e e e you want a vot how go um oh yeah y right there there you go what's on I have Wi-Fi sometimes you need to come off the Wi-Fi you think so phone charger yeah oh we're muted here we go what h so we [Music] okay e e e okay on oh you'll just have to I did I am yeah right call the meeting to order and do the roll call first so we have John P here bucko here okay first item on the agenda is discussed most recent the& presentation so that um so if I could so related to that one of the things that we're hoping to do is to be able to have a table at Tom meeting to share the presentation that's right sure and the moderator is okay with that we just need to check with the schools to make sure and organize that with custodial but from the moderator's point of view or outside the room okay so who's going what materials fresh my memories for what materials we going to have there the presentation from the COA so presentation from there no no that's the video but didn't they have a high copy of that I thought it was going to be to show the three uh different fulls size architectural drawings we could have the however many pages that are in the warrant book and we could talk to have people kind of man the table answer questions that was and what's like the time what what happen so probably get there at 7 o'clock starting on Thursday the 24 24th of April stay for a week or so comes late NFL draft um no I think probably start 7 to 7:30 maybe at the first two meetings beginning Thursday and then the following Monday which is what the 2 the 25th of 29th 29th thank you 25th and 29 far as getting those materials copies which so it's just going to no won't be to be multiple copies just have to set the one set set of designs each and you said full size full size and copy of what's already going to be in the packet but which probably yeaha particip I think it' be great yeah absolutely it' be great to have a few people manning the tables awesome dates sounds like a very reasonable thing yeah that could be awesome and how about from the retail side people yeah I could do it I I don't have access to a packet but we GNA have a separate I I think maybe what we could do is so we actually produced it right we finished it and sent it the pet so maybe Jenna we could ask you to make half a dozen copies of it yep that works for me um Chris is messaging that um it can't be heard so can't be heard yeah from this room can every can people hear us on Zoom if you can can you take yourself off mute and tell as you can hear us I can hear everyone okay I can hear you okay wonderful thank you maybe it's just something going on with Chris thanks so much have one more topic too sure also related to the bhna presentation was to get to the permanent building committee I've reached out I talked to the chair tonight and uh we're going to connect them with the presentation stuff that's already on the found website so they can look at it and talk about getting it onto the next meeting the next meeting but be great to have Joel present at the next meeting of one thing that struck me is that when they're talking about not having enough space at Pleasant Street things that would be omitted I was wondering how that was there any input from people to decide which things were because like they had the social area which we had identified as a priority as one of the things that would be eliminated as well as it's looked like the workout area so I think one of the goals at this point is that this is really site selection so it's kind of let's call it footprint of building right that's why I didn't make a big deal of it but I was just wondering so they was there a thought process went into that or he just was looking at removing X number of square feet is that more what it was and then the prioritization would happen so let's take the second part okay the second part is that later once the site is selected then the process talks about all the interior space and how to use it and where the priorities are and sizes things like that that's all part of the kind of getting to the to the drawings that they would do next so that's should be be less of a concern at the moment it's not really site issue you know the I guess the only issue you could have would be how much space there is in terms of so to me it is a site issue yeah but when you say social space then I think that moves it to the later discussion the earlier discussion is how much total space is going be allocated can you really split them apart like that though I think you have to because otherwise you're gonna end up trying to do that for three buildings and you're going to go and pick one and then it's all going to change again well it seems like no was only an issue for that one building I I thought that the complication of the Pleasant stre building was uh what exactly was were they sizing and pricing and all that stuff so that there's the extension off the off the Great Road which may or may not be possible and whether you have the kitchen um extension off off that side or do you need to reduce the size of that and then I wasn't sure when they did the costing they include that stuff or he said no somebody I did ask him and he said no and then I said why are we showing all this stuff I was surprised he said no to do yeah the bup was not not that's a a key part oh sure that and then he did put that at the end like how much it would be for the bump out right right and I and I have not gone back to it I confess that I didn't go back to that to sort out exactly which but that is you know if you don't have the bump out and you don't do the kitchen in a certain way then spaces elsewhere and I think he just said oh we're this this space this space this space don't fit and I I think he was doing square feet eliminating square feet rather than yes saying this room is not right I wish he hadn't just the square feet and not identify specific areas that's you know but that's where I was going and then I realized that there was more detailed yes there hasn't been any decision yet to eliminate social space has there no no no no no no no no no no we already need the building just that's fine just making sure miss a in my just so you know in my opinion the social space is probably the most important I agree I agree totally okay thanks so you're talking about when they did the Pleasant Street one they said this is what would be in it but what we these three things would be yeah okay but it wasn't a decision it was just saying if you did this no and I kind of like was talking myself through it that night and saying well that's that's for another decision but you put those up there I wish you hadn't yeah so I'm I'm looking at what I think is the cost breakout and then it goes through and it talks about the three sites um it says cost for without pickle ball cost without gym cost for equalized program area without gy then it has a list of alternate costs and one of them is 1,800 Square F feet additional space second is 4600 additional space then it's cost of gym track included Oakland Simons costat pickle ball cost for parking garage plus those are all separate line items below the esates yeah there was there was this there was that other piece which was if you don't have the gym right there's an additional space piece that translates into the building so side so that's actually and I think that's an important thing to highlight because it's an attempt to I think as you said that use the word equalized space so um I think I think Mark is right the the perspective is we're really looking at footprint and we're looking at overall space the purpose of showing the details of is really to make sure people believe quite frankly right that's really it that we believe that we can actually get everything in there and fit it but exactly how it gets structured and organized in there I think that's that is definitely a a phase three design piece um but I do think it's important that within those options that we are a bit more specific about which of these are we really recommending to move forward with because they do have different implications at that site for space see I thought the end result is iess myself before the the meeting on this is that even with all the the gym space being take it out of all three and that'll allow some space you know pleasantry some flexibility there that still the total number of square feet available was not the same it was the same on because the the buildings are the same at Oakland's Road and Simons but not at Pleasant Street that was my yeah and I think pleas Street might be a hair smaller too y yeah that could have been so to be clear there there is cost for build that without pickle ball Pleasant Street would then have 20,000 square feet the other two sides 26 through if you take the gym out so it's now cost for equalized program area without gym they're identical 18,1 if I remember correctly think he had the number incorrect SC for yes it's 236 not 266 right John you got a question oh didn't I didn't bring with me tonight I'm sorry but didn't one of them thought in the last round I saw had the kitchen actually fall below the minimum and so that would be an example of the site doesn't support what we that was pleasant I'm pretty sure that was Pleasant Street okay just FYI even in the new design kitchen was too small only in Pleasant Street FYI at the Board of Health 3H hour what do we need to do for health going forward meeting this afternoon we talked a lot about the commercial kitchen and being able to support large group dining tremendous interest in that so you'll be hearing more about it let's not go chiseling down that commercial kitchen now Jenna was there is this the time to talk about the issue of of the gym uh oh those cost wise mean so to equalize the design you you come out at all three but pricewise you fall almost the same price you could have the gym at two of the locations that would cost you without the gym am I okay yeah it's it's uh the equalized cost at Pleasant Street estimate here is 26.1 and the uh other two sites with the gym is 277 so it's still a difference of million six yeah and then the gym at simonw Oakland would have the walking Track and Pleasant Street wouldn't yes ma' and I haven't had a chance to look at the detailed report on the costing but I think he mentioned this did he factor in the revenue that we'd received from selling or renting no he couldn't because that's kind of like go to Zillow and get a number it would come off of it no but but that's an important point I think that that would be something right right the net cost would be less than for Pleasant Street because something will come yeah well the other thing too is if if it weren't at Pleasant Street without you know they wouldn't have the cost of a temporary right right and and the dation and and I think that so to your point um if it's at a different location then the fact of the matter is now Pleasant Street is quote unquote available for Town use for whatever might go forward which could be renting it out it could be using it for other things whatever the choice however that's a big difference versus not having it a bill right in other words suddenly there's a new building a we move somewhere else yeah there's a new building there's an existing building available right for different things right exactly if you stay at Pleasant Street that's not the case true I think that's the Highlight as opposed to how many dollars does it mean I'm not sure you can say dollars necessarily you can say usage in different ways and you have to go someplace else for a couple years yeah but you could put it in as a holding place the net number would be I believe significantly less if we were to move and have sell or rent Pleasant Street by how much who knows but you could just put a big asterisk yeah it will be less because or something because I it will I'm just suggesting that even if you didn't sell or or rent or whatever yeah you suddenly have another Municipal facility that could do lots of different things potentially whether it gets real rent or sales value or something else right it's a tremendous difference tremendous advantage that needs to be factored in right and it's not if you did it would be net in terms of just the pleasant Space Center less but I