##VIDEO ID:NBI3gEnJgI8## Zoom this is a regular meeting of the Princeton zoning Board of adjustment being held electronically via zoom on August 28th 2024 at 7:35 pm. assur to section 13 of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the time and place of this meeting has been given by prominently posting the sunshine notice of the Princeton Zoning Board of adjustment such notice has been placed on the official bulletin board of the Princeton Municipal complex and by transmitting a copy of the notice to the Princeton packet down topics the times Trenton and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton on August 23rd 2024 and has been posted to the municipal website www Princeton nj.gov meetings pursuant to the extension of the ongoing state of emergency by EX itive order number 292 in accordance with the emergency remote public meeting protocol for local public bodies to conduct a public meeting without physical attendance by members of the public notice that during this extension of state of emergency all regular and special meetings of the Princeton Zing Board of adjustment will be held electronically via Zoom as transmitted to the Princeton packet and topics and the times and was filed with the clerk of Prin on the 24th day of April 2020 such notices have been placed on the official Bon Board of the Princeton Municipal complex and on the Princeton website and are to be maintained throughout the year and by transmitting a copy of the same to the Princeton packet town topics the times bonian Comcast media and by filing a copy thereof the clerk of Princeton notices have been placed on all windowed windowed doors of the municipal complex L would you take the role Miss Chen here miss Coulson Mr Floyd here Mr Scher here Mr Tenon bomb Mr Stein here Miss Donna yes Mr Cen thank you thank you we have two resolutions to vote on tonight the first one is 58-60 Williams Street Princeton block 47.0 2 Lot 36 R4 DB Zone uh would somebody like actually we have three resolutions okay I'm sorry you're right my screen my screen didn't extend far enough but this is the first one um board members you have in front of you a memo from Derek um which attached to which is a markup uh of the resolution that was presented to you last month for your review and consideration that resolution was carried uh because the applicant had asked for an opportunity to I guess the best word would be clarify certain variances with Derek U you'll and so that for that reason we thought it would be better to let you see a marked up version um so that you could see the changes some of them are very minor uh you know Trustees of Princeton University instead of just Princeton University some formatting uh but some revisions have been made to the variances uh being granted so uh I'm going to turn it over to Derek so that he can uh explain briefly um why these revisions are appropriate and why they're consistent with uh what the board approved thank you Ken um wait I Derek let me just swear you in for the evening you swear from your testimony this evening will be truthful I do thank you um it with the uh draw ings were quite a lot of information on them in terms of like whether the setback was to the building or the gutter or the overhang so we met with the uh the University's architect and their attorney we clarified that there was an error in my uh calling out the uh smaller side yard of 4.02 feet when that was actually the larger side yard um and that was kind of a result of the University looking at one side as a as a larger side yard and me taking the opposite of opion but um that is an error it's been corrected the rest of them um are pretty straightforward if you have specific questions I'd be glad to address them some of the height to setback ratios that were eliminated were duplications um of the same uh information one was from the front view of the house and the other was from the back so we just eliminated any duplications um the impervious coverage went up slightly um as the people at the Firestone the homeowners association did ask the applicant to leave impervious coverage that had been proposed to be taken off so that's kind of an overview if you want to go in a deeper dive I'm happy to look into stuff uh but would you say there are any substantial changes no um I mean the the smaller and larger side yard setback is substantial but when you look at the site one side zero and the other side is four feet so I mean it it's what's on the plans is what was approved and and this is uh you know I guess better than before because we're actually to the gutter or to the overhang and it's clear um so all right does anybody have any questions can I hear a motion second I'm over approval second Stein Michael Floyd and George Stein thank you how do you take the role you're muted Claudia Miss Chen yes Mr Stein yes thank you did you get uh did you get Mr Floyd oh I'm sorry Mr Floyd yes okay that's that's it okay the second one is 98 aard Lane lock 702 lot 18 R1 d8 Zone has everybody read this are there any questions not can I hear a second Motion in a second I'll move to appr thank you ber out second Michael Floyd Michael Floyd thank you FL you want to take the role Miss Chen yes Mr Floyd yes Mr schriver yes Mr St Stein yes thank you thank you the third one is 300 uing Street 7303 Lot 4 R8 Zone what was that I'm sorry uh if there are any questions if not any questions can I have a motion in a second I'll move at Floyd thank you Michael I'll second thank you Miss Chen yes Mr Floy yes Mrs Sher yes Mr Stein yes thank you okay our first application of the night make sure I've got this right is 15 Stony Brook Lane block Steve excuse me um there's a couple items on the uh the agenda before that that uh need action and uh 299 Eder Stone uh is being placed on the agenda they did uh they were placed on this agenda but they never uh responded to the notice so the the time of this application uh deadlines September 13 so the board has to act on the application tonight or it will be uh approved by default uh so um Our advice is to deny the application without pre okay there there there actually is an ordinance pending uh which would allow the applicant to install the solar panels without a need for variance that ordinance is about to I think sometime in September we'll get its second reading and then go into effect so uh I don't think there's anyone here for the applicant tonight I guess we can ask is anybody here the applicant I'm looking at the ATT attendees I don't see anyone no I don't see see the applicant I don't see the homeowner okay uh so we need a motion in a second to reject without prejudice yeah without prejudice right I'll move to reject without prejudice Floyd thank you thank you Michael second I'll second thank you Donna FL you want to take the role Chen Miss yes Miss Mr Floy yes Mr Sher yes Mr Stein yes Miss Donna yes thank you thank you uh Eric is there something about 49 parue uh yes sir um the applicant um had a noticing issue and they will be Ren noticing and uh be placed on the September 25th agenda okay thank you very much so that takes us to our first actual application 15 Stony Brook Lane block 4901 Mr chairman uh I'm going to make a suggestion our last application tonight 22 parkite Drive yes ma'am there is there is a neighbor who had advised they were going to testify with re with respect to receipt of a notice they the applicant the tax assessor indicated this resident lived abroad it turns out they no longer live abroad they are back at their residence and the applicant uh asked them did they get the notice they said yes because the applicant inadvertently sent it to them at their Princeton residence not their overseas residence so in order in order not to keep this neighbor here until we get to the application I'd like to know if we can jump ahead to it simply for the purpose of letting this neighbor appear confirm they got the notice they have no objection um to uh the noticing process for them and then they can uh drop out of the meeting if they wish and then we can go back to 15 Stony Brooklyn that'll be fine do we know the neighbor's name yes we need to uh bring Yani hyeri over and then the uh neighbors are Candace McCoy and William Browder great CL you see them hello hello you're muted thank now you're okay thank you thank you yeah um we're just we're going to swear you in now uh do you swear or affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful I do all righty and we don't see yet Candace McCoy and here we are here you are all right and we will swear you in as well um do you swear or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful yes and and also William Browder William Browder my neighbor is here and I'm sorry I I just plugged in the computer and I'm having a little bit of technical problem so give me one second but William thank you want to say hi Bill yeah hello I'm here Mr Brer if you did you have any comments you wanted to make because we're not actually hearing this yet we just wanted you not to have to wait Miss McCoy until the end of the evening to confirm that you had received the notice so if Mr bradder or you want to provide testimony in the application uh we'll have to ask you to wait until we get to it but but for now uh let me just confirm with you miss um um McCoy you received the certified mailing I notifying you of the hearing correct I did all right and you all righty and previously I guess you were uh you were not living at your Princeton residence you were living elsewhere correct no there was a mistake in the address mistake in address okay but you actually did get your certified mailing so it's my understanding Ing and obviously you're aware of the hearing because you're here tonight and that you don't have any objection to the noticing process um as it applies to you for tonight's hearing would that be correct no I have noer Mr browder's wife Elizabeth also is abroad and I think there might have been problems with that well uh I I I used to have my my ma my tax mail sent to sent to Denmark and it's not my normal it's just for the letter that came in in August was okay you but you have no objection to the noticing you you've been noticed yeah no I've I've had y all right that's fine thank you thank you very much so we'll leave it to you both if you want to uh participate in the hearing later tonight of course you can but if you don't want to then we appreciate um you're coming forward to confirm that you received it and we'll get back to you Miss haeri um after we hear uh the other two applications ahead of you thank you so much for doing this thanks to everyone for help thank thank you thank you okay now back to 15 Stony Brook Karen are we in order yes the noticing is in order the board has jurisdiction tonight all right Derek do you want to present this case uh read my memo yes sir um I don't need to be sworn Karen right no you're already sworn um 15 Stony Brook Road is the subject property the owners are Edward Gonzalez and Elizabeth tro um Rob Cortina of Cedar Creek Landscapes is the applicant they're requesting a C1 variance to permit the construction of a swimming pool and related pool equipment and a um small shed within the front yard setback properties in the r1t zone in the former Princeton Township the subject lot and house comply with the applicable bulk regulations the applicants are proposing to construct a 50 by 12 foot swimming pool pool equipment and an 8x10 Cabana within the front yard setback all these items are considered accessory structures and an accordance with Section 10B 26.2 a accessory structures are not permitted within a front yard and a yard is defined as the open space area existing between a building line uh which is defined as the horizontal projection in plan of all covered or roofed areas of a structure whether permanent or temporary and the uh most near adjacent property line the proposed pool is located within the 300 foot riparian buffer zone the proposed plan utilizes a permit by rule in accordance with NJ AC 7 colum 13 of the flood Hazard area Control Act the additions to the uh pursuant to the permit by rule are outlined on page gp3 of the submitted pool grading plan the proposed development has been reviewed and approved by the municipal land use engineer project results in the removal of four trees including two dead Cedar one Dead Ash and one silver maple that's alive the removal of the trees requires a permit from the municipal arborist um and the removal of the silver map does require replacement tree um the applicant should address whether there are any other locations on the property where the pool the pool could be located without requiring a variance um the plan requires uh the following variance the front yard setback to the building line of the house is 37 F6 in and the proposed pool setback is 105 4 in um the applicant has requested consideration under the C1 criteria if you have any questions i' be glad to address them thank any questions to Derek uh who is representing the applicant you're muted right now hi this is Elizabeth Trio um I guess Elizabeth we need to be able to see you able to see I can't I know I don't know how to do that that's a problem then well I am the I'm the actual applicant I'm Rob Cedar Landscapes um okay but Mr if we can't see your client then she's not going to be able to testify so well maybe some I don't because it says start video and it has a slash through it P that Buton when I do that it says open system preferences and I when I press that I I just get a bunch of locations contacts calendar stuff that's on my computer I don't really quit and reopen I just I don't know you can also go through your iPhone oh well I can do that okay yeah sorry about this is there anything I can address as we're waiting to see how Elizabeth makes out here with her iPhone or do you guys just want to wait um Mr CA okay all right well um Mr CA we'll swear you in do you swear if confirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I do all right and what can you just tell us your relationship to Cedar Creek Landscapes I am the I'm the operations manager and production manager of Cedar Creek Landscapes okay and you're prepared to do a presentation to us absolutely I am you you want to go ahead and get started or do you want sure sure the the main thing um on this pretty clear little request for a variance in my opinion is obviously the uh the required front setback which the existing is 307 feet 6 inches and we are proposing 1054 Ines um and I believe you guys all have the engineer plan hopefully you guys could see because I would love to demonstrate to you guys the um unique topography and location of the house and the way the lot is set up and show you um that there's no place on the property that we could put a pool Beyond or any structure for that matter beyond the required setback I think we all have access to it but if you want to share your screen and share your copy of it that would be f i I have it on paper okay never mind yeah sorry does everybody do all the board members have this access to this yes yes George yes okay yes then you can assume we can see it okay great so if you can if you looking at the plan gp1 or yep gp1 is the best way you'll see on the the south side of the house you'll see the extreme grade change with a Topography of the bank of Stony Brook um dropping approximately 25 ft over 20 fet of distance run off the back of the house that also wraps around to the west side of the property and you'll see the bank the embankment and the disturbance of the bank and see the flood playe over there and then you'll see from the front corner of the house the existing setback building setback off the front property line is 307 and then you can see we plotted the pool the the proposed pool up here in the Northwestern corner of the property and then you can see from the front set from the front property line to the front corner of this new proposed building structure line which is the corner of the pool we have 105 Fe 4 in for us to get beyond the required 307 6 in there's no space on this property whether it be not not