okay good good evening um I'm gonna have to turn to read the open statement here excuse me this is a regular meeting of the Princeton Zoning Board of adjustment being held electronically via zoom on April 24th 2024 at 7:30 p.m. pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the time and place of this meeting has been given by prominently posting this Sunshine notice of the Princeton Zing Board of AD adjustment such notice has been placed on the official bulletin board at the municipal complex and by transmitting a copy of this notice to the Princeton packet town topics the times Trentonian and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton on April 19th 2024 and has been posted to the municipal website www Princeton nj.gov meetings pursuant to the extension of this ongoing state of emergency by executive order 292 in accordance with the emergency remote public meetings protocol for local public bodies to conduct a public meeting without physical attendance by members of the public notice that during this extension of the state of emergency all regular and special meetings of the Princeton Zoning Board of adjustment will be held electronically via Zoom was transmitted to the Princeton packet town topics the times and was filed with the clerk of Princeton on the 24th day of April 2020 such notices have been placed on the official bulletin board at the municipal complex and on the Princeton website and ought to be maintained throughout the year and by transmitting a copy of same to the Princeton packet town topics the times Trentonian Comcast media and by filing a copy thereof with the clerk of Princeton notices have been placed on all window doors of the municipal complex Claudia can you please call a rooll Miss Chen yes here miss goulson here Mr David here Mr Floyd here Mrs dver here Mr tenal Mr Stein here Miss Donna chairman Cohen here thank you welcome okay let's begin we have two resolutions this evening the first is 105 lyen Lane uh block 31.040102 [Music] um board members just one comment paragraph 10 of the resolution this is uh the neighbors testimony there are two words that were uh should have been included in there it is the second to the last sentence and I'll just read part of it it says Mr perone alternatively asked the applicant be required to install a fence along the entire length of the common property along along the driveway to protect protect his property and I think what should have been in there was protect his property from damage and then and from drivers entering onto his property because I took another look at my notes and I think that that he did Express concern about damage as well okay so noted board members comments resolution I to approve that thank you we have a second I'll second it thank you Claudia can you please call the rooll who moved that I'm sorry moved by Jim davage seconded by Eve right what okay Mr davage yes Mr Floy yes chairman Cohen yes thank you okay our second resolution is 660 pretty Brook Road Block 4901 lot two in the R one-t zone once again the resolutions in your packets comments questions or motions please so moved thank you second sure okay thank you Gloria Mr davit yes Mr Floy um he opposed vot oh I'm sorry that's good Mrs Shriver yes chairman Cohen yes thank you okay we have three applications this evening the first is 403 Mount Lucas road block 4301 lot n in the r2t zone uh Karen are the notices in order um yes that you'll recall this application the board took jurisdiction previously we're on 403 Mount Lucas correct yes yeah so the board took jurisdiction at the last meeting it got carried so yes everything is in order good um I had move uh the applicant over and he disappear okay yeah I did see him I don't where I don't know where he went Derek could you summarize your memo for our benefit and that of the audience yes sir and uh Derek I'll swear you and I don't Elizabeth are are you uh are you online now all right I'll just swear you in right now Derek you swear from your testimony this evening will be truthful I do thank you thank you um sorry Karen I I am out that's okay I'll swear in as soon as we get to your memo thank you yep um thank you chairman um the applicants cha houie Jen Jenny Lou and Eugene Pierre D are the owners of 403 Mount Lucas they are seeking a C2 variance to permit additions to a single family dwelling in exception to the required height to setback ratio in the required garage setback from the nearest portion of the facade the applicant is proposing to construct a second Flor addition in exception to the uh required um height to setback ratio IO and they're also uh looking for relief from the garage setback the properties located in the r2t zone um the subject Lots non complying with regard to the required 65,0 430 Foot lot area requirement the existing is 47,4 square feet the existing single family house complies with the applicable bulk requirements um the proposed second floor uh will contain a uh ma master bedroom a guest room and a full bath the first floor will be renovated and contain a kitchen living room dining room two bedrooms full bath and a pwder room um they're proposing a two-car garage attached and will provide a storage area mudroom and an additional front entry the required side uh entry garage setback is 8 feet while the garage does step back 8 feet from the main house the uh part of the addition which includes the new foyer is considered the nearest facade and requires a variance um they have requested a variance from the 1 to 1.5 height to setback uh proposes 1 to 1.26 and they are requesting a side entry garage variance from the required 8 feet to a z foot setback and they've cons requested consideration under the C2 criteria if you have any questions um I'd be glad they try to address it board members any questions of Mr Bridger Derek I just have a housekeeping question is the required setback 8 feet or 12 because earlier in your memo it says 12 uh I believe it's eight let me double check but okay thank you my understanding is it's eight y okay um well you want to check that and then we'll call on Elizabeth for a summary if I'm Elizabeth's not a this isn't she doesn't have this is okay not this one okay then be right back go ahead I'll I'll jump in after okay um I guess we're ready for the applicant who's who's representing this case I am Eugene De I'm the property owner B can you swear him in please I I'll I'll swear them in sorry that's okay Mr D do you swear or affirm your testimony this evening will'll be truthful yes I do thank you okay all right thank you thank you for your time I appreciate the uh appreciate the effort and the uh tremendous contributions that all of you make in this uh this committee so what we're doing should I be uh sharing my screen or yeah if you have an exhibit that you would like the board to consider then yes please share your screen so I can share screen here all right so all right so this is a one-story single family home of about uh 1,382 Square ft so that is very small um the existing home does not have a garage it's a small space it doesn't have a dining room the living room and the dining room are combined uh two of the bedrooms are um around 10 by 11 or so and the master bedroom is is okay but it's a very small space um it's diff difficult to live and it has low ceilings um the bedrooms are small and we share a single bathroom so there's only one bath in this home um my wife and I both work from home on a regular basis we have two children and they're serious musicians and it's kind of hard to make it in a in a home of that size so in order to accommodate the needs of our family we're we plan to add um 2,197 square feet of space to the house this includes the two-car garage so we're trying to maintain the cottage character of the home as you can see it it looks small from the road and it is small um so um we don't want to make it a mcmansion the living space will not be uh anywhere close to mcmansion size we don't have a big budget um and we believe that our proposal is within the spirit of the zoning zoning ordinances and we think that our proposal is in fact better for the neighborhood hood and for our neighbors