##VIDEO ID:acbtiT5znoo## calling to order the Zoning Board of adjustment R in Township New Jersey regular meeting November 7th 2024 what am I looking at I'm sorry um the notice the notice of meeting notice require the notice requirements of the open public meetings act has been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the Bolton board at the municipal building filing same with the Township Clerk and transmitting same to the Hun County de Democrat The Courier News The Star Ledger and the Trenton Times Roll Call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer here Vice chair Mr R DOI has asked to be excused Mr Steve barcio here Mr ranty Block has asked to be excused Mr Jim Ferrero yeah Miss ly K brel here miss lorett ktina here Miss Donna Drews here Mr James Miller he has also asked to be excused board professionals board attorney Mr John drill here Township planner Mr Jeffrey Vella here and all other board professionals have asked to be excused and board secretary Taylor vaugh here okay can I get a motion to to approve uh the absence of the board members second a roll call please chairwoman miss CIA schaer yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero yes Miss Lindsay cool brel yes Miss lorett ktina yes Miss Donna Drews yes great thank you moving on to comments and announcements none at this time distribution and correspondence uh Taylor has provided the draft of the resident guide to all the boards um I think we're giving it two weeks Taylor for feedback uh yes um I will be forwarding it to the planning board they meet next week just so that they can have a look at it as well just because it applies to both boards okay thank you ask everyone to provide their feedback to Taylor within that time uh minutes none resolutions none before we move to the applications this evening there are two applications um just so the applicants know uh it's uh we go till 10:00 and with two applications we will divide the time so you'll get about an hour and 20 minutes so to present your case and that um due to the last meeting um we're going to not take no new testimony after 9:45 I'm still trying to get past that Steve okay calling the first application for this evening boa case number 12- 2024 applicant Kurt fry location block 45.0 lot 14 16 manter court application is for a c variant for proposing a gener generator resulting exceeding 20% maximum impervious coverage and I believe that that generator should be a hot tub yes pleas say I thought I read yeah note that not that on the agenda and on jeffy's report too so little tipb yeah okay you can come up to the table if you want turn that light on if you want you can sit down if you want I'm gonna ask that you send the other one because that one that microphone okay you can sit in that chair if you want and let's I'll just take a a notice Jackie or sonographer is not here Stephen so she will be if anybody needs a transcript she will be transcribing this meeting so please speak it to from the zoom recording so please speak loud clearly and slow there you go yeah what what she just said is very important because if she was here she'd probably hit all of us if we were going too fast so just make sure that thing's in that uh actually so hold on microphone's in your i' lower it hello doesn't change [Music] any feel like I'm in front of the Senate good evening hello so I guess I'm here because I want to put a hot tub in yes um so I need to put a 8 foot by 8 foot slab to support the hot tub okay so you know what let me get your sworn in first oh okay so let's get Mr Fry and Mr beella raise your right hand that both of you swear or affirm testimony you're going to give in this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I it great now go ahead okay uh so I want to put a hot tub in uh for oh also for the record identify yourself Kirk fry okay there we go okay um still want to put a hot tub in um 8 foot square concrete slab uh so it will increase my non-permeable coverage apparently uh we're over the % um I think we're at 20.3 something now and it would move us to 2048 or five something like that um the reason we want the hot tub is uh just want a hot tub but also my wife has fibromyalgia as well as a few other things that the hot tub would help with her um just pain in general um and uh that's what we want to do Jeff did you visit the site I have I have been on site yes okay and you have no concerns why don't you give a brief history because you attached a resolution because I thought I remembered your name from yeah we're the ones that put put a pool in our front yard because backyard it's our actual backyard but it's considered a front yard because there used to be a road there they abandoned the road at some point before we moved in it's woods now um but the the guess they gave that property to the RightWay of Route 12 um and so I have Frontage on Route 12 even though it's Woods um so we previously got a variance well two variances one to put the pool in because we were putting a pool in our front yard um technically and then we also needed another variance to put in a pool height fence I don't remember the height but that pool height fence is large is taller than the fence you're allowed to put in your front yard technically it's it's considered a through lot [Music] and there's two plans there's a survey which shows the existing improvements on the property and then there is a concrete pad plan for the hot tub and it shows the hot tub right next to your wood deck NE again in your backyard but which is technically a front yard correct well that's correct but with a with a three lot you're allowed to have structures in the non dominant front yard it just can't be past the 50 Foot setback so that's what the relief was initially so he's allow it's it's