##VIDEO ID:P4wd2wHW1oI## e e e e e e e e e recording progress might have been TR okay uh hello everyone this is Chuck terone readings conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consisting with chapter 2 of the act of 2023 which further extends certain provisions of covid-19 measures regarding remote participation and public meetings until March 31st 2025 please note that not all items listed may be May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law uh this agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting please note this meeting is being recorded all materials for this meeting are available at the following link which shall provide in the chat after I finish the script and Brian Bo the commission chair will facilitate this meeting please note that there will be a public comment period for each hearing each vote taken during this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote we will begin with a roll call attendance Brian can you review tonight's agenda and take the attendance okay I'll review the agenda first um our first hearing is continuation of public hearing notice of intent for zero SE swamp next hearing is a continuation of public hearing on notice of intent for 555 West Street those are only two hearings then we will have um some old new business to discuss several discussion items including two certificate of compliance then our usual uh conservation DPW monthly meeting um commitments ministrative report and then minutes for approval having said that I will uh conduct the role um and this is the order that we vote in uh Walter Walter talbet member pres Tony Tony rakis member present jro jro ster member present Martha Martha Moore Vice chair present Brian B chair present and the time is 707 707 707 okay um then that will bring us to our first hearing of the evening zero Cedar Swamp a continuation Chuck through anybody there you want to let in uh yes uh um son Sha shaah thank you shaah uh please unmute yourself and uh introduce yourself for the uh commission oh there you are great absolutely uh my name is Shona pistus I'm with the BSC group it's an environmental consulting firm representing New England power um unfortunately Andrew Cole who's the applicant for New England power was unable to to make it tonight so it's it's just me okay thank you um do you want to start us off with any opening remarks sure I I know this um oh are you talking to me sorry or Chuck sorry I was just going to say uh yeah it seems like we got h a memo and maybe you can just go over that memo that would be probably a good way to start sure no problem um so uh I I believe the last hearing was about a month or so ago uh just to kind of briefly run through the project um this project is part of a a much longer um existing uh transmission line uh replacement project it runs 17 miles from tuxbury to sagus um and there's a small portion of the line which runs through Reading at the kind of the corner of North Reading in Lindfield um the project uh is to replace most of the the structures holding up the the lines they've reached kind of end of life um and they they need to be replaced to ensure reliability of the line uh Within kind of that North Reading uh reading Linfield area um in a Conservation Area known as Cedar Swamp uh there's a portion of the line that needs to be realigned uh this is due to kind of the the easement area that uh New England power has uh and where trees very large trees are growing on the kind of the northern side of the rway uh where New England power does not have rights uh to remove the trees they are encroaching on the clearances of the line and so for a section um of a few thousand feet uh the line will be realigned about a half mile of which is in um in this area to realign uh this section uh it requires uh removal of trees select removal of trees on the southern side of the line um including a number of Cedars uh we did a a kind of a um a survey an on-site survey uh looking at transex and estimated there are somewhere around 550 trees that are above that 6 in dbh uh that may or may not be removed as part of this kind of selective removal um the the letter that we sent I believe that came in yesterday was in response to a few questions that came from uh specifically from from Chuck around kind of restoration uh what's kind of the restoration protocol so within the area where trees are to be removed um the way that the crews will get into this area um and I'm happy to share a map if the if the commission's able to see it I might we kind of facilitate if if there's an ability to share a screen and do you have an ex oh yeah please go ahead sure you should have permissions okay okay minim this can the commission see the map in front of them yes okay so um within this map here uh this is the the right of way as it passes through uh this kind of corner of reading um this is within Camp Curtis Guild area uh in this strip kind of outlined by these two dashed red lines this is the area where the uh tree removal when NEP is proposing tree removal uh you have kind of the the the red line of the existing overhead um power lines and then there's another yellow one uh where the the realignment is is proposed um each of these kinds of blocks is a temporary construction matting work area uh where they're proposing to um add a new structure and actually remove two existing so they're replacing two with a with a single structure the uh the letter asked about kind of restoration within this area and restoration overall so Cru will come in to the entire area is in is in is in Wetlands so there is there's no permanent Access Road there's no permanent grading no permanent fill proposed within any of this area uh Crews will come in with um construction matting which is you know these large typically Timber mats about 8 ft by 4 feet sorry 16 feet by 4 feet and they lay them in a line to um to produce kind of these these access roads where heavy equipment that's needed to put up the con the poles or take down the poles uh they can travel along these construction mats um the way that they're put into these Wetlands is typically you have um one or two of the the mats uh placed as stringers so they're not kind of placed uh sequentially uh there's space between them and then you have a deck um that's that's where the the each of the mats are aligned over each other to provide kind of this continuous surface so underneath typically there's there's room for for um for water for uh movement underneath the matting uh the work area setup is one large uh um pad so this is about a 100 by 100 uh this is about the maximum extent of of what we believe the contractors will use uh Sometimes they come in and use a smaller area depending on the the work proposed uh the trucks that they need to get in kind of the equipment that they use um the mats will go in at the beginning of the job um they'll come out they will remove the structure they'll they'll pour the foundations for the new structure and then come back later uh set up the the steel Tower uh and then later in the job once all of the structures along the line are set up um they'll replace the overhead wi so they'll move it kind of from the existing to the new uh once the new wire is up they'll come out and they'll they'll um take out or remove the old structures so these mats are in place um we under our permit conditions with the Army Corps of Engineers we have a section 404 permit um these this matting will be in place for up under a growing season so that could be uh they're placed in in the winter um kind of go through a single you know spring summer fall season and then are uh removed before the spring so they're not really in place for longer than a single growing season um restoration for construction matting uh typically consists of Inu restoration because the matting is placed directly over the vegetation and is only in for about a grow growing season um you do lose the kind of the you know the herbaceous uh vegetation for the season uh but come the next season existing root seed uh stock you'll have a full kind of restoration of of that um of the area underneath these kind of these construction mats uh we are obligated under our permit conditions with both the Army Corps and D under our um water quality start to provide um um immediate post removal um inspections once they they take the matting up um and a uh a quarterly inspection until you see you do see that um it's per per permit conditions about 75% of post of um pre-construction vegetation so we we're we we do quarterly inspections and Report those back to the uh to these agencies until we see kind of the areas are fully vegetated um most often you you do see kind of that insitu natural Restoration in some cases uh you know perhaps where um a mat has kind of um compacted into the soil a little bit you may have uh once the mats are removed uh crws will kind of hand rake to um loosen up the compaction of the soil and in those areas if you don't see the vegetation growing within a year or so they'll apply a a seed um put some straw or Mulch on top of it and then uh eventually that that area will kind of grow up after about a growing season so all of these sorts of uh insitu restoration um um conditions are are within that that letter outlined in that letter and so this this is just for where we have the construction matting um with respect to the these this area where they're going to be removing trees um this one's a little bit different because uh with the exception of where kind of these these construction mats for the work area kind of come into that existing Tree Line uh the crews the the forestry Crews that will come in to remove um you know the T the trees that are too tall um would be in conflict with the line uh they will have matting on the edge of the um that forested edge and they'll have H Crews kind of walking in um they'll have people using hand tools or they'll have Machinery that has a grapple that's able to kind of reach in um and remove the you know the Fallen or the trees so you don't see a loss of the understory vegetation um it's a very minimal footprint of of work taking place within that that Woods I did want to show um as well kind of what that understory looks like so here's some pictures taken um in May of that understory vegetation so the the blue markers on these are indicate kind of the trees that are above that 6 in dbh so the crews will walk in um they'll remove these you know generally by kind of Chainsaw or or hand tools um any of the trunks that fall uh we don't leave those so we'll we'll take those put those in the back of a truck um and take them off site uh maybe some of the brush the leaves will leave on site to you know to grade naturally in the W Wetland so most of the understory vegetation when they use the hand tools is retained and so you don't have kind of um it's not moan it's not cleared you don't have a truck that's going to come through and just clearcut the entire area it's all selectively cut and because you're retaining that understory vegetation there isn't as much a need for for natural restoration for planting for um you know it within these areas they'll still be monitored um as with kind of any of the areas where Cruise will be working because that is part of our permit conditions um but it's it's an init restoration here do we have any questions at this point I'm I'm happy to keep talking but if there's any questions please just let me know I had a question uh Tony looks like he has a question I have a question um as part of restoration are are you bringing in any top soil or or clean fill from off off the property no