Philipsburg Town Council work session April 3rd 2024 good evening everyone like to call meeting order Council vice president paus would you please read the open public meeting next statement this meeting is called pursuant of provisions of the open public meeting's law this meeting of April 3rd 2024 was included in the list of meeting notices sent to newspapers of record and posted on the bulton board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as the required notice is under the statute in addition a copy of this notice has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the municipal clerk thank everyone please rise pled Al FL Al to the flag of United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God liberty and justice for allation Heavenly Father we come to you today asking for your guidance wisdom and support as we begin this meeting help us engage in meaningful discussion allow us to grow closer as a group and nurture the bonds of the community amen amen roll call please councilman Clark here councilman Kennedy here councilman scuro Council vice president paulus here council president Marino here public discussion on agenda items before we start that our inspector for inspection fees is ill so he won't be here so hopefully next meeting we can get his report okay any public discussion on agenda items state your name three minutes I want to talk about rent control I'm I live with rent control and thank God because other than that I wouldn't be able to survive I think everybody who rents should have rent control I think if you live in a single home or a a house that has two apartments that you should at least have 5% and anybody over that like the complex say should have a 3% rent control people who don't want to rent people who rent and don't want rent control there has to be something fishy about it because I don't know who wouldn't want to save some money for their own pocket you ask people to vote for you now you should help the people they helped you when they you wanted their vote and you went door to door and talk to them and you put signs in their yards but they helped you because you're sitting up there and you they voted for you but now the people are asking for your help why can't you help them and vote Yes for rent control you don't know what it's like to have a landlord that owns the C uh complexes in the town of peber they got in the town and now you will have to get them out of town or else you won't have any renters because they are terrible to rent from if you vote no for rent control all I can say is shame on you hi my three minutes should be pretty quick we want to speak tonight about the concept of needs we hear from residents about the struggles that they are in and as representing the PDA what we're looking for is a discussion about needs assessment using the population to determine where we can apply the right products the right Solutions so control although an alternative is just one alternative there are other measures that are available through other uh venues that are offered by the local charities that can provide relief for different Affinity groups within Town what we're hoping as a PDA is that we can find those people in need find the right solution for those folks that are affected by increased rents and and use our ability as a town to to meet the need in a compassionate way that meets the needs of those Property Owners as well as the renters in the current configuration as renting units are converted to private entities it reduces the housing stock that housing stock reduction reduction changes the supply and demand and in turn increases the price of rents because of the limited Supply and eventually you'll be dealing with what L pacon has from a 30 to 70% split rent to ownership they're a bedroom community we're not if we were trying to go to that direction it's going to end up affecting primarily and first those people most in need because they're going to find that there's less opportunities to find housing that fits their particular budget so again just to reflect on what we're looking for is a compassionate answer that meets the needs of all participants anybody who's made investments in Philipsburg no we're on a tremendously positive trajectory and our goal from the pda's perspective is to keep that trajectory alive thank you very much thank you good evening uh David Morisette 5 Fairview Heights phbg New Jersey um rank control is on the issue and that's what I'm here to talk about and whether you guys do rank control or not that'll be up to you and you you'll vot your conscience one way or the other but I do think that you need to be frank and honest with what the effects of rank control are going to be if you have rank control particularly on four units or less in the town what you are going to have is a significant number I don't know the exact number but you will have a significant number of people who own buildings in town where they're renting units selling because they're not getting the return on their investment that they could get with being able to charge Market rate rents if you can't charge market rate rents you're going to be better off selling your property now why would I say better off selling your property so in the last year there are three homes one on Chamber Street two on my street that have been up for sale each of those homes has sold for over a half million dollars your average home selling in Philipsburg as a single family home is going for over 200,000 many going for $250 $300,000 if you're an investor you're going to sell your house if you can't keep your rents up to market value now I do have a quick question um Council president uh and the attorney may have to answer this somebody came up to the uh Podium a wildo and they were concerned because their rent was being uh they felt it was being jacked up too high and attorney wner said that there's uh laws state laws I believe that limit the amount that rents can be raised for a current somebody in a uh currently in an apartment and uh I'm sorry Town attorney I don't know your name we B one okay um do you know anything about that uh so specifically as to what he's talking about I don't know I do know that there are uh instances in which when there aren't rank control there are limitations in place Statewide that you can't jack up the prices but um there isn't any uniform rule for that uh it's more of like a case by case basis in court and a reasonable in standard um so this would be something that codifies a specific rule that everyone knows and can follow I think I remember the conversation um and maybe I'm mixing up two different conversations but I thought it was it said that they had to acquire an attorney and then appeal to a certain board at within the state was that is that a process I'm not specific with that I could be mistaken I think I remember what you're alluding to yeah I I I seem to remember attorney wner in order to help out the uh I don't think he was