e e e e recording in progress e e e not Walter can you hear us author yes so member present I think is what just oh he probably didn't hear any of that yes um doing the roll call doing the roll call so chime in please Walter talbat member present Bill Bill mccans member present I didn't hear the pre-speech either for whatever it's worth okay good to know thank you um Tony Tony rakis member present chro chro ster member pres cig celo member present Martha Martha Moore Vice chair present Ryan B chair present all right and I will U review the agenda at relatively short agenda tonight um we have uh three hearings listed although one will be continued uh these are the first one is wood and Cemetery uh it's a notice intent about uh doing some uh not weed removal then we have 167 Belmont Street continuation from a previous meeting and this is a RDA then we go to Cedar Swamp conversations which is the one that will be continued and that's it for hearings then we're on to uh things such as says violation notices uh we have a few certificates of compliance to consider uh any bills to be approved an update on conservation DPW coordination meeting uh any administrative report and then some minutes we have to approve so having said that why don't we jump right into a discussion on the woodend cemetery is there anybody here um yeah ran I'm willing to do the minutes for this meeting thank you for offering that you're welcome ready yeah Mike could you just introduce yourself for the record yeah I'm Mike kesman I am the assistant director of Public Works here with the town red want to tell us a bit about the project you should I have a little write up here I guess I'll just read that uh my name is Michael kesman assistant director of the reading DPW requesting approval for this project on behalf of the town of reading Cemetery division you see the attached nli subject being removal and chemical treatment of an isolated area of not weed at the woodend cemetery the area is approximately 1,000 square feet and is located approximately 65 ft from the Wetland as determined by conservation administrator Chuck terone observed by me on June 11th 20124 not weed is mostly growing out of the stone wall but is spreading into the lawn which is area of new Grave plots and this is an isolated area of growth the goal is to treat and control this isolated area before it has a chance to spread further work is proposed in the area identified on the map dated 7924 noted as treatment area that's up on the screen scope of work proposed includes cutting the knotweed approximately 12 inches off the ground and then dripping an aquatically formulated gate into the hollow stem of the plant ideally the town would like to see this completed this year during the late summer and early fall fall months which is the ideal treatment window for this type of application as advised by Essex horiculture I have engaged Essex horiculture to prepare a scope of work and quote associated with this work purchase order has been approved based off this quote uh hence approval by the Conservation Commission is the final step required uh to move forward if approved the reading DPW will act swiftly to see the work completed during the ideal treatment window under this proposal Essex horiculture will also remove the knotweed from town property and properly dispose of all such material and I would like to thank you for your time and respectfully request the approval of this proposal thank you and before we get to questions I realized that I was remiss and not reading our opening blurb for this project so let me go back and do that uh it's open public hearing on notes of intent filed by assistant DPW director Michael kesman presuming to mage Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act Andor the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant is proposed in general maintenance activity to chemically remove not weed using life facet with a cut and drip method at wooden Cemetery all of the work is within the buffer zone to border vegetated Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading Mass 867 on the conservation division page under the project by year assess map 52 lot 7778 sorry if it didn't okay so now any commission members have any questions um and ideally we would start with you Walter I I can't see you um do you have any questions Walther excuse me Brian start with a summary of the site visit yeah there were several four of us that went out there Monday um I I'm not familiar with the procedure other than I hear the word Roundup and I get a little bit worried but uh these people are professional the only concern I would have is the supervision of so that people aren't cutting shortcuts okay Don you were on a site visit do you want to add anything to that yeah um I'll add that there were in fact four of us who who went uh we saw the stand of not weed in the northwest corner of the cemetery um just behind the knotweed is it's built on the edge of it occurs at the edge of a of a built retaining wall um with made with giant Stones it's about an eight at least 8 to 10 foot drop um uh to the to the land behind it um where it's relatively flat goes about 15 or 20 feet what appears to be a walking trail uh and then the Wetland must be or beyond that I about 65 feet from the edge of the naweed is the Wetland okay um so there's a fair amount of space between the retaining wall and the Wetland and there wasn't much not weed actually growing in the retaining While most of it was in in the lawn area at the edge of the lawn area at the top of the wall um so that's more or less what we saw when we were there um I would note that the cut and stem injection is also the method that mass autobond recommends for treating not weed with glyphosate um in the same time of year these treatments sometimes require multiple visits um could you talk about a a long-term monitoring or maintenance plan we are going to keep our eyes on it going forward if you guys approve we'll treat it this year we'll revisit it next year I believe if this is approved we have three years under this my understanding and um we can revisit it next year as necessary we certainly want to go back if we need to and do what we we can to eradicate it so we've discussed we have discussed that yes so uh point of clarification you're requesting one treatment you're not requesting treatment for three years so I think you're so maybe you might want to I'm sorry we're requesting one treatment if necessary we'll do another filing when the time comes whatever format we need to do since we're on the topic of invasives right in the middle of that stand of knotweed is a tree of Heaven any chance you would knock that off at the same time I'd be happy too then if you continue around corner to the north there's other there's another tree of heaven right about where that orange arrow points M if you guys would allow us to we would certainly be happy to I I I wouldn't want to take out the knotweed only to have a tree of Heaven plant tree right over there raining down forign Bas on top of it problem something you want to say about that I I I I think we should allow them if uh if they want want to to take it out but not you know it's because it's uh it's Cemetery property right yeah yeah so if if it if it works out and they like to take it out then then that that should be the U condition I wouldn't even make it a condition it's just a just a request an observation um I just looked into what happens if you cut down a tree of heaven and all the roots send up a whole bunch of new little baby trees of heaven so I think if they were going to take out the tree of Heaven they would need some advice from Essex Horticultural or something like that a way to take out the tree of heaven without producing a forest of ss what one other question I have is once you remove the knotweed what will you be planting there and how will that be maintain the intent right now is to remove the KN weed and let the wand come back we want to see the on go all the way up to the to the stone wall would you SE it um I haven't gotten that far yet to be honest with you um you know I don't know if we would want to dig it up and put in clean Loom and clean seed if that's something that we need to come back to the commission for if we would just want to treat the not weed and let it come back naturally you know and see what happens uh but right now the focus is more on getting rid of the not weed Next Step because my personal intimate experience with trees of Heaven is you're right the roots do send up but occasional mowing is usually not to take care of that over time yeah and maybe weed whacking in the wall because the tree of Heaven's gonna be coming up in among the rocks of the wall you can't mow there right um and when I looked into it there was um painting the bark with a chemical to kill the tree before you cut it down would prevent those shoots but I don't know that we want to do that near the Wetland so but it sounds like so it sounds like issue they have a bid for a certain amount of work and we're going outside of that bid so that's why I just said if if they want to do it they can but leave they have other uh permits that are going to come up that involves trees of Heaven um and uh there's there's no uh description of how they would take care of tre Heaven on this proposal I would suggest that the commission at least see how they would take care of it prior to just saying go ahead and do it but um two of them seemed reasonable but if there were more than that I would be a little more cautious I can certainly engage essics to get advice from them on how to properly treat the tree Haven while they're there if he needs a little more money we could figure that out out you know if you guys would allow that yeah my big concern is that with with a with a source of another invasive problem looming literally overhead are we taking out the knot we'd only to create a tree of Heaven issue right so maybe the question is is this phase one and you're going to come back and and look at whatever else is out there for um invasive such as this tree heaven I did want to say alantis but I didn't so anyway as a spirit of Mike Hanford the alian tree I didn't even notice that the tri of Heavens were there to be honest with you so what if there was 25 of them out there if someone took a count is you know sounds like they're gonna have to come back because I know that Mike and Mike Mike Hanford and Mike cman talked to me about another site where they do want to take care heaven so maybe that permit could turn into several locations that is fine by me and then we would we would have a plan from from Essex or from whoever to to do this treatment we are looking at another site Charles La Cemetary for in discussion about that and that's a much more um so so given that then we can focus