##VIDEO ID:dZUSGOxiCeI## the next is our budget discussion uh no action is requested from the board um I'm going to hand this over to Dr Thomas thank you chair France board of directors and I'm going to see if one of our members of the team can get that pulled up there hopefully it'll get controlled from this remote up here we had it going earlier before we had to restart so um uh so as we get ready to have this um presentation and discussion um with the board just want to preface a few things um I know that uh uh as a result of the the levy not passing we are facing a very different Financial reality and I want to be very clear with the board as well as with our community that um the types of discussions and decisions that we're going to have to make by no means is this retaliatory for our communities taking a position on how they would or would not support the Levy I've seen some emails coming in um asserting some of that and I just want to really set the record straight with our community we appreciate the Democratic process of our voters going to the polls and our community has spoken and we respect that decision and we are going to move forward appropriately um in um spite of that decision being no we're going to have to make some um different uh decisions right now and we've been saying that um all the way throughout that Levy campaign so this shouldn't be anything new for our community or coming out of left field as to why we're doing this uh I think we're very clear um from day one um uh as to the rights that our families and Community had to vote Yes order to vote no and if we voted yes what we would have to do and if we voted no what we would have to do so we're at this point and um I will also share that um making reductions in the neighborhood of $4 to5 million is not going to be an easy um reduction uh given the fact that we've made some significant reductions to date um we don't have a lot of excess that's um in our current budget um certainly there are some things that we can address um that um would be more loow hanging fruit if you will but a majority of the conversations that we're going to have are going to be very impactful and as I've stated we will strive to do our best to ensure that the reductions that we make are as far away from the classroom as we possibly can but I also want to be very real with our community we're not going to make $4 to5 million reductions without having any impacts it's going to be felt um and but again we will now have to try to mitigate whether it's something impactful to the classroom or impactful to our staff Etc it's going to be felt um and we are committed to upholding the Integrity of everyone involved and we know that these are going to be tough decisions and there's going to be a lot of emotion um behind a lot of these conver Sation and decisions um there's no good decision and you've heard me say that we're choosing between what's good for students and what's good for students and that's a real tough place to be um and again there are probably some things that we can address that um are going to be easier than some others um but nonetheless uh that this is something that as an administrative team we have been um working through um for many many months because we've had some of these conversations all throughout the levy campaign um and we'll eventually get to a slide that talks about the fact that these were the types of conversations that we were going to have to have this wasn't an exhaustive list that we published during the campaign um and so there are going to be some things that are on that list and then there going to be some things that are not on that list and everything in between um we are committed to being open to having conversations we're not reserving any sacredness about any one particular program because as this community can probably imagine we are being petitioned by many throughout our community for the thing that that family or that student or that Community member loves we understand you have to make reductions but not that right and so the not that times the thousands that exist out there we would eventually not cut anything if that were the case right but we're not in that space and so we are going to be making reductions that some in our community are going to say why would you make that reduction and unfortunately it's because we have to make some of these reductions cuz if everything was set as to not that we wouldn't be making any reductions and that's not going to fix our issue so um so that is something that we're committed to to to doing as well um we've been having a lot of conversations internally and externally throughout the process and as you can suspect there's a lot of chatter that's happening out there um whether it's information that we've shared whether it's speculations that in individual staff or students or people in our community are having and that then gets taken as the gospel that this was going to occur and there's just a lot of that happening we'll do our best to try to you know control that chatter Mill and that rumor mill it's not going to go away so I just encourage our community to stay AB breast to the conversations that we'll be um having here um at various board sessions as well as uh regularly trying to post through our budget um website um the types of kind of directional supports that we get along the way and just as a reminder the final budget that we will bring to the board will be in June but there will be some checkpoints along the way that we are just kind of seeking um directional support to say yes Michael and team this makes sense continue to plan uh accordingly or you know what this is something that we would like you to revisit visit or we would like you to consider exploring this area instead so those are some of those iterative processes um and I've shared with our community on a couple of email responses and I think I shared this in my Friday's five last week with staff is that when we're having conversations about a variety of different topics of reductions some of those reduction uh some of those conversations will advance as recommendations to the board that the board would take under consideration some of those will never see the light of day but we are committed to having a conversation and a conversation and the root of that is Comet say which is to solve or to change together and that's something that we're committed to trying to do to have those conversations so that we're kind of doing a 360 and understanding you know the true impacts sometimes it looks very obvious but then there might be some second third or effects that we just have not foreseen or through further conversation with the board with our staff with our community we learned some things and say hey that actually is going to be more costly or that actually really makes sense so let's go forward with that so so just want to set that context with our Comm our community um as we move forward and let's see if this works now all right um and in some of these slides uh uh the the board and our community has seen but we're trying to do kind of a cyclical approach kind of revisit a few things and then introduce new Concepts as well kind of like some of our curriculum um so we've been utilizing our fund balance um for uh bringing additional revenue streams because our enrollment has been declining or flat at best for many years and so trying to find ways to address some of those uh financial shortfalls and stay competitive in terms of what we've been offering for many many years um has been a pattern in in our district and this is a pattern that we intend to um change as we move forward because we really need to shore this up to find ways to bring uh great structural balance um to to the budget um just as past or for this current school year that we we are um in um we've uh made about $3.2 million in reductions and brought about $957,000 um from fund balance to bring a balanced budget um for this current school year and and again it's the the reductions that we made this year are are several so in in kind of broad categories and I won't read it all but we've made about 2 and a quar in administrative reductions um to include actual administrators as well as administrative costs um so that's what we that went into that 3.2 um reduction um when we look at some of our instructional aspect um we reduced some of our um sections as well as a variety of some of our Specialists um throughout the district we've also um reduced other core um sections um based upon our enrollment and so looking at our class sizes Etc so we've managed to that and allowed um that to kind of organically uh manage itself kind of like natural attrition and so we've capitalized on that we've um reduced our mcaps coordinator position and merged administrative roles um at the secondary level as well as through natural attrition of a retirement um we um did not backfill one of our Middle School positions as well so we've had some cost containments and and reductions in administrative cost this year in that area some of that in instructional support um uh We've um eliminated some of our teachers on special assignment many of these teachers are teachers who are going to be um facilitating um that professional development aspect of improving the craft of many of um their colleagues throughout the district some of that has been reduced um so we're compromizing the quality of uh educational training and support um to many of our teachers throughout the district this year um our testing facilitators we've reassigned some of those duties and added that to the plates of some other staff this also has been an ongoing um pattern that we've just continued to add to other positions versus truly stopping