Mr Dr are you ready ready to go like to call the meeting of the Ron Township Zoning Board of adjustment for April 7th um to order uh the notice requirements of the opland public meetings act have been satisfied by placing a notice of this meeting on the bulletin board at the municipal building filing same with the Township Clerk and transmitting same to the Hun County Democrat Courier News The Star Ledger and the Trenton Times any roll call please zoning board chairman Mr Roger erens yes Vice chairman Mr Kevin cool yes chair prot Miss Cynthia schaer here Mr Steve fario here Mr Randy block asked to be excused tonight Mr Jim Ferraro Jim should be on right yeah I don't see him online he is a no at the moment is that Jim's head at the top I think that's Jim's head up there no that's Jackie that's Jackie's head yeah Jack Jim's not on my list okay let me ask you this has anyone been in touch with Jim I talked to him earlier in the week did he plan on coming call Ferraro Jim mobile keep just to confirm you'd like to call Jim feraro calling Jim feraro Mr Brad Perry here Mr Bill cumins here Mr rasul damji here board engineer Mr Tony haar here board attorney Mr John drill here landscape architect Mr John Morgan Thomas here on behalf of traffic consultant Mr J tropman tonight we have Mr John Raye tonight oh we thought you were going to attend uh virtually John I see you're on Zoom I think you're muted mute uh yes I'm here there you are board planner Miss Jessica Caldwell yes are you attending me Jessica is also muted meeting starting right now yeah can't hear you but I can see you by okay Jim lost track of time he's gonna get on right now uh here can you hear me oh there she is okay what time is Township assistant planner Mr Jeffrey Vella here and board stenographer M can you hear me yes yes can you hear us I'm here yes Jessica can you hear us and I lost her I think she might be like freezing yep J call why don't you keep I'm gonna Mark Jim as a yes then if he's coming yeah okay we're good then all right can I have a motion to excuse Randy block please so move second Mr Roger erens yes Mr Kevin cool yes Miss Cynthia schaer yes Mr Steve Faro yes Mr Brad Perry yes Mr Bill cumins yes and Mr Russell DJI yes all right I see we have no comments tonight any announcements distribution to correspondence we have minutes tonight from the March 3rd meeting um I have picked up two things on page four um uh about seven sentence down uh it says um this would create a non-conforming condition in the clarage gate community um I think that's Carriage gate um and I know it's very hard for um our sonographer to hear so that's probably the reason uh for the mistake and also on page five uh second par paragraph about the fifth line down it says they have been doing this since 1983 and purchased the property the application is uh I think the application is needs to be dropped out and it should read and purchase the property for uh five years ago so those are the only corrections I have hases anyone else noticed any other Corrections and I have a motion to accept the minutes I'll make a motion to accept the minutes with the changes second yes second okay Mr Roger erens yes Miss Cynthia Schaefer yes Mr Steve fario yes and just want to note for the record that Mr Jim Ferraro has joined us uh Mr Jim Ferrero how do you vote on the minutes Jim can you hear us Jim you on mute I'm un muted now Mr BR yes yes yes Mr B comment yes Russell dami yes okay um resolutions our first resolution is stowaway Self Storage number three LLC block lot 72479 US Highway 202 application number boa5 d221 resolution memorializing Grant of B1 and C2 variances to allow a prohibited U-Haul use on property and as prohibited third principal use on the property as well as to allow a prohibited accessory retail sales use on the property related to the existing self- storage facility use on the property C2 parking variants and minor sight plan approval are there any version Corrections I'm sorry version um and this is resolution number 2021 D28 and it is uh version five 202 yeah this is a new 2020 yeah this is 2021 28 even though you're adopting it in 2022 case that was decided in 2021 and it's March 21 2022 version 5 correct okay uh any changes seeing none could we I'll make a motion to approve the resolution and I'll second that motion uh Roger you actually did not vote on the resolution okay sorry my mistake I'll second the resolution thank you was that Bill yes okay so quiet tonight though um Mr Kevin Co yes Miss Cynthia schaer yes Mr Randy block is absent Mr Steve fario yes Mr Brad Perry yes and Bill cumins yes okay our second resolution is Hun County vocational school district 84 Highway 31 Lock 27 lot3 application number boa2 d221 resolution memorializing Grant of a D1 and C2 variances to allow off premise off- premise identification sign for Vocational School on high school property resolution number 2021-2022 Das uh so March 21 uh 2022 version four any changes to that resolution can I have a motion I'll make a motion to approve the resolution I'll second it Kevin um thank you bu did not no so Kevin's the second can I have roll call Kevin Cole yes cythia Schaefer yes Randy block is absent tonight Steve farsio yes Jim Ferrero yes okay the third resolution is uh suash carola Cal uh 24 Tiffany Drive block 44.0 lot 26 application number boa 33- 2021 resolution memorializing Grant of a C1 variance to allow shed to encroach within required rear yard setback resolution number March 21 2022 version 4 You Can Tell March 21 was a very busy day by the way that is resolution number 2022 -01 uh any changes or Corrections I'll make a motion to approve the resolution I'll second it Kevin Cole Mr Roger erens yes Mr cin Cole yes Cynthia schaer yes Randy block is absent tonight Mr Steve parcial yes Jim Ferrero yes and Brad Perry yes okay our fourth resolution is Matthew Benedict uh 10 Aon Place block 44.2 lot 30 application number 14-22 resolution memorializing denial of requests uh C hard surface coverage variants thereby prohibiting installation of a of a proposed pool and paper patio surrounding the pool resolution number 222-0221 2022 version 4 any corrections or changes I'll make a motion to approve and I'll second that motion rer erens yes Cynthia schaer yes Randy block is absent tonight Steve fario yes Jim Ferrero yes Brad Perry yes Phil cin yes okay our first case is BOA case number 35-22 applicant James rigan location block 76 Lot 505.01 21 Forest Drive application D variant for accessory of Department in basement uh Mr rigan are you representing yourself tonight yes sir like step up uh yes please and before we get started since you're representing yourself let me just tell you how we work uh this is somewhat inal um uh we do have some rules of procedure the way we work um you gets warn uh because you're testifying also our other expert Witnesses um you make your statement um the board questions you um then we ask does the public have any questions of you um at that point no one can make any comments about what you said only question you then at that point we open it up to the public and ask are there any questions um from I mean excuse me any comments from the public and they can make comments at that point I hope I remember all that okay well we'll we'll help guide you and Mr drill do you have anything further you'd like to add to that no that's perfect so let me swear let's have Mr Rakin and let's have the two board Witnesses these two you're not you're not participating in this one right so does everyone swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you guys okay and we know your name but can just for the record can you identify yourself you can also the microphone will pick you up James P rigan okay and I know we know you're addressed from the file but again for the court your address 21 Forest Drive Clemington New Jersey identify yourself Mr rigan because our sonographer is online tonight we're going to ask you to pull the mic up close to you and also speak rather slowly if you would so that she can transcribe everything you say yes sir thank you Jeff Bella Township assistant planner Tony haar board engineer Mr rigan the floor is yours um I'm applying for uh my 88-year-old stepdad to have an apartment in the basement um there's a few um um Jeff Vell was nice enough to draw a list here of the items that are satisfied and that you want to question me on for satisfaction um there's one outstanding and that would be the location of the deck which I need to do another variance on um and that I'm prepared to do if the board gives me a date which I can put into the notice for the next meeting um would you like me or would you want to go over and I spoke to Jeff and I think we're going to go over the items one through eight is that the proper way to do it sure we'll be glad to do that if you want to make an opening statement and just tell us something about the apartment you know why you built an apartment yeah my yeah my stepdad my mother died and um and my stepdad is uh developing Alzheimer's so um we put in we finished up the basement for him and uh um he's 8080 he has nowhere to go uh he's been very good to me for the past 44 years and um I I I feel responsible and something I wanted to to do so we got a basement for him but we do want autonomy um because we are a family too and um so we have um a um oh thanks wow so we have uh um a Stairway that he uses you know he eats over once a week and um it when he needs help um we're there for him and he needs help couple times a week so my wife and I um being gracious as she is she we help help him out so that's what it's for it's it's for a family member or blood relative both of them he's not a blood relative he's my stepfather my dad died in a scuba diving accident so and and he and my mother hooked up and uh he's been very good to our family and I going to be very good to him is that and then pretty much it y That's fine all right just so legally he he doesn't even need a reason to want to have the accessory apartment he just has to satisfy the conditional use requirements in the ordinance so the ordinance is section 296 1510 as an Oscar and the report that Mr Rakin is referring to Jeff and uh Jeff and Tony's report goes through those items and anywhere it says satisfied I don't think you have to deal with satisfied if he ask if they ask for Testimony you'll give testimony but the two items that you at this point need a D3 variance relief from or item three which is the accessory apartment shall be no larger than a th000 square feet have no more than two bedrooms according to the report the plan prepared by James Hill depicts 1344.10 so you're going to have to address that and have some reason why it has to be that size why it can't why it can't be reduced to 1,000 feet well may I and I just want and then the other one to address is number five says yep adequate Provisions shall be made for water supply and disposal of sewage the on-site sewage disposal plan and the wellwater sufficiency and portability must be approved d by the County Health Department Andor the rid and tet Municipal Utilities Authority and because this is a conditional use this can't be imposed as a condition of approval this has to be satisfied prior to the board granting approval so you you need to address what you're doing about the uh sewer capacity yes thing in five so why don't you take it away but as I see it um number one it says well the applicant shall testify as to this no more than one accessory apartment you don't you're not going to have more than one accessory apartment right yes sir so that takes care of one number two total floor area of at least 400 square feet well you got more than that you satisfy that one correct yes sir so the first one to address is why does the apartment need to be more than a th000 square fet it it's almost like why you don't you know you don't why do you get wet when it rains I mean we the basement is that kind of configuration and um we gave him enough room to breathe we gave him a an open layout which is h a kitchen um living room combo bedroom office combo and a bathroom actually um after reviewing the plans um it's actually two about 200 square feet less than the quoted amount and why is that um because the furnace room is not an apartment use he doesn't use it as an apartment the second thing is the um storage area which is our storage area um and that if you combine the two of them the square feet you're probably about 200 square feet less than the the uh full basement area which was the amount quoted in the number three conditions so let's assume for argument sake that the apartment is 1,1 144.5 Ft the question is going to be why can't you just cut off you know the however many feet you're above the 1,44 one why can't you just cut off 150 square feet of the apartment get it down to 1,00 square feet then you wouldn't need the board to Grant a variance from that well I I think the the board would not be um I don't think the board board would be burdened by by graning a little more square feet that makes let me just finish let me just finish you need a reason for that well I'm trying to get to that why would the board wouldn't be out of line to give me a little more square feet for the aesthetic value of a gentleman living there for that the rest of his life and that's what's going to happen this is not something that if I cut it down if I cut it down I would be cutting out pieces that would be noticeably cut out for the sole purpose of trying to meet a condition that I believe the board and they're right would would say okay to that's up to the board because legally you need a some thing called a special reason for them to hang their hat on to Grant the variance it would be um exceedingly ugly and useless to to put a to block off a part of his of the room and have you looked at the plan couldn't you make the storage room a little bigger and then make the apartment A Little Less yeah it it would be it would be ugly yeah it would be ugly and useless it would truly be ugly and useless the bathroom's already done I mean the bathroom is is um the bathroom is easily you I wouldn't change the bathroom I'd have to cut out a piece of the uh the the uh the the room actually maybe take a wall and make a little three foot Space by 10 foot and just cut off a whole bunch of his area um it doesn't seem reasonable to do that when the whole thing is open most people come in first apply and then build after you built first you're coming in after that's why you're having the difficulty of fig right I understand that and I understand I'm a flawed individual that did a flawed thing what I'm trying to tell you is that it would not be aesthetically attractive nor would it give him everything he needs I mean have you lived in a th000 square feet it's not much AC my first apartment with my wife was a th000 square feet actually ours was less my wife and I but and and it's it so what I'm doing is just giving him you know I don't think I'm asking the board to be to to uh to to do anything that's not reasonable that's I guess the the the statement and it's all done now no I understand it's all done oh yeah reasonable is not the test that they have to apply but that's beside the point let's keep on going the um condition four doesn't apply so condition five what have you done to are