add her name like to give me a hard a related thing I actually don't have that as see on the agenda did catch this one I looked at earlier is the electing the officers for this year okay that's going to be like in August so supposed to be the month we don't have okay so all right yeah we just doing so we'll add that at the end okay um and we have no minutes uh I know uh Nancy T took the minutes last time I can't remember if she sent them or not but we'll do those in August too so uh so uh welcome new members introductions why don't we go around the room even though we all just kind of roduced ourselves and just explain you know tell John a little bit about why you're here maybe how long you've been here and um what what you're looking forward to happening in the future Marilyn I'm gonna start with you I'm Marilyn shapley and another name that gets butchered and I've been on the council for 10 years now a little over 10 and and I just find the aging process really interesting and with my parents I became deeply involved in negotiating the network of services and things for elderly people over the years and it just kind of led me down this path they asked if I'd be interested in joining and I naively said sure 10 years ago and I'm still here I was secretary for seven years so if you don't see me jumping up offering to do the minutes I kind of paid my dues but um anyway I'm very excited about the things we're looking into in terms of the new Community Center Senior Center active Living Center whatever we're calling it but it's exciting to see progress on this good and Nora Nora is our ex official member our secret member not a non-official member but but but um go ahead tell us I'm on the recal committee and I they work very closely with the Council on Aging and I very interested in all the activities um and the initiatives and everything that comes out of this group so I I like to attend and I feel like I that's how I keep in touch what's going on it's a seniors community and Nora is part of an original group that started the friends of reading SC senior 60 plus so now officially have the fundraising arm much like wck has one and Library the library has one and now we have one fabulous group of ladies we and Men John actually two men now no three men yes you increased yes yeah yeah would you say increased increased increased you're only keeping meia so you get a free meeting place no no no uh Rosemarie well good evening everybody I'm involved with this group because I attend many different classes at the Pleasant Street Center and chat with a lot of different people so I feel as though um I can lend something to knowing what people want so that's right here to have a voice for the people that make it here and I am in my second year is CH is it my second year yeah took over from Mar one um I forgot to mention that I did that and uh um I enjoy it I when I retired I uh wanted to do something so I volunteered for the reading cultural Council and I did that for a several years and then my term was up and a position became vacant and I said I'll give it a try and I've been here ever since great people and we keep pulling you back in time you think you're done you're getting pull right back in oh I love you Rosemary thank you I'm Karen Janowski I'm a two-year member of COA and um I'm a town meeting member and I just thought it was important to get involved with another board and since I'm well into my 16 plus years this seemed like a really appropriate when I'm still working and I'm very interested in accessibility and Universal Design I'm Karen pette and I've been on the board I think like five years now I also um manage a elderly property here in ring uh Peter Sanborn so to look out for my residents as well as I am 60 plus so looking out for myself so I'm very excited about the possibility now of the new Senior Center and thanks for the you I'm John seski this is my first meeting here right brand new I look forward to being involved I go to the senior center quite a bit in different activities there I've seen the attendance grow I've seen the programs grow i' like to see more programs and I'd like to see the new seniors set I get build like to get involved so that John Parsons uh town meeting member on and off for over 25 years I've been on the council for nine I'm on recal I was part of helping friends of reading wck uh not friends of read seniors get going and I've been called by some people the Pleasant Street Senator kudin so I from time to time I did not say that um I'm Chris kavaloski the other Human Services administrator for the town ready I oversee the Pleasant stre Center um yeah there you go great and well we're really glad to have you John thank you for for volunteering so um select board update we do not have our select board liais on here so um we will table that and um um the reading active Living Center committee liaison report and that's John and you guys just had a meeting correct yes we did um we've been supposedly going to Sunset about three times though I I think we're finally going to do it so we started the very important process of planning the pizza party for our last meeting um the only other thing I really want to bring up and I think it's very important um with the slideshow I think you still call it a slideshow that's going to be presented to the select uh board uh on August 20th right now has uh one slide in the middle of it where we're talking about you know recommendations um it says Simon's way is is the preferred site reviewed by recal and Council on Aging using evaluation criteria uh from multiple other sites rank Simon Way number one I don't ever remember this Council taking a vote to formally say we prefer Simon's way and I'm not so sure that should be in there unless we unless we want want to take a vote we couldn't do it tonight because it not on the agenda um it took a but but I think we should at least talk about it as to what we do we want to leave it in there or do we want want to taken out I my my reaction is to leave it in there we all filled out the survey and Simon's way came on top on the survey for the council and aging members because Jenna did them separately and they it went hand inand with uh recap so I would suggest that my my