##VIDEO ID:tL4xKgiI5lw## along good evening and welcome this is a special meeting of the Princeton planning board on October 24th 20124 pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the time and place of this special meeting has been given by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton on the 17th day of September 2024 notice of this meeting has been posted to the municipal website Princeton nj.gov calendar notice that all regular and special meetings of the Princeton planning board will be held electronically via Zoom was transmitted to the Princeton packet and the times and was filed with the clerk of Princeton on Tuesday January 177 2023 please note this meeting is being recorded during hearings on applications for development members of the public will have an opportunity to comment and ask questions public comment is heard by the board after an applicant's Representatives have finished their presentations and have been questioned by planning board members and staff those wishing to comment orally should virtually raise your hand by clicking on the reactions or raise hand icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen or if participating by phone by pressing star n oral comments will be taken in the order in which hands were raised we ask with respect that members of the public express your views in three minutes or less we'll have a countdown clock to help speakers keep track of time time please note that speakers who exceed 3 minutes will be interrupted inappropriate public comment containing obscenity hate speech or relating to matters not before the board will be muted Carrie would you call the role Please Mr bodimer here miss capoli here Mr Cohen here Mr Macwan here miss Nuka here Mr O'Donnell miss pearlmutter here miss saxs Mr Taylor uh Jack your mute is on you're muted here Miss Wilson Anderson here Mrs Wilson here we have a quorum thank you um announcements I have one um I just wanted to let folks know and if you get the municipal newsletter and happen to check your email you might have seen it there too but um a couple of nights ago Princeton was honored at New Jersey Futures smart growth awards ceremony at the Performing Arts Center in New Brunswick um and the municipality was um received this award for the trune Harrison mixed use Village um the various uh redevelop development and Redevelopment projects in the immediate vicinity of the shopping center um the uh the there's you know a whole page of text in the program about um Princeton's submission um but it concludes with New Jersey future is proud to recog ized tune Harrison mixed use village with a 2024 smart growth award celebrating its innovative approach to transforming a challenged area into a thriving resilient community and so I um I just wanted to point out that the smart growth awards are a big deal in the in the planning world it's it really is um a competitive uh and very um rigorous process and so a lot of credit goes to um miax and Christine Simington uh who worked very intensively on the submission and of course also to Justin leco and um I just wanted to to call that out because it's really nice to have um projects that we know a lot about um recognized Statewide for for being um uh examples of good planning so that's my announcement um any other announcements from from board members or I hope uh Mia's um ears are burning as she makes her way to uh uh to her other commitment tonight um any other um announcements from from board members or from staff uh David I I just wanted to comment that I am having some computer problems so I'm on audio on my phone and you can see me on video on my computer I just wanted to um alleviate any question about that yes and um I uh um my hat goes off to you for figuring out a way for there not to be an echo even though you're connected in two different ways so my my solution is that the audio on my computer is broken so ah okay all right no no no Tech savviness just uh just just good good luck bad luck right all right um I don't think that we have any subcommittee reports since we just met last week and and heard uh committee reports so let's go straight to the application tonight um this is for from The Institute for advanced study this is preliminary and final major site plan with variances at one Einstein drive and Olden Lane uh block 10501 lot 1.03 this is file number 242 24- 467 p and Madam um welcome to all of you from The Institute Mr Mueller uh notice Etc publication service are in order and the board has jurisdiction great um uh so all of you who are here on behalf of the institute for advanced study as I said welcome and you can activate your cameras um I'm going to invite Mr Lesco to sort of set the table here and then um after we we in our own um professionals we will welcome you Mr degia and your team and Witnesses and where you all in uh at the same time as well thank you so um Justin letco go right ahead and Justin if you could raise your right hand and is Dan is here as well yes yes Dan the both Dans and darck is here as well oh in both ends okay and and Victor NK as well so let's no Derek this evening Derek has a conflict okay okay if the board um professionals could raise their right hand you swear or affirm that testimony about to give will be the truth I do I do I so sworn or affirmed uh thank you uh and thank you madam chair and good evening members of the board and members of the public um I would like to share my screen to begin and it is loading right now uh and okay now if you could see that um I am showing the publicly available NJ map partial Explorer from Rowan University and I expect we will call this pb1 Jerry yes exactly great I'm getting getting better at this um as you can see the institute for advanced study parcel is in the center of my screen uh to the north and east you'll see residential homes as part of the battle Road neighborhood uh the institute's faculty and Scholar housing is more directly to the east across cross Olden Lane uh The Institute Woods are to the south of the campus and additional newer housing for The Institute is to the west and the Princeton Battlefield state park is not too far behind it uh the IAS campus is in the E2 educational zone of the former Township the property is not within a locally designated historic district nor is it on the state and National registers uh however the campus is listed in the historic preservation element of the master plan under historic resources for potential local designation uh this specific building we're discussing tonight was not identified though in the master plan Additionally the state historic preservation office issued an opinion in 2006 that the campus would be eligible for designation to the state and National Historic registers uh though this has not been acted upon um so therefore there are no local state or National Historic regulations on the building in the application before you or the campus in general uh so the building before you I'm going to zoom in a little uh Jerry do we need to call this pb2 now that I zoomed in I don't think so okay great um so this building is the historical study social sciences library to the south of the parcel it is off of the Einstein uh Drive Loop Road named after a foral former faculty member uh it is just North of The Institute Pond uh the library is a two-story building designed by Wallace K Harrison of the firm harison and abramovitz uh and it opened in 1965 when Jay Robert Robert Oppenheimer was still the director of The Institute uh the site slopes down uh towards the pond um so I'm just going to scroll down a little um and the building appears to be one story more or less at the Northern end and two stories at the southern end if your back is to the pond um with that kind of basement level being you know showing that and then showing the first floor above it uh the applicant proposes additions to the existing Library building uh including another story of just under 18,000 square feet a 5,000 foot addition on the first floor and about 500 square feet uh in an addition on the basement level uh there is a plaza to the east of the library that they're looking to renovate as part of this application doing so would remove 19 Linden trees uh that you could see here um a total of 37 trees are proposed to be removed as part of this Pro project requiring 55 replacement trees per our shade tree ordinance uh the applicant proposes 24 trees in the immediate vicinity of the library and 31 Elsewhere on the IAS property to meet that uh quota um The Proposal also includes the installation of four electric vehicle charging stations uh in the southwest corner of the parking lot adjacent to the library uh the proposal does not include any bicycle parking spaces uh 44 of which would be required uh from this application or a variance must be requested uh there are also significant sustainability and Green Building measures incorporated into this project um but I know the applicant has a presentation on those and all of the other things I mentioned uh so I will defer to them at this point um I will also hold my comments to the end from my report dated October 18th uh and as mentioned earlier um Mr Weissman is here with the engineering and Zoning report Mr Bridger is not here tonight uh due to a conflict uh Mr Ana is here with his traffic engineering report and Mr Dober milsky is here with his landscape architecture report uh so that's all I have for now thank you madam chair okay um uh Dan or Victor or other Dan um is there anything that you want to bring to our attention before we hear from the applicant and that would be sort of any kind of red flag kind of things not I I I'm that's not meant to be a softball it's a straightforward question I'm not seeing any oh I'm sorry hi Dan yes Dan Weissman thank you good evening everyone um just two points uh just wanted to call out briefly before the applicant goes into their presentation um there is required bicycle parking with this application uh Princeton code requires uh bicycle parking for any addition that increases floor area by 15% or more of the original building um that requirement would then apply to the entirety of the building um so something that's missing from the report if you went through it is the actual size of the proposed Building completed uh it measures out to approximately 61,2 square feet uh the bicycle parking requirement is 1400 square feet per or one space per 1400 square feet so there is a requirement for 44 bicycle parking spaces um the applicant has shown several on the plans but but they do not show a sufficient number to meet that 44 spaces um so the applicant is are either going to need to request a variants or provide those spaces uh on the site um the second is um off street parking spaces um the Princeton code has a table requirement for parking spaces it also uh has a a section that indicates that building types that are not classified in that uh that table uh the applicant can propose uh a required parking amount for the site um the applicant has indicated that the IAS doesn't uh meet any of the categories of the site it's an institution of High Learning there is no parking requirement specifically for institution of Higher Learning um so the applicant has indicated that the the existing site has 200 7 parking spaces and that that is sufficient for the site um Steph's opinion is that that's a reasonable assessment but the traffic engineer for the municipality is here as well um if there's any comments on that so those are the two things that I just wanted to point out before the applicant jumps into their presentation for the board to understand okay good thank you um Mr degia yes uh let me just say the U there's a panelist Pete Chandler whose hand has been up for some period of time is is that person affiliated with the Institute is that yes he is um and that's what I was going to start with he can't activate his camera it says the host the host is blocking it there you go not on purpose there we go all right thank you um good go ahead Mr degia thank you um for the record my name is Christopher degia from the law firm of fager drink bidd and wreath here on behalf of the applicant Institute for advanced study um thank you Mr Lesco for your um summary um I think it pretty much covered a lot of the materials um the application as Mr leco pointed out is for essentially the preservation and renovation of an existing Library um The Institute for advanced study is a one-of-a kind um institution uh dedicated to theoretical research and intellectual inquiry um what it does is it it Fosters work of Scholars from around the world in a very tranquil environmental setting um many of the board members here and the public probably are well aware that the Institute is also the steward of about 589 Acres of area that they preserved every every body knows it locally as Institute Woods which has a diversity of habitats ecosystems there's forested areas farmlands marshlands the Stony Brook River Runs Through It wetlands and it has this trail system that's open to the public so that's all part of the land that the institute for advanced study owns um the area that we are talking about is basically just Northwest of um that area and if you if you look at the the map Mr Lesco showed pb1 um the campus itself where the buildings are are essentially just Northwest of that preserved area so we're talking about the main campus itself um the the the library building has had a leaky roof for as far back as anybody could remember the building was built in 1960s but it's had this this problem with leaks um and I hope as you see our presentation this evening you'll see that there's been a very thoughtful and sensitive approach to the existing Library that's very respectful of the original design so the Consultants here and The Institute has found a way to basically preserve and protect the original Library um so it didn't have to be demoed and basically build mostly on on top of it with another level that's well integrated with the buildings in the area so what you're going to see this evening has really small or very minimal impacts um essentially because it's built on areas that have have already been um Disturbed or built upon it's not expanding into the fields or any forested areas um ultimately it does even reduce impervious coverage by uh about 2,00 618 square fet and it has it advances many sustainability um Energy Efficiency and green initiatives that we'll get into in a little bit from tying it into a geothermal system to EV charging charging stations which Mr Lesco already mentioned so there's a really a lot of great elements about this very sensitive and thoughtful approach to this um Library addition um I guess as you mentioned Jerry would you Mr Muller would you like me to have all of our Witnesses sworn in at the same time yes okay so we have uh Michael S Sone Michael you here oh Jerry do you want them to just list do you want me to list their names or them to list their names or how would you like me to do well I'll do it in the group if if all the people who are going to Tes on behalf of the Institute can raise your right hand do swear or from that testimony that are about to give it be the truth yes I do if you could go around and Peter why don't we start with you each of you if you can give your full name and spell your last name Christopher maybe you can like call people off so there it goes more efficiently Michael Michael Chone last name cic CC o NE thank you Janine Janine pero last name p c a r o Peter Peter Chandler c h n d l e r thank you Martin Martin Kimmel a i m m e l John John nead and is a Nancy Y St e DT George George j a c qu e m a r t and Francis um oh she may be in the um she's muted she's she's in but she's muted okay do should I do it again Francis holzband h a LS b n okay that's the list thank you okay so for I'm sorry excuse me um Miss H is that H LS b a d n d yes you've got it okay thank you so for our first Witnesses I would like to in um introduce representatives of the institute for advanced study we have the chief facilities officer Michaels chakon and we have Janine picaro who's the chief operate Operating Officer um we've prepared a slide presentation of 22 slides that I would like to Mark into uh record as A1 yep it's uh it's on the website as well we've we've submitted it to the municipality and um our first my first two witnesses is Will um go through or bring up let's bring up the or actually you could Janine or Michael I'm not sure which one of you are going to start but um I guess uh yeah let's bring that up so this is marked as exhibit A1 and this is uh the same exact presentation that is online I would say though that after we submitted it we realized that we didn't have page numbers so we've added numbers on the bottom same slides it's just easier to go through with the numbers visible so um Janine Michael great thank you Chris um I'm Janine perero I'm the Chief Operating Officer here at the institute for advanced study um and I'd like to just start uh by thanking the members of the planning board for creating this special meeting to consider our project application tonight um I'll be brief because you've already received many of the specific details of the actual construction project and we'll hear from many of our experts uh right after me but wanted to share a little bit about what it will mean to those who work on our campus and why this project is important to us I'm going to share a picture of the uh Library when it was first built in the 1960s so you have a a view of of what it looked like initially um the institute's library renovation and Expansion Project represents our commit commitment to the preservation of multiple values architectural Heritage of this campus sustainability and the research capacity of our Scholars M as we can you identify what slide you're on as you go through them oh sure y thank you thank you um we're looking at slide number two which is the library at completion in 1965 as we explored ways of repairing and mitigating this roof that was leaking as early I think as 1967 a couple years after it was built um and the rest of the envelope issues that we have such as single pane windows and a failing exterior pavers around the library um of our existing historical studies and social sciences Library it became clear that a one for one roof replacement wouldn't be a stable solution for this building by building a second floor on it that present reserves the architectural aesthetic and the visibility of the original building we have the opportunity to meet critical space needs of our Scholars and address some of the libraries big issues the main floor of the library as Justin uh described earlier will be expanded over some of the existing exterior pavers that you can see in this picture um many of those have finished space below and that will solve many decades of water penetration issues into the library Stacks that are low ground on the first level the basement level of the library and will create additional desired spaces for study and work rooms for the library staff this also means that our Librarians can