order meeting for Tuesday May 1424 Al to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for [Music] all chairman Chan the record show chairman sha Paul is absent from today's meeting member Randy Stout let the records show that member Randy Stout is also absent from today's meeting member Lisa Lisa Burke member Joe me let the record show that member Joe me is absent from today's meeting alternate member Denise McKenzie alternate member Michael forez City attorney Nancy Meyer looks like we have one signed up is there anyone else that wanted to sign up that didn't get a chance is there anyone else that wanted to sign up that didn't get a [Music] chance Dave Mueller I'm add Brian Smith check one two hey good afternoon Brian Smith uh 8202 cor mail stre Street uh this is a I'm a developer I suppose and this is a property I bought back in November it's a vacant lot about an acre and a half and uh my goal is to do boat and RV storage there but I'm getting the understanding that uh so maybe some people in this commission Andor the city council are having reservations about boat and Ry storage you know in in the city so I wanted to come today and sort of maybe hopefully alleviate some of those concerns you may have and tell you a little bit about the uh project um I'm going to do things like uh you 10- foot fence setbacks landscape buffers and those kind of things so trying to make it a nice place and again it's over on cormell Street near the boat dock so I hope and believe it'll be a good uh street cormell street 8202 cormel which is uh parallel to 19 um Pasco way and cormell papaya streets over there close by as well um yeah I want to say I'm probably a couple thousand feet from the uh boat ramp so I think it'll be a good addition to the Waterfront Waterfront District excuse me I can't talk and again I just want if you guys had any questions or I'm really curious I guess if you're if you have reservations on you know yay or nay I'd like to hear what those concerns are and hopefully I can again alleviate some of those [Music] concerns of the property I let me just jump in um there's nothing specific in front of you about what is being proposed it sounds like at some point there might be so there's really nothing that they can op on um if you're dealing with the bring something for at some point it might come to them and then they can have that conversation but they can't really give you like a foreshadowing what they may or may not do okay I don't know exactly what the conversations are you're having with the city um so that may be best if you talk to the city manager and he can Loop in whoever needs to be looped in okay that would help maybe okay thank you for coming see you see you next time no sir D de M 5439 bluepoint Drive uh I I know you guys are are looking at the context of this ordinance that affects uh section 10278 and various other comp um some of the other components in here I know you're focused on adding the seaw wall Provisions I think are fine uh but there are some other things that were brought up in past meetings uh this would be um the boat lift covers and you know that's kind of in that boat shelters boat slips um I'm just wondering if um might take a broader approach and look at all the pieces of this structure uh provisions and rather than just doing this and have it come circling right back around um but anyway that's that's my observation there and then potentially when you guys get into discussion uh on this um I think we need some um enhanced definitions around some of these terms that's what I saw thank [Music] you I just wanted to let the record show that member Joe me is present for today's meeting apologize for being late [Music] going to take any comments from members in the chair since you just walked in we start this way Denise Mike no and we talked about um on this particular ordinance there's uh there's a discussion of a percentage change um and I know that there's proposed percentage changes going into the city Citywide okay um in the zoning um so I wanted to make sure that the board was aware that if you we're about to sign something in that we may need to amend so we'll talk about that when we get to the ordinance can point out where you're what you're referencing perfect Joe no I'm I just have some things to I'll wait till we get into it and I don't have anything right now so we will get into it so as you know you saw this last time you were here and you guys had some um very specific question questions for nothing about anything that is in here except I did type it um but I don't know any the substance of it so um luckily Mike is here um hope be able to answer some of your questions I know some of those that POS the questions are not here today um so you can kind of start however you wish if you all want to take him one at a time or or however you'd like to move forward um just to start the discussion and I mentioned um last time there was a conversation or request that we also at least discussed boat awnings I we didn't specifically put that on the agenda but that's open this particular um provision and the code that you think we need to tweak or change or continue to talk about or investigate it's open for discussion that's why we made a kind of a generic conversation about this this code provision it's not just about the seaw walls the big part of course is the seaw walls because we've tried to start that and and it's been ongoing for a while so we'd like to move it forward if we can um but if there's other um topics related to this provision we absolutely can address those to well I think Dave made a good point about not doing this twice yes so I think we should I think we should add that in and talk about which they have come up before about the boat left covers and anything else what you brought up about the percentages share that I tried I believe last time we had some of some of our general discussions I tried to find some other code Provisions from other areas that address kind of the boat Awning or boat covers and I really haven't been able to find anything so um I don't have any examples to give to you but obviously if there's something