recommendation is that we leave it in but the next time we meet we'll have a vote to officially accept it when is when is Reco presented to the s for August 20th 20th so we're gonna have a meeting before that it can always be changed so we meet the 12 and then we can put that on the agenda Rec Rec was exact same position somebody pointed out in context of this slide that they never had a real vote either they just did a right so we just did this is a straw vote and so they just did that I think we need to mirror the process just for the sake of you know just being a representative the rec I just didn't want to you know have something go out there without you know bringing it before Council that's how much weight does a vote like that carry does uh is it would it be going forward written in cement and the other sites not beook at we could word it and say of these two sites or strong strong recommendation if it's presented to the select board yeah after all this research and years I think it's going to be one of those things of you know we go to we favor it could be any site but Simon's way let's just say for an example but if something doesn't happen have to re-evaluate one of the other sites or it could be rewarded to say the three sites found to be available for consideration this is the preference uh yeah they it you the recount took a very simple vote it was you know were you in favor of Simon's way and everybody said yes so for what for anything for a new community center and the pickle ball courts oh we weren't talking about the pickle ball we were well pickle ball is actually in the the senior community Center which is now officially called recal um but that's another conversation all that thought um John gr yeah are they gonna do the SL testing before the SL is recommended is that gonna happen or nobody knows what's in there possibly it's sort of pending yeah it's a pending no we we've made the recommendation knowing that that is an outstanding issue and I think this presentation last week also opened up possibilities as well where where bank is willing to consider anything in terms of in their renegotiations of what lece renegotiated this year no it was this is the renegotiation because the signed lease was done a year or two ago so they need to update it to allow consideration of possibilities behind verbank so and hold that thought because we're gonna we're gonna talk more about that at the at the end when we talk about the um schematic design and that kind of thing so p p that thought but and that's my recommendation if if my understanding I'm listening to the meetings um if there is contamination there then the town has to make a decision what are they going to do they have to fix it so at that point the town has to decide there is another viable site Oakland Road so you know is that a possibility the neighbors um are not happy with that but but so there are there are other options there there is that one other option we just staying at the uh W Street can't do that so it's way too small it's way I actually had another thought I think we should buy property from an adjoining town and which let you know so what if we go a mile over our order if we own it it's not a bad idea I don't think so that's one of the best ideas they had a long time I know I think it's really Innovative yeah we've brought that up to partner with another town yeah and and build a senta for the Two Towns I don't I don't think anybody picked up on that I'm not even talking about I'm talk just buying like we're get off track here yes we are thank you get back on so this supposed to be a short meeting so I so and and it looks like the slideshow is ready to go John Sasso was making some additional edits to it but um um and Ral is planning its pizza party so are we invited you are you I'm your friend they're happy to claim that they've done everything in partnership with us and talk about how we voted on something we haven't yet voted on so I think we're certainly entitled to a slice of pizza well okay so to stay on track and not have Chris scold me um um recal work work group update not certain how that got on here we haven't had one of those in ages since um uh um May I think May was our our last one um and nothing to report nothing to report okay and Karen fatino is not here for a Mystic Valley a the services did I put it down right this time okay so that brings us to Chris and his report all right um July we just finished up the fy2 24 the school year um so you can read through we had a really good year so we pretty much exceeded what I was expecting us to be able to do so kudos to the staff I got to say thank you to the staff um you know carrier um social case manager senior case manager Social Services um Anna are program um Linda our front desk Joe our transportation and jenet our volunteer coordinator um they've done amazing this year um and the numbers look outstanding um you know just every month we continue to keep growing um I'm going to jump around just a little bit you can take a look at the statistics if you want but we ended this year um I had to add something I just realized I have something that the one thing that I haven't been reporting is ATS Medical Transportation so we we report it when Carrie organizes it and gets the applications going but I haven't been actually adding those rides into this number because they go through ATS and not us so I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that moving forward what's that alternative transportation so um so I've actually even though you see on this report total uh total interactions for year to date um 37392 uh that does include um volunteers from January to June what it doesn't include is the 12262 rides trips from ATS so so depending if you report you throw that in we're looking at 38,6 55 um so either way um I'm working on how to how to report that um uh with with ATS trips would be 38,6 55 Jo Coco just join hi Joan welcome you had no trouble getting in and no I'm telling you thank you okay so anyhow regardless our number this year was fantastic um as you can see on the second page FY 24 we ended uh FY 23 we had a total of 25 384 duplicated interactions plus evening rentals um you know so we've had an increase of about 12,000 