okay we're [Music] recording to do that form mod written advance notice is required by njsa 104 has been provided of this provided of this meeting at least 48 hours in advance of today giving the time date and location and to the extent known at the time the agenda of this meeting such notice stated the formal action may or may not be taken the notice was posted on the bulletin board outside the offices of the Municipal Court reserved for this and other similar announcements provided to the Suburban Trends the newspaper by the bur Council to receive such notices and followed with the burrow cour can we stand for a pledge please pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all World call please with Mr Silver here Mr Quigley here Mrs mvac is excused or late or late Mr Ross here Mr sopa please AB absent okay Mr Kimberlin here councilman bennon here mayor Sarah here Mr delas here Mr O'Brien oh okay and Miss Russell here okay first order of business is the um approval of the minutes of our last meeting which was on April 18th 2024 do we have a motion so moved motion second we have a second I'm sorry second I was one and I think C was too James okay okay um we have a motion a second any discussion all in favor all anyone opposed anyone voting pres pres pres two presents and who are they cilman bennon okay yeah and who was the other one Jim Kimberlin okay okay we have to we have correspondents and a lot of it one of it like 70 Pages uh first one was we like to welcome e to the board um he replaced councilman Del line who stepped down uh for um for personal reasons so that was number one the second one in no particular order um well I gu I can do it in some order um burough of Oakland um has passed a dust control policy I don't know mayor if you want to mention anything about that I know the good news is the Oakland project was turned down for the got concrete plant that they were going to put up uh there was a lot of push from the assembly over there happen there with a good group of people put together they turned it down so they will not be putting in a cement over it was going to be right on cax at the end cax on the end nightmare for us and a nightmare for them so Ju Just so you know for the public that has that um when when every neighboring town does something that's near us in that 200t radius they are required to send us the ordinances that they pass before the second I believe in case we have an issue um the next one is um from Wayne and um they're they're they're just changing um some parcels from open space to R30 residential um so that's what they're up to there and the second one is deals with um tier a municipal storm water General permits and from what I got from that reading that it had a lot to do with tree removal um and size of trees and planting of trees the big one though is from Bloomingdale um Bloomingdale introduced introduced an ordinance um for adopting a Redevelopment plan for um a huge track on Union Boulevard 45 Acres um this is the ordinance um I skim through it and basically I think what the public here needs to know and I don't know if the mayor and councel are going to have any um response to that we we are they're planning on that 45 acres to build three um residential buildings six stories high with a total of 500 Apartments um a 60,000 ft industrial building and something called an amenities building so it's a huge huge project in in buale um the only thought I had I mean generally I is that I'm not sure what it does to the traffic in Pompton Lakes and I'm really not sure when you get off on the edits on 287 um going towards Ian we wanted to come to ponin LS whether that was wonderfully engineered exits that are hard to do anyway um are going to get even more traffic that's the only input I would have on that so I don't know what the mayor and Council want to do with well just in association with that I had a meeting with Tilcon Tilcon is building a new road through WQ that's come out by Burger King so all the truck traffic that we have now on Broad Street will be taking that new Road group I took a a tour of the road they actually cut the mountain 150 ft on both sides and it's six Lanes wide um it's a large large Road that's going to go right through the mountain and come out of Burger King and Wu so all the truck traffic from tillon will now go that route not onto Broad Street which is great new but we left no input on the the no I mean you know they they've talked about as well face to okay so um that's what's happening in bloominghill and that's the only corresponds that we had executive director the executive director report then yes um with regard to 223 WQ um they have pulled their permits and they anticipate starting site work either next week or the following okay um just coining with the the contract but theyve begun ordering um long lead time items elevator window things like that so they're moov along start seeing activity there within the next two weeks okay that's good um they haven't unless they've sent them to you we've never gotten the 30-day reports that they were supposed to send yeah no he he sends them to me oh okay yeah yeah yeah okay and I and I just digested for you for you here I mean it's not much more than than that okay yeah it was it's just been an email okay um we have no conceptual presentations just a quick zip change to the um agenda um instead of doing the formal application which probably will take some time let's go over to the resolution for Salvador and Mita police 54 wanu Avenue compon Lakes lot 2400 Lots one and two in the Dr Zone if you remember we heard that back in March um it's really nothing but trying to um put a um I guess just kind of like a porch for lack of a better word um on the side of the building is the tailor building um the Tailor's building over by um across from Little um we um we had no problem with that um I don't know if they're going to do the project but um uh Karm and I spoke to um s and Molita and we decided that if they ever decide to do it no sense having to have to come back here we'll just pass the resolution and then they can go to the planning board if they ever decide to do the project so with that is there a motion to approve resolution 2400 Lots 1 and two Zone Dr motion have a motion second second any discussion have a roll call please Mr s yes Mr quy yes Mr Ross yes Mr uh kin yes councilman Ben yes okay so now we get to the the heart of the meeting um formal application pton Smith Properties LLC 2011 monq Avenue pton Lakes lot 6300 lot Zone ddd1 good evening Mr chairman members of the development agency see you again Steve Millen from greenbound Rose Smith and Davis here on behalf of hton Smith Properties LLC um take a minute to level set it's been a long time since the last time we were before you and then we have some new faes uh so what we are proposing here is a project on 2011 wanu Avenue that will be be a mix use project between retail and residential uh including affordable housing last time we were here we listened to the comments that were made and ultimately at the end of that meeting it was suggested that a subcommittee of this group be formed uh to meet with the applicant once changes are made that has taken place adjustments have been made uh We've submitted new plans and then resubmitted those plans um again so there's now three iterations of those plans and are prepared to go through and and describe what changes are before we get into that level of detail with our engineering expert with our architect expert there are clearly two big issues that that waren discussion up front here um and let's start with what our ask is of the agency there's going to be at the end of this whether it's today whether it's the next meeting before principal asks one is we want you to approve our project we think it's a great project is going benefit uh the burough tremendously um and and authorize uh Mr Brewer and I to negotiate Redevelopment agreement two as you probably know this project is necessitates an easement an easement from the pon hole lot into our property vehicular and pedestrian to allow access to our parking level we know that this agency can't grant that easement so while we're asking for from this agency is a recommendation to the council that they do so three we need changes or amendments to the Redevelopment plan as currently written um those are identified in in the application submission that we've made as well as the plans and our engineer will go through with you as well and then fourth as as you've likely seen before um if we get through all of that we would like to present to you our financials and make a recommendation um for a pilot here and you would ask that you recommend that to to the council so those would be our four asks at the end of this process but the two big ones we know that we spent a lot of time at our last meeting discussing and then again at our subcommittee meeting and uh know that there really seal threshold issues are the easement and the retail so I'd like to begin by having discussion on those topics and make sure we have an understanding or understand each other with respect to to what we're looking for and and the Burrow's perspective on that before we even start talking about you know the colors inside of the building because it really is mood if we don't get past those two larger issues so I want to start with these this property um to make work and we've revised it several times we've made it smaller we've increase the retail and doing so have have reduced unit counts um and we also are sensitive to to the amount of parking um that the burrow has sought from other redevelopers has obtained and requires here so to do that we need two levels of structured parking on this property the way the grades are structured and and the way uh that the lot is designed or the project is designed does not allow for connectivity vehicular between those two levels mean I can't have a ramp from one level to the other so we need access to both levels the only way to do that is to have one access on the streets which we have to one level and the other from the rear through the pond hole now as you all know all the businesses around one around the pond hole have parking access and access to the buildings back what we're asking for um for a project of this scope and what we need legally is that to be recorded in easy we're not asking for a specific lane or any specific property on the pth hold to get us there um because we understand we don't know what the world is going to look like tomorrow let alone 30 years from now in that lot you may want to put a parking garage there you want may want to build something we understand all we're asking for is whatever you design and whatever you do as long as we have a way to get there zigzag or whatever that we have that right because without that easement we'll never get a bank to finance this project um we never get Title Insurance on this project um because there's no legal right and perpetuity that those unit owner or those apartment tenants will be able to access their property um and obviously it's