Township of poak on regular monthly meeting Tuesday May 21st 2024 all right I'm going to call the meeting order quar after 7 adequate news has been given to the exess times and start is that satisfying the requirements of the open public meeting act you'll all stand for a moment of silence and a flag salute I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for [Music] [Applause] all everybody have a chance to take a look at the minutes Ona councilman Melvin said he had some an amendment I I corrected it for him very good I'll make a motion uh we accept both sets minutes as amended second gray okay Gray yes still yes and slack yes okay now the next one councilman St you can't vote for the May 2nd special meeting all right so one of you guys got make a motion I'll make that motion again I'll second it okay so I say gray yes and stillo I'm sorry and slack yes okay motion to pay bills payment of bills presented in proper form signed by the director of each department and approved by the majority of the members and listed on the bill list I make the motion to approve second okay Gray yes still Yes slack yes public comments anybody from the public have any comment pertaining to agenda items and agenda items only come forward sign in seeing no public comment uh we'll move on to the attorney's report not a lot for tonight's agenda uh still going back and forth on um Jen Jeff withth Linsky the chief on uh possible pilot numbers for the the mall uh that that's looking difficult frankly but we'll see what happens but and I'll just leave that at that there there were some figures out there but frankly as I think the chief has said before they're not even worth talking about at this point we're just on different planets uh so we'll see what happens with that um update I think you guys I know the Chiefs gets stuff and I know the mayor gets stuff from me but just so I don't have a a meeting by email there we do have on the the the agenda tonight an ordinance to accept Bliss and Greenwood streets which I think if his points appropriate um if you remember I did that initially December and then we decided to help to hold off because there was a lawsuit filed by national realy in Walmart with respect to the Greek property um they were supposed to wrap that up get it settled it's lingering it's lingering I had a conference call with uh Don Pepe the attorney for Walmart um cof Richard Coffman I think is the attorney for national realy uh Walmart's basically resigned really what they're complaining about is nothing our board has jurisdiction over it's NJ doot really jurisdictional issues with 122 and the 22 access and so so for the national R guy thinks that somehow njdot if I understand what he's saying she you laugh at this he he thinks that somehow NJB would give would give a left on one 22 off of 22 coming like if you come off 7 East and you're heading west and you got like 500 yards or less till that first light and the after do the loop to come around now they think somehow they get I'm like never happen it's never going to work 170 there's no way don't you think do would have said something if they sold in the plans originally you know they're not going to touch that so anyway but they they they have and plus they really put on no case in terms of opposition when before the borders I understand that they they didn't really do much they didn't commit with an expert or anything so they're daily B short but the extent that they still privately own those roads that's a little bit gives them a little more leverage and at this point I I think we should be prepared to take that away and just accept the rip so that that's what that ordinance is on the agenda mark p I'm still there still I'm still hoping that they resolve that quickly um Mark peek uh it's the attorney for the Greek he's trying to appease them basically what they're trying to do is say they're they're going give the ridiculous plan that that National realy prefers to NJ do and wait to get enough is they say where we're at but in the meantime I I think we should accept the streets also the other reason we can accept them is they've been fully improved now you know all new Paving everything the way Wayne wanted it so so I think we should take that's that um John what's this Polo well I was say do I I spoke briefly with steinard I've spoken with the mayor I my understanding is that there we we may have they'd like us to reconsider participating with the piece in the back so um and there's a couple permutations that but one thing I but what I wanted to do for you guys what I sent today is because it's been a while frankly since I looked at it I sent you Jim Kyle's original Redevelopment plan that was approved a while ago that kind of lays out the way it was originally designed and if you looked at that map I don't think I had time to look at that there's a map on page 19 that kind of gives you a schematic of what the warehouse would look like and as you guys can see it's like 80 or 85% on the low pacon side of the line there was like a small corner of the property and some related improvements over on our side ofine so there really was not ever and I kept saying this in my report there was never never really a monster impact on our side but it is a little bit of a rable yeah this is the line so there's like this tiny little I guess you'd say the really the the easterly or Souther southeasterly part of the warehouse comes over our side line there's a little bit of infrastructure but if you see most of our side's green it's all buff so that's what was proposed that was what was before the highlands Council for Highlands sen vation um we at some point opted out of that process they like we would like to perhaps can ask us to reconsider and opt back in the second permutation if you don't want that that we would get some tax out of that not a lot but we get some and again ratables you know taxes are a good thing you know especially when your your guys' bills and stuff but if we don't then they have to stay on that order if you don't have that in the some representatives from Polo are here in the audience if would like to hear from them I spoke to them briefly because I was early um and they were so we're talking before the meeting but if you don't want that little piece on our side they they're okay with moving the whole thing to their side and they would either deed restrict this or donate it or whatever but and again you can do that if you'd like but might might and again it will shrink the warehouse a little bit probably when they squeeze it but they can shift it a little bit that way and I think but as the chief and I were talking as as the mayor and I were talking I don't know if that makes much sense to you guys because all you're doing is basically eliminating the ability to get any tax revenue whatsoever from a project that's going to happen anyway and when you look at that did you see that page John my thing is again but that's up to you guys I told you before that you know on C property no Warehouse I mean that's that's to me personally just because look at a road going in that's going on the side of all residents and that's the access road of of you know one of them going in and so yes it's on our side but I said they want to restructure this and they want to uh redesign it where it's all on lowack property and then for us to get back on it and they're going to go to donate land to us I'm I'm willing to consider that because again that's rather just restri we don't want I don't think we want the donations I mean if it's down the road if they decide to put something else on there a different Council in 10 years well no no they would e restrict get to permanent open space rather than us getting a d cuz I don't know that we want the d John cuz I don't want have to build another something back there you know some point okay they restrict unrestricted that at that's long as buffer if you guys just for the record if you want we could just have these guys p po you like to come on up and my opinion based on the finances and everything else we have in the township um look I understand completely that the warehouse is a controversial matter no matter what right I and I'm not saying I'm in disagreements with you but I also know the finances of this Township I know what we need in order for us to succeed we don't have a lot of buildable areas in this town and if we can take a 15 15% rable and that warehouse is going in anyway that warehouse is going to be there with or without or taking the 24 Acres with the US getting 15% that warehouse will be there 100% with or without pacon Township our residents are still going to see what they don't want to see anyway the road yeah I I get that and it's