do believe that making that obvious agree agree I believe that the estimated cost for Pleasant Street Center however do include the notion of moving right I to use I saw that it's just that's part of part of the difference not a big part big fat as we don't know what it would be but potential offsetting of significant dollars something a big fed as it was good that he included the utilities and things you would need at at the other sites that was built into the that's all yes so we have the yeah and if I could just add I think that there'll be great value with the uh permanent building committee having a chance to review this and make recommendations comments prior to kind of a decision on hey this is the place but John if we could just I think it's important to talk more about the the issue of the gy in lots of different ways one of them the cost um the second is you what what what is the opport Unity that that that opens up first for senior activities and also for other activities that could go beyond that um that's a big opportunity we also talked I think at the last discussion about coordinating more with different groups in town R schools um swek made their recommendations from their meeting was Monday night or Tuesday night why was it Monday night or Tuesday night Monday night in the paper today in the paper today so they they've come up with four thoughts that they're going to share with the select board I think on Tuesday night next week one of them um is a a Cal Center practive living that was one of the four well they had every possibility so other words they didn't really PIR down in fact I think there might have been six because the six was everything do you know that a private partnership maybe for a you know facility there was open uh space for different activities I think the pickle ball was another you know one that they had I forget what they but yeah so they pretty much most of the things that people had highlighted in this survey y they you know they haven't taken it to this to the stage yet I don't if they will of saying you know it should be this as opposed to that right I mean this is I don't remember they're exact charted but I thought they're charted was come back to the selectboard with some thoughts don't know that it was one thought some thought right because it's a 30 page report put a lot into it either there any okay uh anything else on that on the presentation well yep I don't know I hesitate to to mention this but one of the things I would would have liked from BSA is you know they talk about that Butters the properties of both sides um but one of my my big concerns with the with the gym or even the building extension out is the the ab butter down the hill on Parker is it Parker Street down around the side and uh so that you end up with the low lowest level being the parking garage and a parking garage above it and then a gim above that and you end up with with a very tall building next to that house that's there and um so talking about Silo I don't know what that property costs but if if that buying that property would solve some of the parking problems there reduce the need for this two Lev parking garage that would have been I thought about that in North Road too that one person is kind of like surrounded I'm not so concerned about oh okay no because they're far enough away they're not having a big tall B oh yes yes no but it was yeah but that's one of the the concerns and you're going to have your abutters meeting in weeks you find out how much would cost to buy you they love to hear that no I don't I don't know if want I heard from the one resident on Simon's way and um he seemed very receptive to something going down there seem opposed in the moment um so that was a positive very positive conversation um and I did did just receive an email um from someone I think about the Oakland Road location so people are calling and I think people are also reaching out to the select board with their comments I've been hearing too um that's good so we're getting a lot of positive and I'm sure negative I haven't heard anything negative yet but well I think most of it so far has been asking for information too so they may have a flavor when or another but I think a lot of it too is asking for more information sure what's going on how you for example they both has questions about blasting or areas exactly that be used some of that so Michael one one of the things I would say is that I agree they didn't really go into great detail um I know that for example they talked about you know when you start tearing down the trees on that on that side in particular you're going to lose some of the natural boundaries between that site and various Butters um I do I I do definitely think it's more of a detailed site plan issue um my experience on cpdc is like they're going to come up with issues about lighting in terms of how that is like because you have a parking lot and then you know what sort of U uh vegetation and vet natural buffers that can be retained so I mean that is that in and of itself is something that that has to be addressed in in whatever site um I mean I do think the Pleasant Street site year I mean you don't need a you don't need an architectural drawing to see kind of what that's going to look like I mean it is there's not much you can do about it from a I mean you can make it look pretty but it's um but is going to be a an X an X foot high wall on the side right next to the to the one side of the butter there and you know I mean I think there there's very little that you're going to be able to do if that perhaps was the thing if that was the option that that that the people the people wanted um it's a really tough it's a tough sell in my opinion from that standpoint um but um but I do think the details of those issues are are much more sight specific um u i i but I do think it's important to recognize that that is a important criteria to to recognize that there are AB butters on especially on those two sites um that have to be addressed and and um I've heard some feedback as well both both both positive and I do think there's a lot of questions I I do think that's that is true um so I don't think we're going to get away from from trying to address that when it comes to to the design of any of these sites quite frankly what was some of the feedback said positive most of it would be negative the buts but what did you hear well I mean so some of the same things we've talked about you know having something downtown on the Pleasant Street side I think is still one of the biggest positives I I don't you know I don't I don't think anybody has said anything different um I haven't actually heard anything from a you know negative side on the detail the butter side um but my personal opinion is that that's a that's a huge building to put up against somebody else's property I I certainly wouldn't want that there myself but that's just you know my opinion um as far as um Oakland Road um I think the the pieces that I've heard back are you know there is a there is a a lot of things going on in that one area area so it is kind of good to have kind of like almost a campus yeah kind of like a campus approach there um but I've certainly heard you know some negatives about the neighborhood and then you know the water tower on the other side and all the other issues that have gone on so I I you know I think there's and I think there's a lot of um lot of questions about that so whether or not any of those will will make sense I I can't answer that but that's why we're going to have to consider it at least as part of our decision criteria or from a recommendation standpoint Excuse me yes so I wanted to if I could come back to the gym for a moment so I think that the the opportunity for having the gym is tremendous that it will serve the senior community very very well um it will Al also have other opportunities for use which serves the the the broader Community for those things as well walking Track I think is that's all year round could be fantastic I just think that that that's such a huge benefit to doing to to having that as part of what we're doing here and it's a bit of a gap if we don't for the senior community and and more broadly so I I am very much in favor of of having the gym there I spoke with someone tonight about intergenerational opportunities and again the the big benefit of being able to do that would be that if the seniors are there and then bring in other Generations other audiences at the same time that allows that to Really Happen trying to think about it the other way here's a gym let's let's bring in a bunch of seniors for a while makes a big difference yeah it is is really different and less attractive and less likely to succeed so I I love the intergenerational aspects of it I love the facility aspects of it I think it's it's great I I love the idea okay question to um I just things I heard also though where there were a lot of questions about the flooring I'm not opposed to a gym G but I'm not ready to sacrifice what the singers need if if that's what it means um there were questions about the flooring of the gym that it sounded like different flooring is needed for the kinds of exercises that seniors need and that was so like well that could be in the whatever we're calling the room and the plant um I also heard discussion about can the gym be effectively subdivided for programs and the answer I heard I could have Miss heard was that it yes but it's not going to be soundproof like you'd really like so it's it's I'm all for a gym but not at the expense of extra program room for seniors and the flooring we need for senior level exercising dancing whatever else they may want to do so I just the balancing I'm not sure what you you're saying there was that in favor of the Jim but one that was focused on the needs of seniors is that what you're saying or were you saying you have questions about it's in favor of a I like the walking Track I hear lots of people saying that's great but and is me personally there no time to take a vote from seea but what what I heard at the meeting was concern that we might not end up some with some of the priority things we've been asking for which is exercise space that has the proper flooring for senior exercising I'm not if having the gym means giving that up then I don't think the gym prioritizes sen conf why would you think that that would mean giving that up I just in terms of square footage the room for the exercise is much smaller than the gym so if if we're thinking oh we could go do that in the gym the answer is maybe not so the there is a fitness room that had that would have a floor that is spring gloated everything else but it's a lot smaller than the space about in the gym do that the gym you won't be able to have it right without the gym you won't have the space space so there's a fitness room set up to do some of the things that's kind of designed to hold X people right without the gym it holds X holds X but you'd have the benefit of the gym that could have much bigger activities also right in other words you're not going there's there was no nothing in the plans that said oh without the gym then we add space right to the basic PL that's not one of the very early ones actually had 10 rooms in it right but that's not what yeah we're getting to the inside again all right so the space isn't going to change the space with the gym the difference in Space by adding the gym is the space of the gym it's a gym yeah so in other words if you take it out you take the gym out you drop by however many square feet the gym was put it in you add as many square feet as it were in it's not really take your word for I'm remembering a different picture but I could be remembering wrong I gr you the only caveat to that though is the Pleasant Street option one option two issue yes so if you if you decide that you want option one of Pleasant Street with the gym you you by default will limit the space of the so that that's you do option two and you take the gym out you give yourself an opportunity to regain some of that and actually if you look at that option two I think there's a thousand foot Fitness room in place of the gym effectively right that's what I remember so me my one comment on that is a lot of