certain functions and that might be something that we're going to have to consider because as we continue to fill the plate we are burning staff um and they're just saying I can't manage the level of load that's coming with some of the um functions um our Pac and some miscellaneous um software uh titles that we've um already uh reduced from this year so again some of the emails that we've been getting some of those um cuts have been realized this year already um and then we'll continue to look for additional as we move forward and then lastly we've made some um reductions in our custodial um staff um to just a little over 100 thou 130,000 so about $3.29 million uh in a a variety of cuts were realized this year um and just to reiterate um you know where the board approves some of these cuts um were the ones that I just mentioned um about some of the two administrative positions um as well as how we've combined and merged other FTE um to save overall Administration costs and administrative overhead um we also added about 85 increased fees to generate about $85,000 in revenue for this current school year as well now as we move forward this is a slide that many in our community have seen over and over again this is not exhaustive and these are the types of conversations that we've committed to saying that we are going to have again forecasting the fact that we're going to have to cut four to5 million um is not a small nickel and dime exercise these are deep impactful reviews that we're going to have to consider to get that size of reduction um in and already uh fairly lean budget and I'll just remind folks that we are striving to build um a reduction around the 5 million giving ourself about a $1 million buffer that might be a little excessive but we'd rather um plan conservatively so that if for unforeseen reasons we have to make additional uh reductions we won't be doing that at the 11th hour so we if we could scale back and not have to move forward that would be a better thing to for us to be able to do we're building in some of that buffer but again to reach that $4 million Mark at the low end um that's a very impactful um number that we're going to have to try to to to find um $4 million and uh and so some of these um uh items here um are things that we have begun already moving forward our last conversation with you all a few weeks ago was um unless we were told otherwise we were going to continue down this path to be costing a lot of this out now there will be some um immediate reductions that we would be recommending there will be some mid midterm reductions that we'll be re recommending and there will be some longer term reductions that we're also going to have to have discussions about um some of that immediate aspect are going to be the things that we know as we shared a couple of weeks ago are going to be predicated on forecasting um uh uh enrollment based upon the amount of sections that we'll be able to offer so some of the conversation that we had earlier tonight about elective opportunities we know that we're going to have to find ways to scale some of those electives differently based upon historical enrollment and maybe some of those electos will not U be able to be offered moving forward so we've looked at that because knowing that our um registration at the secondary level begins I believe around January 13th so this is why we're asking you know this board um to um consider uh moving forward with some directional guidance on that so that we can go ready um to print our registration manuals and not have a messy registration process and having to undo things after the fact that students have already chosen so we'd rather scale it back and um versus having folks registered and then reworking everyone's um registration and then you got them the mental fatigue of students to say well why didn't you just wait you know and and before you made us get our hopes up and so we want to make sure that we mitigate that and uh address those uh our realignments and and reductions now in in ahead of registration and then again the longer term would be some of the conversations around sales of buildings or building closures Etc it's going to take some time um by mde rule as well as just thorough engagement um so that's longer term conversations uh that we've got ample time um so our Focus conversation tonight I'll be talking about a variety of different things but I'll narrow in on the more immediate conversation that I would like our board to um consider and uh and the plan at this point is then to come back in about a week um for that directional support to say given what we've shared with you your time to reflect and ask questions um so that we can be ready to open up registration in a very efficient way and with the um uh reductions already kind of started that we know we had some latitude to address um so um the first couple here are going to be around that immediate frame and so right now we are looking at ways that we can address the element or the um um the uh Staffing ratios and discussion caps and increasing um that discussion cap and targets by two um and again allowing um the natural tide of enrollment based upon where we've been um EB and flow to kind of naturally rise some areas will rise uh While others might still remain flat it all depends on how that enrollment is dispersed or distributed throughout the district but that gives us some latitude to address um how we could uh manage enrollment and find um cost savings there um also our middle school and high school um uh cap on minimum class sizes a discussion that we just had a few minutes ago so as we um look at some of our um courses and some uh of the enrollment that's currently there and what we may project on where student enrollment may go in terms of choice we have the ability to um save uh resources there and and allow for um a restricted uh class set of of uh uh offerings for our kids based upon where we anticipate our enrollment will be and uh with some of those uh class siiz caps if we're below that or I'm sorry class siiz minimums if we're below that those are the types of things that we would um look at um potentially pulling offline or delaying um based upon that enrollment um we are also looking at um the the space within special education and the uh the case load ratio similar to our class- siiz targets we have case load targets as well and based upon um the needs of our students um uh as well as our um minutes of service and demand um for support that our students have um we've analyzed that to determine that we have um some erir or some room uh margin uh there so that we can address ways that we can find cost savings within special education but still honoring the due process and meeting the needs of the IEPs of all of our students and still um remain very competitive compared to where some of our neighboring ratios are at significantly higher than we currently are and where we would even um allow kind of some some level of growth to occur um with special education um because it's um a space that is kind of an unknown and we are seeing uh significant surges all throughout the state of Minnesota around Special Ed this is something that we'll closely watch um always has been but again Michelle and her team are working judiciously to watch and monitor those numbers there um we also have the same with regards to some of our parah um case load increases um where we have still the ability to have um that onetoone support as necessary as well as um the uh par pro-rated support based upon the needs of our students um all throughout our special education um case loads throughout the district so that is another area where we are able to find some cost containments there um by adjusting some of those thresholds um the other conversation that uh we are um continually um um working towards is moving mcaps uh from the Lakeville area back to the high school proper um there's a variety of different spaces in the high school that we are looking at um and again it would make sense in a couple of different ways but we'll we will work with the administration there to find the best fit for where um we would locate uh that program uh we have lease Aid that um is a lease Levy that's paying for a lot of our lease aid but there are some aspects of that lease that is not reimbursable by The Levy and so our property taxes some of the maintenance fees Etc um custodial costs um those are all built in there to to the tune of about 145 un reimbursable from that um uh lease Levy so we would be able to find cost savings there um and then we're also running a shuttle for students who would need it and we would no longer need to run that shuttle between um the high school and mcaps so we'll be able to um Identify some of that Transportation savings there and then based upon the enrollment as we talked about with some of the other um uh secondary conversations uh based on enrollment um we would continually review any of the Staffing adjustments that may or may not need to be made as well as have conversations with our staff to say okay is this pathway um a high enough demand that we can justify the cost of offering all the pathways or is that something that we're also going to have to evaluate um so again we start uh registration for maps um I believe later on this week and we'll just continue to watch that enrollment um aspect um keep in mind that um Farmington as a partner is also going through the same type of uh significant budget uh reductions that we are going through um and I know that uh Jason and his team are going to be engaging in a very parallel conversation with their board um but part of their campaign um conversations to their Community were if it isn't successful in um passing that