this back on the KN yeah let's just focus on the not here deal with that Y and if the next thing comes up want do anything else you want to add I'm all set thank you okay I can't see hang on second my can't see any hands um anybody out there in Zoom land hand up let me see just for a second yeah this is Bill I just want to say I um I uh went out to the property on uh Sunday evening I was just impressed by the the sheer size of the stand and just want to Echo the concern I understand it's application for one year but if you got rid of all of that completely in Forever in one year I I think they do articles about you and so forth so I I share the concern about uh needing to revisit this yeah and I'll just take an opportunity now to say that's not what I meant I said we're looking at an application with one treatment in it I mean the commission wouldn't allow a treatment each year or revisiting with with a um uh you know they they could just write something up and and send it to the commission with the date and time when it's going to happen again so you could approve treatment over that typically it's five years for not weed or any kind of invasives but we could do three years if if you wanted to do that and they would just give the commission notice and also uh you know scope of work and would the conditions whatever they may be that we impose on this noi apply to uh a next year and the next year would be the same noi so these conditions would move forward yeah would just extending you're just saying three treatments yeah okay uh Bill do you have anything else uh no actually that that sounds great to me the uh the idea of three years versus one for the reasons you know Tony stated and and I appreciated Chuck's elaboration that's it thanks thank you um I went out there this afternoon and um yeah I think it's definitely worth taking out the knotweed um I'm scrolling through my photos right now besides knotweed there were um right in that same stone wall a large Buckthorn and a bunch of Bittersweet um so similar to Tony's concerned about the tree of Heaven while you're doing the knotweed I wonder whether those other invasives that are growing in the same wall should be included in this scope of treatment or whether we should come back and deal with them on a separate day um they're all right in among the not weed along the same stretch I would love to amend my proposal with ess6 to treat all the invasives that are in the area and if I'm sure the town reading would be able to fund it while we're there they're the industry professionals that do this type of work I mean that makes complete sense to me do you have a thought on that Chuck yeah we we don't know what they're going to use for treatment so we can't condition it I don't know if they're going to Basil treatment or you know spray or C and dab bloody glove whatever else you call these things but if it was glyphosate and um they would just cut usually on the bitter Suite they would just cut a six inch Peach off and they would tap the bottom they would color what they're using the glyphosate and um that seems to be pretty similar so you know we're not the experts here neither is essics but and they're not here tonight but if it if they would use the same chemical I would feel more confident about expanding the list of invasives they could treat so what we could do is have you talk to them to see how they would address it and what it would cost and uh then come back to us with amendments saying this is what you found out I would honestly prefer just to move forward with the not weed as a standalone project and then revisit everything else at a later date so that we don't miss the treatment window for the N we so revisit it in what context though another filing or whatever context is appropriate when do you think you might do that I mean if you do that in December it probably doesn't help yeah that would probably be later this fall realistically could it be a minor modification so buckthorne and and Bittersweet pretty easy to take care of one one plant I mean buckon that's a mechanical method for both of these it doesn't have to be chemicals how about we just try to pull the other stuff and no treatment since there was like one or two right I mean again if they want to get into it it might be just something that like the bitter Suite the DPW staff could cut the stem and take a chunk out of the middle and see what happens with that and not have to do chemical treatment I would be comfortable with that yeah that sounds good so having said that though in my mind there puts more pressure on planting something and now we're talking about not only addressing the the not weed but whatever else is in that area that area is going to be a big Target for other invasives so I would like to see you do something about putting that in this project however you're going to dress it uh plant seed whatever but not just leave it later because that big an area open I mean we we could certainly plant grass you up to the to the rock wall yeah I mean that would be consistent with what's there so yeah the intent is to get the law established keep it as La now how how would that be how would that amend the current noi uh could we do that just the condition so we doesn't have to resubmit an in so you just want to say uh just establish lawn in the area where the Buckthorn yeah where the Japanese weed is yeah so the the F the first year so they're gonna cut and dab the first year you're just gonna have like brittle remnants of Japanese knotweed and most likely uh vegetation will grow out again so they'd have to treat it again so you're really talking year three so that which would which would give them time okay but but is the area suspect to other things growing in because the the knotweed is cut way back there's more sunlight etc etc uh yes and no yes if it was just a typical area but this is a highly sought after piece of property with the DPW going out there all the time if something else starts establishing it themselves sure we'll either get a notice of intent or or Mike Hanford would just use a mechanical method to to to get it out of there so as long as we feel that won't become we'll certainly we'll certainly keep our eyes on the area and if we see something you know establishing what out of control of communic trust yeah these are all good questions this is like a pilot program we wanted well not me but the DPW wanted to see the reaction of the Conservation Commission and understand the questions you're getting and so sounds like if there's more invasives out there the the plan that you come to the commission with the next time should include those and um that's what I'm hearing and then the chemicals and if they're different chemicals of course you know we'd want all the information on that also I do have a couple of other concerns um I noticed you're the one here presenting even though Essex is the one that created the plan so I would have loved to have a representative of ess6 here so that they could answer our questions tonight um so you're talking pilot program so I think that would be a change I would love to see for future proposals is to actually have the the Essex people here I think if we're getting into the next project that's a larger scope and a large enough scope to bring them in certainly do that but the size and scope of this project at the end of the day I felt I could handle okay um and I know with some pesticide use there's concern about overspray that gets other plants around and I know this stand is either grass or not weed but are there controls that they are going to use to protect the area from overspray or spillage um whatever industry standards that that exist in their best practices to avoid spillage they they will certainly do um in terms of the application it's not a spray it's a cut and drip where I believe they have some type of a bottle with a pointed tip where they drip in or it's some type of like a syringe where they suck up and squirt down in so it's a very controlled application it's um it's not like the dingo doers that they used on the Buckthorn no it's a it's a syringe kind of yeah I believe it's either a syringe or a bottle with a tip that they squeeze and it drips right in there so it's a very controlled application and I didn't see anything in here that was actually written by a environmental scientist from ess6 did I miss it or is there something in it's just his scope of work that describes the treatment and says that cuton dab method little yeah that's their proposal remove and dispose of all knot weed cut to approximately 12 inches and drip aquatically formulated bhate incinerate biomass liked a more comprehensive report from them of the safety measures they were going to take for example sure um and is there going to be a trained monitor there at the site when they're doing the work or you know like are they hiring minimum wage workers to go out and do this or are there going to be an environmental scientist on site I believe there'll be some type of environmental scientist on site I mean Essex Horticulture is a reputable company that does this type of work anybody that works for him is certifi to do this type of work I don't know if the owner Zach himself is planning on being there specifically for them this but if that know is a sensitive issue for you guys you'd like him to be here I can certainly request that of him so what you're asking is you're asking if there's a licensed applicator on site or if all workers are licensed applicators I think uh another group I don't want to mention the names because they're talking about ethics tonight I think all of their staff is licensed applicator so maybe likely with um eics Horticultural also that would be something to find out I mean I'm under the impression not to interrupt you TR I'm under the impression all of his staff are licensed to do this work okay it's not just one man holds the license and he hires unqualified people to come in and do it I would feel more comfortable if that is which I believe is allowed though I think that's allowed you I think you can work on a someone's license oh are you okay I didn't know that this is a little bit of a learning experience for me too honestly yeah and often or I think always with notice of intent we generally get a um a survey a plot plan and all we have is this uh picture picture so um I don't know if the you know I I think I'm not objecting to approving this just because we're missing the plot plan but in the future I would love to see a GIS section of the piece of property that we're talking about more closeup View also Mark if I could add the um the Wetland boundary that showed on the slide is from the national Wetland inventory which is done through aerial Imaging it's not an on the grounds domination yeah um me and Mike talked about this and uh again