that's behind where our secretary is sitting down right now um if you don't fill it out beforehand just do so afterwards so we have it and there are also copies of the agenda up behind the Das there or up behind Jenny while we're waiting we're going to make a little bit of a change in the agenda that doesn't have to be recorded as such because we've got it all copied we're going to ask Mark mcmanis and um Don Heaton to come up they represent the United States Navy and Mr mcmanis is an exofficio member of the Planning Commission because of the ex ENT of the Navy's operations with the overlay zones concerning the bombing ranges that are in putam county and adjacent to putham County they're going to take probably five or six or so minutes and give us a presentation that details is that right five or six minutes you ever take a little more maybe 15 okay that may give us time to get all the systems operating anyhow um they're going to do a presentation for us today to explain their operation and how it impacts our planning and development in putham County so without any further Ado I will introduce Mark mcmanis who's the planning Lea Zone operator for Nas Jacks and it's all yours Mr mcmanis ah thank you m chairman uh thank you everyone uh for the Planning Commission to allow us to speak tonight we need you to speak into the mic sorry uh my name is Mark mcmanis I'm the community planning liaison for NAS Jacksonville and as the chairwoman said I am the ex official representative uh per Florida statute to the Planning Commission as the can you all hear him you can okay good I just want to make sure I'll use my big boy voice uh I brought with me today Mr Don Heaton who's the range director at Pine Castle range and he will go over Pine Castle range itself and then I will talk about the range air Installation comple use Zone manual which documents range operations and how air to ground operations and Noise uh can impact the residents of putam County so with that being said Don if you uh step up okay keep with this good evening yeah my name is uh don heon I'm the director of the Navy's uh Pine Castle range complex so uh if you've got handouts or if we've got electronic versions uh please open up to the Pine Castle overview section uh do we have that on on power power point that we can yeah right now the PowerPoint is not synchronized yeah okay are we going to get the synchronized back there I think we're working on that can you do it for that one over there well that makes sense that's a security issue I can understand that in that power no yeah thank you again I apologize for the delays I are we ready to go with a regular meeting do you all want to get that worked out and then we'll have them at the regular time on the agenda now that way we don't have to delay the agenda item so all right it's 4067 I'm yeah it's 407 I'm going to call the meeting of putam County Planning Commission to order before we start I do need to PLL each member of the Planning Commission as to any uh conflicts of interest they may have with either of the two cases or any expar communication that they've had with either of the applicants or with anyone concerning either of the cases so I'll start with you Mr Morris have you had any ex officio communication uh no have you had any uh do you have any conflicts of interest no thank you uh Mr D santis no no no no ex no no ex parte and no conflict of interest I don't know whether your microphone works or not it's not turned on no that right no down by the there you got it John okay yeah um I have had no expart communication and I have had no conflict of interest Mr Frolic no and no Mr hodj no okay uh thank you very much um we are the putam County Planning Commission and we work as an organ as a body to give advice to the putam County Board of planning Board of Commissioners um um we operate under chapter 163 of the Florida Statutes and we function under the authority of Articles 11 and 12 of the putam County Land Development code the primary responsibility of the commission is to serve as an advisory body to hear and make recommendations to the board of County Commissioners on matters related to provisions of and proposed amendment to the putam county comprehensive plan and the putham County Land Development code the members of this board will review each application and make a recommendation to the board of County Commissioners at their regularly scheduled meeting on June 25th 2024 procedurally we will call each Case by name and number a member of the staff will then briefly explain to us the nature of each request we will then take any comments from the applicant or their representative followed by public comments concerning the request and then we'll bring it back to the board after that please direct all comments or statements to the board and not to other people in the audience before speaking we will ask that you come to the podium be recognized and identify Yourself by name and address after all persons wishing to speak have been heard we will then bring it back for a motion and action by the board members which will become our recommendation to the board of County Commissioners the board of County Commissioners will make the final determination regarding the application all applicants have have the right to withdraw their request at any time during the application process the following cases there are no cases that were advertised that are being withdrawn uh the first case to be considered today is Rez 24-0 00002 Jennifer thank you for the record Jennifer gazelle this application is for reone from residential 2 and Commercial neighborhood C1 to commercial neighborhood C1 the applicant is WCR 2015 LLC agent being Jane white Bridget Costello and Elizabeth Riley parcel is 1.78 Acres located at 661 and 657 South Highway 17 in San Mato the applicant is requesting a zoning map Amendment from residential R2 and Commercial neighborhood C1 to commercial neighborhood C1 to allow for a multi-unit retail or office space building the purpose of the requested zoning map amendment is to rezone 1.78 Acres from residential R2 and Commercial neighborhood C1 to commercial neighborhood C1 to allow for a multi-unit retail or office space building the parcel is designated urbal urban service on the adopted future land use map the surrounding areas are mostly residential to and agriculture the two subject Parcels contain approximately 230 ft of Road Frontage along South Highway 17 and approximately 270 ft of Road Frontage along troop Road the parcel does not appear to contain wetlands and is located within FEMA flood zone X which is not a special flood Hazard area should this reone be approved the applicant will then submit to the development Review Committee DRC to satisfy additional development requirements the DRC will review plans to ensure the development is compliant with local state and federal development regulations agencies including but not limited to Florida Department of Health putam County Public Works Emergency Services St John's River Water Management District will review the plans to ensure the development will not adversely affect surrounding properties our aerial view future land use your [Music] zoning flood [Music] zone Wetlands staff recommends approval of the request to amend the zoning map from residential R2 and Commercial neighborhood C1 to commercial neighborhood C1 staff finds that the proposed resoning is consistent with the goals objectives and policies of the adopted comprehensive plan and meets the locational requirements of the commercial neighborhood C1 zoning District provided in the Land Development code and the comprehensive plan are there any questions of Jennifer we've seen this case before haven't we yes ma'am they took out one of the parcels um and they're just on the two two Parcels rather than the three no questions is the agent or the owner here and would like to speak please come forward and give us your name and address yes Elizabeth Riley 129 troop Road Sano Florida um just to say our plan would be an attractive well-maintained storefront Office three you know three units neat tidy helpful we were thinking office bace maybe a barber shop a nail salon something along those lines that would benefit the people in our immediate area um I would like a nail anyhow so just to say uh nothing detrimental to our community you know certainly we live here we we would just like to do something that would be you know presentable and helpful that's all and talk to us about the Quan We would like to recondition that and have it be some type of an office space we've been all through it and it has tremendous potential I mean I walk through it and you know I just see different and things that could be done in there to really make it a desirable unique office structure you know we we've certainly been all through it and around it and you know that's what we came up with you know it to do something like that it it would just look better it would be a benefit and you know an improvement you know something nice okay now is the the storefront being used now there the the part that is zoned and is able to be used yes ma'am uh that would be in front of the quanset right yes ma'am uh uh there was a young woman in there who is an artist okay great so but like I said we would love to do further improvements to the what's beyond at the quanset and then like we had talked about you know the just three storefronts you know tidy clean neat helpful any questions okay thank you very much please stay here in case we do have questions come up thank you um is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak either for or against this and I have no I don't have anybody for that come on up yes ma'am just hand that to Jenny you'll be fine hello your name and address my name is Janice Waters wall and my I live at 113 ddy Drive San Mona Florida 32187 um we've been here before when the um Property Owners requested for the three lots to be changed and now with the this request um the lot that is off a troop road is right next door to where um our home is and um I've lived there for almost 33 years and when we built that home it's for um residential and the lot next to us was is also residential um however to change it to a C1 zoning would allow for commercial development and um we feel like that that would really intrude on our quality of life with noise and traffic and other things and so we would like to request that um the lot that is on troop Road not be resed okay I thank you you're welcome is there anyone else who would like to speak either for or against this application okay hearing none I'm going to bring it back to the Planning Commission for discussion and action what are your thoughts gentlemen well while I appreciate the fact that they live next door and don't want to see that developed it's on a commercial space on two primary roads looks like there's commercial space at the end of it I think the traffic's already established there um it it with all due respect to the to the to the folks that live around there I think the it looks as if staff got it right with the uh recommended of approval I think okay I T to believe that anyone else Tom Joy Noley go ahead Mo recomend the board of County Commissioners approve resoning z242 Mr Hodge has made the motion do I hear a second I'll second Mr Morris has seconded other discussion I think one thing we need to note with the completion of the four lane down US 17 to the bridge um a lot of that land along that Frontage on the highway has been reclassified in the future land use uh map to be urban service and urban Reserve thinking that these These are areas that are ripe for commercial development so that's goes hand inand with what this request is um anything that is constructed there will be required to submit for plans review and everything else with the county will go through the development review process and will have to be passed and approved by the planning and zoning department before they move forward with construction so there are standards that will be held in place there are certain standards for buffering where there will be um vegetative or fences put up that will be attractive to help minimize any spillover of light and noise so there are a lot of things that will go into this process once the ball begins to roll um I don't think it's going to take away from the residential nature that much down that area because that's a well established uh subdivision in in the San Mato area okay any any further then let's vote all in favor please signify by saying I I chair votes I all oppos nay nobody's against it passes unanimously um we'll move forward this will go to the County Board of County Commissioners at their second meeting in June next we have on our agenda rez2 2- 00000000 003 which is an application by the putham County Board of uh education and Jennifer I see you're up again for this yes ma'am thank you Jennifer gazelle for the record so application is to rezone from agriculture to public use light P1 the applicant is putam County School District district school board the agent is Clay Swagger of Eda Consultants this is an 18.11 acre parcel located at 156 Horseman Club Road in Palaca again the applicant is requesting a zoning map Amendment from agriculture to public use light P1 to allow for a new Public School the purpose of the requested zoning map amendment is to rezone 18.11 acres from agriculture to public use light P1 to allow for a new public School the parcel is designated public facilities on the adopted future land use map the subject parcel has approximately 600 ft of Road Frontage on Horsemen Club Road the parcel does appear to contain approximately 60,000 Square ft of wetlands and is located in FEMA flood X which is not a special flood Hazard area the current zoning of Agriculture does does allow educational uses by way of a special permit however the existing future land use and the existing zoning are inconsistent the public facilities future land use designation is meant for Community facilities and services according