##VIDEO ID:Moujm0BJ8V0## flag United States of America the stands Nation IND and jce for all have please chairman John Eric ho here member Linda Rodriguez here member David Mueller here M Robert H here M Lisa B here attorney here manager Matthew C here thank you first up I have approved board minutes from last meeting from June 11th 2024 I have a correction there sure uh under agency business business um number two city manager uce the items of the city manager I think that's CRA should be C what you talking about item number two you said item two on page five the second uh under agency business I think it I think you meant to say CRA right yeah C with sure I introduced I think think you did did you agree with [Music] it motion motion motion to approve with that correction I'll second that thank you second any further discussion all in favor saying I iOS motion carries moving right along to comments from the General Public I do not have any signed up but I show hands anybody like to speak see that I will bring it back to our next up is comments from the city manager com I just wanted to say that we are working with um St John that issue related to her uh property our property that she's apprach upon um we have received from uh her attorney the uh the survey and I'm reviewing that right now and I think that I'll be able to bring it to the next c meeting as a draft TR RFQ um if you find it's acceptable we can get that out and start that process what on the same line what about the uh theer [Music] Circle I have a little bit of work to do there yeah that that will be done okay um next up counc from the board I'll start this time my right with ounc good counc H vice mayor Rodriguez I guess member sorry I have move on to our agenda two fiscal year 2025 community redevelopment agency C CRA budget I'll pass that to Mr C for introduction thank you um wanted to go through this quickly with you uh there's not there's a few big changes but not a lot of big changes um starting with the uh the revenue side of this uh you can see that the probably the biggest change is the numbers that are coming one from the adum taxes that we're receiving from the county which is an increase because we did have an increase in the overall valuation of the city but if you go down to the uh 38911 transfer from general fund again there's an increase but that number is 700,000 is a placeholder if you remember uh during our budget uh Workshop we had talked about reducing the cost to the general fund by reducing the size of the C and looking at a couple Parcels out of that so we're working on that still to finalize what those exact numbers are and we'll have that short this reflects what we're estimating right now that number to be and it may be you know within probably one or two% of that when all said done so it may be a little bit higher maybe a little bit less it just it's going to depend on the total extent of the properties so we're going to close out four and a half million balance in there is that yeah so so approximately uh I think the reserves are right now estimated at about 3.2 million and all said and done I'll be working with Adam to finalize those numbers as well so we'll have a better a better grasp of what that's going to be again we're not spending all the money that we have in that fund because we did go forward with the Waterfront project there is going to be a sizeable amount and keep in mind that one of the requirements for the CRA is that you do have to at all the reserves you have you have to appropriate not only the money that you have coming in in this fiscal year but you have to do appropriate reserves so when we get to the expenditure part you'll see in a couple different places how that is going don't know if there's any questions on the revenue questions there's no need action on this right kind of going through it there'll be another discussion I noticed that you backed off of the interest R of expecting a reduction or expectation of expending these items and the cash won't be there to generate any additional interest yeah I you know I I generally if I haven't said this I'm very conservative when it comes to revenue side I I do believe that you know we're going to see obviously more in this fiscal year uh in the interest of little budgeted number is going to be higher probably than what is in in the preliminary budget the budget we're presenting we could adjust that or I mean as we get closer to the the final adoption we may can adjusted reality is there's more money in there right now than we have plans for and that adjustment you know probably come later in the year anyways all but it's all based on timing too blows out I think I don't believe that we're going to beend be great but I don't [Music] think but again long we have question comment back item number three community redevelopment oh sorry I thought you were done it's it's it's the star of the show I do have to drive to Miami ton go ahead this interesting stuff yeah uh so on the expenditure side again in your packets U and and we did uh provide some updates today at your desk uh primarily the only updates that we put in there were uh related to the insurance uh numbers we changed so the allocation for insurance correct um and there's only a handful of those areas that that that's the case um again we we do pay out some direct uh expenditures for wages and benefits of different uh um different uh employees to um that have an impact on the CRA uh you know the administrative of course is is a proportion of of my time operations City Clerk and grants um and again some of the different operating expenditures that uh are attributable to that as well should we add any for uh city council uh you know it's interesting that it looks like uh Council stopped having money taken out in 2223 which kind of coincides I think with UD the audit that was done so I'm guessing that I mean we're meeting here right now and we meet on a regular basis and talk about this but I don't know I mean I assume that there was something in that aif finding that says you're not allowed to do that because again there was in you know 20 2122 was kind of the last fiscal year that you saw expenditures in a number of different areas gotcha police fire dispatch and and counsel not much of an impact anyway on us no I mean few percent of nothing still nothing that's true and and I think in in I don't know if you remember the CRA laws depends on the question but I I think that they actually they can't serve get paid M they through CRA I don't know that it says they it isn't I don't think it addresses it at all I don't think there's a provision for them to get paid and that's kind of where my mind went you are paid as Council persons and Council elected to appoint you as a CRA so I don't think there's any expenditure for your time as a CRA board member but I would I mean that's just without reading anything or looking anything that's my thought of uh thought process that probably why it's not supposed to be included that's exactly correct oh look at that youcome I like I like the new gu all right uh the next in finance again is covering a portion of the finance operations that are attributable to the C and and for the most part these numbers really are not adjusted tremendously different um except when we get to the city attorney uh because because we uh plan on being a little bit more active in the upcoming year um we assume that we're going to be spending a little bit more money attributable to from the city attorney in this so This is actually increased by $10,000 and we're getting U on the invoice ability to track versus CRA or other I send two separate bills one is CRA time and one is non CRA even better I don't think you're Blinded By the way thank you uh then next is the info technology again not a dramatic increase over what the current year is uh then you'll see a couple uh centers where there are no spending again you can see that in that 2122 time frame was the last time money was spent out of dispatch Le and fire building department um again this covers uh the wages of uh the employees that are in the building department um that triple to the uh CRA and this operations code enforcement the same way uh I will point out that these numbers are a little bit different than the current current years uh due to uh the adding of that um position that originally was going to be code enforcement this year's budget but we're changing that to be more Building Code Enforcement so portion of the code enforcement uh time of that employee would be charged here I know noticed that you have demolitions up to 150,000 again um we're underrunning pretty good by 100 grand [Music] um would would foreclosures of that and leans would that fall under the legal side or is there a you know that would be additional legal cost that we would incur right it would why that's okay enforcement um Human Resources again of course of the human resource specialist time charged of this um this is you know one of the areas that we wanted to have the discussion uh related to the uh community redevelopment fund Grant expenditures currently uh there was $100,000 that was um budgeted uh it was supposed to 5050 50,000 for the residential 50,000 for commercial we didn't get the commercial program off uh this year so we started moving some money towards that uh the residential was very very uh well received uh we've gotten a number of uh a lot of use of that so I don't know if you want to look at increasing those numbers for next year um I think again just putting there doesn't mean that you're going be spending it but I think it would again be a good good idea maybe to increase those both for the commercial and residential you know since the commercial really hasn't got off the ground and probably won't concur any grants