going to be a little bit closer but if that's the if that is in my opinion if that is the catchall on why we wouldn't take a 15% rateable why don't we go back to them and say how else can you do this instead cuz if we if we take that land that land that they want to give us is nothing but a sinkhole headen we have there's I was just up there not what 3 weeks ago there's multiple sink holes in that area and why they buing no I'm talking the land they want to give us yeah like that's on the edge of the property towards the residence of pakon it is sinkhole there was there's a massive sinkhole up there and where we really want that well I mean I'd rather dect it and then just where it's just land and I'm just I'm just giving you guys fair warning on that too hypothetically how much money are you talking about if we choose to go with this how much revenue you think the council would get a realistic big the square footage of the property is what of the proposed Warehouse is what guys you know about how many square fet with Warehouse would be on yeah about 100,000 it's 100,000 ft Warehouse right so decent chunk of change it's a decent chunk of change for 15% I'd like to know what that is I can get that from 20,000 is it 100,000 I I we you know it's 20,000 I say no you know but if it's something substantial right so why don't we before we make a decision why don't we get our tax assessor to look at what that square footage would be and what the assessed value could potentially be towards the township okay just because why why I I just don't want to see us say absolutely not unless we have figures in front of us can we do it next meeting then yeah yeah yeah yeah well we we won't make a decision without a food counsel I won't vote on with just three three anyway so we only have three guys tonight but listen um and you got we're in communication anyway either R Doug or Brian whoever is going to do it um actually Jim Kyle probably already has these numbers well let's get let us get some figures and work with our assessor and then at the next meeting hopefully we'll have all five people and I think what what you hear our discussion is do we rever all the way back to the plan you guys initially had which would obviously be fine for you guys or do we go with the John John perut permutation take a d restriction and let you move it all the other side and what was the what is John what was the issue with the roadway again if you look on the it's coming down our side right going Bliss well the main Road's over here on here Chief you see I looks like the main road is on the Pack Hunt side then there's this ancillary probably for for safety with the fire equipment they have what's that road that de ends in on by Bliss but I don't see it going anywhere here I don't know this is the mall property so so we taking out the main stoplight entrance then no no they would they have an access you have access cubes the cubes right yeah they're going through the cubes there no no new access I mean they're coming back to thing one of these entrances has to be the truck entrance one of them has to probably be the employee entrance most of them like so I mean I understand they have to have their Loop there probably for for you know the way it needs to be WR drawn up but if this is something that both sides are willing and want there's got to be something be to move well I think we ought to we're going to T it we ought to let put that agenda outly let people know get some numbers on that's what I'm wondering do we have to do let them know because we firmly said we're not for this I mean we need to I was going to say we we could send out a little notice to everybody within 200 ft on our own initiative and just say hey guys we're going to discuss this at the June meeting and you know and see if the if the public get any input come on out we can do that if you want you know what that's going to entail people from people don't like warehous no no I'm not talking about the public notice that was required by the high C I'm just talking about the traditional notice with 200 ft that you do the land use application which would just be on our side of the line only as a courtesy saying hey guys we're going to take another look at this if you want to come come you know what I mean that would be an easy thing to do there's only whatever it is in Parks side 10 15 people I don't know 20 question I have gentlemen what what route are you looking for as far as the property taxes are you looking for a pilot on this property or no that's the conversation that's been put back on for so while that's something else we got just I don't know if it makes a big difference on our side because again we're not a lot of it and I don't see any reason why you can't do a pilot on one side of line traditional on the other it would it would it would be tax separately yeah tax separately anyhow separate tax bills so you know mayor my thought is again it's not a lot it is something though and as the chief said and he's saying this with your with his director hat with the finance hat but it it's it's something Jen Jen can easy rattle off what 100,000 square ft as a readable be I'm sure I should have asked her today cuz we talked about it and I I just SP to her the other day but I can eat text her I text her now without on my phone so we're going to wait till the June meeting guys I hope that doesn't mess you up too much but we want to make sure there people here anyway which is fair and just record to be clear you were prepared to ask for tonight that you know you know for the reauthorization of this process to go back to the islands we're happy to derestrict the property give the property to the township uh preserve whatever they you whatever you guys want so that nothing's built there we have an intent to come back here to ask to continue to develop that property that's the direction that's different but we would be fine with just proceeding with our Highlands application with the pack on which is where we are now right and not really doing anything than this property and I think what we're saying from a financial statement we may not want to cut our nose off despite our face so before we make that decisions let's get all five here come back in June and we'll we'll go one of those two directions I would say there's a consensus that if you're going to move all to that side obviously that's fine with a de restriction I would think we can't control that anyway that'd be fine but maybe we can maybe there's also a shop where go back to where you had it and not putting the car before the horse but one of the one of the hurdles for us with advancing the application of the Highlands is whether or not po staying on or not staying on and so the decision is either po stays on and allows the original plan or po stays on and says we don't want anything developed there either either situation where for us quite frankly or preference to do not to do anything just because it's cleaner to develop simply than the back on but having the reauthorization to allow us to proceed to the highlands okay yeah and but but is that something that you guys are still open to developing with us or not because if you guys come back why would we waste our time if you guys are already have it set to where you're just doing low Pat now and you just need us to say here we de State I think what he was trying to say is anyone of the reauthorization tonight is that correct yes and and Par up until 5 minutes ago I thought that there was you know nothing was happening here which we were fine with we accepted that we were prepared to just say well you know won't do anything with the property we that clear we're happy with that we just want to proceed with what we have in laac on and we need the authorization to go back to the Highland well that's your call like I said if we have a full Council next month or we will have a full Council I'll make sure it is we can give you a decision then but tonight we're just three of us I'm not going to make that call I can almost tell you I think for the three minutes here probably would be no [Music] [Applause] restriction no no for the development of the 15% oh yeah deed restriction and for if they would move forward deed restrict for that just do it are you definitely do you want to hear what the numbers are I mean I don't know my my sense of Steve was he was he was he would be a no listen I I just have to tell I have to tell you you're giving away money my part of the fin I understand the whole money giveway but is it again for the next 40 years where you know someone has to deal with that road within yard from I can't tell do my job Kevin snd has come up to me and said about quality of life over Revenue