not the fact that the the hot tub or any of the other structures are in the front yard it's the fact that it encroached into the 50 Foot front yard setb back so so where is the 50 Foot setback because I don't see it on drawing [Music] A1 no the it's the back you Jeff it's directly behind right the directly behind the house 12 is is directly behind by the Baptist Church your pool is the pool is too close it's not the generator stop a is not a generator B he got approval for that pool the pool that's as far as I'm aware is we came through this to prove it has a CO yeah right so yeah yeah find out where well I right well well Jeff is saying he's within the 50 and I'm like this is where 12 is so how is that within 50 yeah okay find out I know I know I know sorry I understand where are here is there a road here and that's within 50 ft of that like notro 50% does this need a variance it need it needs a variance for the actual structure itself the location of it does not but the the impervious okay right right right so so the location is there is no barrance relief right okay it's just the impervious coverage okay okay so Jeff this impervious coverage you know I love this topic um you're talking about this he's at just let me let me see if this is correct he is at 20 now and he needs 20.53% is the max he's wants to go over little to Max Jeff can't this cannot be approved administratively I know I I yeah okay I'm I'm I'm good yeah yeah anybody have any questions is there anyone in the audience that interested party or an objector not supporting you a neighbor okay Jeff were there any additional items in your review memo that are outstanding yeah I just had when when reviewing the the plan with the with the block and lot file there are some permits that are outstanding uh the pergula extension of patio uh the deck so all that did not get approval um so that would have to be supplemented when you said did they have permits and they haven't closed them out or no permits no permits no zoning permit or construction permit okay what item is that in your report uh five any of those things need relief or are they already included in the impervious number the aggregate total would would amount to the the 20.3% so I would say that the 20.53% the total would amount okay so the current the current number is 20.3 so it would be either what whatever so you've already accounted for that you've already accounted for the impervious coverage from those items so what do those items need zoning permits and zoning and construction okay so after the fact zoning and construction so if the board grants the approval there's going to be a condition saying you have to get after the fact zoning and construction permits for the other approvement you did without permits before that he issues the zoning permit for the uh the concrete slab just to make sure you do it okay all right what just what all is involved in that because I'm into this for four grand already so if I have to get more that's going to if I have to do that all over again for the other thing no you don't have to apply to the board you have to apply for a zoning permit for the extended patio with the pergola okay zoning permit for the wood deck and construction permits for the extended patio of the pergola the wood deck the Mason block wall those were all part of the pool originally well they may have been approved as part of that but you needed to get you needed to pull permits and construction permits to build them just because you get approved from the board for a variance you can't just start building without getting a zoning permit and construction per the pool was all done with I mean they did the permits and everything I'm happy to do whatever I need to do but the pool guys got the permit for the pool but they didn't get the permits for the other stuff okay am I right or wrong that's that's correct okay clear where you have to go to get the permits and everything I'm assuming zoning permits is the same place that I started there okay so just just so I'm clear the the and I didn't get a chance to look at the prior resolution in detail but I think what you're saying Mr Fry is that the the items that were listed the patio the wood deck the Mason block wall that was all part of your pool application that's my understanding okay and so those would have then already been as far as the variance went was already approved here correct that again that's my understanding so then he just needs to go to zoning then right correct he's got to go to zoning and construction yeah yeah okay that's that okay the bigger issue is coming here that's I'm just want to make sure you don't have to do that yeah me too all right anybody have any questions or concern by the way technically I'm looking now at the resolution I don't see n there no because he didn't need relief from the board to do those other things the only right because the only thing that resolution 2014-12 did it gave them C1 variances to allow the pool pool improvements and pool improvements in the rear yard and they were listed as Pool Patio pool filter fencing it's just and there was a condition saying no other structures except yeah and condition 11 said no other structures shall be installed their construction without first obtaining all permits and so according to Mr Fry the pool guy put in the other stuff without getting permits doesn't really matter got get after the fact per yeah right just finish I was more concerned whether or not he would have to come back here which doesn't sound like he does so just have to go get that stuff you grant what Jeff has done is if you grant the 20.53% impervious he's already counted y for those improvements that don't have permits in that calul that's perfect that's perfect yep yep that's perfect okay