the likelihood of sponsoring tuition to Maps is not very likely but again those decisions would have to be made at the local Farmington level um we are um planning for our own registration and then pending what happens with Farmington um if a Farmington student would still like to continue perhaps maybe they're going to be a senior next year and they really want to find uh uh complete that uh that would be a decision that that family would have to make to um potentially open enroll completely as a plsas plsas student and then the family could continue to bring them to um our district and we would continually happily serve them um as a plsas open enroll student to finish out that mcaps pathway and I know those are conversations that the team is having right now with some of our um out of District families um an area that we are reviewing right now uh specifically around the return on investment and is this the best model of instructional support for students is our um our Laker online um and right now as we're able to assess the performance of how our students are doing this is an area that we highly question whether or not this is the appropriate way to meet the needs of our students um we know that there's a demand to be online but we want to make sure that as we're meeting that demand that there's actually um learning progressions occurring in predictable ways that we would like to see for our students and we're just not realizing that um with our current Laker online model and so that is an area that we believe that we could have some different conversations with our families knowing that they're there for a specific reason and leaving maybe that traditional Comprehensive High School approach in that brick and mortar approach but um would it be worth exploring for example some of the alc opportunities for our students as well so those are some of the conversations that we're going to have to have to ensure that our students are actually engaged effectively and and excelling academically even in the midst of some of the challenges that maybe some of our students are facing who are electing these different non-traditional U models of instruction that we still want to ensure that they are being successful so um that is an area that we anticipate that we could find some um savings um by restructuring um how we would support those students and then um the caveat that I have here excuse me um again this was not something that was quote unquote on the list but just I want the board to take under consideration um as we forecast um the testing um cut scores and where we've lowered some of that to generate enough enrollment in our Sage program um so that we could um um have a a man a a plausible class with some of the adjustments to the targets and discussion caps there would be an a unintended consequence and this is a good example and this is why I wanted to bring this forward just more for open conversation um um that this um section would likely Fall pretty low um in terms of the potential enrollment and so the question is is that something that we would be able to continue is it something that we should be able to continue um is that where we would want to put resources or would we potentially save um resources there because of um the enrollment uh uh as we look at um that cap adjustment as well so again like you uh we would consider uh High School electives or courses if the demand isn't there if the enrollment isn't there is that something that we need to take under consideration um and so we also know that this is a very you know uh prized type of experience for kids and this is where it gets challenging because the types of conversations that we're having isn't to necessarily you know highly recommend that we eliminate third grade Sage but we wanted to be open with the board and with our community that as a result of some of these other conversations that we're having we anticipate this would be a fairly small small cohort and so just want to put that on the table for some um consideration um I think we have time to explore this this isn't one that um would be in that immediate but it is one of those areas that I put a asterisk there for you all to just have a placeholder there that might be something that we're going to have to take a look at okay um we also have some opportunities around some of our technology that we feel um would be uh some something that we could take on uh and make some of those um uh recommendations for more immediate um impa uh reductions uh and that would be around our iPads in Elementary uh and then um looking at our staff desktop computer savings and then lastly when we look at qualtrix qualtrix is the infrastructure behind our public facing Finance dashboard it's a very costly contract and so we are looking at multiple external contracts that we have to find out if that is an area that we would be able to um find some cost savings so between qualtrix as well as educ climber which is kind of like our student Data Warehouse on a variety of performance measures for our kids um they total just around $50,000 for us as as as a district but we are that is an area that we would look to explore of reducing and perhaps merging on under a larger umbrella policy if you will with another um IT solutions partner that would be able to give us some significantly discounted rates because we have multiple um programs versus five different consultant it consultant providers maybe just one and we can um uh work to scale and have better agreements in in contracts um the you know and again the question would be also do we replace the finance dashboard um this is something that I think our community has really grown to appreciate it's something that a lot of um folks in our community do do access um and it certainly is something that you know with qual Trex we could just turn off or we find other solutions that we could offer that and perhaps it's not as robust as it is maybe we have the skinny that back again something that we would have to explore but we wanted to just put those two as examples and we're looking at some other um titles as well um for example our talent Ed and some other um aspects that we um currently have um IT solutions for um uh we know that um some parent providers if we do an umbrella approach would probably be able to get us a much more competitive rate um compared to what we are paying with a proprietary program through um an individual provider um we anticipate uh right now with our qm we did a q comp presentation every year um with the board and if you recall um we have some of our Q comp um and investment in professional development for our staff and developing our staff to be highly uh effective and talented um but we are also spending more than what we get re uh reimbursed by our qm grant and so what you see here is pulling that back to what's only reimbursable to the qm Grant and so we have an a potential uh savings there um and then then uh with the calendar conversation that we just U had with you all we have those two less days built into the calendar and you can see a couple of different um cost savings there as a result of having two full days versus these partial days um that were reduced and so we do realize I think to Vice chair uh bullion's question it's a both end here's the financial aspect as well as what we shared in terms of being responsive to our parent feedback and the board feedback to find ways to be less disruptive and so you see that before you hear this image as well um and then lastly um is is one aspect um is is the uh pool um at Twin Oaks and uh we do have quite a sizable um uh investment to uh do some significant maintenance and upkeep to that pool in the very near future um uh tolling um over a million dollars um and um that is something that uh uh if we keep the pool open that ultimately you know from a safety standpoint and um facilities use standpoint we would have to address and so not moving forward that um right now and pulling that pool offline would allow us to at least delay shift some of that ltfm to some other key projects that are uh uh pressing right now um and again um I want to be very open that we know that this is a very um heavily used space and uh and and really respect the Partnerships that we've had with a variety of folks in our community um excuse me to be able to um facilitate a lot of activity and supports for our students in swimming lessons as well as um swimming Sports Etc and this is this is a challenge for us and these are those tough decisions where we're choosing kind of what's good and what's good um there's value in this and we also have some significant financial realities that we don't know if it's smart for us to really consider at this point and so that may be something that uh we would easily be able to move forward with for next fall um but uh definitely would be open for longer term conversations and continue to explore that based on some of the conversation that you heard earlier this evening through public comment as well so um so those would be the examples namely the class-size targets the elective um restrictions um some of the uh sped case load aspects and some of the um closer components of Q comp and other things of that nature that we anticipate as an administrative team that we think would be very plausible for us to consider for next fall um and I would say for our registration purposes namely the class- siiz targets and discussion caps and elective options those are things that we definitely need to make sure that we readdress um in a very very timely manner because we go live like I said with registration um manuals um uh January 13th I believe and SO waiting until January which I think would actually fall on that date would