going to do any litigation but in order to help out the residents that see me after the meeting thank you Dave your three minutes is up thank you you're wel full senor Joe Miner uh I sent you all something takes more than three minutes to read um I'd like to refer to that sensible way of dealing with rent control that I proposed some years ago and I mailed to you anybody else want a a copy I will email you um it is I deny that the president rent control as used in this state as practice in Alpha I maybe for thatc I may have the wrong place um is no good uh it's burden burdensome uh my proposal is something that solves the problem we do have competing competing things uh Section 8 well first Philipsburg specifically is where the people who have been displaced move because it's still the cheapest place to go in our area I think we're fifth in the State uh Mr Kennedy I went over that last meeting uh it is the place where the poor people live uh I claim to represent the poor people who don't vote and uh I do my credentials I've had probably more credit hours than any of you up there in economics uh the major problem with rent control is uh that bait and it it does eliminate bait and switch okay you take out uh the bait and switch by allowing of by requiring the landlord to spec specify what he is going to raise the rent to in the following year this eliminates the bait and switch problem they've all heard this folks the second thing uh major thing is that section 8 uh rents are too high they're based on the state standard uh the state stand standard for rent is way higher than Philipsburg we are the bottom not the top so it is forcing the rents to go up too much uh I can't do anything about that I don't claim I can do anything about that as far as public housing this is another thing that's presently used to support the bottom one last statement Joe your three minutes is up okay public housing fouryear waiting list to get into public housing uh anybody El they've all read it if you want to read the specific techniqu you got to stick to the three minutes so refer to everyone anyone else Pi what happens to the people that aren't qualified for anything no assistance no rent assistance and your landlord keeps raising your rent I hear everybody's concern up here tonight about Section 8 programs I don't qualify for none of it okay so I bring in 2,000 a month or my rent 1,700 how do I feed my family what do I do do I pay my rent do I pay the utilities do I pay for food or do I pack up and live at the river so somewhere along the line we have to do something I'm not a landlord I have a great landlord but we have to do something my rent come January is going up again yes rents here in fburg are way too high I live in a single a single apartment okay I don't have a yard but you're all talking about apartment buildings I live in a single home attached in a row my rent keeps going up and I pay all my you utilities and the sewer the only thing I don't pay are the taxes but you might as well say I pay the taxes but you know something's got to give something has to give the rents in felsburg are too high too too high yeah houses are going for a half a million dollars but who's got that money cuz I sure don't but if anybody wants to loan me some I'll take it thank you anyone else just your name please my name is Walters um I've been in fburg for quite some time I started out as a renter here I bought a home right before the pandemic when things were still manageable I think this needs to be a multi-prong approach it can't just be one thing um I had a very good landlord and I was very fortunate to have a very good landlord and I think the ultimate question is who do we want to be living in Philipsburg do we want investors do we want people from New York City um I hear lots of complaints on the township page about different activities but we're not doing anything to maintain the community that we already have we're not making it easier to buy a home we don't have any kind of assistance programs that are accessible to many people somebody mentioned it's four years to get public housing so like what are we doing are we taxing the new corporations that have come in are we taxing them to get money what are we doing to help people out are we creating new housing I don't see any of that and it's very disappointing thank you anyone else s my name is David Fritz president I just got a question do you uh charge a uh fee for renting houses by land ERS what is that Fe what are we at right now uh $1 $100 is that a year supposed to be supp to we're when the pandemic hit they won't allow anybody to go into home so we're pretty backlogged we're also adjusting our rental fees right now which was supposed to be on the agenda but our inspector isight all right that's thank you anyone else I feel like I missed a meeting here Robin Co um somehow we got to an ordinance I thought this we were in a conversation State on this control we're here to listen what's that we're here to listen Okay um this is like not even American what is in this thing I don't know where it came from or who it were I don't know it it it almost looks like it's from another country um I would like to be involved with rewriting this if it ever comes to the fruition but I mean I was shocked to see an ordinance coming forth when we were in a Comm you know just in a conversation State um as far as rents here I was a landlord up until my building caught on fire um and I do feel bad I have always owned a house I I worked I got a deposit and I've always owned something and not everybody is owner there are lots of renters but there are solutions there's there's Solutions um with Norwest cap there's help with deposits if you're able and someone that is willing and wanting to own a house there are solutions in this town um there's housing shortages everywhere in the United States everywhere there's nowhere you can look that there's an housing shortage um do we use all our facilities that we have and does it happen fast enough no you know if it happens real fast then it it's usually garbage if it happens slower than nobody's happy but um there are solutions as Bill said there are facilities out there that that can assist people with their rents there is rental Health it is done by income for those that have problems with income and you just need to connect them to the right places um fburg is the cheapest rent in this area I I looked everywhere locally they're absolutely the cheapest and it it's like 850 to $2,600 I don't think $2,600 is in town okay but Alpha is so the average rate for two F uh two two bedroom is $1600 house Alphas 1697 Bloomsbury 2850 Easton 1695 betham 1997 Washington 1615 we are the lowest I'm not saying it's right but that is what the economy and the market is bringing so what is the solution it's for everybody it's not just Phillipsburg but if you bring it down to the point where you attract everybody that is coming from outside of Philipsburg and you're not helping