you're interested in doing I can continue to look and what you're hoping to accomplish if that is something you want to change but unfortunately I just wasn't able to bring you a a sample from other who already adust that provision I think we I think we look into it further it's something that people are interested in I whether it's you know permanent or a temporary where cans or not so there's things to be discussed about it so you want to start start with awnings in the mov SE walls after that whatever is your your wish what do you have to say about the awnings anything it's F me I mean code they're not allowed but they're here so I mean that's up to you guys you want to change it and strike it out of there and and just put some kind of parameters on sizing you know condition condition you know what kind of materials just so we don't drag it out to where it looks like our fence issue you know put put some parameters on it and then and it's got to fall within the code of stuff you know for structural ability for you know hurricane resistance and things like that I know there was some discussions about back during a couple of the MS about how the the covers were taken off you know removable tops or Stu there's some out there now they got fixed fixed Tresses so it's whatever you guys decide to do it doesn't whatever you guys put in I'll enforce it so doesn't matter to me so I've spoken with a lot of residents on the water about the that I don't know I don't know how to use this te you did it perfect first first so I've talked to a lot of residents uh in the city about this over the decade plus that I've been here um and pretty much everybody that I know that lives on the water would love the idea of having some type of fixed cover um just because gel coat repair is obnoxiously expensive and some of these boats are worth half a million dollars and the vinyl seats and the vinyl seats and just everything Birds every every number of things um I have spoken with a couple of different manufacturers over the course of my time here um there's a company out of Hudson um that builds uh a very attractive aluminum structure that meets hurricane rating for the structure um and they attach the canvas on it or the Sunbrella on it using a breakaway system so they use a they use a tether so that if you when you get to a certain wind speed the can the canvas comes off um some places I've seen them done so that one side of them stays attached so there's more of a permanent attachment on one side of it so that the other side everything else breaks away so that it opens up and it Flags you're probably going to shred it but at least then it's not in the Neighbor's Pool you know six houses down um so it's a way to keep it intact um I understand why the provision probably was put in originally because we do have a whole bunch of A-frame things that are built and obnoxious and they block View and they're really they're ugly but if you've got a 40ft boat on a lift it's blocking the view it's a big and it's above waterline um I would like to see something go in like these aluminum structures um you know maybe we limit the profile height so that visually you're you're not breaking that view more than whatever the the bow of that canopy is um you know you're not skirting it in in some fashion um but I definitely as as a resident living on the water that has boats that are getting trashed by the sun I would love to be able to put a cover in um and I think they are attractive you go through Coastal communities that have that allow for it but they have code in there for it like madira Treasure Island those places they all have they all have that same boat now I I just went through hurricane Ian down there and I can tell you that they don't survive Category 5 hurricanes um it's going to be a good day for the Scrapper after a category 5 hurricane because that they're going to shred they're just the nature of it those things eat everything but within the purview of what we can build um they can be built to withstand what current building code wants for an outdoor structure we already have a provision I think for gazebos right in our in our like I think for for out building style things they have to be anchored they have to be for accessory structure for accessory structures so I don't know why it couldn't be even added to that provision you know even maybe Struck from this one and added to that one as part of an accessory structure on the water and it's not like it's something that you wouldn't see in a waterfront Community it's nothing that somebody would drve Minds that looks out of place no and like I said there's there's a way to write it into the code for there's a way we can write it into the code so that we end up with something that beautifies the city and protects personal property I mean that's the whole point behind this board right is to come up with a way to do that in a way that is enforceable by him without him getting run off the property by homeowners because we've given him an unrealistic code to manage so yeah and I can I can look through some of the ones I'm on a lot of different M stuff for the flood stuff but I would say any of those Coastal communities running down the inter Coastal um those are going to be the communities that might have code verbage in there that limits it because like madira is super strict on what you can build there but they do have them so I have to assume that they have some pretty good verbiage in there so that's something you can look into further come back just so I know when I'm looking I'm using the word awning I'm using boat covering is there another term that anyone thinks that they may be using and that's why I'm not finding what we I'm looking for boat lift cover yeah awning you could look for any of those um Boat Boat cover fixed boat cover um is what most of them seem to be referencing nautical garage is what Marco Island uses that's let's Marco out it might really be a yeah that's a little fancy they're pretty low can canopy boat canopy might be a good term that I'm seeing some of that too but like this particular set from this one company from Coastal Breeze is 180 