e e e e e e e e e recording in progress settled hello everyone this is Chuck Jani readings conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which further extend the certain provisions of covid-19 measures regarding remote participation in public meetings until March 31st 2025 please note that not all this all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law this agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at the meeting please note that tonight's meeting is being recorded all materials for this meeting will be available at the following link which I will provide in the chat as soon as I'm finished with the script and um MOA Moore the Conservation Commission chair and facilitate this meeting please note there will be a public comment period at the end of each hearing each vote taken during tonight's meeting will be conducted by roll call we will begin with the roll call attendance Rie tonight's agenda and pck the rad call attendance um we are going to be hearing about the DPW roadway repair um and then also road maintenance by Boston gas um we've closed the hearing on 252 to 262 Main Street but we need to um discuss the conditions for that and um prepare for the order of conditions we have a hearing continued on Zer Forest Street which is located between 126 and 106 Forest Street and um we're going to discuss the Town Forest s sidewalk um and discussion that the Town Forest committee had at their meeting and then um we have two certificates of compliance to look at um 123 Lyla lane and then 52 Lanas drive and then we have some violation notices that we may have updates on a discussion of land use of bare Meadow conservation land and a few odds and ends at the end all right um uh would you say your name when I call you so we know that you can hear me and we can hear you Walter Walter talet member present Bill Bill M member present Andrew Andrew drien member present Tony Tony wus member present Brian Brian bro Vice chair present and Martha Moore chair present and we have three other people here in the room who have signed in and Charles Chuck terone conservation administrator right um thank you uh so we can turn to our first um public hearing tonight what we do okay ah yes just to let you know we are starting the meeting at um uh let me get to my clock um 708 okay and um all right so Chuck do you want me to read read the blurb about the DPW yes okay um open the public hearing on a request for determination of applicability filed by Ryan persal for the town of reading under the Massachusetts Wetland protection act mgl chapter 131 section 40 and or the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes routine surf resurfacing maintenance and Road repair of eight roadways consisting of approximately four miles portions of the work are within 100 foot buffer zone and 200 foot Riverfront the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 LEL Street Reading Mass 01867 and on the conservation division page under project by year assessors map various lot numbers and various RCC file numbers 20242 we have uh Ryan peral Town engineer here Ryan can you unmute and introduce yourself for the record uh Ryan pel Town runting Town engineer that coming in clear enough yes all right excellent uh Chuck do you mind letting me share the screen and I can put up I I'll just put up the map I think that's probably the best thing that we've done in the past yes you have that permission all right thank you just one second please can everyone see my the PDF here yes yes all right excellent um so like I said in the past we've uh I can go through the document but this is usually pretty pretty straightforward and everyone usually likes to look at the plan instead of everything else um what we've done here on G is we've we've basically laid out all of our our streets and let me see if I can get them all in one there we go um we've laid out all of our streets and we've overlaid basically the resource areas and buffer them out and anywhere where these touch um is usually where you have jurisdictional area that being said um like I've said in the past all of our roads that we do we Implement all of the B bmps on them regardless of where we are um and so what you're looking at here is on the blue streets um we have usually two primary means of road paving we have milling and overlaying and we have reaiming uh the roadways uh Mill and overlay is essentially just taking off about two inches of asphalt and putting two inches of asphalt back on a roadway um without getting into the subbase material and that's what you see in Blue uh the red is a reclaim that's a little bit different we pulverize about a foot of material um grinds everything up into a dirt uh makes a better subbase we grade it um roll it and then we pave 4 in 5 Ines of material on top of that as well um and those are in the red areas so um that being said total this year we have about eight streets that we're looking to do which equates to about four miles of road paving and as you can see pretty much every single road that we have in town that we're Paving touches some one of these areas um so what we plan on doing is uh all the catch basins will be have silk sacks in them and areas where we have areas of concern so like Charles Street and all these other up buding areas where we have tempex swamp area and things like that we'll have um erosion controls in place specifically in those areas where we have reclaims um we usually walk these sites prior to any construction and um set the limits of work and the limits of Roos control with the conservation administrator Chuck Tyrone we've done that for the past I don't know as long as Chuck has been here so um again it's pretty straightforward I'm I'm happy to answer any questions regarding what we have here um but you can see we have eight streets we have Summer Avenue wurn street uh the second half of LOL Street Charles Street portion of Timber t uh Dana Road and Johanna and arrow currently planned for Paving the this year anybody on the commission have questions and I have a question I can't see if there's hands raised so Chuck you'll have to let me know I will okay Telly Ryan on the I think it's the east side of Charles Street um for most of that stretch there's no curb and right so I I I assume you're going to put up you know some type of a of a malt sock or some type of a barrier um which would be great during the road repair uh but after the road repair um there's still a lot of opportunity for for runoff into Timber neck swamp directly from from the street um without getting into catch phas does this project by any chance include installing a curb cut uh unfortunately not um we're very limited on what we can do for curving and sidewalk we have a very small budget for that um some of that money for curving and sidewalk is going to be placed in areas where we have uh some stop gaps so we have about a 100,000 budgeted for that Paving is just primarily just Paving so we we're going to put back and meet existing grade that we have there that's not to say that um we won't be making trying to make some improvement so we don't have that sheet flow and I'm very aware of the area that that you're talking about there's a there's a lower area um on that east side of Charles Street um that we're going to try to push down with some grading to to keep that channel flow in the roadway as opposed to sheeting over the sidewalk um other than that it's going to be all done with grading manipulating of the roadway and crowning as opposed to any curbing work because it's just it's just not in the budget to do that thank you anybody else with questions Ryan everyone Ryan um yeah how long do you expect the erosion control to stay in place after the work is done so uh the good thing about this type of work is generally speaking we only really um we only disturb usually within the confines of the roadway and and maybe within a foot outside of that right so if it's a reclaim we might touch a little bit more than the edge of travel away so to answer your question we can keep these erosion controls in at least for like the silt um uh not the silt socks I'm sorry the uh silt sacks yeah the not the silt sacks the uh help me out here Chuck the uh the erosion control that we're going to put the mulch socks or whatever we put down on that side we can leave them in place until we have any sort of looming and seaing that has to establish to stay in place so we don't have any of that erosion yeah that would be good at the same time like to be sure that they do get picked up as opposed to being there for a long time like they were on gr Street right correct I I understand the um and so it's a little bit different we had some issues with that prior contractor um as we work through with these other contractors I'm sure we'll we'll be able to pick those up if not again we have a highway division that that's very capable of going in there and taking them up um but that's that's noted thank you thank you any other questions or comments any Chuck do you have anything yeah Ryan I was just wondering um where the staging area is and if there's any opportunity for the contractor to drive off the road and park and should we uh like highlight those areas on the plan within the jurisdiction and not allow any parking within our 100 foot buffer zone 200 foot river front if it's within the work area so that's a good question you know we always and you know not just particular because we're in jurisdictional areas but we always have an issue with staging you know especially with road equipment because it it can't migrate too far away from where they are with the roadway because we have to move it um but in the areas of Charles Street let's just focus on Charles Street because it looks like that's probably the most sensitive area um it's a little difficult because I absolutely don't want them in that Cemetery as well so we're going to have to work on finding an an area there where they can be parked and I would I would like to say that they'd have to stay within the roadway confines and not be off that road at all if it is on the roadway um but it is a very long stretch for us to walk those Machinery that Machinery back down every day so I Juck I think that'd be something if if you're willing to we can make walk that area and make that decision and make it clear to the contractor on where the noo zone is I guess we're par yeah just assuming if the if the if the cemetery is a noo Zone and and and that's kind of known and established we want to do the same not only want to do the same thing but we want to carry through with that with our conservation areas we've had some problems in the past not with the town but other contractors working in the town leaving stockpile area is messing up you know ruts and whatnot and not raing those out and cleaning but so be best just to keep out of that area yeah I I I agree it it's it that's going to be that section's going to be a little bit difficult and so you know the issue will mo more or less be maybe not when we're pulverizing but more when we're grading and so I think maybe the discussion is more of a means and methods of open up what you can and grade what you can so we're not you know we're able to like Park on an area that's paved or we're able to ride down the road um yeah I mean I I completely understand what you're saying I agree with you I think it's we pick one of those side streets that's not in a sensitive area that's what we do the stage I think I think Timber neck Drive is less sensitive than Charles Street for us because there's houses you know between the Wetland and the work timberneck yeah I I agree I mean that easterly portion of of Charles Street I mean that's Timber Swan right so I mean that's you know we're aware of that and we don't want them parking in and around that area either so I think timberneck maybe you know maybe Harrison I know Harrison's been a staging area for a lot of work recently but um that's probably where you'll see the Machinery if I had a guess is that Harrison is this over the summer is this work over so yeah so yeah well so that is there's a potential there for for to be at kilum um I'd have I can't say that certainly because I haven't worked that out with the with the school department at all or facilities um but that is an option for us it's not a far walk it's right there Harrison is on a section where we're already doing some of the work so I mean that's probably where you're going to see some of the material or some mainly the uh equipment being you know store there um and a lot of these roads have to be done in the summertime because they're around school zones so um I think we're just going to have to work that out with the contractor and as we put the contract out establish those areas of of concern that we don't want them parking on okay I don't see any other hands up so maybe we to anyone attending tonight's meeting is there anyone from the general public who would like to speak and I'm trying to Institute a three minute per person rule for speaking so anyone in the room who wants to speak on this topic anyone online uh yeah just use the reactions button and uh just hit the raise hand functions if you would like to speak and you're online uh seeing none let me just with that seeing none you can go back to commission comments or we have any final comments or can we have a motion on this hearing do you want to take the oh yeah uh Ryan could you uh just drop yes I'm sorry thank you there we go okay and I have a motion if we have no F further comments this Brian I make a motion for negative determination for thew roadway second Walter can you start the voting Walter talet m in favor m in favor Andrew D in favor in favor RB in favor Martha Mo in favor moved by Brian um B negative determination Andy seconded and six z uh in favor we talk about conditions down yes and then go on to the issues v y okay what conditions do we need sure yeah uh anybody uh the conditions uh for this uh pick up the road control at the end of the job staging areas outside the re uh the conservation jurisdiction I guess would be the best way to say it anything else we're concerned about I think we're always I don't know if it needs to be a condition but we always uh drive around and locate the erosion control site specific for each one of these areas you do that with that right I do yes do we need to include street sweeping the project is over I don't think so I think that's part of uh what what ends up happening or everybody in town would call with broken wind Shields no what usually happens is we'll sweep after we Mill and then when we PVE there's little to no residue after we we were all so and um do we need to include seaing any place that got um the soil a good idea yeah do we want a deadline by which they will pick up the mulch sock like before winter well uh how how does that work Ryan do they uh they would pick it up then Reed at that at that time yeah so depending on where it goes right um we if we're putting it right up against the edge of the road then we would it's it gets tricky right Chuck because we have to try to plant or recede under where it was if we did have any um growth that died I think we have to just look in each instance on and I we could again drive that with you just look at each instance on where we can pull it up and establish that looming and seaing and then what areas need to stay and where we have to go back and and keep that in place if if that's a okay with you you we'll have to make a running list for receding and play it by ear with removing the erosion control prior to uh grass establishing itself okay any other conditions needed Bill Walter anybody else have condition okay so vote to issue does that need another vote Yes okay can I have a motion to issue I move to issue the conditions second Walter toppits in favor govern K in favor Andrew D in favor 2us in favor in favor Marth in favor 6 Z in favor moved by Tony ISS uh seconded by Andy okay our next thing is I thank you Ryan y 262 Main Street we already closed that so we just need to do the conditions for that one no we have a roadway oh oops I jumped ahead sorry road maintenance for John Street and John Street Court by Boston gas do we have somebody here from Boston gas yes uh just uh let the representative from Boston glass can you turn your yeah and introduce yourself for the record please hello my name isora Lovel toell with BSC group I'm here on behalf of the Boston gas company welcome um hi um so this was a letter for um some exempt work the scope of the work uh for the project is the replace M of um existing gas M along John Street and John Street Court in uh within ring within the 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetland um the work is to be completed by Boston gas company they're going to excavate along and replace um about 2900 ft of existing gas M and 250 linear feet is within the 100 foot buffer zone um all of this is within the roadway of John Street and John Street Court um the they will be cutting into the pavement entrenching approximately 18 in wide 12 in of clearance um and they're replacing the coated steel gas with plastic gas M of the same size uh best management practices will be implemented to avoid any impacts to the resource areas uh the area will be stabilized um any excess boils will be removed and they will back fill the trench with any excavated material and uh patch the roadway surface and I believe we did send an environmental resource map as well Chuck do you have that there we go my internet connection