yeah City Council budget Workshop Tuesday July 3024 flag uned States Mayor John couver here vice mayor Linda Rodriguez here councilman David Mueller here councilman Robert hubard here councilwoman Lisa Burke here city manager Matthew cobbler here thank you first up comments from General Public we are empty in here today so I will move along no signups nobody in the audience um to com city manager pass Mr comp for his comments no comments moving on to comments for the mayor city council I'll start with uh councilwoman Burke mayor Rodriguez thank you [Music] councilman counciler I have as well put your speaker [Music] on okay moving on Council business it number one fisc year 2025 budget discussion I will pass it to Mr Copler for his wonderful budget presentation well thank you um so we you already had one one meeting we talked a little bit about uh the penny for Pasco CIP as well as the storm water utility but today is the continuation of that J Journey where we hope to be able to get through a number of the different departments today talking about uh what's what's in the budget for uh next year provide you the opportunity to ask any questions and what you see I've prepared a a PowerPoint doesn't have a lot of information different than what what you have um but it kind of helps Focus us on the process going forward today so hopefully it uh will be somewhat uh revealing to you so it either folks a lot of questions or it answers a lot of questions [Music] [Music] so the general fund budget which primarily all we're going to be covering tonight is covered within the general fund unfortunately uh Public Works and utilities uh the people that I need be there at that meeting or this meeting are not here this week so we're not able to handle those that different so tonight just general osed 25 F year 25 general fund is 8,187 196 it represents a 3.36% increase over fiscal year 24's budget some of the uh the things to keep in mind from the revenue side is uh one I've provided you what the mill rate is currently for fiscal year 2024 which is a 6.53 you might recall from the document that uh we presented at the last council meeting for all the trim notifications we had to do um the roll back rate would represent 63782 So within within the general fund revenues there are some things that uh are increased over the current year that are are notable that you should keep in mind you know first off uh the tax role has increased this year uh by a little bit over 10 I think it's like 10.8% if not Mist little over 10% um there is an increase in the impound lot revenues within the general fund increase and interest earnings um we're using some building department reserves and I'll talk a little bit more about that we get the building department uh conversation and there's also $440,000 uh in Revenue news budgeted for sponsorships um keep in mind that we have two big events coming up the next fiscal year one of course Fourth of July if you want to continue with that that particular event but also our Centennial so I kind of split it out uh in a in a process looking at saying you know 20,000 there's good potential we get 20,000 for the Fourth of July sponsorships and another 20,000 will cental sponsorships [Music] one thing that I do want to point out on on Revenue that we're still looking at and and really trying to understand significance from the current year into nixer um estimate is in the red light camera revenues and and in the expenditures I think this something that I hope to have resolved at least in my mind where we're going to be for the current year and be able to project that out next year but until that we have that we have kind of a placeholder number in there as you might know we we have red light cameras um and generally we've been trending up from each year in the past I think it was 1 1.6 1.7 in previous budget years if you look at the revenues year to dat this year you'll see those numbers are are a lot lower from projection standpoint to where we should be at the end of this year and and that may or may not have an impact on our budget this year that's because there are really three different costs or three different ways that that money is applied so one thing is we receive or we the service for those lights is running about 23 to $24,000 a month so you know that number is a fixed cost within a fixed cost varies a little bit every month but you know we know that we're going to be receiving that every month for 12 months the other cost is the what we pay in those fees collected to the state again that's a variable cost a greater variable cost because you know you get a ticket portion of the ticket citation goes to the state remainder stays and so that Revenue [Music] of. know doesn't all come to us it doesn't all stay with us and so again what we need to figure out is you know why our revenues down I'll tell you the reason the revenues are down is because the tickets are down we had to find out why the tickets are [Music] down and once you know we have a good answer to that we can then start projecting going forward next year so that could be a number that as we go through this process needs to be adjusted I just want you to be aware of that and again I think we're trending right now probably about 1.3 million so that that could be a significant hit are we behind in processing those that want um I I don't have a good answer to that again you know we're looking at at the budget we High find these things and we start looking at them Ma we just need to get a good understanding that's really it I mean there's there's some other you know small increases here and there from the general fund Revenue but these are really the biggest uh drivers of the in the tax receipts are those property taxes yeah is that the um which what where are the 10% where is that is that like he's at quoting River or is it accurate or no no just generally overall the whole yeah yeah the whole [Music] city the values of the properties increase that doesn't include the taxes from the keys of Cody river that that I I don't know how much I mean there there could be typically frasers possessors will will do a inum assessment of a property so if like you're halfway done in at the time when they're they're doing the assessment of the property tax Ro they would they give value to that land over what was there the previous year um but I don't know I wouldn't expect it to be 100% in this year but it could be again you know they they start to process very early in the year just depends upon at what point the uh the assessment team was out there with that that could that could also come from whenever a house sells it could lose its Homestead and escalate up value and certainly any construction that occurred in our city would be added to the roles as well the reason I picked Cody the keys was because obviously it's a large development with a huge impact on I mean there's a lot of residences in there I don't remember the exact number but there's a lot so there potentially that 10% could go up if that tax base is not in in there [Music] yet sorry interrupt sorry actually it would be nice if if it's not if just made a note just look at that and see thank you problem that was a a quick overview of revenues um on the expenditure side G the number looks very similar um Post 25 is 8,879 balance budget and again it's a 3.6 3.36% increase over budgeted fy22 some of the things keep in mind in terms of uh factors that are affecting all expense accounts here in the city um you know we we are at a point right now as we're working with the Consultants on our health care and what where where we're at today is about a 5% increase in health care costs you're going to get the full presentation on this at the next meeting because we're going to be making a recommendation to actually move away from PRM and going out on our own with health care as well as the liability property in doing that you know unfortunately it's not Apples to Apples in terms of the health care uh benefits are and trying to match the closest plan that we can find outside of PRM and and you know again provide maybe even some better benefits through through this process but we're working on that uh we're supposed to be getting final and best rates within the next day or so um but I would expect that that the closest to Apples Apples change that we're going to be doing is probably going to be in that two to three three and a half% increase over uh the current Year's numbers had we stayed with uh PRM we were looking at a 108 or 10.9% increase so you had to do something be able to manine on on the uh property liability side even though what we're looking at is a 12.6% increase over what we currently have in the budget um in reality it's actually less than what when we move to pgit which is another trust similar to PRM but a different pool of uh cities it's actually a decrease but unfortunately when you pull out of the PRM trust you have to pay run out and the rent outs they're projecting to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $38,000 so though it represents an increase if we stayed with PRM it would probably be about a 13 to 14% increase for the upcoming year with this you know we're going to be resetting what our our overall cost structure is with those property and liability and I didn't put up there that we actually getting a decrease in our work workers comp so it actually is less than 12% increase but but with workers comp considered we're still working there's some negotiation with PRM on the uh run out because they they base it on a certain number of claims from here to the end of the year uh we think it's uh not a realistic number I think they were they were estimating nine claims to be filed within the next two months which is not necessarily the rate at which we're filing claims so um we're going to be working still to try to reduce that so that that cost should come down a little bit more but again um we will be going forward our cost structure will be less than what would be if we stayed with PRM and relatively not a lot of difference question for that you talk about that run out is that based on actuals or is there project is that a projection yeah so there's there's a little bit of of actual but the big number is the number of expected claims as I said they're they're projecting I think the number was nine and we we just think that that you know where they get that number we can't figure out because that's not the the rate at which we are filing claims with them and and this is based upon SS of the past right things that have occurred already prior to us leaving their you know actually they they don't they don't provide a lot of information you just ask and they say here's what it is and then we have to go back and try to you know sit down thank you and so with that let's kick off we're going to start with the uh police dep Department um two two components within the police department obviously uh dispatch and police now I know um the decision has been made to move forward with uh Contracting out dispatch and so we we have made some changes within the budget lines and we'll Point those out as we go through this uh but understand that it's probably going to be about a six-month transition to actually get to the contracted uh solution um we hope will be shorter but that's what we've been told um so because of that we're going to be about four months into next year's budget when when that changeover is going to happen and so what what I decided to do this year was just keep the two different uh C what I call C centers um there uh and then in next year's budget we can deal with how we want to start accounting for it um but right now so you'll see dispatch and police um see that dispatch budget this year represents a 6% increase over uh the previous year and police is representing a 10% uh increase over last year uh one thing I think it was in this this particular uh Department the number on the um f FRS Florida retirement system uh was a little in my mind not where I thought it should be a little bit higher than than what I would expect and so we're going to go be going back looking at that to verify those numbers so again this is a a process in progress and as we go through it we're trying to find to make sure that numbers that that we have are going to be good numbers going forward I laid out kind of the the overview of the uh positions within the uh police department that are going to be covered under these two budgets and then just some of the substantial substantial changes for fiscal year 2025 obviously the big one dispatch going to the county so uh what I've done is I've actually put the uh dispatch costs I've basically divided it between the police and fire so we get the fire you're going to see a number for them I split it going into this 65 35 um