you helped them out Jeff any uh questions or from the board from the the professional yeah let's just have something in there for me like uh if 0 53% impervious is that going to create any sort of storm water drainage problem or is it going to need special drainage storm water management no correct okay and Jeff there's nothing else on your report that we need to be concerned with I have one loudly Jim Jim can't hear you you got to hold it down no don't hold it down don't push the button then we can't hear you hear no all I want to know very very quick question where are we going from to where we're going at if we approve this what did the improve coverage he's asking for the numbers total the percentages it's uh 22.8 square feet additionally so it's but he's asking for percentage of percentage so he's he's currently at what and approval will give current he's currently at 20% he's going to 20.53% okay can we does the the professional have any additional questions I just had the the Mason block wall that was constructed with the house and and through this the previous approval what there's three right so there's there's one in the front that's that's been there I think almost since we moved in okay there's one that the pool company put in because it was on a slant and they had to flat it so that the pool equipment didn't dip so they put right cover chaining wall and then there's a third one that's sort of buried behind a bunch of trees right now so I'm not sure which one the one the one in the front I was I was uh just concerned about just because the seac is very close to the property line but if it was built with the original construction yeah I believe I'm trying to I don't don't recall uh we probably did put that in I'm not I don't recall specifically but okay okay am I allowed to ask a question sure sure how high are those walls exactly I can't tell are they over four feet no okay okay they're I'm just asking question yeah they're hip height the tallest one the other the the pool one is maybe 12 Ines tall the one in the back is hip height and the other one is hip height I know because they stick out a little bit and when I walk by I Jam a hip okay there no other questions let me get two more things that I need what's the size of the lot 0.96 acres and for a lot this size are these improvements with the pool and the um related improvements and the hot tub are they in overdevelopment for the slot no no okay I'm good okay John you good yep okay can close for deliberation anybody want to start yeah I'll start um I mean from what Jeff has said obviously with the condition of getting the permits um I don't think that this is a anything crazy or elaborate you're going from 20% to 20.53% um so I I'm I'm all for it also I will say that it's obviously being used for something that um for health reasons which I can understand so I I and I don't think it it sounds like it's a a perfect fit for what you're doing so I'm good okay I have no uh objections this is fine for me okay can we close for a vote oh I need a motion to approve I'll make a motion I'll second subject to the conditions that we discussed subject to the conditions that we discussed okay chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero yes Miss lindsy K brel yes Miss Lorette ktina yes Miss Donna Drew yes all right um just so you're aware we have a brochure that has after the approval what needs to be done okay uh please feel free to take this and um it's not like you walk out of here and then you move on it's there's just a few steps so all right thank thank you very much okay so the next application I'm going to read it in and then we'll withdraw it yes yes yes all right uh boa case number 2017-2024 applicant Robert Reese location block 40 Lot 8 440 Highway 202 applications for certificate of non-conforming use of light industrial and residential uses and it's been withdrawn yes okay the the letter was included with your packet that's curious withdrawn they didn't ask for a continuance just curious do you know why no see he's here yeah yeah when we filed an application for certification of a pre-existing non-conforming use and we received material from the Township in response in your report which raised questions about that my client was the purchaser under contract and rather than expending more funds on that issue we withdrew that application got it okay moving on to the third case of the evening boa case number 19-2020 applicant is Dave and Sally mcferson location block 77.0 n lot 48 three amall Road application certificate of non-conforming use of a multif family residential use good evening Mr grber good evening and we're not going to go past 10:00 tonight oh we're not Steve Gruenberg on behalf of the applicants David and Sally mcferson uh this is our application for a certification of a pre-existing and uh non-conforming use um the pre-existing non-conforming use is of multifam residential use with four apartments in the main building and the the uh continued use of the residential unit on a second floor of the 3 Bay detached garage um my clients are in the process of selling the property and they um want to assure the potential buyer that the use that has been going on on this property since 1956 uh is a pre-existing non-conforming use and I have M Merson here at provide testimony and support of that application and we can go over the chronology of everything that has happened with this property since then John I think we should I mean I I read it and it sounds I think we should read it into the she should testify into the record yeah correct we we'll go through the whole chronology okay so let's first right hand do you swear or affirm I don't know why I said right hand but it said right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony given this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do I do can you identify yourself for the record Sally mcferson okay and Jeff Jeff Vella Township planner so Ms mcferson are you the owner of the property known oh before that I provided proof of service and publication of the notice of hearing and ask that the jurisdiction be confirmed you check yes it is satisfied yes and my opinion the Board of procedural jurisdiction over the application thank you um miss mcferson you and your husband are the owners of three mwell Road Flemington New Jersey in Ran Township yes and when did your family first acquire that property my parents bought it in the late 1940s um I wasn't here yet I wasn't born I was born in 52 and they bought it neither my sister was she's 10 years older than me and she gave me some information and she said she thinks it was like 40 keep your voice up there it was like in 1948 49 my parents bought it and um I have marked previously exhibit A1 which I'd like to distribute to the board which has been circulated today yeah can you do that can you tell us A1 looks like it's a photograph it's a photograph of who and that's a cute little girl in that photograph that was me when I was about 3 years old standing in front of the detached garage so this would be if you were 3 years old this would be taken in 1952 55 1955 right 1955 right right right right and that building in the and that's your mother standing next to you yes and you're about three years old there right and that building behind you is the detached garage correct correct and we know that there was a part recording we just need to make sure it's accurate recording you are ined record so in N am I okay y great so in 1956 I understand that your family bought a house or built a house about three miles away correct correct and at that time in 1956 where was your family living in 1956 we were living in raville in the apartments okay so in the main in the big house in the big house there was already uh three apartments and the tavern building corre use in there hold on hold on hold on I missed it in the in the main building in 1956 there was what three apartments and the tavern and the what a Tavern a Tavern yes that's what I thought I kept on hearing but no one told me about it so I was we're telling you now a little confused three Apartments plus and and the tavern section so when your family moved out in 1956 and the house that was built um The Tavern section was converted into an apartment correct correct and you um your family rented that apartment those four apartments and the apartment above the garage um continuously up until the present time correct yes and you purchased a property I'm sorry let me back up you actually lived in one of the apartments in 1975 for yes I lived there when I first got married and there were four apartments in the main building in one apartment in the garage at that time correct and then eventually you and your husband acquired the property in 1986 by purchasing it from the estate yes we did and um at that time did you uh have an upgrade of the septic system we did and I'm going to show the board that we previously marked exhibit 82 what was the date of that uh the updated septic 198 uh first one was 86 thank you I have an EXT hey hey hey hey and A2 shows 1986 at the top right corner correct yes yeah who wrote that 1986 in in the top right corner anyone know who wrote the 1986 in on the top right corner I I don't I didn't where where did this document come from these was my records this was the plan that was submitted to the Township from our excavator to update the the um septic and that's what I found okay so this is when you've found the records it had 1986 on the UPR hand corner yes okay and that shows one apartment in the one building and four apartments in the other correct yes um and from the time okay hold up one second you need to show that there was one apartment over the garage and four apartments in the main house prior in 1957 correct correct and that's what her testimony was right that's what her testimony was yeah okay this is just confirming that at least as of 1986 they were still there correct it's and it's continuous one apartment and four apartments and in fact you since you've owned it in 1986 until the present time it's been one apartment above the garage and four apartments in the main building correct yes and in 2021 you actually had a whole new septic system put in correct we did and I didn't I provided that information to Mr Bella in response to his report didn't make extra copies of it but again that showed the septic systems were completely upgraded to account for up to 10 bedrooms which was um provided to Mr Bella and you got approval from how many how many bedrooms are there going to get to that next okay I just want to confirm that in doing that your engineer got approval from the hunter County Health Department and Soil Conservation District correct yes so in did you that was yeah that's what I asked you before the meeting started oh no I thought you meant it to to provide the the documents no I I provided it you email just just just me noed okay I didn't print the copy yeah I can you you have a copy you can show them I don't have the print outs but I can make a representation that I submitted can you go look at it Miss McPherson's testimony is that from 1956 to the present there's been one apartment over the garage and four apartments in the main building is that correct correct okay while Jeff is looking at that can you can she tell us how many bedrooms are in the apartment over the garage and how many bedrooms are in the four apartments in the main building sure in the multif family um building with the four apartments are there seven bedrooms and four baths yes and