than the project we would be required to do if don't receive the variance so um I can yeah so here is it's we are in zoning r2t and that's the red square that you see there um our plan is to add a second floor on top of the main volume of the house and to add a garage to the north of the house so that's basically it we're just want to um minimize the impact on the site so here you can see the site we want to minimize the impact we want to keep as much open space as possible we have some beautiful mature trees some beautiful Oaks are on the site and if we tried to we had one plan that expanded into the back and that would have taken out um two two stands of oak trees and I really we really didn't want to do that so I love the trees and it seems more parsimonious and certainly better with better for the uh for the site if we just build up one floor um so go here so we wanted to add as little as possible to grade and to use the roof of the new garage as a green roof and that was actually why we started this plan to begin with I've always wanted a green roof I love a green roof and as you can see here it's a nice place to sit and um we want to minimize the environmental impact of the of the project on the site and um now we know that we have to do it to comply with the water management regulations but we had that in our plan to begin with before we even know it was required um so this um this pH is from We Bought the property the roof now needs changing it's not in good shape and we think that the most economical way to do this is to add a second floor over the existing volume as an attic so um in this slide you can see the low volume that contains the kitchen um I guess maybe that was better than the other one we'd like you to maintain we'd like to maintain the modest character of the building and keep the front facade at the height it is today and only increase the height of the roof itself so the facade doesn't actually increase with this design um again here you can see the volume of the kitchen we're proposing to add over the existing volume of the house not over the kitchen and that's important so the kitchen remains at the current height which is about 10t and the entire um change to the existing structure is the raising of the roof except over the kitchen then here you can see to achieve the second level in an economical way we're not adding a second floor in a conventional way instead we're proposing to replace the existing roof with a steeper angled roof in order order to provide the appropriate Headroom for the new master suite and guest room and introduce Dormers for light and Views so as you can see the facade doesn't change all we're doing is making the roof steeper and somewhat higher and that's why the uh issue we'll get to with the uh what is that called the height to side of yard is actually important because that's what makes that little space there is what makes the uh the design of the master bedroom feasible um it by having that steeper roof we have enough head room for the new master suite and guest room and um we're introducing Dormers as you can see for light and views we keep the front facade at the height it is today and only incre increase the height of the roof itself um so as I said the roof has has uh has to be replaced anyway so this is it's important that the strategy allows us to maintain the low profile of the building by not extending vertic um the plane of the front elevation if we were to do what is allowed by zoning we would end up extending the face of the building vertically and it would be more visually massive than the tip of the roof that is currently encroaching on the side yard and in and ultimately what we want to do is less than what our neighbor did so if you look at the house on the right um the property line is just to the left just to the left of the row of bushes that you see there you see that the row of bushes is the I think they're I think they're um lilacs I think but there's a row of bushes right there it's just to the left of that so um the garage is less than 3 feet from the boundary on that side and the height of the roof is um about 25 ft and it's only 12T from the property line so we're just doing what our neighbor did um again you can see the height of that house and in a sense we are not doing anything significantly different than the neighbors's house um and theirs is much closer to the property line the ordinance also calls for the garage to step back 8 ft from the closest elevation this would add an ex an additional step back and encroach in the yard further as uh as well as cause additional construction expenses we're seeking a VAR of the requirement to step back the garage 8T from the nearest elevation point to the garage so the garage is set back 8T and the only other piece and maybe I can draw it this this is the entrance way so in a sense the entrance way is set back 8 feet it's part of the garage it's just the connection between the garage and the main house so the green roof area is the garage this is an entrance way and this is the raised roof if you can see where my cursor is moving around there so we've set back the entrance way and the garage um 8 ft as per the requirement and in a sense it isn't more than the garage it's just the entrance way so I think that we're within the spirit of the ordinance because although it is not strictly speaking the garage it's the entrance way to the garage and to the house and the connection between the garage and the house so we are trying to make maintain the modest character of the existing um building minimize the impact on the site and keep things simple um the front facade at the height uh the front facade will be at the height it is today and the only increas is in the height of the roof itself the setback as you can see here is at 8 ft and it is the garage and an entrance way and that's it sorry and the stairway so the stairway goes in here up to this house if we put the stairway in the house wouldn't be worth raising the roof because the house is so small so I'm open for any questions and um interested in hearing what you have to say board members any questions of the applicant is there a um are there architectural plannings of this see the the plan view do you have you have uh section elevations um I I think those have all been submitted so you have those packet had a full set of drawings in it gy okay there well that's okay as you can see the the elevation there is it's only a little corner that's the only problem with that line significantly less than than the property adjacent to us and dere quick question are chimneys exempt from all this from Heights uh yes thank you that that was an existing chimney and I will uh just circle back the the side garage setback is 8 foot not 12 I believe if Jim are you done can I comment yeah I'm sorry done yes um was that is that chimney existing now at that height yes sir okay I didn't think it was that tall all right that's fine sorry I'm sorry it may have to be raised I think I think the chimney will have to be raised slightly in order to meet fire code yes well it has to be up above the roof I have I have a a question and a comment my question is if the roof that roof over the um over the main house and I understand your concern about raising the uh raising the front facade but it if that roof were to drop down to the line of the height to setback ratio it looks like it would come down what two feet or something and you'd be basically hitting your head I think when you got bed in the morning you and if you stood on the bed you'd hit your head so how much how much space would that could you still have a functioning master bedroom in that space functioning yes yes um yes it would functioning would it be odd yes well I mean what would be is there enough space within the area of the slope portion of the roof to create I'm just trying to understand I mean personally I think the roof the roof is very high um the amount of extra space is minimal I understand that but I'm just wondering if it can be workable bringing it down a little bit well we've spoken with the architect and um the that would make the uh the roof in