United States America the rep for it stands nation under God indivisible liy may I have a roll call chairman Matthew coppler here member Todd McClary let the record show that member Todd McClary is absent from today's meeting member John Eric Hoover here member Denise McKenzie okay next on the list is comments from the general public and I see no one has signed up but does everybody want to speak you know we can't compete with Council meetings if you don't [Laughter] speak land I mean you know if you think about land use you can work anything in but thank you for your non comments we appreciate that um next comments from city manager and committee members I guess some city manager so I have no comments but we'll start over here I do have a comment um I was listening to the city council meeting on my drive back today sorry about sorry about that where you coming from New York yeah it's on is on yeah you have to kind of lean into that a little bit um anyway I listened to the city council meeting and um about the priorities and uh goals um Eric I appreciate that you brought up about dredging not being in the priorities especially when we're talking about like our wetlands and you know preserving the river and you know we're the coastal and conservation and Coastal management when this is like what we're talking about how can it not be at the Forefront of what we're doing I don't understand that yeah that's my point as well um and I I don't understand how that went to vote and then yeah makes little sense to me we waterfruit community on the river that's my comment yeah do you want to comment on that well I I you know I have a I guess a a psychological point of view on that how that could happen because there's a number of things that when you look through there and I think you brought up later on about the whole thing about you know fiscal management and and all that and sometimes people will look at that and say well of course that's a priority you know who doesn't think that and then when they have the opportunity to actually do the vote with the little dots to put up there they pass it over because well of course you know we do that and we move on so I I guess I'm not really surprised that it didn't happen but we don't do that well judging I well I mean again I think that's a a part of the overall I mean from you know my perspective you know there is a commitment from all of council memb I've spoken to all council members that you know the water quality issues and Improvement of of everything related to that I mean not only water quality but also you know the resiliency piece of you know preparing for the changes that we're going to need to make with uh you know the housing stock and lifting and you know the different ways to manage the storm water that's all on the front burners with everyone and I know there's an IES moving forward on those things that will be coming forward so I again I understand what you're saying but I think I I can't explain how it happened because when you look at the the the field of view of everything that was on that list and some of the things that they chose to be more of a priority um you know they're things that maybe weren't as you know ingrained in in in the blood of people I guess the best way you look at it I mean can you explain to me why for those meetings or those workshops that only Council and the city staff voted on that well because of great so so a it's it's ultimately the council's goals um B we you know typically um we've done these and I've done them in many communities um there's first development of how you go about your own goal setting and then as you progress in that then you start broading okay you know and remember this this was my third month that I was here typically you have more of a lead up you would be starting these things more in advance where you start engaging the public and asking what what were the elements of things that that you think are important now going into the next one we're going to have our CA CRA um Plan update which is again engaging the public to say what they think important it's going to be now information for city council to act on we're going to have uh the comp plan work that we're doing with the uh the public to engage them and you know what they think the community is going to be so that's going to be another element of information to give to the council as to what the The Residency is needs and wants um and I'm assuming that we're going to be doing this I mean I think I have it on my schedule to do it is some type of Engagement as a community um um excuse me a survey I couldn't think of that word Community survey actually drive information that way as well something that I would like to see we do on an annual basis because I think it's not enough just to ask the question once you got to keep asking to see if that changes because I think that's you know something that happens in communities that that are growing or changing demographically um that priorities do shift amongst the is there and unfortunately you know here council chambers there's a little bit of insulation that happens and they don't often see that change that's going on within the community until it shows up in the council meeting if that makes sense and and so doing those type of surveys actually allow to see that shifting of what people believe in advance of it actually becoming an issue where people are now com to the council about what's driving the the change and I think you know kind of see right now where where as we talk about development that that there is this this mindset of of what people believe is the right type of development and in some communities that that drives communities apart because they're never able to come to to grips with finding the sweet spot in the middle that everyone which is part of what you know and and her uh group is going to be doing for us is to try to find The Sweet Spot of what people really want to see in the water overly District but it really is coming together and finding you know the common grounds which goal setting really is and for the first attempt at goal setting the council has not done goal setting before the first one really had to be about you know how they work together how they can make you know a decision on on what they believe their goals again you know in in that meeting there was only one dot put on the the water quality issue and I don't I didn't go back to look see if that was if you ask residents I'm pretty sure they would the residents would have more to say about the water quality issues and things like that and I so I get that this is like step one right this is going to be an annual thing that we do so it's not the end of the world but it does seem like we've taken step back you know that's we started to get momentum on it and then I hear Bob say that people are just drudging it themselves but that's not allow you have to have somewhere for the drudging material to go you can't just do it you're G to mess up other people's TR you know so it's not if if someone's dredging themselves they're not following the law right challenged him on that so I I mean I I haven't seen any large scale dredging going on so if he's saying dring I think what he's talking about is if they're putting in or repairing their their docks or seaw walls there may be a little bit of dring going on with that go ahead if you don't [Music] mind Dave Miller 54 39 Bo even got Gary to say it the other night anyway um I believe what he was saying is people are taking it upon themselves getting their own permits and doing it that way that's not what I've experence okay neighborhood there there are people that are doing it that way and um to some extent um Canal maintenance is a different level of dredging and that can be obtained um those permits and stuff can be obtained pretty easily as opposed to dredging a channel that in the main river which is a different animal than a canal canals are man-made they come under a different thing uh in fact Devin um Devin Aaron is is looking at that right now he he's meeting with u d and uh EPA to really facilitate what what that's going to take because he's interested in doing himself right but that's just for his property no no no I get that so I mean how does that benefit that's one instance I know I know of others that have gotten permits and done it themselves as well so that's the only thing thanks I obviously the and I speak for myself not the whole board but I have a feeling that the whole board is committed to those things while it doesn't show us a priority on there which again I I brought it up uh it kind of baffles me why we wouldn't make that change but that being said it's on the list as an opportunity allows item and I can tell you if I'm going to continue to push forward and I'm sure the board is uh on board that as well it's very important again it didn't shake out that way on the list of priorities but it it is a