##VIDEO ID:bjOgl7rQm-A## e e e e e e e recording in progress e e break okay here we go I thought he and Walter is not here Walter is in again okay let's see if I can get him to let me know he can hear me hey Walter can you hear us I can now yes okay great ready to start sorry all right here we go um hello everyone this is Chuck terrone readings conservation administrator this meeting will be uh conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter two of the acts of 2023 which are further ex uh extends certain Co covid measures regarding remote participation in public meetings until March 31st 2 please note that not all items listed uh May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law this agenda includes those matters which can reasonably be anticipated U to be discussed at tonight's meeting please not that this meeting will be recorded and that recording is already on all material for this meeting are available at the following link which I'll provide at the end of this script and Brian Bo um the conservation chair will facilitate this meeting please note that there will be public comment uh period at the end of each hearing each vote taken during tonight's meeting will be conducted by roll call vote uh we will begin with a roll call attendance and Brian um Brian can you review the agenda and take the Roll Call attendance sure uh to the agenda first um first we will continue the hearing on notice of attent uh for zero seat of swamp to be followed by continuation of a hearing for notice of intent for 555 West Street that is it for our hearings and then we'll move on to old new business violations and then a few other discussion items certificates of compliance minor plan change um any conversation about upcoming conservation DPW monthly meeting we think we do have an administrators report um or at least some bills to approve and then we have some minutes to approve having said that we'll now do roll call to make sure everybody can hear us and we can hear them um so let's start with you Walton Mr talit commissioner president don't any to lock this commissioner present Martha Moore Vice chair present and just a note if you are here in the room there's a signin sheet by the door to sign in um when you come for our records Brian bro chair present okay having said that um as I said a minute ago our first hearing is a continuation of a hearing for noi for zero SE of swamp Chuck I believe that that's they have requested a continuance yeah the applicant uh had uh requested a continuance at um about three o'clock this afternoon uh and that'll be September 11 2024 we'll be back to the Conservation Commission I move that we continue the hearing for zero Cedar Swamp to September 11 this is Tony I second wter toits in favor Tony rakus in favor martham Mo in favor ranb in favor so that's 4 z b okay now we can move on to 555 West Street I will read this blurb uh Contin that's here for you tonight continue the public hearing on a notice of intent okay by kha patal servant to massachusett General Law chapter 131 section 40 Wetlands protection act in order reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant is proposing to raise a portion of the single family dwelling deck Pao stairs walkway retaining walls remove shed and gravel play area to construct in addition deck stairs porch patio servious walkway repave the driveway rooftop infiltration driveway infiltration cut uh a tree trim two trees plantings Associated grading and utilities within the riverfront and the 100 foot buffer zone to border and vegetated Wetland all of the work is within the buffer zone to border vegetated Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office located the 16 low Street Reading Mass 01867 and on the conservation Division division page under by year assessors map 25 lot 14 the EP file number 27- 0787 are you here for that the principal engineer speak hi good evening commission it's Kevin qu with Boston civil how are you good how are you good thanks um so um I'm I'm here presenting for the Patel family um Norse environmental had originally um attended the meeting um so I might not be completely up to date on some of the items that were discussed last time but um I believe that um they had sent a markup um highlighting the construction access route um adding a note for the 5ot um wide restoration area no disturb area um and then also showing the uh soil stockpile um which we did have some notes on our cover sheet um which had noted that would have um in or aosion controls so um happy to answer any questions or um Kevin this is Chuck terone the conservation administrator do you do you have the plan can you put that on the screen or you oh sure you have permission to do that okay thank you um so can you all see the screen yes yes so yeah the uh here's the markups on the latest plan that I I had submitted um so you'll see here in green they highlighted the um the Wetland line um and then noted noted on the plan the 5 foot buffer um indicated the stockpile um which I believe until that deck is built um is probably going to be on the flatter side um but then the construction access would be on the uphill side from the house away from the Wetland area in the riverfront area um so again um happy to answer any questions um we did um just a little bit more background in the storm water um we had collected basically the entire New Edition everywhere that was pitched to the back um and had conservatively modeled the permeable P walkways which um can be found in the slightly darker hatch here um as impervious just to be considered ative um and even with that um it would be um a reduction in rate and runoff okay thank you um Commissioners do we have any questions Walter I can't see you so if you have any please speak we did have a site walk last week okay I can back to that to but fine but I could I could bring the rest of the commission up to speed with that would be good so okay um so Wednesday last I met with Morin from Norse and we walked the site first we looked at the Wetland lines and they looked pretty good um there's uh the abona river and then there's a bordering vegetated Wetland abing that um outside of that BBW flag was a stone wall and to the uh right as shown on the plan of the stone wall that the ground was kind of Mossy and and a little squishy uh so we Advanced to aug borings down to 20 in and 24 in and we didn't see any signs of wetland soil so um we can confirm the the Wetland line even though it is kind of Mossy it's just probably shaded and a little bit down um so that that's the first thing to report um we looked at a couple of trees that have been proposed for trimming or um removal uh both of them are double leaders uh one of them is is in the back uh left side yeah right around there where the hand is um one of the leaders has already fallen and is rotting through and and you can see that there are other trees now that are rooted in in in the in the notch um it's a it's a it's a hazard waiting to happen uh there was another tree up in the top right um which also is a double leader um and I can't remember if that was being proposed for removal or just trimming just trimming okay and there were a couple of other trees in the in the area that were being proposed for trimming um because they're they're starting to grow over the house uh and they may be in the way of the construction equipment too depending on how they're using to lift things uh we looked at where the 25 foot no mozone would would lie should we choose to enforce that and it looks like that's is that the um the dark dotted line the heavyweight dotted line I'm sorry you just cut out for a minute um but are you talking about this one here uh no go to the go to the left of the house left of the house that there that looks to be I'll go to this plan I might be a little clearer um this this is the limit of work right here okay that's the limit of work it it also appears to coincide pretty closely with the 25 foot uh no Moone um we it's a small yard and so it appears that a 25 foot noome mozone would would take away most of the yard um and so at this project walk through um the consultant proposed a five- foot restoration area no disturb Zone and that was based on kind of a natural break in topography if you're standing there at the base of the Hill you can see see a little bit of a of a break in slope and it it seemed to be uh an appropriate spot to at least propose a a restoration Zone it's going to add if the board were were to approve that it would add a decent