the people here you're just creating more of a market problem so unless you have a solution where to put people then you can decide what to charging um I am not opposed to renters whatsoever I I my rents have always been under Market most small renters are under Market most small landlords are willing to help people so I I don't know what the solution is but it's certainly not in this paper right here you will chase everybody out of here and then nobody will have anywhere to say thank you anyone else Sean 102 sou Main Street thater I'm a licensed realtor in New Jersey and New York and I'm a property owner of Main Street five bilings there I came to Philipsburg five years ago with great ambition to assist in the work that my former owner Scott KY did for the historic district and here we are talking land control I have three units available since January 1 with no one looking that could qualify because I'm not going to court with tenants you can't pay I'm not going to court with trouble I've been through that many times many years ago and I think you need to understand from the investor point of view what we're up against I came here bought at market price I have a commercial loan because my buildings are in a commercial area I am paying commercial rate for every utility I am on a 5-year arm which is up next month so my interest rate goes from 4% to probably seven maybe eight I have no control over that right where does my renters go I can't put my rent up and then you're asking me for 11% tax hike so we need to reconsider the ordinance I don't know where per and boy came from but that's the city it's not Philipsburg I didn't put my rents up on any of my tenants the entire time I came here but from tomorrow probably I will be attacking on 3% immediately to all my leases because I won't be able to meet that increase everything goes up guys everything goes up and we all know that so I just want you to consider that second thing in my office there's a listing fellow work for $1,200 maybe 12250 for two bedroom apartment there were six people applying for that position in Washington a two-bedroom for 1,800 had 70 applicants what's the difference there's something else going on F I also had a Japanese gentleman working for unit Lo one day away from sending a lease for me went into the new building his new work and they told him do not rent in phsb downtown is way too dangerous and I lost so I'm going to be facing selling too I think it needs to be reconsidered thanks thank you anyone else my name is Christian love Maran I too also moved to filisur about five years ago uh and in that time every year me and my father talk about we'll have a house eventually we'll eventually start saving up but every year my rent goes up at a faster rate than my father and my pay can combine to I am current currently actually facing or soon I will not have enough money for this month rent I have three younger brothers that we all have to me and my father have to combine our pay to feed to provide for to pay for electricity the house all of that we are not able to at this point if the rent keeps increasing in those 5 years it has increased by almost $300 it it's pretty insane if there was some kind of control on that to keep it from raising at an extremee rate every time the lease runs up me and my father might eventually be able to stop renting and get out of the situation we're in and provide a better life for my brothers without it though we are doomed to continue the cycle of constantly being indebted constantly having to worry of do I have electricity this month or do I have food do I have food or do I have rent and will'll never stop thank you anyone else see then we move the meeting there just your name please Adrian Rodriguez 403 South Main street where the bike shop is um so I I want to say that I'm a recent arrival to Philipsburg um I as well as others have you know we're carrying out what we've heard that the people of Philipsburg want to see which is great revitalization of the downtown and bringing businesses back we are on a very strong trajectory and you know apart from that uh I'll Echo what Robin said my family does not come from this country and from where they fled from what the language is identical to what was written in those uh in in that rank control and I'm I'm not new to uh uh rent controls in New Jersey I've read through many different jurisdictions uh municipalities specifically in Hudson County and the language is uh identical so uh to present the uh the points that I'm going to make um you know first of all I think most people recognize that salaries for most people have not gone up uh at the rate that rents are going up um and you know it is tough for people I think inflation affects everybody um including the property owners whose operating costs are going through the roof um we're not even talking about return we're not talking about uh you know rate of return a fair return we're just talking about expenses going up um in Philipsburg there's already a disproportionate amount of Aid available it just needs to be found and allocated to people who need help um and there's also a disproportionate amount of affordable housing already there so this needs to take be taken into consideration um now what we see in Hudson County is so lessons learned from Hudson County of decades in Frank control um you know the the property values of controlled units versus free market are about on a per unit basis are usually around half okay so it affects property value massively um so this you know as we were saying filbur has among the lowest rents and among the lowest property values already so this will continue to hold those property values down um so that's one thing to to take into account um now when your cost taxes uh you know fees go up and you're not able to increase the rent what you see is that property owners appeal their taxes with attorneys and they appeal them on mass all together and they normally win so that means that then everybody else who has a free market or anybody else who lives in the municipality is now burdened with paying more taxes um you know because the the owners of rent controlled properties are paying less because they just can't afford it so it's actually unfair um to to the other homeowners um the units are incredibly difficult to repair you see this from Hudson County to New York City it's just there's no way to get a return and what was proposed in the the rent control language basically forces landlords to improve their properties make a loan to the property at a 0% return just to put a roof or do a a boiler replacement or whatever it may be um according to the IRS mackers uh you know depreciation uh rule you finish your sent just bring minutes um okay so um so the the amount of rental units uh in terms of the housing stock I think this is the biggest thing it drops so you know so much for uh providing affordable housing to the constituents um in fact what happens is that uh the