##VIDEO ID:YogEvG-i6vE## e e e e e e e e e well do we do a sound check you can hear us I can hear you wonderfully can you hear me you can okay ready to go hello this is Chuck teron read conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person in remote format consist with chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which further expands certain covid-19 measures regarding remote participation and public meeting until March 31st 2025 please note not all items listed back discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent by law this agenda those matters which can uh be reasonably anticipated to discussed at the meeting please note this meeting is being recorded I get to um all material is available at the following links which I'll provide as soon as I'm finished this script and then Brian Bo the Conservation Commission chair will facilitate this meeting please note that there uh will be public comment period at the hearing each vote will be taken by roll call vote we will begin with a roll call attendance Brian can please review the agenda and do the the rooll call attendance okay I review the agenda first first item is zero seed of swamp um this is a continuation uh recording in progress then there'll be the uh Town Forest fa phase five cutting this is opening here in on an RDA uh third is 29 Green Meadow Drive which is opening a hearing on an RDA for that property we'll then move on to um a quick disc discussion on a minor plan change for 16 Beverly um some conversation about violation notices and then discussion items um which are listed on the agenda um having said that I'll do the roll call starting with w w talet commissioner present Tony rolock is commissioner present Mar Vice chair present Primo chair present um so having said that we can get right to our first um Chuck can you let in people from the applicants sure I see that sha is here and Andrew's here I'll let them in right away um my screen he's okay Andrew okay uh both of them have permission to turn on their video and unmute anyone else shaa that you would like us to uh bring into this meeting uh yes um with us as well tonight is Jessica wall of Anderson and creger uh that's New England power companies uh attorney sure I'll set okay I haven't seen her show up yet put the uh link to the meeting uh permits in the chat right now okay so we're ready to go forward with this um so Jessica raised her hand hold on one second um Jessica can you speak is that is that might be the problem I'm GNA ask I'm just click on the ask to un mute but you have uh co-hosting permission so you should be able to work all your controls okay hi everybody good evening thank you for your time um I'll if you wouldn't mind giving me sharing permission sure you have that great okay okay can you all see the screen yes okay so just a background and and we'll do this briefly on the on the project um New England power company has a maintenance and replacement that includes replacement of existing wooden uh transmission line structures with substantially equivalent um uh steel structure along a 17m long um rideway electrical transmission rideway that goes between t and sagus a portion of the RightWay I think it's about a thousand or just over a thousand linear feet crosses through the town of reading right at the um within the camp Curtis Guild uh right within the uh borders of North Reading in lynfield so it's kind of the very top uh or northeast corner of of reading uh work specifically in Reading includes the uh of one existing structure and replacement kind of not directly adjacent to the structure but within about uh 50 feet or so with um kind of a larger structure so instead of having a direct embed two pole structure this is a concrete foundation uh so representing a bit of a loss of wetlands with the change in structure um size there's also uh Construction matting as the entire footprint of the project within reading is within BBW uh we're not in any other resource area with the exception of natural heritage uh habitat uh but it's entirely BBW uh matting is going to come in from both sides to facilitate access to I think it's about six different structures within kind this larger Wetland complex um kind of running through most of the the project site we do have some work pads Associated one with the removal of an existing structure um another with an removal of an existing structure on the on the Town Line with North Reading the work pad is within reading uh and then the uh replacement with a new structure uh this kind of larger diameter structure um in between the two the existing RightWay uh is is fairly large as you go down to the South uh this is a smaller uh right of way there's also a larger right of way with several other transmission lines south of the project uh the Cedar Swamp is on the Northern side of the easement um and the trees kind of on that Northern side have grown to a point where they are kind of within the right of way and presenting a hazard to the uh the transmission lines a fall Hazard a you know a hazard tree um New England power does not have the rights to to trim or remove any trees kind of on this this Northern Edge so they're proposing to realign line the portion of the uh transmission line within this RightWay to the South uh that because they have U easement rights they have um the ability to remove trees to the southern side of this right of way the removal of trees is necessary to um to maintain the clearances between the edges of the RightWay the existing tree line on the sides and that transmission line asset in the middle uh this is a 345 uh KV line you know it's a fairly large transmission line so those clearances are especially important so that the the trees kind of along those Sidelines aren't falling on the lines and uh threatening kind of that reliability of this line uh tree removal is within the three uh specific the three towns within this larger Wetland complex North reading reading and lynfield uh but we've got about 43,000 square fet plus or minus um of tree removal selective tree removal from this Edge uh tree removal in this case will not consist of kind of a a broad cut will come you know through with machines and mow it all down it's a selective removal of the trees that are directly a threat to the line which is dependent on kind of that position within this Outer Edge the species type and the existing height of the tree uh some you know species go a little bit faster some are more prone to to wind damage and falling over than others uh so we we've kind of given that 43,000 as a um an overall kind of capturing of the the tree line but it is it's going to be based more on the species there any questions kind of on that scope of work so you just you're saying you didn't count the trees this is a estimate of what's out there and most of this will happen in fieldwork yeah so we we did do uh we did try to do an attempt to do an account but the the carry is kind of large and especially as it go toward the Western end is is flooded so we did we took a number of different transects collected the like the total number of trees that are uh would would be potentially removed within an area and came up with a number of about 550 trees altogether within this area but again that's a rough estimate based on kind of transects and the total number of trees yeah I just wanted to be clear that you didn't go out and mark the trees and take an um accurate count okay and as I recall after the cutting you will give us an updated accurate number yes yes so that was the proposal to uh to work with the forestry team on which uh trees could be uh uh kept which trees you can kind of top at the at the top and they still maintain that clearance without uh the trees being removed entirely um which trees could be turned into a snag tree which is um you know it's kind of a a girdling of the tree so so that it's it's still dead tree provides wildlife habitat so we had a couple of different arrangements for um you know providing different able to keep some of the trees within within this area and then we cut we count all the stumps immediately following the you know the tree removal so we'd have a very accurate count of what has and hasn't been removed um yeah I have another question um is everyone on the tree crew qualified to make those decisions as they're work their way through or does uh someone go in first and Mark out all the trees to be cut or to be saved how is that process uh it's more in the in the weeds but I was just wondering how that works um I believe on on some P projects we've worked with the kind of the foreman or the um the National Grid Forester uh to to determine exactly which trees could be kept which trees uh we'd be able to create these snag trees in which one would be removed and that would be a site visit prior to the you know the cruise coming in for removal but Andrew if there's a a different on please um feel free to answer yeah we would walk through with that lead Forester uh we would identify those trees individually and then we'd be looking at as Shona said that EDG line and those trees and and it would be an evaluation of okay this tree is leaning away from the RightWay it's a non-issue non- hazard so we be saving that one we'd mark them individually and then that would basically set the stage for them to come in and do the removals one by one and you know at that time they would do the girdling so it would be a pretty precise you know activity to ensure we save as many as possible so you're saying G girdling you're not talking about um uh so you're talking about cutting the bottom of the tree so it dies off later on you're you're not talking about leaving a snag right uh the snag tree is created um through two phases right so they have to take the top of the tree which would be presenting the conductor clearance concern so you'd see the top of the tree cut and then at the base they would girdle around which basically sever the bark which brings the nutrients to the tree and the tree would die but it's left standing and that's what over time is creating habitat so as it dies uh Birds basically and bugs kind of creating cavities and it's creating perches and so forth so it would stay in that sense so am I um stretching my understanding of what may happen out there to think that the National Grid people have read the order of conditions or is uh sha G to be out there with her understanding of what would been approved to review uh as the process happens so so the answer for that is is probably a combination so the the that initial walkthr would be with um you know myself or somebody who's very close to this project to be able to identify those trees um and then the prior to the crews coming in to perform the work uh they are all trained in the field um we call it environmental field issue training where we go through all of the individual conditions we would walk through kind of all of the flagging in the field to identify which trees are saved which ones are removed which are snag trees so it's it's kind of a a that initial field walk through and Then followed by a training uh with all the field Crews that would be in the field and we we'd likely have some oversight as well through uh environmental monitoring because there will be there are at presently on the on the line environmental monitors that are um monitoring the project for Environmental Compliance so is that National Grids environmental monitors or that yourself or is it I don't know what the arrangement is with BSC so I'm just wondering yeah Chuck it would be with BC group yep for the duration of the project okay great can you tell me briefly um how you intend to Mark the trees are you marking the ones to be cut or the ones not to be cut typically it's the on not to be cut and that's with a you know a spray paint of different colors or different different marks yeah SE got it yep so that means the spray paint would continue to exist on the trees that or not to be cut correct any other questions no okay so I'll note about the construction method as well um you know as I had said they're they're not coming through and just removing kind of everything within this strip it is just the select of tree removal so following the tree removal work you will have the stumps but you'll also have that under story retained with the exception of where the construction matting kind of overlaps with the uh that edge of tree line so the crews will they'll put the you know the this access roadway right on the edge of the line and they'll work from that access roadway and and either walk in or using equipment from that access road they'll reach over to pick up the kind of that those tree stumps so you're not or sorry the the the tree limbs so you're not driving over or cutting um the you know that existing shrub under layer understory within this area so what kind of Slash you will will you be intending to leave the the any sort of trunks or limbs uh would be pulled out you know put on log trucks and removed from the site um there are occasions where kind of the the the branches and you know the all this work will be done in the winter would be chipped um and left on site but they won't be chipped and left in piles within this Wetland it's more than likely that they'd be chipped and left on site kind of in an Upland area outside of the town ofing so there'll be yeah in this case sorry Brian in this case the chipping the chipping would occur out of wetland so the materials taken outside of off the page to the right um into the upins there's a there's plenty of Upland area so it' be chipped or entirely hauled off site that was going me my question thank you okay any any other questions from yeah it's like um is that Upland area in Reading no no it is not okay so that process area is outside of reading so if you're laying down chips it's outside of ready okay correct correct okay um then perhaps we can get to some more details um so I'm glad everybody on your that's the fine question I assumed that she was sh are you am I cutting you off oh no I I I wanted to just talk through the scope um I do have additional material um walking through kind of all of the different you know mitigation um restoration type measures uh so I've discussed kind of before Inu restoration and monitoring commitments um the where the the Wetland matting will come down um you know we are obligated by a number of Permitting uh other permits so the the section 401 permit section 404 permits uh to monitor any areas where we've got Wetland matting that's come down on top of wetlands um in order to to ensure that you've rece you've reached kind of a 75% revation so monitoring usually takes place over the course of at least one growing season uh we'll have environmental scientists go out on on a quarterly basis um observe the site observe kind of the growing conditions and then um have a report that comes out um with a with a photo log and observations of you know what what species are there and what's revegetating um we do insitu restoration as well so um the way matting comes down is is you're working off the Leading Edge of the matting you know Machinery places the mat down directly on top of vegetation within a wetland there's typically no need to kind of mow you know within these larger saturated Wetlands there's no need to mow down uh vegetation they can place the matting directly on top of vegetation unless you've got some thicker um you know shrubs or saplings which they will cut uh but that matting comes down and comes out the same way where they're they're pulling back the matting as they're going through so that there's no um Machinery operating within the wetlands themselves however you know when that matting is removed the Environmental Compliance inspectors Wetland scientists will go out and inspect the footprint of where the mats have been in place to see if there's any um you know minor Runing that that does occur from when Vehicles travel over them um if there's any runting observed collection of soils or a material that's fallen through the the Wetland matting um all of that extra material would be removed um if there's running uh that would be restored using hand tools to kind of rake out the area uh so there's restoration of the site and then monitoring as that vegetation kind of comes back throughout a growing season or so um the uh I also wanted to mention the the construction m themselves uh New England power has an internal policy for invasive species control and I believe we detail some of this in one of the last communications to the the commission where as that matting is coming in the contractor installing the matting has to certify that the the mats are are free of of soil or plant debris um and they attempt to stop spreading invasive species with the matting so the contractor will um you know have those mats certified clean and as they're coming out of a wetland again be um they'll be inspected and and cleaned off before they go into another wedland somewhere else on the site uh one of the other kinds of monitoring mitigation type um uh programs there are is we we talked about in the last uh Conservation Commission hearing was to do pre-construction and postc construction surveys of uh the right of way anywhere we do have that was construction mats down or removal of vegetation along the the sideline uh to do a survey to document the existing invasive species uh there are certainly within the um the right of way the cleared P portions right now of the right of way we do know that there's you know very large frag midy Marsh um and within kind of that more transitional into the Uplands area you know there's quite a bit of uh Buckthorn whether glass are European I'm not sure um so the preconstruction invasive survey would kind of document the extents of those populations the density uh just to see what's kind of on the s now and then we continue to do those invasive species monitoring reports for 2 to three years um on top of the the monitoring um there is actually currently ongoing um part of the overall vegetation uh Management program with with National Grid um an invasive species um control program and I'm actually going to let Andrew take uh talk to that one because I know he's been talking to the forestry Cruise a little bit yeah yep since our you know last meeting and then core you know communication between sort of looking at what options we have to help address invasive species spread our vegetation Management program already integrates a herbicide cycle um so it is comprised of either a cut stump application or a folar spray done of targeted species and in this particular wet Wetland it would basically be targeting those Buckthorn species so it would help support and address the invasive species spread I think the commission was was concerned about um so to try and you know support sort of this this activity and the invasive spread and our kind of long-term monitoring we would do um a a an application this coming uh spring following the vegetation the tree removals to address um Buckthorn um plants that are present European common and then it also captures some other invasives Russian olive Autumn olive things of that type it wouldn't be touching the frag mes but it's at least addressing invasive species that that are present I think that the commission was interested in you know trying to curb the spread so that's kind of uh what we'd like to try to