##VIDEO ID:ZfogZFCuBw8## I'll make sure mat yeah send me an email we're ready same same zo right meeting oober [Music] FL chairman John Eric Cooper here Vice chairwoman Linda Rodriguez here member David Mueller here member Robert hubard here member Lisa Burke here City attorney Nancy Meyer here city manager Matthew C here okay L on approv board B there's two sets uh need a motion for September 5th 2024 CRA budget second motion second for discussion all in favor 65 say I I post motion carries second set is September 19th 2024 CRA budget hearing minut a motion approve so moved second motion second for discussion all in favor 65 saying I I opposed motion carries uh next up conman general public we are shy of public and so I'll bring it bring it back to uh the next item is conman city manager P Mr cop for his comments he has none comments from the board I'll start with my right this time with councilman Muer um good sorry member Muer I stand correct cancel oh that's you're member good good member hubard good uh Vice chair Rodriguez I think about that good member Burke I'm good as well okay moving on to uh the board business item number two approval of CRA residential Improvement grant program for fiscal year 2025 I'll pass it to Mr C for deduction slow this down a little Linda likes keep things moving the itial Improvement Grant aims to support owners in enhancing the exterior condition of their properties within the city of Port Rich E community redevelopment agency boundaries by providing financial assistance the program intends to increase property values Foster Community Pride and improve neighborhood Aesthetics the program funds various exterior improvements including driveway repair exterior painting Roofing window and door replacement fascia and gutter repairs fence installation and more the goal is to ensure the improvements contribute to the property value and visual appeal in ineligible projects include routine maintenance interior Renovations luxury features like pools work that violates building codes and any project started without prior approval to qualify the property must be a single family home or duplex within the PRC District owner occupied and eligible for a homestead exemption applicants must be current on taxes and Utility payments and address any code violations as part of the grant project the maximum Grant amount is 5,000 per property available on firstc first serve basis each fiscal year homeowners can apply from all the projects within the funding limit and reapply annually approved homeowners must complete projects within 90 days with possible extensions home owners can submit submitted applications City Hall including proof of ownership scope for work contractor bids and permits applications are reviewed in the order receive and funding is granted based on compliance and availability approved projects are monitored for two years to ensure the funded improvements are maintained if the pro property is sold within two years partial repayment of the grant may be required this program supports the cra's mission to revize community by incentivizing homeowners to improve the exterior of the properties thus enhancing the overall neighborhood appearance and value and just as kind of an overview of this is based upon a number of the conversations we've had in previous meetings over the months um I retold what what we had and created uh a newer program that I think addressed a lot of the the questions that came up in the past in terms of you know who is eligible when they're eligible um and how much they can take advantage of is it every year every couple years or whatever so I think we've addressed all the questions that come up in the past and put together a decent program that people can take advantage of in help got some questions thank you um since we're doing the flood improvements these would be excluded from any hen or milon uh hurricane damages correct are we making a distinction between the things that are in this grant program for CRA uh at blight correcting the exterior appearance of the house versus things that were incurred by the storms well I think there there are some things over right I don't think again this was kind of put together prior to the Hurricanes um so we didn't really take into account those type of uh you know interior repairs but again you know there's Windows Doors um they yeah you know fasia you know if there was exterior damage because of that um you know there's a number of places in the city that I see fences need to be repaired or replaced so I mean there's things like that that easily could U utilize this to uh so people could take advantage of this thing if they had a qualifying activity uh or uh repair right okay good um the other thing I noted was the uh we want repairs to be completed within 90 days however most of these permits are six months so and then if you look at the the business one it's 10 it's 18 18 months I think it ought to be at least consistent with the six months since the permit goes to six months but a permit isn't needed for no no but if there was yeah I mean if they they're not going to get their money till 6 months till they turn in everything right so it's incumbent upon the person doing the repairs oh to do the um work quickly to get their money back because you got to frontload this thing all right and I was just thinking to align that um it might it might be a good idea to do that is it um is that in there that time frame I'm assuming to prevent somebody from tying up grant money no it's earmarked once they get approved that that's ear marked right but if you if you earmark it for six months you tied it for six months 90 days is if you don't do it then he maybe go you know that time frame that time frame is