is uh not great so perfect so just that yellow is the replacement the red is existing that is not being replaced um and so in total it's about 4,400 square fet of disturbance within the buffer zone within the roadway so so this is in front of the commission because uh Boston gas uh wants to use the Wetland protection act to as an exempt project for this roadway maintenance and the commission is going to say yes or no to that request um you know B and gas unfortunately cannot just deem themsel exempt it's the commission after they review the project that can say yes this applies and we just heard the project see where it is and most of the work or all of the work will be in the RO the existing roadway and uh you know we just saw Ryan come through with a permit this one has a has an exemption so anyways I just wanted to say that to kind of like get people to understand that you know this is not an RDA this not a notice of intent this is just find out if we believe that this is an exempt project and is the only part of the project that is near Wetland is this part that we're seeing on the screen right now yes the only part within 100 foot buffer is this the yellow Lines within the roadway and where will your equipment be parking when it's not actually doing the work like overnight in between project so this is only a small part most of this project is not so this part I would expect is within a day so they would not be parking within and I have spoken with Boston gas company to ensure that there will be no parking within the buffer good anybody else Brian yeah um so my first question is why are you replacing the coated steel with the uh plastic um this is a sort of typical maintenance that they're doing um typically because the coated steel is um needs to be replaced and plastic lasts longer um that is sort of what I know it is maintenance of the the gas Ms that are there so how long has this deal pip been in place I do not know the answer to that but I can find out I'm just wondering um whether it's necessary this is some reason to do it or just you've decided this time usually it is because they have a life cycle um and so they are trying to replace it before it gets close to the end um to avoid any possible disturbance or accidents if you're doing it because of a life expectancy I would have expected to see that information in this request um next topic you talk about um uh using the dug up soil U to put it back if it's suitable what determines if it's suitable when do you determine that if the excavated soil will be replaced with it um any any excess will be removed um so this is not if I could jump in yes um in the last of your blow it items it says uh we perform restoration including removing all unsuitable soils from the site so that implies to me that you're going to take something away if it's unsuitable what makes it unsuitable how do you determine that when do you determine that it would only be unsuitable if um if it would not is excess spoils or um and we don't have that in this case um contaminated soil I there is not um on this map I do not see any um contaminated soil markings but that would be one but if in the course of excavation you find some type of aill or an odor would investig something could come up yes exactly you presumably follow the the standards in the Massachusetts contingency plan yes of course yeah and one last one Bill and then happy for you um so what's the duration of this and just as importantly uh how long after the work is done is the uh or any control is going to stay in place so because it's within the roadway as soon as the work is done um and the ground is filled and the is patched there would be no need for erosion controls um so they would be removed once all of that is done um so then what's the duration of the project I don't know the full duration it does so the project won't really get scheduled until it is ready to go from here um so so my thought is that you're G to dig it up put the uh the soil aside and it's going to stay there for some period time does that get replaced the same day does that stay for it will be yeah so they will only open and then they will close daily okay this is typically called cut and cover so they they won't open up anything and whatever comes out of the excavation goes back in and the old pipe stays inside that excavation also they've come to reading many times uh so it doesn't look like it's more than a two-day project but it should be cleaned up wherever they work by the end of that day yes okay have Bill's turn uh thank you um so uh I'm looking at the uh regulatory provision um the exemption installation of underground utilities including gas within existing paved or unpaved roadways Etc provided that all work is conducted within the roadway or driveway and all trenches are closed at the completion of each work day so I just want to be clear to the applicant I'm not aware of the commission having any jurisdictional basis to ask you why you're replacing your pipes and so forth but we do have a legal basis to be concerned about staging and so forth um you currently happen to be work gas lines are being replaced in in U my section of reading and uh I I do see that on a daily basis the soil is returned to the ground and so forth but um you know based on information from the conservation administrator we we have reason to be concerned that in the past there have been staging areas uh developed by Boston gas that that were left and um that's created some problems that that would not be within the exemption uh because it would not be uh work conducted within the roadway or driveway so just want to make clear that um that is a concern of ours and it is well grounded in law that uh we can't have Boston gas um creating staging areas and then leaving them that way um because that is not uh conduct Ed within the roadway or driveway um so I just wanted to make that point thanks yes thank youbody else that is just to address that that is not within Boston gas companies um best management practices that as you know they they do open close within a day um and should not be leaving anything behind anybody else Andrew guess my only question is more for chucks would it make sense to require permit just for that small area around General way or do we is that overstepping our jurisdiction I I believe there uh they're um I believe they meet this threshold for an exemption but you could you know I mean what the problem's always been with this kind of Road way work is the staging areas and Boston gas has the best intentions I see them coming in with the best groups uh being their consultants and whatnot but it's it's all about how often that consultant gets out there and checks out these areas because like I said on on L Street I think it's W Street down in that area and Plymouth Road that was an area that they used for staging and I think they were there for several days and it never was repaired it was brought up to the Boston gas reps that had the area back in the day and now that area is a parking spot for one of the neighbors and uh unfortunate but we always told that it was going to be cleaned up so for your for your question no I think they qualify for the exemption but that's your decision to make and then comments about the staging area is appropriate I mean I just asked because we were at a Market Basket this week because they didn't pull a permit for that work it just gets a little confusing for these contractors and some of them are need to pull permits some of them don't yeah from my point of view just for consistency that's just paperwork but I think just for that small area that was right CH into the wetlands Market Basket needed to contact us the difference here is BS of gas did contact us and sent us letter allowing us to react um and uh you know you see what happens they pave their whole area we asked them to go out there and put in a roach control uh the commission decided that that was sufficient had other options with that but with this one here so Mar Bic doesn't have an exemption in the wellness protection act so okay are there any um storm drains in the area that you're going to be digging up that it would be a good idea to put Sil sacks in during the Milling process or The Cutting open of the ground erosion controls will be installed um prior to the opening the ground especially around any storm drains any um anything that would need um an erosion control I do not have them mapped on this map but um we will be providing a you know a map for them and they will be installing erosion controls okay thank you anybody else on the commission it's one quick question is it possible to get notice to my office uh 72 hours before they start yes I can request that okay thank you Bill Walter any other questions are there any members of the public in the room or online you can use the reaction function and click the raise hand button okay are we ready for a motion motion would be to accept that they have exempt status I'll make a motion that Austin gas is exempt or the work toony second Walter topits in favor Bill m in favor Andrew D in favor Lo in favor in favor Marth Moore in favor 600 moved by Andy seconded by Tony to um uh agree that this is an exempt project okay thank you all right thank you all right so next on the list is and should I read the whole blur let me say yes but it's up to you all right I will and then we can just do the conditions um continue the public hearing on a notice vent filed by sario Bill Cen elvd reading LLC pursuing to Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act Andor the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant is proposing site improvements including the demolishing of three buildings clearing of existing vegetation and constructing one mixed use building other improvements to the site include construction of surface parking landscaping and Underground utilities servicing the site portions of the work are within the 100 foot buffer zone to a bordering vegetated Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 L Street weding mass and on the conservation division page under the project bye assessor map 11 lot 192 194 and 196 D file number 27- 0779 the meeting was Clos previously so we're discussing the um conditions for the order of conditions okay who has conditions that they want to make sure get in there the notes I had were dumpsters out of the buffer zone uh lighting Wildlife friendly lighting and there was a question about just general trash control I want to make sure we get in threeyear survivability of the plantings and any fencing that they put up should have a gap under the fence for wildlife squirrels and things to be able to get under the fence guess not squirrels but but turtles or whatever squirrels can go over but whatever needs to go under there needs to be a gap under the fence yes Chipmunks and then it seems like the funding is kind of intended from that email from nle it's intended for conservation so that seems good enough for the conditions yeah Andrew said that when he sets up the account he will uh put it under the conservation commission's control I feel like even if he didn't um it's for the Pineville Conservation Area any other requests could go to Andrew you know commission makes a request I could take it to Andrew he could consider it uh feel like he had ultimate control over this he would always be involved somehow when we use this money but we can think of it as our own and uh do things uh with it that are appropriate to keep uh Pine Veil maintained and I would say I would think there would be uh I mean people at the site you can't forget where it came from I think people at this site in my opinion would want to do some walking and possibly they' want to cut through Pineville Conservation Area to get to uh Washington Park and so I would I would think that that would be we want to make sure that that area is available and we look at that but keep the whole place up also and I talked about uh needing about half a parking spot to create a handicap dedicated handicap par spot so these nothing's on the table now they're all come in front of the commission first get approval and then and then Mo move on we have just recently done a lot of work on the trails and boardwalks in pineale over the last two years so uh this is great to have this uh additional money available that's so that's uh what I know about that money okay explain it pretty well bill or Walter do either of you have um conditions that you want to make sure are included okay we're all good a trail to Washington Park would be nice it sounds like that would um get decided later through yeah yeah so connected to the north side for for something like that it all goes through the trail committee or we'd have to pay for someone else or find our own volunteers you know we do have next step volunteers gonna come in again this year but most trails and I would want to keep it this way are collaborative between conservation new trails and the trails committee so it would be presented to them and we would have to because it would be a new Trail uh straight over it would be it would be great um so there's no other conditions oh oh I I just wanted to agree with both of you uh knowing being in that Community knowing a lot of people in the community who use it a trail like that and what you're saying about how it's done makes a lot of sense but I just wanted to add my voice to it it'd be a terrific idea it would be well used and it would accomplish a goal we have of course as a of getting the public out there to enjoy these openes thanks okay uh so the uh the area of focus is just kind of around that parking area it's a small bit of land we have the trees we have curbing whatnot uh the dumpsters just outside of it native trees there's nothing else that should be a condition we could move on to um our vote to issue because we already had a vote to close and since it's closed there's no public comment right that's correct and and if we had like a get that because it's closed I don't need to ask right okay so can I have a motion to issue this Brian make a motion to issue issue for 252 to 262 this is Bill MCC I'll second the motion Walter toits in favor of the motion bman in favor Andrew dri in favor Tony Lo in favor I'm V in favor Martha Moore in favor okay Brian Bo moved to issue Bill seconded and 600 in favor thank you very much we have 04 Street next up and yeah I don't see Morin here yet no she not okay but okay we we can go on so we agree okay yeah so let's uh let's go on we have Jack here Jack can you introduce yourself and I'll read sure you can okay should I not read the ver I like it when you read the blur yeah continue the notice of intent filed by Thomas Walsh Trinity Home Builders LLC pursuant to Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act and or the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant is proposing construction of a new single family house paved driveway Hardscape Landscaping deck and grade and site grading within the 100 foot bu bucker Zone to a bordering vegetated wetland the application and plans can be VI during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street ready and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessors map 33 lot 92 D file number 27- 0784 okay Jack great thank you very much uh for the record my name is Jack suvan I'm owner of the Solomon Engineering Group and when we were before you two weeks ago um number of comments from the commission some comments from the public we did a lot of work um to the plan set I'm gonna give you a summary of just let me know where you want to St that for Street area or that's good right there ch um so since our last meeting um the owner hired Norse environmental uh services to come out uh to review the BBW flags and also um to place new Vernal pool Flags down since we're in the Vernal pool season so I survey located those flags the BBW Flags did not change from your site walk um now the numbers on my plan match the flags in the field and I did locate the Vernal pool flags at Marin Harold hung um and I show them as well um in Lo ating the bvw and the Vernal pool Flags I um there was slight adjustment to the um to the buffer zones um the I show a 100 foot Vernal pool buffer as I did before um for informational purposes since I was asked by one of the commission members I do show a 200 foot buffer zone from the Vernal pool as well and I adjusted the 2535 and 100 foot BBW buffers as needed um on April 16th we conducted two soil test hols on site um these test hlls were conducted since we were proposing drainage for the site uh from our last meeting I had shown a dryw uh to be installed to capture the roof runoff from the proposed house but I didn't show any sort of storm water mitigation for the driveway um if you pan up a bit Chuck yeah so now uh for the driveway I show at at the very end of the driveway I show a trench drain so water will come down the driveway be collected in the trench drain it'll flow to a deep sump manhole so this pre-treatment um for the water so um any settlement or soil can settle out and then the water will continue to a dry well so we have a a dedicated thousand gallon dry well um for the driveway drainage and we have a dedicated thousand gallon drywell um for the roof area um I do show the soil logs on my design plans I show where the seasonal High groundwater table is in the soil conditions that we found um when I was out in the field locating the Wetland Flags I also flagged um the trees that were six inches or greater uh within