spend time assisting scholars in locating research M materials and accessing the collections instead of running around the building covering bookshelf bookshelving with plastic tarps every time there is a thread of rain we'll also be gaining meeting rooms and collaborative spaces on the new second floor which will be used to relocate Scholars and staff that have been sharing offices or occupying modular office space uh depending on the year team meeting rooms and workspaces in shapes and configurations unlike any we presently have on our campus will allow Scholars to work more collaborative collaboratively across fields in a new center for collaborative research by proposing this project instead of a new standal loen building we're also striving to conserve our campus lands as Chris said earlier you know just under 600 acres of our 800 plus acres of our campus are permanently preserved um and maintained by The Institute for the enjoyment of not only our Scholars but the broader Princeton Community um and those woods are cherished by not only our Scholars um but everyone else but that leaves us with very little little buildable land left on our campus it also allows us to continue to move forward our sustainable campus goals by dramatically improving the Energy Efficiency of the current Library structure the renovated Library will use utilize less energy to operate than the current structure even with the addition of another floor by substantially reducing heat loss and cooling needs it will also dramatically reduce nighttime light pollution the use of of these newer energy efficient Building Materials in the project as we're proposing and our conversion to geothermal heating and cooling on our academic campus back in 2021 are the primary reasons why such a large addition will not add to energy use we also talked a minute ago about the EV charging stations that will be added uh to the existing parking area to the west of the library we currently have a number of other EV Chargers across our campus for the of those who live and work here um they're also part of our larger strategy of reducing the use of fossil fuels we've been converting many of our work vehicles on our campus to Electric um as part of this larger plan of ours so in short this project is about preservation for us it preserves the use of the original Library its research environment which is cherished and its collections including rare books and manuscripts which are constantly under threat from possible leaking it also preserves Our Land by focusing on building up and not out the renovation and reduction of the existing impervious pavers will actually reduce the overall amount of impervious surface that the original structure had and will reinstate some green space and it's going to preserve our ability to Foster research and Discovery uh but it's going to provide a space unlike any other on our campus today where Scholars from different schools and disciplines can actually come together for Discovery in spaces that are designed for that so in closing I just want to thank the committee again we truly appreciate the consideration of our application by the town this evening and before I'm not sure Michael has else thank you I'm not sure if Michael has anything else to add but I had one followup question based on how you described uh the facility um is there going to be any type of increase of either members or staff based on this expansion so we are presently looking at relocating people that we I mentioned uh briefly in my comments that we have in mobile office uh trailers right now we call them the modular office space um they're temporary trailers we have um many mathematicians that use those spaces uh for their permanent offices and they feel kind of like second class citizens in that space um and so we will be relocating some of them we also have a number of of retired faculty um most of our retired faculty in many schools are able to keep their offices long after they you know retire from the Institute and continue living and working in this area for many decades to come many of them into their 90s but that's not the case in some of our schools in some of our schools there's a space uh constraining where faculty after after they retire are only guaranteed an office for a handful of years instead of the number of years that they might uh wish to consider to work on campus so we'll be relocating some of the scholars that are either in Mobile spaces doubled up or not able to have offices and then in addition in this space we're creating these collaborative meeting rooms in sizes and configurations that we don't have anywhere else so those won't be adding new people you know to the campus they will be just providing spaces where um our Scholars who come here on a regular basis can work great thank you um Michael did you have anything else to add or I don't have anything to add to that oh okay great thank you I guess Michaels will be here if there's any specific questions um with regard to the operations of the existing facility okay uh Mr Cohen has a question yeah I'm sorry I need to follow up with uh Miss pararo because the statement about um retired faculty Who currently in some of your schools don't have space on campus to continue working if they wish to do so that sounds like there's potential that you do have some increase in the campus um population uh over what the current campus population would be and that's a little different than what we read in our staff reports so I just I'd like you to clarify that it goes to the question of arking sure we uh that I didn't so they they don't have Offices here anymore but that doesn't mean that they're not here every day and maybe using a table in the library or another space um you know sitting in someone else's office Etc to work so many of our faculty even they don't have Offices here um who've retired um and there's you know only a handful that are in the historical studies uh School of historical studies that live near campus um that don't have a a regular office here um if that you know they're typically here anyway um but they just have to keep a lot of their books and things at home so um it wouldn't be adding additional people coming to campus it just would provide them a space to work a dedicated thanks thanks for the clarification yeah that there's no further questions we'll move on so yes go go right ahead I don't see any other hands up okay our next uh slide is Page Three and this is just the introduction slide for our civil engineer Peter Chandler Peter um we've had you uh sworn in but I would like to have you qualified um if you could give us a little bit about your education and Licensing that would be great sure uh good uh good evening folks uh my name is Peter Chandler I'm here as the civil engineering representative for the project uh from penon Associates uh I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey have been practicing for almost 25 years now uh I got a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from New Jersey Institute Institute of Technology and again I've been licensed since 2001 and and your license is current yes it is have you testified before boards before yes I have we'd like to offer him as an expert we accept your qualifications thank you thank you um so if we could forward to slide four and Peter if you could take us through um what this is yeah sure uh so uh what you're looking at here is a sheet of the Civil uh civil engineering plan set that was submitted to the township as part of the application this is sheet C2 of the set it's entitled the overall site plan and what I've done on the exhibit is I've highlighted uh for everyone's convenience the limits of the property and the limits of the project site uh limits of the proper are shown in Blue uh I did uh make one small error that I want to point out for members of the board and the audience there is a little fingerling on the northern part of the site that extends up to Battle Creek Road uh battle Road uh I excluded that from the blue when I highlighted it uh and again the project area where the library and the plaza is are shown in the red as you can see um and the site uh is identified as block 10501 lot 1.03 in the municipality it's comprising of 69.2 acres in area it's zoned in the E2 educational and multif family residential district it's bounded on the North by battle road on the east by Olden Lane on the south by Charley Trail Charley Track Trail and on the west by Goodell and Maxwell Lanes it has multiple uh Paths of access into the site primary one being Einstein Drive off of Olden Lane which has two points of access it can also be accessed via battle road to the north and Maxwell Lane on the west there is a tributary of Stony Brook along the western uh side of the property and there is Institute Pon in the southwestern corner of the property south of the library building uh what we're proposing to do for the uh if we want to switch to the next exhibit okay what you're looking at here is the uh site plan of the Civil set that was submitted to the township that's sheet number C4 and it highlights oh I'm sorry just uh just slide number five for the slide number five it highlights the areas of impr of improvement that are proposed for the facility uh indicates the areas of the addition to the building for both the the basement the first floor and the second floor it also highlights the improvements made to the Ada access into the building and it should be noted uh as well as the changes that are being made to the plaza at the rear of the facility on the east side uh it should be noted that the EV spaces that were being designated to be added for the project at the so at the Southeastern corner of the parking lot are have been re are being re proposed to be relocated up uh closer to the Ada spaces in in response to one of the technical comets that we received we're also going to be adding some striping at the access driveway on the northwest corner of the library to prevent anyone from parking and blocking access to the new Ada curb cut again in response to a technical comment um before you advance the slide um can you just walk us through where the basement Edition the first floor Edition and the second floor Edition are I understand they're shown on this plan but it's a little small for us to be able to read that yeah so uh okay no problem um the there's a uh multi-story Edition being made along the western face of the building which faces the parking lot um that's for both the first and the second floor and also uh where the stairwell is which is the bump out uh there on the western facade of the building that will Encompass some of the basement area that's going to be improved along the sou the southern facade of the building there again uh expanding both the first and the second floor and there's a small area on the Eastern facade of the building that is going to be an expansion to the first floor only the outline and then the second floor Edition is over the entire what what the second floor is encompassing the Western facade and the southern facade of the building the areas that are cross-hatched on the exhibit okay and lastly the lastly the uh the patio area uh on the Eastern side of the building is being reduced as was previously testified to which will reduce the overall impervious coverage on the site okay I'm still a little confused but maybe when we get to the uh 3D renderings you can uh give a little bit more I'm sure the architect in his testimony can you know probably uh expand upon my testimony okay okay uh so that concludes my testimony for the evening okay are there any uh questions from board members for or from staff uh for Mr [Music] Chandler not see uh Justin letco uh yes uh and thank you madam chair uh the applicant might address this later but there was a mention of a change in the Ada and EV spaces I was wondering if he could go into more details about what that means sure um so on the plans um there's a note in the southwestern corner where we were going to designate the addition of four additional EV spaces we received a comment that uh suggested that those spaces would be better serve better serve the facility if they were located up adjacent to where the Ada spaces are now so basically sliding them up to the other end of the non-ada spaces and one of those spaces will also function as a handy where the handicap space is now so that'll be provided with uh an electric charging station okay thank you that answers my question okay uh Mr Cohen yeah I understand uh from the reports that there's no change in the um flow of storm water I know that we have a reduction in impervious coverage but I just wonder if you could talk a little bit about where the reduction is in the impervious coverage and also uh how storm water runoff from the existing building uh occurs and how storm water from the new addition portions will be handled as as well uh sure uh I'll address the components of that um that I can I think the architect might be better suited to address some of the comments directly directed towards uh the building components but overall um the the reduction in the impervious is primarily coming um from the reduction in the footprint of the uh patio surface to the east of the building uh you can see on the drawing we left both the pre-end post outlines um shown and uh it's essentially whereas before it was more of a rectangular shape uh or I guess in the current condition it's more of a rectangular shape uh in the PO in the post uh proposed Condition it's going to be uh narrowed at the southern end and uh stepped out as you can see um as you proceed you know from uh south to North and there was also previously uh three uh or I'm sorry four areas where uh pavers were not located and there's trees um that's being replaced with a multitude of smaller lawn uh lawn areas um that are shown on the plan here okay uh the about the storm water yeah go ahead sorry the the the plan is the primarily to maintain the existing uh storm water flow patterns uh everything is going to proceed radially away from the building to the east south and west and uh again it's it's it's maintaining the current P current drainage patterns the surface slow yes sir okay okay Mr leco and then Mr Anis I'm sorry anos sorry uh Madam chair I forgot to take my hand down from before okay Victor yes um the the question I I my comments really were on those two uh items you address the ads uh moving the EV closer to the ads spot um I don't know that you necessarily have to move all of it but at least one should be the ads spot but if you choose to move for the whole four closer there that's fine uh I was just wondering the other comment I had was the accessible route uh you just have this little concrete pad from the ads spot uh parking space just to the driveway is there any consideration to continue it all the way down it just looks a little uh tacky if you want to say that uh I'm are you referring to the sidewalk sir yes you want to call it side yeah sidewalk and extending that South along the edge of the parking yes all the parking all the way to the to the end okay uh no problem um so that uh element was not uh worked into the design we were focusing on uh maintaining our green initiative with the facility um and minim thereby you know component of those initiatives is to minimize our impervious surface so we wanted to provide uh obviously the Ada accessible route that was needed and we also extended the sidewalk up to where the deliveries are made uh you know when they have the infrequent deliveries of books and supplies to the library so um we did not consider extending it down um the the traffic flow for this facility as the traffic consultant will attest to later in the hearing um is is extremely low um it's it's a very unique facility and the traffic flow in and out of it is unique as well um so we didn't believe it presented any material uh Hazard for drivers that Park in those spaces to walk either on the grass or uh on the pavement surface up to where the accessible route is shown on the plans so I I just want to make clear a couple elements here because we did we did take a close look at this this facility is not like a typical Library where it's open to the public so there's there's no public that is allowed in in the facility it doesn't have any type of Tours or anything like that the it's for the members that they will be parking and using these spaces long term and there's not a lot of pedestrian movement in the direction um from that lower area so you basically have what is it one two three you know four rows of parking in a lot that doesn't have a lot of turnover um given that and that most just you know will walk across towards the entrance and that there isn't an entrance below we felt that it it wasn't necessarily to put it and it would add impervious coverage that we really don't want to add um so we thought it wasn't it wasn't a safety issue because of the you know the number of um you know the the the the chip trip generation and the unique nature of it not being open to the public these are all members that will be parking there and stack okay okay understood okay members part there uh members are a different classification they're not staff they're not faculty uh they they just pay a fee and they call members and they can go eat there can members can members exit the access the library well I'll I'll let um can I jump in yes yes gonna ask you to okay thank you so we have um so we have a term that has been used at The Institute since the beginning of time for our Scholars that are not faculty we call them members and I that's what Chris was talking about I think what you're referring to um is Friends of the Institute which we all cons also consider members of our community right okay so there are donors to The Institute who live you know in the Princeton area that we you know there's different friends levels of giving um that you can give to the institute at certain levels and that you know opens up the dining hall to you you know would like to come here and have lunch or you know meet with Scholars or go to lectures Etc and so that that parking lot is open for the people who are part of the friends um membership donor group um and largely we see them just at lunchtime if they're gonna come or to a gourmet dinner on a Friday night right thank you welome um and I appreciate you're bringing up that point Mr anos um because logic you know just looking at the way the parking lot is laid out and where you'd expect most people to park Etc you would think that there would be you know maybe even a pervious surface uh um uh you know walkway there and I I think that it's been explained you know reasonably that that it's they honestly don't think that it's needed but I do think that it's worth y'all taking another a look at the way the the parking lot is used and will be used especially after the um addition of the new um uh handicap spaces and um and EV charging and whether or not you might want to extend a sidewalk um you know down that line of um of Park that first uh row of