##VIDEO ID:IKgSivQebrw## for being patient um formal written advance notice as required by njsa 10-4 has been provided of this meeting at least 48 hours in advance of today giving the time date and location and to the extent known at the time the agenda of this meeting such notice um sorry lost my voice I shouldn't done Noti by heart such um notice stated that formal action may or may not be taken the notice was posted on the bulle board outside the office of the municipal clerk reserved for this and other similar announcements provided to the Suburban Trends the newspaper designated by the burough Council to receive such notices and filed with the burough Court can we stand for a pledge please plg to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all may we have a roll call please yes Mr Silverstein here Mr Quigley here miss Novak here Mr Ross here Dan is absent Mr Kimberlin is absent um councilman Von's absent we have mayor Sarah Mr Glenn Dominic Mr O'Brien and in place of Christin Russell we have Nick Dickerson cool we're good okay um we have first order of business is approval of the minutes for the regular meeting of August 15 2024 can we have a motion please move they move we have a second moved and seconded um all in favor I anyone opposed anyone voting present okay good correspondence there's actually two items of Correspondence the first is from um Panic um just informing us that um they're doing an amendment to the master plan reexamination report doesn't give us any indication of what they're examining but we got the notification um the other one that um I was asked to read to you is um from Dean um chopa um dear Andy um I hope this letter finds you well I'm writing to formally tender my resignation from the Redevelopment agency of Pompton Lakes effective September 9th 2024 it's been a privilege to work with such a dedicated and passionate group of individuals in contributing to the development of our community however due to other commitments I am no longer able to fulfill the responsibilities required by this committee I truly appreciate the opportunity to have been part of this initiative and value the experiences and relationships I have developed during my tenure I'm confident that the committee will continue to make significant progress in achieving its goals please let me know if there's anything I can do to assist in the transition during this period I wish the committee and its members continued success in the important work being done thank you once again for your opport for the opportunity and understanding so do we need to accept this resignation or be approprate to have a motion to accept it okay do we have a motion motion you have a motion do we have a second second any discussion I would just like to thank Dean for his service on the committee um he um you know always provided us with um you know information that we may or may not have um come across or gotten on our own especially in in regards to Fire and safety and things of that nature um and I think will miss his Insight on applications and will'll miss his dedication to the um to the agency he was a a valued member so with that um do we have a roll call U just a all in favor I I anyone opposed okay okay we have no conceptual presentations so let's get right to it um first one up is 61q Avenue realy LLC 60 WQ Avenue pton Lakes block 2400 Lot 1 Zone D A-1 hi Steve hi Andy um you all know that this has been in front of us more than once um and has been in the works for a quite some time um I will um certainly give the applicant credit for persevering with the county of pic which is enough to make you grow hair so so anyway Steve um thank you Mr chairman members of the board could be before you again for the record Steve melenic from the LA fir of greenbound R Smith and Davis here on behalf of 61 aqab TLC uh as the chairman indicated this is a continued hearing uh we were before you um quite a bit ago and at that time we presented the concepts for development that ranged between 17 units and 23 units which is dependent upon the acquisition of parking rights from Bay County uh That Remains the case uh what where we left that meeting was there open questions regarding uh the Ingress and egress as it relates to wanu Avenue and the the County planning board as the chairman indicated that has been uh some Journey to get through bade County and I'm happy to report uh that after some time we do have now as of September 3rd uh conditional approval from the county uh we also as you may recall have approval already from d uh for for all the permits that we're going to make related to this application so we now back before you um and because it has been some time and because some adjustments to the plans have been made in regard to comments that were made by pay County our intent tonight is to present both uh the engineer the architect and once again bring a traffic expert just really mostly in case there are question we want to be complete um and then at the conclusion of that our ask tonight is going to be a vote to approve the project uh as designed um and then to direct uh Mr Brewer and I to complete negotiations of Redevelopment agreement that I've already submitted a draft of to Mr Brewer um as well as recommendations that we would ask you to make to the council uh which include amendments to the Redevelopment plan which are necessary here uh as well as a recommendation for a financial agreement and we have also submitted to Mr Brewer uh the Project's Financial perform uh so with that I would ask the Project's uh engineer to come up per I think you need to sign back in on this perhaps I just have one question just so we're all on the same page are we doing this based on 17 or 23 so yeah so the project is designed to include 26 parking spaces on site which if that is how it remains would yield a 17 Unit project um and would be three stories in height however as you may recall we are in negotiations with pay County which has property just down the road in fact um we have a meeting with them scheduled for October 15th to continue those negotiations and if we are successful in acquiring uh in perpetuity because we know that's important uh eight parking spaces from a say County to be developed um and that would yield a ratio that would allow 23 units so our ask here is for an approval of either 17 units or 23 units depending on whether we are able to secure those eight units and the Redevelopment agreement that I've drafted reflects that okay and we were from what I remember from the last time we were okay with doing it that way we of approving it that way we could you could approve it there it's going to have to be decided I think by the time he goes to the planning board you could approve a variety of things yes okay the building footprint the building site layout is is identical in either versions it's really just whether it's a additional store and six more units I just ask question will you have an answer from the county I mean when will you have you think you'll have an answer for the county I would I don't know I can't promise we'll have an answer on October 15th but we'll at least be in a position to answer that question when we think we'll have an answer certainly as as Andy said we will need to have that answer by the time we go to planning board and I've had you know had a chance to start to look Redevelopment agreement I don't think there's any way that this board will be in position to approve it before the meeting that's October 17th anyway and that's on the early side hand it back over all right very good okay U see to my right is Marvin Bon who is the engineer in the project I'll ask he be sworn in and then we can give his cren please state your name spell your last uh Marvin R lethan B e t h n you swear affirm the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you out I do all right uh you haven't been before this board so I'll ask you to provide your education and qualifications for the board uh 40 it's hard to say that 44 years as a professional engineer wow uh multiple States 17 States registered uh I've uh done projects and probably 15 16 States uh a lot of mining projects a lot of civil projects designed a golf course in Alabama uh but I've uh testified before a lot of the county boards up here uh moris County ess6 County a lot of the uh uh municipalities also in Southern New Jersey templand Salem I think I think all right so you're you qualified as a professional engineer I'd ask you have the screen and you have controls of the site plan that is on the screen that the board and the public can see I would just ask you to walk board through real quickly the site plan that you designed okay I took over the engineering project uh in January February this year uh to see what was going on uh 612 Avenue Redevelopment uh on the uh lot where the proposed development going be block 2400 lot one uh if we look at what we have as the existing there's a there's a a building that's sighted on there it's mostly uh paved areas couple of stor sewers into it right on the corner of Grove Street uh oneq Avenue uh what we had before us was the New Jersey d uh as far as getting all the permits and requirements from them and after that was taken care of then designing the site around what the requirements were for the D permit and we handle all those type of issues uh the issue that we had uh for you is a is a demolition plan there the only demolition on there is the pavement that is existing in the existing buildings uh and some curving uh around the corner of Grove of one you add uh what we want to do is on the site plan uh we'll have the proposed oneq four story TW 23 unit or or whatever is approved uh it it's backed up and going before the P County planning board the one of the problems that we had to do was which which was with their RightWay issues uh making left turns on oneq Avenue making right turns out of on Grove Street because that is all in the uh in the faic county uh right away uh so they had a lot of comments seven or eight months of comments uh on the technical issues of this thing uh making sure we have no left turn coming out of the site onto WQ Avenue so that is a right turn only uh coming out of the site uh where the uh parking lot buts up against the county right away uh there were some twoot overhang issues there so we had to address some of those issues uh they had some concrete sidewalk issues and Landscaping issues on the oneq side of the parking lot uh We've dealt with all those uh coming out of uh the site on the Grove Street doing a right only because Gro street is a oneway uh Road intersecting oneq Avenue at a a stop signal uh we had to make sure that the you know the site distances were right there uh because they wanted to make sure that you could do the left hand turn on oneq Avenue and the right hand turn on oneq Avenue coming out there we had to make sure we did the vehicle tracking to make sure it worked right uh in fact I was out there personally before the meeting just to make sure that it works right because sometimes computer renderings don't really you know do it justice so I make sure I was in my f you know F-150 pickup truck which is in the model make sure that I can see and make the turn you know you can make the turn and stop and and find the stop light uh so that was some of the issues that the county had as long as some as well as some of the storm issues on the property because the storm drainage that runs through the property uh actually drains uh starting at Grove Street and actually comes through the property if you can look at the uh site plan in front of you now for the utilities uh it actually drains from Grove Street uh uh through the curb grates goes through the property uh there's an existing storm drain that goes down into the uh River area uh with the building in sight uh we had to make sure that we put uh a new manhole out there to capture the storm water the the rest of it will stay in place so as far as the storm water goes and and C County was was okay with that uh just to make sure that the the outlet for the existing storm drain was not blocked up and it's clear uh and make sure that the uh everything that comes off of it goes into that other than what's you know the D says on the outside of the outside of the project site my property lines so everything was fine there uh finally got them to review it uh looking at it uh and they said everything was fine a couple little conditions uh as far as the uh the site goes it's a very tight site uh the parking lot uh is uh according