mph wind code because they're building them for hbhc they're building them for Miami so I mean they can be built to do the job and can be pretty well I can definitely look with these new terms maybe I'll have better luck looking um find so you're looking for M you're looking for materials you're looking for um just the whole aesthetic of it um also safety [Music] ratings I'll see what I can find and we will continue to discuss that um and aren't we strictly talking about this over over like Boat Lifts or over docks or I think we have to be careful of what we allow end up somebody building an entire apartment complex on top of their dock um under cover houses do we have a provision right now for shade sales I might have to look like I don't off top of my head recall because I think a lot of communities over the boat house over the boat they'll do covers like this because they're fixed and they have to maintain a shape um and you can't pull in on dock piles at the top of a lift with a Shade Sail Without creating a problem and you need that height um but over docks I think shade sales is how a lot of communities are covering it is they'll allow shade sales because they're temporary they're cable driven my point is we're talking specifically boatless or ducks the company that I spoke with is Coastline Bo covers Coastline Hudson yeah Coastline and Hudson um and the guy who owns that um probably could hand you 30 different ordinances that he's he's had to either fight against or work with very good place to start right so I will look into that and bring it back to you um anything we can jump into sea walls if there's anything else that you guys wanted to address other I brought up the the percentage yes so what percentage so in speaking with Mr Alexander there's some Provisions he's working on to possibly change the um the substantial Dam damage and substantial Improvement limit to 49% instead of 50 instead of 5050 that so it's FEMA's weird um is that a FEMA thing 49 no 50 50 is FEMA but we can make it more stringent but they get FEMA likes it so we get a better CRS rating the more stringent we get on anything that deals with flood so in the city so 1% makes a difference it does and it'll lower it'll lower what the city pays for its its flood insurance policy it'll lower what all of the residents pay for their flood insurance policies anytime anything we can do that enhances enhances the flood capacity uh and lowers the risk to the community um every home we Elevate every time he anytime we put an ordinance in that makes it harder to violate FL to building code and FEMA rules our CRS rating gets better so it can be it can be no lower than Fe but it can be am I saying that correct correct but it can yeah High same thing with Florida St Florida right it can't be L it can be more which makes a difference in our ratings which makes a difference for the city which makes a difference for everybody right because everybody in the town that's buying flood insurance um and even the folks that aren't right so for the residents that are concerned about why we're putting things in that don't affect them if they say they don't pay for flood insurance the city pays for flood insurance for disaster recovery so it's part of their tax bill it's part of their tax base so whether they're on the water or not so indirectly it affects them anyway correct you know it all come it all comes back to how much we have to pay for the federal government to help us when when they have to roll in here after a storm I'm sorry did I interrupt you that's okay um why stop at 1% because it's a delicate balance we're we're walking a tight rope [Music] um when someone so we get a flood like we had um the substantial damage Clause that's in there right now says that if you're going to do more repair work than 50% of the value of the structure then you have to bring the entire structure up to code that's FEMA's hard rule we can make it a little more to get a little better rating but if say we jumped to 40% because yeah hey we get a much better rating well now you get someone who just got flooded they have inadequate flood insurance and we hit their 40% threshold much sooner now you're telling the lot he's telling a lot more residents they can't rebuild their homes U they can't have permits to put their stuff back together so it's a it's a balancing act of trying to make FEMA happy so that we get better ratings for the city overall and make it something he can enforce and not displac residents because FEMA went to the 50% after the 93 stor correct that we have drafted U Veronica and myself and Florida Department of Emergency Man is taking it from 50 to 40 right now but it hasn't gone in front of anybody yet so but that's a starting point it can go to 45 it can go to 49 whatever whatever collectively the city wants to do so and right now we're at 50% per year so if you have a $200,000 building you you can do $100,000 worth of work every year to that building and still stay below the threshold of having to come up out of the special flood Hazard so we're looking at that part of it as dropping to the 40% we're also looking at raising the amount of free board from the one foot that we have now so you have a base flood elevation say it's nine we have you have to put another foot on top of that so your your living first floor living area be at 10 feet we're going to add another one to it and make it 11 that goes toward our CRS as well we're also looking at changing from the one year for substantial damage substantial Improvement taking out the five years so cumulative within that five years if you reach that 100,000 threshold of a 200,000 structure for above then you have to take it out special flood has well you're talking about on the elevation rate you're talking about if they have damage then you're asking for if you're in a whether you have damage or not if you if you're in a special flood Hazard area which 90% of the city is whether you have damage or not if your if your house Lis say is 200,000 and you want to do a remodel of your property all that remodel that goes in there for for that is included into that that cumulative number so