##VIDEO ID:bT_dcYIlfbo## [Music] the following is the agenda for the special open council meeting of the B of conses Mayor and councel Municipal Corporation in the county of the the meeting will begin at 6:30 p.m. on December 11 2024 the municipal Hill 25 L Avenue L consistent with the New Jersey open public meetings act the meeting will be open for public comments and shall be in accordance with the terms and conditions of the bal's municipal code and in conformance with the open public meeting Law Public Law 1975 chapter 231 adequate notice of this meeting setting forth the time date place and purpose of the special meeting through notice posted on the bulleon board in the municipal building mail to all requested and paid for same and mail Suburban Trends roll call please here coun here herecan Ken here Council here Council here Council here with evening is our attorney D and our administrator Micha okay uh motion open meeting for public comments council president blind councilwoman kilberg all in favor I against okay uh motion to close the meeting for public anybody I'm sorry anybody want to talk no okay uh motion to close the meeting for public comments they wanted to talk M well okay well you can do it after we speak if this is that what you want or you want to do before it's up to you guys I would like I would probably like to speak first okay then step up [Music] please all right uh Joe kleinot uh 231 I I've watched Council meetings but I don't know if you need to know that 231 Willow um also the president of L leag um let me just start with I don't have a a child in the league no longer um they've probably been out for about five years but they all three of my kids ran through the league from tball all the way up to the big field so I've probably been in this program 20 years and on the board for at least 15 so um when we came to the council about 7even years ago uh to build these fields the main reason was because the t- ball fields where they currently are are in a bad position based on home run balls hit from one field and foul balls here from another field um so they're kind of getting bombarded with foul balls and home runs and um God forbid somebody gets hit I mean you could yell heads up but that's that's not going to necessarily help um those fields are pretty much used uh six days a week um of the 400 kids we have in the program at least 150 of them use that field so that is our biggest uh program to date and again six days a week um those fields are in sort of the front line of where the flood waters comeing in so they are in a bad uh predicament so uh when that when the waters come in or if they do come in um where the fields would go if you are familiar with that area and again I've been through probably two or three floods the water does not touch where the new Fields would go it's I've watched it on our cameras uh they it just doesn't do it it's a higher area if you look at the snack stand if you've been down there you look at the snack stand the water actually goes through right fills up that left right side bowl and doesn't touch where the new Fields would go so if you were worried about flooding or whatever for those fields um it's it's just not going to happen um also listen to an engineer based on the fields and worried about floods um if it should happen to flood it's not going to affect flood levels or anything he actually said it would kind of better off the flood so it's not going to increase flood War um the other field that's proposed uh would just be just a nice field because all our fields are used by multiple teams and never get any rest so um it just would be just a nice addition to the current fields that we do have there um again seven years ago I think the hardest part of this was EPA and D approving this um if they have now approved this with no hiccups I don't see why we can't move forward with that because that seems to be the that was the biggest hiccup every time I talked to somebody was EPA DP you know so we've cleared that hurdle um now let's we'll get to the money part so my understanding is we have $430,000 in grant money that is just sitting there that needs to be used by April um we've done all this work you file for all this money um we have open space committed at 150,000 also so that's $580,000 to be used towards these fields um the town has already spent $100,000 on engineering permits Etc so again not to move forward with this as a resident or as a as a former father I guess of these kids um I'd kind of be pissed if you spent $100,000 and don't move forward uh with this program um so if my understanding is the project is at $947,000 and we all know that that number has been overinflated just looking at numbers we met with the engineers and Michael and by myself we cleared out 30 to $40,000 and just stuff that was overp purchased um we know that trees don't necessarily cost $15 $1500 $500 $750 but we'll keep going um so if you take the $947 $947,000 uh you take out the $580 that we're getting from Grants in open space the town is now responsible for $367,000 their some all right but again over inflated um I would also say listen if you were going to buy a house for a million dollars and somebody gave you 2/3 of the money I probably by the house more spend $300,000 [Applause] so it's pretty much all I have but I also I appreciate the time um in this and hopefully I look forward to your approval upon this for the families of pum Lakes Riverdale so thank you thank you anyone else from the public like to speak please step up my name is Brendon Mar I live 115 rampo Avenue in P Lakes um just to follow on I'm also a member of the board of little league I've been on the board I believe eight or nine years uh one more year just starting and my children all three of my children went through the program at uh at some level U two out of three went all the way through the the program all the way through High School uh I was a coach coach approximately nine years also so I've been involved in the program uh a couple things I want to stay at on the little leag board I help I run the t-ball program and it is by far our largest portion of the t-ball program and we run now ages from age three through six are involved in that t-all program we really want to put forth the best program possible for our youngest members of our community the the situation where the fields located now it is primarily a safety issue that that due to location uh any ball hit out of Don Jens could possibly uh hit a parent or a child and any foul ball from the senior field which is really the bigger risk I personally thing uh so it's a safety issue the t-ball Fields primarily safety issue that t-ball Fields need to be moved uh secondly the the t-ball Fields as Joe mentioned is the first point of impact from flooding so uh every time there's a flood even if it doesn't affect any of the other fields the t-ball fields are always affected so they're the closest to the river get the most damage done to them they really need to be uh they need to be revamped as it is they're they're are oldest fields and um they need to be in a better location so this takes care of all that um there are concerns about flooding and flooding in the area I'll tell you this uh this past year we've had probably some of the worst wooding um I've personally seen in the time I've been in the burrow um the support that we that we got from the community the um the