to specif occasion for the 9t by the 18t 24t uh uh width the dumpsters out there uh we have all the sight back the sight lines as far as the traffic goes uh one thing that they wanted to make sure on uh from the county level also was that being a leftand turn uh from oneq Avenue on the it's just just a divided intersection two lanes two lanes so they'll make sure you do the left tank turn the sight distance back toward the bridge was right for the stopping distance to make sure that somebody could see somebody turning a left into off one2 Avenue and the site distance works there I done the calculations and actually stopped my car on WQ Avenue nobody was behind me to make sure what the distance was you could see where the car would be turning into into the site so there's no issue there as well as the uh issue of turning out onto Grove Street so County was satisfied with all the planning uh as far as the the layout I know that goes to the Redevelopment goes to the city planning board but once again they were looking at a lot of the uh traffic issues a lot of the drainage issues uh a lot of the lightway issues Landscaping site distances landscape had to remove some bushes and stuff like that uh but as far as the actual planning goes uh th those were those were things that need to be addressed on that level the building did not change the parking lot changed a little bit because we had to do the EV parking uh and once again they're discussions with the county uh on some of those spaces uh but right now we have 26 spaces uh for the amount of uh building that we have uh one two possibly four EVS but at least two uh uh handicapped parking places uh curving is is you know all according to the county standard so everything everything's been corrected that the county was looking at so as far as what the planning would be that that is the typical plan so if there's any concerns or questions or something I did not cover that needs to be looked at from a site plan standpoint and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you have anyone have any questions no I mean I think you given a great explanation um I I think the county it's just amazing how much time it took them to do this we're not through with them yet we have conditional approval we're going to meet those conditions okay we'll talk about what those are are there any from what you went over are there any conditions appr so the conditions so yeah so the what the conditions are is we need to obviously so as as Marvin said the ESS onto Grove Street goes through the county right away so we need to negotiate and and get approved the easement from the county uh that goes through that we don't anticipate an issue there um there is uh as Marvin mentioned there was we needed to satisfy to their engineer satisfaction that the stopping the the distance between right there where the cursor is uh down to where the curve on wanu is is efficient we've provided that we we see no reason why that's not going to be accepted and then there was a condition that we had to uh make an offer of an access easement to the owner of lot two uh to access their property uh through ours as you can see on the site plan there is a parking space there that is proposed uh for us to develop at our cost that could be used by the owner of Lot 2 as you may recall from the last hearing that lot doesn't actually have any parking on site and Grove Street itself does doesn't have parking on street um we actually learned at the planning board for the county which I didn't know the history there that that actually is a situation that was created when the bridge was built by the county there years ago uh so they've been parking in the county right away without any legal rights to do so and accessing it through our property which U Mr sujan has has you know been allowing um but as a condition of the county approval we said we would offer an access EAS to latu and we have done that so where where are there two spaces one space uh being so if you Marvin on the cursor you can show where we're designing that to be there oh it's right there yeah front of the 20 in front of their proper 20 by 8ot that you if you see that rectangle just south of that cursor that's their building okay yeah the building's back here this is part of their so that's that's that's a parallel space it would be par which is and that gives enough room for it's a 20ft space so there's plenty but for that that's the exit right there exit right on to it yeah so the the access eement would actually allow them to come in through wanu Avenue and Traverse our property and no cost to them to access that space that we'll will build you'll be coming in and parking front from over they'll come in from over there correct yeah and they'll be parking by that Arrow yeah and there's enough room for everybody to get in and oh it's a it's a fully sized space 20t length looks good okay and they have a business too so where where do they where will their business um that that's that'll be for them I mean that's that's the way it exists now you know that's our concern they probably park across the street because because that's a viable business right now so I mean well they don't have any rights to park anywhere now so where do they Park they Park in the county RightWay or they Park on or they Park on their property yeah but sometimes when I get my haircut right read is right there I park across street not by St but in that parking lot or they're going to have to park in the street parking lot WQ down down the road down the road you mean across the bridge and down the not down not down grook street uh on Wan whereabouts on Wan is downtown Oh you mean like cross the bridge and by the tra that doesn't seem viable yeah but I think in all do in all fairness to to this property owner right right that that mean that building was bought with no when they bought it there was no parking well I think if I remember cuz it's been a a year may okay so if I remember the U there was no curbs back in the back in the day so people just parked along the edge there so I mean are you rendering that property not valuable anymore no I and I I I think we're actually doing them a great service we're building them a parking space which doesn't exist now if somebody were to buy that property right they have no legal parking anywhere uh now they would be given an access easement including the easement to use that space in you know that were developing plus access through a lot um I I don't know that that I think the way you put that is right because if if the property owner did not allow this easement to go through and the way the county wants the um the um the traffic flow it would be very difficult to get even to that space correct it would be impossible right basically one way one way you have go down by way backing around and and I should also add that don't forget they're building the county project around is that going forward that's yeah started working on it actually um so I'm hoping you know that's something that may be a communication between that property owner and the county to say hey look during the day can we use some spots you know one or two spots I think that would be a good compromise it's a lot of spots they have in that other area that might help them out that's discussion they should have with with the county and I'd help them do that um because uh that project is hopeing to get done in less than a year so they should have that done and as you may recall having when we were here last time the owner was here and did comment and and John's commitment at the time is we happy to work with you and this we think is a great result okay okay okay good so if there no other questions for the engineer we can bring the architect up okay very good good job [Music] may recall Brian was the architect last time we'll ask him to be swor again okay speak your name spell your last Brian co co any1 you swear to affirm the testimony of this evening before this agency will be the truth to whole truth nothing but the TRU to help you got I do he's been previously accepted as the project architect here so we'll get right into it if you can just provide a a refresher for for the board and the public as the architects in the project sure um I'm starting up the ren up on the screen here so the building is set this uh the rear of the property the south of the property the north of property you have one qav see the bottom triangle right here Grove on this side and this is the adjacent neighbors property this will be the parking spot we're just talking about in the front here so the building we're proposing is uh a three Bay residential structure it's got two uh two side Bays of chat protrusion for uh window bays and the center Bay is the entry Bay so it gives you a full covered full covered uh awning as you come in it has uh lobbies going up and a uh decorative arched window in the center uh materially this hasn't changed since the last meeting um but actually sorry the materials have changed no plans have changed from the uh the building so previously we had uh different Stone material in the center and uh we had cabor sing on the sides we we uh were asked to explore new materials to the last board meeting so we uh look through different extra materials and uh settle on brick and uh PVC cladding uh to reflect more buildings in the area is is what we s on the uh side Bays each have these can levered box Bays which has Windows and and as you can see it's hard to see with the clarity on this screen but uh we'll see later in the render in the elevations building that uh we have uh areas for the air conditioning events that was another comment from meeting that they should be indicated on fear and we we showed them on here very hard to see but we can see them on the elevations as we power okay uh the center Bay is 50 ft high but the majority of the building around uh the entire building is about 40 ft above and Brian what what they're looking at now is the 23 unit the four story correct design correct four stories 10 uh 10t four Flor three story so if we were to imagine the three-story building it would just be just like the middle floor cut out just give it a haircut right okay it would still have the same Arch top be the middle cut out okay yep good thank you and that's the exit right there the entrance yep entrance yep no I'm saying for the the road itself oh yeah yeah that that white square is the existing building so that's the exit out right you have to make a entr is not on your drawing right now uh it's over there it's over there pull the next view no not in this there you go there go there that's the entrance so garbage enclosure here um you you would enter in through here and parking lot entry and the building rure on the back side of the the property here here's a view from the rear of the building so the rear of the rear of the building um backs up to the rear of the property here is the neighboring property um building uh the materials in the back would be cab siding um be a cement board and the center Bays um highlighting here would be PVC clad uh window box bace match up front another view from the rear okay so that that's the back this is the far back yeah it's it's hard to get cuz it's kind of that in looking at this and I don't mean to be thick about it is is the building rectangular no no okay that's what yeah we'll see kind of a fasted building to just follow the here's a view from the street uh photoshopped in so you you can see the neighboring property here Grove Street and we're on water is that the Landscaping that the county ask for in the front there or is that just you putting that this is just us putting it in just proposed okay so what just so we can get everything together what would be the Landscaping that the county is going to approve or that they approved they they approved the areas there was no specifics in terms of that that'll be deferred to this plan board you mention something about I thought you me yeah I thought you did mention something about the county um landcaping yeah yeah Mar if you want to touch on that a little bit if there's the question yeah we had a list of the uh yeah the items the I mean why we looking for that my guess would be is they want low low type um yeah it was all low type uh we have the plant schedule on the uh the lighting and Landscaping uh uh drawing uh they had some issues with the sight triangle uh doing a uh right turn on the WQ Avenue so we had actually take out some Bayberry bushes to make sure they were like 3 or 4 