amount of protection it would certainly slow down Overland flow um without taking away significant use of the yard um the other important parts of the project are um ripping up the driveway and replacing it um expanding the uh the footprint of of the house is shown on the figure and directing storm water into an infiltration Basin correct and also just to note um the driveway one of the reasons for that um there was a negative pitch towards the garage um in a small area of the house so um so they're just trying to correct that as as well um and just also to note we did add the crush Stone strip on the downhill side of the driveway um right just again future and and the walkway would be proposed to be widened over the existing but it would be widened toward the house away from the Wetland line and it's it's it's a nominal widening just to make it a little safer there was a test pit done for the rooftop infiltration we we saw that the stock pile area indicated is about the only flat part of the yard it seems to be an appropriate place to stockpile as long as we talked about um putting some type of a containment around there and I think those are the major highlights from the site walk over um Marthur Walter anything you want to add to that from your walk sure um do you want to go first walk or me I'd be happy too thank you okay um yeah we just Brian Martha and I walked on Monday the 26th we noticed some erosion occurring um from the the northwest corner of the property from the driveway towards the river area there was Major erosion from the street it looked like there was a break in the curb curbing that permitted that to happen the drain system that was there uh we couldn't really ascertain but it looked like it might be plugged um there was also a plastic mesh along the street line in the northwest corner uh there were many leaves on the owner's side of the river area um virtually none on the other side they were all on the owner's side looks like they may have been dumped there and then in the northeast corner not only were there leaves but there were glass grass clippings along the river bank as well then there were some invasive observations let Martha handle that and that's oh then there was a strange iron P pump pipe um on the North side uh towards the rear of the building I don't know what that was on the right side on the left side yeah I believe that might be the sewer sorry Kevin I spoke over you um based on a record plan um we believe that would be the sewer uh where was it going to go then uh it's just proposed to remain no I mean where is it dumping if it's a sord I'll pull up the record plan in the background here so that pretty much lines up with how I sketched it in and you put the record plan back up again thank you okay so that pipe leads to the Sewer on the street and we just couldn't see where it turns a corner correct no uh those are my major observations okay thank you did you determine that with the utility locator or just off of the old records here um off off the Record and just U it's truthfully a guess um that's what it logically made sense to me based on the record plan um I did not I did not video it now I'm wondering what the chances of that freezing in the winter because it's right at ground level sticking up above the surface might be um I think I assume the owner would be willing to um coordinate that with the DPW if needed okay um yeah as uh Walter said as we walked along the stream Edge we did see a lot of leaf material there was a small amount of um trash litter but mostly it was Leaf litter along there um and I would want to ask the homeowner to remove the uppermost layer of the leaf litter so that it's down to the part that's starting to decompose um especially at the back where it's looks like a lawnmower bag was dumped full of leaf clippings um but also an opportunity for some mitigation would be the um small amount of invasive species that are located um along the ston wall area next to the stream there are a few young buckthorns and one fairly large Buckthorn in among the um cherry oak and blueberry shrubs so um the homeowner would need a person who knows their trees and shrubs to identify which are the invasives and which are the natives that should be left um also I noticed near Wetland Wetland flag four someone dumped three or four potted plants upside down and left their pots of dirt um near The Stone Wall there and when cleaning up the leaves I'd like to see those cleaned up as well um okay and we were told that the shed is going to be removed that's at the back property line correct yeah that's noted on sheet C2 okay um and just beyond the shed there's a tree that looks like it is in poor shape but I assume that's not on this property but the next property over yeah the shed is actually crossing the property line so okay um and with the construction entrance going in along the um South yeah south side of the house um there's a burning bush in between the bay window and the next piece of the house is that going to be removed during the construction process morine indicated it likely would be okay um I I would approve of that because burning bush is invasive so I don't think you need to make great efforts to preserve that bush um but it might be nice to um incorporate some um replacement planting of native species that would would be Foundation plantings in that area um and that is still within the 100 foot foot buffer zone um when Tony was asking where the 25 foot line is the 35 foot line is clearly marked on the map um it yeah can't read it there it is it goes right through this e of stockpile okay um so the line you were indicating is fairely close to being the 25 foot but it yeah it looks like you go to the left of that there's a heavy dotted line that just cuts the corner of the patio right but that heavy dotted line is not actually the 25 foot it's the erosion control limit work and what kind of erosion control are you planning to put there um planning on doing uh Sil f with Waddles um you know typical standard detail uh for us that uh you know would involve uh putting the fabric below ground um you know staking the Waddles every four feet Max on Center um you know with overlap 2 feet um and then you know the fence post um staked every you know maximum of eight feet on Center um I'm sure if there's a preference of the commission on a type of waddle to use um I'm sure they the owner would be happy to have that condition whatever um would be preferred yeah typically we ask for mulch socks rather than straw Waddles okay um I would ask Chuck his opinion on that one yeah yeah it would be M sock and is it usually 12 inch that we ask for yeah it's 12 inch um yeah so I think that's all my notes from the site visit um that were in addition to what Tony and Walter said um Tony do you had a chance to give us your observations do you have questions a little me on that um no I don't have questions okay if you have any questions of and beyond your observations um I'm curious about the um driveway slope you're adding the um crust Stone strip on the side toward the stream are you going to be raising the driveway near the garage or lowering the driveway further away how are you going to get the slope to work um so we're raising it slightly um and that was just due to um you know trying to keep it about 2% reduce the velocity coming off the asphalt um and also just to make a you know reasonably accessible path um I believe I showed it under 5% % um just the walkway um because the permeable pavers you know technically wouldn't work um or they're not recommended for slopes over 5% so that's the reason for the slight regrading in that corner um but you know even then it's still not um nearly what some of the other areas for the rear of the site are in terms of slope um but it is slightly pitched um to the street um I can do a quick dimension on that um but it's about a 6 in drop over um 28 feet so again under five and that was also you know part of the reason I believe it was mentioned earlier the owner when I was on site had mentioned that there was some runoff in the street that would cross cross their property and cause some erosion so um so you know pitching it away um from our from the house um and then adding that Crush Stone strip was kind of a a dual purpose from that from that standpoint um I guess my only other question is related to the plugged up storm drain in the street that doesn't seem to be connected with the project but it seems like something that we might want to do a c click