to table 2.1a of the Land Development code the public facility's future land use designation is only compatible with public light P1 public heavy P2 and plan unit development PUD the previous School sighting would have been classified as a type 1 non-conforming use as defined by LDC section 45-8 13 non-conforming uses have Provisions in place which allow for maintenance repairs and insignificant renovations to occur however any significant renovation expansion or Redevelopment require the site to be consistent in regards to zoning and the designated future land use category the only method of compliance for a new school to be built is to request an amendment to the zoning map to make the property consistent with the Land Development code and the comprehensive plan construction of public [Music] schools by the putham County School District are exempt from obtaining building permits from putham County in addition the puam County School Board is exempt from submitting development re development plans to the development Review Committee School bill building plans and site development plans are preempted to the Florida Department of Education and neac for approval by certified reviewers specializing in the development of public school buildings for aerial view future land use zoning flood zones Wetlands staff recommends approval of the request to amend the zoning map from agriculture to public use light P1 as the proposed amendment is consistent with the adopted goals objectives and policies of the putam county comprehensive plan and is compatible with existing development in the area thank you Jennifer are there questions of staff okay hearing none I see we have several Representatives out in our audience who's going to come forth and talk please state your name and your uh address and help inlighten us good afternoon I'm clay Swagger I work with Eda Consultants I'm a land planner here in North Florida our address is 720 Southwest 2 Avenue Gainesville Florida um we're here representing the putham County School Board uh as the property owner I'd like to just make a few basic comments and if you have any questions for us we'd be glad to answer them this afternoon um as you all are probably aware the eh Miller School um is under a rebuild process right now with the school board um which is excellent for the a level service your public schools here um but part of that process um U putham County zoning is um made us aware that the zoning of the land is still zoned agriculture um and they also indicated that the future land use map in the comprehensive plan for putham County um identifies the property as public facilities and your Land Development code um identifies P1 which is um public use light and P2 which is sort of more intensive type public uses and PUD are the only zoning districts that are consistent with your comprehensive plan land use map that's been in place for a long time and so as such we're we're coming to you to request a p one Zoning for the property which again is the public use light um that's a the definition from this uh county code it really only allows schools cultural uses Civic uses and recreational uses it does not allow some of the more intensive type public uses that you might find like utilities or prisons or anything like that so it's really just sort of it's limited to those things and of course this has been a school property for decades and decades and so um this will help the process along um and getting the school ready uh for next year to serve the community um the planning staff does have a recommendation of approval and they find their recommendations that were consistent with your comprehensive plan and we agree um we did submit um materials and a report to that effect um I'm also here today with the um school superintendent Mr sheny um and the engineer of record Mr Sergio Rey if you have any questions for us again this is one of many different um steps and processes that we're going through um for the school expansion so we we appreciate the chance to be here um and happy to answer any questions you may have thank you thank you are there any questions I've got a question um so typically with any general construction any contractors in town building in a not for the school system the first stop in that that trip is typically Planning and Zoning to make sure that there's zoning clearance with the school district being in a quasi independent scenario meaning they only they do their permit record review or their permit review inhouse in effect through neac yes sir whose responsibility and where does it fall to get that zoning clearance and why is it not why was it not in the beginning of the process why have you guys already demoed thousands of square feet of building of existing structure out there without the building being zoned properly where does that where does it fall in the sequence of events well you are correct in that the the site improvements are allowed through that separate process as a school board facility we also have gotten other permits for utility connections Road access and so forth that are outside the purview of the school board um quite honestly we just were not aware of the need to reone the property until later on we knew that the comprehensive plan um had um established that as a School site for um time and essentially as soon as we were notified we we filed the application okay and I can answer a little bit of that uh this is one of those situations where the future land use map and the zoning map are in conflict because they just never were brought up to date of from an internal basis and there were going to be many we we're going to see this as we go through we've seen it a lot with what we have a non-conforming use and Zoning in relationship to the land use map and it's just a case when the land use map was first established it was done um manually and um the zoning map was done manually and they not all the time were compatible and we're finding this we see this a couple times a year we're going to see non-conforming uses where we're being asked to do it so I'm not going to lay all the blame on the the board of education but yeah there's a little there with them and there's a little there with us well and I have a follow-up question to that and this is probably more for Zach um when when the school board builds a new structure places a new structure on do they get zoning clearance through the county or they do that without any oversight from the county it has to come to the county is there is there a zoning permit issued anytime they build bring in Portable Buildings and stuff like that or build sheds or or does is that in-house in in the school district all new development for School site is is the schools uh perview through through neet so they they they do not bring a site plan to you guys for review before they say place a portable building or place a storage building or gymnasium or anything like that that that doesn't get reviewed by the county or does it no sir it doesn't okay sir we only handle the zoning side of it the zoning and land use side of it I know but as as a as a home builder the first thing that I do is I submit a and if I'm building an a building that is exemp from building permits I still am required to come to the county to issue for them to issue a zoning permit saying that they've reviewed right the site the setbacks are correct the the zoning is correct for the use of the building like I that that that's something that happens outside of the building permit portion of that and but you're saying there's none of that with the school district is that how I understand that that is correct okay this is one of those things we don't see every year and every every week but uh any other questions I would just say I can tell you that working in other communities as well particularly when there's a public use that's been there a long time sometimes a zoning map has never changed from Agriculture and it's just there until something comes forward right I do I do have another question yes um water and sewer currently where's the closest water connection Municipal Water connection not not well water um I would ask Mr Reyes to come forward engineer record he can speak a lot more detail on this issues thank you if you would give us your name and address sure Serio Rees uh um with Ed consultant 720 Southwest Second Avenue Gainesville Florida the the all school have a water connection on side and actually the utilities are provided by the city of Palatka so we are improving those water and sewer um going to be improved uh there is an ex uh it was an existing lifestation serving the property serving the old school that is going to be rebuil completely demolish the old one and a brand new le station so water insur are provided by the city of Palatka you're saying there is currently Municipal Water and City yes sir uh City Water and Sewer there yes sir okay that was not my understanding it is it's there and we got a permit from them to connect to that okay and that that line extends all the way to the current property actually goes past the existing property and you drive a l horse hman uh Road you see the five hings in there so that give you an indication where the water line goes okay all along there but there is is to the property in there yes and where where's the sewer plant for that the the Lea station the existing Le station is in the South part of the property by The Woodlands by the ditch you guys look at not the property in the South part the there there's a leaf station it was a leaf station provided in there they Ser the school and ser property so now the fourth main is go excuse me we're going to put a brand new Leaf station in there and connect to the force men heading south the the leaf station is also there is a forc man in the south side of the property okay it's the the the force man go from the Le Station South then East and then South again okay and I been there for many years M I don't do we do we we don't have a map of the municipal services on that unfortunately no we don't uh we should have beening a um PowerPoint but no yes U that was there for many many years that's the way the all the school was serve with water and sewer okay now this school is going to have a water tank but this is for fire protection it's different okay holding tank yeah for water prot fire protection they require by building codes today's building codes okay the other question I have you guys um in the in our packet it referenced uh the traffic Studies have have our traffic studies been done for Horse Club Road we did that traffic study uh to determine what is the route of the bus the bus route is coming from the south from night night 19 you enter the the property from the south end turn around and leave in the same way so there is not going to be bus traffic going North to 20 now also we have S meetings with do State Road 20 is the road I'm going to try to see if we can do some improvements along the intersection Horseman and a 20 improvements is going to be something like a um school zone signs hopefully we're going to do but that's controlled with d so we have preliminary meetings with then already and so far they are not very receptive to do any improvements in there one point we were hoping for a light at that location but the distance between that intersection and the next one is only 850 ft and the separation between lights it has to be a half a mile so that's not going to happen but we're hoping for improvements and and that when I say Improvement signalize improvements you know flashing lights hopefully and some something like that will the traffic pattern for parent drop off and pickup also be coming from the south most of the traffic is there but some some of the the parent traffic coming from the north to of course because is not limited just to the South so we're not looking at Excel D cell Lanes or anything like that on 20 we actually put in a left lane at the entrance of the school for for the parents yes ma'am okay good yes sir try to contains ofer no every there is a very large parking lot for the parents within the school property yes sir yes sir great because I know Kelly Smith has a problem with stacking and getting cars in and out of there you're you're saying there'll be parking for the capacity of the students that are there that's correct yes sir 1500 students that are there accommodate that aren't transported by school buses most of the students are going to come school buses but they still parking for the teachers and parking for students and parents coming to the school okay any other questions anyone else do you know the current size of the water man and all there is a um 8 in com to the property eight mhm and when he gets into the property get to six to be at 6 in in there the Force main is very small the Force main is going by memory is a 2 in Force main going south from the Le station what size 2 in Force main oh okay okay this this water water line serve the the neighbors to the west of the school also the water line does the water Lin yes how about the Force main then no it doesn't no the Force main is just on the Lea station is just for the school okay the for the Lea station is is going to be dedicated to the city of Palatka once it's constructed they were maintaining the old Leaf station so they're going to keep that okay anything else Mr H Mr Cy uh would you like to speak you're good okay Mr Council back there are you good I'm always good and you're telling us that Don okay we've had him up here many times okay thank you very much um I do have one speaker card of someone who would like to speak and I think Jenny's bringing me another one um this time I would call read Matthews you would come up and speak read Matthews 111 East grelin Lane East Paca um couple things one I can't ask them questions but I would kind of urge you to just get clarification do y' any of y'all re remember seeing any fire hydrants along Horseman's Club I mean obviously most of us have lived here our whole life and I I'm just