priority even though it's not listed as well obviously that those priorities can shift from year to year so I have a feeling as we um go forward that that probably be addressed maybe at the next one but we're going to still move forward from my perspective on a lot of these things we activly meeting we're actively pursuing funding so um I wouldn't I wouldn't let where it falls on a list speak more than it really means it's it's an item that's definitely of importance so um it's a priority to me person F comments thank you I'm good okay moving right along can't hear me chair uh let's see agenda comprehensive land use Plan update conservation Coastal management element objectives and policies review sitation Tammy br br Consulting thank you nice to be here with you today um I believe on Monday Ashley sent out a cleaned up copy of the conservation related goals objectives and policies um we're not going to get into the coastal management stuff because I got to the point where it was like such an explosion it's almost there but I didn't want to send it to you and be confused later on whenever we're trying to go through it in more orderly fashion we can talk if we have time we can always talk about some of those issues at the end of this meeting so what I had provided to you was um I had my little note on the front it was dated the 22nd of April so I thought what we would do is just kind of roll through these and wherever I have are you not seeing Matt what are you looking at I lost it keep going I'm I'll catch up Don't worry um so we we could just scroll through Page by page so I can pick up any of your comments along the way um and then we can talk about any and then we can also discuss any new policies that I have added and those are indicated by new policy as we go through it so does anybody have anything for the first page which would be page 27 I believe that's your 27 in your document and this this uh these objectives will be related to the ecosystem okay you said 27 are you looking at something that has like green boxes objectiv oh CCM 27 okay so CCM 1.1 which is the objective number is the first one we'll go through and and we'll um so I did do some research into what the county requires relative to its wetlands and it does a classification uh system very similar to what the almost identical to what the city does um but category one wetlands in the county are now 100 acres or more it used to be 40 Acres now is 100 now we need need to keep in mind the context of what occurring in the county is not necessarily on the coastline there may be a reason to keep your Threshold at 40 that would just be my assumption and then also that's in policy 1.1.6 are those definitions and then let me get to it here um the 1.1.10 Upland buffer for for a category one Wetland is the in the county they have well actually in the city there 30 foot uh Upland buffer around post-development category one Wetlands for anything lower than that category two and three they defer to the the Water Management District so for those more pristine Wetlands you would have that larger buffer but then it probably would be a 25 foot buffer from the Water Management District so any thought on having that buffer apply only to the category one Wetlands versus the category one and two so it it does right now it only applies to category one is what you're saying yeah right now it's for in the city it's category one and two we one and two in the county they only do the the bigger buffer relative to the category one Wetlands okay I would probably mimic the county on that so it wouldn't apply to two we have it now two and three would be same you have one two and three but the buffer that you have only applies to one and two right count only applies to one on the right so I'm thinking just for uh consistency relative to like people who are doing development with I mean with obviously somebody has decided that category one is what should be protected with the higher standard uh and then the Swift Mud standards would kick in for anything that's lower than a category one I that's just a comparison I I don't have any preference one way or the other I'm just reporting what I found okay County right well yeah I think so I'm I'm assuming with one if we didn't have a 30 foot buffer it wouldn't be less than what Swift Mud would be requiring right or it Swift mud's 30 as well I think Swift muds is based I think theirs is um is based on the resource so I think that they would determine that based on the environmental evaluation that they did okay but it could be it could be less but I would think for category one and and the reason that these standards came up a while back is that the um the state was indicating to local governments it's your resource you can protect it to the extent that you would like to protected because sometimes what's happening maybe on a state level could or at least on a district level could be sort of one siiz fits all but you have that prerogative locally to have something that is a higher standard it can't be less right than the what would the environmental resource permit would be but it could be more yes I I just was assuming that the 30 would probably be more than what they would be doing yes it could be more yeah but I would think that in a a community where the ability to hold on to storm water and soak up storm water that buffer is really important um and granted maybe the the county had looked at that larger buffer for only category one because those are bigger systems and so that you know proportionately I guess that buffer is more protective of that bigger system as opposed to you know maybe it would be more appropriate to ratchet that down to a 25 foot for the Water Management District um for the lower level categories but if you wanted to consider a change that's that's the change I have presented in the document any thoughts so heard from you yeah so you're saying like on CCM 11111 two and three that would Swift Mud would be who defines the buffers for those okay so any any um any development that has Wetlands on site requires a environmental resource permit from the water management districts regardless of one two or three but we would defer the city would defer to the Water Management District for those lower level categories or you could keep the one and two if you want that higher standard um that's certainly something that you could just maintain prefer higher stand and the category two um Wetlands we have an example of that category two do we have that map so the maps actually are um they're the Swift Mud land use and land cover Maps they're not necessarily generated by um any anybody but they have categorized them on the colored map we we had it before I don't have it up with me now but those would be those that would be less than 40 but more than let's see if where it is here on the wrong page here uh less than 40 more than five and the the buffer for the category one is 30 foot 30 foot it's right now it's 30 foot for category one and two right and so on what's the what's the buffer that the count if we went to the county standard what would the buffer be dropped down to so it would be 30 they defer to the Water Management District do we know what that is I I I I don't know if it's done on a caseby Case basis but I believe it's 25 so you're talking about five feet additional and sound like let they doing a case by case basis so maybe maybe would be 30 or would it would never be more than 25 is that you say Case by case basis less than 25 well be less less of 25 but they may require more yeah I don't know I don't know if the science is behind how they go about determining what the Wetland buffer they they they evaluate the quality and the St and all the ASP I mean from my perspective there's a lot a lot of more smarter individuals looking at this on that on that scale so I would be more inclined to I mean do we need to have it more restrictive if there's a reason for that then okay but I mean these guys are doing this for the living they they make these recommendations so I I feel with mimicking that I do too only five exactly there not much that's why I ask a question how much different is one to so yeah I think okay you got any thoughts on it I'm with you okay so we'll mimic the C let's see what my next question was okay so the other thing is relative to Wetlands and any density and intensity credits for the wetlands on a site so right now it's your standard says to provide credits for preserving Wetlands based on their their quality the size type classification and their quality so later on the comp plan like a little bit down below refers to one: one transfer of development intensity or density out of and away from the wetlands and the buffers uh is required in all future land uses other than residential Recreation open space Coastal lands Wetlands so that's that says to me that you can get one for one credit for commercial mixed use indust did you read that way