we don't bring in top soil or clean fill because um we there's not excavation in these areas there's not digging and if there is any compaction for where the mats are you just kind of um you know use rakes or hand tools to release that compaction so there's no new top soil prod in because technically that would be a fill in a wetland under some of our other permits and is not not allowed where we may and in this case I I don't believe it's the case but in where there's kind of this new structure going in um you know that's that's a little bit more of an intensive construction activity they will drill out the um the foundations um and when they do that they'll have uh kind of spoils from the drill which they'll put in containment on the matting uh um they're but even then they're not going to use any sort of um top soil or additions to the soil they'll just kind of seed the area around uh where there's been a little bit more disturbance okay thank you sure so I'll just follow up on Tony's questions and then ask my own uh do you segregate the soil and um hoping to keep the seed bank at the top when you refill in this case no because the um they're what they do is they get a lot large um kind of Culvert it's a large pipe and they'll set that and then they they drill from right within inside the pipe so the the actual area of excavation is exactly where the foundation will go and it's not kind of outside of that footprint so there's not a need to segregate the soils because that's it's the it's all the work all the drilling is within the footprint of the foundation so this this is the one area of kind of permanent fill that we've accounted for in our our application and then that soil that's taken out uh uh is what happens to that I kind of lost track I thought it would go right back in the hole but where where does it go it it can't go back in the hole because that's where the foundations are so um we we don't spread it in the um in the in the wetlands because that's again that would be a fill so generally what they do is they take it kind of um to an Upland area and spread it in an Upland area um you know with within the right of way also outside of 100 you know outside of buffer zones River area any of kind of the the Upland buffer zones my other question was uh that picture there's trees that are on 6 in DV8 but there's a lot of Woody vegetation some species will grow I don't know if you go through once a year or every three years or something like that will the forestry uh group when they go through there will they be iding um you know trees that would grow taller and also cut those out at that same time so we're we're we're cutting out anything right now that's going to grow uh I don't know over let's say 12 feet the the um so what what they're cutting out now the the actual the height of the the the trees that they'll remove is it's not a fixed height it's dependent upon you know within that that area how close the tree is to the line what species the tree is so you know Cedars are a very slow growing species so if you have a 12T Cedar you know that cedar is not going to be in Conflict for the line for you know possibly decades so they're not going to remove that cedar that's 12 feet high because it's not in Conflict um they only remove the trees once they're they're in Conflict um and with you know some a picture like this um you know this this Woody under story this is not something that they're going to remove um every time they go through what their their kind of vegetation management um there are trees potentially that will are not removed in this cycle that they'll come through and remove one or two in you know later years and later Cycles as they come in conflict with the line and that's kind of that selective tree removal it's it's not you know a removal of every tree it's only ones that are in conflict with the line at the at the you know at the present moment there are some that may have the potential to be you know in Conflict within the next few years that are removed as well yeah that judgment they have to do yeah same rml was the same judgment um uh just getting back to that first question so you'll remove the fill around the foundation and then spread it out over the Upland and then you said it was seated just want to make sure I get that or not or it's this left um it it depends on the soil so sometimes this you know if you're if it's a subsoil um you know out of a foundation typically there's no seed bank in that so they won't um and if it's spread in an area they will throw down an Upland seed um where you know there's there's not really a seed bank okay all right I mean they can't our our our Nifty permit our Construction general permit we can't have you know large areas of bare soil um and if if you don't have soil with kind of a seed sock or seated soil it's it's not going to grow you're not going to meet your permit conditions so those would be seated what would be on the um uh you know RFQ or whatever the whatever the contractor looks at is would that be seed if needed seed over a certain you know over let's say 100 square feet H how would I'm trying to make sure that when I rewrite this like in a in a condition or support this in a condition that I have it correct sure so um I mean it's it's it's seed um you know bare soils or you know it's it's basically bare soils so um I will say you know within reading itself because the entire Wetland is or the entire area is within Wetland we will not be um you know removing any spoils and putting them within within reading you know they they would more than likely be placed in Uplands and in Linfield or some of the surrounding towns in some cases the contractors take them off site and take them to a disposal site so they're not they're not always spread in upins so it sounds like there won't be a conflict if I said seed uh soil no not at all that's that's our standard practice okay are there any other questions before we let shaa continue okay sh her back to you sure so I think so kind of the the next line of questioning that that Chuck had was you know what what happens if natural restoration doesn't doesn't work it doesn't take um with these uh there there's kind of two different um Wetland complexes within within reading here uh kind of these you've got a little bit more of a a wet Meadow and then as you go a little bit further toward uh North reading this is a very you know permanently flooded um Marsh um here by structure in 94 so in the permanently flooded Marsh um restoration it's it's typically not a problem and in in this case this is actually a very large fragm might's Marsh so it's typically not a problem that uh you wouldn't get Restoration in these other areas where you've got a little bit more of a wet Meadow um if you don't see restoration within you know natural restoration from the seed and and um kind of root stock that's there um we would spread seed uh at the beginning of the next growing season and monitor it throughout the year um if you still don't see restoration by the end of the year I mean I think that's when we come back to uh some of the permitting agencies um where we we have permits and talk about um you know what could be a potential solution here um and propose some additional additional plants um that is very very rare where natural restoration especially when you just have matting kind of flattened down on top of the um the vegetation it's very rare that that occurs but that's kind of those next steps um within this uh this you know this wooded area we'll be taking out uh the larger trees um you do have that understory layer um if we do have these kind of matting um these work areas with in that um that wooded area again you you you have the matting goes right on top of the vegetation so they they lay it in a manner where it just lays the vegetation over you take it back those mats back up and the the vegetation kind of Pops back up um in some cases if you have Woody vegetation that's just a bit too thick to you know to bend over with the matting they'll they'll cut those and we'll be on the hook for kind of making sure that those um those Woody plants reestablished in that area um if after the first growing season or or two growing Seasons uh with some of the Woody vegetation would be in that same sort of uh approach the kind of the Regulatory Agencies you know this is not this is failing to establish you know we we'd come up with the some of the reasons why um you know perhaps um I and perhaps there was a little bit of soil disturbance so so it it Disturbed the underlying root and Seed stock so there might be some areas where um we talk about a planting but for the most part these these areas kind of established within the first year within the first growing season just the reading area um what would you you said there's a lot of fragm mites out there is there can you give us a percentage uh uh as you get toward the um North Reading border uh within kind of those open areas uh within the right of way the the the current kind of cleared extents of the right of way you know I'd say this is almost 100% out here um as you get a little closer to kind of the Lin Linfield side of reading uh around kind of this proposed structure 95 and the existing structure 95 there's an awful lot of Buckthorn uh within the the the right of way and most of the understory within the the wooded areas is also um uh European Buckthorn so fair you know a very high percentage of existing invasives in this area already um you can kind of see that through uh you know some of these photos as well you know a good amount of this vegetation shown as Buckthorn there was a little bit of um blueberry um some some other species in here um but but an awful lot of Buckthorn right thank you do you have anything more you want to discuss sha um I think that might have been most of the kind of the questions about Restoration in in the letter um Chuck I don't know if I I hid all your points or if there was anything else uh that um let's see we talked about species yeah so invasive species um with a with a linear corridor there's it's it's ex especially when you have a very large uh population of existing invasive species eradication is not possible it's not a feasible option you know when we only have the rights to you know to remove within a linear Corridor even if you spend 10 years treating and get rid of every bit of Buckthorn and um you know frag species of fragm is within the linear Corridor the minute you walk away that all those invasives are going to reach colonize so when invasive species um with Within These existing corridors the invasive species control actions the invasive species plan are um more about um stopping the introduction of you know new or or other invasive species that are not currently present within the RightWay extents or on the the outsides uh so the parts of the invasive species plan um that are kind of all found within National Grids environmental guidance documents is uh the Machinery that's coming into these these areas I mean this is this is all Wetland so it's not so much the Machinery as the matting the contractor that's installing this matting has to certify that they have um they're installing clean mats so clean mats means there's you know there's no soil there's no plant matter there's there's you know nothing kind of hanging off of the mats uh when they put them in into these areas they also have to certify if they're moving mats from one location of the project to another that those mats are cleaned off um the there's visual inspections by the uh the monitors that are out on site as well just making sure