there to speed up the project so people don't wait until the last minute and then it's like oh I haven't got this and now we're forced into that well given the fact that if you're going to do it yourself I I can see that 90 days is fine if you're going to have to get a permit get a contractor given now you got contractors up and down the coast I don't know how long that's going to take uh can we put some well the building department already works with we've established at the previous meeting with with permits and stuff it would be at the discretion if if if I need to get my house painted painting is on here and and a lot of the houses on the other side need to be pressure washed and painted because they're they're damaged correct so I mean if they used that for their painting I would think and they couldn't get it done because the painting contractors are busy contacting the building officials to say look we got all this stuff ready but the painter hasn't come yet can you extend it I mean would that be a problem you think it notes in here that extensions can be granted oh under the approval and commend says once approved homeowners must complete the work within 90 days extensions may be granted under special circumstances so so that fits that I think theyve no okay special you couldn't get to it until month four and then and then as far as permits um let's say you have a a nonstorm repair and this was a grant to encourage those repairs I'm thinking this might be an opport to wave permits on these fees as well because essentially and I'm just going to pick round numbers say you're going to buy $1,000 worth of doors and have them installed and it's going to be uh $100 for the permit you're going to get reimbursed anyway it's 1,100 bucks right because you're outflow is going to be 1,00 you're going to get 1,00 Grant you're going to get reim first $1,100 but I guess we're moving money from CRA over to building department because we we don't cover the building permit well I'm saying maybe we should is that is that building permit fix so it is that the total cost so let's say the $5,000 let's say I have a um what's the minimum permit um it'd be $150 for a burn roughly okay so that would be the applicant's responsibility to call cost of the permit we wouldn't that wouldn't be included in the $5,000 reimbursement so basically if I got a $5,000 job which includes 150 the grant would only come back at 850 I mean 4 4850 4850 right but I'm suggesting since we're trying to encourage that why wouldn't that be reimbursed as well it's it's it's actually a cost to do the job you're talking about non- hurricane related correct yeah yeah well if they getting $5,000 for a job they're doing I think they can afford 150 out of it because otherwise they would be paying the $5,000 and these people have been incurring this all along I I I think we need to keep a little designation between hurricane related and then CRA just like that I I don't disagree I just you know the the monies go further if you allow that to occur I mean they might be doing $10,000 worth of work but it I'm saying has only allowed that exemption on the matching part so if you had $10,000 repair and you had a $5,000 matching you'd have a $300 building permit fee and you'd have that 150 associated with that so they only get the 5,000 so it would reduce the price it's just a way to help the help the individ well so and I'm not necessarily opposed to that including that in the grant so that um because that money just basically shifts hands from CRA to the city that's what I was saying is is in that case it would it would shift from from C to the city check on my next question is GNA be is that something I'll ver would that be the way it works Adam would shift from cra well they say if they had a $5,000 job and that was the the limit and the permit fee was included and that 150 in this case uhuh would uh would be moved to the building fund no well when they pay it they they pay $5,000 they pay 150 to the billon department and we don't sh any of that we don't Shi any of that anywhere we pay it right out CRA so it doesn't it doesn't go into the building right but in in that scenario we reimburse the 5,000 but had a 150 of it coming in from them but not sh50 into that you got a $5,000 Grand we we cut a check for 5 you know 5,000 so we're not shorting it and then giving ourselves $150 but we never paid the 150 no they would pay I think get real complicated now $14,000 roof you pay $5,000 with $150 whatever the um permit fee is is the CRA paying into 5,000 or am I 9,000 paying I mean now you're I mean I think the only only thing it really makes a difference on is if you're under 5,000 right at 5,000 then it and then if you do that just remember next year budget time Dave when we're not meeting any of the budget the building Department's budget at all because we just took all their funding out on that all but we took a large cap of their funding out and that not going to meet their budget when did we do that if you take the the building fees out the permit fees out be clear you're you're you're suggesting that we allow the building fee to be a part of the reim I'm not sure yeah where it's kind of an iffy I think you start moving money from CRA into the city I mean what's going to stop us from just moving a whole $3 million over you know I don't think you're going to be able to do it but I'm happy to regard you do or not I'd be interested to see because really it's it's kind of me that's really the outcome but it's not you're just reimbursing somebody for the job what they do with the money some come back to the city that's just part of the job I'm I'm just trying to see if there's a way to get more repairs for the individual I I'll tell you personally