##VIDEO ID:Rv3PbiqcuC4## is a regular this is a regular meeting of the Princeton planning board on June 9 2025 um Carrie can you read the statement the the opening statement pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the time and place of this meeting has been given by prominently posting the resolution of regularly scheduled meetings of the planning board of Princeton for February 2024 through January 2025 a copy was filed with the clerk of Princeton on January 8th 2024 legal notice on the adoption of said resolution was published in the January 12 2024 edition of the princeon packet notice of this meeting has also been posted to the municipal website www.princeton nj.gov calendar notice that all regular and special meetings of this regular of the Princeton Regional plan Princeton planning board will be held electronically via Zoom was transmitted to the Princeton packet and the times and was filed with the clerk of Princeton on Tuesday January 17 2023 please note this meeting is being recorded during hearings on applications for development members of the public will have an opportunity to comment and ask questions questions may be asked after an applicant's Witnesses have testified public comment is heard by the board after an applicant's Representatives have finished their presentations and have been questioned by the planning board members and staff those wishing to comment orally should V virtually raise your hand by clicking on the reactions or rais hand icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen or participating by phone by pressing star n oral comments will be taken in the order in which hands were raised we ask with respect that members of the public express your views in 3 minutes or less we will have a countdown clock to help speakers keep track of time please note that the speakers who exceed 3 minutes will be interrupted inappropriate public comment containing obscenity hate speech or relating to matters not before the the board we'll be muted thank thank you Carrie please take the role Mr bodimer Miss capoli mayor Freda here Mr mwan here miss Nuka here Mr odonnell miss pearlmutter here Mr Taylor here Miss Wilson Anderson Miss Wilson Anderson Claudia was here uh just a couple of minutes ago she might have gotten cut off or something okay and uh Mrs Wilson here uh we have Quorum okay the first order of business and I'm going to be conducting the hearing until we select a um a chair which is assume will happen shortly um but the first step will be um to swear in the members of the board that need to be sworn in that are new members or it's a new um time period for them a new appointment um are there any members of the board uh Carrie that that they're continuing they don't need to be sworn in uh the only yes um present this evening uh Mr Taylor is the only one and Miss Pearl mut okay good so they do not have to be sworn in for everybody else have have any of you been sworn in outside this meeting maybe at the clerk's office or I thought I was sworn in until my term on the environmental commission ends which is another year but I'm perfectly happy to be sworn in again if I need to be yeah I don't know if that's the case with respect to the environmental commission but um I just don't know um but why don't we sway in again if yeah that's fine problem okay um what we're going to do then everybody has to be sworn in and um you've all now gotten a printed out copy of the oath of office you know big big letters um I think we'll start with the mayor um and Mark if you could raise your right hand if you could read that um and when you get the Princeton planning board toward the very end I will that would be class one member okay um go ahead okay I Mark Frida sincerely profess and swear that I do and will bear true Allegiance faith and allegiance to the government established in this state under the authority of the people I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States of America and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will Faithfully sorry I got to scroll down that I will Faithfully impart impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of Princeton planning board um I'm sorry would say 1A a class class one member class one sorry class one member according to the best of my ability and understanding so swor and congratulations thank youcome then next why don't we um Louise you have to be sworn in awesome I do yep okay why don't we do you next if you could raise your right hand and if you could read that and again it's good as you know to you be a class for member right I Louise Wilson sincerely profess and swear that I do and will bear true faith and allegiance to the government established in this state under the authority of the people I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States of America and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of class 4 member of Princeton planning board according to the best of my ability and understanding so sworn in congratulations if congratulations are in order um next um who would be next uh I guess we could do um Alvin okay if you could raise your right hand and again you as you know you're a class form member I sincerely profess and swear that I do and will bear truth faith and allegiance to the government established in this state under the authority of the people I do somly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States of America and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of a class 4 member of the Princeton planning planning board according to the best of my ability and understanding so sworn in congratulations um and Jerry I think the only other member that needs it is Claudia Wilson Anderson who is having some issues with their computer but it looks like she just got back in at the perfect time so so Freddy still has a a year left on her term uh yes till uh 2026 end of 2026 okay that's what I thought okay good is Claudia here she is here and have you gotten a copy of the um the oath of office yes I do okay if you could read it and when you get the princ and planning board if you raise your right hand and read it and when you get the prince and planning board toward the very end that would be Princeton planning board class 4 member you raise all right uh if you could raise your right hand yeah go ahead I Claudia Wilson Anderson sincerely profess and swear that I do and will bear the TR true faith and allegiance to the government established in this state under the authority of the people I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States of America and the con stitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of Princeton planning board class 4 yes according to the best of my ability and understanding so swor and congratulations so the next the next step will be um or re organiz reorganization of the board and if I could hear any nominations for the chair um as I guess the chairman of the the uh the committee uh I would on behalf of the committee I would nominate Lise Wilson as chair and Owen odonnell as Vice chair okay and I think we could do both at the same time um do I hear any seconds for that yeah I second the motion okay any other nominations okay if we could have a vote um Carrie if you could take the vote certainly mayor Frida hi Mr mcgallen hi Miss Nuka hi Miss Pearl mutter hi Mr Taylor hi Miss Wilson Anderson I think Miss Wilson Anderson hi Mrs Wilson hi motion carried congratulations and I'm figuratively hand the gav over to you thank you I I really um I appreciate um this very much I I enjoy this work and I'm grateful for the confidence that the board has in me and I know that Owen feels the same way he um can't be with us tonight because of a very sad death in his family and um but he'll be back uh at the next meeting I believe and uh um it'll be good to see him so um and also welcome to all of the um returning members and our new member Mr Mr Freda mayor Freda um so next up we have um several appointments to make um as further business in reorganization they include first the appointment of the planning board attorney um we have a resolution that was included as a link in uh one of the um excuse me I'm finding it on a different tab um one of the um notices uh that Carrie sent out um about this meeting so the the resolution um uh states that we would um reappoint um uh uh Mueller and Bailey PC is that yes PC um and also States the uh the rates um hourly rates that we pay and so I will ask if there is a motion to approve that resolution so moved second and a second second thank you Jack um uh call the role please Carrie mayor Frida hi Mr mcgallen hi Miss Nuka hi Miss Pearl mutter hi Mr Taylor hi Miss Wilson Anderson hi Mrs Wilson I motion carried and thank you for your confidence thank you Jerry um next up we have appointment of special counsel this is um uh the our attorney that steps in when um Jerry and his firm have a conflict um uh the resolution shows maraziti Falcon as special counsel Joe maraziti is our uh has been our Redevelopment attorney and um we think it makes sense to um to appoint uh that irm to this role as well um is there a motion to do so so move thanks Freddy and a second second um I Heard Alvin and I saw Claudius Alvin since you spoke the words I will go with your second um call the rooll please Carrie mayor Freda hi Mr mcowan hi Miss Nuka I Miss Pearl mutter hi Mr Taylor hi Miss Wilson Anderson hi Mrs Wilson I motion carried um the next appointment is Redevelopment Council um the resolution is to reappoint maraziti Falcon as Redevelopment Council um with Joe maraziti being our um attorney in these matters is there a motion to do so so moved again thank you Freddy and a second second thank you Jack um call the role please Carrie mayor Frida hi Mr McGowan hi Miss Nuka hi Miss pearlmutter hi Mr Taylor hi Miss Wilson Anderson hi Mrs Wilson hi motion carried um next up we have um appointment of planning board secretary Ms Carrie Phillip um do I see a motion may I nominate grie Phillip please oh just jumped in to do that uh moved by Jack Taylor seconded by Paula vuka uh call the rooll please Carrie thank you Miss mayor Freda hi Mr mcgallen hi Miss Nuka hi Miss pearlmutter hi Mr Taylor I miss Wilson Anderson hi and Mrs Wilson I motion carried um