e good evening and welcome to the uh March 14 2024 meeting of the Indian River County Planning and Zoning commission uh we'll call the meeting to order and start with the Pledge of Allegiance if you'll stand please United States of America to the rep for it stands one nation God indivisible withy and justice for all thank you uh and any additions or deletions from the agenda no none um we have uh two sets of minutes to approve tonight the first is from December 14 2023 Mr chair I move to approve second all in favor I uh very good and the second set of minutes is from January 11th 2024 motion to approve second all in favor I uh both sets of minutes are approved and so tonight we have one agenda item it is a public hearing uh and it is Island minor development llc's request to rezone approximately 20 acres from A1 agricultural District to RS3 single family home residential district um this is a um uh public hearing um any Declaration of farti Communications yes okay Mark um I received an email from Susan Neil that's how you say it and I explained to her that this was a judal so shouldn't it with her Comm then she wrot me back so with that we just ask um if that's the disclosure that the question is next question will be if all the Commissioners have an open mind and you can and you will do this openly um without any sort of bias or Prejudice so can you and will you be able to attend this hearing with an open mind and on any bias or Prejudice I always come all right thank you okay good that that's good um so we will at this point swear in all participants wish to speak on this matter if you are wish to speak please stand and get sworn in do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all righty then um staff presentation please good evening board my name is Cindy Thurman for the record I'm a senior planner with long range planning tonight we have zip Reon request for you from Island mayor development from A1 to RS3 look at the description and conditions this property is located on the western portion of the north Barrier Island contains 19.6 Acres this portion of the Barrier Island includes the captain Forester hammock preserve a state-owned land that the county is has a longterm lease to manage as a Conservation Area the RS6 single family Island clim River live subdivision is right there to the South the surrounding land use pattern consists of a mixture of conservation land to the north east north and east single family development to the South and the Indian River to the West the property is currently zoned A1 an agricultural District which permits one unit per five acres there are two small individually Zone parcel zoned rm6 located at the northwest corner of the subject property and we can see that more clearly here on the zoning map the subject parcel is there in the center in the green with the A1 on it the blue is there in the conservation and again that's the Forester uh hammock preserve and there's those two rm6 Parcels that I mentioned and the RS6 to the South the island Manor Club uh subdivision there here's a look at the future land use map which is L2 of the subject property the same as the subdivision to the South everything there is in that's in the blue is the conservation I'll look at the existing agricultural one uh zoning District this traditionally designed for agricultural Aqua recharge and conservation uses intended to provide for residential uses that are very low densities required nod requires nod locations primarily devoted to agricultural activities and generally serves as a holding District until the property is ready to be developed and then a closer Deep dive you can look at the differences here at the minim lot area lot width and then of course the biggest difference the density and then the sizes of the setbacks the RS3 proposed zoning is a single family District designated for low density single family residential development ensures adequate public facilities to meet the needs of residents and in this instance will create a step down zoning buffer between the existing RS6 subdivision to the South and the conservation one zone Conservation Area to the north the resoning request is consistent with the underlying L2 future landage designation this L2 future Lage designation is intended to provide areas for the development of residential uses with densities up to six units per acre the existing L2 futured landage designation is consistent with the requested RS3 zoning District the RS3 zoning district will limit the density to three units per acre and as you'll see there the L2 would allow up to six both RS3 will limit it to three and the existing A1 zoning District would limit the density to one unit per five but it is not consistent with the existing L2 future Lage designation as we're required to look at the review criteria of chapter 90212 three for every rezoning this criteria starts with is it in conflict with any applicable portion of the Land Development regulations in this area the proximity to conser a lands the hammock Preserve of jungle Trail pram protection area will require a coordination to minimize development impacts where as a single family low density development those seem to be minimal consistent be consistent with all the elements of the comens of plan the fature land use element objectives one objective five objective seven were all examined and they do meet their criteria consistent with the existing proposed land uses the proposed RS3 zoning is consistent with the existing L2 low density future landage designation and no future Lage Amendment change is proposed as part of this request this is a straight rezoning in compliance with the adopted County ther plan the main access for the site is from Island Club Manor to Highway A1A will this J oops sorry will this generate traffic which decrease levels of service as adopted we found this meet this criteria all roadway segments within the area of influence would operate an acceptable level of service under the proposed RS3 zoning subject to change conditions existant warrant did they warrant this amendment a low density residential subdivision with home sites that are almost an acre in size as proposed land use is more compatible than the existing underlying land use that would allow almost 60 UNS per acre at a higher density that is more likely to be incompatible with conservation areas and the existing surrounding properties NG would decrease levels of Service established for sanitary sewer potable water Solid Waste strange of recreation would they decrease the levels the applicant may be required to pay connection and customary fees more detail concurrency and during the development review process but at this time we find that this meets this criteria and when we do a deeper dive whenever we look at rezonings we are required to look at the highest and best use the most in I'm sorry not best most intense use of the property and for 19.6 acres under the existing A1 we would end up with one unit per 5 acres under the RS three up to three so the most intense under the existing zoning would be three under the proposed could potentially be up to 58 single family homes would this R change result in significant adverse impacts on the natural environment this meets secretary as additional federal state and County coordination and nor the permitting may be required based on the results of Environmental assessment environment assessment would need to be done prior to uh going forward with any development on the property this property is in the flood zone AE additional flood PR flood protection regulations would be also reviewed as far as the