be literally the day of registration beginning and then we're making decisions you know at the 11th hour and pulling the rug under you know while uh a registration is occurring so we would definitely like to um um have you all um consider those um as um initial conversations that we would move forward with as we continue to um plan for um our January registration and that initial reduction um mode and then come January we would be starting to move more into some of the um U midterm conversations with the board um and that would be the new board at that point um around some of the other Cost Containment areas there are uh you know right now we're looking well let me just go into a couple let me just go into a couple of them so that's all that we would have some this is all that we would have some conversation with the board about um for next week the next series of of slides these are conversations that are more of that midterm and long-term and I just want to um keep the board abust as well as our community abust on the types of conversations that we're having that when people are saying well what does that midterm look like Michael uh we want to give just some example examples of some of that as well so uh again we have some time to work through this um as we move more into that budget planning you know kind of the heart of budget planning um right now we're going through our organizational chart and and analyzing for efficiencies are there various positions um all throughout the district that we can um look at differently so that we can address um the needs of students and staff but find ways that we can make additional R reductions we we know that some of these reductions um would also be um assessing what's happening here at the central office too but that means lack of support that would continually go forward you know with our um uh School sites as well so there's there's there's paybacks for for that as well um but again those are some of the things that we're currently assessing right now um facilities changes and looking at usage fees again going back to can we generate some moderate amount of of Revenue um based upon fees and I know this might seem kind of nickeling and diming but folks when we're trying to find 4 million everything is open uh you know 10,000 here and 10,000 there and 10,000 there is $30,000 so we we need to look at various ways that we might be able to offset some of that revenue and that might come by way of some of those usage fees um other conversations that have been part of um our uh campaign um to date is the conversation around our Spanish imersion um we know that um as kids at the elementary are in Spanish imersion it's highly desirable and there's a uh there's been a push to really have a more robust K12 experience particularly at the middle and high school and we have been um building towards that over the years and we've had our share of hiccups and bumps along the road but nonetheless we've demonstrated some level of commitment and then the question is you know can we truly afford you know the K12 experience for Spanish Immersion at this time or do we focus our efforts around um the elementary component and then move the secondary more into your language um elective options and offer higher level of of electives because kids are coming out um more prepared to speak at higher levels specifically with Spanish I would say a parallel conversation to this um that some of our our secondary staff uh Administration are having is we could say the same with other world languages such as German and French who have seen you know a very small numbers over the years comparatively to a Spanish and is that something that we need to look at as well again these are just exploratory open conversations I want to be very real with our board and our community these are what we mean when we're looking at every stone and every leaf um not to say that this will all come to fruition and trust me you've seen the campaign that I've seen um from our community about their Um passion and love for the the immersion program and I and I don't doubt that I don't question uh the impact that it's had having for some of our students um but again this is a conversation that we have some time to be able to have and explore um we're not saying that it has to happen by January and then middle school activities that we discussed I think a couple of weeks ago with the board already I won't um reiterate that and shifting some of that to Community Education um and then other potential reductions that we have um some time to kind of begin to explore field trips as a large umbrella has been a big conversation that we've been having and as you heard tonight wolfridge is an example of an experiential learning SL field trip I mean it's categorized on a variety of different fronts we're not specifically um advocating that that be the thing that gets reduced because Al also what we do know is that some programs in our district um are sponsored through grant funding or categorical funding so we could reduce it all day long and it doesn't do anything to our bottom line and so those are some of the conversations that we are having um about like you know the History Museum ski um trips uh you know Science Museum Etc are those the types of things that um we need to start scaling back um and saving bus costs because what we're finding with our bus contract is field trips are excessively high and that's where we're racking up a lot of unanticipated expenses because the um um extracurricular routes have gone up significantly um uh again relooking at those early release days um we do know that that would come with some statute challenges particularly where react goes or doesn't go um but again it's a conversation that we're having um band lessons walking distance uh districtwide Transportation contract um routes um vendor you know Etc um there's a variety of things that we are having conversations about and exploring and again we're not wedded to these but these are the things that we must cost out and try to understand um and explore so that when we are coming back to the board with some recommendations we've done our due diligence to really kind of look at every nook and cranny that we can um to address ways that we can find some M midterm um reductions and then lastly as we've talked about some of those longer terms and these are things that would likely be around that 26 27 school year is around um some uh building closures Building Sales Etc um but we've got ample time to have that discussion but just want to put that on on the radar of our community and of our board and then that's kind of like that iterative process of that immediate midterm and long-term so people have a better understanding of the types of things that would fall under such categories um so with that um I will turn it back to you chair France and our um administrative TEAM stands ready for um questions and conversation okay um the only thing that I had I remember we had asked to this is um the impacts and considerations be applied consistently across you know the negative impacts and all that so we understand what's being lost cuz some of these things are still pretty high level and I know that some of the questions and concerns that have already been brought up by other board members would do touch on that so yeah and we put some of those that we could identify fairly confidently in in this in this conversation okay um I think there's a few that we've talked about that aren't here that would probably need to be in writing but anyways I'm going to open it up to the board for questions um and remember these are uh Discovery and exploratory questions we're not making decisions tonight um I'll start with a question um last year in February is when we signed the resolution for the reduction of um programs Andor staff so and that is what resulted in our first your first um you know couple slides of this presentation where we did reduce teaching sections and and made the decisions that we made starting in February so why can you help me understand why a large majority of these reductions need to be made in one week versus giving us some time to really evaluate like chair France said what what are the ongoing costs what are you know the tales that go with the program that's kind of not where I just wanted it all consistently I think we've already talked about why some of the immediate decisions need to be made but I want to add I guess I'm not clear from what was stated because we're doing something that was totally different than what we've done in the past so I'm trying to understand that um it's something that I've been asked by the community so if you could share and I think I would really like to know going into next week Wednesday's meeting what from this very specific speically will we be asked to approved thank thank you uh direct director Atkinson so the the pieces for us that are really pertinent for us to move forward with registration is excuse me is our class siiz targets and elective um uh re uh our elective schedules in offerings that's the thing that we really need um that directional excuse me that directional support from the board um as we get ready to go into print because we want to make sure that we're printing the appropriate registration guide and not having things in there that will ultimately be cut um and then having kids register and then we're going to say oh by the way sorry we're going to unregister you from that because we're cutting that now um so we wanted to make those determinations um we felt that was the best student friendly approach to address that everything else I think we've got time as we go into budget kind of development proper um to be able to to um