a property right that we're asking for it would have to be consideration for that whatever the value of that is to be negotiated later on now having said all that and understanding that this body can't give the easement I'd like to pause there and get General feedback on if this is something that if everything else works out the agency would be open to uh recommending to the council with particular attention I'm interested of course in in mayor and uh Council and Von's comments on this but we see this as a threshold issue that should be discussed up front would the easement take any of our parking spaces out of the ponle the way it's designed right now because we would need access obviously to our property it would remove where two spaces are now obviously we compensate for that or work with you to try to find those spaces elsewhere so only two spaces would be lost correct who who maintains the E easement is that the borrow or is that you like if the E again because it's not a specific area um we would we were contemplating an upfront consideration that would contribute towards whatever you you know however you want to allocate that those funds but it would be municipally maintained just as it is now but that can that can be a subject of negotiation eans can have within them a delegation of responsibility for who does things they have such the position that they have but that can be either way we wouldn't kill the project over that discussion Point as far as how many parking spots would be for the pwn easing how many cars would be going in and out so that level has 39 parking [Music] spaces and what would be the process to reverse an easement if if ever needed you would you wouldn't be able to do it unilaterally you would need to you and the property owner whoever the property is owner is at the time would have to negotiate that okay no questions so I can tell you from my perspective I can always speak for me because this we go to the council for a vote just everybody understands the easement comes from the council right doesn't come from this board it comes from a recommendation of course that but you're just support to recommend I have an issue with these I do because of the fact that I can't speak to what the public will do or the councils in the future will do they might want to build a whole building on that site and not have any parking in there they might want to put a parking garage they might leave it as it is I I can't with good conscience make a move now that might affect us 20 years from now that's my issue I understand what you're asking for I understand why you're asking for but it's a big ass it is it's a big ass and that's just my personal opinion I mean I just want to clarify you understand my point in that you can build a parking garage in there maintain easement well we still have to find a way to make the eement work with up what happens if we move our Municipal for example then there would be no eement you know and there was talk years ago you know 10 12 years ago moving our you still have parking around that we would but but now you're jig jagging around parking lots to get into your building center it's not straight line in it's going to be you know and then I got cars coming in it could get very messy that's just my personal opinion um I I wish you could figure out another way because I like the project I do the Project's a good project um another way to make it work with a ramp or another rce units whatever it is yeah well we so the the Topography of the land the cost of construction and what the cost would be to excavate to go down for those levels there's no less units we've looked at we've tried a council might B right we can the only alternative that would be possible here for this project to be feasible or any project it's close to its scale would be to eliminate the one parking level and to serve those 39 spaces in the p hold Li through licensing which we understand you have 100 spaces now available from the theater maybe not that much but not that much but I mean that you're right that is another consideration um again that would have to be talked about at the council uh you know we don't want to obviously fill out every spot that we have right sell it out then that will CA us issues 39 and I don't know your numbers I mean are your numbers at 1.5 what do you think our numbers are slightly above 1.4 1.4 um okay so we're you know we're trying to get to 1.5 but you know that's close uh uh uh you know that's that's another alternative you're right it is see it's more pal that would be more pal to me yes but I don't know spots I don't know counts I don't know how many much room we have I don't know any of those things I I and again I can't speak for the council I can only speak for myself uh the fact that the matter matter is I I don't want to tie the hands on a future group just because we make a decision now you know the building itself this is not the issue it's the easement that's why I wanted to start this right you're right and that's good way it start I I don't think that the easement is really that big an issue I think we got to fix these problems in PP LS now those buildings are old and tired and repacing them and doing a pilot program would help to borrow substantially and in 30 years it might not ever happened it might be 50 years it might be 70 years you can't hold up progress now cuz that's not progress you're right no but it could be five years I don't know I don't know the answer well you'll still be May so you [Applause] know the only thing I would say too is I still worry about just the overall traffic flow from the Palm home out it's just very very tough it it gets schools getting left you know is when school is out it's a lot more flexible I just think the flexibility overall it it's just very very tough to have that many cars coming in and out of the PO Plus what's already in there now um I totally get what the mayor is saying too you know I I get why you need it and I think overall the project looks nice too as well I just have a lot more concerns about coming out of that parking lot going up that that hill right there from from getting out to Lakeside a or trying to go out the other way where the Meridian project is MH so there's just a lot of traffic that's going to be coming in now out of that area stop too short I tend to agree with that I think what we're and I like the project also and I'm I'm more inclined to recommend leasing spaces than than in easement but even with that my concern is that Babcock and the parking lot is really becoming a usable Street I mean it's you know you come in you go out and folks are it's going to be usable thoroughfare which it is now but we're just going to be adding to that and that that I have a concern with that um if there was a way when we when the pond hole was redesigned that it was just a parking lot that may have been something different but it's obviously has a cut through that everybody uses okay um obviously everybody may have some opinions it's a policy decision obviously big policy decision on so ultimately and that's made made clear this is governing body decision um you don't have to make a recommendation you could if you wanted you could listen to the plan and just say it's a condition that they get they would like a recommendation that you recommend it you don't have to do that you don't have to if you want to take a position can you can you you and if your position is you wouldn't recommend it that's just as well um but don't don't believe that you're forced to take a recommend you know make a recommendation or it all falls apart you could listen if you so choose um and simply make it a condition okay that's for another body to make but I'll step back only the only comment I'll make to that is that and I agree with that but if you were to approve this project what what you're agreeing to is for Mr r i to negotiate Redevelopment agreement that Redevelopment agreement would only be able to be signed by my client if it's conditioned upon that happening so in essence you'd be recommending it because you'd be suggesting Redevelopment agreement assigning Redevelopment agreement that has that condition in we're knowing that that is required to have this project go forward well we would know that yes but we can't make that decision anyway can I ask and and I maybe I just don't know enough there's just no room inside to have an internal ramp in there no we lose way too many spaces how many spaces would you lose I me Bob if you can say Le 15 spaces well that's a better number say is that's a better number than 40 yeah um 15 15 idea here here's the problem talk about that licensing the spaces would allow we hold on we just have one conversation out there please licensing the spaces would serve obviously the ability for us to pay you for the licensing but we're getting the savings on the excavation of that other level so now we' be doing both I you save some money but and I've always said this that you know this about every project yeah the money issues are not my concern money issues are everybody else's concerns uh I have to worry about what else is good um and you're right it becomes an issue money is always an issue parking is always an issue big issue uh I just as a suggestion I'm just saying you would cut back considerably and I think 20 spots it's more reasonable than 40 SPS yeah it's a matter of efficiency because if the difference is 19 spaces right we're building a whole another level of 10 plus a million to build for 19 spes probably not but we can we can certainly look at that so we're saying maybe a combination of Licensing and keeping it internal right so a ramp so what I'm saying is a ramp on the inside right and to do that you would have to lose spaces inside sure it's roughly 20 maybe that's something we can license to hand 20 but there is a cost is a cost right without a [Music] doubt whether there's a cost to to all this I mean if if the bur was to Grant you the easement there's probably going to be a substantial cause to that too so which would be unknown right now the interest of my client I won't say substantial but yes substantial well right I have one more question about the E itself so the spots that you're losing are the spots that would be in front of your garage correct that's correct the one there spaces right here you look on the screen so those are the only actual spaces you're losing two but the way that that the parking lot is situated now it's and and and I've said this to our Engineers back when we did this it's not a maneuverable parking lot right now it's it's a difficult Pary lot to kind of drive just your line or the ones we proposing our line you're the one existing okay so even in in that would make it it's a difficult route because the way those angled cars are in and the lanes are narrow we had an issue with the fire trucks and we had to remove an island because there were some because we could make the radius turns um so you know just keep in mind too it's not the old parking Ponto where it was straight black back and forth and you could there was