subdivision development review process would this change result in an orderly and logical development pattern specifically identifying any negative impacts on such pattern this meets the criteria consistent with the concert plan and surrounding land uses and will provide for a logical and orderly development pattern actually providing a step down buffer between the subdivision to the South and the conservation to the North in conflict with the public interest and is in harmony with the purpose and interest of the Land Development regulations we do find that this meets the criteria and is in harmony with the purpose and intent of the L development regulations and is there any other whoops sorry any other matter that may be deemed appropriate in revieww and consideration of proposed amendments such as police protection fire protection and Emergency Medical Services we believe it meets this criteria as all mandated facilities have adequate capacity to accommodate the most intense use under proposed zoning District so in conclusion the requested RS3 zoning district is compatible surrounding area consistent with the goals objectives and policies that the counties adopted adopted concert plan is consistent with the County's Land Development regulations deemed suitable for RS3 zoning to further meet the needs of the residents with a diverse and varied housing Supply and supported by staff and recommendations is that the staff recommends that PNC recommend that the board of County Commissioners approve this request to Res on the subject property from A1 to RS3 and if you have any questions I'd be happy to ask answer them thank you so at this time we'll uh address commissioner questions any questions on my right I have okay Beth um could you put up the one of the location maps attachment one right where the arrow is appears to be the only uh touching point for Jungle Trail and I know that my question may be much more appropriate during the review process but um are there any special uh considerations when you are adjacent to Jungle trail that need to be addressed there are there's a whole set of plans and buffers for the actual jungle Trail plan the management plan okay that they would have to abide by when they go through the actual site development process okay all right thank you that's it you good anyone else any questions on the left yes all right Mark I'm always confused about the definition of single family thought I knew what it was but just recently seems what do you call it Association Home Association when you build you know one or more additional no requ they can be rented then I I don't see that it's single family respond to that sure so I'm assuming that you're mentioning the accessory dwelling unit that we allow in all of our single family residential so yes it is accessory to the main use uh which would is still considered by State Statute as single family resident or single family homes uh we do allow that in any single family District um the if this proposed subdivision does have a homeowners association they are able to write that into their covenants and restrictions if they'd not like to have accessory dwelling units but that's completely up to that Homer Association and how does that affect like a traffic stuff if everybody had one you know then you've got twice as much traffic than you do it would be minimal at best minim there's not a lot of an accessory dwelling unit is a very small unit so the max you'd have is one person in that unit sometimes those people don't even have cars because it could be an elderly person that's actually why the intent of the actual ordinance was for uh kids that came home for college or senior citizens for aging parents that were to move in that weren't able to take care of themselves or you know be able to do things without going into an assisted living facility also I would think in a community like this the HOA is not going to let those accessory dwellings be a rentable thing especially in this expens of of real estate they're just not going to do it I I I almost guarantee iiz it would be a bad it would be bad business for them I realized that after I started asking any question but I hadn't heard that it was limited to a single person just by alone size is small but it's not limited to a single person however just the space alone lends itself to not allowing for more than one or two people I I mean if it's a couple you have to think that an accessory dwelling unit is usually going to be a one-bedroom kind of studio if that at best I believe it didn't it just be changed up to 12200 square fet and I've seen four bedroom homes at 1200 squ it depends it depends on the main house and the square footage on the main house can I add something so these lots are going to be 12,000 Square ft basically correct okay so we're going to still have the 30% rule that's going to apply MH so the total dwelling including the garage patios entry and the actual living area can only be a maximum of 3600 foot in total so I'm sure that most of the people are going to build out here are going to use the majority of that for their main domicile you may have some small pool house which would maybe service for a guest that's coming to stay and they would stay in it or like he said if you have an older family member and they really need to be close to you that's probably what the intended use is in my opinion in addition to that um a couple more questions if you don't mind this is kind of for everybody listening a decent portion of this property is going to get eaten up in storm water also the ldr state that there's going to have to be a Parks section in this subdivision is that not correct a certain area for recreation so there's going to be even more of the subdivision eaten up by that so the amount of houses that you may think are going to go in here more than likely are not and that's before the environmental study all that stuff has to happen I just want to kind of add that so that everybody listening understands that that's all I appreciate you answering my questions thank you sir sure I agree I just have um one one or two qu questions and it has to do with the access off of A1A is that public or is that deed access or is that an agreement between the Indian River Club or whatever that adjacent property is that you know that I'm not aware Ryan do you happen to know sure for the record uh Ryan Sweeny assistant Planning Development Services director um it is a private right away okay um I'm not 100 well of course if it moves if passes resoning and moves to development we'll certainly need to formalize that I'm hoping that the property owner was smart enough to secure access through um Island Club Manor they they will not have primary access off off chville Trail it will be through Island Club Manor well they have any access off of Jungle Trail uh probably recreational passive maybe but not vehicular and there is a gate house I imagine that would be their only access and E correct um but yeah we would we would certainly require proof of the ability to use Island Club man before we would Grant subdivision approval okay because access to the property off of A1A would seem to be necessary in order to even Zone this RS3 um just because the limitations of jungle Trail I would but somebody else is going to have to answer that for me um okay I mean the applicant is here but again I don't I don't know that we I don't know that we can condition or approve or deny or resoning based on then maybe I'll direct that to the attorney so for for zoning not necessarily that but I can tell you that when it comes to development you