have those discussions as we go forward but as I stated earlier tonight as I started the conversation the the big pieces um are around that registration component namely um class siiz targets and discussion caps and electives those are the things that we want to get buttoned up so that we can launch uh uh a a better kind of efficient uh registration process so just to clarify the Spanish Immersion though would be consider considered an elective is that correct the Spanish Immersion is not considered an elective it's actually a an academic program pathway um that may or may not uh be impacted based upon the discussion caps and enrollment and so that would be something that we would have discussions with um just like any other course okay and and the Spanish imersion is that immediate uh it it it it all depends I mean if yeah so so again the the Spanish Immersion I think we've got some time to have some conversation about that I think what will drive that conversation is going to be more tied back to the registration process and to see where that demand um lies can I just add a point of clarification at the middle school level specifically um as we look at that particular slide where we talk about the FTE reduction at the middle school specifically um as we look at class size there is not the variation and we spoke about this or I spoke about this at the board meeting back in October when we were looking at class size there's greater variation at the high school level because of the range of courses that variation does not exist to the same extent at the middle school level so if we are looking to more efficiently staff one of the conversations that I've been involved with the middle school administrative team is to look at in in uh principal kusek has been engaged in this for some time now because this was a topic of conversation uh pending a the outcome of the referendum and looking at courses or looking at middle school schedules six period day schedules in neighboring districts and we continue to have uh a much more robust elective offering sequence of courses and that is uncommon some quite quite uncommon among our neighboring districts with six period days in most cases they are offering a very prescriptive you receive um exposure to elective offerings a wheel we call it in sixth grade and then you continue to have a prescriptive continuation of those wheel courses one in seventh or in eighth so concrete example currently we offer art for all students I'm just naming that for uh to illustrate a point um then we offer in seventh and eighth grade students Choice um they can choose to continue and take multiple courses in art in seventh and eighth grade or choose a different path uh what's most common and most efficient in terms of Staffing is to actually prescribe that you either get an additional art course in seventh grade or one in eighth grade and then teched for example similarly get everybody gets it in sixth grade and then you either get one in seventh or in eighth that's the most efficient way to schedule and that's how we would potentially realize the FTE reduction so that is something that we would ultimately need to make decision around so that our registration guide reflects that different than our registration guide reflected this year's list of courses so that's a distinction that I wanted to make sure is clearly understood that we are looking for in the time for registration process and also there is um with regard to the World Language or the Spanish Immersion experience there are some additional courses that currently are requirements um call for our students to get get specifically a online experience so that they can maintain the the World Language Spanish as well as their social studies requirement in sixth grade the wheel uh of requirs includes an online Health elective or health course that they must take online and in eighth grade it includes a additional quarter course in physical education the middle school would consider um changing that put potentially in order to meet this criteria of 3 FTE if they do not do that it would potentially not result in the same amount of savings in FTE so I just wanted to I know that's a lot of further detail but paint the picture for what we are looking at potentially at the middle school and then the high school it's about all of those electives that we were talking about earlier tonight streamlining and again that variation um in n9th and 10th grade our es the schedule is fairly relatively set for students and we have greater higher class sizes in those but as we start to get into the Junior and senior courses we have that increased variation that results in the increased uh number of courses that are significantly lower and we're going to have to tighten that up with this 8 FTE so can I I'm sorry go ahead I was just going to say thanks for illustrating that for us that explains the the situation really well that's what I was going to say is the trickle down effect once we decide on the FTE then there's things that have to happen right after that that then go into an immediate course selection that will be corresponding with our first board meeting in January so we don't have time in January to make that decision we need to give the direction now uh but I understand that and and correct me if I'm wrong because I want to make this clear C in that immediate in our slides and what was talked about in the study session is these immediate discussion points of those FTE as well as a couple of the other immediate ones with regards to classes as well as the sped ratios that has to be done as the sped ratios too have to be done as soon as possible with the Paras they do not no okay okay that's what I well I was wondering CU that's class sizes with Paras too okay we still have time we have time on that the immediacy is the registration process okay at the secondary level most specifically and then at the elementary level also we'll be looking at the adjustment of class sizes as student enrollment comes in at the kindergarten level registration has begun correct MH yeah so just to clarify it's really just this one slide that we're looking at and the other the thing that I can got thank you for the um um additional information that makes sense the thing that I was looking at was where it says including potential reduction Spanish Immersion so um I guess my question is is wouldn't this happen after the um how do you say after you see what type of level of interest you have in these courses I mean I understand I understand from our teaching and learning committee as well the the explanation of this wheel of offerings I get that um but again wouldn't all the these decisions sort of have to be made based on student interest yeah the registration would drive specifically the uh Spanish Immersion for example or in the high school case the mcaps pathways that would be registration driven and then it would we would determine uh what the reductions in those particular areas would would would be able to be made and if they aren't able to be made there they're going to be made elsewhere in our course selections and that that tightening of um sections that I was referring to earlier that makes sense thank you Dr ainson member of the board if I can add for clarification these are our estimates that we are projecting that we'll be able to reduce um as we go through this iterative process that Dr Thomas has explained we'll we'll have a better number of how many these actually result in as we get towards the February March time frame um but this is us looking at current enrollments current interest seeing what we we are projecting this would be so to your point we will know more about this in February and March on the actual specifics of what the reductions would look like to that end pardon me uh on that slide when we talk elementary so how do we know then because registration hasn't happened yet how do we how do we get to these numbers the six and the four specifically I know you I know you have to make some um maybe assumptions isn't the right word but how do you get to these numbers when we don't know yet um director Olstead members of the board um we make assumptions by Rolling our enrollments and then doing an average of our kindergartens and then increasing the discussion caps and targets by two and then going through the exercise of what we would have for sections if those numbers were to be true um and make make those as assumptions again those numbers change all throughout the year um and throughout the summer and we do still plan to have the um to request in the budgeting process to set aside a assigned fund balance so that we can make those adjustments as the summer goes um because Elementary specifically is the very difficult because those numbers change quick quite frequently and that's why we watch it every week throughout the summer but this is based off of a Assumption of our current enrollment rolling up a year and making an assumption for kindergarten thank you um I did you do have a question I do have a um my question is on this um Slide the staff model changes Slide the elementary is listed as um increasing the class targets discussion cap by two um we're talking about the important what what you're looking for immediate direction to be on class siiz targets is that just in the elementary school because I don't see um class size oh middle school cap on minimum okay so for the elementary you said increasing by two middle school did you have like a number you know I'm just curious because you gave an example for elementary increasing by two um what are we looking at for middle and high school and the reason why I'm asking is because um it is my assumption please correct me if I'm wrong wrong