that's his famous saying you know where's the quality of life say about toity um you know they're going to build the warehouse anyway so if they destrict it in that area from where hat is and that is all green land and then they move it over or redesign it it's all lat I'm fine with that said that allows them I understand the money part and again what is that money part is it you know again 20,000 is it 60,000 I don't know but again with Gata farms and the mall and all these other things that we're doing I mean is this little chunk going to make our break our T I mean I mean is it I mean is it I mean you have the number i' i' be able to make a decision honestly with hearing what you guys are saying I would just say do the deed restriction and allow them to move forward and then we don't have to come back that's what I'm and don't even worry about the numbers I don't know where you're I think Steve's probably based upon his previous comments I don't think he cares about this I don't think you're going to get a vote on either all right why don't we Bas our further discussion is and they their gentleman's comments that they're happy just to move it all to L Pac on side and do restricted somebody wants to make a motion to uh reactivate our our participation with the highlands Center designation process conditioned Upon Our side of the of the boundary being D restricted to no development you're okay with somebody want to make that motion then they get what they want now and we get a property that's not going to be develop just one comment it's the Redevelopment Center yeah uh we have to change rment that's right it's not center it's Redevelopment Highland Redevelopment designation correct that would be the motion I I just don't feel I'm informed enough I understand Scott's concerned and if it's significant what that 15% count you I'd like to know yeah I mean honestly I don't think it's going to be a maple break but any money counts but that's just me talking finan I that mean you know you look at those kids people on Parks side you know that told them they were you know adamant that that didn't want but they're getting a warehouse and then now you're talking you know on p on lowack property we did our job we we kicked it off of and so I said at that point you know that now is a you know a um uh what call it green land and or you know de restriction where there's no GRE Acres yeah well not they're going to be in charge of the D we have about not be our property they're in charge of the D well we'll review make could it still be formed well John why don't why don't you just make the motion to to uh reauthorize lifel participation with the highlands Redevelopment designation process contingent account our side line being restricted to no perfect I make that motion okay Gray yes still Yes slack we let the Highland Council now we back in the game didn't vote oh you didn't vote yet sorry not yet I'm thinking oh you got two yeses already right yes I'm going to abstain the still carries correct y goodby man okay so we we let the High Council know we're we're back in the game on with that with that subject to that condition okay that project is going to be moved over that long you're welcome guys have a good night uh beyond that on my Atty report I'm that's um couple tax appeals going but again there is one with the cues but that's kind of on hold with the whole pile analysis but we may be proceeding there at some point but right now we're just trying to sh water spend zero money there I think there's there's a couple others that I think Jen's expecting those to be resolved um our again just as a reminder that you guys all know one of the problems we're having with the commercial tax appeals is is our deteriorating ratio so even though even when agend assessment is accurate if our ratio is only at 70% of equalized assess value you got to take her assessment and multiply by 130% which is you know so we lose so that going to be an important process down I think you already authorized way to start digitizing our tax M that's the first step that's the first step so we're we're probably 22 years probably from going out the bed how how close can we go to start recessing everybody when can we start doing that but I mean that Wayne's got to finish that digitation John and that has to go provision of Taxation to be approved my my experience has been they never approve it first of all in the first shot they always have two years that'll take a year a year to get approved from division so say Wayne's done this year with that that's that's there's a decent amount of work with that that he's got then once we send it down to Trenton that'll be another year that's I'm saying we'll probably be in a position to go you can't go out the bit without those those plans being Maps being approved requisite you cannot do it not allowed to do so fig two years and the one thing that we have to be very very careful with is pilot programs with being going for a reeval because if we agree to numbers that you know are not the best you do the reevaluation the land value now goes up but so does the land value credit for the pilot program which drops the pilot program money on what we potentially would be getting so we have to tread carefully on anything we agree to on Pilots um and work with the pilot attorney and J and make sure it's right before we say yes to anything now here's my question Scott Orem to is with the mall the CES we're doing a pilot program now maybe not I'm saying I mean at this point is it worth even going through that pil now because they're they're not giving us any type of leeway if we pull out and go regular taxes on that is that beneficial to us right now as opposed to playing this back and forth game and then we're going to reassess in one two years and then we're going to lose money anyway saying so why can't we pull out that pilot and just go back to regular well we hav gotten all we're doing right can we can we just just say p say we're not going to worry about we're kind of there we're close to that we basically actually Jeff wisk our the Development Council gave gave them you know we completely rejected what they initially proposed and we've never really gotten the second proposal and we finally I you know talked to Jen talk to Jeff we we kind of Jeff basically did their job and laid out like a minimum possible acceptable scenario and sent that to them just within that last probably 48 hours and basically told them guys if you aren't at this level or higher let's just stop and that's over but okay they go at that level if we get to a level what's the level that we told them we would be at we know or is that we haven't given them a definite number it's really their job but they came let me put this way they they came back with a pilot that contemplated Jen's assessment right now in the land only was 13 million MH they came back with a pilot to Pro proposed a reduction of 4 million and and a revenue share of% Reven both of those are ridiculous we if we the scenario we ran we said okay let's say we gave you there is a scenario where modest property reduction could make sense because of the credits Etc so and I talk we talk let's say we gave him something modest not to four but maybe 13 to 10 but then increase the the revenue share from 10 to 15 that number gets you towards the minimal range of that might be something you guys looked at seriously but there but that is so far removed from what they offered I I said I said I I would just keep say look here's this would be something that we might be willing to talk to the council about if you guys aren't here or hire let's just forget so we're kind of where you're saying yeah I I just just to me that right now you I'm just worri about we get to that number and then we have the reassessment the risk is the only risk you got train was that at some point they they they say well you know what um we can't build it on a traditional tax structure but that's not really our problem then we get a land only tax and when we get the reassessment that number is going to go it's already got approval so assess it's going to be assessed as approved land and we'll just let it sit there I I I think one of their problems is John is they they bought it they they overpaid for it PR significant in my opinion they paid almost they paid 38 $39 million for that almost and you know that's they're trying to make that up really in a pile on our back we're not going to allow so we don't worry that's why you're not even seeing it I I just briefly mentioned it in case you were wondering like you're not hearing it then because we're not here anything worth talking about and Chief's been consistent that go too one other comment I