plenty of roomin way it's angled which we got more spots in made it a little more difficult good old days good old days you're swimming in your car but at least you can get there yeah all right well I appreciate the ation it sounds like we we should move forward because it sounds like there's there's some options that can make the project work one way or the other obviously we're not going to decide that the council's going to decide that the the second issue where we got substantial discussion at the last meeting and then the sub commit meeting again um was the retail obviously those spaces or those properties right now are retail fronting um approximately 7,000 square ft now not all the spaces are leased they're not going to be leased perpetuity different retail Market uh there's already been some comments regarding this this the status of those buildings um over Rec coil we initially came in proposing two spaces um and I can't remember the square footage but it was it was a couple thousand square fet perhaps we have increased that significantly we're over 5,000 ft so we're not far from where we were um obviously retail can be divied up into however many spaces a tenant wants but it can be divisable into multiple spaces um we think that's much more much better than what it was it meets what you guys were were suggesting was an issue in your initial review um but we also think it meets Market demands for for that area Town um to cannibalize the existing small businesses on wanu so those were the that was the second issue that I thought wed an upfront discussion whether what we're showing now um meets with the comments that were suggested at the last meeting H how much square footage is retail now 7,000 said no that's what it was I believe that's what it was you say that's what it was it's not what it is yes I was confused too there that's what it is now correct see where it is on the pl [Music] but we're going to have our architect just SW now to answer these questions you can put those up on the screen please raise your right hand state your name spell your last Britney Clen k l i m m do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give this evening before this board this agency will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth itself you got so Mr CL on on the screen is a plan prepared by your office title sheet 8201 proposed lower level floor plan upper level floor plan and this uh plan depicts one two three retail spaces here and the calfee shop on one of you there right correct okay and then the question was what we're proposing in terms of square footage just just before you go on just for the public just because you see qualy shot there it could just assum be retail space number four there's no necessarily PL for that okay it's just retail spaces um previously the coffee shop we're calling this the coffee shop was 1,150 ft it is now 1,120 ft uh the retail on the left hand side on the corner of this side was um 1,460 ft and now it is comprised of three spaces um starting with retail 1 916 sare ft just point out with the mouse just where she's fing so everybody retail one on the left um in the center retail two again 916 ft and Retail 3 is 9919 ft so we added about, 1500 [Music] ft and again these These are being shown as three spaces but they could be all one space or two spaces right and what was the current existing square footage of retail approximately 7,000 approximately 7,000 just on the first floor or is that includ because they have space upstairs too second Flor first there's no second you have an exact number was it 7,000 exactly 7,500 7,100 get that for you there I don't have any [Music] you know no around 7,000 we'll get the [Music] exact so what you did is added more retail on the left side they move for your entrance on your garage correct yes we we riged the plants here I'll [Music] let yeah you can stay focus on retail sure so um with regard to the change in the retail from the space that we had previously we reconfigured um the parking and the entry there was parking um where retail two and three are shown there was some parking in that so originally the parking or not originally um at the prior appearing in January of 2023 on the first floor we had um 33 spaces and now we have uh 28 spaces so the additional space went from parking to retail we also moved the trash down to the um lower level uh the lower level parking which was a recommendation of the agency to take it off this level and move the town that could be an issue because I don't know if a garbage truck would be able to make it into the PM that would be tough that that might be a okay think um there are dumpsters next that there's dumpers today but there's no right but there's no which I assume are de by trash trucks yes they are but there's no parking for you there yeah you would have spots there at something 20 4 whatever it's no but those would be in spots you were saying you didn't think a trash truck would be able well that's because the lot's open that's what I'm trying to say oh you're saying open well actually the lot right now is completely full of Cs because is high school graduation going on yeah so every spot there's car circling yes today today would be a good way to see yeah to drive around when cars parked and they block the back of the buildings because the spaces because the property lines our property line and their property line this time right and there strip spots [Music] yep comments for anybody on board about this that's a good compromise we want more retail you had more retail and recogniz retail is tough right now thanks to Mr Amazon but it is what it is but um I think that's a fair compromise anyone else have any comments no I question about the retail and I guess parking for the retail how would that work is it just going to be right outside the retail it it's we're proposing that parking is going to be handled like any other downtown business it's just through street parking upon whole lot we're we're we're basing our ratio on the residence residential okay and just so the board and and everybody's aware we are going to be putting in uni meters in the probably next 3 months in that back Pond Hall that will incorporate paid parking spots that you bought from the Town shopping student and workers there'll be separate it'll be a computerized system that break out in a car on how you do that so if they were to buy 20 spots they would would be computerized by license plate to know that those 20 spots are somewhere in that L they're not going to be next to the building they may be but they're not [Music] guaranteed so if there no if there's no other negative comments or or questions about the retail we can go into our full presentation now those were two I I don't have a problem with the overall retail space I know you're going to talk about the hand and parking I don't think I have a problem with that but just as you go through my overall comment and I think I had this comment before I just think it's too big for the lot and we talked about that in the other meetings to I understand the economics of lots height no I just think I think the bulk the the mass of the project for the size of the lot is we're trying to force a lot of stuff on it with a lot of different things that the municipality needs to do to make it work and I just think it may be too much but you can you know certainly go ahead with your presentation so yeah and when you figure out those numbers I just want to know the retail what it is and what it is proposed toal well if it's 7,000 approximately is existing I added up what's on the sheet right now and that's only 3,800 so we're still at a loss of almost you know 3,000 big loss and I get retails hard you know that's personally the the this the whole point of the Redevelopment Authority is to provide residential that can walk to retail and if we start taking out all of our retail then we've lost the point of the whole thing yeah I I think I brought that up too last time was we're trying to bring in more people and more demographics to handle retail restaurants or whatever to say it makes sense to build here it makes sense to have a restaurant whatever it may be and if there's just not enough square footage for that and and I you know I know from a parking perspective being in town for a very very long time people like you know that's always been a big issue too not that you guys have to always come up with a plan for that type of parking unless you're only doing retail which I would say that would be something to look at right retail is hard right now and I get it I just worry that there's just not enough there for right now but I think the retail I think we're talking about retail in a even going forward in a very different way than a clothing store or you know something like that I think that retail with the apartments is going to generate are restaurants and you know lifestyle type businesses not the traditional retail icon so but you still have to have this St no I agree with that I agree with that I think for what we have right now in town is very there you know it's not necessarily traditional retail but we have the opportunity to have more people in the area that can bring in different types of boutiques and and different types of businesses is much what we're looking for I know it's very hard right now and I know the owner he's come up and he said it like look I can't even lease the space that he has right now and I get it um I you know I don't have the answer for it I'm just my my concern is just there's still not enough retail so what I I like to I like to say Redevelopment is just about finding the balance between on The Leverage right we all we all have our desires I I heard just in the last 5 minutes competing desires we want more retail but it's too big um and you see the shape of the lot that we're trying to play with here and to get what we're all saying we all desire which is 7,000 fit of retail a 1.5 ratio of parking no access to the pothole and let's make it smaller I mean that's not happening right so we have to give on one of those things whether it's the retail whether it's the parking maybe it's a much lower ratio maybe it's the size of the building maybe we go up a couple levels nobody wants that right so we have to pinpoint where it is that we can pull one of those levers on to get the other cuz we're not going to get all of them but pulling all five levers at the same time there's nobody either which is I but I don't think that's well look the retail to me and and look we can talk about retails changing or it's good or it's bad I I I agree with with uh most of you guys up there including what Ken is saying we should have at least staying what we have maybe coming down a little bit but we that's cutting it's cutting it in half retail basically that's what it's doing um is you know and may I go back to what Mr Brewer said I mean Mr Sil said maybe the Project's too big for to make that happen and I understand the numbers and I understand what the costs are but at the end of the day we don't want to lose our downtown or