getting I just got in the Google car and I don't see them I don't know just some of these things aren't adding up and you know at what cap you know what is the give me the capacity of the stacking of the cars on onsite you know do we have that answer on in the packet it said as many as possible but is that 10 is it 100 is it 500 you know I don't think there's any clarification there um you know another thing is you know they said they've done one traffic study I was at the PAC meeting a couple weeks ago and they said they were in the process of doing their second traffic study I'm not sure if that's second traffic study has been completed or if he's just referring to the first one um you know another question another thing would be you know they're trying to get the state to do some improvements you know 20 in different intersections but trying and getting them done are two separate things you know just like we know that need as soon as we pass this off neek is going to be the one that you know does the rest of the permitting we only have one chance to get it right here on our level to make sure that the citizens that are there locally you know are protected and they can get in and out of their houses Emergency Services can come and go you know I know they said they'll have a Dell Lane sounds like going left into there but I mean are we talking 50 ft that accommodates four of the 150 cars that are dropping off at parent pickup I mean I don't there's not very much room for expansion of the roads on either side of the ditches are you know within a couple feet you know whenever we met at the same pack meeting they said wasn't even enough room to put sidewalks there so they would have to offer buses even to the kids at Heritage Heights and you know the surrounding you immediate area and the same staff that is recommending you approve this had these same concerns at the peack meeting and I don't think these concerns have been met um by speaking with some of them since the peace act meeting they've stated that you know this second traffic study to their knowledge has not been met and some of these other issues have not been done or you know alleviated so you know if that's the case you know obviously I'm not I I think staff is they can do their job but at the same time there's other outside influences that may or may not you know affect them and their ability to do it appropriately and I think we all know what I'm talking about there um I just think that we have the opportunity here to get it get if we're spending $70 million we need to get it right we only have one shot to do it you know do we want to go spend $70 million and for the next 30 years have these traffic issues and you know we have one chance to get it right I think we all know this the school is going to be a site I don't think that's it's going to end up being a school there again but we only got one chance to get it right and as soon as we pass this pass the buck neek has full authority over this and you know I don't think you know we only have one one chance to to get it right that's you know one of my big things there you know they they might come up here and say hey there's a major need we need this you know and on their PowerPoint presentation that they have on their on their website there's over 5,000 vacant seats at schools within putam County so it's a it's a want it's not a need I want to stop you right here we can't renegotiate the peace act meeting um you're not renegotiating it well that's the school board's purview it's we're here only we're here only to discuss the rezoning of that particular site I totally understand and you know any questions about traffic studies we have the one traffic study that's been done that was submitted for this we're going off of the submitt for the rezoning we don't have the authority to make any of the changes in how they're using this property other than to reone it for the proper zoning to be in compliance with the uh the future land use man don't you have the opportunity to rezone it or not rezone it there's just recommendation we we have the opportunity to approve to recommend approval or disapproval of the rezoning okay and that's what I'm speaking about so the same the peace act I'm not sure if you know what the peace act meeting is that's the one interlocal agreement where the county was there and all the municipalities H we're fully aware of that but I want to just caution you that what we're doing here is only the zoning it sounds like you have your mind made up so I'm wasting my time no no my mind's not made up but I'm just telling you what our responsibility is here today to recommend to reone or to not reone correct correct and and with rezoning aren't traffic studies a concern or not we're taking it would be on the private side well we've just had an explanation of traffic that they are going to provide on-site parking for parents coming to drop off and pickup students we have to go with capacity of this parking is the traffic study in your packet because I didn't see the traffic study in the packet okay I'm not going to argue with you but I just want to make it clear sit down you have your mind made up thank no we're here for zoning only traffic has nothing to do with zoning it does but we've been had we've already been told what they're going to do about traffic they said they're going to have some parking on site they didn't tell you how much and how many people they expect to have so that's going to be between them and neac in their design process we have a sidebar up here no I was going to ask if I could speak of of course you may I know you wanted to up the microphone you meant that in the kindest of way I know you can't come in this room without speaking well there's there's some truth to that Don Holmes uh 222 North thirr Street Paca 32177 on behalf of the school district um first of all I've said it before I consider Reed Matthews a friend and I also consider him to be a a very bright ambitious and uh productive business person in putham County an asset to the county so nothing I say is intended in any way shape or form as a personal criticism of Reed and I'll also say that I know you find yourself in a little bit of a different situation or position in a case like this because of the fact that schools have a statutory exemption ordinarily your out would be to say we're going to reone that's only the only question before us is whether we reone or we don't so our our our consideration is the zoning and we leave it to the development Review Committee to handle such issues as stacking and uh capacities and site plans and health and sewer and water and all those things um I'm not telling you that the way the state has fashioned it is the best way or not the best way I'm just telling you it's the way it's state statute uh and Mr Perry will tell you that we only have so much latitude on those kinds of things so I understand the frustration uh of not having the um you know quiet the audience or the opportunities that you have in a conventional setting uh and I'll be very very honest with you I've never participated in a review through neek uh so I have no I would assume it's a public meeting I would assume it is because they're making a it's a governmental body and I'm making an assumption I'm not giving you a legal opinion so don't don't uh don't want that to be misconstrued but it would appear to me as though it would be some sort of a public meeting at which that would happen but whether it is or it isn't or it's good or it's bad I think what you're left with by law and Mr Perry can correct me if I'm wrong but you got a comprehensive plan designation under your future land use that designates this property as basically public facilities there only three zoning districts that are consistent with that designation so you have a request in front of you to take this property from a classification that isn't permissible in your future land use category your future land use map designation a agriculture it's not it's not permissible in a public facility's land use designation and you have a request for you to put this property in the lightest public facilities category that exists P1 um so basically in all fairness should for some reason this board recommend against or the County Commission recommend against or rule against uh you're left with an inconsistency you're perpetuating an inconsistency between your comp plan and your zoning and I'm not sure how that how that'll fair you know just be quite Frank don't don't we have language in Our Land Development code that says it can maintain that inconsistent see as long as it maintains the same use for example we're in an a zoning which by special use permit allows for Educational Services well it's the question while the zoning stays that agricultural zoning regardless of what the future land use is don't we have the ability to to maintain that traditional use that of course that that in effect a grandfathered use which is where I think we have operated for the last 20 something years but the facility was the same facility right and now that it's being torn down and reconstructed it's got to go back to square one now they could seek a special use permit through the zoning board of appeals that was where I was going with that if we if we maintain the agricultural zoning thereby requiring a special use permit that would then require the school board to enter into the develop Review Committee where we would have some oversight on how that property gets laid out now granted once everything's done they may go off and do whatever they want to without any oversight but at this point the Avenue that I see that looks like it meets everything with the exception of the inconsistency in the future land use but but meets the codes and also leaves us with the ability to manage that or at least have some limited say in it is requires but maintain the the existing zoning require the special use permit which in turn would require Department DRC and would give the the bo the school board the ability to build there but would provide the county with the little bit of oversight that it needs to uh help this project move forwardly move forward with a few more it on it well it will not go Stu fall the crack thus far yeah I don't think that it would hurt to have somebody on this side of the counter looking at it before it was completed unfortunately we have the law that stands between us doing that um the other piece is what what what law are you referring to the state statute and the state statute that requires compliance between the future land use map and the zoning the other thing is if we don't do anything with it and we just let it sit there they've still got to go through State review part of that Nea review is going to be a state consultant who can say h go back to the county and get it reson so there there between a rock and a hard place part of the problem is when we realized and I know staff has realized this through the years and I'm not putting it on you all but through the years I know they've realized these inconsistencies but they did not Broach it because was it was going to be a big process to get all of these School sites zoned in compliance with the future land use map and we've got hundreds and thousands of properties in puam County that are inconsistent can can we have the attorney's opinion on allowing a inconsistency between the can I say one thing first I'll give you a second attorney's opinion yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean carry on that we're here to gather information so I think the question if if I were posing this to a different tribunal and that's not where we want to be I think the question would be not is there a different way that the school board could have chosen to go but the question is do you have a legal right to deny the route that they have chosen to go and I I chose my words carefully there but your point was hey they could have done this they could have left the zoning a and they could have then uh under the exception or the special exception special use permit tried to place a a educational facility there had they applied for that in my opinion would you have been able to consider it possibly I I won't tell you that I've researched it specifically but possibly so but the question from my perspective that I would be posing to somebody looking at the decision is maybe there was another way of of doing this in your code but do you have a basis for denying the way they've chosen when what they have asked to do is consistent with your comprehensive plan and your staff report says it's consistent with adjacent land uses so on what basis do you say no i' like I'd like it to be done a different way no in all fairness I don't think that'll pass muster no I I don't think that my my view on that would be in the to be frank with you I think the municipal services that are provided out there are inadequate for the capacity that's going to be there I think they're adding four times the amount of personnel and student stations there that were originally there I think the original intention of the way that that was done was it was a small private school and not intended to be developed to the point where it would be intrusive to the surrounding Community part of my opinion for being in effect against the rezoning is not just because I want it to have been done a different way it would be because I don't feel like the things that they have put forward thus far the lack of the traffic study the two-lane road out there the the the evidence that we see at Kelly Smith that is very M which has three access points versus what we're in essentially going to have one I I I don't see have not been presented with a traffic study that shows that traffic's going to be accommodated for and don't see anyway logistically that it's going to make a it's going to work out for that and that's that's that's there's many board members up here that's my opinion I I feel like the mechanics of it are extremely inadequate for what is it