foot had to remove a couple of get a site like this mostly 3 or 4T planings in the front as indicated in the dra right so no trees on that front side no right that's those are mostly bushes on the front low low bushes uh trees in the back Tre on the side okay actually Point down quick question while you're there can you go back to your photo of the outside of the building please yeah where BS are you thinking of putting the EV stations you you said EV stations for charging yeah there's a EV stations planned on either Corner if necessary one uh two EV stations uh on the far right parking spot uh which would be uh here on the one left hand side of the building these two here okay one uh one would be a a ada8 parking spot and the other is a regular parking spot on the end and then on the other end where the trash disclosure is uh to stations perfect if that's for the require so they're not on the road that's what get now that's I'm get thank you perfect thank you I just have question since we are working on drafting as we go yes the elevations all these will be part of the plans that you're agreeing to build they can be they can be incl attachments to the re they're looking at them and I want to make sure they're getting what they're looking so just following up on that just I'm speaking from the council side and our side when you present the final plan to the council will you know the height already or you will still not know that no we know the height no I'm saying three fours four it can't it's going to go to the first they have to do the size of the building has to be determined before it goes to the planning board we're going to if we approve it we're going to approve it as 23 or 17 dependent so at the planning board level though they would know at that point what the Yeah so perhaps not by the council because the next step would not be the plan the next step if if this board would approve it would be a recommendation to the council to amend the Redevelopment plan and and in that Redevelopment plan we would be asking for the height that would allow for the four stories okay and kind of there will also be before the council again for approval of the the financial agreement which they want so that's that's going to be based on a number of units that's projected so can back into that correct how many SS you going to have well I'll let you guys work out the Redevelopment agreement but should should that Redevelopment agreement have either I'm just going to do it simply four story or three story that's what it'll say so when it gets to the council it'll have that that in it this agency would be okay with either either this is just I mean you maybe you answered this a year ago but why do you have no retail on the bottom of the projects too small to accommodate that in this area just you know I'm looking at Riverdale and I'm sure you all have driven by on hamb Turnpike and they have one floor of retail and one floor of housing why can't palton Lakes do that well I I would agree with you except the fact that that project didn't have retail to begin with there was no and and also remember we've got a shopping center across the street yeah but but you know we have like the rivers behind it you're not using um I don't know like what's I think loading may be an issue as well loading there's no rear there's no rear access vehic I I'm just like are we making the best use of this property well considering what it is now I think well better than what it is but it's not I mean I'm not loving it I'm not loving it I think it's not a nice looking Pro I don't think it does anything for Pices I don't think it it's like I think I asked for something that would be like reflective of um like maybe Colonial or you know back in the day Pompton Lakes there's nothing Charming about this this I'm sorry to be blunt but I'm being blunt it doesn't it doesn't wow me so I'm asking why would I vote this I think the answer you and that's you know everyone has the pr preference on how they want to see it is but I think leaving an empty shell of a gas station sitting there for the last 20 years well that's true but I mean can we do better I I don't know if we can do better if somebody come in and want to do that and put the money in for retail and not get the money out of the build not I think the other thing you have to take into consideration is if you do something with if they wanted to do something with retail you're really limited with the parking again because there's going to be more parking requirements right and then you're going to have a mean you don't have the ability to say okay and I know what they like in Bloomingdale they built but they built that building long ways down the side there's no front on the street okay the apartments run backwards it's a long deep property um this property is pretty difficult to work with Okay so I mean I think I just you know there's a lot of fact we can talk about the Aesthetics in a second but there's a lot of factors that go against re I mean John if you want to comment a little bit on the retail John tier as well and he can be sworn sworn in um but aesthetically um Mr back my my recollection is we changed the design of this based on a lot of comments you made at the last hearing obviously we didn't do it we didn't do it the way you yeah I don't see I don't see my input in there look Aesthetics are either behold you right um the property you we're not asking for changes to the Redevelopment plan for the use this was a contemplated use under your master plan your Redevelopment plan for this property right but you are I think it was um two stories and now you're looking for uh four stories correct right so that's that's a change VAR oh correct there's there's a number of changes based on a number of the fact being there is a big at the end of the day like you know like the way it is now it's not beautiful but it's a possibility when this is done that's it and and that's kind of like that's it to me that's okay quick question about that about the Redevelopment plan yeah it's my understanding that first floor residential um is not from so would that be another plan amendment being requested is that for the Dr I thought that was a dbd that's dbd oh that yeah we the Dr on this one dbd is the next application like thep well if it if if that is the state case here then obviously yes they would be required variant as well okay let's keep going moving on to the floor PL okay now I can see the shape yeah it's we're very limited with the actual shape of the property you can see the dash line of where we can actually build so the building kind of fits what we can put in here essenti um as you come to the front door from the from the parking lot we have the elevator and circulation Lobby here mail room so You' enter in and you go to your apartment um the first FL has five units it has uh three one-bedroom units there're approximately 675 ft three uh they have open living space uh kitchen living space closets laundry uh bathroom and a bedroom there's uh uh two two bedrooms in the blue you can see up here in the left of the right faing parkon and uh in the rear ins side uh these are about 950 Square ft uh again open kitchen living space uh crosses and laundry a full uh full bathroom uh and a master bedroom with an a as you can see it has two gr out uh one to the side here that accesses from the parking lot in the darker red and one ACC ex out here to the other side uh moving up so the rest of the floors uh are essentially identical uh the the the red is circulation how I did Mis there mechanical first for can you talk a little bit louder yeah sure sure there is a mechanical core in the center of the uh of the building here that that'll feed um the uh the spaces the central spaces so from the uh the second floor to the fourth floor we have an identical layout where we have uh we have Central red circulation elevator uh and then this is your your Center lobby Bay so this looks have on one qf uh the ESS ER cor connects both fire stairs you have uh access uh on either way out so in case we fire it's a safe layout to get out of the building uh the units are one studio apartment where you can see it's kind of the purple blue right here uh it's about 500 ft has a k uh kitchen bathroom and uh living ding uh combination the one two bedroom is about 975 ft on the corner here uh and it's similar to the ones below where it has uh kitchen uh living space open it has a on Suite bedroom and a bedroom here inside and then four one in the front three in the back uh uh one uh one bedroom units are about 675 ft has an open uh kitchen living space it has the uh has a bedroom the back uh closets and bathroom as you can see in the uh different in layout the side here and the next then I have this roof plant simple roof plant you can see the center decorative roof here to show the entry and the rest is flat roof with the uh decorative uh CR Edge uh moving on these are the architectural elevations so you can see uh the they look dark black these are actually lers uh for the the air conditioning for the the units this is the central entry in the lobby bed where we have a decorative Center element and the awning uh that would cover the front entry door uh the kind of Darker flat gray on each side or box B Window Box Bas uh as you can see this is the on the side on the right this is your second means of beess out comes out here the probob one would come out the central doors this is the Grove Street side so the fire stair so plan is here he makes it out and these uh units inside this is a uh protruding can box B here this is the what call rear the full rear the largest rear elevation it has cab siding uh the Box Bays uh for one two three four four box Bays for the units uh windows and you can see the lers here for the the air conditioning units we have decorative molding up top uh that carries around the entire edge of the building and the F side and same on this angled side of the the rear you can see there's box Bas dark gray clber siding and you can see the side of the decorative from the front and you can see where we terminate our brick um we have a twoot return inside that it completes around the edge so it doesn't look like a thing you know stuck on brick we actually have a p turn on the side and on uh go back one more no one more I'm sorry the that one I I probably missed it what are those those windows these right here yeah uh bathrooms oh those are bathrooms okay okay if I look at the plan uh no they're not they're better sorry they're Upp better they're these they're these right here so they're above the beds above the bed oh okay okay there any questions questions architect what kind of siding did you say it's like a hearty plank we can't say it's Hardy planks but it's something that is that like a cement Mi no it's like a it's like a like a linear clab side I mean is it a composite of it's a composite yeah of what kind of plastics or it's no it's um wonder what it's made of it's like flyash and cement mix okay that's what yeah it looks like it looks like wood siding okay and then um the square footage of the of the units you you mentioned something was 500t just the studio is about 5 how many studios are there uh there's three yeah the top three4 and the and the 650 ft for the one bedrooms they are the one beds yep okay is is that is that within [Music] our and um uh well no that's a variance so your your current Zone requires 750 minimum yeah okay so that's a variance and then also um what kind of amenities do you have can I can I just so when you say bar that's one of the things you that's a Amendment correct thank you they're going to ask you to recommend the governing body that they change the plan they don't want to seear CH the change the zoning change the zoning yes Redevelopment plan so then it would not be a variance correct the the the objective here is if we the Redevelopment plan was amended we go to the planning board without any variances okay all right so then will we have a list of all the different yeah so if you look at the site plan on the right hand side under the notes it lists it list them in your packet so if you'd like I can just read them yeah you want to do that now or I if it was responsive to the question if not we don't have to why don't we do that when we get to the um to the to the resolution have everything together all right um I I if I recall right there are no amenities in this Project's too small two small unit can I ask follow up on her question one of the things we learned is is a green