wide enough or extreme grade changes that a pool or any build could actually be installed on this property so that's why we're requesting a C1 variance and we're proposing the location that we're putting it in um because we're trying to work with the existing grades the existing runoff utilize the existing mature um trees that actually run along stonia Brook Lane and then turn and run down Province Line Road we have a tree survey that's included in this packet as well as well with our our permit from the township to remove the four trees um but there's 30 to 40 mature trees over 8 Ines in diameter up to 40 in in diameter that wrap around both sides of this proposed location so so that's one reason why we we couldn't put it beyond the front setback and that's why we proposed to put it in this to utilize old growth trees because there's nothing those trees that are existing are going to stay they're not going to be removed and they'll become part of a natural screen Mr Cortina yes do you do you want to make these collectively uh an exhibit these are uh it's a little hard to see on the screen but these are pages gp1 gp5 is the tree survey right but it's G you have on the screen now gp1 through gp5 yeah all right and they are prepared by uh PRS design that's our engineer okay Professional Engineers okay thank you so there's a good view if you if you're if we're all looking at the same screen now on gp1 there's a good view of the house towards the the back of the property which is the north arrows not on there so would be the South All the Way South you can see the the back of the structure the building and then you could see all the topographic lines each one of those lines is a foot in elevation you can see how severe it is all through there you can see the side uh property line the back property line and then the driveway property line and then if you go all the way out towards Stony Brook Lane you see that is that is the space that is available and that is well within the existing and required setback of 300 feet and 7 in but you could see there's nowhere beyond that 307 from Stony Brook Lane that any new accessory structure would really work so that's why we're requesting a variance to put in this 50 by1 12 waiting pool up in this Southwestern corner and again we we chose that location to try the the trees that are being removed there is a tree report and there is a tree survey and we do have a permit to remove these trees we picked that location because four of those trees are dead or dying one is an ash everything else around that is going to remain and we're looking at the tree survey here that kind of um borders along Province line and then shoots down Stonybrook for a natural screen of mature trees which will be which will remain so we're trying to utilize the existing mature trees and put it into an easily gradable location private location location that's easily screened and also you can see we've got a rain Garden designed for all the new impervious services that all can be handled right in that area without disturbing any other thing besides those four trees which are already dead or dying okay anything else you want to say um I think that's about it I think I think with that's if if we do get permission to put this pool in I believe that's the place and I don't believe that it's possible to do within within the conforming to over 307 feet on the um required setback right all right thank you board me just to confirm Mr CA uh Cedar Creek Landscapes then would be constructing the pool and installing the Landscaping yes yes board members questions question um yeah um I I saw the specs on the shed but I couldn't where's the location going to be is it where the existing shed is no uh no it's right next to the pool if uh if we can get gp1 back up if it's not too much trouble um that's your original survey we need to go to gp1 is it possible to get that back up yeah I'll just do it on this paper oh there it is thank you so much okay so if you looking towards the top of the page to the left of the the top of the pool you'll see a little rectangle with like a little stepping stone walkway to it if you follow that description up that says 88 by10 Cabana do you see the rain Garden oval below it yes so that's the rain Garden down on the on the lower left corner on the upper left corner is there's a rectangle and that's the Cabana right that location so is the Cabana and the shed the same thing is it called a shed on on this yeah it says then yes I apologize I'm sorry I couldn't even see that because there is an existing shed on the other side of the driveway and I apologize that is the Cabana okay it's it's called the Cabana on the drawing um but on the separate spec sheet for the shed it's called The Shed called The Shed I didn't know they were the same things okay so the spec sheet for the garden shed is really the spec sheet for the caban correct okay okay and and then um on that spec sheet how how tall is the Cabana slash think it's 11 and a half to the ridge 11 and a half feet Yes into the front yard okay um all right do you you're the landscaper so I don't know if the owner is going to get back on I'll ask you anyway sure I can get back on I'm back on if you won't see see me but you can hear me if you well we have to see you sorry Miss Gonzalez got to see you well I can't do you have a question I could just answer without you seeing me or no no no okay I will is can I answer everything sure you're in Rose you're the certainly try yeah if you have the knowledge I I I don't really know that you will the house was cited in the rear of the lot do you know if there's any specific reason other then the beauty of the back of the lot is is there some substantive reasons I am not aware of any reason why the house is actually plotted where it was built because and I I'll leave it at that and discuss it later when the board discusses the reason you have a Lar L front yard is not because of the brook it's because the house left you very little rear yard and that was somebody's purpose decision and there's a number of lots in this area that the houses are sighted the same way and any accessory structure is going to be in front of the house pretty much substan like this this so it's it's a man-made created thing it's not a top a toppo problem in my eyes what about the side with the uh elevation change um from the stream Bank obviously it's the same thing we're talking about encroaching on these sides just just curious well you're talking about the side but behind that the behind behind the front corner of the building but on the side and because that's all actual property but it does the elevation change there is is severe yes understand okay I understand that testimony um yes thank you thank you uh George you have a question yeah I do um if you were to bring the pool closer to the house how would that affect the the this front yard setback issue because it seems to me it's quite separated it would still be way within the required 307 ft we'd have to go all the way back past the front building corner of the existing house to conform to the all the way back I'm just saying it looks the distance between the pool and the house looks substantial if you were bring it closer to the house would you mitigate some of the front yard encroachment well it would definitely we'd be farther away from the street but we still would need a variance I the variance would be needed a question of you know the degree of of non-conformity with the variant the the degree would be less I think more trees may be affected if we move it down into the front yard um I think with that place was picked to picked to try to work with a lot of different things um conserving a natural screen with that and then also not removing mature trees and not affecting root systems of trees also the existing elevation of the yard managing um runoff from new impervious surfaces into a ring Garden is is it easier in that location so that's why we picked there um we're certainly open to Alternative locations but just to explain that's why we really thought about that location okay other questions uh yeah I have a question uh I did not see and maybe I missed it do you have any um detail of um the fencing the fencing is black aluminum uh pull code it's a minimum four feet we usually put 54 inches in but that is the fencing for the pool code okay the exist the fence around the property line is actually existing fence that's deer fence it's a wood post uh with wire and um is is there uh any additional Landscaping plan I I didn't see like a there is Landscaping there is a landscaping plan and it should be I can't I didn't we should have that that's designed by Dan strowman I know it was submitt do have a copy of here this would this is called all right this is by Dan strowman it's uh dated 92023 and it's a landscape architect and the plan was submitted it's called Cedar Creek Landscapes residence uh 15 stonia Brook Road Prince of New Jersey and the date 9 2023 okay but it's not in this GP series of it's not it was a separate attachment I see okay and it has all the plantings around the whole um Cabana which is which on this one's called the pool house um Stepping Stones um and all the plant material and the patio size natural natural blue stone is it possible to pull that up so the board could see it I can hold it up I have paper that won't help Claudia have that I don't have it hden that submitted to the board ah okay well Mr Cortina do you know who the Landscaping plan was submitted to since apparently it wasn't given to the board um it should have went in as far as my knowledge with all 11 copies of everything we submitted for the variance um it probably went in for the original zoning application and probably went in as a copy attached to the engineering application and I know engineering was all PDFs everything was applied online um I may have well you are welcome to sh your screen if you have it I'm going to try to see if I have that ber do you have a particular question about it um yeah I was just wondering if if any uh Landscaping uh screening is is is planned that would um you know kind of um a bit yeah conceal the you know all this all this from the the street that that was all have it here let me see that's origin survey yes I do have it all right give me sorry guys um okay I'm for I'm trying to get this up for you guys I appreciate your patience try it again got it okay oh okay yeah EXC excuse me this is Edward Gonzalez I'm sorry we cannot hear you yeah I see it open oh my goodness okay sorry everyone [Music] preferences where does it say security and privacy now I'm having a hard time just share what's on my screen oh no it's not sharing well may I maybe if you have it electronically you could uh email it and Claudia could pull it up is that easier okay here we go it's gonna work got it thank you so much for your help ah are you see we can see that okay than thank you very much Mr Mr Cortina so it's your testimony this plan was submitted to the municipal engineering department excuse me I'm gonna have to ask for an adjournment because I really need to be able to ex answer some of the questions that you that's that's fair enough Mr yeah I mean I but this is Edward Gonzalez I am frequently on Zoom calls for my work and I've never gotten a link that disengages my camera because I tried it on the devices for which I do all my work emails and your link somehow doesn't have it comes up differently in my device well why don't we do this and I'm not I'm not sure why there's technical problems at this point but uh if that's the applicant's request to carry this so that they can uh uh be seen and heard and in the interim if the applicant can make sure the landscape plan is submitted to the board secretary uh Derek if it's carried what would be the next available date September 25th okay I have a question about the landscape plan is I was planning on just letting the area go wild with just wild flowers and I'm sorry okay M Trio we can't let you testify because we can't see no no no I'm not trying to testify I'm just wondering what kind of a landscape plan should I submit if I'm not gonna have a I I think you need to speak with Mr Cortina because what he's indicated is that there was a landscape plan that was submitted so rather than trying to resolve this tonight that's for you and Mr Cortina to discuss and then uh it looks like something was submitted on your behalf so if it's being carried now to September 25th this will give you an opportunity to speak with him and you can figure out what it is you're doing with it so yeah I think that's a great idea thank you very much for the benefit of anybody who's listening tonight this application is going to be continued to September 25th uh the applicant will not be obl ated to uh do any further noticing and it will be on the September 25th agenda for a continued hearing okay thank you very much thank you thank you very much you can take that one down or there we go um that'll move us on to 102 Lafayette Road Block 4.01 three and four R1 dasb Zone Aon are we in order yes the noticing is in order the board has jurisdiction tonight deric would you like to present your memo yes sir thank you um the owners Carolyn and Thomas scrier on 102 Lafayette Road they are the owner and applicant they're seeking a C1 variance or C2 excuse me variance request to permit the construction of a motor cork Garage in exception to the ordinance requirements the property is located in the r1b zone in the former Princeton burough the subject lot in the house comply with the applicable bulk requirements the applicant recently purched the joining vacant lot lot four and proposing to consolidate both Lots they're seeking to construct an Adu and an addition to the principal dwelling which includes a three-car Motor Court proposed Adu is compliant and will consist of three habitable rooms uh and the proposed area of the F the Adu is 2011 Square ft the size of the Adu is less than the maximum permitted size of 25% of the floor area ratio of the principal dwelling however this F is based on the proposed new Total F which includes 489 squ feet of living area association with the proposed Motor Court garage and um additions the proposed Motor Court requires the following variances um 17A 403 h2d uh roof height is limited to 25 the proposed is 26 feet 6 Ines um again Motor Court the number of stories 1703 a 403 h2d is limited to one story the proposed is two stories um and there's a limitation 17A 403h 2D which also limits the height of the motor Court Eve to 12T and the proposed Eve is 19 ft 2 in um and there's a Prohibition uh not allowing habitable space on the second floor um and there is a proposed habitable story above the uh Motor Court and then there's a requirement that limits the length of a facade facing a side Lot to 40 feet whereas the proposed length of the motor court is 49 feet 6 in um and there's a uh there is one variance associated with the ad which I believe the applicant is taken care of in there uh is a requirement of a window to be within 10 feet of the front facade the nearest front facade uh of the side wall um they request a consideration under the C2 criteria be glad to answer any questions you might have Bo are there any questions for Mr Bridger I have one question um the size of the Adu it meets the township criteria so long as we approve all of the variances for requested other buildings well the they they're proposing a large addition which uh that f is what the 25% of the oh God I can't hear them they they're proposing a large addition um which is calculated into the f of the main house so uh the proposed f complies with the additions that are proposed if they're not approved then they'll have to downsize the Adu to 25% of whatever the remaining floor area is okay thanks did you hear okay great I got it now I you're you're back okay good I'll stay closer it could be me so thank you uh any other questions okay uh Mr Ryan or Mr Kennedy I assume you're representing the applicants absolutely uh good evening Mr chairman this evening uh members of the board uh Ryan