integrate as well as a part of the project okay I think Chuck has a question uh yeah it was for sha I was wondering when you talked about um uh where you going to monitor for invasives was that where the trees were cutting or that part of it also so you you talked about the mats and when you move the mats you're going to laun the you're going to monitor that but where you cut the trees is that part of this monitoring also yeah that that can be part of the monitoring as well so if we were to do that you know that preconstruction um existing condition survey uh we we would do the same thing within that treat line as well did you see in the understory as many inv bases I would assume not as many inves out there not as thick as just out in the sunlight um the mats are going to be dropped in and I would think the commission is more concerned about that uh area you know kind of turning into H we the mo where the mats are you know same similar characteristics as where the mats are being laid down so that that was my um thought on that but you said you would you're monitoring that too and and that's great because I think those safeguards will would kick in and that's where I would want them to kick in in that spot I mean not lose any more ground is kind of what I'm thinking so um where on the site are you considering that you might use herbicide es especially sprayed herbicide uh within the currently maintained Corridor and in this uh 20 foot additional clearing area so if Shona goes back a slide may help visually so you can see the white and black line on the Northern Edge so from there across the right way to include the uh red dashed polygon where we would um clear the trees or remove those trees so when you uh when you send out your crew they have a map and a plan and typically these maps and plans let them know where they can spray herbicide and what they can do any each area I'm wondering if this is a change for this area or this is continuing what's happened has this been approved in other words and I need to know if it needs to be approved also by natural heritage melon Cheesman whoever Missy and Marl um for this and how that process works if it's yes no I mean it's independent of the of the project it's something that's already approved and done through Mass Department of agricultural resources through a yearly operation plan permit um so natural heritage is is aware of the activity and it's just a it it's a tool in our toolbx to mitigate the the plants and the vegetation that is growing too tall and coming within the conductor clearance so it's an activity that happens uh the town is notified through letter uh so they've already made that notification and it's an activity we do on a cycle so it's not a it's not there's not a need to to approve the activity I'm just saying it can help support with the commission was concerned about with the spread of invasive species all right so we're not looking for another letter of no take from natural heritage no okay um are you broadcast spraying are you backpack spraying are you cut and dab what is what are we doing here are we um what is the process and do you know what herbicide you're using and does it have a surfaced in it the the two ways in which the application is applied is through a foler spray and I guess to go through what that would include it's you know a backpack with people kind of certified and they're targeting the species as they are leafed out they're spraying directly at that uh species uh they don't uh apply that application if they're standing water so they target times of year that would be um you know lacking standing water so in this Wetland complex maybe on the side closest to lynfield there's less standing water they could do that kind of an application as they proceed down if they're sanding water that application isn't feasible uh the cut uh stump treatment is the same concept it's on the backpack with a person going plant by plant they're cutting the invasive plant and then they are dabbing the the stock of it and what that is doing is it's drawing it down into the roots of that plant and it's killing the plant um the applicators are all say that again sorry I was wondering if they just use D so they know where they went and if someone went out to review they could see I know it doesn't last forever but right no no no great question yeah the the dabbing is is typically um and they're not bopping around and losing track where they're at so it's done pretty precisely yep um y I guess I and and uh oh can we get um so you're using and if you could just name that or maybe you're doing more than one you have more than one herbicide that you use you could let us know each one so like in Reading we usually um we've been running into approved by BC you know at the at Camp Curtis Gil they use garlon 3A which is you know I guess it was great and I guess was here about that so I don't know what you're using but at least we'd like to see that yeah the the chem you know the herbicide type something I don't have hand tonight but I we could provide that and then as far as like the natural heritage that sort of what they're operating under we could provide that as well okay done done sorry you if you have additional slides uh just a last slide is a as an example of a project a past project kind of a similar um um removal of trees along the sideline um this is this is in Westboro so you can see kind of this the stumps um in the foreground uh this tree with the the S on it and the flagging this is a a snag tree so this is kind of what they look like when they when they're put in you know they they remove the the limbs or branches on the top which do have that that danger of falling into the line um and then just they they leave that that stump in place uh so this is a you know a photo taken while the line was in construction um this is a photo taken a few days ago from it's taken from this substation looking down the line so there's you know a full kind of community at the edge consisting of both shrubs and uh this is that that forested edge so it does you know you do see a lot of rebound a lot of regrowth of stuff right along the edge there um including this kind of understory layer of of of shrubs and vegetation just an example project of what this you know what this could look like where that um Matt matted access road is right on the edge and then the crews just work off of this to get you know get into that that forested edge okay are you done yep okay I didn't want to cut you off again no worries all right so then um if we could speak to some of the issues that have Arisen over the past few months um one of the uh bigger ones of course are the uh fees that have been talked about here um in the uh email that uh National Grid sent on September 10th there was a breakdown of fees in different categories totaling the 58,000 and chains that you actually showed on your last slide up here um and in that email it was stated that um the commission could shift the funds uh as it as it saw fit um so the place that we'd like to shift it is the category um which was which is called the remainder of 24,750 for print review we'd like to shift that to um a different account uh a mitigation account that we could use uh to improve um habitat for birds and what have you in the uh Wildlife Cor in the northern part of reading of which if you take this if you stop sharing I have a Jo and amphibians Brian yeah good point certainly to show this area here it's um as you'll notice this all these green areas are open space Blue Area up at the top is owned by the red open land trust and this blue area on the left coming down screen is actually a golf course but um this is what we we call our Wildlife Corridor your project is in the upper Northern corner and the Ipswich river runs from screen left to right and has some tributaries down in through through your project but most of your project probably heads down to the sagus river which is down by 95 the highway whatever it's high 95 I think um so anyways this is this is the area uh and the Conservation Commission has a lot of land here we have North and South Cedar Swamp we have be Meadow we have Fabian Marsh we have lobs Bond we have the the Town Forest all of those areas are open space uh either owned by the Conservation Commission or run by the town in their Town Forest committee those are the places we've identified that we would like to um mitigate for any uh any alteration that had to do that displaced birds that displaced amphibians we just wanted to improve these areas and that 24,750 seemed to be the one item that wasn't directly connected um to our fees and in a way seemed to be able to be uh lodged and I think that we could also make an argument that um uh it it's not too much money for this project and what's happening out there at least I hope we could anyways that's the thought behind it I'll stop sharing the screen do you have any thoughts on that before I move on to another item on the idea not no no thoughts on it thank you Brian okay um so another item related to fees um is the uh uh reduction in the uh square footage fee um down to 50 cents per square foot from the amount we have in our bylaws and so I'm bring that up mostly to point out that we would need a vote tonight for the commission to approve that reduction um I don't anticipate that being an issue but I wanted to point out that we needed a vote for that before we're done tonight let's see uh I also want to reference uh the superseding order of conditions um that was issued by dep to Boston gas relative to a project up in low the um low low area modernization project of words to that effect um and I'm referencing it because in reading it there's a number of special conditions that we found pertinent and useful and so we want to um reference those in the order of conditions for this project um now the there's a lot of special conditions in there and so we're not looking at all of them I will quickly read the list of the ones that we either want to take you reference it they they know just give the file number you're good sure okay fine um let me see the file number [Music] is let me do it 206- 084 okay so that's the D file D superseding order 206- 804 and Cole has his hand up sorry y Brian Brian and Chuck while while I have the superseding order of conditions and the special conditions um it is important to know what special conditions you're interested in applying to the project because the comparison of our project and that low area gas modernization project there there are some differences so I just want to be um confident understand which ones they are I don't think the commission's looked at it close enough to understand what they want to do but obviously the commission is uh um is wise enough and Savvy enough to understand what which ones fit and which ones don't with this order um it there was a lot of similarities but there also were not uh you know obviously is a in some ways a very different project but uh for instance there is something in there about monitoring and you brought up monitoring and I think that would be interesting to look at but we do have to take our most of our information from this meeting and from our review of your project but getting the language right might be important so um if you wanted uh to know what we would do we would have to take the time to go through it I guess is the best I can say sure would the would the commission be willing to provide a draft of the conditions um by you mean when well I guess uh it sounds like you're looking at the special conditions which you know they're up to 70 and and again that I realize that the commission uh while reading these will will interpret sort of what's applicable to our project but my concern is some of the conditions yeah I was thinking you were looking for something tonight clearly that wasn't that wasn't going to happen and just from the amount of times we put in so far there'll be a number of them that we want to take whole cloth so to speak and others where we would modify it recognizing the differences between the two projects but yes we will provide that yeah uh so uh since that's me that's pretty much know if we're we're so I don't know where this is going tonight okay so let's like let's say it's not closed we leave it open our next meeting is November 13 you would probably receive it basically a week before that meeting so that's that's all I can um all right um so perhaps we should vote uh on the reduction of the uh fee something else you want cover first nail down the 24,000 so um Andrew the commission wants to um wants to uh modify the fee schedule does National Grid agree to that change does it keep the total at the amount that we provided as our mitigation and it's just a reallocation absolutely so I know council's here our council is not do we need a letter I'm asking Jessica wall that do we need a letter from National Grid um to moraly that or is it good enough to have this verbal agreement sure so thank you for the time and I can I can add some clarification so I have had the chance to speak to Town Council several times about the project which I appreciate the opportunity and we did talk about the fee schedule and you know National Grid's position is that the fee amount that's listed there which is I think approximately 58,000 um we're happy to you know write a single check to the the town for that amount and you know where the town sees fit to allocate that is is entirely up to them um so I don't I don't think it's necessary to have a breakdown of where money is going in order at least from the National Grid side um in order to to reach agreement here but um if the town is proposing to allocate the funds as as you've described then I don't think there's any objection from National Grid good thank and and so yeah that's fine you want to you want to write one check I'm just thinking about what they are and and sorry just to add a clarification I'm sorry just to add one clarification I don't think that we need um uh further correspondence I sent an email to Town Council uh basically saying uh a shorter version of what I just said um a couple of days ago so she has that yeah and we heard from Andrew Cole that it was uh agreeable to do that change as long as it didn't change the total that's that's what I heard so is is that all correct and on the record yes yep that's correct okay um so that's fine um so usually take the vote when you're so you would you would vote um for the reduction so they want an amendment to the fee so you would so we're going to vote all all everything all at once right so we're gonna vote for the fee reduction we're going to vote um to uh rework the fees um but keeping it at 58750 um that's Incorporated in it uh and so that all happens at one time so if we close tonight you would vote on those things but you don't need to vote but you need to vote reducing the fees first before you vote to issue okay issues so it doesn't have to happen now and not Clos but issue you need to close first I'm saying then you need to do paperwork in between we just discussed and then you would issue okay so then are there any other questions from the commission before we uh vote on whether to close or not well hold on I think there's another another question out there um Andrew you want to review the and Walter tet sorry Walt um yeah I didn't see a hand Walter sorry why you go now well no yeah my question would be within the town do we know the money is going to come to us or does it get filtered somewhere else write if they write a general check to the town we've had those internal discussions with Town Council and um assistant Town manager and town manager they understand it if it is at all possible it will happen um I'm not saying that doesn't include having to go to town meeting to have the money appropriated to Conservation Commission but they're supporting us receiving this amount of money for mitigation and what what the problem is and I think I've told the National Grid team this reading is not in control of their bylaw fees they go into the general fund a lot of towns towns I've worked in have and it it's a big deal because that's where most of the money comes in we don't goes into the general fund we're just um we're just in control through statute the Fe that come in through the state half and we get half of those fees um but to answer your question we have support within the town for that and we just wanted to make sure that National Grid was okay with it and then we can try to work through the town process so it's a lot of steps but um hopefully we get there but National Grid doesn't seem to be the ones that are in that are in the way if if you understand that okay thank you okay thank you right can I ask question I was wondering if we could get a copy of the PowerPoint presentation absolutely that was on my list yeah did you hear that yeah they're both fak in their head that would be great to get it sooner rather than later because some of that stuff would have to be incorporated into the order of conditions now Andrew back to my question I'm wondering if you want to close tonight or if you want me to draft the order of conditions between now and the 13th and then typically we close an issue on the same night and you will review it and we'll have to discuss it live you know yeah um my only fear in closing without the draft conditions is if a condition isn't something we can apply yeah we don't want to yeah right that that would be my concern um give us permission to continue I don't think is there anything other questions any questions from the Audi I mean I'm kind of like taking over but let's get this going is there a way to I'm sorry is there a way to um vote on the reduction of fees and those types of items without closing or am I mistaken no I think the idea we want to close first so it was discussed is to get through the drafting of the board of conditions you if we get it we would get it and we would all review it live at the the commission is amendable to reducing the fees I don't I just you're just waiting for a vote so that's all yeah and if you want to push off the close you you don't want to ask us to close tonight then you're you're not going to get that vote either um so with that and go through the to find out if there's anybody watching tonight that might want to say something yeah I was GNA get okay all right so uh out there in public land is there anybody who has any questions if if you do just uh reaction button the reaction button raise your hand and and we should see it see anybody anyone here tonight would like to say something okay okay good back to the commission well Andrew do we have your permission I'm just sorry I just really want to just get this rolling uh do we have your permission to continue to November 13 which is our next meeting um November 13 13th yep it is and did you hear that question I did yeah sorry I'm I thought thought the reading hearings were the first and third second and four second and fourth okay I'm sorry um yeah I'm I'm good with that um continuance okay okay that case we should give have a motion then to um continue this to November 13 so moved second this Tony I second okay Walter have to voting y Walter Talbots in favor Tony Ro Locus in favor Martha Moore in favor Brian B in favor okay thank you yeah thanks okay thank you very much see you in November moving right along you can be quiet