parking I'm not suggesting that that's something I don't I don't know how other board members feel about it I'm not I'm not saying that I feel strongly about making it a condition or anything I just think it's worth you're considering and um are there other questions for and Madam chair I just wanted to just clarify based on the other comment we're relocating all those by the entrance so they're going to be up to the top where everybody would just walk straight in yeah so it's not down at the bottom where you know if you had a lot of people using electric charging stations maybe be utilizing that more now we shifted everything right by where the ramp is to go in okay and Madam chair might I add that um if after this library is built if that's not a condition of approval uh which doesn't sound like you're going that way um The Institute could always come back and file an administrative waiver if they find that they'll need you know uh if there are those desire lines the kind of dirt paths that form look like they haven't through the existing uh uh situation um but they always could come back in and file an administrative waiver if they find that they need those great thank you for that okay um Mr deia who's next yes that brings us to our architect so Martin you there Kimmel I am here hello okay great so we had you sworn in already I would like to get you qualified can you tell us a little bit about your education expertise and Licensing yes um so again I'm Martin Kimmel I'm the president of Kimmel borrett Architects which I founded some 29 years ago I am Li currently in 11 states we are active at least in nine states I have been admitted as an expert in all of those States in front of boards uh and things and I've also uh served and been uh admitted as an expert in uh many many courts as an expert witness for various types of construction related uh issues that go before the courts uh I am a uh member of the national Council of architectural accreditation boards in addition to my AIA designation which is a national um certification that allows me to be certified and licensed in any state uh with with just by paying the fee um to join that so just a quick word about your education oh yes sorry um sorry I I kind of ho right over that didn't I uh yes I I I received many moons ago uh a bachelor of architecture degree uh which is the five-year professional degree and and that was my uh education okay all right thank you we accept your qualifications thank you we're gonna page four to slide seven on A1 slide seven and you can start your your um testimony please sure I'd be happy to do that so this we wanted to give you a little uh more on the condition of the building and how the idea of of this project came to light uh and Janine did I think a fabulous job and sold some of my best material frankly about the existing building but the short of it is it's it's a pretty flat modernist building what you cannot see in this photos is there are several thousand feet of concrete cast in place Barrel Vault skylights on top of that flat roof that you see before you and they are single glazed and they have leaked light out air out heat out out and water in since their birth they were a very interesting idea uh that was maybe before its time or should have never had his time it does create though a delightful um lighting of the main floor of the library if you've ever been in there and that was really the design idea and so the Institute from the time we got involved wanted to preserve that effect in the reading room uh because it's it's just it's really what the design is all about um and you could argue the merits of parts of the design at any rate at the same time we were looking at the ability to repair that knowing that we're just going to have to fix it again and again it's like one of those things that you can put money in fix it it will fail you fix it it will fail uh at the same time the Institute identified the need for the additional offices and the collaborative space that Janine mentioned and there was sort of a kind of Eureka moment of like well what if we built the new square footage we needed over top of this failing roof and skylights uh which then allows the things that she mentioned to happen which is we don't have to develop further Land We preserve the building and we create a permanent fix to the roof because it's no longer the roof uh the design as it is is going to be built uh with your approval and all that um will have an interstitial space between the new floor and that existing roof that will allow us to with artificial LED lighting to project light through those skylights and preserve the effect as it is now which is a pretty pretty interesting thing um it will also um I'm going to talk some more about the features and then I'll show you how the design emits in one second is the building currently consumes so much energy to stay warm and cool that with the addition of the square footage that um you already noted of 23,000 new square feet will reduce the overall energy consumption of this building by some 30% and that's a if you talk about green initiatives that's a pretty amazing one and it sound right so very important so this is the before um and and if you go to the next slide please um and that is no longer lined up so our first slide was from the I guess it is I my apology um my slide is minimized here at any rate so uh we spent a great deal of time looking at modern history and how we could add a second floor to the building and you can obviously see that uh that looks new which is important it doesn't want to fake and mimic the old but it has to be respectful of the lines it has to be respectful of the geometry uh and we were able to do that and you see that um in the design before you so that provides the new square footage on top if you look to the far left of that slide you will see um that we're able to provide some much needed circulation there's a really tiny elevator in the building now which would not serve so we're able to get a better entrance and circulation to that second floor space at the left um and you know when we get into the landscape testimony um later uh you will have seen in the photos prior that the original design of the plaza was a treeless Plaza with like one signature tree and then over time Lyons were planted and it's kind of a a treat up area our hope is to kind of restore that Plaza to more of what it it originally was which is is kind of more open uh as part of and and part of the reason the lindens uh are proposed to be removed and they're also kind of end of life anyway so I can pause if there's any questions on that slide before we advance to the next could I ask a question about the vaulted ceilings and guess that would be slide seven I I don't understand how that works it's a flat roof so where are the vaulted ceilings so Christopher if you were to hop down into one of those extra slides that we have um that show the design of that because unfortunately that didn't end up in the in the top here that might be very helpful to you to see go okay in added to our um 22 slides we had some extra um optional slides in case there were questions so this is slide 25 it's all there um this is slide 25 of A1 because um uh if you're considering the additional slides as well so this is sheet uh slide 25 basically so and I'm going to this is going to be complic but I'm going to do my best to answer your question so if you look in the upper right you'll see there's uh these curved Ved things this is a section that is cut through the roof of that building what you see from the outside is a big white beam which is kind of the the angled lines behind it behind those beams on the entire roof is is built of these curved barrall and you can see that they have um there's there's fixed glass that are pointed to and then basically there's these gut um that are created by the vaults and of course they are impossible to keep from leaking over time in addition to it's everything single glazed does that help explain it yeah it does for me thank you and again and there are many many many of those so when you look from the inside that's a great photo you can see some of yeah the the water trapping that has gone on to catch it you can see the kind of delightful look from the inside that you get but um you you can kind of see what they've been facing uh below these many years is okay is that good enough thank you yeah it's fine for me all right thank you sir all right right with this we have a few more views so this is as seen from the main campus so the parking lot that we have uh been talking about in previous testimony is actually behind this photo so if you look where the building is a parking lot is down below behind and this is the part that faces the main part of Campus uh that you would access as a pedestrian so one of the com commentary was where where did the people come from the overwhelming bulk of people that are going to this building come on foot to this side of the building and they enter campus that way much much much of the parking that is is just back behind this building serves General campus use and people are not necessarily coming to this building that's one of the reasons why we didn't overemphasize that entrance but we are us using the building to create an accessible way to get from that lower parking to this upper level uh which currently does not exist okay so there's a passageway between the back and the front where you don't have to access any room and and you can just yes you can come through there's a there's an entrance and a stair and then you can you can walk down through the building and then come up an elevator uh to get to any of these other levels or to get onto campus and of course you can walk all the way around uh another building to get there as well but it's a it's a significant Improvement thank you okay all right next slide please and this is slide nine all right so this slide is as seen from the east side of the campus so this sort of faces largely open space with the pond to the left the main campus to the right and then um the parking again is behind the building in this in this setup and I'll let you go to the rendering all right so you can just sort of see how that um opens up as you would come around the building and there's not a whole lot to add here all right uh an important view that uh if you're out in the in the wooded area or you're at the pond um the build the original design of the building kind of opened to the pond and really to collect those kind of views and um you can see that we've respected that approach in in the next few so this is slide 11 and now we're on slide 12 okay so slide 12 shows the two original floors that open up now mind you what you're seeing here very clearly is we are replacing uh almost the entire envelope of the existing buildings so all of the single pane glass windows that are also a problem will be replaced as part of this and new thermally broken um you know highquality uh fenestration will be will be included that's you know one of our small but important green initiatives uh we are restoring the original teak wood exterior um for that and then we are matching that um on the floor up above and really trying to be respectful of the materials and the colors U that were have been there since 1965 can I just quickly ask is the the lower level um virtually the same footprint as the upper level of the existing yes okay so even though it's got just this one exposure uh with Windows out it's it's a full floor that's correct so the bulk of that floor is a more storage and mechanical space the front Leading Edge of it does have occupiable space and and um does get quite a bit of use and it opens out onto the lawn level which is is a really nice feature there great um does that conclude your testimony Mr Kimmel or do you have more chistopher I forget if I have another slide I apologize for that you do yeah so I have some technical I have a technical slide here for you that just sort of shows that and this is I apologize for how difficult this is to read but really we were just trying to make sure we demonstrated that we meet all the height and area you know uh obligations uh we are currently existing roof is is 25 ft um on the south side which is the high side of the building and 15 feet on the low side the on story side uh we are 42 feet roughly um with this the additional floor on the high side and 32 which is well below your required or your maximum height restriction for this site and is in keeping it with scale of other buildings on the campus for sure in fact right now if anything it's a little bit of a flattish building so it might fit a little better some might argue okay and I believe that concludes his testimony thank you our next witness will be our landscape architect unless there's some questions me yeah uh Mr Taylor yeah I I I have a practical question having been impressed with the problems that this building reflected from the very beginning and looking at the very impressive and very to me simplistically modernistic uh recommendations for the program the PO project today my question is how is it that an entity of the state of New Jersey suggested that this building should be designated eligible for historic preservation and if that's the case was this any consideration whatsoever in any of the thinking goes into today's presentation proposal Mr leco sure yeah I'm happy to jump in there so when the uh State historic preservation office looked in 2006 they looked at the whole campus for a potential nomination I don't believe they specifically uh you know address this building uh so really the process would have been if that was then acted upon they would have looked into individual buildings and said well was contributing what was non-contributing um although that being said uh some things that are hard to maintain might end up uh you know getting caught in the middle of that um but there's no specific designation on this building according or or even opinion uh as far as I know on this building yeah that that makes sense yeah that being said um certainly um Scholars uh of historical significance have done historically significant work in that building I mean so looking at it from that perspective um you know it certainly has an an important history as does the entire campus it was I'm not just I'm not saying any I'm not in any way meaning to contradict uh Justin Lesco I'm just pointing out that it's um um you know context agreed completely um but part of the reason I do bring up the kind of that there are really no historic regulations is because the Institute could walk into this building tomorrow and pull a demolition permit and take down this building you know um without any of those regulations obviously that's not what they're doing and they're looking to keep it uh and and build onto it and fix some of the issues so um I think that's a you know should be noted yeah that's great yep uh Mr Cohen yeah I just uh wanted to comment that uh I think the engineering zoning report indicated also that there was they took a look at the states um there's some kind of a listing of I don't know if it's all the buildings in the state but uh it's called a Lucy index and that index did specifically say that this build this specific building had not been reviewed or not examined is that right Justin that's what I saw in the report yeah so I I just wanted to make that comment and and also Jack you know just from a standpoint of um you know any building that's older than 50 years old can be uh designated as historic and this one certainly has some interesting features from the architectural period in which it was built and I actually appreciated Mr Kimmel's uh comments about how they tried to tie the addition to the um the original and especially preserve the interior um design features which were really the design concept behind the building to begin with so they're they're really they're preserving the aesthetic experience while solving some of the climate change related problems and you might want before you start doing work to document all the ways that the brilliant people who uh occupy that building have figured out uh water flow Dynamics and how to capture water in an that alone could be could be an interesting uh um exhibit of some sort uh Mr leco sorry go ahead yes yes and I don't want to talk too much but just to follow up on Mr Cohen's comments uh in some ways this is actually a very similar uh situation to what the board heard last week uh about the you know 1700s house next to the Stonybrook with water affecting it um you know here we just have a 1960s built library with water affecting it as our storms are getting uh more and more intense more and more frequent and I I think you know it's going to be a balancing act uh particularly you know historic buildings um be it because of their architecture because of who was in them or or you know their place in important events um so you know it's an unfortunate thing but I think that's the reality that we're seeing in many different ways right [Music] now uh Mr Cohen I just cannot resist the opening that you gave for one of my favorite architect stories it may be apocryphal but supposedly Frank Lloyd Wright when accused that many of his roofs leaked uh responded if your roof doesn't leak your architect was not creative enough Mr Kimmel you can use that if you absolutely I mean he's obviously the same person who did falling water which is wonderful but it would have fallen down eventually if it wasn't uh uh re-engineered by by others many years later okay moving on okay yes that's let's get our landscape architect John nice yes hi Chris how are you um we had you sworn in already but um if you can go through your education licensing and experience sure I'm a licensed landscape architect in New Jersey and I've served as an expert witness in New Jersey I got my degree in landscape architecture technically an Environmental Studies uh degree with landscape architecture focus and I've been practicing since 1981 excellent um thank you we we accept your qualifications thank you you so let's turn turn to slide 15 and it would be helpful if you can take us through what we're seeing and the uh Landscaping plan sure so I will be jumping around a little bit and then come back to this plan uh I'll be discussing the plaza design and landscape design issues including the challenges of the existing conditions and we'll touch on the history of the plaza a little bit Martin already mentioned how it was an open Plaza in 1965 when the building was first built the submission provides a plaza and Landscape to meet project goals these goals include fixing the paving which requires removal replacement it's gone bad I can explain a little bit more later uh providing a plaza that accommodates events as well as uh places for seating and walking through uh looking to re-envision the plaza as an outdoor space being differential to both the original 1965 Plaza design of the architect which was an open Terrace and being deferential to the Aesthetics of the Linden Grove which was added