that the you know the mats don't AR don't have um kind of plant matter or um are muddy muddy mats um and then in the post construction monitoring uh the Environmental monitors who are going through um kind of looking at these areas for insit restoration are also observing for population you know new populations of invasive species we know that there are uh both fragm and buck throne in this area if purple loose strife you know starts popping up then um if it's a small population that we observe in the moment and are able to remove by hand you know right away right away uh you know the the crews will notify NEP you know if it's if it's our environmental monitor it's one or two plants you know they'll remove it it right away um if not then we'll work with kind of um an invasive species control kind of vendor to come out and and remove kind of the smaller populations um if if it's a little bit more uncontrollable then um we'll work with the commission you know we'll we'll note that you know there's there's a population now of um you know loose strife in here uh we'll work with commission on an appropriate an invasive kind of treatment plan if if kind of hand pulling right away is is uh not not a viable option if it's not if it's not working to control the spread of that invasive species uh within kind of these very large Wetland areas um you know we we would talk about potentially um you know an application of herbicide if it if it's applicable you do have a lot of restrictions because it is a wetland and it's in natural heritage area so it would be just kind of a combination of different control methods depending on the species found so the the description you just gave um is a little bit different than the written response that was provided um it sounded like in in your response tonight y you mentioned that you you would um after the Project's completed you'd have your monitors go through and and and pull out vegetation invasive vegetation that is starting to to reestablish um but in the written response it it doesn't sound as thorough as that it it says that um uh you would do an inspection and you would hand pullar dig but only if you can get the whole root mass and only if the plants are very young and then there's a statement that says but this isn't really effective or practical once a stand becomes established and I think one thing the commission is worried about is making sure that those stands do not become established making sure that the native vegetation has a fighting chance to um to restore itself later on in the response um to say that if a more comprehensive control it's needed and you'll develop and submitted a new plan to the commission um what what would trigger that so that's that's triggered basically if if we go out and it's we don't see you know a small population of young plants that can be pulled immediately by hand you know if we happen to go out because we we do do those quarterly inspections um between say end of June um and end of September and there's you know there's a a newly established population of of I'm going to use loose strife again um and and hand pulling is not um you know in the Judgment of the environmental monitor on site you know hand pulling is not going to be effective that if they start pulling plants and there's fragments left it's it's only going to keep spreading that's when you know they would lar NEP and we come up with a plan for um eradication um if the plant you know if the plants aren't young if they don't fall kind of within this first description and then at what point would you just throw your hands up and say this isn't working anymore if I mean if it's if it's a new population um that of of invasive species that are that have not been documented on the site you know prior to construction uh then you know we're working with you on a on a multi-year kind of population control to make sure that you know that that small population that's been introduced is eradicated so it's if it's the fragm is coming back in are you even going to are you even going to to attempt to to remove it so that that's the that's the um kind of the the feasibility if we if we have this constru you know this this matted pad here pull the pad up that what's what's going to come back is the fragm mies because that's uh what's completely colonized this area so if if we try to eradicate fragm mites just from within this work pad where it's already 100% of the you know the vegetation coverage that's uh it's just it's just not feasible because you'll eradicate it from here and then within the next next couple of years the fragm myties will just completely take it over again so we are only proposing to eradicate you know new species that have come um into the RightWay following construction so something that's not been documented there already if it's already there and it's you know pervasive throughout the area there's there's there's not much that we can do to to remove it to eradicate it because it's at the extense where we don't have the ability to control it and because of just the size of the population unfortunately so can I follow up on that for a second yeah so I understand the point you're making my question would be if in fact you're kind of accepting that an existing invasive species would likely uh spread and take over again then in fact it doesn't give any native vegetation a Chance wouldn't it be better for the native vegetation if you tried to control the spread of already existing species long enough to give the natives um a chance to establish so I'm not trying to eradicate it I get that but keeping an area that doesn't have them keeping that clear enough that the native vegetation can do something so so kind of using this example of this mat pad again we're we're not when we put the matting in we are not disturbing the underlying soil so we're not kind of we're not grating or digging up that that soil or the plant matter that's there in order to established kind of a you know a soil surface where we could seed and put in you know native vegetation it's matting that goes directly on top of the vegetation so when you when you pull the mats up you know that that vegetation is is underneath is is um you know both alive and and dead because in some cases you do have kind of the the fragm mies growing up through the the matting throughout the year so to you know to try and overseed you know where you all already have an a Very wellestablished population of of frag mighties it it's not the frag mighties it's invasive the nature of it is it it just takes over all of the natives so trying to Seed where you already have this very wellestablished um fragm is is is is not effective but you'd have to go in and remove the top foot of top soil or however deep and then and then make sure you're removing the root masses as well right and and so it you know if you were to remove the top soil it it's you know this this is a very it's a flooded Marsh area so removing the top soil is a is is a messy Endeavor if you were able to remove the top soil able to kind of remove that seed bank and able to you know put in new top soil you still have the frag mighties in the surrounded community so even if you did have you know you you were to work for 10 years to establish a native Community here it's the nature of invasives the nature of frag mighties you know to to get those rise you know the romes and and take over to kind of drown out all of the the natives in the in the area in the area where the new structure is going in when you where you have uh Doug and I understand the fact that you're putting in that tube in I'm not sure if there's going to be any new soil around it or exposed soil but if there was what would be the case there is still the same is it so much of the surrounding area has buck Thorn and and fragm mighty that it's it's not an exercise that will you know deliver any fruit so we they they will seed and that's um kind of gave an example of the the seed mix in the at the end here the they will seed with um you know a wetland seed mix this is an example that comes from New England Wetland plants there's there's a couple of the Distributors that have these these native seed mixes um you know with within the first growing season or so you you will have you know those uh those that herbaceous vegetation grow up um but the you know the existing um invasives that are in the area will eventually kind of take over at the at the base of that pole so it's Buckthorn and frag Mighty any if anything that's going to be something that's newly established so what one of the things that we'll do um before we go out there is we we can do you know resurvey when we did a categorization of the vegetation when we did the delineations um you know we can we will be red delineating this area is is uh to refresh some of the flagging um we can have our delineation teams go out and Survey the area just to make sure that we've kind of capture the extent of the the invasive populations you know where they are um and if it's if it's just the frag mighties and the Buckthorn if there is something else there okay um I will have something to say later but I want the rest of the commission to um have first dibs if you will so have said that do any other Commissioners have questions comments observations yeah I have I have a few questions about the Alternatives analysis sorry um it looks like you considered the no action alternative um the critical asset repair alternative and then and then the proposed project and you know the no action that that speaks for itself the critical asset repair is a a very targeted repair of um just small sections of along the alignment um it seems that there might be something in between that and in the proposed project where you're not so much focused on on the infrastructure itself but limiting limiting the impact to the to the vegetation instead of uh cutting all the trees that that are above a certain height is there an opportunity just to to trim that back a little bit so to speak um removing certain branches that might be encroaching um rather than a wholesale cutting of of an entire tree down to the stump so they I mean they they will selectively clear within this area you know when we tagged out the approximate like 550 that was an estimate of what's actually there they're not going to cut all 550 and and not just that but they you know they have the opportunity to create snags in this area um there is an opportunity in some cases to you know to top some of the trees that's possible with a cedar um to top it and you know it has a few years of of of growing um there are some trees uh that'll be kind of on that Outer Edge uh that are that's still a tree but because of the species the current height it's you know doesn't pose a threat to the line so it's not going to be a whol sale they cut everything within there that's you know that's that certain height um but it is going to be most of the trees specifically on that kind of you know the map North side of the the rway so there there is some opportunity um to keep some some there uh just to you know to trim off some of the branches that might be overhanging uh but you know the species such as the the white pines uh that grow very tall very quickly and you know have a they they break and fall over especially in in a in a storm you know they they have a little less flexibility with those than they do maybe in Oak where you've got one overhanging branch in One Direction and you know kind of one in the other so it's it's it's very dependent upon what what's out there and where it is do you have a sense of of of how this project