cannot develop unless you have access so they can get rezoned all day long but if they don't have access they can't develop it's kind of where we're at thank you that was the main question I had was access everyone good and is this access question a question the developer can answer now should we get can we get that answer now sure we can definitely ask yeah yeah um just sorry as point of order we the usually the applicant is the first one that gets to speak during the public hearing portion so if we're done with questions of Staff we'll open it and we'll let the developer speak first all right so we will open the public hearing um I'd ask that everyone who wishes to speak uh have been sworn in and U come to either one of the microphones clearly state your name and your address and I'd also ask that if a point you are want to make has already been made uh we don't need to hear that five or six times so at this point I'll open the public hearing and ask to hear from the applicant first one other point of ordering typically the developer does request to be able to sort of answer or follow up on any questions at the end as well for rep so thank you uh good evening board and chair uh my name is Ryan mle with mbv engineering we repres pres the applicant uh in this resoning process um ultimately appreciate staff's efforts uh throughout this process of resoning it's been a very clean and straightforward process and I hope that you guys will as well support this process going forward um I guess to address the the kind of question in the room uh the developer and them are finalizing the agreement associated with Island Club maners access specifically elements everything as far as working through uh you know a continued maintenance operation and things like that to support island clander in the future and specific access will be I mean from the preliminary plans of course is is directed off A1A if you've ever tried to be in my position and permit something accessing to Jungle Trail you very clear to understand that that is not within the cards of how this is going to go um but very clear the jungle Trail management plan Chris pointed out very clearly has substantial restrictions when it comes to not even work within the boundaries of jungle Trail but also development to access so realistically as Mr Sweeney mentioned as well maybe some passive access we're talking about a pedestrian gate gated component that takes you to the river would be the first point of order um but I'm open myself to any additional questions you guys have now or otherwise I'll have a seat and can answer everything at the end if need be as well so the access through A1A is currently under negotiation correct yeah the Island Club man so that is not a done deal according to the developer it is I haven't se it's it's not a legal document I can present in front of you though I will tell you that though I clarified that um so it they've been working through it I think there's been a positive recourse despite what may or may not here tonight um it's been a positive interaction uh and giving toward they need to be but very clearly that obviously is going to be the key of course to to takeing for not just the rezoning but the development right the challenges that come forth with development are going to be substantial so we understand that entirely um so this is just kind of one of the stepping stones that gets us there of course I just had one question who owns that access uh Island Club Manor I believe it's a private access private access so it's controlled by an HOA or the developer still controlled by the HOA because Island Club Manor was platted 20 some years ago turn the HOA yeah yeah mult phases they went through um so correct still plaed as a private access depicted through the County's GIS accordingly yeah perfect thank you and if that negotiation fails that will end the development well I would think if the negotiation failed it would really be now you've created a now we have a lot that is forced to re you know look at the jungle Trail access so almost as an owner in the adjacent properties adjacent boundaries I've SE not going to say that wouldn't be challenging but you'd have a a 20 acres of developable land that's forced to access of jungle Trail now while it's not traditionally allowed obviously traditionally traditionally feasible in some scenario like that we'd obviously entertain everything we could to we the first and foremost thought process would be to work through some level of negotiation to get to where it needs to be if it actually if it would actually stop the development I mean I don't know in the land I can't imagine they would just step off and decide not to develop it I'd say like that but at this point your understanding is that there has been a deal struck that hasn't for my understanding correct and that's what I'm best I can say tonight yeah and so it's going to be a separate subdivision not uh just melted in with Island Club no we have nothing to the property has nothing to do with Island Club it just so happens to they they had built the they had built the ploted access and that and when it was broken out as it was and capit Forest were created created this landlock lot that was otherwise kind of pinned back um and then ultimately accessing this would make the most comprehensive sense for the county but it is to say that yes you know I'm been any discussions about these little spotty rm6 Parcels no they were probably historically there when they did the updated land map because I guarantee we couldn't permit an rm6 rezoning a long jungle Trail um I would love to obviously as a developer but that's not the case and um but no I can't speak on those rm6 zoning wouldn't be a resoning it's existing r no no I mean that if I chose to turn A1 land I would never be able to turn to rm6 yeah so I think it's just when historically when they update the zoning maps at whatever time and effort they did F six was grand father and a few of not going give you that designation and you'll see that across the board in the county I'm sure you guys know very well but they pop up random things you can't quite explain how they got there I I didn't see any mention of an archaeological survey in the staff report is there going to be a required archaeological survey if brought forth there's a requirement in the pre-application yeah I think I think they noted it and as far as when it go goes through flary plat and site development yeah every very s and you can imagine you've heard it briefly Cindy touched on it very well but uh environmental challenges flood plane challenges in our County I think everyone's starting to understand that land that's left in Prime area is challenging development right so it's not without its burdens um so really had preliminary studies went through a preliminary process they've did the performer to get to where they are today but when we go back through it everything comes back through as well yeah then speaking on that just pardon Mike pardon me I'm still recovering a little bit um so will will the property be a cut and fill I mean or is are you going to be able to bring dirt in to bring that out of the flood plane or what are the plans for for bringing that up to habitable uh land yeah so the so the preliminary intention obviously it's preliminary now because we're just in the resoning process but reasonably the intention would to bring Phil in obviously there' be some cut that's valuable historically or historically grow land is not the best fill material so we' be aware of that and any kind of fill requirements associated with public works and