you know as a finance person for you guys I wouldn't mess with anything that has to do with CRA way it is written that's the way I would leave it I wouldn't try to cut anything I wouldn't try to do anything like that because you don't want to go down a hole that you can't get out of you know what I'm saying so like if we're gon to do this as a grant and say okay I'll give you $5,000 whether they take that $5,000 and pay the that's on them we give them the $5,000 we start waving things and Stu I I would rather not have that complication at all leave it the way it is it's you know C is just a different dog um also I I noticed that in the in the business part uh you indicated that you must have a meeting uh scheduled meeting with with the uh or a phone meeting with uh the grand administrator I think that's probably something we want to add into this as well that eliminates any confusion Wayne was here uh he didn't get his Grant he started the project and for whatever reason there was confusion I just think it makes sense that maybe make that a criteria so that there's everybody's on the same page I would I would I would think it that should be in person to be phone a phone interview would be yeah phone yeah she had with him according to um our grander she did have a but yeah I mean I mean I heard another story uh all I'm saying is I don't know who's right there's two sides to every coin uh the situation check the box yeah I mean there's this simple stuff yeah I mean they can have a conversation in person or on the phone absolutely that's not problem and make sure that if there's a situation that requires a permit that comes through the process too because he had a permit for a roof uh they would have had to come in and get a permit so um there was checks that were that could have been Mi uh was not leaving holes process could have prevented that but it it created a bad taste so we will we will place under the application process where he talks about submission yeah that will actually become number two and number one will be a pre pre-submission I don't know what the word I want to use a pre-submission pre subm um yeah like that some type meeting I don't know the word I want use right now but but there would that would be number one the number two we talk about submission and number two becomes three three becomes four and then this notion of if the property is sold within two years a portion of the grant may need to be repaid I mean how we gonna effectively collect that kind of thing you know is that something that's we don't need property I mean here's the thing you put a roof on a house that's not going anywhere you put doors on a house I mean they're not pulling the doors off that's commercial right no anybody residential we haven't got to for commercial I think so where where that becomes an issue I think and again you could you could make the argument that you know that Improvement stays with it but could also make the argument that they're doing that to improve their property value to sell it and again what what we're trying to do is not make property more valuable to sell we're trying to create you know an improvement to the neighborhood that people are going to be there for a long time but by selling it they actually move the value up and the TX bace actually goes up but TR so it actually helps the tax base so that kind of defeats that argument I agree with you I don't I don't necessarily agree with that because again if if if what what you're doing is that so we we are not doing this to make you an individual richer we're doing this to improve the the neighborhoods because again I mean you know this this programs the city's adopted and again I I've changed this a little bit to try to address all the concerns but what you have to think about is this this in other cities you know is is done differently from the standpoint it's not just giving anybody $5,000 there's you know all all yeah every practically everyone that I've looked at there's a means testing right and and part of that means testing or another addition to that is it's focused in a neighborhood that is not getting um a lot of investment or reinvestment right and so I would agree to what you're saying if that is what we're doing is that we're focusing in a neighborhood or area of the CRA that you know isn't getting reinvestment and now because of this reinvestment is happening and it improves the property values that's not really what we're seeing here in way this program is being done we are getting again $5,000 is not a large amount of money to do that you know what we're seeing is people that for the most part are you know we're going to do a roof so here's $5,000 so I don't have to do that or you know I'm I'm changing out a a sliding door because I don't like the sliding door I want to put fr does in or I'm redoing my fence you know they're not those things that really improve the value of of the property nor really my opinion move the needle in in an area that is um you know experiencing someon blight that improves it and $5,000 ain't really going to increase your property value all that much anyway no help the sale if somebody's held it for a long period of time sold it to somebody now new coming in it's got a higher value right the potential is it could move the tax and they and they can if they sell in a year they can afford to pay the city back $2,500 because they sold the house right I mean I mean or do you have somebody sign off and say hey I'll continue to maintain it for this individual you know that's kind of what we do with the with the with the business side so I I mean you know I like consistency between the two policies so do we kind of align them both and and see that whatever we're doing for the residential