is out there originally it was briwood School handed a few hundred people now we're talking about putting 1500 kids there like um there's a bunch of components that add up to me not just wanting them to have done it a different way but wanting to say I don't believe that it's consistent with what staff has recommended on this just because of the mechanics of it and if there's a a way to get around that if there's a way to say the things that maybe this maybe they share my concerns maybe they don't maybe it's just me but if there was a way to address my concerns an Avenue that gets us there say through a special use per minute with DRC review that would address some of those things if that is according if according to the attorneys you guys who know that part of it if that is a legit path it will provide us with compliance and it will in addition to address the mechanics of the whole operation that I have concerned with a lot of them then why can't we explore that I mean the argument shouldn't be that I don't want to do it way I'm trying to find compliance but I'm trying to find it in a way so such that the things that I feel are inadequate with the project get addressed and Mr Morris you know that I've had enough discussions with you so that I respect your opinions uh we disagree every now and then but I respect your opinions and your thought process there's no doubt about that and I actually think my way of phrasing it was probably not Artful when I said you it's not the way you wanted it I guess I would state that more more in a more proper fashion more appropriate fashion by saying it's not the way that the county might have chosen had they had the option in in the in the in the beginning so I didn't mean to make that personal to you it really wasn't intentional I get the point was even though there might have been a different way the applicant could have gone under the County's code is that sufficient reason for you to deny the application when it is consistent with your comprehensive plan that's undeniable that's not a staff opinion that's a map right and secondly the other factor is you do have a staff recommendation which is competent and substantial evidence that is compatible with surrounding land uses and we all know y all sat up here a long time that normally zoning is a matter of land use not details uh I and I acknowledge what you said a minute ago in that normally you fall back on the position that details are going to be handled at DRC and in this scenario they're not but still zoning is a matter of land use not for that reason you don't have S plan submitted in a rezoning application you don't have some of the things y that you're talking about aren't normally submitted in a resoning application you don't often have um traffic studies in a resoning application there are there can be some circumstances where you're going to Industrial or heavy commercial but my point simply is those are not part of the normal zoning uh application process because you're talking about land use and then how the development occurs is is is a different matter unlike what happens of course with a PUD or something like that so I'm simply saying and and and like you I have an opinion doesn't mean everybody always agrees with it I've even had a judge or two disagree with it but but still it is my opinion that that the path they've chosen is consistent with your comp plan it's consistent with staff recommendation and even there there might have been a different available route for them to go in my opinion the fact that there was a different available route does it it doesn't provide justification to deny the route that they've taken and that's that's all I meant to say so again nothing personal at all okay first I want to hear from Mike yeah um the question was posed do we have a basis to deny it that is that the qu go ahead and rephrase your question my question was do we have the ability if if we chose to deny the zoning change which would require would then require them to uh uh apply for a special use permit even though they are exempt for buildings that they have or are doing on their own site when it comes to that can we then put DRC in the loop or or is it is the statutory requirement make us not be allowed to do that whatsoever regardless of how it is approached let me rephrase that a little bit if they were to go zboa route for a special use permit does that then take it to DRC or does it still remain with going to neac under the school's regulations I don't know the answer to that do you know what they answer Zach can you answer that question please so the statutes that we've been discussing specifically require municipalities and local school boards to establish an interlocal agreement in which is followed for sighting of of new schools uh or Redevelopment of existing schools um it does not give us the purview to um warrant any additional examination of the school site outside of what the interlocal agreement would call for so while we could go to if the board denied the application could go to a special use permit uh that doesn't automatically trigger a threshold for DRC and if we conditioned the special use permit to require DRC we'd be probably in a different discussion with County attorneys and School District Attorneys as to whether or not that would comply with the interlocal agreement that we already have on record for the sighting of a school can you quote that interlocal agreement and tell us exactly how it is set up between the school district lawy talking about it and um the county I cannot quote it no ma'am I I oh I know that and it really in all in all fairness and there are those in the room who've read it although to to to make sure that we're all on the same page that agreement was forgotten about by a lot of folks know it was AIG huh go ahead carry no it was there was a lot of conversation first of all there was no conversation about it then someone brought it up um I think and it was sort of someone who been on a board in cresa City quite frankly that brought it up because interlocal Agreements are not normally cataloged they're not like codified into ordinances that you pop up on the computer and a lot of times it has to do with who was around when it was entered and whether they remember it so someone remember that agreement I think the original agreement was like a 06 or 07 08 08 and everybody was looking at that agreement which was 16 or 18 pages long or something then I asked the school system to take a look to find find out if they had adopted any policies with reference to it and in doing that they found where the school system had adopted an updated version that was passed in 13 was it and then and it was and it was ratified by every municipality and governmental entity in the county and it was it cut out about 60% of the agreement maybe 70% what what that interlocal agreement basically does is it basically requires there to be a when there's going to be a school sighting it requires as the Implement of a committee called the pack committee Public School advisory committee I think is what it's called and there may be an extra letter in there I forgotten but Pac is what everybody's calling it and that committee it says how it's what it's comprised of and there's representatives from the county and the municipality where the school is to be cited and School Board representatives and and School staff and and then that committee is supposed to look at either one and it has Al and this is but it has alternative methods of moving forward on the one that's committee can come up with a site where they think the school would be but it also allows the district to submit only one site the district can submit one site and then that one site is forwarded to the Planning Commission where the school is to be cited and then you get the review of whether or not the the zoning and comp plan is appropriate for that School site and that's what it that's what it does there's no there's no power in that committee to say we're not going to build a school no power in that committee to say you can't build it here there's that committee is an advisory committee and its function is basically to check a box and admittedly the agreement wasn't known by I mean everybody's been talking about the school for a while there was Bond issues and nobody mentioned the and debate and a vote nobody mentioned the um that that inter local agreement and then when it was mentioned everybody relied upon and looked at the wrong one for a matter of time until he found the updated one and then we finally looked at the updated one it it is an advisory committee and whereas if the if the only option would have been to to ask the committee go find a school site which would have been substantially different than the process that has occurred I in my opinion there could be a huge problem but when it has the option of the of the board picking a site and saying this is the site we want you to look at pack uh and then the pack is to forward it to the school district is afford it to the planning agency of the jurisdiction where the site's located the PC is just it's it's U kind of intended to make sure boxes are checked and it was missed I mean there's no way I'm not it was missed thankfully I wasn't on board when it was missed but I might have missed it too I'm not telling you that I would wouldn't have but it it was missed well in a perfect that would be an appendix to our comprehensive plan yeah maybe so so so you know but anyway I um yeah I uh I think that the peace act probably at this point is a little bit off off the table I mean out of the out of the purview in my opinion um we have now we have after the fact uh both both sites were taken to the P act weren't they after the fact both Crescent City and and this site over here um and then quite frankly there's also if you're looking for some mitigation there are a lot of people who thought that synth that site had been a school maybe even since before zoning and I don't know about that so I I'm not going to say but it had been a school for a long long time it's been a school since the 80s if not well that's before the first comp plan so there were many people who just assumed it's been a school for all this time it's been compliant there's been nothing no one's raised any issues so it must be okay but again I I'm not excusing I agree that there should have the time that they assign those future land use and that that designation for that school I don't know that anybody would have planned tearing that one down and building something four or five times at larger yeah you know with the access issues that they have there yeah well I I understand and I understand it's not I understand there's room for opinions I'm I'm I'll never sit up here I don't believe I'll ever will sit up here and tell any board you can't do X you can do it but but you know whether it stands or not that's the question that always has to be answered I always appreciate your input yeah don't as my wife says I'm sorry you feel that way I bet she says that a lot too she [Laughter] does one of the things that we have to do is is when we move to to place of zoning designation or plan u a future land use designation we have to make sure that it is within the bounds and follows the comprehensive plan and the Land Development code and we have to look to staff to keep us on the straight and narrow with that um as far as the details that's going to have to go through neac with their their review process um we can't sit up here and review things that are still undeveloped that's going to we're just looking at the land as as Mr Holmes said so um followup sir CH couple of information on items questions from one of the audience um clarification the water line come from the south sorry my mistake coming from the south is an 8 in water line we are installing three new five hings onite we are proposing 176 parking spaces on site and asking another question we did perform a traffic study when traffic study was performed we'll be glad to provideed the information to the board it required we are working in an a second trafficking study for and they be at the intersection with State Road 20 we like I mentioned before we have a meeting with the next month and they determine what do we need to do if anything in there but traffic report it was performed and determine the trip generation of the school what it was there before and what is the Improvement requir thank you thank thank you sir any other yes Mr Prairie Madam chair I just like to mention uh that I think we all realize that this is an unusual application I can't recall ever having an application like this just come before us and so we are presented with some some novel and interesting uh concerns and will there be inconsistencies yes well just like everything we do usually results in an inconsistency to some degree but as I've encouraged the board to do in the past and I encourage youday today is to focus on the application and what the uh putham County School District is actually requesting and as Mr Mr Holmes pointed out it is a question of land use uh we're not here today to try and reinvent the whe um or try to tell the putam County School District how to build a school uh other entities will other entities already have looked at this and other entities will look at it again in the future as this process goes along but um I I have to agree with Mr Holmes that it all boils down to to what is our purview today and I agree with you madam chair what is our purview today and that obviously comes down to um have they met has has the applicant met the requirements uh for uh their application and and is it the proper use of this land but I don't know if I've answered Mr Morris's questions he asked some very insightful questions but right that's and and and and your statement there was we we up here to determine the you I mean the the zoning the use the future land use I mean that's that is the use and in this case more so than most we have more information than we typically