fix or something like that I did one today oh you did one yes it's my first one we'll see if it actually works but that's a uh utility it's a tool that allows you to tell the town some issue and so I rad up situation in front of your house hopefully that'll be sufficient I have to watch it okay um I think we have done Riverfront projects before and there are numbers like 10% of the property and stuff like that um so I would love to hear somebody with more background on this than me explain how all that how the numbers work out yeah we can talk about that when it's my turn okay that's it I'm done with my turn um first question I have is actually follow up on something Tony was saying so the driveway work you're doing is that going to be taken up the existing driveway or just repaving over it um yeah so the didn't propose any you see this is I'll pull up the existing so this is the existing plan here um you know we essentially kept the exact same limits um just added that 18inch strip of gravel on the edge I understand but are you going to be Che up what's there currently as a starting place um I'd have to look back on the condition I haven't been there in a bit um so so my question for you then to bear in mind is if you are going to tear it up um can you tell us how you intend to handle the material you tear up before you take it off site um I believe if it would um I'm not really involved in that typically but um I assume the contractor would do it whatever is legal um or whatever recommendation um the commission would have um if that would be a potential condition I'm sure they would now be happy to meet that yeah I would like to see it written somewhere that it would be taken off the same day um that avoids chances of erosion especially where the pitch towards the street and that already Pro problematic storm drain um okay my next question has to do with the shed if you look at your plan the limit of work is very close to the left hand side of the shed and that's the side where there's lots of material under underneath there's send the blocks there's what used to be a sack of concrete the paper has disintegrated and there's a there's a pile of concrete left or a form of concrete left so I'm wondering how you plan on doing that and clearing up that area without going over the limit of work um I assumed they would have started from the high side um after the erosion controls were installed um but if needed I can address that um you know a couple more feet to get room to get the back side of the shed yeah I think you have to pay attention to that area because at least according to the the line and the plan it's very close and if you look at it already some of the material under the shed is kind of tumbling out so I don't know how much room you have there so it's an area for you to focus on uh let's see um we talked about the erosion around the storm drain hopefully the town does something about it but minimum I'd like to see uh you folks put a collar or something around the storm drain to capture anything that might uh come off the project especially as you're doing the work on the driveway um to just keep thing keep it from making that situation worse likewise for the same thinking I'd like you to commit to uh sweeping each night again to prevent matal from going to the storm drain yeah the sweeping is sorry to cut you off um the sweeping is one of our standard notes on the first on the cover page um and I'm happy to I would be happy to add a um Inlet protection detail um you're saying like the the waddle style um around you know around the outside not not an actual sack um actually I'll defer the chuck on that I'm used to seeing like a little sandbag fied collar but maybe the Chuck is a better idea I what was the question are we using Sil saxs or the collor around the storm drain some kind of a protection around a storm drain of sediment going in yeah so usually they drop in a silt sack in the storm drain and if it needs a curb inlet protection they'll do that also okay are you still there yep I'm here okay I wasn't sure if you sorry I was writing notes that's alloud okay let's get to some numbers uh so my first one is actually a question from maren's letter um in the last paragraph she states um the proposed work within the riverfront area is 441 Square fet can you tell me where that number comes from because essentially the whole property is within the riverfront area uh not sure what point she was trying to make the 441 sare footage within what setback um buffer square footage of proposed work within the riverfront area is 441 square feet um she might be referring to the what's what's in with the 35 No structure buffer zone I'm not sure um yeah and and that would be different than the riverfront area uh either way could you get together with her clarify that and let Chuck know what you find out okay all right uh then if we can get to the numbers on your plan can you go to the uh your plan and go to the drainage area breakdown table y you're on it good all right um so can you say again what you said about the deck when you were doing your narrative um yeah so the deck um essentially I model it as pervious um but what we do is use a lower curve number um to assume it's not know like a fully grassed area um because it would have water to be able to penetrate through um so that's how we model the deck the decks um and then the perme will flers just from the hydrocad model um were shown to be impervious um just because you know they essentially it just kind of accounted for other conditions um if they were frozen or you know Frozen on the surface um and essentially I just for the purposes of demonstrating that the the system is sized to still work assuming that were to fail um that's how we had modeled that um and and I understand that you might have you might be wanting to call the permeable pavers as impervious um but that's just the reason I had um you know modeled it in the hydrat separately no not the perious pavers but we do consider a deck to be impervious okay all right so that means that your total impervious the new impervious of 2502 plus the 483 of the deck actually makes it so you're increasing the uh impervious area by uh some square footage okay so if you could change numbers on this table to show that that would be good decks are impervious in red um so the next issue has to do with the 10% that Martha brought up a little while ago so as we learned on other projects you're allowed uh to degrade 10% uh so in this case where the property is 15470 you can degrade 1 1547 you're already over that um so what it what it doesn't mean it doesn't mean you can't do it it just means by definition you have to look at the fngg Clause um one b in restoration and one being in mitigation um so because you're over the allowable 10% regardless of whether you're adding more or not um you have to have mitigation that is acceptable to the commission so can you talk again about whatever mitigation is being done on this project um the Patel family I has had more conversations with Meen at noris about that um I am not really well versed in in that of what the plan is um but I'm sure they definitely will um be in touch with you about how how they want to approach that okay um so I you probably don't know this but um D reached out also and had a question about some of what they're taking credit on for uh previously altered or previously degraded areas so that has to be cleaned up also so that's not something that's ready to move forward so we'll have to do this calculation with the adjustment that D is asking for at the next meeting as well as suggest and I suggest a new table is uh would be put together that's a fine suggestion yeah um okay and would that new table have that 10% figure in it then so that we can compare well it's the same same drainage area table and the number it looks like from what we're hearing from D that some of the previously Disturbed area and um impervious area was on site prior to such and such a date so it doesn't count right okay so they're going to take a little bit away I think at the end of the day Moren does intend to do mitigation and she said that she said well we'll have more mitigation to do but it seems like the table needs to be updated and and the plan needs an update also okay well and and and Kevin I I said all that because I think that maybe uh every time something uh Wetland came up you might have said it was really Morin's job to talk about so I just wanted to let everybody know what I knew