countship of poak on regular monthly meeting Tuesday July 16th 2024 Township of poak on regular monthly meeting Tuesday August sorry Start Over Town bu po haong regular monthly meeting Tuesday July 16th 2024 second okay go ahead right I'll call the meeting to order little after 7 adequate notice has been given to The Express Times and star Gazette satisfying the requirements of the open public meetings act we can all stand for a moment of silence and a flag salute [Music] please I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Music] all right we have some minutes from the June 18th meeting uh everybody have a chance to review them if they have any amendments or Corrections I'll move forward I'll second okay Gray yes Melvin yes slack yes motion to pay bills payment of bills presented in the proper form and signed by the director of each department and approved by the majority of the members and listed on the bill list anybody have any issues or questions with their bills not this oneth not this oneth Mo rep second okay Gray yes Melvin yes slack yes okay public comments anybody that has public comment pertaining to agenda items and agenda items only please come forward sign in and be recognized to make comment all right seeing none at this time we have a promotion of one of our police officers uh Sergeant Mike co co is going to be promoted to Lieutenant as approved at the May 21st meeting uh we need to administer the oath of office to Mr cozy if he come forward going to take pictures all right theolog this is perfect okay I Mike cozy I'm Mike Co who Solly swear or affirm do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and I will bear true faith and Allegiance and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and the governments established to the same and the governments established in the United States and in this state in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people so help me God so help me God I do further solemnly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will impartially and justly perform that I will impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of all the duties of the office of Lieutenant Lieutenant according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you I [Music] appreciate thank you for we appreciate [Music] it get some pictures take your time yeah it after all right we're going to skip number nine we don't have an executive session for right now we're going to go to the attorney report Kevin uh brief tonight um we uh I have had some discussions with Mark Peck recently who's the attorney for the degree um he thinks they're close resolving the the litigation with u Walmart and nationalty people on the uh Warehouse project at our at our business park um in the meantime you know we we accepted the streets over there so that that took most of the wind out of their sales in terms of bliss bouevard and Greenwood Street uh so I'm hoping that's going to resolve here in the very near future they're um proceeding with their NJB permits and um I would really like to see that project finalized and I'm hoping that will happen by call without negation did they say if they anything was going to happen in 122 intersection at all or not do is going to approve it there might be one extra turn on it sounds like that's what the approval is going to be as far as ing's uh and historic uh project in terms of potentially the Historic Society taking the property I think there's an in interest from them but we're going to they they would like to wait and finish up make sure they have all their approvals in place and I would say probably once they draw a building permit then we can talk about separating that parcel off um they don't have an issue with us acting as a conduit you know taking the title and then conveying it to the Historic Society um I haven't gotten into the nuts and bolts on what type of of donation monetarily might come with that but the bottom line is I think they're receptive to so I think that too will happen just that be wonderful need a little time did you see the letter that was sent by Michael marle today to him I see that maybe you want to CC but you you have a copy of make sure Kevin gets in well Mark Mike would be great for that project he's great for the story stuff um ZT Tanny wi's not here tonight but we'll processing that way for management plan Amendment for that again basically you know our mandated 100% affordable project um Kevin I did get the back tital D on on the uh that one gentleman who had to app the variance with respect to um shackel town and there's a there is a subdivision in the background so I'm going to try to get the background from that file from from our Landy for secretary in the meantime um there's also some interest in silver pill I know so I think we need to take a look at both of those we did already I think yeah okay so that those are possible streets to consider for accepting maybe down the road I guess we're on a roll with accepting streets lately so that's good um the cubes as the chief knows nothing really to discuss with you guys tonight but we seem to have broken through to a new layer in terms of numbers for a possible pilot program out there that would that would actually result in U and significantly more Revenue than we would get in traditional tax structure and that's where we've been trying to get to so they did they did send an email L today accepting so I on that that's great that that's looking good so I would say by our next meeting Scott and I we can bring our special development counil if you wanted to hear go those figures but those are pretty good figures I mean if that's the case they ought to be able to get they want to go building break ground before the end of the year absolutely that's what they want to do as you guys anybody seen the public obviously the rest of them allall is down they're ready to go and I guess I understand whenever we make our deal it's going to tricker a similar deal in L paccon they're just going to they were just waiting on our finalization they're going to do the same type of num as we do and and that's very important too because that as soon as they draw that building permit we get our affordable housing development fee which is 2 and 2 and a half% of the assessed value of J sign St structure which will make me very happy which is important for very happy for taret t so things are are coming together fairly nicely um in this otherwise pretty hot summer um I think that was about it for me I I do know and I did touch B mayor M apologize I couldn't make the last meeting I I do know members of the public were here last meeting and I see members here today tonight um I assume to discuss the same issue which would be the shimer school and I just wanted to try to save everybody a lot of time this evening um because legally speaking we cannot hear this Council the even and really discuss that development at all in terms of the pending development um two members from this Council are part of land use board an application has already been submitted to the land use board that's in the process of being reviewed for completeness by the engineer um when there's a public hearing ready there has not been being complete everybody within 200 ft of the project will get a notice uh and there will be a public hearing or maybe multiple public hearings on that devel uh that's the time in place for any discussion about the shimer school we are not allowed to really discuss the project itself here at all because that would Prejudice the two members who are going to have to adjudicate that approval of Ling school now having said that I understand from Council n and we were talking briefly um W Wanda and the staff did a great job you know if there's some procedural question about how we got to the fact that there's an application in terms of okay the Redevelopment process or something like that a process question only basically um you know when we get the public comment the mayor opens it up for the second time um I can answer those uh you know we have a two-page history there there is a long 20e history with that project by just wanted to emphasize for anybody who wants to talk about the specifics that will not happen here tonight anybody who starts down that road that's that's going to be at off because that would Prejudice the applicant and our land 's board so I just want to make that clear to everybody um be on that mayor lbody El has any questions that application became official before the board at their last meeting correct it was filed uh and I understand Wayne just did a complet with so until it's de complete uh it's it's it won't be advertised but once it is deemed complete it will follow traditional land use procedure as every other application this town is followed for 30 years or more so yes there'll be pool hearings and everything else um so that's where you have to account hold your gunpowder you in the public that potentially that could be at their next meeting the 29th or no probably not they it'll be advertised yeah abolutely I mean as far as the agenda and whether it's on the agenda well and and not only that I mean beyond that anybody who's within 200 ft there probably are a decent number of residents within 200 ft will be not by Statute they actually get their own separate written notes um so again that's that's consistent with every other application but because again it's a mixed Board of land board Z is made up of the mayor or the design and one other member of this Council so with that in mind any discussion of the merits of the pending application really can't do that and talk process about how we did R development stuff and happy to answer those questions but we really can't talk about development is the engineer's comment letter a public document or is that not until the for recording complet question uh because he sent that was forwarded to all of us today correct that that's part of that's part of the land use board's record but I don't really see an issue with a completeness review being being provided to the public it's just you know the completeness review is basically the applicant in this instance submitted their application pursu to the approved Redevelopment plan um our engineer then looks through that there's an extensive checklist for every application of that nature um and he goes through and makes sure everything is either there or not there typically you know applicants are fairly sophisticated these days um completeness on the first round is unusual uh and I think Wayne did have some some incomplete issues here they then have to go back to the drawing board amend their plans resubmit to the point where Wayne recommends completeness that recommendation will go to the land use board again the public can be at these meetings or public meetings once the board votes and majority a complete that trickers the stat repor notices for for notices to all you folks and then the hearings will start after that so I would say we're that's probably I would guess probably September the way things