so item six here is resolutions for special meetings and for our 2025 calendar so I think we should um I guess take those separately uh the special meeting resolution um just describes the notice that's required um and authorizes the secretary to to make those notices when the board calls a special meeting um so it's a very proor a bit of business but would someone like to move the special meetings resolution so moved thank you Alvin is there a second second thank you pvy um call the RO please Carrie mayor Freda hi Mr Macwan hi Miss Nuka hi Miss pearlmutter hi Mr Taylor I miss Wilson Anderson I Mrs Wilson I motion carried uh and lastly we have um excuse me um our 2 2 calendar meaning February 2025 next month through um January of 2026 um hope everybody's had a chance to look at that if you've got conflicts and need to miss meetings of course that's happens now and then just let Carrie know as soon as possible would somebody like to move the meetings uh calendar so moved thank you Jack is there a second second thank you Claudia call the role please Carrie mayor Freda hi Mr McAllen hi Miss Nuka I miss pearlmutter I Mr Taylor I Wilson Anderson I Mrs Wilson motion carried thank you um announcements are there any any announcements tonight from staff or from board members okay uh I don't think we have any subcommittee reports is that correct good then moving on to resolutions and findings of fact we have first up the institute for advanced study this was a preliminary and final site plan with variances at number one Einstein Lane uh SL Olden Lane this is file number P 24244 67 P um I just want to quickly say and this is really uh for the benefit of mar Frida if you were not at a meeting or aren't qualified to vote um for whatever reason Harry already knows that so we generally don't ask that people abstain it's just I don't know the way we've done business so I mean I think I have that right is that right Carrie you're muted that's correct okay all right I mean they're not in a position to abstain because they can't participate right okay but even when if somebody is recused or otherwise or wasn't there yeah there there's no need to AB abstain okay uh so we have this resolution um for The Institute um I read it out in the including the file number are there any questions or uh suggestions related to this resolution and if not would someone like to move it I'll move it thank you Mr Macwan is there a second I'll second Miss Nuka um Carrie call the role please thank you Mr McOwen yeah yes Miss Nuka yes Miss pearlmutter yes Mr Taylor yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried um our next resolution is for the trustees of Princeton University this was a minor site plan with variance um eisenhart Arch relocation at College Road and Springdale Road this block 11301 Lo 11 and it's file number P2 2424 d529 PM any questions suggestions comments on this and if not would someone like to move it so moved thank you Mr Taylor is there a second second thank you Miss Wilson Anderson um uh Carrie would you call the role Please Mr Goen yes Miss Pearl mutter yes Mr Taylor yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried thank you um next up we have a discussion of the master plan appendix the storm water management mitigation plan it um if the item on the agenda looks familiar it's because we already did this um but we need to do it again so I'm gonna turn things over quickly to Justin to just just um explain you know why we're back and and then Mr purcel will walk us through this hearing again certainly thank you madam or maybe it's a it's a hearing it is a hearing okay car would you like to swear me in yeah if you could raise your right hand um do swear fir the testimony about to give would be the truth yes I do so just want to affirm and uh thank you madam chair before we start proof of publication and service are in order and the board has jurisdiction MH yeah welcome back uh thank you all for being back um and good evening to members of the public in attendance as well uh so like uh the chair said uh the board reviewed essentially the same document on October 17th of last year um we've since only done some formatting changes uh but the reason that you're hearing it again is because my office we failed to know notice after the meeting uh we were supposed to send a letter to the County planning board within 30 days and maybe about 40 days after we realized that we we just missed that um uh so that is why we're here today with this next hearing um I apologize for uh you know using your time again for the same thing and I especially apologize to Mr uh Jim purcel who's here uh giving this presentation a second time um but uh this will be a hearing like it was last time um because this is uh would be adopted into the master plan as an appendix thank you Justin stuff happens don't worry about it yep welcome Mr purcel thank you madam chair and uh and planning board members and new members happy New Year and Jerry swear me in if you could you swear affirming the testimony about to give me the truth I do one um this time I actually have a short PowerPoint presentation so it's much clearer and uh if I I think I have the authority to share my screen I do so I will share my screen and explain to you uh what the storm water management mitigation plan is all about um first of all um as we know the uh ngd established storm water management rules for control of water quantity quality and groundwater recharge um subsequent to that Princeton adopted storm water management regulations to comply with those storm water management rules from njd and in fact Princeton has gone above and beyond uh the requirements of the state of New Jersey and uh made it uh uh more stringent in uh prinston to comply with water quantity quality and groundwater recharge um a mitigation plan is required to allow the planning board to Grant variances and I apologize for the word variances but that is what njde uses in their rules um as we know in land use variances are typically related to zoning regulations um so we interchangeably use the words variances waivers and exemptions uh as we go through this uh storm water mitigation plan um the mitigation plan is is required to provide guidance to applicants for mitigation project selection and also guidance to the planning board on how to authorize these waivers and exemptions uh it does not supersede the requirements for meeting water quantity water quality or groundwater recharge to the greatest extent practicable so the big point there is that it does not mitigate the need to demonstrate compliance to that greatest need so so every applicant in front of the planning board has to come in and say we've done everything practicable to meet the requirements of the stormwater ordinance we're requesting a waiver of this because it just can't be done um it requires demonstration that full compliance cannot be reasonably accommodated on the site and reasonably accommodated means um that they haven't they have to go to the extent of reducing the size of the uh development um increasing uh the size of their stormw management they have to demonstrate that they've gone to the fullest extent possible to meet the regulations um size scale layout uh they they can't just show up with a plan with an application and say sorry it doesn't work at this layout with this number of units they have to actually look at how do we how do we adjust it um a waiver cannot be granted if the project would result in a localized adverse impact or create a compliance deficit that cannot be compensated by offsite man mitigation um it does allow flexible implementation of our storm water management regulations um and it does not yet identify specific mitigation projects but it provides guidance to select appropriate ones um when we talk about the things like localized adverse impact an applicant has to come to the planning board with an assessment of what the impact is of getting that waiver so if they cannot control uh say the water quantity what is the impact to the sensitive receptors Downstream of that development so they have to do an analysis and demonstrate to the planning board that there is no adverse impact to Downstream properties um any mitigation that is done has to be within the same drainage area um we we have several drainage areas in Princeton six to be exact and uh so they can't come uh to us and say we're going to do uh first of all can't do one in lawrenville um it's got to be within Princeton but it also would have to be in the Stony Brook Watershed or the Harry Brook Watershed um it has to be as close as practicable Upstream of the development those are the njde rules um they have the responsibility to obtain the legal authorization to do the mitigation project if it's on private or Municipal property they have to get authorization from the property owner if they're going to do a mitigation project that's not on their property they have to then identify the sensitive receptors subject to the mitigation project so if they're going to do some storm water management in on another property they have to identify who what are the sensitive receptors to that property and demonstrate that there's no adverse impact on those sensitive receptors and then the mitigation plan also establishes the administrative process to go through this um and that really is the extent of the mitigation plan and I believe you have it in your packet so I don't think I need to bring up the entire plan in front of you to uh go through anything I'm happy to answer any questions and give you any clarifications you need thank you Jim very much um are there questions from board members before we invite public comment I I'm trying to come up here I can't get the the uh oh here we go get go up you're good Freddy okay thank you thank you um I have some minor they're not Corrections they're just kind of suggest but um I mean environmental people tend to talk in code and I went through this and most of it is defined but um category one Waters TSS which I assume is total suspended solids tmdl which I assume a total maximum daily loads they just mentioned the initials and if it's not too late I think it would be helpful to at least say what they are so that people who are not as familiar with this