##VIDEO ID:6aqxQiGCow0## e e e e e e e e e e e e recording in progress them come up online mute everybody while you're doing that the time is seven on sure I was going to volunteer will be my first I recomend the most recent minutes like July 26 okay just lead out what was that and leave the the framework in okay and follow the same format where we write down how everybody voted and stuff like that okay Chuck you ready ready yes okay here we go hello everyone this is Chuck tone readings conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter two of the acts of 2023 which further extends covid-19 measures regarding remote participation and public meetings until March 31st 2025 please note that all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law this agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting please note this meeting is being recorded all material for this meeting will be available at the following link for those who are on uh Zoom I'll send that link now um ran Bo the conservation chair will facilitate this meeting please note that there will be public comment period for each hearing each vote taken during tonight's meeting will be conducted by roll call vote we begin with a roll call attendance Brian can you please view tonight's agenda and take the attendance that we do attendance first uh I'll ask for everybody to say they present to be sure we can hear them and vice versa uh this is the order that we will vote in uh the first person is Walter Walter talet member present Tony Tony rakis member present ster member pres cigo member present Mar Martha Moore Vice chair present Brian bro chair present okay now review of the agenda for tonight um first thing we have is a continuation of a hearing for zero seedar swamp the next hearing is uh opening an RDA hearing for 323 Main Street the next is to open a public hearing for noi for 555 West Street then we are opening a hearing for an RDA for 1312 Main Street then we have opening a public hearing for an noi for 11 Pine Veil and then we'll have the usual old new business with a number of discussion items among those discussion items we have two certificates of compliance to address um having said that that's a pretty full agenda so be aware of me trying to move this along um and that with that in mind the first hearing is z zero zedar swamp my understanding that has been um the applicant has asked for continuation is that to August 28 August 28th yeah okay um I move that we continue the hearing on zero seedar swamp to August 28th Tony I second that Walter talit in favor Tony rakus in favor J fer in favor in favor martham Moore in favor Brian B in favor so that's by roll call vote 6 Z 5 Zer one two three four six check my ma yeah okay uh then we'll move on to uh 323 main main street and I'll start by reading the opening blurb open the public hearing on request for determin termination of applicability followed by Edward can can canteros sininsky under the Massachusetts weth and protection act mgl chapter 131 chapter 40 and or Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes to install a catch Basin and recharge system within an existing parking lot to mitigate ponding and Implement storm water treatment prior to being discharge into nearby Wetlands all work is within the buffer zone to a bordering vegetated Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading Mass 01867 and on the conservation div division page under project by year assessors map 12 lot 109 file 2024 D5 uh and who is here to present for on the um I'm in I'm here on on Zoom jouce yourself the record absolutely this is J my name is Javan federa I'm a project engineer owner of federa engineering out of danver's mass um so this is bega World um 323 Main Street and ring um there is a proposed storm water system being uh proposed on the Northern corner of the property of the existing parking lot the existing property right now is mostly you know impervious um and there are some bordering vegetated wetlands in the rear which would be to the East and I can share my screen if that's easier um so I this is a plan from 20 2005 so it's you know a little over it's about 20 years old and so there were Wetlands that were flagged um in the abing property and this was you know like I said 20 years ago um they if you look at the Town GIS there aren't any Wetlands that show up on the gis but this plan shows wetlands and and you know if you go back there you can you can visibly see that there's Wetlands back there and so we use this as our um Wetland boundary and how we we just scaled it on our plan uh you can see so the subject property is over here um this kind of triangle shape uh prop the property and in right in the rear you have a wetland over here with these flags um and there's a isolated Wetland over here but we use this to scale on our plan that we Pro uh provided and you can see the uh setbacks over here you have a 35 foot no disturbance Zone um similarly over here and then the 100 foot uh setback which you know cuts through almost half of the property um but here we have in the northern corner of the parking lot um a catch Basin and it directs to an infiltration system and an overflow would be directed to the rear um and that's a surface just overflow orifice that in in an extreme storm um any runoff would just go directed to the back but the way that it's currently going on right now is that there's no storm water um infrastructure so every time it rains there some ponding that goes back there um and you know you have sediment basically just you know free flowing to the wetlands back there right and there's no form of um you know treatment so you're having untreated storm water just go to the rear and by implementing this you're going to have a cash bacing with the sump that takes into account for 25% TSS removal and then the ctech system which will the infiltra uh infiltrating system which um it accounts for 80% t assess removal and this ctech system is sized to capture 1% this area on site um it's the parking lot's going to stay the same size that it is today and I'm aware that there was some work that was started uh recently and um I have some pictures it raised a few concerns with Commissioners and I was unaware that the work started um but what was going going on and you know I got a hold of the contractor so they started some Granite curving so in in place of what was there previously the binus uh asphalt um burm they replaced it with granite curbing uh just to pretty much you know capture any additional runoff that's going to offsite right you know so now it's all contained within the parking lot and uh would be treated here are a few pictures this work was uh these pictures were taken I believe today um so um I I know some Commissioners went out there and there was concerns that there wasn't any uh erosion control barrier um in the rear that was protecting the Wetland so this was installed uh this is a picture that was taken today couple other pictures of the work that was uh going on and this was this was just I mean it was a miscommunication between um myself and you know the site contractor so you know we they they did not intend to do any harm by doing work without having the approvals with the conservation uh first Conservation Commission so you know I mean they they did Apologize um and I know that they you know they weren't trying to cause any any harm by doing this work so just a few more pictures um so that's the granite cbon being installed but I mean it looks like they did a pretty good job for the work that was uh they were doing more erosion control barrier but um the site currently is now you know you know contained with this erosion control barrier so it kind of gives a little bit of reassurance um you know in the sense of uh untreated storm water that's going to the wetlands but um so that's the overview of the project I'm I'm happy to um open it up to the commission answer any questions and uh yeah I help clarify this so thank you okay um then before we have questions do you want to cover our site visit there sure I'd be able to talk about what we saw on the site visit um Walter who's on Zoom and Brian and I were the ones who did the site visit and um noticed that the curbing was being installed already um some other things I noticed was um there is fencing on the south side of the property that doesn't seem to be drawn in on the plan um in back of those last four parking spaces in the back corner um that looks relatively new was that part of this same curb project or is that been there for a little while um I'm I'm not sure um but you're saying that there is it does it look like new uh permanent fencing that was installed not on that edge but go a right angle and come South come down over here yeah but not that far down just in corner yeah right in there along that property boundary there seems to be fencing that I don't see drawn on your plan okay not something I'm really complaining about but um I just noticed it and then um when they were doing the work in that same back corner they had pulled out some look like concrete Sono tubes and they were lying on the ground there um back in that last Park space and they had a pile of broken pieces of asphalt further towards the 100t line right about where your cursor is um have those been cleaned up already yes so from my understanding all stock piling uh has been cleaned up and removed off site and the granite curbing stockpile that was also in that back corner has all been installed by now that is correct right um moving northward along the back of the property there is a hole in the fence um about three more parking spaces yep right about where your cursor is and there are some wooden pallets leaning up against the back side of the fence there um so just in terms of thinking about litter in the um 100 foot Zone it seems like somebody just hid these old wood pallets behind the fence and you could see them through that missing fence panel um so I would love to see those cleaned up when this project is done okay and then um moving around to the corner where the cultech chambers are going to be um your photo of the um erosion control that was just put in looks like the erosion control meets the chain link fence um at the corner where the new curbing is put in but on your map it goes up quite a bit further on the um edge of the property boundary um so you see where I'm talking about yeah if you over here yeah yeah but keep going keep going along there and down yeah that piece of erosion control looks like it meets the back end of that chain link fence rather than going through the chain link fence and over to the property boundary because there's a chain link fence all further back from the where the ctech chambers are it goes all the way back to the back corner apparently and that's not drawn on your plan either um so I'm thinking that the erosion control they put down doesn't come up as far as it's shown on your plan okay I I I think the they put the erosion control barrier just kind of as like a emergency response of the work that was being completed um so once uh construction of the CeX system to be installed I'm sure they're going to just push the erosion control back a little bit more just to make sure that there's enough for them to install this overflow orace okay so that won't be the final position of the erosion control no I was trying to figure out how they're going to make the erosion control continuous when there's a chain link fence going through the place that you've drawn it on the diagram I see yeah okay um so I'm sure there's a way but I'm not familiar with putting erosion control through a chain link fence so um I I'd like to see that secure so that there's not a channel where the fence comes through okay um okay um we also noticed that there was some litter um behind the fence um it's a tall fence hard to see over unless you're me um but people have clearly been throwing their Bagel World litter over the fence into the woods so I'd love to see some of that litter cleaned up as much as possible when you're doing this construction and I also noticed that the north property boundary says landscaped area all the way along um but that landscaped area near the street has a couple of shrubs but further back is pretty much bare ground and then a thing with dog waste bags in it but really no plantings all the along that landscaped area so that seems to me to be an opportunity to um improve that landscaped area back to what it's claiming to be rather than just um hard pack dirt um so um I think that's all the comments I had from the site visit maybe Brian or Walter has anything else to contribute covers it from my perspective wal anything you want to add to that think he's muted okay while Walter figures it out I realized I have two more notes there is also bitter Suite in the area where around where the erosion control is being put in and it looked from your picture that maybe you've actually cut some of that bitter Suite in order to put in the erosion control but I'd like to see as much of that Bittersweet removed as possible from that um uh let's call it northeast corner of the property um [Music] and what else did I make a note of oh um where they were building the