the 100 foot bvw setback for commission members um I did add one additional tree to be cut um as you're looking at the plan and the upper left corner there was one large tree um it was a concern that um on that Hill um when we started removing and Excavating if there was any damage to that root system that tree would ultimately um have some problems so we're showing it to be taken down and based on the commission's feedback last time um I showed more variety of shrubs and trees to be planted for this project at the ratios um in your tree pocy um another thing that we I showed a proposed retaining wall towards the rear property line for this project um mistakenly i h it within the 35 foot no structure Zone the last meeting I moved it so the uh retaining wall is now entirely outside of the 35 foot no structure Zone and I provided a construction detail it will be a a a field stone wall it's less than four feet in height so it's not a structural wall but it will be constructed so with the trench drain I provided detail of the trench drain on the plan set at the last meeting check uh noted I showed the proposed deck off the rear of the house with a set of steps down to the rear yard I didn't have a concrete uh Landing for that bottom step I added it to the plant um at the last hearing we had some talk about uh the Charles that neighbor across the street mentioned they had seen Turtles Crossing so what we try to do to be proactive on the on the right hand side of the property we're proposing a 15 foot wide Wildlife Corridor strip to remain natural and wooden you can see um we set our limit of work line outside of that 15 foot area um so we think you know you most of that's within the 100 foot uh bvw buffer zone but we're offering that as a protected Corridor not to be cut to provides wildli Wildlife access we did also review Maps I remember at the last meeting on the opposite side of far stre we were looking at some of the Town GIS maps and we did notice a large Wetland area in the back um we did verify that uh we did and if they are able to cross the street there's a Cape Cod burm on each side of Forest Street they are able to get over that through this site um so we feel with that Wildlife Corridor and um the other areas of the lot they'll be able to make their way through to other resource areas um few other things that happened Norse environmentals submitted all their D um soil forms Wetland forms we also received we put in a request to natural heritage to get some information on the Vernal pool when it was certified I think back in 1992 that information was provided and submitted to the commission um it was it was a little rough but it generally it showed it the same general location that we had another question was um to the rear of our lot right actually right at our rear lot line there's a conservation easement and the commission asked that I look into that a bit so I did um back in 1998 there was an order of conditions issued for the YMCA property um as part of that order there was the a conservation restriction um was placed over a portion of that property um in the conservation rri restriction interestingly enough the the um the the plan that they put together that shows the restriction area shows the certified Vernal pool the 100 foot buer the bvw line it's almost identical to what we have on our plan I did bring a copy of it but that that was in the last page of the conservation easement documents that youed so I think that's a pretty good indication of um that we have the Vernal p in good shape I did get a text from maren she won't be able to attend tonight she had another herea um she was providing a bunch of corresponden of some of it in and after your onee deadline we that um but I do want to note that when she did do the Vernal pool delineation she did put a letter together dated April 23rd to the commission saying um she did not observe species that would make this a a certified Vernal pool at this time we're not trying to say we're not trying to take away the certification of the Vernal pool but she also said observations in the paperwork that was submitted from National Heritage say OB observations made in 1992 and 1997 do not meet today's requirements for um that's been submitted I know you probably haven't had too much time to receive it I think what's important to note though too is that um the entire 100 foot uh buffer zone of the veral pool um is outside of our work area and also Mari noted that this property is not located within within an estimated or priori habitat area um so we did a lot of work we we tried to pull together a lot of the information I think we made some good improvements to the project um I know I hit you with a lot I think I'll turn it over to you for any questions you might have or members of the public might have okay let's start with um bill or Walter do you guys have any questions um I just wanted to say um I appreciated uh the information made available and um I I found a lot of it was done responsive and I I thought the wildlife Corridor was uh was an example of a a creative response to uh stakeholder concerns and those are my comments for now thanks to uh to run with what Bill said um I think this is a much better design than we saw previously um I would like somebody else's opinion which is somebody who knows more about this than I do I'm still concerned about the spring that we saw during the site and contamination of that from uh what this project is doing in the long term not the short term but the long term okay members of the commission that are in the room yeah um thanks for providing all that information um I just a couple of questions um buffer zone I'm sorry bordering vegetated Wetland um I didn't see it's little technical point but I didn't see anywhere in the application where it identified what type of resource was actually ordering I'd have to ask make a guess but I don't want to put any I don't I don't have that information because you understand the question if it's bordering vegetated white L it has to I just would for the record would like to know that resource area is I'm I'm sure I'm I know what other type would it be like an isolated Wetland or I know is bordering based on the soil type she found and the plant type um that's all I do now though I I would have to have her answer that she's the expert um I I like seeing a wildlife quor how did you arrive at 15 ft well from the Builder's perspective there's a 15 foot side yard setback for any structure for zoning so I looked at and said okay as long you know we can we can give up 15 feet it doesn't affect his ability to build on a lot and it offers a a good siiz Corridor I feel um that's if that's just basically how I looked at it it doesn't affect his ability to build on the lot and it leaves a natural area not only as a cardor but it's a buffer to the neighbor as well it's it's a corridor plus a wooden buffer to the neighbor because I look through regulations to see if they talked about Corridor because they they talk about Wildlife corridors but I couldn't find anywhere that actually in the regulations defined specifications for a wildlife corter there there were there are other Publications by various planning Commissions in the state that that recommend as wide as 200 feet um which I think saw a thousand there goes your Hell House go the neighborhood um I've also seen something as low as 50 feet uh so I don't know if that's something the commission wants to to think about a little bit more whether a wider Corridor is is necessary so there's so if I recall that's that that's coming down off of a slope so that would kind of be almost like a a bunnel less of a slope on that side but on the other side of the lot it's it's sloped uh more so there's still there's still a slope on the right hand side of the lot but last side the the other side is very steep coming down and that's where we thought we saw water breaking out I did want to note that spring I did note it it appear off the property right before uh the bvw flags I could see water breaking out that's beyond our property line so because I was looking on our lot to see if I could see any area and I did I did do a test tole right by that I call it drywall number two right off the area of where water's flowing through here um and and we didn't hit water down till about I think like four or five feet um it was more as you got further down the hill right before the BBW in surface so it's off the site that it surfaces and we want to keep our basement above that water table and on that left side of the building I should have noted that's a garage not a full Foundation we'll just have a 4 foot Frost wall um so there'll be less impact if you were putting a full basement in there there'd be more excavation and that's the part that's right uphill from the spring yeah okay and bet Tony back to your question the 15 foot Corridor we just said we heard the residents we tried to offer something um I I don't I've never offered anything like this in 25 years I think if if we were within 100 feet to the Vernal pool and we were looking for waivers from this commission uh you know there might be more talk of trying to widen that to to you know to allow uh Habitat to get there but I think 15 ft um it's a good start um this is for the the Commission in general that um under 310 CMR 10572 A6 and 2v5 um this has to do with the boundaries of the the veral pool the regulations say that the boundary of the Vernal cool habitat is that certified by the Massachusetts Division of Wildlife falls under the natural heritage and endangered species grow and by the RS it's it's not really up to the Wetland delineator to figure out where those are however if there is a conflict of opinion um there are sections that talk about methods to resolve any differences so um you know the technology in 1992 wasn't more than taking a red pen and circling it on the map um I think I think what helps in this case is that conservation restriction recorded in 2006 but there's a plan by coko and Cormier October 29th 1998 it shows the Vernal pool the buffers the bvw the buffers it's almost identical to this plan I don't know if you have that last sheet on the conservation but it shows it I can hand it over but it's page 16 of the conservation restriction if you have that yeah the LA the last page so I think if we saw a big difference between that plan and our plan I've seen there might be some more discussion on it but I think I agree though back it they just put a dot it wasn't that detailed how they certified it but um someone went through some work back in 19 1998 to develop this plan as well and we consistent and the commission at that time issued an order yeah while Chuck's looking anybody else have comments or Tony did you have more comments no that's it for now thank you that's yours I do okay Brian actually to follow up on what Tony was talking about the Wildland Corridor my question is probably as much for you guys as for you jack but so Wildlife cter is all kinds of wildlife but we talked about it originally because of the turtles so my question is would turtles be comfortable using Accord with this slope my assumption is that in the past they've gone more down the middle down the center of the valley so even if that space is available would they go there would they instinctively go lower and easier clim than actually going up the hill and I agree the left hand side is steeper than the right hand side but that's still a slope over there it's a slope that we probably wouldn't allow if it was something being put in so my question for you folks is is it a useful or or is it is one just to have it's a good question the kind of thing I'm asking as well I don't I don't know what turtles like it's a good question because I don't think anyone really has an answer to how these Turtles move across this property yeah well I think one answer is going to be that the turtles will come to a 4 foot or less retaining wall and have to turn left or right and if they flip a coin half of them will go toward the wildlife Carter and half half of them will go towards the steep slope near the driveway that's you're thinking in the perspective going uphill right what about turtles across the street coming down back they're going to come to the house presumably on either side there's a hill what would that right indicate Turtles I don't know I couldn't find anything that told me with the turtles like Hills how bigger Hill right and when they come back they're going to hit the front steps in the front wall of the house so you're G to go somewhere and have to go to the side yeah so I mean I just want to bring that up I don't know I mean I I appreciate that you put something in I just don't know if it's useful okay next question I had is um before you get off Turtles um uh since you were saying it to everybody um what what do what does the what do Commissioners think our jurisdiction is here I I thought the applicant was offering something that they're not legally required to offer if if somebody can tell me I'm missing some jurisdictional hook here that mandates this that would be helpful because otherwise I saw this as uh a good faith offer in response to stakeholder input as opposed to okay here's the section of the regs that requires this corridor and you applicant 15 fet isn't doing it for us I so I'm I'm a little at C here on what our foundation is if someone could help me so if I could answer that no I'm not saying it's in the regulations I'm basically asking whether the corridor actually achieves anything um having to do with what the conversation was last time not saying we have jurisdiction to say therefore move the car RoR move the house none of that just asking if anybody knows if will be use before we consider it a diplomatic Victory I I agree um I just want to add I do believe it isn't within our jurisdiction within 100 foot of the of the wetlands to consider Wildlife Hab what we do with it is a different question but I don't think the question is I think it's appropriate for what we're talking about heree because when you're getting into um the width of a corridor and the location of a corridor precedent matters and we are looking at a 100 foot buffer zone but are we asking and imposing conditions here that we haven't in similarly situated projects that's what I'm looking at thank you I actually have some of the questions so I I'm glad you mentioned that you Chuck on the tree because I saw that but there's actually 10 trunks that have a ribbon around them um you know why the difference is that because some of them are multileader right so this is all it's sometimes at the base of the tree you it might be I'll show like 136 inch tree but then as it comes up it might split 18 18 18 so it looks like three trees so sometimes when you Circle the different individual trunks you just would make it obvious to make the whole thing just to make the whole thing so if if it's I I I make an an interpretation if I say that looks like one tree that's split off over time I call it like 1 36 inch tree could you make the case it's three 18 inch trees I I don't know maybe and that's something we can talk about when we get in conditions but it's possible just given that because there's three significant trees going up with the loo camp and everything maybe it's appropriate to get more Replacements yeah and we don't have a problem with the planting so want to see what the commission did yeah and I I did want to let the commission know Marin was able to get on the zoom call oh and she just texted me she's in so she it's some point she could try to answer Tony's question beautiful yeah all right um I had a couple of concerns um and I read through the um Vernal pool certification paperwork submitted by Leo Kenny he made his observations in 1990 and what he saw in there was woodf frog Tad pools um and from personal experience I know that if you cut off the water source for a Vernal pool you may not have enough water left in that Vernal pool for the woodf frog tadpoles which is why I sent Chuck a letter which Moren answered but not to my satisfaction which my question was how will putting a house in the valley just uphill from the spring impact the amount of water that will be flowing downhill into that Burnal pool and um I think that just because we're outside the 100 foot doesn't mean that we can ignore the fact that the Vernal pool needs its water supply um so I would like to hear from a hydrologist or someone who can convince me that the water flowing from forestry toward the Vernal pool will continue to flow even after this house was built and I feel a little better that you said there's only going to be a 4ot frost wall under the garage but if there were somebody with the expertise to actually figure out the source of that spring and convince me that building this house is not going to decrease the water supply for the ver pool I would feel much better about approving this project um so that's one thing I also was interested to read the details of the conservation restriction um section 2 B3 talks about not allowing um junk and debris and things like that in the cons conservation restriction area and when I was out there on a site visit with Tony I noticed quite a bit of junk um down hill south of the rural pool so um it might be that the YMCA needs to do a little cleaning up of the debris that has accumulated it's not yard waste debris it's furniture and floor mats and things like that that are behind the big pile of rock big outcropping of rock there um section 2 B5 in