if you want to do $50,000 this this month six months later want to do $60,000 upgrade you've now exceeded that threshold whether you got substantial damage or not because it's a substantial Improvement and you're inside a flood plane the the idea is to bring the city to compliance and get everybody out of repetitive loss get out of all the the FEMA um basically the government funding all the disasters and Mr forz can tell you and Veron and I just got back from the flood plane manager's conference up in dtin FEMA is actually going around now in auditing cities so they're going to be a lot more tighter dishing out the money so the more we do as a city to bring our city into thema compliance the better for our citizens and the thing think about too so there's two different numbers there you've got substantial damage which is something happens we have an event and then you have substantial Improvement so another option is to all is to shift the numbers to make it so that maybe it's 40% on substantial Improvement if you're trying to add on to your house and you're in a flood zone we don't as a city we really don't want people to add a add another 10 you know 2,000 square ft onto a piece of property that's below the flood zone because that's just more property that's going to be damaged if we get wet um so you could lower that threshold and make it 40% on substantial Improvement and then you could keep it up at 49% for substantial damage so you're you're saying look when if you get if you get hurt we're trying to work with you to make sure you can put your house back together but the idea the problem with it is is that and you can thank Louisiana for the reason that FEMA is so strict about this is that year after year after year after year they pay out right to that threshold you get a contractor to come in and say you know you look at your tax record and you go okay I can do up to $103,000 worth of work and the contractor swings the pendulum to $102,000 on the contract and you get your insurance thing and you put your house back together and then it gets wet the next year again and we're doing it again and we're doing it again over and over again yeah okay and FEMA's tired of paying out for all those things um some changes that happened to the FEMA code this year are that nobody's really paying any attention to is that if you if you're if you have fee of flood insurance and you take if you've had three losses and the total of those losses exceed that 50% value of the structure they will tell you you are not getting Insurance again the nfip is no longer the insurer of Last Resort they do not have to cover you anymore after three after if if the property has taken three D three hit three three claims over it no matter what the claim amount is no matter what it is if if the total makes it to that 50% of of the value because at that point they feel like they've paid for the house they're not they're not giving you Insurance again until you bring it to into code which is not just elevation right it's elevation and windows and electrical and hbac and all these pieces and if we spread this out over a bunch of years you could be well within your limit and then we get a storm and if you've worked right to your limit and then we get a storm you can't repair anything without bringing it into code so I mean these are going to keep getting more and more strict they they're going to continue to tighten the Noose on how much how much money they're willing to give to the communities that aren't bringing things into compliance um you know some places like Mader Beach Mader Beach is in order to get their CRS rating where it needed to be because of the age of their houses they're at four feet of freeboard over the B base flood so it's these rules are going to continue to get more strict we're going to have this conversation every time there's an event so even though this kind of sounds like we got off topic and what we were talking about initially which was the seaw walls and the 50% it has everything to do with the seaw walls too because if the seawalls aren't correct it's it's going to affect all of it right and this what you're looking at in this code it's not adding the word seaw walls but it's talking about all those different structures which would obviously be affected should there be a a water ball right they could be affected should there be a water event so um we can change that 50 to a 49 that that number can be whatever you collectively want it to be moving forward um to council um obviously it was 75 bringing 50 was bringing it into some compliance with what we were going to be doing and I know some things have changed and there's going to be I think a workshop in the future about all this stuff that Mike was talking about that includes the 4 right because he said they're actually considering to 40 so um we can I don't think leaving at 75% is a good choice we can leave it at 50 for now we could go to 49 for now I would defer to him on what he thinks that it might be the most reasonable place to start and again if this if this passes and the other um Provisions that Mike is going to be bringing forth take a while you can always go back and fix this one if you have to ideally you don't want to have to do that but you can you're not foreclosed from saying well you already did 49 you can't go back and change it to 45 um because you don't you know NE necessarily want this to to stall while that other conversation's happening um but that it can't it's again that's just how you guys want to move forward with it any questions you don't have any any expectation of where that's going to land because right now we're just you're still spitballing on that yeah yeah right now just because we haven't taken it to to pnz or anything um I know we were gonna have a discuss we had a discussion with city manager about it and it's it's probably going to end up being a workshop and everything to go through so like I said we we we went as as we could knowing it's not going to go to 40% because we're not going to get to buy in from the entire city and and I get that I understand that I'm not trying to you know move everybody