are going I guess maybe maybe that time depends on how how how I have to say that been relatively so getting to this point so it could take some time been two or three years it's been three years to get here so for the sake of transparency for the public yeah if they were interested in seeing comments on the complet of the application where would they go for that information uh they could all over request go to Wanda so just make an over to Wanda and Wanda Community account mayor do you want me to feel the question to here I see might as well we're on top I have a question excuse me can you just identify yourself please ohy okay thank you um what I was wondering is somewhere it's more process J so somewhere in the process that that property um the school property was reson as high density apartment only so when did that happen in the process because I don't know anyone that knew that that was happening so is that that public knowledge or listen yeah I think um one of the things we've always done it here in the almost 30 years I've been the attorneys we're we're pretty transparent here and actually we did a whole timeline you can ask Wanda for that too but generally speaking um you know we've owned this property for nearly 20 years I think we close I'm looking at it we got a be in 2005 the school board didn't want the building anymore they had actually put it on the market um for commercial use at the time uh the council at that point in time was considered converting that building into a newal building so we we actually bought it from our own school board for about half million dollar um and the idea of doing that uh lots of studies were done over the years um that basically lost steam there were some aesus in there there were some other issues and it was concluded that the work to renovate it would be as so that why you have this V you know this extensive renovation including this whole space and we stayed here at that point um we sat on it for a while at one point we rezoned it for um age restricted we were thinking about possibly maybe the age restricted housing there in 2010 to answer your question about the one the first rezone was a long time ago in 2010 the land use board did a a reexamination of the master plan which they require to do by Statute every 10 years so in 2010 they did their Master Plan update at that point it was rezoned to mixed use which was you know retail or residential or a variety of things that was the Zoning for many years after 2010 um as far as we started thinking about disposing of the property and getting it back on the tax rols in 2018 or 19 uh I think we had a couple boarded auctions we're we can't just list a property and sell it uh we have statutory requirements so we as a Township have to publicly advertise and do a public bitting process and an auction process for any surplus property we want to sell so along the lines of maybe 2018 or 19 when we wanted to start considering selling the building um we started looking at the zoning and everything else um at that point and to this day frankly uh Redevelopment has become kind of the buzzword in planning these days uh We've redeveloped we we did investigations and declared the mall as an example that's now Redevelopment that has very positive aspects for the town in terms of tax revenue and things of that nature the new Lin project that's a Redevelopment project and that's a process where you basically the planner and the Landy scard do a study we authorize that they recommend whether that particular parcel is eligible for what they call Redevelopment we did that process in about 2019 um that process is z was fully publicly advertised um that I think there's even notices that was sent to atorian Property Owners back in 2019 about the Redevelopment process the Redevelopment process doesn't really designate the property for anything specific it's basically a conclusion of the condition of the property and again it's tberg mall by way of example failing mall it's appropriate for redevelopment because if without that it may sit there and just become junk like it was become charmer School deteriorated older property sat for years and years and years again those types of properties are the properties that kind of fit into Redevelopment designation the designation itself doesn't say residential commercial or anything it's just a designation he went through that process there were public hearings the land use board has to review that in conjunction with the master plan I know I'm looking all this way but you ask the question so um that happened in about 2019 it meant the statutory criteria uh our Our Ladies board our planner Jim Kyle did a complete report again you're you're happy to ask Wanda for that if You' like uh the report was viewed by the planning board they recommended we declare an area in need of Redevelopment the shimer school property and actually the piece Bel at the bottom of the hill right I know it'll goes the other yeah there were two tracks um that's also zone for only Department no I don't believe so the rment ordinance I think only covers the topce but I'm not positive that's so the Redevelopment process happened we didn't have to send that down to the state the Department of Community Affairs have to review that they approved that as well and it became a Redevelopment thereafter we went out to auction again I think we had either one or two fail auctions as I recall finally or actually during the co period just before or so I believe we finally closed that's about 3 three and a half years ago 2020 or I want to think and was purchase that auction and the developer I think it's seia Holdings that's you that's you the proper sat around for a while they didn't W quite sure what they wanted to do with it um at some point they came to the council wanteded to start talking about taking advantage of Redevelopment and that's where the residential element started coming in as I recall they came in with a much larger project which is 90 or 100 unit type range um that was not going to fit on there because of the size strengths and so on so forth eventually was was negotiated discussed our planer reviewed our engineer reviewed and you have a 50 47 4850 I 48 now so it's 48 now that once that was basically that that concept was put in place that then is converted into a Redevelopment ordinance that kind of develops the parameters of that specific development that's one of the unique features of Redevelopment is that actually can work with the developer to design the parameters of the zone that was done in 2023 that again was all public hearings all this went to the land use board all advertised sorry if you guys miss it but I appreciate that cuz you're all busy working but you know all the proper processes were followed that happened about 2023 and that basically brings us up to 2024 um where at this point the and and this is where we really can't really talk further about that 48 units um no I don't want to talk about that I about why you zoned the way own yeah that's where it started that's where the to started that that that process is done and that's the time frame and that that's done and at this point they follow the application and the application will be will be considered in conjunction with that and that's it now the only other thing I will say yes why I'm not going to speak for the council they're all longstanding adults here they can speak for themselves but I mean I think the critical Factor was two things one obviously to get it back from the tax rols and it's been sitting there empty for a long time uh Redevelopment forg you the ability to do what they call a pilot which is a specialized Financial agreement that can generate significant tax revenue that can offset the bills you guys have to pay so that's one one important fact I'm go with my the second you know I'm just tell you that's that's one the second and probably wor critical fact is uh you guys have all heard of affordable housing it's really the driving engine of development acost the state right now uh if you go across the highway to Green Wich you see that new project underway that's a that's a 100% project we have our own 100% project we be doing here in this town that's not in the middle of the development this is two a discussion man we're not a public comment just giv youy of the dialogue of the assign frame but in terms of the why we did it these affordable housing projects are basically mandated we had a very large number of required units to develop in this town um that project is going to be an affordable housing project to the extent that will have a 10% set aside 40 of the units will be mark units eight will be moderate income housing units which are basically income qualifying limits that helps us satisfy our constitutionally ordered obligation that's been part of the court order so this project is basically part and parcel of our core ordered compliance with affordable house as you guys know everything south of 78 this where we're sitting here now and everything going this way to the river um basically 78 being the dividing line all that in this Township is Highland preservation area which this council did many years ago to try to protect against development not this Council Council um so that that's not available for anything that's that's off limit so we have about three or four Parcels left in this in this Township that we could basically plan for uh and that's where we got I'm sorry Josh H 305 pers just a quick question did you um just say that the doesburg project behind satisfied the 2 and half% of that's a monetary mandated monetary contribution that's not a number of units so that that that's actually producing zero units uh just was not um looked at that very hard at one point there was a possible site over there but because of the way that's configured neither can you have to recall we don't as a towns who control that entire property about 40% of that is O paccon so obviously that whole part of the property was off because he can't build poon's obligation on the paccon property so by the time you looked at all those factors um it just didn't work uh we looked at the parcel behind there but again with the residents in mind we decided to avoid that um really you were down to the business part there's a 10 Acre Site up behind the current truck stop um there's the zarbatany piece which is is developing with a 100% project which is key you know that will basically satisfy all our obligations going forward but we really were extraordinarily limited and the shamer school project which again I hope everybody holds again you have to hold your gunpowder tonight on the specifics of the project but I would when you get down there and take a look at it um and I know you guys are concerned about parking and all those things we spent an awful lot of time trying to work through those we had the same concerns but and again that's not to say those public hearings are for that process you guys that's that's democracy and I encourage you to go hopefully by the time you're done you you