curb in that northeast corner there was a pile of dirt have they cleaned up that pile of dirt yes okay there now I'm really done uh Walter do you have anything you want to add yes please um CH Ry would you kindly show the slides again go back about two or three uh show the protection barrier go one is it this picture you're talking about there was another one that looked very similar might have been this one it looks as if a lot of the debris was either removed or tramped down to put that in like I just remember being very thick through there yeah a lot of the vegetation is not there at this point that we saw when we were there some of that is the uh Bittersweet I was saying I was glad to see they got rid of but it looks like they tramped down some others I agree Walter and then the other question I have is uh why did you folks choose a 1- inch rainfall for the design criteria when it seems like uh we're going to get more and more so when it comes to water quality treatment the standard is one inch in an area with uh higher infiltrating soils um lower infiltrating soils require a half inch of uh storm water runoff so uh we're we're treating one inch of rainfall and that meets the uh criteria for water quality treatment and then you mentioned that the Overflow is treated what treatment would the Overflow be getting uh so the treatment train essentially is the cat first the uh infiltration cack second and as storm water really starts to um you know overflow the Overflow is the last piece of the treatment system and that's when water just uh sheet flows out of the orifice and into the wetlands so by the time it reaches that overflow orifice it's already gone through the catch Basin the CCH uh system and out to the Wetland so it's been fully treated at that point it's not a case of last in uh first out then correct thank you okay are there any other questions from the commission there any questions besides your observations um I'm just wondering what will prevent erosion at that overflow orifice is there any sort of um gravel or stone pad that it's overflowing onto or is it just going to wash away the dirt around that orifice it'll just um it it's not expected to have a um you know like a high velocity overflow it'll be low velocity overflow um because you will still have that volume of the CeX system as well as the infiltration of the CeX so um you know while the Overflow orifice is being used and water is being discharged from that at the same time storm water is also being infiltrated by the ctech system so you have that decrease in uh Peak rate a runoff just because the infiltration is working at the same time that it's overflowing so it won't be a it's not anticipated to be a high velocity over overflow so it'll just be overflowing in the uh area right around it have you got a picture of that in your diagrams there is a yeah so that's that's what this is right here okay yeah so it'll come up through the great correct does anybody with more engineering knowledge than me have thoughts about whether that's going to be sufficient Tony has his handed up Tony hi yes thank you um have you done have you dug any test pits to to measure the infiltration rate in the area that you're proposing to put the the Basin yeah so we had has pit done right here um it was ly Sands which has a it's a high infiltration soil so uh it drains well and we did measure the estimated seasonal high water table so we did make sure that the CCH system would be at least two feet above the seasal high water table and how did you measure that um by test fit right but what criteria did you use to establish the the water level um it was uh we were looking at redo and so once we saw the re we hit redo and that's kind of it was a clear indication between the lomy sand and then the redo level um so that's what we used okay thank you you're welcome okay are there any other questions um okay I have a question um so gvan in your presentation you were saying that um the town GIS doesn't show weapons back there but if you click on the mass GIS uh layer it does show weapons all behind back there can you explain the difference I uh I I I thought the town GIS just showed no Wetlands back there but we weren't you know we were using the data that was supported in this plan right here um so the difference really there really is no difference I mean the town GIS sometimes doesn't follow the state Mass d uh layers so different layers but I I'm I may have missed the Mast Wetland layers on the gis yeah okay um I'm not sure if it's meaningful um so if I understand this um after more than one inch of rain in a given storm the water will go through an outlet after having been treated to some extent by the surface of the cultech chamber and then go to the Wetland does that and I know you talked about the what is it 80 85% um reduction [Music] in pollutant and what have you but how do you think that's going to handle uh effluence from cars and what have you more oily and what have you how do you think that's going to be handled uh I it it meets the mass standards of treatment so it enters into a cach base first within that cast Bas has a deep sump with the a hood so very this is what it would look like from a cross-sectional standpoint the cach Basin so any oils that are built up from vehicles um you know it would be contained pretty much within this sump and that's what the hood is for just so that it kind of acts as like a a barrier for the oils to be entering into the uh system um and the let me clarify the volume of the CCH system so one inch of rainfall multiplied by the area the tributary area would be equal to 625 cubic feet of rainwater so the the sto the storage from this CeX system is over that it's um 657 cubic feet so it's greater than one inch of rain rainfall that would be directed here and um assuming you know assuming there's no infiltration during the time of when the first in inch of rainfall is getting discharged uh here you know um essentially this CeX system would fill up you know but that's assuming no infiltration obviously infiltration will be working but you know it it has a storage volume of uh 1 in greater than a little bit greater than one inch of rainfall so so let me cut to the chase then so your design covers the current standards um what would it take if you were to overdesign the chamber to account for what is now inevitable increase in rain in the forcoming months and years places it talks about 40 40 to 50% increase I'm not saying you got to cover all of that but is there a way to uh increase the volume at least somewhat uh well you know what the the owner of this property is willingly installing this ctech system because of the puddling right and that's just for their customers and making sure that the parking back there is is not being interrupted whenever it rains you know so there is no added impervious areas so the peak rates of runoff between existing and proposed is going to remain the same how actually it's going to now decrease because we've now implemented uh infiltration right you know so um the peak rate of runoff now we didn't run that calculation because um we felt it was just unnecessary we're really just proving that we're we're meeting the water quality treatment and um but now that there's added infiltration the Peak rates of runoff will be decreased by installing the system so um if you look at what is there you know existing and what will be there afterwards it's a totally improved um design and parking lot it's you know from you know every aspect there there won't be any puddling anymore and as well as the storm water uh it's going to be treated instead of having just unfiltered water directed to the wetlands so it's it's overall an improved system and you know increasing the ctech system might just be unnecessary okay um Mara I had a couple more questions I forgot that I wanted to ask um I'm a little concerned about the dumpster being right next to this um place where the rain water is being collected is there any concern about um uh leachate from the dumpster combining with the rain water and ending up out in the um Wetland does that get treated at all it it gets treated you know the same way that oils from Vehicles would be captured by the cat Basin and that F 4 foot sump with the hooded Outlet usually is is sufficient for Park lot um design the ground under the dumpster the pavement under the dumpster is also draining toward that same catch Basin yes okay and um are you at all concerned about having a oil or grease separator involved in this project would that be a useful thing to include I don't I don't think it would be necessary um parking lots with with uh dumpster enclosures normally do just sheet flow Overland over the parking lot into cat Basin so adding an oil separator um I don't think that would be necessary and do you have an operation and maintenance plan for this um ctech chamber system uh we may have included one and if not I can absolutely provide that to the owner and have them maintain it usually ctech the manufacturer has a operation and maintenance plan that comes with their uh you know standard specifications so um that can totally be provided I think we' want to have it set to Chuck as well as to the owners okay I'm done okay last call for commission members before I ask Chuck okay Chuck you have anything sure um so I do think that you should put some rip wrap around the uh discharge area of the infiltration system and that should be pretty easy and my other question is if I I I'm assuming you're not this is all brand new why aren't you delivering that clean water uh closer to the Wetland area um we figured to just have it uh right there I mean we can we can move it if if you like it would just be you know added uh trenching and added pipe but nothing major is there any issues with water coming back into the parking lot or is the slopes in your favor no the slopes in the favor okay I think the uh and that was the picture that we looked at with the Japanese not weed in it and bitter Suite so I guess I would be in favor also of vegetating that area with something so you don't start tracking all that uh sediment into the next property so okay that's all I have uh you answered my other question about the Deep sum so that's all I have okay now it's time for general public uh if you have a comment can you please approach the podium hold on Brian yeah I've got my hand I couldn't see hand up apologize no problem um I just wanted to say I I wouldn't want to put the infiltration area too close to the Wetland I think you're going to want to have a little bit of distance uh to let the Organics uh once they get into the ground um attenuate a little bit bit and let the bugs heat it up before before the Clean Water gets gets into the um into the Wetland I it's it's going to be mostly clean it's you know we're talking what 80% removal they'll still be a little bit there uh we want to make sure we we have enough distance for um for the microbes in in in the ground water and the ground system to to finish cleaning it okay I know the uh Massachusetts STM water handbook they do have a um a criteria for it's like a a vegetated um surface when you have 45 I believe it's 45 feet of length of vegetated surface of storm water um sheep flowing that length it it accounts for a TSS removal I can't remember off the top of my head the TSS removal but um when you are at that you know 50 foot Mark of um you know sheet flowing over you know vegetated surface it does have a TSS removal Associated to it we did not take that into account here but um it is a good point that you mentioned um you know keeping that distance from the W Wetland so I mean I think we're right around that uh we're very close to 50 feet where the Overflow orifice is located right now to the approximate Wetland boundary so um so by the time it does reach the Wetlands it should have a little bit more than uh 80% TSS removal based on that um you know 50 foot cheap flow thank you thanks Tony okay general public if you have a comment can you please come to the podium and give us your name and address for the record my name is Bill stanel I'm the owner of 335 Main Street can you spite your last name for it I'm sorry stal like substantial without the sub s n t i a l and maybe for the engineer you could help me just a question I have because we we own the bordering property the commercial property and we went through some water issues ourselves 20 25 years ago and you'll see some old records here that we had a sale built because of water um have Rec catch basins so I think my question would be not quite understanding is this going to add to our water where we're susceptible in our back corner of our building if you want to put up the map I can show you I'm talking about the map showing yeah absolutely um ouch this this map right here yeah exactly so I do is um our property right here this is our building here 335 main this is our parking lot so you were showing the chain link fence and that's ours on this side we had issues years AG with conservation is we had to put a sale back in here and we do have three catch Basin um thankfully you know it's all worked out but as you mentioned we worry about heavy heavy rain and if this catch Basin