you on septic or are you hooked up to the RTM I've talked to Dan at the board of health and I've also talked to Jim Hill and what we're going to do to satisfy that is and they they made the determination is to put A500 gallon tank rather than the Thousand why because the emaor that brings up the uh waste from the uh bathroom up to the uh tank is uh chunks it into little pieces which may get in the septic uh field because it's not big and it's not completely you know the a whatever goes on top so the only way to solve that is to put a 50 to replace the 1,000g tank with A50 1500 gallon de my suggestion to the board is going to be hear the rest of the case if if you guys are inclined to Grant the D3 variance from condition number three about the size then adjourn this indicate that to him adjourn this you got to do that in my opinion that has to be done you need an approval from the Board of Health before they can then Grant you the approval yeah and and this is a addressing your your statement as well as to the board because I'm sure they they follow all your advice but what I'm saying is this um I would not change the tanks I would not spend the six grand to change the tanks if I'm not going to get approval on the basement so let me just finish I I I have the application I'm working with Jim Hill I'm working with Dan we're working on resolving it and I think an application is fair that's why I'm suggesting that before you go through that expense you get an indication of if these guys are willing to Grant the variance yeah well you and I were just talking semantics I mean you said it one way I said it another okay how many bedrooms do you have in the in the house now there's three three bedrooms yes yes I have the paperwork I think I gave it to Jeff that shows a four-bedroom septic design approved by by the county and the basement has one bedroom you know it I it has a bed in it a bedroom yes one yeah it's it's one big room one huge room with a stairway in the middle a bathroom off of it a storage area and a furnace room all done to aesthetic looks it's not meant to um violate any zoning just meant to accommodate my stepdad I know you didn't intend to violate any zoning but the the size does that's what they got to that's what they have to deal with well the board will decide that right correct okay I'm sorry Jim you're just a little close to the microphone I'm not really catching you you can just back up a little bit from the microphone okay that's perect that's good it'll still get you y you're good okay um and the one that item six they asked to uh testify as to the parking space requirements I I don't understand what you said sir item six look I heard that they said the applicant shall testify to this requirement that's the requirement that you have one and a half parking spaces per unit a total of three parking spaces per residential structure and at the parking space shall be paved with suitable materials and that the material used for the new Paving shall be consistent with the original driveway Jeff wants you to testify explain to the board how you uh comply with that well we have we we have a paved driveway and parking area we have one two 3 four five six parking areas parking spaces yes sir yeah and a two-car garage have you guys one of you guys been out there yes is that true I'm not sure five spaces outside of the garage seems to be okay I believe okay yeah you don't need five all you need is three yeah right we have four facing four facing the uh side of the house and then we have two in front of the garage which Jeff says we shouldn't really count so then we looking at it your way we have four so the application Essence comes down to whether or not to Grant the variance to let the applicant I'm Jan you're to speak sorry the application in my opinion really comes down to condition number three because Mr rigan has testified that if he hears that the board's going to grant them the relief for number three he's going to ask for an adjournment he's then going to put the money in to take care of the septic issue then he's going to come back and he will have satisfied item five and then ask for the formal vote on number three so the the test for a D3 conditional use variant it's different than the D D1 use variant he doesn't have to prove particular suitability even though the statutory language is identic iCal our courts have created different standards that apply to each as pertains to the positive Criterion of a D3 variance the applicant must prove and the board must find that the site proposed for the conditional use continues to be appropriate for the conditional use notwithstanding the deviation from one or more of the conditions of the ordinance so the focus of the board is supposed to be on the specific deviation and let's do either of you guys have any idea of why the th square foot limitation was put in the ordinance believe usually a two two bedroom or one bedroom usually is between four and TH or 900 so they put put in a thousand I don't have any specific reasons so the board has to decide in this particular case is there something about going over the th sare foot that would make this conditional use no longer appropriate because the township committee by making a conditional use has said yes you can have accessory Apartments if you meet these conditions that's the case in a nutshell I have a question argue to them after hearing the standard that I say applies yes sir uh my question is for Tony yes what is the negative Criterion for exceeding that number of sizewise yeah okay so right that's the positive Criterion it would say let's assume the board findes that it remains appropriate so the negative Criterion it says the board has to determine that the variance can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good I'm not arguing his case I don't represent him I represent yeah but I want to but his argument is what negative it doesn't impact any neighbor it's not an addition on the house it's inside in the basement and then with respect to the second prong of the negative criteria would granting the variance substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and Zoning ORD that's why I asked these guys what's the purpose of theet if they knew the purpose you said then you judge whether or not it would be impair these two guys are telling you they have no idea well put words is there any negative put this way under your theory that the accessible Department shouldn't be larger than the other living space what's do you know the square footage of your first floor right over the basement so is it more thanet is it more than yes is it more than 1400 no I I you know honestly I'm not that sure but isn't it the same is it the same doesn't the first floor come right over the basement yes yes but but um the the um um um storage area yeah isn't part of department and and the furnace area is not and this and the stairway is actually not John if I may so let's look at this as a math problem because I agree with you that I don't think the storage unit is is part of the living area nor is the furnace and when I do my calculations on that that's well over 350 square ft so I'm already below the Thousand when I take out the storage he said it's 200 for both I actually he said but that's not the way that it looks I actually looked at the the map that was drawn by Mr Hill and it showed well over 200 square feet I didn't count the stairway either but I figured that I didn't want to be yeah scale I think that's a good idea out the living area down there is no more than a thousand square feet saying we' got rid of that issue you don't have to deal with John can I ask another question I must I might have missed something why aren't we talking about number seven he's going to come back for the the deck and the you mean okay you mean number seven on the we haven't that yet suggestion going to I was talking about the condition numbers I didn't get he to come Tony scales it he comes out to less than a th000 square feet he still has to come back because he has a satisfied condition number five right but if he hears one of two things if the applican hears you're under a th000 fet boom he's going to spend the money he it's overt you guys are going to re variance from that and allow that boom he's going to spend the money and come back since he's going to come back anyway suggestion to the board is don't take the formal vote until he applies for the de other words you can't my advice is them even if I understand prove they should grant3 they should hold yeah well Jeff thought that would happen yeah Tony and Jeff already thought that would happen if you want to L the amount of bedrooms if if I was if I misunderstood Tony a jar I think it's a little over I think I'm smudging over find out and I didn't put the stairway but the stairway is not part of the department either no I don't have dimensions on can I ask you a question while they're figuring that out go ahead was um this is all new construction the kitchen and the bathroom most of it and did you get permits for that no most of it it was already there but it was an ugly toilet and all that other stuff did you was there no it was there but for instance I changed the toilet B excuse me you have something to say they will have something to say they have the right to say he's chling in my ear yeah they will have the right to speak I'd appreciate it if they would be quiet while I spoke go I'm sorry go ahead so excluding I'm sorry I still have to do the answer to the board member's question some of the stuff was there but you upgraded it and other stuff build without permit correct I didn't build anything without permit I upgraded everything that I could I for instance the walls were one one wall was completely almost destroyed this the floor Bu The Wall yeah you can't hold when you look at this application like this we can't hold against the app if they didn't apply for permits now the applicant is in so you look at the application not fing that against judge the application the of the he'll to after this grants he'll have after and after the construction and after the I was only thinking that if this was a plan that was and it was all newly built this would have been addressed at the beginning right yes correct right that's the proper way of doing it it wasn't followed but all right my you can't hold that against legally that's my can can I can I also say something when my mother died he was left there in the house their house down the shore by himself and I had to make a decision he had Alzheimer's I had to get them into my house right away because that house I was the um the executive and I had to sell that for the other heirs I had to sell it he had to get into my house right away and he doesn't move around greatly so I had to get him into something I couldn't put him in the second floor of my house and I got him in right away I didn't do this to purposely offend anybody on a town or anything El think off facts yes we're just trying to get the facts out y so excluding the storage area the furnace area and the stairs 974 so C Engineers just made determination that the department is actually 974 sare ft which means that satisfied condition number three you do not need a D3 variance great it's nice to get it's nice to get something I mean I've been I've been overloaded with this thing now Roger Roger Jim Ferrero I have a question for the applicant can everyone hear me go ahead Jim to know what the plan is with this department when your your step father no longer is able to reside there before you answer the question before you answer the question Jim this is what Tony and Jeff State in their report and I'm going to ask the applicant if it's correct they said that the applicant told them that the use of the department would be used for a family member or a blood relative only great and a condition would be placed for the unit to be a deed restriction with that restriction so that if a family member or blood relative no longer resides there this apartment cannot be used for any purpose and it can't be rented out and it can't be an unrelated individual is that correct that's correct in other words all I want it for if let me just say say it so that I know that we're copesthetic for a blood Rel relative or a family member I mean I have some sons that aren't doing all that well and they may one of them may wind up down there um in fact I'd I'd want one of them down there once my stepdad is gone so I can keep an eye on them but yes absolutely I have no plans to rent it to the public I have no plans to rent it right just so you understand but there's going to be a if the board grants the application and quite frankly um if you satisfies number five right then he could go right to you guys and get a permit well he's got to get right he's got to see variance you know what have the board do the whole thing so he's not going into different places so there'd be a condition stating what you just said but requiring a deed restriction to recorded so that when someday when you sell the house that deed restriction is going to follow it yes in other words anybody who buys my house they could have a blood relative or a family member lived there but that's it it couldn't be for the public correct right and I wouldn't want a public living with me I mean listen I love my stepdad but I'd rather have it just my wife and I and and you agree that you're going to ask after anyone has any more questions for you after your neighbor has the right to question you after your neighbor or anyone in the public has the right to testify and give the board any issues they want to bring their attention you're going to ask for an adjournment so you can take care of conditional requirement number five this the sewage and so you can apply for that variance for the the deck yes I have everything ready to go in the deck I have just to let you know and I'm not trying to take up the board's time I have I already I'm I'm the opposite of procrastination I got the the list to to inform on I have the form all filled out with Jeff's help all I need is a date to put in here and I believe I'm ready to to notify uh those and I I don't procrastinate whatever they need I would do yesterday so you have anything else you want to tell the board before they open it up for questions no are there any more questions from the board Mr rig anybody uh any of the board members that are virtual okay are there any questions from the public of Mr rigan these are questions for the witness you'll also have the chance to speak no questions for the witness no anyone else in the public or every all the other guys are here on Esco I assume okay okay no more questions you want to open it up to public yes anyone in the public want to testify come on up to the microphone can you please identify by yourself yeah my name is Jonathan soski into that microphone oh my name is Jonathan soski and I live at 23 probably going to have to get a little closer not only closer but remember and slower our court reporter is via Zoom okay can you hear me now yes yes oh I apologize if I made a comment and distracted Jim into the board I apologize your name is Jonathan simanowski slowly spell your last name s y m o n o Ki okay Jackie did you get that yes okay ready y ready nice and slow and loud that's