seniors would really benefit from during the day and you know one experience the Amera call center over Wakefield fed from 8:00 in the morning till 2 in the afternoon um most were by seniors in there every day playing pickle ball pickle ball do well that's a senior I'm not I'm not put I brought it up at the Board of Health you'd be proud of me no one two and a half hours without a word about pickle ball I actually threw it in so true and I I completely agree with you that we have to think about the various spaces in in it but a gym has you know lots of uses yeah you can play Pickleball there basketball you can have dances you can do all sorts of stuff in there Zoomba and everything else there might be other places other floor treatments and other things that are better for Zumba or for you know kickboxing or all the other things that you can do WR yeah I don't know about that I'm just saying there's a tradeoff it's it's not just G and no negative that's a tradeoff and only a pardon me only a plus yes only and you're you're paying for that at a higher cost except we're gonna sell building so it's gonna come don't separate decision sell anything else again it's got two places to work with right now right looking to buy buildings one of the things I would say about the you know the benefit of of moving out of pleasantry that that reduces the cost of Oakland root or Simons it it doesn't reduce the cost of pleasant stream it adds to the price of pleasant stream because you you now have you you at Oakland or assignment you have this new asset that you the town has if you stay at Pleasant Street you don't have any new assets I understand I'm not advocating I just want to understand the map and the tradeoffs so I'm sorry John I gotta I'm just a little confused here so I mean I to to Marilyn's point it's nice that we all make sure we understand I think that's part of the purpose but I yes I think the goal is like so where do we go from here what are the next steps that we're so I just want to make sure no because that's why I uh you know we get to the second item but I didn't know whether to I was going to raise it now other words do we even want to come out with Jim or no Jim are we going to come out at the end of the day with a recommendation as recount and I'm not saying one way or the other whether we should but I that's what I'm looking for do we think that that's something that recal should weigh in od so personal opinion no that's um and I've said this all on the collective group needs to Stand United in front of the select board and make a recommendation okay that recommendation had better dot all the eyes and cross all the tees and say we want this with this gym with this floor whatever whatever the things are that we find critical that we want that's what I believe we need to put in front of the select board now with the rationale of you know tradeoffs and all the things that we've looked at as background but we need we need a common recommendation um I think the exercise that we're going to go through to do rankings and stuff may not get us all the way there but I think it's going to get us to a point where a couple things are going to Bubble Up and then we're going to from there start to tear down the pieces that you know make sense or don't make sense so that was my second question how do get there no no is that all right we're gonna fill it out but the recommend I would think that the sum of the pots is greater than you know the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and so that I don't want the individual reports than just being tallied up and saying this is recal recommendation I want us to be able to step back and say look at that you know and discuss why we said you know we waited this way I I think again I'm forecasting a little bit here but I think we all need to do this anyhow regardless oh yes oh no no I'm not say not do it I I've already done it for myself so I have some idea where I I I've deliberately not done it okay um but um I I I mean I've kind of done it in some respects of but I deliberately have not physically done it um but um I think then we need to look at that information and have that have that conversation with this information in front of us for folks to kind of advocate at that point Advocate explain rationalize justify to Bubble Up the Pieces that we think make sense we're then going to have to reconcile that with the other stakeholders in the process COA being one of them um and others to kind of get to that recommendation and I think that's what I know Nancy had had really pushed for we need to make this process AB Butters everybody we need to kind of make that a a process there where everybody has a voice and that recommendation reflects as best as we can the priorities of the community um and the other pieces that we've gone through up to now taking it one step further that and we haven't you know we haven't settled you know discussion but the next step to me would be then do we come up with a one recommendation between recal Co would that be a desirable goal are we stand alone I would think that would make it very we don't really want to be I'm not so sure if that would work so I think I think it it would no don't expect I mean I've already told I've already told COA that um since some near representative to this group that I will then ultimately have to vote on something we'll vote what the Council of Agy wants and I know how strongly strongly the Council on Agy wants a senior center I'll say it again a senior center and I'm not so sure that I may be in disagreement with them but we put forth their uh their feelings their recommendation and I'm not so sure Council and agent would would would have a budge to wanting a a combined Center at the expense of a gy at walking Track well I mean there's still so many factors you know I'm not sure there is there are what exactly does that means to by a COA because right now it would deliberately change the name to the Pleasant Street Center we don't have a technically we don't have a senior center okay and most communities are moving in in that direction so what does it mean does that mean they don't want any of their activities Len so marn Shing head no stated seemed to be even the current Pleasant stre Cent views today exactly right so what so what what I'm saying is I think the majority there want a senior center and I mean if we if we C with Pleasant Street that would be a senior CER it would not be a community CER why would you say that this again yeah I don't understand that I'm really trying to understand where it came from it almost seem to me like what with um that was brought out at the last meeting that that Pleasant Street would be a senior center so can I interject here for a minute so we've had we've had a couple of conversations around this and I want to try to clear the air and get everybody body here at least on on the same page so this group um from and I I you know I'll speak for myself I think this group has been chartered to come up with a the reading Center for active living and I think just to jump to the heart of the matter the issue from COA and you can correct me if I'm wrong is a bit about access and control and that we want to make sure we meet the senior needs absolutely it's been that is our that that was the first recommendation out of the results of our things nobody AR arguing that at all having said that we have a we have a challenge we I mean I've advocated for this process for a long time we want this to happen and my personal opinion this group's opinion is to do that we want this to be a bit more Community oriented and focused and give it a little bit broader scope and so by doing that we've called it the reading Center for active living yes it's got a fair amount of focus on 60 plus needs which is what we've talked about but at the same time we do want to Advocate and use the word advertise that this isn't just a senior center that it does actually extend beyond that to say a suede a lay assure COA the seniors in this community the question is who's going to manage access and control we talked talked about what pieces are dedicated what pieces are not dedicated so first and foremost that's a town issue we can't decide that right that's not our role to make it that decision but from the perspective of our recommendations the perspective is to give the seniors that level of comfort that should be Elder Services it should be a building that Elder Services is responsible for and manages and and and puts forth if you do that then I think the answer is it makes the it makes makes it a little bit more palatable because we still we still want what we want we want a building that is able to do more than that um we did actually hear the question well if it's just Pleasant Street then it's only a senior center no that's not the way we've we've reviewed it and if we come up with a center that's the same size as the other ones then then it doesn't really hold water yes it's on a much more constrained site and there are other issues absolutely but it doesn't limit its applicability as a senior center at least in my mind so I that's kind of where our where our heads have been at or at least my head's been at we've had I've had a couple conversations around this and I think that's how we have to look at this is that this is in fact a redin center for active living it is more than a senior center but it does have to fa have the priorities of focus and how do we how do we assure folks of that case we can make a recommendation we can't already have we're on record right we can't we can't force still it's up to the town to force right exactly and that's I guess that's the point that that that's as far as we can take it right um I certainly would hope COA understands that I think we've tried to have that communication with COA about that um and if we need to reset that and have another when we have our next fall we will have another joint COA recal Comm we can go through this again with them um but but I really think if if we don't if we don't again if we don't do that if we don't sit here and say the same things it's not I don't care it will not it won't even be a past town meeting foret about the voters so I'm I'm very confident that we have to be aligned 100% on what chis do you say yeah I I do think um just two things I do think re H and CA can come together um especially after more recently as we were getting more information um you know I I think you know I think about a month ago you know was little hit and miss but we also didn't have the details that we have right now so I do think COA is you know open a little bit more open to a community type Center but making sure we have a good good space for older adults seniors um but I I I think we can both come together and I can see COA coming together to agree on um on on being you know a senior center but with you know with good community space too so I'm just confused why we're even talking about this we've been talking about this so long that this is what it is and now to be hit with a curveball saying that COA is not going to do it unless it's a complete senior cely I think I think Co will COA may not come around but I I I still could see a b cont sure it's got be a lot of so couple things can I make a very strong suggestion this is a center for active living we need to take the other two words out of our vocabulary because we confuse each other with them right they mean something when the words Community Center come together the control issue explodes when we say Senior Center we get the kind of the gnarly kind of H not sure that's what I want and the Pleasant Street Center name is is an example yeah of that those are words we're not going to use so let's stop using them it's a center for active living that's what it's got to be and to get the town to consider supporting 2628 million town meeting the voters y we have to be together and it has to serve the needs which are first and foremost for the 60 plus community and other things that I think are possible as a result of that yes the piece for me that gets me Tangled and we've talked about this and control is one way of handling it um is that an issue now is that the building is becoming too small for the senior population and some of it's