place is only about six feet high so it's not that it's not really it's not really um an ideal looking room then if you meet that I have to look at the I have to look at the drawing so that was the one comment the one question and my comment would be in relation to the variance for the setback of the the garage from the principal facade um just a comment that I think I think obviously I think Derek you were correct in in calling this out um but I think in this case the intent is met but not the letter of the ordinance I mean the the garage is the principal portion of this of the necessity for the addition and it is set back 8 feet it happens to have a new doorway into it that leads into the a secondary entrance although they are eliminating the main entry but so I mean I'm I'm comfortable with the setback from the principal facade even though it's in deference to what the ordinance is so those are my my question and my comment and that's it are there any other questions from the board uh yeah I I do hit one go ahead if in effect just imagine you had a huge knife and you just chopped off this the corner that is in violation of the height to uh side yard setback then the the huge area of attic bedroom space would would essentially be in compliance is that that's what I was that's what I was asking it's exactly what the same question and you're right well but I'm saying just take off that corner don't have to to lower the whole roof well that's true you could do that you could just lob off that last I don't know five feet something like that it's it's structurally a little problematic to build that that um what you call it it would almost be a I don't know what you call it but if you had the SL roof sloping down right there it would be an an odd Roofing feature and the adjacent home isn't anywhere close to that with the adjacent home although that was done that's a totally separate situation it doesn't in my opinion set a precedence for for uh the basis of the approval here it is an existing fact on the ground but so sorry okay I I have a question Steve actually Steve it's a question for you so I understand you you said the roof seems a bit a bit High relative relative to what I'm trying to understand your per well I think relative to the to the front facade of the existing house it just seems to be a very high roof I mean not not by okay yeah because now I understand what you meant because the height of the roof as as you know is well below well below the zoning yes yes and um yeah okay now I understand what you mean no but yeah thank you Vis visually in proportion visually that's all okay High slope I was playing architect I'm sorry yeah the pitch is Extreme yeah the the reason that the roof goes up there is because of the in order to the square footage in the bedrooms the roof has to be higher and steeper and that's why at the um at the highest point it um it's very narrow yeah I'm just trying I'm trying to find the drawings uh I'm just looking for the drawings right now but let's let's move on hold it up are there any other questions of the applicant okay so at this point um what we'll do is um you'll have the the uh abil we're going to go into to the we're going to open it to the public for comment but before we do is there anything you want to say in summary before I open the comments up to the public no I I thank you for your time and I hope you'll consider this application we've put a lot of time and thought into it and um yeah my really hope that you're able to see these variances as um as consistent with the spirit of the Neighborhood Mr de I have two two uh items one that's all right with you well collectively call the slides you showed today your exhibit A1 okay and the other thing is you may have seen in Mr Bridget's memo uh he was sort of laying out the criteria with respect to the purposes of zoning and that is applicable to your project because you're looking for what's called a C2 variants so I don't know if you'd like to speak to any of that or just explain why you believe it does meet the the criteria I I don't know why it meets the criteria criteria for C2 so I'm sorry I I can't I can't help you with that uh perhaps brought an architect or an attorney here I I don't know why it meets the criteria for C2 I I take that is on faith I do have a question is it a is it a two-car garage yes what's being added is a two-car garage with a lot of storage with some storage space yes because there's no attic right the way this design works you have effectively then no Attic So the two-car garage does include some storage space okay all right would you like to comment before we open it up to the public you don't have to you don't have to I've spoken to my most of my neighbors about this and um I would be surprised if anybody came here one person was going to speak speak in support but he wasn't really he was available last week but not this week this month so um I don't imagine there's anybody here to comment we'll find out okay um Gloria we're going to open the meeting up to the public is there anybody who's indicated they'd like to speak on this application there are no hands well there you go you were right okay so we'll give it a second here or two um and then we'll close the public portion of the hearing okay nobody's raised their hands so we'll close the public portion of the hearing once again before we go into executive session you can summarize or make any additional comments you'd like the board to here before we discuss it amongst ourselves and vote I have no comments I thank you for your time I appreciate it and um yeah I look forward to seeing what you say okay very good all right board members we're in executive session we want to discuss this I I think it's it's sort of bizarre looking but I think it there's plenty of room on that property to handle it and um you know I don't see anything wrong with it I I I don't see any reason George why you'd want to cut that corner off just to meet the requirement so you know it's okay with me board members any other questions or comments yeah I agree it's it's a modest house and uh the the reason why I guess the roof looks out of proportion is because it's so modest to begin with and I think um you could monkey with the roof line to make it fit uh it might look even more odd um and I don't see a big detriment to having that little corner there okay any other comments I um I do Steve yes please yeah um I do support it I it's a it is a somewhat undersized lot but he's it's still providing more than required setbacks less than permitted you know um f uh impervious coverage um that corner of the roof is he would yeah that part's new construction but it's extending up from existing um so I I just think he he's tried to not build the M Mac mansion and um there's so many uh pluses um that I I can support the two variances okay thank you other comments all right I'd like to make um just say a couple of things I uh I did comment on the on the height of the roof but as uh as Bernice and Stephen eluded I mean you know it's it's uh it's a little different um I would I personally would do it a little differently but this is up to the applicant I think the I think the height to setback ratio variances in this particular Cas is di Minimus um and I look at a section through the to the uh through the bedroom and dropping it down would create a little bit it would just create a little bit of an issue with the uh with the bedroom area so I'm okay with it I do have a question though are you eliminating the front door or you leaving it in no the existing front door is being removed it's always been a useless door neither the previous owners nor we have ever really been able to make use of it so okay equidistant from both sides of both driveways all right well no I and the and the other my other comment is just the issue with the garage as I said before I I understand why you did it and and I'm comfortable with it so in my opinion I would support the the application of the variances so that being said if someone would like to come forward and make a motion yeah I'll move approval of this Michael Floyd second of the C to okay I'll second