all right good evening get his address my name is Jonathan simanowski and I'm here with oh I'm so sorry can you raise your right hand thank you very much do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you again for that now without further interruption or Ado all right good evening my name is John Jan sinowski I'm here with my wife Karen and my son Jonathan we are here because we strongly oppose a variance requested by Jim and his wife Beth rigan our reasons include the following Jim has lived at his residence at 21 Forest Drive for eight years now slow slow I'm sorry for he has lived at his resence for eight years now he has been our neighborhood bully harassing some of our neighbors when he doesn't get his way he says things that just aren't true throughout the years there's been a lot of police activity because of drug use at this residence we've obtained contain many police records that help give you a better picture of what goes on at 21 Force Drive according to the open public records act we only got 30 out of 100 pages of police activity I'll start off by saying this last year I informed Jim that I was going to be building a detached garage on my property he said he had concerns about this I assured him I was going to build a very nice garage and I was going to work with the town through the building and Zoning departments to ensure the garage meets all the town's building codes and zoning regulations over the course of 20 years living in maritan Township my wife and I have gotten all required building and Zoning permits for all our projects even with our newly added detach garage we are at 16.39% impervious surface area which is well below the 20% as per zoning guidelines I did remove some trees near his property line that were leaning towards his property at our own expense in an effort to be a good neighbor I planted approximately 10 trees to give him some cover and as to Jim's bullying nature he sent us a threatening letter stating that he's getting excessive water onto his property and in his basement he wrote in a letter and I quote we will hold you responsible for any and all water problems concerning our premises and septic system it doesn't seem right to me that he's claiming that this is my fault this is his base that his basement has water issues when my property is well within the limits of the allowed and perious services last last year Jim decided to go around to our neighbors with a petition stating many things that weren't true such as our proposed garage was too big in size and it was I was going to use it for my business which I am not hold okay hold up I'm not trying to be disrespectful everything you're saying in my opinion is irrelevant to the issues that the board is supposed to be considering on the application now if he still needed a D3 variance from the size of the apartment then I would say if you had some specific things to oppose that to say them but the township engineer just did a calculation by excluding areas in the township engineer's opinion shouldn't be in the calculation he know he no longer needs that relief the only relief he needs as he stands here as he sits here tonight are two things he needs a D3 variance from the sewer disposal thing but the board's not the board's not going to Grant the application tonight because the board's going to Grant him an adjournment to allow him to have the opportunity to take care of that so if he takes care of that and satisfies the ordinance requirement when he comes back quite frankly the board in my opinion will have no choice but to approve the accessory requirement because it meets all the ordinance requirements however he has another another thing he has to take care of and that is the deck being installed in the natural features and structure buffer so he's going to have to apply for that there's no guarantee the board will approve that and you might very well want to come in to oppose that but your opposition can't be whether it's true or false he might be the worst neighbor in the county right okay but that is irrelevant to the board's consideration of the application so my opinion to the board is that the chairman should rule that you you got to stop you can't be whether it's true or not whether he's a good guy or a bad guy whether he's a bully or he goes around the neighborhood making cookies for everybody whether he's good bad or indifferent it's irrelevant and the board should not hear it yeah we don't want any Odom attacks um yeah so if you have if you have the only things in my opinion you're left with legally to object to are if the board was going to Grant the variants from the sewer thing which they're not but why don't we pull the board anyone feel comfortable granting a variance from the sew disposal thing or do you want to see that satisfied why don't just PLL yes dra poll um I certainly want to see it satisfied I want to see it satisfied I agree I agree as well agree I agree keep on Zoom you guys want to see it satisfied yes correct I've already begun that so the entire board wants to see the sewer thing satisfied so they're not going to Grant the variance from that okay can you sh hold the board on the C variants for the deck before you would be in a position if you wanted to vote Yes on the accessory apartment you want to see that deck thing resolve absolutely yes yeah you want to deck res before the apartment yes no I don't think so not for me yes yes yes yes yes yes people on Zoom yes yes so the two variances that he would need tonight the board is not going to Grant tonight they're not going to deny them tonight they're going to Grant an adjournment to see if he can satisfy conditional use five for the sewer but he's going to have to apply new notice is going to go out you're going to get a notice about the C variant for the deck and it's going to be set down some future date they're not going to give you a date tonight that's something that you're going to do with these guys and Amy okay okay so do you have anything to the yeah you'll have to carry the apartment to yeah we're going to have to give him a date Amy when's the next date let me ask Jeff have you seen the draft of his application for the deck or not is it in decent shape or not honestly let me speak as Jackie I'm not hearing I I can't hear you minimal information is required so how we doing what's the next available thank you when the next available date the next thing that we don't have applications on and we have space is June 16th so June 16th I would think that that is plenty of time for him to get that c variance application complete and get notices out so we're going to make an announcement that this applic well is there anything else you want to tell the board that's relevant to this application absolutely I would like to know why his his plan is not signed and sealed when I did my application for my garage they insisted on having a sign and sealed copy from an engineer and he does not have that and his architectural drawing is not signed and sealed when he goes to get his zoning permit and his construction permit it's going to have to be signed and sealed okay to get to the be the board of adjustment for their review it does not have have to be signed and sealed okay because if the board approves it there's going to be a condition that it has to be substantially similar to what's been submitted into the the board file okay anything else um he swore a note to tell the truth and one of the things he did lie about was he had whole renovation done himself there was nothing in that basement when he moved into that property okay um explain to the board the basis for your knowledge the Bas off because he asked myself to do the plumbing over in his residence and he asked a couple neighbors to do the work and myself and the neighborhood electrician up the street denied because he didn't he said he didn't want to get permits for it that's why none of us did the work so again assuming that's true you can't hold that against them when you're judges they can't hold I understand no you quot you quote a law perfectly when you said it before that is correct what what he said however but he did come over here to take an oath to tell the truth and he did not tell the truth so that is a violation that's not to the board well do I stand correct what's what do we say in an oath for correct when you take an oath you swear to tell the truth correct I did and if you want to do more research on it you can find from the materials and stuff that's put in that renovation that it's been when he moved in not before that he did concede that he rebuilt walls he did concede that he changed out there was no walls pictures there was no walls that was opened up matter of fact they had dogs living down there from the residence before that was a riddle family so I don't know how he gets comes up doesn't tell the truth and he's allowed to keep going forward with this process I don't understand that please help me I mean you're saying yeah oh yeah he's not held responsible that but he's also supposed to tell the truth and he's not telling the truth all I can tell you is if you want to do something about it I'm not suggesting you can order a transcript and contact the prosecutor but the board is in the business look I I understand it I understand it so what do it what would the board say anybody have any comment for me I mean and you got to realize this is an old man he's he's preaching not having his father on living there he built this there's no there's no Co we don't know all the trucks that were in there had no names just just so you understand that's how I could testify to that right just so you understand if the board grants this he's going to have to get after the fact uh I understand that but you know what also what the code says that he doesn't have to open up any walls he doesn't have to disturb anything okay so he can he can skape by with a lot here and there's a senior citizen living in this residence is that guys is that true he doesn't have to open up any walls for inspections I'll tell you what they deal with the zon hold on for a second would you agree to a condition that if the board grants the approval if the construction official wants to do an invasive inspection for example he wants to check your framing Behind the Walls or something like that you're going to allow them to do an invasive thing it's going to be patched up at your own cost and expense you agree well well I'd have to now now that you brought it up because correct now that I brought it up so you agree this person standing here who does listen to me listen to me this got nothing to do with him I'm asking you a question yeah I would rather not but yes the answer is yes thank you okay that takes care of that concern anything else right thank you for your time any questions from me for the board at all no no no okay thank you for your time any more questions from the board uh can I have a motion to dismiss without prejudice not dismiss we're not dismissing I'm sorry being carried carried without without prejudice June 16th to June 16th with no need for further not on the apartment right on June 16th to go forward he's going to have to perfect to see variant application for the deck with the notice and and the uh septic uh the the tank correct correct to in other words have that permit ready to go everything ready to go you need I'm going to read the adequate Provisions shall be made for water supply and disposal of sewage in my opinion what that means means is you need a plan that you've had the Board of Health sign off on and Jim Hill will sign it too Jim Hill is your engineer right they want him to sign it too that you want the planning board to sign off no I want your engineer the uh Health Department I want your engineer to sign off and I want the health department something in writing from the health department approving it as being sufficient for the number of bedrooms and the apartment right and just so that you know I was told specifically it's to change the tank listen Okay I I don't I don't care and I don't think they care what what they care about is that the Board of Health is satisfied and I I have one thing to say since I've been besched on record and I'm going to say it okay um I have a problem with my son I don't need a scumbag telling me that I needed a help from the police out of order that was terrible what he did anyway the matter has been continued to the June date yes so have a nice evening thank you we're gonna take a break for five minutes our SEC second application tonight is BOA case uh 10- 2021 app applicant is Esco Precision Incorporated block 36 .02 lot 14 15 and 16 7 11 and 17 Royal Road application preliminary and final site plan with D1 use variants for proposed industrial Flex building um Mr watt before we get started uh I just want to make a comment as board chair and I know I speak from my other uh board members normally we try to um have you work with our experts um to the point where we have a minimal number of major issues um we're at 47 issues on Mr haar's list alone that doesn't include um John Morgan Thomas and our traffic engineer uh for future reference we'd like you to ask your folks to work more diligently with our staff we don't defer um our responsibility to them but there are just so many open issues we've got 22 applications backed up before us and we would ask you to please in the future if you come before this board try to have fewer issues open Mr say something yes I don't represent Mr Watts yes and I'm not just defending him because he's an attorney I think that the comment is misdirected at Mr Watts and should be directed towards the engineer who prepared the plan because I happen to know this application Mr Watts has been trying to get the engineer to do this very thing this thing this is not the first time and because I've seen emails from Mr Watts so well we're not privy to those emails so I apologize to Mr watt go up over Mr Watts and go to the guy sitting in the first row you hear what he's saying yes okay that they don't appreciate the fact that there's still 47 open items because quite frankly if if they had knocked this application off the agenda again this remember this was knocked off um twice number of months ago then they're going to lose a meeting and they're going to get they're going to keep on backing themselves up at the end so quite frankly they're going to spend time tonight that they otherwise wouldn't have to spend if you had done everything that they had asked now if there's something that they asked that you disagree with we're not saying you have to do it but a lot of the stuff on this list are not things that you guys disagree with so I'm directing this at you and in my opinion Mr Watts is totally blameless in this St well I've expressed my apologies but I do direct them to the engineer there are just too many things that are open and also too many things that we didn't receive uh that should have been received before moving forward so with that you understand that appreciate your courtesy in that regard I'm sorry Mr Watts if you want to grab the microphone off the stands yeah you can just pull out of there and you can use that's right you'll hear me until we're off of Zoom you want to swear yeah I'm gonna sweare everyone so who is going to be testifying on