##VIDEO ID:iqzoXyJHCGI## good evening and welcome this is a special meeting of the Princeton planning board on December 12th 2024 pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the time and place of this special meeting has been given by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton on the 25th day of November 2024 notice of this meeting has been posted to to the municipal website Princeton nj.gov calendar notice that all regular and special meetings of the Princeton planning board will be held electronically via Zoom was transmitted to the Princeton packet and the times and was filed with the clerk of Princeton on Tuesday January 17 2023 please note that this meeting is being recorded during hearings on applications for development members of the public will have an opportunity to comment and ask questions public com comment is heard by the board after an applicant's Representatives have finished their presentations and have been questioned by planning board m members and staff when the time comes those wishing to comment orally should virtually raise your hand by clicking on the reactions or raise hand icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen or if participating by phone by pressing star n oral comments will be taken in the order in which hands were raised we ask with respect that members of the public express your views in three minutes or less we will have a countdown clock to help speakers keep track of time please note that speakers who exceed 3 minutes will be interrupted in appropriate public comment containing obscenity hate speech or relating to matters not before the board will be muted Harry will you call the role Please Mr bimer here miss capoli here Mr Cohen here Mr Macwan here miss Nuka here Mr Odon here miss pearlmutter here miss Sachs Mr Taylor here Miss Wilson Anderson here Mrs Wilson here we have a quorum thank you um announcements um just a quick one for me uh and then maybe Justin has uh something as well um but I just want wanted to point out it being December that the nomination committee uh will undertake its work to nominate um officers of the board for 2025 um the committee is Alvin Macwan chair Julie capoli Nat bodimer and paa vuka so um uh you all can meet in whatever Forum You Wish by phone by Zoom I think you can deliberate by email uh under the law so is that correct Mr meller yes it is okay um so thank you in advance for your service on the nomination committee um any other announcements Justin or members of uh the board or staff uh yes Madam chair thank you and uh good evening members of the board and members of the public um the only announcement I have is that we expect um that the council uh the hbc's chosen a consultant for uh the design guidelines that have been talked about for some time now um for historic districts uh and we expect that uh consultant contract to be on the council's meeting which is next Thursday night same night as our meeting so please still come to this one um but it's next Thursday at 6 pm and that's just another example of something that's within the master plan um as a a recommendation uh related to land use similar to other things that are underway uh such as the environmental resource inventory um a look at our signage regulations with the consultant and a few other things great thank you um and the record should show um council president uh saxs is present um any other announcements from anyone okay on to subcommittee reports Justin did you want to Sure uh not quite a report um just scheduling uh the site plan committee is meeting on Wednesday to discuss an application at the Stonybrook Regional sewage Authority uh up in the northeast corner of town um and that would just be for classification uh as that application will come back to the board since it includes variances we expect that uh probably January or February probably more so February um and then the landscape committee is meeting um on uh the 19th which is Thursday um to discuss 112 to 116 Prospect AV uh those are the ones the historic buildings that were relocated across Prospect Avenue uh and just the final landscape plan for that one and um that's on the municipal calendar that's open to the public for anyone that's interested great and of course we have a meeting uh Thursday night as well I ask Thursday night meeting um is it starting at 7:30 or 7 I know there was a discussion at some point maybe just at the staff to push it back to 7:30 because some people could not make it at seven but yeah we have other business that I think we can hand I think we're starting at seven is that correct yes that's correct I don't anticipate as you'll see in the agenda tomorrow uh that we will be able to hear the application uh that was carried to that date that was one of the shopping center that you'll actually see part of it in a resolution in a minute um but we still will have the uh uh conversation about adopting new bylaws okay good um minutes we have two sets of minutes I'm skipping over findings of fact number five because we have resolutions and findings of fact number seven on the agenda so um so let's do minutes and then we will do the resolutions um we have uh minutes from February 15th and from March 21 first both regular meetings um any suggestions or edits to the minutes from February 15th I was just going to advise that Mr bodimer Miss sax and Mr Taylor were not present that evening okay on approve the minutes for February 15th thank you U moved by Miss capoli seconded by Mr Cohen um all in favor please say I I any opposed or abstaining thank you um next we have minutes for March 21st 2024 also a regular meeting any um comments edits suggestions that if not would someone like to move them I'll move those two moved by Julie capoli seconded by Owen O'Donnell thank you Miss Owen you were not present I'm sorry I should have said something seconded by Alvin Alvin Macwan all in favor please say I I I any opposed or abstaining I'm abstaining I was also absent yes right thank you um good thanks very much and no Carrie is working diligently to catch us up on the minutes and sometimes it's slowo but she's working on it uh next up we have three resolutions the first um is oh okay being carried to uh the to next week um do I still need to read the well I'll read it anyway the first is Stephen wasow minor subdivision and lot line adjustment at 3 537 and 561 Stockton Street file number p2323 d368 Ms and um we're carrying that to next week uh next up we have um the resolution for the institute for advanced study um this preliminary and final site plan with variances at one Einstein Lane uh SL Olden Lane file number p242 4- 467 P um and I think we may choose to carry that one as well um Mr Cohen had some concerns that I share so David if you would articulate those I'd appreciate it yeah just um One Piece which isn't too material to this to the to the application but which I'd like to correct in the record is um the way that historic treatment of the historic aspects of the building is you know we had a fair amount of discussion about it at the meeting the applicant made great efforts to respect the architectural Integrity of the building and it didn't make it into the resolution so I'd like to add some language uh regarding that and then the second thing which is more substantive is the condition relating to bicycle parking you know talks about them doing a campus plan which is great which is what we agreed to but it really only alludes to the quantity of bike parking campus wide and doesn't really talk about the design of the bike parking and people may remember that there was fair amount of discussion about the um the fact that a lot of the bike parking is not compliant with our design requirements specifically speically talks about to include reference to that David go ahead Jerry it's specifically talks about design in that condition it talks about design being required to be addressed in their annual report but it doesn't make any reference to the fact that much of the bike parking that is existing on site is non-compliant from a design standpoint and that I I just think it's helpful to be specific about the expectation that the report should include a plan for bringing non-compliant bike parking into compliance uh as part of the plan and so yeah I I did notice that Jerry but I felt like it would be helpful to the applicant as they prepare the plan to be more specific about what design aspects are being asked for okay and so I I was hoping we could push it for week just because between these two concerns I had I wanted to be able to work with you on the language a little bit um yeah and not do it you know um uh as as a committee the whole sounds good yeah work with me is that what you're saying yeah we usually do which is you do the first draft and I comment on that and yeah that sounds very good to me okay just timing wise um I think we'll make every effort to get it out tomorrow uh you know there's a little tight timeline with the back-to-back meetings that we don't usually have so we'll make every effort to get it out tomorrow on the usual Friday that we get things out to the board um but if it's not Madam chair are you okay with us sending that out Monday Tuesday Wednesday of next week or well maybe not Wednesday Monday Tuesday yeah yeah okay yeah um all right and the third resolution is Princeton Eden Princeton shopping center signage um this preliminary and final major site plan with variances facade signage only 301 North Harrison Street file number P 2424 d506 p and there are some minor edits to be made there um do you want to list them Mr Cohen or are you just David I wonder if I could I wonder if I can read some changes that U I'm propos to incorporate see if that works for you okay great this would be on page well it's on the eight of my draft but it's where it's a list of all the things we're expecting with respect to these um identification signs um the fourth bullet says sign D1 uh I would have it read now show the exact location and show the arrows that some traffic will be straight another traffic will turn and then with respect to next bullet sign D2 show the exact location and Center it on the incoming traffic Lanes yeah I that captures what my uh comments were okay good and and I guess D3 should also we should it should show the exact location I mean it refers the fact that it's being relocated from what was originally proposed and that was what we discussed but I just want them to come back and give us an approximate location for that let's have the exact location of all three of them yep sure thank you so with those amendments um or minor edits would someone like to move those minute or excuse me that resolution for the signage moved by Mr Cohen seconded by bodimer n bodimer thank you uh um let's do a roll call Mr bimer yes Miss capoli yes Mr Cohen yes Mr mwan yes Miss Nuka he abstain Mr odonnell Mr odonnell is he there yes yes oh thank you Miss pearlmutter yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried thank you okay next we have an application from pip commercial LLC this is a major site plan at 4042 North Chan street block 27.2 Lot 27 file number p242 24- 511p and um the deadline under the municipal land use law was the 5th of December it's this uh extension has been granted to um December 31st but we're gonna handle this tonight I hope um roof of publication in service or in order and the board has jurisdiction perfect thank you thanks very much Jerry um Justin leco you w to get us started here certainly thank you madam chair Justin if you raise your right hand who else would testify on behalf of oh yes um Derek Dan Derber milski uh Dan Weissman y if you go raise your hand you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give will be the truth do yes those one affirmed I do do thank you uh thank you madam chair excuse me an as well yeah I I already this SW okay thank you sorry Victor I did not see your your Square it's okay um good go ahead Justin thank you madam chair and I'll start by sharing my screen um which uh not surprisingly I'm showing the subject property using the NJ map partial Explorer map which is publicly available from Rowan University and I suppose we'll call this pb1 Jerry yes correct yep and let me just make sure you could see that yep uh so the uh subject property is located on North two lane Street near the center of town uh in my memo I discuss the development of North 2 Lane Street a little over 100 years ago as well as the person it's named for though I'll refrain from that unless the board is interested um the subject property is within the RB residence business uh zone of the former burrow which does allow for residential buildings with multiple dwellings like you'll see with this application the RB Zone was created in the 70s uh from partials mostly in the R4 residential Zone uh interestingly uh to me at least the planning board voted against the zoning change and the council overrode it as they are allowed to do um before I get into the application before you I want to summarize previous ones uh to add some context um at this property uh the board approved an application in March 2022 allowing for 14 units and office or retail space uh utilizing the affordable housing overlay one ahl1 uh three of the units would have been designated affordable and the building that was on the site was required to be retained to utilize the aho1 uh that build building dated back to at least 1918 uh nearly half of that building which was required just to utilize the aho was demolished um a stop work order was issued as this was also done without any Municipal permits uh and then staff worked with the property owner to charart a path forward uh to utilize the overlay um by saving the remainder of the building this could have been requested uh through a modification of the approved application before the planning board uh which the property owner did submit to the planning office in August 2023 uh however uh in October 2023 the property owner then rescinded that application and filed a new one to demolish the remainder of the building um and obviously since the building was required to be retained to utilize the ah1 demolishing the building really took the A1 off the table uh for this property and by February of this year the whole building was demolished um the property is located within the Princeton historic distri district on the state and National Reg of historic places but it was not and is not located within any designated local historic districts uh our previous master plan listed a central residential historic district which we had applied to this property uh when reviewing it however suggested districts do not provide any protections from Demolition um and neither do the state just being on the state and National one only the the designated local ones uh make those requirements kick in for our from our Municipal ordinance so uh the historic preservation element of our current plan lists the state and national uh Princeton historic district as one that should be evaluated for uh potential local designation so before I move on are there any questions about either the timeline or the history or the the uh historic status and demolition or should I just continue like you can go ahead great thank you uh so just moving on the Firestone Library bus stop is within walking distance of the subject property across Nassau Street which is just off my screen um several lines of princ University's uh tiger Transit stop there which are free and open to the public the free Muni bus stops there as well and the NJ Transit 606 bus line stops there uh the 606 is the line that goes from Hamilton to Robinsville to Trenton to lawrencville and then through Princeton up to the shopping center uh there are metered parking spaces on North 2 Lane Street across from the subject property as well as on Spring Street uh and obviously the Spring Street Garage is adjacent uh to the west of this property as well the cop Cycles building and the gravel lot adjacent to it are to the south of the subject property uh and Residences and Commercial properties are on North tane and spring streets so the proposal you'll hear about shortly is for a three-story 35 foot tall building with a crawl space and a roof deck no basement uh it has four two-bedroom units and six parking spaces the parking spaces are two are in two areas um five are to the south of the proposed building one of which is a compact space and the sixth is to the north of the building behind a gate and is described as Ada accessible uh three of the four units are each on the first and second floors with staircases uh two of these uh also have private yards uh just outside of them uh and the third one is adjacent to what's listed as a shared open space yard uh the fourth unit is mostly on the third floor of the building uh with a staircase uh and an elevator to it a private staircase and elevator um it includes four balconies uh private balconies two of them are on the third floor alongside the living area and then two more on the second floor access from that interior staircase um and it also includes access to the private roof deck nine trees