now have enough okay have enough TV time yes so next uh hearing is the Town Forest phase five cutting I'll read the blur um open a public hearing on a request for determination of applicability filed by Christopher Cole Department of Public Works director and Town Forest committee under Massachusetts Wetland protection act mgl chapter 13140 Andor reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes F phase four uh is that correct because the heading says phase five which one phase four phase four of the dead tree cutting of all Hazard trees in a treatment area on approximately 5.1 acres of land portions of the work are within the 100 foot buffer zone to a bordering vegetated Wetland and 200 foot Riverfront the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading and on the conser conservation division page under the project by year this is off stav assessors map 43 49 lot 3743 491 map 55 lot one file number 20247 um bill I presume you would like to take us through this yes you and uh just introduce yourself need really have to do name and address for the record okay yes I'm Bill Sal pull up my slides there check it appreciate that I should be prepared I know you busy first thank you all for this opportunity to come speak to you this is now the fourth time we've done this so this is becoming semi- routine what was that I find it on my email that's easier yeah I'm not what do you think Bill how's it going so far I think my uh laptop is freaking out let me just see if it uh comes in in a second okay it because it's a PowerPoint yeah it's the PowerPoint I have a laptop that want to set it up you have your laptop yet here um just connected and one in the back of this one now here we are doing itun stuff I'm just hoping this will just turn off let me see if uh yeah we try let me try one more time with this e know that this is not going to work so we're got to go to the next thing uh um can you can you that can you sign into this meeting from your from you help me to remember to close it do I need to or can I just plug this into this yeah let's see what happens we W to Know M letter us know if we're good to go well guess we can do it without pictures can you can you sign into the meeting sure sure okay I'll I'll I'll plug you back yeah yeah I think you going to do like your remote yep you know you know hold on a second uh did we have this on the we go crazy let's go here you're gonna have to plug us back in but um can you hit cancel or something like that going have to cancel cancel the meeting because uh we'll be turned into the IT department we can come back tomorrow this thank you all right here we go I um oh you send it to me late so we don't have this on your website I thought it would be on the website yeah the plans are the presentation the plans are not a presentation you're GNA have to sign into the meeting and get it's that way did nothing yay still asking you to answer that question how are we doing with everybody at home Walter any can you see us I can see the meeting I don't see anything else yeah we're just gonna have uh to let me in yeah I think this is the best we can do is just do it this way oh that's fine then that's actually in some ways it's better because I can just do it here all right so there you are and um you know should be able to Tony that material you asked for is on the website and you're absolutely going to review the order of conditions everyone is okay Walter how are we looking on that at home I can see it Reading Town Forest established 1930 awesome okay back in business all right okay is coming up here good okay here we go so we all set all right again thanks for the opportunity to come in to talk to you about um yeah the uh phase four of the debt free removal program and you know the first three I think have gone pretty well and it's been really you know to be able to with you all it's been great I think we had a good collaboration with real results work that way all right no it's it's my fault this was I dropped a it uh last week because I was having problems and I checked it at my desk and it all worked out fine but I come here and it says that they PowerPoint won't open up so I know our next hearing 29 Green Meadow they'll be doing their own presentations so I don't have to worry about that but yeah this is still giving me problems okay I can share alter can you see that well never mind we could do it I could hey I got it I got it see you try on that fancy computer of yours there we now we're good to go now we're good sorry about that okay okay so you know in review you know the the photo in the photo what you see there the green trees are white pines and the dead ones are red Pines we all know as the climate swming you know we've been having problems with not just in running but really across the state they're not native to Massachusetts and so the result of warmer climate they're getting stressed by you know red P the fungus and insects and and they're all dying so they haven't if they're not dead already that they will be sh don't we need to remove everybody you gets hurt with fire so this shows the program as it's been carrying out to date and where we have to go so the first phase was January 2020 that's the yellow areas the light blue was February 2022 and then November of 2022 are the purple the areas that we're talking about tonight are sh it's 512 and 13 in Orange and so that uh is should be we're hoping will be the last major phase there will be some you know isolated pockets maybe here and there but actually you know what I'm going to go back see the gray area area 11 that's an area that we talked about I think we actually I know we did a site walk out there with some of you and we decided because it's so isolated there's not you know a maintained Trail there um we're just going to leave that be and let V take its course that's the one you guys closed right correct yeah yep so he did four and a half acres under phase one four and a half in phase two phase three was was 4.8 acres and you all this work has been we worked very closely of course with DBW and they did all the uh binning and manage the projects during this time period we've had a number of of scout projects the Scouts have planted hundreds of trees in a number of different areas and you know we're fully aware that there's three big parts to this work there's the removal of De trees there's control of invasives because you know we're all fully aware that by allowing sun to get to the under story you know the the invasives are there and their opportunists and they will take over if we don't act on them we have been doing that and that will continue but then replanting is is the third so next phase again it's areas 512 and 13 that's 5.1 Acres and again it should be you know the last major phase uh the forest cutting plan which is part of um the work prepared by Phil Benjamin I think most of you have met he's been our Forester for a very long time DCR approved the forest cutting plan in September and now it's with you for your for your consideration so this phase four will continue the work that we've been doing over the last you five years or so and first three phases taken care of 13.8 acres the we've done four phases of invasive plant control the last one the biggest one was last November $44,000 and we will be going to funding for town meeting for two things both for this phase four tree cutting but also we're going to be requesting $100,000 basic control so you know we're making a real effort to pull this whole program together this I just I me necessarily need to read all this I just just wanted to point out to you the difference between the prior three phases and this was right out of the forest cutting plan that talks about how you know previously we just took out whole trees but there are a number of areas where we're going to be leaving snags for the you know portions that main standing will serve as snags enhancing the opportunity for those species of wildlife that use snags for feeding nesting roosting and so that's something new and then also what is different too what's referred to as the forest type two that area is referring to area five which is you know the pine Bridge Trail which is that that narrow eser that really doesn't provide for equipment access and we've talked about this when we've been out out in the field is that those trees will be dropped parallel to the slope and in contact with the ground so that they will decompose into the ground um an additional side benefit we've had some situations where we cleared some slope and it has been a magnet for mountain biking and so these trees will discourage that uh are we going to ask questions at the end or no you have question question now might as I get to it long sure bill when you drop the trees uh they're going to be supported by their limbs and they're not really going to be touching the ground what's the process for getting them closer to the ground because you said you wanted to make sure that they're there is that's that that will be a requirement that they be they have to Lim the thing with with these is that they're so brittle so they're bad and so those pine limbs which are already are not particularly strong um I'm fully expecting that they will drop right to the ground where they don't they'll be required to get them in contact with and what's that height that we're trying to get them below if uh so if they started to stack up five feet that oh yeah if it's so you want to have it with 30 inches or 40 inches I I mean we don't we don't want them to fall on top of each other is that what you're yeah I'm trying to figure out if I walk out there to review this project object and I see a stack that's 4 foot high you know the trees have fallen over each other or it's supported by its Limbs and its way up then I'll know that that's incorrect and I should call it out so what's that height that we want to get this material down to the forest floor should it should be touching the ground I mean the limbs I mean not the limbs the TR should be on the ground okay that's that's what we're measuring against so if they cross over each other someone's going to get in work yes they have to cut them into you know sections to get them in Conta that's so G to follow up on that for a second so you expecting there'll be enough trees that these lengthwise these sideways trees are going to be right next to each other and you're going to have almost like a quartery slope or how many trees get cut there in this area I couldn't give you a number I don't remember it looking very dense as far as the blue spots that we saw so perhaps that won't be an issue yeah it's not going to be continuous certain yeah I I don't like it I'm just gonna add something I don't think they're being dropped in an area where people are walking so the trail is still going to be clear but it's just whatever's on the side on either side of the trail is where this stacking of I understand I wasn't Trail I was just imagining walking on the trail looking down and seeing all these hor horizontal log so it is going to be a shock did you did Phil tell you how long that may be there before it starts theado it's certainly going to be years um you know but fact that they're red Pines for one and that they're dead for another will accelerate yeah if we're lucky the buck one will cover it up in a couple weeks sor what are you g to do with them sorry so that brings us to our our request for to you for the the approval of this work and removing the dead trees we got a letter from from the fire department their support for this from a fire stand Point we've replanted in areas 2 three 4 S and 10 and this is going to continue continue we did you may recall that we had a a consultant come in to do an inventory of where the invasive plants were and their mapping kind of divided it by the trails and the access roads so the work that was done last uh November and then this spring was to address all of the trends um recognizing that this is not just a one andone but for you know this first treatment which is the most important uh that's been done in all the trends reason why we're going to be asking for $100,000 for the at town meeting is to finish up the rest of it yeah the first you know treatment of all that'll be primarily around the access rooms which there's a lot there's a lot of bug fing on the access room so absolutely and so that's we're hopeful to to get approval for that so anyway request a negative termination of acity andas okay um have a question commission yes go ahead um how much of the work is going to occur within Wetland buffer zones I would say I would say half or just more than half Area 13 and part of the reason that we're you know we're putting some of the snags at the bottom of the slopes is because it gets into the you know close to the Wetland and um and so that there was really from a safety standpoint you know a lot of this is driven by safety you know we don't want de trees falling on people the snags with if they fall when they fall they're not going to be at risk to public so um but you know that much of that is is in the buffer five I five along that you know the pine Bridge Trail um that's down the bottom of the slope I know that gets wet are you clearing that whole slope yes is there a with with some snags left is there a line coming up from the Wetland where you're not working like that 25 foot znv that's all going to be snags and when you top them the the material that comes off the top is not going to go towards the Wetland it's going to go out in this direction away from the Wetland we that can certainly be a condition okay I think that that should be a condition so you're okay with only topping Tony is this where you were going well actually let's think about this since they're they're at along the Pine rge Trail that's all going to be done with chainsaws yeah so it's not quite as they have pretty good control how they going to top those dead trees if it's all chainsaw they got to clim I asked we had logger out that's G to do it that's interesting the wetlands are not delineated but um we could have a condition that whatever 10 feet 25 feet anything 25 feet and closer is topped and you finish your setting 25 F feet is topped and any of the debris that comes off of that would be up gradient from uh from that area from the 25 foot line the hard part is is promising how when it's topped how it's going to drop when they're using a chainsaw so so my question if I can just jump in for a second what about the possibility of the ones nearer the Wetland not being topped because it's easier to control the fall of the whole tree and do snags and what have you further up the slope away from the water so it's not as urgent exactly where the top piece Falls so why I was doing that discussion was because I don't want any material in the Wetland and and if everything could fall up slope that would be great but it maybe a combination of both would work on I I'm a True Believer that we don't have to figure it out we just tell them what we want so so so there's a thought yeah it's up to you guys to figure out how to keep them out of the pieces out of the my turn yes in the forest cutting plan that was in the packet um it specifically says some of the red Pines marked for removal have been marked at a height indicating that the tree will be topped and not felled these particularly marked red Pines are either within the 50 Foot filter strips present in the project or scattered along some of the steeply sloped esar so it sounds like they're talking about topping everything within 50 feet of the Wetland not 25 and that's in the forest cutting plan and it says C by hand cutting or with use of a long boom with a cutter head on a harvester parked on the adjoining Carriage Road so that's that's what I saw that is relevant to that discussion and that was consistent with that that condition that was required by ACR I think some of the areas and some of those descriptions don't fit exactly in my understanding of that area so again we should make conditions based on protecting the Wetland resource area and let them decide how they're going to deal with with this I mean that didn't say people are gonna climb no and Bill was saying people are gonna climb so there's already been a change said hand cutting yeah hand cutting could be climbing um yeah but when we were on our site visit we did notice that there were maybe around the bottom of Area 13 there were some trees that were like five feet from the Wetland m so um you know and they were marked with blue spots but I was not understanding the key to what was a blue spot for felling and what was a blue spot for topping so a blue spot usually there's a blue spot at the base and then one about you know five six feet up that's an indication of of cutting then it's if they're being topped there was market up High Mark is higher up on the top so then what Martha pointed out is worth looking at again because they definitely were blue spots going right down to the water you know where on the bench Trail and then it drops off and runs along the the shore yes right right along that slope there were some trees with a blue spot down very close to the water so that doesn't seem to match the key well I don't I mean they're I think the idea with the snags is that I don't I'm not sure that they're necessarily all going to be snagged down low some of them like somewhere around area 13 um they're going to leave the whole tree because it's down very low and then as they come up the slope there some would be snags and some would be cut okay so some of the red Pines marked of removal have been marked at a height indicating the tree will be topped correct and those trees that are being topped are within the 50 Foot area thought it so it's not that every tree in 50 foot area will be toed just some of them and the trees will be cut with with laborers with chainsaw standing on the ground there aren't going to be Tren the bucket rigs no only the one with the on the pine Bridge Trail that will be the case on the others on areas 12 and 13 that will be with with equipment with the long arm with the long arm but you're not going to have a a heavy my my concern is soil compaction I'm not going to be driving out with a heavy truck into soft soils and compacting it you're either going to be sending people out there with chainsaws standing on the ground cutting them you'll be reaching with with a long armed right and so what they did like on area on area 12 that whole that's the the yellow trail that one they won't be able to get the piece of equipment because it's a nice wide they'll be able to drive right up to it and they'll leave a few you know here and there snags 10 20% or something that we talked about uh and then the rest of it will all come out and all of those trees will come out that's all going to be mechanical 13 that's going to be more of a combination you know they're gonna they'll use the equipment up like on the The Ridge because they can drive it up there uh which they've done in other places and then how wide is that vehicle again 10 ft 12T sorry how wide is that vehicle about 10t that's the one that they've used kind of all around and all you long arm yes and right can can you repeat so that that gets in the microphone oh yes so the the other to address the concerned about soft compassion thank you bring that up but yeah it'll be done when the the