NOS either give the where it comes from or say what it is and similarly where it mentions the pool I assume that's those are projects that will be in they're not calling the bank but it sounds like a bank of some is going be set up locally um it probably come from the state regulations or something but I think it would be helpful to say what the pool is and then one other place this is actually just a correction on page seven permits uh it says obtain any something which must be obtained so obtains in there twice so you might want to just take out obtain if it's not too late take out obtain the first obtain and it's just clear what page is that on Freddy seven and it's the second Bullet From The Bottom it says obtain any all necessary blah blah blah which must be obtained so it's it's it's duplicated Justin that is one of those monor editorial uh changes that I made when I sent you the final copy that did not get into the packet it was couple days too late good but I would I would agree Justin if it's not a problem that uh either we add definitions or we put in parentheses after tmdl and TSS and anything else it's an initialism that we should probably Define it and that seems to me to be editorial uh i' just defer to Jerry on that one uh do we need to call those out specifically to do it on the record right here or would we need to carry this uh to do so I don't think we need to carry it um I think it's fine just the handling it the way it's been being handled we make that change spell out the acronyms and yeah yeah exactly soup things yeah yep thanks I can edit that on Monday um Justin when I get back okay great uh Mr Taylor yeah just a quick administrative question for you Jim given the importance of storm water management overall and the relationship of storm water management and the master plan is there anything that we can still as a planning board expect in addition to the mitigation plan under the master plan expect or require require yeah I I I think that's a legal question and the answer is no you can't require anything more but this planning board I will say over in the last four years that I've been in Princeton has been very successful in getting developers to go above and beyond the regulations to do more and and I think that um you know mo almost every developer in this town recognizes the importance of storm water management and and does what they can do um and more yeah um but I don't Jerry I don't think we have any way of requiring it no I mean the case FL makes it clear that that planning boards and reviewing applications you know have have ch boning powers and and they could engage with applicants about that so you have that and then if there are variances you know the typical land use variances that gives extra power to uh to planning boards but but that's basically it well we can and do I don't think I'm contradicting you here Jim at all but we because you mentioned to this at the outset Princeton can and does have a higher standard than D sets for storm water management in general under the storm waterer management rules and DP permits pounds to raise the bar um for for our storm water ordinance which we have done and that that's not inconsistent with what you just described right with with regard specifically to storm water mitigation planning and the granting of um waers or exemptions right right um okay any other any other questions from from board members I I do want to well even before we hear from the public thank you Jim and and the folks in your on your team and the members of the Princeton flood and storm Water Commission that have really you know put a lot of thought and work into this and it's a that's a really great um Committee of the town and uh uh not because I sit on it uh but there are you know people who bring a ton of of um expertise and also you know passion to that work so we have some very expert people on the flood and storm Water Commission that essentially wrote this um so this is great okay so um seeing no other comments from board members I will um open up the meeting to public com a public comment any members of the public who would like to address the board um about this particular item the um storm water management mitigation plan please raise your hand virtually and Carrie philli will bring you over she's doing that already for Susan Bristol from The Watershed Institute um Susan I'm I I know you know the drill you get sworn in by Mr Mueller and then uh uh letter rip Susan if you can raise your right hand do swear or affirm that testimony about to give will be the truth yeah so want to affirm please St your phone name and spell your last name yeah Susan Bristol b r i s t o and I am the municipal policy specialist at the Watershed Institute and I just wanted to jump in and say happy New Year congratulations to the new members but especially on this matter that you're discussing um how to say how much the shed appreciates partnering with all the various talents and committees and Boards in Princeton and to um praise the elements of this that are above and beyond as described earlier and uh what we would call an an enhanced um uh enhanced you know element in your in your master plan and I would just continue to encourage you to consider uh strengthening your master plan every time you update an element with with Watershed content and um we've had some interesting discussions with other towns about actually including an optional Watershed element in their Master plans for towns that might not have those things covered elsewhere so uh have a great year keep up the good work and thank you for letting me speak thank you Miss Bristol good to see you yep um any other members of the public wish to address the board on this topic not seeing any hands go up so I will close the public comment um on this hearing and um I guess uh Mr Mueller I turned to the board to invite further discussion if there is none someone might want to move uh reopt of the of this appendix to the master plan is that correct exactly so moved thank you Miss Nuka is there a second AC thank you Mr Macwan um call the role please Carrie before we do that can we add we will make changes in accordance with what we discussed before yes yes yes and thank you again for those mayor Freda yes Mr mwan yes Miss Nuka yes Miss pearlmutter yes Mr Taylor yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried thank you thank you everyone thank you uh Jim thanks Jim stay warm down there uh next up we have uh an application from RB homes Builders LLC this is a minor site plan with variance uh at 14 North Harrison Street block 34.1 lot 13 this is file number P2 2424 d521 PM Madam chair yes sir yeah if I could so on this item there was a question raised as to whether I had a conflict of interest and initial legal review said I don't but to be very prudent and to absolutely not do anything to injure this applicant I am going to recuse myself and there'll be further research into whether there actually is a conflict for future uh future items so glad to have joined everybody sorry that I'm cutting out and uh thank you um that's perfectly fine and thank you um Mr Mueller um can you speak to notification and jurisdiction yes proof of public and service publication and service are in order and the board has jurisdiction great um Ian Henderson uh on behalf of the planning office is going to get the ball rolling here uh and introduce this and then we'll turn to the applicant Ian if you could raise your right hand sure do you swear or fir firm that testimony about to give be the truth yes I do so friend all right thank you should we I'm sorry to interrupt Ian right out right out of the box no that's fine um but Jerry should we also swear in Derek and Dan yeah H at the same time yeah and is Justin GNA be here also Justin is here just in case I guess yeah sure is well okay so if the three you can raise your right hand do swear or affirm the testimony about to give or may give will be the truth yes I do do so affirmed go ahead Ian sorry about that no no problem good evening everybody uh Happy New Year and uh we'll kick kick this year off we have uh 14 North Harrison Street so tonight we have applicant RB homes LLC seeking minor sight plan approval and variance relief from the planning board uh for its proposed second floor office conversion to Apartments um we actually met uh the site plan committee on November 13th of last year uh where the application was deemed minor site development um but due to its bulk variances that's why it's it's brought before the larger board tonight um generally speaking there's a second floor uh change of use from Office based to Ford market rate units um I'll leave it to the applicant to go into more of those specifics I'm sorry I'm just going to share my screen great thank you okay and can meanwhile Carrie can you check the attendees room and make sure that any other uh folks who are here on behalf of the applicant are moved into the participant area thank you I see Chris tar I was just asking about him that's what I was wondering about yeah thank you go ahead um Ian gotta so um what you should see before you I'm not seeing your screen though or is anybody think the shared screen there we go okay let's see are you seeing the um the map in front of you the overhead yes perfect uh yeah so um this is the publicly available Rowan University um publicly accessible the New Jersey map parcel Explorer um so Jerry I guess we could label this pb1 exactly excellent um so we're looking at if you see the blue outline around the meril Lynch building um please disregard the the lines on top that was some residual from the program itself um so we're looking at the the mer Lynch parcel as well so block through [Music] 34.010659 the 2.4 excuse me the 0.24 Acre Site uh does border historic jug town so just below uh though according to the New Jersey historic preservation office the Lucy 2.0 website uh the parcel itself is now located in a locally designated historic district or listed as a state or nationally designated site in relation to our master plan uh we do have a land use goal to focus higher residential density within and around downtown um the RO zone is actually specifically listed in the land use recommendations of the plan um and is one