later additional goals are to accommodate and highlight The Pedestrian Roots reduce impervious coverage and to preserve the large Heritage lyen that is just Northeast of our site it's in a light green line off to the upper right on that plan very large quite amazing so if we could move to slide 17 the first challenge is that the pav 17 yeah more yes yeah a new I tric you the first challenge is that the paving has been greatly de been degraded by aging H but that degradation is also partly due to the Linden routs which has spread under the concrete slightly heaving the paving and those and those in some areas causing tripping har hazards this heaving has also caused puddling and that puddling can freeze and be a slip Hazard the puddling and overall poor drainage has also degraded the pavement through freeze and freeze and thaw action when the water sits and gets in the joints so upper left you can see where the you can see just a little bit where the paving next to the trees is higher and that's what what's happening is roots are getting under the pavement and deforming it it causes the water to stop and then along the west edge of the plaza uh in the lower left photo uh we need to access the second floor facade and the roof perimeter the contractor needs to access that to work on it so some tree removal is required there the trees just to the east to the right of that are actually some of the worst trees so once we take out some trees to get to the roof then what we're left is some of the more ugly trees and they all the interior ones are very thin um and also some of them are declining as as you can see in the lower right so they're quite packed in there and they're all fighting for space and they're having trouble in there but it is a beloved Grove of lindens but we're going to have to impact them unfortunately um given the difficulties with the lindens and the project goals uh this submission proposes a reinv vision Plaza so if we could go to slide 16 backwards uh there's a little picture in the upper center of the Dark One um we had a a nicer picture early in the presentation so the 1965 it was an open Plaza with lawn panels and a pool and a sculpture and there was actually a Linden planted back then too you can barely see it so we labeled it um the original it was a wide open space and then in the 70s it was planted with the lindens and the plaza was reconfigured just a little bit but many of those trees were put in too close to the edges of Pavements and over time they they caused a problem um when if we could go to slide 15 now so we are proposing new trees in that Plaza that helped create a space which is differential to the original 1965 open Plaza design but the the lindens are such an iconic item right now that when you look at it from the Northeast and from the north we wanted to preserve the look of having some trees so we decided to use trees that help embrace the sight make it feel like a sight but also from the outside are reminiscent of the Linden growth now honey locust have a few we've chosen honey locust for those trees they have a few advantages over the Linden it's a European species the honey locust is a native cultivar has roots that don't heat Pavements typically and provide light shade which is good for growing plants or lawn below the Institute has struggled with growing lawn and vinka under the lindens the Heritage Lindon off to the right is the same species and very happy but when is stuff in they were too stuffed in in this Plaza um we would consider using a diversity of trees instead of the honey locust but then the design would lose some of the reference to the uniformity of the linding Grove so we prefer to leave them as all honey locusts overall the seven honey locust don't detract from the overall diversity provided by the project trees and campus trees there was also a comment asking if some the Lyons in good condition could be saved within the new Plaza uh so we looked at that there's only three that could be possibly saved if they're in a reasonable position along the right side um but they would be when you take out trees out of a a Bosque out of a Grove they tend to be misshapen so it would tend to look a little funny to leave three trees there and then plant with new trees there are two more trees that are right where it says lawn there right in the middle where it says lawn in the center panel a little further down there um trees 39 and 41 that sit in the middle of the event space so we don't think we should leave those so the previous trees I talked about on the right side were 42 43 and 44 but given that the design goal is uniformity of trees for the rose of Honey Locust we don't recommend saving any of the lindens in the new plan and don't recommend uh mixing new ones and old ones here although uh John there is the one honey uh the one uh lyen that we are preserving the large one oh yes oh yes thank you for clarifying that yeah we it's very high priority to save that we are not doing any grading under the drip line of that tree we're putting up fencing we're protecting it thank you the plaza Paving will be upgraded to a blue stone or similar paver the paving pattern and Paving layout accommodate and highlight the main access routes from the upper right and from the north and Lead toward the two main doors which are aren't on this diagram the lawn panels and the plaza help reduce the impervious coverage while providing a large Gathering area for an invent uh and including the paved areas we're providing a a 50 foot by 100 foot event area minimum there was a comment from the prince from the princ and review letter package asking if this lawn could be replaced with diverse species and though we can't do that where lawn will be used for events uh we can add some perennials or grasses and the three Northern lawn squares yeah the the three above that one yep north of the building uh will be distur will be disturbed um by the construction access it's an ivy bed and we are planning to replace the ivy uh there is a large bed of Ivy already there north of that bed and it crawls underneath the bridge so we won't be able to stop that Ivy from getting into our bed it's just losing battle I personally have to face that at my house um it it takes too much effort of herb sides and weeding to try to keep it out so we have decided it is it is an invasive species but it won't go beyond this area so we are replanting The Ivy in that area so we can just replace what's there uh as a side note oh go ahead well I I I really slagged that as a just a terrible idea and I I I understand what you're saying but I I would you know when your testimony is done I'd like to hear uh from Dand rilski about um you know ways to install some kind of barrier and then plant a different um sure native ground cover because you're talking about adding I don't know like what 4,000 yeah English ivy plants which just you know makes my hair stand on it would and those trees it just endangers everything around it it's really bad stuff yeah so I would be I would love to give you suggestions so we can put a barrier in and that'll Stop The Roots it will crawl about five feet a year so it's a maintenance issue for The Institute you can't stop it from crawling over the top I would love to put all natives in there it absolutely so we just need a commitment from The Institute to keep natives to keep the ivy out of there well I would be thrilled to switch it yeah but American some native pakis Sandra or some um sge or you know something that's right yeah we could put in sges and a mixed a mix the Paka AR sorry speak in Latin golden groundsel things you do so well so yeah yeah I personally well I I don't mean to speak for the board but I but I noted that the um um environmental commission also flagged that and I do think that it's it's definitely a change that I I personally would like to see as a condition um and I hate to lose uh you know mature trees as you mentioned but I'm glad to see you know if the lendons have to go they are non-native trees they offer absolutely minimal habitat value and you're replacing them with uh with native trees that do offer habitat value I when I was looking at the comments about [Music] um uh more diversity in the tree plantings what jumped out at me was the 17 sycamores you know that may and I don't know where I guess they're going elsewhere on the property uh but I assumed that that that was you know there's 17 sycamores and one willow oak maybe fewer sycamores and and more uh oak trees other trees that absorb a ton of water and have enormous uh uh habitat value for birds and and pollinators so just I'll let that out there that's good I'll let the Institute speak to that because uh that those selections were by the Institute and some of those have already been planted so the Institute is more I I reive that list from The Institute to help balance out the trees that are needed this for this project so we'll have to have oh somebody can testify to that at some yes okay it would warm my heart to to not do the English I so good uh so sorry to have interrupted your testimony please oh that's great thank you for bringing it up I'm this is this is this is fun thank thank you for asking for that to come out um west of the building there's Hol and understory trees will uh will be planted in the area disturbed by the construction axis and they are laid out in formly similar to the trees that are there now uh we can replace some of the lawn over there too we've we've had designs that um just didn't make the submission um of improving that area with u more diverse ground Layer Two and so we can consider uh not doing all lawn on the on the west side of the tree we can add in some uh Native perennials and uh deer resistant types so we would be happy to do that too if that's what the board would want and if uh the uh Institute agreed to that right um overall 37 tree removals were already discussed and they require 55 replace basements and 25 are 24 are planted um on this image here right around the building site and the rest are at the remainder of the site so thank you for your time I I'd be happy to answer questions and uh change some species may I ask number goad Jerry the number of buildings at the University have Ivy growing up them is that all English ivy the whole the whole bed north of this is English ivy no I meant the university it there's some Boston Ivy I think there's some English ivy maybe pvy knows and I think they also have um Virginia creeper in a lot of places so it's a it's a mix poivy um yeah just on that point uh there is a mix of different ivys the Virginia creeper and also Wisteria on some of the buildings and it's um but the university um controlling those uh species is big job so uh in terms of the uh the um paved area outside the main entrance to the library I may have missed this but I I wanted to clarify currently there's these large concrete stretches and are you planning to replace that with more perious surface no we didn't need to do oh I'm sorry yes okay previous green surface surface so the gray squares what are they all the same surface so what's a little weird is when this was um processed and sent out the image went weird so the bluish area is blue stone and then those gray areas are a different type of stone okay okay it could be a different pattern so the whole area is a type of pav but we wanted to highlight the movement and provide little interest for the plazas okay but the it is somewhat perious um those stretches no no the lawn is pervious okay but not the paving and there's a couple reasons for that uh one is we didn't need the impervious surface but more importantly the given the adjacencies of the building we have this Plaza at about one to two% slope which is now 2% is the maximum you can be in handicapped for every direction but some of these areas are 1% slope so our top grading has to be perfect the pavers have to be very level and it has to be level long term so we're doing the pavers on a little bit of but then underneath it is concrete so water that gets trapped there can go through the sand and we have holes in the concrete underneath and then that trapped water can get down but most of the runoff is sheet flow that goes west to east like the existing pattern okay so just to to make it a little bit more concrete no pun intended um the is it similar to what I don't know if you've been by Firestone Library recently um but on the part of Firestone that's facing um Washington Road at the intersection of William in Washington Road there's a large Plaza there that the university recently redid and paved large sections of that are are you envisioning something along those lines I I haven't been there but this is this will be blue stone or a p that looks like blue stone beautiful stone yes that's what the university has there it's a mix of blue stone and then some other yeah brick sized gray pavers yeah um okay so I don't think we're going to do any brick-sized pavers it'll be mostly uh larger sizes and Francis hband who will be talking in a little bit um is the consultant for the campus here at the Institute and has recommended Blu stone fruit not only here but for much of the campus and she could talk about that if if you'd like I will just throw out as an idea another thing to consider might be something like ecoturf um I was recently at the DIA Museum um which is up in um on the Hudson Valley in New York near Beacon New York and they have done their entire parking area in um this ecoer and it looked amazing um another so that's just something to consider consider um another point is it like a stabilized lawn that you're talking about it's um yeah it's the EF which is these uh um type same kind of material like cinder blocks but it's thinner and then it's it has openings that go through it yeah yeah I know what you mean I will I will point out something that is unique on this this will be a continuous look of pavers mhm but about a quarter of it or or or an eighth of it is overstructure so it's architectural roof I see okay so that and that and and that affects wanted to keep a uniform look okay okay um and then with the ivy I mean I I agree with wholeheartedly with um Louise's comments uh if there's any I think the Institute um should think seriously about using native plants and Alternatives in that um areas where you're proposing to have Ivy that's great yeah we we will then the ivy will resprout from the roots from this area it'll be there we're going to drive some traffic over it I can't remember if we're removing it to uh get the access uh Drive in there we'll have to I'll have to let our engineer explain that um so yeah it'll be a fight that I I would encourage the UN The Institute to take up to and yeah go with natives this was a a plan that frankly said you know what it's gonna grow back anyway so thank you for your comments okay any other questions for Mr nstead Mr Weissman go ahead thank you madam chair uh will there be any review of the offsite planting tonight oh I replacement trees yeah yeah I would like to know more about that I assumed somebody would be testifying to about them some of which I gather have already been planted so are you the right person to talk about that Mr nistad or is it somebody else yeah Michael I speak to that thank you Michael you were already sworn in yes I was so the The Institute uh the northern face of the Institute has a uh American Plane Tree La uh that spans from the top of Einstein drive to the front of fold Hall and it is really um it is is icon of The Institute and it's been here for 70 plus years um a couple of years back we had um morus or bedum here that did a extensive inventory and Analysis of all the trees the health of the trees on campus uh provided us with an inventory of every single tree and its species and we've tagged them all um and in those reports Robert Wells actually uh did a full report of all of the landscape being in trees of The Institute and uh was very specific in that those trees um uh had an effect of life of of and of Life at about 70 plus years 70 to 80 years and these were approaching the 70-year Mark um so in order to try to preserve that LA and um um that look to the front of the Institute we decided to um plant younger uh smaller trunk uh smaller caliber trees of the same species in between the 70-year-old ones that are there now for fear that um if if they start dying off we would still maintain that uh La down front of the Institute so um we we did that thoughtfully and American plane Tre um from what we were advised were our our native to Princeton so we thought it was a good idea yes they are native and and um uh that's good to know about I know the LA you're talking about and um I I certainly understand wanting to reserve it it is it is Iconic and so it's helpful to have that that explanation have you planted all 17 of the then already okay yes yes we have and other um other plantings that are not in the immediate vicinity of this project um we we've also planted um to date about 265 Evergreen um uh Arbor uh to form more of a privacy screen along Mercer Mercer Road between the battlefield and Maxwell Lane um which are are doing very well uh they are about five or six feet in height right now and we we hope that uh in the next year or two they'll start to fill in a little bit nicer but um because of the recent well recent in the past few years the ashore issue that we've faced here and have had to remove a lot of the dead trees on campus um we've also committed to planting at least 50 trees per year for the next four years to try to make up for some of those trees that we had to get rid of so um we are well ahead of that goal um we've been planting a lot of trees and I actually have uh somebody that's dedicated to watering the trees um two days a week right now um so all they do all day long is water trees that have been planted in the last two years so and they're all doing well happy to say that's great that's great to hear and um I know that uh I mean anybody comes to these meetings knows I'm really partial to Oaks um so I know the Red Oaks are are very vulnerable these days to various um uh bacterial Leaf Scorch and other things um but I hope that you're planting some White Oaks and Willow Oaks and other kinds of Oaks because they're they're value to um birds and pollinators is just absolutely enormous and um so but it's great to hear about your overall tree planting uh ethic and your um your efforts to keep them healthy it's been incredibly dry we've um we've consulted with the with the town arborist on many occasions um right he get some input also on um on the trees and the health of the trees and um unfortunately we are facing one there's one red oak that we have that um has been uh determined to be diseased by this this new uh disease that's out there for this red oak so anyway yes we we absolutely love trees here and we will continue to plant as long as uh long as we're here thank you um Mr leco uh yes thank you madam chair and there was one other location that I don't think I heard mentioned but I might have just missed it and it's around that modular