out of their home but I am trying to get the city up to its compliance it needs to be so by between planning and zoning and and the council it may end up at 45 it may end up at 48 49 worst case scenario stays at 50 and we just changed the the timeline from one year to two three four five years whatever okay is there a variability in the CRS rating bump that we get dependent on how much we swing that it it did right now we're at a seven for the city but we're only two we're 200 points from dropping to a six and by raising raising the free board and change and implementing this ordinance we we have the potential of dropping to a five almost a four so that and each percentage you drop is 5% off off of your flood insurance so the potential is there to drop two classes and the further along down because we don't do another search for what two more two more years three years when we do our next we just we do an then every five years the city clerk just bued me so if you're going to speak you need to go to a microphone ma'am there's no talking from the back of the room sorry so CRS is it's it's a workshop in itself there's different classes there's different there's seven to nine different topics that have to be covered in order for CRS points to come down what Mike is referring to and and what uh Mike is referring to is the the codes for FEMA to make it more stringent the substantial Improvement and damage um that is a part of the CRS so but right now yes we're about 210 points away from a class six which is better which is better than what we have so that gives the residents an extra 5% on their flood insurance however there's some different criterias that have to be met in order for us to drop to a class five and keep going the more stringent policies and ordinances that we have in place helps the ratings come down it gives us points so it doesn't necessarily say just by doing this we're GNA drop it's it's a series of points that help us to get to that point but yes that helps immensely because if we have the ordinances to back us up then we can continue it but ultimately our goal is we've worked on these ordinances for the past couple of months with Florida Department of Emergency Management with the they have uh given us the verbiage they have assisted Us in in writing these codes they're ready to go to the city manager so that we can bring It Forward um so it is something we have been working on in the last couple months but so the certification for five years when was the last one so we get we had our recertification in 2021 and then now we go five years because we're a class seven the minute we drop a class it cuts our certification down but currently we're at every five years they come and they do a walk through with us and if you do things in the meantime it doesn't drop regardless you have if if things are done in that fiveyear period nothing changes if nothing changes then until the fiveyear re until the recertification comes up so we can submit a recertification we're waiting for some other can you get a hold of them say 12 months we've done all these things yep so every 12 months FEMA allows you to recertify if you have the the documents and the activity points that you need so every 12 months we can try to lower our class but even though that we doing these things they have to be we can't just say hey this is what we're doing it has to be stuff that's already implemented so once it's already implemented and we can show a tracking on it that all goes into it and like Ryan said we're 210 points away just by the free board's going to drop us down because it's going to give us those extra points also with the gis that we're doing now because we have we have GIS coming up for all of the maps of all the city of the entire city and that's going to be a big chunk of of points for our CRS as well so there's a lot like bran said there's I think probably 30 categories under the g g Maps no under the whole CRS plan and each category Falls up under we we Veronica's got us uh partnering with Pasco County and we're doing a I'm going to mess this up the PIP not pip uh PPI the PPI and it it's in conjunction with we're doing a multi-jurisdictional activity with Newport Richie and Pasco County that gains us extra points with our CRS rating as well that there's just a several but it's easier if we just do a workshop to explain what the CRS means what it entails what the activities are because if I just shoot things out you're you're not going to understand what I'm saying what you're saying it's a it's a process because it's ultimately there more than one thing you can't just change one thing and boom it all comes down to your CRS score and your flood insurance That's What It ultimately how it affects the residents that that's what it comes to but it's it's a series of activities that have to be done and met I I would say we leave it how you've Rewritten it now at 5050 to get it to match what we're at right now in the city we can always revamp that number when they revamp their number and the workshop I think will look at all the other things you've already done and see how many points we can get by dropping those percentages Citywide and see what it would take to get to the next one because that's going to be the sell to the citizens it's going to be [Music] hey if we lower this yes it lowers your threshold to having to do Full Repair but we can and that's going to happen once every who knows how often if we have a storm and this is an if we get there we can get you a discount on your insurance every single year right until that I think to me that seems like the variable that thing seems like the variability that lets us buy the the next tier of points if we're close if we leave it at 50 now and see where all the other changes you're making are going to change then we can see if there's a way to bump it one more by changing those percentage be my thought that all right so we'll leave leave it at 50% for now and I was actually G to put Mike on the spot again and asked that that my thought was I know this was changed to 50 to comply with some other things that are 50 but there's probably even more