behalf of the applicant everybody not anyone that's going to be testifying on behalf of the applicant come over to the table and stand up and anyone who's going to be testifying on behalf of the board who's here tonight stand up [Music] anyone from the on behalf of the board who's on Zoom that's going to be testifying just raise your hand so I can see you okay it looks like we have Jessica and it looks like we have what who I believe is is that like John Ray from uh that is correct yes sir so everyone raise your right hand please other than Mr wats unless you want to testify does everyone who has their hand up right now swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to give in this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do yeah I know Jackie to keep this nice and organized we're gonna start at the end get in front of the microphone when it's your turn identify yourself state your name slowly spell your last name slowly and then identify if what your position is with the applicant or the board as the case may be Brian Eli last name e k h o l y uh and we're the actual applicants okay so the applicant is Esco Precision Inc correct uh yeah what's your position with Esco Precision family business family business are you a shareholder are you the president uh yeah I'm like a the manager I guess of it Mr wats do you know what he is don't know what he is but he is is authorized on behalf of the corporation to testify it is a uh can we call him the the applicant's representative yes okay just so you understand from the beginning of every application I'm already thinking about the resolution okay okay so I don't want to get to the resolution no matter what the resolution is and then have to look up what you were so you are the applicant's representative who is the next person I swore B me uh Adam candil last name k a n d i l applicants engineer okay next Amir L KY you gotta go a lot louder Amir L KY last name e l k h l y uh co- applicant with Ryan okay so you're not the co- applicant because the incorporation is the is applicant so you are what with the co-manager representative you're another representative yeah corre representative okay who's next uh Wayne Ingram i n g r m I'm the applicant's planner you're the applicant's planner not the applicant engineer in this matter correct assar Engineer Expert John Jessica can you go next Jessica Caldwell board planner and last but not least John John Ray Rea I am the zoning board's traffic consultant this evening okay take it away Mr Watts the chairman did a a very good brief summary as to uh this application as you're probably familiar this is the property that's just adjacent to the TD Bank property on uh Royal Road my clients uh are seeking approval to build uh Flex space and on three separate loots and as part of the application we'll also be seeking the uh merger of those loots and the uh proposed uses uh would be for warehouse space office space and research and development so I would like to First call just to be clear you need two D1 variances and the notice provides two D1 variances one is because Flex space is not permitted so under the ordinance it's prohibited and the Second the1 Use uses multiple uses because those are not permitted under the ordinance and that's why you need the second D1 variance correct and then you have some incidental C variances and may be an exception or something but I assume your experts will address them when they get there that's correct all right all right I'd like to have Ryan elky uh give very brief testimony as to uh their plans for this project hello um so just as a background uh me and my brother uh after receiving our phds uh started a company called cerebrus um who called what cerebrus okay you got to spell that c r EB r u s Jackie did you get that no no I did do it nice and slow c e r e b r u s okay and what does cereus do so we do automation engineering both my brother and I are electrical and computer Engineers um so as a background me and my brother we grew up in New Jersey uh we actually we actually spent uh the beginning parts of our lives in Flemington we grew up in Sunridge um so we have our family businesses located in Hillsboro New Jersey and we run out of an 8,000 foot building there uh and we've outgrown it and for many years have been looking for a place to expand into uh and we just found this piece of land uh recently and decided to be the perfect location because we wanted to stay locally so what we're proposing is to build a uh building on it and because we're a small family business uh we would like to occupy a small part of it uh until you know hopefully in the future we're able to expand so because of that uh we would need to to cover expenses as well uh rent out the other portions of it and for that reason to give us more flexibility uh and who can rent it would want flight space but as far as our portion is as far as our portion is concerned learn um like I said we do automation engineering so a lot of what we do is basically design uh and light manufacturing of automation products which deals with B basically assembly getting components and assembling together and then we would also stock and Warehouse uh some of those automation components so you're talking like bearings extrusions things like that we don't there's nothing heavy or uh that involves chemicals anything harmful in nature uh it's a pretty it's a very clean operation another big part of it would be uh the research and development space which is mostly what we're involved with uh which requires you know like lab space for testing electrical testing and things like that um and a lot of the ons just on computers so um that's pretty much what we do uh pretty straightforward do you fabricate bearings in Extrusion no we don't we no we use them these are plastic extrusions uh there's like aluminum plastic extrusions where did you get them from uh Source it from like I'm not getting I asked him if they fabricate the bearings and extrusions and he said yeah we we do not and then I said well where do you get the we Source them from all over like thousands of components that go into our assemblies like you're talking like a linear actuator could hold like you know a 100 different parts I asked them are they plastic extrusions and he said uh both plastic and aluminum sometimes steel but it's very light manufacturing it's not a dirty we don't there's no like heavy Machining or Machinery or anything like that it's not are you're fabricating you're not manufacturing or you consider you're also doing light manufacturing and fabricating uh it's mostly assembly I mean we'll have like a couple things for like maybe punching a hole here and there or something like that but most of what we do is assembly very clean operations in nature the uh devices we build which are electromechanical even uh has to be very clean [Music] environment that's his introduction okay questions anyone have questions Jeff can you give him the microphone so they can Roger I have a couple questions go ahead please Kevin you take the table Li the have one that there you go there you go do do you do any any any heavy fabrication any shearing or bending of material no do any painting powder coating anything like that no any welding no okay thank you can you explain how the automation engineering works I mean are you making um uh yeah so we design mainly on computers we do mechanical design on computers we do the electrical design on computers and anything fabrication is outsourced and we bring stuff in just assemble when when you assemble you primarily assembling by screwing things into each other yes by hand screwing things yeah I I have one question do do you store the power sources such as battery or anything like that no we don't use batteries can I assume this is like an assembly robotic type thing robotics thank you yes sorry I can't believe I didn't say that you're welcome any other questions all right if there's no further questions let's just see if we have anyone in the public there's someone in the public oh you're with him also okay there's no one in the public no and the police are gone yeah and there's no one online from the public yes for the record anyone if this ever has to for the the police was a reference to the last case not this case you don't want to know all right I'd like to at this time call uh the applicants engineer Adam candle you bring that up yeah I think for the board that's here what are you going to be showing is it the sign position the plans okay if that's the case I suggest you give him the handheld microphone if he's gonna and GRE you take the table like you see that can you say that from where you are okay the uh the map that's on the board is entitled preliminary and final site plan proposed industrial Flex building seven Royal Road Lots 14 15 and 16 block 36.029456 revision four2 yeah that's the uh set of plans in the board file you do not have to mark them that thing has consists of 16 sheets is that correct okay all right Mr Candle by whom are you employed uh I'm employed by detail engineering and where is that engineering firm located uh Mountain Lakes New Jersey all right and are you a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey yes I am for how long have you been so licensed uh now seven years and during that time have you uh had an opportunity to prepare plans and testify publicly about the development applications yes I have all right um I would like to have Mr kandle qualified what townships has he been qualified in uh parip hillsbor uh moris Plains um Hillsboro moris PLS uh few few a few not off top of my head right now we're willing to accept him as an expert expert witness thank thank you thank you very much all right Mr kandle would you like to start to get into the engineering aspects of uh this application and including addressing uh the township engineer at some point certainly um so just go through a brief introduction of the plan set and then I'll go into the comments if that's okay yes um so essentially we're looking at as uh Ryan has spoke about the use of it uh light manufacturing uh Flex a flex building um is what we're looking at mainly warehouse and uh Flex components um the the site is situated currently now on 6.4 89 Acres um it's three separate Lots which were actually subdivided for an industrial park um over time so they they allow for the smaller Lots which they were all typically around two feet uh two two acres and they've now been Consolidated to 6.4 Acres um the minimum lot withd in the zone is 200 feet and the site meets uh I won't go through all that but the site um mainly we're looking at the um industrial Flex parking uh which it requires uh 138 parking spaces we are proposing 139 uh the property is situated um Royal Road situated on Royal Road you got to go into that microphone when you yeah the property is situated on Royal Road um and it has industrial to the the rear of it uh TD Bank uh to the south of it and to the east is uh Kinder Kinder Care and to the north is the um is the uh pickle pickle ball um pickle ball facility um also Industrial um the the property drains uh currently drains from north to south uh throughout and there was uh at the time when it was subdivided there was drainage easements that were there for the intent of conveying water from the front to the back um if there was the three sites that were previously subdivided um as per this application the applicant is looking to vacate those easements to allow for one uh one site Consolidated site with one building that would be running through those em let me just interject that was an issue last time and we went to the township committee and the township committee uh was sort of in a catch 22 but the committee's taken a position that if this board grants the relief requested they will also Grant the vacation of the drainage easement right and that's fine the board just want didn't want to go through the whole thing if the township committee is going to say no way certain um additionally to meet the intent of the uh of the site the the project continues to to drain to the South uh West portion of the site um and where we where you see on the proposed conditions we have our uh smallscale uh retention basins on the south end of the site and we also are utilizing the west of the site where there used to be that D Swale and we're also proposing to re line and enhance the soil that is uh that was currently uh there under existing conditions uh any questions with existing before I go on or now I'm moving on I'm moving on to sheet C c03 which is a site plan uh so just to talk I'm G try to move to this side maybe if it's easier uh so as you can see we're proposing a a 69,6 ft uh industrial Flex building uh which has uh in the rear um it's intended that the cereus um and the owner would occupy the first primary unit which would be to the left which is the bigger unit and there would be an additional six units that would be there for for rental um that they would be seeking tenants once the the project is uh uh constructed um the circulation as it works now is the truck trucks would come from South on uh Royal Road and would enter the far access Drive the northern access drive and would go counterclockwise around the building um and the trucks would come they would come counterclockwise around the building is it quickie yeah that's one of the points that the traffic engineer and the township Engineers say you haven't that's what you say but you haven't shown it you don't have templates or anything like that we don't have template we don't have templates for what so they have the template but one of the the I believe the WB 62 correct didn't make all the traffic movements just you understand once we get into their report there are four issues so let's the the D1 Varian is aside for that's why you're here at the boa yeah but you also have appli for site plan approv preliminary and so the board to Grant preliminary site approval not hearing you I'm so sorry Jackie I still am getting used to this I tell everyone else to talking to the microphone then what do I do I said they're here for the two D1 variances that's why the they're at the board of adjustment that's why the board of adjustment is hearing this application and not the planning board but let's assume for argument sake that the board ends up wanting to Grant the two D1 variances in order for you guys to be able to construct the project you need preliminary and final site plan approval and you've applied for that right correct in order for the board to Grant preliminary site plan approval they have to judge the application against all the township ordinance requirements now if you don't comply with some but they've granted variances then you don't have to worry about those but there's also four other things that have to be done because the case law says that a board can't Grant preliminary site plan approval unless the four essential elements of a development have been proven that you have feasibility you don't need permability you need feasibility that's portable water sewage disposal storm water drainage and traffic so when we when the board goes through Tony's report a bunch of these comments go to the essential elements of a development so it's going to end up being my opinion there's a lot of stuff in there that