area to pass do you have that somewhere I mean it's something that's important we learned on the Lakeside Commons project that we didn't put it in they need an area to take them heads out so is there any green space at the back front side this side yeah around here dumpster side yeah should be pet so they're not walking them through our town or in our high school or things like that so there's an area for pets there's an open grassy area but you can make it we don't call it an amenity it's just grassy area Okay and then also do you have a restriction on how many BS or cats or that's going to be up to the the landlord at the time there's no we haven't contemplated what lease restrictions are going to be and so you don't have anybody um who's going to be running this project I mean there's no set landlord or had we're years away from this being fully approved and developed and right but how how does it work does it is there somebody living on site or it would not be a living for 17 to 23 units there would be an operator whether it's a management the owner itself or whether they hire a management company that would be at time of the operation it's put into place but it would cons it would comply with what this board has traditionally required in terms of lease restrictions which is uh you know no dividing of units it would provide for each unit to have at least one parking space built in the standard things that this required releases okay um the back side faad there can we go back to the other image okay so is what is that facing that blank wall this this blank wall yeah what will that be facing so it's grow Street yeah grow Street okay so just so everybody's aware you go back to that picture to the back corner of that where the fet's corner is pointing it's pointing towards our recycling so our recycling is right to the right of that which by the way so that's that inside that fence is also rest area that's what I I would like to see and I'm going to say this for all the projects actual designated pet area maybe with no problem is that fence going to be there are you are you is the fence going to be there is that part of it the fence is there now it's an existing condition the fence is is right on the property line okay they're also showing the property kind of flat but it's not that flat fence is that PR it's pretty steep actually on the other side of the fence it is pretty flat that's the backyard oh okay so that's somebody else's yeah that's somebody else's property so do you have water access or not that you need it but I mean does your property go down to the to the river okay to the right to the right okay you see the the lines there oh okay okay anybody else have any questions for the architect one more just the uh the mail you talk about the mail would be a central mail loation the it's right in front there's a box box delivery mail it would be an area to draw packages and mail boxes and then there would be a space here okay oh and I guess the one other thing that we always ask is um you have a mechanical room but where you going to where are the electric meters going to be they have to be outside they have to be outside I believe yeah so we'll have to work with psj obviously we're all suffering their their decisions to force them to be in the ugliest locations possible but we'll do a code to screen them we had thought they'd be on this side here by the dumpsters on this side that would be really good if they could VI fac awayer it's private pickup or okay and they they can back a truck in there and get to the I believe there was something in the county papers about how the garbage would be picked up and have the trucks could maneuver I think I saw that somewhere there were were we have templates I I spoke to I sent the plan to waste management and they if the if the uh easement is consummated there's no problem because they drive in and drive out if not they they said there's there's plenty of room for that to make okay inside okay so that it's done as I mentioned before we also have the Project's traffic engineer uh Eric uh hope um not make any presentation he did that last time cu the traffic study does not change at all but we have them here in case there's any questions that the board of professionals had on traffic so really nothing's changing on Gro Street you can't make left P turn into go so what I'm looking at is recycling people theoretically could cut through the parking if they want but they can't make a left turn any can't make left they have to make a right corre any so there'll be no sense of cutting through the just go around yeah correct okay so if there are no questions either for when do you have any questions I don't no I don't have any questions okay okay we have an easy night then for Eric um that concludes our presentation as I said at the beginning our recommendation is or our ask rather is a vote to approve the project tonight we know you're not prepared to vote on the Redevelopment agreement um or the pilot so the vote we would ask for tonight is a vote to approve the project and to recommend changes to the Redevelopment plan which are again all identified on the site plan um however I would ask for some flexibility given you know just to make sure that it the Redevelopment plan can accommodate what you're approving here um and then to uh have us come back on October 17th to be in a position to vote on the Redevelopment agreement and the pilot Mr chairman I I I understand that's the request but approving the plan doesn't give them any more rights but it does give them leverage on saying they've been approved I think that that part of the agreement the agreement approves it so I think that the vote should be next meeting with an agreement with the attached plans with the list of changes which I think be cleaner if we have a list of the changes or can look at it to say that's we recommendation but somewhere in these packets we have let's just go over what they are the the yeah so I'll go through them can you tell me someone have the Dr we know that we know what so this is identified on here and I don't know if Nick you've confirmed but it's we've been identifying it as The dr2 Zone yeah I'm trying to get clarification on that one so can you just so we can follow along yeah so if you look under site plan notes we're going to start on Note number seven yeah but which sheet are you on which on sheet number four four of 16 four of 16 site plan four us yeah I really appreciate this gigantic paper so if we're looking at the site plan notes on the right hand hand column and you scroll down uh the first variance are going to be identified in the bulk zoning table and in number seven there you'll see uh we have a variance required for uh Building height for rear setback then a number eight for the parking then down to numbers nine uh for the square footage of the the living space 10 for front uh yard parking it's it's just the uh two-bedroom I'm sorry it's just the two-bedroom that Vari or all all of them can I said parking so you want 26 parking spaces for 23 units no uh the ask is is is 26 parking spaces would yield 17 units and then if we have an additional eight offsite but off street that we negotiate with the the county um then that would that would be a total of 34 spaces does somebody have a calculator just so they know what the ratio is 1.5 1.5 and what do we usually get 1.6 no usually 1.4 to so we're Prov so it's good that's good what you say 26 26 on site plus eight on the county so 34 total so how come say required 42 cuz cuz that actually is what your zoning is you you have given this okay so that is our requirement in yeah but um you have gone to 1.4 on most projects at least the ones I've worked on okay but what is what would the one so what are we though here like the 42 you're 1.75 ratio that's what I thought I mean I thought that's what the dr2 is so that's the parking uh nine is the square foot is the living space 10 U your ordinance provides for no uh parking in the front yard which obviously you need to do here uh 11 um no all street parking is permitted any side or rear yard provided that said space shall not be closer than 5 ft to the property line so we violate that uh 12 loading and unloading shall be made in the rear we don't have any rear space rear we don't have any rear space down to 14 no driveway should be located within 5T of the sideline variance in that 15 the trash enclosures um set back from the public RightWay and that is all that have been identified thus far so the trash enclosers how how are they close to the public um are we talking about right the way sidewalk uh we can call Marvin up so he can read his plans and tell us the distances but but is is that the like it's on the right hand side if you scroll out here ran there there that's where it's located right there on the right hand side okay but so where are where is the public right way I mean are we talking about the side just a good 10 away okay that's what I want for good so to give everybody a big picture just so I I know you all know that but I just want to clear it out there so we have this project going on we have the the reframing and redoing of the recycling center which is right behind that the new entrance a new exit a new Circle going in and out all all done because the county is building their project to the right of that county is a 52 unit space with a lot of open green area in the backside towards the recycling center so we're trying to redo that whole little corner right there as one good piece make it look a little better um they're all going to almost be touching there is some space between this project and the recycl Center I think there's what one house in between one one property one property in between and then that would be the recycling center so when you look at it you all know it but it's the corner one house recycl M okay all right so now we all know what the what the variances are if we and I think what we're going to have for next for for the agreement will be a list of them so rather than looking at this going through that be just so we went through it that's there and if I could just ask for for Nick or or Kristen if you wouldn't mind I mean between now and then also double check to make sure that we're not because it doesn't help anybody that we list it out and then get to the planning board oh we miss exactly trying to find that right now so they I'm sorry are they variances or they as as of now they would need a variance their request which is pretty standard in agreements and we've done here is that the the Redevelopment plan be amended so that no variances would be required that's expand on that actually we we have to because one of the variants requested is a D6 height variance which because this a Redevelopment area we couldn't get right we we would need the zoning changes okay does the board have the authority to Grant any labers on any of those plan changes working one or two other but the but you're going to need some they will absolutely need some and the planning Bo could give some but not all definitely not the height and so some of them you're going to have to change the plan and I think that there's the desire typically this board the the agency has been willing to recommend on on a good project project they like recommend and up to the governing body to change yeah the planning board have the ability to do some the preference and the way we've done it is that they go to the Govern they ask the governing body to amend it right so then in effect this Redevelopment plan will be specific for that property okay did you when you and I spoke did we not have a question on the COA requirement um we we spoke to the administrative agent on this project and we have written confirmation of what is required here which is one onsite and one contribution we' provide a two-bedroom onsite no you good with that I I'm good with it as long as you know I'm we're going to confirm it too and I'm sure yes we can for the email we use a group called Tri that's what we talk so if you talk to them there are spokesman for our call okay because just because the agreement that as I knew it and again I'm not I'm not tryad I'm I'm agreeing I'm not tryad here U but it says you got 10% 70 you know 30% can be a buy down pay 70% if you have 23 if you get round down which is where we so that's that's what I want I'm not agreeing to that I Steve knows his stuff I'm not disagreeing with but I am that'll have to be confirmed and generally the way it's in the agreement this agency has said