just language on the M the diagrams I think that three rooms are dedicated because we currently and if you take any pleasantries You Can Count this Mark there are as many as five simultaneous things going on in different rooms there and if we've only got three dedicated rooms it it just raises a flag saying are we going to have even as much as we do now and there are ways of handling it through control but I think that wording and that notion of dedicated is causing some of this problem because that's another word that has to disappear yes yes and as we said we currently do share those rooms they're not they're they the senior centers but we do share them with there could be times when there are eight activities eight programs going on for seniors if we have the appropriate space to to to do that but it gets to the priority then senor I think we're I think we're actually aligned on that we see a vision of it can work but it's not all been communicated effectively we the council and aging came up with a list which I agree mostly about the building of things that are important about the building which can be worked out at the next stage it's just getting that Comfort level that yes if we want six things to run at once and there physically is space in a building it's that we get first right of refusal to the nothing else not hit it I mean it's a control issue I think that could be worked out I agree age I think we're but I'm just nobody said anything differently as far as the priority but I'm just me I'm not the whole Council I'm I much rather hear that ear yeah you know rather than all of a sudden we oh where did this come from right you know if if we're before some you know the select Board of town meeting we're dead John said we have to you know say Let's Get You there'll be some give and take you know and I think it's hard to compare the Pleasant Street center with dedicated rooms right now too and Chris you could speak to this because you have two rooms downstairs that you could well they could qualify certainly as dedicated rooms but you can only use them for the computer really and shine and the pool room is the pool room like it's got a pool table in there and then you have the multi-purpose room and then upstairs you have two rooms rooms three rooms but one out of the three right now is half an half an office or now three three quarters or half half is an office for Janet and Anna so really there not even like five dedicated rooms right now even at the current Center so I think it's smart to not say oh we have five rooms now and we need 20 then it it is looking at the cumulative amount of space that's available right now and how many uses it actually serves because in a new space it's going to be even probably like triple or quadruple what you have now right for most of the day I would say you're going to have exactly that you're GNA have all of space yeah exactly yeah I mean and not excluding evenings no and and a gym is is a prime example of this because this would be dedicated to in a senior use times I mean not sure we would check IDs but 60 plus or I don't know but does that get into the exclusive use territory it's not it's in these diagrams in any of the diagrams it's not it's a going to be an active living living resource they would be badging type stuff so yeah so you know who's in the also there going to be the issue of people with disabilities of different ages that's that's the very common thing yeah absolutely personally I find it in my mind easier to think about it not as Bas but as I I'm looking for Assurance that a greater level of programming will be supported at the new site I don't care who owns the space I think that get governance yeah it does some kind of body that's gonna actually you know and let's say it's a five person body and three of seniors have you know what whatever you know but some kind of governance whatever who whatever is the entity that you know is making decisions on utilization of spaces and time like that God God help them you know it's that kind of a you know and we're making that work now you know with wck and EHS um you know and I think you know we make it work and we're in two completely different buildings you know being in the same building I think it'll just improve that um and also you know not to one other thing that I'm noticing though is with the Pleasant Street scario that I haven't heard anyone mention is I don't see enough offices for EHS Recreation and all the community services in this um in these two diagrams unless I'm missing something um yeah so maybe that might be more input from us as far as you know that's one of the desired thing but we should bring make sure we bring that up is I only see on the Pleasant Street Center designs enough office space for EHS um in these two designs um so I don't there's no more there's not office space for recreation or Community Services or um Oh you mean me vet yeah you and the basement sooner or later I mean if you look at the the proposed proposed rooms which again they're not final but you've got in Oakland Road and Simmons way you've got seven program rooms a senior lounge and a multi- purpose room that can be split plus a conference room and all the offices and that's aside from the gym if you look at Pleasant Street equal things again seven rooms seven program rooms plus a conference room plus a senior lounge and a multi room that can be split so I I do think it's go I like your word governance of of the program there is and what your in priorities I I just this one that's that's that's what we've been driving towards is to get those sorts of pieces in place so that so that it can in fact support all of these things I think what we need is a dialogue with the Council on Aging and Bre because you do have a mission and we have a priority and it needs to and you might a great job advocating for it so you know Nancy and but but a few of us do that but it was would still need to go to a council vote and to John's point maybe that isn't where the whole council is and they're not involved in these discussions and I I think my personal thing is that I think we should be working much more closely together and not having you have a meeting we have a meeting sub meeting to explain how our meeting didn't match their then we have a meeting to figure it's we need more dialogue together like Zoom every day Al and I also think um Pleasant Street center with these designs sorry I'm going back to the designs because I know you guys are talking about the different sites but with Pleasant Street you know we still have the issue like the multi-purpose space I mean we're still going to have to take probably take tables out and put them back which is one of our issues right now with Transitions and also our grow motor room we're not I mean we need a if we don't have a gym and even with a gym we need a space probably closer to, 1500 square ft to handle yoga Zumba best exercise and everything else um you know right now we have 1150 square fet and it's not big enough so you know we're we're already running into same problems we are facing with Pleasant Street even with the new designs um and we need to make sure you know um if we were looking at Oakland Road or simons's away that you know we don't have to face these same issues thank you I'll stop talking now yeah so we just got a comment um in the chat saying not really sure how the meetings were are we just supposed to watch and observe or can we ask questions the answer is you can raise your hand yes you can ask question so I just told that person that if they would like to speak they can um so if if you want to speak that's fine you can raise your hand or you could write it in the chat and I can ask for you uh since you're already talking about me I can't find the raise hand button but um so I do apologize because it was a few topics ago but I wasn't sure when I was allowed to talk when we were talking about the cost does that include the site work yes and can you just state your name please Anastasia D Silva um I live by the Oakland Road thank you uh location um I was wondering if the costs included like the site work because I can tell you from looking out my back window that there's a lot of that at Oakland Road yes the each of the the quotes for the different locations included site work any kind of uh infrastructure as far as you know water access electric all all utilities and recognizing topographical challeng topographical Wetland protection I'd encourage you to I encourage you to go to the uh March 207 on RV it's April it's April 27th no no no but the the recording for um the presentation he he addressed a lot of those questions that you had okay because I I had heard that they did not include the site work that was definitely asked it's definitely asked many times okay um no it was my second question I may have forgotten it I'll write in the chat when I think of it apolog actually went aot detail about it as well too yeah because there's there's there's just given all the drama we had with the water tower and how much I can tell you is back there um you know almost any site work is probably going to be worse than whatever they told you unless they've gone there and actually you know seen what I mean there's literally two Ravines straight up back there that that need to be you know accommodated for um uh yeah so I think there is an added contingency too and all the 20 uh 10% and then 10% other words they buil yes this extra 20% John could I just to so um not to minimize that at all very important issue um I think it's almost between 10 and 15 years ago this site was evaluated um in pretty good detail by an engineering firm when it was being considered for the pre early intervention early early not intervention early early oh Early Education Center yes and and they that included um evaluations borings um quite a few things the engineering firm that actually did that work back then turns out to be the engineering firm that BH plusa is using for their work already so they have the benefit of some of that well they have the benefit of all of that information um which gives them a little bit more insight into what's going on and when they were looking at the the where to site different things on that site um that's one of the things that they looked at also so so again not to minimize that at all no no and that's and I'm trying to you know weigh that and that's fair but there was also a lot of work and research done for the water tower and we all know how that ended up so you can understand our uh hesitancy at taking that at its face value not that I'm sure they didn't do their job or anything but you know that that's what I'm trying so thank you very much you have any other questions you know as the meeting goes on you can just you got a couple than you I appreciate it you got three other people okayy Carolyn and mik Lacy no one has their answer is though right they do they all have uh uh can you tell me oh do you don't know which one was first um this should be in the order they raised their should be I can't to me so Mark Delaney would be first Mark Delaney so sorry about that folks oh thank you good evening and I appreciate all appreciate all the time you folks put into these things my my question I think is simple I'm trying to access the slid show that was part of the presentation instead of watching the whole meeting again I'd just like to be able to access the slides that the presenter presented uh is there a way I can get at those Rec it is on the recal site and on the left hand side of the recal site um there's a link that says feasibility study and the presentation will be right on there um I could actually probably I'm just G to text it to I was just going to do that the copy and paste the link thank you um we could put it in the chat for you awesome that's it for me thank you very much thank you and who was next oh you finish sorry that Carolyn is next Carol Carolyn Carolyn Carolyn hi can you hear me yes okay um actually I'm a a resident on Auburn Street I'm two doors down from the water tower um so I know it doesn't directly maybe affect me possibly this go around it affects a lot of my neighbors um down the street um I just kind of want to re reiterate too that um the communication during that project