13,000 over the past uh year which is really good and then before the pandemic um they were they were right around 24564 so um what is that number without duplications the 37,39 3 is that's duplicated so what's duplicated interactions unduplicated is would be right around seven for this year 1789 so it's probably a little bit more than that I don't understand what that means but the duplicated unduplicated means so um unduplicated means pretty much the total number of people that we interacted that we had some way of you know communication not necessarily emails I some emails are included in this but not all um social services are included but staff you kind of you got to find a fine line Like You Can nitpick emails is one of those so we've reached 1789 older adults that we have reached out of those 1789 May probably a little bit more um they have come to the center or we've had 38 roughly 38,000 interactions with that 1789 folks through throughout the year y so um okay thank you so anyhow it is for a town like this um it is a lot um we have really um we're doing amazing with our numbers our interactions um it's on par with most larger larger towns so um kudos to the staff um um you can see some of the updates so feel free to read through those um the big thing that's coming up PFC update is um the week of September 16th we have our av system uh going in um so that's the big uh we find we have that scheduled so uh the great room will be um uh we have we don't have any activities going on in the great room so they can it's a new projector new screen new speakers new microphone system new control and a hearing M system and I believe it also includes a uh teleconference type uh thing as well on that so we can do meetings um so that'll be installed September the week of September 16th so we're excited for that um and then volunteers you can see we're adding volunteers so volunteers have been great as well um Janet's done a great job with getting um you know every event I think over the next two or three months there's a there's hand volunteers coming in for every event which is awesome so we're excited about that um financial report I mean ask a question y um you bought a bot set a while ago we haven't bought it oh we did not buy it because we're having some issues with the purchase because the company's in New Zealand so we're trying to see if we can't find another company in the US so I just wondered what I thought if we had it okay um we had everything everything was looking good but because they were in New Zealand and things it not not right now but we're still working on it um anyhow we haven't pulled anything from our trust funds or anything so everything grow grew um I did get word I want to say thank you to John Parsons he added a little bit more to the um uh Parson fund um so thank you John um he gave another $200 so thank you that's um generous and kind so thank you John um but you know trust funds have continue to grow grown which I was hoping would happen um you know while we're using the ARA funding so uh we should have I got a double check that when Jenna gets back in week um but I did um um I think it's shter I'll have to double check that but we're required yeah trust to spend some money every year so I had requested that whatever it was be pulled out of that back in I think it was May so any everything's looking good numbers are awesome I'm really excited um for what we were able to accomplish this year I have a question yes um on L 28th we have sports stores what's that on L 28 heading towards north ring on the right side is Second Hand Sports or something Y what get a game um well you can get bot a bot balls in a game but what we're looking for is the court a mobile Court which is a boundary and the in a the P itself whatever you call it talked about this a couple months ago that was portable you could use it inside as well use it inside outside um so it comes with with a surface um with a padded surface um and then a boundary that you can take apart and utilize we're working on it we not giving up you just have to the actual surface PIV a little bit has very particular it's made in a very particular way very particular sand and substance so what do you what are you going to put like a material un roll of material I don't know yet because now we have to look at different company so we have to see what they have so in the meantime why can't we just get wi every watchy set well we have one we just we do need the surface we don't really have a level surface yeah um to play we have that up above the parking lot but that's not that the balls can very easily W into we were hoping to play on the patio where the parking lot are inside in the great room we just don't have that surface material but we're working on so anyhow that's good I have all right um anybody else I did send you a last minute question emailed it an hour before so we can discuss it yeah give me a call I included you yeah is that a private question oh I just no no I um I've been thinking about this forever so Chris is we're always reimbursing Chris and it just seems unfair that you're using your own money out of pocket and it's every month it's like sometimes totals a thousand dollars and it just seems like the town should have a credit card that Chris would use instead because every month he's we paying him back well it's about it's only a cou couple hundred like this report says um I think May and June there's a thousand in here yeah but it's May and June it's two months put together doesn't seem fair to you so anyhow I personally I don't mind I'm okay with it um I'm just following Town protocol that I have um EHS doesn't have a credit card um I used to use the town card a little bit here and there um it was just getting difficult where I'd have to walk across grab the PE card then i' go to the store but then I have to make copies of receipts and then I have to bring the PE card back um so it was a lot of extra effort on my part um you know I think at some point the probably you know you know hard to say at some point that'll probably maybe change who knows I don't really mind um getting those frequent F miles you know hey I mean so and you really um the big thing is just like Market Basket the