or our retail okay there might be empty stores for a while there might be empty but I think with the turnaround people in time those stores could fill up yeah well probably you're you're asking for somebody to invest in a bank or investors to invest in something that maybe they're empty for a while just won't get built yeah I can't answer that right it just won't get built the reality that you know that's your guys's decision of what you want yeah well I think that I what I if I remember correctly the last two meetings retail was a major question that came up numerous times M um and you said you you would get work on it which it seems like you did you put some time and energy into it but I don't know if it's enough and that's up to you guys if you think it's enough well we were we were proposing about last time about 2600 sare ft uh We've increased it by about little short of 1300 so we did a 50% inrease no question as I remember from the last time too the upstairs parking had um two entrances not we went we reconfigured the that was even before the last even before that was the original that was the OG meeting we had we had Ingress degress at both sides we brought in Dynamic traffic and we Revis so it it doesn't play out that way corre I I mean from my standpoint and just being upfront and honest I I like how it looks I don't think it's necessarily too big per se my biggest concern is there's just not enough retail and and if if you said that was a big stumbling block at least from my standpoint it is because I see that we're going to we have a lot of projects that are coming down we want the ability to have that nice walking field walking to different places and and I get from the whole financial aspect of it right it's not just Financial I mean look at the the design of it you don't you can't get in tarket yeah well yeah I I I totally get it cuz I remember we were talking about that too as well just right on that road there especially during school hours how's that going to how's that whole flow going to work right um I what I'm saying though here is if you look up this is my cursor if you add the square footage that we're suggesting it's going to take up the full length of the building and then there's no access to even park anywhere par anywhere yeah so it's just this is this is that's not a financial issue that's just a space issue I'm not even sure but it's considered a retail anymore so we have for example two or three tattoo shops in town is that retail or is that Professional Services is uh are the restaurants retail or um the gyms retail I don't even know it's not retail is not like it used to be it's not five room singers and Gman retail stores I don't know what I don't know what it is anymore I guess we're just saying that the first floor is really more business focused I guess accounting firm is that is that retail I I don't know yeah I don't know I well according to the zoning it is because the fler accounting firms on the first floor in St matter we we I think we I believe when the master plan was redone um even I think when I was on the planning board certain of those businesses like hearing AO they used to be there and businesses like that doctors and things of that nature were okay on the um on the first floor okay so that I I think what we're consider what we're saying is first floor businesses may be better than retail bet maybe that're saying it the retail but you know businesses it's just not business space so again with with the matter of balancing all the issues here we want to be able to park on site right we we need to be able to where you rightfully have designed your Redevelopment plan to require on-site parking which means we need access on-site which this lot doesn't have right now right we we're Street Park and then there's a couple of spaces but it's access through pothole I'm just trying to in my head and spirit of compromise trying to figure this out I just don't know where we put that extra retail here and still have the access to the garage yeah I I see what you're saying Mr chairman I'd like to hear from our professionals who know about easements and things like that is that a common practice to have an easement through town so yeah there's EAS throughout many things that for traffic utilities utilities are the most common one uh for a cross access easement like this would be for for vehicles it happens uh it's not uncommon uh it's not the most common thing to do but you're in a unique situation here with the location and what's going on um I think at the end of the day the the town in general will need to look at it and say does uh what's being asked benefit the totality of what's going in there um you know there there's ultimately there'll be if there is an easement as opposed to I believe said leasing the spaces there there's a big difference there between the two um I don't know which way you guys want to go one way or the other but you know i' I've seen it both ways CHR have any comment on that not regarding um not regarding am I okay I I've seen them plenty of times I I don't think it's an uncommon thing I understand your concerns I'm just look at the size of the pond but I I agree with what Tom said we can't say you know we don't know when so we're not going to do anything now um so we have no idea when it is um and I think that they conclude particularly that it doesn't have to be a particular meet and bound easement as long as they have access however you get through it works so I think their flexibility in that regard is is out but I think that flexibility is what would cause the problem and I think that's where it's a free-for all trying to get to their driveway entrance if there's no set path there no no just to be clear we're we're saying we're flexible you can set the P right right but we're not going to do that properly so it's going to be it's going to I'm not saying we're not going I'm just saying we're not going to set up that and when I when I say flexibility that in the future should there be other construction or reconfiguration of a lot or you know you put in the storm water part I don't know that they will be able to accomodate their vehicular entrance if changes in the future not that it's all really nearly now but that they can you can move it but if there are properties there now that have parking or access in the back you going to have to provide that in some fashion in the future right if there's other buildings out just this proper I don't know that for sure I mean we don't we don't have any easement with any I understand they might be a presumptive easement saying look we've been accessing this for all this time now you tell us we can't we can't use the back of our store get in or out I don't know you can if it is nearly impossible to get a presumptive ement or adverse possession against Municipal government's on I with Mr which is exactly why we it's exactly why we need one I do think it's it's probably not realistic to think let's assume that the burrow agreed to an EAS and we agreed and the burrow agreed to a pan this is how you get from A to B to get to your garage I can pretty much guarantee you it's un while the EAS is enforcable folks will drive whatever way they want to through that parking lot right now what I what I'm what I was suggesting though and is in this future scenario in which we're going to put up a municipal building or a parking garage you can create only one way it just we what I'm saying is we don't care what way that is as long as we get in right now of course people are going to drive any which way any which way they want I get that okay so I guess I guess the question that I have for you Mr chairman is where we go from here we're prepared to present the details on this project we understand and and clearly those are going to be the two major issues um well I think it's I have another speaker me see if I can it seems clear to me that the majority of the folks have a problem with retail space I just I mean I I could speak for myself I mean yeah I I have a problem with it can does heck yes no I okay um I'm more on the fence with that but so that's like one one on the fence and how about the parking I mean what would we do with that would we recommend the easement or would we recommend leasing the spes um or would we just not send a recommendation at all and let the bough Council contend with it unfortunately again I think by setting the building we're we're giving weight to provoke providing the easement even if we're not saying it we just by saying we're going to push the building through well we can't push the building through we can't wrong wrong phras we but by recommending that the building go forward we're recommending that the eement be granted why not just leave it I mean since the council's the one that's going to vote on it anyway why you make any recommendation well that's what Andy bre suggested well this the mechanical this the mechanics the the problem they can vote on and easement but they're not going to vote on and easement if there's Not An approved set of plans for the easement to be at I don't I don't think that they're not going to Grant an easement I don't think they're contingent they would want to see it maybe there's a way to get it to them me essentially it's a veto that mean the governing body's got a veto on this um I don't know if it is I don't I don't know if that it's a discussion point for them to go to the governing body and they could weigh in on both how the parking should be and the amount of commercial space I'm not trying to say that's a good idea nor do I know if the governing body would give a informal okay but let's just before we seed or seed to to different agencies let's assume there was no parking problem let's just assume that for a second and this this body decided that okay this project is fine and 3,800 ft of retail is fine okay and we enter into a redevelopers agreement okay the that would be between us and then and the would go to the planning board and if in fact it was a pilot then the mayor and Council would vote on the pilot which could kill the project if they didn't like something okay so at the end of the day if there were no pilot and this was the project and we had thought that the 3800 Square ft of retail was fine then we would go to the planning board and would be built well we also need Redevelopment plan amendments right what I'm saying is a word so the governing body has really at Le two or three things way to get this yeah I don't think it's a good idea for us to Kick the Can down the street we deal with this monthin month out for years I think we have a responsibility to the burrow to take it off the mayor and cil's hands with our recommendation either way Pro or con I think that's kind of our job it it may be but they still have the ability to understood no I'm not saying that I'm just saying that if we just say ah you know we'll leave it to the mayor of council you know it's kind of weak I I want to because just Bas for the for the three members who were Express their displeasure on the retail I I just need to understand