are uh being removed or have been removed um which would require 11 replacement trees uh six are proposed to be planted on site as part of this application with a financial contribution for the remainder to the uh shry trust fund um and a landscape plan has also been provided um so that's about it for my brief introduction um but I do want to note that staff has major concerns with the Ada space uh and frankly if it works at all for people with disabilities um we also have concerns about the shared open space behind one of the units uh as it looks almost identical to the private open space behind another one of the units uh and it very well may function as private space or even be marketed as that um and uh you know I look forward to hearing the applicant's presentation and their responses to to these concerns and others um though I will say I don't know if if this application can be amended on the fly or alternatively um if variances will need be requested um I guess we'll figure that out through the discussion uh Mr Weissman and Mr Bridger are here with their engineering and Zoning report Mr Ana is here with his traffic engineering report and Mr Dober milsky is here with his landscape architectural report um so for now I'll hold my comments uh thank you madam chair okay thank you Mr leco um so I remember uh reading a a few uh suggestions um offered up by Mr do rilski and some uh Corrections clarifications suggestions made in the U planning and or excuse me the zoning and Engineering memo I see Ryan nodding your head so I hope that you will uh address all of those or one of your uh expert witnesses will um there were also some good suggestions from the environmental commission um Dan Dan and Derek do any of you or Mr uh or Victor do you have anything you need you think the Board needs to hear before we hear from the applicant any real real red flag kind of issues that cause you concern no okay uh yeah I do I do have uh concerns uh like uh Justin said I have concerns with the um location of the ads space right um there is a a fence and a wall I think there's a wall that blocks the accessible aisle yeah and then the gate uh I don't know how the operation will allow somebody with a wheelchair or somebody who is dis who has some kind of repairment to access the parking lot without opening the gate and also um The Turning template that was presented did not show how a vehicle will come out of that space into Tain it seems like uh the only way will be a backing maneuver onto the road and for that space that is designated for uh ads space uh it could be a van and uh I have concerns about the uh maneuver and also uh the garding fence that is U to the I guess to the east of it uh there I also have concerns with that um okay so those are those are the things that I have for now okay all right we'll make sure that they that they address those um specifics in your as you've articulated them and also in your memo um Mr Weissman anything quickly before we go to the applicant yes very quickly thank you madam chair good evening everyone um just a clarification uh there is two dominous exceptions to residential site Improvement standards um one of which uh is for the number of spaces that are are provided uh eight are required per those standards six total spaces are being provided uh the engineering Zone report notes that five are those five that are provided meet the the size standards um as Mr anos had pointed out in his report one space is Compact and would need an exception for the size of that space uh so the clarification from the report is that uh six spaces are provided so the dominous exception is for two spaces and then there's also a dominous exception for the size of that space so just wanted to clarify that okay thank you good thank you uh Mr Kennedy thank you very much um good evening um Madam chairwoman members of the board um my name is Ryan Kennedy from the law firm of Stevens ly uh here tonight for pip commercial LLC the owner applicant of this project want to appreciate everyone's efforts here particularly during the the holiday season to to meet uh all your Professionals for providing their feedback uh and for you uh being here tonight on the outset just to re re reiterate what Mr Lesco indicated earlier with the history uh the applicant really does appreciate there was a long period of time uh working with staff to try to make the prior Project work um timing wise and ultimately you know does send its apologies for the way ultimately the construction happened it's not how they normally operate uh they relied on a DCA approval and not waiting for the municipal approval for the Demolition and ultimately very appreciative of the town's professionals and staff for all of the efforts attempting to to figure out a way to to make that project work ultimately with time lapse uh and changing economics we're here with a different project now um but again want to express our sincere uh appreciation uh from everyone in in Princeton that did their best over the course of a good year to try to figure out how to how to make that work um we're here for a 4unit uh compliant project uh without any variances uh as Mr leco and the professionals laid out there are a couple issues that we we found out about uh uh in in recent weeks and we're happy to address here tonight uh particularly uh the Ada accessibility of the space uh we've taken a look at that and have a uh I think a very simple solution to to clarify and remove the obstacles essentially so they uh um the users of that space will have no problem getting in or out and looking forward to walking the board through that we'll also go through the open space uh requirement where it is and what how each piece of it functions whether it's a private balcony for a unit or the shared open space particularly the space that Mr leco indicated that is adjacent to the parking area you know we do Envision that to be the kind of guest space if you're having guest for a barbecue that's kind of the place where you would congregate it's close to and accessible from the parking area we'll go through and and explain how that works um we've got three professionals that you'll hear from tonight uh our architect Marina our civil engineer uh Jim calik and we brought in George jakar he's our traffic uh expert to talk about the the the Turning motions when we met with staff before submitting this uh we had extensive discussions about getting in and out of that um the five part uh excuse me the five space portion of this site and put a lot of work into making sure that we could show that we'll talk through the Ada space as well but our goal was to make sure that we could do this in a way that made sense uh and had the most limited Interruption uh to the sidewalk and uh we we hope you'll agree that the the Turning templates and the the work we've done there uh proves that out U they're we're excited to include at least two Make Ready parking spaces because this is a 4unit building um it is a little interesting with the makeup of that few spaces about who is going to have an electric car and we're uh willing to talk with the board about putting more in or where but want to make sure we've got the flexibility that we're not excluding tenants that don't have electric vehicles just yet with the number of parking spaces that we have uh also um yes Madam chairwoman uh some good uh catches uh in particular Mr do mis's report about some species that should be and will be uh substituted out from non-natives to native plants absolutely we'll do that uh excellent suggest sus about um root protection apparatus for the some of the things along the street all great ideas that we're happy to endorse and and uh and include uh in the in the final compliance uh project here Ryan yes there anything in Mr Dober msk's report that you objected to uh I'll not the first comment was just we really wish there would be more trees um we wish to uh we we'll we'll certainly work with him if we can find other places the original the the the based on the number of tree replacement required we've already proposed a partially uh a payment in Li um but beyond that all the technical requests that he's done uh we're we're uh in agreement with okay uh I also just note then before we get into our presentation uh with the open space for for the users and and occup here we've proposed there actually is a significant reduction in impervious coverage from the the Cent Cent um state of the site or the prior use and we're we're happy to be able to introduce that uh net reduction in in coverage uh for uh you know for the environment and for the neighborhood um so with that um I don't if it's easiest to have our three experts uh um sworn in at once uh yes please yes and then we'll we'll qualify them as they testify excellent and I'm I'm being corrected by the way if I said 1400 is almost 19900 squ ft uh of reduction so thank you for team for correcting me on my my summary there so uh Mr jacamar kamik and Miss rabina I guess we can have you you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony about to give be the truth yes I do those or affirms could you please stay your full name and spell your last names Marina Rina last name r u b i n a George Jack m j a c q e m a r t thank you and James kamalak c h m i e l a k thank you thank you uh before we introduce our uh exhibits uh Mr be if you want to um briefly I know you've testified before this board many times but give the board the benefit of your credentials and confirm your your license so I can have you accepted as a expert in architecture this evening yes um I am a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey in the state of California and I have a dual master's degree in architectural and Structural Engineering from the University of California Berkeley um and I have um testified in front of this and other boards before hopefully that will allow me to be admitted we accept your qualifications thank you thank you thank you so much and um if it's all right we've submitted some uh slides we like to Mark as our one exhibit A1 uh it is intended to be 16 slides uh there was a question raised about one of the details that it we have put at the end a 17th slide if we're going to be showing a detail of the Ada sign if that's needed and that would be so work yes and Brian if you could send me a a absolutely that thank you Marina um I think we're looking at slide one here is a rendering of the building we want to start uh taking us through the project absolutely so so um this is the view of um the 3D model that represents our um design for this project where you could see um the left hand side has the um open parking and then the building in the middle and then um entrance in the center with um Landscaping in front uh thank you uh oh yeah keep going great um so as we can see here this site has kind of an interesting shape with a little bit of a corner missing um where it is adjacent to cop cycle and another interesting feature is how close this is located to um the Spring Street Garage um yep so we are located in the RB zone of the former burrow and we're the very last property at the end of that zone adjacent to the central business district and uh this is the site plan um this is slightly modified from the site plan that this is a site plan and um architectural ground floor plan that is a little bit modified from what we submitted to reflect some of the comments that we have received and thank you so much Ryan for zooming in um so as I'm talking hopefully Ryan will be pointing to things so um on the left hand side um as you come you see three parking spaces um to one sort of straight ahead of you and two parking spaces to the right hand side and as you could see we added the EV ready notation those are the um two parking spaces that Ryan mentioned in his introduction would be EV ready and then if one were to park in the little parking lot they would um walk up to the front door um and then there's kind of a little lobby with mailbox boxes as you come in and then um there are four entrances to all individual units that are located um Justin looks like he has a question yeah yeah sorry to cut in Marina um just can you or Ryan make sure our office gets this since this is modified uh from the other one absolutely thank you so the I will point out the modifications thus far the modification that I mentioned was the labeling of the EV parking uh so then when you enter um the next modification is the color uh coated the the slightly different green um indicating the 5 foot passageway that leads you to the required Bike Park bike parking bike parking has been indicated at that location previously uh so all the four doors to all the four units are off this main Central hallway and they're kind of in a fan pattern I would say so all of the three units that have ground floor spaces they have um living room spaces kitchens and bathrooms located um on the ground floor I not 100% sure which report mentioned that these are uh powder rooms but they're actually bathrooms they include showers I'm blinking in one of the reports they were called half bathrooms but they're are actually full bathrooms and then these units have individual stairs that lead to the second floor unit unit four is a little bit different where the entrance is located off the same hallway looks the same but it's a unit that's located exclusively it's a flat on the third floor and it has kind of a u a little bit of a Rapunzel stair going up and um a little individual elevator um because it's kind of difficult to bring groceries all the way up to the third floor um there is off the hallway there's a recycling trash room that is located thank you for pointing that out and then that has a side door that's easy to take the trash out um on pickup days uh let's see so on the right hand side the Ada parking shows the car and the striped portion and um we had kind of a scheme prior to this presentation where we were relying on somebody having to push a button and having an electronic operated gate but it seems like it's just too complicated and doesn't seem to be as easy and clear to operate so we have eliminated that so there is a very straightforward we'll show a three-dimensional view of this straightforward entrance into the parking spot and um there's a required um three foot passageways definitely provided from the striped loading area that leads up the ramp so this is important to note that that you see where it says 22 ft that's a sloping up to the front door portion that leads up to the main floor of the building um so that's a modification on this plan and then the uh third modification in one of the reports um there was a suggestion that we provide a pathway or stepping stones or some kind of a clear access towards the open space which we added and um I think that is all the changes on this plan I don't think so I that that is it Marina I'll just note um a couple other comments um uh want to thank the the Professionals for reminding us that uh this type of project is eligible for municipal uh garbage pickup rather than private um much appreciated um but with the the intention of the of the applicant is to have uh their employe es bring the um buckets out to the street from the trash room here uh and then return them uh that was uh one of the one of the questions and one of the um you know how that would work and that's would be one of the maintenance operations of of the applicant uh for the for the property um yeah one other point worth mentioning is right above the straight um parking spaces uh David has a question David yeah I'm sorry Marina I just I don't know if I zoned out for a second or if your explanation about the handicapped parking space was uh not entirely clear but you've gotten rid of the gate entirely is that correct this is there will be this is to be continue that's a really good question you didn't miss anything this is just the floor plan version of it the next slide Ryan all right okay I'm sorry Jesus we will skipping ahead Mr Cohen you're a correct we have a slide that will show that more clearly but uh we're not glossing over it but yes that is that is the response is to remove the gate and okay and then in regard to your statement Ryan about the trash I understand having the employees take it out to the curb but it still doesn't answer the question of will you use Municipal service or will you have a private hauler who will then take the collect the trash at the curb uh my understanding is that uh under the municipal Services act that this this size project um would be eligible for municipal services so if if we we honestly I think didn't realize that at the time of application um if we're eligible for that we would like to take advantage um it's a detail we'd be happy to work out with the staff whether it complies or not we believe now it does thanks for clarifying yep and one additional um comment that I would like on this um site plan is that although not labeled as shared open space um it is shared open space uh where the little stepping stones are um because of the the the little missing bump out of the property that particular is not allowed to technically be