that Stephen triber good thank you Claudia can you call a rooll Miss Chen yes Miss Coulson yes Mr davich yes Mr Floy yes Mrs Shriver yes Mr SE yes chairman Cohen yes thank you good luck with it and I think it'll be an asset to the community thank you very much I appreciate your work you're doing great things for the for the community thank you you're welcome okay moving right along our next application is uh nine McLean Street block 15.01 Lot 88 in the R4 DV Zone it's the withers spron Jackson historic district Karen are the uh no the noticing is in order the board has jurisdiction tonight okay um Derek could you summarize your memo for us can can we close can we Mr de can you close your I'm trying I'm trying to close it I'm having difficult for some reason I'm having difficulty today leaving the meeting thank you too much fun okay okay okay um Andrew Magano and Christine Kristen schroer are the uh owners in N mlan Street they're the applicants they're seeking a C1 variance toit construction of a rear twostory addition uh basement window and a patio and exception to the required smaller and combined sidey yard setbacks and height to setback ratio properties located in the R4 Zone uh in the former burrow um the subject lot is non-compliant with the required 60ft lot width it's 30.5 fet in width uh it's also non-compliant regarding the 6,000 foot lot area requirement the existing lot are is 3,671 square ft and the existing house itself is non-compliant regarding the required 8ot setback um it's 2.9 ft uh doesn't comply with the required 20 foot combined sidey yard setback it's 10.8 ft and it doesn't comply with the height to setback ratio which is 4.5 to1 it's 8.1 on the west elevation um the subject property is located in the Witherspoon Jackson historic district and uh the HBC did review it and Elizabeth we uh comment on that after I finish this um my memo applicant is proposing a rear two-story Edition the first floor will be comprised of a new kitchen a full bath and a one-story um B by 12 addition off the rear elevation the second floor consists of a master bath a full bath and and a full bath and there are additional interior improvements that are permitted as of right the uh following variances are required smaller sidey yard setback requirement is eight the proposed is 2.3 feet and that's to the roof edge of the addition the combined side yard setback requirement is 20 the proposed is 6.96 feet and again to the roof Edge uh the smaller sidey yard setback um is 8 ft for the uh the patio and the existing is 4.5 and the combined side yard setback uh requirements 20 existing is 13.4 for the patio and there's a basement Ingress window excuse me egress window um the setback requirement for the smaller side yard is 8 feet and the proposed is 1.4 feet and the combined side yard setback um is 20 feet and the again to the ESS window is 6.2 feet the height to setback ratio the requirements 4.5 to1 the proposed is 9.1 on the west side and 4.9 to one on east side and the applicant is cons uh requesting consideration under the C1 criteria if you have any questions I'd be glad to try to address it okay thank you board members any questions okay um Elizabeth um can you summarize your M for us I believe you have to be sworn in yes Elizabeth do you swear affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I do thank you um as Mr Bridger stated this property is located within the withers Jackson histor District the applicant came before HPC in October I'm sorry December 18 2023 for a concept review at which time they received comments and suggestions from the commission uh HBC was happy when they returned with their formal application um on December 18 2023 I'm sorry um on March 18 2024 that they Incorporated those suggestions into their final design on the building addition to the rear of the existing house is done in a fashion that retains and respects the original streetscape and the historic house um they felt that the uh the rear addition to the existing house and new two story Edition uh roof line seamlessly worked with the existing roof itself the height of the addition was no higher than the existing height of the roof that way it did not impact the street scate um the rear portion of the house is proposed to be demolished to be able to accommodate the um the new twostory edition and the one story Edition HPC voted unanimously to support this application and they supported the partial demolition required to be able to make these improvements and um if there's any questions for me I'm happy to answer them thank you okay thank you board members any questions of Miss Kim okay all right who will be presenting this application ah Mr kenned um okay um members of the board um Ryan Kennedy from Stevens and Lee for the homeowners here this evening we got two witnesses our our uh first the homeowner and our architect Ron Berlin but just to quickly summarize of What U Miss Kim and Mr Bridger just indicated um one very much appreciated of the the process here um our architect and and the homeowners met with HPC uh Twice first as a concept and then again formally um great process with a lot of excellent feedback that resulted in the project that you're looking at tonight um this is your classic C1 hardship this is a severely undersized lot and not just undersized in withth and area um but actually slanted for some reason as well so that as you reach head to the back of the lot staying parallel to the house next door actually results in um a slightly more severe sidey setback situation um we feel that the the modest renovation that was done respects the neighborhood respects the existing home and respects the neighbors as well by stepping itself back that there's a list of variances but these are all essentially different ways of measuring existing conditions and while we do step back further into the lot we also step back away um from the the side Lot line uh at each step including reconfiguring some of the existing home to be a little bit further um than than it was in the before condition there's no particular magic to 3T but our will talk about why we stayed um we we actually kind of angled the home a little bit to um to respect that three feet um and and make sure that that buffer was there um again two witnesses here this evening um uh first and maybe we'll have them both sworn in at once if that's right um Miss Casey um that's Mr Megan out and Mr Berlin do you both swear or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I do I do as well thank you so um Andrew if you want to just briefly introduce yourself uh I know uh the the boards heard the the sagas of growing families and tiny houses on Tiny Lots before um but if you just want to orient uh the board to uh your your problem here and and why you engaged Mr Berlin to help you solve it yeah sure so um I'm Andy Maga um I'm a engineering instructor at Drexel University um unfortunately my wife cannot be here with us today she had a family emergency and can't attend um but she she works for um a materials company and buys and sells um um chemicals and supplies um but we moved to Princeton New Jersey in 2016 um lovely home it's it's quite quaint and small I think we're running around 1300 square feet um two bedrooms um we've been we love the community have been very happy to be here um but uh fast forward a bit eight years to today um now we have two children um one five one almost two um so the two-bedroom situation doesn't work for four people um my wife is also um from Germany and so we have visiting family frequently when they come they come for a month or even more um so the space can get pretty tight um and we both um have jobs where on during the week there's some days at home some days in the office and having some space to to work at home um is important for us so we tried to um I guess the short story to make the story shorter we're we're hoping to make a modest addition to the property to accommodate the needs of our family um and um work needs and our visiting family as well so that's it thank you board members do you have any questions of the applicant or Mr Kennedy or anyone m Kim okay um hearing no questions