that um class sizes are maybe more important at the elementary smaller class sizes may be seen as more important at the elementary level than Middle and High um again that is my assumption it might not be correct if you can speak to that um I I think first of all I'll um speak to the what I'll call complexity of the secondary to boil it down to a number and I think I we tried to articulate that back in October when we were talking about class size you can look at it in courses that all students take um for example English n just pick that out um and when you have all of your students that have to take that course and you can be efficient you can be most efficient um with that because you have a number of sections to distribute them to um when you start to get into courses that have just a few sections of it it becomes not as efficient of an exercise so the range um is great and if you recall I think I'm I'm not going to possibly accurately reflect the October presentation but I think the range was in the low 20s to high 30s um when we talked about those other courses and uh so boiling it down to a number yes I think 25 to 34 with outliers is what we had communicated thank you uh director Herman showing me that presentation um but we had also content areas that were different so we had social studies and science looking different uh and English looking different so um boiling it down to a number that we have as a class-size Target and discussion cap at a grade level um becomes a much more complicated exercise thank you I appreciate and and you're helping jog my memory I do remember that conversation um is it is it fair to say or or um that this would be the recommendation based on okay director bullan if I may add um to your first question in in that series The the Staffing model is pretty similar across all districts where the lower grade levels have the low class sizes and then you as you go through the grades they're they increase but it increased to all of our classes no matter if it's elementary middle or high school will be felt um and the High School courses to the complexity of it some of them have smaller sizes because of the course in the curriculum or the lab or something like that so I do want to put it out there that um I think increasing cap class sizes in all the levels have has a very similar felt impact um yes the the the ratios may be a little bit different based off the grade level but increasing class sizes um no matter what level um does have does have an impact and is developed by our staff um one of the questions that I had with this and and first of all I do remember the conversation where we did the average class sizes by core class instead of all electives because obviously for the same reason that director Herman just stated um but historically and also given the demographics of our staff we tend to have a fairly topheavy um staff as far as um experience years or 10e staff um when we've increased class sizes uh we tend to see early retirements we tend to see additional substitute costs also because of the stress level it's it's hard enough to grade papers for 25 kids add two more on to that that's another 45 minutes a night and that they do on their own um and that that obviously has trickle down effects are we considering the costs also of potential additional substitute teachers more sick days than normal and and um attrition based upon early retirement that could raise costs in other areas like recruiting have we put in a buffer off percentage for that in our estimates chair friends members of the board um in terms of our uh attrition cost um that has been pretty cost neutral over the years because we no longer um are hiring staff at step one step two um we have a lot of our our positions are hardto Place positions where we are seeing more experienced staff members come into the system um in terms of our recruitment costs that was a budgetary cut last year so we don't have a great deal of recruitment cost um in our budget to date um and and we don't we haven't had a Time study done on how much it cost us to on board staff member um completed and I apologize by I missed your second question sub cost um in terms of our sub costs um we we have seen an increase in our fill rate that has increased um in our overall cost but in terms of any sort of analysis that's been done on on increase of sub cost based off of class sizes I'm I'm not aware of any study that has been done to to make TH or to predict those costs I have more of a well it's kind of a question kind of a comment um I see two things here I see a conversation about the the class discussion cap at elementary as one item and I see a second item of course offerings and Staffing efficiencies at our secondary level personally I see those two items um I like director Atkinson have a pretty recent memory of last February like we've gone through this I personally don't see a world where we cannot adjust our staffing models mostly based upon a slide that director Frederick Frederickson sent over earlier that $98 million this year was staff salaries and benefits 16 million in purchase services and then supplies are 3.4 and capital expenditures are 3.6 we are going to have to touch that $98 million bucket somehow and so I trust that getting a registration packet out that is going to be inaccurate and students register and parents sit next to their children and go through it all and then we yank all that could be extremely frustrating to our community so we either run it that way and go oh gosh we knew that was going to happen but we did it anyways or we're really diligent now and we say well what is that Staffing model going to look like in those course offerings and we're going to have to stick to that so that's my opinion I see that there's just not a way to kind of Kick this can down the road and if those are the conversations that we need to decide on by next Wednesday the 18th I mean I personally am like I see it now I don't I don't want to go down the Spanish Immersion path if we don't have to but I'd like to look at what is efficient especially because if I look at the 18th 1920 then you have two holidays in there and you have really short weeks and if we're going to expect our staff to really work hard and get this right by the 14th we should probably give you the time to do that that's just my opinion is is there um I don't even know if I want to ask this question I mean what are the implications of delaying registration is that a possibility or is it not does it cause too big of a trickle down effect um chair Crosby members of the board um I I would exercise caution around that we have made um great efforts to move up our staffing process to better align with surrounding districts um in the past it's been more heavily focused on the recruiting side of things to make sure that we are able to recruit with all um with all the other districts at the similar time I would um be very cautious this year round if we're impacting the number of staff that we're predict predicting we are we delay that decision e even further and then they miss out on the especially the largest District's openings and then don't have the opportunity to apply if we were able to provide them that notice um in a more timely manner that could significantly help them so any delays in this process delays our ability to inform our staff that are impacted one way or another um it also helps um our system come to an ease when we have those decisions made and there people are no longer living in a limbo situation from a staffing perspective and an employee morale perspective I would just um exercise caution and and doing any further delays on that thank you I have a question um in the past I don't know where I got this report from but it's a prek to 12 per pupil reporting um report and it goes all the way back to 20 13 14 gives the average daily membership of students um total government funds the cost per people but then it also gives how many how much teaching staff we have the number of teaching staff and it gives the pupil teacher ratio and I think it'd be really helpful I mean we're really only missing one year on here to really see um the difference between like 2017 18 we had you know 8600 it's about the same as what we have now currently and we were at 473 teaching staff with a ratio of 18.2 I think it'd be really helpful for our conversation next week to know what those numbers are so that we can have more of like a holistic look at how does that compare to where we were back in 2017 18 or even some of the historical numbers here as well so I don't know if you know those numbers off the top of your head um if not I I would I wouldn't assume you do so thank you but if you could anyway pull that or even just I can get you a copy of this report I think it's something you give to us in the past so Dr ainson members of the board I would have to take a well first of all thank you for the compliment no I don't have that on top of my head um I would have to see that report to know what you're referring to um and then as we've discussed a couple different times with the school board I just exercise I would recommend exercising caution comparing to 2017 um at a ADM specific level um our our El numbers are different our special education numbers are different the mandates that we're supporting in a classroom are are different um but I'm ha if it's the will of the board to update that report I'm happy to look at it to determine where it came from to see if that's information that we have available yeah I haven't seen that report um but um I know that we've seen similar stuff but you're right those Staffing numbers have changed and um quite significantly over the years because almost every other year we've