number of people who called me personally and said whatever you need need uh landscapers uh uh excavation equipment whatever you need will will help you get it done so if your concern is is the field condition after a flood uh if you just go down and look at the condition of the fields today uh they by by the start of open the opening stay the the fields were taken care of for the most part and our community does it and and it was done on minimal uh expense to the town the town helped us DPW has always been supported but the the bulk of the work and the bulk of the money often comes out of the Little League operation if you're not aware uh we spend anywhere from10 to $20,000 a year maintaining our Fields preparing our Fields getting our Fields ready for every season every year we do a project to try and pick one of the fields and bring it up to speed um so that money uh often comes out a little leak it's it's not tax dollars people people think that the town is spending a lot of money down there they cut our grass they help us with anything we ask but for the most part the clay purchases the the the equipment purchases the the fence one year we spend $110,000 maintaining the fences all that comes out of the Little League budget and so concern about flooding concern about maintaining another set of fields is really minimal because little league will take care of the fields we do the best we can and uh ultimately the fields need to be updated the the program uh needs Fields uh we are overusing the fields we have so an additional field able to significantly impact that uh we just learned this past week we we sometimes use um Riverdale school fields to help us back up for practice fields they may not be accessible to us in the future so everything we want everything down there we want to put the best foot forward the best program possible and we need our our town to support it and put this program uh on track thank you thank you anyone else from the part of like please step up good evening Donald oery 103 BF um I'm kind of the opposite of Joe and and Brandon uh my kids are 10 and8 in the league um I'm also involved in uh multiple other Youth Sports in the town as well um from P to the soccer association like I've been coaching and actively involved so i' I've SE a lot of the improvements helping out a lot in a lot of different ways um to say that you know as a coach as a as a parent the one thing I do ask you guys when you really discuss this tonight is to not really just simply focused on how the process got here right now because that's really not what we need to worry about what we really need to worry about is what we're going to be doing for these kids moving forward that's the real end goal here were there possible things that could have been done differently I'm sure there is we can look back at a lot of things and say that but tonight we really got to focus on the future of these fields and the kids that are in our town those areas of the fields as they mentioned have our highest numbers uh dealing with travel programs as well within our town travel teams um it is a bit disheartening when we go to other towns and our other kids are have like a shock in awe when they walk into their fields and they are Immaculate they are brand new they Turf and all that they have lights they have everything you can imagine they have snack stands that are run by restaurants so a lot of towns have a lot more perks than we do and we understand that it is disheartening to try to defend that all the time for our kids now we're not up here asking for T Fields we're not up here asking for all that we're asking for something that these kids deserve a lot of kids go through our little league a lot of kids go through our soccer association which also use these fields in some fashion I think that's important to understand too is that a lot of kids are now going to go through this who could have possibly went through this already and and had these new Fields done but again we're not going to talk about that but moving forward it's something our kids deserve you know hopefully that this this does get tonight um and I'm hoping that my kids are able to use the field but if they're not able to uh it it will be something that is uh something that we are going to be extremely upset about it's something that um again our kids deserve and I hope you guys could take back I know a lot of you here uh that are on the Town Council have been coaches before you know take a step back and take the council hat off a little bit and think about it as a former parent of kids in the in the leap think about as a current resident would we want something like this improved in our town and the answer should be yes just like we wanted the development to happen in town it's happening it's moving forward and it's looking great we want the same for our field so I'm hoping that we're able to view that in the knowledge of what's going to happen in the future for our kids thank you thank you anyone else from publicly please step up good evening everybody Salo 230 Broadway I am the current ppto Lakes River Deale Little League Treasurer and have been a board member and executive board member for 5 years um just to reiterate I'll be a little more brief three gentlemen before me um the process obviously has been in motion for close to 7 years now and a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of effort has been um expended on this um the monies are available the grant money um open space money um there are many projects that have happened throughout the town over the past few years um being a head coach as well as very active in the league um there's a lot involved all of us were many hats together and spend a lot of hours our own on our own personal time away from our families working down at the field um like we said the number one priority here is the safety of the children the location of the field and where we would like to relocate to um those fields are not flood uh danger um but we want what is best for the children the fields are in need of an upgrade um like Don mentioned um and I see it too and sometimes you hate to admit it going to a lot of other fields in the various counties of the state um you take a look back and you say wow we we could make the improvements if we had the money um being the treasurer I'm much more accurate on the numbers now in the 5 years that I've been the treasurer for this league we have spent between about $ 135 and $140,000 of League money on improvements to the complex when you go down and you take a look at it sometimes you may not see some of the small intricacies that we have done but they are there um but we're just asking for your help for the children this is for no personal benefit of ours we're looking for the future a a lot of our children have aged out and no longer play in little Le mine included um so this has nothing to do with any kind of a personal interest this is something that we want to so that the little lead uh program in this town prospers moving forward Beyond our time so um we're hoping that we're able to come to an agreement um thank you very much for your time and hopefully we have a good resolution tonight thank you thank you anyone else from public like to address stand by yeah I know I'm yeah uh Sean I live at 38 Hunter place um I'm new to the board next year I'll be joining them as the treasurer taking over for South I've been