do about what the use is going to be we know what they're going to do you can get on the on the internet and look up the plans for what they're going to do out there so uh whereas most of the decisions we make we have a vague idea of how they're going to be used or we have a we have a homeowner coming in here telling they're going to make office space or whatever it is we have way more information on the use of this property in this case um in my opinion is again this is all my opinion but in this case I feel like we have way more information than we do on most other cases and that's exactly what all these questions that I posed and we have semi addressed in our agenda packet that's those all relate to the use of what they're going to do out there so um I'm just trying to get us to position we're we're we're we're compliant but we also have enough oversight that some of this stuff doesn't fall through the cracks well in a normal zoning cases we don't even know what they're going to do uh they don't put on the application what what the purpose of that resoning is you don't know what they're going to do but I do because I've seen the internet page you know what I mean they're going to build a we know student we know about this particular application because it's a very big public information piece but most applicants that come before us just like I I agree I agree with your I think you're rewarding what I'm saying is we we are addressing a use but we have been given more information than normal on this and while yeah it that excess information may not work may not be beneficial to somebody that's given us the information it's still information we've been given to solve this problem right and basically what we have to look at is what staff has given us and what our code says and what our comprehensive plan says Mr Matthews I want to clarify something um I'm in in no way predetermined how I feel about this that's where I'm coming from is from a position of what the comp plan says what the application requested what the Land Development code provides this is not the Forum to discuss the details about how they're going to use their land that Forum lies with the Board of Education it lies with Pac it lies with neac is this goes forward it lies with the State Department of Education Representatives but it doesn't lie with this board we're voting on The zoning we're voting on The zoning as public facility and we know that they're wanting public facility for a school building that's really is well in most absolutely and but I don't mean to offend you and say you're wrong because you're not I'm not I'm not stating that're st's point this circus anyway we're just at St that's up it's a public hearing and we are required to hold a public hearing and we do take input from the public and we still have someone yet left left to speak on this but the details things that are down buried in the weeds those are things that are going to ultimately rest on the shoulders of the Board of Education and if they make a mistake who's going to have to pay for that the citizens will ultimately you're right but that is going to be the onus of that is going to rest with the Board of Education with the superintendent he's he's in a tough position as someone doing public construction of this magnitude he's got to make sure he dots every T and Crosses or dots every ey and Crosses every T but that's what he does when he goes before neac that's not a simple process State plans review is rigid that's kind of been the point of my questions too is because the direction I want to go is going to provide more oversight which will allow more eyes to look at it which will allow well additional additional additional help in the on the planning side of it so that they don't end up with something wrong unfortunately school projects have to go over through the state process that's established Madam chair can can I interrupt real quick um yes ma'am so if we're going to have um individuals from the audience I need them to talk on the mic record so we need them to come back up if we're going to have dialogue with them or what's going to happen with that just so we have it all on the record because it's I'm Sor very hard to I just initiated that I understand I I didn't want to interrupt it but I I do need it to be on the record for us please yes sir thank you I appreciate that um at this time I would like to move on to the next speaker who is asked to come up and talk to us and that is Tim howling I probably didn't say that right no I'm sure good afternoon my name is Tim Hotel telling okay from San Mato you have the record um is that 105 Riv sideway lovely San moo overlooking Buzzard Island owned by the state and ignored by the state and washing into the river but you don't want to hear about that yeah we're here for something else okay um there's couple things that I heard elsewhere that I didn't hear anything here that I think May relate to uh the actual use um in the other meeting there was as as was mentioned conversation about the I'm guessing there's ditches alongside the road and there's not even enough room or right away that they can put a sidewalk in uh which seemed to me to be land use um all of that there was a bunch of neighbors that got their their yards flooded out because of a dewatering process which I'm without any familiarity with it but uh there were pictures on the the media of extensive water stacked up part of it because the coverts and they're going to fix the CTS and rah rah but my question always came where did all this water come from and is that an issue today I heard here 60,000 square foot of uh Wetlands but I didn't see anything identifying where in this parcel and the y4 and uh whether that's prohibitive uh which goes back to if you got ditches alongside roads maybe you got a lot of water that comes running in and out and it may be just simply a complication for developers but um just like the traffic studies I was really looking forward to getting an eyeball on them and I think it would be really advantageous at least to me for public records request to to to have those studies as part of your package that would be available for U public records those records lay with the school board so your your public information request would go to the Board of Education because that's their they have ownership of those records we don't I thought I heard you say that it was already part of your package there was just it's been done and they've said they have done those studies and you haven't seen them no we don't see that because we're just looking at the land I don't know we haven't seen those but if you I just I I don't want to recircle it I was just but if you would like to see any of those detailed information pieces okay well request them from the board of I thought I heard you say that you had seen them and no we have not seen them and and that it was already accepted in any event back to my point 60,000 square foot of of wetlands and neighbors yards that are that are flooded and ditches that you can't have uh sidewalks to allow students to safely walk as was presented I don't know at at the uh thing the students can't safely exit the school because of that and I was just hoping to hear more about that Jennifer could you bring that map up that shows the wetlands again the wetlands there's about an acre of wetlands in the southwest corner of the parcel and the the the existing uh parking lot that was there was built around it so they didn't encroach in the wetlands I mean I'm I'm I'm I'm comfortable with with the wetlands on there it's not like it's strung all over the property or anything that's no it's it's one they they address it and the the the previous parking lot was built around it and they haven't encroached on it thus far I think the drainage issue is probably coming from the site work there they haven't developed their drainage yet and so through the course of construction those those things are going to those things are going to be incurred by the neighbors you know yeah it's it's stuff they can mitigate but um at the onset of land clearing and demolition there I've been in this business a long time and you you encounter that so I don't think that portion of it is is uh out of whack and when that School site was originally developed they weren't doing a lot of berry drainage and anything like that well yeah what 16 17 Acres there and they only had about uh two acres of coverage if that so um yeah they've had had a lot of open open land there to dissipate that and absorb it yep is there anyone else who would like to speak please please come forward state your name and address or you can give me your card that would be even better thank you um my name is Ernie SX I live on 374 Horseman Club Road Paca Florida 32177 um so I wrote the speech before I came in just off the cuff from my own opinions and comments some of this has changed some of that you've already addressed and this may not be the best forum for me to bring it up and I appreciate you let me know that but I still want to say it just because of the zoning changes Mr Morris you brought up a lot of good questions some I've had I know Mr Matthews has had so I kind of just want to go from there if that's okay so first off thank you um I want to thank Reed Matthews for posting about the time of this meeting thankfully I was able to get work off to attend I know there's been a lot of public discussions about this site I don't pretend to have a full grasp about the rules legal require requirements behind it especially from the maps and all stuff y'all been quoting I'm just here to kind of give my opinion to someone who lives there my concern stems from a lot of the issues I know other residents have raised I know you Mr Morris have raised them as well most of about the increase of traffic the lack of planning to accommodate such and my concern that this project may just be rubber stamped for the cause of we need new schools and more things will fall through the cracks I agree new schools are needed but in trying to Reach This goal I do not want the board or commission rushing to approve it without considering the long-term impact this may have for those living there this stretch of road is busy of traffic as two major highways border it along with many homes I know the issue of Kelly Smith was brought up I drive by all the time trying to get to places I'm worried about the same thing on that stretch of road that I drive through fairly regularly we should not rush to approve this simply to appease the school board's timeline as due diligence over this would be in the best interest of all both the tax payers the county and the school board itself so like I said I know some of this has already been Beat to Death like a dead horse I don't mean to do that I just that's kind of my opinion as someone who lived there and now that I know that there may be a better Forum to address that that's where I'll kind of go with that but I know at the end of the day you're going to make your recommendation the county is going to make their recommendation then the powers that be they goes to the wheels so I appreciate you give me the time to be heard and I hope you will take some of that into consideration in your decision thank you Mr silox I'd like to ask a question of our attorney I know this has been asked and raised and talked about what can we legally do other than approve or not approve this application Madam chair I'm looking at section 45 uh -9 uh 921 which falls under uh public boards and in particular I'm looking for uh or I'm looking at the uh Planning Commission if I can find it anyway one of the one of the things that that our code points out is that our our responsibility as board as the board is to reach decisions it's decide issues and if we cannot decide an issue and we vote something down we're supposed to say why we're supposed to give a a logical explanation of why we can't do it uh um the other thing that we have in our code is that our meetings are governed by the uh Robert's Rules of Order and of course in Robert's Rules of Order is is uh it's not spelled out in our code but it says that's what governs us but as you well know Roberts rules rules of order also has a provision for tabling motions or applications so if you're asking me what you can do well those are two things you can vote on it and uh or it can be tabled although it's been a while since I've seen anything tabled um but uh that's basically your options and I'm going to ask staff either Mr Helms or Mr Baker um sorry Jennifer I don't mean to cut you out over there um Madam chairman yes may speak here I've been listening now for almost an hour uh we are here as an advisory board on the use of the land that's understandable I think by every one of the board members we've got a very unusual situation which I've never seen before and I've been sitting here almost nine years I've been in situations like this before on different cities that I've been involved with and probably one of the only things I could suggest is you have a school board that wants this project approved we as a Planning Commission Advisory Board hate to see something go where we don't have any control at all once we give the blessing on it to go nobody in this county is going to have any more advisory other than they're going to go their way the way they want to go basically the county is out of it from what I understand what I would suggest the school board that is present here representatives are here you've heard some very logical objections from people who actually have been around who are in the construction industry but more so than that you've heard some some residents that are going to live in an area where now there is a school it's an outdated thing and it's going to be replaced by something three or four times the size of what was there in in before so to say it's a school and it's a school two different situations what I'm going to suggest is number one if the school board is trying to get this thing through and we have some