um Mr Kennedy we're gonna open it up to Executive session do you if you're ready to approve it we we'll take that but I know happy to have our Architect no no I I misspoke I misspoke we're gonna open it up to public comment wait a minute what about Mr Berlin oh my gosh I didn't hear Mr Kennedy say Mr Berlin would like to speak I'm sorry I assume he does we just swore him in so all right is that correct it is we we'll we'll be brief though um reading the room but uh I don't want to minimize Mr Berlin he does a wonderful job um so Ron if you could I know you're um you've testified before this board before but uh for the record if you could briefly give the board the benefit of your credentials and confirm your license and and um introduce yourself oh that oh that yes uh my name is Ronald Berlin and I studied at Yale University in Princeton uh here got my graduate degree from Princeton and I'm registered in New Jersey Pennsylvania New York in New Hampshire uh and I have um my own practice here in Princeton since 1988 I think very nice well will You' testify before us before so we'll accept you as an expert in your field thank you thank you and if it's if it's all right um I'd like to Mark we we submitted some exhibits um we'll we'll just have one I believe it's 11 11 slides and one of them says thank you so don't think it's too long um so R how do you want to do this shall we go through the slide or shall I just intr yes so if if you want to start you just kind to introduce your your approach to the problem here and then we can start we can Orient the board to the is uh the the the clients came to me with in in some respects it's a typical program but in other respects it it it wasn't uh and that's partly due to the the um the visiting parents and other other family members from Germany to make a special accommodation for them in this project and boy I really didn't want to just extrude this farther back into their rear yard and also they really value their rear yard remember this property is getting pretty close to half the required minimum size and so uh I did what I thought was really the most natural it's be almost Beyond modest it's even could I use the word humble no I won't go that far but it's very it's a very simple and straightforward addition at the back um but I think it's going to really give them a lot of pleasure in space so um I think perhaps the there's the location in a pretty dense one of the densest neighborhoods in town and Ryan do you have the do you have the slide that shows um if we complied this is what you would see sure sure here then here just before we get there here you can see you know one house away from the more dense Witherspoon um District um maybe here's a overhead view next that shows uh it's relationship to the the neighboring properties and the properties behind it um and uh Ron I believe this uh shows the location where we're going to be doing the addition at the rear and while we are on this slide hang on for a second please um we'd be removing about the last 10 feet of this house which although it looks perfectly integrated with the rest of the house it's really different and there's probably some story of orch conversion um but its foundations are mere pure foundations and they're no good like it's this is an unsound last 10 feet of the house so that gets removed and um the new construction is partly in the zone of existing and partly it expands beyond that can you go back one slide please Ryan yeah this is an interesting slide because it shows this there's a kind of a park like you know it's like all the little pieces of everyone's backyard contribute to an open almost communal Courtyard feel about that and again here I just didn't want to impinge farther into that uh particularly since as I mentioned my clients really value the yard that they have but it's kind of an interesting scene back there okay forward please and and Ron to that end you can kind of see it here but there is a large paved area the back some kind of sports court or a basketball court that we're taking up as part of this project as well yes yeah so we we do pretty well there you go um I didn't want to build that green thing I didn't want my clients to live in that so uh so maybe just to clarify here so this the site plot plan on the left shows both the I guess the blue part is the existing home and the part that's hatched here is the part that's was approved for demolition but it's essentially going to be rebuilt in this same location and then this red outlined area is the new space that's being created as that that's it and the darker the darker part of that red outlined area is the two-story Edition and the the lighter part that little carbunkle is the one-story piece the green bar is what what would be allowed to be constructed as of right respecting very literally the required setbacks in the zone so this house as it exists was you know stuck right you know as many in this neighborhood are um with no regard to the setbacks that came much later and uh none of them have either respect them or have any ability to frankly because of the size of their right this this also the shows very clearly The Peculiar skewed parallelogram that is this property shape and one other thing to note here you know in the before condition the smaller setback was actually 2.9 feet and and with this program run you were actually able I mean it is it is a minimal but you're not just keeping it at that three feet but you're stepping back first a little bit to to keep you know to expand the 2.9 feet to three feet at these locations and then to step back even further another foot for the newish part of the Edition is that right yeah actually more more than a foot there for for that for the um one story Edition and and the the left and right to the right side of the screen that's the existing front elevation and then the new front elevation with the uh the red outlined essentially part of the addition shown behind right so how what are we looking at here this is the so here you can easily see the addition on the right is that that Gable the cross Gable and the the pitch of the roof matches that of the existing The Ridges align and you know I think the idea is that it should appear that was always almost as if it were always present and you can see on the right side um it breaks free a little bit uh and that's a an a part that's concealed from the street uh it's the one story Edition and the owners who so enjoy their backyard can actually grab their backyard from their master bedroom too by stepping out onto that balcony so that it works really well for them I think and here is the this this Gable is um very shallow like it barely steps out from the existing west facing wall on the right side um but it's I you know this is like maybe it's the obsessive architect in me but I I had to have an Audi there I couldn't have that be an any so hence um this slight step and then following the angle of the property line at three feet if you follow me maybe just to point out in passing here there's there's one window on in the center of this facade that is a would like to have but perhaps um I think as we said to HPC may not actually make it when it comes down to construction time right yeah it's it's possible that we have a a rim joist you know we'll have to examine what the existing construction is but if there's a rim joist there I don't want to interrupt the Integrity of that structure so we we'll we'll just have to see when the time comes and we can do some probing of the existing structure um and you've got the the front facades compared to what you see from the street and I I suppose that's perhaps shows that that you you can't really see much about what we're doing in the back here that's right yeah next slide we we list the variances that are needed and you know I think the important thing to show here is the that existing column uh almost almost half the size that's permitted um in the area uh just about half of the lot width as well at 30 and2 ft where 60 is required those are where the challenges of dealing with the house at this existing site are um the uh existing while there the numbers