was not ideal um we had blasting that was not anticipated um obviously as you know potential blasting that was anticipated um I know that didn't end up happening but we listened to jackhammering all summer um I put uh refurnished my attic I have a crack in my attic from that um so we we had numerous issues with the water tower over the last couple years and my concern is that I may be affected if you know Orland road is obviously used um and I know how the project went over and changed the lack of communication on that um it just seems to me not the ideal site and I'm afraid it's going to be a redo of that whole experience um to to be completely honest and I'm not sure if this is the right committee to speak to about that um but you know I back up the concerns of my neighbors who are closer um to that site for for those various reasons so um I will look at the slide thing you know as well but um it was a pretty bad experience overall um on my end so car can you just ask your full name please yep it's Carolyn o'keef thank you thank you for your input I just put up the um that link in the chat so if anybody's looking for it the direct link to the feasibility study is there thank you who's the uh so Mike Lacy is next Mike Lacy hey how you doing everybody thank thank you very much for your time I appreciate all your efforts uh I have a question in regards to the traffic study uh has there been a traffic study conducted um also I'd like to point out that there are no sidewalks on Park View and Longfellow has that been noted and with the proposed location with that being kind of a blind spot coming up over Oakland from Longfellow has there been any consideration to how you going to manage traffic both during the day uh high high volume times you know during school hours beginning school after school during school events it was raised at that meeting but I'm not aware that they've done any kind of detailed traffics Tye sh so I think they said they there a consultant has looked at the site yes um but I think mostly from the perspective of Oakland Road um to be fair I think that's that's the way they looked at it that's my recollection of it so I don't know that they've looked up on on the park two side at all um the other thing that came up is that there is a smart streets grant that the town obtained that relates to that whole Oakland Road area is all included um and I actually ask the town manager to get some more details on that from the town engineer to see what that is that we have not yet done we actually have some money to to do some work um there and then your point Mike has noted in terms of um we need to better understand everything around down there definitely hasn't been done in depth at this point and I just like to conclude just to piggyback off of Stacy um not to keep bringing this up but I also went back through the slide and tried to look for all the the portion of the bid for the site work the total site work you know the grading excavation tying in utilities boom all of that and at a higher time locating it maybe I can reach out to Ryan or the consultant maybe uh directly to get that information because as we all know I live on Beacon Street and I'm Beacon Street and I had a the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with the cell tower that is still not complete um caused you know it's it caused a lot of in major inconveniences and I don't understand more so how we not you know have we don't have this project under the microscope and lastly I mean it's you know another disruption another major disruption to our our part of town when I feel that there were better options that's all thank you very much for your time thank you thank you for the input sorry I was working on something else for a second that's it for hands at the moment okay anything else maybe the Pres presentation didn't include some of the topographic stuff maybe and it was but he presented it at the meeting and he talked about it in response to questions but the question arose because it wasn't there wasn't specified you know it didn't break it down that way you know so much for utilities so you know that it wasn't that kind of a detailed cost estimate yeah there is more more of a detailed cost estimate that we can share with um the abuts in our abutter meeting maybe that would be helpful oh well yeah of course and COA has it we just got yeah so um I I thought that this group had had that too um previously so that's not a problem we could give something out in more detail we just didn't want to give it in that initial presentation because we thought it would just add a lot of confusion because there is a lot of technical analysis in that cost estimate so but as John Sasso had said earlier this has to go through you know other Town committee but you know the perent building committee is going to be one but also a cpdc right but the the um I think the the points that that are being raised at the moment which the questions that are asked about you know traffic and things like that where we don't have as Mark says a detailed traffic study um the the estimates that the that the architects and the consultant have put together um as Mark said in in these areas have been based on uh work that has been done previously as well as their own surveys um and they've had their own engineering estimates done and you know we we we you know we have to rely on what they've done and they've also agreed and I think you know anybody that that owns a home knows that anytime you try to do something and you have an estimate um you know you're going to run into to contingencies and so we did ask them to put contingencies into the into the work which they have um but I think in terms of the actual ultimate impacts um the details of that won't be resolved won't be really flushed out until we get down into detail design um and those will have to go through um the review from again whether it's traffic or parking or lighting or I mean all those pieces have to be addressed um but for now the question still has to be where where do where where do we end up because we still have to come up with a site we can't flush this out for all three that's just not it's not feasible for us to do that so we have to get as as much information as we can um and and try to solicit feedback as well from the abuts because they're as they said they're the ones that will live through the construction of this as well as the uh the results in the end so we need to make sure that that concerns are addressed and whether or not this is the right site is is still to be determined I I remember when we o the road was first raised I had pointed out I can remember when the Early Education Center was proposed and I was on town meeting that we heard from some Butters then that there was so much there on H you know three schools including the hul high school campus is not enough and you know they just went through the the water tower thing as well I guess that's so so yes that is a definitely consideration the whole thing which just not gonna you know say uh you know downplay that at all that's definitely a consideration and there's sensitivity at each of the sites right but it all comes down to we only have three sites yes that's so that's the tricky part too when is meeting um it'll be April 17th I'm not we're not inviting any boards or committees to the meeting certainly you know there was a large for all three site Butters yep them all we mailed them all a letter and again there's been some people who came make the meeting and I said that we'd be open to meet meeting with them on a separate day and time um The Architects also open y y it'll be here in the select Board Room okay uh the while we're still on the evaluations criteria for them I had pointed out before the meeting there was an error in the latest one on number six wetlands and flood planes if you notice they it's the same for all three categories I'm not impacted I'm not impacted I'm not impact sah yeah instead of being moderately and you know uh and major know that's where it should back moderate and major so sorry not impacted would be a high score yes slightly impacted would be the medium score highly impacted yeah they used yes yeah in fact I looked at it multiple times and then I looked at the old thing I said yeah I'm not catch I didn't um Mike did you have another question or maybe his hands just okay you can actually you can drop all the hands you actually can do that do have the control and I had a question about how you fix the MH what are we talking about with f control I know I think that was more in my mind uh when it came up to one of the sites that was near Wetlands that there may be more of an issue far as yes could be coyotes no I was just curious what what we meant by was assuming because down no well that could be twoo but yeah know what we were talking about [Laughter] or are there any a question on number eight I don't know what we're really talking about yeah I I that's another one that I had to read over multiple times to try to figure out what exactly a close garage repairs I may we talk about I still can't share that Tri giv me all sorts of triangles well we don't need it well because only one one of the yeah so it's kind of like and insurance maintenance and L that was yeah I mean we don't even have enough information I didn't think to really I put something but I didn't put much distinguishing because I couldn't distinguish it was one of those kind yes that's a question I had about this whole process I know we're just alling around and understanding right now and trying it out but is it assumed I have to assume answer is no but we won't have detailed studies on a lot of these things to really know whether it's a six or a four or a two we're just taking our gut reactions on these things well I would say yes to some extent but that makes sense to we hired eh plusa for their expertise well then why don't we just have them tell us we think this one's a four that one's a three so what they did tell us at the last meeting was they went through which sites they thought had more complications in terms of like weapons like you're close to or in things like that and we had a big discussion about how much do we want to become all civil engineers do we want to go to that level or what would be the appropriate level to learn um this is is far from perfect some of by The Waiting system right and it was so you you have a basis for for all of these things and how important uh I think those things are to the site selection might be different than than how you would do for how John would do but it's basically gut plus having heard an opinion without much detail from b& okay well I would on that one but I don't think yeah I I would I would just say it's a little bit I mean I hope I hope I hope for all intents and purposes it's more than gut for the people of us watching and listening to this I mean you know quantity part I mean there may be some in here that are more than others like parking quantity okay we know exactly how many spaces are going to be on each side it's not all it's not all of them all so I I I I I don't disagree that there are some that we might have to do a little bit more inferencing to than the others but but I think we we we've got information on we I we could probably argue that there's information that's been presented on all of these at some level some more than others and for the gut level that's what the 20 points is okay that's a that's the that's the post yeah after that's the subjective right and the other question if I can keep talking with my raised hand are we evaluating this based on the assumption that something like the three the plans that were most recently presented are the only ones that we're thinking of yes okay so we've eliminated plan two from way back on Pleasant Street when there was option one and option two is that correct yeah I I and that was back when we were being told by Rachel that that would be just a senior center and I understand the evolution but I'm just I want to make sure when people do this that they know what it is they're evaluating that's all I I I I I do think that's a really good question because I actually do think there are that we should consider both of those sites I almost think we should