the conservation restriction talks about activities detrimental to the water um and a lot of language about that and that's one thing I'm concerned the conservation restriction only applies to the part of the land that you're not actually talking about but if this house is going to be detrimental to the water I'm concerned about that and so you know that's a section that I'm reading that I'm concerned about and then not to interrupt you but when when you say the water are you talking about like water quality um well if you have the conservation restriction in front of you you can read section 2 B5 it's got a water flow storm water a bunch of things like that okay section 2v5 and section 2 C5 specifically talks about flow of storm water so um those are all in the conservation restriction um for that property that includes the bordering vegetated Wetland and the ver pool um so clearly they were concerned when they wrote that conservation restriction to make sure that the Vernal pool had enough water to continue to be a veral pool um um so um those were my comments I sent a couple of other questions to Chuck one of them was the question about what happens when the turtles hit the wall um and another question that I had which I don't think I have an answer for yet um just over the property boundary there's another 10 foot rway right I don't know what that 10- foot rideway is for but if that is actually also undisturbed natural vegetation which I think it might be that actually gives you 25 fet of wildlife Corridor because that 10 foot might add to your 15 feet um but um I was as concerned as somebody else here is 15 ft really wide enough as a wildlife quor so does anybody know what that right of way is for is it a road potentially or is it a sewer line not sure I mean it's off our property so we don't control it it's the the neighbor owns it that there rights over and I don't know what the where we can't control it I didn't do too much homework into it we we we don't have any control over it Chuck did you get any information my question you know I didn't and the the reason why is is very similar to what Jack just said it's it's off our property we're not under control of what happens on that through this application and uh I can follow up I can follow up with the engineering department but I'm not sure usually these are maintenance right ways it's it's not a right away it's an EAS right it says 10 foot wide right of way here that's all I know what I'm curious um next to the wildlife Corridor on the property of 126 forestry I mean the fact that it's undeveloped at this moment is a good thing more importantly we're keeping up a corridor that seems to be used testimony that we got at our last meeting um I know the turtles are big topic of conversation but it's just the half that we're supposed to be protecting the access Corridor is a good thing there are people out there that can tell us if 15 foot wide is enough or not but Jack is there a barrier that's going to be installed uh on this property beyond the 15 foot Wildlife Corridor like a fence or a St wall or is it going to be left open it's just the C CED a wildlife Corridor that has I think we thought of leaving it open or plant like a natural um for some Arbor vies or something to so to the turtles it doesn't have any restrictions yeah go anywhere they want right and as a deer Corridor it will work just fine they'll they'll go 15 foot wide yeah so this isn't the only you know you know that right we're looking focusing on this house but there's other hous is these animals and turtles can kind of wander up through so I think that um it's great that this is open uh I don't know about the Restriction Turtle wants to turn left or right I mean that's a great question but I think there's no impediment if they turn either way yeah depends on what happens to the hillside next to 106 Forest Street well yeah so as soon as they encounter something that they can't you know manage that terrain they'll just keep keep moving on laterally until they can you know move up so these questions could be answered we could get a tural expert here and and you could but um again it's I I think if the habitat's protected and the yach opportunity to access that habitat is available I think we're covered yeah and certainly the Vernal pool organisms that were identified which were wood frogs probably don't need that Wildlife Corridor because they're in that 100 foot buffer around the yeah so so I know you know maybe Brian meant when he said we was looking at the corridors F all pools one of them i' I've heard that they could go as far as a thousand feet away but they're likely to be in and around that area there's more opportunity for them to be out of the wet area and spend any other time than those six weeks somewhere else and then come down to the pool so long as it's still uh viable they'll have an opportunity to uh reproduce so getting back to what questions are more important I think you know the water course and changing the water course and is there any other spot that that water comes in you know is it groundwater is it a spring and is it the only uh is it the only opportunity for that uh pool to be fed that that might be something that you would want to ask for you know investigation on uh since I get the floor I'm GNA ask one question I don't want to be cut off from our uh ver from our conservation restriction our um does the Conservation Commission have an opportunity to uh just we're supposed to review our our property once a year is there is there something that can be worked out where we could walk down this uh Wildlife Corridor you know just to do an inspection uh once a year to Tom's the developer for the project would you be open to that yeah I don't think that's so I'm sure other new people moving in would be welcome to consideration that for sure sure and I didn't read it thoroughly but there might be something in there I mean it might come from the from the uh ynca side so then this wouldn't be needed but you know I think section four is about access okay and section four includes access of up to 30 supervised human beings so clearly they're thinking a class from coolage going out to check out the Vernal pool and they say up to 30 but it also the access is coming from it doesn't say it just says allow access onto this property so since the IMC has granted it I would think unless it's obstructed then they could we could get in from that side from the cool Ag and one yeah okay um and do you have a hand up yeah thank you um thanks for all the new information fun reading um but um I am some some concerns about just the impact that this will have just dting a lot of the things that have been put on the table the hydraulic regime the water that's there the soil um and the wildlife um I did like the conservation restriction I know it doesn't apply to this site specifically but it's the site right next to it and a I agree where it says it's predominantly a natural Scenic undeveloped condition um and you know they they wanted to try to preserve it I know this part's developable so uh but I think a lot of the same kind of characteristics of it providing some opic Scenic natural condition uh is important to Tona writing's unique character I do think it's part of unique and you don't have a lot of sites like this left so um like where bell says we don't see a lot of projects like this obviously it happens at least not in the past two and a half years where we have a undeveloped site being proposed uh to have a new construction um so I am just worried about um how much impact the propos will have um so um I think my big question is because I can't get a good feel of it and I'm not even sure where the retaining wall is but I would like to see like a plan view uh showing how much fill just looking like where what areas of the plan site plan are going to be filled in so I get better sense of how the Contours are going to work um because it looks pretty dramatic right now but I could be reading it wrong um and then from my own understanding I you gave us the site section of the of the wall but I am really worried about the whole connection from forest down back to the BBW so I would like to see a cross-section of the site from forest down to the the both the proposed and the existing because I'm not there's no formula like for 15 foot I just I'm just worried about the amount of impact this is going to have on on that um existing land and the way I see it right now is it's it's going to be a lot but I do think we can find something that could be a little bit more low impact sight sensitive this looks a little bit more this is the type of house I built and I'm I'm going to put it here well I think just just to push back a little bit on that Chuck can you pull up the plan one more time that was a little hard you found responsive but I I'm just a little bit worried about how I see where you're coming from and I just I just wanted to point out that the 100 foot BBW buffer only extends about halfway into this lot yeah it's entirely the house it's entirely the house and but what we've done and we have nine trees that a six inches or grade are coming down as far this project I tried to answer the question with the with the with the um underground spring the the garage is at elevation 110 so that means the bottom of the footing for that garage elevation 106 that's the grade at the back leftand corner of the garage okay so the water's below that as you go off the back of the set it's at elevation 104 and then it drops even more as we get to the wet so that water will continue to flow as it always has there's going to be no pudding or wall to block that water um the nine trees were shown to be taken down within the 100 foot buffer earlier policy we putting back trees and shrubs Marthur brought up that in the conservation restriction area there should be no activities conducted that are detrimental to drainage flood control water conservation water quality erosion control soil conservation plants or wildlife habitat that's for activities within the conservation restriction area we outside of it yet we're still holding to those values for the drainage we're putting in drainage for the driveway we're providing pre-treatment we're recharging water for the for the roof we're collecting runoff we're putting it back into the ground it won't be running off the site uh so we that's that's flood control what um we're reusing water we're recharging it's water conservation water quality we're providing pre-treatment of the driveway runoff so it'll be clean water erosion control the site will be stabilized where're showing siltation could just like in other projects we're outside we're way outside the 100 foot Vernal pool buffer and then when we're providing plants and for wildlife habitat I think we've made an effort that I I've never proposed and I I don't think it's happened too often that you've seen anyone offer a wildlife card or especially on a vacant lot um it is a buildable lot and we're trying to we're going through the process and I think we've we've really taken some big steps and I credit the developer he's like we heard what the neighbor said we're trying to offer some items as a compromise even though that Wildlife Corridor a lot of it's outside the 100 foot buffer we don't have to Extended all the way to far street but we did knowing it's not jurisdictional so I agree most of the lws you see in reading now are knockdown homes people are building new homes you don't see too many vacant Lots uh but it it is a buildable lot that's why the YMCA YMCA is selling it um we've identified all the resource areas we're trying to protect them as much as we can I think we have a good design and we try as far as the fil we worked with the site it's a walk out basement um you know there is some weird topography on this site but we're not bringing that much film I can I can provide that information but it's a walk out um I think I think we're I think we're doing a good J job on it so maybe you're I think maybe I need some just more drawings and I'm not understanding what you're proposing but that's but even like the wall in back it's it's it's a landscape wall the highest points four feet most of the walls at two feet but is that exactly at the 35 foot line yes because that's that's concerning to me um that's a creates a big disconnect between our buffer zone and the proposal it does know it's formulaic yes you have your 35 foot but I think that wall along the entire back property um is concerning to me yeah but in some and sometimes I go into that walls viewed as a benefit then the future owner isn't creeping and so like in North Andover they make me put in a a two foot high it's um wall at at buffer zones like that just so people don't move in and then start extending their lawns and doing different things so that's going to be a permanent demarcation it's not going to change but at the amount of alteration you're doing to the land I mean that affects the solar conditions that have been there for hundreds of years a hydraulic regime which we're concerned about all of the in I mean it's just the whole Ecology of that patch um I'm I'm just saying I'm concerned with the way it's being proposed I I understand it's not going to be a wooded lot anymore just a bacon wooded lot and and trying to mitigate for that for trees we're taking down I said we're planting trees um for impervious areas we're providing drainage so in areas we can mitigate we've tried to mitigate well it's the fil so I would like to see a cross in the yeah are you all set okay um we have Bill and Walter um both have their hands up how about Bill first and then Walter um yeah so uh thank you for uh for your responses and so forth um you know the uh select board um likes to bring a variety of perspectives to its commissions and um I'm I'm very concerned about this idea that because someone is building on a buildable lot it's it's a concern because it's no longer a natural lot that's what I'm hearing and uh I find that very concerning my perspective as an attorney who both is interested in conservation and Environmental Protection but also property rights um so I hope this interactive process goes well but if it doesn't I encourage the applicant to look very closely at uh the state regulations and local regulations I think you are doing a lot of extraordinary things here as for the 35 foot no build Zone and a retaining wall it's not just in other towns that you mentioned it's it's within reading itself that we see this kind of configuration so just wanted to give my alternative perspective that I'm very concerned about what I see as almost a disregard for the right to someone to build on a buildable lot in ready thank okay um Andrew has a comment and then we'll go to Walter and since that was directed be bill I am saying how I do not like the product as it is proposed I am coming from an architecture background I know how this stuff works um I am cons from a concern from ecology and I am saying that the way it is proposed does not meet my expectations with my understanding of the wetman act I don't want to talk about it any further but I think your comment is US overstepping what I'm saying my comment was not to you Mr drion it was to the applicant thank you yes thank you okay Walter uh I'm going to venture into the regs for a second I'm looking at uh 10.61 B referring to wildlife habitat I don't know if this is a wildlife habitat but it does refer to hiring an expert uh to determine that because 1062 C talks about migrating and overwintering uh which is what we're talking about here so I don't don't know it's if it's applicable but perhaps the expert could handle it uh from Mass wildlife thank you Walter good suggestion I had a question Jack this osed house it's GNA have perimeter drains down low in the foundation y um I'm assuming they go all around Y and they're going to collect water that would go in towards the front of the house and then on the side too where do they discharge usually they just did they either try to Daylight it or they try to put it into its own like area of crush T but so anything collected from the sides the front at that lower level that Foundation kind of footing level at the footing yeah would be collected and discharged somewhere but you don't know where that is on this plant is that I don't show don't show a location you usually when they're doing it they you're right it goes right at the footing location it's perforated pipe with crushed stone if you can daylight it you try to Daylight it if not um I've seen guys just dig out big air they dig out an area and put in crush Stone and daylight it and put it into the crush Stone yeah it's interesting because I'm I'm hearing a lot about what's going to happen at this water course and then that's going to collect some part of whatever's happening out there and maybe if we could direct those pipes around the 35 foot area you know around the wall and have them discharg in that point I don't know the commission could think about that this just another source that we would capture and release kind of where it was going anyways that's a good suggestion because the the perimeter drain would be down around elevation 106 um and you could you could pipe it and put it a section right through that wall because on the back side of that wall we're coming on at like 105 106 so it could it could put some water out there if you wanted to and I'm pretty sure there are members of the public here that want to speak but I wanted to make one more comment