we apply the same logic to the to the business yeah Bob com business are different hold on Bob well there's there's my son has a house in lgo that we helped him get so they vanel county has a same kind of program see now what they did uh they replaced his roof put storm windows in his house and it was $25,000 they recommended three or four contractors that you get to meet they come out tell you what they're going to do and they you know you get to pick what the windows are and call it the roof and all this stuff and pick your contractor they do all this work and it doesn't cost you anything but you got to go down and get a a mortgage on your house what they do is you can't sell the house for 25 years now if you sell it in 10 years and you have then you're going to take out $112,000 if you there for 25 years and sell a house it don't cost you anything if you sell it that year they going to take $25,000 back from you so you're committed to owning a house but they will fix it up for you for nothing but they have lean you got to live in a house that's the only catch to it uh Other M municipalities do the same thing with 5,000 10,000 $220,000 and you can do the same thing on a business you can have a lean on the property if you run this business now if you go out of business and you falter and nothing you can do about that but you still have a lean on the property so someone comes and buys property ow the city 10,000 or whatever is left that they that you owe them so um you have to find a bank that the city wants to if you want to do this find a bank and you or a title company you got to lean on that property if they decide to sell if they're putting the money in just to sell it it it depends on who buys the house if they sell if it's an asset to the city it could be an asset you don't know what's going to happen you don't know who's going to buy the house they can sell the house anybody they want to but if you have that lean on it you're gonna get the money back what's it um before I do that Adam you got a comment no he kind of he kind of I I do agree with the city manager you don't want to I mean $5,000 ain't a lot of money but if I put $5,000 put a new roof on a house that house value just went up $30,000 so I agree we're not trying to we're not trying to make people Rich you you could put $5,000 of Windows in house and prove the house $10,000 you can double the value of the house yeah but you you don't want to do that and then them sell it then a couple of you because you've done nothing but make them money U you know and so I mean I agree with I didn't even think about that aspect of you put a new roof on there the the other the other piece of this and and this comes from experience in other places so where the other states didn't have CRA um the cities that had we had cdbg okay and and these things you know what what I'm what I'm been trying to do with these is kind of mirror what cdbg programs do as well and so here's I guess the thing I should have said first about right now we're putting this investment in a owner occupied homesteaded property right if you decide to sell that and you decide to sell it to someone that's going to make that a rental property now we've we've changed you know again the nature of what we're trying to do or BNB for example right yeah right and so again while we're trying to improve a neighborhood improve the the CRA boundaries within the city we're not necessarily in the process of enriching people to do things that that you know again and that that's a business use not a not a residential use even though it's it's a resident granted but it's it's a rental at that point in some way so again I I've I kind of Drew that that difference that that you know if if you're going to change that youon maybe that's that's you know we put very specific language in there and says that you know it can't be it can't be sold to be a rental it has be maintained for two years as as you know owner occupied and and addresses kind of the same issues that I think could be do better off in Mota's rental but it's not Homestead and it would yeah come up are we recording these at the county we would under so so it's a very short period of time two years yeah okay relatively small amount of money $5,000 right the idea here is that they put in for a grant they get $5,000 they flip the house this they have to pay the whole $5,000 back right that goes back in and somebody else can use it to I mean it reappropriates money to the CRA fund to be able to do more exactly so I I guess my my question was is one how it says may that means somebody's making a decision it's a discretionary thing it's not absolute it's not must it's May and what are the criteria that the May applies to uh you know if if you put $5,000 in a roof that guy sells his house uh you're not leaning it right now so is it just your question I would change that to sh okay that way there's no criteria it's either or Bas it on a rated time frame but in the business business side there is no a May there would you change that too well that would well yeah we can just saying I'm liking to see something consistent you know rather than okay we got a whole separate set of rules here and a different set of rules for businesses but they are different I know I understand they're different yeah and then you got the red herring where you got the guy living in the duplex where it's half business and half personal yeah you know well so sound like we we want to go ahead and Shore that up and make a shell and and um it' be a PR share and somehow you're going to have to put teeth in it so you can get your money back so this next question had what's it cost for us to lean a property we don't want to end up spend a bunch of money much there's