in town my entire life okay um take my shirt on fire first aid whatever I've done it all uh as far as the field wise I'm new to learning all about this if it comes to safety and for the kids I think obviously it's something that needs to be done regardless I played on those fields from when I was a little kid all the way through high school and there in the exact same condition as they were um the board has and the little league has made certain improvements and it you can tell they made improvements since I was a kid up until now but as far as relocating them I I obviously it's something that needs to be done as far as the flooding wise I can tell you firsthand I know where it floods I know where it doesn't flood um if you don't believe me I'll talk to you afterwards and I'd be more than happy to tell you where it floods and doesn't flood um I have kids they're three and eight my son is just you know into the swing of it and my daughter is just about to start I got a lot invested in this for many many years and if the fields haven't been touched I'm 37 years old Fields haven't been touched in over 25 years where it needs to be taken care of I think it's about time it need to be taken care of um they threw numbers I don't know numbers obviously numbers and Money Talks I know how that works and this lot of work but just keep in mind it's for the kids and it's not just for our kids in this room it's for future kids it's for uh I don't know any of anybody that has kids this age that are playing but it'll be there forever and I believe that it's something that needs to be done and that's it I'll keep my short thank appreciate it thank you so unless if somebody else there's another session uh talk if you want to say the same thing we've heard the message please step up but we got to get it going so we can vote on it so up and say what you got to do quick Anderson po ridel um so apart from numbers things like that I just want to talk about the value prop so t-ball you're going to see as a Gateway right a lot of the kids here this is their first like fora to organize Sports and my daughter did it 3 four years ago I've seen these kids now do wrestling field hockey lacrosse soccer wrest uh all these Sports football so I think the importance of this is that this is their their first step into seeing what it's like to participate in the team to be coached to learn things like that and you know for me you know I saw kids over the last four or five years because I coach two sports just grow by Leaps and Bounds and that started on these te ball fields so just anecdotally super important that's all I got so please prove thank you anyone else please real quick just so we get3 M Avenue just your name I'm sorry Anthony Val 253 M Avenue I am not a board member uh I am heavily involved uh with the program we talked about safety we talked about funding from with then I want to talk about competition and me personally the travel teams that I've managed uh several of the families of my family were on my teams uh have moved on to other towns for various reasons but in speaking to them part of them is they moveed to towns that have better resources more resources from an athletic perspective especially regards baseball that has something to do with their decisions toart and the families of departing are those that have children that are of a high athletic quality uh just the parents are that much that much committed so what I'm thinking about is you know we would love having hersfield as our golden our Golden Crown there and how we have a competitive team at the high school level and doing really well and I see all the Facebook posts of how everybody's so proud of holding confence at a high stature it's start those decisions start here as far as maintaining that high level of competitive nature of pomp lcks so the decisions we make tonight will influence how these teams how PP performs at that level in the future what kind of universities D1 how many kids are going to be going to D1 universities coming out of Pompton Lakes and we can make an impact here with our decision on that thank you very much thank you anyone else from public okay motion to close public session motion councilman benon council president D all in favor yes I'm going to address everybody at the same time first of all thank you for all your time and effort you put in as a volunteer to our little league which is important to start right from there okay I think everybody up here hasn't coached at one point in some one sport or another so they understand where you're coming from um this you know I don't think anybody's arguing the fact that we have to upgrade our Fields I don't think that's even an argument because we know as time goes on we always have to maintain our fields and you guys do a great job in doing it football does a great job what they do and every sport does what they have to do at the end of the day we're going to discuss as a group it's it's the aspect of where it's going in the money um everyone's going to have an opinion uh I fully support it I can tell you that you and people know that um it's been a long project it's long coming and our kids do deserve it and I think theater program someone mentioned that's important that's where these kids come from from all this education they get when they're younger the idea of being on a team and playing with other kids and learning how to communicate and all those things that come along with sports is a big part of how I see Sports and and it doesn't matter if you're a D1 athlete or you never play again after t- ball you get the aspect of what it's like to be on a team and be involved and that's important especially for girls um because sometimes they don't have that ability where boys kind of go right into sports all the time so I think when we have a discussion I think we're all coming from the same place just just be understand that okay Mike thank you uh thank you mayor and Council so tonight we have Tom barate and Alex Alex peteski uh from dhapasi Engineering Associates who's our B engineer um so they'll come to the podium and they'll give you just a brief overview of the project I know this project dates back several years um and some of you weren't council members at that time um and then we'll go over the cost as it is right now and then offer some proposed uh maybe alternatives to the project and then hopefully we can come to some sort of decision um we're looking uh for direction on how to move forward on this uh considering the age of the grants that we have um so that's where we're coming from so we're looking we're going to we'll call it a vote it's going to be a straw pole to see if we how we move forward to spend the money that's where we're going to end from here and once we have that decision Mike can then start making some movement on his end with all the grants and all those other things so okay guys yeah I'm going to bring up the burrow engineer good evening everyone my name is Alex pesy I'm with Donald C engineering um licensed professional engineering in state of New Jersey and this is my boss Thomas barate also Don engineering he might need to duck out um a little early today so I'm going to give a presentation just in case um the project is been in the pipeline for quite a while now uh from looks of it started sometime in 2019 uh your you were issued permits by a d of about at this point 3 years ago uh for this project