through changes of a vapo transpiration may may affect the hydrology of the area in in the short and long term um the so kind of you can you can make those calculations on on much larger scale projects in this case we have a combination of um it's a it's a small area uh you know when you're when you're looking at making those calculations they're you're typically talking about in the you know the Acres of of trees and not as much kind of in that you know that that sub acre like you have here um and you don't have you don't have the loss of the the underst story so it's it's going to be a change in the community in terms of like the rates of a vapo transpiration you know um I I don't I don't have a way to give you an accurate number or or even um you know how to calculate that even qualitatively when when you see a loss of kind of that that canopy you do get it you know a much thicker higher growth of that understory shrub layer so you know you you you have one kind of vegetation layer um replace the other so the loss of the you know that overhanging canopy can mean that sometimes you'll you know where you have these this understory with just a few leaves the minute that canopy is open you have you know a very large growth um of that that understory vegetation some you know smaller trees will start to to grow up through there so you just you do have a replacement of like the general vegetation Mass it's not as tall um but but it is prolific kind of once once you see that the sun on on this layer here kind I'm in a qualitative sense so if if there are any changes to the to the H you know to the hydrology either resulting in in a wetter area or through this Mass proliferation a drier area until they get shaded out by by older trees as they grow in the future um you know how how long do you think it would take to return to existing conditions or is it something that you know that even the temporary change is negligible the temporary change is negligible this this whole this area is a very very large Wetland so you know in terms of you know losses or gains of of you know or changes at all in in hydrology it's it's not it's not much considering the size of the Wetland and because you do have that retained under story you know the the um the Wetland underneath um I'm going to go back to some of those pictures so you know you you have these it's a pit and Mound um uh Wetland kind of on the Eastern side of the rway on the western it gets a little bit more into that kind of that flooded Marsh this under story is going to continue to shade out this pit and mound area so you're not going to see you know a dramatic drying up of these these these pit and Mound areas because it will be shaded it will continue to be shaded out by this under story which is left intact you know I I think it would be a little bit of a different story if the entire area was kind of you know cleared down to the stumps but because it's retained here and and you will within that you know within that first growing season you will see kind of that you know prolific growth in the underst story um the shading isn't going to really change um you know on on the floor of this this the scrub shrub area and I'm you know this is um project experience and other other sorts of projects where we've had this kind of similar case you know the this is what we see is is kind of that explosion of growth on the on the under story um it's it's a change at kind of vegetation Community uh but in terms of kind of that that habitat you know the the hydrology of the Wetland um you do get a loss of canopy and some of the habitat features some of the you know um wildlife habitat features of a Tre of a forested edge into that kind of transitional scrub shrub um understory layer uh you know it's it's a different uh variety of food plants a different variety of kind of cover for small animals it it takes one sort of habitat and changes it into a different one so it's not really a loss so much as as a as a change and this transitional habitat um get a lot more a different variety of birds uh uh different food sources when you have this this kind of shrub under story and we did um we've done kind of habitat assess assessments for these these sorts of habitat changes and that's that's typically what the the answer is to these like the change in vegetation type provides a very different kind of habitat but it's it's just as valuable as what's kind of lost when you remove that treat canopy thank you anybody else any questions I have more comment than a question is um I I think I'm comfortable with where the matting is going to be put down that it will um restore to what was squished by the matting that will come back um my bigger concern is that long stripe where you're taking out the trees um so I would Echo Tony's thing of any trees that you can trim versus remove is good any snags you can leave is good but I'm still concerned that that's a lot of trees being taken out and no mitigation for that because as you say you haven't really got any place to do uh Wetland replication for example um so um you know th that's the part of the project that I have the most problem and I would really like to see that part of the project um maintained as richly as possible and you say the new habitat is just as value as valuable as the old habitat but um I would be very concerned if um the fragm and the Buckthorn next door moves in and takes over that space and um we've opened up the sun and it can all come rushing in um I understand you can't get rid of the fragm mites under the mats that you've put down but anything we can do to give the native vegetation a Fighting Chance where you're taking the trees out I would like to see yeah yeah and and you know understood on the on the mitigation like it it's understood that the you know the loss of trees is you know it's it's not it's not a small Endeavor um you know and in terms of of mitigation you know the there's not we're not we're not losing a wetland um you know the the Wetland is um there's the alteration is the loss of the tree but it's not the loss of the Wetland so they there will still be Wetland habitat there will still be that kind of that pit and Mound and there will still be vegetation um in in terms of kind of the the the native versus the um the invasive um you know again the we're we're we're not changing the underst story so because they're not coming through and and mowing what's existing what's already there whether native or invasive kind of currently you know that's that's already well established and we'll you know we'll stay where it is yes you'll see kind of that that flourishing because there's a lot more sunlight um where some of these these trees especially in the outer edge are removed um but they you know you're you're not really changing the composition of of that shrub layer because it's it's already there um you you know you have plenty of root and Seed stock for for what's there um you know for encouraging native versus invasive um you know we're by using hand tools that kind of that's that's part of that avoidance and Min minimization measure we don't have to come in and and and clear it out if I think if you were to cleared out entirely then then you would lose the ability for like for the natives to have a Fighting Chance because the you know the Buckthorn whatever is in there you know Will Will just reestablish over everything else kind of those those methods where they're walking in they're using hand tools they're selectively removing all of those methods are kind of that minimization that PR preservation of of what's there already and you were talking about quarterly monitoring will that quarterly monitoring check to see whether the bu Buckthorn and the fragm mites are invading into that space between the two dotted lines so the the quarterly monitoring will look at areas where we do have um you know matting coming down where we do have um any sort of flattening of that native you know that existing vegetation with a mat with a work pad with an Access Road um you know there there's it kind of it's as you're coming from the Lindfield side it's the entire their Edge we have um an access road we have some of that work pad so these are the areas where we'll be a little bit more focused in our in our monitoring to see how those areas are reestablished you know in some of the areas where we're just removing trees but not the understory you know that's that's not as much the focus of those monitoring reports um but in you know overall we will be noting kind of what's there what's established what's what's coming back for me what I would really like to see monitored is that area where you're taking the trees out is that just not feasible or is that just not practice we can I mean we can absolutely add this entire area to a monitoring report kind of a you know what's we we can report you know look at the conditions under here what's growing what's you know what the existing looks like and how that's that's leafing out what that vegetation Community looks like kind of post construction we could we could absolutely add that to a a monitoring session that quarterly monitoring report done there any other questions from commission members before I say something okay so Sean something I'd like to read um so this whole conversation is a discussion about a project that would alter 57 square feet of buffer zone and an acre of forested wetland itself and I choose the word alter on purpose according to section 10.04 of the Wetland protection act the definition of alter is to change the condition of any area subject to protection under chapter 131 paragraph 40 examples of alterations include but are not limited to the following a the changing the pre-existing drainage characteristics flushing characteristics solinity distribution sedimentation patterns flow pattern patterns and flood retention areas B the lowering of the water level or water table C destruction of vegetation D the changing of water temperature biochemical oxygen demand and other physical biological or chemical characteristics of the receive in water and then there's a provision having to do with herbicides so according to at least two of the four examples and we're now limited to these examples this project will alter the Wetland resource itself oh yes that's Undisputed yep having said that we recognize that this is a utility project that supports the common good we don't want to stand in the way of the work being done what we do insist on is treating the removal of 550 or more trees appropriately your proposal does not provide for mitigation for these trees that's what this commission is seeking what we are looking for is some way to compensate for the loss of those trees the protective cover they provide the temperature mitigation ation they ensure and the food sources they represent our first thought was the Shady Tree front which is now off the table however there are other ways ways that National Grid has employed before you may be familiar with the low area gas modernization project from back in 2021 in that agreement between National Grid Boston gas and the lower Conservation Commission you are offered a contribution to the low parks and conservation trust that facilitated the planting of 3,000 trees around the city over a few years time and offer in a similar vein that would allow the read and Conservation Commission to fill the mitigation rule that you are not filling would probably be met favorably by this commission although we would have to take a vote there would need to be a few conditions and restrictions applied but the actual wording could