wanted to see your reaction I mean I wasn't so curious I was trying to push him to you know submit what other people with notices of intent submit but um it was a small stand it was worth seeing what happened but what I'm hearing is for the next one by the rules uh we want we would want a you know a wetland survey we'd want a plan the more comprehensive the program I think the better the information on which it's built so we do have a list of uh requirements for our notices of intent and it's you know an RDA would would have less you know sketches and things like that the notice of intent would and I guess a wetland scientist may or may not be required I mean that's depending on the site but certainly I like to have plans because you can after the Project's over you can look at it and say you went too far you you know you have an accurate plan in front of you and our jurisdictional set packs and all that so um Al in my experience if a line is submitted in an noi it tends to stick around tends to get accepted as as the line and it becomes more difficult to change or more conversome to change absolutely and in this town they they'll accept a stamp plan 10 years back where I used to work in a place they would only do it three years so it is worth it to have some plans okay um any more questions that was all my comments that's it um I'm going to actually invite you to in a second but before I do you can see the theme Here is this is why we want essics to be here there a lot of these questions you don't know the reason don't know the answer you think it's this it'd be good to have definitive answer from the people responsible for the work uh one thing I would like to see is could you get a data sheet or the chemical submit it to Chuck sure have that in the record of this project yep we've dealt with that before but you know just to have it in the record sure okay before I move on then sure do you have anything you want to say no questions GRE um are we allowed to ask the cost associated with this treatment uh no well it's in the scope of work yeah there's the scope of work that little piece of paper there I didn't was that online um it was I don't know if I the right spot probably okay thank you but the bottom line is that isn't a jurisdictional issue maybe a good curiosity issue yes the definitely my own curiosity okay um and I like hard copies I know I'm peeling a lot of trees but that's why I have this is Chuck sent it to me because I requested it and I never have to look you always have them right you just ask it right I've only there made paper from trees I hav't set yeah um okay does anybody else on the commission have any additional comments questions no Chuck do you have any additional comments questions I know you've asked 10 already but no uh no I'm uh I'm good I'm want to make sure that we have time for uh one question about is there anything we need to uh is anything the commission needs to help them make a decision that we' ask Mike to get that would delay this process so let remember those two things go together like you asked for data sheets that might I believe we can assume will be provided and not have it hold things and then I just want to make sure we get all the conditions down again okay so before we do that is there any member of the public either here or online is there anything to add I know you here for different project okay then we're at the point where um oh Chuck's question is there anything that would prevent us from closing and voting on this should we get to the conditions so then the lay off some conditions so you would vote to close and then talk about conditions fair enough vote any more Mo ask for a motion I move to close this hearing I second it I second that this is Tony okay and Walter can you start the voting Walter talber in favor Bill mckinon favor loas in favor Martha Moore in favor I'm out of order sorry j in favor in favor Brian both in favor so we have closed we can get to 700 in yes it was okay and now we can get to conditions what conditions do we want to apply to this uh the commission is allowing applications once every year at the appropriate time which I believe is in July August September end of August September late summer early fall at the ideal time I don't like late summer I want a month so we say in end of August September okay great early September um and then uh it is only for the treatment of knotweed and at when this treatment's finished um you would like to see Loom and Seed over the area of treatment you'd like you to monitor that for future invasives and uh remove those if you see them the rest was about to treee and stuff so that's all I have and data sheet to cheuck data sheet get you guys a data sheet before the work takes place yeah and uh just that we get a a scope and a date before future applications oh good any other conditions notify the commission of the future applications with um but yeah let go okay so looking for a motion then to uh vote on this right taking notes I move to uh approve this noi with the above conditions is she ready wait one second this is Tony I'll second you call let's vote Walter Walter toin in favor Bill MCC in favor in favor in favor in favor Mo in favor in favor okay thank you thank you guys much thank you great night thanks you too you will I won what's that you will I won't I okay so um we're going to open the next hearing even though we're not quite ready to go forward with it they're calling Morin now to find out so we just go through that we'll just get a heads up over there we'll have to continue to the end of this meeting all right so if she's available then we will take it in order if she's not available then we'll pause it we'll continue it till later in this meeting and do other things and come back to it so let's give she was thinking of zooming in so I don't know if somebody but it was supposed to be around 8 so I'm not sure can be Richard's gone to check okay give them a a little early yes give a minute so we don't jump around if we don't have to oh oh I for got him I apologize we have our new driver driving our other son to Lacrosse so I'm gonna be like staring at my front that's two the merits and I mentioned something that is not on the agenda while we're in our pause I noticed while I was at wood and Cemetery today that they laminated sign that was thumbtacked um about the change in the rules had been turned so that the sign was facing the tree so I've rotated it back around so the sign is now visible as you approach that Boardwalk that was just recently put in I don't know if that's where it was originally hung but that's where I saw it so I just flipped it yeah we've got a few phone calls from people when they've seen the size but I think people are just doing that out there so it's G to be uh not as effective you know on August 1 if no one knows about it but they should keep the signs as they are so we can at least get some comments more people would know it's going on so so I just wanted you to know it's facing the right way now now and is that the place you had placed it was on a tree right near the boardwalk so I I worked with um the volunteers I did a couple and then volunteers and Kathy Kelly did a couple so I didn't get down to didn't actually place that okay and I noticed that there's a sign in the cemetery that says no dogs allowed in the cemetery so actually coming in through that entrance nobody should have a dog with them at that location they've had to walk through through the cemetery to get there okay where'd you find out uh she was uh she must be still on because I went to voicemail and I left her a message so if you have something else you want to address so we're do is we're we're gonna open this hearing right away we're going to um continue it okay later in this meeting we'll move on to our next things and then we'll come back when she's available yeah she's in uh I think she's in the Conservation Commission in West okay so I haven't said that uh this is to Contin this is on 167 Belmont Street continue the public hearing on a request for determination and replicability followed by Jeffrey SAR under the Massachusetts weapon protection act uh Mass General Law chapter 131 40 Andor reading we protection by law section 7.1 the applicant proposes to repair and repair a structural upgrade of an existing reare family room the upgrade consists of bringing the addition up to current building code to include repair of damage caused by carpenter ants four hand dug footings will be installed and the spoils will be used outside of the jurisdictional area Additionally the project remove a small 6ot by 6ot exterior deck and replace it with a 176 * 10 by 10 Deck with four hand dug concrete footings the existing stairs will remain the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading Mass 01867 and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessors map 7 lot 15 file number 2024 D3 okay um so we have we have had a discussion on this already um do you want to come up here and yeah give us an update Richard Kaminsky my business address is 1531 Street in L Mass I'm engineer um just to bring you up to date since the last time we spoke uh there was an area a grassy area that the question was was it hydric soil and would it support Wetland vegetation oh time out sorry my mistake open we wanted to uh we wanted to continue until Marin's available so so you know I I was just update you what we've done oh we should make be sure Mar's here so I apologize no no it's okay um so can I have a motion to continue this to later in this meeting I move that we continue this until Moren is available to meet with us later this meeting okay is Tony El second Walter can you vote I was about to Walter talins in favor Bill MC in favor in favor CH in favor Mo in favor martham Mo in favor Brian B in favor thank you okay we'll get back to you soon okay okay s so zero CA swamp the applicant has asked for continuation till August 14th I think was the yeah August 14th so can I have a motion to continue it this is Tony I move to continue thear in Zer C squ C Street the next meeting August 14th Byer second Walter talit in favor Bill MC in favor favor J in favor in favor Martha Mo in favor ran in favor okay that is our hearings for this evening so then we move move on to old new business um first thing there is violation notices um are there any updates we want to talk about you want to talk about Pearl Street so we added one new on Willow Street um and I'll talk to Pearl Street after that okay so 28 Willow Street so this was an backyard seene from the mlet SS and Morgan property and it looked like uh there's been a lot of Cleanup in an area that was known to be a wetland characteristics of a wetland no lawn shaded area and so went out there a week ago there was a pile of brush pretty big pile pile of brush a lot of cleanup that