it entails basically relocating the two t-all fields and constructing a new uh little Le field on the southern side of the property if everyone want turn around and look at that plant uh on the board over there you can see it more clearly it's part of your permit for the D that white and the purple areas will need to be restored with uh vegetation as well as trees and that is a significant cost TR project uh unfortunately little field is adjacent to the pumpin river uh located on the left hand side there the pumpin river is a category one water with 300t comparing Zone parts of the property also located with the Wetland and you Al within the floodway and there are pockets of all lands uh throughout the site um as far the project we also included a walking path uh you can see it there on the Eastern side of bottom right hand side of the screen uh we there's also potentially a proposed playground um located between the parking area and the t-ball field um and it's uh basically a quick summary of the project um so there's been a lot of concerns about the cost of the project so we came with a cost estimate from uh June of this year and we came in with a number for construction cost uh estimate this is engineer's estimate I'm not a contractor I'm an engineer so we try our best to use Market rates uh and sometimes we're conservative I think the word plated has been thrown around a lot I I prefer to use the word conservative um things come up during construction uh con during construction that really drive the cost up so we like to have contingency and we like to do the survey so we're not coming back to the council uh every couple months asking for more money uh we want to be able to start the project and finish the project with the budget that we have now we we start coming in look if the numbers start coming in low I mean that allows us we either save money or do a little extra um so that's kind of what our motivation is for using conservative numbers again conservative um so we were we were asked by some of the council members to consider um some cost savings we met with Joe uh from Little League we talk we also sharpened our pencil a little bit tried to take into account the economies is scaled because we're planting quite a few trees almost 100 trees I think we're planting and we're cutting down close to 100 trees so maybe we looked at sharping our pencils and we moved some benches potentially we saved about $25,000 uh potentially that way uh we were speaking with Miss Kent um meeting today uh we looked at the net cost of the walking path the net walking path cost is approximately $330,000 and that that's a potential savings right there if you want to n the walking path um I don't think it's a priority for the little Le um but it's an option there as well um this afternoon I prepared a quick uh a Hail Mary is what I call it um an estimate where uh we based on the uh comments from the public um they're going to give me the St is potentially uh having not not constructing the new t-ball Fields immediately and maybe pushing that down the line um and that's really is the helm area I based on I think what I'm hearing it might not be an option for Council so maybe I don't want to go into too much detail about it um but one thing I was also thinking about while was sitting here with my boss um some other potential savings is the t-ball field the fencing and the back stops around the t-ball field really do make make it a nice field and it's a nice introduction to um t-ball for the Youth but um the she amount of fencing required for such a small field um you you're potentially if you can if you would consider eliminating that you have potential savings about $80,000 to remove foul pole walls uh fencing and back stops uh we have potential significant amount of savings so the issue here is well there's no issue is just if we look at High your costs break down can I pause you for one second just out of curios is there any mention of parking in this plan uh no there is not not having a discussion about parking that was one of the things specifically we wanted to review well the parking would be where the parking is now well I don't want to take any more of your time but I just knowing historically weatherwise how that usually gets addressed with rainfall I was just curious having the two additional fields or we have an expectation of addition vehicle traffic that section of there there's a soccer game going on that fills up along with a t-all and all the others do we have anything is there any concern from anybody it's not two additional Fields it's the same addition Fields we've had just being moved and we're just moving the t-all field over and there's not a new field and we're building one Sor taking the two t balls out field so is there any concern with traffic I mean not traffic parking at all and I'm not the expert here but I'm assuming Studies have already been done I just need somebody to give me it's not an issue of firm answer or yes it's an issue of firm answer and I definitely don't want to hear a 3 months down the road okay um on the issue of parking uh our our office took over this project in 2024 um permits were already in hand um our understanding is that that was considered in the design uh we we have not got into details down Park paring study from what I'm hearing from the Little League organization is they had mentioned is fatigue on the fields so potentially they're not going to be using uh this field simultaneously with the other fields is that a correct assumption gentlemen it's not a soccer doesn't play what we play that's a different season my understanding fields are already there so I just remember how it was the only reason why I was asking is I remember how it was when I coached everybody parked along long the grass everybody dips into the little crevices they can so I was kind of hoping and we're looking to beautify that field yeah I would assume we would want to stay away from that cuz that really doesn't look good at all anyway well we can't though because those are blue acre Field park that's fine but I'm still just curious about the parking you know if if you haven't done a study and it was done before and I'm assuming we're going to have to take the word of the previous engineer that did the work that would and I'm not going to stop it because we don't have a lot of time now time we got plenty of time yeah well I'm pretty sure there's going to be a million question M I don't even know we're going to have enough time but go ahead just continue we back paring I did meet with you at the field and a very specific question was asked about parking as to whether or not we could or could not park on those vacant Lots up at the top of the hill by the houses and I was told you were going to look into it and revisit it and get back to us so we did ask specifically about whether or not parking would be there and at the time it was like oh you're not really allowed to but nobody will say anything we could get away with it and I asked for a study to be done on the parking we don't we have confirmed if one was done on the other job we're just assuming that we can park there and that there is enough do we know did you revisit it I mean it's been asked a few times um so we're talking about the just so we're all in the same page below the long white area where there's restoration going those are the blue acre lots to the left of the proposed