this fiscal year would it be ho us to look at maybe doubling that I I don't know make it it was it was 50,000 last year 5050 5050 would would we make a commercial 100 uh suggesting yes and make U residential 100 as well so increase the thing to 200 instead of 100 as a budget line item yeah I I think that's it's again we're we're going hopefully we're going to see a lot of applicants on the business side once we get that out there I mean there's definitely a need within the community for that um so I I I don't think that's a bad idea and and again you know this is is this fund this this money is supposed to be used to help uh you know correct light and encourage Redevelopment so would it behoove us to create another line item called 801 uh residential Community grants and 802 resident or business grants so that you can independently track them from a report rather than having to go and split hairs yeah no no that that was one of things I wanted to do like said I think the previous meeting I didn't have the ability to insert the things in there but you know but now you know how to do can do it uh no I don't but Adam's going to if he all right so so do you need a motion or something or do you just we're just looking at guidance yeah I think yeah I think give you know if if if there's a consensus to move forward with that kind of concept you can put that in there no problem well I know we we're going to discuss the the commercial side of it tonight on action item do you want to talk about that because there's as I was looking at that well that's the form well that's the limits and stuff in there and there's the grant that's the process and it seems to be a little loose on what you can do with that too so again might determine what number you want to put in there that's all I'm saying I don't well since they didn't get anything this year I'm just thinking it would be Equitable to ensure that we have you know some provision for something but no I'm notos yeah do you need a consensus on it yeah yeah do you need actual numbers or no I think I right now we we'll go with to 100 100 each is there an idea of what the pipeline what's in the pipeline are we going to the photo finish at whatever we got or no where we stand with the commercial or excuse me with the residential resal probably sorry trying to think off the top of my head but um there are probably four more applications for the residential that are still outstanding in in the process of being completed so they should be done I would think by the rest money yes um addition money no I don't think it will I don't think it will because we added in that we moved the $30,000 over so um I don't think it'll be used totally no for myself thank you not quite another department that isn't receiving funding anymore [Music] dep so this is is then the other Economic Development uh Community Development Fund wages is covering sure I right here yeah so my might just blinked on this one for some reason but it's it's back so in this one you may recall that I indicated that wanted to add another position uh within the city and it was going to be that c coordinator officer um so this this particular 5591 uh fund covers the cost of hiring that individual and all the benefits associated with it again I think it's uh it's a position that is going to give us a lot more depth to be able to get number of projects moving forward that we don't have that will allow us to remove some of the responsibilities from other employees that have a lot of things going on um and provide more focus on CRA on the economic development needs as well as resiliency because again the way that the city's laid out right now except for a few areas is mostly CRA and a lot of the areas that resiliency and the working on are going to be in the CRA so a lot of overlap between the cra's goals and missions are going to you know um obviously that group is g to go after funding and and whatnot but we we do have President mentioned today Blue Point Drive area really bad again I don't know if that's County can come over there clear out I think it's part of the discussion we'll end up having with Jack um but should we should we put some some dredging funding in here so we can start at least hitting some of those really bad areas and that's an eyesore as you drive by there I know so I don't probably other places you know not necessarily of an overall project but uh I think pry some opportunity to to do some maintenance type stuff in certain areas that would be just one that comes to mind it's prevalent well those so those particular canals County are County own actually some of them are County the very first one is actually owned by the Florida sheriff's something like which one's that the First on quis yeah I mean um right down from Bay okay um but the rest are owned by the county we're we have reached out and they haven't gotten back to us actually um regarding what their responsibilities are for maintenance yet but again that's something I think you know we started a conversation also with misser and his staff hope to get that understanding of whose responsibility really it is and those being owned by the county we just don't have the right to go in and do something we'd have to get their permission as well another reason Ian that's an example but if that's not owned by us that's another issue but think of our our police vote lift or whatever that uh needs Proby some dredging around there so that they can get out at any tide would be an example there's probably other spots in the city where drainage wise we might need to do a little work or something I it's having zero in there seems I didn't see zero zero right it yeah zero that's why I'm adding it back it's it's water maintenance remember they said you shoulding it's water access Waterway maintenance already existing canals so we're not really dredging and I'm looking into right now cost of have rent dredges machines that you can rent basically back hos on barges which was used to to make the Port Richie Marina make it very cost effective we don't have an operator to work for extra pay to do that you can hire an operator it you clean out personal canals and save a lot of money and get a lot of stuff done a lot faster doing that than hiring a company to to get in to do that a large issue that is you're my apologize judging is a big issue with all the federal AG as well I don't think it's as simple as just putting a back on a a on a barge so well for M municipality it's not as easy now private company a private citizen can do whatever they choose right Rich Marina dredged out State Property they were a private entity they were a private entity they're a private business true I know that's what I say to get someone to actually do the work youd have to hire a license operator we do have license operator we can't make them do that obviously if they want to do it I don't know if extra pay would be possible for that but you can hire an operator and all you got to do get a permit to do that yes we can do that though so the how obviously is something will come once you I'm working on that right now I mean to me I think we should have some some amount of money in there to handle and again overall project that's not what I'm talking about because that's going to come later I'm just talking about we need some pothole money it's in here 631 631 no water Poole money a dredging pothole money I use the analogy is that you know dredging doesn't have to be this big elaborate project where all the canals get dredged um you have one little isolated spot that is a problem focus on that and we treat it like a posle we take care of it so if we have some money there do some spot maintenance here and there which I think there's well big area right now the main main problem is the access to Waterfront along U Waterfront Park over towards the boat ramp and that allows all the people in Miller to buy you access to get in and out of thing get out of their own personal C there a lot of the canals over there have problems we need to get in there and clean them out but if you get that main waterway that way a lot of the commercial boats a lot of the recreation boats that low tide can get in and out and that's I think should be the first thing that needs to be cleaned out but I I'm don't live on the water nor do I own a boat I don't want to pay for dredging for Access we the county has talked about assessing the people on the water they haven't decided yet I mean people on the water want to pay for it perfect great good job all up behind it my tax dollars I don't want to pay for dredging someone to get their vat out if it's a water quality issue then that needs to be addressed by an independent company with with facts and details to come back to us water quality is not what I'm talking about access so that boats can get in and out of Millers by you not many people in the cities concerned that don't own boats and that do not live on the water they do not they should not I feel have to pay for that access people on a waterfront pay more in taxes you that you chose to live there right exactly so that's why my taxes I chose not to live there so I shouldn't have to pay for your fund let's not get into that discussion but but we have a committee Linda's on that committee uh these are all items that really need to be focused on where they want to go with that committee and there's millions of dollars in federal funding that can be used to address this stuff so this is what we're talking about we're just kicking this off the ground Carl's going to be back he's going to be absolutely ready to go my conversation with uh Mr Mariano sounds like they do have some funding as well yep so there are some opportunities out there and that's what I'm hoping that committee is going to Champion and you know be