happened so I took a couple pictures and I sent them a picture uh sent them a um notice of non-compliance uh letter and let them know that that area looks like a wetland and that I'd like to check it out I said they should have caution in this area and they shouldn't be doing any work or picking up sticks or altering it in any way on Monday morning I received a phone call from uh one of the owners and we talked it over they were under uh misunderstanding about what they could do but they will be removing the pile of brush out of that area over this weekend and they'll leave the rest alone that they're going to file for uh a boardwalk to get them from their property to the back of their property and uh they'll bring that in and they understand that that process is something that the Conservation Commission um would like to uh review of course and uh so it was a good conversation I think I educated them on what they have back there so I don't have any fear that this will continue at this point so I think my recommendation would be to just leave this alone at this point and leave it at a notice of non-compliance and no need to upgrade it to any other enforcement and they said this weekend hopefully it's so easy enough to check sure yeah so good we'll leave it on here until we're certain that that's okay Pro Street pro street so um so I guess it's this is more of a Brian story than my own but um Brian uh mentioned that Pearl Street has which was a project where um the owner altered a stream to divert it from his property kind of like frost the channel so it actually eroded the bank on the other side he was he was putting in large Boulders and bricks and whatever to try to get it to move over and I think he was filling I'm not sure if he was filling it looked like it would give him more room less stream so he could fit a second car in that driveway so we went through the whole process of an enforcement order and um we got to a point and they had D Williams and Spades represent them we got to a point where they were we were supposed to meet him the day the work was going to start and the dad went into the hospital um Jack was his name what was his last name Jack something or other rivers thank you Jack Rivers anyone knows that name so um went into the hospital and this has been on permanent delay ever since we haven't been able to see here from the owner so Brian had driven page a couple times and wanted me to look for the old or uh enforcement order and write a new one but uh since is the night of the meeting I figured I'd like to hear what the commission would like to say and maybe they' give me some direction on the enforcement order okay I was on the commission when that 445 Pearl Street violation was brought up originally I would very much like to see this stream Bank um project completed and we prevent further erosion of that stream D so whatever we need to do to get them to move forward on this I would like to see happen yeah so what what would you so I'm going to write an enforcement order you can you can tell them to uh come to the next meeting uh got the project within a certain amount of time you have a lot of options maybe you have something to say Brian and then we everyone can chime in on what the enforcement order might say yeah um you know I'm a big proponent of at least talking about fins so uh they certainly have had a lot of time uh to do something to make some progress we give them a break in time on purpose because of the father's health issues um I have gone by the house by gone by TRS that I drove by I've stopped in rung doorbells knocked on doors and what have you I did talk to a downstairs tenant once which didn't help any I did talk to the son who's the actual owner of the house once um I heard a lot of things that he would now do none of which have happened so at least from my perspective I think it's time to uh push again and Ratchet things up no I think maybe it is time to in initiate the daily fine until the work has been completed if that is what it takes to get them to start building because I think August is a great time to get this done while stream levels are low and if they keep delaying we'll be in high water levels in the fall and rain and all that kind of stuff so and the house on the other side is continuing to lose their stream back and it's a new house that just finished building how how do we initiate telling them we want to start finding them so if I can just before we get to that it may be that a more reasonable approach is to in this letter tell them that's what the plan is give them a date certain by which they finally have to uh make progress on this complete let's say to complete this work and then at that point we would come by to check it out and if it's still incomplete then uh whatever the uh the fine we wanted to assess would kick in quick question how long has this been non- in compliance when did this start started before I joined the commission so do you have a year two years when did it first more than two years more than two years yeah there any other thoughts on this I can't see if anybody oh yeah no no comments at home um so does that approach make sense uh I was U managing the screen what's your approach sorry to send them a letter reminding them the enforcement order pointing out that it hasn't been done in low these many months and giving them a date certain by which it had to be done or a daily fine would start yeah sure I can modify the existing enforcement order with some new language letting them know that we would like them to show up at the next meeting and um you know with the plans to discuss this project and a start date and then let's see what happens so that is a reasonable approach the only thing I don't like about it is given them yet best way to find somebody is to really have kind of like a track record of attempts to get get them involved so that's maybe instead of I mean you could mention it but if they don't show up at the next meeting then you could um you know you could you could update the enforcement order with some dates and if they don't show up by that date then you could say you might you're GNA discuss fines at the at the whatever date the next the following meting that's out I just wanted I just wanted to chime in and really strongly support what Chuck said um I've read a lot of uh cases that are cited in the Mac handbook and elsewhere and what he said about notice I I understand you know Brian where you're coming from this has been going on for so long but really giving teeth and a solid foundation to what we want to do next inviting to the meeting as Chuck said if they don't show up that that just gives us a firmer foundation for whatever we do next so I just wanted to add that comment thanks I'm assuming that whatever work they do is going to require a notice of intent or is that not needed under a notice of non they've already got an approved plan they do they just haven't started their approved plan and their three years is nearly up okay and we would have liked it much sooner than three years because every winter when I see the heavy rains I'm like oh no there more River Bank washing away so they would likely have to at least apply for an extension I think they could start the work tomorrow get it done I think they have an approved plan and they've been they've got a company that agreed to do the work for them and they just haven't put the shovel in the ground so to speak or the mulch sock on the bank so an enforcement order is its own kind of order like it can stand on its own and it's not appealable and it's desirable for commissions to leave things in an enforcement order uh because it's not appealable it's you know it's up to the commission uh to figure out whether they want a notice of intent but but that would be an added expense there's going to be a lot of expense in this also I think the most control comes from leaving in in an enforcement order uh those can last forever you don't need to resurrect them or extend them or anything like that so that's why we're going to reach back to the old one update it send it back out again um you know yeah I think that's that's really all I have to say about about that I think we we have the right thing going um my recollection was William spages asked the commission to leave it within the enforcement order to uh get the work done so it would be action is normal just so there was a notice of intent but at the end of the day they're not going to record it and but we would still have to uh release them from the enforcement order with the vote okay so any other comments are we ready for a motion uh one more question did sure somebody said the number three years so they have three years I'm mistaken that's an a notice of intent you have three years years but Chuck just said this an enforcement order this is an enforcement order so the rules are different and is there a timeline for them to respond since we're at the two-year Mark and no and the time that time so we have to write it on the enforcement give them Specific Instructions what to do so um the direction from the Conservation Commission would would be to let them know they want we want them at the next meeting okay so we haven't given them any solid dates for any of these things yet uh after they were going to build and that fell apart we haven't reached back out to them again other than you know through stopping by and calling and things seemed to try to happen but they never did so nothing in writing so I agree with Chuck if it's in writing with a date that's more solid foundation if you just talk going on people showing up the house and asking questions although it's an enforcement right isn't writing paper trail is always better okay so one one other uh quick comment um and maybe this this is part of it anyway but I think given the amount of time that's passed uh if it's appropriate uh Chuck within the format of these letters to just give a little history right okay this this enforcement order went on on X and um we received assurances da da da uh didn't happen nothing more than a few sentences but if it's appropriate again I think it just enhances um the commission's um options going forward that's good good idea um I was just going to suggest I would really like to have the letter that invites them to the next meeting also say they should plan to begin the work before the end of August Bally tell tell them what like the outcome from the meeting yeah but you know if they are coming to the meeting they should come to the meeting having talked to the company that's supposed to do the work and tell them that we are expecting that they should be able to start the work by the end of August that would be my preference yeah we can give them um we can give them an understanding of that's what we'll be looking for but no one's going to find