soil is hard or frozen we did it last we did it in 2022 in November soils were very hard and then other times we in January it was it was hard that kind of prevents that and have you seen any impacts from compacted soil previously cut areas okay no even even in area three which was done few years ago that was initially was a kind of a different process a different piece of equipment and even that the slash was higher than the first in the third contract but U it has in the meantime it is open down there's really no indication ofip Hy what do you need if there if there is compacted soil you you want them to back bladed you want them to shovel it out I mean obviously he a big going through areas that just kind of fluffy right I mean the first concern is runting yeah right so if there's any runting fill that in the second concern would be is if heavy equipment is going in there and it's compacting it that it's going to take years for something to grow and you'll be able to see that that track going into the woods which may in turn invite fix for that because those can just be conditions well the long arm boom is a good start don't go in there right within um the buffer zone how long is that long arm boom well we can't guarantee who a contractor is going to be you know different contractors have different P of equ but you know that the last time they were in so you want no I'm I'm more the closer you get to the Wetland I'm more concerned the farther away mechanical Machinery within the buffer zone reach in from there or none closer than well we have to have a the equipment Le yeah no closer than 50 feet no closer than 50 feet or 40 feet if what's I don't even know what a typical boom reaches out 35 feet you're pretty close at that they can if they can manage that there's also matting you might be able to consider but I don't want to make this too complicated and at a whole lot of cost either I'm certainly they so we know for a fact they shouldn't be in the 25 foot znv so that's so you're at least 25 F feet away and now we're just discussing the for another 25 feet um it won't be able to get the job done can't do it yeah if we can't get within get within 50 feet of BBW 50 feet that is that what you were just proposing no we we know that you can't get within 25 feet of the resource area or the Wetland and that seems to be fine right because you could reach in with that if you look at you know the the southern area southern end of Area 13 where there were a couple of red Pines on the other side of the road on the southern end that have some blue spots on sou they are going to be on the road on the the the Fire Road reaching to it yeah so that equipment is definitely going to be 25 ft the equipment is going to reach into because these dead trees are in the wet their feet are wet okay so what what what I would suggest then is if there is compaction and in the next growing season if things visibly aren't growing from where the vehicle was and you have to go back and and and agitate the soil you know go to the shovel and loosen it up a little bit and and do some hand plantings my concern is I don't want to make a like a new Trail right now on a good example would be what we did area one which is you know where the the stone fire the stone chimney is along the yes yeah so up on that slope that was we call that area one that was a it's a trail the Red Trail and the equipment went up onto it or you could definitely see that there had been equipment there when it was when it was done you don't see that now okay so you know I'm not sure that we can we can't necessarily guarantee that that this that they will be you know leave no trace this is this is construction no I understand that but I I don't want to I don't want to create a new you know permanent or longterm disturbance so maybe a condition could be after two years or three years if if you can still see you know obvious I don't think they're going out first off the contractor should do it so it should be immediate so if there's something out there Brian's been out there a lot I don't know if we can still do that but but that kind of review needs to happen and then tell the contractor right away so I think we should have a no-o Zone and I think that's a 25 foot so you can't get any closer than the 25 foot you can reach into the 25 foot that's not okay okay so you're not driving it you have to St stop at about the 25 foot all right so that could be the 35 foot if you wanted to I think the boom might be 20 feet Stu why so I could see if you said you can't get the equipment in the resource area 100% no one's proposing that but the equipment is going to have to get closer close to the edge in some circumstances well if it's on the road that's not an issue you mentioned the road so we're not we're not concerned about the road some of the trails to to Really to do all the work that we need to do well I think if you're on a trail also and I'm not concerned about a trail concerned about if you're driving off Trail kind of forest where you're kind of working your way in you know Ridge Trail let's say if you worked your way down the bottom let's say they could drive it and they work their way down towards the pond at the bottom they have to stay 25 feet away with the mechanical equipment they could reach in that last 25 feet they can't get any closer and we're talking about having a back blading condition so that they loosen up the soil and air rate it as they're leaving and make sure that their ruts are not left in the soil although you know ruts sometimes are beneficial right I've seen vernal pools develop out of ruts but it also you know captures things as it's going down it's you know you always see like uh an eroded uh side of a hill and then they kind of make the ruts in it they kind of grade it out and they leave it rough every one of those little pockets has more grass in it than than the high spot you know because it's caught certain things as it comes down through each rainstorm but um I'm okay and we did this before one of the trails uh one of the trails was really roughed up and and it was fixed by back blading and fixing it it didn't seem to be an issue okay I think that would be fair to say if there are any ruts that you know the ruts need to be addressed that's not a problem at all but I'm a little uncomfortable saying you can't get any piece of equipment within 25 ft of resource but you know we're only talking the wheels right so you can reach in no absolutely so that's still a problem well because it depends on you know how far they need to reach from that point so which which which area do you think that constraint is I think I think Area 13 I think that's going to be a problem I think that in order to be able to get down so if you're if you're on can you put the map back up yes right so if you're facing the kiosk and the trail goes up the face of the ridge so how would you propose getting something up that Ridge right prob I have is the glare right where his hand is wal we see you do you want to ask your question now we're putting this up yeah we're talking about you're talking about Area 13 there's also trees in area 12 that are within the resort area we close to and now my next question is how you going get there too just an FYI can't share anymore lose I don't think so uh let me check no you still you still have co-host permissions so uh Area 13 do you have uh something see can you pass that over to Tony I think at some point we got to get back to uh paper plans and uh okay no okay are 1A and area 12 SC there okay so see on Area 13 that the part that sort of EX crosses the road that's the part that you know that's on the road but then even up so heading north from that road right where the numbers 13 are yeah it looks like you're going 13 looks like it's it's on the it's on that it's on a the white Trail yeah it's on the white Trail yeah that but that goes down the slopes yeah I don't think there'd be red pine growing in the Wetland is there red pine because that figure looks like this well but with within certainly within 25 ft of the road yeah absolutely we saw some Within five 10 feet yeah okay and on the on the south side of of the road that limit of 13 they're right there they're in the W yeah but you're standing there on the road reach out and so that one I'm not worried about what I am concerned about is the rest of 13 right where the numbers one and three are um on whether they'll you know that the equipment can't get closer than 25 ft I'm not sure they're going to be able to get all the trees that are so I know we're kind of caught on this but a related issue for 12 how would they approach it to get to the trees they want to cut up towards the top up near where the benches are yep so most likely they will approach from the Northern end of 12 and then kind of work their way down so down near the water hole and go up the face of the ridge I think what they'll do is yeah you know what with the the dam um beam it's so that where the yellow Trail comes they'll uh they'll go up up that because it's a fairly mild grade to go up that they'll follow okay you have the building with miral and the trail goes up to the left oh no I'm talking about the other end of that the build the building with the mural is on the southern end of right and so they won't be going up that face I suspect they'll be going down that face from the Northern end so that means they're going to be going up from the second water and hole and there's test pipes out there and everything yes all right they goingon to be going up that face it seems to be that when we walked it with the the U the log of that so when when we walked it there were definitely some places where we saw a tree right in the middle of the trail and we said how are they going to get around this or they is this one extra one they're going to have to take that there truly wasn't a 10 call or 12 foot wide so was a margin and that happens that some know they even talk about that that U Bill did that there are times when to be able to get to the rest of the trees they have to take a tree that yes you know is maybe isn't a dead red vine that can happen and that's happened in the first three phases but that's you know they minimize that to the best of their ability and because I think it's going to be the same issue on five same thing I don't see a clear path to get to the top of the ridge in order to be able to reach well equipment you can't five area five is that's the area that's going to be done by hand but that exact reason so they won't need to drive a vehicle up the Pine Ridge Trail correct and they're not taking their logs out which is our second question was how would there the transport I get there's really no way to do it no we noticed along the Pine Ridge Trail in area five There Were Trees right along the trail with poison ivy vines on them that did not seem to have blue spots but they were clearly Dead red Pines so would those be still taken down because they're within the corners of the Z Zone they didn't actually Mark every there are some yeah there are some areas and I'm not sure that that's one of them but where it's indicated by you know three slashes yeah that marks the limits and so everything within those limits is coming out okay everything within those limits yeah all right yeah I think that's the the one of them because that's where we first saw the three stripes and we're saying are they taking out this tree with three stripes on it but not these other trees just beyond and the answer is that three stripes it's a limit right and are there some trees with three stripes that will be left standing because they are not red Pines and therefore not dead but they got their three stripes just because they're marking the corner I was with Phil when he was doing the marking and my recollection was the the trees with with the the three stripes are coming out and that he put them on the dead red mes okay because we definely that were not red they were or Maples but they had three stripes on them it's possible was it in area five or one of the other areas do you recall my memory is area five because that's the first one we went to first we went and that's where we were looking at these striped trees and saying why are they cutting down this red maple now it was not a very healthy red maple it had broken off its leader and had side branches but it was still not a pine so so that would be a question fulfill sure sure is um the the ones marked with three stripes as the corners are they all coming out or are they just marking the corners paration and my other question about the markings you have said that the the spots that are waste high are trees that are coming out and the spots that are higher are the trees that are getting snagged um some of them seemed to have a longer spot rather than a round spot is that relevant at all or is that just artifact of how he spray painted like it was an oval rather than a DOT oh I think that was just an artif actually one case it was a comma okay all right but but it was height not sh of the it's height that that all right ni and you also mentioned that the Boy Scouts have planted hundreds of trees and we looked at the area not far from the fire Circle where there are hundreds of cages yeah and we found two sprues and two tulip trees that still had leaves or needles and pretty much nothing else had any evidence that they are growing um is there any plan to replant the things that didn't survive our very dry summer so that's the last time I had checked which was a while ago there was a much higher survival than that it was about about 50% which is you know for that for planting those little saplings that's that's pretty good I think that one thing I did notice was that even those that um had survived some of them the stem look dead but there were new shoes coming out from root so I think what will be a a better indication will be in the spring right that that it may be that they have gone dormant as the ones with the dead stems did but we're still had enough life in the root to be able to throw up a new shoe yeah so after the spring when we see what leaves out correct do you have a plan for what to do to replace the ones that don't survive the winter I think I think we're just going to have to see what the the survival rate is I think that if they were all gone that would be a different story than if we got half if we get about 50% survival and if you get 50% survival at what point do you go out and remove the cages off the saplings that are surviving yeah I just was just speaking with somebody about that on the committee I think if we can get them to survive a couple years with the cages um you know that would be you we'll try to do that and then at some point you know we know that they have to come out but U you know we're not we're not there yet I'd like to keep them protect them from the deer as long as possible okay good those were my questions I can't see if your hand is up it is it is thank you um you're broaching into a subject that I would be want to pursue as well traditionally when we have an applicant and they're cutting down trees we ask for replanting remediation do we do that with dead trees we are within our area of influence I mean obviously what the Boy Scouts have done at the top of the hill we have no influence in on but down in our area should we we we require that I don't recall requiring planting for cutting dead trees um so uh so if someone came in for a tree permit and they were cutting less than four trees there was two additional dead trees those trees we wouldn't ask for mitigation for that would still be kind of under my review for administrative work but if they were cutting a whole area I mean you know what's what's the alteration I mean it's that's sort of about you cutting down a bunch what the concern here is what happens once you cut them down what grows in and that's why the planting was important because to smother it with the natives is better than chasing the Buckthorn out of there after it's been established although I'm not sure any of these places don't have butt in it I mean force is pretty overrun by Buckthorn so I think I think when you're cutting Bunch down and you're altering an area that much you should be thinking about planting I know the Scouts have been out there um I know that you've done natural succession in other areas I don't know if you have a report on that I have a report on how that on how that's worked um so I I I think that that just takes a long time I think there's a change I think people are used to seeing trees but in my opinion as long as it's not Buckthorn or invasives even if it's coming in slowly that change is is okay the the reason I brought all this up was in the future if a boy scout wants to plant trees in our area we put on to a condition that there's a survival rate in order to survive that means people are going to have to go and water it at least water it or monitor it is that a condition we put in for future projects I I think they should plant them all in our area because the water is there um but I don't know I mean again we're at this point where I just said a few minutes ago I think we should make our conditions and not worry about how they happen because we're trying to protect the Wetland if you know someone plants some trees and I'm that's not part of that's not part of this right cor right so um if they come in and and you typically don't ask them to plant trees I I think that you could you could figure something out to do here because so many are coming down it hasn't come in as part of this application but um it would be like nice to know someone's devaluation about that I I think it's appropriate uh to ask for some something some vegetation um I I know I talked to Bill about this before about monitoring or modifying that request for town meeting to have some part of it as replanting guess that didn't happen but he knew that I was on to that commission's been on that but I couldn't yeah yeah so um yeah so uh I don't to be honest with you I think that you're on the right track I think replanting should be um planting should be discussed uh but let me segue into and I know we're not going to take much longer on this because boy I haven't started asking questions yet boy oh boy have we been talking about it so um I got a letter from Dave Williams and I put that on the website so I'm just going to read a little bit of it in the record Dave says that um on August 12th uh he went out there for you know two hours span and he noted a bunch of birds that he saw out in that area and he said without clear without this clearing of this old red Pines which has created a monoculture there which is true we have a monoculture of red Pines out in the Town Forest I would have never seen these birds in this area um during a 10-minute span he was he was thrilled to see so many birds um and there's a list of birds I don't know if there's let's see one two five so 10 20 he's got 50 Birds here that he saw and in that 10 minute span he probably saw 12 of them Dave Williams who is a ex science teacher uh said that the area and back of the um Council ring which I don't know the number uh the area and back of the council ring in his opinion had turned into um a shrub habitat that birds are feeding uh they can overwinter there they can have Escape cover and pretty soon that will probably be uh grow up into into a um