walking path where people have been barking for The Last 5 Years yeah I mean those are those are conservation restrict Lots right they're not supposed to they're not designed for parking they're not designed for parking but they're they're if there's lawn areas where people could park temporarily I you know it's kind of a gray area you're not going to go get a permit for it but if there's an event and you need to park there I I don't know that there's going to be any issues with that this is ongoing regular parking through two seasons of of two different sports but when we took over this project remember we came in this year we we did talk about parking I I do remember that but these permits that were obtained that you spent a lot of money on and that only had those shaded areas within the scope those are the permits that you have before you if you want to expand parking you have to go back to D PE from the beginning so it it's really not an option at this point to put more parking in okay and and and our takeaway was from speaking with little league and administration that there really isn't a parking problem and that you know we're taking out two Fields putting in another two Fields if I'm hearing there's a parking problem then we have to have a deeper discussion potentially well it's the same thing does this design remove existing parking it restores area along Willow a that we're currently using for parking and that one area past snack stand will no longer be parking either that's well yes the one house would where the field is going correct no past the yeah that hasn't been used in the last 3 years that's been closed driving down the hill past the snack stand it it it's what is parking now and that will no longer be parking after that's going to be restored so you're losing all that parking also that was part of the give and take with d under the prior design I mean they they want some restoration for the additional disturbance and there's only so many areas you can restore so so when the high school has a football game there's not enough parking at the high school football games they park on the streets they Park wherever they can find the spots and they come in they go out and that's what they do when football has a game at PE at football they Park wherever they can park under the trees wherever then they go away and it's it's empty it's the same situation that we're looking at here at Joker when there's a game going on people Park under the trees and when there's no games going on they won't Park under the trees it's the same situation well in in the context of size hfield is much bigger so is the lot it allows for more room to navigate around that little particular section is it's a oneway at best during game time and that's including people will park to the left and to the right you know the grassy areas and anything in front of the fence all the way down the fence will be gone yeah they're not well I'm just saying you're talking about a very large parking lot and a very narrow field when there's games going on and they Park to the left and to the right I mean I think all of us are in agreement we've seen it we've been there we know how it is down there so I don't agree that it's an exact I know people Park where they need to park that's fine so when will field was built initially the only parking lot that was put in is that the the gravel area which was only 20 spots I think and that's 29 spots if they were lined that's whatever you can make up with it because when you park in there is however anybody fits in there nobody ever Parks perfectly aligned to cover every single spot that was developed so look I'm not going to drag this out about the parking is a little bit disappointed that it was not at least looked at to see if that was something viable even if it's a couple of more spaces to help navigate the number of cars that go down there so I don't want to P because we have probably a lot more to hear so sorry about that all keep going does anybody have any questions about the plan itself not including the parking just what he's talking about now the only question I have is so I was on the open space committee back in 2019 when we first started this and a couple things um my personal opinion I'll just jump in now I mean we really wanted to plan this thing out it was we were moving the t-all fields we saw there's a restoration area that needs to stay in that's that's an absolute must the additional field was based on giving the field more rest additional additional usage whatever it is we added the walking path as sort of like an additional thing to me I we can lose that that's my personal opinion um the playground again was something you know your brother or sister is playing playing sports it gives them something to do rather than just running all over the place again maybe now the time's not right the one thing I did have concerns about that don't see in a plan is one of the things we discussed is when when we establish these fields the t-ball field and the new field having a spot just at the snack stand so kids can cross between the fields without having to worry about vehicular traffic past that snack stand because one of the biggest things was pedestrian safety between these fields and cars coming back and forth in that area and we had identified ballards and I would like to see that was put back into the plane for that purpose but I think we Clos the street now you can't go past the snack stand anymore if that's the case now corre is that correct strip there you see the restoration strip uh yes that's U below the existing baseball field we're taking out that road so there won't be the cross trap so you won't even have a road anymore are between the trees where people park now okay will be planted with more trees as part of the restoration all the white is restoration okay then that addresses that so there won't be those cars coming back and forth thank you any other questions yeah so these alternate suggestions that you made which thank you because that is what we are asking for the project taking out your alternate number one and alternate number two which I guess we were going to discuss the project as the base right and then and then subject to potentially adding an alternate one or two which I think we all know alternate two is not really anything anyone's concerned about so without alternate 1 and Alternate 2 adding in the 85 that's not included you're looking at about 731 for the base project and the 85,000 in soft cost yep right so if we take out the grant money the 30,000 for the walking path and the 150 that open space has moved to the project you're looking at a a burden on the burrow of about 121,000 um that correct Mike does that sound right yeah so I could I could just go over the cost really quick so the the new construction cost estimate that was provided to you remove alternate one and two yep so the new construction cost estimate that was provided to you today has a gross construction cost of $646,000 in Grants plus an extra $85,000 for engineering cost bidding and Grant Administration um it would be a base subtotal of 31,3 60 minus the 150,000 that the open space committee has uh recommended to the this governing body so really without the t-ball Fields potentially phasing them in in the future this governing body is only looking at uh financing an extra 150,000 for the project so I I have no further questions