are new um and revised slightly um the story of the setbacks is both the same as the existing condition in that the house was built in this location and and hopefully we've shown that by stepping it back um and and respecting those lot lines as best we can and even more so than this home um that we're you're doing really all that one can do to to create a modest addition here um uh in a in a home with an extremely constrained lot I think this last slide tries to kind of show those pinch points so you can see where that Ron I don't if it's fair I mean I guess it is a a ridge of that U of that new feature but ultimately it is almost flush with that side so this red arrow here lined up on the on the side elevation with the site sketch kind of shows where um where that is and and remarkably it still kind of continues to step back a little bit or is angled to try to follow the lot line that is a skew um a little bit then you can see where the porch portion the one por one story Edition is step back even further than existing house ah so with with that um happy to answer any questions again we we really appreciate um your time and and HPT hpc's time you know times two in particular on this one to get us to the point where we have these plans to to show you here tonight um it's it's hard to deal with a lot of this a lot of this with and um I I think we hope you agree with HPC that that this is an approach that respects the house and the neighborhood um gives them a little bit of of more space um in the best way that you could with with a lot of this size thank you thank you Steve I have two questions please uh how many how many cars will you be able to park in your driveway two and is there room for two yes and in fact their location doesn't change because right now they don't they don't pull the innermost car all the way back there are garbage cans that are stored there and so forth so it actually it's status quo for the parking okay the second question is do you know what the ex existing square footage is and what will the new square footage of the house be I do but I'm I'm not sure I can let me see if I can get to this yeah hang on a moment please [Music] um the existing area of the house is 1 1524 square fet and proposed 1,994 square feet good thank you very much yeah you're welcome any other questions yeah I have questions thank you go please um could you put up the um um the front facade the you know the the view from the south you want the the photograph Michael or or the drawing the drawings because you have existing and um proposed yeah that's that's fine I guess you know my my concern and I I haven't heard you speak to it is on the east side of the building the new construction is actually making the side setback worse as far as you know I'm kind of okay with you going back but you're also um you know the facade of the addition is now closer to your East Side neighbor um that's that's one thing and there's not a lot of room there to start with um of course it has those evergreen bushes twostory fence now but can you speak to that have you spoken to uh the neighbor well uh the applicant um for every one of the hearings that we've done uh sent a me a note to all the the neighbors inviting them to talk with him and her uh and soliciting their comments and objections or praise and I don't think did Andy did you hear from anyone at all I haven't been contacted by anybody yeah you know okay um anyway I do believe I'm sorry go ahead I was just going to say we have spoken to a few of our neighbors and most of them have been very supportive or they all have been very supportive of of what we're doing yeah so okay well that that is my concern is yeah taking a um a a a side yard deficiency back expanding it that way is less of a concern to me than making it more impactful on the neighboring property and since part of zoning is to deal with the impact outside of the lot that's why you have lot LS um the other concern I do have you know I think this is a standard design and a lot of these narrow buildings do extend backwards um one thing that's permitted that you're doing but I worry how close people are to a second floor balcony you know if my bedroom was right next to that um you know I I hope you would think about that you know you think about the people that are outside your building that's that's those are my my two concerns um and also I I'm not really concerned with the the exit windows but I I just wanted to know how is that constructed I realized that that extends into the side yard but what does that look like uh there is there's no egress window uh in the sidey yard that's just a basement window oh okay yeah the egress window if you want to call it that I'm I just always want to be able to get people out if there's any way I can make that you know so there's a because this the land slopes somewhat from front to back I saw an opportunity uh to make an even more generous window at the very back where you could um open that casement and um easily pretty easily get out there I even considered making it a walk out basement but it it would have obtruded too too much into the um into that backyard so yeah this on the side it's just it's just a generous window basement window y okay yeah I misunderstood with Mr K no it's okay I I thought maybe it was extending further into the the side yard but you're saying it's basically flush with the facade yeah absolutely okay it's just a window well a conventional basement window well and it's probably just you know the metal corrugated metal window well of galvanized steel um I have a photo of of the backyard looking back towards the two neighbors you want to have a look at it I'd like to see that okay that may may help so may I share screen sure I guess we'll we'll we'll mark this as our second A2 okay so this is the subject property in the middle here um it would be coming forward I can't remember what that Dimension is but remember we're killing 10 feet of this depth so we're not coming out terribly much farther than this here's the neighbor to the West yes this is the neighbor to East and the new addition will somewhere around this line I'd say is where that would be coming up I think another picture that shows it is is from the front looking towards the back where you have the car in the driveway you know the the actual photograph uh hang on sec I think I've got something hold on yeah you do well I know um I know Ryan has one let's see if I yeah let's see there will be exhibit that's part of your first exhibit right no this this cropped version of this photograph is in the in in A1 but this the entirety of this is I guess probably separate so this yeah the crop the crop picture is really informative where shows it I don't know so this this is another exhibit Mr Kennedy this will be a a a33 A3 okay photo you know there but anyway that's you would be building out on that East Side for whatever length it is um and as I say then you have those your neighbor has those bushes that's like a a longstanding screening but that's my that's my concern as I say you you had a much better closeup of the driveway um but I don't know if I have yeah okay ready yeah yeah I have it in front of me so so you you'd basically be building out the addition what close to sort of where that open space is yeah yeah that's about right yeah I'd say so that's taking up a fair percentage of the sidey yard and not that bad I mean it's it's a judgment call Yeah Yeah well yeah hopefully the the foliage there will remain after you get done with the addition that's the intention well that's the plan yes it is can preserve them as well they I think the the the plants actually lie right on the property line between like where the the the roots go into the ground and the trunk I think so too I don't even yeah probably haven't been groomed more yeah I imagine we don't know who should be doing what portions um I'm just trying to find I somewhere I've got the notes that it's the distance between the two the finished distance between the two buildings will be pretty decent I think decent decent relative to what relative to existing I mean it's not hang on a second you know