they will exceed 28 days yes sir okay so potentially shortterm and longterm yes sir shortterm to be clear short-term is a defined term in our code yeah that requires a special approval I don't think that what they're proposing does not mean that definition of shortterm okay is that that all you got John for now for the moment okay is there anybody here or Todd did you have anything else is there anybody else here to speak on this item okay that being said uh anything else from up here so for Todd question for the county attorney there's this stipulated terms of agreed judgement if we were not to rezone this property to mf1 would that put us in violation of that judgment agreed judgment assistant I don't believe so but Miss Rodriguez is go ahead assistant County attorney Jessica Rodriguez for Pasco County um pursuant to the agreement that was signed in 2021 they only way they can use extended St more than 28 days is if they go through this process if if they don't they have to follow whatever Florida statute requires which is 28 days or less is the only process resoning to mf1 or could they use the conditional use in C2 because they're in the West Market area that would have been a possibility however then they would have then there would be half of the building for half of the property would be Zone to mf1 and then they would have a conditional use over the C2 right and but that would allow them to do what they want to do that's correct yes and then we could apply conditions to the conditional use rather than just accept a ukan zoning District as is that is correct would the applicant have an issue with that can I ask you to repeat that please so in Our Land Development code in the C2 District you can request a conditional use approval for multifam so long as and I think there's three criteria for that one is be located in the West Market area which you meet that criteria would you have a problem accepting a conditional use rather than the ukan resoning district we're here Mo to move forward with the uh rezoning before you today so that's a no that that's correct we've been through the process we're here we have staff support no one from the community's opposition we think it's a good way to proceed appreciate your uh consideration thought sir okay I just commissioner Moody if the concern is that you think there should be some conditions there is a deed restriction that is going with this resoning so if there's something particularly concerned about you could ask the applicant if they're willing to agree to some additional requirements in the deed restriction well that would probably be all of those terms of that agreed judgment the problem that I have is this property appears to historically I don't know whether it is today but historically it's been a nuisance it's been a big problem and I'm not hearing a proposal to raise the facility and build a new affordable housing complex which I might not be opposed to and I'm concerned that all we'll do is create some lowbudget efficiency apartments and continue to have the same historic problems on the property that we have except now they can legally stay there for more than 28 days whereas if we did this as a conditional use then we could the benefit for the county of it being a conditional use is that if the applicant chooses not to manage the proposed apartment complex or affordable complex whatever we're calling this in accordance with good standards of practice a conditional use can be revoked it can but if if there were similar requirements eded in the deed restriction we have other we we can enforce the deed restriction as well so but is it quicker to revote to enforce a deed restriction or quicker to revoke a conditional use I'm not sure which is quicker I mean I meaning Miss Rodriguez the more efficient process um I'm going call Miss Rodriguez back up because I my understanding though is that the applicant is currently in compliance with the judgment that's correct so to the extent they were not in compliance I guess the question would be what would what would be the how would you enforce that if they didn't comply with the Judgment we'd file a breach of contract which would be similar what you'd have to file for the DED restriction I mean that's correct similar was filed already correct coule years ago to enforce the Judgment which would be a legal proceeding that's correct within the six circuit r of a zone of a conditional use would I don't know if that comes back to the Planning Commission but that's a board action that's a board action correct yeah I I can't tell you which is faster or slower they're just different processes so um but all my only point I mean yes you you in theory could deny the request and ask them to resubmit as a conditional use the only point I was trying to make is if there was something in particular that you wanted to make sure was enfor an enforcable requirement we can enforce the deed restrict can I can I just interject quickly go ahead okay so the agreement is going to stay in place regardless of whether it's zoned as a multi family or if you do a conditional use they're still required to do the terms of the agreement I or if the application stays commercial it still stays in place it still stays in place from a zoning perspective it's been the policy since the live local Act was imposed upon us or it's been our position here in Pasco County that we don't want to see our job creating sites our C2 sites turned into apartment complexes correct and affordable housing complexes this seems to go against kind of the the policy we've been pursuing so the reason that I suggest the conditional use is that still allows us to potentially preserve this in the future because I look at the age of this facil in fact I can tell you I lived here when this facility was built I remember when it was brand new damn you're old yeah so so that concern is it's a legitimate concern and that would that cannot be addressed with a DED restrict because you would be changing the zoning right that's so you it's harder to unwind that if that's concern seems to me a bit a bit inconsistent but yet there's still a way to allow the applicant to do that and it seems to me that that process allows the county a little bit of extra security to make sure that what we're being told we're going to get is what we get I think that's fair given the history of this case may I respond Mr chairman yes I I would suggest to you that allowing it to move forward today would bring more stability to the site as you've heard from the staff uh the uh owners and managers have brought the site into compliance of those concerns and have continued to do so um any of these issues as you well know is a long road to get here and get done but I will add that this is a site that is the last resort of affordable housing and now hurricane refuge and what's occurring in the county for these people sort of at a last Refuge is they will go somewhere for 28 days then they have to leave they go to another place then they may come back they H have to unfortunately it's a terrible way to live but unfortunately that's the way some people are having to uh address and live their lives we're trying to make that better we think this is a good example you still have control over it we've gone through a lot of Hoops to be here today and without any opposition with the public and support of your staff we would very very much appreciate your recommendation of support with all due respect we've had lots of affordable housing developers in here that are building nice new complex with Recreation facilities and swimming pools and neighborhood parks with the greatest this is taking an old motel and turning into a bunch of efficiency apartments I'm not sure I call that affordable housing and I think your application was filed long before there were any hurricanes so I was going to say disingenuous by saying that because this application was filed you know the hurricanes happen the last two weeks I understand that's an issue now potentially but this this this wasn't to address a hurricane shelter issue no it certainly was not I mean to imply that my comments were in the fact that it has now become that because of circumstances this was fought a long time ago um so can I ask question in regard to aord okay you keep saying that it's affordable housing but there's actually no commitment anywhere in this application that this is going to be affordable housing there's it's just a resoning to mf1 so have you have you obtained any grants from our Community Development Department to ensure this remains affordable I mean I you keep making the statement over and over that's affordable housing but I see nothing in this application that commits it to be an affordable housing project we're happy to include any restriction to confirm that and hold that uh as a use on the site well I guess well let me just add to that okay so one of the things I asked after to include in this agenda memo was how much You' how much you'd have to be paying an impact fees to convert this use to residential it's $1.4 million yes sir if it was an affordable project why didn't you ask for some affordable housing reduction for your impact fees we have that is available but you just let staff put 1.4 million in there and apparently you're happy to just pay that the uh conditions and restrictions uh I sent over to the applicant and asked them to review those certainly if there's ability to Res to reduce those we will pursue those okay but so you just saw the 1.4 million and never said your your client just said that was okay just to pay it I referred all the documents to the client and made sure that they reviewed them and make sure that they were comfortable with them yes sir okay so anybody else up here I'm just not really clear whether this is an affordable housing project or not but but okay sounds like a sales pitch to me I'm just saying that most affordable housing projects that that come into the county and they're seeking approval as an affordable housing project yes sir they try to take advantage of either grants or reductions of impact fees they they there's a lot of things they do to make the project affordable typically an affordable project wouldn't want to be paying 1.4 million in Impact fees because then they got to raise their rents which probably makes it not affordable so you're coming in here saying it's affordable but you haven't done any of the steps that a normal affordable housing applicant would do to make sure it stays affordable the other thing David is I think when people move into an affordable housing complex they sign a one year lease not a 28 day Le this sounds like we want to have an extended stay hotel that's see what it is and I'm not necessarily opposed to that if you want to build a brand new extended stay hotel I might be on board with that this area is blighted could use some nice Redevelopment just doesn't sound like a Redevelopment sounds like a conversion to technical conversion so that you can allow people to stay on the property longer than 28 days that that is precise nicely it this is a affordable housing of Last Resort of single efficiencies single efficiencies for people who can't afford a brand new affordable housing complex with a pool uh and amenities and one two or three bedrooms that's just the reality of how some people uh have a choice how they have to live again as a last resort so my question primarily to you is if it was an affordable project why didn't you go through our Community Development Department seek grants seek impact fee reductions would as far as I know every affordable housing project in the county that comes in as an affordable housing project does that what I honestly