office building that was uh discussed earlier um you know these were approved in 2016 as essentially temporary trailers uh they were approved by administrative waiver uh and they were supposed to go away within 18 months of the approval or during a construction that was occurring at the time uh so think there's uh 16 of the trees are proposed to essentially screen those buildings or that you know kind of t-shaped trailer um it looks like they had already been planted but the problem we have is you know that administrative approval is really up uh particularly now because we're hearing that a lot of the workers in there will be able to move to this Library um so uh you know I'll ask Mr Weissman to chime in uh but I think you know a condition of this approval might be to rectify that situation to to get rid of the temporary trailers at which point we'll be left with trees that are screening a t-shaped nothing um so you know I don't know if the Institute has any thoughts on that um I guess from a numbers perspective they would meet the shade tree ordinance with those trees you know if they removed the the building still um but from a kind of overall landscape perspective you know for years I don't know if the best value added huh exactly exactly so so I I would like to just um comment on the um the module office space um so there there will be a point where um people will be relocated once we have the CEO for the library um and you know having that removed at that time is a reasonable condition however we would like the opportunity to either petition staff at that time or have a couple extra years because we are anticipating some sustainability and Energy Efficiency projects um very similar where we're going to need to have to relocate people for you know for a shorter period of time you know so after so after we you know focus on the library um you know for example the west building which still has single panes uh you know we have that being looked into to try to make that more energy efficient and while we're doing work there we're going to need some swing space so rather than demolish the trailers in in a couple years and then come back and try to get some sort of additional temporary um facility we would like the ability to at least um you know either talk to staff and present our timing or you know if this board is is willing to give us a couple extra years after that uh so that we could finish some of those sustainability projects where we know we're going to need some additional space okay is um is a a two years enough that you from the co I I Michael or or from the CEO I'm thinking of from now but um anyway I I I I don't want to LEAP ahead of what the our professionals think I really defer to Mr Lesco and Mr Weissman to opine on their thoughts about this but you're suggesting I uh if I could chime in I mean this this has been there for eight years uh it's become occupied it was done as administrative waiver um there was no site plan application with it which means that there's no storm water management associated with this at what point does a temporary structure become permanent um I understand the ask to have this extended I think putting a firm time frame on it um is reasonable I just to continue to put this into staff's hands if if it's been there for this long and we're requesting another extension I would just hate to get to a point that another extension is requested and then another is requested and before too long eight years turns to 15 and and we're we're back trying to figure out the situation again um alternatively I I think if the applicant were to come in and and apply for a site plan for these these structures in the time being and provide uh uh appropriate site plan requirements including storm water management um I think either either in a appropriate time frame or or a site plan approval for the modular offices I think either would be appropriate uh any any thoughts to add to that Mr leco no no I think that all seems fair I mean and then the question still is there of the Landscaping as it pertains to this application or the tree plantings I should say um you know if we know it's going away does it make sense to have those those trees there uh Justin they're already there aren't they haven't they already been planted that's how that's what it appears looking at aerial imagery they they were planted uh for the reason mentioned earlier where um uh people didn't feel like they were uh they were being given uh equal space because of they you know these were temporary office trailers versus um you know permanent offices in in buildings so we decided to uh do some plantings around them but I I assure you those plantings will not be wasted uh you know they're they would be moved if anything um those are all healthy uh trees and shrs which can be used in many other areas on this campus and um as far as a time frame for the trailers um and knowing our capital projects that are coming down the line the west building is a critical project for Energy savings for us um and my guess is uh it would be right in line after the library so if if we had to guess or request a time frame uh for those trailers to remain me I would say 5 years from now which would probably be uh 2 years uh after the completion of the library after receiving the co it would be two to three years but we could come up with a date and uh kind of present that to you more formally okay thanks for being specific about that ask we'll have to talk about that a little bit more later on unless people have members of the board have thoughts about that right now okay um who is next Mr deia H good question I believe we're down to our traffic George jacamar George you've been been already sworn in I I think there was also reference and I don't mean to um uh long meeting uh yeah um maybe we were gonna hear from Francis PA done by seven oh I'm sorry um David can you put yourself on mute I think we're hearing David Cohen thank you uh go ahead Christopher sorry yes so in terms of our presentation our next witness is George jacamar for traffic yep yep and uh we do have Consultants here that would be able to bring in and answer questions that we don't necessarily have as part of our main uh presentation but okay you know we're here to answer anything you like um but uh our next our next slot is George um and and George can you go over your your um I think he's testified before this board many times but George can you just briefly go over your qualifications yes good evening um I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and other states uh my license is um current and I um have testified in front of this board for many years um my education is that I have an engineering degree from poly Technic Institute in Lozan Switzerland and a master's degree in planning from Stanford University thank you Mr jacar we accept your qualifications thank thank you I think the main point in terms of parking and traffic for this application is that there will not be any U noticeable or any traffic and parking impacts because there is no increase in faculty and staff or or members associated with this project as we heard before um the next slide 19 um here we present the results of a more detailed parking study that was done in uh 2016 uh that shows you know the parking demand peaking at about 159 160 spaces on the academic campus so that's a campus that's west of Olden Lane and the point here the reason I show this graph is in response to comment by or question by Mr anos asking that we confirm that parking on the academic campus Peaks around 1:00 and 2:00 uh so that here this graph shows that very clearly the next chart uh slide number 20 this is a slide that we included uh in our application in the ladder that we submitted to the uh municipality basically to show that today even that there's still significant parking reserves you can see for the major parking lots that we survey and these surveys were done through uh drone photography over several days in May of 2024 and you can see the occupancy ranges in the range of 58 to 64% uh so they still significant parking vacancy on the campus another kind of uh side point which is kind of interesting is that the total parking demand in May 2024 probably ranged is if you add the parking demand for those few spaces that were not surveyed with the Drone photography probably is in the range of 130 131 cars which is less than what was uh determined in 2016 2016 the total parking demand was about 160 cars on campus so basically that's my testimony I'll be happy to answer any questions uh thank you any questions s related to Traffic testimony I'm not seeing any thank you very much Mr jacar thank you any other uh Witnesses Mr degia yes I'd like to bring back Janine picaro our chief operating officer to talk a little bit about the bike bikes you know bike storage at at the campus um we are going to be requesting a variance um so uh I would like Janine to kind of um uh talk a little bit about you know bike storage on campus and um what the current needs are great thank you so similar to Georgia's study on parking we tried to duplicate you know a similar time frame for oncampus bicycle parking um we went around and counted the number of bicycle parking spaces we have currently on our campus and which buildings they were next to which is uh reflected here on the slide um we have presently more than 150 bicycle parking spaces available next to or near just our academic buildings on campus um the date and time stamps are probably a little small to too small to read here but this was actually from this Monday uh between 1 and 2 pm um in George's uh study between 1 and 2 p.m was the peak time for parking of cars on campus it's also you know our busiest time on campus you know it's around lunch seminars lectures Etc and only 24 of our bicycle spaces of the 150 plus uh were used during that peak time of day this week um we're a small academic campus we've said this before earlier where it's easy to walk from the easternmost Scholars housing apartment to the westernmost academic building in about 10 minutes if you're Meandering um probably a little quicker if you walk faster so our campus is much more walkable um than say Princeton University's campus which is much larger and you see more bicycles there most of our Scholars uh use who use bicycles use them to get to town or to the University's campus but there just aren't as many who bike across with their bicycles um to our campus um on that note we have you know of our Scholars we have maybe a quarter of them every year that are international and they don't have cars here on campus so the bicycle is their means of transportation to further spaces or our shuttle van um but not necessarily to campus um so to get a sense of the need for the library building presently on this chart the west building and Simon's dining hall are the two buildings that are closest to the library um and the parking outside of West building is typically where many people who come to the library would put a bike if if they were going to bring one um because it's the closest spaces the picture up here in the upper right hand corner um with no bikes park there midday Monday um is the one that was closest to the library the next closest one is Simon's dining hall which is right below the 150 number on the screen the picture there we had six um bicycles park there um at uh just after one on uh on Monday which makesense because the dining hall is open until about 1:30 for lunch and you know we did you know I I talked a lot earlier about how econscious our campuses um we do encourage bike riding um and based on you know what we typically see here on campus we have Ample Storage and parking for bikes um we also have a mini repair shop where people can fix their bicycles um with tools we Supply here as well um so as Chris said we will be respectfully requesting a variant for this project from the 44 spaces that are required by code based on the square footage of the building um we will be proposing the addition of 12 more bicycle parking spots adjacent to the expanded uh Library building um but we feel that that will be um sufficient based on the typical usage that we see on campus on any given day um thank you Mr Cohen just for a question about the these lower two uh left left photos those I can't quite tell if there are bike racks there or not it seems like the bicycles are to or to some to each other or just so there's a there's a clear railing here by the dining hall that you know has spaces with like plexiglass through them but there are actual bike racks it's the shadowing of the bicycles that are there and the shadowing of that railing that are kind of uh dis disguising the racks very similar to all the other racks that you see here the one up here in this corner picture it's the same sort of rack it's just not that visible okay I I will just comment that that type of rack doesn't meet the ordinance uh either they're um they're not very good for Ling bicycles too and so uh are you talking about the the ones that at the top the picture on top yeah totally agree looks Terri pararo is pararo is also saying that there are similar recks uh in those two pictures that I was referring to I'm not surprised there are no bikes there yeah so so a comment that I would have certainly would be um that if we were to Grant this variance I would like to have some kind of a plan for converting the non-conforming bike racks to conforming bike racks over some period of time um thank you David Mr Weissman thank you sorry some technical difficulties um just a comment and then a quick question uh so the code uh permits an alternative option for Institutes of Higher Learning for providing bicycle parking spaces um they can either provide them in accordance with the schedule which is how we arrived at the 44 parking space variants or they may provide an annual report documenting campus-wide bike parking obligations the total number of Park uh spaces provided on the campus and a mitigation plan to address any shortfall uh the breakdown for the determination for that um required parking is different than the schedule uh it's 0.4 spaces uh per faculty staff and student and that's a campus-wide obligation um and then there's a separate breakdown for requirements for dormitories which is included in that that campus-wide obligation um so that being said that is an option that the applicant has and I just wanted to confirm with the applicant that they do not intend to use that and they do intend to request the variants so this is a a very uh different type of institution um where they they're not going to have a lot of change or you know growth in terms of uh like you see at something like another institution say like Princeton University so rather than do that um annual report since um you know they they wanted to kind of just look at this particular project in the need and request a variance to the extent that they were deficient from the ordinance requirements so let's just take a step back we're looking at a survey done this month where the weather is warm and you have a a large amount of bikes out at this time of year and you're at 16% utility so there are a tremendous number of parking spaces even so we're looking at adding some some additional you know a dozen with regard to this project that we'll be happy to locate but the reality is unlike a typical project even though we're expanding beyond the ordinance and hitting that threshold we're not adding any new members or staff or you know any other users of the facility so the we're you know the expectation is the biking is still going to be at you know 20% utility or less um and that's why we're asking for a variance because it is you know we're expected to not have a need for it and if there is a need the first thing they would do is go out and build some more parking um for their their you know the the members um like we said this is a campus where they're living very close in walking distance to the buildings and you typically see the bikes going from residence into the downtown or into Princeton um and that's where you know that's where the the bike pattern typically follows wh while this is more of a walking pattern um and that's why we're asking for relief from the ordinance because it it doesn't make sense to go you know we have 80% now availability and to build just more just you know really doesn't make sense Christopher given what you just said why are you proposing 12 additional spaces what's the thinking of well we were just offering that because you know because of I mean we you know originally we weren't proposing that uh but if the board felt like we needed to put additional spaces we would do that um reduce the variance from 44 to um you know 12 less or if you're looking at the west building as part of that you know 18 counted towards the 44 cuz it's in close proximity I don't know the reality is we're here asking for a variance because it's not needed and basically that we don't need the 12 either we were just offering that because we were just you know to show that we're we're proposing some even though we don't believe there's a need okay thank you with all due respect though I don't think this study if you could call it that was done by an engineer or on Multi days at multiple times uh you know I don't know what's being counted as a space is it each uh kind of slot in that rack uh so you know I'm very I don't doubt that the Institute is you know providing the parking that they feel they need but at the same time I highly doubt that this is really any sort of admissible data uh to make any to draw any conclusions I mean if we walked out on the campus right now we could say well zero spaces are occupied I mean it's nine o'clock at night uh you know so I'm I'm just wondering why you know we're here again we had a similar case like this relatively recently where the bike parking ordinance is being treated as uh you know a a nice thing um a thing we could ignore but Mr jacmar just gave a full testimony about car parking and we're not getting the same thing here so I'm just you know yeah thank you for that Justin and um I I apologize if the tone of my some of my comments earlier sounded dismissive or rude I uh about the type of wreck that's in the picture up top um it is uh um you know not a wreck that is um particularly useful to people with the you know the kind of bikes that most people have nowadays and um and there's no not more than you know three or four uh spaces in that what looks like 10 anyway um I I um personally don't have a huge problem with um a variance if the [Music] um uh if if there's a a clear understanding based on the uses you know the the usage people see every day of the bike facilities um is that there's already more than enough I do think that adding more makes sense and I agree I think um that Mr Cohen said and if so I agree that the non-complying um existing bike um rack facilities like we see in the top picture need to be replaced with compliant ones um in areas where bikes are most uh most often parked that's my opinion if I could