of the downtown zones that's slated to be quote amended to promote the development of new residential dwellings within Princeton's downtown um generally speaking the plan does encourage uh the removal of barriers to increase density overall um and one of the mobility aims of the uh within the plan is to reduce inbound commuting through the development of additional housing and um some Transportation highlights of the unit itself we can see directly across the street you have the North Harrison um Nassau bus stop that's a uh NJ Transit route 606 so that provides access um connections to Regional Rail Hamilton station um Regional shopping uh just a a little bit higher up you have a little to to the north you have North Harrison Street as Spruce Circle so that's the mun bus Uh current route stops there um and again close enough and and for the uh pedestrian connections so we have sidewalks crosswalks connections to the uh downtown shopping uh diving deeper into the application itself um we're looking at the Merl Lynch building who had um approval for office building use in 2010 um upon lease renewal they opted to rent only the third floor and keep that for office space so now um the second is slated for uh change uh I should note that there there's no proposed exterior site improvements to the building um and just one request to the applicant uh the environmental information statement uh lists the first floor as residential as well I know that's that's not within the application before us um but I just want to clarify uh that that wasn't meant to say office uh as far as parking on site there is one parking stall that's proposed to be removed uh but the applicant will go through the additional bicycle parking that's that's going to be added um as far as the two variances uh we have a variance for usable open space 1,215 square feet is proposed where 1,400 square feet is required and um there's an additional variance for a minimum rear yard setback for 19 and 12 ft from the required uh 25 ft um at that at this point I'll uh I'll leave it if there should there be any remaining questions or concerns I'll save some of my additional staff comments if they're not addressed but at this point I'll I'll hand it back for the applicant to present thank you okay thank you um anything uh that uh Dan Weissman or Derek want to add before we hear from um yeah Derek thank you chair um uh there is just one other minor variance uh there's a requirement the open space being enclosed um it's not enclosed so that is is a third variance and uh the four units they're proposing uh do not reach a affordable housing set aside and uh just thinking of the future if one of the other floors is ever converted to residential use a fifth unit would trigger a 20% set aside so we ask that the applicant enter into an agreement um to be reviewed by the municipal attorney to uh make that unit affordable um if if more units are added above uh that triggers the 20% set aside um I think Dan had a comment that the fire uh subcode official would uh require a booster pump for the fire protection system and uh I think that's it Dan if you have any uh any other comments uh no that was uh that covers it nothing further I I don't have that memo right in front of you but I thought my reading of and maybe this is wrong so ple if so please tell me that the booster pump might be necessary do we know now from the may be the Fire official that he thinks that it is may be required right maybe okay corre so it's more of a heads up than a correct requirement okay great thank you uh Mr tar good evening good evening so this is a delightful adaptive reuse and U we have two witnesses Daniel barsky representing the owner and Susan favate uh is our planner we might save time if we had them both sworn now yep if you both can raise your right hands do you swear or affirm that testimony about to give will be the truth do do so sorner affirmed please State your full name and spell your last name uh Daniel barski b a rsk y Susan fava f a v a t thank you so Daniel's going to start off he has a slide presentation if we could have it marked as exhibit A1 we'll just turn it turn it over to Daniel right and Chris can you arrange for me to get a hard copy of that absolutely thank you all right let me just share my screen here everyone see my screen yes yes yes okay good uh good evening my name is Daniel barski and uh I will be presenting the following presentation regarding the application for 14 North Harrison Street so the property on 14 North Harrison is located uh Harrison Street it's close to the corner of Nassau Street where there's an existing three-story brick office building uh which the original site plan for that was approved in 2010 since that time it's been occupied by Marl Lynch till 2023 and here's a Google Earth image of the property and the existing building which is outline in red it's located in the RO O Zone in an area that has um a mix of commercial and residential uses within that area D Daniel are these um slides numbered they are okay this a slide two good as you go through them just sure as go thank you so um here on actually this is slide four the last slide was slide three this is slide four uh here is a picture of um the front of the existing building on 14 North Harrison Street um as I said maril Lynch has been occupying it till a couple years ago since it was first built uh the driveway entrance is to the Northern or right side of the building and on Slide Five as we continue along looking down the driveway is the right side elevation of the building uh and you can see here in this picture the covered parking uh which covers a portion of the rear of the building and as you continue along the rear um I took a picture here along the back you can see some additional parking spaces and finally uh on slide seven the southern portion or left side of the building which runs parallel to Nassau Street so during covid many Corporate Offices reduced or eliminated office space and this building and maril Lynch were no exception uh so in the beginning of 2023 maril Lynch reduced their office space from the second and third floors to just the third floor and at that time we hired a um a reput a reputable and local commercial broker Peter dods from Warford and do to releas the property as an office rental and um I'm sure as everyone knows that the effects from covid on the commercial real estate market were significant and the demand for office space has been drastically impacted uh over the two years over two years have gone by when we've been trying to rent this as office space and unfortunately we have not been able to rent it um so I'll start by just showing you um the existing and proposed floor plans so here are the floor plans for the existing first floor there was a question about the first floor and what the intended use is currently it's a Lobby and there are no changes proposed to the existing first floor uh and it will remain a lobby with access to the elevator slide 10 uh show the proposed floor plans for the conversion of the second floor which includes four apartments with three two bedrooms um each having one bathroom apartments and one Studio these units are to share a common Corridor and their own means of Ingress and egress through a dedicated stairwell and here's the existing floor plan for the third floor office space that that maril Lynch currently occupies and no changes are proposed to the third floor as mentioned earlier the property on for North Harrison is located in the RO Zone and attached are the zoning bulk requirements for the property as Illustrated the pro the proposed site complies in all aspects um with exception uh to a couple non-conform one of them is for the rear yard setback where 25 ft are required and 19 1 12 ft are proposed our other variance is for an open space requirement where we are short only 185 square feet 1,400 square feet is required and 1,215 square feet is proposed on slide 133 is the proposed slight plan the the existing footprint is outlined in blue and there's actually no changes proposed um to alter the existing structure uh in fact I'll I'll go over on slide 14 there's very few changes proposed to the existing site at all currently um as I mentioned on a previous Slide the building is 19 and a half feet from the rear property line because of the change to a mixed use the requirement is increased to 25 ft so um that building is actually not moving but the change in use um triggers that variance for that existing non-conformity um I guess it's um important to say here that currently there's large and mature pine trees buffering the rear property line uh so we are requesting variance relief for this existing condition we're also proposing removing one of the parking stalls which you can see in the top left of the screen um and replacing it with grass to combine it with the existing lawn area to create an open space even with removing this one parking stall will still uh meet the parking requirements after this uh conversion to open space um and there's another open space proposed in the front of the building also shaded green um in the front right corner of the screen and lastly two bicycle spaces are proposed in the front of the walkway uh right here highlight it in red the remaining covered bicycle storage will be located inside which I'll show on one of the following slides before I go into bicycle storage um just to finish off with open space this is a picture of the existing I where the Open Spaces proposed in the right rear of the property uh we're proposing to remove the one parking stall relocate the curb and remove the three small bushes to combine this area together to accommodate some of our open space requirement U you know one of the uh comments in the memo was about additional plantings we're not proposing any additional plantings here to keep this area actually usable by the residents of the building uh however the area will not be enclosed which is a variance condition that Derek mentioned but we feel with the existing mature trees the fence and the existing surrounding structures that there's enough of a buffer for Meaningful use of this area and also um a little bit later in the presentation our planner will be testifying uh to this