like an Oak Grove or something like that but he was impressed so that's one letter I got about how well the reforestation was happening that buil can you let me know what how many years ago that had uh been cleared was it's a yellow one I think so that would be the first phase that one was the second phase so that would that was uh that three it's area three all right so it's February of 22 so in February of 22 and we're not seeing trees although I bet you there's some small trees out there uh we're seeing a lot more activity so I just take that into consideration um if I could add one thing to that that sure we we've had many meetings with the with the DCR Department of Conservation Recreation their Forester when this was years ago before we started this program and his opinion was we talked about the importance of rep his opinion was you don't need to replant at all because there are there are seedlings in the under story that are ready to grow and waiting for the opportunity to grow so we're seeing a bit of that in certain areas that even when they were the scouts were planting saplings they had to make sure that they weren't planting them on top of of another o so you know we're not suggesting that we should necessarily take that advice because we' like to have a kind of you know a variety of of native plants in there yeah uh but it's going to grow and so you know we'll we're certainly do all that we can to facilitate the best growth and we're working closely with with the our tree Mike Haniford on the type of of saplings that are that are planted so you know I think we're all on the same page we're all is Mike consulted on the the Scout yeah so he had he had a say in all those trees okay all right I have another question just came to me you indicated uh that unfortunately you weren't able to modify your request to town meeting we're lucky to have a town meeting member on this committee would you support an amendment once it comes to the floor if mamore asked for a certain amount of that 100,000 for invasives to be spent on be root um be root uh saplings could we do it this way since we don't know we're you know we have no control of what the bids are going to be if the bids come in say on the tree cutting the hardest part about the tree cutting in phase four is that we have this additional hand workk and how that's going to what the cost for that's all going to be if we could say that if the bids come in for that work and there's money and it comes in at less than 150,000 actually less than 160 because we got 10,000 already from DCR that the balance would could be applied to to replanting would that be acceptable because I guess what I'm getting at is you know if say the for for the invas because obviously that's such a huge priority if that ends up coming in you know more I'd hate to you know cut back on the invasives work for replanting when we are doing it it will get done without paying people to do it question for me I thought it was Chuck who brought it up no uh I don't I'm looking at so so you actually are stuck with only $50,000 for dead tree removal and $100,000 so what you should be saying is you would you would say yes to if there was any money left over from the bid for the the 50,000 dead trees or the bid for the $100,000 invasives because you're not you can't use any invasive money to the dead trees this the way you wrote it you have them you have them separated so yeah it later given to me that my but yeah so you you could I mean we could talk about this later if if but we wouldn't want to do it without you know we want to go up there and find out you get no no we don't we don't want to do that so if they came up with motion that said something like um if the bids come in low enough the the remaining money won't be spent on invasives they'll be on on a new invasive area it will be spent on be root um saplings to buy to reforest which is short areas you think we can do something like that I could yeah okay so we'll we'll work together on on some some Amendment or so yeah okay that's that seems to work it in so I have a question and it's actually not based on this it's just about all this talk that's going on tonight about invasives all you guys see keep mention is Buckthorn there are many other kinds ofes out there I'm sorry yes you're right is your is your 100,000 trying to get more than just Buckthorn again yes it's trying to address the all the invasives on the access roads and so we'll you know it's it's predominantly par along but you're right there are other things yeah I mean there treats of Heaven must like 12 War Y and especially and now and I think that the Trees of Heaven are mostly in in the compost area so where and and the the Japanese naweed is's a lot of that in the compos so that's I've had some discussions with Chris Cole about that is you know how we're going to deal with that because we don't want that moving into the Town Forest so can I so I was going to ask about Slash remember the gentleman from Western Mass who did the cut there was lots of Slash yes obviously on area five that's a whole different question because the log is going to be laid down there what about the other two areas what what you're thinking for how much slash you got I think there's a standard I can't recall was it two or two or three put there's a standard DCR right and I think that's been in the fire ORD and it's different for deciduous versus Conifer trees I believe it's actually even two or three feet yeah I think I think you're right yeah that was an issue for residents people walking in there so are you still going to allow that this gets into we don't have control on who's going to win the bid right that and if it because we can't just sell source for the person that has the equipment that we like that same person could bid again but are you going to put it into the bid um the slash height yes yeah yeah I control that and and do you know what that is going to be it's whatever was in I assume whatever was in it the last time which I think was two or three feet I can't recall right with with the gentleman from Western Mass um I don't think was actually specified so he fell back on the dcr's standards and that's why so much was left I don't remember it being specified although it wasn't yesterday so I'm not sure sure sure I remember that area back of the council ring was just loaded and that's the area that Dave Williams is saying is doing so well now it's been about two years I mean like you couldn't run through the place but but certainly it's not three foot high any right so um going back to Dave's letter I'm in full agreement with that I have no problem at all with the cutting and I'm glad to see that he's seeing the response in the birds my issue has always been uh cutting without the rest of the equation and so we've had the conversation I'll say it again on the record the issue I have is these plans of peac meil we come in to say want to cut some trees then you come in to say I want to clear some invasives but you don't have integrated plan where you are going to cut and then as part of the same overall project put this percentage of the money to do in planting of some kind so first of all we can see what the plan is and we can have some conditions on survivability as opposed to F has a good number um because what's your thresholds 10% good enough actually in the plantings that we ask for in residential areas we have a a 85 90% survival requirement so yes it's different in the forest but I'm just saying I don't like the fact that they're peac meal and we would be approving or not a cutting without knowing what the rest of the of the puzzle looks like which has been my issue for several years now um and it's I don't know what to say about that because you come back with the point that you don't know what money there will be for the following year I would rather see a plan where you said whatever money we get in any given year we're going to put X percent against whatever tree cutting is required that year y% against replanting and just so it's built in that there will be a ratio of this much taken out and This Much put in um so I still have that same objection because once again this is you want to cut a bunch of trees and not g to a to tell us much of anything on replacing you're talking about replanting yeah yeah and we've been doing one of the thought um again we've been talking about natural succession and again I want to reiterate I'm fine with what Dave Williams said but when you go look to some of the areas that have been cut for a while in area four in particular uh ja when I were in there for a different reason recently week and a half ago we stopped along there and we did see a fair number of small Oaks and some other trees but we saw a plethora of invasives including uh with at least one tree of heaven but a lot of a Buckthorn and so there there's a case where if you want to look at it from the positive perspective you say yes some of the more desirable trees are growing in look at it from the negative perspective there's lots of bad stuff growing in and if it's not controlled is that going to uh smother the oak trees that are these little things are trying to grow there's no plan to Foster the kind of growth that you want that we want but there is a plan there the $100,000 for invasives is to do exactly that it's to in these areas where we've especially the areas that we've cut and even areas that we haven't cut that's you know we're asking for a lot of money at Tom meeting we're hopeful that we're going to get it so and you know the Scouts have planted hundreds of trees things are growing on their own so you know I wish I could say that you know we'll be able to plant you know 500 trees in the next two years or that we'll be able to you know deal with all of the rest of the the invasiv in the in the Town Forest that's going to take years for that to happen and you know $100,000 is a lot of money so we're making we're I think we're doing everything that we possibly can to to to do exactly what you what you want which is not just cut trees but deal with invasives and and plant nutrients so let me paint a negative picture because that's what I do um so if you look at it from from my perspective you're cutting trees you're saying you're cutting and in the in the narrative it says cut all the hazard trees of course you're not getting all the hazard trees you're not getting all the hazard trees right near popular walking areas you get many of them uh invasives are growing in you hope to get to them if the money is improved in the future um in the meantime you are doing plantings counting on volunteer efforts most of those plantings they they may not be dead but they're certainly not thriving we have to see in the spring whether some of them come back but right now I see more sticks than I see uh plants that are not grow and so that's a pretty negative perspective that's a pretty negative picture and so you're coming here again to ask for permission to do more of the same right okay can I paint a little bit of a of a Rosier picture be hard not to um in the event this project does not go forward these trees are going to blow down on their own uh they may not even be touching the ground we'll be in each other but that canopy will open up the sunlight's going to get through and whatever is there in that seed bank is going to grow and no one's going to go out control any invasive whatsoever no one's going to go out and do any types of planting whatsoever so a no action alternative is kind of the worst case where there's there's there's no control on invasives and and and no management of beneficial species this is a program that over how many years when how long has it been your your 2000 2020 so for four going on close to five years going close to five years um they've managed to not only remove the hazards but have stewarded to some extent planting through volunteer efforts and and some of those may not be known too far in advance but they have a little bit of a record I think of pulling those resources together of of getting enough plantings in there to the point where Mr Williams is observing some very beneficial impacts from their beneficial effects from from the species of trees and the diversity of trees and the diversity of wildlife that that they're attracting so I don't think it's the worst case that that you're looking at I think this program you know has shown that so far they've been able to manage it to a very positive outcome so let me point out that's a false equivalency that you just did you know because on the one one extreme where they do nothing but I'm not thinking that I'm thinking of a middle ground where they do some cutting do some planting and invasive management and doing an integrated ongoing fashion as opposed to you know laao this time we're going to cut cut trees this time we're going to do invasives and we're going to count on somebody magically doing some plantings that may magically on their own survive but we we're doing exactly that we are cutting and then the next piece would be the invasives and then you know the scouts the trees for reading program they still have a fair amount of money and it's ready to go for New planting so it's it's all there and again I can't tell you if we're GNA even get the 150 that we're asking for at town meeting I can't certainly can't tell you what's going to happen on the next town meeting I can't promise anything without knowing how much money we have and I'm not looking for promises I understand that whole thing I'm looking for a plan an integrated plan this is the plan okay so there any more questions from anybody in the commission yeah I had a quick question maybe just turn it into a statement so you don't have to answer it so we move on I was wondering why the road shoulder was chose you have $100,000 let say you get that money and out of the entire town Forest you've decided that next to the road which is probably the most Disturbed area and will Contin to be mostly Disturbed and probably filled in with who knows what and there's a seed bank there why are you expending all your money there isn't there a better spot that you want to protect that you could spend your $100,000 on to eliminate invasives besides next the road we can cut that down with you know DPW equipment each year and have it at Bay I was just wondering if you thought about that or maybe are you locked into to cutting this or if another place came up when when we had part did their assessment their inventory of where the engraves were I could probably pull the map up to show you but most of the areas were on the trails or on the roads because that's where the sun gets in yeah that's what like most plants that's what they need so and so that's why most of them so you know it's not like we're saying that you know we're only going to do with the roads but that's where most of the buck Thorn is is along the roads certainly other areas we've had other volunteers at various times have come out between Scouts and and Amazon came out they they pulled it and pulled bu Thor in other places so you know we will certainly before we put a bid package together for where this 100,000 is spent we will certainly look at the areas and so you're not locked into the road you could you could change it if you invasives anywhere where the anywhere anywhere the invasives are in the I just thought maybe there was a spot that you almost eradicated it and if you just hit it one more time then then it seemed like you know you really have made a difference over there I mean maybe there's a spot that hardly has any you're not think now thinking about volume but you could eradicate that'll be part of the bid package yeah all right I just wanted to mention it I'm done just one comment from me I would hate to lose a good project when we are in search of a perfect project and knowing that there's only four of us here tonight we really need to make sure that um we vote in a way that this project can go to town meeting before our next um conservation meeting consideration thank you okay anybody the public want to say anything can come up and you have to stand near the podium or the microphone won't catch you and the camera Nancy Dr PE Street and a member of um Town Force committee um just to kind of reiterate we are we're going by some of the experts who are telling us what areas of the Town Forest to Target for the invasive specifically for this so it's not that we we specifically chose the the roads themselves but we're going on the assessments of parte in terms of the most concentrated areas that we want to Target first all so and thank you very much for your comment Mar I appreciate that so having said that do anybody want to bring up a motion this is an RDA right yes okay so I move that we vote for a negative determination on this RDA just Telly I second that wter toits in favor of it Tony rakas in favor baramore in favor do you have any you gonna what was that wait a minute I didn't see what that was I think you stopped halfway through my better senses this is Brian I'm in favor so we do let's go over some condition sorry what was did Brian vote I'm in favor oh thank you thanks Brian I was wondering if you could go over the conditions um fill in the ruts uh any compacted area will have to be arated uh no closer than 25 feet to the Wetland unless this is modified unless it's a approved in advance by Conservation Commission M or myself so you have an opportunity to have us go out there um slash height do we have a slash height uh let me just say following the DCR standards okay yeah and it's for Conifer so there's a difference following t standards the areas that are being done is 512 and 13 to cut all the wood into sections so it touches the ground that that'll only apply to area five area five and um there will be no freeze fell into the Wetland or parts of trees or or pots of trees or or slash being somehow getting in there like someone have to clean it up by it happens by mistake any other conditions it's already in the forest cutting plan but just uh reminder that some of the trees are being topped not they being felled at ground level yep umad should we specify frozen ground I know it's in it was in the plan so could I just ask so we had expected that we would go fren ground in in the last contract right and the contractor came to us in November and said it's been very dry this is actually a very good time to do the work and it was fortunate that he did because if you recall the winter this year was so warm if we had waited then we would have had a problem so I would if I could just offer that you know it' be you know so that makes sense um trying to think of a way to have control over the condition um because if you remember the guy from Western Mass it was a really Frozen time and for different kind of uh issues he didn't quite get to go ahead in time but time he went it began to tha that's why it all got chewed up yes I agree so if there was a way that we target he targeted for the dry and the Frozen and there was some trick mechanism where chuck could say put change of conditions give the go even though it's not quite Frozen not quite absolutely why don't you just have me uh why don't you just um with the approval of the conservation administrator this the work can start in between the time frame set by DCR I think we have some safeguards with the with the ruts with the