look if we can eliminate those two alternates figuring oh and actually my number is off by 30,000 cuz I'm taking the 30,000 out for the walk inome yes so that puts a burden on the burrow of about 120,000 so if it could be phased and we could revisit additional grant money and look at expansions after we see what it looks like when it's done hoping we don't have any further flooding because I think we want to talk about the impact in the repairs on flooding too and potentially create a second phase for this project that is funded with grant money and includes the one thing that I have concerns with that hasn't been discussed is putting all this money into a field and not even touching the structure the bathroom the leech field I would be willing to phase this out start see what it looks like I don't know I mean that's just my opinion but if you propose that you think this project is viable without those two alternates and that's an immediate cost saving and take it out an extra 30 for a walking path which I have to be honest with you I know none of you asked for it but I stood at that Park immediately after the rain water washed away whatever walking trail would have been put in that we would have spent money on would have been gone and I know that you you did offer to us that the volunteers repair everything they take care of everything and that's great but do you want to add extra manpower to repair a walking path okay so all right so you can't all right so this this project wait hold on this project was brought forward and I don't agree with the the assumption that was just made this project was brought to us seven years ago for the tball fields that's what it was about okay it wasn't about moving the t-ball Fields another 5 years out down the line it was about this or that we can get rid of the T the walking path I agree with councilman D we don't maybe don't need the playground we could save some money there but this was brought to us for for t-ball fields at the end of the day right so if the t-ball fields are 207,000 can we put them back in and then work with you on the other things you were looking to deduct like some of the extra gating and other aesthetic things that perhaps we don't need what we were talking about mentioning the in terms of cost savings potentially is removing some of the fencing back stops Al walls that are that are proposed for a t-ball field building the t-ball field clay um putting the plates down and striping it but not necessarily building the accessories um that is generally Associated it's not going to be a nice t-all field but it's going to be a t-all field and I think we were coming up to called savings about $80,000 by doing that so saving $80,000 to make a field look good and make what the gentlemen are talking about a place that people can be proud of to come to is a small price to play on at $80,000 we haven't put money in please I'm talking we haven't put money into this in uh in a long time we haven't put money down in this field the last time we did was Willow field and we didn't cut corners and and councilwoman Ken can talk to this we didn't cut Corners when we put and and Council D I think you were here too uh we didn't cut Corners when we put those fields in uh we put the back stops in we bought we bought for soccer we bought um goals we bought extra goals we bought defensing we bought all those things as part of the project remember we're we're going to bond most of this so you know an $80,000 difference not a big difference when it comes to bonding well just to put out the t-ball fields are definitely there's that's you know that goes without saying and I think if we're going to do this we're going to do it right that includes the t-ball field take care of it does start there guys that's the feda program you got to demonstrate it has to start there if you're we're looking to you know have something to be proud of it has to start there work its way up so that's my thought on that you know work it in yeah um though the least of my concerns to be honest with you guys look the big issue here for all of you so you understand we're all on board with this this is just something we're concerned of putting in this money three years down the road given what happened this past year with the amount of effort and work DPW was out there lot of suit across all the fields we had to take a look at the the buildings to make sure they were still whole there was a lot of things that went on so when we look at a million dollar investment and three or four years down the road half of it is washed away through a major storm it's not going to be you guys they're all going to come talking to us so I want to make sure we're all on the same page it's the flooding that's our concern and it's and I agree with you Bobby but it's always been the flooding down it it but we're putting in something new for a million dollar price TX however it's being paid for however it's being paid for it's still close to a million you know you can do the 940 Sumit a million to me because by the end of the day no project is ever finished on that budget or on time no budget not not a million projects there's yet to be a project that if you always have a little residual money on the side just in case or you're going to hit us up for money 3 months down the road and I should also mention I I I don't think we mentioned it uh was pretty unanimous at the open space to to move the project forward and to put the money I think there was one no and everybody else was a yes it was contingent on there being a proposal that money was going to be cost there was going to be a cost savings and that's another thing I think we need to talk about too so we've talked about how we're shifting 150 to offset this project what the rest of the council needs to know is that is another project in the pipeline with grants that are also subject to expiration dates that we talked about fully funding through open space and now open space will be depleted by 150 so the burrow will have to putli the rest of that bill so yes the burrow is not spending as much on this project but now it's spending an extra 150 on another project so that's a wash in the end so we have to think about other I mean that look that's worthy of being noted right we also collect 164,000 every year for 120 120 whatever I'm all for saving money but I think that if we're going to put in t- Bow fields we should do it right I mean a field isn't really a field without all the things that go with it it's just then a lump of clay were you suggesting removing things that were not NE like so I don't know what that looks like are you suggesting that there are perhaps other things in addition to what it needs to be completed that are extra that could be removed um I put the removable the fence in the back stop is my what my understanding again I I do have a limited understanding of D ball and baseball um but is the bare minimum that you need to operate isn't so I don't want to sound silly but isn't the back stop isn't that the round the cage that stops the ball from flying out backward so you need that that's something you need it makes it not a it's not a ball field if you don't have a back St it's kind of you need that when you said extra fencing I thought it maybe perimeter fencing somewhere I don't well right it's fencing in addition to the back stop so it's it's the dugouts Etc ET so if you're familiar if