walk away a bit more comforted that as I I think it could be a good project for you guys I hope it increases your property values but you guys oh my God that's where it is we only have three four pieces of property going to increase for property value I just have a real quick question Jan Rosetti 408 Pennsylvania Avenue does that application for completeness does that include like water runoff sewer traffic studies or not yes the application for completeness just is literally there's a multi-page checklist for an application of this nature uh you know yes storm water this that you know it's very long environmental I don't know I I'm not the land use attorney at this point it's been a long quite a few years since I looked at but I can it's expensive and that's what the engineer goes through Compares what they submitted but yes ENT entally that checklist is supposed to to everything that they need to put before the board for consideration um if traffic becomes an issue that can certainly can expand beyond that but I again I'll defer to the L on sorry I'm betard I'm a nor Bard in that highway now I thought was going to call there's same cars it's all people going down to the industrial apartment and they going to come up from the development and I'm not trying to talk about that but I'm just saying about much Bard I mean I I do see police go through there but they really need to stop cars it's a green truck a brown truck Pennsylvania tags one of the Neighbors livs in the neighborhood little my car with the Red Roof she speaks she got SED down the other night there because there was car FR of her so they need to do a traffic put stop signs in Parkside got all the new stop signs I mean that they've been there for a while the March is the highway yeah we see it on New Jersey because theyo stocks traffic and issues like that relate to the project wait for you sp them oh no no but I'm just generally wait wait from public comment for the rest of that okay I don't think got that project I'm saying now it's bad any other questions on the process of the project yes sir yeah Jan 401 New Jersey uh I'm just trying to clarify you said that this application was already submitted but I felt that we were told at the land use meeting that it wasn't submitted yet so I'm just trying to I I believe it was submitted after the last land meeting before this meeting so the submission date itself that doesn't occur on an actual meeting they just submit you know they file their multiple sets with the pening board secretary and that that's your application and from that point goes to completeness then at that point again once it's deemed complete by our engineer then it goes to the board once they deem it complete then it goes back to the public hearing question I think that's the question that oh sorry not answer your question it was uh well I just um sorry I'm not quite sure when it was filed the application that's not was at the meeting and the correct me if I'm wrong the land use board seemed to tell us that the agenda that the next Us's meeting the 29th was when the applicant was going to come to turn in their application and then you're telling us now that it's already been turned in so that's I'm clarification it's not a physical come to the meeting here's my application the application is turned in it goes through a review process that you heard councilwoman gray and and folks speak to the engineers have gotten the application that will then come with a recommendation to the land use board from the professional then the land use board from a procedural perspective says yes we deem this complete or no we deem it incomplete so it was not on the agenda we did not have the documents and the review process from the engineer and that scheduled I believe for the next land use board meeting as was discussed at the previous meeting okay thanks but but it was submitted it just the process is longer than that's not it doesn't just go right to a land use board there's is process to it first before it even gets from them so they they weren't misleading you it was just it's just it was it has to be submitted to the clerk and then it's there's CH there's go first prior to like the engineer thank you thank you Kevin kin he's here on one New Jersey Avenue obvious on here for the shine matter you can help project there's one thing I wanted to bring to council's attention is that um there was um a resident in China man Avenue who's complaining about noise uh coming from Neighbors that were parying you know throughout the evening and U I looked at our no wait that that that's public comment s we have to this was just to try to save you guys time on the process there will be a public comment on any general items at the end of the at the end of Y okay we'll come back to that okay in regards to this conversation what was our total requirement for 4 more housing 190 somewhere ridiculous yeah was it's a very high number I mean it was originally the number was into the 200s uh basically the The Advocate throughout the state that was pushing the number there's an entity called the fair share housing center um there were you know there's 500 plus municipalities in this state they had 500 litigations years ago we were part of a giant push back if you will we we spent a decent amount of money on a on a joint expert push back on those numbers with a lot of other municipalities anyway to make a long story short the number did come down we did settle it for about 2third of what their number was but it was still a huge number what 14050 units or something and that's that's a lot with what's available to be developed is that going the satisfy requirement now I mean the Shiner School frankly it will help um especially and again I don't want to get into the complications of of affordable housing but but you get bonus credits for rentals that can multiply the numbers of actual units and make it worth more than those actually so it will help the big thing that's going to help you guys here and what should basically wrap up Our obligation for maybe for good because we're really going to be at full development um will be the 100% affordable project that's our between that would be 100 units um and when that's done um he be done there say any more in my opinion I mean that's that's we don't have anything there's really nothing left to develop I see the affordable housing it's also satisfying with homes for the de developmentally disabled or boarding homes or things of that nature a little bit for conversions two families three families we've done all that done all that in fact we uh up by you guys in ch we right next to the school we bought that dilapidated building actually we were gifted that from the foreclosing lender and we we we did that with habitat that was again an affordable project for affordable housing unfortunately you and habitat's a wonderful agency uh but again they have limited capacity they can only do so much they're not just doing it half time but we've pretty much explored all that we had uh affordable uh rehabs we we we gave money out to people who were willing to privately derestrict if you will we we've done over the years pretty much everything we've can and again a lot of that's with very good planners we' had over the years we we've uh we we've explored basically every possible Avenue but some of those things you're only allowed a certain percentage of your obligation and they're generally l so you can't just build age restricted senior projects they won't they only count for so much so is it prohibited to satisfy the affordable housing requirement south of rout 78 yes effectively the reason I say that a single family into a fre family or something of that nature well to have disa effectively the highlands preservation rules everything south of 78 there are different levels of the Highland that is the most sensitive Highlands preserv the entire entirety ofon south of 78 is the highest level of protection in the highlands you cannot extend public border or sewer for any project not you could even build a new Municipal Building any there so there are very limited bases for certain non residential development that the the Acres limits are are one one unit I think for 90 Acres so you know that's why a lot of farmers went preservation over that I mean went um you know you know Fe preservation through sabc because really you can't even do you can't even really subdivide and give a house to your kids over there very very strict on that side of effectively no Bel planning area of the Highlands is different over here north of 78 we're in What's called the existing Community Zone which is where they really want the dev so because there was people like shimer and the annex and so forth and so on and because we have public water and sewer already on this side of 78 that's what's called an existing Community Zone if you were look at the Highlands map you'd see deep Brown that's basically not about that's everything south of 7 then there's a l lighter brown transition area which we don't really have much of here in blackon and then north of 78 here existing developed communities and along Route 122 and 22 that's called an existing Community Zone which is where they want to go that's where we went okay last question the um next to the shimer school there was another parcel that was included in the uh in the but not it doesn't necessarily have a redevelop they plan for itself no generally you do a Redevelopment plan when when some developer comes along and wants to take advantage of the Redevelopment designation so you don't really know what they're going to want until you talk to them and then we have to decide you know where we're going to go from there so if somebody at the bottom of the hill there want to redevelop that that could redevelop commercial you or something else Al together or uh in that right now that also remains mixed use it until until developer takes advantage of the Redevelopment overlay then ation the underlying Zone which is mixed use at this time is still public so that could be a variety of things you're welcome that's it all right thank you Kevin uh everybody get a chance to review Lane Ingram's uh report anybody have any comments or questions F get move on to council reports ingred um Wanda forwarded you the second quarter report from the health department did see that in my email today you take a look at it it's mostly seic visits a couple of properties that needed maintenance and um one incident with the food poisoning from Taco Bell oh goodness at least it wasn't but but the investigation came up negative it was a yeah so it wasn't like there was found something I don't see any de uh the lower Delaware management Council met and it was very interesting there's a lot going on ranging from The Rock ball mitigation along Route 80 in the Delaware Warehouse effects on the Delaware River and the devil's tea table controversy where they don't want the state to tamper with the uh geography of the devil's tea table so if you're interested I can send you the very Hefty agenda