successful for the city I think it's a win-win for everybody that's what I'm working on right now so it doesn't cost the taxpayers even if they live on water any money C does but yes I understand I'm talking about Pasco County actually we're going to be talking with them they apparently have money and I want to stretch that dollar so we can take care of everybody without using taxpayers dollar my only Point here is that and that the police boat can't get out at low tide so we need dredge that out we need not to wait for 2125 to fix that we need need our boats on the water at any time if there's issue that kind of stuff you know if there's a a blockage or something because when we have a huge rain water can't move around we should probably dredge that out to make sure that that's operating I'm talking about the overall dredging process that it come right that's what that committee's job is but I think we need to have some money in the bucket ready to deploy to fix some of these issues like the police vat all we leave zero but we we have to address some this stuff and you know I don't see anything in here for pip placement either is that being mased water water pipes depend on where they are what they're doing um us usually the CR is more envisioned of the structures the things that we see um above the ground so we'd have to look at what exactly need to be done in if it was something the CRA wouldn't be able to I think generally utilities like that don't spend money I mean if it's Project Specific you know if you're doing it for a Redevelopment project might be able to do that but generally just the repair I mean that's you know CRA one one of the things that they they don't want you to do is take things that you would normally spend money from your general fund on or Utility Fund on and use the CRA for that and so it it really gets difficult to spend money on maintenance related items really is more you know Capital Construction new adding to the the system so you know you might might be able to say that we're going to use this money to upgrade a water line for a Redevelopment that's probably going to be something that nany might find that is acceptable but just to say we're going to replace that pipe for no other reason then it's lost you know it's out of its life cycle you have a a fund that you should be you know have sufficient funds in to repair those for again that's you about get that maybe dredging Sim type thing right maybe we can't use it for that I was actually researching that I've never seen CRA money be used for such a thing I don't think that's what's in the intent of it but I kind of seeing the definition how you could argue well it's Public Safety because it's so maybe but I don't think that's the intent the intent for a CRA is to address the slum and bl you see structures are falling apart um they're abandoned they're you that's kind of the concept behind CRA money to remove slum and blight like demo in the pier and those are there definitions for what slum is and what flight is and that's what we have to go by so that's where I went to for Waterway maintenance dredging all these different things and I find nothing to support that activity I wonder why we would have that in there don't know look like spent some money sometime in the past you spent money that might have before the audit so I retracted I just assumed it was okay since it was there yeah I'm not sure you know why they didn't spend and you know I didn't have the ability to go back and see what what they were doing prior to this um next year's budget that'll fall off you won't see it again but but I I think it's going to be difficult but it's something that we can look at to see if it's acceptable but but I think you know the way that you're contemplating the use is really falls into that it's maintenance type of concept that probably wouldn't be so in in that uh you'll see Professional Services uh that's where we're stashing the the vast majority of the reserves um again we do have to uh budget the entire amount of of the fund and uh the Professional Services is is a good area because I think there may be things down the road that you may want to spend some money on uh for instance um one of the things that's come out of the CRA Plan update is the the need for uh wayf finding and you're going to say so what you know why do we want to spend money on signs well signs are important but also part of that is establishing an identity for the city and the CRA and and so what you get out of that is really a branding effort as well as the way finding signs that will help the businesses and and the different uh areas in the city we want to show people that may on 19 or coming into the community and so that's something that we are working on right now is putting together um we be putting together an RSQ for uh Professional Services to do a branding SL wayfinding project for the city I think it's very important because we really you know don't have that that branding yet and uh in working with the the company that actually did our C CRA Plan update they they provided actually a proposal um you know it's it's important to establish that and it's important to work with the community to establish that so they kind of gave us the the ideas necessary to be able to get that project going forward when you get into the capital outlay um I did put money aside for purchase Lands Road improvements Park improvements and uh sidewalk construction uh Capal improvements as well um I don't have any projects in mind um again I think it's something we need to start working on you know by the time we get to the so by the time we get to uh October 1st we're going to be well on the way to actually outlining what those projects are going to be so it's again work that we're going to have to be doing to do that but I think these are are good starts uh for what those uh numbers would be going forward and then the the last uh under contingencies um besides actually not having anything in reserved contingencies um and and I I think that that again the way that we put the uh the capital or the reserves into the Professional Services that really makes it a mute point put it there but is the other part of the uh inter fund trans transfers will go into uh the general fund from this for those things that aren't captured in those other um direct cost items and that's $4.9 million not really good yeah it goes fast yeah it does any questions okay back to public any comment you sure good okay bring back next up is now item number three community redevelopment agenc residential Grant I will pass it to mr's introduction I get to that here so I'm not going to read this whole thing um but uh and I'll ask Pam to come up to the uh the podium as well um we ran into this issue with um an applicant uh for the uh residential home Grant and I guess you know when when Pam first brought it to me my initial thing is it you know didn't follow the rules and you know I think roles are important and I wanted you know I think we again we asked very little to be able to give out the $5,000 um as I thought about a little bit more um you know I really don't know how you guys would feel about this you know you may feel that you know what the inflection was was so insignificant that maybe it would be okay to do this um so I really wanted to get your input on this like I said from my perspective I think the rules are pretty clear and as long as we did what we're supposed to do in terms of letting them know what what their responsibilities are um you know we didn't have the obligation but um thinking that uh it possibly could be appealed to you in some way shape or form at a meeting um I'd rather be out in front than behind on this and so I wanted to bring you on board with that decision um before we get back to the resident on what to do and I don't know if you want to give maybe a little bit of background on specifics of the what happened um this uh particular resident came in and um requested an application for the program I talked with him about the application uh the requirements of the application and he went home and filled it out and got the three required quotes sent them to me via email and um I responded back because the application was not complete the uh contractor information page was completely blank so I sent him an email and I asked him specifically who which one of the contractors he wanted to use and that I and I told him that I would need all of the information about the contractor his license and all all that and plus the information page needed to be uh signed by the contractor and notorized I also told him that none of this work could be started until the packet was completed that was back in May uh a couple weeks ago I received and I also told him back in May that we had to take before pictures of the project before they started any work um a couple weeks ago I got an email from him hey Pam I don't know if you received this information he attached to that email all of the information about the contractor that I needed and he also proceeded to tell me that the job was done there were no before pictures taken by our code enforcement officer that's who goes out and takes the pictures there were several pictures taken by the contractor of the work during but not before so I have no clue what the roof looked like before it looks beautiful now because the contractor took pictures of after picture so I have those everything else I now have he today sent me the itemized receipt shows where he paid cash for the work this is the first problem I've had I so I didn't know how to how to approach it so did you give him approval to start the job I did not I still have not so I I had a question too so I I'm just gonna kind of go through the information here in the packet obviously and