goes in will that affect ours I think that's my question I don't know so Gan can you tell what area he was talking about kind of off camera absolutely um think you're talking about your parking area right here that's cor yeah the corner there yes that's where water issues yeah yeah so uh by installing the song water system the ctech system um it's going to improve the site with st water runoff 100% I mean you know immensely and it's and that's because we're not adding impervious area if we were adding impervious area um you know it would be more concerning and more of a question but because the impervious area currently what it is today and what it will be it's it's the same but now the only difference is that we're adding an underground cultex system we've now captured storm water runoff that was previously just sheet flowing to the wetlands Overland it's now being captured and you know put getting put back into the ground by infiltration and um there there's going to be a decrease in sheet flow and rainwater that would be um directed elsewhere from the property so it it's going to improve the site and the surrounding area immensely thank you that's what I I didn't understand so thank you it doesn't make it worse I'm happy does anybody else have any questions on this project okay um so this is an RDA one more comment before you vote oh you do yeah okay uh Gio I was just wondering if the engineering department has uh reviewed this plan um I did talk to Ryan and um he hasn't made any formal comments but he he we we had a conversation on the phone he did mention something that he he seemed okay with it but he hasn't uh given a memorandum at all I can request one and I can have him formally provide a a um you know satisfactory review so I would say you absolutely need to have that in writing before proceeding absolutely um is Ryan Ryan's around right just he's not we'll be back next week okay do we have to have that before we can vote you just make it a contingency that they have to have engineering's approval prior to the start of work written approval and I have to get a copy of that right okay so that's a condition for this right so do you want to hear all that absolutely okay so Ryan is out till next week sometime so you probably want to have it waiting for him in his inbox but I need to have that 800 other emails yeah I'm sure um so given that we can vote on this and have that as a condition along with any other conditions we want to attach um having said that can I have a motion uh on this and after we make the motion we can list our conditions okay I would move that we issue a negative de determination of applicability for 323 Main Street this is Tony I second okay now now you would list your conditions okay um so one of my conditions would be to put in um Brown cover and Native shrubs native ground cover and Native shrubs in the landscaped area that is in our jurisdiction which is the 100 foot setback line okay um I also would like to see Bittersweet removal and replacement plantings in that area which is in that sort of triangle corner of the property where they're going to be doing the work so doing some planting after you've done the construction to try to keep the Bittersweet from reclaiming the area what kind of plantings are you thinking ground cover and shrubs so okay um so you think that needs a planting plan or is that Overkill do you want to know the names of the shrubs and how many I would say they could turn that into Chuck okay all right um um and then I want to see the litter and the pallets removed from behind the fencing those are the three that matter to me then we have then we when we just talked about uh which is written approval from engineering and a copy with that needs to go to Chuck as well and the rip wrap around the orifice yeah so we're up to five I think I took Walter's Thunder on that one okay uh does anybody have any other conditions that we've missed Ryan we said we would ask for an operations maintenance plan you are correct sir and to add rip wrap the outflow yeah we got that that's good that's six and seven we set the erosion control at the start of this phase two of the project right so to the planned Place Okay so we've moved for negative determination we have some conditions can we now vote on it talit in favor Tony R lockas in favor in favor Mo in favor Marth Mo in favor Rano in favor 60 by roll Co route okay thank you thank you all right the next one is 555 West Street I know we have some people here who are ding to make a presentation please introduce yourself for the two people in the hi good evening my name is Moren Harold from noris Environmental Services here with me tonight are the patels as well we're GNA have this on the screen if you want if you want to do both I hi have colored plans for the permiss for the commission if you'd like to see them if they're large rather than small yeah did you read the blur yet they're the same plans that were submitted as part of the package okay okay so we F the notice of intent with the commission to raise a portion of the existing single family dwelling deck patio stairs walkway retaining wall remove a shed and gravel play area to construct an addition deck stairs Farmers porch patio pervious walkway repave the driveway rooftop and driveway infiltration trim trees cut one dying tree plantings associate grading and utilities within the 100 foot buff Zone and 200 foot rubber So the plan that I have in front of me right now is the existing conditions plan um this dwelling was built in 1953 we have several resource areas on or near the property um we have a perennial stream at Aon River the main annual high water is flagged in the field and it's shown on this plan as a light colored green line we have an Associated bordering vegetated Wetland as well that is shown on the plan as Flags Wetland line one through Wetland line8 and this is the darker Green Line we flip this over we have the existing shed we have an existing um porch type area behind the dwelling an existing deck an existing patio walkway and driveway what do knocking everything over okay so what would like to do is take off the rear uh structure of that's on the existing house construct a new addition with the basement as well as a deck that wraps around uh replace the patio so the patio within the existing layout of uh replace the patio in kind or within the existing footprint we' like to replace the walkway as well because that's in poor condition um we're proposing to repave the driveway because there's a low spot uh right in front of the garage so if we can repave the driveway and Pitch it um that would substantially improve the existing conditions of the site we are proposing an infiltration trench which will improve the driveway conditions we are proposing rooftop infiltration for the addition itself at the rear of the property this lot is completely within the inner riparian zone so we are proposing to improve the riverfront area by providing the plantings that are shown on the plan the 35 foot no structure if you follow my pen a portion of the house is within 35 foot no structure um again the dwelling was constructed in 1953 predates the Wetland protection act and all the local bylaw regulations so we did try and make an effort knowing that we are within the buffer zone we obviously need a waiver from 35 foot um we are within the inner R to essentially improve the existing conditions so we are proposing the plantings there is one tree that we would like to cut down and there's some trees on the property that we would like to trim um my clients had reached out to Northeast Northeast Tree Service yeah Northeast tree just to provide the commission some documentation of the existing trees pictures are provided in the notice of intent report um H Brook Consulting had flagged the BBW as well as the mean anual high water I went out I reviewed the flagging I agree with the flagging um they they provided a report as well that's within the notice of intent tonight I basically wanted to come in front of the commission and introduce the project I know we have a number of resource areas I know we're proposing work within the 35 foot I know the commission may want to do a site visit and take a tour and just see the site for themselves so at that I'll conclude my presentation and open it up to the commission with any questions so what we're going to have to do is to do that site visit that you talked about okay so I think we should first schedule that okay maybe there could be some PR questions if the Commissioners have any if not we should do the site visit and then have the full discussion so having said that um people could bring up their calendars what works for a site visit now typically we do site visits on the Monday of the week before meeting our next meeting is the 24th so if we fall 28th of August 28th which is like four plus four um so that would be the 26th does that work for you folks so I'm on vacation that doesn't work for me would it be possible to do it this coming Monday I'm not available this Monday or maybe another day next week um so Commissioners if you could chime in on days you can't make it my assumption is this would be in the morning that's when we do it typically so folk can then go to work uh so nine o'clock someday um make get work what day you think you for next week I could shuffle my schedule so I'm more than happy to accommodate the commission on the day and time and when are you around next week I am here tomorrow fair enough okay so you guys should really plan not to try to work it around me because you know until you're by the time I'm available you're on vacation so um I'll have to come and see it on my own so soose Wednesday the 21 1st and 9 is there anybody who can't make that Walter has his hand up do it Walter I'm totally unavailable next week 19th through 23rd just cancel vacation it wasn't vacation okay never mind uh that's unfortunate so well maybe if the rest of you meet with Morin yeah then you could meet with me and Walter after Morin's on vacation so we can get so this will be this will be a two sight visit visit so the 21st and nine for as many as can make it as possible and then Walter are you gone just for the week are you out just for the week I'm here I'm just booked um that's what I meant so unavailable for for that week so I'm back to we're back to the good for the I'm good for the 26th of course good so we'll do 9 o' Monday the 26 and Marin unfortunately you won't be there but you will have been there this okay that work yes thank you so Brian we have we have two visits scheduled one uh next Wednesday and then the following Monday correct only for those who can't make it on Wednesday yes it'll be there Wednesday okay so Tony will be there Wednesday Craig are you available I'm gonna make myself available yep and okay so so you'll be there on the Wednesday y so you've got four the 21st and then will'll be yeah then I'm wondering whether we could do the afternoon of the 26th Walter are you available in the afternoon on the 26th no no I'm I'll get there at 9:00 am so it's 9ine on the 26 okay uh having said that do any commission members have any preliminary questions or do you want to just wait for the site visit which I would recommend oh Chuck yeah I have a question I have a request that you and I know we've talked this afternoon uh so if you could pass in between the two meetings um the information that D asked for yes so that's all I so D provided comments I have to follow up with those obviously but um I can do that great thanks okay uh having said that I assume you guys are okay with a continuance yeah I just wanted to say Brian that um I wanted to thank Moren for her project description and for explaining each of the provisions that apply and how the project would or would not meet them it makes it a lot easier to set the stage and understand what's going on and to PR excuse me prepare for the site visit so so thank you for continuing to do that you're welcome Tony I again apologize for not seeing your raised hand I'm gonna blame Chuck somehow are the two times okay with the homeowners do do you guys plan on being that that's fine AB okay you don't have to be but if you're obviously more than welcome okay so then can I have a motion to continue this to the 28 I move to continue the hearing on 555 West Street to August 28th second one I second okay can we vote toins in favor Tony rakus in favor J in favor in favor Martha Moore in favor Rainbo in favor okay great thank you for your time all right so that leads us to 1312 Main Street is there anybody online bill Nolan is here and I think uh the applicants are here and um maybe had to switch phones is is uh we can use the raise hand function if someone else is here for this project he is Jonathan are you here I he was gonna try to make it in person yeah I think he had something also to do tonight so maybe uh I did see him zooming in but good before we get started do are you going to share the screen and and show us the information or do you want me too actually if you could that would be great okay and I think just the site plan would would probably be be fun just I was gonna say we'll go start off but if you want me to so Bill just uh give your