I reviewed this before it got here yes sir you getting up and telling me it was an affordable housing project was the first time I ever heard of it we present it as an affordable housing project by virtue of what is is on the site and what the product is which is a very small I'm going to say again Last Resort product for people who are in Dire Straits whose next step is probably homelessness it provides housing for a group of people that are in dire circumstances that's what's on this property based on prod property it doesn't sound like those are the people we wanted to be housing well those people need housing and and circumstances also arise first of all in people's lives uh following through n of social support and again one example that we've had in the last several weeks are people losing their homes and needing a place to live immediately at least for a short term or longer term over 28 days these things happen we're all very lucky that we can afford a nicer place and a higher level to place to live I acknowledge the need for affordable housing I acknowledge there's a need for affordable housing in the county yes sir my question to you is how does your client plan to pay the $1.4 million in Impact fees and still keep it at the as affordable as what you're representing I I can have them respond to that but I will also tell you that as soon as we leave this meeting today I will work with them to pursue those elements or pursue those Pro um possible U areas of that didn't occur to you when you saw the agenda memo and saw that it was you need to go one .4 million in Impact fees to do this conversion my easy answer is to you I receive the staff reports I ref riew everything on zoning sent it to the client and tell them to review it very closely and be sure they're comfortable and double check that they are I mean I mean the financial element freshman I mean it sounds to me like if they're comfortable paying the 1.4 million you need to go do some homework with them and and do the get some kind of reduction and have them put that money back into the place to to upgrade the facilities correct nor normally only makes sense for an affordable housing developer to get the margins that they need on that development by getting some of these uh grants and some of these um I guess uh things that the county affords them to be able to receive for affordable housing affordable housing credits and so forth and if you're not taking advantage of that I don't understand how the margins work what I would suggest with all due respect as your consideration to consider moving this forward as a recommendation and we will immediately I immediately have the applicants work with the county to pursue those uh programs you know I'm not sure that I'd want to give up the commercial development we with all due respect out to make this a multif family development like I said if you were promising me a brand new shiny brand new multif family development that was deed restricted for the next 30 years for affordable housing I might look at that different but there's no guarantee here you come up and you make that claim today and there's no guarantee that when you leave here tomorrow that that's what we'll actually get is it really what's affordable or what we can what we can get out of the people right I don't I don't know how you reduce the end cost for the people that are living there without taking full advantage of all the credits that you can get through affordable housing that's that's you made a statement that you're willing to make a commitment to to be affordable are you talking about 60% of Ami 80% of ammi 120% of Ami what affordable affordability commitment are you as I understand it's percentage of the uh area uh of the Ami which I think last time well and I I I know what that number is in Hillsboro and St Pete but uh it's the standard of affordable housing um you understand there's different there's different tiers of affordability say again sir different tiers of affordability yes sir so which tier are you committing to if you're saying it's affordable housing you should know what tier you're committing to I I can ask the applicant and ask if they have an answer to that yes sir if you would like that I'm you're the one here today you are the applicant I'm asking you what I'm year are you committing to I'm a represent for the applicant I can bring the applicant up to answer question they're here yes okay well let's bring them up then just REM reminder we we do need your name and address and then we need you to acknowledge if you've been sworn my name is Jan Patel and I haven't been sworn okay to speak over here you have not been sworn to speak okay so if you can raise your right hand and the clerk will are you in do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you gu yes I do okay I'm sorry what was the question so your representative has stated that you're willing to commit this is an affordable housing project my question to you is what tier of affordability are you committing to okay I am not aware of what uh the tiers are right now but the reason we are doing this is we have a lot of workers who works around the area and they are staying on the property and it is so much inconvenience for them to move here and there so we've been getting a lot of request that if they can stay over 28 days okay so because they are not finding what is what is the monthly rent you're charging currently uh we it it depends if they are uh going to the apartments areas it's a different pricing and the regular rooms about 250 to 300 a week so you're charging but as a hotel you know the other fees are also inured of the cleaning and everything so for and what about the apartment uh what's the cost on the apartments monthly uh it's 400 a week 400 week 1,600 a month roughly yeah and you're you're comfortable with the $1.4 million of impact fees that's no sir because we were not aware of these options that were just uh given that how can uh we are even eligible to get those uh you know reduced or anything cuz we were told it was going to be like over 50,000 or more and uh it it comes down to this and we still looking for help but we didn't know that this options is available to us so how will you fund rehab of the apart of the motel units to Apartments we're going to go through all the housing standards sir uh that's what we have done so far that any housing he's asking how how can you fund that how can I F what's the source of funding do that we have a potential partner who is willing to do that who is already in the industry uh he has done a multiple uh affordable housing in Orlando area so they are willing to partner with us and help us guide through this process and is this going to be the same would you turn each room into its own living unit or would you combine the rooms to become living units however the plan is going to come down to and the housing standard that we have to meet whatever and safy safety standard whatever we have to meet we're going to have a plan accordingly that and the partner who is willing to partner with us uh the company they have a substantial experience in that so they can guide us through this process but our as as far as we go we were the only concerned about if we cannot change the zoning he cannot partner with us so that is the first step that we have to take and that is why we are standing here in front of you well I offered another Avenue to get where you want to go is that necessarily a problem with you I'm not sure that would uh you know will be closer to the potential uh investor that we have partner that we have can support his model or not I'm not 100% sure about that sir well I'm not not understanding you're looking for an entitlement and we can give you that entitlement without changing the zoning we can do that through the conditional use process that entitlement allow them to do exactly what you want to do but it also allows the county to retain the potential entitlement for commercial Redevelopment which is what I'd really like to see here on this property Denise this goes to the BCC and next week that correct this goes to board County Commissioners um yeah it says 10:22 but it's actually not I don't believe it's on the agenda for 1022 okay when did you first team up with your Redevelopment partner was it during this application process or was it before right before that a few weeks ago I mean we we've been in uh talking to him about a couple of months so we looked at his projects and stuff what we he has done so far and it kind of interest uh us you know what he was offering and that would solve our problem too as I said we have many people there are willing to sign the petition that uh they can stay longer over there and I'm talking about families with the kids we have a bus uh bus bus is coming over there school buses right and people still have to move here and there every 28 days so which is very difficult for them so it's going to solve both of the problem we going to have our steady cast stream that what is we are doing right now and it will solve the long-term problem for us and for them the reason I asked was because I would expect a Redevelopment partner that's experiencing affordable housing to have thought about some of these credits and um I think one of them that he thought about was denied to us I think before that I'm not 100% sure cuz he's in the loop with this and we did uh email all this subject to him so if he's uh open to any of the credit he would let us know so the rear portion of the property is already zoned multif family and that has apartment units on it that comply with the building code and all of that yes sir those 100% occupied we we are using that as a hotels because we have that supplemented agreement for 28 days but so I'll ask the question of Staff or County attorney if they have legitimate apartment units located in the multif family zoning District there's nothing that stops them from making rentals longer than 28 days on that portion of the property so then what's the need to rezone the front portion the only thing I can see though just by looking at the Aerials it looks like that zoning cuts that back building in Half it looks like it goes right through the middle of that building does it that's accurate yes it it cuts that building in half and they have presented to us that their new model is for Extended Stays stays that are longer than what um the state shows as transient lodging for hotels basically C2 allows hotels of use it does not allow permanent or longer term residential use correct unless they take advantage of the conditional use initially use for mf1 yes you may you may want to ask staff why they supported the mf1 route versus C2 I don't they may have an opinion on the issue versus conditional use correct because we our opinion was that that is the cleanest way to do this because then you would basically have a portion of a rear of a building that has some conditions under conditional use where you have a portion of another building that is under mf1 so in the applicant would literally have to rezone the property to C go through two processes rezone the property to C2 or that portion of the property that maybe not the entire property because there there's some um kind of like low-lying areas in the back but a specific area of the property to C2 and then do a conditional use over the entire parcel I mean in theory it would still accomplish the same thing though by having a conditional use on the the front part of the parcel and leaving the M MF portion alone correct it would just not have the condition it would not have any conditions on that rear portion right right which it doesn't now which it doesn't today correct nothing any