whether we have the size of this building we cut off two floors and we only have one floor of of residential you still need parking so regardless of the size of the building I just don't know how we increase the retail and Market well theoretically you could and I'm not saying to do this but theoretically if you cut it enough you could buy all the spots for doesn't have notebook at that point we're just building a 7,000 ft retail spot on SP I'm just that's you ask how that's that's but I'm not saying it's the right I I think the way you have the parking situated is much better than the last time you were here okay um you know the concern I'm having and I think James broke this up is there's a lot going on in that little spot right it's a lot going on and it's our spot so we got to make sure we maneuver it and make sure it's right the way we do it because no matter the best scenario it's still going to be a tight spot there's a lot going on you got school kids parking there you got people working there you got people shopping there you got people coming in and out granted these are off hours let keep that in mind that's what shared parking is right these people are gone during the day when people are shopping and then they're back at night when most of the stores are closed that's the idea behind this whole thing the question I have is that retail I'm hearing and I haven't heard from the owner yet but that they're having issues with retail and I can tell you that there are people looking for retail right now so I'm a little confused about that more all right I got have a retail spot that's been vacant for almost 2 years now so but are you offering them a lease I'm understand you might I'm offer at leas I tell them what the situation is and I don't get no calls I I've heard from some people who were interested that they could we should not have conversation I mean I think that's a big deal I'm Le the spot I want I want spot I want Le so what's our I mean I don't we're prepar to go forward but if we have members who are doesn't matter what we say that they're just pleased with the retail I need to have a solution to that problem before moving forward I mean I tend to agree with you the way the building is situated um there would be no entrance or exit to a first floor parking lot without taking some retail out it's probably an [Music] impossibility so and I'm I'm kind of okay with the retail side of it like to point something out from retail up to the um the first rendering so you look at the first rendering um all the way on the right hand side side you see what we call the coffee shop and that's on the corner of um Wu and cax and that that space wraps the corner so you get two fronts there which I think is similar to what the space is now correct and then when you continue down we have some utility space which is required to be able to um make the building function and then we have um a uh parking uh I think the exit on that floor the exit coming out onto ctax and then continuing past that the additional retail space has helped to kind of bridge that space that continues around and continue the retail space I know it isn't a huge quantity as far as square footage but it is a lot of linear square footage along the front of the road there are projects that we do where we have retail space and maybe it's long and skinny inside the building and then you get very little Street fromage I assume when you guys are talking about wanting retailing businesses on the on the ground floor what you're really speaking to is having that walk aille environment where people are walking down the street and there's Windows to look into and there's interesting things going on it's not just a bunch of um you know greates looking have parking on the other side and I think that the parking the retail here is really used to buffer the parking in addition to providing retail space and that's one of the reasons why it is linear and wrapping around onto Lakeside another question I got for you guys right now there's parking on the retail side would that be gone on the street on cax on uh Lakeside oh on the other side no on um I'm sorry CX so in front of the pizza pl all that there's parking there now is that not part of this plan or some obviously that whole strip all the way down to like the Ice Station is parking yeah this the plan is still showing the driveway entrance the rest is I guess the driveway driveway entrance right everything else you would still have the same parking correct can I ask the mention the utility room there is there a reason why it needs to be on the street front like that not interior or the back or first floor well T typically the utility companies drive a lot of the locations on that and um it's my understanding that the utility company is requiring us to have the electric meters they actually wanted them on the exterior face of the building but that would be quite unsightly so this protects them from yeah this agency will remember we had to actually come back and get Lakeside Commons plans revised they would not let us move forward without having on the outside I understand on the outside why could they be on the pawn hold side on the ground floor because you they can't enter through another um adjacent property they have to enter from the right away they usually don't want it going under the entire building and come out on the other side people will drive back there right if there's KN you will drive back there still have the right of way to right to get there that's a are you talking about the line being run or the access from the reading meter I think you've been suggesting moving this electric meter room with the Transformers right but the the electric company will probably not let us move the meters to where the the lines need to run um either through an adjacent property or or the power coming in the power coming in dict I that uh just no I appreciate the question we're all trying to find big chunk of if you remember with Lakeside also we had an issue with jcpnl and moving a telephone home yeah how about the other corner of the building by the other driveway agents yeah there if that has a good point we could get retail back in that spot where's that where the meters are retail that's that's a big and then you have that entire move the met the the Met need to be accessible from the road the tow going to come from the road well I suggesting is is there enough room to move these meters there right my my question is are they power from that side I don't know if the I don't I can't agree that the utility company will allow us to connect at that point I don't know where the utility runs hold on can you swear Bob please state your name spell your last Robert i s s do you swear or firm sorry do you swear or firm the testimony you'll give this evening for this agency will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth the help you got I do and Mr Weiss's previously qualified as an expert on this application yes okay yeah there's other utilities coming in that location as well there's the uh the Water Service um the um water gas electric and that I Le based on discussions with the utility companies was the most Lal and direct access into the building for um [Music] yeah cuz we were orig going to be coming in while for wanu but then it was decided that cack is where the utility should be coming in and that's the one location coming around to Lakeside I I'm not sure I I don't think the question was ever asked utilities to see if it's um possible com in down on Lakeside I believe it's a bit of a run I'm not sure what utilities exist in Lake Side I know se's coming up the back storm drainers coming up the back Gas Electric water assuming to be coming off that's why it's there and I believe they minimized required area but the electric meters were brought inside for obvious reasons and they and they were okay with bringing them inside they're not technically inside because the it's a room that is open to the to the outside that's right I not it's not interior he access so I'm not I'm not clear I know you Ratt off a bunch of stuff Utilities in the streets yes but you didn't ask them could it be in that other corner of the building is that something look talking about across the street from uh station they put in for the building across the street that's there's they can to that right move that right that is a big I mean if you look at the size of retail spaces right how much you're dedicating to Transformers and meters and that you have that entire you know Frontage there would be much nicer that entire Frontage than that losing that corner there if you what is it two parking spaces there now park strike and then the parking space just one space it's possible the room is 30 ft wide yeah the transfer was a lot of space I agree what you're saying about the retail and the frontage right and the windows the visibility not necessarily a deep retail but the road Frontage gain a lot there yeah but I don't see the space here for that this is a much bigger square footage biger yes what is that next to a staircase yes yeah would take additional parking that we can do that will do it's just I don't know that we can look at it but yeah it's probably about 20 25t wide we have a [Music] room so if you you in order to really get that I me then you have the Transformer room also those two rooms together are about 900 ft it's like one retail spot do the Transformers have to be adjacent to the right if you take both have a 900 can the meters be downstairs and the I'm sorry the Transformers downstairs and the meters upstairs I believe so as long as the utility company is aable so you can stack them and then you can use a space or two downstairs without moving your stairs we have an issue with flooding over there with the basement level parking flood potentially uh it's not called the is that may not be a good place to put the electrical unfortunately I don't know if the floods are it was a pond GI we also know okay let's get back on track I don't know if it's a flood it's a good question it's something to look [Music] into another option we can look into for the retail is is where the coffee shop is um and the uh pedestrian entry to the um the residen is that could go um adjacent to the Transformer room and the handicap parking the Transformer room can slide over to the right the coffee shop would be would be less deep um in the direction of uh WQ back toward Lakeside but you would gain the depth so get give it you still lose that frage with the Transformer R that's what we're trying to avoid right we're thinking that there's other places to there's another alternative not not to solof the Transformers I I think moving that entrance over that way is better anyway because that's a very long hallway for a resident to come in off the main street and have to walk all the way down that to get to the stairs or the elevator if you came off of kofax through the handicap parking that would greatly shorten your your walk that that one look so so that where you're where you have your Transformer room now it's something