name um for the record name and address for the record and sure my name is sorry go ahead uh my name is Bill Nolan from seavo Nolan Architects uh the office is at 130 Liberty Street in Danver Mass and uh I'm here representing Jonathan Tubman uh for a project at 13312 Main Street uh he's he's opening a um a school for guitar in uh what used to be a veterinarian clinic building and the project started out as a an interior only renovation um except for two things uh uh the well ex except for one thing uh we intended to replace an existing handicap ramp um that was both dilapitated and it didn't meet um the the handicap uh regulations uh so so our intent was to to tear that down and rebuild it in place uh and then uh what was uncovered uh during the demolition interior demolition we received the building permit to do the the work and the interior uh and while we were doing the work on the interior we uncovered um that the reason why the handicap ramp was illegal is because at some point um they enclosed The Landing portion of the uh the ramp and they didn't they didn't enclose it in in a in a in a good way um and once it was uncovered we we we couldn't leave it like that um so we ended up having to put in um some sonit uh peers uh to support the foundation uh on on what is uh the uh front vestule to the building uh once once we called for a framing inspection uh the uh the building department was made aware that we were putting in a foundation and and then notified the Conservation Commission and that's the reason why we're before you tonight uh so it's kind of a retroactive um uh request for an RDA uh so the two things that are in question are um you can see on the site plan there there's a gray rectangle uh on the front of the building that is an existing enclosed vestibule um that was found to be inadequate the foundation was found to be inadequate so we are now replacing and putting an adequate Foundation underneath it which consists of three uh 12in Sona tubes uh it will remain um roofed over and that hasn't changed so we haven't we haven't changed the impervious surface to the site at all then the only other thing that we're uh that we're doing uh is replacing the existing wood handicap ramp um and replacing it with a new um uh concrete ramp that will be to code it will be slightly longer than the existing wood ramp but it is over an existing concrete walkway so the so the impervious surface uh really doesn't change um so you'll have to forgive me too I'm an architect not a not a wetland scientist so I'm approaching it from the architectural aspect um but that in short is is the project and why we're why we're before you um thankfully uh uh Mr terrone uh helped us out and gave us some information um that was previously submitted for this property uh done by Jack suiv um a few years back so we were we were able to use the um the the wetlands that were flagged um and and forgive me I I I don't remember the uh exact year but I know it was was somewhat recent yeah um yeah the flags were there and uh you so you can see you know where we're at in terms of um the um the no build and no Disturbed and buffer zone uh with that I I'm happy to answer any questions if I can okay so before we get into the questions we did a site visit on Monday Walter do you want to run us through the uh your observations bill um this presentation is a little unusual compared to our normal one so bear with me sure because it looks like we're showing two properties to evaluate because on the on the plot plan you have the 1320 the new building as well for the vet um and and I guess there's a property line somewhere or is it one big property uh no uh uh the parking lot is shared so we we tried to include that so you could get the the sense on what was um you know what what's what's out there I believe it's two properties so there's 131 12 then there's a 25 foot wide uh easement between the other property and the other property is 1320 uh but they share a driveway and they share uh they share a parking lot they both owned by the same organization or same people I believe they are yep I'm not 100% sure on that though yeah because this gets confusing because you know we also had the requirements from the previous uh project as well so so bear with me at least um to to start with the situation uh we were there this past Monday and we noticed on the south side of property especially there was trash and grass clippings in the zone that we want to be protecting um there was bittersweet uh invasives growing on the side on the both the southwest and west side uh there was remaining erosion sock on the southwest side there were orange bands on some of the trees were they to be cut down is that reason why they're identified with orange Brands uh not to my knowledge uh so the my client doesn't own the property renting the building um we have no intentions of doing any tree removal or um or or really anything uh anything to do with the site again other than the um uh the the ramp everything else is interior to the building there was also um removing there was trash of old 4x4s on the southwest corner old uh concrete pillars as well then the on the uh on the West Side the 25 foot line has wood chips inside the 25- foot line which should we should have proper plantings for and then finally my concern as a former client there um anything to do with doctors or medicine or veterinarians I was wondering if there's any medical waste been tested for in the soils around there we did not test any soils for medical waste um I and I I can't speak to you know what was there prior to us taking over the building when we got the building it was empty uh and the veterinarian clinic had moved to the to the 1320 Lo uh yeah 1320 location so they they just moved across the parking lot I think we have a few conditions hereid getting that's premature we're not ready for anything like that yet I'm sorry I used the CW um there's concerns that I have uh about the Bittersweet erosion sock um oh there was also a pipe extending out of the building I was wondering if that was a sump pump because it drains into the wetlands uh yeah I saw that too I I it it appears to be a sun pump okay we should address that too then uh anyway those were my observations Bill okay anything you want to add I was going to ask about that pipe those were I guess um the building is already inside the 35 foot no structure zone so the new part you're building is that encroaching any further on the 35 foot or is it the same place that it was same exact place that it was we're not extending the footprint at all it's already it was fully enclosed the only thing is the it wasn't built properly um when it was done we're trying to make it uh we put a an adequate Foundation underneath it that's that's really all we did okay thank you that's all my questions I have one further question so there's a dumpster in the back parking lot where you're putting things you tear out of the building um is there anything that you thrown in that dump that we should be particularly aware of it's just typical um uh demolition work it's just you know a wallboard um scrap 2x4s and plywood um so no the answer is no okay so to follow up on some of Walter's points the 2x4s and everything you're talking about are outside the building in the back left corner as you face it there's a pile of I think it the 4x4 sorry what did I say 2x4 I was cutting that short um so the the the boards that would that would need to be cleaned up there's also these concrete uh footings they look like with a square uh opening in the middle which looked like they were footings for uh the 4x4s don't know that they look like them there were probably 10 or more of those between that corner and a few further down along the back of the building um that should be uh picked up as well sure um so Walter mentioned the yard waste out in the woods and what have you just to make that clear we would want to have that uh cleaned up along with some of the trash out there the trash wasn't the worst we've seen but as long as you're getting the yard waste you might as well get the debris while you're at it um is there any way you could determine if that pipe is in fact the sump pump because that was our assumption as well but I rather not assume i' rather know uh yes I can find that up for you and uh but uh if can we assume that it's a sun pump and and put your conditions to that if it's anything anything in it if it's anything that isn't I I don't know what it what else it could be so so yes we can assume that we can add it as a condition uh that you would let Chuck know what it is and if it's fact in fact not a some pump then we'd have to address that topic but our guess was that's what it was as well yeah okay um are there any other Tony Tony it's not your fault this time Chuck is it you saw me um I I have a question um typically in in order um to get approval from a Conservation Commission um you need the authorization of the property owner to do the work I'm assuming you have that and could provide a letter or some type of confirmation that um uh that the property owner is in fact aware of this work and and authorizing it yes okay and uh in your application uh you mention um three High Bush blueberry bushes to be planted um for mitigation plantings what what exactly needs to be mitigated I think that was a um I think that was a suggestion from from the town to to help move things along so and and uh we recommended we recommended High Bush blueberry because I know it's a native plant uh but I believe the note says or to the to the uh uh conservation commission's discretion so we're we're we're just looking to we're we're doing work in the um in the area and we're trying to soften the blow okay so it's really just a an improvement of the habitat because mitigation under the regs is a little bit of of a loaded word that that implies certain conditions um but it doesn't sound like that's the case because you're you're not expanding the footprint you're basically replacing everything in kind this is this is just a way to improve um the buffer zone MH okay is is is that correct Chuck um I saw it as mitigation because uh they are creating a permanent structure more permanent than the open slotted deck that was there that was you know had some age to it so this is more of a spot of spot of land that will never uh never be uh I guess uh restored so when we saw this little Al Cove I suggested doing some plantings in that area and it doesn't show on the plan but there's like a row of shrubs and then all of a sudden it it's like moss that dips down towards the Wetland Edge we thought that would be a good area to restore or to at least do some native planting in okay I understand thank you why we see it on the plan anything else Tony no that's it for me okay are there any other Commissioners who have questions comments doc do you have questions or comments uh only to say that I thought Walter's list although um the this is a rental Pro property I thought it was appropriate to have that list as conditions because renting it off of um property owner and the property is what the issue is and they have a dumpster there so it makes it almost you know pretty pretty easy to deal with all this issues so okay so having said that um are there any comments from the General Public no okay so this is an RDA um so what we would do is first um make a motion uh for the determination and then apply conditions haven't said that is there a motion I'll make a motion for negative determination for 1312 Main Street second I second oh well want to start us off but you just said the conditions come now yeah but that's what he means he wants you to give the list of conditions that you were had before sorry since I was number one in line to vote um trash removal on South Side grass clippings get rid of the erosion sock on the Southwest side have some kind of Riff Raff or something to slow down the drainage from the sum pump remove the 4x4s on the southwest side plus the concrete uh Foundation holders we didn't discuss this further but on the West Side the wood chips within the 25 ft line should be removed and have appropriate plantings so before we move on let's talk about what appropriate plantings are I mean I was thinking ground cover um I don't know if you any other thoughts I agree ground cover would be appropriate there okay Walter do you think ground cover is what we're looking for I believe so because I think aesthetically it would work and there are already some shrubs there's just gaps between the shrubs no I can clarify one more thing so the wood chips we're talking about are outside the concrete bounds that Mark the Wetland um buffer they're with they're within the wetlands buffer yes right so it's all there too close to the wetlands too far from the from the building those are the ones we're talk yes okay back to you author then the last thing I don't know how to do this but it it it bothered me to see those orange ropes or orange bands around those trees have them have those bands removed and just Ure the trees stay yeah I'm they on the property yeah I'm assuming the leftover from the last project maybe there was marking that do not cut ones uh they look fairly old so it's probably