Kennedy from Stevenson Lee for the scriven family here tonight uh Claud we have one other it's actually two people behind one uh zoom camera if we could move over uh Kathy um that'll be our architect and designer will come on um as well I see them as uh attendees um this evening um as they come over I want to thank um you all for hearing us tonight as Mr Bridger said uh this is uh a couple of different things for us to look at here tonight first uh the scri family is building an Adu um for uh their parents uh to be able to live with them uh at their home uh and a lot of the design elements that we'll be talking about as variances um uh go to in some ways the design um uh as it relates between the main house and the Adu um as well as the ability of their architectural team to match the visual design uh of the existing home in in putting the uh motorc Court garage together um one element that is is perhaps uh uh Missing I suppose from uh the discussion is that this is currently you'll notice it's Lots three and four uh that's because much to the uh pleasure of the neighborhood the scri kind of bought this buildable lot next door and will be putting their kind of in-law suite there rather than it becoming uh another uh potential home kind of right up against uh their home uh in the neighborhood you'll see that um and we'll take kind of a walking tour of a lot of motor courts uh in Princeton we can see how they all relate to the main homes and while there are some I'll describe as technical variances um with the motorcourt design we hope you'll agree that their the drawbacks of doing it a different way are are much worse and that there's really no negative impact either on uh the Zone plan uh or the neighborhood frankly and I understand we'll have a good number of neighbors here uh to to say that as well uh this is a a couple that's um done a lot of homework to design this in a way that works for the neighborhood and a lot of Outreach with their neighbors too it's a it's a great community on that street and uh a lot of discussions have been had uh with with the neighbors about how to design this in a way that makes sense for everyone and one of the things that makes sense for everyone is that it's actually quite hard to see from the street you'll see this is as combined a lot that is four times the minimum lot size uh for a lot in this Zone and uh while uh I think the back and forth that um board had with with dererk a second ago about um the size of the Adu uh there are I guess other places without the variances where addition space could be built on the lot and but we'll go through why building it essentially over the garage in a way that almost I'll say mimics an attic or comes very close to the definition of a half story or an attic makes more sense than putting an addition elsewhere which they could do um and but it doesn't make sense as a way for them to Steward and and uh honor the design language of this approximately hundred-year um we'll say historic home um so with that um I'd love to introduce uh Caroline and Thomas scriven and and also we've got uh Kathy and and our architect Joe Gallagher perhaps we want to have them all four sworn in at at once if that uh makes sense sure Mr Mrs scriven Miss Bogle and I'm sorry the other gentleman is again Gallagher yeah Joe Gallagher do you swear actually miss Bogle you're muted um you swear or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I swear yes and where's Mr Gallagher right there oh there you are okay thank you got economies of cameras here this evening uh um so um Caroline Thomas if if you want to briefly introduce yourselves uh to the board and talk a little bit about your your goals here with with creating this space for for your family to I know age in place with you sure I I can start um I'm Caroline scriven um I grew up in Princeton till age 12 and um was very happy to move back here about 9 years ago my parents currently live around the corner from us on Cleveland Lane but they're getting a little bit old my dad's 92 now my mom is 76 um they're actually celebrating their 20 uh sorry their 48th wedding anniversary tonight so I'm we're very hopeful that we can give them some positive news after this meeting because um as you know many of you may have experienced yourselves or with friends and other family um it's getting a little bit harder for them to live on their own and um when we were successful in finally purchasing the empty lot next to us which had been owned by a trust that was impossible to contact for a long time um we became very excited about the possibility that we could have my parents actually integrated and living under the same roof so we can better take care of them um right now I literally run around the corner to Cleveland Lane five or six times a day to deal with all the things they need and they really shouldn't be living in an independent large home by themselves anymore um I we also have three boys ages 14 12 and five who see their grandparents all the time they have their own spaces over there but they're very much hoping that Grandma and Grandpa can live with us from now on you know for the duration and as um Kathy might point out a lot of the design elements that we have come up with with Joe and Cathy's I think brilliant ideas um accommodate all kinds of Adu thing um Ada things you know so they can be wheeled around we have a kind of oversized garage so that we can get them in their wheelchairs in and out of an accessible van you know everything is on the same level that kind of thing um and obviously we're happy to address any of the concerns anyone has but um we we hope we've done something really nice with a wonderful old house um and we really do love our neighbors and I think a number of them are on the call tonight to support us because we have in tried to include them every step of the way and making sure that they feel comfortable and happy with what we have planned and maybe so first of all thank you very much for um spending your night with us and other applicants um maybe just adding this sort of secondary considerations um we think it's a wonderful historical home we wanted to preserve the look of that both in design but also by having this set a little bit apart you you'll see that in the design um we're very lucky to have um some really nice green um Green Space um around it with some old trees I I I think we'd like to keep as much of that as possible so that has gone sort of in into the design and and um and I think we wanted to preserve sort of the Privacy um for our neighbors so you'll see it's incredibly far I think we're the most even after all of this we remain by far the most setback um house so so we hopefully we're accommodating um a lot of the spirit of the regulation even where we're asking um uh for the variances um uh and you know really thankful that you spent the time to discuss this with us thank you so much um well I sure you the applicants aren't going anywhere might be available any questions come later I'll offer that anyone has any questions for them before we uh move into our presentation yeah I have one question is the um Adu going to be a handicap compliant yes it will need to be yeah we can walk you through the layout of it so there's there's two bedrooms so we can have a nurse in there if that becomes necessary the width of the hallway so so um and the ability to put a ramp in if we need to in the garage um uh they're not in to be very clear no one's in a wheelchair yet but at 92 and late 70s um we're we're pushing our luck a little bit thanks right um with that if it's all right to if I share my screen and we Mark our one uh exhibit um our our slide deck um with apologies and I promise we'll get through them very quick there's the many of these are rapid fire slides but we do have 49 of them one of them says thank you but we uh don't don't expect to to be sitting here for an hour watching that the screen I show you um so before we get to our architecture team just I'll I'll ask the applicants to walk with me a little bit just as we Orient the board as we usually do to where this are uh you know Carol times this is a you know just kind of yes or no but we're this is the zoning map here and this Arrow points generally to where your house is y um and if you don't mind yeah just unmuting so they have to for the record we'll have to hear a yes like we can see the the the nods but and again as we zoom in on slide three uh we're getting a little closer in as we kind of fall from the sky towards your neighborhood yes uh next on slide four this closer into the neighborhood and I guess the yellow lot so the uh the red square is your existing home um and then the yellows are all of the uh Motor Court examples that we've studied is that uh your understanding yes yes so lots of motor courts in the neighborhood and I guess as we'll all see later many different examples that challenge our understanding of of Princeton's code I'll say that yeah this shows it better it's it's two lots talking about so uh if people can see my cursor the red is their existing home the wedge uh Lot number four is the lot next door that you bought from that trust that you're uh looking to consolidate and not have a you know have have have an in-laws for Neighbors rather than uh a a um another fre standing home correct I think this next slide slide five reverses the orientation but here we're getting a little closer to the neighborhood and I think uh Thomas says you noted uh this is this is the existing home here set back quite a bit um and and I think your comment was how um many of the other homes are are actually quite uh closer to the street and I and I I believe you can also probably see here the uh existing uh Tree Line kind of along the front part of your property uh and and on this back side where your pool is that you're looking not to disturb is so both screens the property and provides an area that you'd like to leave alone correct and and maybe just for interest sake you can also see my in-laws house here which is the one we're trying to which is just just I guess just right above it it won't be that long of a uh the moving trucks will just kind of have to loop around uh next and with apologies that we've reversed orientations again getting a little closer um here is uh your existing home uh this is that wooded area which you're not looking to disturb but you and prefer not to um and this is the uh lot um that you've purchased on on this side I think the one thing have to point out there are actually very few trees in of this lot because they were all as trees and came down in the last few year so this is this satellite image is at least two years old um but there are some there are large trees in the front of the lot maybe we have some pictures later yeah and and and in the back um but there this is actually um empty um I guess this this next slide shows um kind of generally how the new devel the new um addition and Adu will be kind of overlaid on to the new lot this next slide shows marks where which part of it would be the garage and which part of it would be uh the Adu for your for your in-law so um it's hard to say what we're looking at here but um this is the front view into your current house from the street yes yes so uh it I guess it's safe to say it is fairly well screened uh and would any of these trees be removed as part of the project no no so here here's the same view I suppose uh more recently in Winter you could see a little bit uh when there's no leaves on the trees but have an idea of of of the homes get another view of the current home with the current orientation um here are some more photos you can kind of see the front view um of the lot um next to you that you've purchased well it's kind of wooded in the front I guess this this shows what you were saying Thomas that the back at where there were some as a trees actually wouldn't really have much of a impact on any current trees and then looking at the current house uh kind of up the front that view on the right uh so with with that and I guess unless there are any other questions for the applicants I'd like to move over to our design and architecture team if that's uh all right but Mr chairman I'm happy to to pause again for any other questions if anything's come up I want keep going all right very good so um we've got a a a kind of a dual team here uh of an architect and a designer that worked on this project collectively I'll ask if they could both introduce themselves they've both been sworn in and their credentials and you know we'll be uh kind of I don't say tag team testimony but Kathy as the designer um we will'll take most of the the testimony tonight because she's the one who kind of worked predominantly uh with the applicants on putting this together um and uh uh Joe Gallagher the the architect of the team is here as well if we have any questions for him but if you could both maybe Kathy you go first um and I'll introduce yourself and and then Joe you next hi my name is Kathy Bogel can you hear me uh my business is bogal Design Group I've been working here in Princeton for about 20 22 years I'm background in architectural engineering um but I've been working with the scribens on this project and um really what I like to talk to you is sort of the through the design of the overall I have it in 3D cads so you can see what it looks like from the outside and different perspectives um and talk you through the the reasons why we did the massings the way we did okay Joe Gallagher behind me we've been working together for 20 years hi I'm I'm Joe Gallagher I'm a New Jersey licensed architect um I've done um been working you know in the Princeton area um for many years and um collaborated with Kathy on this project and um you know architect of record and taking professional responsibility thank you if if chairman if it's if it's acceptable like to have them accepted one I suppose our designer and one as our our architect record we will one quick question um Miss Bogle um yeah do you need to be licensed in New Jersey I wasn't clear if you if you hold a license I'm not licensed as an architect my background is actually engineering architectural engineering but Joe and I work together to um submit drawing so Joe will be the architect of record okay thank you Mr Kennedy we do accept many thanks Mr chair all right so now we're on slide 13 here um uh Kathy and and Joe this this is the colorized version of the site plan I understand blue um both on the site plan and in the front elevation is the existing home uh the red is the garage Edition that we'll be talking about and the green is the Adu is that right and then the yellow part is the existing lot four that uh the applicants have purchased and that will you know essentially bring into the fold here is that more or less correct that's correct all right so uh next up you know as as I I'll drive the bus but want don't you take us on a tour of you know the we've got some renderings here of uh and then get into the plans of what um you know what you've designed here and and why and and how to meet the needs of this uh this new type of coming kind of combined family arrangement sure yeah so um just to start as um Carolyn Thomas already mentioned one of the primary goals is for the new addition to um you know seamlessly integrate with the the existing 1920s architecture um also not disturb the large circular drive and any of the trees that were protecting the house so um we actually removed several trees from this rendering just so you can see the design um but it actually is quite wooded um the existing house um not sure if you can see my screen but I the existing house ends right here with the uh Breezeway that is the white connector piece um and then it begins to with the new proposed Edition at the Breezeway and then the motor Court which is the three car garage right there um really the goal was to integrate these new spaces also provide privacy between the main house and the Adu um allow for the three-car garage um which you know was oversized as we discussed to allower wheelchair access and Van access um we