different that that is accurate right my particular issue is that if we use the conditional use process it allows us to impose conditions which we can't do under a ukan district that's a pretty heavy commercial Corridor right there on the corner 52 and 19 I mean it C2 makes sense for that front portion I I I agree that's my thing and I mean we've been we've been here continuing to you know beat the drum that we need to preserve our job producing sites you know we've been defending the county against the live local act here so that we can preserve those job creating sites and then here we want to give it away as a matter of convenience for someone that has historically not been a good neighbor well the county has worked its hard work and the site is in compliance and the folks have responded they fixed those issues I I think with the greatest respect they keep stating that they've had a bad history uh it's better to think that they have worked hard worked with the county obviously work with the county attorney and settle these issues um I would also suggest call over to the Sheriff's Department there's been no call since that stipulated judgment because I can tell you I passed this on my way home and I regularly see sheriff's deputies out in front of this place well I don't know why a car or two may be there sir certainly I don't but certainly bringing in a longer term stay will bring more stability to the site yeah if it was one year leases maybe but so what what would be if the board was leaning that direction not saying they are but if they were leaning direction of applying a conditional use to it as opposed to the rezoning what would be the way forward from here would we have to make a denial on that current application or can we still move this forward today maybe we need to ask that question of David but I do want to clarify that the board hearing for this one it it is showing that it's 1020 2 but at on 10:22 we're asking for continuance to December 10th okay I I would ask I would ask Denise the same thing so I can have them immediately look at the affordable housing programs the county has yeah I mean I think it would be difficult to move this forward as is because I mean there have been instances for example when somebody sought resoning for a higher zoning district and we recommend approval of a lower zoning District but in this case it's a completely different application for conditional use it's and you need time to draft conditions yeah I I don't it's a different standard of review I I I don't I don't think you could proceed with this current application if you wanted to go the use it have to be some at a minimum it would have to be read vertis as a conditionally use application not saying staff needs to charge them a new application fee or anything like that would be at staff I I couldn't put words in Denise's mouth but at a minimum it would need to be read advertised as a conditional use and then Mr gson you would be suggesting would come back to this board if that was the case I guess it would come back to us yeah I I don't think I don't think it'd be appropriate for the board to be acting on something that basically a new application that never went to the Planning Commission so yes it would come back to even I think staff would I mean put aside the issue of the fees because I'll let Denise tackle that issue um but effectively it would have to be Ren noticed new agenda memo treated as effectively a new oblation we' have to view the conditions anyway so that's yeah you would need Liam would have to write this up as basically a different application and it would to be Ren noticed or make a recommendation filing them we'll move forward the board of count Commissioners I think there was a lot of good points made up here and just um this is valid I mean the point there is a third option which is that you could continue it and see if they can come up with deed restrictions that would address your concern but I'm not sure they're going to address underlying concern about losing the C2 right it might to address things like affordability you know like I said I i' think I'd feel differently if you were coming in here and you were proposing to bulldoze this place and build me a bright shiny new complex this is something that was built in the late 1970s or early 80 or it's way past its prime we're coming in here we're going to do well I don't want to I don't want to accuse you of doing a bad rehab job I haven't seen rehab plans here but I'm not guessing that I'm going to get something that looks bright shiny and new when you get your ability to do Extended Stay this is an area that's blighted it needs new Redevelopment and I would like to preserve that job creating opportunity in this area but I'm still offering you a way to do what you need to do or at least I've thrown that out there I'm not offering any nobody's made a motion so yeah I I tend to agree with you um you know we that's an area that we keep talking about wanting to re we need Redevelopment in the western cor Western Corridor and it's we're not going to do that by doing things like this I don't think so that's that's my issue as well anything from over there Chris Chris I just don't see it I mean with the impact fees the way they currently are I mean if this is truly an affordable project I mean it's just it doesn't pencil out I mean there's no way it's going to pencil out so I think there's a lot of considerations the application needs the applicant needs to needs to think about um I don't know that two months going in front of the board gives them that we have ch we have cheer organizations that send people to this location I'm trying to impress upon the bo board what this site serves for but this is this is the first time that either the the County's attorney or staff is hearing that this is a as you're selling it an affordable housing project I mean I guess that's what that's what's really concerning to me is that doesn't appear you made any step to go through our Community Development Department to ensure this was treated as an affordable housing project I I understand your point and the rents that he's charging in the back I'm not even sure if they qualify as affordable or not okay so I mean those were close to market rate 400 a week so you're throwing around this term but that's that term has meaning to the county yes sir okay and the level of commitment you're going to make on affordability would is important if it's going to be treated as an affordable housing project which you haven't sounds like you have a partner that's used to doing that maybe but it doesn't sound like either one of you did anything to move that step forward of course we came forward uh with the U existing site and its obvious obvious marketability so that's what we did come forward with I understand your concerns Mr it seems like this this whole application was born out of an enforcement action not out of a desire to create a true affordable housing project um I with respect I as my understanding dealing with the applicants is uh they were working towards those Solutions and then this was a different direction for them to go which they felt would be more stable uh and I think there's Merit to that and there's Merit to what's on the site and what they're providing to this community uh I well understand your points Mr Goldstein I wish I could go back in time and say hey go talk to the county and get this affordable in place quite frankly I don't personally represent a lot of affordable so I'm not terribly part of the reason I asked St to put in the impact fees in there because I actually expected that when it that got put into the memo did you all might wake up and say wait maybe I can't pay these 1.4 million maybe I need to do something I Mr Coulson you made that point quite clear but instead all we got was just the application moving forward I'd like to make a motion I I move we I move we deny this application based on reasons 5 8 and 10 on the resoning attachment second okay a motion a second any other discussion all right all in favor I I oppos motion carries for denial we do appreci your time and consideration we we will move forward and try and do our best to answer the questions concerns of the board thank you thank you okay I think that puts us at APC 13 yes so you want to hear a full presentation Chris do not I just I just had a comment I know this was came through as a comp plan I voted against said then I wasn't comfortable I'm still not comfortable but that's okay I just wanted to mention that okay would you I remember the case too and there was some discussion over whether this would be five acre lots or 10 acre lots and they're five acre lot 5 acre lots and were you was it your position that they more out to be 10 acre lots I mean there's nothing five acres right around on there and so I'm I'm just not comfortable plunking 5 acre lots in the middle of everything else that's out there everything else is 10 20 understood okay and as um as Mr Williams correctly stated it did come in for a complain Amendment and the board of County Commissioners did approve that complaint Amendment on June 4th um from a G which is 10 acre lots to AGR um and that's so this is the accompanying Zoning for the property not sure if you want to hear from the applicant um but what is being proposed is uh 18 5 acre lots on the property I did have one question it mentioned being the rule transition or something like that the ru transition area okay yeah and what's the long-term plan for that um does someone from planning Services want to talk about the long-term plan for the rural transition area PTO Planning Development economic uh the rural transition area is to it is what it the title says it transitions from the Suburban nature of the county that exists to the west and south uh into the Northeast rural part of the county so without a map I'll generally describe it uh the rural transition area comes almost to US 41 on the west it doesn't quite hit 41 um and then it comes to the South along State Ro 52 uh and then it goes east all the way to B Bellamy brothers and maybe it jogs a little bit as it borders um that RightWay uh but all of that is to be transitional land use in other words there are some development types that can enter into the transition area to be close to Suburban densities we've traditionally uh read that and understood that to be and density is anywhere between one and two or so dwelling units per gross acre because the Suburban density would be Res three and the highest or most dense rural density would be res one according to the compant today so the the balance is between one and three at that point so the rural transition area is intended to have this sort of up to two dwelling unit or so density per acre the subject property is kind of on that border between the rural and the rural transition it's closer to that border as opposed to isn't Bellamy brothers the The Divide yeah there's a divide there between Ral trans this is the yeah so this would not be the this was not the first property or location within the RO transition area that had the um was it the AGR classification yeah the AGR classification Ru future landage classification applied to it there are other areas within the rural transition area that have both Ag and AGR um and they and they are compatible with the rural transition area okay thank you Terry Cindy do you want to I'm the applicant may I say a few words correct yes um good afternoon Cindy terap pany uh terap pany strategies I'm located at 128 East Tarpon Avenue in Tarpon Springs Florida I am the authorized representative for sander Ben who is the property owner of this site and you all are all correct um the plan Amendment