you're familiar with yes they have little dugouts for the for the t-ball they have little side fencing to keep people from running on the field you make it look like a little baseball field okay it's not a major league park it's it's deep Ball but you have little benches for them to sit on you have a little protected area so they don't get hit by a ball post if you don't have all of that it's not really you need to make it look right you do but I also agree with what Bob's saying I mean at the end of the day we these fields have been in a flood area for 50 or 60 years uh you know I was involved 20 years ago and I went through three or four very large floods down there that we all took care of it the snack stand seems to make it through every flood that we go through but um I think what councilman dine is talking about is a very valid point the safety issue that we're addressing also with this is a big deal because I've always said you know and I I was down there for many years the kids crossing to get to the snack standand from the other side it was a dangerous setup so if we're closing that down and they're not to be able to cross there that that's a big Plus in just in safety alone right there because that that caused me a lot of scare seeing these young kids five six years old running across to get a ice cream pop or something whatever they're get um all right any other questions here yeah I just have a question on the trees so is it a one for one is that why we're taking that 100 need 100 is that how it's working essentally it's a one for one so that 100 that's being put in there's no way around that right because you're going to need to dig all that up anyway you got to replace everything there and I'm assuming is that going to be a type of barrier as far as a natural barrier as far as the flooding is concerned it will function as a natural barrier that's not the intention of the D rules and regulation for it to act as a natural but are these are we are we planting adul trees here we looking at little mini little guys that are going to take 30 years to grow a 2 in calber oh that's not going to do anything well they eventually they'll grow no I'm just saying take I need to get it out of the public so everybody understands that this is not a full grown tree that's being put in there we got immediate barrier for the water this is you say how big 2T 2 and2 2 and 1/2 in calber they're several feet tall but there are more tree is it was I forgot what the number was more trees than we're taking out or is the same I think we might be able less compared to what we were taking out we were also replacing and bushing bushes how many total trees is it then is it I think it's I mean I I came with the round number of 100 but I think it's little I think it was plus or minus 100 that's a requirement right way around yes the DP is very sensitive about repairing Zone boundaries and they require a full restoration just wanted to get that out there any other question so at 121 if you put back in it's 130 um a little over a little less than 350 are you still going to continue to look at this and see I mean I think we talked about there being extra diamonds and other things that were asked for I mean we we met with Joe we talked about the plate um the number of plates is the number of plates they require uh explain what a plate is some people might not well we talked about there being the ability to have some of that removed I mean is this something that little league can put forth some funds for to help at least save some of the money here or I I can't speak to the little Le uh there's too many ples in the plan cut so this is my concern we talked about this you were going to meet again and it was going to be revised to show us what could be trimmed out and now we're being presented with the same thing that again with nothing trimmed out so you're asking us to look at something that has no changes made to it has potential changes that clearly are not workable and none of the other changes that were suggested are removed as line items so that we have a more accurate picture of what this looks like financially I would prefer to see it updated with what is in fact being trimmed out and where we stand so we know what we're voting on I'm not going to vote on arbitrary you you said it's about 25,000 that you trimmed out with talking to Joe yeah sharpening the pencil sharpening if I may we did meet with the little leag we did go over plate by plate foul pole by foul pole home plate we did modify the cost estimate so it is modified as modified so so what I'm understanding is we had you had that meeting that cut the that cut sharpening your pencil took about 25,000 off of the price that was initially presented so we should have that in our packet right now as the number that is the number so there's nothing the walking field is well we're going to discuss if we're going to want The Walking field or the playground that's separate that's alternate one and two MH no one alternate one is okay now what is the future of this as far as other repairs that need to be done because it was my and I don't know you guys know better it was my understanding that there's some leaks from the bathroom there's some other upgrades to the facility the bathrooms aren't working the leech field is saturated and smelly and what what is all of that so are we looking at now we've put a million dollars into a field to improve it aesthetically and the structure that sits on the property is in disrepair and nonfunctioning what is the purpose of that if we're not fixing the whole thing and how much more money we not going to do anything are we not going to do anything because there there something else that and and by the way the structure is not bading fields in the Lee field is going to continue to be a problem on a field that we're repairing so let me address this let me address this first of all the structure is perfectly sound and there's no issue with it there is not a permanent real leech field there this was put in 60 years ago by somebody who had a machine who dug a hole stuck a pipe from the bathroom and called it a leech field there is no real bathroom there and I think the way soccer and uh baseball have agreed to this is they put houses out there they've even talked about bringing a portable one that would sit for whole Seasons that has running water maybe on it um I don't think we're even discussing talking about cleaning the the makeb believe pit that's there we're not it's not in the plan right and it's not in the permit and it's not in a permit and it's and we were told by the DP that we we just kind of questioned them and they said that's a big deal you don't want to go there because it's a big deal it's essentially you have an individual permit now to do this work if we wanted to do upgrade the septic system there that's another individual permit right We R for okay all right so what I think I'm going to start with is I'm going to take do a STW hold down do you support the project and then we'll talk about removing things if people want remove things or keep things in or however however way you want to do you want to do it the other way and remove things first I don't care it seems backwards to ask us all right so then we'll start with what do you guys feel that you'd like to see if anything removed out of it so I I'll start I I mean I don't think if we're looking at saving money the