could be conditions but anything dealing with an essential element of a development just like the application before that one for the conditional use with the sewer thing I told the board in my opinion they can't make that a condition of approval so you got to resolve the safe circulation of trucks of fire trucks all that stuff before the board can grant approval so that's so I just want to set the expectations it's 8:30 technically there's enough time to get through the application but I'm just saying even if you do get through the application I'm going to be telling the board they can't even if they wanted to Grant the two D1 variances they can't Grant preliminary site plan approval with some of the things that you haven't done that they've asked for because they go to essential elements of the development just wanted to put that out there in the beginning just so everyone you know no one's surprised at is there an item to address now that is uh specific because I I did provide uh truck circulation I did coordinate with the fire chief this is exactly what we're talking about that this is the stuff that should have been submitted ahead of time because this is technical stuff that Tony and John can review and then they would be able to tell the board no problem I don't think the board I don't think you want to spend your time you got you know you have till 10:00 so you have an hour and a half left I don't think you to burn time correct going through that stuff I think you want to hit the things that you can either take as a condition or you can respond to but anytime you hit something like this I'm going to pipe up and say essential element of a development okay now if you want to talk to the applicant you go for it it's your application but then I can guarantee you're not going to you're not going to finish the main points tonight so I don't know if you guys want to huddle up and talk about how you want to do this or not not uh I think it might be better if we go right to uh Mr haar's letter and go Point by Point that's what I'm thinking all right okay and if there's if there's something in there that's an essential element of a development let's put it aside till the end see how much time you have left I have mr's letter here I have my previous response letter uh we did oh sorry I have uh Tony's uh uh review letter and I have my original uh response letter to it um the original response letter and then we have the review letter I did have a uh the luxury of having a a telephone conversation with uh Tony and the applicant to discuss some of the matters that we thought were critical just go item one he says testimony to be provided what's the the list of potential uses of the building so this was uh testified by by Ryan uh the uses of the building which was uh the industrial Flex building which would include light manufacturing and light manufacturing and um warehousing light manufacturing warehousing and Industrial uh with the office and the research um the research R&D component being ancillary to those uses okay how many employees are anticipated on site um so in talking to Ryan in his for his operation the first the first item is basically there's there are many uses that applies to the i1 and the I2 so we want to make sure some of the uses that are they applying for are what the board will accept so what these guys are saying is they want to know we know the board knows and the applicants professionals know that Flex space is not permitted you need a D1 variance they want to hear which of the permitted i1 and I2 uses do you contemplate being in the building they want you to tell them because then they want to go down the list and there might be some i1 and I2 uses that they think are not appropriate for the property they want to scratch them off the list so why don't you go through the list of i1 and I2 and say yeah this this could be in the building or this won't be in the building so what I understand is contemplating now um they they are not looking for like a um at the moment they're not looking for like a child care facility understand but listen you're not listening yeah go into the ordinance right now open it up look at the list of i1 and I2 go down each one and say yeah this this could be there or this could not be there I believe the the proposed uses have been set forth before and that would be Warehouse okay so okay so we can do it that way sure whatever you list if the board Grant it there'll be a condition you can't have anything else just so you understand I'm gonna I'm going to make it a condition normally in some of these applications we've let people say well okay you know we want multiple uses to D1 variants so they don't want to foreclose themselves in the future from having to come back again so we have them go through the i1 and I2 list and take off instead of just saying what you permit yeah it's in the ordinance book you want to give them the i1 and I2 should I continue going through the other one no let's let's deal with this first before we move on let's get this squared away this is the sort of thing if the engineer had submitted this in writing after getting Tony's report I did you went through the i1 and I2 list yeah what was contemplated on the opition submitted right I understand but do okay look you if you want to do it that way you can but that's going to limit you understand it's going to limit you what these guys are suggesting is more expansive yeah here's a microphone go nice and slow Ryan El Coy the representative start I i1 so as far as uh B1 manufacturing obviously we would go for that um two business administrative two business and administrative offices and research facilities yes administrative offices and research facilities can I just say B1 B2 yeah uh B3 any form of Agriculture or horiculture including commercial no said no no Mr drill please we're making a list of the yeses and the NOS for the i1 number one he's going to he said number one and two and he described them as a yes and he got to number three Agriculture horiculture and he said no four commercial indoor Recreation facilities yes E5 primarily wholesale uses with limited retail sales yes B6 professional office including Surgical Center uh yes industrial uh well professional offices including sural Center uh if you do that talk about high parking requirement if you do that they might ask for a higher parking requirement maybe you just want professional offices professional professional offices only and no Surgical Center it was for parking okay so you want okay professional offices in surgical centers okay uh B7 Child Care Center is that a yes or a no yes B8 solar and photo voltaic energy facility no I2 okay so that's you you've now gone through the i1 correct so everything's a yes except for number three Agriculture and horiculture and number eight solar those are the two nodes correct correct correct uh so now I2 um B one is those permitted i1 so just the ones that we mentioned M uh two warehousing wholesale distribution yes B3 Trucking terminal no B4 public parks public recreational facilities and uses no B5 hotels motels no uh B6 child child care center which was same as an i1 is a and B7 solar and photo voltaic energy facility no okay the next question he asked is how many employees are anticipated on site and what are the hours of operation uh so our hours of operation would be between 7 and 5: 7:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. right but that's you what about the tenant spaces um we probably limited from 6: to 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and is this uh 7 days a week Monday through Friday or what uh Monday through Friday and deliveries and deliveries deliveries are deliveries going to take place during those hours or deliveries going to take place before or after those hours during those hours uh maybe I'll to what you say not hearing usy Jackie right now no one they're talking to themselves there's no tesy right nowry did I say 6: am to 6m yes yeah okay there is no limitation in I in i1 and I2 let's ask this what are the properties surrounding this property it's industrial it's all okay so does it matter to the board hours of operation here it's kind of arbitrary well it's not it doesn't matter to the board so my suggestion deliveries off hours would be better so I don't think there's any limitation at least in my eyes right so if you want to ask the board to have no limitation to hours of operation have no limitations please and would the board have a problem with seven days a week since it's an industrial Zone not where this is located um there are none no hours in i1 and I2 is that right not unless it uh borders a residential right and it's not in a in the B they have the hours so no limitation on hours of operation and if you want to go seven days a week let's do it sure ask for it yes can I'll ask for it okay so now go to number two number two is an essential element of development so they say provide testimony regarding the RTM report dated September 29 2021 to ensure adequate capacity for the site and all uses within the site yes we have adequate adequate capacity okay well we had this issue I I can I can address that as I represent the authority and and there is an allocation to this site and uh when they get a use in there they're going to have to go to RTM it's either going to be by square footage or by number of employees and the applicants going to have to fit within the total capacity allocated to that site right and the board imposed a condition on which application Pioneer which was Flex face uh the condition was something to the effect that they had the applicants engineer do a rough calculation doing it by square foot and by number of employees and saying that based on the allocation they got from the RT muua they were not allowed to exceed x square feet and X number of employees unless they got an additional allocation from the RTM which is unlikely now so so what would happen is when they get a new use or change in use they're going to have to go to RTM and show an engineering report that shows what capacity will be needed for that new use and it has to fit within the total allocation for the site okay what is the total allocation for the site 1500 gallons 1500 Perot which is so it's 1500 time three lots is 4500 Jeff just check the paperwork to make sure that's accurate based on 4500 gallons per day what's the maximum number of square footage or the maximum number of employees the RT muua would approve and this might be one for Mr Watts for warehouse SP it's a 10 of a uh it's a tenth of a gallon per square foot for office it goes by employee so it would it would depend on on the mix so all right we I'm asking if you have 4500 gallons per day what's the maximum number of employees you could have on the site based on the RT muua formula it depends on the use you could have a use in there that is a uh that's a health club with showers and water and that would take up a lot so I can't tell you that it depends on the particular use right but this is what we did in the other application they went back to the uses and they said okay which of those uses would use the most amount of water and they tried to pick the use that used the most and they put the cap on that one so I would think looking at this thing probably Child Care would probably use more I mean use more manufacturing doesn't use a lot of water does it but I think uh in in this application um when they brought the property there was a limitation on each lot so that was even them getting approved here or getting deemed complete they were able to reserve that capacity which was going to be you understand what I'm trying to do yeah but my point is there's 4,500 gallons a day for the merge site right and how it's allocated amongst the flex uses depends on the use so I'm not sure you can say you can pigeon hole each one now I think the way to deal with it is uh applicant you have to stay within 4500 gallons a day you could have all warehouse space and you'd be fine but if you put in a if you put in a healthcare facility you're going to limit yourself because you're not going to have much capacity yeah but I want to say I want to use real examples healthc care facilities aren't allowed all right I'm just trying to think of one that has a very high same with me I'm looking at the list and I'm thinking that it doesn't look like to me any on this list because you took agriculture off agriculture uses a lot of water but they still have to meet your requirement they would still have to get a CER ific of compliance from RTM you guys all right with this that way or not or do you want to do it the way we did it with Pioneers huh what was what did the condition say identify yourself grab the mic uh Wayne Ingram applicants planner and you happen to be one of the experts Pioneer development right so so best of your recollection what did the conditions say my recollection is that we we basically made it so anytime there was a change in tency the applicant would provide a full accounting of the US in the building and provide them to uh Tony or representative of his office and have that reviewed to confirm that it fits what with the capacity that the site obtained so we don't have to be specific about use you're right you're right that's what the that's what the board did is the applicant okay if the board does that in this application yes so I'm going to write down same condition regarding sewer as pioneers conf yes just for the record they do have a letter dated March 10th 2021 um stating that above lots have 15,000 gallon per day five edus of capacity reserved for each lot 15, 150000 I'm sorry I'm sorry okay so in my opinion they've satisfied feasibility of sewer for this testimony and by agreeing to uh the imposition of that condition so why don't you take it from here Tony go down the rest of the list I'm already losing my voice so I don't know do you bring an exhibit for the W6 it's actually John ask sh so slightly going over the rear but microphone microphone so this is an exhibit dated what uh we're going to date it today if possible it's a brand new exhibit okay so this is going to be exhibit A1 and can you have another copy or this the only copy u i I have one that I'd be presenting with okay so get yours get your exhibit up there on the board let's mark it as A1 let's identify it for the record now if you guys tell me that you want the board's traffic engineering expert to be able to review it then let's not waste the time it's now 10 of nine because he obviously doesn't have a copy of no can we zoom in on the exhibit so he could then they won't be able to see it I understand one here that's the extra one there yeah just turn it towards turn it towards the camera you can leave it on the easel just yeah bring the easel over bring it to theer camera she'll zoom in on that now Mr Ray if if this is a problem and you say this is no way to run a railroad I want to see it tell the board but if you're okay doing it this way then they want to do it this way it's their application yeah Mr drill I I it's very hard for me to see this and since we're gonna have it appears as though we're gonna have another meeting uh I'd like to have an opportunity to uh see the plan and and lay you know our turning radius templates on it to make sure everything's