with the ating I don't get any closer I don't know if we need to add add any does anyone think of any so if they're doing this in dry conditions what would be I don't know I mean Frozen we haven't had Frozen might be a reality of global World warming I mean that's miss that and um DCR has already given us the limit of May 15 through February 28th and we are expecting it'll happen this winter so we're already into November through February so it is winter and last year or whatever year they did it when it was warm I didn't I didn't see any major problems like oh we're not gonna have to do that I think what's important here is that we have a contractor and that's great you know you're going to get a contractor but even if that falls apart I think that bill can ask the DP W I'm not saying they're going to get to it right away but I just think that he has that in his back pocket if he ever had to say this really fell apart on us can't leave it like this and they did help get back in there I want to put in that February with the the phase two yeah the guy from Western Mass yeah yeah because it did we did get a a warm spell yeah when he started it was cold and then it warmed up and we got a bit of rain okay all right I anything else with the approval of the conservation administrator okay Brian would it help to include a condition to prepare a shortterm within a couple of years uh some type of a plan or an outline to address some of the concerns that you brought up I don't think that's fair as much as I like the idea I think we need to do conditions on this thing that they're applying for yeah I think that I think the town the people that use it will um will ask for more they'll say Hey you know when are you going to stop planting well hey all the invas are growing in you're going to be pushed by the public for sure that's great in a way because that's town meeting members you know so I think this thing Will Roll Along um I like what you said about if you don't do anything they're going to fall all over the place so it seems like we're taking care of the immediate issue and I'm not sure if that invasive is the second immediate issue so would would conditions specifically address addressing invasives facilitate future funding if there's if if there's a requirement that says that X percentage or X number or some some measurable value of invasives have to be removed or X number of of plantings have to occur within two years or 3 years to 70% or even 50% survival that's a condition in an order in an approval is that something the forest committee goes to town meeting and says look now we have this legal obligation so to meet this to me part of the issue there is a lot of the places that where they wouldn't do the replanting when they have done already is not in our jurisdiction um and so in the buffer zone that is within our jurisdiction place but they did that's not I mean up by that's not within spitting this into us um and so again I don't think that's appropriate for this as much as I like the idea um I think we need need to decide this on the merits and condition it on the merits thank you just an idea I know any other conditions and you and you know that you can just make a motion to that effect and see if it flies with anyone else you don't have to get permission but um four members I can anticipate no I'm just telling you there there's another there would have been another way to do it if you felt like it you know if you felt strongly about it yeah that's a good point I mean I do like the idea I just I just think there's a lot of public pressure here and I think that you know we have a town Force committee their one purpose is to Monitor and Safeguard what happened in the Town Forest you know maybe someday they'll you know won't be worried about the Pines falling over and they can address something else okay we've done a lot in the last five years we've got we've accomplished yet and we have another hearing that's waiting for us so I think we can wrap up these conditions and move on that would be great I don't have any other I would do it that we don't have another move that's just the conditions because we already vote on the conditions do we vote on conditions I don't think so we don't to these are the conditions no done those are the conditions there's if there's no more then we're good to move on good thank you okay thank you very much okay for next thing we're going to go out of order quickly to cover an enforcement situation I understand Michael Rivers is with us 445 Pro Street Mike can you unmute yourself turn on your video if you'd like yep okay so Mike go ahead why don't you tell us what's up okay um so i' I've been out of out of the state for um the majority of this last month but uh I have I have um since last time last meeting I have uh P you know cut back all the multiflor rows and Buckthorn and you know that was really overgrown with a lot of very aggressive stuff so I cut all most of that back exposed the site to work in and I started to hand do some handwork along a ro there's a a wood retaining wall on the South Bank of that that's bail that was kind of barely exposed there was some probably crushed stone that rolled off the edge of it so I I doing some hand workk to expose that before I grab a machine and get in there and do the um the bulk of the work and that's where I stand now okay um so to try and make this quick for all of us so what do you thinking the next Milestone is uh I'm GNA continue to I've got pretty much half that retaining wall exposed going to finish Hand by hand with that um and then probably bring the machine in with maybe in in two weeks from now and at that point it'll be fast um it'll just be pulling everything back it'll be fast to get the the coconut um coogs and the crush Stone base in there and then my uh um s my um Willow uh saplings will be ready right around November is when they'll be um ready okay so our next meeting is November 13th and because of the holidays we only have one meeting in both November and December so it sounds like you probably should come back on the meeting in December I'm not sure what day is but but the uh the second Wednesday the second Wednesday okay yeah yeah okay any questions from the commission I was just going to check the date it's the 11th of December and I would love to hear that your project has been completed by then if your willow saplings will be in available in mid November it sounds like you ought to be able to get everything done before that December meeting and if so you could tell us that we could come out for a site visit and take a look at it before the 11th we would normally go out on the 9th to take a look at things for the meeting on the 11th that sounds good okay okay site visit on the 11th okay no site visit on the 9th okay the Mone before okay I think all set all right thanks thank you for sticking with us all right no problem thank you bye bye all right bye so now to the last hearing of the evening which is 29 Green Meadow Drive um who's here for work you want to read the blur or you want to just go with it I just go with it sure interested time sure um [Music] um you want to uh you yes hey so um there you go talk hey please introduce yourself for the uh for the record and bring us up to date with your project and you have permission to share the screen and we'll uh sit back and listen thank you thank you Mr Chon so hello everyone good evening my name is uel sha I'm a resident of wedding since 2022 I moved here with my wife and we bought our home uh at 29 Green Meadow Drive which is the property in Bashan I've been here since uh last two years um since then I've been blessed with uh three kids uh one two-year-old daughter uh three months old twins and that's one of the reasons why I I couldn't be there in person so so I I apologize uh now I I'm not an environmental scientist or I've never presented to this commission before uh so please allow me some leway if I make some errors I apologize in advance um I've tried my best to put a plan together uh after uh talking to um individuals after talking with miles from partti here I've also consulted Mr uh Chuck tone who has been extremely helpful with the process and and and the support um I'm going to share my my screen so just let me know once you're able to see it we see it okay perfect um okay so let me just go into uh the high level summary so uh the project is about invasive plant management and Native planting it's uh for my back and and and just by hearing couple of other projects that I heard uh it's like probably about 250 times smaller in Scopes it's it's really really small uh there there are no tree cuttings uh no no construction no swimming pool nothing like that no heavy machiner involved it's just a proposal for invasive plant management and Native planting um uh so it's it's it's in an area which is part of the Johnson Woods property uh it has doesn't overlap with the conservation buffer zone and that's one the reason why I'm here the the problem is that because it's part of the conservation it it's it has been completely been unattended and the back head is now overrun with conquered grape wines that is highly aggressive it's climbing killing trees it's threatening some of the houses um uh and and then on top of that there are also a lot of other invasive plants that we have identified such as Pon that continue to spread and I I strongly believe that if if left unchecked they will also enter the adjacent unmanaged um conservation landine uh which is currently under raing open Land Trust um and and due to the conservation restriction the current residents my neighbor or the HOA they are not able to manage the vegetation um the the solution I have proposed uh for for your approval is uh identification manual removal of all those ident identified aggressive and invasive plant pieces uh with herbicide application coming uh done by licens uh practitioners um in late fall uh 2024 uh after that we would like to install new native shrubs um as a as a mitigating Factor uh add some ground cover add a tree as well as lman seed uh during the Spring uh of 2025 and I would also like the the the contractor uh which we have decided on is part here who will do the initial removal will also do a followup uh around in early summer in 2025 um the plan was presented to the HOA Committee of Johnson Woods the Board of Trustees and the landscape Committee of the um Johnson woods and they have approved the plan as of um uh 5th of October if the commission over here gives a favorable decision then I would like to proceed with the plan in November 24 and as I mentioned there will be another phase in in summer of 25 and then I will as there will be regular maintenance by Resident that's me um going forward so that's that's the high level summary I put some slides together to walk you through uh to walk you through the plan uh I know some of you have visited my S uh some of you haven't uh so I'll take uh 5 10 minutes if if I have that time to give you some more color and details around it okay sure uh but fairly brief please yeah all right um so this is a high level um bird's eye view in terms of where this uh property is it's in the west of town of ring um it's this particular building which which is a town home I share it with my neighbor and the project scope is as highlight in the red box over here uh it borders uh the reding open Land Trust which uh which is behind my my place um this I picked it up from a S plan uh it shows the buffer zones uh and the conservation markers the line at the top is the 25 uh ft of zone of natural vegetation uh the property in question is uh number 15 um and the uh um this box here identifies where I would like to uh run this project um so if I take a photo of this this was taken last year um as you can see the Border indicates the buffer zone over here there are the conservation markers there is a stone wall and and the area behind is what is um uh the the reading open Land Trust um there's a lot of dead uh vegetation here uh um that has been consumed by the invasive and the wines um if I take a photo during the summer this is what it looks like uh the part which is highlighted by highlighted by red that's the conquered grape it it just comes up in summer and just takes over everything it takes over the trees it takes over some of the houses uh that's that's what's really killing everything and and that's the primary uh root cause that I would like to uh have this uh project done um so we we went around with the help of part here we identified multiple invasives over there so there of course there's a concote grape there's garlic mustard common privet there's Buon um poison ivy I understand poison ivy is is is not invasive uh but because it's so close to where we live um and we have small kids um there's a a little danger over there the plan in terms of removal is that we will have part here their field technicians who maintain Massachusetts side applicator license they will come they will identify they will manually handful cut uh uh those invasive plans and they will apply herbicide through cut and dab technique uh with the approval um we will remove this and we will in early summer we will return to uh you know uh uh put more uh native trees the herbicide we are planning to use is gon 3A we have provided the details and data sheets for that already in terms of native plants there are some native plants that we have identified which are there we they'll be there we we don't plan to touch them um on top of that we want to add more native uh plants so there will be native shrubs that will be adding summer sweet and winter Berry we would like to add some more native ground cover as well uh there is one native tree that uh we are planning which is the the dog and then in order to maintain a good balance for the rest of the space we would like to have a Lowman uh seating using natural fertilizer um this is the last slide so this is what the plan looks like um on the left uh the big three green Bobs that you see are the existing trees so we're not touching them uh in order to maintain some buffer from the stone wall we going to leave like 5 ft buffer uh there will be uh uh funds over there um then we are going to plant four new shrubs uh which will be native shrub summer sweet and Minter Berry which are highlighted by this small green circle and one tree uh the flowering Dog Wood uh we plan to if the commission approves we plan to have a very temporary uh bird bath and wood bench with some ferns here which will be outside the 25 ft uh buffone um so that's that's the plan that I have that's all I wanted to share umk let me know if you have any questions Martha do you want to take people through a site visit um sure um on our site visit we did see the markers that are marked in Blue on this plan and um they had a salamander picture on them and a blue label on top that said conservation restriction so we asked um the homeowner and Chuck both um to see if they could find out what the terms of that conservation restriction are um we also noticed that on the woodsy side of the conservation bounds um there were plastic trash water bottles empty flower pots that kind of thing um in among the invasives that you're proposing to remove um and uh the homeowners association manager Steve Kerwin was there um and he pointed out to us that the picture in the back row there are three trees that are existing trees the Big Green blobs um at least one of them has a hole through move from one side to the other at the root base um and he was questioning whether um he could get permission to take that down and I know that's not part of this project but I wanted to make sure that Chuck knew about that and also if we go back a few slides to the overview of the um property a couple of slides further back that one one more forward yeah um on the other side of the house the 15 neighbors side there are along the property Edge some trees that are completely enwrapped in Bittersweet and um I was noticing those and thinking we need to tell Steve Kerwin about that if he's doing any tree work he should really have somebody cut those Bittersweet Vines so that we protect the trees on that border on what's the left side of this picture near the place where it changes to Green um okay and um I'm glad to hear the applicant saying that he's not planning to do anything with the native plants that are in that area behind the blue boxes because there were elderberries there and Arrowwood that we saw saw it's a little late in the season to see the jewel weed we could see the remains of some ferns back there um so I'm concerned about looming and seeding in that zone of natural vegetation behind the markers um and that's my biggest concern with this project is the proposal to L and Seed behind there I think that's all I have ja do you want to talk about you found we looked up the conservation and restriction sure so I uh I checked into the uh application in the order of conditions for Johnson's Woods in this area there are two permits uh for different sections of Johnson's woods and um what I found in back of number 15 and along this area here um is not a conservation restriction but an easement and uh specifically uh the last conservation administrator asked for the easement um of the zone of natural vegetation uh to be set forth in the deed and so they tell us that there's a deed out there book and page and this easement uh which is part of the zone of natural vegetation which is the area back of the blue squares uh is um is an easement now what the easement is for and from reading this it's just to establish the fact that this area is a zone of natural vegetation so it's in our order of conditions it's also reported at the registry of these so it's uh it's definitely uh known about you'll find it in two two uh different areas so it's not a conservation restriction so the plaques are a little misleading I think the you know the applicant will find that helpful the Conservation Commission understands what what we allow we don't allow in the zone of natural vegetation um while I have the floor I'm just going to mention that although it's conquered grape um I don't know how much of the property is going to be modified based on I think that last slide showed what you wanted but it didn't show what was going to be removed uh that one there it would be interesting to know how much or if any of that green area exists now and the conquered grae does not get into that area um because right right now when I look at this I think all of the green you know in that zone of natural vegetation line is straight through the center of it just about I'm thinking that that's all the area you're going to be modified none of that is lawn now so that would be my my one question um yes and I don't know if I can do this but it's it's basically this is the only area where new lawn would be added uh this the neighboring piece there is already lawn here right I think over here I I'm I'm not an expert here but I think this is not lawn on this side it's more of a moss um yeah so I I would assume what what I would like to do is have a bit of a uniformity if possible if you if you guys agree but the new lawn the real modification is happening in this area only this is where the um uh grape wines have kind of taken over but they go all the way to this tree they have going on this direction as well uh they they're kind of