there's there's a specific one it has the initials on it Grant it's highlighted Grant funds will not be awarded if work is started or completed prior to proper application through inspections M and then as we as we go down through that I calling up your emails let me get to them here um once I do this got a question here we go so I see that you you sent out on May 29 2024 um I was going to read this right good afterno Mr Guido after reviewing your request for funding from the community redevelopment grant program to replace your roof I have determined that you qualify for the grant I say you're approved for the grant says you qualify for the grant however I do need a couple of items from you before we can move forward one is Brad McDonald the contractor you have chosen and two the contractor will need to complete the contractor information page that is located in application package and have it notorized you will need to sign and have this page notorized as well and then you go on to State once I receive this information the contractor can Pro can proceed with obtaining the permit for the work once the permit is required I will schedule an appointment with you or a code enforcement officer to come to your residence to take before pictures if you have any questions feel free to contact me thank you pay Lynch um so in that email you basically said that once they have this they can proceed not with the work but obtaining the permit for the work once that there's additional thing the pictures and whatnot and the response that was returned on Friday May 31st um and I I Comm you on an email because it's very detailed in what the ask was and what was needed turn said P yes I want to use McDonald I will get the rest filled out Wayne and then on down I see the email was P Friday August 2nd it says pay I'm not sure if it's ever got back to you the attached has Brad McDonald's information for the grant also they completed my roof on 8224 I'm waiting on the inspection and women negation report thank you Wayne and so my question is is what I see here in the in the packet is very succinct messaging to inform Mr Guido of the what was needed and there's a big gap there of a couple months where there was nothing here and then they come back we we see that it's the job's been completed and so I guess the question is you what I'm seeing here it appears that the city did due diligence in here and there was no mistakes made by staff so that's what I want to clarify in your opinion and deal with this was there anything was there may been phone conversations or whatever was there anything outside what we see here that would um that would cause us to be in some kind of air in our administration of the process no I did not have any phone conversations with him at all between May 29th and August 2nd got you there was no contact whatsoever the last thing that I had heard from him like you said on May 31st was he would get the rest of the information I never got it yeah the U and obviously the the and I I empathize obviously with with the situation but the reality is I see if we go back that staff is making a recommendation that we consider given a one-time exception to this if I could ask why would why would staff recommend that I don't know no no particular reason I guess I just you know I don't want this is the first problem I've run into with all of the application and that's and that's that's and that's the problem here if if you do it once then you pretty much got it you set a press to do it once and so why it's it's unfortunate that um this is the case I mean we were clear on what the process was it was an application email back and forth they just jumped a gun and and unfortunately where we're at so and also it's your on this well I agree with everything has been said I think um the handbook explains the process emails explain the process um there is nothing in the handbook that allows for an exception there's no nothing like this um I agree if something was misstated or misinformation was provided that might be a different conversation um that does not appear to have happened and I think if you deviate from what's in your handbook The Way It Was Written for one person then everyone's going to push that um so if you if you want an exception if you want some kind of ability for that to happen that's something you could include but as it's written now um and what what we see is that that information is clearly provided that would be against T hand you would not be following the rules you set for question um no more of a statement as somebody who has used this program and attempted to use this program I also used it for my roof was uccessful um my garage door broke and due to a technicality of like 6 weeks or8 weeks time by the time I needed my garage door to when I was eligible I was unable to get the funds because of a sixe gap and I wasn't going to leave my garage door broken for six weeks um so I can sympathize with him not getting the money because I had to pay cash my garage door um that was broken um but I agree that if we make an exception and I apologize for this but if we make an exception then why why have rules I mean it is very it was very clear in the in the pamphlet that it needed to be everything needed to be done I was successful the first time the second time like I said it was a six week gap between I mean I had the discussion with Matt and Pam both and it was like a six or seven week Gap and and I couldn't get it so um it's unfortunate I I feel horrible but I I think we start making exceptions then why bother having rules in just just give it to anybody who wants and and that's unfortunate I'm sorry for that but I agree that we should not make an exception in this time yeah when I first got the information from him I I felt the same way you know I I felt like well he didn't follow the rules but then I thought well it's not my pay grade I guess to make that decision um however there there were since this project or this uh this program started last year I did have several residents who came in that are residents of Port Richie unincorporated that did not qualify because they did not meet the requirements of the program and I had to send them away you know so I felt bad about that too so I couldn't I didn't ask for an exception there so I don't know an elderly man I believe no he was here earlier this evening Johan with the dark he spoke actually okay yeah he was here I thought I'm sorry I apologize he was earlier I mean there possibly neighbors witnesses to what had happened he had an old roof and he actually did replace it I don't think that's I understand yeah I'm talking about if I I understand the exceptions to the rule and then biting it down the road because you did that think you have witnesses and willing to testify or you have David saying that what he's saying is true yeah I don't know if that would help I sympathize with but at the same time I wouldn't have got approved well the regardless the uh he's still eligible to apply for another project it just wouldn't be able for this one so still available and next year so I don't know if he's got any more projects or whatever but he can utilize the the amount then but I don't uh I don't think we should be open up thats Wayne's my neighbor I can attest the fact that his roof was a lot worse than mine I brought this issue up I said hey we're this is the [Music] situation what's your story and I'm sorry that he isn't here but based on my read through this I can see where he may have construed that he had approval and from the emails going back he responded with McDonald as his contractor and the contractor actually went and got a permit my my thoughts here is somehow we've got to tie the grant process to the permit process so this comes along for the ride so that these two ships can't get ahead of one another right because what occurred was he had to sign a document to approve the contractor to move forward and a couple other my neighbors mentioned that too I don't want to sign this contract until I know I got approval and not only Wayne but I believe Phil also Bill apps also had some concerns and he asked me about that he says I don't feel comfortable signing this document until I get approval and I heard from Phil that uh uh he' been given a verbal approval to move forward right yes not verbal he got an email like everybody else uh um and then he had signed the paperwork and moved ahead yeah so and there again what I saw indicating your response you're looking good get the paperwork in I can see where somebody could make the assum that it was approved well I I would say I would say this I think it doesn't help in this particular situation but I say it does go to perme I think it it would be an added uh fail safe to prevent things like this from happening to um put uh as a assuming go in the process where this is this is foring grant funding being used for the permitting process and so that the building department could uh before they guess say move forward whatever they would give another opportunity to make sure that or let them know that that that we you don't move forward without getting approval from the grant section um just as another why are we taking the responsibility away from the home homeowner and putting it on oh no on on a on a department of what four I don't know how many people are in the building department to make sure that that's okay when in the packet it is very clear when you read when when you're looking for $5,000 I'm I'm make I'm I made sure that I read that packet stem to stern to knew what to know what my requirements were to get that money um and it was very clear in the original packet this is the redone one but in the original packet was also very clear that you had to have approval you had to have all these are all