but I think it would take a while you would want me to go through the whole list of what we talked about I um the historic commission met and we discussed G Farm of course and Scenic byway we're still waiting for the scenic byway meeting which is going to be in August this weekend the historic Heritage Society history and Heritage Society is hosting a tour at select countship Gardens this Saturday um and no improvements have begun at the railroad crossing on River Road because we're still probably still waiting for the do and I understand it was an accident there again recently motorcycle or a automobile no a car I thought it was cars right car ran off to yeah um and I guess I'll bring up um Tyler thing under the old business okay that's it for me Kev uh mayor for our court reports U we've added recently the Low Court um so uh we've got now three court reports for po hat for traffic complaints issued we had 163 we had 174 complaints disposed criminal complaints 28 and disposed of 18 the monthly um Municipal uh deposit was $7,000 $ 2552 for green witch we had 174 traffic complaints issued 182 disposed 41 criminal complaints and 11 of those disposed uh their monthly deposit was $680 61 cents and for lat we had 78 complaints issued 72 disposed 13 criminal complaints and um 72 disposed there deposit was 29384 um have we gotten the true up from green witch yet I know we they're waiting for their budget to get situated yeah no okay so the the true up from the 2023 green Wich court is still um pending but they have agreed to it and then um I've got in front of me the Philipsburg emergency Squad so for the first half of July they've had already 24 calls uh one in the lower part of the township and then uh 23 in the upper and for year to date they've had 275 calls uh the majority of them have been in the um upper part of the township with only four of them being lower and then um the land use board met there was a couple extension of approvals uh that were already um on the books and they just needed to get extended for uh permits and stuff one of those was for the battery storage and then there was a number folks that were here already uh evening that were there discussed for the um new latest application at the time we hadn't had it for review um but it is scheduled for the next plan new boor meeting and then Chief anything else from either police Oran uh did well actually I've been was on yesterday and today with OEM finalizing everything from the storms uh from July of last year finally we're finishing that up uh we should be getting reimbursement of about $75,000 for the fees that we had um to put out for storm cleanup um so that's a good thing uh then we have National Night Out on August 6th it's at the pakan school um we'll have another helicopters Landing again we'll have a bunch of fun things for the kids it's always a good time it's going to be School this year yeah we did it last year there and it successful so we're going to do it again there have it at on school that you said was the August 6 Tuesday Tuesday I that okay um and then any update chief on um uh boys with toys clearing out the back of the school Area sports field oh yeah yeah yeah uh so we well the sports Fields the first phase is complete um it was seated um it's Fen the security fence is up to until the the grass can grow um and now we just found that we can get some dirt in um I met with the architect the other day there um to for the concession stand the Pavilion and the uh announcers Booth um that's going to go up there um he is actually giving us services for free uh which is very nice of them um but that's that's where we're at now uh cuz the cost came in we we asked for electric and water um and fencing and the cost was almost triple what we felt it should have been by the developer that was that got the contract for the um Sports Fields so we you know we turned them down um and we're going to go to Avenue on that Chief do you don't need F dirt down there you need F dir um the job on 46 they're look they're giving away great fil dir if you want to up it's a council member who's running the job okay in another town yeah we need we need a lot they got endless supplies for free bring it here okay I'll take care that for I'm going to be in contact right now yep and what about the um I know you're were talking about going down there with a whole bunch of implements and clearing out that would yes uh so that will be happening um we just wanted to wait until the grass starts growing a little bit before we start uh because we were making a lane yeah on that side just to get there and um the architect was going as part of that his design is going to be what we need to take out what we're going to keep cuz we want to keep some of the trees for Aesthetics and then we have some really big rocks and boulders that they dug up that we're going to utilize that as well but there's a burn there that we have to be careful with because that's drainage for the school so he is he has all that going to calculate it all in so we're waiting on him for his final design so we know what we have to take out so you're thinking maybe October probably yeah yeah the fields definitely not going to be utied this year um and then the the road department is going to go out and uh mow the grass the high grass fields where the uh Pavilion and the parking lot's going to go so that we can start getting an idea of how we're going to design that as well great than Chief I just just looked on the agenda where does salv and Jelly Park uh bid sit right now not on our agenda that I see oh well so actually if you guys could verbally approve it from the from what we had that'd be great because I thought last I talked I sent everything to Wayne and he was calling the contractor and yeah yep yeah so it was under the it was under the amount we had for the grant um so if we can add that that'd be that'd be excellent well we need just as a motion yeah just as a motion and I'll I'll forward the documents to you guys I think they were fled before um when it first came in but um it was what's the name I'll get it I'll get it we'll deal with that when we come to motions because I want to get that moving that's sitting on the back burner too long all right anything else Chief no for all right thank you Kevin uh with the hotter weather I've been getting multiple complaints from residents um in the Ravine Area road noise and and people partying drinking carrying on uh dealt with a couple calls I forwarded it to the proper officer on duty and chief said he would try to address on the weekends but it's gotten bad over the last couple weekends with the warmer weather people are looking to get cooled off and that's fine but the noise and such is not fine like I said I've dealt with residents that weren't even that close to it to could deal with it here so what about on river we hav't the same issues River Road we haven't seen any issues since last year correct I'm going to be honest has stopped issuing the permits right I mean we hav't deal with complaints or people there trying to camp overnight yeah nobody's fought us on it and I just stopped because a lot of the people from out of state and if it's local I I say yes but we sort of do it without issuing um but if it's if it's out of state I've been just saying they're right now being suspended we not issuing um and I haven't had any fight background it's helped all right we're going to open it up to our budget discussion so with that I'll give it to Scott and our CFO if you can hear me but yes we're finally introducing the bud I there's a lot of reasons why it waited a little bit longer than wanted to this year um the whole idea behind the budget this year and the in the next few years because we're trying to restore Appropriations and operating expenses that and they level what should have been um over the years it's been cut even this year we had to cut 50,000 out of what we wanted to do for the operator budget however in order for us to pay competitive wages and fully fund our Capital um without necessarily going out to debt we're going to have to continue to make sure everything is in in the budget some of the examples are it improvements um we're concerned about proper security yeah even experiences like um washing test we were talking about before with the mayor uh especially with bank accounts and things we're working towards more Security on that um I'm going to be putting in some positive pay things with the bank and discussing with them but this all with it especially we can get hacked so we really have to make sure we we do improvements to that and also replacing the vehicles and equipment we have a list I know there's a list of things that we want to be able to do but that all takes time and we're trying to get the budget into a place where we can do these things um the good news is you spoke about pilots pilots are a great source for municipalities it just means that you take an area that was not being taxed at all except for the land and now we'll be able to get the benefit from that or else it wouldn't have been redeveloped at all it wouldn't have been so it's either zero or we get this pilot agreement because it gives someone an opportunity to be able to come in and afford to be able to do some good things to the land that's basically empty right um we know we have one coming on I think that's going to help us a lot to be able to offset taxes while increasing services to the town um including some of the miscellaneous Revenue but if we we do this correctly we'll be able to to go forward and increase the Appropriations to the place they should be without overly taxing the um residents in this year's budget uh this is just the introduction there'll be a hearing in August one of the days I'm not sure what the day is right now um and and the budget will be available for anyone to look at will be posed um we are under State review this year so what happens is I send it down I have have to talk with the state for hopefully quickly that they just review every single line on them and everything we do this year that's it's um done every 3 years so it's kind of um the tax levy is looking like right now about 3.98% we wanted to keep it under four um and it's about $124 increase a year on the outage house um we had a good colle ction rate this year but of course because there's certain people is not paying we have to raise taxes to be able to cover who not being paid because we pay the schools we pay the of the county 100% so these are kind of the things we're doing um we have statutory increases like pension and liability insurance but we were able to take care of that um we have it improvements this year 15,000 and we do have we're trying to put some money into the budget for Road repairs the whole idea is to try to reduce our dependence on borers um it costs a lot of money to borrow money as everybody knows right so we're trying to work it into the operating budget to be able to fund things in f um so that's basically it I mean um unless there's something you want to add I I think