walking path at this moment probably is not top of our goals I I think it's a great IDE thing and maybe that's something we can look about in the future by putting in later M Mike we have we have walking pads down there we have a number of them they're already been tagged and and they're already marked so if anything if I would save $30,000 with that I did speak to um individ uals are in the flood uh on the flood board and they said that that's something that they would be okay with not having so okay it's certainly something a Boy Scout Troop can do sure an Eagle Scout project would be that's a great opportunity for Eagle Scout now I I initially had put thought about putting the playground in that this was seven years ago when I was still down there it's a great idea only because kids are running around but it's an extra we don't need it and if we don't want to pay for it I'm I agree feels about that and I I just to reiterate look I I'm all for the project again I do have my reservations with flooding but only time will tell and we'll we'll address it then um but definitely without the playground and the walking path how does everybody feel with that I'm fine with the playground I I think the whole one of the points that we had way back in the day is that the playground is going to help us keep the kids in a safer area I agree and so that was the reason that they put it in and we've never had a playground down there in all the years I was there and I was a coach and a manager and all that stuff and um so it was one of the ways of keeping the younger kids or the older kids just depends on how you do it now you can limit the amount of playground equipment but the playground per se is not going to impact the fields and it won't impact the flooding and it won't impact the Natural Area down there it's not going to change that's what it you know what I'm not nickel and dime in this project personally all right so I'm going to start with Lisa I'll start on your end then I'll go the other way next time what do you feel about the playground well I would I would say no to the playground we can always maybe in the future get a rant and then put a playground in okay Bobby uh same definitely approve the project minus the uh walking path on the playground I'm the same same same R remove the walking path keep the playground agree with what Lisa was saying no no walking path no playground for now okay so we got some moving orders we have remove the uh the playground and the uh and and and when we say remove the playground just so say I agree with some people mentioned up here you know maybe that's something we do look on in the future and if we have some extra money or we get some open space money from the county again that's something we address if I may make one point um most capital projects that we do usually come in under budget um so if this does come in at bid under budget we potentially could use the remaining allocated bonded money towards maybe the playground right so that could be an option I guess to that point what's stopping us from leaving it as an alternative bid item you took the words out of my mouth so just leave it in for the and that's why it was proposed as an alter right so it's just become I mean I I would I would make I would make the t-ball move t-ball field a base bit it obviously but just make you know make the the playground alternate number one and if it comes in and everything comes in great then we add it and if not then we'll wait for another day okay anybody else have any other comments concerns no thank you guys thank you um all right so what I'm going to do is before I do this I'm going to open it up to public but I got four minutes to before my meeting starts so if you're going to talk talk very fast going I have a motion to open the meeting to public comments motion councilman venon who was the other one councilwoman paor you all in favor against anyone from the public like to address two seconds two seconds go I I like the way we're moving I I appreciate everybody's input uh again it seems like we're always just go back to it with kids safety um the road being removed is is is huge down there um I put cones up you know during games and after games try to get people moving in all different directions that's that's huge in itself so that will save me plenty of heart attacks just being down there um yeah the playground again this didn't come when we came seven years ago it wasn't about a playground it was about three Fields um but I'm I'm not against playgrounds I got a granddaughter coming through she's probably going to play down there so a playground in but I don't want to sacrifice this program this project for a playground or a walking path we got Boy Scouts coming through the program we'll we'll we'll build you a walking path we have plenty of scout projects they come to us every year with Scout projects if that's what it needs to be done we'll build it we have excavator we got all sorts of help to do that but thank you anyone else from the public like please step up just real Qui once again Brendan M um as a operator of the t-ball program the the fencing for the t-ball program it's actually more important than the older kids because the the little kids tend to throw the bats and that's like your greatest risk as a tball coach is being hit by a bat so that's why the fencing keeps the parents safe and they're in the S safe and keeping them all Cor in one dve foury olds anyone else would the public like to address thank you okay oh go ahead please step up sorry Paul Vante 156 G Roode uh writer director of Silk City films uh friendly toer characters may wait till the next meeting this is the pre yes you you got you got your own next two hours to talk thank you though anyone else about just a open close session Open session meeting right here yes please step up ready H 443 monair at I'm sympathetic to the little league in in this field I think it's the right project it's the wrong area being it's in the flood ride not the flood PL also talking to DPW all the plantings that they they're putting in they don't have the Manpower or the equipment I hope you're all considering that for the future if you do vote to push this project we're taking down over a 100 full grown trees and we're planting 3 inch diameter trees it's going to take years for them to root in case the flood does come through so I'm sympathetic um I am critical of all you guys where you all the years in the past at the open space make sure that this all went through properly now we're here at crunch time it's not crunch time we're okay go Ahad thank you but it's crunch time for the grants so it's crunch time so all these other things the track was added the playground was added we needed you guys there during that time in the years previous to make sure that this thing was progressing the way you wanted it to and the way it could progress It's a shame that we're at crunch time but it is what it is so God bless the council vote the way you feel thank you I can't talk again it then just find me a place that sit sit sit all right motion to close the public session motion Council paor councilwoman Kent all in favor counc bennon all in favor I Against okay motion to adjourn to uh motion to close our Open Session some moved councilman Cruz councilwoman kilberg all in favor against thank you everyone for coming unless you want to stay for this next meeting Prett sure