just Mak as far as the chief's comment one one good thing that that land credit does not apply to a residential pilot so you don't have to that that L because that's a residential only project that land credit only applies in commercial context so the Lin project do not have to wor the re's not going to was it you that told me Lin had interest in Eis track now maybe heard that you I knew somebody said something their engineer their engineer was uh now talking uh when they were doing the water saying yeah if these fill up we're going for eight more down below I mean originally Woodmont had come to us with some kind of plan years and years ago that contemplated wow something down like that down around the corner down well where eii wanted to go like instead of eii going in with their single family talking about doing what they're doing that down below down like where it comes to Corner theber again that where it comes to like a triangle yeah I did hear from the chief actually less enough com on I haven't heard anything from Lin but I understand they may have tentatively resolved their their water and sewer issue with Alpha um as you guys know at one point they were asking you know if there's anything we can do to help them and said No at this point but if they come with the ass they come but we'll be able B you know but that's good though that lock moving for again that Pilot's not affected by any Ty real estate P that was it for me sorry thank you but we still have not heard about um Alpha has never come back to us about the sewer agreement with with the flow that the only thing they've settled is the Marin part Marin that kind of dropped off that kind of dropped off the map when their mayor lost the election all a sudden you hear nothing I don't think they have a fight in it I I I think the flow is we've talked is probably in their favor but with that being said they've got a couple commercial projects that want will serve that we won't issue until we way says we don't have any taxi so we can't do that well we might have conveyance capaity we we have to be careful I when he knows there's no will seres going until they s the table with us right for their well that's why I also their warehous I also think one of the wareh they're redirecting up to that pump station not anym well now they're not that's why they're on Wayne again to come back to us CU they're not doing that okay I not heard that just told me that day the one off of Seventh Avenue they're not going to go down I thought that's why Wayne told me that's why they're on him again to get the whe serves because it now turned and it's coming back they want to go through all yeah because they probably don't want to pay a fair share of the $500,000 pump upgrade probably not and that was the first thing I brought to attention that way that that should get offet as should the development that they're proposing behind the alpha Family Diner that they own the land Alpha does and they want to sell it to a building right well that that's it's possible L is built in offsets for sub and that's what I probably all right moving on the engineers report Wayne gave us a report uh everybody anybody have any questions on Wayne's report how are they done with P Pinterest Point all done every their final payment everything's done and Mr uh stickle was satisfied good they did a little extra for and it was within the the means where really no change orders were needed they just did it and he was happy good good good but I could keep my word to Mr Stile he seems like a nice oh was nice to have a good contractor they seem to be pretty Sol for that speaking of contractors have they come back with a uh bid to work at Vaneli park for us or no no because they were waiting on their second payment before they would provide it so but I did that right after our last meeting so I I'm we're just waiting on them all right so if they don't get back to us by next meeting we still do have a bitter correct for all right I want to I want to move that forward next meeting either one way or another that needs to get done this year all right Council reports I'll start with uh F let me just pull that up you're so technically Advanced these days um last meeting I said I hadn't gotten the health department quarterly report um but I did receive one and that I received that after I was getting ready to come to the meeting so I want the health department to look bad they did send it to me and I think Wanda forwarded it all to you mhm you all got it um today I I messaged with Chris cot regarding the railroad crossing on River Road for the improvements where the accidents to keep happening and he reported this quote okay so it has passed environment review we are waiting for the do to come up with a detour plan when the work is taking place apparently that is the current hold up were you consult on this detour plan at all should you have been I mean if do is involved they usually do it themselves and then we usually have a construction meeting prior with their plans to go over it to make sure that it works for us but I have not been should you have been I don't know what phase they're at of planning it normally I'm in it towards the end that that's Norm when it comes to dot they really tell you how it's going to be and they they tell the contractor this is what you have to have this is the traffic control you have to have and you know we can we can always go up there uh the the chief has the authority to go up and say no we're not doing that we're doing this but it's only if I find it to be a safety hazard I okay School Bus could through their Chief or no yeah we have to reroute it they they rerouted for pin Point June then get unless do sum right no that won't be so bad as before because it go up to Winter's Creek Road M and now Pinterest is open so it's okay uh Shiner yard sale was highly successful for a one day sale we made over $1,300 thanks to people donating things like my count fellow councilman thank you for your donations and I want to say compliments to the road department that clean up day the following weekend was amazing so great just in and out [Music] um what was interesting about that shimer yard sale was the contacts that we made with residents not only in this panta but in the surrounding area they're very interested in what's going to be happening with shimer school they're really excited about shimer Mansion becoming a cultural center but I also had um inquiries about fora farm and the stone Farmhouse ever since it was all the foliage was removed you not can see it from the road there are people that are very interested in seeing that house Preserve so um regarding that um John Harvey GRE developers we had um talked with them about giving the land that's marked out on the lus board map to are his Society I remember back in the winter you had met with them MH and they with you and John Harvey probably he was one of them yeah and they told you the place was a wreck he'll be yeah yeah uh so I I just I just feel that um you were not an informed person because you're not part of the historic commission you don't know about the efforts that we've been making and the long history we had with that property with the previous devel and I feel that it would probably be a best practice if we had meetings with that developer there is a representative from the historic Commission because we had Zoom meetings with David Greek who told us big big what can we turn the born and two how about the the house it was all of this Cur leading stuff for the property and then you meet with them and it's like and I feel if maybe a historic commission person or Society person had been there we could said wait a minute Greek wasn't there I don't believe that maybe I did circulate a draft the hold harmless identification if you guys wanted to go in and take a look did we ever do that so here's the latest proposal they will give us unlimited access to the property and not you know but they're going to want that identification sign for anybody yeah and we can do the state stabilization work for them even though they own it and then maybe next year they'll give us that property I had conversations with Kevin and other luse board members and they had no problem if that piece was cut out forget the floor area ratio that um GRE was telling me Oh well you know we can't cut that out because FL said no it's approved it doesn't matter and so what they want us to do is clean it up form stabilize it form and maybe next year don't give it to us I was born at night but it wasn't last night that's I didn't just fall I hope nobody entertained that idea right right I thought we were eluant to take it at all because it isn't mess well us as a Township