we're going in in the right direction it's only been the second budget from me uh and we have a lot of work to do going forward to be able to do the projects we need to do um and hopefully to be operting budget I I think the one important thing is to know like right now our total budget's around a little over $5 million so with the appropriation cap we only get 2.5% increase on that because because of the Caps the state has but you can also put uh an additional 1% onto that we have an ordinances allows that us to do so so you're looking at like 3.5% of our total budget is what we're allowed to raise our budget for operating expenses salaries and wages the mandates of you know uh our insurance and premium increases our pension increases but that also includes right now uh and which everybody feels it but our gas our electric every you know INF inflation's there and and you know we get everybody gets hits by it so if you only have a 3.5% increase you're you're looking at only about a couple $1,000 increase total um where that doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room so for while we were working on it we we were at one point at 87,000 over the cap um and that's where we had to start cutting the operating expenses of a lot of throughout the a lot of the department Ms here in the township um we we did everything we could and we didn't do it to cut services from the taxpayers uh we were able to like we have leaf collection uh we have the the street sweeping we have the brush dump th those are some things that we have available unfortunately at one point we were going to have to remove them because of how far over we were on the cap but what we did do was we were able to find we have a clean communities grant that we get so we were able to maneuver those funds towards that clean communities and take it out of the operating expense and move it to that so that we were able to keep those uh services for the town um it it it truly is imperative that we do have an increase in our ratables which allows us to obviously have more for our budget which then if our budget's higher our increases in the amount can be higher but still minimize the percentage of increase to the to the taxpayers but if we don't have that and we are just sat at what we where we are we will have no choice but to either one continue to cut Services cut jobs or you know I I mean I don't unfortunately I don't know what that answer is so this year we were good it's great that I mean good I'm I apologize that 4% is not always great but that where we were going to be this is is good compared to what we we did have in front of us when we started this process um moving forward we have Lin coming on and we have the others that we discuss we need them all yeah and and and we can't you mentioned the pilots until that money comes in we can't budget for it right but we we can future plan well that's the point that we will be able to with the agreement in the year that we'll be getting that money I can anticipate it and the good news about a pilot is that that money is sustainable continues right and it usually inflates over the years you know as they increase their went or whatever they're doing depending on the project right it's a great thing for the town so we would anticipate that Revenue next year yes as long as long so whatever whatever we have C on we can like know so Co is the gting correct so if we know we have Co on on one of the apartments on High Street we can then anticipate that into the budget but if we by the time we pass the budget if we don't know that we're going to get Co by the end of the year we cannot we will have to carry that over to the following year so that's that's the only issue at hand we have to wait till Co [Music] the other thing I just want to mention is we avoid one HT MERS um because they're not sustainable so what happens is say I get um we get something special come in we let that drop to the bottom line we want a good bottom line where I mean by fund balance because when we go out and have to borrow money which we still have to do um you get a much better rating when you have money in the savings account basically so that's of the other goals so say we get something in if we spend it on a certain item that's great like we have a wish list over here that's not so much a wish list but a necessity maybe we can use it for that but we avoid those onetime revenues because you got to make up for it the following year right you figure that into the budget this year you're going to be short that much in the budget next year so we moved towards avoiding all of that uh last year and this year of course there is an you know you don't want any of that right and one of the sorry one of the big things that uh we spoke about was you know the maintenance of our roadways within the township right so this year we put we we were only able to put 25,000 back into our Capital uh for that we have a we have a plan to build this each year to get us back to where we can complete the road repairs that are needed but the problem is is we we don't and we can't unless it's a a dire need emergency we can't bond or take anything any loans for that right now because it's just going to put us in a a bigger Debt Service and and we we can't afford to do that right now so we have to take the baby steps there um because if I mean I could have asked for to put 150,000 into the road repairs this year but you know it wouldn't be like would have toor right so if if you do it the way you're going to do it it's going to be in the budget for the future so now this year we did 25 right next year we'll add more so the 25 States each year you build it and build it right like Steve and I talked before we used to have that money every year in the budget and then it got cut years ago and now to try to get it back in it's going to take us years to get it built back in well that's our goal Y is to be sustainable and putting it as an operating expense basically although it's capital you know this is just repair but we want to continue to do that for everything as best we can because it's expensive to borrow you know we do have some debt out there um I don't want to necessarily have to add to it unless we have something and if you factored in and maybe this is more I me we've got some probably pending retirements upcoming retirements and potential payouts y That's fig that's going to hit us we've been prepared it it's not going to hit we have it set aside yeah we took some of the money that was left from last year from different areas we had just enough and I was able to move that to a reserve just for this issue for retirements and things you we're trying to build that up as well because it hasn't been built up at all right now we have a three-year plan on that that we built um and it's there and it's sustainable so it so it doesn't at no time then will anybody be coming to you guys and say well we don't have this we have it for those for that you know we planning reserves for that those kind of things like the storm reserves and things like that yeah we put we put whatever cuz last year was a light year on say salt right so we had left over we put that into the storm Reserve so that if we have ahe of year we don't have to go and find the funding for that we have it now as sort of a savings account in case there is a bad year thank you the other thing is she an talked about the it improvements it's not like for instance this year we got mandated by our insurance company for cyber security that cyber security alone is costing us $122,000 a year so that fact we had and that's that has to come into the operating expense it can't it can't go into the capital project so like that was one of the reasons so we had to add that but cut from other places because of the mandates so is that is that infrastructure updating or is that a service it's a service that we have to that we have to have doesn't provide anything like that no and this is a mandate from our it's not even a state mandate it's a mandate from our insurance provider I have the same thing everywhere yeah there always those are some examples that like beyond our control but mandated we get a lot of uned mandes anybody have any questions for our CFO or our bu thank you thank you very much an you're doing a tremendous job I know you had to play catch up and fix but you're getting a for yet no so sir I'll ask a question on behalf of councilman still up has the onion finally been peeled no no but it's we just talked about three things in the office before that we still are on peeling we are we're still for the most part though yes also uh let me mention that the audit is almost finished as well all at the same time you'll see a few um resolutions in here that are basically related to um some of the comments comments in audit and one of them is um the grand fund we're canceling some of the old old ones from 2015 and that will drop to the bottom line that will help us for next year to build that fund balance number um so you'll see some of these things um coming in as I peel the onion a little more we'll try to do some more canc yes okay so we also in the budget put money in for the revaluation um and hasn't been done in many years and we we have that ratio that keeps going down and it's kind of it's a rule really once you get under 80% you have to go and re do a re Val also the fact that property values have gone up it's important for us to get out there we have to anyway and do the revaluation of the town and what that means is they go around they see what your what everything's worth compared to other towns and other places and it reevaluates the entire town for what it should be which is a good thing for property owners as well and with that number we still have the same budget number but the tax rate will come down to match so if your Ral goes up the tax rate will come down it's the same basic formula but this has to happen and we're working on it we started last year year um by updating our tax mask we have $9,000 again this year to do that we think signicant nut though right that's that's a significant amount of money we have to that well it's big money yeah it's big money we'll bid that it's actually not been as bad um smaller rural municipalities like ours C that uh there's a there's only six licensed reval companies in the state the one that's been getting most of the of the small is by and and I say small it's the number of Assessments there really the number of property buildings Etc you know we're relatively small we're big geographically small number of assessed uh units if you will uh PPA has been mostly the ones getting them I just did one in beler just going gardeners is starting this year uh I'm hopeful the number is not going to be as bad as you guys but you can spread over 5 years but it is I'm just going to Sayid you can I can say that'll be good news for our assessor Jen because she and I are both fighting it's really not so much you residential people the Rev reval saglo mandate but the the commercial ratables um we end up