that's probably not going to be the final you know a couple years from now when we look at this that probably won't be the same split as we see today um but we'll be working to you know make that a very accurate or as accurate as possible number going forward um but we put the number for the county in the Professional Services in this this account one of the things I understand I I don't have the ability to change line item names or create them so I had to kind of put a mid areas I would never usually I wouldn't put it in a Professional Services I would have contractual Services line account like you'll see in the fire but in police for some reason it didn't exist so I couldn't create it so this year it's going in Professional Services in the police department and then the only uh well another thing with with that is also you know we're going to be reclassifying at some point the dispatchers from dispatchers to whatever it is we're going to be calling them um I just put in there again for my own purposes a name I have it as a police aid but again that's not going to be the final uh name of that it's just again the placeholder from from my standpoint and then the only other thing is uh within the changes dramatic changes is that uh of course the contract with the PBA called for a three and a half% wage increase for the officers and I'm going to shut up for a second turn over to the chief see if he has any comments or anything on the budget and then once he's done we'll open it up for [Music] questions as far as the budget increases obviously going to be salaries and benefits majority of we did uh at one point request an increase in the overtime only because the last year's budget was set before we got the PBA contract uh completed and signed and there was no compensation as far as the increase anytime anyone had to work overtime go to court or whatever so it was not enough money still not enough money in the budget to compensate for that so we asked for an increase in that line item and everything else is pretty much status quo um except for the Marine unit we did asked to double that because of vessel but it was only $3,000 last year anyway really don't have too many increases as far as operational costs but you'll see that in in the coming meetings um before I open up for questions on this um I also point out you know as as you look at the current budget as well as actuals from previous years um in in different line items you'll see you know the numbers being you know less than what you would predict I'm assuming that you know when it comes to salaries um both in dispatch and police you know there were a number of open positions at different points and times so that's going to have an impact on what is actually spended out spent out on on those line items related to benefits as well as the actual salaries of course the other side is probably going to see higher overtime in those those years as well that kind of offset a little bit of that but that was one of the things I know you when you when you look at how you know to project forward um kind to look at what the last several years numbers are and one of the things that's kind of striking in in our budgets to me is how how little prct ability there is from year to year in in the line items that makes it a little bit more difficult I think in creating a good predictive model um going forward but uh you know again we're all kind of new so uh we're going to start with a different set of eyes and look at how to make that fiveyear projection which I'm trying to build work with the numbers we have in the past so that questions can you gooll back to the Staffing number the SL so positions here does that reflect all of the um with the dispatch changing that's how many AIDS we there's somebody part-time and I forget what the Staffing you had laid out for that yeah so this this does reflect that so uh based upon the uh the projected post consolidation um we would have four again whatever you want to call those positions um full-time and two being effectively budgeted two in part-time wages but again I think uh the number actual number is less in a full-time position can't remember what what that number is I since it was across the board 23 24 25 there was no change yep yep and so our our current Staffing we are down two one officer two officers just one and and as far as the dispatch AIDS I guess we're down four three we have three four okay everything else is filled yeah um was there any discussion about adding potential Corporal positions in the budget well there there is the way that the the chief does it so I believe on the on the position description for the detective that's considered a Corporal position so there is already you know the thought process involved with that I know that's something you've you've talked to me about saying you know that could be a way to to help in retaining officers right because they can't move anywhere until they make sergeant and there's also some my understanding some supervisor capabilities if the Sergeant's not on side or whatever they can do some supervisor stuff which would be probably helpful for some of the officers El questions so what you're saying then is the only person that is eligible for that is the detective so there's just one correct yeah yeah so it's again and I don't know the significance of this I just know that in in the position descriptions for our Police Department if you look the detective position is Detective SL corpal again I I don't know necessarily if it if it you know it is paid differently than the others um but outside of that I don't know what the significance of that that title is well the expert is sitting right here so maybe none of us here experts so the detective corpal position if you will is also has the capability to be a supervisor matter of fact she probably going to be supervising a road tomorrow um there is a PO potential for another corpal position but that is not until we get a second canine we get second canine then there'll be a a possibility for a second corporal's position would a Corporal position in our city be beneficial to our officers in your opinion it could it could be um I think before I arrived here they had a couple of Corporal positions um in lie of Sergeant positions but once I did once I did arrive here there were already there were no corpal there were just four Sergeant so we brought back the detective as a Corporal as a quasi and looking as possibly doing another corpor I said as a k9 is that a is a Corporal range a different pay range or is it within one of these that we have listed here a slight increase significant or just you know it's not significant not significant okay all right thank you I have the same sort of question about the can9 officer you don't have that listed here we don't that the K9 Officer hasn't been replaced yet correct no and that person is not listed differently no all of our officers are their primary function is Patrol their ancillary Duties are marine or traffic or canine so you said we're missing one is that the one we're missing the canine Officer said okay and I have one more question about wages I don't know about the police I don't I have not spoken to anybody I've spoken to other employees after our increase last year it was my understanding that everybody was getting increases last year and in fact that did not happen every employee did not get wage increases last year from what I'm being told so does this every every police officer will get a 3.5 wage increase or is it depending on like some people were like they changed positions and so therefore even though they were here for an extended period of time their position change did not allow them to get an increase and they did not so I I kind of really well I don't have details because I don't recall because this has been told to me over the past nine months multiple times police is a negotiated contract right so it follows whatever the [Music] again whatever range that they fall in whichever step that's that's where they would be I just want to make sure our employees I mean our employees are our key to running this city and I want to make sure our employees are taken care of so um if we can I don't know make sure that our employees are taken care of financially because I know I would want to be if I was well I am an employee so just that's going to be my consistent question throughout this is our employees and just my understanding wasn't here I know you w that's why my understanding is every employee didn't get they did not maybe afterward you can let me know who it is we well I don't know I'd have to go I mean like again this has been discussed over nine months people have been mentioning this to me so I'd have to go back and sure or we can pull the rolls and see we can we can pull it and see who got it and maybe they're pulling my leg I don't know you got you have the black and white yeah I can easily do that's what I [Music] say I would really like that because I really want to make sure that they're taking care of because they take care of me thank you ask one more question on on the Corporal thing I know I kind think about this from the military there's certain there's certain ways you can kind of progress within your rank obvious you have that too among the different positions or whatever if we were to if we look at because I think it's a concern and obiously we don't we don't pay the gr here pay the best here to city and so if the better career path we can provide more longevity we can expect out the employees to stay if they if there's a place to go and like I said we've got four sergeants here and those are all occupied there's no upper Mobility until one of those leave or the one detective is is is coral something that we could look at as being if you've been here a certain amount of time you you need the qualifications that you could progress with that and not necessarily cap that as a certain number like we can only have two corpal so in theory we could have everybody could be cor if they stayed with us long enough but they would they would operate without the supervisor capability unless it was needed you follow what I'm saying it's kind of like another step in as an officer you can move to Corporal but you only you only use responsibility if you are in a situation where you need that where you're you only like if you're heal like five years you become a Corporal or whatever I'm not I'm not recommending it it would be a given time frame if if a person stays with the department and they're eligible to move up but there's no spot above them that Corporal is always at least that's available to move into I've never seen that in a professional name only or would it be be also I I've never seen that in a professional setting that does not make any sense well if you think about on smaller smaller scale things you may have a finance director that doesn't have necessarily a whole staff of people underneath them it just it's they kind of do it all again I don't I don't know in certain instances when when you have small entities you can you aggress to a title that doesn't [Music] necessarily that's not it's it's it's not like you you can only have two Corp in this instance you can only have two corporals you could have um all your off theoretically all your off could progress to that if they were and we wouldn't have any officers they would be corals it's just you know it's kind of like in a military you have uh you go up to E4 and then at that point you switch over to a non-commissioned officer but you could pretty much progress up that you can be E1 E2 E3 E4 now we have I think we have time and grade for officer right so many years that's how they're Bas but they're always an officer whereas this would be r it's not necessarily A a limited position he runs the department I would leave that up to your discretion as to how you want to run the department I don't I'm ask change you're right I just I just is that is that something we can is that even plausible yeah I'm not a police officer I don't know if that's something that's practiced at all more appropriate more people in other words if the community increases and it requires to increase our manpower to correlate with that increase in population then we could look at something like that but the way we pres constructed I okay just I know it's important to have career progression thanks I got a I got a question on this 28 Lisa brought up we got an unfilled position are all our positions in the 28th or is there 29 and what's what 28 is the maximum number that's our that's our H Max budgeted number so we're actually running at 27 and what's in bed in the budget is [Music] 28 that's what I want thanks [Music] department so budgeted last or this year is 1. 