do a separate either a separate ranking or some way of differentiating between because they they are I mean unless we as a group decide nope we're only doing option one or only doing option two they've both been presented and they both have different implications for what that Center is going to look like so I I almost think that if that is in fact the case that we might want to do it for both whether because because again like I said they they do at least have some implications on some of the um obviously costs um and um how much of the site can be used for different pieces based on the um the space requirements um so I I know it's up that to the group but to keep it equal I thought we're rating them all without a gym that's that was in my mind that uh that's why I asked the question earlier the opposite so the so the issue oppos well because I didn't think it was I think that we are evaluating the equal cost what turned out to be the equal cost Alternatives mean the equal space uh no equal cost oh that's right that's yes yes I guess 20,000 looked Simon's with a equally I saw the the between the garage and that gym on the Pleasant Street site I said that makes to me it was like Pleasant Street has no chance yeah I mean if you do that yeah because it's too big for the no but that is isn't that the cost with this is the cost with the you and so as I was viewing it when we're evaluating things like is there space for outdoor activities it's in this assumption these locations and this thing yes that so I I you know gave different scores accordingly I I just want to be sure when the council and agent does this which will now be next Monday we know the options are only this this and this and yeah we can move the rooms around inside but so here's the comparative factors it says Pleasant Street of 20,000 Oakland Road and assignment way at 263 that's what was laid out I agree with John we should be considering that one for because Council and agent didn't sign up for saying we necessarily want a center for active living and we haven't opposed it we we just were approach saying we know you need a senior center and we want to see if we can make it work in this thing and that's where we still are and we need to go back just a little bit so when when recal was formed it quite specifically was taking care of the needs of the 60 plus Community as a center for active living we then did a survey as well a bunch of you know research going to different centers one of the things that came back which was our recommendation that we brought forward to town meeting was that there was interest in it servicing most importantly the 60 plus Community but to have opportunities for other people as well and no one's Lally that's what we said no one's disputing that I just but you keep but you you seem to be doing it just twice now we had the l ly discussion and then it was like we didn't have the discussion Marilyn you're kind of like well no that's not what we signed up for we want to sen you said I'm not saying that we want I'm just saying we want we need a bigger more inclusive senior space let's take Center out of this for 60 plus for age 60 plus right and I don't think anyone has budged on that we've got 10 years of studies that show we need that and you approach this saying Town realizes this has been outstanding for a long time and it still is so I I don't know what the words are the and I don't care what it's called personally I I just want to know which diagrams if any are off the table and going back to those original two plans of Pleasant Street Center I think there are different opportunities depending which one you did and when they do this form I just want to make sure the council knows what are the options we're being asked to evaluate and what has gone off the table because those were on the table and I'm not saying I even like them best I just want to understand so that no one's thinking they're voting on this and they're actually voting and your question about is the gym in or out that's that's a perfect example as well of we just need to be really clear about exactly what models are we evaluating when we do this because otherwise we've got to get a hodge pod so the way I viewed it was we base it on one version of Pleasant Street which is the 20,000 foot version and you do have the option of adding space at a cost and we have the cost for doing it precis or not precisely but an estimate so to add the bump out is a million5 to add the 40 4600 square feet additional not ay is $3.7 million additional okay so that slide is what we should use as our mental image of what we're evaluating so actually this slide is what you should be using for your mental image the top the top row okay that's the slide you should use and to assess well can't we do X can't we do y right the answer you can I wish I could project these I'm really sorry this is the comparative question this is slide 62 yeah slide 62 is what it is called comparative cost showed costs of between 279 for Pleasant Street 278 for Oakland Road 27 nine for Sim away all pretty much the same number and then there's another slide the one that follows is called alternate and breakout costs and these are okay if we wanted to do the bump out at Pleasant Street for 1,800 additional square feet that's an additional 1.4 million so we really should take both 62 and 63 into consideration and that these are all things that might happen when we do this form right I'm just asking I'm not preferring one or the other I just want to understand what are we evaluating so I I I think in terms of the evaluation no I think the evaluation is 20,000 square feet at Pleasant Street is that 62 no this is 62 236 sorry we keep doing 263 thank you 23,600 square feet which slide number is it 62 okay out of 85 so this is called uh March 27th recal COA meeting that PDF yeah no I'm good I just don't have all right and and again so that's what we're evaluating okay if you had a question and said wow I wonder why we can't do X or why we can't do y they've given us a few things that we could do right and that would be the the out that was discussed for the the porch right that's one the kind of restructuring a bit and um this is called area constructed over Pleasant Street Garage in Lu of gy which would give you 4,800 additional square feet that's an additional $3.7 million on top okay um and then we also asked them to just understand what's the gym gym Out Gym in what's the impact of that so we can understand what it was there's also a cost for the par parking garage plus the street it's broken out so those kind of I think those aren't what we're considering but if you were concerned hey I didn't see X I think the answer is it's here just you'd factor that into as an additional cost I'm just thinking when we get to C if we know it could be done on the site in my mind that means the site could doesn't mean it will but the site could do all those things and likewise one of the categories is construction cost right and so these numbers would be have to be added to those to that criteria at the same time that youjust it now exactly yeah absolutely I think that's right and we're gonna not look at the two versions of Pleasant Street I I think it's good idea oh great nice job you get a 62 uh actually 61 yeah sorry 61 62 on my slide there you go okay thank you so again just to read it for a second so it's cost of the build out without pickle ball outdoor and sorry one more change so where it says 26,300 square feet under Oakland Road and Simons way it's incorrect it's actually 23,600 Oh I thought I put up the most I thought I put up the updated one and that's not including the TOs to the garage uh he he PDF this you can't change this and I don't think he's did an update did he yeah he updated it and sent it to me and then I sent the updated version Jackie so maybe he didn't update it again I don't know so I'll I'll double check that number so that's the usual but not the G oh that's that's just for space okay that doesn't include the these are the as I'm understanding it these are the three things that we're evaluating s right so so the cost number includes cost of the garage the space doesn't include the space for the garage because that wouldn't be useful to includ true true I just wanted to understand yes so I think you're right so the garage is a breakout cost meaning it's it's there but if you took it out all right when you were talking about the say for the breakout and for the 4800 would that be on top of this number then okay yes so the the the Top Line 2799 and then below that it says uh space not including the garage that the key there is that it's the the space of the garage that's not includ the cost of the garage is in that top number yes that that so just so you have apples and apples space where people are that's 20,000 versus 236 right but but you don't have equal then just with the 26 120 doesn't include sure those two additional spaces I'm G to go to the breakout cost top top one okay oh yeah those do spaces up there okay that's like another five million six million for the parking garage no no no no but I'm talking about over and above 26 million you'd have another five five something so it be you're talking about 31 plus they have the space add space for the air constructed over garage and a little bit of the chair yes yes that's that's the 3 3.67 yeah the 3.6 right don't you have to take off the cost of the gym off the top number 27939 it is Oh you mean yeah because that's with Delta gym is 26 what's already has it without what's the question here so in the top slide we have a number with the gym 27 and a number without the gym gym at 26 right because what it's doing is it's taking the gym gym out and it's adding in the Delta space to match the other two sides so the these two lines cost for buildout without pick aall cost for equalize program area they're intended to be common assessments at each of the sites so the first line in the first line the Pleasant Street line item includes a gym but its program space is actually less than the other two whereas Oakland Road and Simon Way have equal program space and they have the gym you go down to the second line they take the gym out of all three but they add back in 4,800 square feet into the Pleasant Street to equalize the program space got it so it yes you yes you lose the gym but you have to add back in if you wanted if you if you wanted to to do that and just take the gym out of Pleasant Street and leave it the way it was then that would go down probably somewhere in the same R range or maybe a little less but but you would only have about what 14 1350 13500 square feet versus the 1810 something like that yeah 6200 less so you would have the the equal program area without the gym is 26 and then you would add the 3.6 if you decided to do the additional no no because that that 2.6 includes the 4800 square feet I believe but it does not include the 18 the additional eight so in order to so if you go to the next slide in order to equalize it that's the construction of the additional I think it's the construction of the additional 4600 squ feet that's the three point so if you do the math right if you take the gem out of Pleasant Street and then you add in the 4600 square feet that gets you back to the 261 I believe I could be entire I may not being entirely right here um2 217 24 25 it's it's close they maybe some other costs in there as well but that's assuming you get that 1800 bump up which is not it's it's it I don't believe it is including the 1800 square F feet that's there yeah yeah like if I'm reading this I would read it as here's the cost for the build out without pickle ball usable building area with gym but not including the garage okay I understand that then it gives you the second option for all the sites without the gym but then it gives you the additional cost that it would be to add that 1,800 additional space right so you take that one point this is what I would think just being me I would add the 1.4 onto both of those costs so I would add that onto the Pleasant Street first with the with the gym and I would add it in addition to without the gym so it' be 1.5 on top of the 27 million and 1.5 on top of the 26 million that's how I would read it I think that's right yeah okay but