not much to record paperwork what cost more as when you if you try to actively oh effectuate it effectuate it yeah can can I throw Mony Wren to this sure at 10 o'clock at night we're trying to do this to improve the slum and blight so that it looks better right the examples of eligible improvements include driveway repair and replacement they can't take that with them exterior painting and pressure washing Roofing repairs and uh replacement exterior windows and doors face Shar s and gutter repairs exterior stairs Rams handrails fence installation repair replacement dock seawalls repairs exterior Code Compliance all this is staying there so if I sell if if if I do these pairs I'm improving these things so for whoever owns it so whoever owns it and it's what's so we're going to collect the money back we're going to spend a lot of time and effort in monitoring this why because the roof is staying they're not taking it with them they're probably not going to take the front door with them they're certainly you know I mean you could mess up the paint in two years but I mean like it's a lot of time and effort for something that's that relatively permanent so we're spending a lot of time on this let I just say give them the $5,000 let them fix it up or what sometimes they're only going to spend $2,000 it's a lot of effort and time and Reporting and then we have to follow through get the money back and the whole goal is to make the neighborhood better and this doing those things does make the neighborhood better whether I own it and then I sell it to you then it's still better so I'll go either way but that that's a great point I mean it's uh and if you didn't do it I couldn't buy it I get $5,000 to do it and I live there so I mean you're very very true to the point it's it's it's solving the problem do we need to worry about it at all well the thing is we can do it you know so if you sell your house here what they do is they send you they send you a lean form anyway so why wouldn't we if we give them a loan for 5,000 or 10,000 for a business make a make a dummy account in the uh water bill system and then you know you could do like Dash two or something and then every time somebody sends in a lean you look that up you say okay there's a there was a you know you ain't got it wouldn't cost you anything you know then you'd still have that every time they did a lean You' see that two thou or $5,000 however much it is that's there and it wouldn't cost us anything but putting a a dummy account into our into our black mountain system you got to record a lean that's not going to do that that's record we don't record a water bill when they owe that I mean it just goes on a lean and then we send it there and they they put that as part of the it when they pay it and they send us our money so that's the same thing we do now I mean we could do that now we just put hey they owe us $5,000 for this roof send them the lean form when we fill it out and say okay it was $800 for a water bill and $4,000 for this so so let me out of a bll yeah let's see if I understand so I get a $5,000 Grant City creates a $5,000 account that is basically I don't pay on but I owe $55,000 once two years expires then that goes to zero right and if I sell my home and I close my account then then a lean gets created so if we if we're doing half after two years you could just go in there when they send the lean paper and say okay he owes 160 bucks for his water bill and $2,500 on this you know and but that's not always the case because you do a delayed lean two years later always the case because our water customers are not all in City well this would all be City it would be it would be a simple thing city be a portion of the city and you could just do like you know an address of 429 Leo lane-2 and have that sitting on there so when you pull that account up with that house I mean that lean you you can see two accounts there sounds sneaky to me yeah I mean it's it I mean and nobody nobody questions if you send an $800 water bill lean to them you know what I'm saying so if they did question it we have it paperwork to back it up say Hey you know this was the the deal it wouldn't cost us anything we would have lean the house and cost us 50 150 bucks however much cost to lean a house and it's just there like sneaky accounts against your citizens I don't like it yeah the the only real benefit obviously is if they do that get it back is to push more money out of other than that who really cares it was fixed they're not getting it until they fix it it's give the $5,000 and say go fix your has to be fixed so the benefit is to the city that it is approving so you know it yeah we could we could put stuff in place to get it but again it's it's relatively small amount it solved a problem it got roof fixed or whatever do we really need to worry about it it's probably it's probably one of those things is cost more to deal with and not everybody's G toist $100,000 in every Grand of that $100,000 it's not like all those people are going to sell our houses in two years and we're going to be collecting on everybody you have one off and do we really have something in place to deal with that good point point if it was a real problem and that was happening all time then we always free visit say hey we going to get this money back we're seeing a trend or something but I don't you know you may have a one off here and there but it's pennies SCH things more more cost more to try to administer it um well no DAV have comment so the consensus there is is it going to be a shall or a must so I make a motion that we approve resal without a payback amendment I a motion to approve as is taking the payback one correction there's already one this is the correction number two