in the garage building are there two bedrooms and one bath yes and that's a for a total of nine bedrooms and five baths correct correct and Mr Vella attached to his report the property tax records um which have you reviewed and that actually is consistent with what's listed on the property tax records yes and you've been taxed with property taxes for the four bedrooms and or or the four bedroom multif family and the one-bedroom uh single family uh over the garage uh for as long as you can remember I guess correct H how has the tax assessor taxed the multif family building as a single family resident or as a multif family building as a as a multif family building and how has he taxed the apartment over the garage as a single family dwelling you rest your case right one other thing you want the board to take judicial notice that the first zoning ordinance adopted in the history of rid and Township was adopted in 1957 correct yes please um in his report Mr Bella asked for proof of the septic um that because we made a representation that it was good for 10 and we provided that information yeah I reviewed it it was for five total units 10 bedrooms and that was supposedly exhibit A3 correct actually I didn't mark that as exhibit A3 yeah you kind of slinked it in there you know I I could have marked it but it was like it was a huge package Pages the only other thing I had from a for A3 honestly was proof that everything is good from the Fire Marshall so I can submit that if you would like you know it's from 2023 but all these units have been let's take um you do you want that the septic thing in the file marked as A3 so we you know it's there or not yeah should so A3 what's what's the title L that in the date can can I identify it as packet reflecting septic approvals from the hunter County Health Department and Soil Conservation District packet reflecting Hunter County Health Department hold on hunteran County Health Department and Soil Conservation District and Soil Conservation District septic approvals for 2021 septic approvals for 2021 reflecting approval for 10 bedrooms yes yes yes yeah I have a question do we have anything from the township that says or shows that this was a uh residential multi-use uh back in the 1950s doesn't you're not going to get there not going to be anything like that that exists okay because they they commen to use before The the count first ordinance okay so this is a classic lawfully created pre-existing non-conforming use before an ordinance was adopted this is not like before an ordinance Amendment okay so then my next question is I'm assuming that miss mcferson is is giving testimony that that's the way it existed yeah I asked her before right is it your testimony that the one apartment over the garage in the four apartments in the main building were created in 1956 and have continually continuous existed up to today she said yes all right but in 1956 how old were you how old was I I was four four and she she said she got some of this information from her sister from her sister right well that was my next question okay who's 10 years older than you correct yes so she would have been 14 right okay just so you know the board has we've never relied on the testimony of a four-year-old but we we have relied on testimony of teenagers since my grandson turned four no disrespect let me tell you something they lie like a rug so did you just knock over that thing I didn't do it I saw you knock Wasn't Me Okay you Okay anybody have any other questions anyone from the public here two gentlemen out in the audience I assume they're somehow with the applicant on this I fig you're the husband and you're the realtor or something yeah all right team team mcferson he looks like their husband you look like the realtor um were we gonna get them to submit the fire just so it's in the file because that'll well hope might help you in the future but it's up I'm happy to you want the fire stuff in Jeff yeah we can take A4 would be can you identify A4 for the record A4 the fire safety certificates of compliance for smoke detector carbon monoxide and fire extinguisher for each of the apartments all five that were issued on August 16 2023 great John is there any concern that um that the sister should testify not she's not local I understand but we got Zoom okay oh I mean here here it's a good question that's up to the board what's your comfort level because gen in general she's not an expert if she was an expert an expert can actually rely would a planner if they had a planner here the planner could rely on a conversation he had with his sister last week technically this lay witness cannot rely on that but technically this is an administrative proceeding which technically heay is allowed and I guess it's what the the board's GNA have to do is Judge The credibility of this witness and by looking at her do you think that she's being you know honest and Frank about what her sister told her or do you want the a more level of comfort and continue to thing to arrange for her sister to be hooked up via Zoom I would I would also in and you know the families know this stuff when they talk to each other about family history listen listen listen Steve we know the question is she was four at the time so any information she learned from them is hearsay I'm not saying it's not allowed I'm just saying it's up to the board for what level of comfort they want Jeff do you have any concern that this PL this this property this house was U being used for multif family residential my only concern I haven't been on site so we have no records no no no correspondence no even anything in the zoning department which is very sometimes rare well put it this way from from 1956 to now obviously there have been upgrades made in the apartments