what it's a it's this is a a judgment call by well I'm not I'm a blavor it more than this last sentence it's not a judgment call it's a measure they're close together they're closer together yeah they're a lot closer than any of us live in um could you could you speak to it looks like um you've tried to keep the impact of of new windows down um could you go over how do you have your windows sighted relative to your neighboring properties yes hang on a sec um let's see I'm still sharing screen right so oops uh hang on I think your schematics also yeah right yeah so this is the this is the uh the where the addition extends out towards the Eastern neighbor and yes there are there are only two windows in that um in that addition yeah and and Ron from a I mean I know there's no variance for this but from a the revised section 2 or3 if I have the numbers right but the relationship of these windows uh to the neighboring properties this complies um from a oh correct yeah yeah yes okay thanks okay any other questions of the applicant the architect the owner I'll ask just one question which I pretty much know the answer to is no additional land could have been acquired to to uh minimize the impact of this it's I'm asking I'm just asking no that's I've never heard that one before but no right okay all right so if there are no other questions um M Mr Kennedy do you wantan to sure you have any other Witnesses since that is it and and and thank you all um and and thanks HPC for supporting these these modest um changes one thing I I don't know we focus too much on but remember that the lot is skewed from the front left to the back right so the the part that we were just focusing on that extends a little bit more into the larger side setback actually you know we're talking about the minimum distance on the front um because we kind of skewed things back into the right to kind of Follow that narrow path um through the site there is an additional um uh you know while it's uh in the the front part you know it's the combined sidey back is 6 point about 7 ft um as you go back there's like another foot there because the the lot skews back into to the right so while at that pinch point it's that point but by putting the the addition back in that section it does take advantage of or or follow how the lot kind of curves or or is angled back into to the right a bit um but with with that um I the the team here tried their their best to to squeeze a uh a little bit more um space into this very narrow lot in a way that um again we and HBC think respects the the neighborhood and and deals with these challenges as as almost as as as best as best we could so with I think that you know the alternative would have entailed uh a a pretty bloody-minded you know Extrusion just straight back uh and it just from a from a planning point of view but even from the kind of the Aesthetics of form it just was um unappealing there's you know there's a fair amount of program that that had to get shoehorned in here but to your point Ryan it the the neighboring house because of the skewed property line the neighboring house is actually closer here than it is farther back here that is you you get a little more relief as it were as you move further back into the property but there it is thank you okay yeah Mr Kennedy you did mention the skew lot line at the beginning so um but thank you for summarizing that once again um okay so um we'll go into the public portion of the hearing Floria has anyone indicated they'd like to speak on behalf of this application there are no hands okay I'll wait couple of seconds here and hearing no one willing wanting to speak we'll close the public portion again Mr Kennedy summarize before we go into executive session uh I I just thank you guys again I think through the lack of public comment if I were to summarize again it would be just repeating myself too too quickly in succession so again thank you all tonight uh for for your time much appreciated uh your consideration of this evening okay thank you okay board members we're going into executive session questions comments or motions anyone well I think it's a personally I think it's a Well Done addition I am a little concerned as I believe Mr Floyd is about the the right hand side towards the back um I hope the planting can be maintained although you'd have to find some pretty slim Carpenters to go in there to finish it um so um I I like it it's a tough situation I think it's a Well Done solution I agree I move we approve it we have a second I'll second okay we have a a motion and a second um any discussion of the motion before we vote who's second who's second uh Mr davage okay chaia can you call the rooll please miss Chen yes Miss Coulson yes Mr davit yes Mr Floy yes Mr Shriver yes Mr Stein yes chairman Cohen yes thank you thank you thank you thank you very much by okay all right um moving right along we are now at uh our third and last hearing 56 Cherry Hill Road Block 2201 lock 29 in the ra Zone Karen is the noticing in order it is and the board has jurisdiction tonight thank you um Mr Bridger can you summarize your memo for us please you're muted excuse me uh Lori and an Neil cummer are the owners and applicants for 516 Cherry Hill Road they are seeking a lot area variance to permit the construction of a new 5600 foot home uh the required lot area is 4 Acres the existing is 1.79 five acres and the required lot Frontage uh or excuse me lot width is 200 feet in the existing you might recall we saw this uh a similar application on this lot uh probably two years ago um the existing house has been demolished um the new home will feature a full basement kitchen living room dining room LT five bedrooms five and a half bath and a three-car attached garage subject property um has variances as I indicated earlier for the required 4 acre lot requirement existing is 1.75 95 and the required width is 200 feet as measured to the building and it's 153 feet 3 Ines they've requested consideration under the C1 criteria if you have any questions I'd be glad to address it board members any questions of Mr Bridger okay um who's going to be presenting this application um Lori Kumar and Louisa marle Clayton okay can you swear in there I will um Mrs Kamar do you swear or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful will also swear you and Miss Clayton you swear affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I do I dok you so first of all I want to thank the committee for um accepting our application um my husband and I Anil we moved here in 1986 U right out of graduate school to start our jobs we've lived in three different this would be our third house um and we've lived mostly in the Montgomery Princeton area um we enjoy the diversity of the community the walkability the hiking the bike trails um the easy access to cities as well as international travel as a lot of our family lives internationally um the diversity of the community is important to us um particularly as we age we enjoy en the cultural environment and the events that are open to the community as well as the ability to um you know volunteer um I currently work at the animal shelters at least uh four or five times a week um as we retire and I've I'm already retired um my husband is still working we want to age in place in Princeton and hence why we bought this lot we also bought the lot because it was very natural with all the Big Trees the Wetland area and the ability for us to build Gardens and natural Gardens um so that we can attract birds and bees and um butterflies and all kinds of things that are really important to this environment we also want to age in place so we want to build the house such that it's going to accommodate us as we become less mobile um we have a lot of visiting family that comes from all over um so we are building a house to enable them to come and stay long periods of time with us um as I said uh we want to stay in this area because we we fell in love with it in 1986 when we moved and so therefore uh we are submitting this application and hopefully um it will sit well with the committee Louisa thank you thanks Lori um greetings zoning board thank