discussed a um average staff ratio now there's a lot of reports out there like Niche and stuff like that that go on survey that aren't correct uh and we have had a reduction um my question um I'm not so interested in where we were in 2017 given the changes in the environment but my question is more or less um understanding the net impact to educational outcomes so that we're clear we may not have a choice but at least we go in with open eyes of understanding that impact of increasing particularly Elementary and Middle School core classes uh and with the extra emphasis on the elementary because as we're trying to improve what we saw last month on the whatever that thing is World blessed Workforce whatever it's called kaker whatever um I would see that has a direct impact on those educational outcomes by increasing any class size and we may not have a choice but I'd like to go in with open eyes chair France I'll just yeah um that that is something that we shared at our last um study session as a unintended consequence of uh managing class sizes differently and that is as you increase your class sizes the management of a classroom gets more challenging and also if we are engaging in like that second term or midterm conversation around some of the supports um around Deans or social workers or counselors and trying to keep classrooms whole then the supports are also restricted so yes um you're right the unintended consequence for adjusting class siiz ratios is classro management and the ability to have the onetoone relationships and if I don't have that ability uh or if that's more compromised then we would see a a correlation between the engag M of students the education of students Etc so we can't predict exactly what that would look like but you're absolutely right that's that's a natural byproduct of higher class sizes excuse me um I just like to add this report is a district it was a district made report it was in one of our budget documents and and just in addition to what you said Dr Thomas I think what we really all need to keep on top of our mind is our new strategic plan and how do these cuts matter what cuts we make in the next year how do these cuts um align with our strategic plan whether it's academic excellence and giving each student their unique learning needs and goals Meeting those uniique learning goals and also positive learning environments and like you said Dr Thomas if you inre increase class size what is that going to look like as far as um where staff are valued and um students are engaged in learning and so um I think that this conversation next week this the whole strategic has to be top of mind and whether even whether we move move forward with this or whether we push back and say no we're going to we're going to look at something different so I know there's other districts in the state whove said we're not touching student we're not touching teachers um we're pushing back and asking for administrative ch um cuts and so I think that you know I'm looking forward to that conversation but I think our stri plan has to be something that we keep on top of Mind through all these conversations I just know a while back during the audit I think our administrative costs which we categorize different we've had that conversation too what counts is Administrative but I think we're at like 3.4 million um even if you wiped out all Administration completely you're still not going to get there which would be absolutely impossible right like no corporations run without administrated I so I think you just have to be careful if you really want to look at the numbers and the truth right Corporate America can try to increase revenues we can't we were told that we figured that out in November so the reality is we can try to be kind to our staff and let them have proper time to go look for new positions if need be we can be really honest with our community that our classes no one wants small big class sizes we no it's just but it the numbers are there the math is there they're they're they're not that's not the $330,000 here and there for some sort of little technology item that helps things run more efficiently we knew this was coming we saw it there's no surprises this conversation has been going on for quite a while and I don't think we're being fair to pretend like there's going to be some miraculous and I think I said this at the study session so I I'm not going to continue to go on and on but we know this we knew this was coming this way and you have to be realistic about it and I sat through the Strat plan as well I enjoyed all of the hopes and aspirations and I loved when when our student rep said that she would have taken AP cem if she could that's academic Excellence I understand it but when class sizes and Staffing ratios have to be adjusted that's a reality so I need to clarify director Banick there's $7 million worth of Staff just in the DSC building alone administrative costs million we've already had this discussion multiple times 7.2 million and and no that's we're not even going to go happy to post it online for anybody to see 54 FTE 7 million um no um so let's um I I would like to understand the the the Confluence of a couple of things and I mentioned this before and I understand that Paras are not part of this but when we increase class sizes and we do have an increase in in kids needing IEPs and speds uh plans um and you increase class sizes um we also some I mean I've walked through all the elementary schools uh now in the past month and almost all of them had supports in the classroom uh and increased number of supports than they've had previously so when we do this um are we going to have to increase those supports and will that increase costs in other place and that's why I'm trying to understand that whole interaction we can increase class sizes we're going to have no matter what a hit on educational outcomes but we also have an increase and an influx of those IEP plans so help me understand how we're going to buffer that or is are we taking this just one variable at a time in order to have a control Factor yeah so there's just some unknowns I I think logically we can say yes by increasing classes it increases the complexities of management and everything that we just talked about a few minutes ago is it a true one toone correlation that we're going to have higher referral rates Etc we can't say that for a fact um we have uh supports in our classrooms that was one area that we made some critical investments in um as we're coming out of Co a couple years ago um and those Investments are there to help um support kids in that tier one tier 2 um will we have others who continue to Rise um to higher levels of support yeah that's going to happen um and right now um we would have to monitor that to see what H you know similar to what we're just talking about with the calendar until we actually have this as our reality we're going to speculate what the the impact will be we I think we can use our logic to say this is what's going to happen and now let's see if it actually plays out and if we have to shift resources Etc then those are the things that we're going to have to engage in um based upon the realities that come with various classes I mean I I obviously like I'm just a 17-year-old high school student not just but thank you um I would like like to say when I was in elementary school obviously a lot of things change obviously there's more people being diagnosed there's more um there's more uh helpful people trying to help us out when I was in elementary school I was one of 31 and in my classroom and yes I think there was definitely there was definitely a lot of chaos and with covid there's probably a lot of Behavioral issues that might come out of that um but it didn't seem like it was as big of a problem as a lot of people are maybe speculating it to be if something we going not even near 31 per class again and I agree with Dr Thomas where it's kind of like we have to no matter what we're going to have to make those risks no matter what we're going to have to make changes no matter what we're going to have to make cuts and with such big Revenue with um this example it's kind of something that has to be um noticed that has to be acknowledged and that has to have a chance of being played out whether we like it or not and um we knew that we all know that some somebody's going to be mad something's going to happen in no matter what direction like that was my coach up there and I know everybody from state three of the girls um on the State team for swimming your state champion we all started at Twin Oaks so if that happens that's going to crush a lot of us we know that um but with something like this it's such a greater outcome with I feel like only ifs and possibilities of consequences where we should look deeper into it um I have a couple more questions but I I've spoken already so I'll defer in case of anybody else director I think I got my head mostly wrapped around what you're what you're getting at with this with this slide um but I think that if I can get philosoph philosophical for a minute that that we're we're going of zeroed in on this page and what's happening in the next few weeks and months but um and I know we've talked a little about little bit about this Dr Thomas I'm I find myself really concerned not about this year or even next year I think public education is on the verge of a complete structural change I if you think that that the state's going to come and rescue us anytime soon with their budget forecast well you're you're wrong will we be able to to get a levy passed maybe I mean probably eventually uh will that change long term the things we're trying to do or will we find ourselves right back in here 6 