also were hoping to um you know have these spaces relate to the main house in that the roof line of the new motor Court matches the secondary roof line of the main house so that Eve and the motor Court um roof line align um we have the same materials the same roof pitch um and a similar window profile from the front elevation which is on the next page Kathy before we leave this slide so the main house is the type of two stories I think most people are familiar with technically need a variance to make the motorc two stories but maybe in describing it it's it's quite a different type of two stories in that it's you know a story with a a space above with ders is that yeah it really appears to be um a story and a half the reason why it's so tall is we do have a higher ceiling height on the lower level primarily to accommodate a van um and some additional storage but um also to just mirror that secondary structure to the right of the main massing I'm sorry to the left looking at it from this direction so you can see it more clearly here so the the secondary massing where the arrow is right now is existing and although the perspective doesn't show it on the flat elevation you can see that the new garage is actually has the same uh Eve height and same window profile and you're saying that was done to to to match and relate to the existing house and also because the first floor is actually quite tall um and and to to make it the the windows be of similar type you have to kind of design it this way yeah yeah another nice thing that the motor Court provides here that you can see is is a little visual separation between the main house and the Adu um Caroline's parents are used to living independently and they really didn't want to feel like they were attached to their par their daughter even though they wanted the convenience of being able to you know go seamlessly from one one dwelling to the other so this also affords them some privacy on their side of the house and then this last slide um in perspective is the Adu I seen from the street um our goal really was for the Adu to mirror the the size shape um at least the shape of the uh existing dwelling with the same roof pitch hip roofs brick exterior large uh fenestrations dormers on top but really at a much smaller scale next I think we get into the floor plans want to talk through what's what's new where the cursor is right now is the existing kitchen that a previous um homeowner turned a um garage into a kitchen and mudroom so that part is remaining in place and then the connector if you can move the cursor right there so that's the Breezeway connector between the motor court and the existing mud room um going through there we have kind of a back hallway um so the parents can you know Traverse wheel um directly from their apartment to the left um the Adu right across into the mudro and the kitchen of the main house now Kathy if that's a great arrangement for a an Adu that's used by family members but if if if it were in the future not to be used this could be sealed up and there would be no yeah quite simply thator right there could either be locked or sealed so it could become a separate Adu if family members don't live there but as it is currently the plan is for them to kind of seamlessly be able to Traverse between the two dwellings and then here in the bottom we we'll we'll get to a more blown up version of this iure everyone we can go into a little bit more detail um uh this is the second and third floor plans I don't want to say third floor I mean the attic of the main house so that's the bottom bottom right here right um yeah to the left is the second floor above the uh motor cor garage and that space is really designed to be like a kids play Space um you know really what we would all think of is like the finished basement space but in 1920s house with a low ceiling and know not great Plumbing that wasn't designed for a finished basement this allows you to have like a pool table a pingpong space um you know a teen hangout Bley space um and then part of the requirements for for Tom and um thas in Caroline was that we don't have that you know noisier teen place space above the new Adu so that's part of the reason why we really wanted to have it above the garage where the noises from ping pong and pool tables don't disturb um you know older parents and this the space above the Adu this is a storage and kind of it's primarily storage space we do have um a bathroom proposed above the um the hall bathroom of the Adu um but in general that's just quiet storage space and that would be however this floor though in attic is is not part of the Adu that's that's uh that's part of the dwelling living space next I guess we zoomed in a little bit to the Adu floor layout and where the garage is so want to take us through in a little bit more detail you know how the Adu particularly how one gets uh you know in and out through the garage with and and the accessibility features that you kind of designed in here right there's two options for entering the house um if the parents choose to park in the garage you know if they have a van or something that they need for the garage they can either Park in the bay on the bottom of the screen um which is oversized as well so that there's plenty of room on either side and then go through the door and into the vestibule um which is the primary entrance from the street oops and that's sorry when you say this would be like the secondary entrance that way I think the primary way that family would enter would be um using the up uppermost Bay and then going in through this door which it's really only a 6 in um plan step or maybe even less than that at this point with the grade um which we're planning on ramping if we need to um and then go right into the Adu from there and and part of the reason for this extra space here is so that these these Bays could have um uh and and room for a ramp if needed to to get here even though would even be a relatively uh what say small lift I suppose only hopefully only a couple inches when the final grading is we designed the house to be um relating to the grade of the main house so there really won't be much in the way of transition all right so um we'll be talking about these two uh kind of buckets of of of variances here related to the motor court and one and again a design thing none of these are no you couldn't have Adu or or um or know that the the space couldn't be built but the way that it made the most sense to lay it out um resulted in what we would call what I I'll call maybe design variances but parts of neighborhood character um that we're going to talk through um and explain why we've made these choices and why we we think that they're appropriate for for C2 variances the first bucket I guess is for facade articulation and then uh issues with the motorc court garages on on large Lots so you're all familiar with the neighborhood character this is the one here for sidewall articulation yes it does count for garage you know the front facade of a garage essentially and that's the part that we're we're talking about that needs the variance and both um uh here you'll see we've kind of sketched out that this width of this area where 40 is permitted without articulation we have 49 and a half beat uh but hopefully on this slide Kathy we can kind of talk through well one uh on on the right we've got the floor plan here so we talk about the reason why it's a little bit longer than than perhaps a normal garage or every uh to talk a little bit about well gosh is it still a yes it's a sidew wall that's not a front wall but it's it's not one that faces uh you know a side building actually it's it's quite screened and um uh addresses the main home rather than a neighbor um and then second I guess U Kathy you could talk through the design elements you've made to it that while don't well move in and out and break up the wall don't technically count as articulation I know the idea with articulation is to move in or out within if no more than a 40 foot left to right span two feet um front and back to create some visual interest in the wall we going to talk about the type of alternative visual interest you've created here with the the Dormers and the the called the shed roof elements and things that you've designed here yeah exactly that instead of um you know we really wanted to have this large garage for the reasons we talked about we just wanted to maximize accessibility and access into cars and knowing that transitioning from a car or a van especially if you're in a wheelchair does require extra room on either side so we really wanted there to be area on both sides of the garage doors to allow for that um and that most made most sense in a rectangular garage shape but in order to create facade articulation what we did is we added a roof above the garage doors um that's 2 feet deep that does give the appearance of articulation and similarly we have a dormer above um that projects up about two feet um and this is actually the roof line that we um had measured to at Derek's request as a opposed to this low lower Eve so the we'll get into that but this Dormer also does articulate this space although it does not in an in andout way it's more of a up and down articulation I guess while while this overhang comes out two feet it's not the full up and down so it doesn't count for articulation I'll ask you if if you were to do that would anyone really see it I guess between the screening or or is this a view of any kind of neighboring property I mean from the original pictures you can see it is a very wooded lot um and then also as far as what neighbors might see I think it's 300 feet off of that that side yard neighbor that would be looking at that um that garage wall so it's it's really not facing a neighbor in any way it's really facing into the courtyard of the main house well here's I guess maybe a good example of what someone would have to kind of peer or Wade through to to to for that articulation I guess once it's built so the the garage maybe would be kind of in I say this area I don't mean where these trees are but you'd have to look through these trees in order to see it that's correct all right um the next piece actually is is a variance that does affect the Adu um but again is one that um we we think it makes sense not to have a window in a particular location so the sidewall fenestration um requirement is that you can't go more than 10 ft uh from the front facade without um having a window and we have a spot on the corner of the U that's about 16 feet um here it is here's the the side pth is right this is the side elevation showing that Adu um and and this is the part that technically should have a window is that correct that's correct and just beyond um that blue wall is the main bathroom for the Adu so it would be matter of um you know putting it a small window above the vanity or in a shower which didn't seem especially appropriate um the bathroom design does have two large Windows facing the street um and really we were just trying to avoid the privacy issues of having a window looking into the into the um primary bathroom of the Adu to note that the distance between the sidey yard of the neighbor and the blue square that you're looking at is is over 40 feet so um there are trees and um Landscaping between the two I don't think there's any reason why anybody really see that uh you know blank is wall but uh that that is the reason that we didn't put a window there and while screened in a good deal way it actually is probably the one activity being in this bathroom that perhaps some some privacy is warranted between the closest neighbor at that point is that fair that's what we believe yes so here right this is a rendering you did showing uh the most likely kind of angle that someone would kind of get towards this with some of the trees that are there perhaps not all of them is that yeah and this is actually a modest amount of trees relative to what's on the property there there's more but if I put them all in you'd think I was purposely hiding the house and here's the you know the pretend there are no trees version we didn't want to you know make it seem like we were hiding something but this is the reality of of what um um you know what that facade would be like though unlikely that it could be seen that's correct all right um next going back uh to the motor Court there are several provisions of height they are very specific and uh uh I know some effort made in during the neighborhood character exercise there was a lot of thought put into front-facing garages and freestanding garage accessory buildings and some uh you know I I sat through the process myself as an observer um you know attempt to create a set of rules for for motor courts and as you'll see through our kind of walking tour in a minute Princeton motor courts are kind of all over the place but we we recognize a few kind of design statements from it that we feel even though we don't meet every technical requirement that we we hit um and so the the ones that we're going to talk about now is whether there is um habital space above it and we'll talk about why we think it's better to do that whether it's quote two stories and we'll talk a little bit about the difference in what technically is a story and show you what we've done that looks a lot different than the two stories of the main house for sure um and then the the roof height and Eve height um of the the main roof um and we'll talk about how why why we've tried to to match uh the main home items there so again here's um right this is the rendering of the motor Court frankly looking at it from The View that no one but the owners will see U but this best shows the design elements we're about to talk about is that fair that's correct so guests driving up to park in the driveway would would get a good view of this yes exactly that's coming around the uh circular drive right so as to height um uh first we we the requirement for a motor Court height is 25 you're you the way you've designed it to match the other height of the design amounts of the home is 26 and a half feet so quite close but um obviously not 25 ft um the second is that it should be one story and you know here we're two stories and technically it is two stories um we are quite close to meeting the definition of but don't uh Kathy if I have it right the attic definition is a function of this the height of this spring wall um and we are about six inches taller than what would make the five feet um possibly put it into a attic category and um you I guess we'll get in a minute get to talk about why uh because it's not necessarily space because you put a a knee wall here but U why that roof line was important to you design wise and then again the max Eve height and um as applied in Princeton they're not measuring it from the roof Eve which is actually quite lower uh but from the Dormer Eve and that's supposed to be 12 feet and to the bottom of the Dormer Eve we're 19 point two so uh Kathy help me out with this one but this was a attempt to show on the elevations and the kind of renderings the relationship between the things that we're thinking or two stories you know the main house the top of the roof the Eve um and the elements of this motorc court garage so is that uh so walk me through here the the Orange is your matching of this other design element of the kind of half story area of the front house right yeah so the main house has the primary massing and then the secondary massing um and the eve height of that secondary massing with a you know one and a half Story look um is that orange line and what we wanted to do is do um carry that same roof line across and we have the same windows on that second floor level if we were to lower this um what we'd end up with is is much smaller windows in that space um and you know we just thought it looked more balanced to have the the roof line um and the eaves relate in each Direction and then also use the same exact um roof pitch and hip roof detail that's on the main house so that created the height and the eve