be finalized later um and this donation would be in addition to the fees that you've already laid out in your letter dated September 10th of this year every thoughts on that um so just so so to to clarify um the so in our letter um we laid out kind of the the fees um that are the full amount of fees and then kind of the um New England power came up with a with an offer um so to to clarify uh we have the wetlands protection act fees which are already paid um we are for the loss associated with this um this structure so that's um about 57 square feet um and it's just as a correction it's actually within it's not in buffer zone this is actually within BBW so um we did offer to compensate um in Loof fee there is no area within this right of way where we could replicate Wetlands because the entire RightWay in Reading is a wetland so we offered an inlo fee payment for um kind of this the construction of this uh of of this structure and and that was uh totaled I think 11,400 um based on uh the cost generally to replicate kind of a wetland at that that two: one um and I I believe on top of that in the letter we had talked about um offering an additional um was this the additional um uh amount for kind of the uh a bylaw um filing fee is the is the commission saying that this is um acceptable kind of these the this the the offer and the letter with the kind of that additional over the 11,400 going toward um tree plantings in the city or in the in the in the town so what I'm saying is that um if National Grid were to offer something um to the conservation fund that we could use um to do plantings in our jurisdictional area around town to make up for the fact that you can't or aren't doing restoration as part of this project I think the commission would look on that in a good light although we have to actually vote it's nothing we've discussed obviously that would been you know a violation but I'm putting it out there with something that I think makes sense from our perspective to get the plantings we need sure and at the same time would be something you guys have done in the past okay so so we we did have you know we' propose that you know we we haven't changed the compensatory mitigation fee but we did propose that you know that that 24,750 is a kind of that permit review cost but that could be the um so you seeing like that that could be that you know for the commission to to use to to plant trees within the the um kind of within the the area so I'm saying an additional separate amount yeah that would be targeted for use by the commission for planting trees in our jurisdictional area that we would have control over where when what kind get planted um and that on top of the things you just enumerated I think is something that we would consider strongly hang on Chuck has something to say so there's there's so I I understand that there's the tree fund which won't work in this case because um Brian is asking for any additional donation and I guess the letter that we found in and at LOL kind of says at all we we would like to and it I don't know if that 14,000 was um able to pay for all the trees or all the disturbance that happened at that project but I think that it probably went a long way so a fund we have funds that the commission's in control of and with a statement by BSC or NEP um on the contract contribution saying that it could be up to the commission for trees for tree work within the jurisdictional area um I think that's all I wanted to add to this so um but the other thing that I did want to add is Brian you're not asking for compensation of all 550 trees right no no I mean uh not at all that that um large numbers were floated in the past we never thought that something that would be could be fulfilled so we're looking for something uh in addition to the 58 and change uh that you have enumerated here something on top of it go into a conservation fund that we can use to to provide mitigation sorry I'm just writing this down useful thing did you did you see the part um and I think I glossed over that can you put up the uh how you broke down the fees again some so I I'm G I'll put that up now sorry just trying to find the right button um yeah you know I will note that I I am not able to you know I'm not in a position to to negotiate for New England power but I can certainly bring back any sort of uh requests to the the New England Power Team understood yeah um sh uh just just so you know the Conservation Commission does not are not we're not in control of our our fees that you make into the bylaw fee so that so anything that you've separated into a bylaw fee the fees that we came here to not negotiate but to to ask for a waiver and that's what we're doing we're discussing that now those go to the general fund um and I think that's why Brian this would be the only money that the commission receives to do any uh tree Associated work uh which Brian is asking uh for NEP to consider that's correct and I apologize for not making that clear okay okay I I will I will bring that back to New England power company I'm sorry I can't provide an answer tonight I I understand um so let me just make sure I understand this you've got the 24,000 and some permit review costs that's sort of a flat amount that goes to help pay for um ch salary and other things related to that but you've also got the reduced bylaw filing fee at 50 cents per square foot and are you saying Chuck that that is going straight into the general fund so that reduced 50 Cent per square foot filing fee is not something so out of all all of this money the only thing the Conservation Commission is allowed to be in charge of is half a little more than half $12.50 above the half of the $500 that is paid to the state fees the rest will go into the general f and I I also think so that we don't sound like people are going to say well 54,000 58,000 blah blah blah the fees based on R um It also says that in the letter the fees total up to $626,000 if you followed our um fee schedule here now again everyone agrees a reduction should have been made on on that amount of money this is a utility project it's for the public good all of that um and I think it's it's right for the commission to consider a reduction a deep reduction as a matter of fact uh has been presented in front of us but I do think that what we're talking about is the one thing that the commission would like to be in control of is if if any Peak H replant in that area if if the same consideration could be given to the reading Conservation Commission as was given to the L Conservation Commission for their tree fund okay so so um so so for clarity the 11,400 is a mitigation fee the bylaw filing fee was that you know that 21,6 se0 is the with the 24,750 be that kind of that um tree replanting no because that's permit review costs right so what you've got up there doesn't give us any tree replanted well well right I assume the 20 so when I was kind of saying there's nothing here for the conserv if if you re named it if so did we make all the fees is there so there's the mitigation fee I don't know what this is it's just a reduction of all the fees so the fees are listed up top and I guess we'd have to come out with um so let me take another cut at this um so the table at the top of the page where you list the fees that is a listing of our fees um if they were paid in full um obviously when you get to the large number of trees and the large square footage that's involved with this project or any other projects of this size that number becomes prohibitively large we never asked for that amount of money we were discussing what the fees say um so in light of the fact that those numbers are so large in light of the fact that this is for utility um we certainly um want to be open to a much smaller number um you know and Chuck has mentioned the 14,000 that was donated to L which was nice um I didn't say a number in particular because I would like any to come back with an offer of their own that takes into account the fact that our fees could amount to 626 and we're not asking for anything near that but I would like you folks to um come back with an offer and it would be above and beyond the amounts that are listed in the paragraph form at the bottom of the same page and that money would be uh focused to a fund that we could control that we could Target uh towards replanting around town so if nothing to do with the required fees or anything this is something where we would like to have some money that we could use to do mitigations replanting whatever was needed around town and we're hoping that you people would do the donation in L with the fact that you uh can't do mitigation on site so and I think just to tie it back into the WPA I'm going to say that that seems to be what we're talking about when um this limited project status provide Wetland restoration to the maximum extent practical and I I I think that we're looking for you to meet that standard Under The Limited project um 10533 and since you can't provide mitigation for the trees that are being removed on site this is where the request comes from offsite uh or I mean you could even put a time limit on it I I think that's what what it was in um they said by 2025 I think we like an additional couple of years but um it would be it would be good to have something set aside to meet that standard to do offsite um planting okay I I will I will take this back to New England power company thank you so having said that it's clear that um this project probably should be continued um do you agree with that yes that's the uh the 25th if that's when you thought you could have an answer by that would be great yeah and um your answer should go to Chuck and then he will distribute as necessary and it's up to you whether it's a letter or an email letter is always more formal and good all right uh can I just follow up you so I had um my list and I just want to make sure that I can get these the commission um would like to condition this area as a uh herbicide free zone do you think that would be a problem so the um the vegetation management that will go forward on this right of way and and is currently performed on this right of way is um actually have these written down there there's a couple of different kinds of regulations that go through rights of w management uh the the primary one is is actually through the department of food and agriculture it requires that um New England power kind of Greater National Grid has a vegetation management plan um that lays out when they will and won't use herbicides uh herbicides generally in in some cases they are allowed in Wetlands depends on the species depends on the Wetland what else is there uh so the the RightWay will be managed in accordance with that that vegetation management plan it's a five-year vegetation management plan that is sent to the Department of Agriculture every five years um renewed every five years um it's also subject to uh components of the wetlands protection act they're um it's 310 CMR 103 six that goes through herbicide use um so in general like we will be following vegetation management uh plan their their Cycles they their kind of yearly um you know every five year every 10 year Cycles um in particular this area is a flooded Wetland and it is within a natural heritage uh species area so there are very heavy restrictions on the use of herbicides through that vegetation management plan and through the regulations for rights of way management um there may be select applications where herbicide use is warranted in this kind of a wetland you know I I can think of like with Buckthorn you cut the uh you know