288 673 um which is an 8% increase over the current year budgeted and I've provided you a uh layout of the Staffing numbers that we have uh within the budget this real quick so some of the the changes to keep in mind again we have the dispatch going to the county the contractual Services we've added 32,200 to for the fire department share of those costs and uh although it doesn't seem like a big number I think from a standpoint of what it means capability of wise it is an important thing is that we are in the process of moving to ALS and uh I wanted to call that out um by saying that there's a little bit of an increase in the medical supplies because of that turn it over to who wants to talk not him [Laughter] right you know Tom ran a pretty tight request across the board there's not really ni changes at all the only things when you look at this that may flag your eye is most of them hman already mentioned it's the uh the line item for dispatch and then the the line item for the supplies and most of that's the cost of of drugs they're expensive to get but um so most of those costs are going to be for the drugs and some of those alss medical supplies that we need he also added a line item for the boat that may catch your eye for uh the shared use the boat and shared expenses and costs associated with that and then uh only other thing that may also jump out at you is when you look in the parttime salaries line item uh that number went up significantly rejected but we had dropped it some um well that's that process of us trying to find out whatever happened to and reinstitute the deputy chief position that we had lost so we been that those numbers we're coming from is the uh increase in the inspection fees that we had added you'll see that number and then um that's coupled with our part-time salaries itself so that increase in that number and then that slight drop was we had a projected cost we weren't sure what that was going to be I came in a little bit lower uh so Mr cobbler had lowered that number to a more reasonable number to make sure that we're in line and in budget but that's what that's for right currently that's budgeting a part-time fire inspector again with our longer AR range goal trying to fill that position that we had lost a long time ago and meanwhile us trying to find ways to fun that that's the only other things that everything else is almost exact other than routine cost increases supplies or whatever it may be with the uh with the new fire inspection fees and stuff like that are we recognizing addition Revenue going forward next [Music] yes so got yeah you've incurred [Music] 17,000 it's actually a little bit higher than that I think there a little little bit of a delay actually comes in so when it actually hits that well I know that's the difference between Cash basis accounting and a cruel basis account so this is what was in the books at the time I got the numbers so 17 and uh budgeted last year was 36k you're budgeting 25k this year so your increment is a little less than last year but you're a little more agressive certainly out there and beat the bushes and and so with with with that you know is I think there's there's hope in there's reality in in trying to predict future revenues and um I think maybe the number in the current year was the hope more so than what the reality is this number that that I put in reflects more of the reality but I still have hope um and you'll see mostly in in revenues I'm not going to budget the top number that I think is going to be there and a budget number that I think is obtainable um and so that one I I think the first year is always the rough year in in establishing it the one from the standpoint of getting people used to what they have to pay so it takes a little bit more time to you know get those monies in took time to get the program rolled out you know there's just a lot of lost time um and so I think there is hope hope that we'll do better in upcoming years I'm just not ready to budget hope this year I'm more I'm optimistic we'll we'll do better than what I have here but but I think it's a good number that you can stand on and look and say okay this this is a reasonable number to no 25 I think that's right on Target on the 17 puts us at 20 almost 22 so that's a little bit of bump I think that's a good number I turned it green did you good you know that's got questions you dising I mean this is your baby all the other increases are just general across the board increases that predicting know 3 to 5% same thing with salaries thank you [Music] squeaky chair go did you budget for that did not WD40 probably $8 a bottle now I give you mine sir I wore my speaker up I don't sit still we good with fire okay go something else before they talk ask for some more St stuff they never do that so then we're moving to uh building department and code enforcement and again in in this particular presentation I've just kind of lumped them together but trying to break them out and so we'll we'll go Department by Department here but again just trying to have fewer slides um building department uh you'll see that the proposed fy2 is 47 1,440 and you know you may be knocked back by that 38% increase but it's explainable um and then on Code Enforcement uh the proposed fy2 is 10,249 which is actually a decrease over uh the budgeted FY 24 again we can explain that um I think as you look at the uh position table here uh what I want to draw your attention to if it has already been drawn to it is uh two positions one the building inspector code enforcement and then the code enforcement officer you can see that um looking at the code enforcement officer line you see there was one in 23 two budgeted for the current fiscal year but next year is only one um what I've done is uh in looking at the oper of the Departments the nearly 10 months I've been here um the the need I believe that is going the need in the department is one that I can't justify 100% of a code enforcement officer but what I can see the need for is kind of this hybrid position where we have a building inspector uh competency as well as code enforcement um that's going to give us a couple it's going to give us some flexibility both on the code enforcement side to do some of uh you know picking up some of the things that can be done on the code enforcement aspects but even more so looking at our building department and seeing you know if if it's our intentions to change um you know the way that we go about doing business would want to be I think the term is business friendly people like to use um you know it does take additional Staffing to do those things and on the building side I believe you know having someone that can do Building Inspections um will not only allow us to do more and spend more effort with individuals that are coming in for their building permits and such but also free up a little bit more time of our building official to do some of the things he's doing now that you know are kind of being either lost or slowed down you know as we look at as an example as we look at the code changes that we've been talking about and and we haven't even scratched the surface on on the code changes yet um you know it takes hours upon hours to go through these and make the changes um Mike has to be pulled six seven different directions you know could be in a meeting with me could be planning all these all these things that he's away from doing his main duty which is you know doing Building Inspections working with uh the residents working with contractors you know gets pulled away from and so I think a better use of the money um is to to look at that that hybrid position of a building inspector code enforcement person um the difference is that it's a little bit more expensive than than the uh Code Enforcement office officer because again we're going to be getting someone with licenses that that we wouldn't been asking for under the code enforcement officer and just so you know the numbers we have in the budget uh for next year um you know there's about an $8,000 difference between a code official and this building inspector uh concept so I'll let Mike maybe talk a little bit more about that uh but not yet just kidding just kidding I just want to go through a couple other things real quick um another cost that was added to this year's budget uh you'll remember that Council approved the city uh starting with Forerunner which is the flood plane management software that we're in the process of implementing right now that's a 14,000 plus dollar increase to the budget um and then second thing that really is one of the big big costs in this is we're placing $50,000 in contingencies from the building reserve and this this represents something that actually uh when Rachel was here we we had a lot of dialogue on this because historically what would happen is there would be something that that would come up and we would say oh we'll take that from the building Reserve ultimately there has to be an adjustment to the budget usually that's done at the end of the year right but in the course of the year you're going to be running dtive so our our way to solve that is okay we're going to budget a contingency doesn't mean we're going to use it it just means it's there it's covered within in the budget so you know that it's there the Auditors know it's there um and we can use it if if the need rise so it's just really from our perspective a better better way to handle a practice that's been done in the past that is a little bit more transparent because again your perspective you don't see those expenditures until the end when we have to do a budget adjustment and and to me that's not the way we need to do it so using the contingencies the better way you know it's there and we save time going doing those budget amendments every time that's that was really the choice that laid out is either we have to come up with another way to find the budget or to budget that or we need to do the Amendments every time we're going to use it now slow it [Music] down that being said now like do to the I didn't see any you mentioned about potenti resource yeah so so early on is you know there's there's two needs that I see within the building you know one was this position the one that was in my mind early on was planning person as well um don't get me wrong I still think there's there's a need for that in what we're doing um as as you know you see what we're doing right now going through all these different planning processes you know it's either we have an employee doing it or we're having consultant and having consult through most of most of the workpl honestly it it comes down to you know a budget number would love to have both in there but I think this one actually achieves more goals in terms of developing the interaction with our residents and contractors and businesses in a way that makes more sense than than what you planner it and later on we'll talk a little bit about another position to you that actually you know could fill that role as well [Laughter] color just to pick it back on what I was saying statute changed last year to where we can building officials now we can bring on a provisional basically I can train them teach them and everything and they can have a provisional license through State through dbpr it could be anywhere from six months it could be anywhere to two years provisional license expires in two years so they get the training basically an on the job training mentored by myself and take the testing and everything else like that it's a full license they would basically work under my license while they're doing it as as my shadow by doing it this way we can stay within the parameters of keeping both a code enforcement and an inspector as a dual role because to get a fully licensed building inspector right now is about $80,000 a year that's what it costs that's the going rate for a building inspector right now City so by I talked to Matt by doing it this way it keeps our budget down it gives me a little bit of reprieve on my end to where I can get further into the codes get further into the statutes get more into the could be more potential Development coming in and dealing with residents and contractors on a more basis because right now the only time I can really meet with businesses and stuff is I don't do inspections on Fridays because that's when I do most of my appointments residents contractors anybody else unless I can fit it in somewhere in the schedule so I went to Matt a while back and I said look can we do this possibility to do this just to give us give me a little bit more help because a lot of the stuff I'd say 90% of the stuff last night 80% of the stuff that's in building department has to be done by somebody who's license so that's helping me out and then it's also helping us out on the code side too because code and building Works hand in