exceptions up here this thing was presented right now I couldn't go for it there's too many questions and too many valid concerns that in my opinion are very very valid reasons we should table this to a Time certain to give the school board a chance to come back with a better plan more explaining about traffic flow pedestrian flow parking the things that were raised right here water flow get it all out in the open if you can come back with a presentation give it 30 60 or 90 days and bring it back to us with some of these questions answered and I think you'll get a whole lot of different re response from what you're seeing here on our board that would be my suggestion to table and how would can I have can I can I say I'm going to ask Mr just something first I think we've got to even tabling something are we tabling it because it does not follow the comprehensive plan or landine development code a table is in our bra Rules of Order right attorney brought that up it's one of the things you can do it is one of the things we can do I have to one of the things you can do when you have a situation where we've got mixed opinions up here we don't know what we want to do some of us will say no some of us will say yes but there's enough doubt that logic would say a lot of the questions that were brought up by the board and by the residence are valid and if that could be accomplished with a table a little bit more time to bring something back that we may not still have overall control but at least from the planning stage forward it solves some of the problems that were brought up by us I I I can I say something I agree I I agree with Madam chair in that we are here to decide on the question of zoning not to have the indepth review PL review of the site and all that um what we need to do and this this was my whole uh purpose about asking about DRC and a special use permit was if we deny if we deny this motion today the path forward for the district the school district be to would be twofold it would be number one apply for a special use permit and number two call attorneys and find out if that is their legit way to go remember we act as an advisory body to the board of County Commissioners well they have the final decision I'm sorry I'm making the assumption that the board of County Commissioners follows our our opinion we never know what they're going we never know that they are well involved with parts of the school district that we may or may not know about so um so that my point is assume with the assumption that the district takes what we recommend here today and we recommend denial of the zoning change it will trigger them to in order to proceed to to develop a special to apply for a special use permit that is that is their path forward no sir that is not their path forward their path forward is to then go to the board of County Commissioners with the very same planning very same proposition they came to us with the very same presentation our presentation will be the same from staff at the board of County Commission meeting I started my statement off is with the assumption that the County Commissioners right take our that was that was the purpose of my statement was assuming that the county Commissioners follow our lead on that meaning it goes to the next board they say we recommend the same thing that this board recommends then the next step would be application for a special use permit that I mean that's just the path that they've laid out that's one path they can take we got to remember they've already done a lot of work on that site they've spent a lot of money on that site because I built a house unpermitted on a property doesn't mean that I have to avoid the rules like right this this property to build a school does not require a building permit the school was already there we're not we're not talking we're not talking about building we're talking we're talking about zoning we're talking about zoning there's two separate issues when you build a house when I build a house as a general contractor when I build a house there's multiple components to it there is a zoning component where I go and say I'm going to build on this property the zoning and zoning office says yes it's compliant with the zoning and intent of use of the property and then I have I go to the building department and I a building permits which says yes you can you can build a building with this specifications I'm not talking about the specifications of the physical construction of that I'm talking about the zoning clearance what what which in effect of a single family residence would be zoning clearance we are talking about zoning clearance and the use of the property today the Avenues forward are either we rezone it to what they want then it's then it takes it out of our hands they deal with everything we don't ever get to touch it again assuming that this is assuming that the board of County Commissioners takes our recommendation and doesn't deny it even after we recommend if we recommend approval then we we've washed our hands completely we there's no more involvement however if we feel that what's been presented here today is not consistent with how that property should be used then we should recommend denial of the zoning change and force the either the Commissioners to say we don't agree with you or School Board go get a special use permit I mean that's that's the direction I and we we accept that I'm going to make one more statement and then I'm going to get you all in if you want to and I'll bring Mr Holmes back up we're dealing with another entity in our County that has great Authority not quite the authority that the board of County Commissioners has but the Board of Education the school board the district has a lot of authority they are our partner in governmental services in putham County at one point or another we as an entity have got to decide whether or not we trust them to do the right thing with the money that has been allocated through a bond issue and given them the authority to spend that money are we going to trust them to do it right or are we going to throw up a roadblock cost them more money in delays on their project make them jump through more Hoops or send something to the County Commission that makes us look stupid which it could that's just my opinion and i' said it or are we going to do our job and vote on the zoning and then send that to the County Commission and let them have the next say but there is an element of trust that has to exist between interlocal agencies and that's just there we all I mean the county approved the electorate of this County approved a bond issue and thereby gave the Board of Education the authority to spend that money so I'm out I'm not going to say anything else I'll moderate the meeting is there any other Mr Holmes did you have one other thing you wanted to say yes ma'am I appreciate you giv the opportunity sincerely because I know you don't have to I've spoken you're right but no I go ahead you started that off well you're right um so Mr Morris I'll say one thing for you and this is what I would say to a judge you're right you reone this and the actual site development is taken out of your hands but guess what that's what your legislature said the process is to be the spirit and intent of the statute does exist exactly what you said it takes School development out of the hands of the local zoning agencies as I've told a whole lot of juries over a whole lot of years you may not like the law but sooner or later a judge is going to say we're going to follow it you've got a in my opinion an aberration in your code an anomaly that you're right you're correct in saying might provide an alternate path for the school district if they don't want to take advantage of the path that the legislature has given them it's not in everybody's code everybody doesn't have a code that says you can put schools in agriculture by special exception you happen to have one I have a hard time believing and this is just me that a judge is going to say that this school district is required to take that alternative path when the State of Florida says they don't have to State of Florida says they get zoning in accord with the rules and the laws that apply and then neif a platform the state established in their infinite wisdom to safeguard the interests of all F affected that that NE effect then takes over so from my perspective I would simply tell you that in my opinion the the spirit the letter of the law is pretty clear the local agency only has the zoning Authority when it comes to a school and you're there's nothing in your zoning Cod and if there is you can tell me right now that says that you have a right to ask for a site plan specific plans as to holding patterns uh traff traffic Lanes all of that stuff in your zoning code uh special exception you bet PUD absolutely but not zoning so from my perspective here's what we're I'm going to tell you if you're going to table this I'm simply going to ask you to State the basis of your table and what you're tabling at for and then somebody can decide whether or not what you're asking for is something any applicant for zoning is required to give as a condition of you considering a zoning request that's that's a pretty fair request you're going to table it and say you want all sorts of information from the school board before you'll consider there Zing request just state it clearly so that somebody else can decide whether or not you have the right to ask for that as a condition of considering a zoning request and if you're going to vote it up fine if you're going to vote it down whatever you decide you're going to do but tabling it for 60 or 90 days that's that's as I said if you do that then please just specify what information it is that you are asking to be provided within that 60 or 90 days that somebody can decide whether or not you have the right to ask for that I I agree with I agree with you 100% on that I don't I don't think I think we have plenty of information to make our zoning decision here today so I agree with you with the on the portion of tabling it would cause a lot more work for both parties what I don't necessarily agree with is although the intent of the statute is clear in your mind I find it I would find it hard to believe and I'm not the attorney here but I would find it hard to believe that in the in the the code that we go by the Land Development code and the ordinances and the uh interlocal agreements that are set I would find it hard to believe that there's not language in there that's statutory in nature that would allow the county to be involved with something that's going to affect a piece of property well beyond just the piece of property that the that the district's building on so you're basically saying that a county could put something in its code to Trump State Statute because no you are because to take the to take your point to it logical extension a county could then say okay we understand the state has said that we don't get to review school plans but we're going to pass something in our particular zoning code that says that we do whether it be by special exception or put or whatever and we Trump State Statute and I'll take that bet again I'm not the attorney but so you you you I know I know I know but so you would you would say that in the statutory language there is nothing there that would make the district whether through code or ordinance or interlocal agreement have to go in excess of we get to say what we're doing on our own property I I don't know if I can I don't know if the phraseology of your question is one that I follow I I believe that if State Statute I believe and this is just me believe I've already acknowledged even sometimes the way I the way I understood you was one person at a time the way I understood you was and let me make sure that I'm understanding this correctly the way we're not going to debate this right now but let's not a debate information that's going to affect my deis I don't consider a debate either I well I I I think State Statute preempts I'm I'm asking that if if your position on the the statutory language of how the school district uh conduct itself building and zoning and development wise is so specific that it excludes municipalities other than the the district I mean entities other than the school district so so so what I would be saying is so you're saying that they don't have to involve water management in their decision they don't have to involve D never said that water man mad chair Madam chair Madam chair can I interrupt for a pleas and and I don't mean this Wards anybody I believe we need to we bring figure out where we're going with public comment and then we stop that there I'm not against any or I just want to make sure we Robert rules we're going to draw this to a conclusion but one thing I'm going to say is in every section of our codes it says we ascribe to State Statute and I I'm not seeing this as any kind of challenge I enjoy discussion with jus it is my position that state statute preempts and I will give you this and I don't consider myself the all being expert went but when you tell me one other area of the law where the state says you don't have to get a building permit from the local jurisdiction to build something because we're going to say that this entity over here is going to govern all building permits for this type of construction I I will give you an example on that all right an agricultural exemption an agricultural exemption by State Statute in the building code says you don't have to pull a permit for the structures and components of but you do have to go through zoning which is perfect perfect example exactly which is what we're doing here today it is but yeah I'll I'll leave it at that okay thank you thanks is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak either for or against this particular application I wanted on record that I still love Don Holmes we all do we can help ourselves um if there's not anyone else in the audience be before we