affordable housing uh shrinks and what is left in the market is actually more expensive um so yeah I think uh you guys need to take a closer look at the effects of run control thank you very much anyone else all Chris winess I'm a landlord in town here when I bought properties back in 2018 I had rents that barely covered the expenses I wasn't able to do any repairs I wasn't taking any money out and I was just barely paying the bills thanks to some modest increases in rents I'm now able to make some repairs I'm able to put working appliances into these apartments I still have hav't taken out a dollar but I'm able to make these repairs make a nicer place for tennis make a place that they're happy to go to which quite frankly they weren't when I acquired the properties so the ability to increase rents is what got me the ability to make those changes to make a happier place a safer place for my tenants and now tenants are looking forward to coming in looking at a place and when I show a place people are saying hey this is great this is nice this is really well done that's what we're looking for we're looking for a place where tenants are happy landlords are happy that they're able to provide a safe and nice place for their tenants and the only reason I was able to do that is because I was able to do those modest increases since 2018 with red control we're back to the status quo these places are not going to get repaired we're going to start to see places that are going to go into disrepair basic maintenance will be ignored you're going to find people who are not able to comply with the local Town rules and these are important things that we need to be able to do to keep safe and nice places for tenants but without the ability to increase some rents we're just not going to be able to get there one last thing I would encourage you to take a look at the work group report that was provided in Minneapolis they went through an extensive process 25 people were on this working group they had experts come in and advise them they took a a huge look at rent control in in Minneapolis and they actually surprised a lot of people this working group which included ten I'll let you finish your statement minutes thank you was called the working group before yes working grou report for uh Minneapolis I have a copy here which I I'm happy to provide to FKS thank you very much yeah they did surprise people and actually suggested that they not increase for various reasons like we talked about thank you anyone else I I'm probably the last one go down Harold D um as many people know I came to town my husband and I came to town 23 years ago we invested greatly in this town we put our life savings in this town and as a result we became landlords um we're good landlords but all of our R all of our units are under market now the the rent the taxes are going to go up 11% I'm going to be forced to sell all these properties and my fear is that the only people that are going to buy them are slum Lords because they're the only ones that going to be able to make it work because they they won't do any improvements for me I just reinvest in the properties so any any income I get from the properties I reinvest in the property so um and the other thing as a a business owner the thing that brought me to town was the the development the potential of Redevelopment and I've waited 23 years for it still hasn't happened and I think this would be the final nail in the go when we do this so that's my opinion thank you and I just want to voice my opposition thank you anyone else seeing no one okay we're going to move on before I open it up to council I'd like to make two statements here important information about your rental property town of filbur record records indicate that one or more of your rental units are required to be inspected for Ned hazards aparted dca's new law a ac528 A- lead based paint inspections in rental dwelling units this is a state law not a local law the new law states that rental units constructed prior to 1978 are required to have a dust wipe sample analysis to assess for lead hazards completed at the next tenant turnover or by July 2024 if there is no turnover failure to comply with the new regulation can lead to a fine up to $11,000 per week Property Owners must also complete their annual res residential rental registration by May 1st 2024 so this for the public knows what's going on from this state also I was elected by the people of Philipsburg to represent them and address any issues I identify while in office I as well as other elected officials have noticed a concerning Trend regarding the affordability of rental units in philis spurg I don't want to see residents of this town struggling and staying their home haven't recognized this issue I call the P the town attorney to provide their expertise to draft a rent stabilization ordinance that is fairly applied to all applicable rental units in town I feel this ordinance provides enough so-called relief vows so not to over burden the rental unit owners these include hardship application for owners Capital Improvement increases and the ability to obtain fair market value for vacant units this also includes a statutory exemption for all newly constr constructed or convert converted rental buildings for a period at almost 30 years this will ensure the developers will still build in filbur and will not be deterred by a fear of not realizing profit on their investment all these are why I feel this ordinances in the best interest of the town with that being said we'll open it up to councilman Clark uh thank you council president so tonight is clearly a very important meeting I've never seen a turnout for a work session like this in long long while so it's unfortunate matters like this that bring the public outut n nonetheless I'm glad to see public participation in the Democratic process nonetheless I've already stated and actually let me turn this on I've already stated my stance on rent control I don't believe it is what fburg needs at this point I think it'll do actually more harm for renters and homeowners alike if implemented right now and for full transparency I'm the only renter up here so I do not make these decisions light-heartedly it's something I've spent a lot of time thinking about but I do Bas all of this on my education experience that I have accumulated over the years not too many people have the opportunity to go and do their masters I was fortunate enough to graduate with my masters in business communication where I've taken classes in both macro and microeconomics financials and other business Associated uh courses where we discussed Market uh anomalies like this such as rent control I don't see it as the benefit for the residents of phsb or even the growth of our investment and business centers here in town that is necessary and tonight we literally heard from investors that would they would sell if need be we would lose Investments all those tenants would be