height and the Dormer height was really you know one to let light in and also to create that articulation that we were looking for on the motor court side so there's also a variance for uh not just because it's technically two stories but to use the space and you know I know you a lot of thought went into this site and and where you know you put this other space uh you know at 25% uh on a lot of this size there could be 20,000 square feet of floor area permitted um but so there there's no I guess there's no question that the the the applicant could you know create an addition and and you know and then some in in other parts but you want talk a little bit about why you chose to do it over the garage in this kind of compact way versus Elsewhere on the site yeah I think you know the effort really was it's already a sprawling home it you know we could have located a one-story space um as a play Space to the right um in that orange block um you know we have the the the floor area ratio allowable for that and also we still have additional impervious coverage to allow for that space but we felt by stacking it above the garage it was more conservative and impervious coverage and also just you know managed the space a little bit better and the overall look from the street but I guess even even if they were to go over here they'd be leaving coverage and floor area on the table and I guess they could yeah we have 7,000 additional square feet in um in F that could be built and another over 2,000 square fet in impervious coverage that we could potentially build but I think the goal really was to not cover so much of the lot or take down as many of the trees got it got it and and obviously uh the the building in the yellow area um which well has trees in the front and there's trees kind of in this area screening the front of the house uh really uh does not impact um almost no trees in that area uh so lastly um and and I we did promise the board a quick tour um these yellow spaces are um other motor courts in the area that we've we've pulled to just help the board understand some of the design elements that are are seen here positive or negative um as compared to to our design so here we've got um 42 uh Lafayette um and we'll we'll do we're not here to comment negatively or positively on any other home design but wanted to to show examples where there was um likely livable space or or taller spaces in in some situations um here's some some street views there um showing um showing that um here we go to 80 Cleveland um again an example with uh three Bays that's close but perhaps closer to the 40 foot before articulation um and but with Dormers uh in a similar height U situation as ours and again Kathy would would you say a a relationship of main house to lesser structure that we' kind of shown with our project yeah definitely similar um another example with uh if you were to measure to Dormers likely be above the the 12 foot uh requirement um and again many of these likely have usable space above um an an example at 70 Lafayette unquestionably with with usable space uh above um and and perhaps you know a design that doesn't necessarily step back you know from a height perspective below the main uh that we certainly tried to do and we felt was one of the at least the essence of what was what the code was kind of looking for in in having a feature be subordinate to uh to the main home um and then we found one around the corner that certainly well exceeds the the 40t without articulation um which is again fairly common the minimum that a three car garage would be is about the 40 foot range um once you add those Extra Spaces to the side or multiple other Bays you know you get into that range technically uh Motor Court rules do limit you to three cars now um but um uh the extra space on the side Cathy believe you designed to allow you know for Van accessibility which is you know a bit of a new thing um so with that um well happy to make our our team available for any questions certainly thank you for your time here uh today um you know the story from our end is that this is a a plan to to adapt uh 100e plus old home uh for for modern use with the very unique situation of being able to acquire and consolidate an adjacent lot uh very uniquely screened um uh from the front yard and and a series of design um choices that we feel um meet both the intent of Princeton's code and the um certainly the requirements for a C2 variance uh just in quick summary um of that you know if you look at the the purpose of zoning just very quickly we think a c i j and and L with senior community housing construction um all are Advanced um by the the elements of this design um it is very specific to this property both with the screening and the adjacent lot and the the uh area that we'd like to not build on the the wooded area to to the side um for the purpose of zoning that I mentioned uh would be Advanced from this particularly in making a Space accessible for uh elderly parents and uh we we feel that there's actually no real detriment at all to these particular design choices and that they the the benefits substantially outweigh uh the detriment which we we couldn't really think of of anything um that was uh negatively impacted from these things that you couldn't see and if you could see them you would recognize we hope that they the design choices help relate this historic structure to the new one rather than introducing kind of arbitrarily different height elements to it um so again with that happy to be available for uh any questions and again thank you all for your your time here tonight thank you Mr Kennedy do we have questions for the presenters members yes Donna um Mr Kennedy the uh slides that you showed when you were showing some of the motor courts I guess you were showing the ones the properties that you had in yellow you also had some properties in blue with some hash marks so blue was a function of the mapping software they use those are actually homes that sold recently um the county mapping system uh we're not able to turn off blue that's their layer that says that there was a sale recently it's it's software that we kind of I say borrow from the system that the tax assessors use and blue meant was a recent transaction I see okay the um the motor courts that you showed do they predate or postate the ordinance um we believe about half of them uh are are newer than the ordinance and the rest and and half of the show uh don't but this was you know kind of a rough survey several of them are post ordinance um no no I digress no no all they'll preate then AP yeah there was 2018 there was almost 2019 what 70 Lafayette which is two doors down was completed in the last few years you're muted Derek I think that was approved and built approved before the ordinance took effect and built afterwards so then none of these motor courts with two stories postdate the ordinance none of them got variances is my question not that we're aware of no the other ones were 70 Lafayette was approved in 2018 prior to the ordinance we're not aware of any variances like these being granted yet uh for for for this in so I just wonder why the ordinance now prohibits that which they're asking for I could take a stab at it I mean the uh the whole neighborhood character ordinance was very concerned about the placement of cars and garages so um was primarily concerned about the setbacks and uh this was an opportunity I believe to allow people to have front-facing garages because you know a front-facing garage typically has to be set back 16 ft or a side entry garage which has to be set back eight this would allow garages to be in front of the building um in exception to those but it required a larger lot area and it required a few other options that uh wouldn't work on smaller Lots okay Michael yeah I guess it relate a question then I want to think that there had to be some substantial discussion on Rec you know prohibiting habitable space that's just a glaring thing in this coat yes and if if you know of anything Derek fine but if not that's something you know we can all Shake our heads about it and maybe disagree with it but it is is something that the town responsible parties put in place and it's so I don't know if you have any comment uh Mr Kennedy on or or any uh supposition or or anything I mean it's just glaring yeah again having uh having sat through those processes and I don't mean to say that this was one that happened at the end of a long process when there was a lot of thought on a lot of things um I don't want to testify to my recollection of of pro ultimately no um you know and and um in in in our mind um it is a function of the best place to allocate floor area um in in ways that are not if the concerns about garage placement and facing are uh appear appearence and um proximity of structures to neighbors um the prohibition on um habitable space the the sizing for example um makes some sense um in this case even assuming that those were the the motivations to to protect the scale or to perhaps um uh allocate usable space to to certain areas of a lot uh in this unique case this is the best alternative on from a C2 perspective to use floor area on the site without having a um you know it would be about a foot and a half shorter and um no I I understood your yeah yeah the rationale that you presented uh and the applicant presented thank you Derek do you have anything to add to that I I remember the main discussion being on front-facing garages uh and there was limited discussion on on the uh Motor Court um I I kind of concur with Ryan it was added in at the end and I don't remember a lot of discussion about the habitable space but um it's been six or seven seven years so yeah okay other questions yeah I have a question could we see the floor plan of the Adu has that been presented yet I I'll bring that back up absolutely apologies for I should have I should have moved to the slide before I shared my screen so sorry for the the jumping here so this Kathy you want to maybe take us through it here but this this portion here the majority of this screen is is the Adu floor plan oh okay Kathy maybe this a good time to just go through it again yeah I don't know if you have any specific questions that you'd like me to address or I could tell you um you know how the layout works but essentially this is the primary great room the living dining um eating space for the Adu that faces the rear yard um we also have two bedrooms so this would be potentially a guest room or a nurse's room with its own bathroom accessible through a um a wider hallway we also have a main foyer with a vestibule that faces the road um and nonroad facing um entries uh to the Adu and then this whole left side really is a large primary Suite for the parents who um you know once again just in case we had some mobility issues like left plenty of room on either side of where the bed's going to be a nice quiet closet and a large bathroom with a you know curbless shower and room for moving around okay from an Adu parlament it's two bedrooms and three habitable rooms these two bedrooms and the kitchen living area being the three habit bards okay thank you welcome Michel um if allowed to do habitable space over the motor Court there's still you you have as a right still to build additional space in the future so it's it's you know presenting that you know if you the haveit little space over the garage that means you that means now you won't not too much won't but do an option of building additional but you'll still be able to do it and and have the habitable space over the garage and you know when the when the code says not to have habitable I I think that's a I can only give you what we what what we were thinking we we thought it would mean we could keep more of the uh Green Space have zero interest in building anymore this is I didn't love if I didn't love in-laws uh quite frankly this yeah so um I I I can only tell you um what what what our intent is and and why we thought why we thought through it this way and we quite frankly wanted to keep it Compact and minimize what is very nice area and so um that that was sort of the trying to find tradeoffs between what we can do feels is more from POS of design and and look I understand a lot of Regulation we tried to we tried to work in the spirit of it and and and that was sort of the intent behind and why we thought that was a good place to put it yeah I will also I'm not quite sure what the definition of habitable space is everyone we know pretty much who has a motor court or any garage has some space above it I don't know why it's not considered habitable when people are habiting it with those Dormers and and to dereck's point the these houses we showed may not have come after the ordinance change but if you drive around at houses that are currently under construction there are some motor courts with Dormers that are clearly going to have upstairs spaces and maybe they got them classified as addicts instead I I don't really quite understand why one thing is what um so I I you know and having not been there at the time of the of the decisions I don't I don't know what the rationale behind it was um you know well people people do do things illegally too just when Derrick's watching that and and the difference between illegal and doing it legally is whether or not we Grant a variance or not Grant a variance but a lot of people do a lot of things illegally and it's glaring but we can't police at all that's the answer that's sad well we we don't want to do anything without following the rules so that's why we're here so and we greatly appreciate that do you have another question yeah I have one more question um the length of the facade of the garage I see the garage you've got three bays and two of the bays are oversized um if you only had one Bay oversized would it maybe diminish the amount of variance you needed Kathy I'll let you ask answer that I guess if you shorten it it would I mean it would you would I guess that variant is is kind of a you know yes or no one you know anything over 40 requires it if it you know if we were 45 it would be I suppose slightly less but you might want to speak to that a little bit I think you know one of the I think one of the design ideas was with one Bay would be used likely with the wheelchair accessible van closer to the house to get in through the other way you know through internal and the the second extra sized space would allow the same thing but if if it was you know if the Adu door was closed off and it was someone uh you know like a a you know 20 years in the future a rental or something like that um would be wouldn't be accessing the Adu through the the main house and would perhaps have a van in the left most space yeah I think that Ryan pretty much summarized it I we really just wanted to have the flexibility of having you know being able to come in in either Direction with a wheelchair um and you know also you this is going to be a house that has three growing boys um two grandparents and nurse par you know we're going to have a lot of garbage cans and bikes and sports equipment and who knows what else in addition to you wanting it to be wheelchair accessible so we were just really trying to create a space that allowed everybody to have what they needed thanks other questions all right we may get to more questions later do Mr Kennedy you want to give a no okay we'll uh close this session and open it up to public comment if there's somebody in the public who com public who would like to speak please hit the raise your hand button the raise hand button and we will transfer you over to this screen can somebody explain in a little more detail because I know some of my our neighbors are on um and okay I'm on they yeah they'll they'll be brought over don't worry they'll be brought over yeah okay who who who are we hearing from first this is says Carol Anderson Well Carol is my wife and we're um our neighbor we're neighbors of the Scrivens across the street on 101 lafed Road all right we just need we just need to swear you in do you swear affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful yes thank you but we've known the scriven since they moved in what six seven years ago I forget how many years now um nine Steve nine no way um sorry anyway um and we think they're great neighbors and the only thing that we really didn't like about them as neighbors or it's not their fault is that the house they're currently live in is doesn't have a garage and so this is a great plan for them to have a nice garage and then also to have Caroline's parents live with them and so we're in favor of it I think it's going to improve the neighborhoods better than having a another whole big house built in that little small lot there and um it's going to keep everybody happy in the kodac good thank you very much Maria do we have other people who would like to speak uh Mrs h i pronounce that yeah we need to give us your address first please 87 at all righty and do you swear or affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful I do thank you yeah so I live across the street kind of uh on the diagonal so my house would be across from the lot that they've purchased and I'm quite thrilled actually that they've with the plans that they've set up and the proposal of how they laid out the land especially because when I look out through the front of my house I can see that lot but with the amount of trees and the way they position their their their their unit and their garage it's going to actually be lovely and the best part about this entire plan the most thoughtful part of of this plan was that there's not another driveway coming right down um into that um that traffic pattern there is no stop sign at the end of this on that corner coming around so the traffic coming down comes quite quickly so to add another driveway and an extra traffic would really and a big sort of another structure would really uh diminish I think our neighborhood so this is really we're very grateful and and it's a really nice design so I just want to be in full support of it for them thank you very much absolutely I saw somebody else oh Rachel Gman yes I don't know can you hear me yes we need to swear you in yes okay with your address yes first address please 0 Lafayette Road all righty and do you swear our affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful that's correct thank you so I'm the closest neighbor to Caroline Thomas and I've you know lived next to this lot for actually 25 years I actually bought half the lot to build my house on and I understand that there's several variances required to um be accepted to um accept the design they proposed but I think this design is far superior to to the idea of building a large house as was built at 70 Cleveland that took up every inch of buildable space and I think the design and the variances that you know uh have been proposed actually are the best aesthetic for the neighborhood and probably the best Dynamic for the entire area so the question about the habital habitable space above the garage is is true but on the other hand we're utilizing that at the expense of a large surface area house which takes up every buildable inch so I completely endorse it and I'm the closest neighbor good thank you very much um Claudia are there any other neighbors who would like to speak yes Christopher green Christopher Green State your address yes please yeah I'm at 89 Cleveland Lane my name is Christopher green I'm speaking on behalf of my wife Ariel green as well as my mother-in-law Ivy Lewis who's at 95 Cleveland Lane and we are the immediately adjacent neighbors to the rear of um Tom and Caroline scriven and we really want to strongly express our support for this really thoughtful and elegant design we're thrilled most of all by The Desire by Tom and Caroline to really maintain some of the beautiful Greenery and trees that both of our properties can enjoy and we are really strongly in favor of being able to have their design reduce that footprint like they describe not extend into all of the usable uh floor area that they could and to instead be able to maintain some of that beautiful landscaping that they so wonderfully Steed for the neighborhood we also have very small children I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old daughter we're thrilled to keep the traffic in the neighborhood reduced and to see the properties remain within a family that is as dear and long friends of uh my wife's family um through through uh many years so we're strong in favor as another immediately adjacent immediately impacted neighbor to the Scrivens thank you no thank you Mr Green anyone else Claudia I've see no more hands okay we will close the public comments Mr Kennedy you have anything else to say no just thank you all again um I I hope that the the testimony from the neighbors um helps butress the arguments that we're making here about these C2 Varian these are ultimately design choices that not just don't negatively impact the surrounding properties of the Zone but as youve as you've heard benefited um um Mr Floyd makes an excellent point um you know that someone else could in the future come and expand the house further I suppose as of right um and there's a lot of designs that could be done as of right that wouldn't have brought us to this board but these couple waited the the time to do the design that they felt made the most sense for the neighborhood the most sense for their growing family um and and for their property to reduce and and um uh keep uh it as forested as possible particular in that rear side area which would be the obvious place to expand otherwise um and the other uh Design Elements um no one would really see but but I think those who do see it all tend to agree that they're actually positive additions to match the roof lines to articulate um the front facade in this way rather than just arbitrarily stepping it out two feet which they could do and not need any of those variances but to do it with Dormers um and the overhang is is something more in keeping with the design of the home it it gets the a similar visual function for those who could even see it and allow it to relate to the main home um so for for those reasons um we we we hope the board agrees that this versus the you know many of less thought out and as of right options that they could kind of build um you know without coming to the board U makes a lot more sense uh fits the needs um um and supports the needs of of the neighborhood of this family and allowing someone to age in place here um and um the design elements that respect this kind of historic home at the same time so but thank you all for your for your time tonight and much appreciate um uh you working with us here thanks thank you Miss Mr Kennedy board members any other questions for the presenters if not we will go into executive session and like to hear what you all think um Donna um Derek is realistic that the lot were not Consolidated into the scriven lot which support a normal you know normally sized home uh I'd have to check the size of it like let me uh I mean just not detailed but you know the neighbors are are kind of basing their um support on the fact that this is so much better than having another freestanding single family house and I'm just wondering would that be realistic on that lot if it helps I know D while D's looking it's it's about a 20,000 foot lot so at 25% that'd be a 5,000 foot house that could be built there correct okay thanks thank you Ryan any other comments motions Michael as well um one comment and it's okay with me I I I see the neighbors are still on the screen and part of this discuss you know here um shouldn't they be you know we normally drop them from this part of it but anyway to to move on um I'll be surprised if having the space be not be habitable will kill this application so um I can support the other variances I cannot support sort of this blatant uh part of this code so that's that's my brief comments thank you other comments I uh yeah I I I do think this is a a sensitive uh well thought out solution to um to the site and and the neighborhood I see what um Michael is saying as far as the um the the struggle to reconcile the um allowing the habitable space uh above the garage but I I do think it it is a better uh it's it's um a more sensitive uh design solution for the property than to expand that kind of wreck area as as a new space but um I yeah I I see the issue there um I agree with that issue I I think that the design is terrific I think it really works and looks nice and and all that sort of stuff the question of course Michael is we say you can't use that space and you know like you said then they'll illegally use it and I don't know what you do about that so therefore I I kind of supported just because they asking for it and not trying to go around the rules so I would support this well I hear but I know what understand already said they wouldn't illegally use it and there is no proposal in front of you to build an addition on the other side of the house so that's that's not a fate to complete or you know it yeah but I I understand what you're saying and this is not the first time this habitable space has come up and it will keep coming up and but vot as vote as you decide the code will still be there and it's just black of white other comments motion is the plan workable for the applicant if you lck off that Second Story above the garage well I'll say that that plan would I guess kind of remove all of the elements that we've been talking about tonight so I I don't know it would it would be a redesign and probably an as of right design that would have to go elsewhere on the property to get what they need and And to clarify the what I was saying was not Lop it off because I would still be voting for the height um as it's just the habitable question which the code says it shouldn't be I'm not saying L It Off motion oh go ahead Donna so if if if board members like the plan because they dislike the alternative of putting the room on another part of the property is it appropriate to or even are we allowed to say you can't you know the applicant will agree not to further um no Karen saying no I I I don't see how I mean right now the house and the lot are completely compliant um I was going to ask Derek how much square footage now would there be if the application is approved I think the question was asked previously is the What's the total square footage of this Consolidated lot that's I think the answer was 20,000 square feet so that a 5,000 square foot new home could be built there but how much is the square footage now with what they can build you know what they're presenting tonight the existing size of the house is 5736 5,736 square feet the proposed principal dwelling with the Adu and the addition would be $12,000 556 square feet how much dere I didn't hear that 12,000 I'm sorry Derek say that again uh I'm sorry the proposed dwelling with the Adu um the F will be 12556 square feet so um if I understand this correctly right now they would have over 12,000 square feet but if they began again they would only be able to build a 5,000 foot new home that doesn't that no I don't know I mean the existing house is 5700 square feet okay proposed is 12,500 Square F feet they could actually build it the f 25% they could build uh it's a it's about 21,000 square feet that total that could be built okay I think Don of the problem is that if they can build it as a right uh I don't think the board can tell them give that up if if you want these variances for your motor Court you can deny the variances for the motor court or you can Des deny some or all but uh the board can't uh use that as leverage to say well you can't you won't be able to build as of right you know so choose choose building as of right which apparently they could build out further or choose your thanks okay I understand um I have yeah I have a question for Mr Bridger which is if the Adu is 2,000 something square feet then doesn't the main house have to be like 8,000 the main house is 10,000 in change ah with the additions yeah so no problem got it thanks good question George other comments questions motions I'll make a motion okay I move that we approve all the variances except the request for a variance for habitable space over the motor Court second floor I'll second Stein got a motion in a second any discussion so what exactly does that mean it's up to them on that it means they can go forward with everything except for habiting you know making the uh Motor Court space habitable but they can use it as an addict space yeah whatever it's permitted it's pretty simple any other discussion if so yeah when when you say use it as an attic so what would that include Derek I guess it has to be unfinished space I mean I don't with I don't know I don't I'm so I mean I I guess the question that's that maybe is behind this is if you're approving two stories mean Michael it was your motion so you want to approve two stories but I guess the question then is so what are they doing with the second story if you don't want it to be habitable well I'm not sure that's the question okay the statement is you can't have it you know you can't make it living space other than that it's whatever you know okay but they need a they need a variance for that second story that's not as a right they need that variance and I'm saying I'm saying approve that well you're saying that space can't be finished it can't be drywalled just be insulated and whatever normally normally keeps a space in the zoning officer's eye as not being a habitable space that's not a New Concept so whatever criteria is used no typically it's by space by the nature of itself it's unhabitable like an attic with mechanical equipment within the space and uh or that ceiling height is less so or a door doesn't lead to it maybe it's a Scuttle I I'm just I'm trying to figure out where to go with this if it does get approved and it comes to my desk what do I I also I got to note that that building a second story that can't be used is not economically feasible so that the the applicant just wouldn't be able to do that you know there's there's cost to building another story um and to to build one like a false unusable Second Story is is is not economic you know and they'd probably be back to Derrick's office but not here to find another place on this property to use have usable space for their kids to play you know ping pong or whatever their needs are or not build additional space but that's that's their call so if you're saying basically and and and Derek well what I propose only works you might as well say you can't do two stories then that's part of the mo then I can amend a motion to that but that's that's you guys asking for that and if that makes it more workable then fine I'll agree to that I have a question in terms of habitability I presume if it's not heated um you know that would be or or cooled that would be not habitable among other factors that would make a living space is habitable but posi that certainly make it unhabitable I'm just saying that no one's going to build a 20 the design that you saw with the eaves and Dormers like that don't make any sense if that space can't be used well fact that it's not heated or cool you can use the space for storage and when it's temperature is fine you can play ping pong up there but you know you can't live there year round yeah I don't um let me just get a clarification if we have a motion and a second if we vote that motion and second down correct then can we have another motion yes you can sure y okay if if if we don't if I could just add one more point that are team just made that counting that space as habitable floor area um also is I going to say necessary but the Adu calculation fails then at that point and I don't know that if that is not floor area that this design that we've presented with the Ado of that size actually mathematically works and it would be some other probably use variance to Grant an oversized Adu at that point apologize for extra complications but uh astute person on my chat here pointed that out that you know