on that property line if you scr up yeah there's a retention Pond whatever just to the side of the yeah right about there yeah okay in that area make sure because there's another project in back okay yeah and the big healthy trees I'm sure we're just marking them as doing not make a mistake and take them uh can I ask a question about the um the silt sock sure should we leave should we leave that until our project's over and then remove it or do you want it removed immediately should shouldn't it stay up until we're done with our work I don't think you're doing anything where that protection where that uh erosion was left is going to matter that looks like it was left over from the previous project yeah I agree to the left is beyond the parking lot there's a curb there uh there's a cut in the curb but that goes into a little ition area I don't think that matters Marth you yeah I agree they're only working in front of the building and this is behind the rear parking lot so it's not having any effect at this point so you can pull it at your convenience okay fair enough do we need any erosion control in front where they're doing the building is that in the plan at all it doesn't show any erosion control um the only constraint might be building materials being in the way or what have you so what do you the storage of the building materials I don't know I just I brought up the question because we usually see erosion control for a project but this is a small enough project maybe it's okay I don't know it's more or less a repair right yeah M repl replacement on that Chuck well they they are doing digging for the tubes right they're already in Never mind already in okay sure they were hand dug yeah actually they were there was the only way you could do it it was underneath a building and it was kind of an emergency we needed to do it right away so or the or the building would be compromised so all all of this has been done and we're asking for all this after the fact the ramp has not been done ramp yeah the sonat tubes have been put in again because it would have would have been dangerous to leave the building in it in its state the construct is only all that's left yeah so there really won't be any digging of dirt to put that ramp in uh uh there may be a little bit of leveling uh but no no no no s no heavy equipment there gonna be no equipment over there of silk stock or something like that is not gonna miss this project up just it's low impact right okay so you think we're fine no no you could you could say it I mean we I mean there's a project out there the wetlands within the 25 ft you feel like having erosion okay so add that to a for a condition so we add that a condition that 25 ft along that edge I'm not to be worried about it because it is pretty pretty flat flat and very little sort of but it doesn't hurt doesn't hurt to do it okay are there any other conditions so yes to the Salt sock yes can I can I can I grab the one from the back and put put that one there because it's gonna be very quick yeah I don't know if it would be have enough Integrity if you'd be able to get it over there okay you can try yeah you can look at it all right fair enough Ian it's been there a number of years now think I'm good you want that around the perimeter of the ramp correct I'm assuming no just run it from the building straight out just so it's a between the work and the Wetland okay as close to the building as I can get it though well I'm sort of picturing right along that 25 foot line okay that's what I was thinking to yeah I I mean that's fine I mean you just want to make sure that they have enough room to work it's a close area and that looks like it might be 9 fet okay so it can be within the 25 foot Zone I think our goal is going to be to run it right on that 25 line I mean give or take a foot or so uh they'll have they'll have room to work around that and just remember when you're done that needs to come up yep with that dumpster to use so do two years from now another project we won't be asking for to be removed okay okay do you want to make motion now for the determination I just need to vote yeah I moved we seconded we had conditions now we vote fair enough tal in favor Tony Rus in favor in favor in favor Mo in favor rbo in favor 6 Z okay thank you thank you thank you have a good night thank you okay and that brings us to 11 Pine fail it's only 825 we're doing all right don't jinx us um so is there anybody else online or anything that you want included here my name is D just two of us okay so um if you could for the record introduce yourself the addressed my name is Dan Willis my wife and I own 11 Pine Bell Avenue latest I'll make a couple of inory comments that you may have some additional content to add my gu thank you um Noti in the time I will be brief and start this project so to begin just want to thank the commission thank you for the opportunity to be here today thank you for the service than the Tom reading um we are here today asking for a waiver my wife and I own 11 Pineville Avenue on the the back of that house there is a there is a porch the porch is does not have a proper Foundation we are looking to demolish that porch and put a two-story addition in its place I think it's worth noting that we are looking to stay within entirely within the existing footprint of that existing porch um we recognize that this structure this proposed structure in the existing footprint is still within the 35 foot um buffer zone we have um offered to mitigate by proposing some plantings the plantings are described in notice of intent um as I mentioned um Morin Harold from norment Services is here as my representative as well um either she or I am happy to answer any questions that the commission may have anything to add on as kind of gting comments um the entire lot is located within the 100 foot bu Zone just as a point of not oh the entire lot is located within the 100 foot Pap Zone and obviously in order for the project to proceed we would need a waiver from the 35 foot um every effort has been made to maintain the 25 foot um buffone and not encroach um because we are requesting a waiver we are proposing to improve the buffone by incorporating native plantings around the backyard area get rid of some of that lawn as well um can open it up to the commission with any questions okay we did a site visit there as well you want to take that unless Walter wants to do it good night's my night he um first I I'd like to say that it was a very pleasant visit because the homeowner came out it was very cordial to us and helped us and seemed like he really wanted to cooperate so thank you um nothing really major other than um there were some invasive bitter suets on Northwest side uh there's a trampoline there that's temporary uh so we'd like to have that eventually removed um there was some uh Bittersweet also on the east side uh bed that's there the only question uh I thought that needed some kind of work was the down spouts in the back uh where they drain to and how they're they they need to be repositioned just a little bit uh otherwise uh it's really in good shape thank you Walter can you explain what you mean by reposition the down spouts by a little bit if memory serves me correct one was draining on the edge of a bed there was onto a concrete uh flat surface it could be it's either going to need to be rebuilt or just tweaked a little bit um to drain into that bed would be very nice okay did you have anything you want to add yeah um the house is sided with asbest and the homeowner has assured us that they're going to use uh professionals to remove the asbestos but I would certainly want to make sure that it's uh we avoid getting it into the environment basically so properly removed um when they're tearing down that portion of the house um I'm a little concerned about your planting plan um it includes two red Maples one in each back corner of the property and the one closer to the garage looks like it's got plenty of sunlight to grow but the other one looks like it would be underneath existing really big Norway maple that's already there so um I'm just thinking that might not be a place where a red maple would Thrive because it's in the shade of all those Norway Maples we can certainly uh change the species or put a shrub there in L of the red maple um I think whatever the desire of the commission um and I'm als also a little curious um the garden beds that are outside that one foot existing masonary wall um seem to be pretty neglected um and you've put your plantings in the lawn is there a reason not to put them in the garden bed where right now there seems to be a place where um invasives are finding foothold so there are two guard beds right the one on next to the garage and then the one next to the neighboring property the one next to the garage happy to put them in there if that's if that's more palatable for the commission the one next to the other house we only own a portion of that land portion of that land is owned by the neighbor I spoke to her about it today she's fullly suppo with this project but she would rather have the the plantings go on this side of the wall entirely on my property not not in the bed where she ons part of that as as well so happy to do it on the garage side I don't have the ability to do it on the other side understood okay um and it doesn't really matter to me where you put them but I would love to see the invasives controlled that are in that little gap on the outside of the wall so if you want your yard to look symmetric and have the bushes inside on both sides I'm I'm fine with that that but it would be good to keep the Bittersweet from growing up the garage wall behind your beautiful new plantings absolutely to to the degree that everything is in my property absolutely agree to do it obviously I can't operate in someone else's property but to the degree my property I'll of course manage it yeah those were really my only comments that I took notes of I have one to add we talked about picking up the pieces of the cap to the wall that have fallen over into the uh the buffer and there's only one top of my head maybe another one on the left hand side but just to get it out of there okay um are there any questions besides these observations I'm looking for a hand so I can give tony a chance if he has it can I put this on the screen or I'm just looking at anything Greg has the plan been shown in a way that the U general public viewing yeah that's what I'm thinking of it would be good for the general public watching the YouTube later to have a chance to see that and not just the poster version so did Tony have his hand up or not no have his hand up just want to make sure give him a chance right did you give Chuck a chance oh yeah making sure iiss is all set got questions comments uh sure yeah I uh I don't see any erosion control in this on this plan and I was wondering if you were so I don't know if you were going to add erosion control am I missing it or do you think that that wall that we were just talking about is sufficient to so you are missing that okay so it's on the new plan yeah it's on the plan that I passed out it's a m um it's also in the not 7 tent is a a 12inch diameter mul so back by Sil fencing will be installed along the limit of work line to protect resources during construction I think is that not being an expert is that what we is that what we're talking about it's it's labeled along the masonary wall as DC erosion control barrier can can you see it's the dash line just between the PL and I see the dash line yeah and it's labeled ECB okay oh the ECB is hiding in between the shrubs it's hiding yes yes okay but but it is on the plan and the construction entrance is it will be the drive driveway driveway the other side of the house it's only 9.6 feet M so little bit on the tight side and you have a catch Basin across the street do you think that needs to be addressed or do you have elevation on I think it's unless the commission feels differently majority of the work is behind the house I'm sure you'll have a dumpster on site once he gets the approvals to tear the forch down and then to do the construction we could certainly put a silt sack in problem with Sil sacks is if you get heavy rain events then it causes flooding in the roadway so that's my only concern regarding that but if the commission finds that that's appropriate we can certainly do that this is my I will just say you should just monitor it we would probably put a condition to sweep the street just at the end of each day and if it becomes a problem silk sack problem um that brought up a couple of questions if you don't mind um where are you going to put the dumpster and where are you going to stockpile debris or soil that you're digging up and also stockpile materials that you're going to be building with on the first question it'll be in the driveway I think you noticed that when you were over um Miss Moore you saw that we have a basketball hoop at the end so we don't actually pull the cars in all the way so there's plenty of room there to put the um to put the dumpster on the second question I don't think I have an answer to that um but if we we can proceed in any way that the commission is