displaced where would they go these are the questions we need to ask now we received the ordinance right here yesterday around what did I write um 300 p.m. so I didn't have a lot of time to review but I did get a chance to notice a lot Jo councilman speak please so I did get a chance to review as much as I could in its entirety so rather than focusing on on the ill um points of R control which I've spent since 2019 discussing I would like to bring up some points regarding the ordinance itself that has caught my eye and has concerned me and tonight we have heard something very interesting much of this language is unamerican first off reading through this you see a good Trend the town of Philipsburg here the town of Philipsburg this the town of Philipsburg this it's clearly addressing the town of Philipsburg specifically until you get to section 4636 powers and duty of the rent stabilization board section B where it specifically says sufficient copies of the current rules and regulations shall be file be on file with the city clerk and coordinator for the Perth Amboy rent control board this was not written for Philipsburg this is the Perth Amboy Control Ordinance all they did was take per Amboy out and put the word Philipsburg in and they forgot to do it for one line so we know that this is not for Philipsburg it's for Perth Amoy which then raises another question can you compare Philipsburg to Perth Amoy n that alone voids this entire thing out and just to share some statistics regarding perthamboy on why I believe it's not a case that can be compared to felsburg the population of Perth Amboy alone is 55,000 plus compared to our 15,000 plus the medium household income of perthamboy is around $52,000 whereas fburg is around 64,000 based off of 2022 census St Perth Amoy renter OCC occupation is 67% that's nowhere near Philipsburg which is around what 47 is% it's around the 50 Mark it's about almost half half regarding ing homeowners and renters you can't compare the two so why are we using an ordinance that was me for Perth Amboy the places upon the business owners renters and homeowners of bburg so that right there is just a a red major red flag for my uh uh concern right there problem number two number two when you start talking about the rent control board underneath the section let's see give me one second one second here section 463-5297 stifen whatever you want to call it they're being paid who's paying for this let me tell you you the taxpayer also there has to be a lawyer to oversee this because this will also this board will also have the power to do subpoenas and other legal actions who is paying for all that you've seen our 11% tax height because we're seeing spending going up this is just more spending and expansion of government we can't afford this we need to get the spending under control and this is just creating more government bureaucracy more jobs so I'm sorry that I'm also against because where is that money coming from also the hardship Clause now under this ordinance if passed landlords can't charge above 3% annual right so on top of an 11% tax height we're also capping Investments at 3% now there's a hardship for law is that if they need to raise tax they can go before this board and be considered in order to First be considered expenditures have to exceed 60% of their Total Rental income over 60% for them to even be considered to raise their ta uh rent in order to pay expenditures right I don't know about you but what business what investment runs out a 60% expenditure lost loss for you to have to then be considered to in uh increase your revenue and remember keyword here is income rental income not profit so you still have to pay taxes on your income all right this is bad business sense and you will push out more tenants more renters if you put it in because you were forcing these inv investors to sell their properties and you even heard it yourself they're either going to stay abandoned or some slum L is going to come in and not make any improvements so I'm sorry but we have to look at this as long term because this is going to affect filbur for the next 20 30 40 years down the road affordability is at the Forefront of my mind and unfortunately we live in New Jersey one of the most expensive states in the country highest property taxes we are experiencing um a shortage of housing but it's not just specific to t uh felsburg it's a nationwide problem and that's what's causing rents to go up a shortage of Housing and increase in demand increase in tax uh rents rent control only addresses the symptom but not the overall root problem which then causes even more problems we need to increase the uh supply of housing here nationally Statewide and locally to relieve the problem once and for all rent control sounds good on the surface but it will do irreparable damage longterm the slow locate a bunch of tenants uh lower the quality of life for these folks because landlords won't be able to make the repairs that they need to and create all this bureaucracy and spending because at the end of the day someone has to pay for all this it's not free it's physically it's physically irresponsible and I'm sorry to be so passionate about this but we're we're staring down the barrel of 11% tax increase a 3% investment cap Rising spending we're looking out for y'all yes y'all and I will not apologize let the councilman talk thank you council president everybody up here will get an opportunity and no councilman will tear into another one while I'm making that statement everyone understand that thank you council president I respect that but again it's a ensi issue but if we truly want to fix the issue we cannot make wrong decisions we need to go at this full force we need to be smart about this and we need to fully U utilize State resources for renters assistance there are programs out there one of which is the yanker program I've never heard anyone truly talk about it I'm constantly on social media connecting with renters letting them know that it's available yes Joe no exception sorry so let him talk thank you so that's all I'm going to say about that so I'm not voting for this it's going to do too much damage but I do believe that there are manners sorry there are ways we can alleviate the problem the symptoms of the major problem while also addressing the major economic problem that does not punish homeowners land um sorry homeowners businesses or even renters in the long term for so thank you coun Ked I I just want to make a statement real quick um so first just so everyone's clear CU there's a talking about voting and people seeing an ordinance there's no action being T taken tonight so there's no ordinance up for for treating no action being taken second uh regarding the Perth hand booy language so I did draft this uh this is not the Perth hand booy rent control you can look at pan boy code section and see it's not even close to what this is um when drafting this I know I'm not the smartest person no