did go through this board I believe we were here in March and um uh then it went to the bard of County Commissioners for final approval in June of this year and some of these same uh issues were discussed both at your hearing and at the board hearing and what they what the board determined um was that as Mr pedo stated that AGR and AG the five acre lot and the 10 acre lot uh districts or plan categories were both appropriate in the rural transition area um we believe they are too and the plan amendment was approved for 5 acre lots this is a 92 Acre Site it has very little Wetlands about six uh 6 t0 of an acre in two different pieces so really not any uh major environmental issues and 92 acres and 5 acre lots if approved would result in a maximum 18 Lots um but we we intend to go through the rural minor rural subdivision process and that limits it to 16 Lots so that's the absolute maximum that we we could by comp plan do 18 we don't intend to do that we intend to do a maximum of 16 lots and there are two houses on the property today so there's really only a net increase of 14 Lots um and we could have done nine under the old under the old plan category so we think it's a reasonable uh request um with regard to the various lot sizes um in that room transition area there are a wide variety Maybe not immediately adjacent but there is a pretty wide variety of lot sizes I think the most important thing that will tell you that there was um that the rural area folks didn't have a problem with is there were people there at the board hearing I think some of them might have come to your hearing I won't swear to that but for sure at the board hearing there were people from the Northeast rural area there some of the activists that are come to all the hearings and they did not object to this case so I think that um tells you something about it um we also did a while wild life study we think that there may be go for tortoises there but no other listed species so it's not a major environmental site um I think I'll just stop there and see if I can answer any more of your questions we do appreciate your time today just one question which is yes sir since we just heard a case where the applicant apparently didn't read all the findings um just want to make sure that you're aware that finding 14 requires you to improve Johnston Road to County standards and your clients willing that um we're not intending to take access on Johnson Road we already have an access that was uh approved by the county um to Bellamy brothers uh with the and it site H has been improved with that access driveway and a driveway that goes all the way through the property um that's already been approved for the site well if that's the case then okay I'm just reading the findings and this Denise finding three says their access is also to Johnston Road so yeah I think there might be some misunderstanding east of B Brothers Johnson Road is a real Road West of Bellamy brothers which is where this site is on the west side of Bellamy Johnson is is there is no right of way for Johnson Road so we will not we don't touch Johnson Road where our site is located because Johnson Road only exists with RightWay east of Bellamy which we don't touch that so I think there might have been a misunderstanding I I didn't to tell you the truth with all the craziness of these storms I didn't catch that either Mr Goldstein but um I don't I think we need to straighten that anymore sorry it's I'm the only one that reads them um so um Denise if that's accurate and I have no idea if it is then obviously finding three and finding 14 14 would need to be changed because finding three says they're accessing Johnston Road yeah and find 14 says they need to improve Johnston Road to County standards so I don't know if any of our transportation planners wants to speak to that but that is accurate if they're not going to be accessing Johnson Road but we should probably have something stating that they're not going to be accessing Johnston Road because Johnson Road is being shown through that property I mean it doesn't have right away that makes sense well I I don't even know how this language I'm assuming Liam deferred to our transportation folks when he came up with this that's accurate yes language so and is there any need for like a secondary or emergency access yeah it's only at most would be 18 Lots if we totally maxed out at five units five acre lots but we intend to do most 16 Lots so I don't believe you triggers a second the need for a second it does not trigger secondary okay what about interconnect requirements for the lot sizes I assume not cor right well if it's an actual Road maybe but what I'm hearing the applican is it's on an actual Road East of Bellamy it is west of Bellamy it is it is really not I think I I I need to double check this but I believe there might be an easement only across Johnson west of Bellamy to other properties but I'm 99% sure there's no R you a to pull it up on mapper and regardless we don't intend to access it anyway so again we should have transportation staff that can speak to that because it is showing on mapper that that is a road west of tell me doesn't mean that's accurate but it's shown it right correct is somebody online Essen or Stacy somebody want to speak to that yeah but when we do substandard Road go ahead go ahead Stacy oh so I'm looking at Pascal maer and I'm also looking at the Asel records up and the transportation planner that reviewed this uh listed it as um exam so looking at that is telling me that the access will be from Bellamy brothers Boulevard Johnson Road is showing up as a private road and typically when we're reviewing these we tend to um access our collectors or tal or local roadways thank you yeah I should have mentioned that we do have an exemption both to timing and phasing and to substandard Road analysis approved by the county yeah well that's why it's confusing cuz finding 14 says that it's not exempt and again I I only got power back recently just like everybody else so I I have to say I missed it too I I apologize we'll sort of let you off the hook maybe so we will look into finding 14 um and uh but this was based on the information we received from our transportation staff okay okay any other questions I can answer for from up here so so if we approve do we approve as is with that I mean you could approve it with the modification defining 3 and 14 if that's your desire I mean I I from what our transportation person said on WebEx I sounds like it was supposed to be exempt not sure how they said it's exempt and then Our agend member says it's not exempt but it is what it is can't can't you just remove the an Johnston Road portion from finding a Factory well you also have to move remove the second part of one at a time you take three and just strike through the end yes and then 14 you could strike everything after the first sentence and 14 okay yeah so on item three just for the record it would after it states uh Bellamy brothers Boulevard County maintained Aral road with approximately 50 ft of rideway it would end there so period the rest of it would be removed and then on item 14 it would um end at when the paren says ssra or rra 2024 00183 period the Remain the remainder would be stricken okay yes okay I would U Move approval of that with the edits that Miss Hernandez just mentioned I will second okay a second any other discussion all in favor I I I opposed n thank you very much motion carries thank you so the final item is apc1 14 good afternoon Amy tol with Planning Development and economic growth today you'll be hearing a proposed smallscale comprehensive plan amendment in the name of CPAs 2407 Little Road plan Amendment so as stated the proposal is a smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment the applicants proposing future land use change from res one residential one dwelling unit Park Ros acre to calm commercial to allow or on a 3.1 1 two acres to allow for uh commercial development there is also a proposed voluntary deed restriction on this site as well it is located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Jasmine Boulevard and little road so as stated there is a proposed voluntary deed restriction the voluntary deed restriction will include the language to ensure that the commercial site would be utilized for commercial development or commercial uses only and not for residential uses in accordance with the live local um additionally there are prohibited uses that will be uh included in the voluntary deed restriction um as you can see on the screen I can go through them the proposed uses are Standalone car washes uh cabinet and cry shops uh pre-owned vehicle sales or leasing self- storage facilities Standalone warehousing and general storage separate from that required by individual businesses and including sales and office auto repair garages lumber yards Standalone lawn mower sales and repairs mortuaries or funeral homes crematories Standalone outdoor pottery and statute sales or statue sales uh propane Sal septic tank sales and uh installation businesses however propane sales are allowed as a secondary use sod sales shooting and archery ranges uh free standing recreational vehicles Automotive Towing and connective uh storage of vehicles and gas stations um these voluntary deed restrictions as of September 10th were acknowledged by the applicant and agreed to um however on September 30th the applicant has requested to remove the gas stations from this prohibited use uh list Planning Development economic growth is not in support of removing gas stations from this site or from the voluntary D restriction on this site um so given that information there may be a potential uh alternative recommendation at the end of the presentation so subject site is located in the EMB Embassy District of the West Market area and within the urban service area uh here's the context map showing the subject site as you can see it's located at the intersection of Jasmine Boulevard in Little Road uh there is office development to the South the neighborhood commercial use to the west and uh Central guess surrounding low density to the east with higher density to the West there's also Fox Hollow Elementary in the general location so for purposes of depicting the gas station component um we did provide a context map to identify all of the existing gas stations in a f mile radius so as you can see the nearest gas station is to the South which is about a mile and a half away there's 1 2 3 four five gas stations south of that uh to the nearest intersection uh to the north you have about about four gas stations um in proximity within 1.7 to 2.1 miles within this subject site so I'll give you a moment to take a look this is the air areal did I need to go back no I just have a question but I'll wait your down go ahead sorry um so that was the aerial this is going to be your existing Transportation Network again Jasmine Boulevard Little Road intersection there is the Little Road Trail that is located along the site or located along the segment uh here's the visual representation of the existing resan flu here's what the proposed future land use to Cal would look like the subject site I think this is very important to also highlight it is currently zoned po2 which is your office or higher intensity office development zenter District so given the recommendation from Planning Development and economic growth with our proposal we would highlight that it would be consistent with the following policies within the comprehensive plan and we would recommend that the local planning agency find the proposed amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan subject to the voluntary deed restriction prohibiting