conclude this I have just one comment I'd like to certainly bring out first of all as I know our audience is aware and our board is aware I'm I'm not I'm I'm here to advise the board I don't have a I don't have a dog in the fight or anything like that but I'd like to point out that that during this discussion we've heard the phrase fall through the cracks not only from some of our audience members but we've heard it from members of our board and I'm not exactly sure in this case exactly what that means means fall through the cracks um on the question in front of us the zoning question has not fallen through the cracks the zoning question has been hashed out here uh in detail for hour and that is what we're here to decide is the zoning question um as far as things falling through the cracks I don't know exactly what you're talking about but I have to think back and ask the board to consider what evidence have you heard that something is falling through the cracks what evidence have you heard that the school district has done something uh adverse to us m to the board making a decision about land use I'm not sure that and that is up for our board members to determine but there must be something there uh as opposed to simply just being a feeling or your Vining something out of thin air we need to have reason Prevail here today I'd ask once again that our board members please look carefully at why we are here what the issue is before us and with that I will conclude M thank you Mr Perry at this point I'm closing the public portion of the meeting and bringing this back to the board I think we've had a lot of discussion we can certainly have more but let's not beat this horse anymore if if we've said it let's not say it again uh Mr Hodge Mr Frolic you have not spoken Justin was doing a good job I didn't I didn't agree with the consultant about the forced for Force main I know the I was on a city commission when we redid the crest City High School and they put a 4in force main but that Force main goes a long way yeah that's a couple I would say that if they would only put a 2 in they must be dumping into something else that would go to the Sewer site which is probably 8 10 12 Ines probably somewhere where they're going to connect cuz they're not going to run a 2in force main all the way to the LA of sewer system so that was only no big deal that actually wasn't up to us no no we don't care whether the water n if it don't work they got to fix it somebody somebody just got to fix it Z I'm ready to make a motion I will accept that motion I move we recommend that the board accounting Commissioners approve rezoning RZ Rez 24- 00003 as is consistent with the goals objectives and policies of the putam county comprehensive plan I have a proper motion from Mr Frolic do I hear a second I have a second for Mr Hodes is there any further discussion hearing none I'm going to call for the vote we're going to do a roll call vote Stanley yes Joy yes I vote Yes Tom no Justin no okay it's 5 to three to recommend to the board of County Commissioners that this zoning request be approved and that um from my position God bless you mam shair that's 32 vote 32 you said five 32 I'm sorry 32 total of five three to take thank you I know your shoulders are wide because this is not your first rodeo public construction is never fun I've done it many times and I don't wish you any ill win but I'm glad I'm not in your shoes all right Mr mcmanis you all are up bre do we need to take a quick yes ma'am I would just like a two-minute break pleas five five minutes are fine five okay e e e e e e e e e e e e dress I appreciate the opportunity to come up here and speak speak to you give you a little awareness brief about the Pine Castle range complex uh once again my name is Don Heaton I'm the director of the Navy's Pine Castle let's cut out the conversation please sorry thank you all right go right ahead Mr Heaton yeah thank you ma'am yeah first slide I'd like to talk about is a the overview of the Pine Castle range complex if you're looking at the map uh you you can see there there's a Rodman range it's up there to the north about Central of the image is is a Lake George range and and and at the bottom there's a Pine Castle range those are the three independent geographically separated ranges that make up the Pine Castle range complex and and that range complex extends uh to putam County Valia County uh Lake County and Maran County uh this range complex has been been in use but for National Defense since the early' 40s way back in World War II start of World War II uh Lake Bryant bomy and Gunnery Range was established in the vicinity of where the existing Pine Castle bombing range is at uh back then the war department and the Army Air Force acquired 4,587 acres and utilized that it was a critical training space for our National Defense in in World War II uh after World War II got over they relinquished that land back to the forest service and if you're looking at the map you can see in the outlines in green will show the Ocala National Forest that's a 2 186,000 acre federal government mostly federal government property Parcels there is some privately owned Parcels in there that's part of putam County and Maran County and and Lake County and such but uh but in 1951 the the Navy approached the the forest services and said we would like to establish the Pine Castle bombing range and and build this complex up uh they they started training at Lake George uh uh and Pine Castle uh in in in the ' 50s and and later on required uh the Rodman range in in 1961 if you look at the map in the in the upper right corner you you'll see a a zoomed out view of where the okal national forest is putam county is and and and you'll see strategically it's located in the vicinity to the Atlantic Ocean and that's where our Navy's Atlantic Fleet carrier strike groups will be operating out of it provides a unique environment unlike any that we have in the the entire United States for a Navy to project power from their carrier strike groups to to build up the weapons offshore you know whe whether it be an inert bomb whether it be a mind shape or whether it be a live high explosive bomb and and and build them and launch an aircraft uh uh from that aircraft carrier come into the airspace now now as we can see geographically on the land there's a lot of different counties represented in here but they use restricted and special use airospace Above So collectively if we're training at Pine Castle bombing we we're still flying across uh you know the the areas in uh putb County uh but uh it's uh very very very important for Readiness uh and and you know the Navy doesn't have any place like that uh really Nationwide but for the Atlantic Fleet that is the one One Stop only stop place to do that uh and they've been using it continuous since 1951 are those the only ranges in that that picture that blown up picture of Florida there are those the only three in that picture or do you guys have ranges in addition to those three uh for Central Florida that that's that's all that's all the Navy has yeah the Air Force has Avon Park further south and then egland also yeah but that's more of a test range go Air Force yeah yeah I'll for [Laughter] that now other branches of the service do use those ranges don't they they do yeah yeah the Navy the Navy and we are Nation we fight jointly with all the other Department of Defense services so so this complex because it has a water range it it it has the Rodman range and then it has the Pine Castle range all uniquely differently but but able to allow all of our Nations to fight together to include uh people on the ground close air support when we have joint terminal attack controllers Special Forces op op op people including our nation's uh NATO allies uh we will join up with them and and and train with them on the ground calling strikes in from Power projected aircraft launch from the aircraft carriers so very unique environment to do all of that you know and and and to get a little bit of flexible type of training we can have some water training thereby uh so the complex as a whole uh is is very unique and very very uh valuable and it's been in use uh you like I said continually by uh the war department Department of Defense since the early 40s and the Navy since 1951 and and it's it's something that uh that we would ask you know that uh you would partner with us to to preserve those uh capabilities uh that that that we treasure so much for the defense of our nation next slide uh we're looking at the Rodman range that's uh uh very very close uh to to putham County it's surrounded by putham County if you look at the first picture uh you can see the Rodman bomb Target the the outlines of the parcel uh in relations to the Rodman Reservoir you know and AC cross Florida Barge Canal going uh to the north of it the the lower boundary of the Old aaaha River how it flowed that that is a southern boundary of of the uh uh Rodman bombing Target there that's in putam County we're we're surrounded by Caravel wildlife Management Area uh in there the center picture shows a photograph of looking at what the robin bombing range looks like you can make out a a little village Target in there and there's a couple of towers uh uh there that we have instrumentation at so we have cameras and scoring systems and microwave video equipment so we're able to uh project all that stuff back to a range Operation Center where you know is basically uh uh we operate and communicate with all Pilots at that one place and and that location is much further south near the Pine Castle bombing range over to the right uh uh you can see where there's uh some helicopter landing zones that's a that's a valuable training space uh in there for helicopters some of them are confined but various configurations uh uh that helicopters can practice Landings so sometimes they they'll do some pilot rescues in particular if they want a wet lands environment uh you have a down pilot it's very important to be able to train to to get that pilot out of Harm's Way uh and and and Rodman provides that an environment for that yeah looking at the uh the next slide uh we're looking at Lake George range that's also nearby uh uh putam County uh the Navy uh has a 2x7 mile use area uh there uh you that that the in U Lake George and you can see uh dotted in red are the various uh splash down targets uh over to the east uh uh you can make out there's is a 9M Point sight and a Pine Island sight uh at that range we also have some cameras in a sheltered cab uh in the tower focused at all those splash down points uh the picture you see of that black and white uh marker we we called out a placard and and a camera would be looking at that from the tower they would see a placard in the water that would be representative very similar to a Gun Site you know if you're looking down to barrel of a gun you got a gun sight beyond that is where you're Target well beyond that uh it would be a splash down point you know if you're doing Airborne Maritime uh mx's and uh and and they they execute some of them uh during the carrier strike group you know you have carrier off the coast you if that is a training requirement we need the capability for for to launch some f88 Hornets off there real quick and lay down some mine patterns with that nothing high explosive is ever dropped there at Lake George's all uh basically concrete filled uh practice type inert bombs out there same with Rodman you know Rodman we we do not do any high explosive boming just very basic uh uh uh practice type thing the big thing with Robin is the unique thing is is that type of environment for helicopter landing zones how do you control entry on on the uh water site there uh how do we do how do you control entry how do you how do you manage when you guys are going to use that facility that there's nobody in what we got uh we if we're expecting some U activities out there the the boats are go they're going to be dropping some uh uh mine shapes out there uh we will rent some boats over there in Aster and and we'll go there in advance uh of of of the of the EV event and with some signs showing the code of fil Rigs and you know asking the people uh you know if if they happen to be in that area to depart from that area now now there's also some posted warning signs uh uh all along the the Four Points of that of that image that you see the boundaries and and there's one in the in the middle of that uh on the western side uh you know doing that uh there's some Zoom surveillance cameras that are in that uh Tower there that's over there at at 9mile point in Pine Island that can zoom in and check for a a any types of boating traffic the reason we do this prior to an fa18 Hornet event is is they're coming off a carrier they've only got maybe 20 minutes of fuel you know so we want to make sure you know that that it's uh that that the range is not fou prior to that uh if there's some aircraft that has a lot more types of fuel uh you know then then it wouldn't require that but in the end it's up to the Pilot's discretion we we put safety uh on on Pilots to make sure that are is clear before they would uh release a mine shaper or a weapon um like George provides an outstanding place for helicopters to uh uh you do some electronic warfare countermeasure training uh we we'll have some electronic warfare emitters sometimes at Rodman uh but but a lot of times at Emile point on the uh Eastern side of Lake George so so an enemy threat emitter will will Enga engage an aircraft or a helicopter and and they can deploy some flares you know so so lately that's been a lot of our training has been done on Lake George supporting some flare use and going to the the last slide is the Pine Castle uh uh uh impact range and and that that is the range that's mostly utilized in our range complex uh uh it's uh if you're looking at the image uh it looks it's sand and and and it provides a very unique environment there again different from Rodman uh that that'll allow our our fighting forces to train to you