I think maybe very high level for a second here you have one option if you want exactly the same square footage in each location without a gym that's the second line cost for equalized program area without gym okay um so but that does not include the garage it's to get to 18,000 square feet usable area all three buildings not including garage right the garage is an additional you need the garage because the space is not so I think to John's point that means that we've brought back some more square footage right instead of the garage instead of the okay in both so the garage cost is probably down below right cost is something yeah so then you gotta add the six yeah okay to the 26 I think it would be great to have Joel just literally say okay this is exactly how it works yes precisely just so we don't have any questions sure but I think what we can read is that if you're looking for the same program space at three sites that's the cost for equalized program area without gym right so just said I don't care about a gym I don't care about parking I don't care about anything except square footage of usable space you've got three numbers then you have another option which is say okay here's kind of how we built out the different the three different options so it's going to be built out no pickle ball but it's going to include the gym in the three sites at Pleasant Street that gives you 20,000 square feet total at Oakland Road and Simons is 23,600 and here are the costs and there's someone but even the top one does not include the garage yeah the top one says does not include garage because I think it's got the gym instead of the second what are you talk which this first one so usable building area with gym but not including garage it doesn't include the garage spaceace square footage right doesn't the square footage in in the in the calculation but the cost okay that's so this this should just say be better even just to say this is the the program space that's program space right you great just to say that that's program space Yes program space 20,000 at Pleasant Street 236 the other two locations at roughly equal cost or take away the gym again I can't I'm not sure what not including garage is anymore I'm gonna say it's program space again 181 181 18 oh no were back down one more down right there that one so again equal space at all three locations no gym involved those are the the estimated costs so the Delta of $4 million so this is putting back the program space that we would be giving up for the gym at Pleasant Street or not that that's the that's the second line item that is so it's back it's 4,800 square feet or something like that so in a sense we are still considering that model because we're looking at all well you know it's interesting looking at this looking at the criteria again and again this is just me um this is all about site selection in in many ways um so in some respects the specific okay that's not entirely true it's not that the specific in um design or implication isn't the same but there are some general things that you can assess um I I I actually do think it is very important for all of us COA recal anybody that's involved in this process to um come to the table with specific recommendations and ideas about these other pieces um because I I I I kind of feel that it isn't in my mind going to be a recommendation that's up or down on a particular thing that's been put in front of us but it may be a little bit of a menu of choices where we say you know this is this is the site but here's how we want to configure it and these are the pieces that we include or not include and you know I mean Pleasant Street obviously I think is the one that stands out in my mind that has the most potential pluses and minuses the others I mean there's really only one or two other criteria I can think of at the moment that would would influence primarily cost and specific of it but I think it's important that we we come prepared to talk about those those things as well um I mean you know what is included in the in the site you know impacts not just costs but timing and all sorts of other things too so I I do think we we need to take a little bit more time when we think about that and have that conversations amongst ourselves um because I think that's that's really the work that that's really the work that has to be done filling out the spreadsheet okay if you have a concept of an idea of which things you want to work on okay you can do that but it's the other P it's actually the other sheet it's actually this this other sheet here that's you know that's gu it's the really one well I gave this one 20 points because x y and z um you know and those things kind of flush out well this is what I really think we should do and here's why and these are the pieces that I would include and this is what I wouldn't include so I I I I think there's there is going to be a fair amount of discussion that we should plan on having around those pieces I agree totally um and going back to what you said Mark about what the study showed and yes there is interest in an active Living Center but the majority of them said that they wanted a senior center some want pure and some want it with but the majority still I no I didn't see the majority said pure they didn't say that no that combined it makes a majority the majority of the respondents either asked for a senior center alone or a senior center with active Living Center that's where we get to that so it it's it's there so I think it's a very badly worded question but we need to be careful also so there's not a question that it needs to serve the 60 plus Community it must period end of story then we ask people what's their Vision in that Vision you did have more people that said they were they had interest in seeing it serve other needs too not a majority right the largest but it's two it's not not giving anything up not taking anything away right it's very badly not taking anything away okay but that's that's what this discussion is potentially about that when we do get to the space is are we taking some stuff away so so I guess I there's one other takeaway that I get from this too which is that if if it is just an issue of let's get an equal amount of space we have one site that's going to cost 25% more to work on it all just needs to be considered I mean and we need to think about the priorities and going back to John's point there are a lot of people who want the senior center priority is space so I'm hoping you're not saying that the priority is it's say I think I'm hoping what you're saying is the priority is that it's a center for active living that accommodates the needs of the h60 plus has potential to accept the growth in that population and has the potential to work more broadly in the community personally I'm fine with that personally so so that's that's a a cow accommodat needs to get defined and that will come when we get to looking at what does it really mean to get right and I think one of the things that that I would find useful in this disc question is what does it mean to um to have this sen your space how how exclusive does it has to be can you use that space for other things at other times at any time um and my my problem is when I hear this when I hear of exclusive use for for seniors I think okay when the seniors leave the center they lock the door and that's it that no one else else can ever use that space and I hear you and you always shake your head but I don't you know that's what exclusive use means com what I hear you saying is exactly what Michael I don't say exclusive ever no but but people dedicated I'm don't even saying dedicated think it's another way to see it but that's just saying that's the same thing as Center for active living and I'm just gonna share my screen for this yeah in whatever it is whenever wherever it happens when people see their version whatever the new pleasantries is called I don't want them to see that there are fewer options available to them than they I think the best thing to make sure there more options is to get the most you know I mean I just I'm sorry I just can't see based on every presentation that we've gone through just even looking at the stuff's in front of us here that you're going to have less space and less options than what you have today by Street we won't have less space I'm worried about the options I I I just can't I can't see case how can you possibly say I'm still reac I'm reacting to the ones that said you've got three dedicated spaces you know that's already explained read that roll up I think that this is a really good slide too because it goes back to the um genology question and I think it is kind of clear with the results that you know you could see the demographics of people obviously it as you go down people start to prefer an alleges Community Center um and there's nothing really you know it's it's kind of loud and clear there so we're getting full community support or full and as you go up older ones it's a reverse right exactly yeah right which makes but there's still there's still a good amount of less like less than about 50% of Ages 70 to 79 would like to would prefer an Alles Community Center so that's I personally prefer what I just want to understand what I think everybody on this committee from day one said we're gonna build a nice Community Center that's gonna service our seniors way better than it ever has before as long as that's I think everyone here has committed to that by far as long as active Living Center but yes as long as it out that way that's fine with me that means it's my opinion but I I know why it was questioned I still don't know why it was questioned because it was never questioned from us that that we weren't going to create a better Center Center active Living Center that was going to service the 60 plus Community better than it ever has ever and again I think I think it got set up by some of the early diagrams in the three rooms I think we've been consistent and they even talked about locking the doors Sor we've been we've been very consistent on this I still know why it's being mik ask me to pull the slide up um SE can I'm sorry but we're getting close to the end I need to run too but what can we make sure we have a clearcut set of actions between now and our next meeting okay we are filling out online that's what we all y committed sending them in individually to J individually we have to have a meeting to review that I think uh as far as action steps uh not now but we're talking about recommendation we will make a recommendation Vis the gym talked about that would be case uh I think we have agreed it seemed like so put it to the group that we would want to have a something that's both that comes from recal pal on Aging as far as a recommendation hopefully that that would go to town meeting and select so when is our next the other way around when is our next meeting that's that's what we have to before that I think what we also asked for was to ask Joel to clarify that slide completely I think it's the right slide I think that the words below the numbers yeah can be clarified so that we're clear just everything is so this is what you get here exactly right this is the space this is whatever you want to call it but the usable space is what we need so that first line everybody says I know exactly what that is the same thing for the second line where it says it's 18,100 for everybody what does that mean love it to say for Pleasant Street that means um you're adding the 4800 square feet or whatever it is whatever that is so that we know what that means and that's why that cost is is different than the other two because I've added back some square footage boom and then we just take a look at that right but is it also clear that we're when we're filling this out we're doing it based on the same number the top top line you know basically the same same dollar cost that's why you you has to simplify it right but but that's yeah does that mean we wait until we get that clarification before we should fill this up I think that should take him 15 to 20 minutes okay and if we could get that quickly because do you want do you want him to break it down with the total cost like the total cost it would be at Pleasant Street with um 