so if you offer some conditions on that we can accommodate so my question in particular has to do with this licensed professional you're going to have to do the asbestos removal that's not going to go into General the general dumpster right they're going to handle that especially whisk it offsite bag it up Etc they have to enclose the whole house it's a so so none of that's going to go in the dumpster and be sitting there right for a minute even right and we are using a local certified Asus removal company on that so that the we have the agreement is all ready to go if if we're able to proce we already have the liced contractor chck is there any special conditions that we apply when there's aprus involved yeah I didn't uh have the full understanding of that are they removing the shingles from the entire house no just from the one back area yes that is it and do they have enough room to operate within the driveway and or are they going to bring so much equipment that things are going to be moved like the erosion control and and is going to be more disturbance than we think but it or is it a small operation and they're going to I don't know take a side at a time but but encapsulate it so it's they're hard question to be answer I'm not an expert what I can say is this um this will all be done as a first step so there'll be no other construction equipment there when this is done be done just initially right and I brought in a number of providers to give me esence on this no one raised concern about not having enough space to be able to do this so that hopefully those answers are helpful to answering your question yeah I mean it seems like a pretty small area that they're that they're taking care of and to and to be honest with you this happens a lot in reading and I haven't heard any big problems come up so I don't think it's as uh such a big operation as I'm I'm thinking in my heads is actually quite small yeah so I would think not being an expert in APR at all is that when they're taking it off I would assume they would take a little of a bit of a margin so when they're putting the new material on there's not interaction with where the asbestos is you know the same idea is when remove skin cancer they clear a margin same same idea yeah I don't know if that's true or not but I think it's worth asking I will ask F I think it was freshing my head um thought so so back to the digging the current porch is on sonit tubes the new addition is going to be on a foundation so you're going to be digging down to put in the foundation will you be using the soil you have dug to refill the um back fill around the foundation or will you end up with excess soil that you have to cart away yes so this some of the soils will be reused I do think we would have to take some soil off site I think we'll have extra so that'll be taken off site okay um so I think the soil that you're stockpiling to reuse later I'd like to see maybe covered with a tarp and erosion control around your pile of soil so it's not washing across the backyard um and you know it looks like your most convenient place to put it might be within the 25 foot Zone but if it could be on the driveway that would be better in terms of erosion and clean up um but just making sure that it's protected if there's a heavy rain before it gets back filled in that's not a problem it won't take too long for them to pull the foundation to have the foundation set and that condition um and then you know again you don't have a whole lot of space to work with for stockpiling your building materials so um you know one option is a little bit of it could go in the garage maybe not so much but otherwise you know outside the 35 foot Zone would be better okay we can keep it towards the other end of the driveway as as far out of that zone as we can does that make sense to you guys Chuck you think that all makes sense yeah I do I mean with with erosion and all that it's just where are they stockpiling it and how you want it to be handled because I can ask for more erosion control but seems like such a quick project by the time I asked for them to move it if that pile of dirt it would be gone anyway right you should give a couple days for things to be moved so and the good news is the lot is very flat so in terms of erosion I'm not too concerned because it is so flat it's not on and there's a wall at the end right you're right you're right so um yeah I just you know whatever seems to work to make sure that we don't end up with the you know because I'm not just concerned about the river the intermittent Brook I'm also Al concerned about that whole grassy area if the soil all fills out across there so you know keeping it controlled because you've put your erosion control barrier at the base of the wall um which kind of makes that whole 25 foot Zone suspect a subject to possible eroding into it so that's not a problem we can put a to over the stock pile soil a temporary that's what I'm thinking no problem are you allowing them to use that area that says grass area on the screen in this inside the 25 foot area or do you want a limit of work there I mean it is a pretty tight site it is a tight sight so I I I you know if they're digging a foundation hole to put that house in where else are they going to put the dirt other than in that grass area I agree it it's just something that we before the certificate of compliance was given we'd want to see that restored yeah okay that makes sense now I'm I I would prefer the stockpile to be outside the 35 foot as close to the 100 foot line as possible but I just don't see that works on this site I I don't see any place else you could put it you're not going to be carrying your dirt out to the front lawn you know that doesn't make any sense okay so we probably beat that rosion question today yeah okay fine I'm done are there any other questions for any commission members looking for a hand up there I'm not seeing any duck anything more from you no I don't suppose there anybody in the general public out there who has a hand raised yeah so I don't know who's out there I just I recognize a few of these people but yeah it's just another project but you could just say hey uh if anyone wants to say anything just go to the reaction buttons and use a rayan function and uh so what Chuck just said if you have something you want to say reaction button raise hand function seeing none okay uh then oh wait wait we got one Debbie coming up Debbie if you could um start by mute yourself and introduce yourself and your address please hold on a second let me catch to where she's at okay here we sorry about that took me a minute to find you okay should be able to work um the screen okay I think you just allowed me to unmute yeah I was trying a few times um this is Debbie rero at 15 Pineville La um next door to number 11 and um I uh was going to be there in person but I'm here on the zoom and just wanted to say that the um project has my full support and anything I can do to help with it I would be happy to all right Debbie thank you okay um thanks a lot anybody else out there I would think not having said that this noi so first we need a motion to close I move to close the hearing on 11 pinale second tet in favor Tony rakus in favor in favor in favor more in favor I'm in favor okay so we have closed now we need a motion to conditions um conditions trampoline is uh semi semi uh there's no foundation on we talked about removing it when the kids age out translation on issue okay is going to be removed within the boundaries of the yard down spots are going to be relocated and um into the garden bed I have invasive removal a second time so it might have been same one same one and then I had a note about uh when you're digging the foundation if you have to dewater can you let the Conservation Commission know and you can set that up so we're not just dewater ing without with sediment into any resource areas okay and then whatever the rest of them are I didn't write down so okay so we have the removal of uh the cap on the wall where it's falling over into the Wetland buffer move the cement cap yeah the the cap on top of the wall in some places at least one place is falling off and into the Wetland buffer so part removed I thought it would be I just wanted to write it down um did we need to say anything about the asbestos is that also okay and we did talk about the red maple proposed for the back corner where I was thinking that really is too shady and overhung with other trees to have another full red maple there so so I would suggest that maybe Meen if you to think about that and where to place it instead and then just let Chuck know okay so maybe shift the location and then put a shrub there and yeah you basically just mitigate the fact that it's in the shade go to some place where it'll grow better I don't know that there's really room for a second red maple I'm thinking replace it with a shrub you to do that as well I mean I I I prefer M Maples but I just don't think it's so just if you can address that and give the results to Chuck okay um and we'll assume that it's an approvable chairman on the plan it does know um plans that Mr Willis has suggested but also says that if these plans AR available go from the Native PL list from the town if that's please just be sure they're real Natives and not the cult thank you all right sounds like we have the list yeah now we can vote uh vote need a motion on a vote to issue for 11 B bille I move to issue the issuing yeah we moving to issue the order of conditions for 11 fine Bill thank you I move to issue the order of conditions for 11 P J second toins in favor Tony rakus in favor J in favor Breo in favor Marth Moore in favor R in favor thank you I can say two things one I enjoyed our visit as well when he came so thank you very much at it it was really pleasant visit and second my wife is here I imagine she wants to object so maybe if we want to give her a chance to just a little levity end of the night than thank you so much thank you for coming sorry my children are at home so I needed to have it all be Qui before I can sort of flip out and you went so fast you got here too late okay app thank you I'm suggest we just go right toell and um Mr s back they've been waiting and then we can jump back to uh old and new business so who do you want to go to uh Dave Cowell and Mr stal from uh like 52 Lanas 52 gocha okay so we're gonna go a little bit out of order and we're going to take the certificate of compliance for 52 Lanas can you folks hear us hello hello oh can you hear me okay this is David Cowell with Hancock Associates how are you we are fine thank you good hi Chuck hi members of the commission um I I do have Mr um shelach with me uh here tonight in attendance um really we were just here tonight to to sit in on on how this is progressing um forgive me I cayn white Wetland scientist with Hancock Associates has been um guiding this and been in attendance um she's away on vacation this week um it sounded like there was a a site walk this uh past Monday in that the the replacement of the boxwoods and the little blue stem U had checked out and that the remaining order of businesses the the CH location of a handful of trees to thin the restoration area um with intent to do that um probably a month from now um I'd say by mid September uh September 15th you're probably at a time that um is suitable for for transplantation um but with that I'm I'm really here to listen in uh to the commission members and and see if we're in agreement okay uh you're correct we did have a site visit marthew you want to walk us through it um yeah we we found that the plants inside the fence looked healthy and the boxwoods had been replaced with the uh inkberry and the grasses Etc um we then also just checked outside in the back um where the wild flowers are thriving um and talked with the owner about um how to spread those trees out into the front section but also I prowled around and tried to find all the shrubs that were in that area and at least shrub had been nibbled down to just Nubs um but I found um a good six or so healthy shrubs um so I didn't have a plan with me that showed how many were supposed to be out there among the trees okay so at least some of them are looking really good I just don't know whether all of the shrubs that were planted have survived at least one has not um so so that's we're we're making Pro ress and the uh blackeyed Susans were thriving yeah so I I I did want to ask about that again with um with with these planting uh we'll we'll Monitor and maintain them um it sounded like the the the blacke Susan were probably in a native seed mix that was applied it sounds like they're flourishing but but based on the height of some of these shrubs they might be um shading them um the you know Mr shinbach mentioned that perhaps he can he can maybe do a little weed whacking just around the the shrubs to afford the more Daylight um with these perennial species they'll come back um you know NE next season as well but uh just wondering if that's if that's um was mentioned we did have that conversation with them and we emphasized that he could clear a little bit around it to give us some room to grow not a big circumference by any means