particular property's location and vicinity to parks and other amenities that fulfill this need the second open space um area is in the front of the building which is indicated here in the yellow circle once again no additional Landscaping is proposed and we feel that the mature landscaping and existing structures provide some buffer where no official enclosure is provided um going back to the bicycle storage beyond the two bicycle spaces that we're providing by the front walkway there is a unutilized uh storage space that's accessible from the parking lot in the rear which has its own doors to to enter and that's what we're proposing to store four bicycle covered bicycle spaces and you can see that area highlighted in Red so uh the office will enter through the main front door which is circled in yellow um maril Lyn currently has a a a special key card uh protected to only allow them to enter through this entrance uh and we're proposing to keep it that way and to have a separate keyed entry for the apartments um which have their own entrance which you can see circled in red so the office will have an entrance from the front door and into the lobby which houses the elevator highlighted in blue the elevator can only access the third floor with the same key card that opens that main front door there's also an additional emergency stairwell dedicated to the third floor which is highlighted in yellow the stairway is accessible from the exterior left side of the building the one that runs parallel to Nassau Street and is accessible from the parking lot the apartments will have their own dedicated um means of access through the stairwell which is outlined in red they're not able to actually access the third floor from the stairwell as it's locked with a key card they can only access the corridor of the second floor from the stairwell uh and they can also take the door from the stairwell into the lobby um to access the elevator which will take them up to the second floor but will not allow them to go to the third floor without key card and uh finally uh bfj planning conducted a traffic impact assessment and concluded that the proposed residential conversion will slightly reduce traffic Generation Um in of the site in all peak hour periods so uh now I'll hand it over hand over the presentation to our planner Susan to provide some more information Madam chair Susan has testified before this board in the past I'll ask her if her license as a planner is still functional in which case we'd ask that she'd be accepted as a planning expert um I I expect that'll be no problem I would like to hear just a just a tad more than she's been here before yeah Madam chair it's been about a year tell us a little bit Miss faat uh to do am I pronouncing your name properly I'm sorry it's technically fa fva rhymes with karate fat Okay um a little bit about your education and experience sure thank you um I'm a principal of bfj planning where I've been um in professional planning practice for uh over 18 years uh I am a licensed New Jersey Professional planner um that license is current I'm also an a aicp certified uh member of the national Planning Association um I have a master's degree Dee in planning from New York University um and I currently serve as the burough planner in Red Bank and Madison I've testified before numerous planning and zoning boards uh including this one um just about a year ago I think and I've also appeared before your zoning board um I'm very familiar with Princeton as well we are doing some current work on behalf of the special improvement district so um we actually know a lot about uh the business districts and I serve on my own planning board up in chatt andboro uh where I've been for 16 years on the planning board including the last 10 or so as chair great well we accept your excellent qualifications thank you for going over them thank you madam chair um just to you know reorient refresh everyone's memory you've seen a couple different areals of the site we wanted to really contextualize this property um within Princeton and and show how it really is you know an excellent smart growth opportunity here because it is a very walkable site um to all of the local ad ities uh including Parks uh shopping uh grocery store uh and also the downtown core of Princeton so what you see on this map um which is slide 21 um the red circle shows a quarter mile radius from the site um that's generally about a 5 to six minute walk so within that quarter mile radius you have two public parks Cory Park just to the north off of Harrison um and as well Harrison Street Park uh further to the South south of Nassau Street so two parks within a five to six minute walk um as well as the grocery store which is literally around the corner so that really does provide um you know some basic amenities and then there are obviously some shopping and dining opportunities um in this section of of Nassau Street um but you can go just a little bit further uh and reach really the outskirts of downtown within that quarter mile radius and certainly within a half mile radius which is generally a 10 to 15 minute walk you're really in the downtown core Witherspoon Street uh and and that portion of Nassau so very very walkable environment uh it really is um just an excellent example of you know an Adaptive reuse in an infill residential project that um will introduce new housing opportunities without changing the neighborhood the existing neighborhood scale at just four units uh on one story of of a three-story building it it's going to complement that low density residential n nature of this portion uh of Harrison Street where you do see both single family homes uh and Tow houses and small apartments uh as well all kind of co-mingling with um you know with commercial uses as well um it's very much consistent with General best planning practices for smart growth um the future residents here will have the ability as I mentioned to easily access local businesses Parks other amenities um all without having to drive um I talked about the parks um and the businesses there's also as uh as Ian mentioned earlier there are two bus stops one directly across the street uh and one just a little bit to the north so that provides um you know excellent Regional Transit access so it's really textbook I think uh in my opinion good planning principles um the the flip side of that is that we do need some some variances which really are stemming from the fact that this is an Adaptive reuse project so it's not new construction um if it were a new newly constructed project it would probably be able to meet all of the area and bulk requirements but because the building exists there are some things that get triggered um so the first uh first set of two variances that are related you've heard about are the usable open space so um as you know there is a requirement uh for um 1500 square feet of of usable open space we are short by about 185 square feet we're providing just under just over 1200 square feet 1,215 um so that is a variance request and then the nature of the open space itself um the definition of usable open space means that it needs to be enclosed um our open space is not proposed to be formally enclosed as you just heard we do feel that because of the small nature of the site and the the presence of existing trees and buffering it's not really necessary and also uh enclosing this the space would um would actually be very difficult on a side of the size and making everything work so we do feel that um that's a reasonable uh variance request to ask for and then the third variance relates to the rear yard setback this building exists uh in a compliant state it it does meet all current bulk requirements including setbacks um but the conversion to residential then triggers a new rear yard setback um of 25 ft um the current setback is 20 feet um which the the building meets but it is short of that 25 foot setback which is triggered by the change of use so again no change to the building itself the condition exists it will will continue to exist um our rear rear stepb is 19.5 ft so it's just a bit short of that required 25 ft so those are the three um what I think are fairly minor variances uh that are being requested to facilitate this project um and and they really all as I said do stem from the fact that the existing building and it's it's related infrastructure can't really meet the uh required re rear yard setback for a mixed use building nor can it provide all of the reusable open space on the property without while still accommodating uh the on-site parking and circulation so all of the parking requirements are met on site both uh vehicular and bicycle uh and so we do think that it is an efficient use of this property and these site constraints really are inherent anytime you have an Adaptive foruse project um where the existing building was constructed as a commercial building that fully complied with all area and bulk Provisions so in order to make this case for for our requested relief we are looking at the C variance criteria um the public benefits tests in particular um as I'm sure you all know you've seen many variances come before you um the the the criteria of this public benefits test are that the need to show that the granting of the variants will advance the intents and purposes of the mlul and that the benefits of granting that variance substantially outweigh any potential detriments um and also that those benefits are truly public benefits not just accruing to uh the property owner um there is also the negative criteria aspect of the C variance relief where uh we must demonstrate that the variants can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and that will it will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the master plan and zoning ordinance so we did look at um the obviously the mlul goals as well as prinston own planning documents to confirm that this application does meet all of those goals and objectives so in terms of the ml goals I think the ones that are most relevant that are very clearly consistently met um relate to the public health safety morals and general welfare we think that this project is certainly consistent with advancing all of those goals and does not in any