know in a particular of helicop when they do some some uh L pilot rescues and searching for down Pilots we can set up some opposition Force but unlike Rodman uh we we can give them a brown out uh something something very unique and there's not many ranges uh you know that that we have that can do that but but but that that that is a very valuable training resource for our P to train to uh and and they get that at Pine Castle uh but it is the only uh range in a Range complex uh uh uh that that does have high explosive bomb use and and and you know we can accept up to 2,000 lbs live high explosive bomb uh there at Pine Castle for the most part uh they don't do too many of those big ones most of them are 500 or 1,000 pounds uh but when they do train and and drop the weapons at Pine Castle they they are they are flying over the entire range complex airspace some of their Ingress and erass routes depending on where that aircraft carrier is is is where their flight paths are going to be prior to to releasing that live weapon over the uh Pine Castle bombing range complex uh uh as I said before the uh we we've used the Pine Castle bombing range continuous since 1951 uh last year we we entered into another term special use permit uh with the US Department of agricultural Forest Service uh for 30 30 more use yeah uh 30 more years of use and um we're coming to a conclusion uh to to the ring indoctrination and and and operations brief and I'd like to turn it over to mark mcmanis thank you okay I'm going to talk about first the range air Installation compatible use Zone this is an environmental assessment conducted under the National Environmental Protection act 2017 this one came out uh it subseed it it it succeeded the 2010 study and Incorporated uh some DOD guidance on recommendations I'm using that word again recommendations on land use around the range to due to the air to ground ordinance and the noise so local municipalities in every range uses a similar construct across the country uh can incorporate and understand how the range will impact the local residents so as I start going through I'm going to get with the end in end in mind you have this right here this stoplight chart is the Navy's recommendations on noise and the compatible use Zone based on ordinance and aircraft operations so as I go through them I'd recommend just take a look at this so you have an idea of what the Navy's view is on what the compatible use is in these different zones so the first range compatibility Zone one rcz one this is the spot where ordinance is hitting the ground things are falling out of the sky and hitting the ground here in putam County you have Rodman range and that is completely contained within the federal property at Rodman uh at Lake George that the range itself is not in putam County but when I get to rcz 2 you will see about that Pine Castle impact down in Maran County not only has the range area itself but the shrapnel the weapons danger zone and that's a pretty large area you have that blow up in your uh you have the big Maps you you can see what the Pine Castle impact is though it doesn't impact putam County so I'm not going to discuss it too much range compatibility Zone 2 this is the airspace where the aircraft is on Final to attack a Target it's got ordinance on board the master arm switch is turned on the only thing that's keeping the ordinance on the aircraft is the pilot has not hit the button yet um so it could be somewhere between when they enter rcz 2 somewhere between 60 and 90 seconds before that ordinance is falling off the aircraft based on the speed the altitude and the ordinance delivery profile um as you can see here for rcz 2 about 16,000 acres are in rcz 2 from Lake George in putam county and about 3,000 are in Rodman range and I'll pull up that map so that accounts for about 3.5% of the land area for putam County um and you can see the predominant land use for that area those are the two areas you can see see that's the runin line for Rodman that kind of northwest southeast runin line and then Lake George range and the reason Lake George range is kind of that shape is a lot of aircraft may go from Pine Castle impact to engage a threat like an air-to-air threat and then continue and maneuver to the North and then turn right to engage the Lake George range um as a helicopter pilot Rodman I've landed there lots of search and rescue training lots of night vision goggle helicopter training in that area uh we'll have they'll fly a a survivor in off the carrier we'll drive them down there put them in there the helicopters will launch off they will have F-18 Hornets riding shotgun for them they'll have e2s in the air doing the command and control they will go in we'll have a ground force everyone's firing blanks but there's a pretty involved process for a combat rescue for Lake George um I've engaged with notional uh small boats a small boat threat trying to protect the aircraft carrier from a small boat it was a navy boat um I was told do not ditch in the water because of the Gators but um we also would use flares uh 3,000 degree magnesium the uh Department of interior the forest service would prefer we not do that over the forest uh that would cause a problem so we do it over Lake George um I don't know if you've noticed China Taiwan uh the sea Battle is being war game out um we're anticipating an uptick in Lake George operations over the next few years as the Navy starts to concentrate more from a gwatt mentality Afghanistan Iraq Overland threat to a more sea threat as we consider the threat posed by China that is just Mark mcmanus' opinion rcz 3 this is the airspace where aircraft are maneuvering they're not authorized supersonic flight however they will be operating down as low as 500t uh th000 ft over homes and they will be maneuvering either to a target from a Target or they could be an adversary flight and they're getting into airto a typically the airto a flight airto a fight will happen above 10,000 ft so in case a pilot gets disoriented there's opportunity for him to pull out um you can see for rcz 3 when you look at the compatible use two single dwelling units per acre and I also look and it covers 32% of putam County so while I will be here and say the recommendation for the Navy is any property inside rcz 3 should be no more than two single family dwelling UNS per acre for residential commercial is okay um I'm also realistic to say that it it's ridiculous for the Navy to expect putam County to restrict a third of the county so while I'll say that's my recommendation um I understand reality rcz 2 and RC one uh you can expect me to put up more of a fight but once again it's the Navy's recommendation and you can see the aage based on the uh the 2007 2017 study uh when the study was started in 2014 uh they came down uh the contractors uh in uh conducted meetings with all the counties that were involved and provided a copy um I've been working with Zach about uh getting the gis overlays available to putam County so we fored it down here you can see rcz 3 this is basically all the airspace that the FAA reserves for the Navy over Pine Castle range uh to the southeast of that you start getting into NASA's airspace um there have been situations when NASA has scrubbed a launch and wanted to move the launch to a time when we had a carrier strike group uh the Navy said no it went up to DC I will just say that if the Navy can say no to Elon Musk we obviously have strong standing in DC uh NASA had to reschedule their space launch because we had to carry a strike group um the next one's coming up is this summer um this is the only place on the East Coast where an aircraft carrier they can as Don said they assemble the bomb on the ship load it up on the plane the plane comes and drops it and we can score it this is the only place this is happening on the East Coast for all our carriers um I'm going to talk about noise just a little bit it's not really a Factor Maran County it's it's a much bigger issue um just to give you a couple ideas when a couple context when we talk about noise we talk about a day night average so that would be the average noise over a 24-hour period if an aircraft flight happens at night we count it twice because we realize the disturbance is much greater for a nighttime flight 30 DB is a whisper 50 DB is the laser printer in your office 60 DB is a normal conversation an f8 Hornet on the runway getting ready to take off is about 140 DB so as you look at these numbers here you get an idea of the noise level that the people will experience over a daily basis for putam anything under 65 is considered low noise and not a factor um I also realize that if a Hornets flying over your house at 500 ft that's a concern as the person that answers the noise complaints I respond to all of them but um just as we look at it the high noise areas at Rodman are contained completely on federal property so that should not be an issue for Lake George um the areas to the north as we get into putham County as you can see at the North End of Lake George that is uh the 55 DB uh line so it's a minor annoyance especially if we're flying it a lot or if we're flying at night I realize the helicopters the  sound uh because we'll be doing multiple pass around a hornet should be a uh maybe there for 20 seconds a helicopter might be there for an hour that is definitely a disturbance but over the course of the whole day that's about the noise level you can expect at Lake George so uh we would like to on behalf of the commanding officer of Pine Castle range uh I'm going to work with Zach uh offer you all an opportunity to come visit Pine Castle come see where Don Works he can talk uh talk you through everything show you everything firsthand uh we had Lake County out the other day we had some f-15s on uh on the Range and they got a couple flybys and they got to see aircraft maneuvering on the Range itself so um I'll work with Zach so if you'd all like to come that would be great um and other than that pening your questions I think you guys are awesome thank you we appreciate what what y do it's the sound of Freedom every time they fly over and we appreciate it is not Super Sonic scar us to death sometimes on the aaaha at night well I bet they do I hear them quite frequently in Lake KO which is northeast of Lake George and I also see them dog fighting you know 10,000 ft um I had an occasion to be on my back in my driveway a year ago yes and I heard them and I looked up and they were three or four of them flying in you know PR practicing their dog fighting skills but I hear them quite frequently there flying over but you know I just know that you all are preparing for something or practicing for something and so I've heard them all my life you know uh to commissioner Mar so uh it was the air force that did the sonic boom so it's not my fault uh with actually it was Fang was it at Florida Air National Guard it's choppers that is that's Air Force maam at the end of the day they're Air Force jets um I will say that uh with the the Fang moving to the f35s um you can expect probably some f35s the study in 2017 Incorporated the F-35 uh sound profile we had them operating at any shville in January we got about three noise complaints a day Bing is Florida Air National Guard so um when when they transition to the F35 you can expect the noise level of an individual aircraft to take up um that's just the aircraft itself there's not much we can do about that um but they typically if they're the Air Force if the Air National Guard is dropping ordinance they tend to go down to Avon Park if they're doing air-to-air stuff like the f-15s they will it's a shorter drive to us so they'll come to our house well we appreciate what you do and we appreciate I particularly appreciate your being here I wish we could have had you here when we did the uh comprehensive plan but the time will come when that will get amended in about five years and or reviewed in about five years and hopefully you'll be on board for that yes ma'am look forward to it okay thank you thank you thank you very much for being here uh any questions of either one of these fine gentlemen um we have the minutes of the April meeting to approve Mr and we have a second I heard down on the other end of the table Mr Morris okay all those in favoring the minutes please sign office saying I I any opposed okay the eyes have it the minutes are approved uh I remind you that two weeks from today we need to assemble here at 10:30 in the morning is that correct and um are we going to have lunch provided or are we going to go out for lunch or how are we going to handle that um I will we I believe we have made arrangement for lunch um but that's above my pay grade but I I believe they have already made arrangement for that also as a housekeeping I also have the the copy of the LDC for you guys assigned to get copy of that I know some of you wanted digital I printed it for everybody because I'm still old school when it comes to well I think that's a good idea to for us to have it because you know if nothing else it's a door stop but uh not a door stop it's good uh it's a good document to have will you all be with us that day uh what day is it ma'am May 22nd I'll check my schedule out that date is sticking my head for some reason I know we talked about it previously do we have are you gonna be able to be here Justin should be Tom why not you're gonna be busy that day as long as Jenny sends me a email tell me what day to be here within a day or so okay I'm sure Jenny will let you know uh Joey you'll be here far as I know okay unless I got something else going on okay unless I win a lottery between now and then yeah you know if we do that we're going to be out of the town but I appreciate everyone sticking with us today it's been a long arduous meeting but it was a good meeting it was a essential meeting and um keep asking questions Justin good I kind of had a feeling you were uh and that's a good thing that's not a criticism um so you all have a lovely 6 meting is 620 the meeting is for