anyone to do any work in two weeks so that's that they're not going to be able to do that but we might say uh the commission would like you to come to the meeting we' like to blah blah blah whatever talk about this project and um by this date we would expect that you would secure uh a company to you know start proceeding on the on the on the job and if that doesn't happen you need to know why we need to uh you know come to a meeting and then at that meeting you could say hey you didn't show up or we don't believe this excuse so we're going to start finding at that point some something to that effect you know but always about just just keep on reaching out it's not just but our next meeting is three weeks from now yeah so I don't want to give them three weeks to dither around and then they start contacting companies I want to have them be told tomorrow or Monday that in three weeks from today they're going to have to come and tell us whether they can start the work by the end of August or why they can't um you know I just think if we just say come to the meeting in three weeks we've lost really good season for doing this stream bank and Chuck is right they probably won't be able to secure anybody in that time but they might as well start the process right yeah that's that's the the U flame I want to light underneath them and Walter has his hand up Walter Walter have they paid any money to anybody for engineering or construction purposes my understanding is they actually have not paid any money to anybody and then the second question I have is do these go out certified mail signature required absolutely yes thank you okay any more comments or can we have a motion motion to authorize Chuck to update the enforcement letter as we just discussed I I make this is Bill mck I make a motion for Chuck to update the enforcement order as we've discussed this evening I second Walter talber in favor b m in favor Jer in favor all in favor arth Moore in favor thank you where do we stand joh somewhere okay all right um so then we need to um reopen the hear continue the hearing on 167 Belmont from earlier this evening I move that we continue the hearing about 167 Belmont Street 167 I think that's what I said 167 oh did you I'm sorry i j second in favor b m in favor in favor in favor Mo in favor Marth Moore in favor in favor okay um yeah you want to be there and I guess we'll put um maren on Zoom okay yeah uh we've done quite a bit since our last meeting and um Norse environmental has been retained to um look into the possibility that there were hydri soils in the areas that were under wind question so I'd like to uh introduce Marin Herold from Norse environmental and who I've known for many many years um and um she has prepared a report that should be in your packet uh regarding her findings so um I'd like to turn it over to Marine if I could chuck I don't know how this works so well Moren can uh start talking or turn her iPhone on so she has permission already okay Morin can you hear us yes can you hear me yes okay hi good evening everyone um so Richard had asked me to come out to the site um to take a look of an area that the commission you know experienced some squishy lawn area um so I went out I met Richard I met the homeowner I augured in two different locations within this lawn area um it had a ra rather deep top soil fill material I augur down to 24 to 36 Ines in two different locations um I did not see any evidence of redoximorphic features or concentrations or por lining or oxidized riseof fears which would be an indicator of the water table um again at the time that I went out there the soil was not saturated um there was no ponding um I didn't see any water stained leaves Granite was an area of lawn um I didn't see any um other Wetland hydrology indicators um the adjacent vegetation nearby um the Maple and the silver Maples those are considered Wetland plants um but as everybody knows you can grow a maple in your front yard as well um the under story I saw multifloor Rose and Catalpa some black cherry those are your typical Upland plants I did see one or two Elders those are wetlands and of course we had a robust uh Vine layer of Bittersweet and some Poison Ivy and some Virginia creeper um um Upland plants as well um you know my conclusion is I would not flag that area as a wetland that's an Upland area uh the house was built in 1966 so obviously you know some of the lawn has been manipulated over the years uh you know you had some grading for the house itself but my professional opinion is that you don't have a predominance of wetland vegetation you do not have hydric soils and I did not see any Wetland hydrology indicators and I can open it up to the commission with any questions but before we do so this letter from maren came after our um period that we usually want things ahead of time uh we can in essence she just walked us through it we're reviewing it in situ which we can do so I don't know if anybody had a chance to read it ahead of time but does anybody have any questions either on what Moren just said or what youve read in the letter anybody answer and have you had time to digest the letter fair enough have you had time to digest the letter I do have a question I did read it um and thank you for putting it together it it seemed pretty comprehensive um you you talk about how these soils are mapped by the soil survey did you find uh that what you saw matched how it's been mapped or there any differences between your observations and the mapping all right so with us sorry I forgot to hit the tap I um yeah so it it's mapped as a marac Urban Land which I provide the description in the report um but because I didn't have access to a back ho I can only augur so deep um which I got down to 24 to 36 in um and most of that material was was just a LOM type fill Sandy loan material that I came across um so the short answer is to confirm that it's a meramac soil I'd have to do a deole but um certainly you know the urban Lan is an indicator of the structions you have on site and the fil thank you are there any other questions from the commission um I appreciate moren's report I did have time to read it so I would be comfortable um ruling on this tonight if the other members of the commission have heard enough um and I did look on uh the town division website and the the previous project was 2022 so um you know that was the I know I found right that was when they applied to build the tiny deck yes and too bad they didn't just build a bigger deck in the first place but you'd still be back for the carpenter ends yeah um okay so um yeah I am I am comfortable with what Moren reported that it's not a wetland um and so my question is given where the presumed Wetland line is considerably further back in the woods I definitely want to see the um yard waste cleaned up um I want to know what the the commission still feels strongly that we need to put in a vegetated buffer or is the vegetated buffer that's there sufficient so I'd like to have a conversation about that question anybody have comments on that is the buffer in addition to what they already have you're asking for something in addition to it what we were talking about last time was them planting some trees shrubs ground layer in what's now lawn because that soggy spot seemed to feel like Wetland but if that's actually not Wetland do we need to ask them to do those plantings meaning is it required are we going to requir are we going require because the Wetland Line is now back in the woods somewhere and I think from I don't have a copy of Morin's report but I think it's certainly more than 25 feet back oh yeah was I believe it was like 60 yeah well in fact even from the question we had on the Arc it was 42 ft okay so does anybody else in the commission have an opinion whether we should continue discussion of the Wetland plantings bill um so I I just want to be uh clear because we were all interested obviously in the report thank you for the report I also read it and appreciate how on point it was um uh so just want to make sure I understand what what you were saying Martha that um if we look at our zone of natural vegetation because the Wetland is much further back than if it had been you know that lawn had actually been identified as Wetland soil that you're satisfied from what you saw that the zone of natural vegetation the 25 foot already has natural vegetation um because otherwise as you know we would want to see if it didn't um at least a buffer strip with the usual overstory under story and uh ground layer but what I hear you saying is from what you saw on the site that really is already there based on where the Wetland actually is do I have that right that is correct and the only issue I have with that zone of natural vegetation is that previous homeowners have been filling it with yard weight was so if we get rid of the yard waste we have a viable zone of natural vegetation albe it contaminated with some invasives so we might you know encourage the homeowners to deal with the Bittersweet and the Buckthorn and things like that but they I don't feel like they need to reduce the size of their lawn by any because there's already a whole big wide swath of vegetation between the lawn and the Wetland that's my thought but I'm bringing it up it does answer your question it it does answer my question and of course I do agree with h what you said about uh removing any debris and also uh the homeowner considering as you say about the invasives those are standard things we talk about even when there is a zone of natural vegetation if we see concerns so I'm very much on board with that and that's my comment thank you just to clarify when Martha says yard waste you and I went looked at it there's lots of grass peons there's lots of leaves and there's some brush piles I included a picture in your package I took a photograph of of an area Mr had already started cleaning up I just want to be sure we all the same definition of yard way so oh yeah well it's it's clearly defined yes it is okay yeah he's going to clean all that up are there any other questions comments on this just a reminder that if you're trying to deal with the invasives it's mechanical and not chemical if you want to use chemicals you need to come back and talk to us about it are you requiring that are you are you asking them I'm encouraging them but I'm not requiring it I'm just you know so many people come and they say well we didn't know we could anything back there we thought we just had to leave it alone and so I want to do a little education that if you want to protect your trees you want to do some cutting of the buck of the Bittersweet Vines for example okay so now we're all been educated chck do you have any comments you want to add to this my only comment is that uh if we required a vegetated buffer strip it would be um