just a little bit few feet yeah yeah just just to provide some open it to some daylight but yeah just a one foot out from the shr two feet out you don't want Giant Circles of Bear right right right just just just so you're not hitting the shrub with the weed whacker but to to go as circumference around it just to lighten it up is that what you think sh yeah that's that's fine yeah okay and yeah and we can we can take a look at the um um uh the state of the shrubs too if if they're um what we would what I would suggest is that if they're going to move trees a month from now that we notify the commission um just in advance of that being performed and um I'd be happy to go out there and look at the State of Affairs to see if uh you know to what degree there's been any mortality um if it's significant enough that that we think he needs to buy another couple of shrubs as Replacements um yeah and just to to look at the state there and one one last point when when Martha was prowling around as she put it did find um some invasives and she took a sample off and gave it to the homeowner so he would know what he's looking for if he went in to clear it out oh great great were were they Woody speces or what what were you seeing Martha there was there were some other Vines also growing on some of the trees at the back but The Bitter Sweet was the one I was concerned about the other might be great finds but so you know just um it's at the back of this lovely healthy area but I'd hate to see um the Bittersweet thriving back there where nobody's noticing it so that's why I did a little education there great and and and and that's a fair request as well any anytime with restoration condition in order of conditions you know prior to the the certificate of compliance that we're working our way towards um yeah there's there's maintenance and uh typically invasive species management um so if there is some some bittersweet in there you know I would ask my my client here tonight that he you know if he has contractors mve the trees that at that time they would just cut and thin uh the existent um bitter Suite that's out there um that it would just be contained for offsite disposal or incineration um I don't know that it's at the degree that you think it needs herbicidal treatments um but I think we could certainly do a good job of Y just then then that's a few hours of Labor that I don't think is um you know just cleaning up loose ends I don't I don't think it's a major task yeah okay so then in summary I would say the progress looks good the planting is inside the fence look both health healthy and C y we know the trees haven't been moved yet obviously that's supposed to be um so we can't uh do anything final until the trees been moved and had some time to show survivability right right no that's understood and we we didn't anticipate that we close tonight that that we have a um um I was going to say Baseline but Milestone deliverable a month from now um in replacement of the trees I think that you know just in in talking with my client he just wanted um reassurances that he he has his to-do list in front of him um with some transparency just in discussion tonight such that he's positioned to to request the certificate upon moving the trees and um you know executing these these to-do list tasks and I actually don't know if it's already a request but I would request when you move the trees if you let tuck know so we could check out the situation yep yep yeah that's why I I I I mentioned that um once he has a a contractor lined up that we notify you guys no less than a week in advance of having the contractor out there um just for transparency and if you guys want to come and uh visit at that time um to to make sure we've you know we have a a finite quantity of trees that um you guys are happy with yep sounds good want to emphasize the um the Bittersweet would be mechanical only and not chemical because you'd need to come before the commission for a permit to do any chemical treatment because it's next to the Wetland absolutely that's why I asked yep so yeah it it it'll be mechanical hand removal only no use of herbicides um if if there's ever commercial use of herbicides that needs to be done by a licensed herbicide applicator and I I normally condition that a licensed heresite app that's why I was asking I was I was hoping that you guys would be content with mechanical removal only because it's it does become labor intensive and expensive um once you get into herbici treatments okay so we can probably let you go then if let there's any other points just um I think Brian mentioned survivability so the certificate of compliance wouldn't be issued as soon as you move the trees we'd probably come back again in a year to make sure they survived so you know it's we're we're making progress in the right direction not going to be signing it off in in September all right further out okay let me ask um I I have Bob with me in attendance tonight um I don't know if he' he'd like to speak either um I understand that that with any restoration that normally you you have one to two years of monitoring to ensure survivability of um species before issuance of a certif of compliance um I don't know if uh let me ask Bob here tonight if there's because a lot of times with the certificate compliance I don't know if there's plans for a purchase and sale of the property or or something that's tied to it that might encumber a year out in which case I may there's been opportunities for me and other commissions to say if he puts puts down some money in in like a sorate or a bond um that he would get the S of compliance and a year later upon ex you know inspection of the trees that they all surviving that he would he would get his money back or put a contingency so Bobb are you in attendance tonight do do you yes I am yes yeah so and I'm just on your behalf just just uh wondering about a one-year time period it as I was just saying it is typical of monitoring and restoration um but in this circumstance uh you know we're trying to correct a um a Nuance in our our restoration area by thinning some of these yeah I have no issues I I think we can you know we'll move the the all the plants and the trees in uh September and you know survivability is an issue when we'll make sure it's all set okay come back spring or something or yeah should be okay if you have no sense of urgency I didn't know if you had a purchase and sale agreement on the house you guys are residing there for a while so what you you would move the trees in September and maybe by mid summer next year we'd go out next growing season and and just make sure that they're still um flourishing and and you know look viable that that they're taking and haven't died from the stress of transplantation right that's no problem oh okay then all right yep then sorry I I know sometimes I have clients that are are pressed under purchase and sale so that sounds that sounds a minable yeah so Bob then as a last word you leave that extra hose out there as you can water them once you you move them uh I just watered them today that's that's why we're we're looking at mid-september instead of August nor normally planting in the peak summer months um under the stress of being transplanted um It's usually the driest months of the year I think we're good yeah yeah yeah September will be good thank you for coming in all right thank you I appreciate uh your time tonight thanks guys all right be well everyone bye um we're down to uh just us okay so we might as well go to the next COC 18 wher there's a second site visit at 18 whia Brian and Matha went and Walter and Walter yeah heuck alter is this your night I a site visit report at my age there is no Knights okay so do you want to fill us in on our visit yeah actually there wasn't all that much to be negative about shall we say um there was a weird plastic uh box which kind of looked like some kind of trap in the back um and then near the fence at the back of the property they have uh wood chips and not ground cover and I know Martha counted nine shrubs and there was one uh Vine growing through one of the shrubs which was an Arrowwood those are the three notes that I have so so with those uh would you consider a certificate of compliance what's the recommendation on this um those need to be corrected or is it is the the previous conversation involved making some gaps in the wires that they had put behind the fence and um we didn't specify how many gaps and so they did make a couple of gaps like four places where there's a width where animals could go under and clearly have been using that so um there is still a lot of that wire mesh but there are places where animals are clearly going through and that was one of the concerns that had come up so that's been addressed do you think that's enough well so let's go over doesn't sound like it's going to be too permanent so let's go over what what the other issues were so there's an issue on replanting some of the shrubs that's been done the replanting are look looking good but there is that one find going through one of the shrubs that you mentioned the down spout was an issue that has been addressed there's now a bed of rocks with a down spout comes down so it won't go onto the lawn for erosion the grass that was sparse on the right hand side of the house when you first go through the great the gate uh that is progressing it has filled in a fair amount uh there's still more to go but that's going in the right direction um so as far as the openings in the mesh um I'm really not sure what we expected so there are a number of openings small animals could go through um they had the concern about their dog getting out I've not seen the dog I don't know if they think these things are big enough for Critters but not big enough for their dog so at least to the letter of the request they have added openings gaps in the mesh underneath the fence so are they three and a half to four inches high yeah Okay and like a foot long so on an eight foot panel you might have a one foot Gap no that that's fine that's enough okay just noted in the certificate of compliance that have to remain in perpetuity yeah that's a good point yeah um and the older grass that was tall has now been mowed so it kind of match is the backyard right so the erosion control was pulled up it's not filled in where it it's pulled up didn't expect that and the tree that was struggling in the back left of the property is still there I don't think we required it to come down was more of a warning that the tree is not in good shape you may want to do something about it but there's still a lot of uh empty branches as you get towards the top of it so I guess the ground cover is really the issue we're still waiting for yeah I would you know instead of having shrubs with wood chip mulch underneath them weren't we looking for a trees shrubs ground cover thing and we've got the trees shrubs but not the ground cover yeah um I'm looking for some native herbaceous on the backhand right we did see evidence of some wild flowers of well wild wild flower seed having been thrown in there was some plants to Walter and I saw their original visit but certainly it's not extensive so I would still call it Miss and and I'm thinking not five four foot high blackeyed Susans but something six inches or a foot high um for ground cover you know the the the thriving wild flowers of the previous site visit is not really what we're looking for here I thought they were amazing they were amazing but you know Canada May Flowers ferns um that kind of thing short they would have to they'd have to be more shade appropriate than those sunflowers yeah daisies yeah yeah okay so that's that's not passing so we should move on I get those notes it's progress but not passing so that I believe is all our hearings back up to number back up to old new business violation notices um nothing new and nothing's been removed okay Chuck have you had time to send something to 445 Pearl Street yet no I haven't that's a good point so someone's have to I don't know why they're getting such a yes I'm sorry I'm laughing because you said the same thing to me at the asking me okay she's very consistent well oh Brian he just texts me all day long just get it on his list it was a busy day um that is where we left it right was it was on your plate to send that letter I'll get that out there okay then discussion items we covered the first two the CCS the next one is the conservation meeting that we had um which one of you two fine people wants to run through how it went I'm gonna do it so fast it's not even G to matter fair enough we had a great meeting seems like Mike Haniford and and uh Mike kman stuck around and um we listed a bunch of stuff we're able to get some of our concerns off the list like the um de trash truck at um lobs pound I kept on putting ruts um so Chris called the Chris Co he's a director of uh the DBW called called the company and they stopped doing that it looks looks 100% better we always go into these projects with uh or these meetings with a list of things that we'd like to get done or like to talk about and so we just address those things and they say they'll look into it or they'll they talk