of my own before I open up to the public um and I'm noticing that you have the um minimum setback line drawn all four sides of the building and you've got it pretty close to the minimum setback at the back and at the sides but quite a ways back from the minimum set back in the front and I wonder whether my concerns about hydrology might be less if the front yard was smaller and the backyard was bigger and the whole house was just a little closer to the street um is there a reason why you located the house in the particular spot you did well no I mean it's subjective there's no science to it um the idea with this um we wanted to you know far as streets busier than you think especially in school time um and just to give some separation between the street and the front of the house um could it be moved forward yes it could be um but it it was more to work with the lot it works with our walkout basement the further I move it forward the more I'd have to pick up the house the more fill I probably need in the backyard so it's a balancing act as far as Aesthetics environmental everything I'm just thinking this is the kind of place where it would be hard for us to later approve a um swimming pool in the backyard if you've put it that close to the back of the property um you know there there's not a lot of space for you know all those things people come and ask us if they can add a shed a swimming pool extra garage all all the things people come and ask to put in their backyards there's they haven't got a whole lot of room to work with there um which I think I would hope we wouldn't to prove anything more than what's already been built I think it would be hard that we're going to have a we're going to have two dry wells in the back from zoning you need so much distance off for a pool you have to be so many feet I think 10 feet off the house it be hard to fit anything in there to go through this process again not that it couldn't happen yeah but it it would be limited to what you could do back there okay because Dy the wells not filtration areas would but I do want to remind the commission that we are outside the 35 foot area and a shed although it seems like to be pretty tight you know could be you know I can see that that request coming in being outside the 35 foot area MAA they um they've certainly limited the amount of space in the back to 26 feet by the width of the property there's also a wildli cool and uh other things I mean 26 feet is is not a lot there is a little bit of room back there but if they added a I think most of the activity would happen up front the way it's laid out and making it quieter and less active in the back and that might be something to make about as far as you know any kind of Critters you want to protect no activity they feel more and just so the commission knows the back corner of that garage is about 60 feet away from the weapon line when you say no activity you mean like people hanging out in their yard yeah of activity yeah that kind of okay I was trying to figure out um and just another question Jack in the original plan you had the um infiltration chamber much closer to the house house and in this plan you've moved it closer to the 35 foot line is there a reason for moving it back more yeah um the idea you you want to keep a a drainage structure at least 10 feet away from a foundation you don't want to introduce water back into the foundation so I I said Okay I I have the ability to move and stay outside the 35 and give some distance to the basement so just from an engineering design it it it makes sense to try to keep it as far away from the found as you can you don't want to put water back into the foundation okay fair enough all right um I would like to open it up to public comment and I'd like to remind the public that I'm trying to limit public comment to three minutes per person um if there are any people in the room or on Zoom you can raise your hand if you're on Zoom go to the reactions function at the bottom and there's a raiseed hand button if if you're in the room you can raise your own hand T Finn has his hand raised okay T fin will start with you you can unmute yourself that better yes Tom Finn 126 Forest Street I have a question and I the numbers is different on the plans that you showing I'm looking at the old plan um the as far as the Vernal pool goes from 13A and 14a is right in the area of where that spring is if I that's right that's true the distance from there to where you where the veral pool is marked out yeah 13A and 14a now if you go all the way down towards the back towards the Vernal pool which is vp8 and vp9 and if there's water running between running down that area doesn't that make that all one continuous Vernal pool you might think so but what was certified is the area that's vp8 and V dp9 and the water has to be deep enough for the Wildlife to actually be able to use it so maybe the Wetland further north anyone has anyone looked from 9A and 19a or in that area to see if there's water in there which I believe there is there is so that would be running there would be an an answer to your spring that the waterers running down and feeding that Vernal pool right and that's the spring I want to protect right that's the spring you want to protect but if that's all part of the veral pool now the Vernal pool comes all the way up to 13A and 14a now doesn't the 100 foot buffer zone start at 14a or whatever it is at 13 and 14a I don't think 100 foot buffer zone from vp8 vp9 but what about all the water in between there and that spring yeah you want to answer that Chuck so so only to I don't have the information in front of me but there was a correction and a response by natural heritage and we would have to compare it to this map because Tony's letting us know commissioner Tony Rik is letting us know that it's the natural heritage that certifies this area so if what we're seeing is correct as per certified by the state then VP 8910 s six all that is the Vernal pool um the opportunity to certify another Vernal pool you know had existed but no one's out there doing it so this is the pool but what happens if now that that water is now making its way from that spring is now making its way down into that veral pool does that make that path that the spring is going down into the Vernal pool make it all one of the the Vernal pool all one you know make that all one from the say the spring head all the way down back to the Vernal pool it's all one consider continuous water body but to be a Vernal pool you have to have a minimum depth for a minimum number of weeks per year but you that wouldn't necessarily qualify but you would have but you would have it what I'm saying is if line 9A joined with line vp8 and with in vp9 and 19a jointed now that's one stretch all the way from the spring all the way down that would be uh one big pool of water now wasn't that one big Journal pool so Tom uh Tom Tom yet I uh I understand what you're saying and it's uh it's it makes sense and you know what what's the separation all about it's just like one big water supply but I want you to know that to have a water body that's larger and to have inside of that an area that was defined as a Vernal pool is not unique here in Reading commission has seen this recently on Main Street where a certified Vernal pool was um or Vernal pool was noted in a wetland report that was smaller than the extent of the bordering vegetated Wetland but um before you speak again uh I know that Moren Harold is here and she was the Wetland scientist and the consultant for the Wetland information and maybe she can add a little more clarity to what's going on between 19a and dp9 so hold on one second let see if I can get her wait a minute I have one other question and then we can go right on to that and it's a kind of a quick question sure uh if you back up to the last meeting if you remember the person up on was it lla Lane one of the things that you people brought up was about yard waste being thrown over the fence and into the conservation area you're going to have the same issue here over that wall if you look at that wall that's just another thing to look at well that's why it was important for the Conservation Commission to have access to this um conservation restriction ition because those encroachment like that and yard waste are something that we need to Monitor and if we're not out there once a year making sure that these things don't happen then we almost lose uh you know lose the opportunity and uh and and well that's the reason why we would like to have that access Tom if you're if you're finished now I know that has turned her video on and maybe we have some questions hi Mar can you just introduce yourself for the record hi Morin Harold noris environmental services so to to address Tom's question the area UPG gradient of the Vernal pool Flags um as what's been discussed with the commission um there's actually a channel there with flow so there's actually a gradient that flows down to the Vernal pool Flags where the vp8 and the vp9 is that is the area where it's holding water so for something to be considered a veral pool it has to hold water for a minimum of two months and that allows the amphibians to go through the metamorphosis process if it doesn't hold water for a minimum of two months then that process can't happen um so the area upgrading of it there's a slope to it there's a stream running and it just doesn't hold the water so it can't be classified as a ver can I it's classified as a wetland and it's flagged as a wetland and shown on the plane all right Meen but what who's monitoring it who monitored that for two months to see if it was it was wet for two months well what's interesting is that this has been certified um I may get the dates wrong but it was in the 90s I want to say 1992 it was initially certified and then it was looked at again oh my gosh in 98 I left my paperwork in the one of those times it it probably was because it was back around that time that the YMCA wanted to put a road down through that I think that might have been right around the time so we're not we're not arguing or we're not trying to say this certified brunal pool doesn't exist um I flagged you know so so the point of flagging it is to show it on the plan and and where it's located so we're acknowledging that it's here within the conservation restruction um Tom I think she has answered your questions and I have one more question for you and that is you are the owner of the property that has the 10 foot right of way on it do you have any idea what that 10- foot right of way is for yeah for the cows that used to walk down that path that RightWay to go down into BR Meadow and I was told that by one of my son's friends his grandparents or his great his great grandparents used to own the the Brit Meadow and that was all a farm and up in this area and he told me it was a right away for the cows to go down now that RightWay stops at the end of my property moves o if I'm not mistaken I haven't got the map in front of me um moves over to the right and then continues down across the back of the YMCA's property out to bridge Meadow so that means that you are not allowed to put any structures on that right of way is that correct correct okay and I've been here I've been here for 43 years and I've never had any reason to okay all right thank you very much I want to see if there's anybody else with questions or comments from the public anybody hands raised no okay I did have a question that I posted Jack before that I'd like to ask good Moren you flagged the BBW um what resource I I didn't see it written in the application at all but Ju Just to be thorough what resource area does that Wetland border is that bordering isolated land subject to flooding oh I'm sorry go ahead no go ahead please answer no so it's a bordering vegetated Wetland is stream systems within the Wetland so that's what characterized it as watering vegetated wetland and in fact downg gradient of the Vernal pool is actually a stream that flows out of that Vernal pool as well and continues throughout the conservation restriction so that's BBW to land underwater no it no it's just bordering vegetated well so that's the resource area right I I always thought that in order to call it bordering vegetated Wetland it had to border something yes in this case it borders an intimate and stream it needs to border a stream a pond a lake an estuary um any of those types of characteristics it needs to border on or touch that's what bordering means within the regulations so so it's bordering an intermittent stream correct thank you right all right um do we have any more questions for the hearing tonight or can we move forward in some way you you're all set Chuck I'm still hoping for uh hydrology Geo geoh hydrologist to confirm what Jack has said but um you know I could easily be out voted Madam chair may I make a suggestion um one thought that I had was Jack could certainly provide just like a watershed analysis of this area um to show where the existing water goes um from the site being undeveloped to where the sites proposed to be developed that may be an alternative that may work for the commission okay um I guess my fear is the proof is really in the pudding we won't know whether or not building this house makes the Vernal pool uninhabitable uninhabitable by wood frog until we have built the house and we find out to our dismay that there are no longer wood frogs so um that's the reason I'm asking these questions but Walter has his hand up yeah I go back to uh saying as a condition for approval would be somebody from Mass wildlife coming out and commenting on the migration of turtles and other amphibians may I address that sure so one thing that when we file the notice of intent in the paperwork we check um natural heritage estimated priority habitat area none of this area is shown within priority or estimated habitat for rear threatened or special concerned species because if it was it would be outlined and shown within some sort of priority habitat now I know the neighbors have commented on seeing Turtles doesn't surprise me um we have a fairly vast Wetland system here we also have a large Wetland system on the other side of Forestry um so it doesn't surprise me that there's some turtle sighting out on the site we do know that we don't have any habitat for IND dangered threatened or special concern or that those turtles have not been identified within this area of Forestry because if they were identified in and around forestry this area would have been designated as habitat so you know the fact that maybe we a painted turtle was seen or a snapping turtle those are very common turtles in Massachusetts um and another thought I had on the Vernal pool and I understand the sensitivity and the concern about the Vernal pool um it is a fairly shallow Vernal pool um I've seen much higher quality vernal pools throughout Massachusetts um and and it's just something to keep in mind when I went out there I was looking for egg masses amphibians and I fairy shrimp within this Vernal pool I did not see any it doesn't mean that it's not protected because it is um but I don't classify this as a high quality Vernal pool okay thank you do we have a motion of some sort Walter has his hand oh Walter yeah I'm looking at the masg website uh and I'll quote all but three species oops sorry all but three species of turtles in Massachusetts the Eastern painted turtle stink pot and common snapping turtle are protected those are common Turtles they're not listed as threatens endangered or special concerned a painted turtle is not an endangered turtle in Mass that's what yeah that's what this says yes oh okay those are the ones who that are um are not protected but every other turtle is so I don't know what turtles we have here I I apologize it's late I misunderstood you okay all right I don't know what to do with the turtles I am worried about about the hydrology um I think maybe this Vernal pool is being a victim of development maybe it was higher quality at one point in time in the 90s and perhaps it is SH now and I think this project is concerning but I don't know who we bring in to help us assess that I we have Morin and she's telling us it's gonna be okay so and Morin suggested that Jack could do a Water Analysis before and after I can show how water flows in the existing condition and how it's going to flow after I think I think one of the important things is this garage being above grade in a lot of spots so the way that water flows under the ground now it's going to continue to flow into the ground we're not blocking it with any sort of concrete foundation or anything like that so the water flow will still stay the same through that area as long as the fill isn't compacted in the for ility and the paracity don't change right right right all right so we have some needs for the next meeting and maybe we're gonna get the applicant to agree to continue this I'm just go through the list we wanted pral Watershed analysis Jack um details on Contours Andy and um there was something about the retaining W I can't read what were the details on Contours Andy I wanted to know map of the oh the fill Contours Contours that's how he interpreted it yeah yeah pH fill in missing something I just wanted to confirm that the retaining wall at the end of this project we flush with the top of grade as it shows in the detail I think if any Turtle got onto into the yard they walk to the retaining wall they could at least fall off you know they would also it was raised