spreading in the uh conservation land um on this side but but all the roots are coming in this from from somewhere from here um I I don't know Mr Chon if that's that's helpful if that that's work that was very helpful I that that answered my question for sure if I just go back over here right so this is this is what I already highlighted in the red is is the exact same piece that that's being highlighted in red in this Photograph okay um any questions from Commissioners I I wasn't at the site visit but I reviewed the application and one question I did want to ask is uh the name of an applicator was was given in in in the presentation um I went to look up the license I couldn't find the license so if we could just get a copy the license or proof that the applicator is current with his with his license just confirm that good condition and for someone who doesn't do these types of presentations every day I thought this was a very good presentation thank you oh um thank you uh thank you for the feedback um sorry just just so that I understand your OD is it you want to understand if miles has an license or if part here would own people or or they employ people who have that license the person who would be doing the work okay yes so I I don't think Miles himself miles is the guy with whom I I partner who was a consultant he helped me um reviewing some of this um aspects I think his company uh will employ people who who would have those license I don't have the names but I can I can get that information from you yeah we just want to make sure that the people that are doing the work are in fact licensed yes that that is a a strict criteria I put on him uh for for this project but I will ensure that you get those details thank you um so I know you would love to have lawn connected to your existing lawn that the homeowners association Mo but I believe that the rules for zone of natural vegetation does not permit us to give permission for LOM and Seed lawn it does allow us to give permission for a ground cover um that would be a native ground cover and shrubs and trees and you've proposed some shrubs and trees if you left the um Arrowwood and the Elderberry I think there would be quite a lot of shrubs there you're proposing putting in some ferns but um I think I would like to see the ferns or other ground cover coming all the way up to the line delineated with the um blue markers um and I know you'd love to have more lawn you've kind of got short changed on lawn behind your half of the house there but um but the Restriction does really say that that needs to be natural vegetation natural ground cover shrubs trees um that's it would you so um obviously you know I heard after the the um site walk uh where this was heading and I did some searching on the other Town sites and looked at their vegetation schedule and what they recommend um there is one and I could provide that to the commission and to the applicant that has grasses I don't know I don't know if that qualifies but it seems to uh be interesting at least are you talking Turf Lawn that gets mow grass or are you talking native grasses I I I didn't look into it but I just noticed that in the ground cover section of this one pounds um I might have even sent it to you um tonight uh not to you but to the applicant it talked about ground cover and within that list there were grasses so what it's worth maybe it's just grasses it might be those big humics type situation if if if if I may um you Mission um one one of the key motivation for me is uh of course I I I want to maintain a good habitat like right now it's it's really wild it's it's getting out of control so I I do want to uh restore it right I I want to do what is good for the environment uh but it's going to have a a huge financial implication for me like uh it's it's it's in thousands of dollars in a high single digit uh just for the uh removal and and and then adding new shrubs and trees it's it's it's even more so if if if if I'm doing that I I would like some leway I would like some motivation so that my kids and my family the community can can enjoy the space uh I'm not asking to you know remove any trees or cut down any big trees I'm just asking that hey can while we do this uh while I'm helping to make it better can I add some extra Green Space to it and and I'm happy and I'm happy to work around with this uh but I do would like to make this place that is usable that we can access and enjoy the uh enjoy the outdoors so if there are some grass pieces which you feel that hey you know uh that are more environmental friendly uh and and I'm okay I don't want to use any Turf Lawns if there are some natural uh naturally occurring grass that you feel hey maybe you use this C this is better I'm happy to I'm happy to work with that I I took the initiative to discuss this point with part here after after you guys gave me that feedback on Monday uh I had an hour long discussion with party hey what is it that we can do and he he provided a couple of recommendations hey look maybe you can look at no lawn um uh he he he that maybe you can you look at white clover that can probably help with you know some kind of pollination help improve the habitat for the bees and things like that so I'm I'm I'm willing to work with the conservation uh hope we we can find um um a way that can um that can achieve both our goals right in the spirit of preserving the habitat yeah I mean I would say where where this is a project where invasive species are being removed it's a it's a beneficial project and you know I I know in a lot of cases we we typically require ground cover shrub layer and and and a tree layer to be part of a a restoration um but where there's really no other construction going on here this is essentially an invasive control program right I think we could I think there's a little bit of leeway where we could certainly reduce the number of individual plantings and and and go with some type of a wetland seed mix or a wildflower mix or like a you know a wetland flower mix that I think it was brought up but that area that I'm seeing in pink but it may be red that's a native vegetated buffer strip that that's being posed with ferns in it yeah and I um and and that's within what line uh that's it's the first five feet from the Wetland right so it's zero to five and then 5 to 25 is where markers 20 so in instead of instead of the the sand and loan that's what I'm talking about I'm not talking about the the pink area with the ferns I'm talking about the the the LOM and grass area um in in instead of extending a a more what's the right word a more comprehensive planting regime that has shrubs in in trees keeping that kind of a a low Wetland ground cover however it would still be a no mozo it would still be mozo still wouldn't likely become a soccer pitch that's right yeah it wouldn't be mowed but I don't think we in exchange for having the invasive species removed i' I'd rather have I'd rather have low ground cover than you know grape Vines smothering anything anything there there yeah like whether it's more jewelweed or whether it's it's a wetland grass or something so what are you suggesting about the Elderberry the Arrowwood we did see some poppers in there either Quaking Aspen or Rel yeah I mean if those are there I would leave them okay so leave the natives work around the natives and I'm thinking when you're talking about um the flower wildf flower seed I'm thinking of that place where he put in his putting green in the backyard right and he has all these blackeyed Susans and things growing behind the 25 foot line something like that but but just to be to make it clear the things we're talking about are natural vegetation of different kinds some maybe lower some may be taller some may be in the grass family some may not but it's still not going to be a place you can mow short to have you know a barbecue or things like that on it do you understand that is it okay I I I I understand right and I think that's why one of the counter I made was about the no more lawn what what I was told that Hey look it's a no more lawn it's uh um it's it's a bit more friendly you don't have to move that so uh if if if you can share a couple of hey look Mr applicant this are four or five options the conservation is um okay with um and if if that is something which is a healthy compromise uh I I'm I'm happy to work around with that Walter I can't see is your a hand up do you have anything you want to add you've covered everything I was on the site visit uh it would be nice to have it look much more aesthetically than it does now and removing the invasives is a positive thing the only dilemma is there's some picture or some place we could have him look at to see what's going to look like if we have this other alternative grasses alternative growth so he really understands what he's getting into my my question is like you guys are the experts over here is the what you're proposing is it going to be good for you know a one or twoe toddler to to run around and just enjoy Outdoors right I understand it won't be like a perfectly cut T class I don't want that I I want it a a bit more natural but would it be good for small kids to just go and enjoy that space so I I don't think that um the Conservation Commission should do the research and figure out what you're going to put in there this many things out there and if marer doesn't know it maybe a landscape architect would have some suggestions I would I understand that there's a certain part of this that has to happen now but like Walter said we should look at a plan so maybe this can happen in two phases if if moving forward with Native ground cover um is where we're heading but if if it's a no-o then then it doesn't matter um but to get that first treatment in this season and the planting was never happening until spring and we could have yeah come back in this in the spring you know not not at our next meeting but in the spring with a plan to review to see what this is going to look like that might be a good Next Step maybe more January early February because they take a couple of meetings to to work through some of the plant details yeah I I would yeah I would still be a little concerned in given a lot of Hope to the idea that a two-year-old could run around out there I I don't know what you picture that a two-year-old doing while they're run around if they're just running through the grasses sure I mean I did that as a kid but if you're thinking of some more traditional play area I think I think that would not be happening yeah and if it were my two-year-old I would want to make sure I do a good thorough tick check when the child comes back from running around in among the blackeyed Susans yeah I think to a two-year-old you know even vegetation that that comes up to you know our knees or our waist looks like a an impenetrable Forest I don't know how many two-year-olds going to go running into the wood I thought you're going to go the opposite direction you haven't seen my two-year-old right now that's what all said yeah yeah I also think that it should be left up to you how that how the final plantings look within the the restrictions that we're asking for just because there's a whole variety of costs and you know it it it may turned out it it may turn out that it it's easier faster and and cheaper and less maintenance to you know to put in shrubs than it is to get a wetland seed mix at 140 something bucks a pound sometimes and you know spray at Water you know prepare the prepare the ground you know ply it water it and and whatnot so I I think you when you're coming up with your planting plan you you also want to think about what some of the long-term maintenance might be in terms of watering and invasive control and and and things like that so so it sounds like are we ready to talk through conditions before we have a motion are you gonna move this are you going to continue it but just allow the invasive control uh that was set up for November I was thinking that we would move it um but e either way see what the commission says but I have no objection to having them do the invasive control um but I think it's important that the applicant doesn't Envision six inch tall ground cover that their toddler can wander around in safely because that's not often what you find in native plants you're going to have more of the jewel weed and the um ferns at that ground level which is perfectly safe for the kids kids love to play with jewel weed um but I also think that there's a lot of vegetation in there that you want to preserve but you're going to need to go back year after year to fight back the grapes and the Bittersweet and stuff like that so um I think a condition would need to allow repeated um maintenance of keeping down the invasives I would also add that that the purpose of the blue markers is to conserve a zone of natural vegetation right and and that zone is the Wetland protection act talks about our bws talk about is to provide a buffer for water quality for plants for animals for amphibians um and you really wouldn't want people walking around through a buffer I mean that that's why it's a buffer right that's why we have that zone of native vegetations to provide that extra native buffer and and we generally don't advocate for people to get in that space I if right now we we don't walk it but it's it's gone crazy right I I understand we want it to be like if it was perfectly okay if there were no invasive there were no gr Point gr point I wouldn't I wouldn't have come to you um for any kind of project right I I would lift it untouched but but that's not what's going on um for whatever reason the invasives have taken over the great points have taken over they they are planning like once it goes in in the conser ation land then uh I I don't think there's anyone walking in those to to even come and tell you hey look this is there something uh bad happening over here so I'm putting a lot of uh a lot of my time uh resources you guys are also doing that I think s interrupt we we understand that we just want to make sure that that that we're clear that in in the space beyond the the blue boxes that it's really an area that that that shouldn't be really shouldn't be used it needs to be left in a natural condition and and shouldn't be thought of as a place where where children on a regular basis or anyone else on a regular basis is is going to access yeah people do occasionally walk into their zone of natural vegetation it's not why I said regularly right regularly is the key word there um but I thought was going to happen um and I know you guys seem to be heading in the opposite direction don't see how you can just give direction and an approval because this is hard to understand even though you probably all think that you're very clear I so the applicant should have enough time to research whatever he wants for ground cover and if it will stand people walking on it then he should be able to I mean that's fine if that if it's going to do that and uh you know I know there's some legation out there that you want left but um you know maybe what we what we found out here is that this is a small area but it's it's pretty important to get it right and and maybe parer would be great at the invasive removal but as far as the revation within the zone of natural vegetation kind of combining what the commission wants and what you want har might not be able to to fill that bucket and we might have to look to another landscape architect or another uh company that just does planting um to try to figure out what they know about this area and then come back to the commission with a plan and we can say oh yeah we get it these are all Native he's happy with it we're happy with it and it can move forward and then you'd have all your costs and all your understanding about what can happen and not happen out there that's kind of why I mentioned like is there a certain part that we want to move forward but then I thought later on that you move forward with some of this kind of locked in you're going to stop spending money and then you're locked in to doing the whole project or at least doing the invasive portion so I don't know if the commission is ready to approve or just approve a portion and have them come back in January second meeting in January first meeting in February with a plan from a garden person um to that would you really understand both sides and come up with a a better situation than just throwing stuff out there so we would to prove the invasive removal and not just allow it yeah not like I'm already half of per no guess right so you can do the invasive removal but you wouldn't have approval for putting anything in there without uh coming back with the planting plan we would get to look at it review it agree with it or not and only approving the November treatment the spring treatment if there's one or any other removal is not being approved right this is just as just November treatment and does the November treatment include application of herbicide cut and dab absolutely that's the first St okay and does that need permitting by us I think it does it does but we've we've reviewed it we we understand it's garon 3A and it's done by a licensed applicator we we have some conditions here okay I just this is not ready from this discussion tonight because I don't think I mean I know jewel weed is I I think it's okay but I don't know if I would okay so be great so rather than going round and round um so it sounds then that we're looking for a continuance um for the planting plan Mar for the planting we're not going to do a separate approval explicit approval for the uh in this invasive removal continue the hearing to talk about a planting plan when the homeowner has been able to do his homework and come back with some ground cover that meets his needs and then we can decide if it meats or I needs okay and at one point or another in this process I'd like to put in a condition of removing the plastic trash from the zone of natural vegetation I think the homeowner will probably want to do that anyway but and the water bottles place that is unaccessible at all but yeah of course of course it I would think this first piece of work would be the time to do it because it going to be clearing all that vegetation out so you can get to it all okay just so that I I sorry I I need a clarification so you are saying that the only piece which is unclear is on the this green ground cover piece but the other shrubs trees which which we I have highight lighted here is that okay or that's or you still want to review I'm just trying to understand do you want the whole thing to be torn apart and start from just what's only what you highlighted yeah yeah I'm happy with Dogwood and Winterberry and summer sweet and hay scented Fern those are all great um and I I like your area of fern in the the back but I just don't want LOM underneath your dog wood in the 5 to 25 foot area that's where we're looking for for ground cover that's not grass and it could be wild flowers it could be ferns it could be um you know whatever a landscaper recommends that would meet your needs and the natural vegetation and not lawn and there are apparently some native grasses that would qualify okay okay so um would you agree to continuance then until say the first meeting in January no not the first meeting let's let's get it to 2 first meeting would be the 8th second