the things you have to have in line before you before you start work they had to take pictures it was all in the packet I I I don't even know if I have one here but um I I just think we the homeowner has a responsibility as we do and and we our responsibility seems like Pam with all her emails was very clear in I disagree with Dave in that respect that you know yes give us all the paperwork we got to get more stuff done not approved it was not insinuated that it was approved it was like yeah we got your stuff good send us the rest of the stuff in so we can continue with the process no I'm I'm 100% 100% the only the only thing I mention that for is obviously it's a process right and if there's the goal of the process is to make sure that we have funding available to help fix flight and we you know if there's just a simple fail check that attaches the grand money to that building if we could just flag that we're not doing a whole lot of them but again that's a process enhancement just a suggestion I say that help in this particular case but % if you're going for $5,000 you better dot your eyes cross your tee totally on board with that but if there's anything we can do just to prevent something like this from happening um that's good customer service and and on that part I think extra ST might eliminate what would just happened here and it might make it easier on her too we can make it easier on her and the homeowner not just not burden them but you know maybe better communication somehow something that maybe she could suggest yeah and that's that's a good point Bob the um you know a lot of times as you go through projects and stuff you have a Lessons Learned type thing this is opportunity lessons learn on the grant process make some suggestions on how we can prevent stuff like this from happening right you know it's it's very clear I 100% like Len said it's very clear you were very abundantly clear um but you know any any way we can tweak a process to we don't have to deny somebody $5,000 I thought they were getting it well I know on the other side if you flip the coin if I send in a packet that has a blank page well D or anybody else asking for money they're going to say incomplete application and they're going to say nope so you know I mean this is the way I received the page clearly says that it needs to be filled out if you're going to hire a contractor so but yeah I it's up to you guys let me ask a question uh I I see on page 29 where it says 529 send email requesting contractor information is this the same contractor information that was filed with the with the permit no I I don't know what the permit requires they building handles that so I don't know in my mind I I I know they have to provide this information to get a building permit is where I'm coming from it's a certificate of liability and building permit on 614 which was after this the contractor sent this information to get a building permit so it's on file in the building with the building permit and that's where I was talking about tying this process together because here's the thing if he sent that to the contractor and then the contractor knows the process to get a building permit he's this is all stuff that's on building so I can see where some of this could be confusing L but everybody that goes to get a building permit hasn't applied for what of th so that building the building department is not going to pick that up no because it's totally separate I get that but the document that she is asking for is sitting in the system with the building that's not the only problem with this process that's not the only problem but I'm sure she doesn't go check to see have they pulled a permit have they not job I want to go down Rabbit Hole here obviously so there's obviously an opportunity to potentially look at a process but as fair I was suggesting pulling that one further question this page on 29 which is the Grant application checklist this I don't recall is this in the packet or is worker that is my work paper I gave you every everything I had part of the process change is include this in the packet checklist the checklist well there's also in the packet are there I mean that's a process change that maybe will help because it's got on there notorized copy of the order or contractor stamp application you know copy of final inspection pictures before and after so maybe that's a process change that we can improve in the future okay well page two of the application is is a page that says some of that but clearly on the bottom where he initials says it will not be awarded if the work is started or completed before oh this yeah the very bottom of the page that's the one this page yes ini initialed all of it deal okay any more discussion so I need a motion to deny motion to approve the exception make a motion to deny the app okay second motion to deny you said B deny yes yeah I'll second motion a second further discussion anyone from public comment Pat Rogers for 8 38 Sunset Boulevard years ago the city let this program have rental properties that the property owner could have some work done under it and I took advantage of that but I had to follow every Rule and I think the addition of a sentence at the bottom in bold print that you must complete all of this before you start the property or you're not approved just something that people who go through and just okay don't pay attention to what they're doing doing because I don't see any reason why you should pay for something when somebody doesn't follow the guidelines that are plainly stated so you know a little bold print helps that maybe thank you anyone else okay see all I'll bring it back to vote all in favor 65 saying I iOS Mo carries next up is item number for community redevelopment agency commercial Grant Pass M so uh we've been working on putting together the commercial grant program um for the board's consideration what you have attached would be provides assistance to building business owners enhance expansion opportunity for new venues and Comm the retention of our existing Commerce and City program proposed to provide a Ming Grant up to 10,000 for s unit business owners and up to 20,000 to multiunit plus un business own types Pro will be eligible funding see a long list there must meet several requirements qualify for the program including being in the jurisdiction of City C having current taxes Utility payments having no outstanding means the business being conducted is a performing useing to a single a multi also um funding is available one time to a single property within a 24 month period okay so I I deluded this before so as I was looking through this there's a there's a lot of stuff on here from a commercial aspect that's not eligible on the on the residential side one would be replace ceilings and floors um and uh uh there was additional new construction to existing structure for expansion [Music] um most of it's fair okay but I mean there it seemed like there was we were a lot more lenient on some that stuff again I don't necessar have a problem with it I just just pointed that out that um why ISC funding additional new construction to an existing structure for expansion um I don't know question well it seems that the eligible projects there's there's a lot more ability not to be fixing blight side of it right so part of repl things and Floors you only see those I mean get part of it though is to encourage the business to grow and expand the city so there is a Redevelopment component to commercial okay where residentials gotta mainly exterior residential is mainly exterior now when you go to the commercial public going in there now you're talking about and I'm okay well the only thing that Luc was there talked about stairs and stuff but it I think speaking from outside right specify outside this commercial it has interior that makesense why we would want to again when you're looking at bringing businesses into buildings there there is a cost to get it up to the standards necessary for that business to be successful and again from an economic development standpoint if you can give money towards those those costs so they can possibly spend their money on Advertising enhancing the selections do the things that you know again help them be successful that's kind of what you know these these type of fundings are supposed to be now in my mind I guess you know see these maybe in two different two different actual uh Grant programs one is a facade or signage kind of you know those those two which again are very costly things that you want to incentivize and then you have the more internal type of uh items that uh and generally you see you know probably more being put towards the uh architectural the facad and the the signage because those things are are obviously more apperent and tend to be things that people don't spend the money on when they're trying to get a business going so I I think that's another consideration if you want is to actually split this into two different types of Grants one towards signs the other towards uh internal type of this one goes up to looks like $20,000 for multi-unit this is new this is something we've never done before um I don't know if the city's ever done they have done the P commercial have done itum quick sorry or stop with that mic there you want commercial have we done business Commercial before it's been a very long time I know I know it was done I I might have been done like when the program first started and then there was there was conflict with the council to just stick with residential but I'd have to look and see when that was done but I I'm thinking that it was it was an original concept to to do commercial and residential and then the council at the time wanted to stick with residents you know just residents getting it because they