above it it would go to the left or right again so anyways um and then I just wanted to know and I was trying to look for it might have missed it but do you have test pist data for the infiltration system yeah is that do we have it or do you have it should be on sheet too on there so I call I call out the um I see drainage not is that it I keep going um P other way okay in the upper right there's the two tesol we duck so this is actually good um we have top soil subsoil and then the the Virgin soil the native soil in this site is a a sand it was a medium core sand with gravel so that helps show that as water flows you don't have restricted layers this isn't like an a site that was like a compact til till glacial till it's U was more of a gravity stand so water's going to work its way through and like I said the garage is above the existing grade so if there is if there is a spring which it looks like on the other side of our property line water does surface but it's three to four feet lower than our sight it's going to continue to move perimeter drain uh Daylights through the retaining wall somehow if the commission wants it I can show that is that something the commission wants think that would make sense that takes the water where we're trying to get it which is toward the Vernal pool that's all I have if there's anything else uh let usbody have anything else you wanted for next time and also to say that Moren sent me some information on April 23rd 2024 and I did not send that to the commission because it was well pasted the DAT that we allow additional material so that'll also be provided it was her analysis on the veral pool this is just me I would love to see plan that has less inous um an alternative that shows less impact to the especially the area that's within our jurisdiction the the large driveway in that house um there was I don't want to design it for you right so that's up to you how you figure it out I know you know my concerns but there was the suggestion by Martha to try to move it closer to the street I would be curious to see some Alternatives they could find maybe a less impact I might I mean I've done that with riverfront we show Alternatives in this type of case it's not a requirement I haven't but we we'll talk about it okay thank you motion to continue agree are you g to are you okay to continue and which meeting do you want to continue the first one in May or the second one in May or whenever 8 to the 22nd I know I have another meeting in two weeks in North Handover um why don't we continue to your next meeting I may not be able to attend that meeting but we'll see what we can do so you want to go for the first May meeting the first May meeting May May I have a motion for that so Brian I make a motion to continue Z4 stre to make second Walter toin in favor Bill m i in favor Tony woodus in favor in favor want some more in favor okay five in favor one abstaining no against Brian moved Andy seconded and uh we'll continue to May 8 thank you very much thank you yeah thanks yeah all right um okay thank you all for your patience Chuck has suggested we um adjust the agenda a little bit and go to the certificate certificate of compliance hearings and the first one is 123 l so presentation this is just we had a request for a certificate of compliance for 123 L Lane there's there are three lows for lla Lane the commission out did a site visit does anyone wanna speak about I just wanted to you know that's not right you're moving us forward okay Brian you were there talk to I'll talk to it briefly um got there spoke with the homeowner um walked around the property the only issues at all and I think they minor is there was some uh discarded plants and other yard waste over the wall additionally on either end of the wall there was some sign of erosion um about equal in either case the one uh on the left hand side if you're facing the house so it comes from underneath the deck that it works its way through the mulch around the small stone in there and then down next to the wall the other side it ran along the wall and then it roded down um in the right hand side there was not any significant sediment at the bottom on the left hand side there was a pile of sediment at the bottom which probably makes it more of an issue so uh from my perspective if something could be done to stabilize those to me that would be sufficient um we didn't see anything else negative at all yeah I was there with Brian and Martha um saying there's the large retain wall at the back everything looks clean uh there was some debris behind the retaining walls and being but I was the one thing I wasn't sure maybe you could help check is where the wetlands are supposed to be um is that retaining wall like the 35 foot because it's pretty flat behind there is definitely a stand of red maple but it didn't look like any other indicators it's Wetland right behind there so I wasn't I know there's a stream further back yeah so this is a subdivision order of conditions and we're giving partial appr you know partial ific of compliance here just for this lot and so some lot within that yeah had the Wetland and it was part of the overall order of conditions so that would be off the map at the bottom where we approved a swimming pool recently and the Wetland drain is behind there the wet is all around that and there's actually two properties about six to the right with actually sorry let me just stop everything and then go back there's not much more okay there's no yeah but down near deep h a FN D on the culdesac that houseold over there on the bottom left of the culdesac right if you go behind it there's that drainage channel that leads out to the Wetland and the street and the river um okay so um B bill has his hand up Bill yep I um I visited the site as well and uh having seen it before I was very disappointed to see um what I thought was a large potted plant for example that had been dumped over the wall I'm not inclined to vote in favor of a certificate of compliance until that's cleaned up because I found it ironic that when we walked there before and we talked with the owner about let's not have fill back here and so forth now we're being asked for a certificate of compliance and we see a large Plant dumped you know with the base the stem the branches and so on and so forth I think that's inconsistent with us saying you're good to go so that's my view yes as a yeah um just just are you the applicant yeah okay um before I give you a chance is there anybody else on the commission who needed to talk okay introduce yourself Kevin colon okay that plant material is uh you know house plant or some cuttings from the lawn or something that's very simple to take care of and remedy um as far as the erosion on that one end of the wall that Wall's been there for 25 years that that small bit of erosion is result of 25 years so I don't think it's significant structural problem to the wall of any kind that's what you're inlying no that the walls going can I answer that yes you may answer that uh no our perview is not the structural Integrity of the wall it's more fill going into the wetlands so when you have erosion washing down sediment and what have you if you have lot of it it begins to fill wets yes J my name is Steve stepinsky I think the erosion that you might be talking about is on the adjacent lwi it's with the tailings are the tailings and the mou the tailings are right behind the house and the path that comes from under the deck I know I know what you're talking about but what about the other end ofall I guess what I would say is that that area where the wall is actually located is outside of the 100 foot buffer from the wetlands that are on Town GIS maps so we're totally outside of 100 foot buffer with the activity the woods itself uh there's no dumping within the you know inside of the woods it's right over the wall that you're talking about I think that's outside the Wetland buffer there not even it's not even GE fictional so the fact that this lot was included in the auto conditions is because the lot itself was within 100 feet of the weapons but there was no activity constructed within 100 feet of the weapons so we're requesting a partial certificate of compliance to the order and even though a lot is within 100 ft of the wetlands there's been no activity whatsoever within 100t of the wetlands and if you move that plan more to the right you'll see the Wetland line the Wetland line is off the site so so your Wetland line is off the site that's Wetland line is off the site it's you're you're outside the jurisdictional area of the commission if they had built for example to the Western most flood plane uh property line then there would be jurisdiction but we're requesting a a partial certificate for activity that's outside the the buffer zone even okay so that dashed line is the flood plane plane corre and where are you saying the Wetland line was compared to the flood boundary you look at my plan you'll see the weap line is off the site it's to the left if you look for my look at the property line look at my North arrow on that drawing you'll see that line to the west of the of the north Arrow even Jazz okay that line that that line that you see on the screen right now is the property line the the wetlands are to the left of that property line one's AR even on the site except for at the bottom of the of the W they just encroach a corner you don't even see the wetlands line on this drawing that's on the screen in front of you so that that FL plane line that's the 100 foot sorry the 100e flood plane that's the to of running flood plane District boundary which is not even the FEMA flood plane the FEMA flood plane doesn't even extend to this slot but the town flood plane District boundary which was established by the town extends onto the lot but there's no dumping within that there been his plants are right over the wall yeah you can see on that on the gis the you have the dock area then you have the not so dark area the wet line you can see it's like a beat I just I'll get up change stretch my legs this is this is the wetlands line okay right here so the house is 121 ft away and the wall is roughly 25 ft behind the house and so you're you're you're outside that wall is outside the jurisdictional area or right on the Fring of it so if they so my point is that if they right so my my point is that if they built through the property line to you know 30 ft off the re setback which is site development then they would be you'd be within the buffer zone of the commission but this is the wellons are so far from the property and the activity that was undertaken for the site development is so far away from the wetlands that it's it should be released just because it's not even in the buffer zone if nothing else and you can see the blue line at the bottom that must be the stream of the drainage Channel we were talking about right yeah and that is off the site all right all right sounds to me like the plants that were dumped over the wall are outside our jurisdiction right technical I think it was within our jurisdiction within a couple of feet It's 121 ft away I don't want to be stickler I mean technically it would be within the 100 feet right but I'm saying it in in it's in it's plant material which is organic it's not like it's j or anything that's going to of the wall the other side of the wall have access what's up the other can you get around it there's a stair is any just like other than organic material there can you just agree to break it out sure okay SC it up with a no break it out if it's organic spread it out do that too you walk around the edge and a pitch for and PCH it up I didn't see it it's like a potted plant so I wouldn't breake it out I would it back up and all right take it to the went there there was leaves that had gone over the spongy we talked about that in the meeting some number of months ago I think that's what bill was referring to um but you're right I measured 19 well it seems like it's it's outside the conation jurisdiction seems to be the case this is a good resolution which is what pick it up and just get it out of there just agree to do that fine okay and so therefore the little bits of erosion at each end of the wall are also more than 100 feet from the Wetland so we don't really need to worry about those either unless well usually well you know that's more likely than unlikely to alter resource area we would have something to discuss but I know Tony wants to um yeah it was my very minor and it's fairly flat odds of that pile migrating out there unlikely okay all right so um that discussion being over and the homeowner agreeing to remove the um most recently um dropped over the edge plants can I have a motion for all three certificates of compliance at once can we do that way you if you tonight if you just list them out do you know that you know them okay thank you they are 270-1772 196 and 1987 D12 and we have a motion for those three that I just listed to give them the certificate of compliance for all three of them this is Brian I'll make a motion to issue was typic compliance for the second Walter talet abstains bill mck in favor Andrew D in favor um can I vote at the end sure okay V in favor Martha Mo in favor so it's passed one two three four okay four in favor all right I I will abstain because I didn't see the site Iain okay so we have two extensions wal and Tony four in favor and no against okay thank you coming okay the next one is 52 onest drive that's a certificate of compliance request as well uh Caitlyn white is uh here she could unmute and introduce herself but again this is a certificate of compliance we can just start out at the site visit level hello hi all right welcome so some of us did a site visit does anybody want to talk about what we saw there sure we visited there's a a pool that I believe is existing in the backyard which is now surrounded by new vinyl fence and I think a new cting area I think all the um parts that we are interested in for the most part although there were a lot of plantings inside there they were um contained from any Wildlife so they seem to be healthy but outside there there was um some new plantings and they're marked by three concrete 25 foot markers there's there was existing um erosion control most of it which was still in place some of it um looking out towards the Wetland the left side had been moved there were W some wood Stakes with purple flags that I think denoted the 35 foot line um and then there's a rock wall on the ground that seem to roughly delineate the line and there was some plantings in there that uh the trees that seem like they're doing all right but the smaller shrubber the blueberries and such um were not looking quite as happy um but there was some ground cover that was being developed but I think a question that came up um on the site is uh we are we looking for survivability was that part of the OC it was not part of the order of and then we didn't know this may also but not in the order but the fence does come to the ground there is no space between the the bottom of the fence and yeah I mentioned that to uh aen White and she said she would bring that question to the applicant and see if it was uh you know an opport for them to look up couple of panels maybe Kaitlyn has some more information about that before I go there there is a very large be sign out front we did meet with the homeowner who I think that is one of her big concerns cannot be removed I don't know how the poers that be but it certainly seems large is there a picture I did take a picture it's about as big as one of these plants it's it's an enormous D and then while we were there were wondering if Road Patrol can be re not it's done his job yes and just one more thing while we were there we did take a look at the plantings inside and Andy and I both noticed that there was a lot of boxwood hedge and that triggered me to say wait a minute I thought the boxwood hedge was on the original planting plan and I was surprised to see boxwood and wanted to follow up on what was actually planted compared to what was approved and that's why I have a thousand plans in front of me so Caitlyn do you have information for any of these questions we've brought up sure um in regards I'll start with the fence says that's okay first um I had the client take pictures and there is a little Gap underneath the fence um it's not I think you guys had requested four inches correct uh We've agreed to less than that uh three and a half to four is usually what we ask for um that's not in the permit right the order of conditions that no okay um somehow we missed that in the writing that up it doesn't specify a height above the ground I looked so so if I could prove that they had about two to three inches underneath because there is a gap below the fence well that suffice for you guys yeah did you yeah I was also wondering when you said there's no Gap was it FL it's not standard to install the fence out um the well I didn't get down on my knees and stick my fingers under but you couldn't see daylight through now it may just be the grass was tall enough that it blocked access there was a gap under the gate where we entered from the street okay um but so and if it wasn't in the order of conditions it doesn't really matter so yeah I think we'll just accept that we missed that one okay I appreciate that yeah um so do you know that bill has oh bill has his hand up oh sorry um yeah I uh just from my visit um and I I did meet the uh owner I I think this was already raised uh