you have to comply with whatever it is you get okay so I guess that's all we can accomplish to I mean I it would help to go forward to the 17 to have some affirmative vote um as Andy said you could you could vote to approve the project obviously the agreement is what's ultimately binding um but we can request that that would the only issue I have with that I have no problem with voting on it I think I I I think the planning it's got to go to the planning board to get the height you know the number of departments that's recording this whole thing but that's still a question of which way it's going to no that's that's here that's what we amend the Redevelopment no no but then you don't have an answer yet it's going to be one or the other oh no that yeah yeah yeah okay I understand that but when it gets to the next stage which would be the board they would they would make it you would know by that at that point but the zoning would already been changed to allow for either right correct that's true it's also going to go zone change it has to go the the governing body first reading goes to the planning board to look at it for consistency with the Min plan and back to the governing B so they will have a chance to review it that way that the proposed changes the and then that's before it even goes there for the site plan application I don't want to fight back and forth I don't see a benefit of voting on things I'm I'll I'll be quite handed I'm asking for it because there were some comments from Miss Novak that there was some maybe wasn't going you know meeting everybody's approv so having some understanding would be helpful I don't know oh you could vote on directing me to prepare and negotiate the Redevelopment agreement consistent with plans that have been presented tonight love okay good okay that's the motion that's the motion somebody want make that motion M so moved so moved do we have a second moved and seconded KY second any further discussion I I I don't like the four stories and I'm not I'm not pleased with the the um like I I know I've been like an advocate for years for uh design standards because I think that this would be clarified for you and you um what we are looking for as a as a um as a town and that we would have like you know at the end of the day day we'd had something that like was cohesive and and made a statement but you know some in another town maybe that would work for this town I just think it's just just something stuck on this you know the end of our town or so a good project to make to compare this to would be the Lakeside Comer project right they had retail there that we didn't put back there we put in a building to hold number of units put there um and to date we you know we really had no issue I can tell you that and this is not just our town there's a lot of shortages of of housing right now yeah but there there's shorting and houses housing and rentals low lower income rentals like our COA right and they're shorting in short shortage of Housing and single family homes but we are putting in a lot of one and two-bedroom rental that's the problem and they're I mean they're not selling they rentals but um I'm just you know I'm wondering are we saturating the market or like you know and also I'm a little concerned when I see Riverdale putting in the kind of units that they saw have return bik and we're not able to do that I don't bring up a good point Riverdale Wayne Bloomingdale putting 260 unit well they're doing that on the highway but I'm talking about like do oh the one that's that's a gigantic project that's a gigantic project I'm talking about the small space that they have the small space they have they they're in Riverdale they don't have they're not frage so you don't see it so I see what you're saying you see no I'm just saying everything we do seems to be four or five stor St high and I'm like why do we always have to go to four five stories high well they without without zoning they can go four without here that I don't have to come to this board for the height get to five so four they can build oh okay so I'm I'm misunderstanding that because at two four BU without even coming to okay but now they're looking for four right and then the other project is five and the project right here is is five the one that we talking about next well that's nothing no I'm just saying like why we're we're pton laks is always going to the most well I think weale that's four stories I don't know that's most I I sat at this hearing where you heard a concept for a 14 story you know that's not fair then we don't have see capacity for so I mean the other thing too though that I think you have to take into consideration and I'm not disagreeing with you but is just the the lots that are available and what you can build on them right I mean it's really so one I'm saying we're going to have to go you know high or you know four stories which I'm not going be in that area because that's all two stories there isn't anything three stories over in that area right County building will that be five stories I thought that was three stories okay so but what I'm saying is the architectural um aspect of it I'd like to see something better than that yeah like this I like this building I I thought it look good with the the moreall across the street because that's not Colonial at all no I know that is so I I just but I just feel like like it's just I I we're always going for like the cookie cutter thing something something that's says PMT and lakes like something from the um we have a really really interesting past but you don't see it anymore because it's getting torn down it's been torn down a long time ago and I and I kind of agree with you except that I mean I've been here for 65 years that g that gas station been for 20 years we got to get rid of it we got make a move we got somebody who wants to build something it's going to be nice it's going to add to the tax value to pton lakes and I'm honestly I'm tired of waiting I want something built I want something done I don't want get that but I wish we had standards cuz then we would be able we want it's not their fault that we don't stand just again to because I know you are hot on this is I spoke to Glen I spoke to the mayor and then we are creating a budget for the Redevelopment agency which again we're going to try to put a Redevelopment standard project in that we've already asked those folks to do but there wasn't money in the budget list I realize that it's just that how many I are we a decade into this already but anyway that's and that's not your problem but we're a decade into it and we don't have a plan well we were to be honest you know I our plan I know if you knew this our planner a different planner came and spoke at our council meeting and she said everything's running pretty smooth except she would suggest that we just do that right we put a plan in place we weren't told that 10 years ago but I I mean I know I asked about it yeah know that's time and time again anyway like go ahead okay so I'm getting a little annoyed that I'm seeing another something that I might see on like Route 13 going down to Northwest Virginia and it's like the Comfort Hotel that's 17 Unit this is yeah I know but it is it's 17 or 23 it's not a big project it's a visual it's a visual that's just here's the Mark I like to be at I I get all the time why we let why is the town letting that J garage sit like that yeah no I understand that I understand that but didn't wouldn't take us that much to change what we have here cuz it just needs well that you that's up you guys well I can't how can I like right now can I say tweak it then that's part of the well you could but I mean but that's going to take time right and that you don't got you don't want to I I don't think that's but but I don't think that's the issue I think the issue now with the motion on the table for what we asked Andy to do is you can make a suggestion which may or may not carry right I mean that's you I how everybody feels about voting we know how Tom feels we can just V and I'll vote my way and and I I'm sorry that I'm not you're not going to like it because I'm not happy with this I don't I don't like the way it looks I don't like to go four stories where we're in a predominantly you know lower level well that's not a true because we are building Pro oh you said that you said five Salvation Army and the building in the middle these are all projects this is what Redevelopment is but it doesn't have to be that high that's what make money revelop Town that's the we wouldn't even be before you if we were two stories no I'm talk about maybe three three sto and it may wind up being that it may end up being that but obviously it's it may not be built even though it's getting approved now just because right but at any point between now and when we pull building permits at any point the Aesthetics I can't help you with that but at any point the Aesthetics can change we can come back to this board and say hey we re it because at the end of the day whoever's going to build this is going to want to build it in the most marketable way possible to attract tenants and not only attract tenants it's going to sell or it's going to rent because as the miror says everywhere I go they get an approval they rent the question is how attractive could it be to get the rents as high as possible so the incentive is on the developer just as much as is this board to make attractive as I will say I think that the changes you and this is my opinion I think the changes you made to the building from The Rock front that was there um is significantly better um I mean the rock front to me look kind of mosum like right um I think this is a tremendous Improvement and look what AB saying I I I I can understand you know we want to try to build some history into the buildings that we're building I get that there's way to do that that I just don't know um keeping the same height and keeping the same structure but maybe and I'm just throwing I'm not saying doing this in this BR maybe a Fe and an L somewhere on lit up area or something that I'm not sure about that but whatever the history you know whatever you're looking for in that I mean I don't think you're going to you know look at our downtown we can call it the the serum I don't want uh the downtown is a mishmash of what it is right now we're trying to bring that into a pattern a little bit but that's that's what I'm saying we're missing the mark because we don't have a plan so we're not bringing into a pattern and here I see again we have a pattern of not bringing in turn P but again and we're spending I know we're but if you take the building look at in Riverdale that long building that goes down is the most unesthetic pleasing building it's a concrete block with divisions for detail and apartments across the top with absolutely no Aesthetics at all yeah I mean this is phenomen that for the for the height of it is is is more see to me and I and I would normally say I would agree to me on this project where it's located next door recycling center with the woods the height is not really affecting me that's me personally um you know 14 story in the middle of town that affects okay but this one where it's located and what's behind it there's not much there's no real residential I didn't so there's nobody worried about it I didn't have recy some there really and a stream okay any other discussion not have a roll call please can we repeat what was Mo excuse me can you repeat motions Tom my motion Ken Ross okay Mr Silverstein yes sign sorry what Mr quickley yes Mr Noak I'm going to say no because I'm not happy with this Stu Mr Ross yes okay thank you very much for your patience tonight and letting us go through this so we'll be in touch with Mr Brewer and hopefully we'll be back in a couple weeks okay thank you so much thanks good luck yeah yeah let let's adjourn for five minutes 5 minutes yeah thank you have motion to um no not adjourn recess motion to recess motion okay see again well be anybody right now no because you don't have a and and I'm just getting a little [Music] up got it okay we're going to reconvene the meeting we have Roo please yeah okay Andy Silverstein here Mr Quigley here miss Novak here uh Mr Ross here and I guess mayor Sarah okay and [Music] okay so this is pump and Smith Properties LLC 201112 Avenue ppon Lake New Jersey lock 63 I'm going lot one zone DB dbb1 all right you tried to say I'm back do again again yes hope this this one we anticipate going going quicker because we've