one is the smartest person you can always learn from other people I look at ordinances all over the state where they are saw what was good saw what would work best in uh Philipsburg and that's what I did I apologize there's a scrier error I left that in there but I felt that they had the best um makeup for the board and that's the language that I used but this is in no way the biran boy uh rent Control Ordinance just so you guys know thank you k councilman canedy okay uh first of all before I even get to this uh sample ordinance um had I not made a phone call to the business administrator uh last Friday this agenda would not have been put on the town website okay so we keep hearing about transparency that should have been on the town website Friday and uh a copy of this ordinance which we got as councilman Clark said we got it yesterday this should have been attached to it so all the public had a chance to look at it so as people said uh that came up here today this is a scary document and I hope we're not basing uh rent control on this at all um there are a couple of things I wanted to point out well as it was said before Perth amb boy is a city of 55,000 people we have 15,000 so okay and then what we looked at at the last work session was from L pacan again hardly comparable to felsburg so um couple of issues I have on this um there's one section here it says a complete rent roll for the immediate preceding year will be submitted to the rent leveling board by January 10th of each following year said rent rolls will include the rental status of all units and as all as to all occupied units the amount being charged for that unit the failure to timely submit such rent roll will be considered a violation of this chapter and punishable in accordance with its Provisions now what town employees employee or employees are are going to uh ensure compliance with this are we going to need yet more hires because I think we will adding again to our tax roles okay violations and penalties this is a very scary one any person firm or Corporation who shall violate any of the provisions of this chapter including but not limited to material misstatements contained in any of the notices required herein shall upon conviction be punished by a fine not to exceed $500 or by imprisonment in the county jail or in any place provided by the municipality for the Detention of prisoners or both such fine and imprisonment and each violation of any of the provisions of this after and each day there is a violation shall be deemed and taken to a separate and distinct offense and violations affecting more than one lease hold shall be considered separate violations imprisonment if you're considering investing in filbur and you read something like this are you going to come here or are you going to go elsewhere again I'm not in favor of rent control I never have been I feel for the people who are having a hard time of it now but I think this is a big no for Goldsburg and I think it would very very much set us back thank you councilman Council vice president PA I'm in support of rent control because as my mother stated it saved her from substantial increases when the property that she lives in was sold and there were new owners they did try to raise the rent substantially she would have had no place to go had it not been for rent control we've listed for years of of renters in Philipsburg coming to the podium and you know pleading for help because nine times out of 10 the landlord is an absentee landl lord they're they what we call slum Lords they're not taking care of the properties but they're raising the rents because one of the issues is Section 8 because the you know the majority of the rent is paid by section eight not the person that's living there that's part of the problem but I think you know what's happening here is only parts of this ordinance is being pulled out and you know the purpose of a work session is to discuss what's good what's bad and work on a compromise on what will work here um as far as any assistance we've heard it from the residents here here they've gone to get assistance and they get turned down I you know I'm not saying there isn't assistance available but I don't think there's the assistance that you're trying to uh put out there it it's not available to the people that are living here um if you read this there is there are clauses in there that if you do substantial improvements you can get more than the 2 and 1 half 3% increases it's not set in stone you just have to go through the procedures and again like I've stated before there are a lot of the landlords in this town that own the property but they have no clue what is going on in the properties and that is the problem you can go on several different websites and look up properties and it'll say whether it's an absentee landlord or not and part of of our problem in this town is we don't even know what properties are rentals because they're not registered so the inspections aren't being done the inspections department is under staffed has been under staffed we're aware of that and we're working on getting it properly staffed and yes it does increase salaries but in order for us to succeed and move forward this is what has to be done again I'm in favor of it and if if there's landlords that are raising the rents 100 $200 $300 as we've heard from people all you have to do is produce the documentation substantiating that increase we're not saying that it it isn't going to be uh attainable you just have to show that there's a reason for it not just because you know you want the extra money or whatever so I don't understand my fellow council members when they object to an 11% tax increase because for the last several years the taxes remained flat and our health insurance with the state went up 27% in 2022 um or 2023 2024 they went up 7% and next year we're looking at double digits and the taxes were held flat using onetime Revenue had those taxes been increased 1 2% over the last several years we would not be looking at this increase of 11% everybody knows that $600,000 Bond payment was not made that $600,000 Bond payment increased what interest is due on that payment so when you look at all those factors that you know you're at an 11% it's not because that's what we wanted to do it's what had to be done to remain fiscally uh responsible so you're against that of a homeowners or a property owners taxes being increased but you cannot support a renter to provide them some type of protection from a substantial amount of increase per month not per year because the average increase for the taxes is what we say $1 15200 per year and we're looking at renters coming here telling us that their rent is going up 1002 200 $300 per month that anchor program is not going to help a renter uh to pay that additional expense per month I'm done thank you I'm I'm going to be brief and I'll tell you why I'm supporting it number one I brought in four properties to the inspection