didn't want everything go to commercial businesses so it went back and forth but it's been a very it's been a very long time since program first started well so I guess this document we're looking at here is this totally brand new written or did we use something from the past I yeah I I resurrected three brochures and combined them into one document as opposed to having three separate grants for facade signage interior I took all three of them and matched them to what our CRA plan says um what is does Newport Richie do I think they do a business they do and what is their um amount and a lot more uh yeah I think their dollar amount is a lot more because they have a lot more money yeah but their program is very similar to this I compared yeah there's with I tried not to business support for I had a qu was wondering is if someone wants to start a new business in the city is that available for them I don't know why it wouldn't be if you're taking a building an existing building and you're making renovations to it or is it a least building it's ownership they have to own it yeah you have to own it you have a business you've been operating in the city for at least five years to make eligible or is it just like I said someone start just starting a business and they use $20,000 of the landlord like he said it might be and 20,000 well they have to own the per the person applying for the grant has to own the building own the building own the own the property yeah for two years so if a landlord owns a strip center on 19 and they want to make it Improvement they would be eligible then for their right yeah if they have multi-units it'd be up to $20,000 they would have to match it so they be put Le 20,000 where the where the residential Grant isn't a match correct so why at this point did we decide to go this direction if before it was always residential is it something from you or is this something from someone else suggested was approved last year okay yeah I think it's because so so much on 19 needs help that we decided to help them by giving them some cash to also fix their blight got it yeah I just want I just wonder and it is in our amended CRA plan that's going to be brought to you for final approval within the next couple of weeks it's part of you know one of the things we say we're going to do with the CRA funds limited first come first serve with complete application yes before and after no before pictures and in this does it does it you mentioned about the building does it actually specifi building because I know some some lots have old signs um and has used to have structure that were demolished or whatever what is the um let say somebody has comes in with the parking and payement improvements and it fixes their their sign if there's no biling there is it denied or is it is that allowed I don't there see anything here that restricts that I yeah that's a good question this document is very preliminary that's why there's a great big draft watermark on it I just finished putting it together last week so it's very preliminary I'm just really looking you know to get your either approval the way it is or if you want to add or take things out it's all it's up to you guys because it it does state by providing assistance to a building SL business owner and a business owner doesn't necessarily have a does own the business right has exterior signage on there say as we make sure that we it's because it it would it would appear to me that uh someone could do that which I think is fine someone out to make what type of sign would they be putting on a vacant lot Building open storage it can't be can't be somebody leasing a exactly but it's there's not a building make sure it's it's not restricted to you have to have a building of some kind right so if someone has 10,000 only has $10,000 and you just loan that's all you could loan them is $10,000 just to bring their building up to code or whatever are doing yep one I I I think we need to look I personally need to look at this more CL clearly than I did prior to this meeting like one of the things right on page 67 in the middle of the page we welcome all improvements however maintenance issues resulting from neglect will not be eligible for grant funding and that's most of the blight is is is is maintenance issues so that's I'm kind I look at that's the first thing I went well that's the whole B I mean they they didn't do maintenance so I personally did not peruse it that closely I apologize for that not being that prepared we like to um take bring it back again and look at it more closely we're not going to be able to do anything this fiscal year anyway it's it's too late now I mean we have some funds available I think there's $20,000 left in the budget um but for this upcoming fiscal year it would be good to have a document because maintenance issues is the biggest thing I mean they didn't do anything for 15 years and and pro fall down they got to fix it so maybe you're the new owner and yeah exactly so I mean so yeah I would I would like to look at it closer but it is building owner yes not just business leasy correct it has you have to own it here either yeah we need because it says building slash business owner well a business owner is not the same as a building owner the next page makes it clear you have to own the property okay so but but that needs change that's just m so so do you think that if we if we were to table this and and kind of review it on our own or would you like to maybe try to do a workshop to go through some of this together or what what you guys think I think let's get to budget season I think let's look at it first and then and then bring it back after that maybe do a workshop after that at some point if you'd like to do that because she said later next year we probably go through it in a workshop and knock it all out and then have it ready we don't have to and the other thing I'd like to look at I know it says business owner I mean uh building owner but I'm thinking just thinking I'm but business owners were trying to bring businesses in no offense not all storage units I'd like to bring other businesses in um but maybe we think about business owners instead of just the building owners I mean what if they do the outside what if part of their leases up the outside of the could probably apply on behalf of their the business well I mean that that's I mean those are the not not looking at these I would like to talk typically a Le cannot modify a or do those kinds of modifications to a building without the landlord or the Lor's approval so essentially is going to have to be communication between but it says exterior interior lighting the business owner does that um I mean stuff ADA requirements business owner the person starting the business does that so that's the type of stuff I think we just need to look at it again I I and I appreciate your comments I I just think we need to look at it because I think we want to bring new businesses into the into the City and expand that it's like Lighthouse Pizza they wanted to knock that door out between the between the pizza shop and the other side and they couldn't do that because they couldn't get the permit because they were the Le not the owner and then it was a long long process before that ever happened so yeah let's do this like I guess it's okay with tabling this until we can budget we'll go through [Music] this Council asked than for putting this together good good starting point it is a good starting point Thank you Pam um and then the what was thought I had on it I would suggest maybe not waiting till I mean I I would suggest maybe individually you take a look at this and provide to us you know the changes that you're think need to be made because I think you know put out a number of consistency issues we need to go through and and correct within the the document if there's you know specific things that you think we need to add to it or subtract from it let us know what those are and we can start doing this because what what I'd be afraid of is that we get to October 1st then we start working on this and we lose you know a couple months of of time when people could be using it so that being said sound like we're not going to be able use the whatever 20,000 I think we got this should we go ahead and move that over to residential to see if there's anybody to use it before the end of the FC year we have 20,000 left bucketed for commercial I able to be tapped so we go ahead and move that 20,000 over to see maybe nobody use that but go and put it in residential make it available to that start thank you you're welcome thank you thank thanks um last up old business any old business discussion that already we had consensus make you make me safe okay yeah we W make Ashley happy let's make a motion got 20,000 was I'm sorry I don't think it was just to Move It from one account to the other we did a motion to like reimburse like something with the count we did can we look at that yeah we I was planning on the DD issue having another meeting so if we hold let me let me check make sure that we do it the right way well there's no hurt in doing a motion only thing is we wait is somebody if we run out of money that in two weeks we're gonna bring you a resolution if one is necessary yeah and if not we'll have the motion what what Pam suggested was that there's still money left you don't have enough you're not up against the no I mean we have money okay so we have time I just you know again these these things I'd like to do the right way I just want to make sure okay you may be right but all said say that let let me just check I'd be happy to pause me let you do a little diddy over there if you [Laughter] like old business any old business didn't get any well you know I mean understand none of you all want that I I