we don't want it but the Historic Society with ingred I was all for letting them you know go through us to them no problem but now now they they're reene Rene no they're not no no no Township Commission like we did with the fine Farm we the the Solar Company gave us that they gave us money to help with right well okay all right well that would be doable but the thing I'd say is that we would we would be best for us to be lary which I would still do but it doesn't sound like Greek wants to they don't want to they don't want to do that maybe next year they'll get it to but they don't want to do the work they don't want to do the work so if I agree can't do the work without having the property first that'd be stupid well that's what they want us to do they want our lawyer to draw up an agreement that we can go on there and fix it all up for them and then maybe next year they'll get it to us yeah no that does the store Society want it we want you want we want it and we want to do what we did with the F form do you guys want me to ask Mark be if they're willing to carve it out and give it to us which a cond once we get well that's not a sub we're exemp so we could card it out take a deed and turn around and give it to you that's what I said before yes but but do you want it yes yeah but the problem is is that they don't want it unless it's stabilize well that's where I'm trying to get to are you guys we want it right but you're saying you want them to stabilize it first before you take it we want them to be stabilizing it now right that's what I'm saying they're not even doing that but the sooner we can take ownership of it we'll do this we'll do the work but um so you want to answer current condition we got them do more and we also want money from them like how much 100,000 would be nice that's what we did with the Sol Farm we got 100,000 help to stabilize the property do Wells you guys come to work I mean we kind of before that request is not coming from the township C just make sure that make that clear that's got nothing to do with us I would say that the historical society would take it off their hands and appreciating that it may be millions of dollars to stabilize it but with a donation of 100K they'll take it off your hands as is Conduit it through the township so that you know that takes care of all that I guess my only question is would we need to would they need to get a variance no we're exempt from something no because they already have the F thing is done so now if we decide to let them C off a couple AC and give it to us then that's that's okay that was my question yeah is that would change the it would theoretically that couple acres slightly changes the F Rao but they they improv right and I as I said my my suspicion was there would be palatability amongst the land use for it's only a couple acres yeah the barn in the house and a couple two ACR or something m board members I talked they thought it was a great idea and that it was a m I'm talking to him anyway about the r issue and everything so I'll just find out there I'll yeah but in the future if there's any more meetings we're they going to deny the kind of tone that they took with us before approvals I think we ought to have a representative from the commission I just think it would be appropriate cuz we have the back I'm not having any means with anybody approve done that's all I have on my bra so can I speak a little bit on this absolutely I'm not trying to be Debbie down right tell you but you always are I have to be um but so there is a million moving parts to this Greek development right there is the Historic Society is asking what they want to ask for the fire department wants to ask what they want to ask for right where do we stand with this stuff because in the end is this what everybody wants does everybody want any specific donation to go to what has been discussed already CU I don't think that's ever really been talked about you mean ACC accumulative yeah like each person has their own beliefs and agenda and and so on and so forth and but as a whole you guys have never sat and discussed where we really want to go with it because now if this is okay well what does that take from but I also I also think though we have to look at it I I agree with with what you're saying but in I don't care end of story I don't big picture this also helps them out right this gets aead this takes away a headache for them you know it cost them more than 100 Grand to demolish I guarantee you that and not for nothing if if the Historic Society wanted to they could make a big stink about promises made promises not kept you know by by developers and start you know and it's it would just be a a pain in the ass factor for them right so it's probably easier for them to say you know what we wanted we we were looking at this we had all good faith however we bit off more than we can shoot we can give it to you here's 100K take I I agree with you in total in totality we have to look at you know what what we're looking for the fire Tru is another thing again they volunteered that that was not ask from the township is illegal to do that so they put that Mark P put that on the table yeah but that was not with Greek I appreciate that but I think you also said and and what the point I'm trying to get to is it helps them from an insurance perspective right because of the height of their building we don't have the ladder truck there's a whole thing about Mutual Aid and you know there's there's no guarantee that it's going to get here in time so that their insurance they would have they would benefit from that and that's where again you think of the big picture it's not just the township saying you know give me money here give me money here it's working collectively to say for the greater good of both of our organizations you know what can we do how can we work together but I do appreciate what you're saying is it's it's not Death By A Thousand Cuts but you know there's a little piece here a little bit there we need a master plan approach to do this well like from the beginning of this development right the pie is only so big big and there's only so many slices that's going to come out and I know what Chief's alluded to is that if we want money for things that Township needs other than a fire truck or preser in historic buildings that's all going to get reduced as these other things are paid out of the pie to put it in PL well don't don't forget the $2.5 million affordable housing development fee which still probably hadn't really found well that that's that's a given that that can't go anywhere that's that they have to do that but anything over and above that is all volunteer on their side like I said the pie is only so big and what the chief is trying to say you can only cut that pie so many times so what other pieces of the pie are there well we don't really know you know I mean like I know what I I mean I'll be honest I know what the town needs like if they're going to if they're going to be willing to donate we we have a project right now that's already going on the sports fields that um for the community that we have we don't have enough money for it we just don't to in order to do it it's 1.1 million we have 800,000 860,000 you're so you're going to put money into that but then might not have enough to finish it on like that so those are like examples of what I'm saying like who's to say that they wouldn't donate to the W or you know we need dump trucks we you know we need another dump truck that they one over there that the floors is falling out of you know I mean yes things can be refurbished and stuff like that but the totality of it from the beginning of the conception of this development there's been multiple groups that have talked to the developers to try to get what their agenda is and at no time has the mayor and Council came and said well wait wait wait hold on what do we want you and I've had conversations right but I'm saying as a whole as a it's never been so I I personally believe it should just be everybody on the same page and if you guys are fine with the Historic Society getting asking for a donation and the and the fire and the fire department asking for a donation then that's where we need to put our put it put it I guess I guess to be fair we need to spread the wealth there's more than one there's more than one I don't disagree yeah well that no but at the end of the day we've got multiple projects that are about to sprout in the town right at different stages of development right and so it's not to say that you know there couldn't be different contributions coming from different for these these individual projects so you know I think we would need to look at