with no permits that's what Jeff's saying now that is a condition issue in my opinion that doesn't go to whether or not they have a lawfully created pre existing non-conforming use and title to continue because from 1956 to now if they didn't you know rip out some walls put up walls replace things it would be shocking and if Jeff went in I'm sure he would be able to look around and see some new stuff but okay I don't know what you want to do about that but again in my opinion that doesn't go to whether or not it's is a lawfully created pre-existing non-conforming use I mean let's say you went in there and saw that what would you how would you how would you do after the fact permit there's a there's a year 1979 where we don't require any uh but my where I was getting at is that if if for instance there was four units but then maybe one was converted with a kitchen and a bathroom versus yeah but listen if you if you went in there what would you be able you'd be able to tell something like that no because what you're saying is you have no records so you can't tell so forget the records I'm asking if you went in there and you saw that there was some new stuff done how could I even put a condition on getting it and the other case that was here tonight this was easy we had a resolution it said you could do XYZ you look at the plan he did XYZ and then he did A and B and he came in for approval for so we attached the conditions saying okay before we give you before you give him the zoning permit for C he's got to get after the fact permits for A and B how would you know what to even ask for after the fact permits you wouldn't yeah isn't the whole point though whether or not it was it was multif family residential use right yeah okay so I know I know the house I've driven by it I don't know how many times I don't remember it ever not being it always look like M use so put it this way the continuation of the use is not the issue she testified that in 1956 yeah they moved out they moved to a house a mile away they then converted the tavern to apartments and started renting them and it's been like that right they've been renting them there were three Apartments before that at that point they three Apartments plus a Tavern correct they converted the tavern to the fourth apartment 1956 first ordinance 1957 y i you know I'd like to hear from you CL yeah I mean I I feel comfortable with this because yes uh you know the tax records I I would have hoped that you would have bought your real estate listing in I'm not allowed to talk about that but because there is a sign out front and you mentioned it was for sale there was some really good information L is on Jeff's report huh the real estate listing we we submitted that of our application the application attached to the application we submitted that material part of on mine okay remember the but the right the information in there was put together by guy there based on information he got from someone else but what I thought was informative was the layout of the apartments and stuff so you could kind of see how it grew you know over time so that's where you know I I believe this was a pre-existing non-conforming use that you know it would have been nice if we could had some better documentation about the the conversion of the tavern to the last apartment in 1956 but I'd say this this photograph is very um well it's not dated informative it's very informative so to me I feel comfortable with this great anyone have anything else there any other concerns Jeff my only concern is that um reference to item number 10 is just in the future just on record that if this were uh granted a certificate that any expansion would require an application to the board okay and we should put a condition on there like the last one that said if you do anything else you got to get permits even though that other guy kind of ignored it are you okay with that condition yes okay okay can can we close for deliberation anyone want to start I'll start just you know I I I think the information that we've been provided and and given our our our you know at least I've been here 43 years so I know that that place has had a lot of cars parked in front and it appeared to be an apartment complex and I think with the documentation provided and the the informative narrative I feel comfortable saying that this is a pre-existing non-conforming use of the four apartments in the house and the one apartment over the garage I would agree I think the long history of the township and and where we are and what the houses have been developed I think we're sitting in a situation where okay it was there and was converted from a Tavern to a another but it was a multif family so and I one last thing I do appreciate that they've upgraded the septic system because and tight conditions and everything you know I probably would have had a lot more ative saying go ahead with this but because they have made two good faith efforts to update the septic system that's a really important thing in my book yes all right anybody else I've here over 40 years also and this is not the first time done an application most of been business and apparent [Music] was okay can I get a can I get a motion to go ahead I'm sorry um I was wondering about the three car garage so the vehicles that um the residents of the apartments um utilize are some of them are stored in that garage like that garage is that used strictly for vehicle storage yes it's for the people that live over top of the garage I'm sorry thanks go ahead I'll make a motion oh okay I'll second can we get a roll call chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero yes Miss lindsy K brel yes Miss Lorette ktina yes Miss doners yes okay 747 how about that I'm sure you're gonna have to do you're