been before you many more times in this application uh this is the property uh 20111 AQ Avenue SL 6300 Lot 1 as you may recall last time we were in front of you uh we were directed to go back and make some revisions based on a couple of things brief recap our application has another hold on we're back up okay Bill take this as a sign you okay yes we're good we're good okay okay we're good all right getting back into it where we were last time you may recall our application was requesting parking on two different levels one of those levels was to be accessible through the ponle for reasons we discussed at that point for financing and other reasons we would need as an applicant an easement from the governing body through the ponle to access that it would not be an exclusive easement it would be non-exclusive and it would also not be a specific pathway it would allow flexibility for the municipality to build later on um and and it would be consistent with all the other uses that that access the rear through the pon Hole uh we understand that there were some issues with that so what we have done one of the things you here tonight is design an alternative that doesn't require access to the pon hole we do not think it is uh the best proposal we still maintain that the best proposal is accessible to the pon hole and you'll hear why mainly uh to satisfy your parking requirements without the easement it would require us to license 46 spaces through the pon hole lot with the easement it would require only eight um more spaces would be able to be accessed and developed on site and would defay uh the need to to take up that much space in on the P lot so that's number one number two the other main comment was the amount of retail space that was being provided um in the prior design which as you may recall was also an increase over the earlier design in the square footage of retail um as you'll hear from the architect we have gone back we have Revis the plans to move around uh utility rooms and hallway access and things like that and have res resulted in actually increasing uh the commercial space even further so we hope that meets with your approval and again we now believe we are there and ready to have uh a vote uh similar to the last application to direct Mr Brewer and I to negotiate Redevelopment agreement and designate uh this applicant as the redeveloper so we'll start um with the engineer to our right Mr Weissman who has been previously sworn in remains under oath has been accepted as an expert and I would ask him to just briefly go through what has been resubmitted as uh just from the last application changes to the plans Mr okay so the first floor plan which is the gr the uh has been changed to uh include the number of five spes the generator going so you have to stay um the accesses remain the same there's been a slight shift in the access off the the lak side uh again that's a one way way in uh to accommodate the Transformer room electric meters into that uh Corner um the reduction in spaces on that first level went from 28 to 20 so we lose eight spaces now due to the reconfiguration of that area the lower level uh which we Richie had um 39 spaces on we are uh requested to uh bely not allow parking underneath the building it brings us to a total uh space count of 20 where uh 72 spaces are required for the apartments and the freetails included that 18 brings it up to 90 with an E Credit we have um- 6 so we are down to 64 spaces needed uh from the pond hole in license agreement um from an engineer perspective everything else I hate to interrupt you but it's really hard to hear you up here yeah okay that doesn't help this is not an amplifier this is just a recording so you're just going to have to speak L for okay um so basically at this point the obviously the footprint of the building has not changed um the exterior I'll again prer to the architect for exterior but the accesses have remained the same with obviously the elimination of the pond hole access we do have an exit out onto cfax Avenue an entrance and off of Lakeside which again has been slightly shifted to the uh to the west to get a uh oh okay yeah I'm sorry to the north to allow the electric meter and Transformer room to be located in that location uh again reduction in spaces from 28 to 20 uh on that level and again elimination of the spaces in the lower level bringing us down to a total of 20 spaces available balance of spaces fire a proposed to be licensed from the burrow in the pth [Music] hole other than that there's been uh there's no other engineering aspects the plan is been Chang so most of the changes are going to be reflected in the architect's testimony but we want to get the sze plan so there's 20 spaces that's plus 46 spaces the 20 spaces on the first floor level yes okay and the 46 faes and the 46 spes where I'm sorry onle on just I I know how the presenting but he's saying one or the other we then never spoke about 4 to Six B that was my next qu one of the questions no no there was no I'm not suggesting that that was so the suggestion was as an alternative to an easement if we weren't able to access it we would have to ask for the license spaces that is the number that would it's just the number you that's the number that would be necessary to reach the ratio required had no discussion none none yeah yeah so I so can I at least Summit I think this is what they're saying yes on this variable they are asking the agency to approve what they're doing subject to them going to the governing body and the governing body saying saying to the governing body can we have an easement and if they say yes then they're going to build it with them downstairs if they no you can't have an easement they say can we in perpetuity have 46 spaces in the Pondo if the governing body says yes then it's approved if they say no to that too they have nothing they'd have to come back is that fair if they say no to they say no vote Yes of course right yeah the C the governing body either scenario requires us to license spes that controls what the Govern body but so what was the number you talked about before the 46 I think were you looking at we were originally at uh we needed to buy with not taking retail into account we needed to buy three spaces yes and with the new retail set up how does that work we would need uh 18 spaces no that no no no then you're answering question Sor with the retail changes and no and no easement 46 right with the retail changes 3 to 46 with the retail changes and an easement eight 3 to8 three to eight correct right but the biggest thing is they are giving you two sets of plans I get it both of which you there's still one other party that's got to say yes to one of these things M yes okay this is not this similar than what we went through before four stories or three stories yeah the only difference being it's this municipality rather than a separate body the county but yes well no that we stole this municipality that the the Redevelopment agreement being amended from Talking the amendment I Wasing about the county parking space yes same thing correct but I I think has to be discussion at this level before it comes to the Council on what they're proposing from E everyone just keep thrown out e no one's showing me what that is I I'll I'll reiterate what what our proposal is it is a non-exclusive eement meaning that it does not restrict any other use of the property any other party being contracted number one number two we're not requiring or requesting any specific Lane there'll be no meets and Bounds or or legal description or depiction of a lane that needs access you can zigzag it any which way to accommodate the future use of of the property including the construction of a building construction of a parking lot as long as we can get a vehicle there which there's there's no there's no logical way I can conceive that you would construct anything that wouldn't be able to get a vehicle there uh you raised before the meeting the question of whether the only access is a fire lane U Mr Brewer I I I hope would confirm with me there's no restriction that a fire lane cannot be also used as a the right of way to get to a building obviously we can't park on it we're not proposing that but it can be also used that way so from our perspective the easement is as flexible as possible would not result in any hindrance on your ability to construct in the future what and and I think probably said it perfectly but he's going to go to the governing body and say see this big circle this the pond hole this is our point of entry what we want from what we want from you is a guarantee that for the next 50 years we can get through this ponle to that point you can tell us where it is we need a 12T wide space 12 in order to access I don't know if the Govern body's going to do that but they're not saying they don't care they don't care about where it is they just want to always be able to do it I think the government body is going to want to hear from both plan board and the Reel agency do you think that's a way that we want to address this I mean just throwing on govern body to say you want to have as say go this not think they're not going to say yes or no that they need someone to show them this is what it's going to look like if you do that but there's no way to tell what it's going to look like say 10 years from now right now right now right now I right now it was built if that building was there today my anticipation would be is someone would drive into Badcock make a left down the center aisle of the parking lot and drive smack into that garage why not because his cars parked obviously they're going to go down the lane no I'm saying there's parking spots on the back side there well I believe their proposal if I remember correctly at two of those spots going away that was 24 fo that's another part spot that you know that would all be in you know we need to remove three spots that would be something that would be in the redevelopers AGA no they want to go to the council the council see they don't want to I don't think I don't think you have that right do you want to the council first I'm sorry I'm trying to pull up the map here to show that I I you have to repeat the question well if I get to inter a little bit why am I where am I off here dcck there you go that without saying what the governing Steve without saying what the governing body is going to do it might be helpful for the governing body to digest it to say as of today before any changes are made to the pond hole this is where we envision and we request that the easement be located so people can always access this way knowing that it may change in the future but saying yeah exactly but they put on their preferred one that they will go to the governing body with the expected spot removed and respot move and I'm not saying how they're going to vote they may say no but I think that that helps them digest it better they're not going you can't just go ask them what we but they're going to say well tell me about what does it need where does it go is there spots in the way how do you want us to I know I I fully Envision that this gets to that point us making a full presentation to the governing body meting to those they have to have I think it was one right one SP what one space I thought is is this is this aerial current the current layout um oh he asked me looks pretty good this is your building is your building is down here right at the top Bob's got the cursor it's right right there's the entrance right there the entrance is right there so what so and there's one two three four five spaces there you're not going to lose all one two three I'm sorry there are three spaces One Stop walk comoss one two three right there those are the spaces that would be so there's three spaces are going to go away three spaces yeah that one um now the other one is the the other aspect of this is Mo well most all of these buildings on that that front on to WQ are all accessed through that same Pondel at that elevation and they they have no parking in front no access to parking front so they would be in the same condition as far as no parking front there's parking there's parking but this is where the main entrance Park Street yes yes but you and I had this conversation before in that corner building over there and at a shop these folks are parking cars on their property and what they're doing now is coming down BPT going down this Lane you can even see where it's paved and not pav so tomorrow we bu that corre they're asking for