it would be non it would be full of contribute to the habitat and so I think there's an opportunity here to not lose more lawn but to improve what's out there so maybe it would be uh something that commission should consider to request that buck Thorn is pulled and the Bittersweet Vines are cut but not pulled down comment um but you're talking about within what is now vegetated as opposed to planting y evives inside the lawn right no planting just uh just invasive removal giving the opportunity for the seed bank to grow in whatever whatever's out there and maybe some monitoring through the course of this perit I'd be good with that yeah and I I just want to say that I I would be good with that too because of course it is consistent with why we want a buffer strip in the first place and I hear you saying okay we have vegetation there and so forth but we have these invasives and so forth and when we have a buffer strip uh adjacent to the Wetland um we're certainly not contemplating that a land owner is going to put invasives in there that's not what happened here of course but the idea of removing them so that the buffer strip is serving the purpose the commission wants makes a lot of sense to me that's my comment okay are there any other comments do you folks have anything you want to contribute I just have a question just in terms of make making sure we remove things oh Jennifer saw 167 Belmont um just making sure that we remove things properly I don't know we like I just want to make sure there no chemicals but learning which particular invasive plants that kind of thing is that something that's written down for us in a space is that something that we yeah so we can send you some literature on that but if if you want I could stop by and and just show you what you're okay looking for these seem to be two very simple plants to ad okay yeah just for for newbies like us thank you the bug Thorn can be a little tricky if you haven't engaged what was the one that was pulled up instead of buthorn all the cherries instead of cutting the Thor so that was a previous applicant so yeah definitely take Chuck up on his offer to come show you what to cut and what to leave think we ready to close can I have a motion to close the hearing on 167 just Tony I move to close the hearing on 167 Belmont I second Walter toins in favor B mck in favor in favor in favor in favor Marth theore in favor rbo in favor okay um so this is an RDA we can attach some conditions to an RDA do you want to read the ones you think we have already uh yeah clean up the yard waste and remove the Buckthorn and Bittersweet within um that back vegetated area there any other conditions I believe there was one regarding the boat the post for the deck not going into the roots of the tree that's right we did talk about that yeah yes I mean was that the the uh concrete uh Pier that was going to be yeah it might be in in The Roots move I'll move it yeah there are a lot of roots there but I'll I'll try to pick a spot in between yeah right so that's just a condition that you have to ADH to move one tube away from okay are there any other conditions all right so now we need to vote on the RDA um so can we have a motion uh for a negative determination of for the RDA I move that we issue a negative determination for this RDA thus allowing them to continue with their project i j second Walter toins in favor bill mck in favor Tony rakus in favor J fav Mar Mo in favor in favor so just in case you're wondering negative is not a bad thing your they'll fix your de all right Moren thank you for effort there apprciate it thank you good luck bye bye can you just spell your last name for me my name yes k m i n k i i n I'm yeah I just I guessed at the spelling on last month's minutes so meeting's minutes so I want to get it spelled so I can get it right this time all right okay than CH thank you for your a lot did thank you thank you very much thank you okay on to discussion I don't have any me tonight we have several we can just get that online yeah okay thank you so much um the first one is 52 lanis is there an update chck uh there's no update um okay so basic see nothing to do there yeah so we we had a we'll be looking as soon as things are are said but there right it's just left on the agenda I want to be sure we placeold drastic that's on the agenda yeah it's for next time y August 14th we're going to do the site visit on August 12th all right then the next one item six is certificate of compliance for 16 Varney is there an update yeah there is an update with this one uh Theo reached out to me and canot make tonight's meeting issue came up but he would like some more so you sent me a list and he would like some more Direction on that that list he said um that the uh he appreciated that the Roan control could be removed but the uh wood chips uh he felt that those were there um for a long time prior to U this this project and he said he had pictures showing that um so about the wood chips and I don't know if you want to go over your list first and we can talk about those iters but he did want to know about each one what you saw and what you want done about it so before we get into it then Walter can you walk us through the site visit and the list of issues that you wrote down this was uh this took place last Monday yeah there were four of us there um yeah around the perim of the property within the buffer zone there was a lot of grass a lot of wood chips um many of the wood chips had spilled over and were burying plant work plants that were there uh to be picky there was the corner of the patio was less than 35 ft from the uh Wetland um there was a question about the parking area which is gravel so obviously permeable will it always stay gravel and then finally there was a a post uh an item of construction 4 foot by 4ot vertical piece of wood surrounded by look like concrete pieces on the ground those are the observations I had made okay Tony do anything you want to add to that terms of General observations um uh the site is is the property is fairly well secluded um most of the property even where it's not Wetland uh along the border along the lawn um had a lot of native vegetation especially um uh sweet pepper bush which isn't something that we typically see um we didn't really see anything in terms of invasive species along the BR okay one thing I'd like to clarify is the wood chips that Walter was talking about actually are beyond the U bounds of the uh the buffer and it's significant in some places I'm going to say it's 20 ft Beyond those bounds so it's especially towards the back of the property it is pretty far into the um no disturb Zone um question I had on the patio and the stone wall associated with it they are closer than 35 ft they have shown that way on the as plan was that part of the approved plan back when that project was appr approved that that would go that far back so I saw that comment and I I left it for Jack to answer that question because he needed to bullet point each inconsistency with the order of conditions so I I didn't look into that I can for the next meeting but um that's what I would expect and not have it on the letter and that's Jack I mean some explanation needs to be made okay um Grand I would love to to pull out and I'm sorry I didn't bring it tonight the proposed plan that they came with because I think the post and the patio were pre-existing before they built the addition to the house I know there was a post I couldn't remember where it was it looked closer to the vegetation than I remembered it being but when we were there it was cold there was very little Leaf cover or anything so it looked different and I didn't get to this site visit so but I just I remember we questioned Theo on what was going on with that post in the middle of the backyard okay so I know there was a post I don't know if he moved it I'd be surprised if he did but I also remember there was a patio with a wall that I think did already stick beyond the 35 foot so I would just like to confirm that yeah um and as I said it's on the as built there's no or anything they didn't build a patio they only built an addition so I think the patio is still patio yeah and that was relatively early in my membership and I may not have recognized my memory is also that there was a shed sort of right at the edge of the 25 foot line something like that has the shed been moved ah okay so just do a debris around it and that's all good okay um okay so um at this point there are issues um he would like so so how does he want to have this point BYO conversation so you run up three things um so I remember two so the the uh bark mulch and the wood chips do you want them removed from you said the the you didn't say the resource area you said like the the inner buffer zone all right so yes I would like them be moved up to the bounds so it would be natural so out of the 25 foot z&b yes that's clear all all around the property so I wasn't there can you explain let's say you have a wetland line and you have a 25 foot line are there wood chips within that area so you have the patio yeah which extends be Beyond 35 feet then they have a number of the concrete bounds and then going beyond that line between the bounds there's wood chips on the ground for many feet Beyond those bounds further towards the WEA okay and the we generally ask for everything behind the concrete bound with the yellow signs on top is natural vegetation and this natural vegetation area actually has wood chips laid there right got it um so we should we should have this conversation with them so how do you think this happens ch um I just tell them okay looking for a certificate of compliance um so he has to move the wood chips out of the 25 put znv all around the property that's an absolute right that's what the commission's going to all right so the structure uh the patio structure beyond the 35 foot you want an explanation on that whether it was built with this project yeah or did it exist prior to this project and then that wooden post I think it's a I think it's a like a prop or something that he trains his dogs with that's what I thought too yeah so just an explanation on that also I did you think it moved it was pretty much in the back corner when I and it may still be it so my my memory is very visual pattern oriented and because of all the Leaf cover that wasn't there the pattern didn't look the same I know that's relatively rague to say the least but that's why it looked off toate and I want just want some confirmation okay so but I agree I don't know why he would have moved it just want to know if he did so just it it just sounds like yers mooved move some wood shifts out of znv one last thing as Walter mentioned up front next to the pave driveway there's a gravel flat area looks like it's for additional parking if they wanted uh there