maybe there's a master list of items where we think and what may be appropriate for lin to to have some some skin in the game or or the cubes or whomever right just had to pay well we also we've got pilot money right isn't pilot money coming in and that's up for our own that's up for us to determine where that's going to go so there's what I'm getting at is there's more than one pot here and you know we can have a wish list that's covered by multiple pots and I agree with you we should have uh you know a strategy around what that looks like and I think at first it probably starts off with with a master needs list or request list and then go from there but there are some there are some unique aspects to this one nobody else has got gono forms born on it right there's nobody else in any project in the world that has that I'm not arguing that at all right I I'm just saying as the guy sitting over here that has to go through the books and make sure we know what we need we I think we just have to prioritize it on all of our projects coming because when when we're here at our meetings we talk about when we got the cubes coming in we got Greek coming in we got Lin we got this but we never discuss what our plans are with that you know what I mean like we we've never discussed and sat down of like oh well Lin's going to give us this much on a pilot you know I mean how much are we going to put towards the tax base so that we don't have a huge increase how much are we willing to put in kitties where uh if we have a winter storm and we need extra salt or we we have a disaster we have money that we cuz right now we don't have those Nest dayss like so these there's a lot of things that have to be thought about with all these potential all the potential funds coming in of what we're exactly doing with that that's what that's what I think I mean to it I I'm not saying for Gman itself that the Historic Society that's not a good idea I'm just saying we've talked about multip multiple things just for gan and I don't we don't even know what they're willing to give I would say they're willing to give probably very little by the time you get done with the the do the cost for the the improvements in the dot right away that whole intersection have to be signalized they have a lot of work they're going to be required to do as I understand it out at the 12222 intersection um yeah we're you're right we we have lots of wish lists but that's exactly what they are they're wish lists and you know I I don't know where willing to give you 10 cents with the buildings like you know they have a very expensive project to build out and they're going to be writing Us in very big checks that's why I mentioned that you know2 plus million affordable housing development fee on top of all the construction costs on top of bonding you know I you know that project has to be economically viable I don't think they're they're thinking of giving us an extra million dollars for a fire track or anything else like that anything they give us is going to be voluntary as you guys have said and it's going to be well the proposal for the fire truck as I understand it was a dollar per square foot out and that would come off the thing so you know frankly whoever the tenant is the first month rent that they're that's free and clear right but there's an example right of what you just said a dollar square foot is what we've heard at these meetings before okay but we don't have anything there's nothing on paper no you know what I mean or like lkin when they came in originally we like yep half a million for the Redevelopment fee we ended up with 217 you know what I mean so it seems like the developers always start off at these huge numbers to make it seem for us like oh here it comes and then when it comes down to it like like Lin went from a half a million to two to not even half of it less than half of it then how do you put him down to get the number fixed that's see Lin was Redevelopment and that that that number was negotiated end up going back down that Chief is right but that number we're allowed to negotiate that the Redevelopment that is a contract negotiation that number is in our sign r that that's Ro and we and we got the first P anything with Greek Greek is just a a completely Mis land use law traditional site plan John under that law they they need give us nothing beyond their approval so again they they can make lots of promises they can make themselves look good at the end of the day maybe they do maybe they don't they don't um you know and but the chief is right I mean to the extent they do give if we say hey we'll take this as a conduit can you also give a check for 100 grand that's definitely coming off their their gross number so the chief is right the circle gets 100 it's 100 less they're going to give us something else that's for sure because if they give us anything it's going to be a finite number they might have in their mind okay Buck square foot for this little bit for this and then we're done so it would be a good idea before we say hey give the Historical Society 100 in addition to the deed make sure that we don't want to say oh well they can have sorry Scott makes a good point because you know in the past we've you know had develop with we had you know money and went to like playground equipment that you know sometime being Ed so what now's the time to figure out what is going to be we need for the town for the next 10 15 years that is going to benefit most of the people and what this town needs and I think that has to have that vision of on the plan so why don't we set an action item for next meeting Scott to you to come you collect the master wish list from everybody anybody on this this Council or any of the commissions that has you know requests to just sort of get that fol into you I would also like to see from the the pilots the potential income the revenue stream associated with that um and then I think we can start to to put together a master plan especially if some of that stuff is going to be outside the pilots such as donations right and if we're going to to request that and then I think that gives us a little bit of a better glimpse of the big picture but that's all I'm talking about is just to be able to sit back and look at what we have first before we make decisions on one where we're going with what we have because we don't even have it yet but when we do have it where are we going to go with itting you I mean and then what happens to if the what if the hisor Society requests this and they say no the donation I'm saying that's why I just asked do you want it regardless of the nation so I guess we'll cross that bridge I listen I think we're kind of beat this dead horse and you're right we should kind of start developing some long-term thinking and CH so been I think really work in that direction for the last couple years anyway I'm just going to reach out to p and say he you have an interest I'm you I mean not going to further if he says he does I'm going to come back to you guys and say this is what they said says if they say no then we talk that's that's all right that's it all right Kevin okay um Court reports for the month of April um for green witch we had a total number of traffic charges added was 247 traffic charges disposed was 26 60 criminal charges added to 29 disos 48 the municipal deposit for Green Court was9 motion okay yeah resol where did they put it39 I'd also like to add that that's the first time um we've had a larger Municipal deposit than than green so I don't know their volume has been training higher than that so it dropped in April um ours actually almost double what it was last month so the uh total year to date for green Wich is $ 29,5 18987 and for pro at it's [Music] $1,469 um Chief do you know if we got the true up from Green Wich from last year yet yet no they didn't pass their budget yet okay but everything's with the Auditors they know what we're getting so that they're okay with that they can um anticipate it okay um other than that there has not been a land use board meeting since our last one um we did talk at our last council meeting about shackle Town Road um and there was some questions around um the public portion of that road and if we wanted to uh uh take that did anyone have any followup on that I don't remember who was supposed to be apologies was that get shot town it's after once you get certain way up private um we had a gentleman that came in that lived on the section uh that was private and um was that maybe going to get to I think you were all right I I think I Kevin have a b recollection discussion that's in case I did not do that I'll know to okay Point check so what are you trying to take over that