department so look them up tell me which ones are renters three out of the four so now did they pay their $100 fee were they inspected no that's only a part second part some businesses on South Main Street Street last year saw 20% increase and again this year another 20% thirdly and when I talk I talk to the people in Bob I'm not going to read somebody else's ideas I'll look at them I'll read them but I want to talk to the people the biggest thing going on now and I checked with the postal authorities and I'll give you an example and I'll take my time let's say I'm not going to name streets so we don't offend anybody 10th Street they'll have 1 a 2 B and 3C the mailing goes to the supervisor oh I got 1 a 2 a I don't have no 3C or 2B I don't have no 3C the reason why they do that they get inspected by the number of deliveries and the number of stops so one stop has three mailboxes it's three stops or One Stop three deliveries this is happening not only in fburg it's happening all over now why are they putting these boxes up there is a criminal act is it is an established an address that you live in the town of filbur for 24 hours and that you can qualify for public housing I know that to be a fact because I asked a gentleman this is in addition to a lot of other things I can spend all night I showed fellow council members last year because councilwoman PA us wasn't here different articles they're probably outdated now so I've read articles that have people say bill with the PDA we read down you can't plan for it today in a town of billsburg that's got over 50% rentals everything you read about it I never see it compared to a town like ours we're well over 50% rentals we know for a fact that there's a lot of properties in peber that are rentals that are not registered we know that to be factual okay now you ask why why your services go up so if you've got a few of these places that are not registered you don't know who lives there and they have and I love kids they have a school age child okay they're not on the lease they're on nothing but guess where they're going to the school so if you have 50 of them or if you have another 20 that are homeless and what the law is I had TW 12 years on the school board we're going to educate them and we're going to feed them okay all this Factor comes into a poor town and it's Unique when the mayor presented his budget we had that all the municipalities in Warren County where was the cheapest to go look I played both sides I want the investor to make money and I want the tenant to be able to afford to it you hear about all these programs that are available there are try to get some help that's another thing and really we're not going to live in the perfect we're not going to live in a perfect town now I'll give you an example and I believe this holy we're going to have investors come in P we're going to be like Eon and the others where they see a block of houses that been over two 300 years old they're going to develop they're going to rebuild and then we're going to see some more tax money coming up it just takes time we can't put the Band-Aid like we've always done and we're going to I'm going to irritate people I know that I understand it but I didn't run for office to sit up here to not to tell the truth and that's what I Envision is going to happen I think the opposite of those people I think people are going to want to come in here we got one of the best Educational Systems in the state of New Jersey if not the area we got the best Early Child we got good things and we got things happening so I am going to support it for those various reasons and I firmly believe it we're on the right Road and thank you councelor for that thing mayor like to say anything yeah sure I took quite a few notes uh on what everybody had to say um I think it's important to look back at the history and how we've got here I think um I heard a lot about free Market Fair market we don't have a free market um we Section 8 sets our our Market um there's no free market uh we already have a government established Market in the town so um anything that's based on free market or what a market designates um I don't think is wholly accurate um I do think you know when people say I'll sell and somebody will come in and not make improvements they're going to make improvements we had uh 20 years of non- enforcement we're we're we've had our enforcement um inspections guy come in tell you that our our fees are 20 years out date they're 20 years out they because nobody cared for 20 years nobody made people um follow the rules we have these rules on on the books they just weren't followed um and you know I'll blame the previous administrations they didn't do their job um the the budget most of the hires are for that inspections department it is um woefully underst staff for the amount of rentals we have in town uh the first year I'll be honest is about correction um upgrading our ordinances our rates getting the proper Personnel trained Personnel um if there is a rent leveling board those PDM costs like when we go to the league of municipalities and take classes like um all Council people have like I have in the past it's to educate those people to make sure they're making informed decisions it's it's not a pay it's not so they can go to a a baseball field lunch in and have MPP pay for their lunch um it's it's those type of expenses so we have the proper people in place um what else do I have here um so I do believe the pro whether you sell or not or somebody comes in the properties will get fixed up and the ordinances will be enforced at some point in time when we do get the proper um fixes in place and it's going to take a bit because there is decades worth of uh irresponsibility and non- enforcement that has to be corrected um what else do we have provability I think one of the main issues that I've heard was every time somebody leaves and PE new people coming to town and rents going up I I think that's part of the problem too we're not providing stability uh one thing that makes a community and puts Pride back in the community is stability the ability to keep the same people in your area whether it's through home ownership or non-rental turnover when people have pride in their Community when they get to know their neighbors when they visit small businesses and not your big box Walmarts and things like that they take more Pride they're less likely to vandalize on the way home from school their parents are less likely to um you know um ignore the behavior of maybe their kids who are going to move in 6 months anyway because they couldn't pay their rent and they just move on to the next place um so I do think stability is one of the things that Philipsburg has lacked for a long long time um and maybe it's because of uh the affordable housing rules and laws and Section 8 but um you know these are we're coming up with a lot of complaints here saying that it's going to affect us for the worst and what people expected