for everything but so I'm just like wondering if it makes sense relative to residential because in all cases in most cases you've got zoning that will keep your density down so if you had a f like a 10 acre lot and half of it was wetlands and the density was 10 acres per unit or 10 units per acre if you gave credit for that Wetland you could get 20 units but the zoning if it didn't allow that because the lot sizes or the backs and all the stuff that go in play the only time that it could affect how much that you're actually building is if it's a PUD because then you're making your standards so I don't know if this was put into place because there was a concern about changing neighborhood character based on being able to transfer density out of your Wetland areas so I'm just trying to like think back as to or think about why this would have been structured this way because up above it saying set the standard way down below it's saying this is this is a standard but it doesn't affect all land use categories I I can see based upon some of the land that has not been developed yet and one of the reasons is the wetlands on it I mean I think if if you incentivize denser development on those areas your you're giving rise to More multifam Concept than than single family concept but I'd have to imagine that was thought there that it was not a desirable yeah right they were trying to that from happening keep single family yeah preserve that character so I I believe in the county the um they allow a 25% density credit density intensity credit out of the wetlands but for some reason you're they're in here we're looking at one to one out of your more intensive Lanes categories commercial industrial so you know what what is the the value system now is it you know more intense more compact development and does that make sense where you have commercial future land juice category and and should it apply to residential and maybe we may make Provisions for places that might be planing a de well Planning Development also needs to be compatible yeah that's a Criterion for so perhaps it there could be a safeguard for allowing that onet toone transfer out of wetlands for residential with the caveat that there also be a neighborhood compatibility um consideration but our densities that we have the I think residential 18 18 is the maximum right is that is that relatively low compared to other that so what so in the city of Port Richie you have one future land use category residential in you have a a layering so you've got a res six and a res nine and you know there's a lot of different um so what youve relied on is you're saying these are where residential will reside and we're going to rely on our zoning to tell us what kind of residential density could actually go in so there's always that sort of Governor that you know brings it down um the only sort of like wild card is PUD PUD should be something that provides a community benefit and certainly is compatible with surrounding uses so as long as you feel that your Criterion control over that which I think you do you have as I've gone through recently there's 19 criteria in order for you to get a a resoning and I think a Future Link use plan Amendment they're kind of related that way well P for the P be resoning so as long as the city is considering all of those things you could have some controls as to how much density would be going in now granted too some of your Wetland areas are probably AB budding residential and some of it's very category one a lot along your Coast so again do you want maybe that's a place where you don't necessarily want a whole lot of additional units uh just because of the vulnerability um considerations so maybe this is something that we look at a little bit deeper when we get into future land use in the future um but I guess be thinking of that well we can come back to it next meeting so you have some time to like dwell on that but I think we if it says we should have a standard we should have a standard that makes sense I think kind of looking at land that has not been developed in the city it has some developable land I think because of of the small areas that they would be able develop they would I mean you would tend to think that so I guess the way I look at now is those those areas that a single family development makes sense for the most part has been done right and and so because you're just not going to get the units on the land to make sents of the money to develop so the concern would be that you know one reason they're not profitably developed right now is because there's a high development cost they're in areas that either are impacted significantly by although prob not pristine Wetlands but high high keeper Wetlands you know ones we don't want to have imp you know a lot of impact on um and the second piece is that they're probably more prone to the impacts of coastal flooding that you know we're g to issues evacuation yeah we're probably even going to put more difficult um development standards on them to build them up and out and you know what's really important in your land ju decisions is that there is attention to your comprehensive plan policies and also to the criteria that you have in your Land Development code everything needs to work together so it's not an absolute 18 units per acre everything that's a maximum everything else needs to come fall into line to make sure that you're making sound land use decisions so I believe that you have you have the tools to no irrespective of this so like talk about that but you have the tools to be able to make good land use decisions you know could be some use some cleanup and updating but um as long as they're used I think that's the important thing so maybe we need to like look back at this like what's on the ground now that apply to that residential and how does that relate to density credits right you know do you want do you want it because there might be some places that are appropriate for do you normally see in in Florida do you normally see this this type of credit in the compreh comprehensive land use plan well because it's um it's it's the Wetland aspect the Wetland preservation so you it's almost in a I guess in some cases uh communities could give zero but it's an incentive to preserving that Wetland now you you what you're doing is you're giving the absolute incentive categories because you're given one to one but not in residential okay but you're saying even if we keep it one to one it still should go through Planning and Zoning oh yes if it's on so it's so that's another G yeah if you kept it one to one everything still needs to but when they go through and they they're calculating up well how many units can you get or how many square feet can you get of development you can apply that Wetland category you could apply that Wetland acreage to the calculation so it ends up being you know pencils out to more now Your Land Development regulations could affect that your buers your setbacks your um height limitations that all the things that kind of help it to be context sensitive appropriate um but yeah right now you can um that would all be subject to review by and the county is what did you 25% 25% I don't think their plan is being updated right now so their plan their policies are somewhat old so it's you know I could only see what I could see I would wonder if that wouldn't be increased actually I you know what I could probably call somebody over there just to find out if they've got some draft policies okay we I we're gonna have another bite of this apple next meeting so we can come back to it okay let me see what my next question was mitigation requirements I believe that um U Mr mlar was asking regarding the the ratio so this would be the if you disturb a wetland how much Wetland do you need to mitigate for so if you serve one acre do you have to replace it with 1.5 Acres sorry excuse me um I did look under the uh Army Corps of engineer engine they had for um impacted Wetlands or other waters of the US so those would be your higher level mostly c um coastal wetlands I would think for category one it's three to one so for every one acre that you disturb you have to provide three acres category two is 2: one and a category three is 1.5 to one and that's for preservation then they have something for restoration and enhancement also another question was how long should the viability test be for those Wetland replanted Wetlands so um I think we had three years for her basis wetlands and five years for forested so excuse me we had two years two and then five so one to three years um allows to assess immediate survival and establishment and early detection of issues and 3 to 5 years monitoring um allows you to evaluate for long-term trends so I would think for the herb basist which are like more quick growing that the threeyear monitoring period might maybe increase that by one year and then for the forested tree keep that at