get that I've heard that but some of the comments like from the owners down there we didn't do anything their ER Eric specific that you know you didn't do anything down here and it's and don't bring your kids down here after 9 o' and that's because everything I've been saying three and four years that you can't walk down it's not safe so we spent all this money what's the plan what are we doing we haven't SP as I said but we tried to spend the money we have spent a lot of money on the exactly we have spent the money but we haven't got anybody to bid on the prop I'm [Music] asking so the difficulty in making the decision what to do is the unknown of what the development is going to come in because what what we don't want to do now is spend good money after bad money in terms of what we were planning on doing again we were planning on putting water lines in that probably did not meet the standards we have right now going to just upsize them a little bit but not meet what the current requirements are potential you know from that perspective I don't think he should be going too quickly to put new water lines in certain areas because what what size are we going to need put line in there only you have to rip it out put a new line in there as relates to the um roadways and sidewalks I I think the difficulty is not knowing what's happening on the northern part of of the Waterfront area I think the southern part is is pretty easy I mean that's that's not going to change least for a while um so I think that's where I would be looking at what our plans were see what can be saved and and taken from that and put towards new you know sidewalk and and roadway Concept in that area so even if devel that's going to require engineer even if the development gets approved everything gets approved it goes we're looking at two years before that development is is done so those businesses that are already down there have to sit with that slum and blight of the roads and no lighting and no sidewalks no safety for the residents for two years because we're waiting on a potential development I don't think that's fair to the residents that already that already are down there Bob you have comment yeah I I see our point I see both your points we're in that situation but there's some things that we can and we need to do regardless of what happens down there and I've talked you about the water main that runs under the river limestone in that Waterfront area we know that Port Rich Marina is going to upgrade their property and develop that they want to take over the water and sewage on their property we need to move that water line over the bridge and connect it Limestone regardless what happen because we could be losing like I said dumping water fresh water in the river I think you and Sal Daryl could get an engineer to get an estimate on getting that done and that would be a big Improvement for whatever we need to do it's got to be done and lights can be put in by Duke Energy on light on poles down there existing I think lighting I mean it'd be nice to put New Orleans or marar some kind of all picked out already in the past absolutely we are going to probably re the roads there to make it more accessible for the people and is that going to interfere with have to be ripped out after spending all that money I don't know that's something that we need to discuss but I I agree something should be done in inter the uh cautious thing to do here is obviously wait and see what happens whatever this developer and what they're asking for how that shakes out um you know and obviously they they want to develop much more than just that they want develop the whole Waterfront so in reality we don't really know the the landscape of what it's going to be down there I mean we know we we plan for right that's one thing we don't want to move forward on that knowing that it might be a total we don't want to we don't want to throw two and a half million dollars or whatever the last number is probably more than that once it gets bit out but which I think was part of the problem is they said it's going to be much higher than what was res playing so let's just say three million doll we don't want to throw $3 million on the ground and it all get tore up and that's $3 million that we don't have to put somewhere so and totally get your point and I would I think I think we're kind of in that situation right now where we we kind need to see what happens and if that falls through then I think we reevaluate we we push forward with our original plan but with that kind of being out there to wait and see what happens I just feel bad for the businesses that are down there because they're I mean said here that they're not making money well why could you can't walk you're going to break your anle a great lawsuit good luck with that one because we didn't provide safy we didn't provide safe roads for them we didn't provide lighting for them to walk on or did we provide sidewalks for them yeah like a great idea well lighting is I think a simple that would help down that area je would lighting I think I do put on existing poles we can put yeah we can do some lighting probably I think that we should look forward look into getting that done soon I mean we can move forward on that that's not going to hurt us no matter what happens down there like said changing that water M isn't going to hurt either it needs to be done it's going to have to get done we might as well just do it what size we need I guess question riverone Pier yeah you find out if that's even active or not don't think we have an answer the line going in the River Bridge Street that's we talking about the Limestone line we could be losing a lot of water in the river fresh water it's decades old needs to be replaced it's always been an active line I'd heard something that we wouldn't sure if it was something well we were supposed to be taking it out to where exactly it crosses there that's location I guess influx that's what we don't know right exactly okay de very anti flying so I guess I'm not doing anything with Cody River Landing we're just going to leave it thing right that's that's a consensus no I don't think it's well I thought I mean we're waiting for the development so we're waiting well we should have some I mean it could very potentially be at the end of September we would know that uh that's going forward to some degree or I didn't know that I I didn't know any of that so been announced on the properties noticed I'm sorry the property's noticed out there we had we matter of fact we had one meeting um with Planning and Zoning I think that the newest SCH pen is Planning and Zoning is going to meet on on the 10th and then we would possibly take it shaking his head oh let push back [Music] again we're looking what what day 17 17 and so would 917 9 and that would be P them voting on a recommendation or not and then it would come to Council on the 24th still uh no because we would have to be able to potentially if we notice it in advance like we so even so mid October we would have some kind answer on that okay so when I would watch the pig I I apologize for this these questions um so when I watched the pnz one of the things was the audience thought it was a voting meeting but the DI said it wasn't it was the 17th now a voting meeting or it could be a voting meeting potentially could be a voting meeting I don't know as a public hearing right and they could choose to vote or not control what you do right that's fine but they could choose to vote or not yes okay so that's that's the choice it's not actually a voting meeting they can choose not they have the opportunity that that that so that's why I'm saying it out loud because I want them to know so that you all don't have to deal with that again I just say I I I I guess I I disagree with the thought that we shouldn't do anything I think you need to do something but what you have to come to grips with is to do something means eventually you're going to spend money that you're going to look at and say why do we spend that money but again what I'm what I said earlier is that the southern side of of the more Riverfront side of the Waterfront you know those are really not going to be impacted vly by early phases of of that that development and I think that's where I would be looking to see you know from from a water perspective you know do we have the right size line going into the Waterfront area we've asked the engineering firm to do some analysis is that say here's what that development potential is can we get water from you know the water plant to there and there could be improvements that we need to do there again that's pity side on the road and sidewalk side again that now you know we we have to think well in advance of anything we do there's again the The Rebirth of the under underpass of the uh Boardwalk underpass of the the bridge and you know if we can get that done and we have it come out in a certain area then we we make sure we have sidewalks that convey people from that area you know where go and so it's a little bit difficult because we don't know if that's going to happen and that may be a decision point of where you know the sidewalks on this side of the road or that side of the road as it relates to the side or to the roadway especially there not knowing what the state's going to require for any development that would occur there um that roadway there may may be a different you know may have a different direction may be one way a different way we just you don't know or be two ways we don't know and so that again would be a different a different project than just replacing that road so we have to I think there things can do but I don't know how how risk adverse you are in spending that money because I think you know a total redo of that area is