about that situation okay so that was the last of my questions um so at this point it seems pretty clear that uh is is not ready to close as we'll talk about the list of things that we need U before we can get to that um so before we get to that list are you amenable to us continuing to another meeting sure okay Kevin do you have any idea how long you'll need um to do the updates we've been talking about um we can do them quickly um I know I believe Moran is on vacation this week um which is why she's not here um and obviously she could have helped with some of those questions but um but will definitely be in touch um and when would the resubmission need be needed by uh so our next meeting is September 11th which is a Wednesday and you'd have to submit the Thursday before that okay no no no you'd have to be uh sorry no the Wednesday before that not the Wednesday before so the fourth I was giv next day my fault yeah that's not a concern on our end Brian I'm gonna I have a few questions too so I don't want you to just continue I get because I think it would be important towards the exit yeah go ahead so uh Kevin I'm gonna have a chance to talk now um so uh this is a Redevelopment project and you have to meet the standards in entirety and think I I think some of the things I wanted to ask you is what Brian was was discussing which was the driveway you've installed a crush Stone strip next to what you called the existing uh area of the driveway whether it's improved or not but you added something to that area and um within the so this is uh 10585 C which is within the 200 foot Riverfront area Pro proposed work shall not be located any closer to the riverfront than existing conditions and so you've uh you have a challenge right there these are not negotiable so you have to work on that area so you could install it into the edge of the existing driveway but you couldn't put it in front of it yeah yeah I'm Happ to do that okay and that deck uh I I noticed that it was existing uh I think you're just rebuilding it I just my question was are you rebuilding it in the exact same footprint which is the the one you're gonna turn into a paver I think you're almost pointing at it it's yeah yeah so this is a clearer way to look at it what it was before um with the dark line here is the proposed footprint so it is uh going closer to the Wetland area and then wrapping around the house so go back to that first one again you see it in the dark line here that's kind of limit there well it's I I guess I'm less concerned about that because right in front of it that gay gray block that says with the drainage pipe is underneath it that's an existing patio right uh um yes this is all concrete patio here and I thought the note said that you're redoing that patio and so as I read these regulations you can't be any closer than existing structures so I think the leading structure is that one so you don't you don't have to mess around with this part of the movements yeah that that patio is shown in the existing limits um just changed from concrete to varable yeah yeah and it just can't expand and I think the proposed deck in back of it is fine because the existing patio is closer already uh I know that the river turns at the far end but I don't think anyone would uh call you out on that because it's possible that that building to the back of this house actually puts you closer to the riverfront than existing conditions but I don't think anyone going to call you out on that so it was only the veg the the buffer strip or the drainage strip that I wanted to call you out on um and then for this mitigation it's recommended in the regulations that it is that it's put as close as possible to the riverfront um as you can get it and uh I would I would also like that also yeah to show that with after coordinating with Marin yeah and my only other comment is uh the construction entrance do you do you know if you run over the infiltration area if that's going to have to be uh amended somehow or with uh digging it up you're gonna go you're gonna dig below what would be the compacted soil from I guess driving over that area yeah I'm happy to um a no or expand that slightly on the east side and um call it for it to be flagged and protected um after it's installed but I imagine the the deck or the the shed removal would probably be first um just so they can you know clear up that area there yeah okay uh and uh so and I'm looking the only other question that I would have is um again 10 585 at a minimum all the OS work uh must be in there must be some improvement over the existing conditions and of course they're not talking about the addition talking about U they're talking about the capacity of the riverfront to protect the interest of the act so again we're probably talking about mitigation there and what that is but it could be something else also so i' I'd like to see that um highlighted in the plan and those are my questions sorry okay I have a question for Brian you mentioned the um or maybe was Martha you mentioned that the 10% of the of the lot area do you know where in the regulations that comes from yeah comes from 10585 it's actually 10585 five is 10855 okay so it's under redefinition it's 10 585 e okay thanks okay um so I think we're back to looking for a continuance um or do we want to talk about uh items we need first or anything well I wrote down a few things but they're mostly conditions I I didn't understand the pipe comment I mean what's what's up with that you said the pipe and then someone said maybe mention it to D is that a or DPW sorry DPW no I'm just if your sewer pipe is coming out and exposed above the ground isn't that going to risk freezing in the winter and backing the Sage up into the house and if you're doing a construction project maybe you want to oh maybe it's a good time cover it with some soil so it doesn't freeze I don't know um have you guys lived in this house a long time since 2012 and I've never seen that P coming out I I would like to go tomorrow and see that I've never seen that okay we've never had any yeah you can't see it coming out of the house so maybe feet out it's exposed ah get update yeah it's it's beyond the sidewalk heading towards the stream and it's a kind of a concrete pipe with a flange on um but if you haven't had a problem then I'm not gonna I'm gonna ask to change it but yeah okay it was the pipe and then it was the shed is removed not not relocated right right okay and the only other question that came up is in Brian's note what is 441 square feet where's that about what is that about out of the 35 foot yeah work within the 35 foot Zone and if you have new work within the 35 foot zone of no structure Zone you're going to have to ask for a variance for that and so that would be an additional uh something that Supply I should have mentioned that did bring that up when when we were there so she's aware of that now does turning impervious concrete sidewalk into pervious pav is that new work or is that replacing an existing structure in the same footprint right you mean as far as being closer to to the river than it was before well I'm just thinking the 441 ft it looks to me from the diagram that everything that's within the 35 foot no structure Zone already exists as a structure but my question is but the letter is it says of the riverfront area doesn't say of the 35 foot or the 25 foot the riverfront so it may just need to be a clarification I don't know but I can't tell what I was trying to say yeah yeah and Tony I Chuck said something about new structures within the 35 foot just now but they're they're replacing that walkway so that's and that's my question is is replacing something not considered a new structure and therefore it's okay with the riverfront within the riverfront or are we talking about the regulations are we talking about with our our bylaw and our regulations let's go for the second one our bylaw does our bylaw allow you to just replace a structure with the identical size structure thinking yes yeah it's working FR and you would have to so I don't think it qualifies as um I think it's degraded it's a degraded area and it's previously Disturbed so they taking credit I think it says they're taking credit for it I'm not I'm not sure I can't the pl are small I can't read it but um but if they're just replacing it in kind then I don't think the commission can say no but they can say no to allowing it closer to the river river than it exists now no matter what they update it with sure okay fine right it