five okay that and then um and maybe we should wait till the next Mr talk about because he was questioning those Wetland mitigation rates and that's not a strong area for for me so um you know I think we have some comparison but you know what's the right fit for Richie so [Music] okay so just rationale on when you're when you're disturbing those all of them had a a higher ratio to you disturb an acre R category three it was one and a half that we said yeah these are for um those are for impacted Wetlands or Waters of the state of of the US so those are probably your coastal wetlands and then you could have uh the other agencies that are involved with mud they probably would have their theirs and actually so in use let's say I disturb an acre and I have to give an acre and a half back that when I give that acre and a half am I expanding my Wetlands actually you know to what you were saying before for about the science and who owns who has expertise within their their agencies so if you impacted Wetlands they're going to have to go for permitting in those agencies so if it's a you know Wetland just like a category two Wetland it's going to go to Swift Mud but if it's a Waters of the US you're going to have to go for the Army Corp of engineer so you could defer to those Wetland mitigation rates that would come out of that permit process what are those well I think it like well we know for the Army core of engineer what it is I just reference those and those would be one for preservation and the other one's for if you're restoring or enhancing a wetland so um it's it's what did you say like 3: one 2: one 1.5 to1 or I just my my question is if you're the goal is to preserve to me it's a one to one why why why you want to I there's a reason I don't know what it is obviously but why would you need to to give more you know sometimes you're you're trying to restore build build so I mean the thought is that you you have a a working Wetland that has value so I don't want you to go in and Destroy something that's working so if you're going to do it think about about it because it's going to cost you more to do that disturbance so you you want to disincentivize again a working Wetland you know you can you can try to restore or put a new wetland in but then it may not work and so you're not you know you're not one for one that so the question that was brought up last time was relative to um policy c.1 point2 1 3 which is in your comp plan and it indicates two acres of wetlands shall be created for every one acre of wetlands altered um unless requirements are enforced unless other requirements are enforced pursuant to below and then it says that the city council could require something less and I think that's what Mr mlar was saying we should so what I put was in the event of overriding public benefit which is defined under c. 2.6 in the in the call plan [Music] um but it would no be no less than 1.1.5 this conversation now yeah yeah yeah my question that was is that why would you take that overriding capability out because at the end of the day council could change the plans to do whatever they want anyway it's just an extra step so okay instead of having to change the plan to PL across the board it makes sense to on a caseby Case basis you might want to allow it for certain things for whatever reason yeah and I think that when you when you define overing public benefit and you defer to that it's it gives at least Council something to say well this is the benefit that we're getting through this impact so the tradeoffs might be right worth it let's see what that is [Music] I'm even all lost in my numers um are those actions required by local state or federal governs necessary for the promotion of Public Safety health or general Ware welfare such as storm water management activities or the provision of Water and Wastewater facilities but not including roadways not including what roadways so if you wanted to do like a storm water management project and you had to clip a piece of wetland in the process then that could be something that you you were able to reduce that mitigation requirement de Provisions in there about you know wind dredging and filling is permiss permissible um permitted activities in a in a wetland so those are all from your existing plan and that mitigation will be the final option when no other reasonable alternative exist and avoidance and minimization of the impact cannot be achieved so you got some guardar rails and feel free to stop me as I scroll through these looking for the next thing I need to talk you with you about under let's see storm water there was a question about the cities require dorm water management process projects to be designed and operated to protect and enhance natural systems and then I add the biodiversity and EST estro Waring productivity and Mr McClary was pointing to the penela storm water manual and its uh postd development discharge rate um this does have a storm water level of service standard in the public facilities element um and I believe that is the did I write it down somewhere I mean there is a standard that exists so that's where it would live is in the public facilities element but I don't know how panella's counties Rose to a higher level there's a lot of different standards in that Mand that I wasn't certain which ones would apply to a comp plan because there was a lot of fine grained decision process that would that would be in that so maybe when Mr mlar is back we can talk about that again and I think that oh here it is back here I put it in the back storm water management facilities must accommodate the 25e frequency 24-hour duration design storm under Peak flow which is typical but I don't know if there's something that's higher does the city that's ours right in your comp plan was isn't the answer it depends upon where it's at and what's what's the condition that you're well I think that you I mean that's that's a minimum right that's the minimum so when you're when you're reviewing development and they're doing their onsite storm water retention they need to make sure that they can accommodate those those Peak conditions 25 year frequency 24-hour duration storm and then there's some water quality standards as well typically those those standards are a lot I mean those are very mathematically based you go into a development yes I mean there's a lot of math because I've seen the yeah because they have to know how big the Pond's going to be right right exactly and then also the the you know how big it's going to be the how the drainage is coming off of a site how to treat for the quality to make sure that it's not impacting the receiving water that it goes into so there's a lot of science that that goes into that but that's where it's important to have your standard because you know at least this is what they're going to Des for right so I guess to that end um is it that that standard though the update was 2020 that does that go back to 20 or 2000 or is that 2020 because I know that there's been a lot of change in what is the accepted this is probably storm rate that you should be building to now probably 2009 Okay so 2020 is the Horizon of the plan so nothing's been updated since probably 2009 okay but there's new standards that's I'm because I know in a lot of the more urban areas that I've been those storm water standards are really crazy I mean it's not 25 years that they're building to it's the 50 and plus do you know if your adaptation plan mentions anything about storm water standards and I and I have all of the slides i p I made some slides I'm not sharing them with you today because they're not very I'll look real quick I don't know quick quick yeah I don't see anything Citywide and that would be something Citywide yeah the only thing that I I would be wondering is is it today not 25 year but like a 50 year so instead of um 24 a 25 year it would be more of a 50 year yeah that's I'm one and believe me I'm not saying that that's fact or anything I'm just I know that in my time as being a manager uh from 2006 to 20 2022 different states but you know their their storm water requirements were based on different a different storm Peak or storm well in the pelis county one that was just updated this past year because I went to that their meeting for comments theirs is a 25y year 24hour um for open basins and up to including 100 year 24hour for closed bases that's it right there yeah so it's a higher standard if there's no if you're in a bowl and there's no place for the water to go and even even more for if you don't have a basin so I mean so again in some of the urban areas where I was at you know you can't fill a basin and you don't have parking lots to to put you know an under Bas is a a um a drainage Bas like an overall like water like you're in the coast things are flowing off to the coast right but when you're in land some areas are actually a depression and there's it's a closed bace and there's