hand just like we do with PD and just like we do that's kind of like that's a great approach let me let me just add another another of Mind piece of this is also that it does set up the possibility of session the M Cas M must retire someday it it does start because you know if you haven't heard this um you know building officials are very expensive and the reason that they're very expensive because they have great past [Music] um is is because there are fewer and fewer of those available and any way you know cities can can help start you know building the capacity within and moving up I think makes a lot of sense so you know as Mike's saying that you know maybe shortterm you know we can get by with the costs we're having um but you know my thought is if we know hire someone in this position and and we really want to keep them we have to be thinking down the road two to three years that we're probably when they get fully licensed start moving them up and again I think with development uh moving forward in the city in some capacity hopefully you know it'll be worth you know we'll have the financial capacity to absorb that cost it's like somebody working under a construction somebody else's construction license it's basically the same thing training and and they work their way up until they can do the T there's multiple ways there's doing it that way we can do a two-year intern program or something this is this is easiest way and piggyback and I said if I have to go because I have to do a certain amount of continuing education hours and and keep up on everything else just like you guys do so if I'm out there's nobody doing inspections right this way if we got somebody who can fall under that or we're Contracting out to where I came from a from a private provider that I was doing inspections and stuff of the city and as your inter and building official you're paying them $140 to $150 an hour with a 4 hour minimum so this way somebody's in place we can mentor them I can mentor them get them through the process build them up so like said eventually fill in in my in my absence or eventually take over and the difference is between between that with with bringing somebody in and training them it's just said $8,000 difference that that difference is between code Force officer concept and this this concept right yeah $8,000 difference to change yeah instead of just doing one code enforcement officer period and still being in the same now we have a dual rooll that we can make that work and can cover when you're off or out or correct a question uh you know we we have a revenue component here for all the permits and those kinds of things as well um know we we have a run rate of around 330 what I'm sorry I couldn't hear you with the air condition a run rate which is what is used to project where you're going to land for the total year so that would be where we end up of 330,000 and then right here we've got about 517,000 that we're proposing and you're projecting about 3 for next year so that that leaves a little bit of shortfall but essentially if we're going to be in a development mode your department in fact could totally be covered by permits correct well that that is the goal um I think this year we're probably going to be more than what we're projecting or what the budget is for this year cost wise I think yeah I think we're going to be up around that 400,000 bar right depending on how things going the last couple months but I'm pretty sure we're going to be there but yes that that is our goal is to try to get and I guess the other the other piece of this is something that we're talking about as well is we're looking at our building permit fees and we're going to be reviewing those as part of this budget process so before we get to the end we'll have a a recommendation on that as well because it's been when when when were the updated last 21 I think 20 or 21 2021 I think I think the last Fe schedule I saw was was in 21 but the city manager per our code we're supposed to be doing it by annually so we're jump included in that too no like you mentioned it a different review yeah that that is something that we have to look at as well because that's that's been uh a long time coming as well I don't know if I can be that aggressive get that done for this year but we'll see any else that moving on so then everything else gets lumped in together I didn't want to break it down because I have to cover all these um obviously uh Council and talk about that has a slight increase uh for the upcoming year compared to FY 24 City management uh 181 265 uh a little bit of a decrease from current Year's Budget Finance again has shows a decrease going from uh I can't see the numbers from here for some reason go over here well paper well I see I made a mistakes there it's actually probably a 1% increase from what's budgeted last year to this year City attorney we're keeping at the same rate as uh at least in the general fund as uh the previous year it shows a little bit of an increase uh General government which there's a number of things that I will get into here in a little bit talk about uh with a little bit of increase as well uh Human Resources Little increase there um grants shows a significant decrease but we just uh in the current year that 200,000 is what was budgeted for our Safety Action Plan through the Safe Streets for all uh we've kind of went back and forth it looks like we're going to be able to get that project underway in this year so those numbers will or acrw into next year uh but we don't have the budget for it um Public Works we'll get into when we talk about utilities so we're not going to talk about tonight other economic um and this is one of the things if you look at the sheet that I handed out at the table that shows the uh that first one right there which shows the all funds uh what do you call this the uh breakdown of employee funding sources all funds uh at the very last position on that table have to turn the page over uh under the CRA resiliency I'm proposing a CRA coordin coordinator resiliency officer um and in that particular economic uh other economic would be the uh General funds contribution to that position which effectively is a 10% of the wages and benefits I'll get again I'll talk more about that I think when we get into the CRA meeting a little bit later on um not today but the next one um how how I Envision that will work with uh every everything in terms of what our needs are going forward um Public Health uh things like um mosquito control you'll find in there cost for that animal control as well and then contingencies and again we'll look at that if there's any question on those um kind of lay out the position chart as well to show you that there is a slight increase in the uh positions and again it's that CRA coordinator resiliency officer position which is 0.1 10% of of a total employee that's charged to the general fund and some of the the big changes again um it's kind of affecting the the general fund 5% increase in health insurance uh we are getting especially in the general government uh cost center uh a decrease in workers C going from 80 down to 60 uh increase in the property liability but as I said before the the actual cost of the policies are going to be less than than what we're paying the current year is just that run out that is uh making that more expensive uh I did put money in for your consideration uh for an addition of a lobbyist uh I think that's one of the things that if if we're serious about trying to get uh funding through the state government you know in in their process C for local funding or through the federal process either earmarks or grants you know that's what cities are doing in Florida they're paying for a lobbyist and and I actually spread that out over three different funds uh besides the general fund that's also in CRA as well as the Utility Fund so I would estimate that to be a little over $40,000 to uh fund that and then again there's increase in City events in the general government fund uh for the fourth and Centennial and then you know it's kind of difficult to figure out what what that number should be for Centennial because we haven't met yet so we don't know exactly what those those plans are but I know um we should have the first meeting coming up in August so we'll at least have some idea before this budget's over kind of the brand ideas that the Centennial committee is going to have for the next year so with that there's a lot of funds there not a lot of fun but a lot of funds I don't know if you want to talk about any in particular Council I believe have to get here council is should be the very early on I don't know if it's page three or four four six close yes um one of the things that that uh we did on in terms of the increase is on the uh training um I've increased it to from the budget of 28 to 40 five uh that number probably this year is going I mean 45 probably wouldn't cut this year um I know that uh the mayor has taken advantage of a number of trainings I don't think there's been too much by any other council members I don't know if there's an intent to do more that's kind of I guess what I'm trying to drive out tonight is if there is a desire to do more training going to the different uh for Le of City events like that it would be good to maybe speculate today so I could adjust that going forward that emo class in [Music] October October 11th I think it is it's going to be in Tampa as one I mentioned you guys want email one there's two of them Emil one emo two uh explain em it's Institute for elected Municipal officials uh takes you through different aspects of of local government budgeting process uh Planning and Zoning there's there's different modules you look at that online that different things but the first one covers the first part of it and then emo2 picks up where that left off and gets a little bit more in both some of the stuff pling zoning is Big module and that um and that one's always I think alamont Springs is the closest one that but the first one actually they rotate Tampa one the sides so that one you go to without having her hotel cost I think it's $300 I think for that class I can't remember the $300 to $500 for that class [Music] but just trained you on some of the stuff that we deal with day in the day out the budget so these are you know I I cannot explain that I was complaining the same thing when I printed off what is going on this sure what I would ask is if someone go I just recently found out that were taking advantage um what I would ask is that I'm sorry what I would ask is if one of us cannot go to one of these things that we bring back to the group what we've Le what you've learned what we've learned because I think that's real important and I don't know if there's um anything against that within the Florida League of cities that you cannot bring it back to the group but I think you know having five of us go I mean I have a job so sometimes I can't make it um but certainly I would want to to learn that stuff and and have the ability to to look at the information and and and learn from it as well so I would ask if anybody goes to these fun and and educational things that we are able to bring it back I don't know if it has to be in a for Le like this or can you just share the you know the written information that would be a Nancy question but I certainly would appreciate um that in the future one of the things I'd actually brought back was to potentially get someone here in house actually do Planning and Zoning training not only for Council but also planning zoning board members as well I don't know you to that at all but that would be something different than actual Council training so um from a council training perspective there's those two classes emo1 emo2 after that they have they recurring advanc class they cover different topics I've not been to that yet so I don't know um but the first two classes I would recommend everybody take good information and you know I would I mean I could bring back and have not the it's not the same it's not the same not everybody so I mean any information is better than no information yeah I had the books be having to share those too you kind go through material slides I have those but uh I mean if it's something you can't in it's it's it's well worth it while I said it's not a lot of of cost um the uh the other aspect of those are the the count the um Flor Le of cities conven West is coming up um here in mid August um you know there's there's a lot of networking opportunities obviously to happen there with other cities and whatnot they it's an organization that that we pay dues to that help Advocate issues and then an extension of that they have legislative action days advocacy advocacy conference and stuff like that and you get together and and