than one location where it's a 50% so at some point if that this Workshop comes forward it's decided to go down to 49 there's going to be a revamp of we'll we'll capture all the all the numbers that need to change at the same time so getting this consistent what we already have is I think a good starting point um right so then let's next um section with some changes is 10- 280 unsafe structures you want to look just go Section by section and see if anyone has any questions or comments yes [Music] were the were the um was the time frame not in there before you added it it was not days 30 yeah the underlines the new time so the 30 and the 90 are new I think 15 which is pretty quick to have anyone do 3090 may still be too quick to have people do something but do we need to outline what demonstrate progress is yes because how many people call you and go I'm working on it close enough right that's I demonstrated progress to an extent yeah I'm just wondering if if we make his job easier if we outline what de a minimum demonstrate progress is we can't I've got some other I I could do internal policies okay so what I was planning on doing is because right now you have if you get a permit to to redo it you have six months before it expires I can put a policy in place through through the development services saying that their work must commence within 30 days so or 90 days or 60 days something like that and that way they're not just hanging out there for five and a half months before somebody holding the permit is St one so do we want to add maybe a language that they um shall have 30 days from the date of notice to Dem she have 30 days from the date of notice to demonstrate progress per building officials guidelines guidelines or something like that so it takes us somewhere and your guidelines could be something like they have a contractor scheduled or I mean whatever you come up with yeah we caness then he can dictate that separate from code that way building has a little more control over that because as as our you know post post storm getting a contractor may take six months right to get somebody lined up to do something so that'll give him the ability without us having to change the code that'll give him some flexibility to make what progress means right within his division and then the change from what notification from 48 hours to 30 days section B it should be three to five business days and here St Mike um have you ever seen um a an unsafe dangerous rotting your der condition that was not um connected with a hurricane do people know do does this stuff happen overnight or does it happen over a length of time that they that the property owner should know what's going on yes it yes and no both some some could be from storm damage some could be from FL of homeowner maintenance Okay the reason why I I threw that in there is we we had a situation behind the old uh well scile now used to be Seaside where they parked those boat I wasn't out there PD was out on the boat and actually caught it and the whole dock was just laying in the water so I gave the property owner the 48 hours but it took him longer than 48 hours to get a contractor to come out there who had the equipment to get out on the water to go out there and actually pull it up and that's that's where I was goingon to go so that's why we kind of opened it up a little bit because I mean technically 48 hours 48 hours I mean I could have excited him for it and we could have went in after it but so that's why we opened it up so and and this is what I'm saying if like in section A if they make a good faith effort that they can show you that they have contact to someone and that they're actually going to get this work started I don't see why we can't have language in there to say showing good faith effort we're doing it but to drag this out 30 days after they get certified mail that's 30 days after they get certified mail certified mail may take up to two or 3 weeks depending on how long you take to get your reports and stuff done and so now the neighbors are looking at and I'm just saying not hurricane damage the blighted rotting you know D conditions for another six eight months and and I think that you guys can change it however you want and however you feel fits the city out en force it yeah I I think it's different things I think the this particular provision B um I think D since it's directly dealing with hazards to navigation um I think needs to be a very short needs to be a very short process before the city steps in and deals with it because it's a hazard to navigation um regardless of whether it's a hazard of navigation to recreational voters but if you had a scenario where the police boat the fireboat needs to get down a canal and something's in the way now it's a public safety issue so I I can see why you would have had it at 48 hours before because it's a hazards navigation it's not the same thing as it's falling down and you're telling him he needs to repair now it's falling down and it's Le laying in the canal and it's in the way of people getting in and out and moving around and doing things so I don't know that I I don't know that I would have changed it away from 48 hours we don't have to that's why we're here just purely because it because it's something that's happened that's gone from deri if it's not a event a storm event it's gone from didn't maintain it to its fall it fell off and it's in the way um and now it's something that we that they either need to get it out of the water or we do yeah in in in as quick period of time as possible so let me ask you just just logistically and realistically like you said the situation you had they physically could not contract with the right entity to come out I mean we don't want someone jumping in the back behind their house and trying to lift this stuff out you on their own to get it out of the way obviously we want them to do it in a safe manner if we we know there's a time frame involved with that that may be more than 48 hours even leave it at 48 hours but put some some kind of qualifying language like we did in subsection a yeah that basically as long as you're communicating