designated because it's not wide enough at that location but it is de facto additional shared open space we can't call it that because there's no um you see that it where where it kind of Narrows down we can't technically counted but it is okay thank you so let's um I have a couple of quick questions too um can you confirm how many um uh bikes are accommodated by the indoor bike parking so we're required to provide four indoor bike spaces and we have details of how we're going to accommodate them so on this plan we're showing four in real there's room for at least six but given that the requirement is for interior um we're providing those um at that location bike but in reality we believe that six will fit okay and at this time uh no plan for outside bike parking there is we're supposed to be providing an exterior uh bike parking where our civil engineer will um show it on the site plan where it goes on the site plan okay and the um the trash and recycling room um I think I saw in the plans that you had you were there would there was room in there for four recycling buckets meaning oh I can see five here uh anyway are you accommodating or expecting each unit will use one recycling bucket that's a great question because because that's never enough for my pretty small household and I just I just want to make sure there's room enough in there you know to maybe double up those I I can see on the left side that you have one in front of another so if there's room for seven or eight I I think you're we I think the residents will be much better served by trying to get everything into one recycling bucket every two weeks yeah I think we will do um our best to accommodate that the recycling buckets are provided by the municipality oh sorry not the municipality M County and they're the size that they are so yeah we'll we'll um I'm not actually 100% sure how many will they provide per unit do they just give you one um not I think you can take you can request more than you I'm so well maybe David knows the answer to that or prob be since her hand is up but um uh you can go get a second one if you need it I don't know whether they give one per household and then uh I I honestly I inherited than they gave and and I have an old one that I'm really lucky and I'm very excited about but I don't know if that that's a we we we'll make sure that there's room for many and there's another comment about room for um if anyone wants to do a curb site or Organics through a private hauler that we'd make sure that we' accommodate that uh as well um in the room yeah good great um Miss just so you know the the new recycling uh buckets from County are much much bigger than the old yeah oh yeah and um after paly I actually have one little comment okay um I thank you I actually just had a question on the the bike parking again um and I would just note that it looks like um these units will probably have more than one each unit will have probably two up to two or three residents um and you know each individual there would have a bike so if it's possible to consider adding more protected bike parking um you know a accounting for say two bikes per unit that would make more sense um but uh I think Marina you're going to continue with talking about some exterior bike parking as well our um engineer Jim will when he shows the site plan yes he absolutely to that point I think we'll we'll work to get as many in there I think my my understanding of the um both the we've meet met the calculations but the the big concern is making sure the hallways near it are big enough to get a bike in and out so our goal will be to you know make sure we're hearing that we can get as many bikes in there um uh that will be compliant but we've made a Arrangements in the surrounding area that you can get them in and out so we'll leave it to Marina to work with staff to make sure we can I don't say cram as many bikes in there we you know we thought we could even fit six we'll take another look to see if that could be a bigger number uh in addition to the temporary bike space that's uh our engineer will show us uh up front and there could be some exterior as well as long as it's undercover right that that's a really good point that if if we think this is a good idea we have that shared space that's not allowed to be called shared space um that one could um put a canopy and have um additional bike parking I I would say if it's exter it's important to also have some security great so I I'm gonna take this time that look Ryan made my day today by letting everybody know that um number five plastic is now accepted by Mercer County so i i w I am so excited I okay let's just all take a minute thank you Ryan for letting us know I am just beyond excited so pardon my joy today that we'll need another another space for all the yogurt buckets uh in a in a sixth recycling I mean no kidding that's who who else is that I I Marina me too okay let's keep going anyway so okay so this is a different view of the site um slightly outdated computer model but pretty close and let's Mar if you could identify what Slide the number of the slide you're on so this is SL number five this is a view of the 3D model where it's a little more towards the front where you see the central entry into the building and it has uh steps down to the left and ramp down to the right um and this is beginning to show show um the Landscaping in front and as you will see a more open connection to the Ada parking on the right hand side I think we're ready for slight um PIV still has her hand up was there a question sorry by mistake do you there we go okay okay sorry about that okay problem so um I'm gonna walk everybody through the second floor plan which is on the left hand side right here in this picture so in green that's why that's why it is slide six yes so the open space is satisfied in two ways we saw a ground floor open space interestingly enough private outdoor space on ground floor actually doesn't seem to be um allowed to be included in the calculations um however we have provided calculations and confirmed um with Dan Weissman that this is done correctly that these balconies on the left hand side marked in green are um helping us meet the usable open space requirement and um so as you everybody inside their unit 1 two and three they have internal stairs as they arrive to the second floor of their unit they each have um two bedrooms and then unit number four continues through their Rapunzel stair keep going up to their third floor there was a question in one of the reports how do you get on the front balcony of unit number four there's a sliding door there it's a little bit hard to see but there it is um so even though it doesn't have a swing because it doesn't swing uh but it's a it's a door that allows one to um go on the balcony great on the right hand side of the same slide number six we have um the top unit which is located it's a flat it's located on the third floor over the other units and um there are two more balconies on this level when you arrive um on this level there's open space that um U main kind of public space of the unit that looks back and then there are um two bedrooms that are located kind of in the corners um interestingly enough this unit also has a roof deck but um that roof deck is not allowed to be counted toward open space can't tell you why but it's not but it does exist uh so I think that explains this slide great so now um we're going to go back one more time so remember we had that um open space conversation so we have multiple other Open Spaces that are not able to be counted under the ordinances as the Open Spaces but um they are for example the entire private yard of unit number two doesn't contribute to anything I can't really explain why um and neither is the private yard of unit number one uh so this is slide number seven correct so um what I was saying to the response that yeah that where it says 22 feet a little down a little down yeah there you go so that could be potentially a good SP but if we wanted to introduce a covered and um protected additional bike parking that could be a good spot for it if you ask me and we are um way way um under the impervious coverage that currently exists so this would not cause any issues or any problems in terms of imperious coverage should we wanted to provide additional um covered parking okay hopefully I I know we talked about in the first slide but then this piece here would be uh for this is U shared open space be used by uh visitors and guests on the ground floor or even the the third floor uh for barbecuing inacessible from the the parking area for their guests and for parties and things correct so there we envision there being a garden wall and we're envisioning there be a garden gate which would not be locked and it would be SE through so you could um go visit and um enjoy the open space and I guess the concern to have to have a a gate and um and the fence was be more for privacy for the residents rather than to make it seem like it was exclusive to any one of them uh correct it's also kind of um I feel it's a way to um tie the building into the landscape when the building has kind of sidewalls and things that come out of it it engages and creates outdoor rooms which actually feel more like livable spaces outside um however if you think about it um we have the um all the units in this building have um private outdoor spaces in one shape or another um where there are not um able to be counted as private outdoor spaces for various reasons like the beautiful roof deck um however um we believe that um we're meeting all the required um um all the requirements with this space as it's sized properly and lots of people have questions yes Mr odonnell and then Mr Cohen thank you uh are there Gates or uh fences separating the uh unit one private yard and unit two private yard and the unit to in open space correct you are okay yes in the um in one of the previous projects we had um somebody if you guys remember asked um to make sure that there's a way to get from one to the other in case firefighters need to run around um so that's what those gates are there for okay thank you Mr Cohen and then Mr leco yeah so uh quick question uh I'm guessing the windows in unit one adjacent to the unit one private yard are actually sliders as well um is that decided on that one yet okay I mean I think it makes a lot of sense because the private yard will not be very usable for the unit unless they have direct access to it um so that's a suggestion and then I want to comment on you know Marina's very gentle suggestion that because every unit has private out open space um perhaps we don't need to be sticklers for the idea that there's this shared open space uh and I wanted to support that notion I mean honestly no no one is ever going to use that shared open space except the residence of unit 3 which directly gives out onto it because everybody else has their own private open space why would they bother to use the shared open space yeah I mean you would hope they wouldn't but if they would they'd be looking right that you know they'd be right next to unit three which doesn't which is the only one that on that floor that doesn't have its own private open space I'm agreeing with you David I think it's think it's unfair to the people in unit three and it's just a strange it's it's a it's a figment of our code um but I think the reality of the situation is going to be everybody's going to have their own private open space and it's going to work fine yeah um Mr leco thank you madam chair uh this isn't meant to be a gotcha question but especially since it was just kind of repeated again I think Marina you said every unit has its own private open space but what about unit three uh well um I think I did say almost everybody uh maybe I didn't but oh you said everybody oh yeah so yes poor unit 3 is a little bit deficient in that department yeah got it so and I certainly agree with counc going but to set this up as a shared open space that we acknowledge is really not shared I mean it seems like the relief to be requested would be a variance not necessarily calling the shared open space and then potentially having you know some sort of issue down the line that's just my two cents I think that's right yeah I'll I'll I'll just note that we we we did notice um for this meeting uh with the U ability for the board to Grant um Varian as it deems proper we probably would be agreeable with that if that's the board's preference uh to do that um uh we have designed it as as shared open space and and think it could be used that way but we we certainly yield to the board's and and perhaps reties um view of how that space would be used if I could jump in on that in what circumstances a a variance can be considered by a board when it's not part part of the notice um if it's if it's something that's being sought by the applicant it has to be part of the notice but it's something that comes out up during the hearing and something the board is interested in pursuing the board can do that without it having been noticed um and I just wanted to make that clear thank you Jerry that's helpful um Dan Weissman thank you uh just a couple of uh responses to uh Miss rina's questions I think she had um so roof space uh may be considered open space um usable open space which is defined in in the zoning regulations um roof space may be substituted uh for ground space provided that such roof space is available and readily accessible to all the occupants um this roof space wouldn't qualify because it's only accessible to unit 4 um so unless that's why we couldn't count it yep exactly so I just wanted to clarify that um and then um the other thing about common open space uh in the definition it's required to have a minimum uh Dimension which is 20 feet so that that's why that portion of that sidey yard uh is not able to count um and then one more just clarification again uh if if there is covered bike parking that would be uh attached exterior to the building with a canopy uh that canopy because it's attached to the building would need to meet the setbacks of 15 ft which at the corner of the building building uh in the top left corner by unit 3 uh that's at 15.1 ft um so just keep that in mind when considering where that uh covered bike parking may be located okay thank you so if I understand correctly that canopy and because this not a um for multif family you're not allowed to protrude into sidey yards like you are on a one and two family then um in order for it to be a covered canopy um hopefully in my understanding Dan's Point correctly that if it's closer to the end it will require variance am I understanding that correctly that's correct so it needs to be closer to the compact car parking spot is that your s yeah yes or potentially freestanding and at the accessory oh yeah I don't think the do accessory structures apply to multi family well they would not have the same setback um issue that the main structure does so there might be additional relief there right because like they could go on the other side where that number one is for example you see that likely get five feet of setback for that right again as Jerry said that's really useful that if um the board feels that this is important and would like to us to provide it I think we would have any any objections to that yeah and people with bikes need to be able to get there without squeezing between uh the two the cars there so there would need to be some kind of side walk you know to on this to the left of the of the not compact car yes exactly y yeah call full size car yes Mr anos okay yes uh Marina I I just wondering the recycling and refuge room do the tenants do they have access from the hallway into it yeah correct okay so um somebody with the the Ada tenant how did they get there is there a ramp there in between there you're absolutely right there are two levels because we have a difference between the inside and the outside and the upper portion is wheelchair accessible from the inside right so they could um be on the upper portion and use the the trash that's up there and the recycling that's right adjacent to it yep okay all right great thank you good question um any more questions for for slide number seven yeah go ahead okay oh I'm sorry Mr leco go Justin yes is I just want to follow up on councilman coh's question uh Marina when you said there might be sliding doors on unit one do you mean adjacent to the parking space or where the cursor kind of is right now I think David was suggesting where it says 11 feet that those would be sliding doors and I don't think that we have decided on that but I like that idea got it thank you right David am I understand that correctly okay great thank you uh slide number eight thank you so this is where we clarify that um although the gates look really nice and fancy it was a little complicated with electronic buttons and things um so we got um into simplifying this and got um rid of them um however as you could see the walls this is what I'm trying to uh talk about when we say I feel that it's nice to have kind of walls coming off the building and engaging um