interject is that okay I'm no longer test okay um because just is witnessed to a lot of the communications that we as we've gone through this ourselves of what we should do and the goal that the the institute's always given us to do the right thing and the thinking on the campus was is if we provide a bunch of bike racks or covered bike parking spaces that no one will use it creates actually a negative environmental effect because you're going to embed a bunch of carbon and a bunch of stuff that doesn't get used and they're trying to hit the right number and and that's really what we want to do with you and I'm sure that's what you want us to do um so if if you give us a little guidance of how we could better um show you that this is the demand we already meet or exceed it I think we would be delighted to do that because I think we're all on the same page and I'm just offering that as as a witness to all the communications on both sides at this point Christoper maybe somebody testify with respect to this chart who prepared it um and what time of day it was uh it was done it's time stamped so that you know what time the the day it was in the middle of the afternoon so it would capture the lunch hour so this is usually if you're going to get anybody biking it would be um during that time where the meals are served um because that's when you would have the largest amount of people during midday where the seminars are scheduled um it this was just a survey to show and um so that we have that buff or that extra um amount that's why we're proposing to to build 12 spaces that would definitely conform to the ordinance requirements in and near right next to the library so that it would you know protect and be over even though we think we don't need any it would be a buffer of an additional 12 and again we're not talking about thousands of people here um it has a very small membership sh and staff um so it's the numbers are not staggering and it's not open to the public so we have a very good control on what we actually need um and this was just a survey done on a sunny day where we expected to have a lot of uh people on bikes during midday thank you okay uh Mr Cohen and then misss Nuka and then Mr bodimer so a couple of comments uh in regard to several of statements that were made uh first of all I think that there is a connection between racks that are not um easy to use or or uh or or secure which is that sometimes people will park their bikes elsewhere like locked to a tree or lock to a sign also if the the racks are not in the right places for for the users so this this touches on Justin's comment of you know whether it's a scientific study I think a real study of bike parking on on The Institute campus would have to document bicycles that are not parked at bike racks as well as bicycles that are parked at bike rcks also users will bring their bicycles inside if it if the bike racks are not secure and bring them into their office but if it was a good uh a good bike rack they might very well have left it outside so that was one of the comments I wanted to make was that the fact that these racks these particular racks are empty does not indicate to me that people are not riding their bicycles um second comment I want to make make it is in response to what Mr Gia was just saying which is that there aren't a lot of people on this canas and if that's really the fact and I don't know what what you mean when you there are not a lot of faculty and staff and students I know there are no students actually um you know if it's 500 people then that alterative that's in our ordinance to say 04 rcks per per per person you know could actually be advantageous to um to The Institute in terms of the overall Demand right so you might you might you you might do the calculation and find out that 150 spaces is actually in line with our with our ordinance uh using that alternative method so I wouldn't reject that out of hand um yeah I think that and and I'll just reiterate that I think it's important to have for the bike brakes that you have to be usable secure um um which which the current ones are not so that would would be a condition uh that I would reiterate that I would would support yeah some of the current ones are not not all right it looks like um I the EAS I'm not sure if any of them do well it looks like the easiest one to park that has the most space in the standard only has one bicycle which is kind of ironic one to the right in the center that's true you know but a lot has to do with how convenient the racks are to the places where they're wanted and whether it's covered yeah um Muka and then Mr bodimer um yes I think uh others have already kind of um made the same points but I agree with u Mr Leo's uh statement earlier that it it would have been nice to have seen a slightly more thorough version of this survey um and with regard to the proposed 12 bicycle Spaces by the library I think the placement of bike racks is very important and so having spaces available next to buildings where people will be going is very important so for that reason I would want to see that um that maintained even if the variance is granted and again with the covered bike parking that does make big big difference having actually usable racks and covered racks um I have two posts who bike in and they bring their bikes into the office um every day because they don't want to leave their nice bikes outside um in in the weather so you know that's something else to think about um I understand that Institute campus it's a small community um you don't have students um but you still have a fair number of of people cycling and um that might be something to think about as you're your planning uh going forward thank you thank you Nat you're on mute uh I'm I'm curious uh about the an approximate cost estimate of the number of bike racks that it would that are being discussed here um in total as and also as a share of the proposed renovation costs of the library anyone answer that doesn't have to be a precise answer um I'm not sure who would have that information can can you restate that you just want to know the relative cost approximately like what what are we talking about here in terms of a a cost for the number of bike racks that are being requested to comply with the ordinance and what is that number as a share of the total Library renovation cost we're talking is a significant fraction are we talking like is this a is this a you know a significant share of the cost is it a DI Minimus SP like what are we talking about are we are we talking about something that's easy to do small potatoes is it going to break your bank what what are we talking about I I I think it's not a cost in terms of price more than a cost in terms of you know space and Aesthetics you know we don't want to have an area let's not be too precious about that please I mean that's really my my wife just has spent her sabatical at the Institute and she you know has bike there as she does to the campus so I mean it's just not you know this is not a you know this is not the holy supp no no no I know but the the issue issue is that we've you know like our parking we've testified that we're not changing the program so the people that are biking there are going to be the people that are biking there the people that are driving there are going to be the people that are driving there we're gonna see listen my question listen my question is if you're going to comply you have the latitude to to design things as you have with the library to conform with your with your uh you know with your design athetic at The Institute so I I this is you know I appreciate the cleverness of your response and your redirect on my question but my question is really tell me about the money is this big or not I don't have I I guess I can look to somebody of someone um to see if they have the answer but in my mind it was an offer 12 spaces rather than 44 because 12 space is you know takes up much less room um Michael do we have any information on cost I don't I don't know if we we don't we don't have specific specific information on cost black racks but I can tell you that it's not significant it's it it really isn't about the money at this point we we we we were just trying to make a case that the spaces that we do have available are not being used and more so the risk of uh I mean this is you know deflecting from like it sounds like we're you know we're really like this right now on this discussion this is not this is obviously a difficult one so I'm gonna run the risk of suggesting is there a bike related infrastructure investment that you would be you would think would be more valuable for The Institute that would improve the biking environment for both the community and uh the you know your your your Scholars on at The Institute who biked a town um and so that's one question the first question is is there something that would be beneficial to the community and to The Institute that you would rather spend an equivalent amount of money on that you would have been spent had to spend on the racks if you were going to comply with code and is that something that is within the latitude of the planning board I'm now asking planning board staff and attorney is that within the latitude of the planning board to request or condition as part of a variance uh I could tackle that one first and Jerry feel free to jump in I think any uh you know sort of condition to alleviate the variance would be more based on number and purpose than money necessarily um so if the board you know says as long as there's let's just throw out a number 25 short-term outdoor spaces and five you know longterm indoor spaces um you know I would feel much more comfortable with that and again those are just madeup numbers um than I would with you know X dollars need to be spent um actually this Monday at we're moving forward with Hines plaz or nasau Street discussion and bike racks are on the list and it's really it it goes from the Spartan you know comb ones or wave ones all the way up to ones that you know look like modern art at this point so you know I think if if money is not necessarily the concern if Aesthetics and location are are more of the institutes cons concern um you know I think Aesthetics could certainly be figured out uh with some Scandinavian designed bike rack uh and location you know there's a decent amount of area uh around this large Library um can I I'm just then I just I'll just say just going back because it is the testimony of the of the Institute that the bike racks are not numbered as a numer as a matter of numerical demand and it's also their testimony that if Scholars are going to be using bicycles they're going to be using it to get to town and I'm not persuaded that the that that the bike infrastructure between the Institute and town uh has no needs that could be improved so there must be there must be something and I'm not trying to deflect from what you said Justin thank you for for that but I just wanted to make that point again um you know what's a way out of this so can I say something else so we received the comment we received the comments on you know 10 days ago or so you know a week or so ago um you know we tried to do a you know quick survey to be responsive to the question that was asked of us um we didn't have time to do a proper bicycle study from the 18th to today and so we were you know trying to give an indication of of what we know you know as you know individuals who have worked on this campus for a while and what we typically see um to be responsive to this question um this is really not a matter of money I mean we we'd always try to comply with a town um you know we offered to put in 12 more spaces because you know we did think about the alternate um calculation in the anre report that Dan had suggested in terms of you know 04 based on the number of Faculty staff and students that you have if you're an academic institution we would basically meet that requirement based on the number of spaces that we currently have today so I think maybe what we could do is take a look at the current bike racks that we have you know we're in the process of doing like a mini campus plan and thinking about all of our walkways and egress and accessibility Etc and so why don't we agree to take a look at the racks that we have upgrade the ones that we need to and you know take a little bit of a a further look at this in terms of a longer study or um think about you know filing this report to the town to to suggest that we meet the requirements as it is today um or something along those lines and you know I'm sure that there's a place that we could you know be in in compliance with the requirements of the code you know we were just trying to be responsive this evening to the question that was posed to us but Mr bom as I understand it now when he's talking about bike infrastructure he's talking about off-site infrastructure to accommodate the scholars and staff that are taking bikes to town is that fair to saying that is it though again and that was that it is a that was a question I mean it was is is you know I was wondering if there's a way to get out of the the where the conversation felt to me to be to be which is as a matter of principle we on the planning board and the on the the Town Council are uncomfortable with what feels like an evasion of and a discounting of the importance of the bike parking requirement and on the institutes side they're saying look it's not it doesn't seem necessary and that's an argument that's pretty hard to resolve you know and insisting on something that's not necessary for the point of for for the purpose of a principle it's that's this is this is the discussion that's going to go around and around in circles be very conflictual and so that's why I'm asking the questions that I'm asking to see if there's some other way that this might be resolved within our Authority and to the satisfaction of The Institute and us the planning board and the municipality so I'm I'm really just trying to I'm trying to that's what I'm trying to do trying to get you're right Jerry stop stop going around in circles and I and I I mean I take the Institute uh at its word that they just were trying to respond to to uh comments in um in memos and also you know get a sense document uh the conditions give us a snapshot um on a beautiful fall day when biking you know you'd expect a lot of people to ride bikes if they um were inclined to do so but um uh I do think that if um I'm still not clear on whether if uh the the 12 um spaces or the 12 slots that were um that are proposed to be added plus um replacing the um existing uh bike parking that is not compliant does that get to the 150 number that um you know that is considered uh um appropriate under ordinance based on the 04 uh figure per people on campus I'm sorry I'm just I hope I I hope my meaning is clear does that does that get us to that number or or is 44 additional parking uh bike parking slots in our view needed to get us to the 150 number do you see what I'm asking I I I think we can't answer it tonight Louise it depends it depends what well we have to I mean to to Nat's point we have to come to some conclusion tonight I don't want I agree completely I agree I agree I mean we could we could agree to do a report I'm sorry we could agree to do a report every year you know we were just trying you know we're a very small staff so what we were trying to do is to avoid adding another annual report that we need totally totally get that y yeah but we could absolutely do that every year if we needed to okay maybe Justin can comment on what type of report would be acceptable I think the first report you know would have to show where all your bike parking spaces are currently and what your count is and then as you indicated because things don't change very much from year to year at The Institute followup reports could be very low effort but Justin I don't do you want to comment on that yeah uh well so for comparison sake we get a report from Princeton University every year about all their transportation um and it's about 30 pages you know so that's I don't know tenfold bigger than than uh The Institute and that includes car parking that includes everything else so you know it's we wouldn't be talking a you know even 30 page report annually but I I do understand the concern about you know just not wanting to add another thing um that report though as stated in Dan's memo uh does include uh you know documents campus-wide bike parking obligation um and the total number of spaces provided on campus and a mitigation plan to Pro to address any shortfall now if it was the board's uh you know if the board maybe said well we don't want to make it an annual requirement but to to allow for this variance we'll do that one time and you know kind of clean things up at once I mean maybe that could be a way forward if Jerry and Christopher agreed that that made sense um you know I don't know if from The Institute side they would necessarily want that because that means you know documenting and replacing everything um so it really is just a matter of are we looking at this as one site that needs 44 uh spaces under our ordinance or are we looking at this as a campus wide that gets the annual plan or at least the onetime annual plan and I think that's where um you know there is some leeway for the board and the in to to decide which way to go um but you know the just the other part of this is the 44 space requirement uh you know what we would hear for that to provide a variance would normally be what we hear for car parking you know here's and I just think it's more more detail than what we heard tonight um and how EXA you know just think about some of these these ones we hear for car parking it's we have X number of employees and and you know 20 of them uh live here so they're not going to drive and then five more you know we'll put five spaces for for the five that are going to drive um we haven't really heard that type of analysis tonight so I hope that didn't open up more questions than it uh you know solved um but that's you know I think where we're at with this yeah and if I could just add one quick thing um there's been a lot of talk about how it's a small population of and staff but maybe somebody could tell us what it is it must vary from year to year a little bit but probably not a lot but we haven't heard what the number is so we invite typically approximately 190 we we welcome about 190 to 200 members per year um and we have approximately 160 full-time equivalent faculty and staff on this campus so you know 400 is a good estimate you know there's not 400 people on this campus every week of every month obviously like summers are much less our terms are not as long as a university we have 13 week terms instead of a 15we um you know academic terms um so you know our numbers are our highest from September to December and then from the end of January to the beginning of April is the end of our academic terms so you know there's not the the numbers on this campus I would say if we