Andy may have raced it but I was wondering about the mulch socks as well I mean they're still all over the place and I was wondering you know what what's to become of them uh so just adding that thanks yeah so just for the commission's own edification we you know I've got requests to remove those uh not from this site and then you do a site visit and everything's grown around it you say yeah but it's typically it happens when we give out the or uh the certificate of compliance so we're not in unfamiliar territory here just having them still in place um the request did come in O over the winter and I asked them to wait to see how the plants uh overwintered and what the survivability was and they complied with that Hancock was happy to do that uh so was the applicant um so I can understand that you know going through spring and all that looks like we don't need the erosion control anymore so right yeah the the ground layer of vegetation is well established so I think I would recommend that the homeowner take up the erosion control and it's uh plastic green plastic netting with plant material inside so we definitely want to get that taken up and not just left there because it's plastic um so um I would recommend that um I think some of the shrubberies looked like they were nibbled by deer some were in good shape um and we don't have a survivability in this order of conditions either yeah but but at this point you're you do have leverage on those plants because it's at this point that they have to be in you know good enough shape healthy okay yeah um so I think I would like to see how those plants do over the next month or more to see that they actually have survived this year and not give the certificate of compliance yet but I actually am more concerned about the plants inside the fence but also how soon can they take down the the big sign because those other guys just got a certificate of compliance 30 years after it was built and they haven't had a sign up all that time so how does the sign coming down compared to the certificate of compliance timing um is I'm fine with the sign coming down I mean this for all intents and purposes is a completed project except that we want to wait find out if the plant survive so they can take the sign down there's no more active construction going on out there and you know they can get a few bonus points for you know having that very visible sign okay so I think that was a big concern of the homeowner is can they take the sign down so they can take the sign down but I would suggest that we not issue the certificate yet and remove the erosion control yeah they can remove the erosion control they can take down sign and so then the one question is inside the fence what was actually planted there because we have the um planting detail dated something 2208 2023 perhaps and we have a previous plan that's 11 113 2022 and the previous plan is all full of ornamentals like cusa dogwood and it has the boxwoods on it and the um 2023 plan has um Eastern U which I didn't see any Eastern U and there's supposed to be like 23 of them so it makes me question what else was planted out of these two lists was it all the old list or was it some mixture of the two do you have any way of finding that information for us and it's just inside the fence those plantings that's what you're concerned about that's what I'm concerned about yeah because they're still within the 100 foot buffer right yeah yeah um to be honest I paid more attention to the plantings along in the um 25 foot Natural vegetated Area so if we are continuing to a future date I can definitely look into that get you guys inventory of what plants are inside and then we could discuss it when we revisit the plants in the um Natural vegetated Area does that sound like a good plan I like that plan okay and then the question becomes we would need to decide whether we're um accepting the plants that are already planted or whether they're is some um need to replace them with the appropriate plant that you know were on the approved list compared to on the original list so I sent Caitlyn two plans it sounds like you have three I can I only have two oh you have two and so the plan uh so one was obviously the one you provided us kayin with the request for and then this other one was the new one but the revision comment is uh plant revisions per comments uh you know February 5th 20.3 ah yeah that's the one you sent me mhm right and that was in response to our request for the plants that were inside the 100 foot line should have been um Native and the 100 foot Wetland buffer includes the swimming pool the shed the putting green um there's a little bit of space between the path and the house that's outside the 100 foot buffer so if they wanted non-native plants up against the house that's not our uh jurisdiction um the this sort of of semicircle in here is outside the 100 foot but all of these plantings over here are the ones I'm concerned about but the bottom line they need to have planted according to the plan that was approved right if he giv us an inventory we can we can compare yeah yeah because the original plan had um cusa Dogwood and uh Japanese Maple and things like that get the actual list yeah so that's what we want to know is what did they actually plan okay I can definitely get that information for you guys okay all right and so I'm G to suggest we continue for a while so that we can see how those plants are doing June 12th is the next like a kind of like a month away it's a month and a half and a so yeah they either will have leafed out or they won't by June 12th shs yeah out in the natural vegetation natural vegetation all right Brian make a motion first of all are you okay with that for me June 12 for you make a motion to continue 52 laress to uh June 12 June zel second Walter toin in favor Bill m in favor Andrew dri in favor Tony wus in favor in favor Martha Moore in favor thank you okay 600 will continue to June 12th moved by Brian seconded by Andy all right Kaylin thank you um if you need any uh more information just reach out please okay thank you have a good night thank you okay all right shall we go backwards to the town Forest we should go to I know people are here for the be Meadow Land disc maybe we don't want to put them through okay I didn't know there was anybody online waiting okay no let's see yeah we have one person on and I saw um I saw uh him H here but I don't see her now so uh Sophie Jones are you here for um the bare Meadow Land Use discussion uh please uh unmute yourself and let us know um I'm actually here for a um a school project for my land use planning class which is like AER of a public meeting so okay great uh welcome thank you thanks for joining uh so it's okay to go wherever because we can get back to the agenda I don't know if anyone has a has bare metal comments over count Forest comments um Bill given that it's 20 minutes of 10 do you have a preference of what we tackle next uh no because I don't have anything different to say about bare Meadow than I said before so whatever the commission wants okay so at 20 minutes 15 minutes of 10 hour we going to tackle bare metal with no one here or is that just going to be because I had something to say that I'm just I just wanted to inform the commission that uh tomorrow I'm going there with a uh a tree crew to try to figure out where the original boundaries are of the historic Meadow and we're going to try to follow the stone wall and try to follow trees that don't look as old as other trees and things like that and make some pragmatic decisions on in other areas and so with that and with this flagging so all the Commissioners may get comments about you know what's going on this is only for the purposes of getting a bid H this is going to be part of our Baseline study from Mass aabon a suggestion to bring the meadow back into its historic uh boundaries and so this first step is so um so I can get a an understanding how much that would cost and I'm gonna go for a grant to pay for this and so I just needed to do this the the flags don't have to be up there we decided not to use paint uh which didn't want to do that to you guys but um but the flags have come down uh you know after a while I might have a couple companies go out there anyways so they're going to be up for a little bit but that's that's the case I don't think we could ever afford all this clearing so the commission when it comes to the commission for a discussion it would be this is what we can afford these are the things that are needed what makes the most sense and uh you know maybe our consultant from M Autobon can can actually ask get those questions before he leaves our services so that's all I wanted to say so tomorrow morning but J you want to start at oh uh yeah I'll uh I don't know I'll let you know uh shoot me a text yeah I'll shoot you text yeah um that's all I wanted to you know let you know Brian and I revised our proposal for the rules for Bare Meadow put it into the ex existing regulations I don't think that got sent out to the commission to see ahead of time oh good so then we yeah so perfect so we should really discuss it later maybe that's a good idea you guys didn't see the newest version with our proposal Incorporated right I guess I was looking what's on yeah yeah I didn't see anything like that I I want to share a fun fact about B which has nothing to do with the issues we talked about but I was looking at a database and it turns out uh back in the early 70s uh part of it was paid for with the land and water conservation fund of the National Park Service um they do that for localities and so forth of course it means that uh you can't ever use it for something else because you'd have a conversion but nobody suggesting that bare Meadow be used for something else I just thought it was a kind of a cool historical fact that the National Park Service gave a little bit of the funding for Bare meow back in the 70s so that was that great yeah so let's have you send the version out where the regulations that we've presented for consideration are fit into that regulation that has the $100 fine at the end of the list of rules um and then everybody can read those before the next meeting and maybe maybe Chu you could send that out sooner rather than waiting until be at the next meeting oh well so we can do it in a month can he what the hell what are you talking about you know you going on vacation but you're not leaving your computer at home no I do expect to have dinners at night though but no I get it yeah we'd probably all be so jealous anyways so uh take the night off you have to you didn't plan your whole life around making sure every other Wednesday is available I can't believe how much it looks in the future to try and do that there was no way around this yeah okay all right I'm G to put it off for two um yeah let's put it off for two um okay so you will be back first meeting in June right no be back for the second meeting second meeting in June really in May going no would be the 27 right but then policy we're still proposing the no dogs in bare uh you should read it and stti to it isn't that what it says yeah of course I would just add that I think we should Street bare me as a role model not as an exception okay so is that the version that we sent to Chuck has he just sent it out to you it was online not it was online because it says it was revised April 18th but how did it get online you know I must have had like it must have been I don't know cups of coffee move on I decided to put off to the second G on April 18 I didn't send it up to the often we're doing this electronic distri Fusion so when you said no one got it I thought you meant it wasn't online oh so no I that's why I asked did you guys have a chance to read it this th last Thursday I had to go somewhere and someone else finished off the uploads ah and so I didn't know if it was online or not okay all right so um so we're gonna postpone bare Meadow discussion until May 22 May 22nd all right and so Town Forest walk Walter and I went with um buil Bill Sullivan and a bunch of other people to see what they want to do in the Town Forest Walter do you want to talk about that or and also talk about what they said at their Town Forest committee meeting the day after certainly Chuck were you able to you put up the map of the cutting Sure hold on give me a second please did I uh Walter I didn't prepare that so when did it get to our email bar I I didn't send it I thought you had it oh The Cutting area um including up to 12 the different zones see if it's on the let's see if it's on the site and just looking at the time I'm going to suggest that we don't do minutes for approval tonight and we'll hold those off till next time in in the meantime um I've been attending the Town Forest meetings and uh discussing the death of the red Pines and the Red Pine itself was probably a very poor choice because its natural habitat is north of here ending at the border of Massachusetts but it was installed in a lot of places in Massachusetts in the 1930s uh usually like for watersheds CCC projects things like that what's happening is that the uh the trees are stressed and they've been attacked by the the alien Red Pine scale which is a bug and dying off uh normally they would live to be 200 to 400 years and they're dying off with us in the what 75 to 100 Year range um the weird thing of course is they need fire for regeneration and we don't want to fire in the Town Forest so hence there's there's no children being born so the two areas under discussion were uh area five um which is on a ridge and the plan was to just cut down the dead trees ah there we are area five is in the center left center of the uh okay and that's on a ridge it's very steep on both sides both East and West sides So the plan is to cut the dead Pines uh basically drop them in place parallel to the trail and let them rot naturally uh they'll be in 10 foot lengths we then there you go sorry no problems that was our first stop on the on the walk and the next stop was in area 12 which is not on this particular map unfortunately it's up close to uh area two area two is right here and so close to area two and up in this area and since it's close to the wetlands uh as Martha recommended The Cutting should be done so that maybe 10% 20% of them would be in 10 foot stumps or snags uh which would leave trees to be eaten by bugs and then in turn be food for a bird habitat um what was interesting though is in the um meeting after the day after Martha I don't remember them saying this but in the meeting there were saying that all the cut material was going to be removed I don't remember that yeah that's usually what they do okay and then we toured some couple other places for future cuting the other part about the meeting which was interesting was there was a gentleman from the uh Northeast mountain bike Association and this ties in a little bit to Bare Meadow um he was saying that professionally speaking he thought all the trail bikers in Reading would be locals especially younger people because it's just not big enough an area for trail for a professional or you know real Trail biker he thought it should be uh we should contain Trio makers by addressing younger people not older people that's what I've got well I know that um along the gas line that that was cut down uh last year that I think that's area five seven that's right down on the loop right down in the loop has turned into a uh a a fun part for bikers there's jumps and and you know Trails they're landing on they're freshly planted uh you know we have like little uh what are they call seedlings yeah the SE the seedlings but they uh they planted like plugs plugs there you go yeah so there's a there's a problem with that area I mean it is inviting you know to someone who's on a bike I mean I could see that but I think when we see a problem we get to do something about it or it just becomes worse so that's that's one of the things that I noticed um you know when we when we went up there so if I can jump in I hope Bill you're still on in the meeting hope you haven't disappeared yet but I just want I don't think I have yeah but I couldn't see there weren't any images up there about the map I just want to stress how much I'm against against this um this would be the fourth phase they have done a very poor job of doing anything with the previous three phases um they have done a little bit of planting that uh Chuck and Marth were just talking about uh also over by a fire Circle they did even less than that 25 trees or so not all of which are doing well so the bottom line is they're opening lots of areas for more sunlight they're not planting anything they're not going back in to manage it after they cut the trees hence invasives are taken over um when we walked through there call it a year ago with the uh forestry agent uh Phil Benjamin he was pointing out in some case es there was a little Pine sapling a little Oak was doing something that's true very few and being choked by all the invasives especially the Buckthorn one my object objection is that this is not a plan this is another individual event my question and I've talked to uh Bill suin about this I was not talking out school but what's the overall picture um this is the next section they want to do uh what is their plan for um uh overall what are they going to do about the invasives what what how they going to handle it all together the big picture is they need a forest management plan they don't have one they come up with these ideas