over the last two decades you you're asking for the same reaction from the past few decades that got you nowhere um you're complaining about where we are today based on the actions of the past I'd say two or three decades and we haven't gotten to where we wanted to be following those rules laws and practices so I if you want to keep following those practices we're just going to stay exactly where we're at um that that's my opinion on it I do have more opinions I'm looking forward to reading uh any any anybody who has anything that they want me to read feel free to email me the working group report I'll definitely take a look at that um um I'm looking for any type of insight um any type of ideas uh the more we can work with everyone the better but you're never going to make anyone happy if you try to make everyone happy all the time you're never going to get anything done so that's all I have thank you mayor okay we'll now open it up to public petitions just state your name you can talk for three minutes go Min real simple I mailed all of you uh a plan it has lower overheads it takes care of the meet people at the bottom it does not overcome the problem of the backlog and the the state subsidizing that problem remains actually it solves every problem that I've heard complain please read my proposal again if that thing had been attached to the first time I presented my plan I would have been against it it's the same as the one that was uh presented I think I first proposed this in 2019 that present thing that you're looking at is a piece of trash and should not be passed it's no good I gave you one that solved all those old problems read the dumb thing anybody wants to read a a a proposal that will meet Bill's standard too I believe I'll mail it's an email just come over give me your email email address and I will email it to you it's part of the public record by the way good job Bill Benz I appreciate your time the only question I'd ask the council that they could lay out for us a timeline of where we you expect to see in the next following meetings for opportunities where we could engage anyone else Cole Walters um I would like the council to consider that the Blended approach might be more effective um maybe a Time cap on these resolutions to stop the issue for renters and give them some breathing room while this Market evens out um I don't think any renter is against working with businesses we all want business in Philipsburg um because we know that's what's going to make the train flourish I just challenge the committee to really try to work across the aisle with both sides of the argument here and be creative thank you anyone else i' would like to send the proposal of the agenda but I didn't get to say it um the 11% we had no we didn't vote on it us taxpayers you said some of you it's not all but um back to what I said stated before you deserve blaming everybody um I didn't get to see the proposal you are all arguing over it we need to come to a solution and work together instead of name gaming doesn't matter we're all up here for the same thing businesses are still going to come here right now we don't have no rent control and how many businesses have left quite a few businesses you don't even know about have left come left come they're still going to come here no matter if we have rent control or not so we do need it here but I hope we can work on this resolution somehow but I'd like a copy of it so I could look at it thank you anyone else there was a uh oh David Mor set 5 Heights phb New Jersey um there was a comment here about uh thinking about history and the town did have an offer for $1.2 million in regards to in regards to um affordable housing so it off uh former councilman Jim Shelly said it is a new day in Philipsburg former councilman David deer Al said to Michael peruchi we are putting your hand we we are putting your future in our hands an article in 2006 in the morning call we're talking about a housing shortage an article in 2006 in the morning call talks about the property which is the Peron Howard Street property having 449 units 300 Town Homes Michael peruchi talks about in that article a th000 units on 166 Acres along the river but just on the Peron Howard Street property you were talking about 450 units and the plan was that was going to bring in a population that would help to red develop fisberg bring in money but the previous councils have decided to make that industrial a former councilman councilman Harry Wyant made a statement before the U properties on Main Street were brought in to the uh equation so he could still comment that this will ruin filisur by making the Howard Street property Industrial having those residential areas down there on the Bron Howard Street property would have been a huge Boon to the town of Goldsburg making it industrial goes against and hurts everything you're talking about in terms of affordability for the town of bisberg thank you for your time thank you anyone else any Fone I'm just fast can't help down hey 102 side Main Street my question is there going to be any exemptions to any buildings in Philipsburg because I heard that the El building will be exempt from it the El building the does anyone else know the proper name of it the one across from 75 75 Ste sping correct was there I if someone made that promise it didn't come from this Council okay I'm just asking yeah no problem anything else somebody else Robin Co um I'm sorry to critique this this thing here uh the section here about creation membership compensation voting and Rental state stabilization board um number one under compens compens Composition terms um it states that there'll be five members of this board appointed by the Town Council I think that's a terrible idea um I think that this should be looked at as a community uh board and it should involve businesses landlords residents um and not appoin these by Council it'll become political appointments and they will not be looked at uh in a um fashion where everybody's included so I just think that that should definitely be looked at and most of this thing really needs a good tweak and again I'm offering to help okay thank you all right thank you um I so this is a work session so if you guys want to talk to me and give me uh input I can make adjustments and when it gets introduced it can reflect whatever you guys want sure Council agreeable to that just send me your uh suggestions what you want to change and I'll send Council CL councilman Kenny okay I think we're all in agreement with that anything else before we close out the meeting you get your last shot can we all send what can can we yeah you can send me Joel I read everything you send me anything anybody wants to send me but you can't come to my house though oh I read I read that news boy oh nobody coming here you don't know if they're coming with a toy gun or a real gun in today's world okay hearing none motion to turn move second all in favor everybody drive home safely