with you for your internal policies or your internal internal guidelines um they're on the right track so maybe move it back to 48 hours but then use the verbiage from the one above it uh 48 hours from date of notice to demonstrate progress toward and the other the other key is where it you know that's unsafe and dangerous right which which are different than rotting or dling right that that those are all in one sentence which it's not all the same do you want to tease that out then well I think it is I think it's covered purely because it's it because something can be something could be something could be to navigation that's not D currently dangerous to people right let's say one of the canals it's back clear back in the canal no boats really go back there but needs fixed it's it's you know it's rotting it's derck it's whatever that's different than like he said something at Seaside or where the police or fireboats can't get out right those are kind of the same but not really the same thing yeah I so so what I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to address more a um an immediate issue as opposed to somebody who lives on a side canal who's doc boards are and that's what A and B are trying to do in my opinion a trying to address the more serious but there's not immediate Hazard he's trying to say we got a serious issue here I think I think rotting and derelict is still is still an immediate problem if it's a hazard navigation whether it's an unsafe condition or not it's well I think b b captures what you're trying to say and pretty much what I had at C now and then what you're trying to say about others that may not B to that point that covers a a is under that okay so I think if we just fix the notification time I and leave everything out I think you're okay yeah I think 48 hours from date of notice um to demonstrate progress toward addressing the cited concern um and 90 you know and you know and then if you want to give them and then if you want to set a time frame to complete the repairs or you could leave that on per under his purview um if you want to and just just have it simply State repair removed within 48 Hours um from the date of notice or or demonstrate progress toward addressing the concern for his guidelines for building official building and zoning guidelines does anyone in the audience have anything to say da Mueller 5439 bluepoint drive it seems to me that if you're going to have kind of some kind of damage like that and you're going to have to deal with it you're probably going to have to go through the building department and get a permit anyway am I right d you talking about a or b um really it would apply to either one you're going to need a building permit uh the building permit specifies the length of time required to complete the task so once that is in Q it's automatically going to have progress toward that end and and are we you know trying to refine this thing to to to extent this this is more on the initials code enforcement side okay the code goes out see something I go out something we see a code violation the permit's the secondary part of it um if it's something like the one at Seaside was just laying down in the water and I think it was one of the shrimping boats back then to it crushed it basically I agree so that that's where it was in the code and and the property owner just had trouble getting to it because nobody could get their boats out there he couldn't get anybody in the amount of time we work together and got it worked out but yes the secondary part of that is they would have to come in and pull a permit and get it started it's just I don't want it to sit there and I know the residents don't want want it I know you guys don't want phone calls and I don't want phone calls neither does Matt of how long it's taking for all this stuff to get done I know we have one of those I'm looking at it now I know okay um sub subsection C of that is just Boyer language just it just puts it writing something that we already have the ability to do that we the city can initiate a lawsuit if we need to to en join somebody from their failure to do what they were doing yes just put it in writing let them know um the next section just added seaw walls 10 section 10- 281 so I don't know if anyone has any issues with that one no um section 10 313 pretty much again that's just adding seaw wall to the list of other water structures section 10 314 had the wrong word um we just Chang it from occup occupancy to completion then not until 10336 do we have some more changes which is the same thing adding seaw wall and changing it from certic certif can we go back to 333 um it was brought up maybe about a year and a half ago that our code for um building into a canal was in conflict with the state code anybody ever looking at no one no so we'll look at that so 10333 right yeah I think ours is 30% and the state's 25% okay do you know that Mike by chance no oh sorry number guy keep that number I think I'll St the head it's the width of the canal half the distance and you have to be 10 foot off the half mark is where ours is at and then once you get into the wider waterways it changes I think it's 30% some is it that where El 30% okay and I we don't do a lot of those so I really don't know which one it is that you're talking about but we can look into it no I mean it's one I noted that we'll look that make sure that's consistent right then um okay then the big one page eight of your packet division four is added seaw walls all that underlying it's all new um this was a collaboration of um various code Provisions from a couple of cities um that are on each sides that have have similar issues as you do hear with your seat W and Mike looked through them and kind of tried to make the best he could that would fit this community of those suggestions plus some other ideas of his own um and so this is where some of the specific questions were Mike that I didn't even try to answer something about the green gray and there was some other word that they um asked about that I didn't even know what it was let me see if I can find that know I don't even know what those are so this