any kind of trucking elements but realistically the intent would be to balance um and obviously if the entire Community was brought to the elevation where it needs to be they'd probably go through corrective action through the low War process at that point but realistically from a pure development standpoint it'll be a it'll be it'll be a cut fill analysis and takes us through that and it'll probably be a series of wet detention ponds Etc correct and and do you have an approximate number of lots you may be able to uh to put on here at this time or is that still too early to answer that well it's not too early I think the market I think Mr Grano spoke on it very well it's I mean the market dictates it's not an R it's not an R six zoned lot right so we're looking at 12,000 square feet at a minimum um so realistically I think it's in the in the 20 to 24 range something like that from an actual standpoint if you want to think of it at that end um not to be limited to that but that's realistically where it's going to be because of all the requirements just yeah just between the the retention and retention conservation environmental considerations how much do you want to pay to mitigate ET buffers buffers yes very clearly yes okay we good on the left the right okay so we'll um open the or the public hearing is open please come forward in an orderly fashion state your name um address and comment if I can make it I've been there good evening uh Peter dubet 8520 CEST drive so we live directly across the river from uh the proposed development I want to thank all the all all you for your service I appreciate it I appreci you appreciate you having this an open mic so we can talk freely um right now in on the island there's very limited supply of undeveloped land this is one of the few remaining Parcels that is undeveloped it's dark at night I sit I sit outside at night and I listen to the owls I listen to the frogs over there I hate to lose that uh the owner who bought this bought it knowing that it was agricultural why does it have to change why do we need another development especially when it's so close U to conservation land and to the Indian River Lagoon which is environmentally sensitive I just don't understand why the county needs to change it it's it's perfect the way it is uh if if you did not make the change there'd be no impact in to Jungle Trail there'd be no access problems um and um and currently there's a u there's a $50 million Grant that's been given to the county for additional conserv cons a land I have uh submitted those two Parcels at rm6 and the uh A1 uh to be to be um accepted as conservation land I think that's the way it should go um they're not going to make any more undeveloped land why why give it up I mean everyone you know you look at the developments everyone looks at these developments and they say why are they doing this it's so many people and then we have environmentally sensitive land where it's already overdeveloped and it's near Captain Forester why do we need to go any further um if it does go further one of my concerns is I mentioned that I sit out there at night um right now I'm bothered by the lights at the marinas like at Sea Oaks and at uh what that other one R barisa what is it anyone Mara you know they're they uh it's light pollution it's directly in our eyes I would hope that the developer would be sensitive to uh make you know putting in lights that are environmentally pleasing that's it thank you Mr dubet du um just a just a question for St what was what was CEST zoned originally before it was developed any idea I I don't know was before me so I'll have to ask Ryan sorry Mr CH C Crest it's yeah across directly across the river RS RS3 right so it's it's combination of RS3 and rs1 um that's the end of the uh okay yeah so um so our by and large our zoning goes back to the 70s but when it when things really kind of hit was when the growth management act took place in the late 80s and then 1990 we adopted our ldr so the current RS3 rs1 zoning was probably an old what was R1 or r1a um but they're they're comparable so it's been residential and and that those plats over on the on the uh Island the intervening island is are year 60s and 70s and 50s so so it's been that way for quite some time so never agriculture um I mean way way back probably but that was before zoning I mean all the island was by and large was agricultural okay thank you just one other point south of seest that's all owned by land trust now so that's Conservation Area also so conservation are is all over the place it's it's Conservation Area by virtue of being owned by the land TR it is zoned rs1 so just to be clear yeah so if if I may just really quick obviously we want to continue with the public hearing but just as a note I mean to put it out there this is the land owner has a right to come in and ask for this resoning unless we find that they don't meet all of the criteria we cannot deny the rezoning so they as the owner have the right if someone's wanting to submit it to elap they can but elap I can tell you because I sit on elap too is looking for owners who are willing to sell for conservation so that's a that's a whole another thing as well so um just wanted to remind the board that we have you know unless there's a specific reason for a denial if they're meeting all the criteria we really we they have a right to request the resoning the criteria you were referring to with the criteria we went through those age that's correct correct y can can I add something yeah yeah go ahead so the Mandate of this board here is to follow the Land Development regul ations our personal feelings and opinions on things are absolutely irrelevant we're here to look at the letter of the law and approve or disapprove items by that law and again our feelings and what we think should be is not how we are supposed to vote or conduct ourselves is that correct Madam attorney that is correct thank you thank you next Edward Millard 8855 West Orchid Island Circle in verl beach in Sea Oaks just north of the land that we're talking about totally disagree with the last few comments I think that what I'd like to talk to you about is quality of life and difference okay today 8:30 this morning I was on the jungle trail walking along saw two dolphins stopped and watched okay a gal from the the uh adjacent you know um development came by and I said hey two dolphins he should oh we we've lived here for 15 years we used to see them all the time we don't see them that much anymore we don't see the herand we don't see the crabs we don't see the turtles as much anymore you know several decades ago your County Commissioners made a pretty bold move didn't they about the restriction of the height of you know how much you could build in the entire County not just on the island okay why did they do that anybody want to answer that question certainly they did it because they didn't want it to end up being like South Florida where you had Towers everywhere and when you drove over the coal Bridges I understand completely they wanted it to be different they wanted to be different in terms of ambiance they wanted to be different in terms of quality of life they wanted to be different in terms of Po population density okay today at 4:00 in the afternoon you can't cross the 510 Causeway in less than 20 minutes from from A1A okay you know that right they just announc in the state they're going to worry about you know the whole intersection of 510 and Route One because of the de developments that happened it's a two-lane Causeway it's not even a four-lane Causeway I mean what are you