stuff we get from Mark basket um for events um water cookies for like Community lunch so um so I don't personally I don't really mind um you know I know Jen and I have looked into it just make sure I'm following policy and procedures um I am until I'm told otherwise um so but I don't have you know it like I said it saves me probably 30 minutes of time um regularly or more um so it's nice you know as long as every you know the town's okay with it which I haven't heard otherwise you know it's nice that I can just go down to Market Basket get what I want like usually before work or right at the beginning of the day get back and get the things going um so that's where it's at with that so it's not I mean we're not trying to hide anything right I I'm thinking you're trying to hide seems unfair to expect you to pay out of pocket but the nice thing is is you know the town is really good um I always get reimbursed the next week so I get it submitted by Tuesday Morning usually Monday I make any purchases I need Tuesday I submit it the next Tuesday I get come across a better system at any other Center um visited various centers have you come AC class any um I think that varies and I haven't really looked into it very much um you know I think if we look at a new center I think probably it'll shift a little bit if we have a new community senior center community center when when yes but um I don't personally I don't really mind so I don't have any um you know in tell the town tells me hey you can't do that and I'll have to switch wasn't Jenna also looking into there's an issue when we spend money because they don't want us to be spending money and that then gets more complicated for all of us and that I mean and the answer that accounting gives that we have to submit whatever that form is is not to my mind acceptable because that implies that we are vendors and puts us in a tax position to have to file self-employment tax I mean it's just not appropriate at all so and it relates I mean if they can solve it for us you should be swept into the same Sol well I think it's a little bit different because I'm staff we're staff too because we're staff of a permanent and we have to be careful about that word to um let's put reimbursement um for volunteers on August J We're paid staff as opposed to we or volunteer staff but we are staff um okay well thank you criis uh updates um any um up the newspaper Outreach Marilyn I sick last week and so I didn't get the latest letter to the editor out and I'm behind I'm feeling like it's I can get it out this week I'm mended but um it it feels kind of like these little stabs in the middle of nowhere and we really need to talk about putting together a campaign and it needs to be more than me that's writing these things and it needs to be targeted to when decisions are actually going to be made in the I I think it warrants some discussion and I actually think that's a really good letter and it might be best to hold it off a little bit until we do it so it doesn't just disappear into oh a few months ago there was a letter about that um and I think it'll be better once we have a location I agree and I think it'll be better once we have a owner's project manager and a timeline and things so I think it's kind of a goodie that we've got ready to slop whenever but I think it should be part of the sustained campaign for the senior center not just a random here and there so I can send it if people want me to but I would prefer personally to but let's give it a couple of weeks and see what goes on with this OPM and everything so I think people get the urgency around this the question is but so but I would suggest we hold on okay we have a location okay we've got it all po K and ready to go oh yeah it's ready to go we've gone back and forth several times and it's down to 250 words but I just think we we need much more context to this campaign it's got to be multiple people in a sustained well-timed thought out effort and I think we can do that we just haven't done it yet and those other pieces need to fall in place all of which are falling into place so I'm I'm think thinking that that's a September agenda probably so because the owner project manager probably will hope you know if everything if if all the Ducks lined up properly could be here as soon as the first weekend September but um but going back to what you said Marilyn I mean th this owner's project manager is g to be responsible for uh coming up with a master plan so rather than for us to just brainstorm ideas which we've done in the past and we have a list of all those so I think it will also be important to get a firm proactive commitment from the rec side of recal is we're being told it's not just a senior center so we need a sustained voice of and we're not opposed as far as I can tell but we're not the voice of whatever those other parts are to make it a recal and not just a senior center and there are people in town who should be ready to speak up and join with us we need to get those pieces meshed as well so sep our September meeting we put that on as a discussion okay and the reimbursement will put on for the August meeting and as well as elections um and also um for people who want to go I believe the coun agent thing is in October in the okay Chris uh yes it is in October it's down um in dat don't look it up um because we will need people to indicate their interest and we'll need to get them registered to go to that and all those good things by September so my only my only question is um it's October 23rd through 25th um would it be would it be a little bit more wise to right right now the COA board which you can I'm just throwing this out there is you're just throwing out to like technically everyone could go and then the COA would just pay for it would it be better did last year which is what you did but it was also just up here in Denver so we didn't have to spend the night or drive back and forth in one day my plan is to just drive down and come back in one day down when it's on the gate would it be better to send maybe just delegate a couple people to go or rather than possibility of everyone going um because do you want to go what is it the cake Cod COA the Massachusetts Council sign it's a it's