are concrete bounds over there as well and um there's a area of this gravel where it bows beyond the bounds and so I want to make make it clear that that would not agree and that's okay we don't want anybody to get the idea that we've approved it now they could PVE it or something so I just want it noted that um that that area that goes beyond the the bounds is that should be uh cleaned up and converted to natural vegetation as well it's not big uh we didn't measure it but you know it it goes a few feet out of the top of the B is the 25 foot bounds yes and that off the additional parking area next to the driveway restored okay wter to okay Walther yeah if they remove the chips they need to replace it with appropriate vegetation yes okay so for the purpose of yes um when we were approving it there were miles of firewood beyond the 25 foot line um did you guys notice if they were still there I didn't see any you didn't see any but they had I think they were working on removing them before they started the project and in fact as another positive there's a path going off of the lawn into the woods um heading back towards table Street we went in there and there's no yard waste anything that's a positive okay um so at this point they have things to address they're not going to vote to issue uh certificate of compliance we don't have to vote on this or anything do we no and so we put that one to bed for tonight um and that brings us to uh certificate compliance for 18 wither uh is the Builder they didn't respond when I sent them the uh when I sent him the list yeah wur yeah um Brian and I visited them on Monday as well the first thing that jumps out of course is this huge plastic stockade fence on 270 degrees of the property uh looking at the plan it does say stock eight fence now my interpretation when we first visited this site was that that described the existing crummy stockade fence that was falling down I wasn't sure that they were going to replace it with something else so I'm a little bit vague on that I I defer on to somebody else on that one but given the vagueness of that um the itself has little um metal mesh underneath it preventing animals from going back and forth and there were other places where holes were filled with wood chips which brings us back to the wood chip conversation because the wood chips are if I'm interpreting the drawing correctly within uh the uh 35 foot Zone the other thing is the 35 or the 25 uh me 25 uh there's a planting on on the uh plan there was a planting uh plan um which wasn't really obeyed and the plants that are in there are really in miserable shape uh we did have that very dry spell two or three weeks ago and looks like it just basically wilted everything that they had planted um it was inaccess the fence made the whole thing inaccessible to see where it was relative to the wetlands so I'm just looking at the the the drawing and making those assumptions that's what I have so I um so the Conservation Commission approved the fence in two separate approvals okay or the the chairs did anyways uh I think the one section existed and they just wanted to connect up to it so um but uh blocking up the bottom is uh is not something that the commission allows sounds like there's an issue out there with whatever we weasel or something getting underne no not not weasel um I did a site visit today knocked on the door to get permission to look in the backyard and the homeowner came out and said can I ask you some questions and so he walked the property with me and he explained that the um mesh he put behind the fence at the bottom was because he's worried about his dog going under the fence chasing a chipmunk and then he can't get back there to rescue the dog down the hill because he's fenced the whole yard but he said he'd be willing to um move those panels so that there are say say 4 in gaps between the panels so the wildlife can get in and out and his dog won't Escape so that was his suggestion and I said he should also talk to you and I encouraged him to come tonight but he had other plans so um I think he's not insisting on keeping his yard Wildlife free but he wants to keep his dog safe from escaping out underneath the fence how big are the gaps underneath the fence um that's pretty big some of them are like six inches high so a a small dog could dig under pretty easily because the ground undulates and the fence bottom is straight so there's a number of gaps as Walter said some of them are filled with wood chips some big is a dog I did not ask but he said if he left 4 inch gaps his dog would not be able to get through that yeah so I mean I think as long as something gets in there they can find their way out that's so maybe a condition to make sure that anything 4 in or under is left open I don't know what that leaves for the fence I could look at that yeah there's a number of places around the yard where they have that mesh but I was thinking with the 4 inch thing that you were just talking about if they had the mesh and they left maybe it's what you meant 4 inch gaps in the mesh the fence can still be complete but if there's a gap in the yeah well mesh the mesh are 12in panels okay and he has placed the panels right now side by side and he says he's willing to remove some panels and spread them out to leave gas I misunderstood I thought you make the panels of the fence itself no no no the panels of the mesh he's willing to take some of the mesh out and leave gaps so that animals can go through but his dog can't escape and if you're worried about animals being trapped in the yard the vence facing the street has no mesh under it correct because he says if his dog runs out toward the street he can see the dog but he's worried about this hill and to the river and you know there's no gate in the fence so he can't follow the dog down into the stream and bring the dog back in so that was his question about that he also asked me a number of questions about the um the weeds that are growing up around his bushes which are um as far as I can tell not native species ground cover that was deliberately planted but just um probably invasives weeds that have grown up and I said we generally do encourage people to clean around their bushes so the bushes can grow and that he should contact you for a um approved list of ground cover because they don't seem to have done the ground cover labor they've got the trees up above they've planted bushes many of which are dead not all but many and there's no ground cover layer and there are probably pre-existing hostas and dayes that are in that 25 foot zone of natural vegetation that were from the previous homeowners and survived the project so what's the instruction on the plants they need to have they need to wait for a certificate of compliance until the plants are the dead ones are surviving I would if I had to add to this they have a number of spr sprinker heads around most of them were up against the house so it's possible the water that's spray just doesn't reach that far back if the way it is you have a house then they have a yard and then they have this planted area the things that are closer to the grass are actually okay shapewise farther back you go the more withered they look so almost everything back close to the fence has gone already it's not going to make it so I think the question to him is um first of all does he need to reconsider how he Waters that I I don't know if he wants to put in the sprinkler there's a sprinkler that's actually up in a little area that sticks out and I don't know how that's aimed which is a question but either way it's not getting watered so the the condition is the plants that were supposed to be there need to survive to get certificate I mean that's that's consistent to everything we do yeah right so um that area is not in good shape another thing I noticed is that there's a pine tree in the back left that is in bad shape oh the top branch is a bear um I think this might have been one of the two maret that we talked about in the original project there was one that is gone but there was one back further and I think this might be that but either way there a tree back there that's in trouble um so it wasn't part of the order so I don't think we can demand anything of it he should be away that tree is in bad shape um so he was asking a lot of questions about what he can plant there and he doesn't like the way it looks right now because it's just all full of weeds and I said he really should contact you and get the list of approved native species online if he wants to change what's there he needs to talk to you about it um and Walter has his hand up Walter yeah looking at the original plan there was supposed to be wild flower seed mix planted in shall we say the upper right corner of the property which I believe was because there are some weird little flowers that I don't know uh popping up in that area so I think that was done I don't know if it was an appropriate mix for the Zone but on the other hand we approved it that is correct um was there anything else but the plant and plan that you thought was not adhered to the number of plants I mean I'm not a botanist I do know a red o your dog would I love them but the plan calls for three or four of them I think and there's only one that I found So the plan wasn't really adhered to in my opinion I recognized some Arrow Woods some surviving some not there was a river birch there but I didn't go in with the uh approved plan so I don't know how what was there compares to the plan but if they're having to replant for the dead plants I would certainly say they should follow the approved plan when they're doing the replanting okay ch do you have any thoughts about the pre-existing hostas and dayes that have returned um is that something he can keep or should he be trying to turn those into natives if if they were there before I don't sounds like there's a there's certainly a learning curve with planting and hostage are going to be the most forgiving plants he could probably have in his backyard so I wouldn't really tell him to take those out and try to plant something else but I do think that we should just uh there's an approv plan he's looking for a certificate of compliance he needs to meet the conditions that are in the order of conditions and then make sure that all those plants are planted and they've survived so it doesn't look like we're at a point where this is going to get approved and my only question is that list that was provided to me you need all those things corrected fixed or replanted prior to um so all those things the mesh the in bad shape what else was on the list um W did you have the list well there was a removal of the wood chips yeah yeah wood chips from the znv let me look what can he do in the znv to deal with the bare spots where nothing's growing you can plant