no place for the water to go right so that way you have to account for that they usually call them um they have a special special designated flood Hazard area or something along that or drainage area yeah so typically in the urban areas you know you're You're Building whatever the pipes are you know the pipes are designed at a certain standard you can't you can't put more water in there in a short duration than what that that's going to allow so you either have to have INR storage or yeah you have to do a yeah dig down deep and have a swiming pool yeah that's I guess that's you know and I don't know the difference in all this but but that's just what I was thinking of is maybe the 25 year is not an absolute that we need it's not it's not one siiz fits all it's got to be in the right okay okay let me do more investigation on that because now I have a sense of what we were thinking of okay let's see where I am now that I can Orient you where I am on the page so we're done with Wetlands storm water man management I did include a new policy uh you have outstanding Florida waters within the the city and those have a higher uh water quality standard assigned to them by Statute so I just put maintain or improve background ambient water quality in the Nature Coast aquatic preserve outstanding Florida water and the wetstone berkovitz outstanding Florida Water by minimizing ution from storm water runoff land uses and activities such as septic systems I'm guessing that you have some septic systems still in the city still you have some septic systems I you're not you're not permitting new ones yeah um you know off top of head I'm not sure of ones we would have okay but it does not say there aren't there's usually some but that's great you guys are solid now so anyway when you're doing your land use decisions and it's affecting an area around that just to look at that with a little bit of a higher uh lens and then I'm moving down to page 33 habitat protection let's see if there's anything new in here so we did indicate um living shorelines as a measure to promote the use of living shorelines as a sustainable and effective approach to Habitat enhancement and then other aspects of coastal resilience um that's policy 1.2.10 then 1. 1211 is and that's on page 34 local Fisheries promote sustainable fishing practices Marine resource conservation and habitat restoration initiatives to support local Fisheries recreational boating and Mar Marine based Industries so you want to keep your fish your fishes happy so people continue to want to go out and catch them and then uh 1.2.12 outdoor lighting standards to establish and Implement outdoor lighting standards to minimize impacts on Coastal ecosystems including marine life nesting Birds bats and pollinators light pollution cansas Dru navigation feeding and reproduction and there may be aesthetic reasons to address outdoor lighting but in this one we're keeping it to the the environment the next would be 1.2.13 uh use easements and land trust so to encourage the creation of conservation easements and land trust to secure and protect habitat lands in perpetuity while providing financial and other benefits to the land owner so in some cases there may may be uh and I know the county has some priority areas that they're they're trying to purchase through their acquisition program um and there may be some of those areas that butt up to the city I don't know exactly where they are but I'm sure there's coastal areas involved but this way if there were um insul incentives for those Property Owners to participate in that they could establish a conservation easement where they get to continue living on the property but they've essentially given over the other use of the property um to that government entity or could just be outright outright acquisition so my only comment on that would be should be providing instead of providing oh so while oh while provide while providing thank you any input on typos is appreciated uh the next one is habitat restoration so to restore Disturbed and degraded environmentally sensitive lands to enhance biodiversity and ecological functions through targeted measures such as Urban refor reforestation living shorelines seagrass and Mangrove plantings Wildlife corridors Greenway corridors that smm there yeah you have double such as too by the way do I have two such ases yeah oh my should be such targeted measures as if we want to be excruciatingly correct no no let's do it such targeted oh I see goodness [Music] just make a big there we go fix that later and the last one is and this is something you you may or not want to do but integrated Pest Management so to implement and promote integrated Pest Management strategies that reduce Reliance on chemical pesticides in favor of less toxic controls only when necessary and in accordance with those um IPM principles to minimize adverse effects on biodiversity that's also to minimize adverse effects on biodiversity um oh I I guess it's on biodiversity and ecosystems so that would affect things such as you know through your city procurement policies you're if you need to address a pest to think about s the least armhole Pro product or toer approach before going to like the higher the ones that maybe are not specific to whatever it is that you're trying to [Music] eradicate the next one is air quality DC M 1.3 and that's pretty much cleaning up the policy that you have relative to automobile and added truck emissions um and then if there were any issues that who you would contact with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection that short and sweet the next one is water conservation so these are just uh ways that you can go about conserving your water so just ideas um when you update your 10year water supply facilities work plan it's nice to be able to show how you're conserving water what kind of programs that you have or you want to implement um so this is sort of a menu but in that one you might you're going to want to be more specific as to what you're actually doing to uh increased consumption per capita consumption of water Zer escaping Zer Escape yeah Zer Escape is drought friendly plant like a so I maybe it's like we could call it like Florida friendly what what did you call it lots of rocks well it could be rocks also but then like you said drop [Music] friendly doesn't need a lot of water more friendly but maybe we could expand upon that just to make it a little more plain language right I've never seen that one before you haven't really you know it really hasn't been used as much in the last decade probably you know it was there for a while but then I think they started to they realized it wasn't plain language and so they started using Florida friendly so it's really drought resistant you know suited for that environment so you don't have to do a lot of not only watering but pesticides and fungicide you know when your plants in a happy spot you don't need to fly water can we go back to the storm water and wastewater Le projects sure so which policy the same one a say STM water and and I'm assuming that's added waste water where are you again 141 item [Music] a one right above the [Music] question okay so am in the same section or I'm going back up to where storm water is it's in the same sa yeah it's water conservation measure oh okay c41 36 go ahead storm water and waste water is waste water already there or is that added underl that's oh I added it so tell me what your your situation with Waste Water Well my concern with the use of Ray water yes processed waste water is that you know that there is a lot of posos in the systems and you're not required to race water to remove posos before you discharge back into the environment here's I may sound intelligent here but only because I've become intelligent as we're looking at what we need to do with our well fills and our water treatment one of the the issues one of the ways that we would get rid of we would do the the treatment the filtration we're going to have a posos discharge something that we have to get rid of and of course really there's no way to get rid of P except the accepted way to do it is you do a very deep well and you inject it down down into an ooper that's not going to see light of day for millions of years no guarantee that it's gone but just not going to percolate up and and so that led to the question about you know where's all this coming from how's it getting into the you getting into our wells and one of the things that that uh EPA is going to be looking at I don't know if they started looking at it is that when you start you know using this treated water it's not treated for posos is going into the higher aquifers all we're doing is effectively getting more posos into the well into the aquifers where a city like us you know our our wells majority of our wells are probably [Music] 80 we have one is but the odds are that it's getting back into the system a lot quicker