meeting will be the 22nd I think the 22nd would be better than the first more time right well the first meeting is always hard too short commission too so is that okay with you uh so just so that I understand um again I apologize I I'm getting a thumbs up for invasive right right now I can proceed with that in November but I can't do anything else until the plan for replantation is approved on 22nd reviewed and approved on 22nd did I understand it correctly yes you can do all your research and homework and have plan in place that we could review and discuss with you at that point okay and should be available for you to start planting by the time spring planting season has come around it in January or even in February you'll be able to start planting in the spring okay okay um and and when I go through this homework process and Landscaping AR architect if the plan of replantation changes a little bit is is that okay or do I have to stick with this dog wood and or what I have put here if if they come up hey maybe this is a because I I'll have to go to someone else maybe they come up with a different plan will that be okay okay yeah absolutely consult with Chuck he has been great I I I I can assure you he had a big uh support like thank you Mr tone okay so at this point can I have a motion to continue to January 22nd I move to continue 23 Green Meadow to J 29 Green Meadow to January Ary 22nd second 2025 I'll second that toins in favor Tony rakus in favor martham Moore in favor rainbow in favor okay thank you thank you very much uh good night good night good night Chuck Miner edit on the website is it's listed as 23 yeah okay okay he got me earlier with the phase five cutting yeah okay uh violation notices where we talked about 445 nothing else new on the others um do we want to talk about 16 Beverly no well we can talk about that now that's not a problem uh 16 Beverly this is a potential minor plan change all right on the on the board so um we approved this project uh which has an order of conditions 270 0772 was issued August 9th 2023 at 16 Beverly Road um through working with the building department and meeting their um requirements for the building code on the deck there appears to be a stainless steel chimney and the deck could not be near the stainless steel di chimney there were two options that could take place so the framing of the deck is orientated perpendic to the house and will be secured to concrete foundation the foundation has two penetrations associated with the chimy the anchoring needs to be a minimum par code 6 in uh from The Edge a distance and moving the framing to accommodate this requirement so um the framing has to shift over he had an option to make it smaller or make it bigger making it smaller didn't seem to be appetizing it's getting no closer to the Wetland the Wetland is screen North Straight Ahead yeah uh the other change is this retaining wall he simply explains this retaining wall is this change and the retaining wall is intended to reduce the amount of Fu I would need to put behind retaining no other reason exact same length is just the mirror image these two changes in my opinion are insignificant to this project because it is a deck there still is a deck there's a retaining wall there still is a retaining wall both are not getting closer to the Wetland um and people who have gone out there understand that this is huge like 10 or 12 foot drop off just beyond this and then no one's going no work is happening in that area so I would recommend a determination that's insignificant and um forward the different why he's adding fill behind the wall was there area that was low enough he's trying to level it off or yeah I think I think again this is someone with kids and he's trying to like make this flat area out uh you know behind the wall between the house and the garage but this is not the existing giant retaining wall this is a smaller retaining wall that he got permissioned to build in the yard right the the driveway runoff would run down towards the big tall retaining wall you see this retaining wall we approved it yeah so that's one of them this existed yeah and now he's just making this little okay I agree instead of going this way he's going this way it's not much of a it's actually Less close to the Wetland now yeah part of it that little piece of it but it's certainly no negative impact so yeah it looks to me like it's minor and insignificant whatever the right term is it's an insignificant change can I have a vote to uh I move to consider this an insignificant change this is Tony I second that Walter tals in favor Tony rakus in favor Mar more in favor ran in favor okay thank you um okay discussion item zero and net Lane Chuck you want zero net Lane so um Zer net Lane is um a situation where we want to uh I've been asking the applicant to provide information try to get a good picture to let you see what's going on upd yes and I have in mind to do this as quick as possible um let's do this okay all right uh so during excavation um the site contractor smashed into no less than 15 trees this is a typical tree damage on all 15 trees did you say five or 5 Z one five okay it might be 17 these are all trees that are around the perimeter of the house and you know uh I said get an aest have the Aus do an evaluation although I've talked to the Aus on the phone he told me what he was going to do but I had nothing in writing to uh bring to the commission and I reached out last week when I sent out the agenda to these people and I said look I have two issues asked you to get something from Lucas environmental on where the wood ships were and how that destroyed the Wetland and nothing was growing back we never got that and now we have this damage and I don't have an evaluation from the obus and I said that I'm bringing it to the commission and asking them what the next steps are so we have this tree damage um a lot of apologies you know I don't understand why after hitting one tree or the contractor would hit you know 14 more and how the home the owner would think you know I you know I guess it wasn't there but still the house is going to be there and everyone's going to be looking at these trees that now are in question so these are possible trees that could come down course sooner than than expected so um I uh I wanted to bring it to the commission I don't think talking is working working anymore um Brian you've been out there MTH you've been out there you know who we're talking about nice guy but I just maybe the nice policy that we have with communication and asking is so are you thinking of violation letter or up a scale ceas work order is that an option all of it's an option I mean the the building department would want to do that I think uh at this point I would just go straight to the enforcement order just write it up yeah ask for those two things by a certain date and ask them to come to the meeting on that certain date and and would you put in the letter anything implying that there would be fines if they didn't not not at this point no I I think that so the enforcement order just lives it's up to the commission it's not reviewable and so he doesn't come to the next meeting he doesn't have the information perhaps then you can amend it again you just ratchet up that information that's how those enforcement work that whole project has been filled with different apologies so it's not this is not the one thing that went wrong I'm wondering at that next meeting can we make some new conditions on that project that protect the rout area and the trunks of those trees so they don't get further damaged well we could do it in the enforcement order okay because you know can't modify the so this is the reason why so there's ledge there and so I guess they were just moving around this just a pile of stones the pile of stones just got thrown up against against the trees yeah I'm telling you you would be surprised one tree yes I I get it I guess I get it could happen but all those trees to say I don't even care I'm just going to get my work done and I'm not going to think about anything else and that's what the statement is statement is I don't care trees are just collateral damage well these are nice trees that would be around the house I think he he's wrecking the uh appeal of the finished product I agree and he is compacting the soil under that giant pile of rocks just like the Town Forest cutting plan we were worrying about okay so it's 20 10 so except it's in the it's in the work zone so not take you so do I have permission for okay we need to vote on that uh yes please give me a vote to uh issue a enforcement order to Zero have a motion with the conditions we discuss you can say so moved so moved second topics in favor we need a second a second first I heard that that was Chuck asking for it we have a second Walter tats in favor then favor Martha Mo in favor rainbow in favor who was it who did the second Walter did Walter seconded Martha moov okay okay next on my list is um so we have the town Force committee here tonight but we also want to uh we understand that we issued a permit but I want to uh also share that they're having a town meeting um they're going to go to town meeting for three articles and um first one is off leash which is article 12 and it's on the board now uh any dog it does not remain under effective voice control as identified in a813 must be placed on a leash blah blah blah and so I was going to ask if the Conservation Commission would support that I'm looking for the next one I I don't want to that top one was the exit uh definition of voice control okay so you want that one there there we go effective voice control shall be deemed under effective voice control if then the Handler site blah blah comes immediately when called Handler is carrying a leash for dog so this is what's it what's voice control and the next one is maximum number of offleash dogs and this is all in the Town Forest did they go with two or three in the it says two right there with two exceed two per Handler okay okay and then um this number 13 is the one that we just approved so they're seeking funds of 150,000 50,000 for pays for the dead tree removal and $100,000 for invasive plant control program I'm asking the Conservation Commission to vote in support of these three articles or any such any combination combination as I would like to move that we make one vote and support all three articles and I would be glad to represent the committee at town meeting and tell them what our vote was and they will ask and can I get a second for that motion Tony I second wter toits in favor Tony is in favor Martha Moore in favor ban B in favor it is getting late you're excused next one L use Summit rescheduled 2025 we sent out the email ask people to look at the whole thing yes uh I've seen a number of responses I didn't think about Gathering them and coming up with a date but I can plan to do that before the next meeting okay um but yes lots of people have responded to that from the various committees anything else about that you want to cover check no not about that just just get that uh vote all um so the next one then is MSM SE discussion and vote we talked about that last time we did not vote on it right H yeah so if you want to change what we talked about now the time yeah hold on a second sorry what was that so if if so we talked about it last time we had some additions that suggested we did not vote on it to make it official so if we're going to change it now is the time if no nobody changes or with the changes we need to vote on it here they are right here so this is our below the below those highlighted areas are our standard boiler plate um rules and regulations for all conservation land but it was suggested by the engineering department and the planning department and supported by myself that we add to the mlet SS and Morgan sign that we want to make one at each entrance open from dawn to dusk all visitors must remain on marked paths carry in carry out no skating swimming or fishing we also talked about waiting I thought want put waiting on there I will you want to make a motion to include waiting that would be fine what about dipping your toe in that what if we encourage people to Wade then there's going to be erosion on the side can you swim without w thanks protected I guess you could you could just if that's what you want to just make that I just make it clear that we're really discouraging people from yeah from using it using the water and then I want uh I move to add waiting to item number three second Walter Walter in favor vus in favor Marth Moore in favor Rainbo in favor also a vote to accept these changes no because didn't say as amended or anything so that was just a change okay number three and it's only for mlet S and morning all right so can that I second can we have a motion then to approve these rules I would like to have a discussion of one more item can I have that before after the motion does it matter should be before before okay um speaking to people at the community Forum the other night in the library I heard from more than one person that they would really love to have a trash can there this has nothing to do with the trash bar it says carry and carry out do you want can can we ask the DPW to provide a trash barrel okay okay I still don't think it has anything to do with the trash R but there but yeah there are two separate things we should ask them for we can ask him in our coordination meeting yeah but as far as the rules go the way it's written covers the behavior we want that is to no everyone agrees I mean it's come up so much except for the engineering department so I think at our meeting would be great yeah but I did receive an email and you we had three people comment last night and others commented to other people and I think they all need to get that to the right right people and I would say the right people at this moment would be the select board I mean you know it's the select Board of the Town manager because it feels unusual to send them to the DPW and we can ask ourselves I mean we don't we can't we don't want to sick anyone on the DPW but I think it's needed I mean I was out there and a just underneath our sign yeah was dog waste bag right at least it was bagged but doesn't help that much bags are compostable it's not going to last that long all right should we Molly I don't know so having said that can we have a motion to approve the rules sure I move that we approve the rules as amended Walter has his hand up sorry Walter I couldn't see you again go ahead my my question was the trash bar which Martha addressed okay so we're off set so back to the motion second this is Tony I second Martha's motion Arthur Talbots in favor Tony rakis in favor Martha Moore in favor rbo in favor okay next is the conservation monthly meeting November 5th isn't that election day probably yeah I can't go on Election Day okay so I I believe I can't okay I'm not going to vote anybody who cares no that's fine um anybody else else interested in going on uh it's it's it's almost exciting is watching like a pancake cook hey Walton you should come along since you're a retired individual and we can get a third person familiar with um the entertainment value of it and you can ask for a trash barrel there you go he's not he's Frozen okay I won't put you on the spot don't worry about it but it would be nice it's possible I might be able to make it I just can't come in we don't need to have three yeah okay next any administrative report yes Simon's way update yeah Simon's way I was asked to uh just give a small report I'm just going to read this real quickly um you might want me to send them the information will Cox and Barton will be conducting the site investigation program on Wednesday October 23rd that's when it starts today for the town of reading um for the proposed uh Center for active living the site investigation includes five Geo probes track mounted boring locations uh push to approximately 25 ft below ground and 10 and augured um locations one foot below ground the plan's been attached the wetlands and the delineation markers and um and where the borings are going to be will Cox Baron Incorporated will include a clear will not need to clear any trees or conduct any site investigation program uh to to conduct this site investigation program yeah so they're just going to say Weston the Samson conducted the same investigation back in 2022 and they will be going down the same path that was utilized by Weston Samson so the trees they pick a path that didn't include any trees maybe some shrubs were were on over so this is where we're talking about Simon's way um this is the access road to the to the gun club and they're going to do some site investigation they've mentioned things in here which are kind of funny like um you know abandoned cars H machine things like that so they' they've walked the site they understand what's going up on out there um the report should be available the beginning of November and we'll have a copy of that report you're probably interested in that yeah um and so that's what we have I'm not sure this is on the website but it may be if it's not I can either send it out to you guys and put it on the website do you know when they're planning to actually do the test hole digging it started today and if they're not finished tomorrow then they'll go to Friday Also I mean the 10 hand aers are definitely done okay set yes did the um did the information I sent to you get forwarded absolutely did okay yeah uh do I know what happened with it or what you know send it to the engineering department are more in charge yeah okay so getting to minutes for approval the first one is 911 I did that one I sent it out too late so we won't even talk about that one next one is 925 is everybody in position to approve that I don't think I read that one I don't remember so we can't prove it anyway person so what about um 10 n would been the last meeting again I don't I don't have any memory of reading any minute since our last meeting I don't either um we'll push those to the next meeting my comments not enough to uh review yeah do I remember who we even took last meeting let's go back in if only we had the minutes we could and I will volunteer to write up the minutes for I've been taking a lot of notes so okay a public uh public information or public comment what is that called public anyways I want to let everybody know who myice Service Announcement anyone in town that would like to do the minutes for the Conservation Commission please reach out to the conservation administrator myself at Town Hall uh we uh have a budget to pay for our minutes and uh we are looking for people to do those minutes okay having said that are we ready to adjourn if so can I have a motion I what what's the dollar amount depends on who volunteers yeah yeah yeah uh to be negotiated we can we can set the dollar amount I think it can be up to but I think it's either a dollar amount or it's per meeting okay so I think that's going to be part of the negotiation um okay that's long thank you do you are you looking for work no I'm retired remember ask does mean that means you have time you haven't got the itch I don't know okay it means I'm I'm retired is what it means so can you repeat your motion I move toj the meeting SEC second and it is 10:35 wow just like old touch okay thank you good night good night e