with the site and the landscape so that would be kind of a fence um and it would be a similar material that is um part of the building and and there is the car as you could see and then there's the striped portion and there's a very clear axis where you get out of the striped portion and you go straight to the ramp it's right there uh hopefully I'm explaining that correctly okay now on to the bike parking so we um see that there would be um here the way to store bicycles as you can see on the left um under the stair you put two bicycles kind of facing forward and then there's this super awesome um bracket this is a video that you could see on this website where you roll your bike you don't have to lifted and it goes up onto this bracket and it allows you to kind of swivel it back and forth um so we are showing two of them those are the four required um however as you can see there's plenty of space for additional ones yep and then um we were discussing the possibility of extra space um outside covered and Jim our civil engineer will discuss where the guest bike parking is currently proposed and I failed to mention that this is slide number nine sorry Jerry okay uh do we not have slide number eight oh yeah that was the Wich accessibility we just got to say that this was slight number eight yikes okay sorry about that okay uh and then that's the bike parking all right and I think the next slide was for Jim right it is so U um and there obviously should um Miss Marina is not going anywhere but if uh any any final questions for our architect before we go our next witness would be our civil testimony Mr Les go or you but my hand was still up but I do have a final question if we could go back to eight and again I'm not trying to to belabor this too much but so those back windows are clearly Windows there's no step down what you can't see behind the wall I believe there's two steps there so are those meant to be doors so they are one of them we were hoping would be operable and the reason is going to back to um Dan weissman's point that um when you're located right at the um ZB line actually I think steps may be allowed now that I'm thinking about it because they would be part of the egis passageway so we could add steps those those windows go all the way down to the ground um but the building is a little out of the ground at that point so um I like David Point David's point to um make those operable one of them making them a door and having access from that point that um that is possible but the Step will be in the setback but that is allowed because it's part of Eris got it so both those sets of Windows SL sliding we'll have one one portion that opens not not all of them but like one part of it yeah thank you that answers my question and I have a question about the slide M aniki said earlier might not and I might not understand this properly that there's one vehicle that would have to back out onto toan is that what we're talking about here how does how does this vehicle get I think that when we get to our um traffic engineer he will be able to discuss that right right yeah let's wait for Mr jacar to address that question yeah sorry yeah I I'm not provide traffic engineering testimony yes but we do not want you to Mr Cohen yeah so I I have one other question that I think is appropriate related to the architectural um which has to do with the um which unit or units might be suitable as an ADA unit because in my mind really the fourth unit the one that's on the third floor is the only one that really makes sense as an ADA unit because um there no internal stairs to the unit well there are to get to the roof but essentially a resident would be able to get to the living space and the bedrooms using the elevator uh and you know would not need to navigate stairs for any reason however this Ada parking space is so connected to unit one it's adjacent to unit one's private outdoor space you know the there's a doorway that comes right out from unit one to the um to the Loading area for the Ada space and so I don't know if I'm I'm guessing Marina you thought about this but I'd like to get a comment from the applicant on you know does unit one make sense as an ADA space and if not does it make sense to have the Ada parking so wide open to to unit one right so um it's definitely a balancing act trying to fit everybody with all the parking um given that we're having four units and the ordinance requires six parking spaces um um and we're literally next door to the municipal parking garage um if we were to for example suspend disbelief and not have this be a parking space at all and if we were to have um the you know four parking spaces and a striped Ada spot in the other lot um that would require variances however that would um be one one unit has one parking space and there's very clear um way to do it very straightforward very easy um wouldn't require any changes whatsoever um and um but again we are trying to do our best um and balance so the other Balancing Act is to not have and we worked with the staff on this not to have a really big wide gaping opening onto Tain um so what this does by sort of splitting them it makes it feel much more um kind of in scale and narrows the openings onto the um kind of Crossing The Pedestrian way so if I had my dream come true I wouldn't um be having six parking spaces for four units but that's what our ordinance requires and that's what we're providing um okay that's plenty of information for now I'm sure the board will want to talk about it a little bit when we get to deliberations um yeah I think that um happy to answer any other questions uh mam chair you're on mute sorry about that go ahead Justin yeah and just one last question and this honestly this reminds me of a question sprb would have asked if we still had it um but uh just uh uh maybe not a question but a suggestion that the one of the balconies on the second floor is adjacent to that unit three it actually shares a wall uh with the bathroom and it looks like it might be able to be rearranged to allow for that balcony to uh go to that unit um obviously this isn't required if if you had someone that wanted four balconies and a roof deck that's your prerogative um but was that considered uh to have that balcony go to unit 3 which does not currently have private open space yes we did consider it and um this is the option that we chose got it thanks okay any other questions for Marina Rubina architect okay um thank you I'm here in case anybody else has questions I'm just going to turn my things off but here in case I need to come back all right thanks Marina uh Mr Kennedy who's next thanks so much our next witness will be Jim calik our civil engineer he's also a planner but uh um he'll be doing our civil engineering testimony tonight Jim if you could uh briefly I know you're before this board quite often uh give the board the benefit of your your license and credentials so I can have you accepted as an expert here tonight sure again James uh kamalak licensed professional engineer here in New Jersey U been practicing civil site planning for over 25 years many projects here in this area um and I have bachelor's degree from uh rers College of Engineering and uh have been qualified before this board previously in the same capacity thanks Mr Kik we accept your qualifications thank you thanks so much so James if you could we've got a a clip of the site plan here and the uh bulk table want to quickly take the board through got a bit of a head start on the site plan with Marina's slides but uh to go through the the specifics here sure so for the most part we've already got the overall layout um of the property here Froning on North toan Street on the right we have the larger parking area down on the uh lower part of the plan the south portion um which does include one compact uh parking stall and the ability for vehicles um to pull forward and uh exit in a forward movement which our traffic engineer will speak to um we discussed the private yard areas at the rear uh here on the site plan in terms of the shared Open Spaces in the sidey yard and the rear yard the building does respect all of the setbacks as Illustrated on the zoning table and the other bulk requirements where the minimum lot area is 8,000 square ft this particular lot is just over 9,400 Square ft we are complying with respect to the f um as well as the setbacks as I mentioned uh the building height as well and also with the um maximum uh coverage on the lot which would be a maximum building coverage so we do comply with the 30% as it stands as well as the open space um this plan also shows utilities all coming from North to Lane Street as shown on our you know sewer Services Water Services Etc which all exist and will require just slightly um uh upsizing in a few instances there but it would pretty much follow the existing condition as well along the frontage of the property um there was some discussion in the engineering review memo about possibly the duplicity of the sidewalk which goes along the front facade of the building in particular from the large parking lot to the main front door and it was asked can that be eliminated because at the street there is also a sidewalk that's beyond the RightWay line basically off of our property um maybe Ryan if you can scroll back to slide seven the color Rand ing I think that's a better picture of this issue one more uh back again see one here yeah this one so so as you can see here with if you're looking at the rendering on the left um with our our private sidewalk it's really the desire of the applicant to maintain their own Ingress and egress to that front door from the parking area on property in the most direct way possible um to avoid a situation where people are carrying groceries and they have to walk to the street and go around the corner to the front door and then go up several stairs to get to the front door which was would result in following that suggestion in the memo so you know we do see that they are in somewhat proximity but you know the applicant really prefers this Ingress to the front door from both sides if if the board is you know still open to that we think it makes sense and it would be the most safe condition um for the occupants of the building and then Ryan if you can go back to the site plan slides um we'll talk about it in a little bit more detail but outside the front door we are showing a um short-term parking stall which is a single um parking spot that's required um outside the front door and we have a zoomed in version of that in a subsequent slide here so what we did on this exhibit in red you can see where we just rotated that bicycle 90° um and we also are demonstrating the fact that we have a five foot wide access uh to that bicycle area we just widen the sidewalk there at The Landing in the in the vicinity of that front door in order to facilitate um that parking space you know which we're providing what the requirement is as well as uh the detail of the loop to the right which we can show on a compliance plan um as to what that you know would look like in this orientation so um that's that's what our exterior um short-term parking would be relative to the plan also mentioned previously because of the extensive amount of building and parking areas and drive aisles that were located on the property previously this configuration um results in a significant amount more of Green Space almost 1,00 Square ft of additional perious area that was previously impervious so we think that there would be you know some um qualitative improvements relative to you know minimization of that impervious surface since it is somewhat substantial with this design uh and a smaller building that's being proposed in terms of the Landscaping we've prop uh provided a landscape plan here on the left where you can see that we're providing shrubs in and around the building as well as um ground covers we specified lopy we can certainly switch that out with a native um plant material suggested by Mr dolber milski and then um our plan does demonstrate that 11 trees would be removed uh on this particular property and we've located six noting the fact that um you know we do have the elevated uh parking deck immediately behind the building so we have a 25 foot wide or deep um rear yard area so we'll work with him if there's a possibility to put one or two more trees on the property the applicant you know has no objections to that we just um want to have them placed appropriately so that they can they can flourish and it's not overcrowded with trees because the the open space areas around the building we do want those open and available obviously for the tenants to use so we just don't want them um necessarily overcrowded with too many trees in the rear yard but we're certainly willing to to make that adjustment and then if Jim before we before we get off this slide because I think it shows it quite well uh one of the comments um from the engineering uh planning memo uh was excuse me engineering zoning memo was curb stops for these two spaces here that's something that uh we agree with and don't have an objection to yes we'll include that and these would be the two spaces that we' propos to be the uh initially the EV Make Ready spaces as well yes that's correct okay so I didn't mean to disrupt but good time to see it on that slide another Improvement I would just say before I go on is we are connecting all of the the roof leader drains uh as shown on this plan we're extending um a drain pipe from the right of way which um doesn't currently pick up all of that water not necessarily from the property and getting that uh into the right of way drainage system as shown on the plan Jim apologies I'm gonna interrupt you again I see we have a hand up sorry yes um Miss pearlmutter you're on mute um I'd like to go back to a couple of questions this kind of relates to the uh green uh checklist the green development checklist as well um you mentioned uh previous uh you meet PR the Imp standards but has thought been given to put in some pervious to use perious pavement and if if so could would you consider doing it well um we we haven't considered incorporating that as a as a BMP mainly because of the substantial reduction in impervious surface almost 2,000 square feet that had impermeable material before and we're and given that substantial reduction um there will be a significant uh improvement with converting those areas not just to perious Pavement but actually to vegetated grass so we're going from pavement to grass in the sidey yards in the rear yards and we we saw that as a benefit um over a constructed pavement um that's an engineering control that has you know maintenance issues when you know the ultimate um pervious nature will still be provided with plant material well I'm not sure one is a substitute for the other but we can talk about that later um also uh you mentioned you haven't mentioned but uh the green Che development checklist mentioned something about a cool roof uh and you say efforts will be made to do that what kind of efforts are you going to what do you think about doing there what are your plans uh possibly Marina might be able to speak to that only because it's building related um with that roof plan in the outdoor space so I just might ask you to either defer that question to her or just hold it she comes back yeah I wasn't sure Marina yeah turned on it's a good good question so Marina can you speak briefly to the cool roof uh plans that you have in mind um at this point in time we do not have plans for cool roof however um if budget allows we always try to consider um Within budget possibilities everything we can do um so when when we're specifying roofing materials we will absolutely take that into consideration but again it's a it's going to be a budget decision uh it'll save money for your tenants that's for sure um understood yeah owners and obviously from an environmental standpoint if you can put in more trees we certainly would like to see that um and then uh what about bird safe glass are you going to be using bird safe glass and on the checklist problem with some of the ways you answer this checklist is you just say efforts will be made too but don't specify what the efforts are yeah but I I think the answer is the same that um we're very much aware and attuned to environmental questions and bird related um things are important however bird safe glass is not inexpensive so if we're able to afford it as part of the project we absolutely will investigate that and look at it um I have done projects with bird save glass um but it's not cheap so if we can afford it we absolutely will there are some aftermarket um products for making pay's bird safe and you know whichever approach is taken um it is pretty darn important with Windows this big you know these are these are really sizable windows and you're going to have um you know you're going to have collisions for sure if steps are not taken to prevent them um we would definitely look forward to learning more about the aftermarket um opportunities well you can Google it I will absolutely do that however um having done um major