guys doing here if you talk he talks talk talk go ahead we are not here as a panel to make law we're only here to follow law the County Commission makes law and and changes ldrs we do not here as a body have that type of power okay well you know when you um you know come off this committee or whatever whenever you do in the next you know two or three or four or five years you can tell your kids and your grandkids that yep we did what we had to do and we just sacrifice the quality of life and being different than the counties above and the counties below you can tell them that yourself thank you sir Gabriel Walker I'm a homeowner facing the uh plot of land in Island Club i' just like to give support to the previous speakers and also say that I think uh resoning from agricultural to uh whatever R you're going to put there is a regressive step this site is an obvious acquisition for the uh land that's already in public uh ownership there and you've heard that there's money available probably aiming at this land and you should not do anything that gets in the way of creating this space for the public use which it's obviously obviously aimed for thank you thank you hi my name is Daryl root I live on Island Club 831 Oceanside kind of the entrance to the new development there I'm sorry I didn't get your last name r oot T root kind of like root beer and uh to me I know this gentleman said this has nothing to do with Island Club the new place it kind of has everything to do if they're going to be bringing in trucks for how long do they build everything in a year who knows how long that is going to take place uh dust traffic it's going to interrupt the Tranquility of my home these people's homes so I'm to me I'm I don't understand that I guess everybody's wondering why they're doing this I think it's greed basically it's all focused in making a lot of money there's no other reason I mean it's 20 Prime Acres next to the you say it's close to the pr Preserve it's really part of The Preserve I walk down there all the time I I I don't think it's any different when I look at it other than there's no trees so you know already I I'm a new homeowner I'm already thinking about I'm going to move I don't know what you know I know that building doesn't take place overnight and they'll go in there and uh form this land the way they want to and then they'll build houses peac meal so it's going to go on for a long long time so let the commission think about that Mr Root so we we've heard from Neighbors all around this development was there ever any discussion within your homeowners association about buying this parcel and keeping it the way you want it because somebody did buy it right I'm uh last I heard when we moved in and I've we've been there just under a year was uh it was possibly going to be developed I think helmet was going to be the builders they were going to build one home per acre now it's up to 58 homes for the acreage there which what probably means that was maximum yeah that didn't sound so bad okay 15 homes now it's going to be 58 homes does that mean about 100 no it's not going to be can't be 58 homes there's not enough land go ahead so I'm I apologize by the time you have all of the different requirements by the county to build in there uh like the developer said you're probably only looking between 20 and 24 homes I believe is is what he said and so it's not the 58 that is that is what could possibly go in there but statutorily and codewise uh I don't the the property isn't large enough for that many homes doesn't look like it it's and it's not because of of the requirements of the county and they do a very very good job of of making sure that all those requirements of open space and and drainage that that everything stays on on the property and doesn't leech into the um environment and into that River they do a very very good job I I have to commend staff because I've worked with them on this and they do a very good job of making sure all of that Wastewater and things stay on property at that point in time as it's being developed so that is something to consider there's going to be like 50 new vehicles driving up and down that road you know if you figure two per family and then uh I have that's the case with everything that's been built over the years in the community every time something was built you had additional traffic you had additional trucks you had things under construction so when your home was built in all honesty that same type of traffic and thing happened and so you guys have been there now for a while so you haven't seen that and and so it it sort of it's sort of hard to say well it was okay for me but it's not for them and and that's sort of uh what I'm hearing uh from from the public at this point in time is why they don't like it is because of some of the traffic and the noise and the things that will be going on temporarily now you are right it's not going to happen overnight it's going to be for a period of time but I I appreciate that outlook on it but that's kind of a canned Outlook that everybody says hey you came here but now like everyone knows there's like no land left there's a beautiful spot there there's a preserve already there why why encroach on that why not just leave it alone I I you know I I heard what you said but but I have no I have no control over property rights and if somebody purchases something and wants to develop that that is personal private property rights and as a commission we're obligated to hear and and and Grant those rights as long as they are within the code and the law and that's our job hey I'm sure I'm a capitalist too but you have to step back every now and then and go hey let's just leave some of this I appreciate I appreciate that Insight I do okay sir uh can I ask you a question Mr Mr yes we got a question for you sure is uh Island C club uh fully built out yes okay because I I know River Club is still building and expanding River Club has I think about three lots left or something it's pretty much for all intents and purposes built out Island Club is built out and uh unless they want to fill in the ponds and build you know maybe so okay thank you good evening Rick huitt and I live at 8776 West Orchid Island Circle which is in the sea Oaks development uh pretty close to the river uh my question is on this is I can see um the propert whoever bought the property obviously wants to have it res zoned so if I just want to I guess it's just point of informations that I that I have for you folks is are you saying that you're looking at approximately uh maximum 3600 ft foot footprint per unit and the maximum would would be anywhere from 20 to 24 units is that what I'm hearing so what what the applicant has the option to do is he has an option to go as small as a 12,000 foot lock and in doing so they can only put structure on 30% of that which equals 3600 total square foot the applicant also has the option of making the Lots bigger than 12,000 square foot and put putting larger Estates but then there won't be as many home sites so they have some flexibility in their plan um but a lot of it in at least in my opinion is going to be eaten up with water retention roads you're going to have to put a park on that particular site according to the ldrs and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of restrictions and and buffers because of the Estuary to the north so a lot of that property is is going to be shrunk and they're not going to be able to put 50 homes in there 40 homes 30 homes I I don't think that they're going to get you know beyond 30 if they make the lot somewhat bigger or