yeah and and and again just so everybody's clear on the reason why this is an out a built project this is going to require a bank to finance this and the bank is going to want to see you're putting 20 spaces on this level you're accessing it through somebody else's property show me the easement yeah exactly the site does presently have access and does use that rear of this property subject property for parking coming in from the it's it's also required but the planning board would require to show they have a legal right to access those spaces even if the bank didn't require exactly going to require you need going your I'm sorry go to your point tomorrow if we put F that said you can't enter it they have no fight and say you can't f it it may fight you not that not that I'm talk about the other well they may but didn't you um you and I had a conversation about wi prescriptive against against the government very hard awful hard so I mean I mean there there's no answer to this to this problem without taking a position one way or the other I I I listen I want to try to the only way I think M mayor that it's it sounds like your concerns are going to be satisfied is if somebody plots out what a future building can be like right I think well I'm not saying plot out but I think if you're asking for the approval from the council I don't speak to everybody councel I think they're going to want to see what you're asking they don't you just say e but they're going say show what but to Mr Brew's point we're we're being as flexible as POS we're going to say this just allow us for from point A to point B you tell us how I I'm just Mak suggestion it's just a suggestion I think they would like to see a instead of I can I can we can well that's just come down bpack and go down c yeah that's it and then atast that's start discussion leave it up to them there'll be seven people with seven different plans not how they want to see these people which that's why that's that's the reason for like because it would be could the way is now access and if it changes in the future as long as we have the access it's all matter I mean you you know you I I I'm struggling to understand why it would be difficult just just there's a lane there drive up the Lane right to the entrance Lanes well you just said it right now right I'm saying right now then the next question would be if the town was to build a building there how would that you say you say to the architect this is the ement we have make sure it but that might not be the lane that we're looking correct doesn't right so that's what they're going to answer these question that's fine we're ready to answer them yeah from an engine perspective I can't see this tle being redeveloped uh as with the structure without having parking underneath sure around and that's what would most likely happen and the same concept would apply that we don't care as long as we get access through that garage to the and the other part that the cast is going to want to hear from both Bo just if you're if you're suggesting the project to move forward separate from the parment separate from the e that they want to know that if you if we're going through all this work and then you guys still have an issue with the project no we wouldn't come to you with that that's that we we that's why we're here is because we I I want to go to the council make this presentation answer these questions and say we're here because the Redevelopment agency voted to approve this we have a Redevelopment agreement it's conditioned upon you all agreeing with this but we have the blessing of the Redevelopment AG that's what I'm and that's why we're here that's what we're ask what do you think about this plan well I mean they're asking for a general EAS man I don't know why we wouldn't give it to what what's the limitation to giv that just so you know you're right that area is probably somewhere where we going right right so be it would be we we have obligations to parking for already but but but even if it wasn't I'm sorry I asked you a question I you they're they're saying they're okay you can build move our easement just give us an easement right no I get that right so why why wouldn't we do that well what was those four spots we did so we losing spots too that's going to be a that's different though that's a negotiated you buy you have you have to you have to lose how many you losing three buy if you come down the lane you're losing three because the way you're property line yes it's number to lose parking but for the vment of Redevelopment but this this Bo has to have a discussion height all the things we just talked about on the last application you're all good with that and like like you said you said then you're presenting it but you're still in flux of how you want the building to be well that's got nothing to do with the parking yeah all over the place we do one let me recap you because I I don't want my understanding to I my understanding is that we've moved we we're moving past a lot of those issues we' settled a lot of we were asked to come back on retail specifically that's up yes that's correct and okay so so the issues that we just I think we're past we haven't had a formal vote but conceptually we weren't asked to go back and we don't like the height we don't like this we were as specifically retail space and park and parking that how why I remember it agreed if I can make one more point the going back to parking uh allowing access gives us 28 more spaces on site for the Del in this property however it goes for which we would not have without uh that AV this easement so it it it to me it keeps all s of the world to go for to allow parking underneath this slow and and the other point I just want to make and now it's been confirmed by um both attorneys is that even if we built a building on the ground we couldn't we'd have to have fire Lanes around the building the on the outside that you could an attorney has to tell they just did no I have to have attorney say you we're going to sell it as driving in the fire that's what we're selling a fire lane is never exclusive you that you can't drive on it unless it's a fire truck a roadway can't park on it you can't impat it but it's still telling you as our e Drive on the fire I don't know if we can do that from my experience driving over filing what you're doing is um reserving a place for an emergency condition for a fire truck to park so you cannot par it you can drive across as long as again you don't stop drop it's it's not meant to not B my yeah yeah that's something that and and and they would review the plans based on the fact that there's no building there right now project to beated Access Fire depart best way in somebody be driving over it all the time right okay I don't think we can talk about this anymore I think we have to make a decision as to what we want to do why don't we bring up yoga so you can talk about the architectural changes okay okay can I just yes you can do every way can it be uh additional condition is that if if the preferred e that would be presented will involve automobiles crossing a fire lane that this be approved by the fire department as a specifically reviewed and approved we got to come back here but you can't you can't have every conceivable thing mayor stop throwing up the speed bump let's get forward on this let's get this through come on okay all right uh Mr Mystery is to my right you're all he's under oath can't lie to you okay go ahead thank you um okay so we're just going to go over the changes that we made from the last uh iteration of this drawing set um the main item being that uh the lower level was essentially uh just made storage space we eliminated all the parking spaces we have the utility rooms down stairs we also eliminated the uh the trash room because since we don't have access from down below put the trash upstairs the rest of it is either just 10 storage retail storage and and just kind of access for utility rooms okay um now I'm confus now I'm confused okay now you seem to be talking about this like you're not like there's no ease like there is no so I'm really confused of what we're doing our let me yeah our ask is for the easement with the two levels of parking that we previously presented as an alternative we were asked to provide a design that doesn't have the easement meaning no access to the pel that's the version that Mr myy is presenting right now so as Mr Brewer said with the approval the council would be presented with these they vote no on that then they would be present all right well we need 46 fa's license now they say yes to that or they can say no to that if they say no to both as Mr Brewer said we' be back before you but this is what we were asked to provide so that's why we're no okay I guess my question then is and I don't mean to interrupt you but if if the easement were granted let me just ask you this question that would solve one of the parking questions that we have parking and Retail so let's just make an assumption just for discussion the easan was granted what did you do with the retail in that scenario okay I'm going to go to the other the first floor point that was the lower level that that was the parking garage level okay that was just I we have to excavate regardless okay so so in effect now that that clarified it okay so in effect what you were saying is that bottom level is exactly the same same excavation same foot same thing same height same whatever parking there parking exactly so you put all the other stuff downstairs corre okay got it okay sorry so on the ground floor now we picked up a retail space I think there was a request to change the the VES or the entryway for the apartments instead of coming off from wanu which is over be over here we had like this linear uh hallway going back to the elevator we changed that we made the coffee shop the whole storefront facing wanu um then there's a retail space number two right behind it that's you know uh facing Lakeside I'm sorry not lak kofax and then right after that there's a double door and that leads to the entry for the uh residential apartments above to the elevator core um right after that is the exit for the parking on the ground level and after that are the three additional retail spaces as it wraps around the corner um we were also asked to move the electric and Transformer it used to be facing cfax close to where retail space 2 was and so we shifted it onto Lakeside so uh this driveway shifted slightly but this is still the entry off of Lakeside exit onto cax there's 20 spaces now because uh in addition to the retail and S of reconfiguration of the apartment entry the trash room got larger to accommodate the dumpster for the retail um so we're left with 20 uh parking spaces okay so this is the uh so under this scenario there's 20 parking spaces in the building [Music] correct correct okay and the downstairs is Z Storage and zero and whatever else you're going to do down there yes and there would be 46 spaces that need to be leased correct okay got I think there were some also some minor changes the the entries to the retails I think they were requested to be recessed so we recess them where's the so now I'm confused so where's the plan of not the point no that's that's going to be you this will be the main floor under either plan either yeah this is the revised first plan for either version either you excited or two is the lower floor correct yeah the so one minor caveat to that the only slight difference would the trash room might get a little smaller we could then put it back downstairs we' probably pick up one or two spaces then so but otherwise we would keep all the retail like it is important part the retail for either either way we got eitherway we went from originally two spaces to five and square footage I can't remember the original but we're up to uh what are we up to now 5,176 there you go somebody did their homework and I believe you told us in your testimony that you thought originally what's there now was about 7,000 I think that's right that's right I may be old but sometimes my memory works okay now I got it and how many units are we talking about in either Pro yeah the unit count didn't change that's still uh 51 units how many floors four floors four floors 51 units yeah so five floors all together yeah the the ground floor is the retail and parking and there four four floors of apartment five stor from ground yes and you want 51 SP so you'll need 75 rcky spots right 60 uh 66 no no at the 1.4 ratio you're at 72 