way impair them um there is also a goal goal e uh in the mlul that speaks to appropriate population densities and concentrations um and we believe that this is very much an appropriate level of density uh and and residential use um purpose or goal G of the mlul speaks to providing a variety of different land uses including residential uh as well as um you know in the context of other uses such as commercial open space Etc um in order to meet the needs of citizens we think that this this actually um very much is consistent with this mlul goal we are introducing you know limited housing opportunities uh into an existing context where it's very appropriate um and we're making maximum use of that space for for residential use and then the last ml goal that I think is most relevant is um go I which speaks to promoting a desirable V visual environment um we are not um creating any new developed newly developed buildings we are very much knitting in to the existing uh the existing context here using an existing building that has existed uh for some time and it's been um I think everybody would probably see it as fairly appropriate in terms of scale architecture Etc um so those are the mlul goals we also did review uh your 2023 master plan um Ian spoke to a few of these goals already um but I was just struck by how much of that plan is really talking about exactly what we were proposing you know introducing housing opportunities thinking about um introducing them in way in areas of the municipality that make the most sense so in and around the downtown and those periphery areas um in areas that are in close proximity to services and uh and open space and other amenities so the 2023 plan uh the L use element speaks to enhancing the existing patterns of land use by again focusing that residential density within and around the downtown we clearly are are consistent with that moving barriers to increased residential density um Ian spoked to that earlier as well um I I guess you could argue that that the variances required might be considered potential barriers so we are asking for relief from those to facilitate um this infill residential development on the mobility side you already heard from from Ian earlier about the goal about reducing inbound commuting um through creating more walkable um housing opportunities um there's also a goal about uh encouraging non-vehicular transportation and and that really is part and parcel with a walkable environment as well uh and also the bicycle infrastructure that we are providing um the natural resource element talks about coordinating and preserving development to accommodate population growth while preserving and enhancing natural resources as an Adaptive reuse project this is really efficient development it's not creating any uh any new development on uh Green Space it's using an existing building that is part of an already built environment um a second goal here under natural resource conservation is guiding growth away from natural resources and into areas with existing or planned infrastructure this area is obviously already developed and has all of the infrastructure in place to support this residential development and then the last um part of the master plan Economic Development uh there's a goal that speaks to increasing the percentage of workers who can live in Princeton by expanding the range of Housing and non-motorized transportation options this is certainly consistent with that goal in terms of both the housing opportunities and the access to uh to non-vehicular transportation we also looked at your 2020 housing element um which this is all very very similar I don't want to be redundant but it does speak to Smart growth principles mix of land uses range of housing opportunities walkable neighborhoods um attractive communities uh focusing growth in existing parts of the community and then providing a variety of transportation choices so we do feel very much that this application is consistent with all of Princeton's existing planning goals and objectives it's consistent with the mlul goals um and that the variance relief is is Justified um by the benefits of providing that the new housing opportunities that are within walking distance to downtown Princeton and doing that in a way that doesn't in any way alter the built scale um while activating this building that has sat vacant for several years or portion of it has sat vacant for several years um another benefit there's a couple other benefits of the project it will reduce the amount of impervious coverage slightly but it's still a reduction um and similarly it will result in a slightly less traffic generation as you heard compared with an all office use so all of these benefits uh clearly further the public good they're consistent with the mlul and your established planning goals um this development will will leverage a prime infill development site an opportunity to create new housing um that's walkable that's part of smart growth mentality that preserves that Community scale and provides a different type of housing as well you heard early on about um there these are not dedicated affordable units I'll let the applicant speak to uh to the request um which I think is very amenable to about future uh potential affordable housing triggers but these will be market rate that being said they are going to be you know somewhat smaller units the nature of them going into an existing building rather than new construction just the configuration of these units means that they will be relatively more affordable than many of the other market rate units that that you're seeing in Princeton particularly the newly constructed ones so it really does provide a different price point I think um and a different type of housing that um that is needed in Princeton and is really part of your your ongoing housing um goals and objectives so um we we feel that the variance relief is very much Justified that the benefits uh far outweigh any detriments um that there are public good benefits and that this application approval can be granted uh without substantial detriment to any public good um and it would not impair any intent or purpose of either the master plan or the zoning ordinance with that being said I happily entertain questions thank you very much Susan that was great Madam chair we have Daniel and Susan are available to the board and the public for questions okay great thank you Mr tar um Paula vuka um thank you for the presentations uh so I just have a I just lost this screen sorry about that um just one observation and then a a request for clarifications um just looking at the floor plan the second floor plan uh it looks like Apartment 4 has just one very small window can we put that up on the screen can we go back to thanks yeah so Apartment 4 is the one that's um AB buding the elevator and the stairwell um so it will be the least desirable apartment in that respect as well and it also has one very small window um I don't I just wanted to point that out um as something you may want to consider uh the other question for clarification relates to the parking situation I'm trying to understand the parking flow and how that works with the covered parking area so I don't know if you could go back a couple of slides to the site plan just to explain that um and how many parking spaces are covered and how many are outside the covered area uh yeah sure so there's one handicap stall with striping that's fully covered and then there's one full space um that's covered the rest are kind of partially covered as you can see in this uh photo here so this is normally how they Park they're partially covered um for all intensive purposes their exterior spaces you can kind of see here in the corner there's one car parked here uh that currently belongs to the meril Lynch and it's going to stay that way there's a handicap handicap spot next to it and the rest for all intensive purposes are exterior partially covered so answer that question yeah so are there four or six partially covered spaces there um because I think the staff notes mentioned something like 15 and I'm just wondering how you count that up yeah there's 16 total uh one was one is being proposed to be removed to better meet the open space requirement but Curr currently there's one two three four five basically five that are parti covered and then one fully covered and one handicap stall that's fully covered okay okay and then there's a dumpster in one of them so that's not really usable either right no the the the dumpster is back here okay is and it's not actually um considered a a parking space in our calculations okay all right um so that adds up to 15 even with the so even adding removing that parking space to create open space you would still have 15 spaces left over correct correct and we would still meet the parking requirement for this mix use application for the one and a half spaces per apartment and then um what the ordinance requires uh per square foot of office space okay all right thank you thank you py um Jack Taylor and then Claudia Wilson Anderson Jack yeah first and foremost I'm impressed with the development itself my question concerns staff's suggestion that there be a conditionality namely for affordable housing I would appreciate understanding in Greater detail what is the background the rationale how does that work number one and number two is that a role which the planning board in fact can play and number three what is the reference to the lawyer and our lawyer Jerry and an opinion should this conditionality come into play yeah I think so I don't mean to put words in the professionals mouths and maybe I should let Jerry answer this but it it is we're not requiring uh affordable housing we're noting that the four units is just shy of what would trigger an affordable housing requirement and if there's further development residential development on this site if they convert the third floor to Apartments then these four will be counted toward that obligation do I have that right Jerry that's exactly right what we want to avoid and we've done this at least one time in the past is we said if you if you're not at a point where the number of units requires an affordable housing set aside you you can add to that