part well basically it's it's been treated as a public road for probably longer than you've been Al right Shack to yes so uh you know rep plow it we take care of the maintenance we do everything on it and so the question is should the township just pick it up officially or um leave it private part of the reason this came up is the resident who was trying to build the Landy for because it's private had additional Hoops that he had a jump through which he was not uh thrilled about and his neighbors could not understand why the road and they all gave testimony it's been plowed for 60 years and then the township maintains it so there was just this question on why we would just adopt it I guess we're an adopt the move you know hey let move one street over hey we put more money in that than they did the challenge with this is John is that this is the same road and it goes up and 34 his public it's poac and then he goes the rest is private so it's not a matter of a private complete private Ro like you know some some of us have the opportunity yeah who uh that's I think where we're going to start Kevin he had ni who was that individual B you are the Christopher with a [Music] K that would be a place to start with his go backwards from there okay bird was see so John what happens is he need a Vari proper public Street and so you want to Dot from his part on I thought sh was a public it is until the last two houses well there's more than that cuz there's three or two or three up in the woods Eddie Eddie Alon that's still priv up there but we don't go up that but if you do take it over then you have to make the improvements in we already are that's well that was my question so the road has been maintained by the township for decades is it PID yeah that's what I'm saying like I mean the same thing like they they they plow our road they maintain it so watch for your go I know I've been waiting for years now well like I said we we that I mean we put everything to it's all paid drained all that kind of stuff it's really now just it's not there's no cers anymore it's a it's a fully paved twice over Road that's in very good shape you know and people are just sick of not having it town they miss it but I mean like I said if we're looking I me Ser I think even if goes up and looks at both of them and sees them then sees that the fact that you know the town taking over or there's really no maintenance really to do they're doing what they're doing anyway there's nothing there's nothing to pave anymore there's nothing to you guys put milk stuff right everything yeah and I think over the last 20 years they I think they 110,000 15,000 they I don't know if that's the case on anyway what are you Silver Hill Silver Hill yeah the uh in reference to court yeah uh June 1st starts the shared service below pacon um i s you'll see there's a resolution for the salary resolution for the new um uh Court Administrator Kristen um I sat with her uh we negotiated the terms of her employment here um she was satisfied with it um it meet she it meets within our scope of where we're at um so the road department is going to be moving the stuff over uh next week and both I talked to both judges and they're ready to go so they're moving the files over yes we have space for those files yes unfortunately the mayor lost his office okay but yeah we moved to where the mayor's office was took that over for the court storage room um cuz it has to be locked as well um and that has a separate key fob to it so let me anticipate a question that may come from Council women gray M are they paying for storage no I mean they're just paying the to Total salary yeah AOC makes it mandatory that we have to bring their files over right on premises right on premises yeah yeah but they're already um when I when I met with Kristen uh they've already purged as much as they could Purge like time wise so it's nothing that's old okay yeah but everything will fit in that room take my office I'll tell you I thought you approved it that's okay the lawyers use our our little confence from it's hijacked I was advised you approve that just take my name tag on that what do you have for us tonight uh well they finally after what 5 years they started the fields back there um so they staking everything out um starting to get I guess some soil sample Scot just to make sure what they got to move um and then I guess last meeting SC we talked about possibly the billion right there by school um and seeing that would be the next part of of of the the deal so we can start to get things up there get it you know where people can rent out Pavilion um and then start to do that so it's how they make it was only there like last week or since well we have one we already had one incident here where a delivery truck utilized the access road huh the gravel road yeah yeah and got they put a fence right put a fence in there I made after that I made them put a fence up so that when they leave for the day so the they got stuck they ran over the drainage pipe they put in to go to the that they that they just installed well then that guy got stuck so he called his buddy who came up with another truck and got stuck and they were both flatbed trucks stuck and spinning up in the mud that they they were all way up top so wait a second did they enter from under the overpass yeah and they they went all the way up all the way up and they weren't even they had delivery they thought they were going to the right Road it's not address it wasn't even for that property no oh dear so in other words they were lost got stuck and then ruined why you go down gra room right yep so I do know the County engineer called the other day uh complaining that we created a new road Let's ignore him like he ignores us I did I I he called me and I to do not disturb button on yeah is it 519 state County no County so I did talk to the county road department advise them what we're doing because they did put new gravel in and uh and so he was fine with it um I guess somebody made a complaint and the engineer called the school demanding to know everything and Dian Andre called me and said I said yeah F him to me and they haven't gotten treat him the same way he treats us exactly I already have so um but I also got a a message the other day I'm trying to cut engineering cost down a little bit so they wanted the engineers to meet them at the seed plan in New Brunswick to go over what grass seed the plan I refuse to authorize that payment I said I'll go how I mean really I can Google that why can't you do that online that's so say but they they have a they wanted somebody to go down and they talk about it I'm like you're I'm not we're not paying the engineer to drive all the way down down there and then do a report give it back to us and then we get thousands of dollars a samples or something yeah yeah so I I Deni that um we found an architect to uh and I talked to the architect to provide us with free uh drawings and materialists for the Pavilion the uh concession stand and the um announcers um so I'm already in the works with that uh I spoke with the road department about uh cutting out a parking lot once that's done uh and at least putting in a gravel parking lot uh the wck dads are going to be going up and clearing out the trees um we have some guys that have construction companies so we're going to be going out and clearing the tree line so that it saves a cost on the town as well um and you know the Project's going going well you got to se plan yet no that they I just got that email yesterday yeah a little hybrid Kentucky Blue Grass I I don't know I guess I'm going to find out yeah I have no idea announcers is there a Snack Shack too yep the that's the concession stand bathrooms uh no we probably just do the porta potty bathrooms are an issue because they get vandalize a lot and um they get dirty like place I even they brick you go in there they're just disgusting so I mean I think for amount of games are going to be there a year like five or six that are going seven eight going to be a year I think we get away the porter Johns and then when we have an event we can always just you know get there I think it's just just to me it's undo expense that any park even alha that park there there's disc and will there be running water they're going to do uh water and um we're waiting on the quotes electric they're going to do conduit electric so like I said so it's uh so it's uh you know it's on its way and like I said one of those things where once we get started then we can start to you know what see about donations and things like that maybe get some stuff added that not going to be a town expense and um you know started getting people up there and as the more they see