was the stone trench that Chuck was talking about being closer yes yep I agree with chuck on the stone trench and I was just clarifying about the sidewalk in patio that I think that's okay because it already exists and they're just making it IM perious instead of impervious yeah so the the regulation say something like as long long as it's a lawfully located structure so it has permits and all that so you know you guys saw it it looks like know any any question that it just went in and there's no permit at the at the Town Hall then then yeah there's a problem but other than that it can be updated uh it just can't get any closer to the river okay just clarifying that okay is that it for requests yeah just those couple of things is all that I came up with with this discussion okay in that case I think we're ready for a motion to continue to September 11th I move that we continue the application oh wait a minute Walter sorry H Walter has his hand up sorry Walter could didn't see it no problem just put it up um previously other than Kevin somebody else was talking and was unidentified oh uh do you want to give your name and address for the record yeah sure hello this is K property order of 5et thank you thank you Walter okay I move that we continue the hearing for 555 West to September 11th our next meeting I'll second that talet is in favor lock is in favor Martha Mo in favor R in favor okay so continue to the next meeting so much yes thank you we will see you again commission all so that is it for hearings tonight so now we get to Old new business violations you here for 4 no what are you here for I'm here to talk about 114 Street oh Goa street so I knew you look familiar I just couldn't place which house it was all right so why don't we deal with that one then um so Chuck do you w to go over the situation first or sure give me uh um talking and I'll pull this up when you get tring to talk please come to the podium and tell us who you are this will make it easy if you want I not make it as easy as possible for you so um so we're here yeah we're here do you wanna do you want to give the presentation you want me just uh read this for you read it that's fine way yeah sure so um start right up right up here so uh it looks like uh after clearing a lot uh Jack sulliv was asked um to stake out the location of the approved foundation for the excavation the applicant upon seeing uh the physical Stakes foundation and the rear yard of the property was concerned about how small the rear yard was decision was reached that the house should be moved 10 feet forward towards fourest Street by moving the house 10 feet forward to fourth street we have now increased the separation distance from the house to the wetlands and the uh offsite Vernal pool in addition to the house moving 10 feet forward the rear driveway turnout and front walkway remov 10 ft forward Forest uh towards Forest as well so all impervious surfaces have been relocated 10 feet closer to Forest Street and 10 feet further away from the resource area attached to plan reflects these changes as noted above and plan is right there and this is the plan we looked at I believe um so I believe what we're looking at is just the plan with the move it doesn't show where the house was located before but when I looked at it it did um where it says 36 down here guess it was 26 so it shows the 10 feet and then up here in the front it said 37 and that was 47 so I did verify that on the two plans okay so that's what we're looking at there are no other changes uh to the plan I think it reduces the impervious surface I think it like Jack said it pulls it away from what we're concerned about ises a little more yard um for the people that are going to be living there and and again you know when you go out there you can tell that just beyond the limit of work are those two uh conservation restriction blackards and so we don't really want people back there anyways because the Wetland so close and then there's a Vernal pool so this seems to be uh a good Improvement so I do have some questions um and Tom will introduce himself my name is Tom and I'm the owner of Trinity Home Business okay so um so I went by there and I saw that the foundation has actually been built yes can you tell me when that was built um see today's Wednesday I think that was completed last Friday and on Monday it was inspected okay um and your letter to Chuck was dated the 21st correct 21st yeah the it followed today is the 28th so so it it followed it followed following the letter but but it also happened prior to this meeting yes right so that's the point I wanted to get to that it clearly says in the bylaws that the applicant needs to wait until the commission approves it okay which didn't happen Okay um you have any thoughts on that uh I acknowledge it and uh the only thing I can State now is it wouldn't happen again that's that always prompts me to ask the question how do we know that um and so obviously we'll have to pay more attention to the site in the upcoming weeks of construction value yeah that in turn brings me to the next question um which is about the concrete wash out area yeah you know what I'm I'm talking about yeah I do so um yeah so I'll get put some pictures the first call we got actually um Chuck had call me and um we had a heavy rain one evening in the silk fence which stands up I know maybe 10 to 14 inches in that R the water was so strong that it actually Leed def fence Chuck called me and actually met me on site and uh made a recommendation for us to pick up um Hy hay bales and so we put several along the backside and nailed them in and each time it rained I actually since that time I've got personally gone down there and walked the back to make sure that it sufficed and that it prevented any rain uh any any leakage into the Wetland area uh following that we they were cleaning the concrete equipment and it was wash off from that that actually went down into that direction so um you know we had a phone call about that as well and uh what I did is I had a piece of equipment go in there dig that out remove that um we put in um hey Bales again about the 3/4 point up in the property uh preventing that from you know from anything coming down in that direction and then we also built a uh a little Stone uh checkpoint to prevent and if anything could pass the hay barrels that then there would be a a u checkpoint for the rage to stop this morning I had the site people back there and unfortunately the site operator had a family emergency and had to leave immediately but he's coming back tomorrow morning I think you may have seen did you visit as well not oh some some someone came by I did you did okay I think someone else came by as well they said it was a female and yeah so I'm I drove by but I didn't start okay yeah any um he's coming back tomorrow morning and what we're doing is uh what's happened with the rainfall that's come down from the driveway side is this actually kind of uh built a little bit of a valley and because of the uh the slant coming down to the back it it welcomes the water to come through and uh and then when we dug out um you know the concrete damage that had been done when we dug that out I think that furthered the uh Valley a little bit more and this morning when they were there it was to fill that up and also on the back end of that probably about eight or 10 feet in front of the uh hay bales that are wind along the Wetland we're going to just put up a mount and just prevent that so um I was actually going to go over there before this meeting with the shovel and do it but then I looked at the forecast I didn't see rain this evening so so you said that went and visit a site after each rainfall I go there every yeah I'm there every day but I especially go with this rain I mean you were aware of the leeching that had gone down the hill before you heard from Chuck no no no I don't so well no the truth Brian is that uh I didn't go every time there was rainfall until Chuck alerted me to what had happened and I've been there every rainfall since that time so I did go back and I talked to Lewis and he showed me that the group the load of P Stone whatever had been off um so I came back that evening he said for sure it would be done that day when I went back to look yes down below I saw what that had been cleaned out but at the top of the hill where the original pile of concrete was yeah it's still discolored it's still a crust of uh concrete there it's not what it was it better but that's still there so