you cut the stem and you actually use like a little Dabber to dab herbicide on uh on buckthorne I'm not saying that we're going to be going through and treating buckthorne um but just generally like it's not absolutely restricted but in this area it would be heavily restricted and not likely that um new power would use herbicide um but the regulations kind of are um are through uh Department of sorry Department of food and Agriculture and the Wetland protection act yeah I I so I a little bit more into it so um so we got our letter back from uh natural heritage and they declared this particular area an amphibian Zone I didn't know if that was new information and typically we uh like when keis comes through and whatnot we can we can identify areas that are herbicide free and that's not um and we may be in the middle of a plan right now but I know the commission would either gets to review it yearly or every five years Y is that opportunity available to set this aside as a herbicide free zone just in this area that you're you're doing the cutting in now that we now that the commission knows it's uh just been identified as INF fibian Zone the the order of conditions for this because it's a you know that the order of conditions is three years um I would suggest is not the appropriate form for a no herbicide because it's not an in perpetuity Condition it's just for the areas that are um you know are are regulated under like this particular order um you know the commenting on the vegetation management plan that does come through kind of every five years is is probably the more appropriate Forum because the the vegetation management uh plan is typically exempt from most you know from Wetlands protection act assuming that they um you know they're following kind of those avoidance and minimization practices and they do have that vegetation management plan in place do you know when that plan is uh up for Renewal I I I don't um but I do know that National Grid has it on their website yeah if you're coming back can you just f um so uh I had another question about all the reports generated is we would ask that you send those to the commission myself or whatever so that's okay um so the monitoring reports I'm sorry to interrupt do you mind the with the monitoring reports you know our teams will generate a single monitoring report that's for the entire uh right of way so if they're working in you know sagus or or tuxbury or Wilmington the report covers is kind of the all areas inspected um and it it you know it may or may not be um within reading within a particular uh a week depending on kind of when the um when the crws when activity will be within reading uh would you prefer kind of have a a monthly you know compilation of of the monitoring reports when the crews are within reading or um you know be could be cced on all of the the individual inspection reports no I I I understand no um monthly would be fine [Music] okay that one and then U so I I did read something about seating and if all areas that are uh either mulched or seeded after 30 days it sounded like we talked about that and that that's probably fine also um and then I talked about some if there was top it doesn't seem like that would happen here but so the top soil documents there's there would be a discussion um between BSC and NEP and they're they're environmental people we don't want to be part of that discussion or choice but just to send us that information and then uh there was a comment about fertilizer and I was gonna say that that should be prohibited in this area and if that's okay then we'll just leave it at that but if it's not okay explain why you need to use fertilizer we won't be using fertilizer okay great that was the it that's all I had okay at this point then I need a motion to continue this to September 25th this Tony I move that we continue this project to September 24th uh 5th sorry September 25th something I didn't oh Serge second that Martha Mr toits in favor Tony wus in favor Jer in favor Mo in favor rainbow in favor okay shaa thank you for taking all the time tonight and uh all that great information appreciate it thank you shonah thank you for your time thank you thank you okay then the next hearing is uh continuation for 555 West Street the applicant has requested a continuance until September 25th we need a motion that move that we continue 555 West Street to September 25th I'll second that this is Martha Walter Talbots in favor in favor J in favor R Mo in favor Brian B in favor okay that's it for hearings tonight we move on to old new new business uh violation notices um is Michael Rivers present uh he said he'd be available after 8:30 after 8:30 we we seem to get here too fast so this is for uh an update on the status of 445 Pearl Street so when when Michael gets on we can come back to that um I think in the meantime I'll jump down to discussion items and I'll cover item four quickly which is certificate of compliance 452 Lanna Drive um Martha and I went out there for a site visit but more than a site visit it was to work through the replacement of the trees moving them around uh to a more appropriate pattern we met with the owner who came out there with us um and we talked through the process that we were um working against B understood we marked um Stakes where we wanted trees to go we put corresponding uh markers on the trees to be moved so they'll move the tree Mark number one to the Stak Mark number one for example U it won't get the full distribution um that we had talked about in the beginning but in general it's 12 15 ft or more some places 23 feet so it's certainly an improvement over the straight line of trees that was there before um Bob said he was going to try and have his people do it I think it was this week but it would depend on their availability either way we can't do anything about it tonight because we need a certain period to show some Sur viability so at this point it's just an update with no action needed and out of the 16 trees that they planted alternating Maple Oak Maple Oak we suggested moving five and leaving 11 in place we would have preferred more spread out but it's a balance of surviv ability of the trees the fewer we had to move the more likely they would survive so we moved a couple back towards the wood border and three up into the open space in the between the 25 and the 35 foot line so and the applicant was happy about it he seemed to be he seemed fully on board he was official number writer on the market so any from anyone from Hancock show up no just the three of us so it seems like how you left it was the trees will be moved and one year of um review for survivability a year from whatever day they're planted and we we notified commission would go back out I mean apparently would be about this time next you know whatever next year and issue that certificate of compliance think so are you with that if that's the plan that sounds fine yeah and he's aware that a certain percentage need toh survive in fact he said and he was told by Hancock that's why they planted so many on the assumption that some wouldn't make it yeah that's a good segue into my a request that I had um so I wanted to I I did notice as I was like reviewing orders of conditions and uh writing them up for people that are doing mitigation projects was wondering if we could um decide and and agree on what would be um the percentage of trees and shrubs that would survive and understory aous vegetation uh after the one two or three year period whenever it is so uh I've heard that a lot of um towns use 100% for the trees and 80% for shrubs and herbaceous and uh that would be my recommendation uh if if if you wanted to accept that I would make sure that that would be in every order moving forward or you can do what you've been doing which is we're doing mitigation you just come up with something but if consistent is easier to to you know remember those sound good to me anybody have any thoughts on it that's 100 for trees 80 shrubs or like I don't know like Ferns and like you know ground cover so ground cover would have to stay sufficiently cover it 80% level is that 80% survival of individual plantings or are you looking at it as all together package and the trees should survive I mean trees are more expensive I think everyone even the person that planted them would want them to survive after three years so 100% on the trees and then commission's out of it and they have a good chance to continue on no I think that makes sense and if we're using it for mitigation it's it's probably more important that they survive yeah that sounds good to me I think we've done 80 and 100 for some of the other it's come up before yeah but I saw one that was 60 and 80 that SS low it does okay so yes please put that in there okay um is Michael on yet uh no I haven't uh that's fine I'm just wondering so then the next certificate of compliance was for 18 Whittier um went back there met the contractor um and talked over the ground cover situation he has since uh planted the ground cover and sent pictures to Chuck uh so at this point I'm in favor of plus um voting to have Chuck issued the certificate any thoughts the only question I have is the plants he put in have only been there a few weeks that's good point do we issue now or was there a survivability condition for them should we wait and see how the plants survive so next year what I thought was that this didn't come up this planting area um where're we're talking about didn't come up in the order of conditions it was came up when you guys went out there and looked and said this area needs to be planted also so I think this was um an area of disturbance that occurred during the project that wasn't known about when we wrote the order of conditions so I don't know if that helps to think of it uh in that way so that would imply having planted them we trust that the owner is going to take good care of his plants and we write off we approve the certificate of compliance I think I it's always up to the Conservation Commission yeah so but I I I I get what you're saying and I think I'm comfortable with that con what do you think I'm still thinking I couldn't tell I'm okay with this my my only concern is does this create a pattern where in the future someone could willfully leave out an impact area it's a way of short circuiting a appliance period for replanting I think as long as we were careful in being sure that the planting plan covered the appropriate area and we're getting more and more to a consistent view of that I think that would be harder to pull off is it a risk I think it's a slight risk but I don't think it's like was there was there a tree involved here that came down no uh there was a tree that was struggling to the back left that in the original meetings we had said he could take down and they hadn't um but he was glad to know that they could yeah this wood chip areas to the back right and maybe the ground was Disturbed when they put the new vinyl fence in I think it used to be a garage that's where if you if you go over far enough yeah that's the one where we dug the foundation on yeah you're right there was a garage on that side of the property in which case I'm surprised we didn't put it in the conditions that it need needed to have vegetation and a survivability but we missed that one as I said we're getting more consistent okay having said that does Walter have anything see a hand up Walter did you have any thoughts was the one who insisted upon the ground cover I'm fine okay okay so can I have a motion to authorize Chuck to issue the coc for 18 Wier I'll move to ask Chuck to issue a