not two years away it's a lot further away that's my concern is because it's it's we've been waiting for 20 years for that to get redone it's always when was the last time that road was paid when was the last time we did any improvements down there never I mean and there are viable businesses is down there that we're trying to not have Clos I mean and and we can we can wait at some point we gota we got to pull the we got to pull the trigger and do something we can wait forever we can keep going and say well you know this could happen next year or this could happen the year after and we're still in the same in the same boat as waiting and our residents deserve we we they pay we all pay taxes and we deserve to have an area we're trying to get a golf cart forr to cross there yeah I think we move forward on that no no but my point is who's going to want to go down there when it looks like that it's not very inviting we have to make it inviting and and we we as a council yeah we can hurry up and wait when that's what we're doing I feel like I've been fighting for this for over almost four years and I have the original binder that was given to me by Jenny sell that's 20 years old that they've been trying to do something and nothing has been done what Richie is known for not doing anything hurry up and do nothing we've not accomplished it we need to accomplish something and not wait for somebody else well the the reality is I say Guild dos is closed now until the outcome of whatever this is we don't know if say that it gets denied and then he decides to lease it out to another restaurant if he's able to do that again I don't know what his plans are but um honestly then we would at least idea right now there's nothing to go to there Seaside just closed this weekend um yes I don't if you do that or not but Seaside closed this weekend so now that whole side is closed um so again is is the reason they're closed because of infrastructure that may play a part of density is all the I hear from the business owners is we don't have the the density to support these things with the lawsuits that you have to put up with and it's just it's you're not making enough money to cover all that and make money so it's better to close the doors so that's what we're seeing um say that um you know there's there's other businesses struggling as well to the same time I don't think it's going to Hope end up in closures but we've got a real problem down there and it it's not it's not roads per se because as you know field dogs was the biggest draw down there roads didn't keep anybody out of there um it's just it's it's not enough so we definitely need to invest in that 100% but what we don't want to do is we have very limited funding we don't want to throw money to garbage either hastily just to say we're doing something you know that' be great show of of the public hey they're down there busting up roads putting new roads in but if we do that and then turn around we bust them up again it'll be like what the heck are you guys thinking right so I don't think it's too much to ask to see how what happens with this process we recess that within a couple months not talking about years a couple months this will be shaked that we we'll have a better understanding of what the direction is going to be and then we can look at how to invest I will say that as far as the Grand Boulevard crossing the hope is once we have these numbers come back um that that the we're able to get some funding from the no board or whatever but if not it would be my recommendation we move forward with that project because people want that golf Crossing maybe less now that some of the stuff's not there but regardless what there's going to be some stuff there at some point that's District somebody's going to whether it's lease or build something there whatever there's going to be stuff happening down there we need to make sure we do that Grand Boulevard Crossing and then plus if we if we look at uh possibly developing up into that area kind make a downtown strip in the Grand Boulevard as you come in the Waterfront we really need to definitely get that done and that doesn't there's no reason to hold that up really because that's something we can do invest in and that's not going to really change no matter what happens down there again as Matt brought up about the underpass that's been they're really pushing to get that back up on the on the top of the no list for sure um and you know that's something we would to invest obviously the connect sidewalks and stuff to get along there again that's something catches isn't going anywhere nothing's really going to change there we can invest some money there lighting you know lighting is somewhat easy we have to do temporary lighting or time to get it up down there put stuff on poles sh around right exactly but still I mean there's things we can do from a lighting perspective by all means if we got patch stuff that we need to put down on the rows down there I think we do that for sure do we want to totally M replace no but we don't want to leave Pooles and stuff either so we can spend some money there it's minimal to try to help the area until we get a better foot would would it be too much to upgrade we're working on sewer systems now we're F we're linning them right now we're in the process of doing that right now aren't we sewer systems area no not in that area so putting sidewalks in would be good to should replace the water lines upgrade them to possible development whatever they needed to be as well as the sewer systems once you start doing the roads and the sidewalks you have to tear them up to replace those pipes so if you do that now no matter what you do at least those have been upgraded yeah I mean if we if we know that we that's ahe of the game on that yeah I mean I'm all for spending whatever money we need to do to build that infrastructure up down there right again as long as we're pretty solid that we're not doing it too small not doing it right on the development down there then we can move on sidewalks and permanent lighting once we know where can put that in a couple months we can start doing that but we I don't know why we haven't started on upgrading the water lines to whatever the potential could be on that that area until we get through this process we don't really know what potential can be because right now we're at a density of 15 down there in the water overa district 18 everywhere else they're talking about plan they want 60 and 900 for the area so that that change the dynamic whatever size water pipes would be so that's well then we can upgrade it to that why would we why would we spend extra money upgrade to that if that's not going to be what our density going forward is so we really need to make the decision of what what kind of density we're going to allow down there which we should relatively soon find that answer out at that point then we I think we can start deploying that I don't think we're far from that decision what what gets built or whatever is a totally other issue again just I know you guys probably seen this but uh this initial ask prob some folks in the public that don't understand the process what this ask is very succinctly is one to create an area which includes the WD and the old trailer park lot into a sub area that's step one create that area within that area um they have 60 Acres 60 units per acre uh limit but 900 for the whole area so 25 I think plus acres down there so if you take 60 times that, 1500 um so they're cap at 900 in the request right so if that or something lower than that or whatever comes out of that process then we'll have an idea of what could potentially go in there whether it goes in there or not but that's what we would allow another part of that initial ask is so sub area the actual density numbers and then the final thing is is how to access those doesn't guarantee anybody gets any of those numbers right it's uh you got to have at least five acres you come to the Pud process to put a plan together and those show the details how want to put mix juice commercial here this and we have all that at this density and all we're doing this first round is creating a density Bank an area bank that can be accessed and it gives us the ability to negotiate as a city of what we want there within that stipulation they can say we want to build this we can have up to 60 well we don't want 60 here we want 40 we'll give you 40 but in the change for getting 40 we want a boardwalk going along we had the ability to negotiate these different Public Access spaces within that process but we don't have anything to negotiate with right now which is what this is trying to establish so once we establish that then we can start talking about all the stuff that could potentially be there but we need to settle on what that density bank is and that will give us the idea of what we need from infrastructure perspective which staff is going through now and saying you know waterwise what we need police fire to accommodate whatever that potential number is not that that potential never ever gets achieved all that's the negotiation with whoever comes to the table to potentially grab those make sense and so that's why it's important we don't go put water pipes in until we know what those changes are going to be if they stay 18 and 15 well then we know we can still fix the boat ramp though we can patch that up we can always improve the park for sure because the Park's going to be a park that's that's a great Point matter of fact right it's that's not going anywhere or put sun shades yeah how's that going I moved to a Jour sorry somebody has to get up at six o'clock and go to work in the morning yeah I've got drive four and a half hours as well so I second okay motion second uh all favor 65 say I