professional trade Association councils and aging are welcome to join Elder Services certainly welcome to join in many towns those are the same thing but not all um people who work in the field but have the mission of this Council on Aging which is to you know the stuff that's on our website are welcome to go and there's a oh um what you call nonprofits 501 C's who have that mission can go so I think that so the future agenda item yeah yeah yeah but but um I I think we should talk about see who's interested a lot of people can't go because they're working in this during the day just to chime in with an opinion I me I went last year I was amazed with the amount of of programs they had I mean they just had hundreds of them and I was also amazed with how professional how how just just just what an incredible conference it was so if they run it like that every year I mean it is people should be going I I'm not suggesting I go again this year um but I I and I wonder if some staff should go besides yourself Chris uh yeah I know Anna I'm I'm trying to get myself and Anna to go um so but I I would like to we can't discuss this tonight but I would like to actually make a rather than making a free-for-all um because you know let's say everyone on the board said yes I'll go and then I need a hotel room does that mean that's all coming out of the trust funds and that could go really ridly in there trust fund so I don't think that's super responsible but we need to talk about we talk about it we can talk about what would be reimbursable and what wouldn't be reimbursable because that makes sense if you work for a business or you work for state government certain things are not reimbursable so but I think it's a council decision if we find this is because part of our mission is to learn about the needs of Elders and it's an excellent professional conference I learned so much and you know you can only go to so many of the different meetings and the advantage of multiple people is to be able to spread the knowledge but anyway we can we should discuss it is the point and we should do it early enough so people can plan and get it on their put it on the August okay thank you okay um rctv summer intern Jean pra is not here but she did give me a call um the intern had kind of gone underground for a while but uh he has now resurfaced and he's still very interested in working on the project so um um it looks like it's a go and I think Jean is is going to call you Chris to talk about access to the uh the calendar and the pleasantries I was also thinking you know whether um a conversation I don't know if H Janet has ever been involved in a conversation on that but she she did the uh brochure for the friends and um it's fa did Janet wow and it's fabulous looking so I'm thinking maybe we can make it look a little bit more professional than than it is now and then we have to do a lot of promotion because if people don't know it's there what it was John was the uh the feeling was that not all seniors are on the internet um or have ACC either either have access or ability to use the internet but everybody usually has a television set and has access to rctv and rctv does local programming so what Nora and um Jean did was they worked with an intern reading High School yeah and um she was able to put the entire newsletter on but you have to get the word out it's on at certain times you have to be able to know where to look um because the TV Guide is you know it's not easy so uh so there's a little bit more work to do on that end of it but I was just thinking maybe if Janet is that the name of the summer intern no no the volunte I'm taking notes what what are we saying about that sance since that is an agenda item I can't remember his name what we say he's and and he's gonna volunteer he's last month it was is more available for where did he goed we don't know a high school he's back I mean Jun reach out to me I can always take a look at see if Janet can maybe be willing um is it liaison TV no high school student volunteer so he's transferring he's a COA intern COA intern creating stuff that can be given to rctv to put on the television summera summer intern yes okay just trying to yeah forget out what I'm gonna say right the wording on the paper is rctv summer intern COA summer intern for R for RCT R good way to it how how are people able to be aware that this information is on the TV like that and problem where that how to access rctd so so the first part of this Pro project was just to see if we could do it and Nora and Jean worked very hard with the uh Spring end of the year intern and they were able to do it so now this new intern is going to pick it up but as I said we the we need to provide Outreach materials to the senior so they know at 3:00 on Tuesdays they can watch the um newsletter yeah which is a little bit hard to Define and at four o'clock on Thursday they can watch it so they just our C just fits it in wherever there's empty space so last minute do they last minute no they're prepared a month in they get the monthly newsletter so it's an every month activity and it's the calendar basically and um all the other happenings thing is rctv doesn't really uh monitor the volume of Watchers I don't know if they do that for any of their other programs we don't really know how many people are tapping into it um I've seen it for so whether it's worth it but then John it's something that has been tossed around for I don't know a couple years you know let's use our community cable TV station in order to provide our reach activities but they um and and they're a wonderful group and they're very committed but um their their schedule is very scattered right now so we don't get a specific time so we may find that it's not worth the effort but since we have volunteer let's do it again right hey I know and Nora and Jean um did a a really good job there was a lot of work they had great meetings at the high school yeah we met a lot at the high school the thing is the kids are interested in either graphic design or something related so they really and they're very technology advanced you know so they they sort of the first one we had sort of took it very quickly and he was able to figure it all out wasn't someone working