first one was to add the mandatory meeting meeting oh yeah so okay and add the and the meeting with the okay so motion to approve as is adding the mandatory pre meeting what we call it and to remove the pullback second Mo second any fur discussion about what about tying it back to the permits if permits are needed then you need to sure that they get flagged through that as a result of that meeting and permits are moov moving [Music] through I got motion a second no public comments so offer and I bring it back for a vote all in favor say by saying I I opposed motion carries next up item number three approval c commercial exterior Improvement matching grant program for year 2025 I'll pass it to Mr coppler for his introduction that s releas no you know in L of reading this whole thing um so you want to bring this back to no no it's I I think there was only because we've talked about this before there was only a few uh changes that was recommended and I believe I put those all in here um but again the the nuts and bolts of it is that uh we're given up to $20,000 um there's a time period that they do have to maintain ownership ship or they have to get in writing the the person that they're selling it to will maintain it um and I don't remember exactly all the other changes that it didn't require a building like fix in there yeah right Chang the the property um so I think I corrected everything that was brought up but if there's something new we can talk about that um the only comment that I had as on page 32 at the very top it says maximum project budget of 40,000 and then minimum project budget of 5,000 the the one concern what what I believe this says is if if my project is $41,000 I I it's I got I can only go to 40,000 which PID you on uh 32 page five of eight of the actual thing the 32 packing so understanding if you go over 40,000 you're only getting 20 right right but the way this to me this says that my maximum project budget is 40,000 so if I go above that there is no well so that's for example if a project costs 40,000 this year probably 20,000 business must fund 20 so project cost 50,000 they would only fund 20 see what that that that would exce the maximum project budget it should State the maximum maximum reimbursement should be 20,000 doesn't matter what it could be a gazillion dollars budget you get right anything 40 yeah you don't lock yourself in saying once you get above 40,000 we are going to help you and is there a reason for a minimum that that's the next thing now that maybe has some Merit because you just don't want to P any projects you want actually some substantial stuff going down maybe they only need something you know well again [Music] but what if they need a $4,000 project then they could get buiness is different than residential yeah they're starting a business and and you need a whole lot more than $4,000 to do no but for example if you needed a new front door in your business I could see that $3500 $4,000 and that you wouldn't get anything for that so I would I would just recommend we just strike those two B points sounds good yeah I mean I I the maximum I there was an issue with that minimum that I'm okay with striking to but it again if if the goal is to try to get bigger projects done so you aren just you know paying somebody 100 bucks here 100 bucks here you're actually saving for somebody who wants to get up 2 200 it's more the city's the whole idea behind the business thing is you're you're you're building that up you so you want to encourage that but I'm okay striking it too whatever you guys think that's fine so is it any discussion yes um on U page 34 I noticed the reimbursement period on the business was within 30 days after the project inspected but on the residential it was 60 days um there again we can make it 60 or I was thinking making it 30 in the residential side you already approved that yeah make same 60 because you might not the reality is the reality is is you're going to try to reimburse they're to get the money as fast as you can the same but in case there's a hurricane Helen and Milton to come we might need a little longer unless somebody calls one of their U Representatives up here and they're going to say hey why isn't my check in the mail right and actually that happened to me and the individual didn't turn all the paperwork yet so we answered the question it is going to be different I would rather have 60 days for the for the business 30 for the res because the res is going to need to M but the guy already had 180 days I mean well that's the most me that's that's the and with the with the interest rates where they are we want to keep that money as long as possible I think we make consistent 60 you guys with that make consistent all right within 60 days yeah 30 actually that's fine make it the same so is issues so with that I need a motion to approve as is striking the minimum and maximum project budgets and um second to Second and to uh um to add 60 days instead of 30 days for the reimbursement period so second a motion second for discussion any of our public like this comment SE no hands I'll bring it back for a vote all in favor s i saying I I opposed motion carries that concludes uh board business old business discussion old business anybody have any comments old business I do want to say one thing Pat did was come did come around on Sunday and he was handing out the the grant program things to people who were outside working and I thought that was great um guys I know you all fire police and and utilities and you guys have been working real hard so handing out perfect thank you that's all I have awesome anything else motion toour okay she said motion Jour I think second I give Dave you got to Jour other meeting all in favor say I