getting tax tax uh litigation and when that ratio deteriorates it really puts our cessor and myself in a way behind ail where we we end up settling these cases because our ratio so the perod so it will be important going down the road to put some money in there now it's a good idea well we started last year Council gave us in this in the budget last year 9,000 as well so we're working towards that and once we get the tax Ms up to date we'll be planning I think it's 25 2025 to 26 we're going to be going out there and doing the Rev and yes we could spread it over five years so say we did it in 25 in 2026 we would be Miss by that out declare emergency we can do that but that's important especially the T questions I'm right thank you both you need make ation no sir um we have to wait because we have to adopt all those resolutions first yes the one especially about the Deferred School TX has to be adopted first and then we have a resolution to introduce the budget like we have seven several resolutions anybody have any issues take them all together want to pull any of them out I make the motion we take all seven together I'll second Melvin okay great yeah Melvin yes slack yes all right with that now we can introduce our budget Wanda m yep I'll mov forward okay and let's do the public hearing schedule we're going to H I'll add a motion but the public hearing of and Adoption of the budget will be on Wednesday August 14th at 400 p.m. we I think Steve said he can't make it right he can't so we need all four the rest of you because you have to have a super majority I think for The Bu I think it's only the three cuz I can have John ingred Kevin and the mayor so I would have four anyway four is okay okay I think you see a super majority yeah so make sure we have we'll have it on the 14th 8:14 at 4 come up with the ad okay okay and then I'm going to call the r gray yes Melvin yes slack yes all right ordinances for first reading we have none we have ordinances for second reading we have two 2403 and 244 uh I'll open them up to public comment or public hearing right now second second that all in favor I uh mayor 243 the tree removal ordinance is really this is again talk about mandates this is another mandate from the D this time because we were we a p more commit municipality uh I I actually watered this down say we dumb this down a lot we we did dumb it down a lot because um the proposal for the D every person in this room would be like permit to cut down a shrub um so we we did water it down pretty significantly to make it easier on the on the uh the residents um that's what that one is the second one uh this is actually to alleviate some of the at this point would use the adjective extreme paperwork burdens on the chief with his Police hat um this would would let the chief delegate to a third party vendor um basically scheduling and collecting on payment when our officers work off duty for like traffic control and things like that which actually happens a lot so this would be very helpful doesn't cost us anything the Outside Agency will get an additional fee on top of what we collect and also took a negative off of our audit yes that's yeah that's great yeah so that's what that's what those two ordinances are about anybody's any questions this is open to the public if you got questions or comments on the [Music] two seeing none uh motion to close and adopt second okay Gray yes melan yes SL yes we have one motion oh we're going to have three oh okay we have the one listed on our agenda we have the additional motion to put or authorize um the bid for repairs to be done at salvan jelli uh Park and what's the third one Wanda to uh uh advertise for a special meeting on August 14th for the public hearing and Adoption of the budget okay so we have three motions all okay Gray yes Melvin yes slack yes and you'll get the wording to that motion for the Angelic Park I looking for Adam it'si but I can't remember the company but we'll fill in the blank on the contractor Adam Z I'll send it out tomorrow what I found in I I text somebody he didn't get back to me okay just give me an update as to when it's awarded and when they can start you did just a well it's awarded but either way when they accept it and we get started we have to greenr now that we're finally I'm sure they'll wait till after it's done yeah wait till after don't all right and just keep keep the fire how long they say it take I have not talked to him that was lan so I I don't have a time frame we'll have a time frame once this is award then will know because that's when we'll set up the parameters for the time frame and know I'm going to put the mayor and the chief in connection with Adam he's a councilman in Bel here but very used to doing public work and I he's very efficient but we need a contract Kevin will you do that yeah I think it was in the bid spec oh was it okay then maybe Wayne already has it okay I'll do a quick contract okay yeah remember this was out yeah yeah but we can just get okay all right so now it's the time everybody's been waiting for it's open to public comments just keep in mind what Kevin had stated about uh what we can and can't talk about if anybody would like to make public comment please come forward sign in my name is lon I live at 210 New Jersey Avenue and it's actually just a quick question because something um Miss gray said last time about not putting things that don't fit in and brought up a concept of somebody wanting to do an an addition on their house if I go to do an addition on my house I'm going to have to set Adit my my application but then I'm going to have to go to everybody who lives around me and they could actually say no we don't want that to happen and that could cause me not to be able to work on my own property how does that differ just From perspective of I'm a new homeowner how does that differ from this process for well typically no l sport approval is required for an addition for actually even a single family resident they're they're generally exempt if if for some reason you have a setback issue if you have a smaller size lot or something yes then then you would have to apply for what they call Vault variants just to build a little closer than what the ordinance says um but um the process would be you talk to the zoning officer submit your plan and if if he can give you the permit or if he can give you the zoning clearance he will if he feels he can't then he go to board I think it's more along lines of how is it my neighbors could say no we don't want you to do that and put a Kash on what I'm trying to do on my property but as a neighborhood we can't have that kind of say of what's being built into our neighborhood well that that's that's the incorrect premise I mean basically on a varying situation if you had to app for variance you which you would give notice to your neighbors but they certainly don't have an automatic no they can they can publicly comment whether they like it or not but at the end of the day landage board determines whether to Grant you the relief or not so there there's no I wasn't trying to call you out or anything that's what she said last it's a consistent process I mean at the public hearing for shamer school it's not that the residents have a veto power but they can certainly Express their their opinion they express concerns but at the end of the day the board carries the jurisdiction like if board feels you meet whatever relief you're looking for for a hardship or whatever it's the board's decision I mean your neighbors can come and express their concerns everybody can air out why or why not but at the end of the day it's the board's discretion am I correct Kevin absolutely I mean the board will weigh what's brought before them as far as pros and cons but at the end of the day it's the board going to Grant you the variance not you know your neighbor saying no I'm I'm still learning about the permitting processes and stuff it get frustrating I can understand and sometimes zoning gets kind of tough too but the zoning officer sorts through it and figures out whether you need to go before the board or whether what you're asking for already conforms to our zoning laws if it does then it's cut and dry he'll issue it on the spot and get a building permit and go but if you have have like a side guard setback where your uh addition is going to encroach on what our zoning says is acceptable then you have to go for a variance but Kevin your board's usually pretty pretty relatively receptive to those kind of applications yeah I mean I mean I sat on the board for a while I mean I can say they weren't all approved but most of the time no they work through it and to the points that have been raised here is that the totality of the evidence from what's being presented and all the public feedback goes into the decision Mak process so there's no automatic veto by by you know your if your neighbor says well you know what you planted a tree here you put your shed here and I don't want it there that that doesn't necessarily mean it and to the mayor's point you start with the zoning officer to find out what you know if it's conforming or non-conforming and then if it is conforming you just get a zoning permit and then you go down to DCA on one 73 to the state did that multiple things so far yeah and so I was just doing a compar I wanted to understand the comparison between that process and this process for the Shiner manner situation so that that answer my question I appreciate that Mr dudy you add something you wanted to wait for public comment um yes thank you oh my back my back in the heat um it's good that the police chief is here there was a complaint from the sh man of Resident last last time last meeting in regards to noise and I was looking at our noise or that was the doctor I believe doctor and and the woman across the street H's very ill our noise importance require is there to be a certified noise control officer and I was wondering do we are any of our officers certified because the is worth this we uh yeah that's only at the county level say we do there one count we'd have to call the county out um and that's more for like uh construction sites that might that they they would come out with their decimal reader what do we do with partyers so like if you have a noise ordinance there there's a time frame too and all it states is that it has to be an inconvenience to the individuals like if it's during the middle of the day and somebody's having a party like we're probably going to ask them to lower the music but like if it's later at night if if we're called we're going to go and say you got to turn it down if not they're in violation of the news is yeah but if we're not called to it we you know we we don't know it unless we drive by and hear it and we really have to have the complaintant to call us right also with all of these development projects going on are there off track improvements required or or can they be asked them devel oh yeah I mean there 122 is a classic example somebody mentioned Alpha's industrial parking and there's