the we would almost have to build another addition to get the other main house floor area to have this Adu design at that point okay um I vote against this because I against this motion wait are we call wait are we calling for a vote or can we talk about it a little more I think wanted to say you're talk about it before the motion is made all right we have a motion in a second okay so we should all vote before we discuss another motion okay could I just clarify so the motion right now is uh Michael is it approval of all variances except for habitable habitable space over the motor court or did you say and only one story I never said only one story so the motion they they they said there was there was no reason to approve two stories quite honestly if you approve if you want to approve one story fine or um you know that wasn't my go okay got it all right so your motion is I will go there if they say if it's if it's why approve two stories if you're not going to be able to use it okay I heard that the thing is there's a motion now that the board has to vote on so I appreciate I understand I heard it Mr Kennedy said too but for the purposes of voting we just need to know what the motion is so your motion was move approval of all variances except for allowing habitable space over the motor court and George gave that a second yes you're right got it all right so I'm fine want to vote now or do you want to discuss it further vot let's vote V okay Miss Chen uh no I I'd actually support the full uh request Mr Floy yes Mr Scher no Mr Stein yes [Music] Miss Donna yes all right the motion passes this project will not be built in anything that approaches what you saw here tonight unfortunately thank you for your time but um thank you Mr Kennedy okay we're gonna take a five minute break we'll convene again at 956 e e e e e e e for e for I hope we didn't lose B Bernice hello Elizabeth hello sorry I have two um okay we're all back uh the next application is 22 Parkside Drive block 9901 lot 6 R-3 tzone Princeton Battlefield HD Karen are we in order oops Ken you're muted there we go yes the noticing is in order the board has jurisdiction tonight thank you very much Derek would you like to present your memo thank you chairman uh reason and Yani haer are the owners and applicants 22 Parks Side Drive they are seeking C1 and C2 variances to permit the construction of new single family dwelling on a lot in exception to the required lot Frontage um and an inground pool is proposed in exception to the required accessory structure setback the property is located in the R3 T Zone in the former Princeton Township um land use ordinance the subject lot has two frontages on Parks side the frontage on the western side of park side does not comply with the required 150 foot lot Frontage the existing is 49.95 Ft um the lot's currently vacant except for a historic garage and historic well building and the uh the REM remnants of an historic windmill are located on the western section of the plot property's located in the Princeton Battleground historic district Battlefield historic district and um Elizabeth Kim is here this evening to present the historic preservation reviews commission's report on that um applicant is proposing to construct a one-story contemporary style single family home with a fully finished basement featuring five bedrooms a kitchen living room dining room family room study five bathrooms in INR pool um the lot does not comply with their Frontage on the western side it requires a variance requirements 150 the existing is 49.95 applicants should advise if they have contacted uh adjacent Property Owners to determine if they would sell any property to lessen or eliminate the variance or in alternative purchase of subject lot um the subject property um has two frontages which equates two front yards and the driveway and the front entrance of the house oriented to the east however um a pool is proposed to the west and it's similar to the first case we heard tonight um the pool is considered an accessory structure and it's not permitted within the front yard um which is defined as the distance between the lot line in the nearest building line um of the house um the required setback would be 165.540 April 27th 2022 for a lot Frontage variance which was approved um the design never moved forward and the applicant is seeking uh the same variance relief while presenting a new design the pool was proposed in a similar location in the previous application and was permitted however the accessory structure ordinance was revised in the interim uh necessitating a variance if you have any questions um I'd be glad to address them um there's just one note there's a water easement that appears to be located where the new home is proposed the applicant should address whether it is active and if not whether it can be removed and if you have any questions I'd be glad to address it any questions for Mr Bridger uh do we want to miss Kim to make your presentation now of course well just swear you in Elizabeth I can you hear me I can you're not muted you're on both yeah okay okay um Elizabeth uh do you swear from your testimony this evening will be truthful I do thank you um so as Mr Bridger stated this application is coming back for a second design the original design that was approved they never mooved forward on it um they came before HPC with a concept review on April 8th 2024 to discuss the reason for why they're coming back with the change and um the applicant I'm sure will address this but um what they had presented to HBC at the concept and at their formal review on August 12th of 2024 is that they um there was some design criteria that they wanted to um perfect and they also needed a patio in the back and the previous design which had a larger footprint and impervious did not allow for them to build that because they had already maxed impervious out so they have to come forbearance for that but I'm sure there's more that they will um talk to your board about um that the property does contain three historic structures a garage a pump house and a windmill in addition to being the Princeton um Battlefield stoning Brook Village historic district it's also in the drumthwacket out building historic district known as the farmers's house and Barry uh some of the changes from the previous design is the existing gravel driveway that accesses the existing historic garage and the existing Fieldstone walls adjacent to this garage and pump house will be removed and a new driveway access installed in front of the proposed house um there were two members of the public who spoke at our meeting um some of their comments was that they were concerned about the implication of the design in relationship to the battlefield and the neighboring properties um and there was another neighbor jent neighbor who was concerned they felt that um the new design the multicolor the multi-level design um and the material was less recessive than the original design um with HPC reviewing this and the presentation made by the app applicant they did support this unanimously with one extension um but they did have um several recommendations which are in the memo they requested that all LED lighting b2700 Kelvin that any new fencing um not be physically connected to any of the storic structures or to you know the garage or the wellhouse all utilities be underground um some additional information added to the South elevation drawings relating to the exterior stairs um that the applicant should also include in their drawings gutters and roof drains and where that would be discharged on the property and that it should not be directed towards any the distor buildings on their property or the adjacent properties they also ask that a proposed grading plan be available for HPC to review just to make sure that it is in keeping to the landscape of that property and and the um the um Battlefield and while HPC does not recommend extensive landscape on this they felt that there would be um appropriate landscape that would benefit the Improvement to the property on the site in addition to creating some buffers um to retain the historic character of the uh the battlefield and uh the HPC also was recommending if your board would like that they'd be happy to provide a subcommittee to work with the applicant otherwise that was all the comments that HBC had and I'm available for any comments that you may have thank you very much M uh any comments or any questions for her okay before we move forward Derek could you review again what we approved the first time and what the difference is is being asked for now um there was the board approved a lot Frontage variance on the western side it's the same dimensions as it as exists today um there was a pool um on the plan that was previously approved however in the interum the ordinance changed which doesn't permit pools which are accessory structures within the front yard which is defined as the closest point of the building line to the uh most adjacent nearly parallel L line okay thank you uh to the applicant are you ready to make a presentation um hello again thank you so much um for having I didn't want to interrupt you if your husband's going to testify too we'll swear him and now I know you I swear you in previously hell swear or affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful I do thank you thank you so much again for your time we realize it's late uh we do have um our architect worked with us with the new design here and um before going forward most of you look familiar I actually checked and you know it's been two and a half years since last time we were here in front of the same computer with you guys um so um you know I'm we live in Princeton we've acquired we bought this lot in 2021 we went through the entire process with HPC and Zoning Board as it was mentioned back then uh we had to make adjustments um because mainly because we figured that with the old design we're not having much of patio space the and the house was frankly too big uh which was I believe one of the concerns last time around and it's the two of us we have two daughters eight years old and 10 years old they keep asking every day when we will build our house so they're anxiously waiting um and um you know in terms of other stuff I mean I I'll I'll be happy to answer any questions but I don't want to get more of your time so Jeff if you help help us please with the new um design and the presentation we would appreciate um Mr in yeah we will do you or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful I do thank you um and just for the record I've appeared in front of this board before you may recognize me yes we you're a licensed architect I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey okay and you were previously accepted as an expert in architecture by this board is that correct that's correct all righty and you are the architect of record for the project correct all right thank you okay just going to share my screen it's up okay um we're at 22 Parkside Drive um it is a unique site um being that it's fronts on two sides but it's not a corner lot um so it fronts in a Parks Side Drive and then Parks Side Drive loops around and then it fronts on the other side um and it's also unique because it's a six-sided site within a regular shape um so this is the existing site that you see right now um this is a photograph showing the existing driveway on the left side of the property um and the one of the out buildings in the background um the second photograph is looking from the other front yard um looking back onto the site we have the well building on the left and the garage on the right and then the adjacent building that's not on the property um this is a side view of the site looking at the garage the historic garage that we're maintaining as well as the um historic building in the background um this is the other building that's the adjacent on the adjacent property I'm blow up of the garage this is our well building um and this is just to put this in context with the neighbors 34 Parks side on the right hand side and 25 Parks side on the right hand side our lot is this wooded area um 22 Park Side um this is a photograph from Parks side looking into the site you can see that it's a slope site so with the design we're taking advantage of of the slope to provide for a walk out basement um this this is the other Frontage the smaller Frontage and you can see um it's heavily wooded um this is the side that the pool would be on but the pool would be about 100 fet away from the property line it it would not be visible from the street um and this is our proposed site plan you can see that the front the first front yard on Parkside Drive is 93 feet 93.7 four feet and the other Frontage is the 49.4 five feet um the the lot withd at the building um depending on which side you take it from is approximately 162 feet across um in this site plan you can see we have our existing Stone driveway on the left hand side um we're going to eliminate that driveway and cut a new driveway in on the right hand side of the property that'll come across to uh side facing garage um we'll also provide a few parking spaces in the front of the residence um as Derek mentioned it's approximately 3600 foot home five bedrooms three bedrooms on the first floor two bedrooms on basement level um the house at its highest point will be approximately 16 feet above grade um and that's due to the the natural slope of the property so we'll have a walk out basement on the left hand side this is a front and rear elevation um these are the two side elevations garage side elevation um and our left side elevation and then these are a few renderings just to show the the building in context we're proposing to use similar materials to the adjacent historic buildings um but use them in a modern context various perspectives of the building to show it in context with the historic buildings on the site and then this is uh just a um proposed building materials stucco um Cedar red cedar wall at the garage we'll have a red window frames and then our brick will be in a soldier course pattern but it'll be a similar brick to what you see on the historic buildings um this is just to give you a sense of the type of Windows we're [Music] proposing garage door which will match the window color [Music] lighting um pavers in front of the house and then the the remainder of the driveway would be asphalt um just showing the idea for a pool surround which will be blue stone fencing that will be required around the pool um which is a dark bronze metal fence and that that's the end of that part I just want to go back to the site plan the the reasoning for the positioning of the building is to reflect the angles of the ex two existing historic buildings so we're playing off the existing well building and the existing garage um and tucking the building in in front of those um this here is the pool which will be 105 ft from the property line um I think that's about it for my presentation um there are any questions Mr fler uh do you know how many slides you had in this presentation um I'd like to mark this as exhibit A1 and I just wanted to indicate how many slides okay just a moment there are 26 slides great thank you okay any questions for the applicant board members I have one quick question are you using the the historic building closest to the pool as a pool room pool house or just leaving it as is um I think that would be better answered by the applicant thank you thank you for the question you so um the goal is to use it as a very small pool house it's it's it's very small um that's that's the idea we don't know if it's going to happen immediately with the construction or maybe a little bit later I'm just curious thank you other questions the um the water easement does the applicant know anything about this water easement I do actually um I was earlier today looking at uh the board's this this very board's um memo and Mr richer um you can perhaps verify this um um either today or later this is um this is our um findings of fact conclusions and resolutions