gonna have to do a lot better than that so there's just I'm never forgetting okay this is just the steps I have to take after the approval tonight so I would just like to hand it give it to you I'm sure Steve provides you all the information you need but sometimes it gets miscommunicated so thank you U before everybody packs up let's just take a moment our next meeting is for the countryside properties Steve and I think this this upcoming one I gave you guys the traffic report just because that's what everybody seemed to want John it was mailed to you um so kind of just be prepared and we'll be sure to make that announcement no new testimony after 9:45 yes that's going to be a standard now and I'd like to spend a few minutes just discussing something if you guys don't mind so after the last meeting where we went to 10:30 um I'm I'm kind of um challenged on how to move forward so we we I asked for some uh feedback we got the statement how we're going to say no new testimony after 9:45 but the other thing I'm I'm going to try and do is uh for every application I'm going to try and create a little chart that says who gave reports and how many open items they have so when the attorney comes up or the applicant comes up I can look at it and say okay I've got three questions from Jeff I've got five questions from the engineer and I've got 50 from the landscape so so at least I can try and gauge how much time yeah how much time now that doesn't mean anything we can spend half hour on one item but um if we start something at 9:15 and I see that we have at least 10 or 15 open items I can then say to the attorney right then and there that it doesn't look like we're going to go it looks like we're going to go past 10 o'clock so let's let's uh plan this till 9 till 9:50 and then we're going to stop whatever we're doing so I I don't want to go again I'm sorry I just I can't anymore um you killed her well I I hate to say it the TR the trust in the planners are is gone okay both two planners I said can you finish in 15 or 20 minutes and they said yes and this last one who I like a lot you know 10:25 and I'm looking at like you got five minutes okay I'm done so it's it's a lot of work everybody puts in a lot of time and and my goal the goal is always to try and get the applicants through as quickly as possible because it's their time and their money but but there Comes A Time where it just isn't working yeah certainly don't want to inconvenience aboard and I know you guys are volunteers and staying past 10 o'clock is is brutal so um you know I have no problem with you saying if we're going to cut us off cut us off well that that one we were trying to get done because it would have been getting the application done that night oh I agree I agree and um you know if we were meeting once a month it would be fine we're meeting twice a month we're back you know we're back with all these backup applications again so we keep trying to move forward and we're not making any progress so um I just wanted to I'm GNA try not saying it's gonna be perfect um I think a good idea to me I think the Hope too is that people come more prepared too if there is anything that is outstanding that they can address it beforehand or well one of the things one of the things I'm going to say is and I know we've done it before we've actually stopped an application there's too many open items yeah so so I'm gonna I'm GNA basically call out the attorney and basically say you have 15 open items yeah okay you realize that this is a three-hour meeting and you only have half the meeting you got to do what my partner Mike does see I basically only do board stuff my partner Mike does some development stuff he I hear him in the room he tells the engineer and the architect he's like listen I don't want to piss off this board we're we're we're pulling we're calling this off and not at the last minute and this isn't directed just to you yeah but but at the same time only attorney here at the same at the same time I don't want to create more work for Jeff you know he's got to meet with these applicants all the professionals have to meet with them the applicant and go through it so you know it's here or there but we got to do something I I try to make an a real effort when we get reports that if we have a whole bunch of issues that I don't want to come before the board because it's a waste of your time and a waste of of our time and our money quite honestly so we try to narrow down those reports as much as possible and that's sometimes I get criticized for having to adjourn a meeting because we get reports and I don't want to go forward on the meeting because it would be spinning our Wheels but you know I I'm hearing what you're saying and you know we're I try to make every effort to have my professionals have addressed all of those points uh on the reports and I take the ones that I know are open items and the others I try to say I think we met all of these and go through only the ones that would be helpful too yeah and perception is reality and and you know if the applicant gets upset with the board you know it's it's tough it's tough on us it's it's you know we're just trying to keep Mo things moving along and it's like yes I'm going to cut you off because your engineer should have been meeting with our engineer and not have all these open items but you know I I haven't had any of my clients upset with this board I don't know you're hearing from somebody else but I haven't had any of my clients upset with the board about the way you conduct your hearings and you know we we want to have a good relationship with the board and I want to have a good relationship with the board and the board's professionals I try to streamline our teson and and last time really hurt yourt hurt