subsequently so that you um so so that you would um have a requirement and so if there's a subsequent addition there there'll be a requirement and there be affordable housing set aside and the whole idea in part is we don't want to that's not the case here but we don't want a situation in where somebody a developer is coming in subdividing a property saying here's four units and then a year later they're coming in with four units on another subdivided property you an adjacent subdivided property when it should it should be treated as one unitary development and um Dan and uh and Derek what what was that case in which we did that do you remember uh that was 217 Witherspoon Street it was four tow houses that were constructed toward W the rear of the property okay um and just to further clarify Mr Muller if you don't mind me jumping in here oh no absolutely the ordinance uh envisions what what the the goal of this agreement would be it does state that no subdivision shall be permitted or approved for the purpose of avoiding compliance with this requirement a Del developer may not for example subdivide a property into two lots and then Place each of them to produce a number of units just below the threshold so the ordinance does contemplate it however I think there's um an area that we just want to make sure we're crossing our tees and dotting Our Eyes by also including the fact that it's a site plan right this is not a subdivision application it would likely be that that further conversion of space in this would not result in a subdivision application um but the intent is that the project may not be divided up to avoid compliance with the affordable housing requirement and just for the record the applicant agrees to do all that for Mr Taylor's sake you might be aware that be when you build only four units you must pay an affordable housing fee to the municipality which will be done here yeah thanks for adding that uh Chris that's important y thanks for that question Jack um Claudia yes thank you and I I Echo uh Jack's comment that I do think this is an excellent uh creative reuse of the of the property uh I do have some questions and I'm hoping Hing you can clarify two things relating to Ingress and egress as it relates to fire um erass from the second floor and a handicap Ingress erass um um so the third floor offices have their own stairwell for fire egress which um exits from the third floor and takes you all the way down to the side property line and out to the parking lot and the first floor has I excuse me the second floor Apartments have their own stairwell which also has a dedicated stairwell that takes you out through the front of the building uh so originally the building was designed to have two means of egress which is why it um uh really works here to have the apartment so that uh each unit each uh use space can have its own stairwell Plus in addition to that the lobby and the elevator is there any requirement for a second independent mean of egress from the second floor no only for 10 apartments or more is my understanding but obviously we'd have to comply with all building code regulations uh as we go down that road you had mentioned something about the elevator also being available is that something for handicap that's a possibility yes it's a possibility in other words judge Daniel explain the use of the red arrow going to the left there in the in the toward the elevator there's there's Cur once you access this apartment entrance you can take the stairwell up but there also is a door here which takes you into the lobby which then you could take the elevator to the second floor thank you uh the the third uh question I have I think is just uh regarding the fence for the adjacent property to the north um I assume that that fence is owned by you um you know what I'm really not sure but I'm happy to repair it it's something that is this the fence you're talking about here yes I assume since the attractive side was facing the other way the fence was owned by you and just be request to repair it yeah not a problem I'm happy to do so thank you thank you for that Daniel can I can I ask a question um you would indicate there wouldn't be any plantings in this useful open space back there that's on the screen now um that will be grassed I take it yeah so uh the plan is to relocate this curb to this strip parking stall so that this is all open space and actually my anticipation was to take out these I mean these bloom in the spring right now it's winter but my anticipation was to take these out to make this really a more usable space but leave the rest of the mature Landscaping that has really creates a nice buffer around the neighboring properties okay would there be any amenities that you expect to place there like a t or anything like that no I I wasn't planning on it and you know um Susan has kind of testified to all the amenities around the area the parks and shopping center and Grocery Stores um it's just an area where you know you could take your dog out or um uh it wasn't my plan at the moment no okay so it's when it's usable it just means the type of thing you just described and I take it somebody could come out with a blanket and L on it or something like that okay let me ask you this also um if you converted the space to the right of the one you're converting to open space now you'd have a parking shortage and you would need relief for that but as a practical matter do you need that space I I would prefer to keep it to be to be frank um yeah um you know it's it's possible that the studio for example may not need a parking space but I would like to have one so that I don't have to find offsite parking um and I and and and frankly the I think the tradeoff considering the location um to have a parking space and be able to accommodate that considering the parks and other amenities that are around probably uh is a better use of the space okay thank you um following up on one of Mr mohler's questions um I I really do think that having a bench or two um would be a very good idea in in both of the open space areas that you have identified just so that people could you know step outside and sit down I don't even know that especially if those are native shrubs I don't know that you would need to remove those although I'm not you know gonna die in a ditch over that or whatever but I I feel like it's much more usable if um if there's a a place to sit you know not you know not picnic tables not um anything that you know takes up the entire uh site because your point is taken about you know being able to take dogs out there and whatnot but um and the the space in the front of the building that's the the usable open space that's immediately adjacent to um North Harrison Street is it not doesn't one part of that border North Harrison am I ites this yeah this runs along North Harrison and then adjacent to the property that runs along Nassau and Chris is that Graves building King behind there king king's building King's building building excuse me um yeah so that's this area here if the board feels yeah yeah if the board feels that um that would be the best use of space um we're as the applicant we're certainly amable to putting a bench or adding some kind of um sitting area uh for the residents so we're we're certainly open to it if you guys feel that's the best way to utilize that space um you know well my my opinion is it it would be in that one of the uh um um staff reports suggests that you know this come back to the um landscape committee for for a final look um which I would support too but can we see the the overview of the plan that shows in green the two open space areas there we go so the border that is um right next to the sidewalk along the west side of North Harrison um are there trees there right now or is that just um basically exposed to the sidewalk my my point is I know from driving over there a fair amount that traffic backs up a good bit um on Harrison U you know leading up to to the um the signal at Nassau Street and it would be really good to have a barrier either with shrubs or a fence not necessarily a six foot tall fence but um but some fence that gives some you know clear sense of uh separation between that open space and um and the sidewalk and and Street both for you know just a little bit of a shield in privacy and also um you know might be good if you have any concern at all about people living you know who knows where and having their dogs use that property as opposed to the people who live there accessing it if you get my drift so I don't know can you speak mad chair we might if we've looked at this one let's go back to the the photograph with the vegetation uhhuh one more here we go so those are mature trees uh on the property yeah so partially screens this area I take your point there could be some more Landscaping uh a bit more in front of the building but is there any between the sidewalk it this doesn't look to me as any between the sidewalk and this area we're talking as you move toward Nassau Street I believe that those trees are between that the portion of the open space and the sidewalk oh okay in other words Harrison Street is running down the the white side of the of this slide uhhuh I see okay well I mean you get the point I'm making that it would be good to um you know I'm not suggesting that the all these open space areas should be enclosed um I I totally agree with you that that is not practical and probably maybe very well not the best way to make them usable and accessible to um to the folks who will live there but I do think that if there is and based on a a street view of the property that I saw um uh earlier today it looked to me like a a chunk of this was very exposed to uh the street where cars like I said routinely are just backed up and sitting there idling and um you know including the uh New Jersey Transit bus and whatnot and I just think it would be more pleasant for everyone if there were a separation between that usable open space area uh with a couple of benches and um and the sidewalk and Street um I also had a uh question if we can go back to the other open space area picture one slide away yeah so the dumpsters on the left there is that where I assume where garbage goes from the yeah there's