to think about because to me that's a prime real estate spot it's right on the corner it's right after your coffee shop or wherever it's going to be you know that's a pretty primed spot I understand you have your opening for your parking can't do anything about that but maybe there's a way to put some put retail there and put that somewhere else that's maybe something you want to look at [Music] and that would answer your retail concerns too how much retail would you get vacated almost [Music] a00 any by a few square feet would be the largest one of the parcels are [Music] there okay but again those levers will be missing other things maybe we solve one L if you can do this we have a parking L to talk about next hi Abby hello hi hi Abby you need to break a tie can I come 8:35 what are we talking about here we're talking about you haven't brought up the the total number of units with the parking I mean you're going to do that at some point but what is the total number of units with 51 yeah so we have got the total number of units um is I my wrong set for a second um we have 51 units total and 67 parking spaces 72 with e say that again please so we're getting credit for 72 spaces and um or 73 spaces rather 1.4 72 so just above 70 1. ra go the e one EV station no 10 51 units 6 67 regular Park and then 10 through the parking to get to the right okay thank you for that just talk about extending the retail okay thank you for the catchup so we we'll look at those items we we want to spend some time going through the other changes that were made to get feedback on it um our architect is right here so stick with her and allow her to go through the rest of her prepare comments All right so other areas we haven't talked about so far um on there uh the Lor PL um to the lower level you know what tell us where you're um on a201 I think we hit all those retail cases Shi get traff down to the low level that um and on the next sheet on a 2.02 unit count has gone from 14 to 12 in the Trel and the courtyard has been enlarged used to kind of um the building used to come in more like de sea and now it is opened up and um toward the pond hole and um there's been a uh a dog park add it as well on the courtyard level good and the two-bedroom unit that was um coming in toward the cor move side um this on the typical that's sorry this one is the that he's showing right now and then um this is the typical that he has open which is the second through fourth floor and this typical level has 13 units if prior it had 14 units um and the gym has been enlarged the gym is now 928 ft used to be 400t I say we count that as retail [Music] um and then uh switching over to the elevation um Sor there's no no changes on the following two sheets roof plan and unit layout Chang on those get them into the [Music] elevation now on page a 4.01 [Music] 4.01 official are you in the Civil plans [Music] yeah we can do it up here yeah on the screen so um the CX Avenue facade has been updated to include the new retail storefronts which we've discussed and signage we're asking for two more 45 foot signs on awnings to go with the new two retail spaces and on the whole Municipal parking facade side um we've updated it to match the building footprint and the adjustments to the and all that has been discussed in the renderings as well then um going back to the renderings next presented [Music] prior we have renderings from from this angle and then again [Music] propos are you proposing ating out of [Music] exit coming out [Music] [Music] here I I couldn't hear him yeah come up to the microphone Sor that's that's not so yeah I say coming out um you should have a safe enough distance to go either way left or right um the uh short distance from the intersection so I don't think it'd be a major traffic concern as far as so my only concern with that is during school hours there's a lot of kids driv that that yes um and making a right hand left hand turn there might be difficult at some in the early morning especially when they're leaving for I it might be easier just to make the right take cax to get 287 and then try to get maybe well they would go right out and then left on lake side yeah that's that will most likely be the fastest my make I'm just saying trying to make a out there at 8:30 and 8:15 when everyone's getting into school you trying to make a left on the Calla that traffic is already back up on that little corner there it probably best just to make a right out of there is it already uh you can't turn left from can you think a left if you come if you went out of this building made right on the cax or left on the lake side you can make a left yeah follow it around you can make a left back no you only make a right only make a right that's what suggest you but you could also go down cax and make a left somewhere 287 you get we we're fine with however the board thinks the same restri door C hours just a bus Corner any questions yeah this was a right that would kind of tie into what we did at Lakeside commment right cuz you can't can't go you can't go in that way I'm TR go out that way I go out that way towards the front of the high school you know try to keep the traffic away from right Lakeside you can't go out that way ever but that's when other parking is coming in but I don't know how many many people wouldn't be coming in during school hours I don't think we we thought not that's why we had the exit go out on cax and the entrance come in on L side okay probably should restrict that I would think and then the county will have its own regulations I spoke with count you have no no real driving ability on the county because everything's on Co you're really not coming out on one no I mean but the county has been known to look at how wue affects how this would affect L they good is a cax county also that's not not all of it you say of half of it is oh that's is not closer towards okay chairman any anything else for the architect for the architect Sor to come it's okay so how big was that do dog park put on it it's a component of the courtyard right it is a component of the courtyard I would I would estimate is probably around 40 or 50 ft long by 20 ft wide roughly okay so like 1,000 ft yeah um he's going to pull up theard so you can see bot that page and then and then how do you keep that like sanitary and that's well so the courtyard in general will be um it'll be a concrete Podium the whole that whole core level will be a concrete Podium that's part of the type of construction um the courtyard itself will be depressed vitally and we'll have drains uh within that slab above that there'll be pedestals and probably like a porcelain paper system and the uh the dog park will have a similar system designed to be used by animals um like I know there's some brand names that make them and uh they I don't know what they use to to make them but they're designed to um to be used by animals and have have waste on them and to um so it'd be like a Turf and then a drainage under the turf yeah yeah way to put that in there that was important you're going back to the park you're getting credit for for the EVS right correct but you're have you have how many E 10 spots 10 EVS correct and you had 65 six 67 par 67 total EVS are only for the EV or anybody could park there anyone park there one is required to be at the handicap space that can only be parked at by a handicap um by someone with a handicap plaque but the other TV spaces can be used by anybody but as as you've done in the other projects we are proposing that every unit the 51 of them will get one space assigned to them and release well so my my question would that's what I was leading up to where are your visitor spots or or you going to have it well we're showing 67 space 51 units are going to get their spaces and then the other 16 are going to be not assigned unless they purchased right but a lot of those 10 of those are the EV so theoretically they could have any EV in there right so that would leave seven really open mhm I'm just nervous that and we're running through this lak side one of things we learn from lak side people are parking in our pond hole because they don't have any space at Lakeside um and they're smart enough to know that we're not ticketing at when the new system come we up so they're not buying a pass so they're basically getting I don't want that same thing to happen here where people saying I have a second car spot P's open I'll just park in there you know that's what we have to are there on Street spaces they go parking are they being rented the on Space are working yeah they are working are they on Street yeah on Street you know they're they're the prime spots people want them the best because they're closest to the building so they go quick but I I went by there today 44 open in the afternoon sh par and um for the architect the um sidewalk on um you know on lake side and and um Cox how how wide is that is that the same a footprint are you using the same I'm not sure the Cil might be able to answer that question yeah we'll bring Bob Bob do you have [Music] have 10 ft from curve to building and what what is it now I'm sorry what is it now I think that's what you know yeah thank you for I keep forgetting when I'm scrolling up and down and look for the information that you're all seeing driving crazy and I okay well he's looking the I have another question the we I'm sorry 72t oh it's 7 and2 ft now currently that's where his name that's going can okay that's good okay good and and then um yeah that's good I'm noticing the the uh doors for retail okay they look like they're flush they they don't come in like they just open up and right onto the street they don't like indent like a they're not recess thank you for word yes that is how it's designed at this time that seems like a traffic issue for me like a foot traffic issue for me okay um the temple white sidewalk I don't think it'll be opening the door because you have to open the door out for Fire Reasons right so you're going to you know possibly open right to someone's face be coulds aren there there are warnings I mean they're Above This they're above the height but typically people who are through traffic walking we'll we'll walk a little bit away from the building most of our retail right now view is recessed and and most towns have recessed um entrance RS um for that's a good idea I don't think that's has to go very far we can certainly res that probably the WID of the door yeah that would be uh eye peeling and 20t yeah squ it does it is but but look at the towns look at look at towns I mean that are they are thriving towns I mean they don't have flush doors Point yeah before you came [Music] in I got it so is and this is an off question it's not for the architect or anything but are you offering retail space to your people that you have retail now are they getting get first priority question for ownership yes so I person they would get First Choice that's and how how much um how many retail um one two three there are four retail and how many are there currently [Music] s when they originally came there was about 