the incompatible uses however alternatively the pte action uh would be to find the proposed amendment inconsistent with a comprehensive plan should the allowable uses on the site include a gas station so what would be for two years I've been sitting up here beating this horse and I knew this day would come when the voluntary deed restriction was no longer voluntary and now we've got it in writing so Mr so what part of the comp plan are they violating by not agreeing to voluntarily deed restrict a gas station and I'm going to say right now I'm not in favor of putting a gas station on this site but I want to know what part of the comp plan are they Viola would they be in violation of by proposing a gas station here in a C2 zoning District if I assume that's what they'd be going for if we were to change the land use here so it's actually more about the future land use of this scenario so commercial would allow for that full range of General um commercial uses so in the analysis you take consideration the character of the surrounding area existing uses within a certain distance so it's essentially the policy that we're highlighting is 1.10.1 which is your generalized compatibility uh policy but however it's it's more so goal 1.10 and so 1.10 essentially says evaluate your land use evaluate your economic impact evaluate the compatibility of the surrounding area accessibility those types of components and so given given the research that staff has conducted on this site well then why not see one well that was the question I was going to ask is I beat you to it well part of the reason I understand why you're annoyed about the voluntary deed restriction but the only reason that's an issue is because they're seeking C2 and not C1 sure because if they were seeking C1 many of these uses may not be allowed anyway not going to disagree and I will tell you that if they come back here with C2 I won't be voting yay but so I guess I'm just going to ask staff why instead of sort of Planning by admission or or by deletion why why not just affirmatively say we only recommend approval of C1 yeah was there a use in C2 that because they're both compatible with Comm right so yes they are both compatible with Comm however the original proposal prior to the application submittal was for a contractor's office so the the existing zoning district is an office zoning District but it does not permit a contractor's office C2 permits a contractor's office so that's how the initial conversation came to be they were proposing a contractor's office we said okay we'll consider amending to Cal to allow for rezoning to C2 to give you the contractor's office however given that information taken into context of the surrounding area and the sensitivity of the site design we would recommend to align other uses in the zoning district with the character of the area and restrict uses that would not be conducive to that so that's how it initially contractors off be a special exception in a C1 I know that would be two processes no I don't think it is at all it is not no and are there any other contractor's offices in that section of little road good question I'm not sure I drive it every well I I was going to say I drive it every day I don't depends which way I go home sometimes 19 sometimes little road but and I've lived there my almost my entire life no there aren't any [Music] sure so that was the initial discussion kind of snowballed into why we're here now so I do have one other additional question which is the language you have in the agenda memo I'm assuming that's not the actual language of the D District the reason I'm asking is because your live local language is not what we normally use so it is that going to be converted to our actual local deed restriction because I I don't it almost looks like it was intentionally written a different way so that's why I'm asking yeah so that language was recommended by our county attorney's office but yes we would convert it for the deed restriction okay so the the actual deed restriction is not going with this plan Amendment correct it would be going with the future resoning correct if it's going with the future resoning Liam is fully aware of how to write that condition so that answers my question at least that part of my question do we have any other questions no nothing else okay thank you thank you is the applicant present I'm afraid you're stuck with me again today thank you for your attention Cindy terap pany 12 by it's clear that you did read this one because this one I did gas power came back on well you know what happened with these two agenda items they came on late for whatever reason through the county system so it was a little bit of a scramble at the end I will tell you um for all of us not just me but for the county staff too City terany I'm here on behalf of the app applicant who was also the property owner casting LLC um and I have been sworn in I do have um an exhibit we'll talk about it in a few minutes but I'll pass them out now move to receive and file second motion a second all in favor I I oppos motion carries I'm going to really focus my conversation on the the gas station the deed restriction because that seems to be the really the only area that we have so difference of opinion um with the staff um as she said I do want to hit a a couple highlights it is is a signalized intersection of two major roads Little Road and Jasmine it's about a mile south of 52 although it's not technically uh conflict zoning according to the County's definition clearly res one and po2 are not consistent zoning in plan categories you can't do the same things in those PL c those two districts little road is an arterial with six Lanes Jasmine Boulevard is an East West collector and he runs all the way from 19 on the west to Hilltop of Drive on the East the plan Amendment site was previously developed with three houses all of which uh the um property owner demolished they were unfortunately being used by a homeless uh Camp um and the property owner has also started clearing out the site although that's gotten a little slow down due to the storms um but now that these improvements have been made with the houses down and the debris starting to get cleared out the homeless have now dispersed off of the property and hopefully that will remain I would suggest to you that commercial development at the inter section of major streets is a major is a very typical development pattern in Pasco County and I have an exhibit to kind of walk you through that my uh quarter that I looked at was a little smaller in geography than the Cy's uh discussion mine went from about a two mile quar from State Road 52 on the North to Ridge Road on the south and in this section of little road commercial zoning and Commercial development occurs at every major Road intersection some are not all four corners some are some corners but every single intersection the first page of the handout shows that and again I apologize with no electricity you're getting the old school um instead of a PowerPoint today but I think it conveys the information the red uh stars are where you have commercial development at the major intersections there are six major intersections if you turn to the second page starting at the north at State Road 52 you can see all of the commercial development and on the Southeast quadrant of that intersection residential development immediately adjacent to commercial you go to the next page the first intersection is Jasmine that's of course where the plan amendment's located and we have um existing Walgreens at the northwest corner with C1 zoning going to the next intersection of Grove in the Southeast quadrant the VA complex there is adjacent to residential I believe that's the same site you just discussed having the U adult daycare on your agenda today Fox Hollow Drive is um probably a really good example very comparable to Jasmine Boulevard um that intersection has two two corners um developed with commercial uses and Zoning that are immediately adjacent to single family homes the southwest corner is occupied by Circle K gas station immediately adjacent to single family homes and the road along the South there Fox Hollow Drive runs runs along side of the gas station it continues West into the residential neighborhood very similar as you would have at the Jasmine Avenue Jasmine Boulevard location the northwest corner is also adjacent to residential it's Zone C2 but it's currently okay you go to page four the next intersection is Embassy Boulevard or Hilltop Drive this intersection has three corners with commercial uses adjacent to residential the northeast corner is occupied by 7-Eleven next to single family and again Hilltop Drive runs along the south side of those commercial continues East into the residential neighborhood same situation at the southeast Corner which is occupied by Walgreens adjacent to single family zoning and also continue on also located on Hilltop Drive uh the third Corner the northwest corner is occupied by Mobile gas station and an ey Care Center again adjacent to single family development Embassy Boulevard on this case continues past that commercial and into the residential neighborhood similar to the plan Amendment site that we're talking about today and the fifth page Bridge Road and that shows you all the commercial development activity at Ridge at Ridge Road so this is all to summarize that all of the intersections of of major roads with little Road in this 2-mile quarter have commercial zoning and are developed with commercial uses additionally these commercial uses and gas stations are immediately adjacent to residential uses at five intersections that we've talked about excuse me the commercial uses are immediately adjacent to residential at five intersections of those five two of those intersections are developed with gas stations so I did missp can I ask you a question sure so in my experience gas stations are a little more intense of an access management use than a contractor's office [Music] so would your access be off of Little Road or Jasmine that's the first question or both or both and then the follow-up question is can you gain access to either one or both of those roads and still comply with our access spacing requirements uh to answer first well to answer generally we have not done a site plan um to determine ex and we haven't sent that through the county so we don't know what access will be approved we hope to have access one access point on each Road um I did measure the Jasmine one I think it's tight but I think it probably could uh survive you know probably could meet the requirements there to have one driveway on Jasmine and one driveway on uh on little that's obviously why gas stations like to be at a corner because they want to have access to get in and out easily and conveniently as do other commercial uses that's not the only Commercial Business that likes to be located at a corner I will say too there is absolutely no reason for anyone who uh stops at the gas station to continue East on Jasmine unless they live in that neighborhood there's no commercial down there um it does connect to Hilltop and Hilltop does continue North and South but if you are going to go north or south you're going to go back to the light and turn north or south a little Oola excuse me or to Oola you could go to uh to acola yes perhaps I do but I'm what I'm saying is I think that most Travelers unless they live in the neighborhood are not going to turn East and go into the neighborhood um so I guess i' like our transportations to have to comment on that I mean is since that's the use apparently an issue I'd like to know whether that use can work from an management standpoint and I guess