because we're going this way and not you know coming up from that way so I I don't know if it's a policy we really want to include and so um because reclaimed is considered a water you know water reuse water reuse but you don't have a water treatment plant do you or water no no no we don't and so do you accept County reclaimed at all in the city I I don't think so let's just I'm not aware of it and I guess that's one of the reasons that I I flagged that in my mind when I saw that is well it must not be in there now no let's out open the door no no no and that's good to know and also if you're not if it's not your if no one's asking you to accommodate reclaimed water to begin with but and there's this other added reason not to let's just take it out it is a standard water conservation type it's a water source right yeah no no good point I wonder um with all the push for reclaimed water how that's playing into that that kind of is a big uh yeah issue with that it's it really it's because in talking with the engineering firm that we had talking about the P fosil they're not aware of anything that the feds are doing yet on it but he he assumes that at some point they're going to start narrowing on down on that as well but you you have this this issue of you know benefit you know if you want to relieve the the stress on the Water Systems that reclaimed water is is a benefit and so does you know the possibility of the introduction of more posos into the oer you know outweigh the benefit of you know reducing I mean to me it seems easy but to the the EPA and people that determine these things that it must be more of a calculation thank you for that information that's good to know yes sir you say your name and address please going to make a song Al together now Dave Mueller 5439 blueo Drive um my house is one of them a lot of houses are plumbed for reuse water and have separate uh meters and everything there so at some one point in time somebody made an attempt to try to do that I don't think you're getting you're not getting reclaimed no we're not we're not I shut that meter off cuz the rate was higher than my other one it's easier cheaper to water with the other water than that and it's not reclaimed water it's coming out of the same pipe same water right but the point is is somebody made a decision on one point in time if we're not going to that we've got a lot of abandoned equipment that could be pulled and reused somewhere else um just an idea thank you okay and then there's the water shortage plan which is required to be whenever the county issues uh that restriction then um on the page 37 objective CCM 1.5 the statute does require that the city address energy conservation in the conservation element so I just added some things in there um the new polic policy regarding auditing your city buildings and facilities and operations so that's usually there's a grant have you done that in the past you probably have energy audits like yeah in other states I have yeah not not here yeah so over time it's going to do the next is uh in uh adopting energy saving technologies that make sense um so things like smart meters and um reducing reducing your waste at City buildings the next is 1.5.3 City projects and actually having Energy Efficiency in mind when you're planning your capital projects and also when you're procuring all the items that you have to procure at a city green buildings to encourage energy efficient building designs Technologies and retrofits that minimize energy consumption and cost to Residents and businesses and the well it's not the last one 1.5 addresses Urban heat island and so the reason that's here is because when you have these concentrated pockets of heat producing rooftops and asphalt Pavements it makes it hotter and therefore you need to use more air conditioning to um and also you know it just makes it less comfortable people to be outside and ways that you could address that would be be um expanding your tree canopy you know making sure that you have air flow corridors when you're developing things uh you could use or could um adopt standards for green roofs and walls uh cool roof Technologies and cool Pavements are a big thing right now there's a lot of universities that looking at different white paint surfaces and different kinds of asphalt and then also you know you can strategically place new green spaces within your developments to help brings out I I um installed a pa uh patio and driveway in the back of my house because I'm off an alley and I cannot tell you how hot it made my backyard just putting that P in it was it was night and day difference Southern Exposure and then also Parks Gardens Community Gardens so these are just things to think about as Gardens say it again botanical gardens well it could be Botanical Parks Gardens Community Gardens would you like Botanical somebody think about that well actually I just I read uh a study on on with the living walls and Botanical Gardens and botanical gardens actually in urban areas have a higher uh they they reduce more temperature than living walls and some of these other things that you you talked about and so again you know you look at it for city of Port Richie and you know we don't have these large acreages where you're going to have Botanical Garden but they they suggested that you could mic Botanical Gardens and smaller pocket Parks throughout the area so my thought was because there's a whole goal that's related just to Community Education and engagement so getting the community on board because even as a homeowner you can plant 30 they have this program called like 30 for the birds you can 30% of your yard you could do some planting for wildlife habitat well you could do the same thing relative to sort of heat mitigation right or even just to be thinking about you know someone had said oh you're going to have a lot hotter backyard when you put those papers in maybe I would have picked a different color or you know just education you know I see a lot of these the rooftops now a lot of people are doing black roofs like what is that doing to they're they electric bills and also just radiating out into the environment so you know it's just education when you know better you do better right so I think that it's everybody could have some little bit of responsibility and a lot of these uh projects could be great Community projects you know people love to get involved and have a have a project to work on together so and the last one is renewable so just exploring opportunities for solar energy generation on parking lots on big commercial roofs like a Walmart and then other large open spaces so they're just more ideas they're planting a seed and as you're doing things you might think oh well we we could do that in this location the next one is CCM 1.6 cultural resources that's on page 38 that's pretty much drawing from what you had in your in your in your comprehensive plan today I did make reference to the historic preservation committee I did add the potential for structures and sites because sometimes it's a building sometimes it's an archaeological site sometimes it's a district that's kind of like a site um and then under 1.6.1 Waterfront District survey this is an original one in your comp plan to seek funding for a historical archaeological survey of the Waterfront District so I added Cody River Landing Waterfront District and I don't know if that's appropriate or not and that's something we need to talk about is is Cody River Landing just the area over on the west side of 19 or there before it had some area to the east so this is another conversation but I'm just curious as to how we would describe those areas Landing would be the w w District just W just W to the east side so if you extended W over to the west side which I think is probably warranted well you know initially that that first what of the that first planning effort did show that piece that's down off the River on the east side of US 19 but you know as we're directing people to pay attention to certain little subd districts it might be good to have names for those and I didn't know Cody River Landing was kind of like the downtown you know I think the problem with with it now is there's no real connection there um you know talked about the under under the bridge hi bike trail whatever but uh kind of a separate but that's a need right right so I think as as future comes and we possibly get that connected then that would be a we would extend that W come so right now for this though Cody riverlanding Waterfront District is okay or how would you like to well I I kind of agree with what you said earlier is that that even though it may have you know we may extend WOD over to that area that area is different than than what we consider to be coding land Cody River Landing I think right I think those those are two different well I think it's depending on what happens there's a planning area and then there's the Branded