there's still the risk of something leeching from that pile not to mention there's a crust there okay so I would like to see somebody go back yeah I I personally do there tomorrow morning I'm I'm going to meet them there so I'll walk up there and extract that I'll make sure that the valley that's been created from the waterfall is closed and also that we have a mound of dirt on the rear side in advance of the wetlands they have a mound the dirt one thing I noticed while I was there um the dirt behind the foundation that been pushed pretty far back and so a lot of it is either already fallen against the silk fence or close to doing it so I talked to Lewis and said talk to your operator if he's going to be working back there whenever to pull in the want pull forward or just don't let it fall out when they're doing that work yeah be aware that it's already mounded up against it okay it wouldn't take much St you begin to go over okay I'll I'll have them pull that forward tomorrow use the pitch Tom I was going to say that's a good point because even if it looks secure when it rains a lot of times it does just spill over you don't want it on the side those and when when I speak about a barrier like a amount of dirt it's really not amount of dirt all I want to do is create some level approach to the wetlands so that the water doesn't continue to Cascade down it's not to be build a big Mound it's really just to block it off yeah because right now the pitch is down and and it's welcoming it you're useing the word Mound reminds me of how far that Dirt has gone up against the F barrier just you a small barrier but I I'll be there tomorrow morning if anybody wants to come by or I can I can I can take pictures of it once it's completed and send it in that's always good I imagine I'll be by because I have no life but um send the pictures to yeah okay when you talk about making a mound of dirt to keep the water from flowing down I assume that's uphill of the silt fence and the hay bales that's correct it's probably about 10 or 12 feet uh toward the street side away from the hay barrels that are you know aligned toward the Wetland okay while in advance of that and then we'll just level it off yeah and I I think that'll prevent any any future damage it' be helpful to have some sort of um Sil fence or mulch sock or something at the back end of that mound so that it doesn't wash down to the hay bills does get water at it yeah and the currently is okay um so the silk fence wraps around uh almost in a u- shape not not the entire perimeter but but certainly well on both sides Beyond where the Wetland uh is yeah and the hay barrels probably go out I don't know maybe 10 to 12 feet on either side so the area that I'm talking about is was about the midpoint yeah oh maybe slightly left but it's kind of the midpoint is where I see a valley and I know how it was created it was created with cleaning out that area it was first created by just the water flow right from heavy rain and then when they dug out the concrete which they apparently they didn't finish the top I'll make sure that happens um it it further a valley it just welcomes the water to come through now the hay barrels we you know checked it when we came over advised us to you know we dug a little area we got them seated we hammered them in you called me and told me I had a hammer and better right went back that day did that sent pictures to Chuck and uh I I want to do everything right and so where wherever I get counsel uh I show you that it's going to take place there this what remember that that Ravine shape was a concern to us even in the approval process sure um because you knew the water was going to be going down there and St with a lot of rain is going to be down to with velocity sure and so we've had we definitely had some heavy rain and and one of the advantages as well the pulling the house forward certainly it gives a little bit of a larger backyard which I think will prent anybody from into the wetlands hopefully um but working that additional 10 feet away from it uh assists with honoring what we need to do to protect the wetlands but in addition to that it takes away the pitch of the driveway of which of course we have uh a drain on the back side of the driveway but because we moved it up 10 ft it reduces that whole flow coming from the street just simply because it's at a higher grade okay and so it actually U Jack put that together I think it's a pretty good idea yeah so just to go back to my question you said you've got hay bales and silt fence back here and then 10 feet closer to the road from there is where you're going to make that level soil yes but is there anything behind that level soil to prevent it from washing down the other way there can be because um so I had put some hay bales up closer to the street and I can remove those and put them on the other side of that uh I don't want to call it a mound but a barrier thank you I can put that there and then 10 feet in back of that is an addition row of hay bales and also with Sil fence this okay um and are there going to be any more concrete pores and if so can we have a better concrete wash out station which will not cause another situation down the road yeah you know we I talked about that with truck and Chuck actually came up with an idea of uh digging out a hole with lining it with plastic and and uh being able to capture any additional uh concrete which will be very minimal because the foundation is in and if there is any we will absolutely designate a spot on the front of the lot we'll dig that hole put the plastic in and anytime we you know cleaning materials or what whatever you know would cause that um we're going to capture it we're going to remove it just want to remember you you remove it just cover it up right yeah I'll send you a detail of a concrete wash out area thank you yeah yeah I remember talking about it with you yeah you have any other comment questions CH no I just think Tom's been pretty responsive I mean things have happened which we would like you to keep catch before they happen yeah but you have been going back I do have a concern also about what Matha was talking about because then the plans it shows that your your uh see if I'm right on it yeah this uh Field Stone retaining wall four feet high meets grade on one side and then has that drop off so right where it says existing grade you're G to get you're gonna have a little bit of problems there so I would anticipate not the hay bale but maybe you're going to get um some straw waddle for that area okay and just have something in front of it now this is in front of where you're not supposed to go but I think since you're building right on that line we would want something just right on the other side staked in and straw waddle they have that at Home Depot just a sock filled with straw and you can you could put that in and then once this stone wall is established it should be okay but until the grass goes in we need some Eros control at the top I don't know if you can STI it into the stone but just in front of the stone okay it's probably where it goes okay that's not my only comments okay sure Walter before I I don't want to leave you out is your hand up you all set I'm good to go thank you all right I think we're set thank you thank you very much you want to take a vote on the appr on the minor plan change yeah that would be a good I'm sorry I move to approve the minor plan change as discussed this is Tony I second that Walter talit in favor Tony rockus in favor Martha Mo in favor Brian B in favor okay all it thanks everybody good evening anybody uh on line that we should address uh yeah he said he'd be around 8:30 so we're a little little early uh so we're can stretch this for 15 more minutes so I don't know if everyone knows this that we're waiting for uh 445 Pearl Street who did reach out to me uh yesterday afternoon he said he has work uh but could call in around 8:30 9 o'clock but we are well ahead of our typical schedule here so maybe we can cover some other topics um is anybody online for Whittier no we have uh we have four people and that's that's us okay so then only the commission but we do have some business do you want to do that you want to just cover with yeah just just keep going and uh wherever you want to go right so um went out to uh 18 Whittier shog was with me um and we uh met the contractor there we looked over the various things that he had completed uh previously and then we talked to him about the two areas two other items