and more of a community Gathering we can uh do more to it but we're off to a good start yeah I drove up there the other Saturday or Sunday yeah back now Scott are they once the field is done so everything to the left are they even that still brush by the solar no by the solar what they going to do they cut that down oh no no yeah we're leaving that brush okay we're only going I only have plans I marked it out to only go up to where we have a sight distance to see the field when you pull up so you know where you're going you know I'm talking about where where the where the The Field's going to be M then to the left as you're going to the solar panels what's that going to be just brush fill in the tree line there's no Tree Line there you're talking to left of the field mhm not not the tree line from where the so the existing soccer fields are for the uh go through the tree line go through the tree line and go to your left bottom of the hill of the yeah that's going to stay the same that's so then because that was supposed to be phase two where they're going to be doing that as a you know a grass field just to practice them we don't that's not in phase one right exactly they're leaving that there right so so if we were to brush all getting how C got down correct yeah and and this for wreck that thing is that you know is that they need volunteers for that or yeah M take the kab over there with the grapp that gra you play some place I got the box plate on the back and you know be all set I got a skid steer I'm going to bring mine you know I got a uh a thing it's a log pull but it's you put it in and it's just down thing and you all the roots and all kinds of stuff oh yeah keep your phone I got one that does that too it's called caterpillar 951 rip anything out that that's what I think about around here a lot of people a lot of toys that they love to these so so um that's it um Scotty with the budget how we doing what are you looking into uh we were supposed to have it ready for tonight unfortunately um and was uh in the hospital for a couple weeks weeks yeah she okay in and out yeah yeah she's better now but she so she wasn't able to you know I didn't ask too much but I just knew she was there and I just wanted to make sure she was all right so I gave a little eay on that yeah no absolutely yeah absolutely we're still on target to for next month in June yeah she started working on it she just didn't have time to finish it last year last year we were still thring back the lers yes lers of the yeah yeah feeling the onion so that's good for me there all right thank you everybody saw uh Chief Rob's email as far as um today was officer PA's last employment day we had to send off I guess it went fairly well ke yeah we had a unbelievable bag Piper guy here today the honor guard is here it was really nice good good good Bobby Bobby's a good man he he missed yeah and with that being said um Scott had put a request in us as Council to look for a new hire correct correct to replace a body y so that's something we need to deal with tonight executive session Personnel yeah I need an ex anyway okay so we'll deal with that in executive and I was also asking if I could get a promotion that's one I want to discuss in executive okay so we'll have a short executive to deal with that other than that I don't have really anything other than just normal every day uh we talked pretty much about everything the one thing that was was U I wanted to talk about we already did with the pce behind them allall so we're good moving on to resolutions everybody take a look it looks like they're just tax redemptions set salary for our new court administrator so if we could take all those resolutions together there are six I'm moving forward mayor okay Gray yes Melvin yes stillo yes slack yes all right we have uh ordinance for we have to reintroduce this Kevin yeah we done all right so we're going to reintroduce ordinance 2402 uh to accept the streets known as a relocated portion of bliss Boulevard and Greenwood Street extension so that'll be on uh next month for uh adoption with public hearing can we move that or we have to move it forward second Melvin okay Gray yes Melvin yes stillo yes slack yes what we talked about is not this isn't going to affect the fact that we're no okay this actually be help well it would kind of thwart the whole mess because they wouldn't have any grounds anymore correct do anyway ordinances for second reading we have none we have motions we have a pile of motions so if everybody could take a look through them what's the RNC courses for now uh registered municipal clerk needed that accur yeah I have no idea what um can we just do the the the motion can we just uh for uh John wit the application just I didn't get to do the background today just approve it tomorrow if it's fine we'll just move it forward okay that's okay with everybody developers agreement with Greek Kev that's that's uh that's to establish their inspection escrow and their bonding requirements for the portion of that project that will be in our public rights away and that will the boning um round number is around a half million Bond part of which be has to be paid in cash by Statute the rest that propos a letter of credit or performance bond uh there's going to be a separate fairly significant bond that the dot s required there's a lot of work in the do right the way and we'll be getting a copy that okay we we don't want onsite improvements that we're not accepting so but Wayne looked at I looked at the Chiefs looked at it it's a standard form agreement that b for 4 A years and the bond amount is has been approved by Wayne based upon their cul okay as far as the one motion there we need a representative to the muskin Eon River Management Council I'm going to ask Tyler Greenfield so just pencil his name in uh as that point pending his acceptance if he doesn't take it then we'll have to go back to square one but I felt he was a good candidate for that and he joined you on the he on the environmental commission so with those notes uh can we what about what about AB uh for Paving and Le pick up are these bids that we put out MH they're not bids actual bids they're quot we were we got a lot of quotes and he's the lowest we we yeah we went through it and had a couple other companies and that we vetted it through that and the lead and the um lead pickup as well is a two-year contract uh staying the same for two years and that's within the budget we already have okay thank you all right so can we move all the Motions forward as vedin okay Gray yes Melvin yes still yes black yes all right we have another appointment with the advice and consent of council to appoint ingred to the Warren County Municipal and charitable Conservancy trust fund committee now had you served on this before ingred you know what it's all about yeah it's really great Mr Mayor sites I gladly make the honorous appointment reappointment of councilwoman grg you can say honorous honorous honor not not honorous okay honorous all right so we have a motion now you got it we have a motion in a second okay Gray can I go to myself sure sure yeah yes Melvin yes D yes slack yes okay public comments anybody have any public comment they'd like to make this evening either of the two of you no comment excuse me excuse me thank you good to see friendly faces at these residents of our town I [Music] hope no I'm I'm a man oh all the way out in Manville yeah that Peaks curious I was going to ask but I I don't want to know I don't think interest in our meeting or this doesn't again for some of the okay I can appreciate that all right seeing no public comments we need a brief executive session I moving moveing to Executive session stay here or go to our copy uh no way you two aren't we may take action to advertise for an officer and motion you guys S have a good night stfe home okay who's making the motion for executive session it John all in favor I I okay okay we're back somebody making the motion to return to regular sorry I'll make the motion to return to regular session second and all in favor I uh summarize what we talked about in executive session we have some person now we're going to authorize the chief to look for a new hire for the police department um when he finds one he'll bring it back to us clarification replacement hire replacement H for Bobby Falls and also uh to promote Mike Co from Sergeant to Lieutenant that's correct uh authorizing the chief to make that promotion so that was your summary I'll move that forward second okay and I say gray yep milin yes still Yes slack yes any other business before us tonight motion to I'll second that hopefully the she she are G all in favor put you back to work hi hi St your name