somewhat you know somewhat small they're going to they're going to only have a minor amount of homes in there you're not going to have some 60 home subdivision going in with town houses and all that crazy thank you thanks for clearing that up so I guess my question at this point is then should you do the zoning change what is the next step in terms of do you have oversight as far as the amount of units that would go in there yeah the next step is R the next all yeah so couple things so this is strictly the resoning this is and that's what you got to base your decision on and ultimately the board will ultimately approve or deny it but there is a whole another process that is uh the subdivision process preliminary plat ldp final plat I do want to clarify that there that staff has the ability to approve a preliminary plat up to 24 units which happens to be a magic number in this case because um so staff could approve the preliminary plat for this subdivision up to 24 units without having to come it back to you all if it's 25 or more we would come back to pnz um we don't have the ability to say we think 10's appropriate so we're only allow 10 if they meet the parameters they then but they are going to be um self-limited by all of the things they've that we've mentioned um just as a rule of thumb in a conventional RS3 um on average if they're doing the minimum lot size and lot width they typically yield about two units per acre so even though your zoning is RS3 you're by the time you do storm water uh roads Landscaping buffering all the other things this is a cut and fill so you know it's probably going to be even more so that that two would be the highest but that's 12,000 ft Lots you know at the bare minimum they're probably going to want to go a little bit bigger if I could not to sort of change the subject but so Island Club is Island Club is actually two different subdivisions the the eastern half um was actually a PD and it has 55 foot wide Lots so it's considerably uh more dense and intense the West half was a conventional subdivision but it's RS6 so it's 70t wide lights only um 7,000 sare foot Lots is the minimum um they still have a sizable cut or Pond if you PR those that cut and fill um so they still only yielded probably uh the PD probably got close to four four and a half the r the the conventional subdivisions of three and a half four um but it's still way higher than what we're looking at with the RS3 conventional just for matter of perspective and and Mr hu I I want to take a step back even further than um Ryan just did uh what we do tonight is make a recommendation that will go up to board accounting Commissioners they will make the final decision they will schedule meeting and you can do this all over again for them and that's where the buck stops right okay and thanks for outlining the process foring I guess my only other question I'm not sure you can answer this tonight where would the access to I'm assuming they're going to be using the Indian River Club front entrance on A1A to exit from those you can't tell that from now yeah that that is that's what the applicant I think just told us that that's their intent their in negotiations with obtaining that access agreement okay um so as far as right now that's their intent and could you put the arrow on where that access would be then on on am I looking like on the West End about halfway through there it hasn't been agreed upon yet put cursor on that where would be though B based on design going to be right there so it probably most likely will either line up with the existing Island Club driveway right yep right there or it may be further um we have driveway spacing requirements so you have to be a certain distance away from existing so it may be at the very uh East End and come up and uh probably would tie in and cold a sack at the end so uh but again that's all design base that is no nowhere near been fleshed out what I go ahead yeah um I had a question to Ryan I asked earlier about um the the restrictions on Jung jungle trail and I understand there's a plan uh or a management plan there um for the uh conservation areas that surround the project is there any uh controlling mechanism similar to Jungle Trail yes yeah so there is additional buffering and compatibility requirements okay so the jungle Trail management plan itself has requirements for any work not only within the jungle Trail rideway but also there's an additional buffer on on the outside of the rway so any work in the jungle Trail buffer is subject to Jungle tra management plan but the buffering between single family and conservation zoning is a separate matter that will have to be addressed uh through again the subdivision I I I think folks do get a little frustrated when we say we we'll we'll talk we'll deal with that later but yeah as you all know it's a very throw process we we need to try to limit our decision- making tonight to just what is in front of us and and so just one one more question um is there an opportunity for Access along the boundary of those conservation areas into the conser I don't that would be no it would be buffered and segmented off okay one one last thing as a matter of process um I'm I'm assuming most folks that are here tonight probably received the notice by mail or received it secondhand I will we can we can jot down names and email addresses um when this goes to bccc in about a month's time we're going to go through the whole process again we'll post an ad in the paper we'll advertise uh we'll post a sign on the property we'll also do the notice by mail so everybody should get the date and time but moving forward uh for when the subdivision comes in um we can also create an email list because that same level of notice will not be required but we can keep you all up to speed on that as well if you guys don't mind just either probably once we wrap up the meeting I'll hang back and get names and email addresses for folks and we can create an email list so just so we're clear on that one last thing the lighting that the gentleman mentioned um that also will be reviewed during the subdivision if you want to stay in the loop for this make sure that Ryan gets your email address before you leave tonight perfect and that'll in include the border of County Commissioners meeting in about a month and it will include development so make sure that you're on that list okay and finally and and I'm not sure if you can answer this because I bike jungle Trail every day from winter beach and make a loop you know through sea Oaks and uh it seems to me when you approve the Strand development there was a buffer that was created there because I go by that and I'm looking at Island Club and I'm thinking well the exist what I'm seeing there is those homes are actually closer to Junger Trail than the Strand so I guess you I'm not sure if you can tell us this now at this point but will they be required to have some sort of like buffer where you see it just south of that rm6 zone are they going to need some sort of like buffer there because that's not going to be an access so are they going to be required is and is that something that you actually don't know right now so really quick they I so the one you mentioned below it the Island Club that was developed like 20 something a long time ago before these new requirements came into place so they will have the extra buffering on whatever is coming in now so those rules weren't in place back then the new rules will require the buffering and Etc as they are now and I'm sure Ryan maybe know a little bit more about the strands in the town of Indian River Shores