the point we're trying me not need any very you know I'm only point out because the contractor's office likely could be just fine with a single access point very low trip generator you know it's probably three trips a day in a contractor's office uh gas station has far more than that so I guess I need to know from our transportation staff whether that's going to cause issues from a access management spacing standpoint is there somebody that can answer that is Essen still on no no he's he's not on any longer we do have uh one person with transportation is there anyone who can speak to access management at the at this location on the northeast corner of Little Road in Jasmine Boulevard what's the depth of this parcel on Jasmine um just a second I can tell you so in the code we have isolated Corner parcel clearances I have to on Jasmine um it's about 250 ft along Jasmine and along little road it's about 462 [Music] feet should I continue or do we want waiting for someone well do we have anybody I doesn't sound like anybody's there that wants to address this we're waiting for someone to jump back on to the meeting do you want to come back to that maybe and then additionally just to let you know we do have two people who have signed up to speak on this matter okay so yeah I you can let the applicate finish their presentation I just need staff to answer the question at some point we'll come back to the trans Transportation yeah and I want to address this contractor's office my client never that was really never an issue that a use that he was considering so I don't know why that is a problem we've already agreed to have that one to be one of the prohibited uses so that's really you know it's not not an issue um I think there was someone else looking at the property before my client purchased it maybe that was the use they were intending but well is is a gas station allowed in C1 or no a gas station is not a permitted use in C1 is a special extion the gas station was the use that you were trying to get here there's a my client is a developer he's not the end user um at the time that we agreed to uh to to put gas station on with the other 16 prohibited uses that we've already agreed to um it was frankly to move the agenda along we couldn't get the case on a public hearing um and number two he hadn't gotten any interest yet from gas station so we thought well let's see if we can get the case moved along we'll see what happens just in the last three weeks a little bit before the storms um started happening there has been interest in gas there's been interest in other retail users there's been interest by other restaurants sit down um um you know things like a Panera or you know a sit down most of those are C1 uses so the the only C2 use gas station that you're seeking potentially wanting is gas station well I'm not sure if the if a bank drivethru is allowed the drive-through portion I'm not sure allowed yes that's allowed the drivethru restaurant Drive portion is allow yes well that's something we can certainly look at as the C1 versus the C2 um we have we're not here today on a zoning obviously we're here today plan but what I'm hearing Steph say is the gas station is not allowed so we still back to the gas station issue this is what we're talking about well the reason no what we're talking about today is a plan Amendment y'all are trying to make a decision on a plan Amendment the staff is saying they're only going to recommend approval if we agree to prohibit a gas station we don't have an end user yet so we don't we feel very uncomfortable limiting that use when we don't know for sure that may be the the use that does take the site with maybe another small restaurant user we don't know but at this point for us to say no to a gas station that we will agree to prohibit it does seem to be a problem you know for my client to do that so that's why we're here I'm only pointing out that if staff they didn't have to go this route they could have just said we're only recommending approval C1 but we're not talking about Z today we're talking about I understand that I understand that but just sort of got to us a little backwards I mean because you made it very clear you want C2 and staff doesn't that's why we have this list of prohibited uses in this agenda memo is is because there was an assumption you were going to apply for C2 if that's truth if there's an assumption you're going to apply for C1 I don't even know if there's an issue I mean because sounds like nobody's well we haven't heard from the public yet but we could cross that bridge when we get to it I I have another question yeah we'll get to you the demolition on this site was done a couple months ago sounds about right when are we getting rid of the foundations uh hopefully this week I mean they've been sitting out there for a couple months now correct the initial sir we just you got to come up to the podium if you're going to speak and have you been sworn sir uh good afternoon my name is Doug Cy I'm the owner of the lot I have been sworn in um my address is 6313 Wild Orchid Drive uh Lithia Florida 33547 okay um okay what was your question again sir about the found about the foundations they've been sitting out there on the I mean we I saw the buildings go down and the sites got debris all over the place the foundations the building concrete debris all over the place it looks like a mess yes sir it is um it was supposed to be cleaned before the storms our original contractor who was doing the demo work went to jail um with a lot of my money and so we've been scrambling to get somebody we have somebody under contract the same person that's actually been clearing the lot um if you're familiar with the lot it was quite blight it was quite overgrown we've cleared out that part you're you're absolutely correct that there are still construction materials there I'm hoping um by the end of this weekend all that will be cleared up okay I will say on that issue that the countyy is having difficulty getting I understand that we're we're in a state of Aer this happened a couple of months ago this has been sitting there like that but that's reasonable explanation I'm just saying that if he thinks this is going to get done in the next week I'm not sure that's an accurate assumption well I tend to agree with you D I understand the situation and then also if if I could just mention so C2 one of the reasons that we wanted C2 was for grocery stores um this lot fits the box for Niche upper scale type grocery stores like Aldi um we tried tra Trader Joe's they weren't interested um but that was one of the primary reasons we wanted C2 as well so we could shop it around to those smaller groceries Denise is that allowed in C1 yes yes that's aoud C1 and how far is it up to from here to 52 mile do you think Aldi would go with a mile separation no I was just saying it fit the buy box and so we sometimes use that as a something like Aldi if if an Aldi will fit in there you know sometimes we can get someone else Den is a convenience store without gas allowed in C1 yes yes so it's the gas pumps that converted to C2 that's that's correct or special exception in C1 it would be a special exception in C1 and by virtue of it being a special exception in C1 it's a permitted use in C2 I'm wondering if this is all solved by just resuming to C1 and then if if a gas station comes along then we can decide that by special exception I agree I I think we we hear you we definitely will consider that and we're not like I said we're not to the point yet of doing the resoning but that's why we're here in our very first step we didn't run the rezoning and the plan Amendment together we're here trying to do this part first we didn't really honestly didn't think there would be such a huge objection to gas station we didn't understand it um amount of traffic been a historic objection to commercial development on that side of little road for the past 30 years well I'm sorry didn't know that history Mr Moody I mean this this parcel has been on the market for many many years in fact I've had several clients that were interested in this parcel and were chased away from any commercial land use or zoning so I mean I'm really quite surprised that this is even here period but we haven't gotten there yet well and I'm just trying to narrow down what the request is because I understand it's a plan stage okay but we have an agenda memo in front of us that has all these list of prohibited C2 uses which kind of implies that you're seeking C2 okay otherwise that wouldn't be in there so if I'm not saying that even C I don't know whether even C1 is appropriate I just want to make sure that when the public gets up here and the Planning Commission is considering this understand it's the plan Amendment stage but I think everybody's going to want to know what is the ultimate request going to be on the zoning side is it going to be C1 which has a very different list of uses than C2 and so what I'm hearing Denise say is that even if it was C1 you could and you say a gas station I'm not saying it should would be approved but it's a se you could do a separate request for that as a special exception I understand everything else that you said so you don't want to do contractor's office right the grocery store I'm hearing is lowed in C1 restaurants are lowed in C1 I don't know what else was in your little about based on the staff memo I'd probably be pretty scared because it says the existing employment generating potential for this project would be increased from a 0.5 floor area ratio which I'm not sure that's true in res one to a 3.0 far well clearly no nobody ever builds to that kind of an F so well yeah but that's the justification we're giving to approve it we're given we're suggested I don't think they could get that with still meet C1 standards but well I'm not thinking that either but if I was a member of the public I'd be a little nervous would it be appropriate if I finish my presentation and that I'm happy to answer any more questions you all have and then of course I'd like to reserve some time for autal if you don't mind because I we obviously have some folks um I hear you about the C1 versus C2 I think we were a little just to summarize we were a little unclear about some of the C2 some of the uses that my client desired we didn't think we're allowed inc1 we're hearing that now that most of those are except for gas so we will take that back we'll take it under consideration I I can't I don't think we're going to make a decision for you today but we we hear you we hear your concern um I just want to say again the staff has agreed that commercial is right along Little Road they said that um Comm Landy designation this is a quote from the staff report is appropriate at this location pursuant to the various policies flu 1.6.2 and it meets the location criteria meaning it's at the intersection of two major roads little and Jasmine we have already agreed to honestly to get to the deed restriction part we really thought the deed restriction discussion should appropriately happen at the res stage I've done other rezonings that did have deed restrictions I'm fully aware how that works and how it's been requested and how it works through the process so I was a little surprised that it was a conversation at this point but regardless we have already agreed to 16 prohibited uses um off of the to include in the deed restrictions including the live local because we do not intend to do Residential on the property the only one that's left now that we we're talking about is is gas we merely ask to be treated the same as other intersection of commercial properties along Little Road and we think that um we would respectfully request