were going to use a number to estimate it would be approximately 400 and at the point 4 that's about 160 bike parking spaces so we're very close to where we are which is why I was trying to represent a snapshot tonight for the committee because you know the reporting you know we could do the reporting but we're we're right about there in the ballpark so you know if we think about updating some of our bike racks we look at the the code you know I think I think we can get there a compromise here for you know and I think we're in compliance we may not have the best racks you know and they may not all be consistent but I think the number of spaces that we have currently on this campus are probably at the level that they need to be based on that calculation um it's just a matter of which way we look at it and Ju Just quickly in terms of the number you you said you get about 190 uh invitees every year and in addition to that you have a more I guess it's more permanent scholarly SK uh Scholars of about 160 that's faculty and so that faculty and staff so those are our and staff employees that we pay we have about 160 and we have you know somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 um members as we call them Scholars who are invited to come and spend time at the Institute whether it be for one you know ter term or for an entire year some of them are multi-year but on average that's kind of where we we are okay great thank you so when you said 400 um that's all yeah yeah thank you okay uh Mr Cohen um and then uh Miss PR letter right Mr Co then then not just in l not sorry about that I got cut off that's okay so um yeah I so I want to offer an opinion which is I do think that the community and The Institute will be better served by taking a campus-wide approach uh rather than going for 44 parking spaces at the library so I think I'm agreeing with uh Miss pararo I think that what I would recommend is to you know get somebody on this team for this project to do the first study for you of the where are the bike racks on campus right now do a map with them indicate which ones meet code in terms of the design of the racks and uh you you know you already know what your campus population is so um and and that same consultant should propose how the bike rck will be upgraded whe we'll be able to fit the same number in the current locations which doesn't seem to be the case because they're very dense those racks that were shown in the pictures so you may lose a few spots when you're converting to compliant racks and then you should know where you're going to be adding racks to make up for the ones you're losing I think that that's the that's the report and if it's not a burden on staff because you're hiring someone to do it for you that future reports should be very simple to do just in terms of saying same information as last time except we've upgraded five of the racks this year we've upgraded 10 other racks next year so we're getting closer and closer to to the goal so um that would that would be my preference my recommendation is that that's the way we should approach this and um I appreciate the institute's willingness to to uh sort of go in that direction which I which I think I heard you did so David just so I understand we would do essentially a survey include the the new 12 that we're proposing and then um but and then periodically we don't have to do it all at once but over time we can update and report on making them in compliance so for example we may have 12 spaces somewhere else and then the next year we may have 10 there or 15 there that are compliant depending on need and we can we can do that report and provide it to the municipality right and I just hesitating to call it a survey Chris because I'm not asking for what Justin was talking about before in support of the variance he wanted a survey to really understand the demand and how many bikes there are not just how many bike parking spaces there are one of the appeals of going with this campus-wide approach is you're going you're you're aiming for point4 parking spaces per member of the community you don't have to worry about how many of those spaces are filled um you know so uh that's a lot easier study to do it's really it's sort of a planning study rather than a traffic study if you will it's a planning study that identifies where you have spaces whether they're compliant where you prop you know how many you can accommodate in those locations if you make them compliant and if you can't accommodate the same number where you're going to uh add additional ones as you transition the campus to be compliant that makes sense to me David yeah thank you for thank you so much for laying that out so clearly I mean and and what I what I take from that is that you know the campus-wide approach starts with a study or report on existing condition conditions locating the racks identifying which ones comply which ones don't how you're going to replace the ones that don't comply with ones that do and where those go um and um that sounds exactly right I I think it's very very reasonable too so thank you we we'll surely do that yeah but that study would and that puts you in compliance um it puts you in a position to comply with ex exactly what we require and do it in a way that's systematic and helps you to upgrade and update what you already have yeah I was actually gonna something along the same lines which is that this could be handled administratively and I I I am uncomfortable just saying well we think we know what the numbers are but at least get what the type of report that you need whether you do it area you know campus-wide or just here you know that's up that I would leave up to Justin I can't tell that but at least up in the record so that we can feel that we've got what we need but at the same time not hold this up and let it be done as on an administrative level and let them work out what it is they really need and how and uh the annual reports Etc which which you probably would want but I yeah but the the condition can lay out what's expected in order to get to what's required by the by the ordinance to comply with this you know withing and it can be done in a way so that you know that doesn't have to be laid out right this tonight but it can be done so that Jerry can draft whatever he needs and it would be put then in terms of the uh you know they would work with the with Justin to work out whatever it is they need over time but um I I think they there is some need to I mean I think they do have to meet the requirements you show that they meet the requirements right but with a campus-wide approach rather than the 44 in the immediate vicinity of this building yeah and if the numbers that they gave us in that one chart are at all accurate and you added the 10 to that and you multiply 400 time 04 Bingo you write at the number and that 400 is a little more than the actual numbers they they gave us yeah so okay so we are um it's 9:41 by now we almost always would have taken a 10-minute Break um I forged ahead thinking we might be done by now but clearly we're not and we H have members of the public there are eight people from the public who um are here so I'm not saying we won't take a break I do think it makes sense to but I want to know um if any members of the public intend to to address the board tonight would you please virtually raise your hand right now okay so there's at least one Andrew suin um any other members of the public wish to speak okay we have just one one member of the public what I would like to do is um open unless there are other questions from board members for um the expert Witnesses uh and I'm not seeing any hands go up I'd like to hear from the member of the public that wishes to speak um and and then uh consider taking a fairly short break before we reconvene and button this up does that Louise do you want to hear from any testimony from our experts first um yes yes I guess that uh is the right thing to do I'm sorry uh thanks Jerry so um Dan Weissman or Dan der rilski or Victor anos do you have anything to add to what you you've already said that you think the Board needs to consider before we hear from the public uh if You' like if you'd like Madam chair you just run through quickly a couple of the staff comments if the applicant just wanted to address them um but we'd request that the applicant obtain a current njd freshwater wetlands letter of interpretation for The Institute Pond agreed D Dan just hold on a second let let me just grab your report okay so what page you starting on it would be page two oh page page what unnumbered but it would be 4.0 A1 right correct correct okay really helpful to number the pages going forward go ahead uh they are now okay yes the the format I was using previously uh yeah no it it made the modification already um on section 4.0g uh requests that the uh applicant utilize the same Construction route of Maxwell Lane as was pre okay uh bicycle parking we talked about parking was discussed um and that's it and then the only other thing was the standard comments yep your comment one we we agreed to the detectable warning surfaces talked about the parking yep that was it thank you thank you Dan um uh Victor ano CK do you have anything to add oh actually I have one other comment and we did ask for that additional time with the module office space um I think Michael had tesi oh yeah five you know that was the only other issue there I I I don't want to deal with that right this minute I'd rather hear from the public first but yeah Victor anything no nothing uh I think God my comments have been addressed okay thank you uh D rilski no I have nothing to add I think the applicants presentation and the questions from the board uh really resolved all the landscape issues that could be there okay great thank you uh did I miss anybody Justin has his Justin Justin just one last thing um it seems like there's going to be a big flat roof on top of this building or maybe multiple roofs um obviously uh The Institute uses geothermal energy so solar might not be that important you know to them um but echoing a comment in the PEC memo has there been any thought to a solar array or even a green roof or you know even white paint to reflect the sun it it was looked into but it was determined based on you know structural evaluation um that it wouldn't be appropriate here so so for example we were focused on um preserving the historic uh or the I should say the building below um and the structure built sort of around it when you take in the uh you know the wind weight uh and and I guess our Arch Tech could talk to it it just from a structural standpoint wasn't wasn't a good idea that's good enough for me I think because of the geothermal system at the campus yeah and the roof will also be white great oh good that's great to know thank you okay any other questions from board members all right um thanks Jerry for keeping me between the ditches um uh Carrie will you bring over Andrew sutfin okay he should be joining us okay um Mr activate your cam activate your camera too I see you've unmuted yourself that's great I I I don't have a camera but I have a face made for radio I've heard that before so so so first of all I want to we need we need to sweare you in first I'm sorry that's right I I'm raising my right hand or affirm that the testimony about to give will be the truth absolutely sir okay and so SW please set your full name for the record and spell your last name Andrew T suin spell your last name SU p i n thank thank you okay go right ahead so my expert testimony is based on that I've been a wonderful user of the IAS for 62 years tomorrow nobody has to wish me happy birthday happy birthday and I love the Institute I learned how to use a compass there I took numerous classes I learned how to fish I learned how to fall out of a tree there Etc and have taken a incredible amount of classes there and uh lectures and I think that this is a wonderful opportunity to fix this building which I've watched from 1967 leak I think it's just terrific uh my first concern which you all addressed was uh I have been asked by my neighborhood I live in the uh Institute neighborhood which is basically uh populated by uh resident Scholars so full-time Scholars which I think uh The Institute left out they have full you know people that are tenured Scholars that live there and in fact I have one of their telephone numbers which is always very interesting to get calls from uh around the world in the middle of the night when uh Atomic things happen and uh and also uh uh my neighborhood I probably bring our neighborhood down in uh IQ because uh everybody is either a Nobel Prize winner or a Maxwell Prize winner or an AEL Prize winner Etc but uh I have no skin in the game so I can actually say what my neighbors are concerned about and uh essentially it's really uh something that Mr jackart Jack uh uh discussed and that is that over the past 12 years we've seen and yes nothing happens quickly on the campus of The Institute uh but there's a slow expansion that happens so we've seen wolfes in Hall being built we've seen blue uh Bloomberg Hall being built we've seen and I may have the uh chronology of this wrong uh we've seen uh the Simon dining hall being expanded with a 2500 squ ft wine seller which is lovely got to say that's the size of my house uh Mr Sean you're you're sort of running out of time so I'm I'm trying to speak as quickly as I can okay good thanks so all all all of this infrastructure at The Institute has been uh expanded over the uh past 12 years but the infrastructure feeding the Institute which was testified by Mr Chandler uh and also uh councelor deia and also Mr Sone who sees a expansion coming for the west building is it appropriate for the campus of the institute for advanced study to have its two main entrances on a residential Road Olden Lane I I I was born here in Princeton and Princeton University had its main entrance on Nassau Street Mr suin I I'm sorry to interrupt you I I really am um I I think we get your point the concern that I have um is that this um what you're discussing is is not what's before uh the board tonight um and um uh unless you have a a very very quick comment that is specific to um the project that we're um that we are considering and the requirements directly associated with that um you know the the the the driveway access uh you know from Olden is is just not relevant to this application I'm sorry to say that is true thank you um thank you and thanks for your patience um I know it's been sort of a long night um are there any other going back to look at the attendees are there any other members of the public who who wish to speak to the board tonight about this specific application and its requirements I'm not seeing any so I'll close the public comment portion of the meeting and [Music] um uh it's five minutes to 10 or 7 minutes to 10 um I think just for the sake of Bio break Etc um I would like to to break for until 10 o'clock sharp if that's all right with people and um reconvene and um button this down so okay sounds good see you at see you at 10 o'clock uh so start thank you Carrie um I'd like to start by tackling the um modular offices issue [Music] um in 2016 the expectation was that that would be in place for eight months um if we uh were to agree to the suggestion that we give them five more years that would be going from 18 months to 13 years which is completely not okay um in my opinion uh so uh I really I really feel like the applicant needs to well Justin you have your hand up I I will let you speak your piece and then we'll talk about what needs to happen here yeah I've been sorry to cut in um I think as we started to discuss before uh if and again I'll defer to Jerry and Christopher if had to make this a agreed upon condition but if there was a condition that the applicant remove the trailers uh or get site plan approval prior to the certificate of occupancy uh that would you know not put a date on it because we tried putting a date on it um but it would put you know a requirement on it uh and one that I think you know we're not trying to be harsh when there clearly is going to be a need for this uh but just to to you know bring everything above board yeah that that's exactly where I was going um Justin so um thank you for that with just um connecting it you know either a removal or a site plan with the co I think is a really good um way to go I do other board members have opinions or that differ with that or and if I could just add one more thing before that we as staff you know I talked with Dan about this earlier we'd be f with working with the applicant you know if they uh received a temporary Co while this was happening because obviously if they need need to move people from one building to another you know we can't wait to see one and then you it just wouldn't logistically work so I think we'd be happy to work with them uh on a TCO first as well Justin I'm not sure what what we would be doing then okay I understand that if we had a condition that said we you got to remove the trailers or get a say plan approval prior to TCO now you added something to that but I'm not sure how that would work uh prior to the full Co they would one of those two things but obviously they can't take the trailers down and leave people without a place to work so that's why we would work with them with the TCO so I'm I'm not sure is so not sure what you're suggesting you know what we're trying to avoid is trying is going through a essentially demoing these these buildings because that doesn't make any sense for from for us from a sustainability standpoint is is it are you are you uncomfortable with giving us uh two years from Co because that would allow us to move people in shift people out finish those other projects and then we would be we would be done then we could remove it after that two years uh from that two-year Point um well what concerns me Mr degia is that the these there was an 18month time frame put on these in 2016 I mean that's what it's the precedent uh that concerns me that that they are they are have are no longer temporary and you know and so I don't want to um well I that's I wasn't around to do it so all I know is that it's there and I'm just looking at like from today what are our choices we know we need some swing space we're going to have to end up demoing it um and then you know I'm not sure what we'll do if we'll we'll have to come in for another application like you like you're saying or come in for just create a site plan for it I mean that it is that like such a heavy lift uh that that you would demo it rather than present a site plan that just that allows for storm water management and the like I mean what am I missing and Justin are we sure there was no storm water management done at that time I I mean I wasn't involved um and my engineer I don't think was either um I don't yeah I defer to Mr Weissman on that but I I really doubt there would be if we were only expecting this to be up for 18 months and gone you know it's modular it's made to to be picked up and moved yeah