that we would like to see addressed still which he agreed to do uh one was uh adding some ground cover and the back right um of the proper property inside the garden line if you will the other one was pulling the wood chips over back from some of them had gone out under the fence um and so pulled them back in um and uh those were the two topics um soy had a good conversation with him about those he said that he would update them and but no y uh and I can just fill you in say that they reached out to me almost immediately after the site visit and asked for uh any information I had on ground cover so I sent them what I had and uh so I think that they're eager to get that going you want to be done yeah okay so that's we here want to cover your business there chuck ah sure so uh we finalized the uh the draft of the no dogs allowed at bare Meadow sign and I have a quote here from Fast Signs for $425 even and I need a vote from the Conservation Commission that'll buy us five signs just looking for the 18 24 by 18 so a pretty big signs that's a big sign I thought they were going on a relatively small posts yeah I just noticed that for uh the first time you said they're $425 for the five sign yeah although it may it may be less if the size changes let me check on that it's it's uh we have bought these signs before and should be the same thing but I would I would suggest you just vote that I could spend up to $425 on these there some reduction I can I can still send them the money okay are there any questions before we get a motion no okay can I have a motion to uh authorize check to pay well to place that order I move that we authorize Chuck to place the order within the amounts discussed not to exceed the exceed 425 yeah anybody want a second I'll second that wter topits in favor Rus in favor arore in favor rbo in favor okay right um worth taking some time to mention that the next conservation DPW monthly meeting is September 3rd um I should be able to be there but I might need to leave at like 1:45 okay Tony uh and I'm plan on being there as well okay uh can we cover some of the minutes to approve while we're waiting sure um so do we have the 6162 proof sorry 626 gra my I have not seen that and read it so I can't that one tonight what about the 710 has everybody read the 710 I wrote them so I'm good W that's funny how that works um I read I had no comment okay Walter had his thumb up okay I read no comment it sounds like we can have a motion to approve the minutes for July 10th 2024 can I can who made the motion I was asking for a motion I can't make the motion I wrote the minutes well do you want to make the motion move we approve the mo minutes for July 10th I second Walter topits in favor Tony rakus in favor Martha Mo in favor ranbo in favor okay the minutes for 7:24 has everybody read them and or submitted comments I did not read them well did you read those right good yeah but if Tony didn't read them and there's only four of us we really can't vote on them because we need four vot in favor so we'll pass 74 which brings us to 8:14 I haven't seen 814 and Walter said he hasn't either so okay so we still need to see 8:14 and we need more people to have reviewed 724 okay they I'm piling up exactly we got one that's why that's why I sent the email today although I realized it was later than there should be to me give people a chance to review it but I we do that earlier next time okay um and I'm just gonna request chuck if you can include in your agenda email the next time yeah a copy of the July 24 so that people don't have to go dig back a month earlier to find it I just include all the minutes so so the ones you need to include are 626 724 and 8:14 easy thanks who's doing the 814 um sherro that's right good point but wife not here tonight okay oh and you might need to in L 828 if I am diligent yes yes as I say might yes but we'll have plenty of others to vote on okay uh just to loop back briefly uh no update on 52 Lis not expecting one just wanted to mention it um and I believe that is everything that we have before Mr Rivers joins us um just a little late to bring it up now but other years we have done a booth at like the streets there and I think we didn't make any efforts to do that this year and in the past I've been the one who saying let's go I'll be there I did not have that sensation this year so yeah and I have other plans that day so I can't volunteer I think it's fine okay we'll skip this Street Fair this year now volunteers for different books um and thinking about the no dog sign um are we making any more plans other than just to post the signs at this point I'm not sure what you get that um there were discussion of um how we would enforce the no dogs Rule once we have the signs in place and I think maybe that's not on today's agenda so we can't discuss it but something maybe we can put on a future agenda okay yeah it's worth putting something on there to talk about how we enforce it would we need to have tickets would there be a warning before all that all that future agenda yes correct so um have you so I've been down there a few times I haven't uh run into I haven't seen anyone with a dog but before we posted the signs I did and I and I mentioned it to maybe you know six people letting them know so um I think for right now we were just the policy would be to have the tickets and if you if you notice someone a second time you know go ahead and write a ticket but maybe the first time would be a warning I will say that since August 1 I have seen two people and I fully believe that they're not frequent visitors so I just told them about the change yeah I think education is our first plan but yeah um and Chuck have the temporary signs contined to be vandalized or are they yeah would we expect that to continue with the permanent signs that behavior I don't know they're G be you know they're aluminum they're going to be bolted the the ones that they're taking down are just um it's paper on the kiosk yes it's just a piece of paper but they're laminated you know there somehow back it is possible somebody could them it would take more effort I mean and even though even though people are taking them down I mean that's one more person that noticed and so it it's also going in the manager's minute this month it's been in the newspaper I've gotten a few calls I haven't got too many calls most people most people are just saying hey this is open space and you know how can you make um that decision for other people and I point them to the Autobon study I point them to the fact that we had talked about it from February to June and I mentioned all the the other things that are that that we talk about the bathroom the the being freid um so to explain that more I you know was brought up in the meetings that when dogs urinate uh the scent is there and uh it's it's known to uh scare birds away scare animals away they feel like they're being hunted or being stocked even when the dog is not around so even when people are there there and that urine is still there it has the same feeling it has the same effect so I say all the things that we've learned through this process I don't think that they're absolutely happy about it but at least they know the information then I point them to the website and so our website has all that information and it has that document that I put together and it has the uh bare plan so I me there's also studies that show up to a 40% reduction in bird individuals a big reduction in bird species there's the fracturing of habitats there the fact that threatened wildli uh doesn't get to uh eat in the most desirable places doesn't get cover in the most desirable places so it has a domino somebody's in the waiting room oh good yep thank you Alor and I also was thinking about that this is only one way in which we're trying to improve our management of the bare Meadow property um we've already put the trail around the outside edge um we're planning to twim back trees that are encroaching so it's not like this is the only thing we're doing it's part of a larger master plan as Chuck said that he's stewardship directing people to that stewardship plan yeah it it hasn't been an overwhelming amount of people that called I mean that must be because it's been approved but um the signs keep coming down it could be the same person but rest assured the one that's taking him down knows that there's no dog allowed some because he has has all the signs like taking it down and putting it on the refrigerator so they remember I did