and there so there that was not reviewed or approved by this development however as I understand it all development is subject to the Jungle tril management plan so um so anyways just to clarify the Strand was reviewed and approved by the town of in River Shores um but yeah there they'll have to meet it's not um I guess buffering it's actually it's not overly buffered it's more of a physical separation as opposed to like what we think of as a landscape buffer but they have to there's a 30 foot physical separation beyond the RightWay for for Jungle Trail they may ultimately want to do some level of buffering themselves because there's a lot of dust and dirt and debris but that's something that we'll address later well I thank you for your information and Mr hu if if as this progresses and you get notifications of of what's going on if you have thoughts that you want to get onto the table you can meet with Ryan you can meet with him at any time if you've got concerns right Ryan thank you I appreciate it y let me clarify once again um when they're doing a conventional subdivision we are bound by certain rules and limitations um you know despite what even I might say sometimes developers sometimes you know are difficult but oftentimes they want to be good neighbors so if it's a reasonable request they usually try to accommodate it so we can just clarification the puffer clarification sure so so I just want to try to keep us on on task we're here simply for the rezoning at this point in time it is if anyone else has that has not had a turn to speak would like to speak um that would be great at this point in time if not then we need to one quick question of you Susan yes you made it very clear that uh the land owner has a right to you please come to the mic I'm so sorry I'm sorry uh you made it very clear the landowner has a right to request a zoning change yes sir and and you have to either uh agree with it or not what reasons are valid for not agreeing with it if they don't meet any of the requirements that we have set forward and at this point in time they they do meet those um so at this point in time there has been we have to basically go off the evidence that's been presented here at this hearing so what what's the point of having zoning if they can come in and just request it and you can't you can't uh refuse it so the point of having the zoning I can tell you it's there to kind of demonstrate what's going to happen what's not going to happen but we do you do and you are offered the ability to be heard if there is a reason and a legal basis to deny it and we deny it with conditions we can but at this point I haven't heard we haven't heard any evidence for a basis for a denial so I will definitely and this board unfortunately they they don't have as they've said before they're not they don't have the ability to change the Land Development regulations or any of those rules those rules get get changed by the board of County Commissioners um so and those are done through Land Development regulation amendments they call them the ldrs so anybody that is concerned about anything that's happening in your community you can always talk to a commissioner or talk you know to your commissioner to see what you know and voice your concerns um I will note though that this particular item it when it does come back up in front of the board it will be a quasi judicial item so we try to refrain from having other people reach out to the Commissioners beforehand because it's quasi judicial um it can cause an issue of whe whether they're deemed to be um impartial there can create a conflict of interest so we usually try to ask Commissioners not to if they get anything just kind of put it to the side um and they have to disclose if they've received anything beforehand because they're only allowed to rely on the testimony and evidence that's given during the hearing because the applicant has a right to appeal and the only things that are appealable are the things that are here on the record yep so but I com your concerns are not please don't take it that they're fa on DEA ears because they have not and as um Todd has pointed out you know some of us we have our own personal opinions but and feelings but our personal opinions and feelings don't come into place when we're at prayer we just have to enforce the rules that were given and and that's just kind of the way it is so thank you thank you of course Mr chair if I could say one thing to the public one item again I live in Island Club is the uh committee empowered to reone without a definite access agreement to that site there is one at the moment so to do even without access but sir it's a moot point because as they stated earlier without access they can't develop I understand but just chicken and eggs so you're entitled to do it Mr chair I just wanted to make the public aware that even with this land being rezoned if the rezoning was approved it could still be submitted for the elap and it could still be purchased for conservation just because it's rezone doesn't mean that it cannot be purchased for environmental sensitive land so just want to make the public aware and so The Bard aware yeah I believe I believe this partial has actually already been recommended to El is that correct or okay the only other final thing I'll say is is to back up sort of globally with land use and Zoning um the underlying land use for this property is L2 which allows a host of different zoning districts rs2 RS3 RS6 rt6 rm3 four and six so if they were asking and Ryan the other Ryan the applicant mentioned this if he was asking for rm6 he'd be probably booed out of here because we're not going to put multif family highest density use up against con so there's a method to the Badness we we do try to strike a balance we're we're if you look from south to North we're going from RS6 to RS3 to con one the rm6 pieces that you mentioned are those are grandfathered sort of anomalies um but I you know if if they were requesting rm6 we they probably would fail to meet some of those criteria just to be clear one thing I wanted to mention Mr chairman was looking at this map that we've been doing for 45 minutes uh the uh agricultural or the A1 parcel sticks out like a sort of thumb so it's going it's going to be resed at some point and and and unless it goes to conservation or the environmental land program U this is probably the most uh conservative residential uh resoning uh that could be done hey has everyone spoken who wants to speak one more okay sure that's fine okay my name is Tom row I live on uh Island Club square right across from the track excuse me sit there quiet this time um I've been in there for 20 years and um before we had the HOA the easement agreement was reached to provide access to the road the HOA did not have involvement with that I think it's important to point out that there are conditions in the easement agreement as to what type of housing can be built on that tract for instance it can't be multif family housing etc etc just so I can clarify that uh we had had discussions over the years about purchasing the lot nobody had the appetite to put up that kind of money um other than that somebody did pardon me somebody did because it's been purchased I don't know yes somebody did uh it was always very I I mean we always would have preferred to have it open but we recognize reality that's where we are that's the law and uh we're we will do the best we can to develop this in conjunction with the developer so to everyone's Mutual satisfaction because there's not a lot a lot else we can do about it thank you and you've got