my recollection going through the file was that there was no storm water management uh installed as part of it Mr Cohen yeah I I just wanted to kind of cut through the confusion and suggest that I think what we're really talking about here is asking the Institute to do a site plan we're not asking you to take the buildings down because it's clear you have a need for them nobody thinks that's a good idea to you know take them down and then put something back up or whatever um so that's I I just want to be clear I think that's really the ask is that a site plan be done to allow these to remain that it's just okay uh repairing a uh something that wasn't handled properly uh when it was done originally and and trying to make sure that it is and and by the way Chris I mean not to um I mean the university put up a temporary structure as a dining hall that I remember hearing a year or so ago in connection with one of their one of their projects that's going on right now so it's uh you know we're requiring other applicants to do a site plan for temporary structure that's going to last a certain amount of time to make sure that the impacts are taken into consideration and and I think that's what we're asking for here David let me just pin down the timing do they have to get the site plan before the TCO or do they have to apply for it before the TCO and I guess that's what Justin would right what Justin was saying was that they have to do it before their permanent Co correct but all the only reason that that matters Jerry is if they're going to take down the temporary structures that difference between a temporary Co or permanent CEO if they're going to take down the structures staff was saying they're willing to work with them to help them get the occupants of these temporary structures into the new building um before this condition would um take effect but if they're going to keep keep the temporary structures which I think makes sense for them and it makes sense for us yes because they were gonna use other right projects exactly so the timing doesn't matter all that much I mean my hope would be that the Institute would start working on that site plan soon you know before before they're ready for a CO on this on this Library expansion okay but that would be the drop that would be the drop dead is that it would have to be and we're talk we're talking about a minor site plan correct the difference is that a major requires a traffic study and stuff like that but yeah I don't want to speak for staff um well I mean ultimately it's up to the board to decide that um you know it's I guess the condition would say site plan approval and I mean the board later uh through the site plan committee so I would just say site plan approval and I would imagine it would be minor but uh it's not for me to decide okay so if the trailers I'm sorry I'm I'm a little dense about this if they're going to keep the trailers have to get site plan approval and would that be before the permanency they have to submit a site plan I don't think they have to get well I'm sorry Justin why don't you yeah I would say they have to get approval uh or take them down yeah before before a permanent CE for this line but not before but not before a TCO a temporary Co exactly okay okay and I mean ultimately how I imagine it might play out if the Institute does decide to come in for a site plan is they would come in and they would say we are going to use them while you know future Project X is you know under construction for a year and a half two years whatever it might be uh five years uh you know and then the board would consider that at that time I will just again comment it's more likely to be deemed a minor site plan if there's temp if they're temporary structures and there's a time frame on it and I don't think the intention here is to be onerous you know it's it's just to straighten this 2016 approval out yeah I I I'm glad you said that I agree I I hope this doesn't feel like gotcha but it it is important to address it um other uh other comments before Jerry maybe goes through um conditions um Madam chair I just wanted to ask about the the bike report that we talked about earlier so my understanding of that conversation uh was the 12 spaces would still be required at the library and the applicant would have to do an annual report um with those uh as David so eloquently described it earlier um but what I was unsure of is are we talking an annual report in perpetuity as the ordinance says or are we talking an annual report until that compliance is gained I did not think we were talking about an annual yeah I don't think that was in David's um I thought we were talking sorry I'm sorry David go ahead it was because it's in the ordinance we're we're we're trying but but my point was that it could be something that would be very very simple for from year to year for for The Institute because they don't change you know their population doesn't change from year to year so certainly it would be annual you know uh explaining progress on the transition to compliant bike RS and then after that it could be as simple as uh no change from last year or still in compliance you know so it would as you said originally locate the racks identify those that don't meet the code uh propose or demonstrate how those would be upgraded to meet code and add the the 12 required to meet the 150 campus wide uh bike parking requirement re M number right but there may also be some other new locations required because as they transition to compliant racks the ones that are there currently you know we have that discussion you have a little 4 foot rack that has 12 slots in it yeah it's not a 12 it's not 12 parking spaces right so once they're changing to a different kind of rack they may not be able to fit them all in the current locations so other locations as well right you would said how compliance would be done I think that pretty much Co covers that yeah yeah um Miss Wilson Anderson Claudia just a a very simple clarification on compliance uh does it make sense to have a time frame so that this won't go on in perpetuity in terms of reaching compliance and what I'm talking about for compliance is basically compliant bike racks that over some period of time uh five years um they will all be compliant I personally think it's a very good point and if and at one point we talked about this as a condition on the variance that they were seeking with respect to the bike racks and if we do that I think we have some flexibility and to have them go on and do it year after year although I know what the ordinance says but now we're talking about a condition with respect to a Varian and they really not saying anything except no change it doesn't seem to me to make a couple other sense but the problem with that Jerry is we're gonna have future projects yeah and every time they have another building that they do in addition to yeah trigger another yeah but if there are future projects would they have to come back to the planning board and we'd have to review the not if they not if they're not adding to their as population but this is a this is a different way of complying with our ordinance so are you saying that it would not require a variance because they would comply in a different correct manner correct yeah correct so the variance goes away we're not because they're looking at it from a campus-wide perspective rather than the individual building perspective and by the way I don't know that every bike rack on Princeton's campus is compliant either you know they and I don't think we have a time frame for them to upgrade their bike racks to be compliant I think they they do a report they tell us where they have racks where they need racks where they but I think we do want them the applicant to upgrade their B cracks to be comp we do absolutely and so if uh they are not in compliance where does that leave us if we if there's no time frame as indicated exactly exactly I mean I I I don't know how staff handles this with respect to the university which I think is the only other institution that's chosen to use that approach um so I don't I I don't know how to answer the question I'm I'm by the way I'm not arguing against having a time frame and certainly if the institutes amenable to having the time frame um I think we can agree on it as it you know in in this resolution but I don't want to impose something on the Institute that we're not imposing on the University yeah they're you know they're they're operating under this section of the code and um I I don't think it' be fair to um impose something more more stringent on The Institute than what's on the University comment on exactly what the arrangement is with the university um Mr lusco or Mr Weissman is that the agreement with regard to the University's by GRS I'm not sure off the top of my head um um though I think they you know you don't see bike racks like the ones we saw in the pictures earlier so I think the the style of rack and the you know space considerations need it and all that sort of thing um you know they they might be up to it um but I can't confirm that for sure no I was was asking what exactly the arrangement is so so it's it's it's not a personal arrang it's following the ordinance when the university it has a standard B bike rack and and I think it just updated its standard bike rack as well and over time they upgrade the facility so it's uniform throughout the campus so it looks nice um and all our most Rec all the University's most recent projects have this new you know basically new it's like a curvy design that complies with your ordinance and you'll see that in the new projects that go up you know within the next year or two and then over time you'll see other racks that may comply with your ordinance the way they are but they'll be upgraded to a standard design so it's uniform throughout campus and the you know the the institute's going to do something similar they're going to come in with um their 12 racks that are going to be brand new and then they're going to go around and um look at the areas and and come up with you know the number that they'll need to comply with the ordinance and over time those other racks will be updated um to comply and so that they have a fully compliant plan as required by your ordinance Claudia I'm thinking perhaps that instead of a a hard deadline a good faith efforts uh language so that it's in everyone's interest and we understand that you will be making progress but we don't have a way of exactly measuring it absolutely yeah and that the plan if possible um tries to anticipate a time frame for being in full compliance yeah and we're gonna be before you sooner or later something yeah right I will say I will say I would like to I would like to impose a condition when the first report will be due I think we have to David I was just gonna yes and your suggestion is David uh within a year from the date of this it just froze on my screen everybody did yeah I don't see how we can just say good faith effort in in a as a condition because I don't know how you would ever enforce something like that I mean I think you have to actually have either a number or description uh the section of the ordinance and I think Louise might be Frozen now so I don't know if we want oh there we go I back um the section of the ordinance mentions an annual report at the start of every school year uh so you know we might want to either just note to follow that section I think it's 282.30 well yeah by the certificate of occupancy what about the certificate could you say that again Justin well basically just they need to put the bike racks up uh first you know they would need to detail them in their compliance the 12 that they're saying just by the library and then by Co they would need to put them up because we right now don't know where they're going to go by the library or anything like that so so okay so this is a little bit different than what I expected I expected the um the timing to be the start of the school year immediately after the 12 spaces would be constructed so that we would have that as part of the report and the full compliance package you're actually I I didn't see it that way you're looking for let me let me tell you let me tell you what what what I have so far um okay this it's going to be Campus White approach Ro um there's going to be an annual planning and study report the first one is going to be do do the start of the 2025 school year um that would include the 12 they have to be up by the co for the building and the report has to also show how compliance will be done explaining the progress on the bike R racks and do we want a a date of final compliance a full compliance I'm sorry Dustin I know you're looking at the ordinance is there anything like that uh no I I mean the uh ordinance really says the number that's needed the number being provid it and a mitigation plan to address the shortfall so again that brings us back to do the old racks count uh you know so I think that's where Jerry's saying kind of compliance with the those requirements you know could be required because of the variance um you know and then we're back to where we were talking about the good faith effort essentially so I you know if they followed uh that 282.30 to a t uh it would not require the upgrading of those racks unless you specifically made that a condition at which point you know I suppose you would be free as far as the uh applicant agrees to put in that the racks need to be upgraded and by when a good faith effort within five years so you're both doing the good faith effort and also giving a time frame we can update the racks for a five period I guess you know I think it's just going to happen naturally over time but yeah five years seems reasonable okay Dan Weisman uh if I may it it the I think the mitigation plan should identify the required uh updating of the racks um because there are bicycle spaces it doesn't mean that they're compliant bicycle spaces with the Princeton ordinance and therefore compliant as to what the study would require um so but I think what the requirement is is that it's point4 spaces per uh student faculty member um and and those are compliant bar parking spaces it's not non-compliant parking spaces so even though there may be 150 spaces maybe only 20 of those currently are compliant so it's really only 20 spaces are provided that are complying with the ordinance and then the mitigation plan that is required per the ordinance uh would have to identify how the balance are are meeting it um so I think the ordinance does cover it um but having that detailed in the condition would be great okay thank you for that so I hope we're finished with the bike discussion but I have to say that even though it's been a really long discussion at least it's been about bikes and not cars which is something okay um other conditions you want me to walk walk the board through them yes please okay we had all those in the engineering report that Dan went over I don't think we need to go through those again nope okay um the four EV spaces are be to be relocated by the Ada spaces yes that was shown in their plan right yeah no it's testified to had in the old location right yeah well oh sorry jar I let you go on okay say the same thing well I was I was going to go on to the next Point well I from what I heard it was actually one of them is going to become the Ada space and then three more will be just south of that okay yes and then there has to be markings prohibiting parking um by the depress curb is that in then in Justin yes I think that was a comment in Mr anoc CK's report but yes okay it's corre and then with respect to the couple of things with respect to Landscaping there should be a barrier for the English ivy native plants should be planted um instead in the areas native ground cover native yep and grasses and perennials in um some of what some of those um squares that were labeled as lawn yeah okay okay just give me a second please mhm okay native grasses and perennials in all of the squares uh there were three identified on the plan that I think were Dan do you want to speak to this that's it was three they they offered to do some type of native ground cover or something in the three squares uh and the the upper portion of the plaza y and then some add some native ground cover perennials on the west side of the building near the Holly planting that's going in hold on Dan what's that native plantings native ground cover perennials in place of some lawn on the west side of the building okay and the barrier in the alternate ft with the English iy yeah right yeah English iy to be removed as part of this project oh is it gonna okay oh we weren't asking to remove all of yeah seconds yep the English Ivy ivy that we're removing as part of this project will be replaced with something else right should this I mean there should be a revised landscape plan and um who should that be subject to the approval of would it be the landscape committee would it be you Dan would it be um the arborist I think there are enough changes that it should come to the L landscape subcommittee yeah okay I think I I think we also wanted to see locations of the uh trees that have already been planted or will be planted uh around elsewhere around the campus right there some 22 that's on the plan they submitted yes oh that was yeah I think that's the um the sycamores and and some yeah okay I think that's it yes um thank you Jerry uh with the conditions just uh enumerated um is there a motion on this application and that one and the one variance we're still going to Grant the variance correct no the variance is not required uh if they comply with the ordinance as a right campus guide yep yep okay sorry so this uh um a motion on this preliminary and final major site plan with no variance required and with the condition but with the conditions that uh erase the variance or extinguish the variance right yeah is there a motion um moved by Mr Cohen is there a second who would like to Second oh I'll second thank you Mr McGowen um Carrie uh can you give us a roll call vote Please Mr bodimer yes Miss cazi yes Mr Owen yes Mr mwan yes Miss Nuka yes Miss Pearl mutter yes Mr Taylor yes Miss Wilson Anderson yes Mrs Wilson yes motion carried thank you very much thank you very much um thank you all friends from The Institute for advanced study um you have a beautiful campus and this is a cool project and we appreciate your uh being here for several hours tonight well and um thank all of you for your time we appreciate all of you we know that you've been very busy this year and this was a special meeting added for us so much appreciated thank you very much well the good news for board members is we do not have a meeting next week thank you but we do have meetings the week after that and the week after that so um uh Mr Cohen I move that we turn for being no further business second I'll second uh all in favor please say I I I thanks everybody very much have a wonderful weekend and we'll see you in two weeks if not before good night good night night good night