your recommendation of approval of the plan Amendment without this discussion about the gas station and Reserve that conversation to the rezoning and the deed restriction stage will you all will see it again and we'll make that decision in a noticed public hearing I do thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today and I'll be happy to answer any questions and of course we like a few minutes at the end um for any rebuttal as necessary okay thank you um is somebody from Transportation on we have them Transportation question who's there Stacy are you are you there uh hey uh good afternoon this is Essen uh Mr gerardi what was the question I can restate it yeah David will restate the question so the discussion Essen is that we're evaluating whether a gas station is appropriate at the northeast corner of Jasmine and little road and the site is shown on our graphic I don't know if you can see it um my question was can can they get access to Little Road and or Jasmine and still meet our spacing requirements from an access management standpoint so spacing requirement I believe on Little Road would be um I'll have to check the table but for an it's an arterial roadway so I believe will be 440 unless the speed is above 45 miles per hour Jasmine would also be at uh 440 if I'm not mistaken I can pull up the table but for for a gas station use and this is purely my opinion if you look at the westbound approach um to nor Northbound you see that there is a merge lane that's there on D Road and the geometry for the westbound right turn lane to go Northbound is separated at that intersection there I believe there the intersection approach design will have to be amended to address a connection to Jasmine bouevard to extend the right turn lane Etc or if the axis off of Little Road even if uh we think about a variation of an alternative standard that whole merge lane issue has to be addressed that would be uh I think problematic because people who are merging to go Northbound are clearing their left side of the and they're not looking at what traffic may may or may not be coming out of a potential gas station site life is there it can create a major conflict point but I in my opinion that westbound approach to Northbound that that intersection design may have to be modified in order to accommodate a a gas station in that location gas stations do draw 70% about 60 70% is all Passive by traffic so a lot of right in WR out movements happen at gas stations that's why I'm saying it may be creating a lot of safety conflicts at this both the locations uh I think if one was to be of the two it would probably make sense to have it at the lesser of the functionally classified roadway which is Jasmine it's a collector little is an arterial um I don't know if Stacy is online if she's got the table ped up but I can if you just give me one second and I'll tell you what the spacing standard is yes I have the table up so for little road or I'm sorry for Jasmine Road at 30 mes hour it's The Collector so it's going to be the 245 and for little road which is going to be at a speed of 45 miles per hour and it is an alterior roadway so that sorry that would be 440 ft yes correct and so does anybody know the depth I mean the the width of the site on yes so a little uh excuse me um Jasmine Boulevard is 253 feet in length along Jasmine the site is 250 ft 3 feet along Jasmine so at 245 it be tight um would be at the Far Eastern end and little road is approximately 460 ft running North and South along the property line um so again the driveway at that 440 ft would be at the very Northern end of the driveway there is a there is an axel Lane Northbound on little today day so obviously that would be reviewed whether it's long enough um as part of the the site plane review process but if you go to 9013 J this is an isolated Corner property which doesn't meet the minimum spacing standards so there's an alternative for these with smaller spacing standards I don't know if yeah I don't know if isolated corner when they've got two access points but maybe so if they I think if they have access to off of little they're not considered an isolated Corner okay yeah if it is at the Northern end of the property it's at the very end of that uh Excel Lane there so it seems like it'd be plausible that could be addressed I guess well I guess you answer my question which is spacing stand don't necessarily prohibit the gas station here there's a potential way that it could work so that answers my question okay just to be clear if I'm understanding them correctly these spacing standards would apply to any commercial development not just a gas station right those so we're talking about that that's a true statement but but my point is that a gas station as Mr Cil said is a very intense use from an access man there's a it generates a lot of driveway trips yes so that was why I asked the question good okay anything else for Cindy I think there are a couple people here from the public that want to speak and then Cindy will have you back up for a bottle Mr chair the per first person that signed up to speak is Joanie Wilson good afternoon my name is Joanie Wilson I live a couple doors down at 9105 Jasmine Boulevard um I appreciate the time to speak and I was sworn in um I just wanted to go over a couple points my big issue is the gas station or any high traffic business in the area Jasmine Boulevard and little road have a ton of accidents for such a small res I mean I know you guys consider it a major roadway for Jasmine but it's residential there's not businesses on that road um just a Google search I found 10 gas stations within 2.5 miles of that site um the closest being less than a mile away I think I know you guys are local so Griffin Park is not far away um that is a high drug use area drug sales we get transients I'm I'm glad the buildings are down even if they are Rubble I'm thankful for that but even with those buildings there we had people in the lot across the street setting fires um the fire department was out recently I feel like it could bring more crime to the area it's just a nuisance area drawing attention to a gas station I it's walking distance from that there's plenty of other gas stations around that you can get to easily um environmentally a lot of the residents immediately around that area have pets agricultural kind of land um the immediate neighbor there has a bunch of dogs I think they have chickens um I talked to at least four other neighbors who couldn't be here who are all very concerned about having a high trffic business at that intersection um I know personally I am not opposed to a commercial business being there um it's little road I mean it's only practical for it to be commercial use um but I just see like I know they talked about not having resident or you know people other than residents using Jasmine Boulevard but we do have people other than residents cutting through there um Oola minola Bass Lake Hilltop people cut through those areas hillt poet even tried um having the speed bumps installed um which I hate speed bumps but I get why they wanted that because we have kids out there in the dark in the morning for bus stops um I noticed that I just feel like with so many gas stations in the area there's not really a need um I saw recently that 7-Eleven is closing 3% of their gas stations due to decreased sales um we're pushing all the electric vehicles so I feel like there's going to be less and less need for that and it's going to draw the wrong types of people to that area right next door or I guess one property over is a a charter school um that is I I know I think Elementary and Middle School um they also have a car line that operates you know twice a day that I think they extended the turn lane to accommodate their car line um so it just brings more traffic to that corner that intersection a lot of people are doing u-turns now to get to the school in the mornings and in the afternoons um is that my timer yeah that's your time he's good and wrap it up it's fine um so I mean I just I know a lot of the residents feel the same way and I totally condone other uses even like a sit down restaurant but anything high traffic like that is only going to cause more car accidents and probably the especially a 24-hour business the wrong kind of people to be loitering in the area okay very thank you thank you Mr chair the next person is Alan Rose good afternoon my name is alen Rose 10221 Hilltop Drive Newport Richie Florida 34654 yes I have been sworn in and I have been communicating with zoning and with uh with all of the objections and the restrictions that apply to this parcel uh it's Brian junker has had all so you should have all of these objections what it is is this property is part of Golden Acres unit one and it it was I don't know when the last zoning change happened but this zoning change I'm here and I'm objecting to it it is uh we have a number of things impaired Waters it it it's drainage squ from this property will affect Bear Creek Bear Creek overflows at every heavy rain down at Oola where be Creek goes under you see that flooding especially with during these last hurricanes you saw it again it it is also uh about certain mineral restrictions on these there's not supposed to be any commercial building on this type of restrictions and that's what this one restricted Waters Basin that's one from where this property is East to to Hilltop where I live all those homes there $400,000 to $1 million do you think we want and I just I just rebuilt my home my taxes went from $1,500 to over $6,000 and now you're going to bring a commercial development and my property I'm going to lose money I'm going to have a serious devaluation in my property if you put a commercial property up there like a gas station uh I'm talking the neighborhood I would see $200,000 off what I would expect my neighbor is going to put his property up for over 700,000 he can expect the same thing to happen to him this type of within Golden Acres and this is part of Golden Acres and it does not have access to little road at this time it is only has access on Jasmine and yes it will definitely impede that turning Lan um there's so much so much you should have it all um I I submitted pictures to show on Jasmine if you go up there there's pictures you got you got time you got another minute but there's pictures of all this if you look up Jasmine from this line you see nothing but OES people think think it's just a beautiful nice tree line Community well behind all of those oak trees what people don't see are our Estates residential Estates and there are beautiful home sites a lot of most of them are going to be equestrian and most of them are going to be res they're all residential and it's a beautiful neighborhood that's why I moved there that's why I invested in this my property you put something like this and I'm going to I'm going to start really raising K because my taxes I'm going to need to hey of 6,000 now let's bring it back down to 2,000 and I I assure you I will raise K this should not happen in our neighborhood that's Golden Acres unit one thank you thank you good Denise is there anybody else signed up that's the last person I had signed up to speak if you want to check to see if there's anybody else is there anybody else here to speak on this item and there's nobody on WebEx there's no one on WebEx very good Cindy do you want to come back up love to come back I'll be very brief because I think we've been talking about this quite a lot um first of all we're asking for the comprehensive plan category we're asking to do commercial we will we have heard you about what you've con heard we've heard the Neighbors about their concerns about gas station