fritted glass projects it is incredibly cost prohibitive so I'm not sure if we can afford it but um I definitely hear your concern thanks anything else uh Freddy uh not at this time um and I'm not sure whether the E the PEC memo was the only one I think there might have been other other memos too that remarked on the the um in some cases sort of cursory or um not super responsive uh answers to the Green Building checklist and I just want to point out that's a new document it's it's the PC has put a lot of work in it into it and it is really thorough and it's um informative and it can provide guidance and it really should be something that we you know we hope and we know you some of you are you know come back again and again to the board in the future you know please use it as a resource um because I you know you should find it helpful um Mr leco yes thank you madam chair and to that point uh actually when I was talking to the board during the master plan consistency review about the Green Building checklist one of the things I mentioned was that the PEC alongside staff worked very hard to make those questions more of yes or no questions rather rather than ones that people talk around um and in this case uh the column for yes or no wasn't filled out so uh just want to point that out and please in the future fill that out so you know we get those direct answers even when the answer is no um but that was do better do better next it's it it is a a new form and that one that came into existence actually while this project came into existence so we we actually very much appreciate that it was frankly deemed complete and allowed to proceed we're we're with it too and it is to all of your points it's a lot of work who went into it and is an excellent guide book so much much appreciated that it's there um and uh uh we're learning how to how to work with it just one comment on that the PEC is actually coming out with a document which will give hopefully give some helpful hints on how to how to fill it out manual much appreciated and uh I'm sure staff will will Point those of us who are here ly to it because obviously we can use some of that guidance so much thank you for the efforts on that anything else anything else Justin yeah I actually had a question uh that just came up after um so uh Jim while you're on this slide can you zoom in and show where the Ada parking sign is we were showing it mounted here on the building in front to the left in front of the striped area thank you um so there's a half wall or 3/4 wall or whatever you want Justin just a cut to the chase on this um if you go Ryan to the slide that has the the bicycle loop I I just made a note here this is more where we would anticipate having it at the center of the stall so that it has greater visibility um in the context of the Ada parking stall perfect thank you yeah and Madam chair I have a question yes um this reduction in perious by 1900 square fet is that from the prior approval or from the house that was originally there it's from the original um configuration the parking lot the drive aisles the parking stalls it's from the it's from the approval it's not from the original house it is from the original House doesn't sounded David yeah yeah it's from the existing conditions plan however it's not a house it was a mixed used building so from the original building yes I see okay um Justin your hand is still up did you have anything else okay um Jim I believe we we were on the landscape plan and I can maybe Zoom just wanted to scroll to the right and just say from a lighting standpoint we we work to to provide Lighting in the critical areas at doorways with um canopy fixtures down lit uh cut off canopy fixtures as well as uh ballards in and around The Pedestrian areas and then one um parking lot fixture um that's also cut off and at a very low height of 12 feet in that five vehicle parking area so pretty straightforward and generally consistent with the prior approval so in just quickly to the Landscaping in Mr Dober milky's um memo suggested adding some trees and specifically some Evergreens which I think would um would appeal very much to the um occupants of those units that face uh well to the left in this picture is that two and three I think units two and three um uh you know to help with screening I know there's going to be a a fence um maybe you can talk a little bit more about that as well although I do anticipate this will come to the landscape committee some point in the future um but one of the features of the lot prior to everything um you know being changed on this property was a very very large hemlock tree and I know we're not going to plant uh hemlocks for at least two reasons but it would be it would be nice to see Evergreen some evergreen trees on this and I think there's there's room for them that I think Mr were you suggesting Dan um Arbor VY yeah good good evening yes I was actually along the rear uh or the left side on this view uh property which would do fine even with the even with uh the the big giant parking garage right there yes they they're they're tolerant of shade to some degree you know for this situation I think it's really good spot for them I mean we we shy away from American Arbor body because of deer foraging and I think it's pretty doubtful with all the fencing and everything going on deer will ever be here so this is a good opportunity to use that tree yeah I think that's a good solution and previously the garage was a major screening element in that backyard area which no longer exists with this plan so that'll provide some screening of the parking deck at an elevated height too so I think we agree that that's a good solution good thanks Jim unless you have any more comments on uh notes on slide 11 with the lighting plan uh moving back to slide 12 which was the the short-term bike details I believe you went through that um and uh um unless there are other questions for our civil engineer our next test our next um witness would be our uh traffic consultant um Mr Weissman has his hand up so let's hear what Dan has to ask before we go on Dan thank you madam chair uh just is requesting that uh due to the construction of the driveway aprons and utilities going into the public right of way that the public sidewalk along the entire lot Frontage be reconstructed um you may be able to see it well on slide 10 um but there's an awful lot of interruptions going on there between all of that work um so just wonder if there's any objection from the applicant for that no we're we're agreeable to that I just failed to mention it in the testimony great thank you would that be after the completion of construction yes we would anticipate once all the crossings are complete um it would leave a a new condition along that Frontage okay thank you now perhaps with that I'll I'll introduce uh Jor jakar our uh from bfj planning to talk about uh the vehicle traffic uh ingressing and um we do need to qualify him although we're very familiar with Mr jacar if you could briefly give the board the benefits of your uh credentials and expertise so we could have you uh qualified again as an expert here tonight yes sir uh good evening um yeah I have a civil engineering degree from the poly Technic Institute in loisan Switzerland and um Masters in urban planning from Stanford I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey and other states as well and I have uh presented in fromont of this planning board for many years AC your qualifications oops maybe you didn't say quite enough go ahead no no that's fine thank you thank you um I think in terms of the parking Arrangement that we're looking at you know we there basically two choices one is uh where all the cars would be parked next to each other perpendicular to the sidewalk and they would all Drive in forward and back out you know in Reverse into the street to get out and and that's obviously not the most desirable layout and um you as you know it tends it can be hazardous and we have a good example in princ along University Place near the Barda theater and you know if you pull out of a parking spot there and you know Mr anos mentioned a van if you're next to a van not necessarily if you're in the van if you're next to a van you have very difficult uh visibility site conditions so that's why in this case we opted for this particular layout that you can see here uh where we have five places one compact space and so I'm talking about side 13 and the next slides show how we laid this out so that each maneuver each car can exit with the nose first um so that's basically was the main goal of this design we picked a relatively large standard car and you can see how the cars can maneuver in a way where they all can exit with the nose first doesn't mean necessarily that everyone will do it but we design it such that um they can do it andely for the spaces that are spaces four and five uh it's more or less guaranteed that they will exit with the nose first you can see here how that will happen so the the advantage of the layout that we have now is that visually you see only you know you don't have this big open space with five cars parked next to each other it's a more restricted space there's more Landscaping in in front of the parking area and we do have a safer condition in the sense that the cars are likely all of them are likely to exit with the nose first now in regards to the uh Ada space there's not enough room for that vehicle to make a hammerhead turn and so yes we that vehicle will have to exit in reverse and as I said you know yes it could be a van if it's an ADA van uh but they have in this case because there are no vehicles parked next to it they have you know a better condition than what we have for instance on University Place near the mcara theater so we could not avoid that for that particular location and it is it is an usual condition we have several examples along this section of North Tain Street there's a more recent home on the opposite side from this project that has two parking spaces I think it's two if not more where the vehicles back out uh so for the Ada space we could not avoid that and I don't think it's any you know particularly hazardous situation especially because it's only one vehicle that exits this so in terms of the driver has relatively good sight conditions to the left and the right when the driver pulls out of that spot so that's basically all the presentations that I have I think from traffic impact point of view there's really no issue that it's a very very low traffic generator uh I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have Mr anos and then Mr Cohen yeah thank you Madame chair uh George can you can you explain how much uh sideline that uh the backing traffic have especially where you have that g INF frence on the right side of it I'm concerned about pedest are on the sidewalk like sudden emergence of the of the backing traffic right well we're talking about the Ada space right yes yes yeah so the driver you know in the Ada space will back out and that driver depending on the vehicle uh that driver will either use the rear view mirrors to look out or turns around and looks around and the other part you know now more and more Vehicles they have an um a camera that shows you what's happening behind so it is something that you know is very common uh it may not be ideal in this situation but it is definitely very common and and if you look at the I I also just looked at the the partial that's north of here it's it's somewhat open so that it's not a question of sight distance it's more the cone of vision that the driver has can see um the activity on the sidewalk north and south of the driveway to some degree and it's not like you have you know again I'm I'm using the University Place example you know where you have you could have a van next to your parket so we don't have that condition that we have on University Place and so in that sense I think it is a safe Arrangement uh it may not be ideal but it is something that's safe and it's very common George is is uh is street parking permitted on this side of Tain uh I think it's permitted on the other side if I remember correctly that's correct thank you yes mren parking SPAC is on the other side yeah uh just a couple of questions um number one I I feel like there's a turning movement diagram that you didn't show that was probably the most challenging um parking space which is the the middle one facing the parking garage um not the the one next to the compact uh parking space and I yeah it's here number two this oh I didn't I'm sorry I guess I missed that slide that's that is the most difficult it's multip multiple movements right yes it's well it's no one back yeah yeah you're right it's one more forward and then backwards yes okay yeah okay thanks I'm sorry I missed that um the other question I have is relative to the Ada space I mean if I were going to use that space I would back into the space so I could go out forward and I know not every driver feels comfortable backing into a parking space but the question is are there any sort of modifications that you would recommend to the sidewalls um you know that give some enclosure there or any other suggestions you would have to facilitate that movement to of backing into the parking space to sort of encourage people to do that if they're if they feel comfortable doing it it's an interesting question and um you know the what we call diagonal backup parking is becoming a preferred backup design and um I was not too long ago in Maryland and Washington DC and you see more backup diagonal parking in those areas than we see in New Jersey and New York yeah um but as you said there there's a number of drivers that are not very happy you know doing the back out uh backin parking um so that's that's a difficulty I don't think we could do anything uh to facilitate that back out maneuver could we um Ryan maybe go back to one of the visuals that shows the back the the yeah the Ada space there was a perspective of the drawing maybe that's the best one to look at there you go yeah yeah so the and that doesn't show it here on the right of this drawing that's low Landscaping so that's relatively good condition for anyone backing out they can see you know the to the side and the same on the other side on on the the left of the vehicle that's backing out now if they back in there I don't know that there's anything one can do to facilitate the back in manuo um um you know we opening the widening the opening I think would not change that uh because the driver still has to get into that spot would be marked on the pavement yeah um okay so I don't know that we can do that other than maybe I'm satisfied with that answer I just wanted to wanted to probe a little bit um okay that's all I have thank you Mr Lesco and then Miss Wilson Anderson thank you madam chair um I kind of had a similar question uh if you could go to the site utility plan that might be the best one to look at so it looks like those or either way it looks like the parallel spaces are directly across from the lip of the driveway so a van would be able to maneuver kind of its nose in lip of the driveway and it's rear bumper if there are cars in those two spaces yeah I mean depends on the size of the van you know we tested the car that we tested I think is 16 and 1 12 ft long you know that's a fairly standard it's I think it was Tesla S so it's a relatively large car uh and that can make the maneuver you know with the two cars parked in space um I guess it's one and two you know perpendicular the what we call the EV where spaces I'm sorry I'm talking more about the Ada space my apology okay so an ADA van would be able to yeah oh yeah drive in and out there yes with the spaces across okay yes um let me see I have an street view open here um is there a reason why there aren't turning templates for this space but for the others honestly the the reason we had we brought in Mr Shamar was following our initial pre-application meeting we wanted to narrow down the entrance to the larger parking lot to avoid a larger driveway and to avoid um more interruptions to the sidewalk and engaged him to show that that would work rather than any concern about getting in or out it was a function of how how can we narrow that um this driveway here and to preserve as much sidewalk as possible uh for uh for the streetcape so it honestly wasn't a concern that was on our radar until uh a few days ago so the the the reason for the templates was to show that we could narrow this area down and we had gone through several redesigns of this parking area to uh you know essentially preserve as much sidewalk as possible along two lane yeah but we can you know we can do the autoturn check for a van that enters and and backs out of there you know to verify it and um to make sure that that works we'll be happy to do that and submit it to the staff uh to show that it does work and if not you know maybe that we may have to widen the opening a little bit thank you uh Claudia y yes I'm not sure if my question overlapped a little bit with Mr Lesco but I'm looking at the two spaces that are parallel to the