a trash and recycling containers there so once you have residences there that garbage is to be you know kitchen waste among other things and um and potentially pet waste and I'm just wondering whether you might relocate um that to a place that's not immediately adjacent to what you want your uh usable open space to be for people who might you know want to sit there for a while in the summer and not smell the smells just a thought and I I don't have a different place on the property that I would suggest that you know that you you know it better than I do but you know maybe a different Corner that's uh I I think that the reason it was designed here in the first place is um it's actually a um a it's not like they're not individual cans it's an um uh like a big container that they pick up with the forks and the location where it is now it's straight back from the driveway so the trash company backs in picks it up and drives out and I think the site is tight enough for a big garbage truck if it was in a different location to be able to put the forks on and lift it up would be that would be the create a practical issue for actually removing it um and actually it's it's the most efficient way like uh it takes up the least amount of space but holds the most amount of garbage in recycling is with those kinds of bigger bins that they pick up with the forks yeah I take your point um yeah I just think you might be needing to think down the road about making sure that you you know with the additional Residential Waste you're not putting um you know something that generates odors immediately adjacent to your public open space um Muka thanks I just had a question about the parking spaces on the other side of the site um that are on the other side of the building there's two um which border the parking area of the next door property um I think what you said was the king um next to the king building would it I don't know if you considered the possibility of converting those spaces to open space um that might that space might actually be more usable for residents as it's a little bit more secluded um away from the trash bins and the parking yeah I you know when we were first um designing this site we came up with the parking requirements for the mix use for the existing office and the proposed residential we were able to lose one space without creating another parking variant so we felt that where we proposed it was the most appropriate place to combine it and make it work if I was to convert the other in an additional space it would trigger a parking variance requirement which we were trying to avoid so it would obviate the need for the open space variance but it would create a parking variance so you trade off one variance for another yeah am I understanding that correctly yes yes correct we would be complying with open space variant while creating a parking variance and as as Susan our planner uh testified we think because of the location of this property to multiple parks and downtown grocery stores that um the need for open space is not as impactful as maybe some other parts of town and and on top of that we're pretty darn close to getting to where we need to be as the ordinance uh requires okay understood and and I I I maybe should have said this at the outset I I agree with other board members that have um you know expressed appreciation for a project that is an Adaptive reuse that is gentle infill that is walkable to so many desirable destinations and to those nearby parks and um um you know those those issues are are compelling um I have one other question about the the open space on the other side of the property next to Harrison Street um would you consider um in addition to putting a couple of benches there uh I believe that there is plenty of room for an additional shade tree that might be uh a nice amenity for the for the property and for the residents um and wonder whether you uh what you think about that um yeah absolutely I think it would be it would be nice to the streetscape and it would be nice to more and close this open space and um I think that's a good suggestion and we're happy to do that thank you um are there other questions from board members before we invite members of the public to pose questions okay seeing none um if uh for those of you who are uh in the attendees room and there are eight people here um attending and observing um if any of you have comments um that you want to make or questions that you want to pose about this application now is the time to virtually raise your hand um and address the board I am not seeing any hands go up so I'll just say once again the um the link for virtually raising your hand is at the bottom of your screen there should be a raise hand icon if you're watching by Zoom or if you're on the phone you press star nine um okay seeing No Hands going up I will close the public comment portion of uh or close public comment on this application and invite [Music] um uh final comments and suggested conditions from board members and staff we have talked about um a condition to uh bring a landscape plan to or don't create a separate you know fully engineered specific landscape plan but come to the plan come to the landscape subcommittee of the planning board and show where benches would be placed and where um you think a shade tree um might be best positioned I'm sure that our U Municipal arborist would be happy to consult on that um on that question both as to location and to species and I really appreciate your willingness to do that um another condition that has been suggested I think um well it has to do with the acknowledgment which Mr tar said the applicant is willing to um to make that um about the affordable housing requirement and these counting toward a future requirement if additional um residents are added to this building um what am I missing let's see um the appli applicant indicated that they would repair the fence uh right rear that's in disarray that might be it let me I don't think I saw anything else can you take a look at the at the uh Mr Bridger has your hand up yes madam um just the little blurb about the booster pump if necessary yeah I was just right thank you yep um if the board doesn't object considering the Landscaping here is very minimal I would much rather prefer if Taylor and Dan can sign off on a shade tree and benches as opposed to going to a landscape subcommittee where you know the Landscaping here is really limited I mean it's existing um you know we're talking about adding a tree which I'm happy to do and some benches uh you as applicant I would prefer if uh Dan and Taylor or combination uh could sign off on the locations and the species of that without going to the landscape subcommittee now when you say Dan you referring to Dan Tober milski or Dan Weissman Dan Weissman I mean yeah municip engine would be the would be the better yeah the fine person fine that that that's absolutely fine with me yeah okay and Mr barsky what are your as as far as the point that I made pro I'm sure repeatedly and sorry if I was repetitive but about the um a barrier between this open space that we're looking at here and the and Harrison Street uh either in the form of a fence or Shrubbery um is that something you're also I I am personally I think like a little section of fence would be odd here but um I'm certainly happy I think Shrubbery would better enclose this area in a more like kind of authentic natural way and I'm certainly happy to with Dan Weissman and with Taylor or the combination of both to figure out what that looks like um it's only a stretch of like 10 or 15 feet so it's not a it's not a whole lot of landscaping plus there's going to be a shade tree there so that's going to fill in some of the area uh and and then to coordinate with them you know benches and again the area is it's not very big and there there's not a whole lot of plan or a whole lot you could do there with it so if I could do that with them I would most certainly prefer to and um but yeah the the answer is yes I'm I'm happy to put some Shrubbery in and to kind of more um make that area more private along Harrison Street yeah okay thank you so I have a question I guess for for Jerry Mueller and for staff if they want to pipe up and that that is um does Mr barsky's request to work with um dorber milski who who as you know Mr barsky is our um Consulting landscape architect um and with Taylor Sapar rather than come you know to a scheduled meeting of the landscape subcommittee does that does that create more work for staff or or is that or not I mean what I want to be sensitive to is not placing a burden on staff that the that the subcommittee you know could handle and am I am I being clear M Madam chair St St Steph has no objection um we're happy to work with the applicant uh I think you've provided uh very clear guidance as to what the board would like to see here um and I'd be happy to work with the parties identified uh here tonight um to help incorporate those into the site okay all right thank you uh Dan Weissman I I appreciate that absolutely okay so um with those conditions that have been articulated um would Mr Weissman again sorry just uh the standard standard boilerplate comments at the end of the report uh regarding inspection fees and uh other potential uh Outside Agency approvals uh if those could also be made conditions good thank you yes um would any member of the board like to make a motion at this at this time Mr McGowan actually I have a I guess I have a question variant the variances do they have to be included yes the the motion if it were a motion to approve would be to uh approve this minor site plan with the variances identified setback variance and um uh open space di Minimus open space variance uh and and the fact the open space is not enclosed right correct yeah well with that then i' with those I'd move for approval thank you Mr Macwan is there a second I second thank you Mr Taylor um Miss Philip will you call the role Please Mr Macwan yes Miss Nuka yes Miss Pearl yes Mr Taylor yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried we thank you very much thank you good night everybody thank you thanks for an interesting application well done thank you thanks take care okay uh so in um