area so I think that's where but the community they think about the Branded area so we need to make sure that we're well that is the east side right now west side west other side toly need West Side Oh yes south from where I grew up I just w I think that's that's what the discussion we just had there is I think he's looking at at the planning area and not The Branding area because I think it does it is different there just like going a little bit further we should just leave this it says Waterfront District right now is that sufficient Waterfront District that's probably generic enough that you could Encompass the other let's let's just get rid of my Cody River Landing I was trying to update it but obviously I think The Branding though is going to creep at some point to over there and it could like you said when there's that connection right it really could be a right almost an expansion of the district okay next one is Waterfront uses and Public Access um borrowing a lot from what's already in the plan how do there's a policy about categorizing your Shoreline uses as either being water dependent water related water enhanced or nonwater oriented for development applications I'm not certain what to do with that um but maybe it's just I'm not certain what do you think that relates to like why would you want to Define I mean it's you you pretty much understand with what's being proposed as if it's going to be I mean if it's something water dependent it needs to be on the water right um water related water so I'm not certain what this policy is doing for me but is it is that mean you're categorizing existing uses of the land or are you are you categorizing PO for development applications right so you're coming in and I and I'm going to process it and I need to know is this water dependent water related is how is I'm how am I going to treat your development differently right I guess it could be prioritized in the sense because it's water dependent but I I'm just certain not certain what this um policy it's just like you're just giving it a name like a or a category category yeah do we have any references to those [Music] categories development idea was to eventually it get put some criteria maybe for prioritization well I mean the next the next section gets I think gets into that because it say in prioritizing you know the water or in uses on commercially designated water from Land right so I mean it's it's saying it's kind of going through the application process right said okay what what is this going to be and if it's a water oriented okay you want to go here but if you don't you know if you're not this then you want to go over here and that to me that that lens you have to have an understanding of the land itself persons within there and designate those because well it seems like we need to Define somewhere what water nonwater oriented is because for instance if somebody wanted to come in to your Waterfront area and they wanted to put something that wasn't water related it wasn't necessarily conducive to the vision for that area you could pretty much say it's really not in line with it doesn't meet this priority area for a water dependent or water related use and uh you know thinking like storage right outdoor storage or a car wash or whatever's being built everywhere um that you could say that really isn't something that the city could support so so the problem I kind of have with this is that you know this this is aimed I guess so let me give you a development scenario let's let's talk about the WD area and um we have let's say the CRA has a parcel of land true imaginary parel L and they have to weigh between two two uh two development proposals that come in one is a coffee ice cream shop and the other is a Bait Tackle Shop so now using this that is a water related water enhance possibly The Bait Tackle shop or water dependent I mean you could fit in the ice cream shop SL coffee shop is strong nonwater oriented nonwater oriented but unless it's fish ice [Music] cream bacon ice cream that might not be too bad actually bacon ice cream but my point being that that depending upon what is going on in that area you know if it's you know not going to be a Le sport fishing docks you know where where it's I'm I'm thinking of uh know Caron Springs where there's a mix of uses there around there that that you know I think in the immediate area where the boat docks are it's more oriented towards water depending water Jason but everything else around there well this is probably related more to working waterfronts yes so but I could imagine in a place like Tarpon Springs you know a big part of that Waterfront is public access and when people are there they need ice cream right yeah so the thing is what what do you do with this if you own property and you're making a decision as to who's going to be the person who leases or owns a property that that makes sense but somebody rolls in and they've got a parcel of land and they want to put an ice cream shop on it you're not going to say it's not water could you say that right no I would agree I mean but I I think you know you kind of create though the impression that that guides people making decisions later on that yeah well you know we're prioritizing water oriented uses on commercially designated waterfront Land which by the way right now we have restaurant restaurant restaurant I mean which aren't water uses so I mean we we're already not going down that road yeah because it's not a it's not a maybe one time in history or for a lot of years there probably was a working Waterfront right there's a lot of fishing boats were going out but now it's become more public space it's diverse yeah more don't those restaurants water enhanced because they have in your boat to get off yeah that's water enhanced that's a good point that's a good Dr boat well I would challenge you on a couple of this needs to be tied toally yeah thetically if someone's coming in and they're asking for some type of a resoning or whatever to be able to accommodate um or if the city is disposing of land and I think that the the water orientation to that use could be used as a as a Criterion or as a prior prioritization uh consideration but right now the way it stands I don't know that it's really there's any teeth in this right it says in accordance with adopted plans so you have to be consistent with your plans let me give a little bit more thought to that but I think I just I guess I question the value of that because you have plans and and you're looking for somebody came in and wanted through a storage prob prioritize that definitely not yeah and that that's I mean I think there's those there are a lot you know an auto shop service shop and and I think though the zoning care of some of that especially the WOD I not going to put an auto shop repair shop um but what what again what worry me is that you could easily you know not that government would do this but government could easily start you know reducing the ability of people to do things with property based upon whether they are um water dependent or water related or water because and again my example is that you know an ice cream shop ice cream coffee shop well you can't go there because you're not you know water dependent water um it's very restrictive yeah that's I guess it starts restricting what also when this policy was written of course I've struck through a lot of it when it was written you did not have the WOD standards so perhaps those protections are in there so maybe it could be a sort of a looser category about um you know giving some sort of consideration to the water orientation or water dependency I think it just it can probably be streamlined down a bit because it really does have everything in there environmental regulations you know Emergency Management hurricane evacuation plans so it's stuff that you're already looking at relative to all your developments um but I just think it's not really honing in on what it needs to little think about like a Riverwalk and Boardwalk and you have stuff along there on the nonwater side that uh ice cream shops or whatever yeah those are right they're not on the water but they're yeah well they're on the water but they're they don't have other than the fact that there's a a boardwalk that walks you right in between it you think about John's Pass or whatever you go you walk along the water there all kind of stuff there oh yeah yeah I see what you're saying yeah so and I if we develop that down there and have some kind of river walk or whatever along there you would probably have some stuff to do along there that wouldn't necessarily be water related yeah I just think that there there has to be more context to [Music] regulations because again you know what what you might see on a peer on a working dock in New York City you're not going to see you know on a a pier in Clear Water right and so it's it's I think it's it's different the way you have