on a logo for the councel Yes actually she did come up with some options um not sure where that stands did she ever share that with the council M yes she had some good Loos that might be something to put on yeah could do that um and that brings us to our final agenda item Chris notice it I know we're doing well but I'm not getting my hopes up because I know how I can get off track I know I'm waiting but um I I put together um a PowerPoint of um to tell a story and to hopefully move us into the next phase and maryn are you going into the schematic design discussion right now yes you missed an entire part I did next [Music] fors mailing why I don't get my hopes uped um promotional materials Jean Marilyn myself and oh there um and um I know I do have uh um and the idea was that as we move forward with this we are going to have to have some Outreach materials and um something that is really effective in the local campaigns is lawn signs so the four of us met and tried to uh come up with ideas for lawn signs and um the problem is we cannot um be because we are a uh Town volunteer organization we cannot um tell people what to do so one of our ideas was a la sign that said vote for a new Senior Center but we can't do that because you're telling them they should vote for it and we can't do that so what we I I think the we kind of went back to the very first one which is pretty bland and it's basically reading needs a new Senior Community Center parentheses recap and then have a QR code there because there might be some people that are walking along suav or wherever so they would be able to uh use the QR code for more information and uh it you know we we could also update our Council on Aging website um and put more information out there and gu we can do because it is part of our mission is to inform the community about Elder needs so telling the community that the elderly population needs a new Senior Center is perfectly appropriate as far as I cancern did you check to make sure that that was that was okay yeah yeah that that is know it's our mission I mean it's no no right no yeah yeah well it depends what day you talk to whomever you talked to at Town Hall but um um I mean we we still need to to check on that but um we can always reward it to the current Senor Center is no longer adequate that's just a fact or learn more about reading's needs for a new senior sector yeah anything like that I think more education stonum had a massive one for in the high school it was on virtually every lawn and stone was in well there I think did say votes I don't know how they do that that's that's yeah know we can't say votes I got away with that that put that together yeah well that's another issue I personally along with wck being involved I think we should be drawing on the town as well I mean if select board says go on this the town is is advocating doing something we can sort all that out so so I guess the first question is the people sitting around this table now uh do we like the idea of the on Sons um kind of goes back to what Marilyn said 10 minutes ago we need an overall strategy we don't have an overall strategy but we did the open houses that way and you know the attendance wasn't fabulous but we got people in and we got press and we got press so um so I I just my the way I look at it is yeah it would be great if we had the succcess spreadsheet and we had names next to it and this person's doing this and this person's doing this and dates and dates uh but that's G to be a lot of work to get together um and and um and we can still do it but the lawn signs would be something that we could do right away they can be used again we could pick them up like the the uh candidates did they went and picked them up and put them in the ground um who made the candidates you know because that there's one that has [Music] reading like the pound sign yeah that's a nice like that but I don't know what where you get that or it's expensive um we we looked at some companies and to get 250 yard signs was about $1200 um so that's a big chunk of money that would come out of the come out of the funds but yard sits are very visible if if we can be if we can really you know get a map and get people to put them on the get they're durable too it's not like you know sending postcards that go right into the recycle question because it is a little um ambiguous about what we what we can do as a town board but is that something that the friends of reading um seniors friends of reading 60 plus community that they could do and they wouldn't have the same restrictions that we would have it is but they don't have money oh okay um can we give them money I don't know actually that's what I was gonna try to find out whether should look into the Lions Club was able to I don't know if you've gotten it yet but the Lions Club was going to donate several thousand dollars to the Friends um uh bank account so I don't know if we can though if it were for a specific designated purpose for the education of the community or something you know very carefully crafted to be within our mission I would not personally see there any reason we couldn't but we have to look into it yeah so I guess um needs more research we need to have a real sit down with the town to figure out what we can say and what we can't say and if friends could be involved or you know it could just be 10 people get together oh you're saying like say the friends that maybe we could say vat is that what you're saying yes yes you can Y is your that seems the more yes yes you know but also this point is a long way away right now we're just we don't want wouldn't Sharon Thomas be able to tell us that about the Lions she's inv she's involved in the Lions Club shamon Tas yeah we talking about the Lions Club no I was just saying that the Lions Club said they is going to donate some money to the friends but I don't know if the Council on Aging can donate money to the friends I don't know I think that isn't that counter they give money to us right you're supplementing I know well but we don't have programs they would give money to other services I think yeah they wouldn't would right so I I I guess um my my question to people sitting around on the table is is it worth exploring