a voice all through this process yes uh I will I will thank the planning people they've kept me involved in this for years I've seen previous plans by gho I can't remember the other one which were rejected by the zoning commission no by the your commission that was your guys and uh we had grave concerns over those over the density of the housing in there and the fact even in the one meeting uh I won't mention who it was they started appealing to us to allow different zoning so they could put multi family housing in there and we said no we're not going to agree to that so uh that's kind of where we are today and we recognize that reality thank you thank you for the information it's very interesting that the uh access agreement was has been in place that long I I'm still not seeing the access to A1A I guess it's that brown little chunk there it's it's kind of a tricky wording it's they have the right to access the Ana they don't uh is that right is that the I can't remember exactly the wording so it gives them the easement to use Island Club Manor to access the A1A that is our main Drive coming out of the two developments that's in your ccrs your uh your documents your home it's in our covenants it's in your covenants it's in the covenants and it's been reviewed by me and other people 100 times okay we didn't get far no that no but that gives us a a little bit more Ease on yes at least there's something in the ccrs that say that they have some kind of an access and of course you've got to come to that final agreement on what it is correct as he mentioned we'll still work on that with them and it it does state that the houses have to be at least similar to those in Island Club which I don't really see is an issue right now but uh it does not give us the right to deny access it's in the so they're not hanging on a 70% vote from the HOA in order to get this it's actually in the documents it doesn't really require a vote it's it's there it's in the law and now it's just a matter of us negotiating all these things like uh density of traffic we we would apply the same rules that we have in our community in terms of no Saturday work no work after certain hours etc etc all those things you're probably familiar with so that's primarily what we do and then there's the matter of the cost of the roads all that stuff they have to compensate contributions to that correct correct yes okay that is great information to have up here thank you very much thank thank you Ryan Mr chairman if I may I just want to add I can identify with all of your concerns but everything I've heard in here tonight does have to do with the County Commissioners again if the plan meets the [Music] long-term development plan of India River County and we've been shown by staff that it does it's not our job to decide on entrance on buffers on any of that that all comes in the future I can identify my family originally set settled that area in 1890 not 1990 1890 so you can imagine what I feel as far as the development I see there now but it's not my job to impose my feelings nor is it my job to impose feelings on you know the resoning qualifying because staff has proven that it does I encourage all of you to go to the County Commission with your your thoughts but it's just not the place here to do it thank you it's good to hear was good to hear all this and I think we understand where you're coming from and put the County Commission meeting on your calendars and make sure you're there uh everyone who's uh had a chance has spoken has spoken anyone else in that case we'll close the public hearing any additional commissioner questions none here none I just want to is it possible Ryan for uh that the developer to negotiate with whoever owns The Preserve like uh temporary Hall Road access construction entrance on their land as opposed to Island Club right um it's it's possible so that it's state owned but County managed but it's not something we would be in favor of exactly cuz yeah it that it not yeah that's not that's not like and I do what just last thing I was going to say and Mr Ro drugged my memory yet so there is actually a sort of a loose access easement agreement that was dedicated um to this property from the the developer of of Island Club before it turned over to the HOA so the HOA kind of got stuck with inheriting it but I think they the the the items that they need to iron out are really just the and and he's right it is limited to single similar homes if anything these homes are like I said are going to be larger CU even at the RS3 minimum it's a 12,000 ft lot so you know minimal impact correct Ryan right yeah so um but this is strictly the resoning we'll talk more about the design and all those things in the future with clarification that it might be approved by staff so but we will still copy everyone and they'll have a chance to look at the uh design and all of those things thank you Ryan so you're not done yet you have multiple chances to um interface with this um call for a motion motion to approve with staff recommendations I will second all in favor I opposed motion passes commissioner matters any commissioner matters I I've got one question for staff thank you um for the weekly updates we get on quasi judicial correct um some sometimes things don't appear on it for example example this didn't appear on that list why why um are some things do some things not appear I don't believe yeah I don't think we have the rezonings on there okay which is do well that that that list is primarily a current development list which is a different section okay um we could Endeavor to add it but I would want to talk to Susan about yeah no that just that that's a good explanation for why okay um planning uh planning matters uh yeah two two quick things Mr chair one um we have already advertised we had a good run of being able to cancel pnz but we have already advertised for the second meeting in March which is March 28th uh for a public hearing however it's also a spring break so for those of us with uh school age children or those who like to go on Spring Break um we may I I want to poll earlier than normal to try to see if we're going to run into Quorum issues uh with that so uh I may have Lisa reach out as early as next week uh to get individual attendance in fact expect that to occur so we can try to plan for uh Quorum issues and lastly um you may have noticed that this packet it was actually sent out by Dallas Rainer he's our new staff assistant Maria who was with us for 20 years uh went across the hall over to public works but uh everything barring you know barring an issue should now come from Dallas Rainer so I think everybody got the emails and the packets because everybody's here but just uh just re look out for that name thank you what what about April meetings any idea of April meetings um I think we're angling to have the second meeting in April we're going to try to avoid back to back to back meetings after our long reprieve so um maybe the second meeting in April that'll be yours okay good thank you um attorney matters so just kind of on the similar line as Ryan with the whole spring break thing I will tell you that um I believe attorney de bra will be appearing via phone for that meeting um because I am actually out of town and I believe attorney de will be too yes I have school age children so you're going to abandon us you didn't invite anyone unless you want to go to Legoland that's the 28th meeting yes so I Mr de will be covering in some form at that meeting so it will leave you in his obviously more than capable hand that for you excellent we're Jour excellent job