building and I did not see and perhaps I missed something uh whether you had the um the diagram for those cars and how they would be um would they be backing out of the spaces or do they have a turning radius out of those spaces yes here you can see space number four yeah yeah there's enough room to back out you can see the wheels go all the way to the end of the pavement and then they can back out yes so we designed that space you know we tried to uh kind of reduce the opening as much as possible so that visually you don't see a big parking area at the same time we needed enough space for vehicles to make the Hammerhead turn okay uh Victor yes uh George uh on the architectural plan um that was shown I guess the rendition of the ads space uh it shows uh the occupant coming out in between the half wall and the vehicle packed right there so I guess uh back to the question that uh Justin asked if it was a van that was packed how much space will such a person have between the vehicle and that new wall um if again it makes that accessible are almost uh uh inconsequential which is the the whole idea of having an accessible AR is it did you consider moving this Ada space to another spot and just make this a regular parking space well we I have not L looked into you know moving the Ada space but looking at this drawing here you know it looks like the the space where the vehicle is parked you know whether it's a regular car or a van you know they are all uh between roughly 6 and 1 half ft wide the vehicle itself 6 and a half is is a relatively wide vehicle and the parking spot I think and we can verify I think in this case it's 8 feet plus 8 feet for that accessible area next to it um yes and yeah absolutely right so the van if it's a a normal van has to fit in a normal parking space which is below 8 ft and then the code requirement is to have 3 feet passageway which is exactly what we're providing um there's this is absolutely meeting the requirements so the van fits into the van space and it will still be room to spare because there there no vans that are 8 ft wide I hope and then the additional stripe to Van van unloading area is to the side and then there's a as required a 3ot passageway from it but it's next to the driveway itself so there's plenty of room there with the 3T plus the 8 ft um I'm not 100% sure what is the concern I think the other Marina the other thing we can add you know the the reason for the eight WID 8ot width next to the parking space is because some of the Vans have an uh a ramp that comes out you know that's the reason for the 8 feet adjacent to the parking lot but we don't need the 8 feet opening all the way for the person like we see in the image here uh 3 feet is is uh sufficient for that we could obviously opening it up more but I think it it was visually there was was an uh wish to to keep that opening to a minimum okay thank you um Mr Cohen so I don't want to jump too quickly to deliberation but I really want to push the notion that this is not the right location for the Ada parking as I noted before this unit is you know this parking is right on top of unit number one unit number one is a two-story unit with no bedrooms on the first floor it's not it's not viable as a as a as an accept as an accessible unit so having the accessible parking right you know in the living room of the of a of a that belongs to somebody else is just not the right thing to do yeah now I have a proposal which is I mean Marina sort of suggested well you could just get rid of this all together put the uh accessible the Ada space in the other lot and lose one of the parking spaces in the other lot and if you did that you would be down to four parking spaces and I don't want to say that um you know the board shouldn't entertain that but if we want to be closer to meeting the parking requirement or perhaps even entirely meeting the parking requirement what I would suggest is move the Ada space to the to the communal lot lose one of the spaces there as a loading spot for the Ada and then have continue to have one space here or possibly two tandem spaces here here make the driveway a little bit longer and you could have two spaces dedicated to unit number one have your full complement of parking and have your ad Ada space more appropriately where it belongs now you'd have to put a ramp on the other side instead of a step up on the other side the way it is currently but I think that that would be a much better Arrangement or give a variance for one parking space by having four in the communal lot one one being 88 having one over here um I'd be okay with either of those Solutions but both of them I think are way better than having this as the Ada space yeah I Su we're about to have a comment from our engineer about some of these things I just note though that the just just as we're deliberating and thinking about this that the tandem Arrangement would also require a variance those would not the stack spaces um wouldn't necessarily count independently absent I know they're allowed under certain circumstances Ryan I don't remember what the exact limitations are but they're they're allowed under certain circumstances maybe J speak to that just noting though that if if we go down that route that we make sure we cover anything that would be involved in in arranging it technically but and Jim hopefully I gave you an extra couple seconds to uh to to think through this be before you do Jim Derek do do you do you want to weigh in quickly yeah I have to double check but I believe it's in parking garages it was done for Palmer Square's garage to allow stack parking for large events and stuff so it would be a variance um didn't contemplate this type of situation though it happens all the time in my neighborhood I'm sure it does yeah uh Mr calik and I I just wanted to give a little background and color as to some of the constraints um and the supporting reasons why the Ada stall is on that right side of the property this the property has some topographic conditions where it actually slopes from right to left and slopes down from right to left or up from right to left uh it slopes down from from right when you're looking at the front of the property from where the Ada stall is now to the left okay okay so with it on the right hand side of the property were able to have a condition where we have a sloped sidewalk across the property Frontage at 5% maximum and it's it's a better tra of P of travel for the Ada accessible route from that stall to the front door but you'll notice on our plan that if you approach from the leftand side where the five car parking area is we have several risers in that area and it's much steeper to get from there to the front door and we're mitigating this grade change which right now there are retaining walls out on the left hand side of the property where that parking lot is going so this was sort of a balancing act um and that's also a reason that supported it on the right hand side to have a better accessible path of travel and I just wanted to call that out because it's it's not as easy as just doing a flip-flop and we're good there are other topographic constraints that that drove this that's why you get the big bucks Jim this is still this is not the right place for the ada8 spot I'm sorry so I think that figure it out although it's not easy and you're right David that we do have the best engineer um and we will I don't think he exactly said that with no disrespect to Mr Kamal no disrespect I'm just saying but not put words in Mr Cohen's mouth but we could certainly work on that um it's not easy Jim's absolutely right we we we did you know he was very very very adamant how much of a difference you don't even perceive it but it is a big difference in slope but it's not impossible you're absolutely right okay other questions for um uh Mr jacar have you finished your testimony so our questions now are for any of any of your Witnesses uh okay Mr Mr Lesco Justin yes uh there was one other thing I don't believe was covered it was in my report uh really I stole it from Victor's report uh so but there was a recommendation to paint Ada accessible space uh you know the the logo on the space itself is that something that the applicant is willing to do wherever it ends up yes yeah great uh David Cohen yeah I also um I don't know what the right answer is for this but there is a very high likelihood that you're not going to have somebody who's wheelchair bound in this building at all and so you know twisting ourselves into knots to provide an ADA space um that would never be needed or used um I don't know you know this is not as it's not well I don't know if it's a zoning issue or it's regulated by some other aspect of the code but you know to be able to say well we don't have an ADA space but we have an ADA convertible space in the leand lot by losing one of the other parking spaces so you know and at that time should we need it we'll solve the access issue into the building could be you know I I don't know uh but I think that I would support that um you know having an ADA convertible parking space rather than an ADA space from day one um yeah that's an interesting uh notion Mr Mr meller so the communal spaces would continue to be designed the way they are is that your idea what I just said was yes they would be designed the way they are with the concept that one of them could be converted to an ADA space if needed at some point in the future and that would mean if somebody moves into the complex and is wheelchair bound correct okay thank you um that might also allow for the addition add outside covered bike parking to to happen where the adaas or in some part of where the ad Ada space is currently located do do those of you with design experience think that makes sense I'm just trying to think of ways that you know such that we're not asking people with bikes to walk across a lawn to get to a covered area or squeeze between parked cars or uh anything uh Miss Nuka sorry someone else was going to jump in okay um so I'm just on the adaa parking issue is it possible to put the Ada optional parking where the two um uh EB ready parking spaces are currently noted next to the lobby in mail area I guess I I'd be I can attempt to respond um I think assuming we can work out how do we get from the larger parking lot to the front door somehow uh what I'm understanding David is proposing is that we um the unit one adjacent parking space will no longer be Ada it will be regular parking spot um if need be it could be tandom um and then I would say it would be easier to do the two parking spaces that are next to that triangle labeled number one Ryan if you don't mind pointing to them the ones that are uh not the EV ready the other two so one of them would be the the parking space and the other one would be the striped area maybe that one right next to the little passageway and it also happens to be the most difficult one to get in and out of as David correctly pointed out and then right in front there could be a very where the little cloud is um Ryan if you don't mind pointing to it above that parking spot right there yeah between the edge of the parking lot in the cloud could be a very nice looking um bike parking so that that striped area would be access um that's an easy way to access all the bikes um could you just tell the board what is the difference in elevation between the parking area and the front door um G like three feet maybe three feet okay well it's three feet at the street I me maybe 3 feet is it's three feet basically that has to be um accessible by ramp if it's about two it's about two feet it's a little less two feet yeah so I I suspect that we can ramp somehow not exactly sure how a two feet vertical distance and then you have a ramp distance of you could have a ramp distance of up to over 10 feet in order to provide a wheelchair accessible ramp it has to be for every one foot wiggle up um it would be 12T horizontally so for 2T we need a 24t ramp which will somehow not sure how will work out okay um but it looks like you have 26 feet yeah that's what I'm thinking somehow will that'll need railings you know right exactly we need need railings but you could hide this with the low wall you know and have the I mean does a wheelchair wrap requ fire railings if it's if it's if it's not adjacent to the building no if if it's one for every one foot horizontally I'm sorry for every um 1 foot vertically 12T horizontally it requires a railing if it's 20 feet horizontally for every foot you go up then you don't need a railing uh but I I think that that proposal if I'm understanding correctly then we would move the Ada parking spot to the very left one um then there would be the striped area where the center one is and that would be the van loading unloading and also access to the bike um thing yeah and then the compact stays the way that is the EV ones are not changing and then the question is whether the unit one parking spot will be it itself just one or does it um need the second one tandem um what I'm not sure if we have preferences but um we'll um be happy to hear suggestions either scenario would require variance either either scenario requires a variance because tandem either it's one less parking space or tandem both are a variance conditioned correct maybe I can ask Dan Weissman can go back to David's Point not what Marina just said where there'd still be in Ada space that there would not be originally an ADA space can we can we do that I guess this was my impression but I don't have a good handle on it that you would need to have an ADA space Dan do you have a uh Ada standards require uh where you're providing at least one parking space per dwelling unit that a Ada space is required um so if the project is riding at least one parking space then one of those spaces has to be ADA Compliant and we can't it's not it's not a zoning issue that one could get a variance from no Department of Justice for the United States yeah and I guess okay so and if you had t two tandem spaces that would just lead to a lot more backing out onto U to Lane wouldn't it yes yes it would I was thinking about that too I don't think t a great idea actually other possibilities to not have any parking there at all and just have four parking spaces for four units yeah and when I when I was suggesting bikes might go over there that I was I was assuming mistakenly that the thought was to get rid of that space Al together but this certainly shouldn't be both over there um Mr Lesco yes thank you madam chair and uh I think we're starting to get some momentum on this so I don't want to uh you know go against it but I do have a question for the engineers and probably more so the Traffic Engineers um either our uh the municipal staff or the applicants uh can an ADA space be in that far further corner or does it have to be the closest or or one of the closer ones um to the entrance not all at once please I think in theory they're supposed to be the closest and most uh convenient but if there's a question of ramping you know maybe we can justify the Ada space you know where Marina mentioned it yeah I've been to many facilities where the closest parking spaces were not the accessible ones I'll give you an example right off the bat at allgreens there are a couple of non accessible parking spaces that are closer to the front entry than the access you know than the accessible ones and I've I've seen it that's true my physical therapist as well I mean I think it's um it's not uncommon especially here where it's really a difference a minimal difference in distance yeah you know yeah the furthest space is six feet further than the nearest you know it's right yeah and I'm not I have no problem with that I just want to make sure it's you know legal and moral uh before we go agree to it yeah and what's the advantage of having the ad space as the for I guess South space um the advantage of that would be that it gives us more room to ramp that's number one and number two is that um open area where the loading and unloading would provide easy access to potential bike storage located in that trapezoidal zone would that middle space then be eliminated is that idea yes that would be the striped uh loading unloading van Zone yes okay thank you and would the compact space turn into a doesn't need to be compact space uh I guess you'd need to do math to figure that out maybe it let me double check but I think that two parking spaces combined is what we need let me just make sure I'm not misremembering um actually you're right I think we will th those two combined are 18 and we need 16 so we'll gain two extra feet Yes good point uh Mr Weissman uh just as we're considering moving parking spaces uh the partial of the accessible aisle for the current Ada space is already under a canopy so that does provide another opportunity to provide covered bike parking should that space move I believe but it would be right outside the windows of unit one yes yeah which I was actually going to say if if it becomes clear that this space is going to unit one or or has the potential to because it's not Ada accessible then you could bring the gate back uh if