we will look seriously at that and and um try to come back with something that we think you would be in agreement with with regard to um the capacity on little road which I know we talked a lot about access driveways there are currently driveways on the site that served residential we will work something out with the county staff if we are allowed to move forward through the rezoning and the site plan process we will work out whatever the county requires with regard to the access points um but with regard to to the volume on Little Road I just wanted to point out that this County did the transportation needs assessment for this plan Amendment we didn't do it we actually asked the county to do it and they found that there was capacity on Little Road till the year 204 five with including uh this site as a commercial site so I don't think the little road capacity is an issue I do understand that where the driveways go and how they affect um the the particular use and the access to the property and safe access I understand that totally but we can't get to that point unless you agree that commercial is the right place the staff has said commercial is the right at this corner I've showed you an exhibit of um six other intersections along little that all have commercial we asking be treated the same way and and allow us to move forward with the plan Amendment come back with the rezoning with the appropriate deed restrictions um with hopefully uh hopefully the C1 zoning district and then go through the site plan process thank you very much for your time and again I'm happy to answer any further questions I'll just make a comment um yeah just general comments not a question so I I I live on like view I drive through here every you know every day pretty much um I I think the you know we're talking about a plan Amendment today um I think we can get into the details of all of the what type of commercial use would be good when it comes to the the zoning portion of it which is what kind of confused me why there were so many of these deed restrictions that were on here uh at this at this stage um but I think commercial makes sense on that corner I'm like I said I live in that neighborhood we know that residential probably doesn't make sense on a six Lane highway on that and so um matter of fact the young lady testified up here just a second ago she'd be the one probably most affected uh being two doors down from that and um I don't think we heard from the homeowner that was actually right next door but you know so there would if they had concerns obviously that could be addressed at that point with buffering and things like that but I think commercial at this stage makes sense um and I say that as a resident of that neighborhood on Lake View so question for staff right now the property's P2 with a res one flu that's in theory a conflict zoning can they develop under the po2 standard today Mr chairman the narus PTO plan development economic growth the po2 zoning classification is consistent with the res one future land use classification per policy blue 165 okay yeah so so they're they're entitled to the full range of po2 uses the all right so the and Derek not I get you I don't think the site is suitable for residential development there was a time when this was Plaza Drive when golden acers was first developed yes these were residential sites when the county opted to extend Little Road North to 52 and make it a six Lane Road who'd want to live there I get that but there is opportunity for development this is still zoned po2 they can have professional offices there they can have business services financial services public and semi-public buildings post office police fire stations libraries museums personal services like beauty and barber shops tailor shops laundry shops shoe repair dry cleaners florists photographic Studios veterinary clinics there's other things that they where they can get some commercial use and income from the site without taking it to the C2 level in the future or the the Comm classification of of commercial development and although I hear the applicants say they want to be treated the same I'm looking at the map and I'm looking at Jasmine and I'm looking at Grove and the vast majority of the these are po zonings so they do fit with the rest of what's G on there and even though at Fox Hollow there is some C too on the west side of little road I would tell you that the owner of the one at the northwest corner of Fox Hollow and little road has been trying to develop that for 25 years that I know of and the problem is the site's so small it's there's nothing you can fit on that C1 use and the Circle K that's on the southwest corner is so small it's basically dysfunctional I don't know if youve ever tried to get in and out of that place but it's not a great gas station site you have the people the people that live in Golden Acres live in a state residential zoning District all right they do have nice homes they have nice properties It's Not Unusual to see someone riding a horse it's not an appropriate location for gas stations and high-intensity Commercial uses the office uses and that's what you've seen I think they like she said you mentioned an iare place I know that's been there forever in a day those things all seem there's been Insurance up and down there those things are kind of fine they're fairly low traffic generators but high high traffic generators I'm just not sure that's the right place but I agree it's not a residential site that makes no sense unfortunately the site's not big enough to be an mpud and I'd almost wish it could come back as an mpud because my bigger concern is for the lot that's immediately to the east of this parcel so if he were to get a C1 or a C2 zoning he's going to end up with a 30 foot setback for a building adjacent to residential agree agree but that doesn't mean he won't have a parking lot right up to his rear property line minus the landscape buffer right so if this guy were to get an Aldi here or some other competing grocery store he could potentially have a loading Bay next to his house a parking lot all the boxes and the generators that go behind grocery stores so I'm not sure that's the right location for that so I just want to make one more comment um it's obviously if the Planning Commission and what we do with the request but in the agenda memo under the planning discussion number two it talks about some access points it says there's an access to little road from 3 it's 395 ft from Little Road and there's three accesses to the site from Jasmine those were for houses that got torn down we just heard testimony from Essen that those would not comply with our Land Development code so right I do not think you should be putting in your agenda memo access points that would that would be inconsistent with our Land Development code so either strike it or say that those access points would have to be removed if it's converted to a commercial use or something but you can't just leave a statement as if those access points would be appropriate if this is a commercial use I'm not even sure they'd be appropriate as for an office use okay pretty close together there on the south side of the property I don't think pretty much guarantee you that s not allow three curb cuts on on Jasmine okay anything else up here and my only other comment is if if I don't know what Planning Commission is going to do on the commercial request but if if you are uncomfortable with C2 you probably would need to direct staff to remove all that language about with the deed restriction with the C2 uses because if that's going to be a deferred issue it should there should not be any language in Theo that implies that it's going to be C2 if you're going to defer that issue yeah that's kind of where I'm at see one it's what you you all need to decide what you want to do with the request to Comm because that's the real issue before you I'm just not comfortable with the Comm and I see that the property can still be developed with some lower intensity commercial development as it is today so it which doesn't necessarily need to be residential so can still do offices and that kind of thing anybody else yeah I I'm with John I'm I'm not comfortable with the Comm land use in in proximity to the estate residential there um so is there a motion anybody wants to make I made enough motions today right well then I'll be the bad guy I'll make the motion to recommend denial of the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment a motion on the floor as our second I guess the motion fails the motion fails is there another motion just to be clear the chair you can second I can't second you can if you want to it's up to you I'm only saying that because you just stated your position you didn't second the motion I'm assuming you would have wanted let me take that back I will second the motion okay okay a motion in a second any other discussion all in favor I I oppose nay nay that's I I can we clarify roll call yeah just to be clear an i means you're supporting denial denial correct that's right [Music] no i n d n Chris Williams nay jamy uh Vice chairman Jamie j i okay motion all right a new motion on the floor all right I'll make a motion to approve the comp plan amendment to com but I I um so um let me pause myself for a second there so what you were discussing David about all of the language regarding the C2 stuff right so all the theed restrictions uh regarding C2 because I I I I still don't understand why that's in this application because this is just a compain amendment I don't think it needs to be in this application I my concern with leaving it in is it it presumes that C2 is an acceptable use if all of these uses were removed and I haven't heard conclusive evidence today that C2 is the appropriate Zoning for this site it may be C1 and even the applicant said they may apply for C1 so it that's kind of where I said I I feel like C you know if it was this wasn't proofed C1 would be more appropriate than C2 so um you know so can we strike that language Al together and I think you can make a recommendation that any language references to C2 be struck from the agenda memo as part of your motion I but I would also ask you that you also add your motion that the language related to the existing access points on Little Road and Jasmine also be struck from the amemo as well if you're going to make a motion to strike stuff okay so that's that's the motion I'll make is to approve with striking uh references as David stated references to the C2 uh zoning as well as references to the access points second okay agree completely with that I think it's you know this is not the appropriate time to kind of debate this this issue it's it's a zoning so I agree with the Comm okay there's a motion in a second any other discussion all in favor I I opposed n motion another roll call or you got it you got it motion carries reverse of the last okay Denise I think that's it correct that was it but I need a clarification David on this one does Chris V vote on this was going to ask that question but CH the commercial um no I understand but it does kind of change it does change the actually does not so if he did I don't I didn't hear whether he did or didn't I did because I always look at it if because it does change density yeah but you're supposed to vote if it's increasing residential density okay gotcha this decreasing and the fact it has a live local restriction means there's no way that it could increase res okay my bad I think in that scenario not blaming you but sure oh it doesn't affect the result of the vote anyway so right gotcha thank you okay anything else from up here motion to adjourn to adjourn motion carries