is the section there's your guy it's basically Rock instead of a seaw wall you'll have a a geow webbing barrier down and rock on top of it and it's just keep from getting title flood erion but instead of a seaw wall or you can do a living Seashore things like that it's it's in lie of a seaw wall basically and you read through all the new and keep he read and wrote he did a l okay then then you agree I'm just I just put it all in one form did all the hard work a lot of this was put in for for the purpose of you know behind Mr Mueller is that seaw wall has been laying back there since I've been here almost two years now so um it's an out ofate own owner does not respond to us at anything at all that we do so by putting Provisions in there it it is now a in my opinion it's a hazard to the waterways so without him being there it now allows the city to come in there pull it out because I can go in there through CRA and summon BL and tear it out but there's nothing in there saying what I have what I can put it back so the rest of the yard don't sit there and keep filling up the rest of behind house so that's why that's why a lot of these Provisions in this section isn't because now if if I have a a property owner who is non-responsive the city can now and we can go back and put it in there we can lean the property and then eventually we have toose the property it's to get it back to get more compliance as all so I know we've got I know there's building code provision versus concrete all those things is there anything in the Florida building code when it comes to livings living seaw wall as to what they have what is it at your discretion as to what they have to put in I would reach out I'm working with our city planner because uh Safety Harbor has been doing a lot of it and we're trying to incorporate that into the city now it's just an option it's not the option that we go with but it is it just depends on you know how it's going to come to council however they want to go and put it back because I'm not going to go because even if I put a seaw wall up it's GNA be 50 to 80 grand and I'm sure they that check does it depend on the actual canal and the property itself too I would think it depending what's there if we have if we have a seaw wall that drops off next to a whole group of man Groves I'm not going to go drop another one back in here if we can put in a living you know a living SE wall there why not do so it's dependent on the property and other factors yeah it's G to be subjetive it's just you know how much we're going to put into it what's the surrounding area like you know not behind Mr Mueller's house if it comes to that point then yeah we're going to go back with another seaw wall because everybody else down there's got seaw walls and if you don't put one back if you got one living wall and everybody else has got a seaw wall and you don't have proper barrier on that living wall then you get and you get we get a tremendous amount of brain or a lot of tidle movement it washes that water comes into that space around the other seaw walls and washes dirt back out through that and takes the neighbors with it so that's why I was asking because like down south right now where they're after the storm came through and it washed all the bridges out where they just had Rock piled up they went back with sheet piles and they drove sheet PLS and then they drum the rock over top of it but at least they have something that's a water barrier to prevent sand from being drug out through the rock um I don't think it's something we need to tackle in this particular code but probably something that you and your division could come up with a through the council hey let's put together what we think is an acceptable living living seaw wall opportunity just so that we great you want concrete you want Rock and you want pretty that's fine but you need to have at least this minimum for your neighbors got to have at least this because you're even if you pile Rock up you're going to pile Rock up on these properties and try to get to 5 foot the minimum 5 foot nabd and the first set of big storms it's all going to settle back down and the sand and everything's going to wash it back out again and it's all going to be in the canal if we don't have any kind of tieback or anything in it so yeah I definitely I like the way you have this written I definitely think now you now you get to draft some interesting stuff in your on your end on how to how to make it [Music] work I can take some pictures when I'm down sh you what they did at Santa belt that Pier that bridge at Santa belt was crazy how they how they put all that back together to stop it from Just continuing the canals to keep continuing wash Bridge it won't go anywhere now they drove those things [Music] 35t now we're two and 10 three 398 yeah pretty much it 10338 1033 10337 came 10338 which just adding seaw wall um Mike did increase the class um that has to do with fine how much M can be assessed be increase that I don't the financial connection was to class three versus class six but it's [Music] more um again series want take care in inste of fix it yeah so um and that's it and then the section two three and four and five just bunch of lawyer talk um the the Crux of what you need to look at is the the sections we just went over um to give us Direction I can add the information we talked about rework some of the things look at some of the stuff you talked about um and you're going to see it again hopefully when I do that I will also have found something on boat awnings or you and I will go out and I don't know we'll go on and filate I don't know we'll figure it out so we can get you guys some language to figure out what you want to do with v coveries I think the guy Hudson he'll be a really good resource for that because I know he had dealt with it in a lot of places and he's putting they're all over Huds Pasco County probably just doesn't have any verbiage that says you can't put them up so they can put them up they're getting getting them passed I'm sure we can find something that refines it a little more for a motion uh Mo motion to adjourn second all in favor I