the applicant wanted that and then I'm sure it be something you just give them some sort of clicker to open it like a garage door uh then there's not the accessibility issues Madam chair I'd like to bring up another point it goes back to what was said earlier it is very likely that the Ada space will not be occupied statistically it's you very likely and so if we move the Ada space to the two spaces on the South Side there would not be a car there and then we end up with three parking spaces in effect three real parking spaces and then the owner of unit one will have a car parked in front now if it becomes a tandem space next to unit one that means it's probably the same household that has to use a TM spaces it would be the one household that has two cars and it's not certain that the owner or the tenant in unit one will have two cars it could very well be that it's the tenant in unit four that has two cars so you know it's not an ideal situation either if we move the Ada space you know to the south of the building um given the likelihood that it's you know the statistically it will not be occupied right um Madam chair can I respond to that yes because I think that's frankly the the exact reason why we're talking about this because it's not going to be occupied you know a good amount of the time person in unit one is going to start thinking it's their sidey guard until someone actually needs it and then you know we have a problem so I agree completely you know the Ada space might not be used but I'd rather it not be used on the other side where no one's going to put their things in it than on this side uh where the unit one might start seeing it as their patio yeah and I this goes back to Dan's point about what the what the legal constraints are but I don't think that you have to have this Ada space available for some random member of the public I mean I think it's there for the residents of this building so the question is does it sit completely unused uh if there don't happen to be any handicapped residents or can you give it to one of the residents um who's not handicapped in the event that there is no resident who requires a handicap space is that a zoning question or thatal yeah yeah okay I mean I know we talked about this related to EV spaces when you have EV spaces that are taking up some of the uh required parking spaces for a multif family building and I believe what we discovered was someone who does not own an EV can park in an EV space under those circumstances um you know if there aren't enough EVS to use all of the EV spaces in a multif family building but obviously accessibility is a different kind of issue than yeah and I mean what if people had visitors or relatives you know coming that needed that space um yeah I I don't I think anyway I think I think legally it's it's ultimately uh to police enforcement on occupation of ADA spaces uh any Ada sign would have the penalty signage associated with it um so it it comes down to police enforcement um so I think legally that that space would have to remain uh available to anybody who is occupying or visiting this building um or an ADA space yeah so I don't think okay I think that's absolutely right um Mr Bodenheimer has his hand up and therefore I'm expecting a dressing down right now go ahead Matt let her rip oh my god I've become completely predictable look I just wanted to express my bewilderment because I I we just well first all it's like I feel like we're designing we're like getting involved in design on the Fly and I I I feel like as well we've sort of imposed on ourselves some kind of deadline to to to prove this this evening but I don't understand what the policy rushes on our side when the applicant seems to have submitted materials that are you know that are requiring this incredibly deep engagement with us on design issues to resolve things that are you know I sort of would expect would have been worked out with Steph like I I I sort of feel like we should be just articulating a bat list of things that we are not comfortable with the application and sending them off to figure it out and work with staff on this cuz I I'm I have no confidence that when you know the the the we all get too tired and unable to actually process all this stuff under a Time gun of 11 o'clock which you know that we will actually have gotten everything right at all like there's just too many things so I I'm I'm I'm I'm asking whether there's another way that we could handle this tonight and whether we're really under the pressure to get this done tonight and whether we can't give the policy direction that I feel it's the board's obligation to do without getting into the design details that I mean frankly I don't feel I'm qualified to to to be in the Weeds on well one way to answer that is that the applicants this application has no variances so you know all although there are definitely some some things that you know needed addressing you know there's no nothing in the ordinance that says they an ADA accessible unit NE right next to a unit that's very unlikely to be occupied it just doesn't make sense so what we're trying to do is it is make it make more sense and that applies to the common open space as well even if it means that we're asking or we're requiring or introducing whatever the notion of variances that the applicant is not asking for so yeah I mean I completely get your frustration but I also think we can address this tonight and um and that these are are practical considerations that are worth mulling over but do they have to listen to anything that we're asking for is there anything that I mean I think they've certainly expressed a keen interest in listen listening to what we're asking for and and our understanding that the issues being raised are um uh Common Sense practical concerns I'm far from saying that these aren't valid concerns I mean I'm just asking the procedural question like yeah are they listening to us out of the goodness of their hearts do we really have a like what is our I'm sorry I just we're not allowed to we're not allowed to deny the application that's conforming but we're allowed to put conditions on it exactly exactly and we have we have a lot of discretion uh in imposing those conditions as long as they're reasonable there's a couple of criteria but reasonable relate to the zoning Etc and what was just what was articulated for quite an extended period of time with respect to the Ada space clearly it's reasonable to do that by the way now that would result in five spaces how many do they need under the ordinance six so they would need a is that a variance or is is it a w correct variance variance you need a variance for that and then I don't know just seemed to me uh as an outsider looking in that uh there had to be more grappling with this whole common open space idea um so that the the space is used is used well rather than just and that it works for everybody right yeah yeah yeah um it's past time for a break um Madam chair can I jump in I'm sorry just before yes please and also Mr Cohen and then we'll take 10 go ahead Justin just I want to address the assertion that the board doesn't have any control over this I mean Jerry correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we've heard anything that affirmatively says that ADA space even works I mean we've heard some information about yes there's three feet and you know a van could fit in there but I think for those reasons the board does have some discretion here even though this is a variance free application at this time yeah I I agree uh for all the reasons given and what you've just said and just a ba a van backing out onto uh to Lane I mean uh you know it's problematic yeah okay thanks Jerry David yeah so I just wanted to say in the spirit of being responsive to Nat's uh discomfort I mean I would I would be fine saying move the Ada space to the other side we don't have to decide tonight which space it is or exactly what the layout of the communal lot is but get the Ada space out of where it is now and give a variance for one fewer parking space do not go with the tandem space because for variety of reasons it's it may be overp parking unit one unit one and underp parking other units and you know it's more impervious coverage so that would be my my direction to the applicant and to staff be rather than having us solve it yeah move the Ada space and give a variance for one fewer space right yep that makes sense to me too okay it's 926 um we're going to take a break I'll see everybody back at 9:35 so nine minutes thanks everybody see you soon um for your patience um let's see do we have everybody don't think we have oh there I think stepped away one two three ah there we go okay um where were we we were we were I I think we had uh sort of put that parking thing to bed with uh Mr with Mr Cohen's uh comment right before we broke and um and and that I didn't mean to be flippant um I do do appreciate the the the gut check that you always um so I I always prefer to call it a Creed Aur but that's um fair enough um so are there are there other questions um for the applicant um and their wites before we um go to public comment um Louise can we go through the reports of um Justin of course Dan um just to see if there's anything they they're highlighting that we should either consider or they recommending his comments yeah uh I'm happy to begin if you'd like yes please uh so my comments I kind of structured them the first six are about Ada space so I think we're good uh the next couple are about the open space requirement um so I think it's still not very clear when this is off the page and and built and there for the next you know 30 50 hundred years uh that that shared open space behind unit 3 does not belong to unit 3 um the applicant said they they're willing to add that pathway as they showed uh they mentioned a gate um I don't know if they said something about it not being locked or or uh uh obviously it shouldn't be locked to the or can't be locked to the other tenants um but also unit 3 uh it's rear entrance goes directly onto it which I think also gives the the the view I mean that's what unit tws does to their private space so exactly and I I thought based on early early in the meeting that we were inclined and uh would be my inclination anyway to to designate that as unit three private open space um and give a variance for the shared open space and is that address that yeah yep y that addresses I as long as it's clear and as long as Jerry you you described it before but I think we would be able to do that yes based on the current noes thing okay um and then just moving on my one of my other comments is about the Landscape Architects report I think Mr uh uh Dober milsky will get to that so that's about it for me okay thanks Justin uh Dan and Derek uh thank you madam chair everything uh so far tonight uh uh running through it again I Jerry I don't know if you wanted to run through those um if we could Dan that would be sure yeah um if you want I'll jump right in there's the Minimus exception to residential s Improvement standards uh which uh I talked about earlier um there was a comment uh regarding floor area calculations um it's more of a clarification question uh that we can resolv during compliance uh but it's it's compliant with f um common on open space which we've talked about uh reconstruction of the public sidewalk um details of long-term and shortterm bicycle parking where are you now uh and in terms of your um page four page four correct um yeah right we had talked about the fence between the Ada space and the uh accessible route around that fence that was discussed uh the applicant provided testimony regarding the secondary sidewalk going from the larger parking area to the front um so I think the board should just deliberate on that uh after public comment um staff had requested the appli provide details of the Ada parking sign um Mr Kennedy is there any objection to providing the details for that nope thank you um clarification for Ev uh ready spaces was clarified that two spaces are to be provided um we talked about the gate going to the Ada space uh the applicant clarified that curb stops would be provided at the two parking spaces adjacent to the proposed building and then going to page five uh with the typical staff comments of uh the construction cost estimate for the installation of site and public improvements as well as Outside Agency approvals um and then there's a comment just uh minor comment regarding uh the signature block on sheet one of the Civil drawings and that was it thank you Dan thank you uh Dan if I could follow up on one of those um and this is why I kind of cautioned about designing on the fly but is the gate going to go back now that the Ada space is moving or is it still going to be open speaking from the applicant our preference would be if that were to be converted if the board's preferences to Grant a variance to down to five spaces and for us to move the Ada space to the left we'd like to return that gate for reasons that I think Mr leco actually suggested made it perhaps challenging for a uh um for an ADA space uh might actually make it quite uh um beneficial uh as a as a regular space private to that to that unit so we our preference would be uh it should it returned to a regular space non-tandem uh that the gate be returned thank you and then the doors would be to the steps leading to it not the windows behind it that we saw I'll let Marina find the chance could follow the this is the connection to that unit to that parking space is the question um so right now we have one operable door under cover it is easier to have a door undercover for rain protection however if it's important and desirable by the board to provide the other one that could be added as well but it won't be undercover then okay the operable door is that for un three one yeah um it seems a bit Overkill to have two doors I think one is fine too but um anything else Mr Lesco or Mr Weissman if not um Dand Dober milski yes hello again um hi I think I've heard that the applicant has been agreeable to most what's in the report but Jerry if it helps I could go through them real quick yeah Dan I think that'd be good so I think the first comment was talking about the potential for some additional uh trees on the property and I think the applicant indicated willingness to look into that um perhaps that could be a condition that uh if this does go to the landscape subcommittee that that could be reviewed there along with the municipal arborist who I think ultimately will process whether there's mitigation trees required or not um so that could be a condition if that makes sense for number one yeah they said they would would add some arbori Along The Back Fence Asing that could po potenti solve the whole issue exactly um and that gets into comments number two and three as well so in comments two was talking about the fence and the adequacy of the fence but if we're having Arbor that kind of makes the fence solid anyway um so we could talk about the actual layout of those Arbor to get the maximum screening for the units particularly from the garage as they talked about and then in comment three um that common 3 was talking about changing what they proposed as Japanese Plum to the arbiv so two and three kind of combine together and say that the applicant will consider using the arborite and it'll help with in addition to the fence to provide the screening that's desirable along the back property Ro side property lines does that make sense Jerry yeah yeah absolutely comment four was about the ground cover and that the need for Native species ground cover they I think they agreed to that they would make modifications to do that um my comment five was to suggest using an alternative um species for the shade trees um I I incorrectly said it was an Armstrong cultivar they're proposing that actually it's bohall which is slightly wider than Armstrong um and preferable over Armstrong but I suggested that there's a lot of red maple that's been planted and perhaps some other um species would be desirable and I think they cons they said they were open-minded to that so be a condition that that be discussed and that the final selections um either be approved by LSC subcommittee or the arborist or landscape architect however you want to do that I think your suggestions of Tupelo or willow oak were both very good yeah I think they would fit that space well yeah so that and Tupelo is spectacularly beautiful in the fall right and it doesn't get real real wide so I think it would fit so that that's that's that's the suggestion there comment six was the root barrier comment and I think that could be handled by just having a note added to the plans indicating that they'll be deployed where appropriate with as noted in my comment and number seven they would have to revise the pl so the planting schedule would include some additional size specifications and number eight was just asking about the visibility of utility elements and whether that needs to be reviewed I think that could be if the board agrees could be handled by having a note on the plan