work on that obviously with us looking at getting a lobbyist is key to to doing that I give you example at the legislative action days I think went to Tallahassee um when Mike Moore for City of Newport Richie went up there lobing for the firehouse money $1.2 million they got um they had the entire Council there met with the legislators as well and it just so that presence is important as you try to get those those fundings you go up there you meet the legislators they see that hey you're you're up here you're taking initiative to talk I went up there singly for the city to Lobby the three that we had but again we didn't have the power of a lobbyist um and and all that stuff that goes on with that it was just me up there you know I shook eder's hand's hand few the others went around we advocated on Stu that the leag was putting out there about there was a bill that was going to take away the 25% up charge on the water usage people outside the city which that would be impact was that was a large impact weally stopped that from happening leag did as well as but people going up there and and lobbying those legislators very important to keep stuff from that happening and then as we go forward as we try to procure funding it would be good if we had you know at least one of us SCH up there but obviously the more the the marer if we provide a united front I know that whatever lobbyist we end up bringing on they would want us up there to do that so that's kind of what this budget item would assist with I mean I would think we should increase it again if there's a commitment there the stuff I say happens if you're working that you would have to like I use vacation BS to go stuff the florid Le City conference for example um and I'm part of the florid League of Mayors so we have an event the day before in the same place so I'm there it's coming up uh actually I'll leave Tuesday night after our council meeting Wednesday is the Flor Mayers and then the confer is Thursday Friday Saturday so it does it's during the day so if you work fulltime you can't take time off then I be difficult but um it all depends on the participation I would uh I would ask everybody to take advantage if they could obviously work comes first so if you can't make that you as long as we have somebody covering up there on our behalf it's it's a good thing so I don't really know what how much maybe you guys are interested could you let us know is that something you would be able to attend some of these things or if you just can't do it that kind of depends on how much we need to put in there I guess right heardred last year this year $4,300 we budgeted 28 you know kind of blew through that but like you said it's it's a worthwhile effort he budgeted 4500 for now next year do you want to leave it at that or which is about the Run rate and you've been the only one really participating right right and if more of us are going to participate then obviously the number would need to go up little say was 43 you're to date it's 4383 it's probably going to be grand yeah well the conference coming up in August is this year's budget too yes yeah but that's a local one right it's it's in Orlando I'm sorry it's in Hollywood actually I thought it was in Tampa well this is the October one emo I've already attended that so I this I'm talking about the Florida Le City conference which is in August so you're going to incur another piece so that's going to push it up to whatever three [Music] days gotot there going to be the big cost right you know $1,000 a night at the Beach I get it [Music] yeah I think putting it in the budget isn't a bad idea so I just think we all need to be cognizant of it I mean um I didn't know that we had a budget for this yeah I'm on the council longer than anybody and I would have been nice to have known that that we can even go over budget um you know that that just would have been nice but um when I when I got elected actually Nance had reached out about going to the emo1 class down in um it was trael somewhere down yeah there and I looked and I noticed that there was going to be one Tampa and so I said well I'll wait till October whatever go to one Tampa so there's no hotel cost I can drive down there so I did that unfortunately and I done I would have done the same for the emo too but there they never bring it to tampo so alont Springs was the closest beses there's no option there the other stuff was just the the annual conference and that like I said those happen every year and um you know yeah we should all really be there most I mean we're small City so um it makes it tough but as much as we can participate in these things it's it's important so and there's there's cost [Music] associate wel come up with the proposed and we'll see we'll go from that I mean this is not the end of the budget so I'm I'm totally in for tion and I think we need that and absolutely bring something forward very good and hope is obviously that that pays dividends with money coming from the state federal government because you know they see you they shake your hand they're more up to push to have that money come down here and it was a lot of learning obviously that process that I mean just to go and and be a part of that where you meet with the different uh legislators it's very worthwhile to kind of know how that portion of it works we we kind of sit here and we hope to to get some of that stuff but all the stuff that they're working on um those different bills that impact us greatly like I said we had that one with the 25% if we was to lose that that's a significant Revenue hit that we would have to make up for somewhere um and there's you know other things that talk about the uh short-term rentals and there's all kind of bills we kind of hear about those as they all pass but that's opportunity to be up there and and say hey this this how this affects my city um this going to cost us this so if you if you guys enact this vote for this it's going to take a hit to our budget we're going to have to raise taxes to make the shortfall so it's they need to hear that stuff from local cities because a lot of times they're up there you know un let's they came from a background municipal government you know they're just you know they got a much larger constituency and they aren't necessarily thinking about what individual cities need to do to to run effectively so they preempt us from some things which is a bad thing because that didn't takes the power out of our hands uh to where we can't legislate those things so it's there's a lot of things up there that we need to be engaged with to prevent bad things from happening later hopefully that helps I agree TR should be in there I agree um moving on General Administration fund so it's uh covers the positions again on the uh the list of breakout so General Administration will cover the city manager operations manager City Clerk and Grant coordinator um not too much difference here um from previous year uh again you know the I I'm just I'm curious about the uh some of the different numbers in here that I want to go back and check again on like the retirement contributions I mean something doesn't look right to me and I don't know if it's historically the numbers were off or they're off now um so that number may change but I'm still looking into that but from the operating expenditure there really not much difference from the other than down the previous any questions if uh Finance real quick uh again a slight increase uh in total over last year really not uh much operational difference uh um one of one of the things that we we talked about and we're looking at of course is the uh change over in our financial package and um everything we looked at generally Falls within the dollar amounts we're already paying for um Black Mountain which is our our financial package what isn't covered in there is the change over from this to actually implementation that's where you start seeing a significant difference you know some of them could be as low as 15 to 20,000 some of them aren't north of 80 to 90,000 um and so one of the things that we didn't talk about as part of the CIP that we're going to regroup on um at another meeting is looking at funding those implementation cost through penny for p St so just something to talk about at that point but if we're going to be doing it we're going to be spending implementation fees unfortunately um just to let you all know so that that emo one those are always on a Friday Saturday so it is only one day during the work week so it's and the one for October is October 4th and 5ifth thank you what dat fourth and 5th so Friday Saturday 4th and 5ifth and it's at the embassy SES in Tampa $300 is what covers the cost it's it be 300 a person $1,200 we have all four yeah moving on the next fund is the uh City attorney the next uh account is City attorney um we're keeping that number the same for this year um I think that you know this is one of those numbers that that you know I've been going back and forth with increasing not increasing um originally this number was higher I've taken it back down um I could recommend before this is all over that we take it back up um but at a normal on a normal month with some of the changes that we've made in terms of operations so one you know we we've been looking at different ways to try to reduce costs without reducing Effectiveness and so you know like lining up Planning Commission with Council meetings so in doing that it reduces travel time right for when they one was on a Thursday one was on a Tuesday you know we are getting hit with you know four hours of travel um and so lining those thing up so those those types of efficiencies that we could find we've been doing it you know uh meetings that in the past may have been done in person where the City attorney would come here you know we're doing more with zoom um so we've been trying to reduce those down so with that that concept you know I was seeing a couple months in the 13 to 14,000 a month range which you know would fit within that easily fit within the 80,000 here and of course you know this is the the attorney costs or spread general fund CRA Utility Fund storm water yes and and so unfortunately the last couple months we've been using a lot of City attorney time because we've been do a lot of changing the codes which is a costly Endeavor unfortunately um plus we get a little bit off of those efficiencies that you found because we need to have meetings off schedule with the city attorney so I'm going back and forth I I I think this is a good number I think um at the low end is a great number I just I have doubts right now so just be prepared if I I change next time to get together I'm looking at that too and if I agregate all those four funds that you're talking about we budgeted last year 160 um The Run rate that I'm projecting is about 186k so we're going to blow through that by about 25k um at that level and if we're going to be on track for that level does it make sense to pursue looking to hire fulltime some point in time you have to make or buy you know well I so the only the only thing that that I'm not sure that is you know what what can we get or what probably is what is the number that we'd be willing to sett right you know the number most likely is going to be if if it's a full-time position or is it part-time non benefited I think that that's a question to ask me um but you're probably you know in that 120 130 least wage wise get someone with least the experience that you want what's what's the run rate total that we're looking at for the attorney year I'm projecting 185 and that's only going back to January 148 that's so she fully baked in there so yeah 185 you said that's what I'm Pro that's given the average rate of 148k it's projecting that through the end year with 148,000 that we've occurred year to dat and if I run rate that through the end of the year assuming we're going to continue to user and actually we're going to be having a lot of meetings here so that should land around 185,000 and and I've asked the same question and the part that really troubles me is the amount of legal that we have to use that's an uncapped expense the way it is now we just keep if we hired somebody full-time you know we're capped at whatever say 130 140 and we actually they're dedicated to us and you know we don't uh we don't go over that whereas now we're at 140 already you need a couple extra meetings here and there the staff I mean it could go well above 185 so it's it's a very large variable expense I go ahead the City attorney is the only person that gets travel expenses is that the only person that gets travel expenses to come work here well she P hour rate to travel here yes it was in the contract and they wouldn't have they wouldn't have took the contract had it not been so you're