this a little bit more and do we think that doing an Outreach campaign campaign like this would raise awareness in the fall for the need for a new Senior Center and again I think we need to find out what we are allowed to do that's why yeah yeah so we we need to do more even the mailing list and whatever I yeah think anything's going to happen in the fall signs in the fall you you will be completing with political La sign well and those are factors that wee got to consider there's always going to be an election going on so big election I know November but anyways so I so here's my question um some preliminary research was done more research needs to be done um I'm not used to making motions you can't because your chair oh okay but can someone make a motion to say that um there's um it's worth the effort to do further research on it do we need to make a vote I agenda okay we can discuss it it's the question of who is going to do that additional research I think yes yeah I started to say I don't think anything's going to happen in the fall so I don't think we need to move too fast anyway what's going to happen in the fall nothing I think once we know where this is going to be proposed what what the select board is approving I think that's really when we put a lot of energy into it right so but in the meantime we don't know really can't actually it's not even select boards if I'm understanding it it's not ultimately select board will make a recommendation but it's really the the building committee that will pick no no no no it's the select board okay so and the select board could choose not to approve it they could stop it dead in the water right there right so we don't want to get before the horse so when recel but we want to be thinking about recel presents the deck that's being finished on August 20th with their recommendation they're making their recommendation to select board but selectboard at that meeting won't be approving the site they'll just be saying thank you recal right okay okay that's where I was getting confused because they've got to wait until building committee does their whole analysis so then they'll come back to sel board at some point and then after that they'll be ready to go to town meeting hopefully okay I got it when select board makes their decision their determination right because that will then allow it to be part of the warrant which would then go to 10 going back to what happened this fall no the warrant cles like sixs before meetings in is it the beginning is the beginning of October I don't know end of September um but going back to what will happen this fall it would behoove us I think and the elder population to create a stir and an awareness and a voice about we really need a senior center so the select board isn't just saying to you they he that much about it except from these noisy little committees I think there is an argument for starting to Fan the flame earlier and get more public awareness to to do something just select board realize it's it's not just a few committees it's really we're weing that something see the community need need to get the community to speak up well and maybe it's maybe it's not the lawn signs um although we don't want to do the lawn signs in the per se but um maybe it's mailing um maybe it's postcard mailing I'm thinking more open meetings I still think there's an awful lot of education and and in more different sites maybe it's and I you do your weekly coffees over at the senior center but I'm also thinking for more of the people who aren't going to go to the senior center to see this um they're a big piece of the boat that will matter in there you know like know the library something library or even hold you know weekly coffees at the coffee shops around or have a buffet dinner lowbudget one you know people can come to I mean I just think something to start drawing people but again it's a big campaign discussion we have to have because I think we've done a good job of making information available to those who use the singer Center I think it's but that's you know 16700 7,000 to day also help to day helped but I think we need H hundreds and hundreds not I mean if we wait too long and we wait until it's right upon us it's too late it's too late yeah so do we have a presence at the um September Fair the street fair yeah we always go but again you get 20 30 people well the whole town comes out yeah they do thousands we had a terrible location last year it's the one we get every year I don't know if we do better but it was terrible okay so we're going to talk about this again in September um uh let's it because what we're doing here is we're throwing out even more ideas you know um so we need a calendar we need a um maybe sorry one more idea maybe what we need is to distribute postcards to people to mail to the selector saying I learned about this I support it you know that's a good idea Ma I like that yeah something like that mail them into them so they've got some real evidence that well hopefully they'll mail them maybe a little backfire W I know nobody's even willing to put it in a mailbox stage but know that's the that's what all the campaigns are doing now yeah with the postcards and but again can we do that if it's informational it's informational if it's information but we're also allowed to advocate for the elderly that's part of what we're supposed to do so but advocating for the elderly doesn't necessarily mean I don't know we could get we could get input I mean but I think there's something along those lines we can certainly do thing to add for future agenda item because you said strategy for outreach in September we do need to talk about Street Bear Day in August meeting the DAT is on the August August meeting agenda what is that called [Music] Street pardon me I don't know does anyone know how the locations are assigned for different Roots all right we're now we're getting off trck let's we got to talk about this for next meeting we'll get back on but but just want just quickly answer that question pretty much the town people get put up in front of the Town Hall it's pretty much the way it works for the last 10 years that's where we've been yeah no one people you don't like that location oh it's right