1500 additional space okay I just no one slide one up slide PR I don't know if you get that I just want to make sure I on this SL okay so in that line that we're looking cost build up without pickle ball right now says usable building area with gym but not including garage love it to say you know Pleasant Street you know this is 20,000 square feet does not include any additional space that's on the chart below yeah okay y um but and and it's clear it says but includes a gym and then Oakland Road and Simon way I think are fine but with the right number 23,600 then the line below it Coster equalize program without gym it says 181 across really wanted to say so for Pleasant Street here's what that means so the gym came out that's minus 4600 square feet 4,800 square feet is added back in um and it includes the the garage so we know exact what's going on so it's like okay so here's what you're talking about moving you took this out and you put that in okay so we can understand why that number is $26 million that'll really help okay and in the other two I expect him to say that is just taking out the gym all I did is take out the square footage of the gym I did nothing else then we know exactly what each line represents right but which one are we going to be basing a survey right so from I think it's the line yeah okay but if someone comes back and says you know what I less you know I I would rather see the the non- Jim version and from a site perspective not the insides but a site perspective how would I fill out that sheet I don't think it would be different I don't think right right yeah I don't think it's different just to stay on the site that that's why I commented that I think it is it is more than just filling out the checklist and doing that I think everybody does need to consider all the other pieces and understand when they come to have a conversation around the site what how else we want to convey what we may think are the priorities that we would include or not include which could be impacted by cost it could be impacted by right but but when you say not including garage a Pleasant Street to me that's to me that's just no poet just just why Mark is asking the question no but I'm talking about location it does make a difference location it does include the it includes the part the words are bad yeah the words are bad I think so so what's going on is the words aren't clear I think it really it includes the cost of the garage right but what it's saying is that 20,000 square feet do include the 19,000 square feet of garage okay that's why it's that's why it has to be claried it's not clear enough I think we're all same thing same okay yes I do think it's obvious but yes it's not clear long it's a late night um all right so I'm ask the question again what are we meeting next okay uh assuming that we do get that quick turnar around and we have that simplified so everybody's clear exactly what we're fing it out on and I know we get town meeting coming up in three weeks town meeting is the week of uh the first Thursday is the 25th or 25th okay we need to be before then yeah right yes yeah so the week before because we we limited because Passover is that week that's why P meeting is all right so it has to be in two weeks so Wednesday the 17th voter meeting but that's okay you can still meet here and I can meet there what what what what um what do people have available is uh is there s for meeting on the 16th there's not can we do Tuesday I can join at 7:30 yeah join earlier day 7:30 on Tuesday the 16th do go to 10:30 Done Quick I have a nine and a 10 but I can do 7:30 to 9 I'm good with that okay 7:30 on 60 we could probably do that zo both some folks easier to sit at the table but question was can we do with zoom only just down together I mean I think it's going to be a work Comm meeting across the table I we got to we do it here um I think that the council and aging is booked in this room see about Burger should this be a joint meeting I mean we're looking to have a a an opinion that's unified between the two groups right it would we would be here till midnight but how do you want us to get to the unified I don't think we're I don't think we C ready to have that I I I think it would be a bit unwieldy all right but but I'm not disagreeing that we don't have to have a a conjoint mean I'm just saying I think we need to really get our heads around it first before we have a have a broader conversation so question would it make sense for us to try to meet on the 10th instead so and then maybe have a joint meeting the following that's an that's that's a possibility if people wednes so meet have us meet next Wednesday the 10th and then have a joint meeting the following week I can't be here next week but you you've you've started the zoom before Mark um we have historical Commission so oh I could come in and give an update when it's over that' be excellent so as long as someone's okay with start like I could probably come in and start it no need to come in and start yeah because I'll I'll be here anyways so I could if you needed me too that would be on there's probably another um meeting room available in what time anytime I have 6:30 I was going to say that's fine I'm flexible thatly I'm at 10th 6:30 on the 10th yep better right okay I might make 17 and the 17th is a shared the 16 16th yeah 16 at 6:30 sorry 7 7:30 hopefully this this is not do do the um we can't because it's not set up for Zoom capability we can look at the library we could also look at the select board room I know that um I tried to book joint meeting in the select Board Room last time but conservation had it but he said that he'd be willing to switch the next time that happened so I can look into all the rooms tomorrow and try to find a bigger space that number of people is not conducive to interaction yeah on the 17th I booked the abutters meeting there where but I think that you guys switched into the 16th right yeah 16 and there's no select board meeting in that room so we should be able to 16 correct 10th 6 10th and 6:30 7:30 and is that a joint meeting yes for COA meeting on the 16th already yep there's already a COA special meeting scheduled make sure that they're okay they're okay with making joint meeting we can't just need to check with Nancy sure um good and so what we want to be able to do is get as quickly as we can from tomorrow yeah we can get his clarifications that would be great okay and then can do the surveys one goes by the 10 you said oh yeah and did you want me obviously we could fix number six that'll be pretty easy but did you want more clarification on operational costs too before I the one with the insurance and or with it do we know what the differentiation would be it's almost like you know my temp it us tendency would be something like that just give everybody the same if I don't know great but how about if we ask Jo all the same thing are there things that we need to understand about the sites that would be different one site versus another yeah because I think it would be the parking garage would be the garage repairs yes maintenance of a parking garage like those are the things that I could think of off hand right but that's that's ongoing yeah I think what we wanted what we want to do is where where things are kind of locked then tell us what it is sure um and then it may have higher or lesser importance to us for what reason or another but that's fine that's for us great I'll just ask for clarification why would Insurance be bu unless saying it wouldn't but why would it vary from one location to I know if it's different close to a gun range I have no idea it could be close to by I thought you know close to Wetlands might have been TI of that released that would be good feedback also just on any of those where there are kind of expert information that would clarify the differences sure to share that yeah one more question about process my understanding we we unfortunately had two cancelled COA meetings this week so Monday we're going to end up doing just what you guys have been doing tonight exactly and my understanding was this is essentially we're testing the form it's it's a fake thing is what I was told right but are is that what we're doing or are we actually making a decision okay well no no not making a decision a recommendation but not well the form is forms the form is not going to make the recommendation I think that's what we clarified earlier all right but whatever we fill out on these forms the assumption is that is going to be what Joel's going to work with to make his recommendation no no no no what's going to town meeting out of this I'm just trying to understand nothing from those directly it's going to inform us okay where we're our discussion so that yes okay we're collecting input and I think one of the hopes would be that if we see differences in certain things right that's the impetus for discussion okay yes that makes sense and further back to to John's point from before folks you need to come together on this or else nothing's going to happen and I would hate to see that be the case would be a shame I think everybody right so we need to figure this out whatever it is we need to figure it out absolutely and more meetings together it just save a lot of time and get things we discussed here that others haven't even heard yet so we're going to have to backtrack which maybe it has to happen well the problem going to be at joint meeting I think we'd have to more limit participation from people who are non-members just because they haven't had they weren privy to the right discussion so you be repeating things not that people can't ask questions not saying that but it's going to be a more limited thing than what we would do when we have a just to I I think it would be very important for each of the groups and others that might be involved to find a way to go forward the discussion if we go backward recal disappears in June and I fear that this project could disappear I suggest strongly each group find a way to get forward to move ahead somehow whatever that means whatever that takes we need to find that and come to agreement if we don't do that and we come together into a big room I can't say the word that comes to mind but it won't go well I'm just saying the more we're together we have a clue what the other one's thinking and be more efficient I think we already are hearing that I think that it feels to me like at the moment the groups aren't feeling the same thing that Ron kind of talked about some stuff that I I would agree with I yes as many in the room would I think the COA needs to do the same thing and we need to find a way where there's enough commonality in that that we're going to get to a point where we say this is what we want to do so I would hope that the first steps would be location and amount of space y you know if we can't agree on on on those then I don't see how we you know the other things yeah can I just say so timelines so this group right now expires June 30th sunsets um if we are able to move everything ahead which is our plan and goal at some point the select board would take the recommendation ask for more come to some point where they agree on something and go and say permanent building committee it's time to form a building committee it's time to take this forward and to be clear that building committee is comprised of all of the current members of the permanent building committee and probably one to two total other people that's how it works with the schools that's how it's worked with all the other projects that have been successful in the town so it's not a a big Gathering of course anybody can attend there's no issue of that but in terms of voting members it's a very very narrow probably a couple of sponsoring agencies stop we need to get there we need to have a project to take there one project that we are seeing closely enough together that it's like this will be great let's do it and then we have to do the Heart part which is to convince town meeting in the town that they should do it fair enough motion let's s a motion to ajour motion to a journ I just want to say that was the update on recal sun setting yes okay I'm yes yes I took that as all right all right all in favor okay meetings are J thanks folks e e