granting C variance that goes back to uh two years ago when we came in front of the board and on that memo it's written that it was testified that the water easement for the neighboring property has been abandoned and expired under its own terms once the neighboring property connected to public water um this is something that I could find as part of the memo and the extent of my knowledge on this okay so well that's true the the the resolution references testimony by your then architect Eric holterman so this was his testimony all right I don't I don't I have no reason to believe otherwise I have not heard anything different than this I see I see what you're saying I I I found it in the um in the um board's document thank you course other questions Michael George noise uh any want to anything else you'd like to add before we go to the public comment no actually actually I have a just a clarification for the applicant there are a number of recommendations in the HPC memo are they all acceptable to the applicant would they comply with that absolutely okay and also in the prior resolution which this is reference there was a condition that the applicant would preserve and maintain the historic character of the existing garage wellhouse and windmill now is that something you're still prepared to do absolutely yes okay thank you course okay uh we'll Now open up for public comment anyone in the public who would like to speak please hit the raise hand button and we will move you over to this part of the meeting I don't see any hands no wait I don't okay oh wait they're back okay okay Candace McCoy and William broer would you like to speak You're muted sorry about that it's it's been a long night I know and and I hope we can keep this fairly um uh quick but uh I'd like to know first has the board received the the letters that were sent in opposition to this variance from the neighbors Miss McCoy uh the problem is I think as the board secretary I think advised you that the state Municipal land SL requires testimony so sure I believe letters a letter or letters were received but they would just go into the file for the application they're not going to be presented to the board that's very unfortunate because uh we have several neighbors who are in opposition uh I I live at 22 Parkside directly across the street from the proposed uh uh house and uh Mr Browder uh William Bill I'm in 45 Parts I drive next door canvas right and uh we both I sent my own letter and so i' appreciate it if that would be included and I'm testifying to it tonight Bill signed uh also and I signed also a second letter uh that had other neighbors but uh considering that we both sign that letter I would appreciate it if that letter be included as well and we will we will speak to it tonight um miss mccoin Mr Brer the letters will go into the the file for the application if you want to read your letter you can into the record that's fine anything that other neighbors if if you sign that letter uh I'm comfortable with you reading it into the record if it's a different letter then it's it's okay I I I know it's very late and it's it's my bedtime so I'm not going to read the letters but you can if you want to summarize it that's fine I will summarize and I think Bill will summarize I hope that we've captured everything that has been said uh I appreciate the that everybody's up so late um and by the way before I start uh I look forward to meeting the haaris haares I I I look forward to good neighborly relations uh uh it's just not under these circumstances uh the neighbors oppose the variance and uh first of all the application materials that we saw from April 22 are not currently how that lot looks and in fact the the picture that that was presented by Mr fer is not a current picture uh the the materials from April 22nd and tonight say that those trees will be retained uh they have been cut down the how the the lot it was clearcut uh an Alay of mature l trees that would have shielded the battlefield Park View uh that's gone a native cedar tree a very old tree that that uh softened the appearance uh of the utility Poes gone we protested it didn't matter uh this was very bothersome extremely bothersome because and this is all the neighbors who sent this letter including me um strive hard to maintain the environment and look and historic character of the battlefield Park particularly with environmental stewardship uh this proposed building is 4700 square feet all the other houses on Parkside with the exception of the historic drum drumthwacket uh uh pieces uh are around 2, to 2500 uh they're all low slung one story mid-century modern and we surround them with Greenery and we work very hard to keep our property consistent with the battlefield park because we love it so much that's why we're here this already is off on the wrong foot by cutting down the trees I would ask also on the 4700 square feet does that include the historic out buildings the pool house the garage uh the historic garage the reason I asked that is um the materials from April and reiterated at the historic preservation uh commission meeting which uh two neighbors uh attended uh the other one's not here tonight um uh stated that that historic building or the historic garage would be used as a studio so that's more square footage than the 4700 I'm unsure if you're counting it or not the problem my personal issue as I said I live across the street here in addition to the denuded lot at this point point there would be three parking places at the um uh Frontage where I am across the street those three parking places would be in addition to a two-car garage and the historic garage if they intend to use it as a garage instead of a studio I have to wonder why all the parking um the historic preservation commission as m Kim has pointed out asked them to provide a buffer um yeah in a few decades we'll have a buffer once it grows uh in the meantime this particular design is so out of character with the historic nature of the battlefield Park I wonder if it's possible to buffer it I appreciate that the HPC has asked that a buffer be put in but I'm going to be looking at these parking places and this hyper modern by the way I love this design I think it's beautiful I just don't think it belongs here um so the variance oh and by the way uh uh I believe Mr Bridger mentioned that in the previous go round when the the size of the building was reduced which the neighborhood said great they're reducing it good we're you know we didn't know that's why we were quiet all along but when the suggestion from this board was go to the neighbors and ask them if maybe they would sell you some adjacent slice of property and therefore you wouldn't need this variance and most particularly it wouldn't be so crowded with the size of this thing um uh I have spoken with these Neighbors at least two of them um Mr Kumar anyway um they were not approached Miss Carr Mr Kumar they they were not approached the assumption is that this thing can go forward and I don't think it's a good idea well in summary I I think the variance is sought two variances the pool is too close to uh the house catty corner to me and so a variance is needed for that and also a variance is needed for the top I call it the top area uh instead of 150 feet on the on park side it's it's currently 50 and uh I don't know what the law here is all I know is that the zoning regulations say a variance would be given if it's a hardship uh to not proceed uh I I'd like to say that I think this design the the applicants have created their own hardship uh you can't claim a hardship that you yourself have created 4700 square feet house plus two out buildings plus a large pool plus five parking areas uh all of it you saw the size how that lot looks this would be one thing if this we're going to be on a nice rectangle like the previous uh uh one we that we all set through um this is not a nice rectangle this is a like diamond thing with six different sides and uh it's elongated uh the way I I know this isn't a legal term but uh it's squished it's it's squished and and they have to put all of this these buildings on that squished space and they simply can't fit it in so what the result is is that I'm going to be looking at parking lot on a hyper modern building no buffer buffers that I can imagine would be able to to it all has to be up by that that front because they can't move it back it's too narrow uh several people and I'm myself have wondered is this going to be an office why five places for five cars at a at a in any event I do feel that this footprint is just too big and it's not that I and my neighbors are against having something there uh that would is consistent with the historic nature of the battlefield area and also is consistent with the rest of the neighborhood we would like that and and we would welcome the hararis but but not not this so thank you for listening thank you very much uh could I just say something um you can or you can wait until we're done with the public comment and then spawn okay I'll wait then okay thank you thank you Mr broer you want to say something okay what do I oh that's all right just talk down well uh uh I must say that uh I find some of these things quite problematic and and this house I'm afraid the way it's set up and designed is going to be a shock to the uh to the neighborhood and to the passers by and it's really rather far out of the spirit of of the battlefield in that area and uh I worry also about the Precedence of uh of uh giv these small uh of these small uh changes in the regulations uh is opening wedge for much much more later on as we my my wife has a small house in Denmark and there has been this uh drama with small changes in the regulations uh for many many years and it's been the area has been transformed from very bolic portion of nearby Shore into a a forest of gray concrete and of course that's not our our problem here but it's a warning it's a warning thank you very much thank you uh Claudia are there any other neighbors who like to speak I don't see any other hands um okay will close the um i' just like to say before you close that um by right you could build up to a 6500 SQ foot house on this lot and it could be a twostory or 35 foot high house and the the applicants are being very sensitive to the site and to the adjacent sites by making this building only 16 feet high um well below what they could do and um with the the two historic buildings they're at about 4,800 square feet um so they could add almost another 2,000 square feet to that please don't yeah please God okay I'm going to I'm closing the public comment so thank you very much for your comments uh we go back to the applicants now if you have if you have any other comments you'd like to make Jeff uh can you respond at all to the buffering uh points that were brought up um well and we talked to that with HPC and and we're going to present a landscape design that will buffer the parking um and and that is the intent to the applicant okay uh applicants any other comments you'd like to make before we go to Executive session um Mr shriber do you want the applicant to address Mr bridger's comment that they should advise whether they have tried to obtain any property or whether it is not feasible to do so given the size of the adjacent Lots thank you so much Miss Casey Mr Bridger um so I would like to share a slide um if possible please this is not the first time this board is seeing this slide but since the topic came up um so this is our site um as we see the the Blue Line basically are the borders of our what we have and uh we have two properties on each side again this was present Ed prior um to in front of this board the one to the right cannot be acquired because it's a historic structure so we did look into that uh with an attorney the previous time and the one Mr Kumar's house cannot be acquired because by us acquiring their lot they will be deficient and then they would need a variance so this topic I just wanted to bring this slide up that this topic has been discussed before we have pursued it and to Mr flesher's point we have done anything and everything in our power Miss Cadence I believe I did mention this to you in the HPC meeting as well to lower the size um stay with one story building um we care about the historic nature of the area um with respect to the trees some of what some of what you've explained today is news to me um but we had a previous design that was approved by all appropriate commissions and boardings and with that previous design we um some trees unfortunately were cut it doesn't mean that it's going to be permanent everyone knows that um um you know with every tree that's cut something needs to be we need to replace those and we will work with HPC as it was mentioned earlier um so we are just happy to say that we think this design the smaller size the smaller in the previous design we also had two sto at least part of the house had two stories above the garage and uh we eliminated that to also be more visually appealing um and um I don't know if I've covered it all and no we do not intend to have five cars or five garages or any of that the garage the existing garage is not going to be used used as a garage ever that's what Jeff mentioned earlier that the driveway to that garage will be completely eliminated so there will be no access for cars we have two cars and we intend to keep them at two um we do however um like to be able to drop off and pick up our elderly parents from our front door uh when need when when it's needed so um that's that was the intent of that little area in front of uh in front of our main door uh as opposed to walking from the side to uh the front door that was the intent of that design some of us who are aging um myself included my husband with two back surgeries we know that being able to not being able to come directly to your front door um and dropping off or picking up uh can be challenging and we were mindful of that that's the intent so miss Hai the slide you just showed could you provide a copy of that to the board secretary absolutely yes all righty and we'll we'll just call that exhibit a to if you could I will I will send that as an email tonight but again you know this is this should be part of the previous files of this Lo understand I understand but this way it'll be part of this record too happy to do so thank you okay thank you very much we will now go into executive session uh look for comments questions motion uh any comments Mr chairman there's a hand by um on the corner on the left uh public session is over so you know we're in executive session now comments sure yeah I mean I I think the frontage Varian is is straightforward I I'm support that and then the the pool variance is is really kind of the Oddity of the lot um you know if they uh address the HPC concerns regarding you know um appropriate screening and Landscaping and um you know the other HPC recommendations uh I I would support this good thank you other comments otion no no questions motion I I'll move to approve it thank you and Bernice that would be then subject to the applicant complying with the HPC recommendations and that they will also uh retain and maintain um the historic character of the three existing historic structures on the properties that correct okay is there a second I'll second Stein thank you George any other comments before we vote okay clar will take a rooll Miss Chen yes Mr Floyd yes Mr Shriver yes Mr Stein yes Miss Donna yes thank you okay that's been approved thank you very much thank you so much thank you so much everyone thank you um before we adjourn I do last meeting we did talk about trying to get together and we were going to forward Steve Cohen any suggestions for topics that we would like to have clarified for us I urge you you uh if you haven't done so that you might do so now and forward comments to questions to him and then we will schedule the meeting otherwise Eric Karen anything else I think we're done for the night no nothing else meeting's adjourned thank you good night good night you good night