been done properly okay so in that case let's not mark it as exhibit A1 just submit it submit it tomorrow to the board it will go out to all the experts that be a condition no no no this is going to be carried we're not changing our configuration of the parking you understand an essential element of the development is you got to prove that you can have adequate traffic circulation the board's traffic engineer because you didn't submit the ahead of time you're bringing it in tonight he wants to see it which is a reasonable request also this is a document quite frankly I was going to stretch on this a little that the board has to approve which should have been filed 10 days before the hearing which it wasn't so you're going to you're going to end up having to come back on this issue alone but there might be a couple others that's all I'm saying but this is one of the things that should have been submitted 10 days before the hearing so let's not mark it as an exhibit have submitted the re I I would like to testify to the fact that in in the initial it seemed to be adequate in the initial and I wanted to talk to with the owner talking about how with the um with the um the employee parking in the back that that's employee parking in the back that would be utilized for maneuvering um and and and there was a small portion that was going over the parallel parking uh in the top left and all all we did I I I wasn't as conscious when we had it I wasn't as conscious when we first ran it but I I did run it again more conscious of the fact of that one uh parking line in the in the upper in the upper left corner which is the South Southeast most portion right here and I was just more conscious of it not going over that parallel parking and running it again I didn't modify the truck or the configuration of the parking lot but you I will submit it that Mr Ray says that he's not in the position to say yeah you're right about that or not tonight he wants to see it number one number two under the municipal land use law any document that needs board approval and this is one of them because it's an essential element of the development this is has to be on file 10 days before this has not been on file 10 days before so we appreciate the explanation Mr Ray you heard the explanation correct I heard the explanation but uh we we'd like to see it on paper I just can't you know even when we zoom in on the exhibit I I can't see it clearly enough to uh render an opinion tonight on whether it's uh workable or not okay Tony go to your next item this is going to this is going to be to be submitted prior to approval did you ever send me the letter from the Fire Marshall saying that yeah yeah I hearded the email from tennis okay hold on hold on hold on let's see if that was Amy we have an email from the Fire Marshall uh his review letter is in the the packet it's dated March 31st 2022 is that you talking about his March 31 review letter no separately um I I sent him uh an email in coordination and asking him what truck to utilize for truck turning uh so we can properly demonstrate that it works and the truck that we were using he said was sufficient and that it's similar to that that the township has right can you do you have a copy of that email um I don't have it printed I do I have it on my phone but I don't have it printed now have you guys seen a copy of the email I don't remember that's why I you have a copy of the email I haven't seen the email now I mean again that's that's an essential element of the development um I mean that one doesn't have to be on file 10 days before but we need something from the Fire Marshall saying that you use the right template for that truck and the truck can circulate who should I forward it to the email you can send it to me send it to send it to and a copy to Tony okay going at your phone let's see if we can knock this one out yeah did you send it yeah I S it to Tony John my my concern here is um Tony's review is dated March 15 this letter from dayel is dated February 23rd there should have been a reply to oh I I've already told them this three ways I know we're we're wasting time here I understand they in I suggested that they go to the non-c contentious items and just but they're entitled to do their case how they want this is what that's what they want to do let them do it so I see I see an email from I wish that he would do it a different way but they're not but he's not and again this got nothing to do with Greg there is an email from the Fire Marshall and it's sa satisfactory okay for the item so that item is going to be marked as satisfied what's the date of the email February 18th Amy I received it once print it out stick it in a file distribute it to everybody all right John do you want this to be marked in exhibit or no no no no no let's get it into the file because they're they're coming back no matter what um what's the next comment the S40 yeah the Su 40 wasn't provided okay what is an Su 40 it's a buck truck like GS truck you have something on the su4 what what is that umy what were you saying it's Tony's comment number six his H third bullet actually fifth bullet so we um you have [Music] the Jackie break in five minutes yeah and the question what the circulation on the Su 40 is for deliveries yes in general he says Su what he wants is he wants proof that the Su 40 can enter and exit the North and South Overhead Door locations oh so going to that that that's not used for trucks to go in and out that's only for a forklift what for a forklift the so I was asked to design the overhead for a for two yeah that's only for a forklift access okay all right so you're going to that's going to be a condition to put on the plans you specify that that's forklift only so note to be added to plans stating that I mean the North and South Overhead Door locations are for forklifts only so let me ask you this that means you're going to be doing outdoor yeah that's outdoor loading and unloading that's not allowed outdoor loading and unloading with regards to what the operation yeah everything's supposed to take place in the building there's an ordinance that says that loading loading outside they're going to be loading from the truck from the the purpose for the [Music] okay can can you can you grab a microphone identify yourself and explain that's not for delivery sometimes there's like certain structures that we install that need a wide door or something that we come in come out and take off and put it in it's like rarely used maybe a few times a year it's not it's not for like FedEx but why couldn't you use the uh because they're not put on the trucks the higher trucks so you're saying that the sometimes you have to come from the side load side loading or something it's so you're saying these the North and South doors are ground level ground level yeah they're used a few times here explain again what you're taking inside or outside and where it's sometimes sometimes we'll have like a Long Bar Extrusion that we spoke of and it's you pick it up from the side they're wide pieces they don't go in like regular trucks that you pull from the rear so you just come pick it off the side of the flatbed and you bring it in why is there a height to it is is it too high what's the problem the way you pick it up yeah but the fork can't the fork withth come up four feet to get to the overhead door what do you mean you have overhead doors for the trucks aren't those Overhead Doors four feet over ground level because the truck's about four feet but the forlift would be on the same level the point is some trucks are like flatbeds and sometimes there's structures that we install or something that gets that is like a permanent thing that you pick it up from the side of the flatbed truck you couldn't do that from those rear loading docks because I think I understand what he's saying do you understand what he's saying Jeff can you just grab the or like the flat bed will come to the side you come in pick it up and let's just see if if they need if they need not for like daily deliveries or anything like that John while Jeff is looking for that why don't we take a break for five minutes just to um let Jackie rest her fingers good idea June back Jackie are we back on yes we are yep okay so the application is going to be continued without need for further notice to June 16th it's going to go with rakan again ran is going to go first hopefully he will have satisfied that sewer thing and then he's going to have the Chairman's going to put a limit on how much time rakan has one hour one hour to do his uh everything that c variant you guys are going to have revised the plans to comply with all the expert reports I before I leave the building tonight I'm going to give Amy my copies of these reports so you can have all my markups I've marked them up so that I put C for condition if I felt something could be imposed as a condition to get a preliminary and then that's on the lefthand side on the right hand side if I felt something was an essential element of a development that means I felt that it had to be done before the board could approve it and other things I didn't know I was going to play it by ear and see what Tony and all the experts had to say so my advice is the engineer every single thing they ask for just give it to them put it on the plans and give it to them unless you object to something then you come in but if you come back on June 16th right after having submitted Plans by June 6th 10 days before June 16th that comply with with everything there won't be anything to go over in their reports all they'll have to do is the two D1 variances there's a couple C variances and there's at least one exception that's the plan now do they have is there a time to decide that has to be extended here we had an extension for the board um to May 31st so let's get an extension to August 30th applicant agrees okay so that's the plan so Amy so again the application anesco precis Inc is being carried and continued to June 16th they're going to be second on the agenda but get here for 7 o'clock assume that the first application gets screwed up somehow so it doesn't go then you have the whole meeting to yourself and I am now going to take Tony and Jeff's report dated March 15 Jay troutman's report dated April 5 and John Thomas's report dated November 3 2021 which should be dated April 6 2022 and I'm going to give them to Amy and ask her after the meeting to make Co to make five copies so you can have one for the file and the applicant can have four and I can have my originals back anything else no no um anyone have any questions or comments I mean unless unless maybe they should go through the items that testimony is required this way we don't have to waste time next next meeting it's all right with okay you're going to lead them through which ones need testimony Amy let me have my reports back that that's actually a good use of time let's let's stay with Tony's report so number nine will this building follow lead standards or New Jersey direct install testimony to be provided uh speaking with the architect uh they they are not planning on using uh on the on the building being lead standard or NJ direct but it would be modern building constructed which is aesthetically pleasing and meeting all the uh upto-date U regulations there's no ordinance requirement for that is there no okay the next testimony number 58 58 testimonies is required regarding the office and research development use within the building I just think you explain when you said research it's just research on the computer or what is anything else so our R&D involves like a lot of like research on the computer testing with like uh you know light electrical equipment you know we hook up Motors to like amplifiers and run motors for robots just for testing programs and things like that so that type of R&D okay and what type of office usage I mean just billing yeah like administrative and design engineering design I have a question Does it include prototypes does include what prototypes yeah we prototype yeah and how big are those compared to the manufacturing and I mean robots could be this big or electromechanical devices could be this big so nothing crazy yeah so what we're looking for for this item is really on on on the tenant space that you're going to using we we want to see the the layout of the office and the research lab because based on the site plan and the architecturals it doesn't match so on that EX on the exhibit as well which I have here um I I did superimpose the The Architects plan the answer is you're going to have an you're going to have a document submitted that will answer his question correct yes so we submitted as two separate documents we had the architectural plan separate with the site plan separate and now we will submit it superimposed it was always superimposed the footprint was always there but the layout wasn't visible on the site plan so you're going to have a coordinated drawing of both architecture and site plan to submit to address this item correct that's correct it was submitted but it wasn't shown in the in the uh it wasn't uh superimposed to see okay so it wasn't visible what are you going to submit to to show it then similar to what's on the exhibit that's in front of Tony you you want yeah yeah okay so you know what he's talking about I mean again there's nothing labeled so maybe it's a couple labels to make sure what's going on in there okay or the other way to do it is basically just give us a square for the Office Square for the research lab and submit the architecturals with it you have the architectural exhibit too but the architectural plan submitted did have the U they did have square footage of yeah of office it did not match the site plan that was the yeah so the the site plan was revised to match the architecturals that were already submitted yeah but we we never got the architectural so I don't know what was changed yeah yeah that it was in that's what I was saying it was in reverse order so the architecturals that were already submitted we submit our site plan to the the latest site plan was to conform and coordinate with the previously submitted architectural you know understand what he's talking about so I'm assuming the architecturals that were submitted at the beginning job are not going to changed the architecturals that were submitted in the last submission which were the ones dated um architectural which was the ones dated December 2 second at that point those the December 22nd 2021 yeah that's Tony so that's your final architecturals that was the latest submitted correct and then this exhibit is now showing the signage what exhibit uh an exhibit I brought with me to show signage okay so okay that's the exhibit that hasn't been submitted yet correct that's one that was requested by to to bring a submission uh for signage so you're saying the signage exhibits going to take care of the layout of the office and research lab questions no to clarify to clarify there was an elevation plan that was submitted the architectural I have no idea what's going on look that is the latest architectural plan dated December 22nd 2021 I do not understand what I understood you want a layout of the auths and research lab to be submitted and to to be consistent with the site plan that's correct