to look at the way the land is that now now see I I have a different point of view if that's categorizing what's currently there I think we should categor categorize that there from the standpoint of of you know if if we want to see a transition from what's there to something that the community wants to see there and so an example would be um you know if what was there now was let's say it's a bait shop and it has a a pullup um where you can you know put your your right in your live well yeah I mean and and this probably isn't a good example but this is the best one I can come up in the short where you know we might want to see restaurants and shops there right and so you categorize saying you know these These are good uses but you know we want to transition from this use to another use so then you can start identifying the value of these different uses and that transition right um and incentivize how that can happen too but I mean it just yeah thing is there's no system for for there's no points so you know like you're getting more points this versus that so right you know it's really kind of like I said I think I think an incentive so a way that you could incentivize things like that is through the CRA and you develop a a you know a uh uh a grant or loan that allows it to you know provide Renovations or your ability as opposed to regulating right right but again I just I think considering everything right now I don't I don't see the value in that but yeah this stemed from U something in statute a long time ago that related to the land uses in a waterfront and trying to preserve those for some of your employment based working waterfronts that probably had a lot of pressure for residential you know think about the you know I'm not thinking of any ports right well Port of Tampa Channel Side area you know the port has its property but all that residential is trying to get closer to the water and it really impairs what they can do because they've got secure areas and um so I think this like I said it's a legacy from something else and maybe didn't really apply so much to P Richie I'd agree with that the next one is Marini Marina sighting criteria that's simply just pulled from your comp plan so just probably give that a little bit of a scrutin a little bit of an extra eye just to see if it makes sense and then the marina plan review all these again were like requirements from the statute um you know imple the next one of 1.7.5 regulatory framework you know implementing standards and regulations in the Land Development code which you've done and I'm gonna just take away Cody River Landing and that one as well because let's just keep it generic used to be called the Intermodal Waterfront District but I haven't heard that in a while the to Waterfront Public Access maintain and enhance public access to waterfronts for the use and enjoyment of beaches and shorelines such access may be enhanced through land acquisition easements public RightWay Street ends Parks trails and parking areas consistent with the need of residents and natural resource capacity of selected areas and the coastal zone protection act would um would this be a place we could add developer agreements yeah Y is everybody good with that developer agreements [Music] yeah and the last one is access to renourish beaches there's a requirement in statute so I just rephrase that to facilitate public access to be that have been renourished at the public expense to maximize the benefit of such Investments for the community and that is all I have for you that's in a good shape but I have worked feverishly on the other parts just was not ready to present so is is that and I'm sorry to go back you just wa too fast my bra think that fast three just like try to you guys out of here well C well I do but I I have questions too so when it talks about facilitate public access to beaches that have been nourished is it talking like a private so you know someone has an area that that you know at some point they had a beach hurricane comes in wipes it out it's not there and they renourish it so this comes down to yes so when there are like beaches think of pelis County the beaches and they have the little cities and they've got those little parking areas that you can walk out and get to the beach well in some communities there's no way to get to the beach but if you're accepting public dollars to renourish a beach it needs to be for the benefit of everyone right and so that's what this is getting to now I don't know that you'll ever be in have you ever had we just we just did it oer Park yeah you just did it did you get did you get some sand yeah there's sand there know I know there's sand there but I mean did you bring in sand tons or something it was dropped there I can't I can't believe you're not visiting our beach no the water quality is very good we found so did it get a t there is swimming Somebody went around and tested it and were able to add that awesome awesome hey is there any data on water quality that we need to know about for there there is a little bit I mean is that you know there that's the the the level of I can't remember what is the thing they're looking for so npdes no no it's it's State state's doing the testing yeah comes around for swimming swim yeah it's some FTP like that they test for yeah that's like class water it's actually listed in here somewhere but yeah swimming areas and things like that um okay I I I could start to like talk a little bit about the coastal resiliency but see that tonight let's save our save ourselves for the next time when is the next time two weeks that's my my thing oh I'm sorry I'll stay in my Lane here you want want this curious you want this no I don't well we've been trying to keep on two we schedule okay so today being so your let me ask you this because your public engagement stuff ask about it's GNA be kicking off soon right yep next the 7th I believe we're g we're have a website and a survey ready so we're putting together the photographs um now for the visual preference survey I just met with s regarding the website so he's going to help help us set that up we have a flyer um well it's not we're going to have a flyer I'm still putting it together we did a little logo for the just for this visioning effort not The Branding of the area and um yeah so we'll have something for you guys to look at um probably I would say next week if we can get our photographs collected the ninth and the 10th we're out of pocket yep keep on a Thursday it be what 16th be the 16th that would be the third yeah okay I'm looking right now so that would be the ninth is that the nth no 16th yeah it has to be the 16th where the resiliency conference down in do we want to look at tbrc resiliency conference TPC what are you plan to like launch the website and we have it on our schedule I think the week of the 7th so shouldn't we be before that don't we want to good yeah let's see there's the second assist advisory committee on second right M meeting and a map meeting at night well these are four that means not till 6:30 but what about the eth oh no seventh seventh is what I was thinking I'm sorry s Tu Tuesday that's uh that's not a council week yeah that would work how can we fill in for you you got be going that week I'm not here the what about the 8th Wednesday well yeah not if we have it early enough how long you think we would need for that was the second not good was the second is that too soon oh you know I will I will sacrifice the map meeting to be here to have that meeting oh we can't do that what about on Monday the 6th Monday the 6 I have a I could probably I have a three o'clock but I could probably get out of it I always I'm always there so everybody else misses why not me one time so oh you six of should been training him no no you you're inching your way down there you know pretty soon prove Dave as Tipp secretary yeah do you want to do you want to check so ordered be an officer there do you want to check with um Mr mlar the six well darn it you know give me that gabble out of order if we if we do the e at like three yeah yeah if if she's launching the website on the 7th and we want to look at it first oh you launched on the seventh not the ninth was it when you launched on the website well it's the week the seventh the week of the seventh yes she doesn't have a specific day it's just one day that week so we were trying to make it three weeks prior to the actual earliest you could launch it because I don't want to wait any extra well I mean we got to put the photographs together so earli what's your estimated launch date the seventh was our estimated launch date let's secetary yeah I mean I'm not worried about that yeah let's do the six take that you'll be missed six at four six at [Music] four y00 [Music] good back up she's ready to go I'm with her she is had too many long meetings this week at end know that's what I feel too drug out mo hi thanks everyone thank you