right with the EV credits yeah 66 correct okay so it's 62 with the EVS 66 and that's what you would have with 20 on site 46 license right what about the other one the the other way the other way we'd be asking for eight license eight license so 58 on site 58 8 58 on site right so it's either 58 + 8 or 20 46 20 + [Music] 46 that is correct okay everybody got that thank you for bearing with us cuz it's no it's very took us time too so you want to accommodate so listen I I think and the retail space Also is not necess and I and I I hope we all agree on this it's not necessarily five spots because it could be flexible if somebody wants all three spots for one store then they get 20 some 100 square ft okay and also coffee shop is not necessarily a coffee shop it's not necessarily a coffee shop um I would still suggest for the final plan of this if we get there I would take coffee shop off and just call it retail um and that also can be flexible space so there's 5170 now I asked I'm assuming you're making the office to anybody who [Music] has yeah we'll we'll condition [Music] that the sidewalks are again said last time we said they're actually wider than the are existing conditions I can't remember what the testimony was do you remember Bob yeah I think we determined it was wider than they are now yeah the building current the existing buildings come right to the property line our building is set back in most places not not every spot but and the tra pattern you're suggesting with an EAS say that again May traffic pattern you're suggesting the E come from how do you come in it it would be in and out so you'd be coming in so geographically would be coming north through the ponle to the to the building onc or on going down can you put up the parking I could say something quick I think I had something that will help this discussion a the parking oh this if your preferred one you're asking for what three eight space you're asking for the governing body to guarantee that they'll get eight spaces for 30 years they have to have access to it so necessarily if the governing body were to agree to eight spaces here that they're going to lease they have to be able to access it so they are necessarily already agreeing to give access someplace to so instead of asking for access to eight spaces you're asking to access to a little law I think that's a sales job I'm giving you but it's it's a less of a sell to say I want access to a little line any place cuz you're still they're going to have to give you access to the eight spaces also some place just where I take the help anytime I can get it okay and you're not at 46 is probably this entire Vol yeah 46 I'm just going to say is is probably not a you're necessarily getting an easement if if you're getting spaces in the pble for 30 years are necessarily getting any an implicit easement to them rather than needing 46 baces you need access to a little H that's my sales job but I this is this is true north to south here and we be access it through the North and it's so you and egress in the same location from back cop you be coming in H or you coming down the hill on L probably do it either way way so that's what I'm asking so you're not suggesting a way cor no that's again to the point we're not suggesting any specific way but that's the way anybody else can enter the pond hole also and there' be absolutely no way to control that well no but I'm one the counties is C traffic coming in so they might suggest to us on b c don't forget got radi project oh now now the county is going to say they don't like the traffic on one too much I mean we'll deal with that issue if it that that that one seems a little farfetched to me the count you know I mean it's a i it's a road you can think you can travel is isn't this a public right what EAS start back a public right away so starts once you're off of that road right yes so the res could come either way good County would have say over yogish is right the the connection with wanu and Babcock is not is not part of the easement we're suggesting so they wouldn't have any say on that anyway okay so U when you're exiting out of the um upper level for where the retail is do you can you make a left or right or just right so that's a oneway [Music] Flow lak side so the enter is on Lakeside up to only a right or so that was a question that was raised last time it's not proposed that way we were open to whatever you thought was appropriate question [Music] 8ot 8ot um yeah so that that was a question I think it's going to be a so I say make right that's you got school you got your project you got you get the backup going on to that's this is the exact same discussion I had last time we started with what the mayor said and then then you get the backup yeah so that's why we left it open today yeah I don't you know that's going to be what's that making the right gives you the back right or left thinking left to at the exit on to here there's the edes um yeah so if you made left right I mean I thought I thought the last time we talked about is we didn't want the right because that brings the traffic back to the school which we tried to avoid when we did lak side lot TR both sides are B so yeah but again I I just don't think everybody's leaving at the same time either keep in mind there's only 20 spaces cuz the lower level whether you give it or not that's coming out that's correct there only 20 cars so I would rather the the traffic not go towards the school and that way the flow is the same in both of them so you want to make a left out I want to make a a left towards one here then you have to cross over double yellow line right you're not to do [Music] that you can't we have to change oh yeah yeah but that's we're going to be having part of the construction that's all going to be read there I might not the left as much as the left or right on qu that's what we talk to turn yeah that is oh that's the existing condition you're saying yeah right I mean but right I would like to see tra study on that area that's a top corner right now now did you did we do a traffic study it was a traffic study yeah we already had we we didn't bring a traffic engineer beyond that yeah but this's a traffic study done I'm just wondering I just don't remember what Dynam traffic I don't remember what that I don't remember what it say if there was which way that we should go out of here it was it was study to make the left or the right left or the right right okay b 40 cars Probus three maybe four cars a week hour so it's really not that much not that much okay yeah I would rather have personally I'd rather have it go towards monu cuz then the flow in Lakeside and this building would be exactly the same you can only go into the parking lots okay and that's when people are coming home and you can go out and not go by to school so you would want them to exit and only be able to make a left because they make a right oh you're saying restricted to left only yeah why why can't they go make a right because if they then if they go down if they make a right then they can make a right onto um L and go by scho we can make no um I don't know I I mean they just want to go if you want to go to down Kat to get on 287 why not make let them make a right I then they have to go how how do they then they have to go around they can make a left on to PX and then go down and okay they it doesn't really it doesn't matter three to four cars peek hour it doesn't matter it's probably not going to make any difference leave it alone either way okay so that's our that's our proposal that's our ask again the vote we would request would be the same when you took last application which would be the direct Brewer you want to frame that resolution please it would be to um any other comments on suggestions nothing yet okay and so what are we what are we voting on you yeah uh just yes one point of clarification um so I'm looking at the plans here um and it's saying 6 stor 68 ft is that no longer the case from the back back the back side okay so you would still be seeking the Amendments that plan for the height side yeah no is it does your ordinance count from the back I thought it counted from the street level I think it's from the street I believe the reiring is three stories 45 ft from the street I have to see when that's to the extent but it is listed also here in in your plan as the requirement being 3 45 okay yeah I mean we we would need to request that as well okay you you'd be requesting aend recommendation to change the plans so this would be if you wanted to a resolution to direct me to continue negotiations for redevelopment agreement for this project with the plans as presented on Alternatives where there would be two parking Alternatives the first preferential one would be the easement um so they could have the major the majority of the spaces within the building second alternative to go to the governing body would be no easement to access the um par of the pond rle but rather they would have 46 um spaces least um with a guarantee from the governing body they would be least for a certain amount of years Ag and that it would be contingent upon that if they did not get either one of those from the governing body they would have no approval what B they' have to come back that's you'd be direct me to negotiate agreement which you have yet to see and yet to approve but I think the question I I don't think 46 spots is e we can't do 46s so I mean we just can't do it so I don't know why would be asking because then if if that's this Sports take that out and negotiate the agreement you got count the high school spots we put put spots aside I get all that well you know I mean the problem is you're the one who said maybe they don't do the E easement it's all based on easement we need the stinking sell it to the council way they the C we're going to need 46 what I'm saying is you can ask that but we don't have why don't with that understanding and understanding un likelihood I think the vote should stay as articulated by Mr Brewer so as Mr Ross said that can be presented to the council they can sign that y okay so anybody understand the resolution I do do we have a motion to so move so move do we have a second I'll second have a motion we have a second any discussion again I know this before like five stories we're doing five stories again we cannot setep back a little bit maybe like four [Music] back there's just no room no room right there always going to be five stories stor from the back the no but the top look at the shape of the building L he lose six or eight Apartments try to step them back and it was remember this was step back this is a lower number of Apartments corre than was originally proposed also increasing the site the set back lines and the set back lines because I so this is four above one yes yes and it was originally five above one with seven in the back correct so they already cut it back yeah it was bigger and but the back doesn't make any difference because you can't it just doesn't make any difference everything speak that go ah you had any comment before we no it's a difficult site I step it back un so they said everything s all right motion's been moved and seconded we've had a discussion um roll call please Mr steers sign yes Mr Quigley yes um M Mrs NOC no Mr Ross Yes okay thank you all thank you thank you good luck have a great night you very [Music] much okay new and unfinished business um I'm sorry resolutions we don't have any new and unfinished business we don't have any we don't need an executive session good seeing you again any public discussion open the meeting for public discussion seeing no one in the public is here we'll close the public discussion any good of the order one question yes Andy had give me a piece of paper regarding executive session yeah we do it for five minut minutes minutes exective okay negotiations okay uh go into executive session for a bit yep so they give you Rec resolution of be a motion the executive session um to discuss contract negotiations okay do we have a motion move second all in favor okay out you can all they can all leave and blank everybody see you lat all [Music] right second good to see you goodbye everybody I'll be done in a while this is your p [Music] [Music] yeah it's not going to be the same thing I to fix it I don't know okay we did go to the order we did everything else um do we have a motion to adour motion motion adjourn thank you all all right all right sorry guys don't be sorry don't be sorry why there votes there votes I will um [Music]