about it and they tell us why they can't do it or or that they'll put it on their list so it's a pretty productive meeting think we talked about some erosion at um lot five and Mike's going to look at that and suggest maybe putting a tree down to prevent erosion why a tree why a piece of a tree because it looks natural and it'll decompose in that area um other than that I think that it was just a typical DPW meeting so if you want to add anything that I missed we talked about you guys are going to meet out at the site to talk about the stairs from the parking lot up the back hill yeah I don't think we can make that meeting I have to make it another another day but uh we will meet before our our next conservation meeting I'll be able to update you everyone's asking about those stairs I was at the trails committee Town Force committee last night and they mentioned stairs too so but the the best way to handle that is to because I've worked with Jeff for 11 years and you just tell him what you want and he's really good at like figuring it out I just want to go there to make sure they understand my concerns are and see if I noted anything that they're not thinking about and then I'm just going to leave it to Jeff that's that's my thought sounds good okay then moving on Bill is approved you want to talk about Mass autobom yeah so I just need uh I want to pay that um Mass Autobon ecological study that we did for Bare Meadow the bills in it's $7,500 we have the draft plan Bill geen Tanner Ean Tanner geen Tanner uh said he would uh review the final uh the final uh revisions that Tony and and Walter made and then put them in there but um he so I haven't got those back yet so um but I'd like to pay him I mean that was kind of the the agreement we made he didn't even you know he didn't say anything about it but he did say that he would like to get the the bill so it's 7,500 and if I could get a motion and approval from the commission we need a motion to authorize Chuck to pay the bill to mass Autobon out of the Opera funds it's $7,500 the funds all right so moved second okay tal in favor Tony R lockas in favor in in favor more in favor rbo in favor okay anything you want to bring up for the administra i' like to ask uh the Conservation Commission if they have time to show up at the select board meeting in support of the Town Force committee we're going to go to the um 910 so September 10th uh select board meeting and they're going to talk about why they think it's appropriate to have just three dogs on leash at the Town Forest and so um is that a requested appearance is that is that why they're gonna have that conversation no they want to they wna um so they're going through the motions of getting on to town meeting and you have to have a vote from the select board at least post that vote you know it might be an unanimous it might be whatever but that needs to be known so they'll talk about it and I don't know if the select Bo will vote that night but they will at some point and um the bylaw committee also has to vote and then it goes to town meeting so this is just a step they have to take but um you know it's that's what I wanted to mention if someone has if you have time because I think there's going to be a lot of you know dog walkers and other people there and they they're not trying to eliminate dogs they're just trying to control the situation and there's a lot of people out there we heard a funny story at the Town Forest meeting last night where one of the Town Force members was in there putting in signs um and uh him and his son two dogs like running around them for a while and they finished doing what their work was and they started walking out and then Here Comes some person uh with several leashes around their neck so they kind of knew there was a lot of dogs they had two two or three dogs with them and uh they said hey are you looking for dogs and they're like yeah we we've lost a couple and uh we're trying to find them so yeah so that would have made the number around five or six dogs for one person and that's one things that can happen so uh you know they're asking for dogs to be on leash and um I'm asking for the commission if they have time to either show up or zoom in to the select board meeting and just have it there if more than four show up I'll have to post it we're even close to that and then uh just as a meeting so let me ask that do we think that we'll be able to make it or enough people that think they can make it that we have to worry about posting it I'll plan to be there was right what day is that September 10 it's a Tuesday what time 7 o'cl right well anytime after 7 o' I mean they usually do public open for at that time meeting start to set put that I would try it Tuesday I just want to know if you have to worry about posting yeah so maybe I'll send out an email just seeing who's who's available for that night and it's okay if you you can't make it I mean I think if some people make it that's that's as good and if the chair makes it I mean not to take any pressure off anyone else that's even better one question I mean maybe it's a stupid question but um isn't the town just have a leash in general it's true except in the forest you're allowed to be on voice control off leash so when Brian commented that these dogs were clearly not in voice control of the owner since they couldn't find the dogs um and that's another condition is that they're under voice control and it it was a while it was a while it was 15 20 minutes you know yeah so they were oops that's a a new piece of information for me they said I didn't know that there was any spot that you could have Unleashed so maybe I'll bring my dog down but she'll run away so I won't do that actually yeah but it's still a nice place to bring a dog on leash yes I agreed yes okay so if you can't make it that'd be great Chuck will send out an so just a note for Walter um at the next town Forest meeting I secured funding for the town uh new entrance to the the town lot five and so I'm mocking up a sign not a kios because those are pretty standard but I'm assigned for the U Town Forest commit to vote on the language so I don't I don't know how many options there are Reading Town Forest I mean so is it going to be like the red and black Motif there just like we're doing here like em Tera and all that I talked to Bill and I asked to put on the agenda so I'll send that to you so you're aware of it too so who has to approve that besides the Town Forest committee does Trails have any input on that no okay it's really it's um I mean it's the Town Forest entrance I mean they're GNA have to say we we like the language you know okay as far as font goes and spacing and colors I mean I think that's all we want a standard high visibility sign just like we've been doing at Mata want to look like we're walking of the same company so that's it okay uh minutes for approval there are three listed but there's two available to approve just the worst that so only 710 and 724 have been done and sent out um and I do apologize I had uh made spelling errors in a couple of people's name um one is Morin heral I spelled her last name wrong you got that to me so okay um and then there was another presenter I got his name wrong in the first one and fixed it in the second one I'll look for that yeah H can't remember who he was something ends in ski maybe Kaminsky Kaminsky yeah I spelled Kaminsky wrong one for um and just a note for the people who are possibly doing minutes in the future we got advised by Town Council that there were a couple of places where we made errors in how we were running minutes um we need to make a note of which people are zooming in and put in the minutes that they are remote um at least members of the commission I don't think I made a different differentiation of remote from the presenters whether they were remote or present but at least I know that the Commissioners who are remote we need to say that we need to also list the roll call vote by name not just the vote again if you follow the these that format you'll get those changes up from the 720 before I didn't do a very good job on the 710 I hadn't been told those things yet but the 725 following the correct format I would actually say you're fired but we can't afford that um do you remember if there was something else that we were told we have to change on our minutes oh just detail we just keep working on just no it was no she mentioned one and she said I noticed that the discussion was you know 25 minutes long but there was only two sentences she made a comment about that but I've I've always heard even from Gan Delio's the's assistant Town manager who was you know pretty good great assistant Town manager she said just you know put the details in you can limit the discussion items down to just a few a few sentences so maybe that's what happened there the details of who voted what the outcome was what the conditions were yeah those are kind of details that matter more I will say on that discussion I wrote that one I did cut it really short because it was such a long uh conversation and I knew the results would going to be in the changes that went to mass auto okay all right so uh any comments on either of those two minutes that we can approve besides what Martha R talk actually didn't get a chance to read it I'm sorry sorry um did four of you these treat them I read them I read them got halfway through yeah they're long they're long how about you Walter did you get a chance to look at those two did not no I think we better wait and vote next time yeah okay we'll have so bring it up it next time V on next time to get mine done if you can we really need to try and stay caught up me when we first when I first got in the commission there had been a lag and some of them were fairly old we don't want to be in that position and just to I I need to send it to you CH before I don't send it out to everyone right I send this to you yeah it would be really great if you're sending uh Corrections in if you if there if there's a lot you know use uh track changes yeah but the minutes that you're writing now yeah you send your minutes oh yeah that's what I meant yes is that what you meant oh yeah just send send you the draft to and then Chuck sends them out to us with the next agenda thing GRE if you could practice your penship you volunteer for next meeting yes I'm still learning so I I want to provide the best possible uh notes that I can so want to learn a little bit more about how you guys operate fair enough as long as you know the day is covering yeah and then what you guys just mentioned about shortening it up you know that obviously uh that helps also don't feel like this is typical we just we've had minutes secretary before and we just don't have one now and I know it's in the works so it's not a forever um burden for our that's a good point yeah I might need to go back to the video I lost a few of my notes to the iPad getting too heated up got to go back to thankfully we have the recording I mean thanks to incredible man it's a relatively short meeting so okay on on that note is there anything else before we J uh I just want to let you know that at the next meeting we will be going into executive session talk about 87 Walkers B Drive um Tony you still here Tony uh there any there's an option to have Town Council with us in executive session I didn't think that was needed I mean I can see them being needed with the select board but I didn't want to get into executive session and someone to say oh we better have Town Council here so we could ask this question so I'm only asking the commission is uh do you think there's any need Tony you would probably the best to answer that question because I I relied on you a little bit or a lot to uh help me review what came in so the question is whether we should invite Town Council yes so any legal questions that you can come up what do you think there are any legal questions that you need based on what you know about this it's not I don't want discuss the project I'm just that's only you think there's a need for Town Council has something transpired which is prompting this executive session or this is just to um this is just to tell everyone about it and we can talk freely about our review of it and then at the end of it they'll vote in favor or you know whatever against it uh which is the plan that was presented which is the plan that you saw saw okay so this doesn't involve any any appeals no this doesn't no new filings just to go over the information that's been provided um over the past few weeks yeah and and of course I have to run this past I already asked assistant Town manager Matt would probably have to know too and then give his approval does yeah there's no I that's exactly what I was thinking there wasn't too much process for a lawyer to kind of slog through it's it's all been engineering related from what I've seen yeah okay I I think I understand so that's all I have so having said that can I have a motion to adjourn I moved to adjourn at 9:26 all right thanks anybody want to Second it I second can we vote 9:26 all yeah I all right Tony thanks Tony now Walter by Walter good night everybody good night good night RCV e e e e e e e e e for