saying you can get an attorney for $130,000 a year I think you're I I I don't think I'm not an attorney I don't even play with on TV but I think that's low ball I mean you're you're paying your what are you paying our finance director $130,000 a year you well if if if if I could give perspective Newport what they they have an arrangement with bris I want to say that's around 130 don't quote me it's not it's not over 140 but somewhere around that number and he's dedicated to the city on Tuesdays and Thursdays every week I don't know what other arrangements they have so it's not fulltime it's two days a week well it's it's full-time Tuesdays and Thursdays so what happens if you call him on Mondays he's still still fail but he's actually on site Tuesdays and Thursdays so still available for other things but he's actually on side City Hall Tuesday and Thursday out the meetings on Tuesdays whatnot but that's that's the arange again I don't know a whole lot of details behind that but that's what they [Music] do I just um I know we're losing using a lot I understand what she charges for I've kind of looked at that but we also use them she uses she has a lot of resources that she doesn't have have the answers to something which none of us have ansers to everything um she's she has resources behind her to answer a question she's got experts in many different areas behind her you hire a person that person does not have the answers to everything and so then you're going to have additional additional cost because that person will have to consult with another lawyer about XYZ and then so you might have a cost at 130 but then you're going to have Consultants along the way doing that I don't know I don't know if that's going to be financially a good decision or not and we have we have that today we don't use that firm for everything there's certain give you example we use it for no we have we we have other attorneys [Music] to we don't use trash for everything there's certain instan where they they don't cover we do something else and there's obviously with Nancy with the firm there's there's other attorneys in there that specialize different things that we may need but again we're we're paying that same hourly weate no matter what we so it would be that 210 or whatever it is we get those other attorneys again how that would work with a a full-time attorney um there may be some cost there I don't know yeah I mean that that's I think there's there's I know I really haven't research what other cities have done um you know I again I I think it seems like a lot I mean it seems like a lot to me because you know when I was in Michigan I was paying 120 bucks an hour right for for a City attorney so the costs out here are a lot different those places but but I think you know taking into account those differences use a lot but we don't use it as much think we use it really look at it you know would anybody we get in a different capacity would they be able to do all the things that that you know their firm is doing for us in terms of representing us the different types of things that we could and that's what you'd have to make sure of what you don't want to get someone that can only do half of what you're already doing and now you know your costs are UNCA on the other way which are a lot higher because you don't have a contractual you know number people locked in and and I'm sure you know the rate that they're charging us is not the rate that they charge someone walking off the street so I know before we had James I what his salary was I want to say it was around 100 something I don't know we were getting I know when we went this it was we were basically realizing it's going to be almost double cost because he was not charging us a lot and I had to get out and the what when he was here he was FY full-time right around the corner when we when he needed another attorney If he if we paid those expensive it'd be interesting I guess to look and see what some of the past Year's total legal fees were um with his Sal anything above and beyond that to kind of see where we're at I I kind of think it's two different animals Jim Matthew and I mean just totally you really can't compare and contrast the two great and and but he he was he's a Port Richie resident so I think a lot of stuff was um what do you call it um yeah fre yeah Pro boto thank you yes pro bono kind of like um so I I don't think you can compare the two I think if this is something seriously you're you're considering I think this is longer than a one or two meeting discussion I think this is maybe if you want to look at it for next year and and really investigate it and look at it I think that might be a better solution I I don't certainly don't want to make a h rash decision on such an important position as our attorney for the city which will protect us from anything I think that needs to be a much more indepth discussion and and um investigation to say yeah my suggestion was since I brought this up was there's a lot of cost here are we getting our bank for a buck should we consider other Alternatives yes and that's all I'm looking looking to do we can throw a number at it now we can leave it at 180 160 120 whatever we want but dur during the year do we consider other options maybe an option like Newport Richie's doing with two days a week maybe they maybe dris maybe he'd like to work here you know I don't know um the reality is is this an opportunity that we can look at going forward yeah and I I want to reiterate I'm not looking to make any rash decisions at all and I'll be first tell you I love Nancy and death nothing wrong with Nancy at all so it's has nothing to do with that no it's just it is a uncapped expense that we don't have a whole lot of control over and so let's just look at opportunities and see and maybe we decide what it's not worth the $10,000 a year we might save we should we should always look for we get better value we should so I think it's a great point but no no that that's all and and if we can think smarter and do things differently do you know you can say four hours a week or a month or whatever recording stopped that's a th that's $1,000 doll you know and we really we spend $1,000 a month just to get her here or oh right so if it was somebody local yeah we would have to travel that's been forunate part of it that's what it is because how how much of it is to travel yeah it's see it's hour each way so 4 420 so yeah oh 420 to get here for a meeting but if you do a zoom meeting then that yeah that's something we can definitely maybe we go into this with our eyes open know what happened last year we can change process and potentially have a savings there you so but like Matt said he's combining meetings on the same day and that that's making a difference too yeah so I do you want to leave it at 160 or 150 well I I you're still thinking yeah I'm still going back and forth I mean the other the other thing that that you know could impact this um I've talking to her about uh so you know another cost with uh with legal peace is our prosecutions for code cases you know we talked about what you know those costs are versus you know what we're we're coming back with and you know we've been discussing different ways that uh you know we can address those cases because a lot of the time um a lot there are a number of times when you know people won't show up and they'll end up getting an arrest warrant because they don't show up um or you know we decide that you know they've fixed whatever the issue is and you know we get rid of the the citation so one of the things that we were talking about is on the Tuesdays of a council meeting because she's been you know effectively coming up here early and we also schedule some of the in in-person meetings that we need to do um or if it's the the week with Planning Commission in between planning and the council meeting what we're talking about is kind of a a diversion program that you know those people that are going to get citations or have gotten citations um she meets with them and the building official or code official at that time to kind of go over what what the you know citation is see if it can be worked out um we think that there's Merit to that from the standpoint that you know people will obviously know that they have to go to court if you can't get it worked out which is one of the complaints we sometimes here is I didn't know why I had to go to court but if we could again divert some of those from not having to go to court that's less time that she'll be spending on those Thursdays for a execution and reduce our cost so I think there's there's some things that we're looking at further to help reduce what our overall cost structure is for the City attorney that I think will be more productive um you know if if we can get it so we don't have to send a resident to court and get compliance that I think is a better outcome so again it could reduce our costs in doing that one of the other things that I noticed um I didn't see any legal cost going directly into the building or code enforcement fund or right um so is there going to be an attempt to try to drive some of that in that direction and kind of see because if there are costs legal cost attached to that it ought to surface there yeah um it would it would be good to be able to do that I think the weakness right now we have is the way that the billing happens is we don't we don't have good accounting for it we have a certain accounting of it but we don't have a compl of it you mean when when they invoice us yeah well if you don't pay them then they're going to ask questions and then you start get done that dialogue process but if if they know that we need a breakdown like if we're taking people to court for code violation and just indicate that they ought to be able to a no attorney they keep track of every 15 minutes and the way it comes on the bill right I he invoices they're pretty detailed aren't they they're getting better I mean I they're they're not where that we would like them yet but they are getting better I mean we we've had those discussions you know to try to get a little bit more because you might remember that that remember back they would be just kind of groups of things they' be like $500 and then maybe three or four things listed there and and so we've been trying to get those broken out to be more okay this is a Code Enforcement case so we can identify at least the case with with the cost but there's still costs you know associated with um questions that are coming from code or building department that we're not capturing that's that's the area that we just don't have a good a good handle on yet would it would it be helpful to I don't if they do this or not but provide kind of our categories our cost centers so that when when they invoice they actually tie it to our cost center so that it's easier for us to allocate as opposed to going through the invoice and trying to figure it out ourselves yeah well I think I think when when we're able to to run we can do that but we're still crawling so we've talked about a magistrate in the past where are we with that uh that that is kind of long jammed waiting to get to council to start talking about I mean you know actually uh we have a list much like what you guys asked for at the last meeting dates everything um and there's like six things that we need to get in front of you guys and it's just you know trying to help cut the attorney cost down as well so that's that's something that we've brought up but we haven't moved forward yet with that exactly and that and that you know that conversation about the um the court cases and verting that really is an interim step to that because we knew that there would be a time it would take to do all those things so we need to get in front of you we just haven't found the time to get that there thank you on um info technology in a slide increase on that one not really anything's hopefully that the recabling stuff that they talked about that's no that's in the penny for Pasco that's right this does You Know cover the ongoing cost of the once we have transitioned hopefully very shortly to uh the new environment uh this fund will reflect those costs new website in here uh yes I believe that is the uh one of the things that uh also occurred in this is as we're moving to the new environment we were we were using laser fe uh as [Music] our archive um unfortunately to have it still work in the new environment we were going to have to upgrade that there was going to be an expensive cost so we decided to uh not use that or looking at different alternatives for our archives now we feel that actually with some of the applications we have with the micr Office Products will be able to do the same thing and that's was somewhere in the neighborhood of six or 7,000 