certificate of compliance for w 18 wer seconds in favor tus in favor J licker in favor Martha Moore in favor Rainbo in favor okay as Michael joined us uh no yeah it's yeah it's for I did send him an email that's fine I want to keep asking just just a few minutes ago I said we're ready when you know I think he was unavailable until 8:30 and so since it's only 8:34 got some minutes could approve um well shorter would be the conservation meeting anything to review there take notes on that don't remember at this point sorry what meeting was that the DPW conservation coordination meeting that was on election today 30 have from it do you remember anything nothing significant do you remember anything uh yeah so Michael's here um so this was the one that uh Mike Hanford wanted to um make sure that the chairs of the Conservation Commission knew that uh in the pollinator Garden across the field from the pollinator like it's football field so the other the other goal poost the pollinators over here that um Phil Phil Perkins who's been doing all the work on the pollinator noticed some pretty aggressive um invasive species out there and he asked that we got them mowed down prior to um uh them going to seed and so that was all fine and and that got taken care of but I think that Mike wanted to bring it up just to make sure because you had uh wanted no mowing within the casine field area that actually happened before the meeting but you're right he brought it up kind of as a review and weren't we talking about whether we could get some soil for Phil Perkins to plant more pollinator plants in that area where they didn't survive we were yeah so anyone who all of our audience which is basically rctv and Michael Rivers uh is here too um so the DPW said you know I asked for three things so when I asked for Phil Perkins and I asked for this new pollinator Garden I said uh Phil Perkins has discovered that there's four inches of top soil and other than that there's Stone and every time he's trying to dig he's got to take out 25 30 stones out of these holes just to get them deep enough so something will grow and he he just can't do that and so he asked well can we do a couple of things so what we decided on is if the the town has a Turf conditioner and it could chew up the grass and we asked for that to run over this area that's about six foot wide by about the whole length the whole half circle of the back of the yeah I don't know if that's 70 feet or 120 feet or something like that so to chew that up and then to bring some soil from the compost area and dump it off and just spread it out so there's another 4 in on top of the 4 Ines that's there he'll felt like that was acceptable but the DPW is very busy and they have their own projects too and so we were only able to convince them to drop off soil in piles and piles and so I've kind of left that there but I am trying to run into people that have back hose and Machinery that would spread it out for us and I I have a few in mind but I haven't run into them and because I I think it's just too much for like someone with a wheelbarrow to do I mean even if I got some volunteers out there I mean so I was wondering 10 or 20 yards of soil convince them to dump it into more smaller piles so they be less distance yeah yeah let's dump it into yeah well okay you can take that to an extreme talking about not one or two big piles but no I think that's what I was thinking there would be and again you know you gotta can't can't be crazy but yeah if there was like seven piles out there e you to rake out without having to to rake out so but we're still looking for someone with a I don't know with a with a Green Thumb you're going back to Summer Street summer oh this I don't remember I you know I did reach out to somebody once and said they had they had it and then when I called them up they they thought that we would pay them just a miscommunication between the dad and the son the son was really angry that I even asked so some street he actually has not something that would spread it out yeah um and I think also there was some conver ation about the how often it gets mowed and the equipment getting stuck in the mud so if we don't mow casting field as often as they used to they have to use heavier equipment and and it's harder right they're going to try it stays wet so it's muddier so the equipment they use his molecular get stuck if it gets mowed frequently it's drier and they have more opportunity I think we solved that though I don't I think that the comment was it's a it is wet well hell sorry sorry everybody well heck it's a wetland okay it shouldn't be mode it shouldn't be anything it should be left alone but um um this is the this is the agreement that we've been living with for many many years so this is will continue on and it has to get mowed so the chairs I came up with an understanding I offered it to the chairs the chairs agreed we just told the DPW anytime after what was it SE September yeah anytime from September on they're free to cut anytime that's dry enough or they feel like it's dry enough so that should give them sufficient dry days to get out there to to not sink in right saying they cut it because in the winter time that's flooded and used for skating yeah and if you let the plants grow overseas yeah SK skating is not as good but I think the issue was not just that you mow more often it's drier but if you mow regularly you use a different type of lawn mower with different size wheels and if you only mow once a year the grass is taller and you use a flil a flil mower that sinks in more so understanding the mechanics of the Machinery I think is part of what we need to learn I think it was great for the Conservation Commission uh We've we've been getting clo we've been getting closer to all of our groups and Recreation Trails Town Forest all that and just knowing Recreation I was able to ask them what's what's going on with Castine field and Jim Sullivan told me they don't program anything over there because it's too wet who would have thought so they don't so that means they don't need to mow it well Mike liked that Mike Hanford liked that because they're not spending time mowing it but it does create this one problem last year was our pilot project and it and it needs to be you know discussed and and thought about how the mowing is going to happen without sinking in but get it in time so they can flood the field so they can have skating out there all that they did it the last time now they have more time we know what the problems are we just have to figure out Solutions so I I do think we're on a good path and the only thing that I would add is if you know what what does stopping mean stopping mowing stopping letting it grow I think that the Conservation Commission and Recreation Department and DPW would be on different sides of that like this has always been on we've been on different sides we came to this conclusion that we're going to try to share this area and I think that's where we should be so that effort should be put into Mowing and um understanding that it's it's not as easy as any place because I mean really the the recreation department would probably want it as a field they probably need more Fields the Conservation Commission knowing that it's been delineated in the LA the last project as a jurisdictional wetland and it's been certified by the commission during our during our process we would probably want it left alone right so we we're we've landed in this middle spot compromise yeah okay shall we move on to Michael Rivers is here I'm gonna give him permissions to uh come on into our meeting Michael can you introduce yourself for a record yes I am Michael rivers of 445 PE street thank you for coming um let's try and get right to it can you give us a status update on how things are going I understand that you started on Saturday so why don't you elucidate okay Saturday I I uh place the silt sock around the perimeter for the drawings uh started staking that in place uh have Reed the um coconut clo logs I received the uh juk matting I've received um and the sil sock so I I do have the sourced I have sourced some the loom and the two two two to 4 inch uh like New York River Rock in the in the process of getting that scheduled for delivery so which will probably be the beginning of next week okay um so Marthur and I stopped by uh one amongst the number of site visits we did um are you aware that there's significant undermining of the far Bank on the stream yes okay because if I recall the order of conditions both Banks were supposed to slope down to the stream and be stabilized did you have in mind yes yep so what is your thinking for dealing with that far bank and the undermining well the the base the the stream bed which it will be located proba the drawing shifting back over towards um our South slightly to match the drawing and uh we I believe the Northern Bank is a two to one slope or one and a half to one slope and the Southern Bank is a one either a one and a half to one slope or two to one slope so so when we were there um the stream bed was dry um and that allowed us to see at the bottom there's some fairly large rocks um and judging by where the rocks are and where the scouring is it is likely that the scouring is happening because the waterers surging over those rocks in periods of high velocity which means that the undermining is going to continue to happen um so I think it's going to take some thinking to actually manage to get a stabilized slope on the Northern side yeah so there's a a narrative that goes along with that drawing which uh from the engineers where they want to do the the coconut core logs are going to go uh for like a two foot stream bed and then a juk matting on the soils to the north and south of it for the river bank with some um seed for like retention funds and shot Ming and you think that I'll counteract the scouring driven by those rocks that are in the Stream bed I do yeah I think it's solid um I just was surprised how much more undercut that Northern Bank was than it was three years ago when we did the enforcement order so um it looks like it is going to be a bigger job for you to get that um up upper slope to have enough um substance soil rocks whatever to um support vegetation on that Northern slope so um I just would ask you to um do your best to recreate the stream bank that was there um before all this enforcement order happened and and get what you have in the plan that one and a half or two to one slope on either side so going back to the status um you've ordered some things that haven't come in yet what do the what do you think the next Milestone is uh well the next Milestone is having the soils in the um River well the river rock would kind of be towards the end but getting the soils in getting the core lo you know getting the the location of the stream bed the coil coil logs in place and then the soils and then get the um the tuings of the U Willow planted every foot get that establishing and when do you think that's going to happen um well this weekend I'm tied up with a shut down at the hospital for so it would probably be a week from this weekend which gives me some time to procure those other um products so a week from this weekend you're going to do what I'm GNA start with the with relocating that stream bed establishing that with the coconut coil logs yeah and work and start working on the embankment to plant the tub blings of the willow okay so I heard start and starting so when do you think you'll comp complete some something not the whole project but the next phase the next step that's going to be complete