native zone of natural vegetation the 25 foot line you can plant native shrubs trees whatever he wants as what he needs is the ground cover layer so there are bare places that should be he's got shrubs or not he's got trees but I don't know I think the wildflower mix didn't really take very well um near the fence so he's got wood chips near the fence where the ground was Bare and we're saying if he take if he needs to take up the wood chips then he needs to plant some ground cover there would that make sense yeah I mean we don't want just dirt or Loom there yeah okay so instead of the wood chips to cover the bare dirt to cover the loan he needs some ground cover plantings and one last thing I just checked the email one last item was the several downspouts um one of them goes into a bed of stone so that's dispersed the one that comes down next to the deck do go goes to the ground and has already eroded a Hole uh where the water comes down so um The Yards very flat I don't think there's any risk of it of the of the soil being pushed to the wetlands that would be a million year storm to do that but um it's probably something that he wants to address just to keep his yard in the better shape I don't know whether he wants to put some Stones where that down spout is as well but it's clear a a hole with some obvious erosion we're talking about the homeowner in all of these instances but how much of this is actually a builder responsibility compared to a homeowner responsibility are the plantings of the shrubs and the ground cover whatever it is is that something that since the plants died the builder needs to replace them or has the Builder's responsibility gone to the homeowner now well that's between the homeowner and the Builder okay I believe the Builder is uh submitted the Certificate ofli request so to Fig back on all of this if the Builder put in all the plantings the homeowner doesn't water them and they die how does that work good question because the home owner could say I'm not spending money on water to water these plants they died for our purposes it doesn't really matter yeah at the end of the day they need to have they need to follow the planting plan they don't follow the planting plan because of say a supply issue um they just need to let us know and make sure that they're substituting with other approved Wetland plants at the end of the day at the end of the twoyear or threeyear period or whatever period the order of conditions established you need to have what is it 75% covered survival yeah how they get there whether it's between the homeowner not watering or the the the the Builder putting the wrong species not up to us we just want to make sure that they've met the requirement so if theyve met the requirement and then they die so after after we issue the certificate of compliance and we go out for another project a couple years later and all this is dead I mean it would be appropriate to bring it up but we don't go back in between and make sure it dies that's why we're having those three years are supposed to have it take root and establish itself so that so they will survive I mean I think we've gone back and forth this a couple times some you know other commissions 100% at issuance of certificate of compliance then expecting you know somewhere some portion of that will die over the years but um think of it this way we are saying yes to a project and as part of that yes we are asking for mitigation that's supposed to be there in perpetuity so they are agreeing to planting a vegetated buffer strip and that doesn't go out when they want a swim set there that's that's what they gave away to get their addition or their driveway or whatever or pool and so that always should be there um so basically they they they're withered away in the timeline of waiting for compliance yeah so they need to be replanted they usually water them usually the Builder you know understands that I mean see this this Builder's been here several times us so I don't I don't know what happened and they didn't answer the email so those two things are out there another thing I noticed when we were out there is the um place where the erosion control was laid down is now a strip four inches wide of bare dirt so I suggested to the homeowner that was something that should also be replanted with grass seed seed grass SE yeah fill in that strip where the erosion control was taken up um behind that in one part of the yard clearly was established grass before and has not been being mowed and is like 12 inch tall grass and then other parts are the various weeds and wild flowers um but I suggested he could mow that grass that's on the other side of the erosion control before you get back to the bushes that were planted um is that correct advice yeah it sounds sounds fine okay okay so at this point I say it's clear that we're not going to issue COC on this tonight so you have a good list of things to chat with them about so at this point I think we can move on we don't need to vote on this or anything so the next thing would be the next conservation DPW coordination meeting which is August 6 I'm available to zoom in on that right yeah once again I believe I am time will tell yeah and one of the items on the list is going to be mowing bear Meadow and specifically the area around the Pavilion which is 18inch high grass and no no poison ivy yeah um another thing that should be on it is uh I was in town Forest today and if you remember there was that channel that had been cut across one of the trails Big erosion path going right into the wetlands Jeff has done a great job at cleaning that up there's a new pipe in there it's level uh there's good uh Stone on either end of it the hold the place that should last it looks like great and other thing I like is the level is such that it won't entirely drain a smaller pool water um to the right of that path away from the wed so we should at least give him a thank you for doing that well yeah you're welcome because I was there and set that up all right okay and I think I told you that so because that was a burn in my saddle for a long time I wouldn't I mentioned the pipe and having well whatever okay I'll tell Jeff I'll tell Jeff yeah we we EST elevation on the staining on the on the tree next to the okay well you done good well let's find out the spring okay so yeah so Walter's doing the volunteer Chuck so you're all set all right any build thank you for working with Jeff on that J I think it was your direction that I was out there to uh make sure that it was done I was suggesting a lot of to a lot of times but the channel was getting deeper I thought we're gonna have our own grand grand Canon I all you man I mean okay any bills approved there are not any administrator's report I know besd you got that re in place no no no okay now minutes for for approval we have two sets um this actually says it wrong I think the first one is 612 correct um has everybody had a chance to review it have you sent comments in or do you have any comments you want to play out here that was the meeting we approved the plan for Bare Meadow and the new uh land use polic use policies okay did I write those minutes I did you wrote those minutes okay and I think I saw a few typos but nothing worth okay if you yeah if you want to okay um in that case then can I have a motion to approve the minutes for June 12th go ahead I mooved to approve the move uh approve the um minutes for June second uh I second the motion Walter tber approves bill mck in favor in favor in fav Brian in favor okay so the next set of minutes is July 10th same questions have anybody has everybody had a chance to review that there's also a June 26th sorry not on on my list I know it's not and I think we don't have June 26 yet is that correct oh yeah no it's not yeah no it'll be at the next meeting yeah who's working on that one I was so busy getting that pipe right at the right elevation that I couldn't get minutes done I just want to make sure we hav we can't just ignore them we do have to eventually approve them and we can't approve approve July 10th yet because I only sent them to Chuck today or maybe yesterday so they haven't gone at okay so I think the only minutes we could approve today that's did I look for when I couldn't find them I was going to say had okay no but so so we need to keep June 26th and July 10th on the agenda plus tonight plus tonight and I'll do tonight and I did finish June 10th so Chuck can send those out and hopefully he I'll have a chance to do June 26th and we'll have three sets to approve next time if I get mine done quickly and just as a for warning when you're reviewing these things pay attention to the level of detail that is and is not in there because some of you are going to be volunteered for upcoming meetings I'm ass sure you'll be happy for the volunteering I leave it to the professionals you will be I got to learn from the professionals we had a professional at um right so that's it for the minutes is there anything else before we say adios nothing can I have a motion who Brian there was a there was a discussion you and I had in private if I may say when we were at the woodw cemetery uh hang on so it wasn't on the agenda I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about anyway but it was a it was a personal thing festive thing oh um okay yeah you can talk about that sure um I'd like to plant the seed about having the Commissioners Chuck as well at my house for a get together later on this summer early fall I have a wonderful deck which is absolutely built for parties so it a social thing really quick like on a Friday afternoon maybe you know a weekend afternoon I just want to plant the seed I think it's a fine idea we have to see how it plays out but I like I said to you then that sounds great personally I love U team building kind of things I appreciate that yeah and uh Mr Bo I will make sure that JD is invited okay that would be good um could we do some sort of um offline poll of what dates would work for people because that's often the hardest thing is finding a date when everybody can be there amen yeah wal just send out an email to everybody and ask them to give broad suggestions and then you can begin to winnow it down okay your you and I can talk about another way to give people a chance to pick dates that work I'll talk to you okay having said that thank you I'm looking for a motion for adjournment Craig i c Mo a motion for adjournment of this meeting all in favor Sor I wasn't second anybody want to second that all right I second all in favor 59 hey o awesome job starting and finishing by that thank you and uh good night Walter and Bill good night good night oh you want to get rid of us sir well thank you for the uh thank all right bye now all right good night e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for