26 2600 they increased it by 1300 so now we're back to about 39 so wait wait so we're down but we're still working on trying to get so Abby knows um no want I to go where you see over here on this where you see the electric meters yeah and the Transformer room um we're going to try to see if that can get moved somewhere else and that would open up another 950 ft of ril okay so so this how much we have four retail spaces and with a total of how many uh square feet 38 3900 okay 39 and what what's the 7,000 that was oh existing right if we move that if we can move the electric meters we would be up to about 4900 but there's going to be less because the problem is the garage door has to go somewhere the garage opening there's a garage [Music] open 20 F it's 20 ft wide enough yeah it's one wide Steve what what how are you addressing the co obligation at this moment uh four units plus contributions in accordance with the ordinance okay but we don't have H we don't have a signed agreement from three so I already had a meeting recently with the groups involved they don't know what to do with that we have an agreement the judge agreed on it but he just dragged his feet and never signed it who's he what's his name the judges the judge you don't have a signed agreement you don't have a signed so you're in South Brunswick one of the bad boys but we had an agreement he agreed to the agreement but didn't sign and now there's new stages I can't but you've been operating under those terms for all your other projects yes that's what we have been doing um but but we had a meeting and there was some discussion about which route they're going to take for the new system because we're not there yet but those numbers going to be so that could change I I just want to make you aware of that I don't know that what we've typically done is said that you have to require whatever is required so whatever they're going to do so if that changes so it's probably not going to be a hard bet number it'll be something but no matter what it is what the the requirement pursuant to a settlement you'd have to satisfy that we'll discuss that that's if we get to that point that's open [Music] ended what do talk about the EAS um we haven't decided we we we can't do anything with that the only thing we can do with the easement is either make a recommendation to the mayor and Council that they approve it um don't make a recommendation or that's it that's the all choices but I don't think we're going to get that part because I think there's other things we want to see if you want to take the time to I do yeah I U revise what we talk about if there are other questions for the architect I'd like to just talk about the Civil changes um whatever we haven't discussed with okay just one the the um material on the facade is it like real brick or is it half brick or or is it no brick at all looks like and and is that also um brick and what's the other material uh brick and stco and yes be brick um and stco and and some preast lentils although the main body will be St okay and then stco what do like I I don't think stco has always been like well thought of um well let's stop it not eat this okay so not from is is there like Cement Products that are more durable or is this a a cement product okay this the better oh yeah um just before we do that can we open it up to the public if they want to have any questions for the architect anyone from the public want to have any questions for the architect see none will close the public portion for the architect Bob you've been sworn in you're under oath you've been qualified you've answered a ton of questions I will just ask you address the board with whatever other changes that haven't yet come up on the Civil side of this very little change from the Civil side cently relating to the parking we u you Call believe something prior um some concerns of exiting out we make that is going to be an home uh the exit is going to come out of the cax as we um discussed uh there's some tree skapes that we've had along the uh the roads along cfax along lak side one tree along U WQ um we have the uh the counts we end up with a 1.4 ratio of parking for uh per unit reduction obviously from 56 to 51 units those architectural uh so everything else pretty much remain the same with proposing obviously drainage out to P drainage system uh there L of the cases the existing sewers that we orig showed and it's not remain unchanged um and that's primarily it we we did talk about the two un two space reduction uh in hardle parking that exists now that would be required for our access to the lower level I think that's the extent of the parking went through the super Department with a number unit counts um that's it from a perspective you just want to highlight what we don't comply [Music] with be looking for uh rear yard required 10 ft Clos 0t in the rear yard set back U the building coverage 75% is pered with proposing 97% building coverage uh and the last prvious coverage we are are proposing 100% versus 5% uh last is the numberers 36 versus the three um permitted 6 ftus 45 permitted so would be costs and those will be required because those would not be able to be uh sought of deviations they Dev variances in height where where theight but not the other ones correct but if we're we're making a recommendation change the plan we say do it all do you have a list of the variances that if you look at the site plan in the zoning analysis they're marked with Asis four of them what um what page okay so it's the only engineer plan [Music] she right see my cursor okay I think I just see I think I found so it's going to be zero yard setback 97% building coverage 100% impervious and 68 ft 6 [Music] stories yes we also need a park well we do have but we also need a [Music] so they want height [Music] height six stories is that from back of the building no that's it's how your ordinance defines include the lower [Music] level yeah so three is allowed okay let's do one at a time get while they're looking for that I agree with you you know we got to try to got that 100% coverage that's a big number you need some well a lot of it has been um we have the atrium uh which is green basically inside the the court yard area that's open to the sky that is green as grass that will be considered that's not included in your cup so why is it 100% if that's open um it's was the building basic cover that area we just you know it's like an offering to show that is going to be green space whether it's the building so it's it's considered techn building coverage but will be building coverage but the courtyard mitigates the impacts of the coverage but also the sidewalks are included in that calculation as well that's but isn't there part of the sidewalk has some space in it for trees and green yeah so that's within the rway right that's only it's all in the right way there's none of it on your property no the side goes right up to the building and the cutouts for the trees are all the right they count so you have no trees on your prop correct the Green Space where the what's going on in your roof the highest roof the so we have um 68 ft from the oh sorry do you want me to answer on the roof yes the roof the roof is just going to have drainage okay and may have a couple um I'll check to see what we've shown on here but typically they have a couple rooftop units to service um any uh ten in space you have a couple a couple rooftop units shown and hatch to access it's a regular roof yeah so when we have a situation where there's 100% coverage and there's constraint one option and I don't know how this agency feels about it is that we require a green roof and calculate that differently give them a bonus for coverage or something I'm talking about an intensive green roof um that meets sto yeah there's still storm water infiltration whatever else that is one way that it can be R I've done the okay excuse me I mean it doesn't give you the benefit of ground level enjoyment but it takes care of the storm water issues the storm water issues and the courtyard is going to be green green yes it's going be also yes green and intensive green are two different I get that yeah and then we B Be drainage obviously involve a b because it's you know a surface that's within the building so we be drainage Incorporated with that obious all connect to existing in the courtyard which is where pretty much all the existing that's a good idea that's a very good idea I was going to ask a question then forgot so thr by the great I yes exactly oh I know um when I look at the building and for the life me it's just one of these things I can never remember the um the technical ter for it um the air conditioning vents PEX yep PEX those will be the color of the building not white we will be consistent with all the other approvals we will match them and all vent it to the roof all all dryer venting everything's in the vent so these will be basically invisible and there'll be no vents it'll be painted to match the brick color match the stle color and maintain okay so you know like I I know we're doing this in in um the meridian and Lakeside but is it a cheap way or you know to to do I me is it a good way to do it to be um PX as as an alternative to Central yeah I mean it's a cheaper way to do it yeah I mean but is it like loud in like in hotel room can be really loud is like what is it like inside the building with that ke T it's pretty standard for all the projects that I'm doing at this point yeah I've noticed that but I haven't noticed that in every like when I ride through other towns I don't see that um all the time just I've never had somebody come up to me and say I have them in my unit and they're horrible heard noise GL but that's only atal yeah I mean I we are having them and I don't really the only experience I have with them is in an inexpensive Hotel so I'm just wondering are they are they how do we find them does anybody have any kind of background information cuz we're putting them in L's been up for many years now had any complaints well happen think weend anyway oh you got plenty of complaints from people we did but not that but does anybody does nobody has any any background information I can tell you that we use them in some of departments I have they they they don't last as long as Central a so they they they crap out much quicker and as they get older just like any air conditioner year they get a little l i mean that's just normal wear a tear as an air conditioner but when they start off they're pretty quiet um are you thinking about loud from inside or loud from outside well both but I don't notice them from the outside that I'm usually in a car when I'm running by Lakeside um meridian's not up and running and and when um you're in a hotel room um they can be loud are you talking about the noise you hear from the outside both I mean I'm ask like I know from the inside it can be loud yeah the inside it can I don't know about I don't I haven't heard out noise outside but I haven't listened I just you know we have just been approving them and and we don't really have any