um well it'll be begin say a week from Saturday and and I guess is it would be a couple of weeks to get it where I'm planting the willow so you think so you're thinking mid October you might be done with that piece of the work I think mid October at the earliest mid to the end of October for that piece and then the like high density staking those The Willows those aren't really available till probably November typically from um Amherst from the Wetland plant plants so which is probably the best time to do that work anyway November so the high density staking will follow up after but the string bed and getting those Willows planted along the co coil logs would be I'd say mid to end of October should be reasonable like I'd like to have you come back for another status update um do you think you can make the first meeting in October that's the ninth the nth oh um just a double check because I am traveling because by then some of what you just described should have been completed right yeah you said it was the ninth it was the ninth yeah yeah I'm actually gonna be in I'm not going to be in I'll be traveling uh till the 11th that the week of the 7th to the 11th um about weeks after that so is it possible that wherever you are you could zoom in or I don't know what you're doing actually I'm visiting family out in Arizona okay that's fine I just thought I'd ask um so then the following meeting is the 23rd yeah that's not a problem okay so if you can put that on your calendar for an update on the 23rd um and hopefully you'll have a lot of good things to report sure Mike when you uh I had a couple questions when you uh do the core f machine logs uh you're anchoring them into the bank right you're not staking through them not the coil log will be staked either side of the coil log not through the coil log itself is is that a detail on the plan because I I've seen ink tied into the bank with wire uh most of the time I've seen this happen because the the anchoring will uh with the wire stays it's it's kind of like a uh small helical pile that you drive into the uh into the bank kind of like an augur but youve lassu the cor Coral log uh first and it holds it in place um some something to think about because I because I know those uh Stakes will rot in the Stream and the whole Pro point is that the uh the coconut hus log should be embedded you know after the work is done and things would grow into it and and kind of lock it into place but you want to give it time without moving it back and forth to uh to have that happen the second thing that I wanted to uh so so you may want to look into that second thing I wanted to let you know is that when you look at that Northern bag if you want to make any modifications uh can you reach out to me or um or even on the weekends I can get one of the chairs of some from the commission out there because there was some Sil similar situations that we had to kind of um fix at uh at a project in town that the DPW had to had to work on so it was planned one way but when you know the site conditions were kind of developed through the construction process we we had to modify it and so that that might be something that you may to do have to do in certain uh situations so don't be afraid to reach out to us so you can get an approval or at least discuss it oh absolutely yes yeah anybody else have anything to say should we plan to go by and check it out maybe October 21 when we do our usual round of site visits sure did you hear that Mike yep that sounds good yeah so we'll swing by and uh take take a peek sure okay all right good 23rd you'll return I'm assuming it's going to be after 8:30 not a problem and then October 21st the commission is just going to go out there and take a look yeah great all right thank you all right thanks for coming you're welome good bye which then brings us any administrators report no I'm good I is this the last couple of weeks was Mo mostly um National Grid at our next meeting we're going to have 87 markers BR Drive I did get the plans today but I didn't get it electronic version I got those tomorrow I'll put them up I did talk to the engineering department they will review the plans um and and write a memo with their thoughts on that um at the next meeting we also have to uh take a vote uh to accept lot five as the uh the town's going to declare it Surplus select board and it's going to go into the conservation commission's uh we're going to accept it and the reason why we're going to accept it is because we give it article 97 stat and it's protected and in perpetuity at that point the the area that's been crafted as a parking area will always remain if improvements happened in that area then that that's that's fine but I think the only improvements that were that were thought about would be um the Porta parties and so those are the what about stairs up the back that's been talked about yeah so that's that's on the dpw's list they're going to keep it on their list and they hope to get it done there's a couple of things it's the DPW is going to do the do those days before winter the erosion that's between stoud AV And this parking lot is also going to be taken care of they have a couple of ideas um I had a couple of ideas but we're gonna we're going to try it again to try to prevent that erosion um but nothing's going to happen until then there's a tree halfway down the path that's just right underneath wires and um and uh so rmld wanted to do some tree trimming out there I asked them specifically look at that tree I wanted it gone uh Matt from the DP from the rml also said they would they would would want it gone just because of where it's growing and uh so if Mike hand for agrees uh it can it can be taken out of there so hopefully that happen because what it does is our Ada path is kind of like almost it's not really Ada but it's it's it's more than uh 42 inches wide but it has a tree in the center of it in one spot and so we could get rid of that tree and the tree is underneath the wire so it's very opportunistic uh request anything else that's it okay on to approving minutes we have a list to approve um first of all uh 626 is there any reason not to approve those speak now or forever hold your peace I haven't seen them yet yeah I just thought I would ask it's gonna say those are uh those are almost done I probably need another two meetings let's see if I can get it done the next meeting okay note to self never going to see those um it's probably true but not okay the next one get a summer intern maybe that'll happen July 10th any reason not to re approve those anybody not everybody has read them all right all comments been submitted anything you want to bring up here I did spell one of the applicants names wrong but I got it right in the next meeting okay so can we approve that can I have a motion to approve uh July 10 I move to approve the minutes July 10th I second Walter toets in favor in favor sorry Marth Mo in favor Brian B in favor right along to July 24th same question is everybody had a chance to review it has everybody submitted any comments observations they have okay then can we have a motion to approve it approve July 24th I move to approve the July 24th minutes I second that Walter tpit in favor in favor J in favor Mar Mo in favor in favor okay August 14th as everybody had a chance to review August 14 yes and I sent two minor corrections to Chuck um one of them was 445 Pearl Street was listed in the minutes as 45 Pearl Street so that's close for for the purposes of tonight's minutes it's 445 sure and the other one was minor then can I have a motion to approve August 14 hold on uh two comments on page three pretty much at the beginning it says something about water entering the retention system before a su pump activates I didn't know there was a su pump in the retention system so you're talking about Bagel World yeah right yeah there is no sun pump you're right it's uh it discharges it's a gravity flow yeah but the minutes called for something about me saying something about a suum okay so there's a correction you got another comment yes and then later on when you're quoted there's something about a 1 in aore a o r e process at the one inch rainfall I'm trying to pick one and train so the word the word abore a o r e I asked about the one inch rain and Giovani said that um that was the standard and then it would be surface flow once it was more than right but there's a specific word abore that doesn't make any sense in your comment I wrote that but I now don't remember what it was I think I heard you say aore process but I don't know I ever said a process in my life okay all right let me go back and check what that was in the I can I can just correct it okay if you know what it is I think I'll just remove the word does it work with that abore remove it's on page it's on page three later on where Brian makes a comment I stop pointing out my comment okay they usually so then we now have a motion to approve 814 as amended I move to approve 814 minutes as Amendment J second Walter toit in favor in favor J in favor Arthur Moore in favor Brian Bo in favor next one is 828 uh I must confess before I asked the question that I have not gotten through it I haven't gotten to yet yeah and um I did like a lot of what shov did but I saw some comments and I was also National griding so I didn't get a chance to write them up so I would suggest that we can't so we got the 710 724 and S and 814 right so 8 828 is fairly recent so that's good and then there's the laggers so maybe we can uh get three more done at the next meeting that would be good I make a commitment to uh actually doing it now that point do we want comments on 828 if you have them sure um you mean make them now you mean no you can just send those to me yeah it better just to write them up and send them in to Chuck that's you can always call and I'll just do them right there and said you haven't had a chance to read the minutes from 8:28 but aren't you the one who wrote the minutes for 820 no I wrote 8:14 you wrote 814 you my notes and you wrote the minutes for 828 based on my notes okay um well then there's a good chance I read them since I wrote them I mean the odds are in in that's bizar so is it the 8:14 minutes that you might not have actually read should we revisit 8:4 um that's some comments you mentioned yes I I that would be good if we undid the uh approval because I did see some comments I didn't get a chance to write them up move to reopen the 8814 minutes for vision I second there Walter toppets in favor in favor CH in favor Mar Moore in favor R bro has to be a generic question if I may are we supposed to put down for every vote the person who voted and how they voted yes yeah that's the new way okay that's the one thing is missing on 828 right yeah pointed out that to me earlier I did it for the first decision but I did not replicate it that's just a simple cut and paste yeah cut cop okay fair enough that'sa it goes away C all right so we got two done and we have four for the next Mee okay not to be a problem but my name is Walter talet parentheses remote end a parenthesis that's what we're required to do if you come in person we don't put remote after your name so join us in person once in a while we have a chair right here having a party over here okay so given that then can we do 828 you said you didn't get I haven't read them yet okay so we still can't do 828 okay all right so having said that okay um I believe that is it for the evening unless anybody has any other comments I move to adjourn at 9:06 second all in favor all right Walter we see thank you everybody bye now good night e e