you it took me three days to get over that no and I think I also I I do the board attorney stuff too for I know I know and and you know I have no problem if you know there's a planner who's left and you think it's only going to take 15 minutes it never just takes yeah no and I know they want to earn their money I mean they don't want to come up here and get short and you know the clients you know it's it's a rough thing but I'm just trying to weigh it and I'm just yeah appreciate the collaboration and trying to figure out how we can resolve it you can have any of these guys call me if there's ever an issue or a problem that you have to help make the process easier for the board and for my clients too we all have to get through everything that we well I have to say I there is one thing I would ask okay I know it's silly but I don't think the applicants know every any know too much and I think they rely on you your expertise and it doesn't doesn't hurt to give him one of these what is what what is the application how many you want for your office does we'll send you the PDF you how the post approval process very rarely does the I don't think you've I'm not really involved too much in post approval put it this way Steves has not had problems with that we're not going to mention who has had problems with that it's gone to the point where applicants just come to to me or they go to Jeff as if they don't know anything when they have their professionals so it it's hard when we say we don't necessarily work for you we're here to help you but we can't do the process for you yeah and I'm not again we're not saying it's you yeah but we've been seeing it so much that yeah it it's become impossible and Taylor's put things up on the website you can point your application applicants there and say hey just touch Bas there yeah you know anything you can do to to give them information I'm saying anytime you do a residential one please explain it to them I I I do my best before they hire you and then it feels like they never even hired you I will do my best to let them informed I don't usually get involved in post approval unless it requires Deeds that we have to submit or anything like that even if it's just handing them the brochure and saying like here if you have questions call them yeah there are six I'll them in office I'll be charging you for that color printer though send don't worry I'll I'll pick up the bill okay the PDF I just want print them okay all right so I think Cynthia you know getting it on the agenda like we do at planning board where it says no hearing no new testimony pass this time and I think also setting expectations that testimony will be stopped at 9:50 so that it's it's in writing you know and it's like then people aren't read it every every meeting yeah and I I think that's where it's just expectations the other flip side though we have to be careful which gets me a little concerned is someone comes in with a list a hit list of 40 things they say agree but there's a lot of nuance sometimes and discussion that we need to hear from our professionals um around some items so right you know there there's times and I'll just speak from my experience with planning board where we've where storm water issues have become a big issue it's Point by point we don't agree that they just say we agree to comply but that's where my experience with this board is the professionals speak up they have 25 things and they say they agree John Thomas will say well I I wan right but sometimes in the in that in the gist of expediency I agree I I agree just because just because I'm listing open items doesn't mean you can't discuss anything else absolutely absolutely I'm just saying it gives us a gauge of what we're looking absolutely for the application a good way of put do you need anything else for me am I you didn't have go see your I mean nobody told you to come up to the microphone I think the other problem though that we have is that all the applications we have and you guys are the two people who have to deal with them well you don't have there's not a lot of help there and there's so many nuances to all of them too that it's not they're trying to do things in the back end to to help them um who's doing I don't think it's not I don't think it's enough wait who who's doing that what who's helping them on the back end no there other people myself no you mean other people you mean them so there are there are two individuals in this room okay there is a volunteer oh so there's an additional person okay there is Poss possibly additional can we talk about it I mean is this why don't we just so so there there are things in the work that we can I didn't I didn't know that's what I was asking it's not probably not enough okay yeah I do I do think though that that's you know I mean when I tell people that we have meetings twice twice a month it's crazy yeah that's a good idea okay can we do that you want to do that yeah I would like to end the session now if you guys want talk make a motion to close if you guys want to talk about things like staff I have a question about it yeah so you want to go into close s make a motion to go into closed session to discuss employment matters you got I agree because whatever you do you need to say do I need to say it again or no no so are we're gonna go into close session someone needs to make a motion to go all right no no no we're not adjuring the mo the meeting we're I'm I'm making a motion to go into Clos session to disc to discuss personnel and Personnel yeah for the coming year for the coming year 2025 yeah I get a second I'll second okay just give me a couple minutes you need a this can't this got to be a roll call gotta be a roll call vote I'll call it roll call Vote Yes yes [Music] yes yes yes