saving over the what's the Professional Services yeah so most of that is the uh Thrive that new security security the you know the servers in the cloud then um we have the large General government accountants and I've already talked about really the the major things here one the change in the workman comp going down um also the cost for the liability insurance going up to the car this year overall be a decrease talking about here in the 328 Professional Services we added 135 for the lobbyist if you want to proceed with [Music] that and then uh the $40,000 we there for the got 20 yeah I mean that's just again a fny number but that's how I broke it down Christmas gift certificate employees can we increase that well from zero to something well it's it's been zero forever no it's only been zero since 21 that's a big dissatisfier that's why I've heard from the employees a lot it's not a lot of money well it's it's not necessarily the cost the issue is legality of being able to do that this is something actually that uh internally we talked a little bit about in terms of ways to improve the organization um I know was stock like shows there in 2021 talking with City attorney she FS that that there are legal issues with City spending money and giving gifts to the employees we're we're trying to figure out the ways to handle that thing going forward did she explain or elaborate on why that would be uh she did I don't have in front of me so I'm not going to try to attempt all that get [Music] that theard well every every State's a little bit different um you know when when I was in Ohio there was no issues with it in York um you know they started York wasn't an issue in Connecticut do it but it had to be approved by the city council document effectively um then with an accounting of what the expenditures are for in Michigan it was a flat no you couldn't do it at all because within their their constitution they had what they called a gifting prohibition and so couldn't give anything of value to resident or a business or even an employee other than what is considered a a regular benefit so each state looks at it differently and and so that's the question that I did ask I will get you that answer off the top of my head I can't remember exactly what the logic was but she felt that there was not a good good ground stand on with doing that I'd like to know what change [Music] 20 details please any other questions on that the storm water utility expans that was a large yep that uh is a result of the discussions at the last meeting going from the 95 per unit to 1220 um I will say that I don't believe that number is an accurate number and I say that only because as I Was preparing that line item I noticed how um some of our parks utilities are being charged to a different fund and I need to find out why that was first and probably making that adjustment later on in the budget process so this this really only accounts for City Hall and fire department but none of the parks and there is a charge or at least there are esus charged to the par S as well so we adust those to 40,000 no 40 City yeah the actual it started yeah it started not a problem I think that's that's the number that is get in especially in centes up both from we're going to be doing things and that we're getting um you know revenues in sponsorships as well thank you you know looks looks like the Run rate on this is going to come under we're going to land under where we were budgeted by you know couple hundred thousand you mean total for that for for 2024 I'm I'm showing a run rate of 14 1404 yeah and and the big the big driver in that is the uh State fees for red light cameras [Music] right but your such a keeping them the same yeah and we think that they're going to catch back up no no that's what I said earlier that I think that's that's something that we're looking into so we can understand really what what impact that's going to have for the upcoming year and that correlates with the revenue side too so both of them float the same direction correct gotcha y I think it's Jake is it your chair getting that table something making that noise something's tapping over there it's not this side we were it's the boys that side if you're C your KNE your your pen sometimes the mic's on it'll catch it's right I watching you so I thought might be your chair next okay so uh nothing else there line please skip over dispatch please here give me a few moments as I cyle through this bu Department almost there than hours page 22 that we look for yeah 22 22 22 we are HR HR 26 so again uh not a lot of differences here um I think uh the bigger change is under the technology software maintenance um we are looking for um adding a application that will help with our applications and managing the uh the recruitment process for us right now it's it's being done in a way that I don't think is the most effective and efficient um requires still a lot of entry on the back end um there are different packages out there that we've been looking at that uh you know will allow everything to be done online um and depending on which which one ultimately they decide on will you know could take it all the way in to actually loading it right into our our financial software as well so still have made a final choice on that um but that's that's where we're going with it okay and and let me say one with that and other places I've been we've done the same thing in terms of getting that that process to get other people to do the work for us um this case it's the candidates that are applying uh what it what it allows is is to use employees instead of doing data entry to do higher level things and you know as it relates to our employee base you know we want to transition into Human Resources being more of a um resource human resource uh to our employees and you know we've done a few things this year so far that that you know we think you know helps educate and inform our employees the different things that you know may or may not be directly related to uh uh their work but what we want to do is spend even more time going down the road uh doing that and you know we are talking about doing more training especially on the it side with our employees um but also looking from you know the the kind the holistic approach to uh getting our employees to be stronger more confident doing things that you know make them more balanced in everything they do um but you can't be doing that with an employee if they're spending a lot of time doing a lot of data entry so um that's kind of what our strategy with this is is to get that type of work done not by us which allows our employees to do a higher level of of work that benefits the um the organization in a better way grants again um we don't have any grants on the books right now that we're expecting for uh the general fund so obviously there's nothing there public works we'll talk about when we get together the next time in other economic uh environment B particular fund that is the uh 10% of the wages uh and uh benefit costs for that uh job that or position I had mentioned earlier talk more about for the CRA and and just maybe the qualify why there's some coming out of the general fund as you know not all the city is CRA there are portions that especially from the resiliency standpoint are on the coast that we we believe this position will be working with um so that's why we looked at it from the general fund because we know that there's going to be areas that aren't covered by CRA that that that individual will be working with and give you maybe a broader down the road you know is as we transition land out of the CRA you know most likely that that load onto the general fund will increase as well uh Public Health again Animal Control contract and refuse pickup costs as well as a solid waste assessment are in that line item not much different than the current year and then finally uh the last one we're talking about is contingencies um the biggest the biggest number or the biggest thing we need to talk about in contingencies is the cra cra cities Tiff share so that increase that we saw has good and bad with it and I'm talking about the tax base the the good is that it's growing at 10 plus perc um and more taxes get collected the bad for the general fund is with that increase means more money has to go from the general fund paid to the CRA I believe last year uh you took uh the ETI area out of the CRA to kind of reduce that number back down we're working right now um looking at what areas in the city can come out as well uh We've identified at least two Parcels that we believe you know don't make sense in in being within the CRA and that reduction significant reduction in the CRA footprint or dollarwise will get us down around that [Music] $700,000 number to pay to CRA my goal is this would be to get it you know no lower than what the current Year's number is 671 but also maybe have an increase in that so we can reduce it maybe a little bit more uh but I think we're going to be right around the $700,000 on these newer developments like ke Cody River and Villa Bay what's the protocol to pull those out of CRA because I they're brand new all together I don't think it as soon as they open lock they pulled out a SI I I I don't know that first off um ailia Bay is one of the not two that's in my mind right now that it creates that that's like the third one in my mind um the the difficulty I have in that is that you know today we look at it as as you know not necessarily needing it but again we got to be looking down the road as well we pull it out it's out right and so we need to be careful that when we pull um areas out that there isn't the possibility that there could be issues down the road and that's one that I'm not saying is an issue um but it's one that I think we need to think about before we make that decision that's number single owned that's number one taxpayer in City yeah no it's it's a healthy number doubt about but again and so the keys of Cody I think that's that's another another one that again would make sense fully out but I think we need think about what the future of that going to be as well what's the big department complex on Washington Abigail yeah course um I I think again that that whole area is one that you're probably going to be focusing on for CRA opportunities so don't necessarily want to Rob take those out because I think you know we can we can draw a really good connection between that area and and some of the things that we want to do with Yeah Yeah by far those the sorry I apologize did you repeat all that I'm so quiet but there are different areas around there so I me you can't take out I don't know maybe you can I don't you can't take out this piece but not this piece and then you could you know I mean like that's how we've done it in the past it has to be a chunk and I didn't know what CRA rules were because obviously if you got those properties in there some point County or whoever oversees that come back and say why you had this in your C when it's a brand new property yeah we're we're we're still going through that that process to make sure we can do what we're thinking of doing I at at present time it appears we can but I I like the check the double check and triple check make sure um but but beyond that then becomes part of strategy and and you know those areas off brand Washington Leo kid all those areas over there um are areas that that you know a good strategy through cra to lift it up I think makes a lot of sense and and so when you start robbing you know it's it's hard if we have to and keep this in mind um in the next couple years we need to make a decision whether we're going to let the CRA sunset or if we're going to review it and with that in mind what I don't want to get into necessarily is a lot of you know small areas we pull out and we don't then have a justification for that should we decide to Ren that and again in those areas going to have 100% because again there are areas there that can use a lot of help exactly the C these other areas you know I don't think that that argum it's necessarily there with regard to the CRA this is the amount that's actually paid out into the CRA fund which goes to those particular issues that you're talking about to redevelop those areas in some capacity whether you put pipes or roads or allow grants for businesses to you know Revitalize that area so I don't see it as a as a bad except that we have to pay it out of the general fund and ultimately have to utilize it and we've got a significant amount in there right now I it's like 3.2 mil maybe so yeah this is only our portion the county matches that correct and and keep that in mind that that if we take it out obviously count exactly that's why again what I'm what what my strategy would be is let's let's try to keep it