okay I do not understand what he's saying is going to be done to do that okay so I think he updated because you're saying there's a mismatch so the architectural from December is the same he said he updated the site plan to match and that was in his that's correct but what he's saying it hasn't been submitted this is the exhibit okay so what all right so just to clarify those architectural plan submitted December 2021 those were the latest and greatest architecturals that were already submitted in the possession of the board and the professionals is this consistent with the site plans that are last revised revision number four dated February 11 2022 that is correct Tony says in his review that it's not so who's right here here's the architectural there's the site plan spend the time doing it not really but I thought we were going to make some progress but I'm glad that we actually hit this problem because we'll hit it again so can you show us maybe that's the way to do it can you show us where Tony can see let me let me take a step back so the issue is they submitted site plan they didn't submit the architecture so we didn't know what was changed whether so it may have been changed I'm not sure can you just show us yeah so get the architectural of the applicant space Here's the architectural and show us where it's on the site plan and then Tony can say whether he's satisfied or whether he wants something else I think the first thing he's going to say is that none of that is dimensions it's just a bunch of lines drawn in and I know there's a scale on it and he could scale it off there's the mentioned okay has the break building mates building industrial area which matches uh the industrial area but and then you have and then office area you have the office area and you have the research the when we submitted the first go around when we started breaking down into warehouse and office it was requested that all the parking be done on Flex so this is the building size where's the building size right here okay 69 262 and that's on the site for if you go here 69 26 to match the already submitted okay and where does that 69 whatever show up on this architectural plan right there the total gross FL area what's it say 69266 69266 gross Flo area so but where's the layout that we want here for well that's why I submit on the exhibit no no no no no no no forget that exhibit on the stuff that's submitted that's it this it's submitted here this is coordinated this footprint is the layout is not shown on the site plan that's what we were looking that's that's why he asked on the most recent review and we did that okay that's where Okay show can you show that to me you've done that can I see the exhibit yes okay this was submitted tonight yeah okay but the original layout listen would you forget the original yeah this was submitted tonight right that's what you wanted I haven't reviewed it but I understand but just take quick look and see if that has the information on it that you want and if it doesn't tell him what else you want on it and no matter what he's got to submit that so I'm not looking for the detail the architectural giv detail I just wanted this area where the research going to happen and where the offices are and the rest is the warehouse can you if he labels this will that yeah I mean I can't really tell I mean this is conference room where's the research lab that you would refer to architectural cuz we for redundant we don't want to be redundant so we refer to the architectural drawings so in our notes we go to the architectural drawings then we show the like do a box office and a box research lab and the area matches yeah I could do that we want on the plan I can do I've I've never done that before but I will do it okay [Music] so again layout of office and research lab is going to be added to the site plan and submitted item 62 the plans do not indicate whether a proposed emergency generator is going to be installed what Tony is suggesting is if you think you're going to do it put it on the plan now otherwise you're going to have to come back yeah we okay so what is it we we we show we showed a location but we will we will since we're updating new plans we will show it there clearly there's a where does it show there's a location for the the TR can you show us on the site plan where it is well the the Trent so the the generator the generator the generator the backup power generator where is that shown on the site plan yes so I was going to I was actually draw in no I understand you were going to draw it in you just said it was on the plan is it on the plan now or not no it's not okay so revise the plan if you want a generator to put the generator on the Plan Building or okay we're trying to you see if you don't put it on the plan and you come back for a generated you're going to be back here again not that we don't like you they don't want to see you back you certainly don't want to see us again 63 par signs were provided however testimony to be provided for the benefit of the bo what one is this 63 yeah B basically you're saying no no Tony that's not 66 I'm sorry 71 7 transform 66 63 is a Transformer that's right I'm sorry yeah so the seven spots in the back are designated as employee parking yeah let's let's go to 63 first please do it in order please 63 so 63 will will revise the plans to show the generator um I it was not initially contemplated but because they know that Transformer oh the the Transformer is shown on that so that's where I was confused the Transformer is shown on the show us where it is because maybe we [Music] missed here right this look right down there that's the uh that's the latest and [Music] greatest okay so that one's that one's good Tony correct yes okay on how about 67 the guard rail um Tony wants it along the entire rear curve you guys if you agree can you stick it on the plans if you don't agree can you explain why so on the we we did put it on the south and the other areas but in that area we do have a curve and the grade wasn't too severe so we weren't intending to put it there if it's required we will put it but we were not intending to put it there because there is a curb there yeah but the curve is not going to prevent like guide rail the depression there was it was about one foot so it's at your discretion if you require it we'll put it you want the guard rail he says it you want the guard okay he wants the guard rail we'll show it now [Music] 71 again this is for the employee aring you provided to sign on the plan but for the benefit of the board just give him a testimony yeah so the idea and speaking with the client the idea would be that the people were working in receiving or packaging that they would be parking in the back if they were you know basically if they're utilizing that there or even the business owner would have a spot in the back so that's the intent for the employee parking in the back there it just seemed suitable it doesn't have to be but it it seemed like it'd be suitable because the owner the business owner could maneuver in or out s side okay number 777 this is where you have an exhibit for the color scheme and dimensions correct so the the um so you're going to submit it yeah we're not going to go through testimony tonight you going to submit it now should be part of the site plan correct and you should discuss with them don't unilaterally do it discuss with them get it to the point where they're satisfied with then includeed with the site plan at least 10 days before the next before June 16 now there was a detail submit on the site plan was that adequate Tony those the detail on the back was that adequate on the site is that what it is yeah okay is that what it is well does it show Does it show the colors you you wanted the material and the color the detail says it's going to be a white sign with I just want to make sure that's what you're proposing yeah clear and anything changes coming back yeah clear anodized aluminum okay so you're now satisfied with that one if this what they want yes hey are you guys satisfied with what he has on the plan for the sign I'm marking that one off satisfied 78 78 freestanding sign sha and Chet 10 7 spaces for tenants number of tenants well they they did this right they said they would be the primary 1 2 3 four five six they have six tenants plus them is seven that's the seven spaces is that correct that is correct that's satisfied now right yes 79 so this is this is a could be could be a condition of approval this could be a condition of approval the wording it which should say one instead well change it yeah I'll change it it's up to you I'll change it right if you're changing the rest you might as well do it now it will cut down the number of changes you got to do later now Tony look at 80 does what they have now satisfy you or you're looking for something in addition just yeah it's been a while yes h what what your comment says all signs have to adhere to the site plan the sign plan with the same uniformity height and color scheme that's out of the ordinance so you just have to to tell us if that site plan has enough detail on it that show that this ordinance requirement is met yeah so we will need the height we got the color scheme of yes microphone please no the from the ground up the elevation yeah on the elevation for the I'm I'm really not can you guys use your microphones Jackie is not hearing any of this sorry do you want the elevation on my plan or the or the um or the architectural okay okay okay so what is he GNA add to these plan he's gonna add what he's gonna add see here we have height he's gonna add height the height the elevation from the ground to the bottom of the sign so everything is all the signs are at the same elevation [Music] okay 10 okay next is 82 the plan shall be revised to depict the proposed wall at the Northeast parking area I believe that's a tiple right you believe that's a what night that that's correct it should be tww instead of TC yeah okay what do you want he had it labeled as DC BC and DC instead of okay just tell me what does he have to do just Pi the typo just typo just like the one in a I'm G listen I know all about typos okay fix the typo 85 the plan shall be revised to provide pipe profiles for all storm water conveyance including roof leaders the profile sh shall include all utility Crossings with inverts Tony says the pipe profiles have been provided in the storm water management report on an 8 and 1 half1 sheet but they shall they need to be revised to full sizee and include the utility and pipe Crossing information you want them part of the site plans yes full full sheet for every uh run yes okay well you could put them together as long as we could read them okay so add pipe profiles to the site plan correct show The Crossing as well okay yes yes correct okay now number 86 right here's I have a comment says you didn't propose a hot box or a meter pit in their experience one of those two structures are going to be required by New Jersey American water and if they require a hot box it's going to have to comply with all the applicable structural setbacks because if it doesn't they're going to have to come back again so he's suggesting that you find out what they're going to require and the approximate area I took I took Tony's advice on that and I looked at the specs of um American Water the P hasn't designed it fully but what we're going what we did and we agreed on conservatively we'll show a box based off of what we're showing uh of the of the service coming in which would be eight a 9 by 18 bux so remember when you add this box to the site plan do you know can you can you comply with the setbacks or you going to need a variance well it it will be put it this way you ready for this most likely it's going to be a front yard variant front okay you're going to need a front yard variant so we already put it on the plans it's on those plans already yeah we already put the request for a water water meter to be as a variance and it was in writing it's not sh he says it's on the plant can you show us show them where it's on the pl the bo is well the the meter yeah right there where yeah it's right there yeah the Water Bolt microphones please the the miror pit is the hot box is basically for the what do you call it I so the thing the the thing Tony though we don't we usually don't determine what is required the water company would be the one I understand that's why Tony is suggesting you contact the water company to find a general area listen I've had this come up in Readington yeah three times now they when the app app ANS engineers get the comment in the Readington thing they call up New Jersey water and most likely New Jersey water is going to say this you're going to want it within X number of feet yeah of the the road so invariably it's going to need a front yard variance so Tony just wants you to uh if you go to the New Jersey American Water website they have all the specs on there just show it yeah so we did that and then on the cover shows the meter pit you're showing the meter pit you're not showing the hot box yeah and and also what we did and you understand the meter pit is underground is undergr no one sees it the hot box is above ground explain to the board what the purpose of the hot box is so the hot box is in case it's like a like freezing temperatures or something like that that's maintaining a proper proper basically a back flow preventor so the water doesn't go back to the system and it's above ground so they put heaters in it and that's why they call it a hot box with insulation it's insulated box but it's above ground so it's an accessory structure and you can see it and generally New Jersey American water makes you put it in front between the street and the building and invariably they want it close to the street so invariably it needs a front yard variant at minimum and maybe also a setback variant so Tony is trying to you know eliminate that you come in for a construction permit and then you kind of come back for the variant so if you can find out their minimum and maximum from the street and put approximate location then we'll know an approximate variant and I'm going to go out in a limb here and say that that Greg's notice is going to have it covered because it had any and all other variances and this is an accessory structure and I'm going to say that you do not have to Ren notice go ahead I was going to say per that advice we we did put on our cover sheet in the previously submitt plans to put meter water box Outlet structure uh water quality device what letter on the cover sheet of of our plans we we added multiple things they didn't show the location we wouldn't know the location we don't yeah okay but we just can't give them some floating bar but just one thing uh John just one thing cuz I've done sites like this and when we go to construct maybe two years from now and that's why I have a question for the board is what would happen if American water changes their regulations at that time it may be a different structure are we Stillen coming back to the board again may have to come back you find out at the time they because I've had it happen where you have a site approved and then they change their standards two years down the line we're just he's actually trying to forecast or predict