you for hearing us tonight and reviewing our application as Derek mentioned you saw this exact same application less than two years ago uh the previous owners had asked for the two same two variances because these two variances go along with the lot uh they don't go along with the house they don't go along with anything that they go along with the lot so this lot um can I share my screen Steve sure okay I'm just gonna do two things by the way just as an aside Lou so we do accept you as a an expert in your field thank you so much I appreciate that you're welcome um okay let me see about sharing my screen so uh okay so can you see so I'm showing you hopefully you can see the Princeton Consolidated zoning map can everybody see that yes okay so the lot here and this is all you know the P the smaller portion of it was on the drawings that you all have but I'll just show you sort of the greater um map so this can you see my cursor yes this little lot this is the lot that we're speaking about here whoops who oh gosh what did I do sorry uh I don't know what that is um okay there we go so this is the lot so as you can see it's kind of a funny neighborhood where it's quite diverse even in the zones so we are in the zone R A which kind of you know is this bright yellow right next to us is Zone RB and right across the street is R2 so R A requires four acres RB requires 1.5 acres and R2 requires um half an acre I think no wait a minute no I'm wrong I think oh no no no R A requires four RB requires two and R2 requires 1.5 so as you can see this lot is not out of scale with really the rest of the Lots around here so just generally already it kind of fits in with the neighborhood um in terms of trying to make this lot the full four acres it would be really really difficult to buy the the additional you know 2.2 Acres that we would need to make this lot of 4 acre lot and I'll just hopefully I can switch to this one can you now see this image yes yeah okay so this is the lot um you can see that the Zone boundary comes through and then actually comes across the top of this lot so the lot just adjacent to the north only a very small portion of that lot is actually in the ra zone so even if we bought this small little portion um it wouldn't make this lot four acres and this lot is already non-compliant with its Zone it's supposed to be two acres and it's 1.08 Acres so that wouldn't help and then down here this lot is in the ra Zone it's 4.2 Acres the house is here and this would not be enough um in addition to the fact that this Wetlands that I'm showing here on this lot on our lot um goes through here so it wouldn't it would be very awkward to try to buy this plus if we bought that much acreage from this lot it would become un non-compliant itself so we're sort of and then everything behind is um preserved open space so we're sort of stuck here um in terms of trying to make the lot 4 Acres um and then the lot the building width is um as you probably saw on the plans it's it's here so you see that the setback is 50 feet for both because we're on the corner and then the lot kind of jogs back so the the the distance between here and here whoops is 153 and it's supposed to be 200 so again there's really not much we could do about that um we're sort of stuck with that but you can see that this is the house that we're proposing and it's still within the realm of everything else in the neighborhood in terms of size in terms of setback so um you know although this is a large lot we are fairly pretty well constrained in terms of our building envelope where we can build build um because of the wetlands and the setbacks but we feel like this house is um you know that this lot can handle a house um of this you know of this size and and there was already a house here so this house has already been built upon and we're just going to build a new house there miss Clayton why don't we make these two slides your exhibit a one were there any other slides you wanted to share with the board no okay and Derek quick question for you this application is back then for Varian is because this house is different than what was previously approved it's a new owner it's a different house yeah they bu it's a different house okay and actually the variance expired um because they didn't they didn't act on it yeah okay great thank you okay Louisa do you want to add anything um I think if this is a sort of a typical situation in Princeton where I think it's 60% of the lots are undersized for their zone or non-compliant in their Zone and um so we're just here to ask for the variances okay all right um board members and there's no you have no other Witnesses just the owners and the architect right okay board members do you have any questions of the owners or the architect uh if not will'll allow them to summarize and then go into the public portion of the hearing okay um do either of you want to say anything before we open this up to the public no we just we are looking forward to hopefully um building this house in the Princeton community and we thank you for your time okay all right thank you um Claudia has anyone we're in the we're going into the public portion of the hearing Claudia has anybody indicated they'd like to speak on this application there are no hands okay so giving couple of seconds here we'll close the public portion of the hearing and again I ask the owner or the architect if they like to say anything before we go into executive session good any further comments okay thank you thank you all right thank you um okay we're going to go into executive session board members questions comments motions did I hear yes Stephen am I on you or not no we can I can hear you okay is this a tear down did I hear that correctly the existing has been demolished oh okay sorry the old house was demolished yeah so is the the dark shape there is what what is proposed or that's as much detail as there is about what's proposed well this isn't about the house this is about the lot right I understand that I just is the garage was well in front of the house whatever that is that was the pl the it doesn't the residential rules don't apply the neighborhood rules don't apply to ra and but there there are draws it's connected to the house so the house is designed complies with all the zoning ordinances it's just the lot is undersized and it's too narrow Derek I think you started to say that there are architectural plans though that were submitted yes yes that's what I thought yeah they're in they're in our packets well they're on the website yeah I I support it it's it's it's compliant except for uh things having to do with a lot yeah yeah I agree yeah yep I agree I would agree as well I'm Mo approval can we go back to regular screen yeah sure okay um Michael you approved um yes yes any a second a second thank you Bernice um any discussions of the motion okay Claudia can you follow the r please miss Chen yes Miss Coulson yes Mr zavit yes Mr Floy yes Mr Shriver yes Mr Stein yes chairman Cohen yes thank you you're welcome thank you very much H good luck with the house thank you so much we appreciate your time he a nice [Music] job okay um I believe that's it for the evening so if there are no other comments um or anything anybody would' like to discuss we will adjourn just one comment um you know if like me you want hard copies of the plans you can request it it makes it a lot easier I get them delivered to me no I know they're I know they're available I yeah it's easier for me to look at it on screen and print them but I understand the hard hard copies do make a difference every every so often somebody asks if there were plans yeah there are yeah they're always generally they're they're on the website um you know and uh so are they the same what we see on the screen is that the same as the paper 100 I believe they are yeah yeah yeah the the set of drawing there was a full set of drawings online on the uh on the website under this application yeah okay yeah dra but not not engineering and stuff like that you know but just the basics yeah this was just architecture yes all right thank you you're welcome see you all next good night okay night