add that current number this year somewhere close to that I think there are things that you know we get into the CRA budget CR CRA board talking about um you know we we need to spend that money we need to do things and and if you looked at it you'll see that I'm budgeting a lot of money to do things well and I have a lot of on my list too and I just want to make sure that we're same yeah we'll get there thank you and and I guess the only other thing somewhat different on that on contingencies I did lower that a little bit I I think some of the the things that least the rationale why the number put in there for contingencies we've addressed a little bit differently in this year's budget so I reduced it down a little bit but I think generally for our side's budget having 100,000 Indy is probably like the low number where it should be but pretty comfortable we're addressing things that be contingency based what's the percentage of our reserves thinken we were at I think 33% or something last year and it was concerned of get that low or did we increase that this budget what are we looking at it um you know I started look better ear but I never finished that that look next time I was going to run that report to be able to see that and I didn't do it but yeah um that is important I think again know we should if things go the way it looks like go we're not going to be what unassigned balance a higher I think we might grow but again there's some things in there that that you know like with the red light cameras and stuff that could impact that I don't think so but but I'm just not 100% sure today you you asked me maybe September 30th I'll be able to tell you what that is but um not so much hopefully not um but but again I think that's that's something else that you know we need we need to be thinking about as well is that you know point of a the fund balance is is really threefold one is is you know if all of your Revenue spets turned off for three or four months you have the wherewithal to cover your cost right and so that's one of the calculations another calculation you have to put in there especially being where we're at you know if an emergency strikes do you have sufficient funds to continue operations um and and emerging operations you know whether it's you know spending a lot of overtime for police fire public works or if it's you know Hing away a lot of debris or you know whatever whatever those Emergency Operations are that you need to to cover uh shouldn't occur the third one is you're planning on doing something in the very near future so you're saving money you know we're going to do a million-- dollar project and we're saving 200 this year 200 next year like that um but outside of that you know fund balance to me is a bad thing um I think you know from a government and maybe it's just me but you know government should collect the amount of money it needs to operate you know we're not here to make a profit and and so that was something that that in another cities I talked to councils about a lot is you know it's growing it's growing it's growing but it's growing beyond what what we can really justify um and and I think it's something that that um you know with a community like ours and the needs that we have you know we really need to have a strategy to say okay here's here's what that that you know undesignated fund balance is going to be period And if we hit it in a given year we know the next year we're going to be funding more capital projects um because it really needs to be you know spent because we're collecting it to benefit the uh the public and as we should be doing and we need to be spending sure yeah there's no no shortage of projects so that is close to being seven thank you wow almost got a pho almost uh the next the next uh we included on your deathless you have question I'm sorry I if there's any questions before we start talking about the schedule good job no questions schedule so um our next regularly scheduled uh budget Workshop will be August 20th no do we change that remember we discussed that because it's the general it's the election right you have to talk about that yes so we need to reschedule that because there's a primary primary that day thank you you and your elections move it to the Thursday 2 [Music] second and then the following Tuesday is that kind of Clos together to get council meeting no but on here it says it says budget workshop on the 27th so so on that the the 27th was a wor case scenario okay that if we couldn't get through everything that we needed to talk about which I think based upon the way that we blew through it tonight fast um I think we can get through everything on that Thursday so we probably won't need that um I think the you know once once we're done with these kind of informative workshops where we explain what the budget means and everything um the next Milestone date is that September 5th public hearing and I think right after that hearing you know you really start your deliberation how you then heard from the public what what they think about what this budget is looking at um and you can start uh deliberating after that so I I think 27th was only if we didn't get through everything um but I think we can so really if we do on the 22nd if that's the dat we should be able to get this this budget done whatever time you want we're at your disposal five is fine with me we remember you about what day 22nd 5 I'll send the calendar invite with the time so that all of us show up that was August 22nd after that second meeting after that after that next meeting then what we do is go back and look at the rate and be able to adjust uh the M rate to ensure that we're on track right well the so the way that should work is uh you know you get into deliberations and you start saying we want this we don't want that or we want to reconsider this or it is and then once you have that number um you know will have definitely by then you know all the revenue numbers in we think is pretty solid because there's still a couple from the state that have not been finalized yet that we're still waiting for the state to to publish so we'll have all those revenues so you know effectively you know what what is in front of you today is balanced at the mill rate that is the roll back number oh for for this year so so you can make those choices whether you want to increase it or decrease it once we get into deliberation so this budget is based on a roll back 63782 okay you got some questions D oh when do we want to talk about that what is it it's a list of things that we'd like to do so it sounds like that's coming in later meetings uh you know whenever you want to talk about it well I mean you'd mentioned that you you've got some ideas to spend some money to plan on doing some stuff and there's certainly not a lack of infrastructure items in in the city that need to be addressed um and my thoughts were uh right off the top sidewalks roads pipes uh pulling the commercial piece into the CRA blight so that we can get that grant program rolling then there um dredging uh looking at the problem areas in the city where that needs to to be potentially uh maybe we can address that and and I know there's a committee going on with that so that could you know follow along in that too but essentially trying to set something aside to to to assess that um looking at the btrs for rentals getting that addressed I know the attorney was supposed to be working on that or somebody was working on that so um L stations for storm grain there you go big should be run on top of the L it's not water treatment plan yeah water treatment treat should be on the top of everything because without that water treatment plant the rest of the pipes are no good we have to start at the beginning and I know we're looking at that grant program but we still have to have the funds yeah to do that so so far everything the only things that they don't have a good answer for your list that you talked about are dredging but you indicated you had talked to the county a little bit about that so things are yeah yeah so heard back yeah yeah no um the I'm supposed to be I'm waiting for a date to meet with the resiliency Office of the county to talk about their their Coastal Management program and you obviously part of their Coastal Management program is the the uh canals uh so as soon as we get that meeting set up uh we can start that dialogue and of you know what what they have available um the county is bringing on a grant writer as well I believe or someone that is from the University of Florida that U is going to help community within the county uh that are part of that program find ways to pay for these different types of projects so so we started that process I mean all those things you know you'll see in the CRA budget uh money for sidewalks and Roads Parks things like that you see in the utility budgets the you know start of you know line maintenance and repair for sewer system and system you know you'll see a lot of money being spent for well rehab you know putting aside and actually in the grand F we have $4 million being set aside for what the cost is for the water treatment plant uh initial preliminary study and design see in the water utility the city share be some, how head it is for that you see uh start of a program to replace water lines you'll see money in that fund to since we're doing the water plant study that will also cover some of the utility lines as well in sewer you'll see the sewer management study so we can start getting the handle on what needs to be changed and upgraded with the LI station as well as the L so yeah it's a lot of money being going outdoor extra and again we were already talked about the um storm water utility where you know we have money set aside for the uh management plan as well as 100,000 plus now ahead for uh improvements on the south side that we wanted to and and these studies uh essentially are into us going and applying for Grants showing the need potentially helping that process move forward I mean that that definitely is going to help in in our ability to get and find grants no doubt but I think you know from our perspective from my perspective you know what it's going to do is lay out what what the work plan needs to be in the future and there's only two ways really to fund that is you find grants or find it within your structur and I did notice that the Brasher par Beach uh was off the charts uh it's really spiked up on water quality having a negative they've closed that beach and just one of the things I wanted to point attention to is if we could build a story case that water quality is down and potentially you know just don't know all the facts but if storm waterers causing this then maybe this can help us you know make our case [Music] right the um Grand Boulevard um expenditures obviously we've got I talked to to with n board today so there's once we get those engineering back we set up a meeting with for Nick I think Nick might have the ability to fund some of that has to be no funding it that would probably be March of next year and I know that that's a hot item for golf car Crossing stuff city so we get that back we need I don't we this from a budget perspective or not but um depending on whether we get some help or not I think we still probably need to move forward with doing something there yes that so that that is not as we see here they considered within any of the budgets because I know I knew that we were going to be getting those numbers actually hopefully next week um as to what the costs are so we have a good Planning number with it second thing is once we have the numbers we have to determine where we would pay for it if you didn't get any help from anybody else so those those are the reasons why it doesn't really show up at these costs right now but we'll know soon and make think about and then the other thing is obv meeting next week with Rich and the county on property across the river that's next weekend [Music] or I don't know what's gonna come out of that and bring that back once we find out it's you know the private County own near next to Whiskey right next to whis where they boat ramp and whatnot our peers there and I think newpt she's trying to buy the hotel I think kath starky is the one that put it together to talk with the three of us about collaborating on something there we get some details C there may also we may also be talking about yes and that's on the N funding list too on down there I Know Jack the one wants to see that come up but you know long term I think that's G to be something we have to look at dep on what happens at the waterfront and all that there's a lot of things in play obviously but there's opportunity for some funding there pass motion to motion second over here all in favor by saying I I worksh concluded