7 8 9 10 years from now and my encouragement is to for admin rtion you know we're going to have to do what we're going to have to do and class sizes are going to have to go up more than likely um I was on a board where where we had 41 kids in sixth grade and you think you're getting emails now that was phone calls back then and um you know you'll you'll get through it um if it's temporary my concern is that is is the next decade what the things you want to do with your with your area superintendent regard the kinds of things the stat are telling us to do if those things don't get taken care of this conversation is going to be happening every single year for the next decade and on so we can nitpick around here and say that we should cut here and there that's not the problem it's the problem today but it's not the problem you know for the next several several years and um I don't know that that just popped into my head now and and I I I for us to to try to you know go through all the possible scenarios about two more kids here or three more kids there uh the bigger class sizes are going to be a bigger pain for the majority of the teachers depending on the kind of class that they have some teachers will manage it better than others some will get frankly will get lucky with a good group of kids I mean it's just a just a there's all kinds of things that can and we can't control that all we can control is the budget for now but again my my bigger concern is is moving forward because this this is just the tip of the iceberg of what we're going to be facing director white I think your points are very well tiken from some of our one-on-one conversation and and and yes we do have this immediate technical thing right before us we we have to make these decisions the math is real so we know we're going to have to make these adjustments um and and so it's the both and of the local conversation plus then where do we then Advocate legislatively because um as you I discussed uh we are at that implosion point we're not the only ones here and multiple districts are in this space and for the foreseeable future as well so um you know there's a deep structural challenge that's more of a legislative conversation so that has to occur and I know that uh you know this will be something that the new board will engage in around um the legislative platform and I I know that we just had the delegates assembly a week or two ago and a couple of our groups are kind of Landing so we're going to solidify ours locally here which is not going to be much different than where we've been because nothing seems we can't Advance the ball legislatively so um I will say um this is a big push for our community locally here to also push your not these local electives but our other local electives electeds who are at the legislature making key decisions around the value proposition of public education um so so that is another invite that I have for our community um and our staff that um yes we we will get pushed to do our jobs here at at at the board throughout the administrative ranks Etc and we need that advocacy um going above this conversation director white I want to thank you for elevating the conversation I think our Board needs that um especially as I look at this and and see the thorough work that our leadership team has done and our administrators and staff across the district have done on this I don't see I mean certainly we can push back and have deeper conversations frankly I feel like that's a conversation as the year progresses with the new board um we know we're going to have to have increased class sizes we don't like it I don't I don't like any of these things I think it's administration's job to move forward on these things and I've seen our Administration take Furlow I've seen our principal cover multiple bu buildings you know I mean trying trying to do enormous amounts of work so I don't I I think we're from a leadership perspective and an Administration perspective around decision making I I think you're on the right track and I think that's your job and for us as a board it's about advocacy and it's maybe about Vision too and looking for opportunity so this isn't a place for me to throw out what that looks like right now but as an example um you can mcaps is a really strong program just because it moves to the high school do doesn't mean kids won't open and roll for those opportunities so maybe there's a vision there to create Revenue that way so it's not all lost and all negative and all bad it's opportunity to change and be better and and really showcase what we have I know there's a district a neighbor neighboring District to us that are they neighboring I'm not sure they're neighboring um who who has really shifted their model for online learning and increased their enrollment hug huge in online learning I'm not I don't think that's us I'm saying that that's a model that they've tried to take an opportunity and and create Revenue you know and so those are the conversations I'd like the I'm rolling off the board right I'm done but those are the conversations I think that are exciting when we talk about fundamental change and in terms of increasing class size yeah we're going to have to do it and I think having a meeting next week or not you know what it's going to have to happen this board isn't going to probably change that because we're talking $5 million in one year and then five the next you know so um so thank you for elevating that conversation so just I guess I mean the discussion is not over that's fine but then moving forward for the next N9 days do we go home and mull it over I mean how how I mean what's what's the will of the board here how do we that's a good question how do we uh um that that's my only little bit of confusion with this process we have this 9-day window do I schedule meetings with all of you and get your feedback do I you know schedule time with Dr Thomas and all the directors and I mean what's I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to move forward so that I make the right decision in nine days what they've asked us to do in the study session is basically to give um Direction and also to solidify this information but I agree with every everyone we are going to increase class sizes my concern and what I saw this before um and I remember the no cap on open enrollment and all that leading up to the building operations Levy where classes were exploding but for a different reason um the problem is is that there was hidden costs and so what I want to be really clear on is when we look at these ongoing savings um and we've seen this happen before is we're doing a statistical number of we increase the cap by two therefore we decrease FTE automatically by this much um and it seems like it's all just cut and dry it's a simple you know arithmetic I'm seeing more of a algebraic conversation here that there's hidden costs in here that we have been hit by before um and I'd like to know that as I believe Dr Thomas you brought up is we we have a little over 4 million that we absolutely have to cut being conservative and make sure we're going for that 5 million because I believe that there will be hidden costs and and we're going to be in a situation where um like we have done before where all of a sudden something comes up and we're adjusting the budget and taking more money out of a fund balance that is quickly whittling down so I just want to make sure that all the variables have been included in here and that we are truly being conservative with these savings numbers as we go on because this is just step one in the process we still have a lot more to cut and um personally I don't like the numbers being thrown out that have been said that weren't true but I also don't like the fact of when I go into an elementary or middle school I see nobody sitting around and doing nothing matter of fact the amount of work which just sharing facilities people during a time where I think just in the time that I was in one Elementary they had three kids puke and we had one facilities person that was actually being shared between two different buildings we couldn't get to that fast enough and then you're dealing with other issues and parents complaining and all that um and we're dealing with the health and safety of kids so if we're going to go ahead and start to make even deeper cuts on top of this we can't change that but we have to be really clear on the consequences and and understand the risk that we are through no fault of our own now taking and that's that's the only thing that that concerns me and I and I would agree with that it's just I want to make sure that if if this is the direction we decided to go in 9 days that when those ancillary unexpected costs that may show up as a result of us doing this that then we don't double whammy these people I think that extra cuz we're we're at about 3.9 right now of the stuff that had numbers to it so that leaves another 1.1 that that can't come from here I mean it has to come from somewhere else whether it's Administration or Pro you know program Cuts whatever it is if we're going to hit them now they need to be confident that when those other surprise come we're not going to hit them again yeah at least with this round yeah and and by the way with the men caps and all that um here's my concern is we and I have no problem with moving it to the high school and eliminating the transportation cost but the reconfiguration of a wing to put menc caps in the cost and the certification that occurred for the healthc care pathway if we're not going to offer it we need to know that right away um then there's the issue where in our neighboring districts that have the pathways they do have more Pathways um and and do