going to be major off track improvements to 122 all the way up to 22 now again we have limited jurisdiction on that most that road believe or not a state highway but some people don't realize that so that's the MJB highway but that developer has an application pending before the do and yeah they and there are usually other off trck improvements and Industrial Drive getting sound yeah they're absolutely I mean you have to follow the statue at complex I don't see any sidewalks thinking people up 122 the Walmart posi design thing youd have to talk to Landy sport I don't really recall they look off movs like that um and then also there was the complain about the traffic going up March Boulevard in New Jersey Avenue um the uh I I would have I would like the township to take a look at four-way stop signs on the intersections and also speed bups CH I don't want to jump your thunder on that but I believe the four-way stops are again we have relatively severe limitations on certain things we can and can't do the four-way stops I believe are are basically barred To Us by do you need to have a whole traffic study and submit that to do and I think we've effectively we've been told they never give them anymore cheap is that they created four-way stops on most of their intersections so but a lot of their roadways are not connecting County to County roadways or County State yeah so like for instance March Boulevard right it's still it's still a connecting roadway from a toy road to a state road of 122 so like in philbook I know we talking I I they put a ton of them in yeah but those are all Municipal roadways that they have more jurisdiction to do that where when we have these connecting roads we have to submit to the county or the state in order for them to review the plan and then approve it not saying it's not possible but they are less likely to do it compared to if we were just making the decision and how about speed bumps so speed bumps so here's the problem right as you all just heard we talked about our budget lows here um we just had a resident come in for a property down here on still Valley Road requesting a speed bump I went and got prices every speed bump to put in is $55,000 so I I don't know where we would get the funding for that it's right but you know I mean that's something that would have to be brought to the land use for that that that can't be done at this level here right plus then every time the snow plow comes we have to have specific speed bumps or else they're going to be brought up by the snow plows and then we're going to have to be replacing them and I know they seem to work [Music] lot Senate President Steve Sweeney he's having his neighborhood Anville gotth them French Town's got them I mean this sounds like something we ought to try to apply for a grant somewhere with the state or the do if that's the case I mean this is not something that's uncommon as as was mentioned here we've got residents uh from other ends of the township where and it's the same thing where we got people from Pennsylvania that are just cutting through trying to get to 22 we trying to get I mean even still Valley Road right up here you wouldn't think it still Valley Road we've actually got we have a resident that brought gave us camera footage of how many times theyve hit his house they actually go go across the bridge come flying across and they hit hit the garage and so this has been a challenge that we've been trying to address and we're trying to be creative we'll accept all the feedback that we can get but you heard the chief right we're we're trying to say how can we address this and speed bucks may be an an option I can tell you when the when the warehouse started to come for Gana I wanted to weight restrict a number of roads I couldn't because they fed the state road just as the chief said we don't have jurisdiction over our own road because it's a fear to a state road or a county road so our hands are tied in some of these instances but we Tred to be as creative as possible we've investigated speed bumps we put in stop signs in some neighborhoods where we have complete jurisdiction because it doesn't connect to a state or count we've already looked into the fourways for sh man so if you notice in Parks side if you notice in Parks side there's there's some intersections that do have four-way but those intersections do not connect to St James Avenue where the ones that do connect to St James Avenue you only have stop signs on two of the sides and then it's still a throughway on the other so like that's an example like you do have them in park side right but you know so but the problem is is Shiner Manor except for what uh Ohio yeah right Indiana Indiana right like Ohio connects too so I mean Indiana is the only one that doesn't connect from County to State roadway in sh as major issues with fourway stops and and also [Music] speeds who would no said it wasn't possible it just said that it's it's a lot harder you know I mean who would be the one to take a look at this would Ingram know what what would get approved and what wouldn't I think I think it was I I want to say it was looked at before I think it was when they were doing Parks side but there just wasn't the funding to do shimer I want to say if I remember correctly maybe we need to look at yeah can't let this place just keep tra tra yes which he did not do I don't know [Music] so far off oh yeah it can be looked at but was just wondering I know a couple months ago maybe March you made a comment we have Al live about the G Farms that we were not on was it g had the mall the property behind the mall yeah the mall that we weren't on board CAD doesn't want it forg it yeah that would be the property behind the mall not is the mall turning into like a the mall is being developed we had that all along that was going to be redeveloped the property I was referring to in the interview was the property behind the mall the 100 it's close to 100 acres it lies behind the mall between the mall and the low Pac concrete there's a proposed development for that low Pat is going to go through it we pulled our interest in it we have no interest in having any development back that was the one that I commented to the the express or the Lehi Valley L yeah we're getting L warehous we're going to be warehouses warehouses shimer my my main concern there was our Firehouse got flooded terrible in those storms last year I was down there and saw the water and if they keep developing along that low Pac concrete like they're doing is just going to keep increasing in my eyes at least the water that Creek's carrying and flooding potential so that was kind of why we pulled the plug we weren't going to end up with much development there anyway uh we had gotten a lot of flaque from our residents about that particular piece so that was when we decided that we didn't we didn't have any interest anymore I mean to us or at least to me personally the malls already been developed ever since that farm field was done away with back in the 80s that's developed property you know so it might as well stay developed keep it as rable and you know put some money in our taxes but the other property wasn't developed so that's going to have more effect I feel like on our Bhed and our lowack concrete and like I said after being in that Firehouse seeing the water helping the guys sweep it out that day now that kind of hit home think I PL it again I think well that was the last go round that I'm aware of I just talked to Tom the other day our chief and he said they had to come up with I forget $144,000 of flood insurance now that they' got to pay every year for the firehouse and anything we can do to keep you know a situation like that from happening again to me is is worth um we we have a a firm right now ELP it's our old Engineers are looking into anything we can do along that low pack concrete from our Township aspect to reduce to risk of flooding down there I'd suggested they dredge under the bridge so water can carry better there and whether we get anywhere with that I don't know but that was the the factor build up to that bridge there that goes over the road right there and backed everything up and like I said flooded our Park our Firehouse I mean that's our where we keep our fire equipment we can't have that you know it happened so fast the guys really couldn't prepare they got the trucks out but that was it our emergency right our emergency management works out of there as well right Chief that's that's our secondary secondary but these are all the things we look at when developers come in and want to do more work in our town you know we got a way to froze and C but like he talk you talk about Warehouse Alpha you're going to be impacted more by Alpha than anything else don't don't even start they're going to put three or four in and all that traffic is going to come through our roads and we're going to get squat out of it other than traffic industrial and it and those proper those projects literally we didn't even get noticed only when I started to S there's one that's going to go up on edge road that's going to dump water into our drainage which where we already have a problem on still Valley Road and I've asked our engineer to review it and make sure that it meets all the current criteria but these are where the problems come that these other towns don't even have to come to us at all they can just do as they please I feel like yeah you and I that one meeting at alha just voice our concerns then and they're going to get all the rbl and then dump all the traffic in our town up 122 and it's very frustrating you know as we sit here trying to make our budgets work and you know looking for a few ratables to come in where these other towns do it and it just it's very frustrating I just have a question H Baxter on 2011 Le Boulevard are we are you putting warehouses also with P haong right across from 122 that's the one proposed site other than Mo yes that's what's what's been approved that went through the whole land use process months ago but isn't that I mean is that um that property there was sold years ago yeah that's that's been sold because years ago we F that those warehouses did not come in it was probably a good one that wasn't 20 years ago they had put a limit was it was quite a while ago that we fought and went to meetings so we did not get warehouses put in our neighborhood and now like you look around and there's loaded with ware houses all over the place we're poor little yesare what we need that's what it ispressed are I don't I don't disagree with anything years it's apred are 54 I got in so we're we're right there together that's just cuz you're older maybe [Music] I'm go ahead I'm not sure that there're still there um and either end the entrance it says not a through street is that still up there are there signs still up there no what does that I'm not being sarcastic when to say but what does that mean absolutely nothing me years ago yeah unfortunately those signs were put up as a potential deterrent but they have we cannot