find one on the ground and I would appreciate it if it wasn't turned into litter but uh outside of that okay you're ready for the last yeah so Michael Rivers is is here uh Michael if you want to turn your video on if you want but at least unmute yourself um and let us know you're here and introduce yourself for the record hi Michael can you hear me y I can hear you uh can you just introduce yourself for the record sure I'm Mike Rivers uh homeowner for 445 Pearl Street sure so uh at the direction of the Conservation Commission uh actually I'll back up a little bit more uh in 2021 the Conservation Commission through by way of the DPW Department noticed that uh the stream next to Michael River's house was altered was uh was uh the course of the stream was changed so it would flow further away from 443 Earl Street and we reached out to Michael Riv asked him what's going on Michael admitted that uh it had been some work that he had been doing he uh to make a long story short he hired um Williams and sparagis to come up with a plan to restore the restore the stream back to its uh original location uh and do some improvement planting on the bank and um we had uh agreed to the plan the commission approved it this was all kept within a enforcement order and that uh we had met on a day that the work was about to start but uh as I understand it Mike's dad was in the hospital that day and so what work didn't start so since that point uh the commission has tried to reach out a few times even stopping by and knocking on the door and ringing the doorbell uh so finally last meeting the commission directed me to send uh update and send a new enforcement order which Mike received he reached out to me and let me know that uh he can attend tonight's meeting as it stated in the enforcement order and that he had all the intentions of moving forward and uh he was actually going to purchase some erosion control as per the plan so Mike that's what I know about your project if there was something else that I missed uh PE please feel free to uh update the Conservation Commission okay uh yeah I did reading through the enforcement order I did see some dates and and I don't see any problem at all with beginning to do the work by the 15th of September I think was on the order um I've already procured started the procurement of of many of the things like the um the willow the coconut uh coer logs and um so I'm probably halfway there and and the other remaining items I don't see any issue with procurement within the next week or so so I I think in good shape that way do you have any sense of um when this might be completed I really it doesn't appear to be really a um a large scope of work kind of for the most part that 60 foot section uh by the street so I think that could easily be done within a couple of weeks so I I see I think we can be able to get that all done this fall okay and does that include um I think the last time I was there the uh parking area next to the driveway seems to have expanded towards the stream a bit yes that's the area I'm referring to yeah right right by the right by the okay I just want to emphasize that whatever you do needs to be done against the uh approved plan that we all agreed to yep yeah that's exactly what I'm referring um all the procurement based on that plan okay then since you're thinking it might be straightforward and pretty quick why don't we uh add an agenda item for you to come back at our next meeting so we can get a status update sure right so that would be September 11th yeah okay so at that point you can let us know what you've managed to do any issues you've run into and what you think uh the future of the project looks like at that point yeah sounds good okay are there any question yes Martha I'm just wondering who's going to be doing the actual work to put in the quar logs and The Willow and everything that would be me okay um and I know that on the plan it gives a slope I think one side is a 1.5 to one slope and the other is a 2: one slope how are you going going to make sure you get the correct slopes when you're putting the materials in for the erosion or the soil the bank reconstruction I'll use math the um I have lasers this is what I do for a living too somewhat you know construction so so you're confident you have the skills to do this project 100% okay than thank you I forget offand have the plantings um along the bank been planted already no they have not okay I got to set those those uh coconut kooy logs and then do those plantings those tuings right next to those on the bank side and you're comfortable you have uh the enough expertise to do that properly y I do okay um one thing that should be noted is uh we will need to authorize Chuck to update the enforcement order with the date that we just talked about the 11th how about with two items uh Michael could you let us know uh give us 72 hours notice before you're actually going to start the work so we can be out out there I mean I understand you know I I know a little bit about Jack your dad and the river family so I understand this is it's completely possible that you know how to use heavy equipment so but the commission doesn't know that and so if you could let us know the date um that you're going to start and uh we could just check it before you get too far because it doesn't make any sense to head off in the wrong direction and then have to redo all that work so two things I'll update the plan requesting you to come back for the September 11th meeting for an update and I don't know if the work will stop before then but whenever the work starts we want 72 hours notice and that can be an email or a phone call where you leave a message at the conservation office sure yeah I was I was ipating um not proceeding at all until I place the uh irrigation sock and get your approval on site the placement of them okay good um and Chuck when you say 72 hours that's during your work week Monday through Thursday right yeah so if you called on a yeah if we don't want you to call on Wednesday and tell me tell us you're going to start on Friday but but if you can give us those three days it would be it would be great absolutely yeah okay given that then we should vote on authorizing Chuck to make those two changes to the enforcement order can I have that motion please move that Chuck made changes to the enforcement order I'll second that sure and the Chang the date and 72 hours notice yes the the sept coming back on September 11th for an update yeah Walter voted yes Tony Rus yes Marth Moore yes R yes thank you Michael yeah thanks you're welcome see you before too long I know okay I believe that is everything anything else before we I have uh I have the updated enforcement order everyone signed it here so Walter I'll have to track you down is there possible you can come to the town hall tomorrow to sign the uh the enforcement order which was you to ratify that actually but I I don't have a car until Friday you don't have a car you want me to come to you if you can just I'll be here all day I'll be at my house all day tomorrow yeah yeah so uh I'll I'll uh I can bring it to you okay you have to promise to answer the door yeah he has to promise to knock on it so before we're done Chuck stupid question you know where I live yeah I didn't want you to say online no I I don't want to say online either I'm just asking you the question let us wrap up by uh voting to ratify the enforcement order p a motion didn't we just do that um no we we moved to modify it two different questions so so Walter one already went out and I already sent it to um I already sent it to D so they're gonna want that enforcement order that I sent signed by the commission so that's the one we're ratifying out but now you've asked me to update again so we'll be doing this at the next meeting also I did not make that c okay I move that we ratify the enforcement order that Chuck sent out for 445 Pearl Street Walter you want to second that Walter talet seconds that motion Walter talber approves that motion this in favor AR the more in favor R in favor okay thought I don't I think I think we've this is usually I forget about so yeah great okay can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting at 8 39 84040 okay I move to adjourn at 8:40 going to Second us adjourn it this is T I will second every we in favor and I we use the new G all right thanks everyone see you later I'll see you tomorrow Walter I'll send you an email okay question thanks bye now right right let's end the meeting and e for