indicating that those type of elements will be screened from public view assuming that that's possible so that's um I just on the on the issue of the fence and I I'm believe me not suggesting that we need to go into detail you know about every last asked um about minutia related to the fence but I would like um to secure a commitment from the applicant to not use to not erect a plastic fence a PVC fence which are common and that it and that it be a wooden fence yes or something something that's not plastic no problem well you get that Jerry yep I have it um okay and do we have we dealt with the um question or the issues raised Etc in Mr Ana's um memo Victor do you have anything further um I I think most of my comments have been deliberated on and uh think have a path uh the the second comment is similar to what Dan has in his detail of the shortterm and the longterm backing spaces um comment number three about G collection and Disposal process to testify they have provided testim Mone um number four talks about the size of the compact uh space design what is required based on uh deliberations uh it seems like uh the compact space might go away so that might not be required anymore yeah is that true I didn't I didn't understand Oh I thought it was true the handicap loading space doesn't need to be as wide as a parking space which would alleviate the width constraints on the compact space so the compact space would be increas in size okay yes we we believe we can do that we that we need to make sure that the we do get we do gain an extra two feet through that uh but the the chatter on our side is that we'll we we'll work towards that that may still not be a full 9 by 19 space there well 9 by 18 you want to go with the work towards that I mean we've heard a lot of language about that I would just say they have to do it okay uh comment number five is related to to number four if you if you're providing a compact space uh I'm recommending that they put a pavment marking because sometimes what happens is the bigger vehicles use that space and they kind of uh occupy part of the regular space and makes data Spates uh very insecure to use so you think the pavement marking works better than a then signage that says yeah signage or some kind of Market it's okay yeah okay one or the signage yeah Y and then the Ada handicap payment symbol or the signpost should be placed at the disected ads space MH and then number seven uh I think we'll kind of agree that the ad space as is presently show should be relocated to the open parking lot right so that's that's all I have okay great are we ready to go to public comment Mr Cohen you've had yeah I just wanted to make one more comment about the bike parking which is um you know I think that the overhang by unit one with its private car parking also has a really good opportunity for a couple of private bike parking spots and so rather than you know building a new overhang and worrying about having to give us sidey variants on the other side where we were talking about I would say put a couple of covered spaces for unit one and then you know get up to a total of eight spaces I think you can do that between a couple by unit one and six inside uh where it's currently shown and that we don't really need to add more covered parking outside even if it's a freestanding yeah it's a great suggestion I just think I mean two two bikes per unit I I completely I'm thinking also about people who visit um well they don't need covered parking and we've already got okay spot for that out front Okay okay so there's there's bike um parking facilities that are uncovered that are outside the building right now now because I yes okay all right I missed that good thanks and just to clarify on the bike parking so that the proposed ramp won't interfere with the outside bike parking that might be a question it'll require to be reconfigured likely slightly with the number would remain the same it may shift over to the other side of the front door thank you B parking is outdoor bike parking is identified but we're not going to have it other than the spaces that were just articulated by uh David no I mean there will still be other outside bike parking but it won't be covered okay and it may need to be relocated or some adjustment based on the ramp situation that py just reminded us of okay um okay with that I will um open the meeting for public comment this is uh we have eight still eight members of the public um L any of yes would you like me to go through Mike the conditions in addition to what we've all discussed that are in my um notes well don't we usually do that after public comment yeah let's let's wait let's let's listen to what folks have to say and then because it might we might right yeah had something okay um members of the public if you would like to address the board now is the time uh to uh click on the raise hand icon or reactions or whatever your Zoom screen says um on mine it's raise hand uh if anybody wishes to speak I'm not seeing any hands go up um so I'll just uh say going once going twice all right there's no um no public comment on this application tonight so I'll close the public comment portion of the hearing um so yes Jerry um do your thing okay obviously we've gone through a number of of conditions uh in the memos um now did the plan show that that those two spaces are Make Ready they do show that those spaces are make ready it's already shown in the plans that's right yeah sorry it's shown in what we it's shown in at tonight oh right right it'll need to be added to the actual plans and compliance right they shown in A1 um Miss Anderson claud's got her hand up too may I just ask a question um P just mentioned the ramp is it option and do we care if the developer chose to install an outdoor wheelchair lift instead of this 40 foot long ramp does it really matter how the handicapp person would access the building I don't know what um what the law requires I was just wondering I I mean I don't know the answer to your question Maybe um maybe Dan Weissman does or Mr Kennedy or Mr Mueller but um I know just you know from people who use Walkers or crutches the the ramp is more helpful maybe than a lift uh so I would think that a ramp and also a ramp is not subject to technical you know breakdowns and such but I don't know the answer you know the yes or no answer we have an answer I I think that's a really I'm sorry yeah Marina has got your hand up do you do you know um we are legally required to provide wheelchair accessible entrance to the building if you would like to leave it open to the applicants to figure out exactly how they do that or we do that um that would give us the flexibility normally if possible we do prefer to have a ramp for the reasons that um were described to avoid them breaking down avoid feeling people uneasy using them but if all else fails if it ends up being too long um if you would like to leave it open for um a possibility of having some form of a lift I don't think there would be any objections to that yeah I mean I'm comfortable with that it just needs to comply with the Ada we obviously entrance there no two ways around it yeah right thanks for bringing that up Claudia um go ahead Mr Mueller um curb stops for the two EV ready spaces yeah and there a question of the bird safe glass Miss rabina said um you know they don't know if they can afford it but I don't think it's a criteria that the the board should consider for an applicant to come in and say well do you want me to do X Y and Z but I can't do any of that because it's too expensive um so if the board thinks it's reasonable I would say impose it um how do people feel about that I mean I um my concern is I I don't I I don't have strong feelings about requiring a um bird safe glass you know that costs four times as much as a regular pain but I but I know from investigating it myself that there are a lot of ways to make so so one way or the other I do think that um that the applicant should show how they will uh address that whether it's with bird safe glass panes or some some you know um decals Etc the kinds of things that people use to make regular pains birn safe we we'd certainly be willing to take mitigating measures just the if it were to be imposed to to actually use a certain product we would I would have to try to object to that but certainly we would environmental standpoint we're asking for a specific product but I think that the we're asking that it be achieved but at the same time I agree with Jerry I don't think that we can't afford it defense is a valid defense for this I mean you know you can say that for almost anything I'll just add it's it's not in the ordinance with the um we've come with a compliant project and this is not a function that's related to any of the the site issues that we've discussed I certainly understand the the board's preference and I just reiterate our our willingness to achieve some type of compliance uh whether it's in the glass or with an aftermarket product thank you yeah okay I'm okay with that thank you Ryan um public sidewalk will be um reconstructed hold on excuse me if the construction is completed um pain I've already said this sorry pain the accessible path but um I think that's hold on one second okay do we want to get this specific Open Space Unit adjacent to unit 3 make it unit 3 open space and variance from the common open space requirement yes okay so so that' be the second variance the first variance is the parking variance right and the open space variance I think would essentially equal the requirement which I think is600 minus whatever that uh uh rear yard one would have been okay then put a gate by the original Ada space it's now going to be a conventional space um not a non-tandem space um so that's one then one operable door operable door for unit one wooden notot plastic fence outdoor parking under overhang for unit one and six inside and that's bike parking Jerry Oh I thought that I must not said something outdoor bike parking under overhand for unit one plus six bike bike spaces inside right right yeah that's what I meant to say sorry um and the shown outdoor space and and in and keep the shown outdoor spaces which may have to be relocated because of Any a ramp with a ramp right yeah outdoor bike bike parking spaces yeah and that's that's what I have okay um just one question there was I think I think there was a suggestion in somebody's memo about adding um a at least one tree along the street now in one of the images I saw um multi multi- stemmed small trees in front of unit one um I'm wondering uh it I think that there there seems to be ample room between the dedicated sidewalk and the public sidewalk um to put a a street tree I don't want to complicate things since the since the grading and ramp situation um you know is a a little bit up in the air but um another condition I would like to have is that this come to the landscape committee um and that the applicant consider uh a tree along the street um because right now there's just you know that that is uh you know very um exposed you know it just seems like a a a street tree would be nice along there especially since there are no um power lines on that side of the street and um it it's there's space for a nice big street tree potentially so if you'll consider it and we'll look at it at landscape committee that would be I'd appreciate that okay and then that's not in your report correct it was in my report um was yes under the the the suggestion for some additional trees one up front and a couple in the back I really agree Louise strongly thank you bringing that up yeah okay Justin and Madam chair one other more specifically just say ran an additional tree could well could be added now it would be must be added in the front yard and a couple of trees could be uh at it in the rear yard right I think the rear yard we were talking about the arbor body may take the place of those but in the front we could fit an additional tree and have idea species it would be same as the others or similar to the others the ones that we suggested elsewhere in the report tup below willow oak the you don't have to put those names in there you can just say as suggested this a shade tree right yes the the one image shows the small trees in front of the building like you indicated but that that what they're actually proposing are small shrubs there they won't look exactly like that image was shown that's what I thought looking at that yeah Justin H yes Madam chair that rendering that you mentioned also showed um Green Space in front of the wall in front of the over over hang uh you know maybe it's another 6 feet by 4 feet or something like that so um I don't and that's not shown on the site plan or on the architectural plan so I don't know if that's something you want to give the applicant the leeway to incorporate in uh through a comment or if you want to kind of require that they harmonize things but obviously R Rings aren't always one to one yeah but that's a very good point um Justin and what we've done in the past when an applicant has submitted this kind of presentation we we say the the plans have to be revised to so they're consistent with the presentation that sound acceptable to everybody sure okay except we're asking we are asking for other changes that are not consistent with the presentation so yeah I don't know that you can do that I think you gotta relative to the ramp and all everything is look like what they showed you tonight that's right yeah that's right so never mind what I said but we're going to have the landscape committee review yes plus landscape architect review the plans review the landscape plans yeah and they'll be subject and will and they will be subject to its approval okay so with those conditions as itemized by Jerry is there um uh a motion plus obviously the uh prian final major s plan and the two variances is there a waiver no we I don't think so no the parking waivers for the residential site Improvement standard okay those are yeah two parking waivers or one was for the compact spot which may go away been eliminated yeah and these would just be exceptions rather than waivers um exception exceptions from the uh the minous exceptions from the rsis okay okay right so the motion would be approval of this um pip commercial major site plan with the variances as and conditions as discussed right I'm moved I'm sorry I didn't see who did that Nat Nat thank you Nat moved by Nat bimer seconded by miax um Carrie do the honors Please Mr bimer yes Miss capoli yes Mr Cohen yes Mr mcowan yes Mr Miss Nuka yes Mr Adonna yes Miss pearlmutter yes Miss Sachs yes and Mrs Wilson yes motion carried thank you thank you all so much thank you everybody um and uh we meet again next week uh hopefully well I'm not even going to say it um any other comments for the good of the order before Mr Cohen does his duty I I wanted to ask the applicant I think Nat had a question what was your question Nat you want to know if the applicant was listening to us with with out of the goodness of their heart was that your question so now that they're no longer on the record I thought put them on the spot well um actually I may I not answer that question but provide a a somewhat interesting comment um that um it has come to my attention that in September 2023 there was a change to the rules regarding rsis and the parking standards in our rsis are no longer the minimum they're now the maximum um i' would be happy to provide the document so um it is a very exciting State of Affairs in the state of New Jersey that uh residential site Improvement uh standards are no longer required so municipality is totally allowed to be in their ordinances providing fewer parking spaces than an rsis and in fact if they would like to ask for more you have to submit documentation why you're providing more parking spaces that's remarkable I have no idea so two good newses today one is parking oh not sorry parking of based on rsis and the second one you know recycling for number five containers I mean like can it be more exciting than December 12th 2024 so I'm happy to share the information but I am so thrilled about the rsis updates I just can't help but share now if they would just let go storm water I have to say when you circulate that if you could add me to the list of people being receiving it that'd be great I would prefer to send it to Justin and thank you for sharing Marina that checks off the box with one of our master plan goals y that's right and I have to say I raed I rised to the Mercer County Recycling website to check out the number fives it hasn't changed there yet I don't know when when this go into Ryan has the action for sure they have a separate um flyer that they're Distributing I'll get that to you um so you can see it uh it's it's not made their Master list uh but they have circulated a number five uh immediately uh graphic so I'll send that to you fantastic thank you really a big deal what an exciting day today but thank you David I'm begging you now ready I'm ready I move to a journ second all in favor good night good night everybody thank you very much see you next week good night