enforce them at all they they were put up years and years years ago but they they me absolutely nothing yeah cuz I've been up there 5 some years too I just thought about that now I mean it's there and but just set somebody out watch you see the same the same time you know it's nice so I sit on my front porch I can only I'm on New Jersey Avenue and there's two houses away as a family with a bunch of kids and I've seen their kids almost get hit by cars playing soccer in the street around their yard I don't have children but it it scares me when I'm seeing them um or somebody you know they're out walking their dog and the cars just go any time of day that's worse than others mornings evenings middle of the day I would have I work from home so I would have to say like mid midm morning and then more so around to Chief is is there any any potential for radar or not we will go out I'm just going to be quite honest with you um you guys are not the only neighborhood because there's a bunch of neighborhoods that are complaining about through traffic it's out people from church and like for instance during the day I have two police officers so if they're out at the calls doing whatever they're doing I I'll be ass sign every they have to do a minimum of three radar detals a day the officers it's it's mandatory so but I can't promise everyone that they're going to be there when you want them there it's just not that's not reality especially when we only have two at a two two working at a time you guys own any of the um monitors the yeah we have two trailers M yeah put them up is something we can I'll ass sign somebody to start moving them around um the neighborhoods to different streets the problem is if they see it more than like you know there for like a few days then they're like oh that means nothing and it's just like it's just like when if I park my police car on the street oh yeah everybody slows down hits the brakes you know you breaks their neck but the second I'm not there you guys are seeing what you see so it's it's I we can hide as much as we can hide we can inforce and enforce but if they don't if they don't see us there they're going to do the behavior that they do anyone and it really stins Chief I know when I went through a construction zone of PA one time I got a warning in the mail from an automated speed reader any chance that we can do anything like that not New Jersey that's just like a red light camera they have red light cameras speed cameras anything in New Jersey do they have anything like instead of having like like you said if they see the the the radar there is there anything that you put up like on like I don't know what they are but when you're going through you see the lines across the road I don't know if that's what those are for those are most traffic studies like you mean the little black lines that go across those are mostly connected to a box that are doing a traffic study is something like that that you can use to to monitor how like you're you're seeing how fast they're going across those lines instead of seeing a a radar there it's just capturing the information without people actually kind of seeing it yeah the problem is is in order to do any enforcement in the state of New Jersey the officer has to see a potential violation like we get trained to watch it and predict the speed once we predict the speed then we hit our radar unit if the speed matches within three to 5 miles an hour we now know what we observe we have to have a Doppler tone a steady do tone then we are able to enforce because if we enforce without any of that the tickets are getting thrown out even if we write a ticket if we don't have all that it means absolutely nothing because then people are going to learn that we can't do it and we're just writing tickets and then we potential lawsuits and it it just the state really ties your hand to hon it's fun we were kids from the neighbors used to put out tones and horses and and they would just close the streets right in the summer or if there was SLE and we had like three streets closed with a big hill and cars of bar beep and everything and all the guys like go around too bad you know to andbody one my neighb wasn't imagine children at Play sign slow down something I mean you can do it yourself to all right um we don't need an executive session you said right Kevin or no we all right ingred you had one piece of old business you wanted to well we didn't get a chance to talk about this huge submission that Tyler gave us at the previous meeting and we didn't talk about it because you weren't here but he has all of this documentation photographs of people speeding license plates data tallied on the number of cars he's got this all set up there to show the incredible amounts of violations going on there and with something like this is there nothing that we can do to help that area I I don't um like what the speed bumps that he asked for or anything right so like can we do anything my guys are there I have the documentation but they they can't sit at the curve like where he's complaining at his house is a curve coming down and a curve going the other way we're not we cannot get a steady radar there because of the situation of the roadway so what about his radar he's got this hooked up to his computer he's taking pictures it's all technically but I guess couldn't you catch him on the other side of the tunnel cuz you would think that's what he said yeah great stalker dri as soon as they come over you would think they're going to be accelerating after they come out of that Cur and going and that and that's where we do get them there but in front of his house we we can't sit I get it that's the problem I see but if he's taking pictures and he has his own computer documentation of how fast these vehicles are can he make his own reports to the police station and say here I've got my computer hooked up this guy was doing 50 m an hour here's a license plate number can he file a complaint and get these people summoned summoned yeah no why not still pay the walls written yeah unfortunately in order to prove so so here's the other part right if he has a license plate and he and he does have a camera that shows his speed right one it's illegal in the state of New Jersey to utilize that because they banned it right with red light cameras speed cameras they they Bann it so that's step one so it's not just it's Universal it's not right but but even if so so say say we could utilize it right and you have a license plate if you don't have a picture of the individual driving and be able to identify them you can't issue the car you have to issue an individual the only time you can issue a car in the state of New Jersey is if like it's an unregistered vehicle parking violations stuff like that because you're you're issuing that vehicle and the registered owner under those statutes are responsible to have it registered not parking legally so on and so forth but when you're driving and if it's a moving violation under title 39 subsection 4 any moving violations the individual that's driving has to be identified and then has the right to have a defend of what they did or didn't do but I guess to to the council woman's point is the data he captures with regard to time you know for example if there's a Peak at 7:30 a.m. and they're come blowing through there because they're all going to work getting about 22 or 78 then that data could be important and valuable because then the chief could give it to his officers and say hey around this time this is when we expect to see a high volume right so Tyler has all that he but he's provided it to me and I've provided it to downstairs from the times to the to the officers that are going out and running them yeah cuz he he emails me the same thing and then I look at the data you can see it you know the times that there's influx of vehicles and that's when we assign the radar okay so my last question is being that a speed bump that would be very helpful at that place cost $5,000 um if private citizens raise that money can we give it to the township to install I don't think I think so I don't think it's that again I think that speed bump you're going to find out from Wayne Ingram our engineer that because again Chief said that's a connector road now this is for still Valley still Valley Valley but it is connect to 173 count that's going to require de approval so before we make an right why don't we why don't I email Wayne Ingram the engineer yeah and get an answer from him to if to if it's feasible if it's not feasible then we know we have to try to find something different right I I'd like to do something one thing if we can do that I know Wayne was here and he said that there is a grant for traffic study for situations like this on Ro roads he mentioned that at the last meeting missed the the application deadline this year but if we could to anything but I think it's worthwhile the conversations we've had I mean we've had we talk about traffic at multiple meetings on different roads different neighborhood last six months here and so you know I think it is worthwhile to seeing if there is a grant out there that could cover multiple neighborhoods so that we we can then take advantage of do we have $100,000 sitting around so it can put in 20 bums we just heard about the budget we don't right but if we can get a grant that covers the bulk of that I mean I would think we get guide guide re grants all the time I I can't see and signs aren't cheap either right signs are $5 signs are $500 right but I I think for all these speed bumps we should explore whatever kind of Grant opportunity but we need to talk to Wayne to see whether these things would qualify as a Grant application if they are pursue that just like we do with the guy R so I I will send an email to him tomorrow for still Valley Road and reference to the speed bumps for shimer Manor in preference to I I'll ask them about this spe stop signs I'll ask them for the fourways I mean stop signs are hell of a lot cheaper than speed bu so this way then our engineer can tell us what we can and can't do and then we can have some information to inform the public a little bit better and then we can come up with a gain plan as to what is financially feasible and what is not and then we can go from there all right let me back up now if we would somehow be able to put stop signs in M I just heard you say about radar so hard to set up blah blah blah if somebody runs a stop sign and there's an officer there that Witnesses it that's a black pretty much black and white right write summon for movement violations correct yeah stop sign sign violations are easy right way easier than running radar and everything else way easier so that would be much easier to enforce yes talk to Wayne and see what feasibility we would have as far as you know whether the state would allow us or not okay thank you all right any other New or Old business hearing none motion to adjourn all in favor all right thank you everybody for coming out tonight too I appreciate having an audience