what possible additional relief you're going to need we you know we don't have a crystal ball so that could happen but at least if you if you find out for the minimum and the Max and you like put a circle or something on there listen listen then the board will know if it's going to Grant the variance for that which my guess is they probably will because it's you could say it's inherently beneficial accessory structure because it's going to keep the water from not freezing then they'll at least have a parameter you know no closer than this no further away than that's something at least to give you a shot but not having to come back so Tony what do we so so number 131 no 86 the plan should be revised to depict potential structure so it doesn't have to be let's say to depict the approximate location of potential structures such as a hot box okay 103 what you the next item is 103 testimony but I just want to say basically you have a gravity system design and pressure dozing design just put whatever is relevant to to your design don't have both because contractor will be confused I don't know which one to use you know and now this this is one it's a detail that if you want final site plan approval you got to take care of this now are those details available in CAD because I requested it from the M mua and it's only PDF so it's hard to break up the PDFs it just comes in three sheets of PDFs I don't know no I mean use the snip tool you take whatever you need and leave the rest out okay will do um 105 is another detail yeah right so again if you want final site plan approval you got to have these details on there I mean if you said I'll give it you know condition we do that I I would tell the board oh you can yeah you can grant preliminary subject to that condition but without the detail I'm going to tell them you can't Grant final site plan approval so just take care of that detail same thing for 107 same thing 108 same thing 128 same thing okay 131 needs testimony storm water management report on page 14 States the proposed retention Basin meets the annual recharge while the subsurface exploration and geotechnical Report states that quote as discussed with your design engineer in you during the field work on December 20 20 20 per perme per permeability permeability tests proposed were not feasible due to the presence of shallow Rock Andor groundwater levels within the test pits end quote so Tony says give some testimony to clarify the inconsistencies between those two statements yeah so we made it within the parameters of the design we made assumptions in that the um the existing elevation of the Basin area we're actually building up the basin and we're proposing that the area where there's fractured shell or um or or impermeable soils that we be removing that and replacing them with K4 soils um we did meet with Tony in the pre-application we understand that even whatever system we proposed that we would have to you know have some insitu tests done while we're at there so he they're required to do recharge for their storm water okay but they haven't done the test testing and we didn't witness any Tes so he wants that as a condition of approval well I'd give that as a condition of preliminary approval but how would you grant a final approval subject to seeing if you can do it in the first place and it's a requirement well they understand if it doesn't work they they would have to come back that's correct really if it doesn't work you're going to come back you willing you guys willing to take that risk or do you want to find out if it works or not between now in [Music] June I mean we're we're raising it we're raising it 3T so when we eliminate that there if we did a basin flood at that point removing the soils it we anticipate that it should work they're asking to so this condition be a conditional approval that's okayy put it this way because we haven't witnessed any t hold hold on I got to think this one I got to think this one through there's no question that this could easily be a condition of approval for a preliminary site plan approval when you do a final site plan approval it's supposed to be all the details so Wayne think of a condition that could satisfy them granting final site plan approval where you're supposed to have all the details but they don't have this detail and by the way it's a requirement of I assume the D the D Rags yeah say what you're saying this if they don't meet this it'll shut down the whole project yeah I don't see how you Grant final site plan approval unless they satisfy this njde requirement okay so let let me ask you this one if we were to do what they're asking put it as a condition so put it this way and they move ahead this doesn't pass their project comes to screeing project comes to a screeching halt I just don't know if I could in good conscience right because they because then they would spend money anding no no because because before you Grant final approval all the details are supposed supposed to be there for what's required by ordinance and the RAR Township ordinance incorporates by reference those njde regs which require them to do this retention here okay and they haven't done the testing to see if the retention can be done it's like one of these uh these Catch 22 things got to be done the answer is if do to testing that's what Wayne is suggesting I gotta tell you the more I think about it this is also a storm water management issue which is an essential element of the development it could even impact the preliminary I know that I'd feel uncomfortable telling up the Grand Final without this I think between now and June you got to do the testing and you have to be able to satisfy the requirement so so when we met initially the condition of approval you understand he has not done a test he put it on the piece of paper okay and he says this is what we plan to do he hasn't done a test so he doesn't know if that's going to work or not that's the problem in a nutshell correct well we did the Geotech who who did the testing he he's the one who issued the report and we were looking at the groundwater so we are there is adequate groundw there and if it were to fail we could propose a bio retention Bas in in the same in the same footprint that's what you have to do before they be in a position to grant the final approval yeah that's that's why this the testing needs to be done so on this one I had written in the right hand side essential element of a Development I've just circled it you got to get this testing you got to do this this this cannot simply in my opinion be a condition of approval you need this so that they can grant the approval and I'm not talking about the D1 variant talking about the site plan okay I got the same thing with 132 yeah the rest of them are just stuff that you and 133 this all comes down to uh testing for the storm water stuff 131 132 133 everything else is basically there's not no more testimony in that report yeah so so I mean do you understand that 131 132 and 133 requires testing yeah they're they're all together yeah this is what we this is what we discussed in the pre-application meeting because at that time the Geotech report was already done so it was asked if we should do testing or 143 to 145 right I could probably be be all right with them being conditions of approval for preliminary but I'm not going to be all right saying that condition of final if you want final you got to take care of 143 144 145 so look at them see if you have a problem with any of that I should do with yours what I just did with his okay yeah I'd like uh to go through the landscape report then thas issu April on April 6 correct John before we leave this um 136 137 um mentions variances uh one of the things I'd like to see is a summary of the variances that they have that on the plan I okay fine all right that's exactly what I want okay give a list 8 and half by list 8 and a half by 11 of all the variances and the exceptions you need so they can you can hand it out in the board can have them sides yeah you guys clarify that did you look yeah yeah let's let's take care of this right now what what ordinance section 296 what's it say nice and slow microphone any use not designated as a principle permitted use or permitted accessory use or a conditional use is specifically prohibited from any Zone in the township slow slow slow start again go slow I'm sorry any use not designated as a principal permitted use a permitted accessory use or a conditional use is specifically prohibited from any Zone in the township all uses shall be conducted within a building or structure unless otherwise permitted the issue is if the he he says they're not going to be doing assembly or fabrication outside what he said is they get deliveries of some long pieces of material that are not coming in an enclosed tractor trailer or a box truck they're coming in a flat bed and when the flat if the flat bed backed up to the loading dock whatever it is coming off the thing which I don't exactly understand why you couldn't just turn it because the overhead door for the loading dock has to by definition be taller and wider than these two doors on the end but what they're saying is the thing has to be offloaded by using a forklift so what I Envision is if you had a long metal rod for example a really heavy long metal rod you couldn't take it in end first unless people were strong enough to pick it up now it have to come in sideways but I don't understand how it could fit sideways through the two end doors it can't fit sideways through the overhead doors so I need one of these guys to explain exactly why it is because if it's an issue of the forklift truck taking something from a low thing bringing it in low a forklift truck can take it off low and go high and bring it to the loading dock so explain why you need this the forklift for because first of all for the weight distribution with forklift you have to pick it up from the middle you can't pick it up from the end I understand you pick it up from the middle how does it get into the two you drop it down on skates and roll it in TR okay see what he's saying you're taking it off through the middle of the thing you put it down on for lack of a better term I know you're saying that but you move furniture on a dolly can we call it a dolly you take the thing you put it down on the ground level on a dolly then you turn the dolly and bring it in and the truck will actually move away I would think so why can't you put the bigger me on a bigger truck How You Gonna lift we can't get you on the recording you have to lift it from the middle you're not going to be able to maneuver a forklift or something in a truck do that people it's too heavy for people it's a flat you can't you can't drive on a flat bed from the rear loading top a close truck right come from the hit into the truck has comes in FL I assume you're G to yeah guys gotta use microphon you have to imagine it's not on it's not on so the truck that's coming is an open bed to allow the forklift to have access to pick up the Long Bar from the center of the bar from the side of the truck if you try to pick up from the end you can't pick it up and then it's it's going to listen it's going to take it it's going to put it down on ground level put it on a turn the dolly roll it through the door in my opinion if that's all they're going to be doing yeah I don't think it requires a a d variant but they don't have a loading space for that truck it's right in the wild all right you hear what you I'm grabbing all of you this is what Jeff's saying if that's the case okay we all understand that then that means for as long as that truck is unloading that big heavy bar no one is going to be circulating around the building correct because you have no loading space for the truck to stand in you're talking about like I believe they' like to request of variance which we'll discuss next time and give the merits of it as to why John John is there no ground level door on that on your particular unit no on the two ends there's a ground level door okay without a loading spot but Wayne has come up with a good suggestion they're going to ask for a variance from having the loading spots there based on I assume the short time the truck's going to be there okay okay now it's 10 o'cl you want to have John go through his report or do you want to trust trust him to go through John's report and respond to everything I I think we've had about enough for the evening I I can make it I can make it real quick I think all Adam's got to do is uh look at our April 5th memorandum and on page three items uh under site development plan items 7 through 13 they're basically self-explanatory details that can be added to the plan if he has any questions I would suggest he just reaches out to Jay and uh Jay will walk him through it yeah actually I'm looking at those comments they are clear as a bell and they're in bold yeah whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa they're updated on okay that that's an exhibit that hasn't been submitted okay and what the traffic in expert is saying is he wants it on the site plan yeah just use the one on the table come on sir I'll update on the site plan I I did update on the exhibit as well just to see you can say that as much as he wants he wants it on the site plan you going to put it on the site plan remember he hasn't seen this just make that exhibit another sheet in the site plan set you got to revise the plans anyway good idea he says yeah we'll update it on the plan okay great okay so like we said before this matter this hearing is being continued to June 16th they're going to be second on the agenda the Chairman's going to give the first application Rican no more than an hour but be here at 7 just in case Rakin goes off and if you make all the revisions that we discussed and that are in Tony's memo in John Thomas's memo which we haven't discussed but it's pretty clear and in the in um the traffic memo which is Crystal Clear IM bold then hopefully the only thing we'll be discussing on June 16th will be the variances and the exceptions which we need which we want you to submit on 8 and a half by 11 so the board can have it in front of them as a summ as a separate sheet as a summary so when Wayne's going through his testimony people are taking notes okay Mr chair yes uh I think we're finished except John I would like for you to discuss with us off the Record uh or on the record um your conversation with Mr Cilla you know what I think we should go into a closed session that's what I'm suggesting to discuss that yeah so gentlemen thank you there's nothing else why thank you thank you Bo ask someone to say so move after I proposed motion the motion a CL session to get attorney advice from me on the issue of whether or not Township cre a supplemental Board of adjustment based on conversation that I've had with the township so move this is attorney Cent information so of the session not so move Mr Roger erens yes Mr Kevin Co close session yesin Cynthia schaer yes sto yeso yes Mr Brad Terry yes coming yes so we have to stay here so the Zoom team can be Mee Jackie if you don't want to hang around you don't have to appliation thank you all have a good night good night good night what about the other members theard M STI around okay just Jessica and John