background on so I just wanted to like see if maybe we should kind of look into to that is that really is that a good thing okay are I don't know I don't know I don't know about the noise I know that in other towns we've certainly done what they're suggesting that they will do which is to camouflage them in side um because they aren't great looking when they aren't camouflage um but I mean I've never heard anybody say anything about the noise but that's just like anal also right right that's when they're camouflage and you're not looking for them you don't really see right no no but I but I just want to make sure they're not like you know I what's the standard in in the industry are they like low standard high standard medium standard I mean like what are we pretty market now just because of of the cost has considerably you know is considerably cheaper than than a of um central air and then I haven't heard the complaints that really just happened okay I mean and so it's just to CL I mean I think maybe if anybody knows a way to to like Reach Out we've already approved um 300 of them right so um I just want to make sure we're approving good stuff so anyway a thought I I think a big Improvement is the dog park you know because the one thing we missed on the on the first Lakeside project and they're going to put one in and now you know we don't want people walking their pets at the high school I can tell you that that's a that's a big deal for us right now and people are complaining about that so I would hope the residents would take use of what you're building going to other areas you know and doing it but definitely we don't want them walking on the high school as a as a place to that's the first green spot you see once you get out of those build I believe Lakeside put something in because I drove through the parking lot there's a thing with doggy bags and stuff like that there there so can trve okay anything else for the super engineer just for questions okay going to open up to the general public before the Civil Engineer anyone have any questions for the engineer seeing none we'll close the public portion on that thank thanks okay so now we do can we do general questions anybody has just generals no okay um I'll th up for general questions um about the project for the experts for the attorney um anyone has any com have any comments on it com yeah okay I see you back a seat so one you [Music] guys question about the RO I know you're going to have a green roof on that what is the longevity on that roof and when it's replaced is there a requirement to replace the same roof what can you do with at the green roof and you just put a regular roof on I do do you know what the longevity is they're long they're long what regardless of what the longevity is it's it's long but you can always make a like a deep restriction or something that says it has to be maintain in perpetuity well if we're doing it for flood not for flood but what for reasons I would think that we should perpetuate that and keep that throughout the life of the building because all too often I see projects when they modify after five to 10 years or 15 years we'll modify something that was approved by a board and then it's changed down the road and it doesn't me to there there would be some sort of restriction that talks about maintenance that talks about perpetuity all that sort of stuff would be incorporated so what would have to get tied into this whole thing manual operation and maintenance manual that would be tied to the D so if this building would ever be sold whoever buys it at that time not only get whatever D restrictions are there eement it also will have the operation manual and also with the green roof if you picture The Green Roof it the the maintenance that would have to be required with it whatever that would be with what gets designed and installed would be similar to what let's say cfish goes in all right there's there's maintenance requirements for that nobody sees that that's underground this no one's going to see it's up on the roof except for people that go up on the roof so what about the main that who's responsible for inspecting that the C probably uh so the way it's the way that the storm water requirements are the we we would probably tie it into that is the building owner responsibility to certify it every year submit it to the town the town reviews it and now they would have to then submit that with their called the tier a permit the the yearly tier a permit that goes into D for all the town's storm water management facilities um that that's a requirement I get put into all the uh planning board plans when it ultim gets approved um this would be no different than anything else than if somebody did underground storage tank or U or a pond or a basin or anything it's just tomato SM and I always agre to this the annual certification as a condition we can put it in the Declaration so fails to funun for it's intend purpose where does that water get dumped into our regular storm water system so yeah that's where it ties out well ultimately ultimately when it's designed that's probably where it would tie out too if it fails just like anything else that would fail storm water wise it would go back to the owner of in this case the building the lot and everything and they would have to remedy it as part of their on manual it's up to them to fix it but but to be clear so we the green group is a new suggestion and we're we're happy but we don't need that to satisfy the storm water requirements we've already shown that but that stor is going to end up in the bondle system yes that's right right because we just we just did a project down there to relieve an issue and I just want to make sure we're not going to confound that with another building now it's going to dump more water into that space that we corrected hopefully to properly drain on your the the ex dreams to that location so including targets uh we're introducing some let you say the [Music] [Music] [Applause] thanks anyone else have any questions about the project see none we'll close the portion okay so I just want to recap where we are the discussions we had what what we will do is we will analyze that area where the Transformer and meters are and we will come back to you with whatever we think we can do and we will do our best to try to make additional retail space we will move that that uh what I'm showing on the screen that little walkway access which I think we all agreed that that may be a good idea um we'll we'll look at recessing the retail spaces as suggested uh and we will come back other than those items that oh well the other things we agree to yeah the green roof and and yeah for sure um I want to be clear that when we come back with those items changed we're going to ask for a vote of some kind is there any other thing or any other thought or or Quest um we've been here many times we want to come back and we want to get home CU we have then several Council meetings several planning board meetings to then follow through on on the project so did I summarize accurately everything that we're looking to no I think it's right I think everything you said is spot on and um you've certainly been flexible with us and you've been great taking our suggestions so um I think I think it's all covered thank you just going down one yeah I I mean I I definitely think from what you talked about I know we talked a little bit more about parking kind of how to work that out whether to buy parking spots or re some whatnot but we're going to come in we're we're just we're going to come in with the request for the easement and if the council I guess I hear the way the Redevelopment agreement could be written uh with with Andy is is the flexibility on that either an easeman or removal of the lot or something the general we don't have to come back yeah okay yeah I think it would it would be the ability to to get 39 whatever the parking spaces down there are either through an easement or purchasing or leasing combination the ability to get those and access them Y and where does mu stand this yeah sorry the MUA where do we stand with the MUA on this Pro um I think we initially made it's been a while since we sewer Serv capacity avilable done an analysis and I don't remember exactly what council president theine so I don't know if you guys are aware for years the MUA had said there was plenty of room plenty of of work and Sewer well they did an actual study now and the survey and Sewer capacity is limited to about 150 more units roughly roughly okay not everything that we're building now is in that process it's already in so we're talking about new contracts moving forward okay one once you reach that 150 or whatever that number is could be 140 could be 170 whatever that number is then it's going to be a renegotiation with developers on how we fix that property is that just sewer or water LS just sewer right now um so I would suggest and that's a good point that Council V brought up you want to meet with the MUA as soon as you can just to iron that out we and then my concern is like we need to really I think you're part of the concern but the concern for this board is that we really need to know that number because we're approving things without a a grand scheme of things they given us a number that they have so it's it's roughly 150 smaller units so this is how many units 51 so we'd have like about 100 units left I mean I just I think the scope of the the project is kind of large for the area and so that is my concern has been my concern the whole time I I do like the fact that you're going to maybe address the roof and um assess the retail space and um sidewalks and sidewalks are a little bit larger um you know it's just it's a very large building once [Music] again very large the scale is large I'm okay with everything that's said well thank you all so I I have just one you're going to look at and it's not for this board right now but it's something to keep in mind about the ramp removing the ramp buying less spots see if we can give you more spots you know there's a couple options there you know don't put all your apples in one barrel right now let's let's look at the right way how we going to do this maybe have a backup plan if each one of them doesn't work right um because I think that that that is key to this whole project in my in my op um and that's going to be a cancel vote so that recommendation or not they're still going to want to know those answers thank you all very much great appreciate it thank good job see thank you okay we had no newer unfinished business um we're going to go into executive session you have a resolution I have resolution resolution authorizing session so was qu and who else Ken Ken Ken oh do we have we're we're still in the session though than so there's nobody here from the public right you can open to the public right we'll open it again to the public anyone from the public wishing to speak see seeing none we'll close the public portion do we have a motion to adour motion second all in favor I thank you sorry was a late one good