of let's call these areas to what end okay you clear out some areas they're not necessarily helping the overall health of the forest so until I see something that is an actual coherent plan um not just this cut this time but a plan for we want to cut this we want to do this to replace it we're going to come back in a year or two years to clean up whatever is grown in because we'll let the sunlight in I'm against it strongly um I know we're not voting on that necessarily tonight but I just wanted to say how strongly I am against it before you had to go for it well I I'm not going to defend it I'm not sure if there's a plan either but I think the emergency thing is these red Pines are falling down and the risk to people using the forest is what they're really trying to address before you let me address that so I've heard that since they started doing it some of the cutting is a long Trails some of it is long trails that are basically not used in the last time they did an area that isn't even used and they acknowledged it because they wanted to do an experiment uh for different kind of plantings and so the the idea the exus that's being done to protect the Walkers doesn't hold water in fact along one of the main roads near the fire Circle across the road from where they did coling on the other side is any number of totally dead trees right next to the road so if there reason for for being is to make the Walker safer again and not doing that very well you sorry no it's candy thanks yeah I just wanted to I agree with Brian I mean this is an ongoing conversation that must have started before you uh while it's Bill and maybe Tony were here um because they came before us to and told us about the emergency of the the the red Pines and how they're falling and we hear that and I agree with with with them that that's something that needs to be addressed but it was discussed at the previous meetings that they need to have a plan for what they're going to do after that and um they just had a lot of money in front of them and they wanted to use it for cutting and that's where things were going but I agree until they can follow up with you know 75 years ago they or I guess 100 now they planted the red red Pines that was their plan um we need which was a mistake then if they don't figure it out now we're going to be doing the same 5075 years now say and or battling the Buckthorn they just need to figure something out but it's not like if we're against I'm personally not against cutting down the Red Pine they just need to have a larger um management plan to figure out what they're going to do with the land once those Pines are gone Tony thanks for going to those meetings yeah I was wondering if if in their in the plan wonderful people sorry just have to set up thank you all bye Bill if in any of the planting plans there's there's been any discussion or consideration of the soil conditions when when you have a monoculture of Red Pine that's been there for 75 years they're dropping leaves they're acidifying the soil the pine trees do that they've evolved that way to poison essentially other plants from growing and if you're trying to reestablish vegetation I think it's important to understand soil chemistry and to to plan around that has that been considered at all haven't heard a word um again I've only been doing this for three months or three meetings but uh so far the only replanting that's being done is by Boy Scout projects uh at least two of that I'm aware of actually that's not quite right Walter there was another planting done by the fire Circle a small you interrupted me I couldn't hear you I apologize for that I'm hard to control myself but um there was another replanting done by the fire Circle not by Boy Scouts by a bunch of volunteers and donated material from all the kit okay what I was going to say about the Boy Scout projects is because I've asked a question is what are you going to do L later because you're putting these saplings in and then that's it they're they're going to have to survive on their own for some reason so Walter I I would suggest if they have funding to to use a little of it consult with a Forester who understands how slope how sunlight and how soil chemistry affects stands of trees and their development i' like to add one more loog to the fire if I could they are working with the for so my comments so far have just been about this calling but to go back to the point about no Forest management plan so last year they did um an invasive management of buck Thorne in a certain area and everything I hear everything I've seen they did a really good job at getting buck thorn in that area going back to my point about individual events and not a plan the questions I had when I talked to Bill were what are your plans for going after buckthorne in the other areas what are your plans for going after the other 11 in space invasive species that have been identified in there what is your plan to go back to this area just cleared in a year whatever to see what's growing in because you know you didn't get everything and there's no answers to that so again they spent whatever it was $50,000 to clear out some Buckthorn the net benefit is going to be close to zero hence a plan Chuck can you put the map back up I sure can thank you the land use planner that's listening the importance of land use planning um just to talk about an area that um it's all right um Walter didn't really discuss in in detail if you go to area one and come down the red path from area one yeah that one don't don't not that far back up to the intersection yeah right about in that intersection there are some red Pines growing between the water and the Fire Road right and those are ones that we particularly want your input on when you go on your walk with um Bill Sullivan to um to think about what to do about them because they are basically red Pines with their feet in the water and we don't like to mess up things within 25 fet of the water on the other hand they are towering right over the heavily used roadway just by the fire Circle no fire circle is way up there I just can't it's the causeway there multiple causeways okay well isn't this the H I can't see I'll do it here isn't that where the water treatment plant was yes yes can youle okay yeah all right so this is going across the field over that Causeway over here is the first water hole and so then you go up the hill and the fire circles on top of the hill well I see the fire Circle marked up near where it's called area four yeah Council rig oh I I agree yeah okay so I just not exactly sure what that is is that that's by the Beaver Dam but the beaver dam is first Waterman hole and and I may not act I mean I'm pretty sure that's the place where we were yes it is and yes it is okay and then I was saying shouldn't we just take the causeway back to um to leave and they all said no it's shorter if we go this way and they went along that wiggle and down yeah all right yeah so that's and they and then they went over by area seven and out at the Town compost area I would say it was the Kos right there yes okay I that's right I saw he would s okay so anyway that's that's a place that they're particularly wanting your input Chuck um right in that that corner that that place where there's a four roads meeting one of which is red two of which are curvy and brown and one goes down as a Causeway through the stream right near there there's a spruce I think they said that has broken off and the whole top of it down on the ground but the the trees we're worried about are the um the red Pines that are so close to the road there so um the fact that they're so close to the water is the issue that's what I was so what am I going to add to the me the red Pines are going to fall on somebody looks like they're pretty close to the road in that situation I think that if I combined everything that I have been doing here and reading and elsewhere you know safety first okay but but you know then we get to think about replanting um and so if someone takes down a tree or takes down a h tree and it's going to change what's going on out there in the forest at that either at the shrub level or up in the tree canopy I think the commission would always say replant that you might think about Ryan and and everyone's concerns over the course of the last couple of years and say it's too hard to approve this in this broad brush stroke that's been taken you know on this project we want to see these either all at once or individually come into the Conservation Commission for the Wetland area any work within the Wetland area and then we can talk about that specifically what would you do you're taking down 100 trees They're All Dead great we don't have a policy that says you have to replant those but you you don't want to end up changing everything either so maybe some planting would be required and they would at least get that approval but also understand that they would need to budget for that maybe it doesn't work this year or you know these are different spots it just can't be wholesale cutting cutting and planting in the in the Wetland areas are on our buffer zone I don't know me and uh I think Tony's going but me is another site visit next week um and I'm going they wanted to take me out I asked Tony if he would go if he's available at 9:30 is it next week it's the nth May 9th May aren't you gonna be away then yeah but next week a couple weeks yeah well you know the extended next week anyways you're not you're not here um and I'll look at these areas but kind of wondering that you know the commission went out and had their comments and then I'm going back out I I don't like walking around in the forest but well and have thing so you said maybe we say to do this and budget something for replanting when they had the 100K of arper money question was asked explicitly what are you going to do about replanting and we were told they were going to spend some of that money to do it that didn't happen but they did replant they replanted in area seven I don't know where that money came from that wasn't in the the phase there ask some commission for where they said they're going to replant so again in independent um phase the next phase after that phase they did some planting not everything that they yeah I guess that's fair but but there was repl when I talk to Bill he says he'll he'll say things like you requested us to replant and that's why we're doing it I don't think he's looking at phases he's kind of looking at the whole town Forest when money's available um yeah this is this is uh something that you know the commission will have to address and you have to get it into you know you have to get it into a size that you can understand it because it it isn't so different from any other tree removal request you know you want to look up Forest cutting plan our responsibilities under the forest cutting plan and so certain things will be allowed certain things are okay but we know that they've even pushed them back from very close to the wetlands different kind of area different kind of habitat so I think that that within that first 50 feet you know you could have more control over what happens but that's what you can do they come in anyways they have to for the jurisdictional area and your request although you don't have much say in how they bring the plan to you but you might say I don't have enough information here to understand what's going on you know if you're looking at a map like this so how many trees what's the replacement what's the habitat value loss how are we going to replace that trees are dead but there's habitat how about in the past in order to get to some of the dead trees they have had to take down non P healthy just because weath right well I think taking down the trees is going to be that's a given that's going to have to be done the you you know the places next to the road have to I mean not only is it public safety these are fire roads so the fire department is going to say they need to remain open hazards have to go I have no problem with taking down the trees and you're right they're going to come down yeah and I've been walking there and seen them come down just want it to be planned yeah there's another area that they can't get any Machinery in and they just want to start cutting everything and it's going to be it's going to be you know just all over the place and that's when we walked in there place we pointed out that if they cut the trees and they fell to the left of the Ridge Trail that's down towards an area that holds water now I don't think it's a Vernal pool at least not yet but it's at least a potential ver yeah yeah I've seen that before walking through the woods where someone's just cut down a whole bunch of trees they all crisscross on top of each other yeah they're just they're above the ground they're held up by their you know by by the leaders and and whatnot and anything and and they don't touch the ground they don't decompose and it's it's even longer but and that's one of the things that they were talking about putting in the bid was that the logs have to be in contact with the ground if they're going to leave them so they're going to have to limb them to get them to lie flat on the ground you're still going to take a long time to decompose yeah yeah still talking decades yeah there's going to be a lot there it's yeah right but um it's not ideal no it's not ideal and yet it is what we're faced with um so but while we were there there was a woodpecker that was probably 12 feet 12 inches tall that flew around and was pecking on one of the dead red Pines which was what made me start saying H maybe some of these red Pines could be left as woodpecker probably that's what they all said probably pated so I just want to say that I went by 11 Hillside app just to check out this place that they are trying to donate to us and something with enormous white Wings flew through the property on 11 Hillside a landed on a tree I got a picture of it it was again a 12in tall woodpecker pecking on a dead tree there on 11 Hills side F so our our property comes with its own woodpacker yeah you can just come problem took a 100 years to develop and it's going to take a hundred years to fix but but there should be a plan though right not not not uh volunteer growth right or or I mean that's for us to determine that's the so far they said this Volunteer seab Bank and saplings will grow up and that may be the case and there were there were a bunch of stands of 12 foot tall white pines in some of the areas where we were walking by that are going to be filling the the habitat there the difference is those prob came in naturally there wasn't let you clearcut the sun came in and you just let it go that's where the seed fell among the other trees and gr yeah at some speed one thing I've learned is that nature has an incredible ability to rejuvenate itself even without direct my exposure to the uh Town Forest committee again has only been three meetings and one hike my observation and I'll choose my word words carefully since we're being recorded my observation is that that whole committee may disappear on July 1st it just seems like a lot of people are quitting and they have a lot of openings so to say is there a big plan and a master plan I'm guessing no it seems like we get a couple bucks let's go spend it on this I agree Okay so shall we wrap up this discussion and we have left um conservation DPW monthly meeting May 7th Brian can not go before you do that skipped over the uh violations okay the only update is uh heny has moved the shed so they can come off the list and that's 30 H 30 Hy 30 Hy all right in full compliance I asked him to give you a call when that happened he did yeah okay yay all right um and do we can we now move on May 7th you're not able to go to the DPW meeting I will be there if anybody else wants to come in Brian's place we'd be happy to have somebody else join us bring your comments so if you want to join us let Chuck know to send you the zoom link do we have any bills we do not okay do we have any administrator report we do not although um I went out to the pollinator garden and set the uh spots for where we agreed to um put in the signs this is at Birch Meadow Drive Cas okay so you've marked where the signs are going to go get put yeah it's a 6x6 post with a sign on them already purchased sign I got a permission to spend $250 or something like that post in signs signs two hours later Mike Gord sent me an email so we're gonna find out what's going on with that coming up email uh sentiment was uh he'd like to talk about those locations oh okay so the signs have not been put up yet because you have to talk to Mike about the location of the signs okay yeah well I don't know I thought we approved it yeah so did not have to like it has requested that you talk about so find out what he wants to know I was going to go with we it was approved that but I'm sure uh we'll figure it out I don't have time meet with them tomorrow anyways okay all right and I recommend we put off the discussion of the minutes till next time okay um so that we can adjourn a little bit sooner or you can do it in the first week in May when you're not here say next time that is the first week of May no second week true first meeting of May yes okay all right anything else we need before we close down no we don't don't say it out loud okay I'm gonna go think I'm gonna go without knowing thep advice Andy move tojn at 10:20 second seconded by Tony all in favor all right thanks unanimous e