next to H all right let's get back on track all right yes sir okay so um anyways as people come up with ideas email me them and I will be the collector of ideas okay and maybe that can be the beginning of some kind of strategy that we can use when we meet in September to talk about this okay anything anything you can think of you know anything airplane rides um lot ofies people like scratch tickets oh can't do that um um so blimp that brings us into schematic design can you bring up the um y SL please although this is what you you made this right yeah okay I just want to make sure that people are where this is not Rec's presentation I was confused with presentation this is this is not recal this is not the presentation no this is not the presentation that recal is going to be doing for the select board all that but I'm just I just want to pick since this is on rctv now and recorded because this front page right here says ready and Center for active living this is not it's not not um presentation yeah well go back to that first page though um the reason I put that there was because I think the Council on Aging you know we worked collaboratively with recal but boy the recal committee worked really really hard for um uh what three years two and a half years to get to the point where we are now and Mark doc was a champion of this they this whole um committee is going to sunset in August so I just want the public to know what a um worthwhile committee this was and how effective it was uh which is which is why I added that at the last minute but this is not a recal presentation this is a informational presentation of documents that have been published um by our design consultant BH plusa so um so how does this connect to the discuss let me let me let me let me start with a story so so what you see up there and I believe it is Po posted on the recal page um is the draft of the first two phases of the feasibility study and you can see from the table of contents there I should have made that bigger was this draft done by bhna H was this draft done by BH and yes okay yes so b& put this together because one of their work products is a feasibility study and that's what this is the first two components of the feasibility study so I would encourage people to go out there and read it it's 90 some plus Pages um and you'll notice down at the very bottom the appendix has a number of the uh um uh I'm going to have to get up and references it yeah the a number of the environmental uh uh stats that they used there's geot technical report it's all information that was put together by E BH plusa as they determined uh how we were going to move forward okay next slide so feasibility study at actually had three components and the first one was preparing a facilities program study and basically that was to identify what kinds of activities uh needed to be done and this is when recal went out and did all of their visits and um put together a list of of of ideas of programs that uh um reading may be interested in exploring the second phase of the feasibility study which spans several months uh evaluated the sites and we spent a lot of time on evaluating those sites and the Council on Aging was part of evaluating those sites we we filled out those worksheets um and as a result of that the uh um ultimate site that recal is is recommending is the Simon Way site the third phase of the feasibility study is a preliminary schematic design so that has not been done yet and that is what bhna is going to start as soon as we get an owner's project manager in they are going to to uh start the schematic design process so um so the next few slides just tell the story of of what was accomplished we had uh uh actually three sites the Pleasant Street Center site which was kind of knocked out of the running and it came down to Simon's way and Oakland Road with Oakland Road winning out so sites was phase two of the feasibility study as part of the uh feasibility study and part of the site reviews what bhna did was they put together using the programming information that they obtained um they put together what a uh H floor plan might look like and this was not meant to be a final floor plan it was just to get an idea of what would fit into the space um for which we were selecting a site for so next one and the other piece of that they took that site plan and they pars it out amongst uh the program ideas as well as administrative space and they looked at each one of the sites Pleasant Street Center as well as Oakland Road and Simon's way and Oakland Road and Simon's way were very similar and it was discovered that Pleasant Street basically it was going to cost more and we were going to get less next Slide part of the phase two or or yeah phase two of that feasibility study was that conducted a engineering preliminary uh uh traffic report which is included in the feasibility study next slide they also did a preliminary cost estimates remember that raised a lot of um um comments from people this is way too expensive how can we afford this but it was part of what being hna was tasked to do as part of the feasibility study um so the feasibility timeline the original timeline was that the bhna would do the schematic design phase in the summer and it would conclude in September 24th notice we aren't anywhere near those dates so those dates are no longer um applicable and um the schedule once we get the owner's project manager in is going to be reworked so that we'll be looking at um the fall of 24 into 25 and with possible construction starting in 26 um just so people are aware I don't know if people are aware of of what the um what's happening with the permanent building committee uh they are required by the town bylaws and by the town Charter to uh uh participate and administer major town building projects um with an aggregate cost of 1.5 million in June PBC prent building committee voted to accept recal as a town project this past month um actually end of June July 18th was the due date and RFQ was posted and uh five proposals were submitted for Consultants to uh um apply for the owner project made manager that is those are currently being re reviewed by the uh permanent building committee there's a sub committee that's that's actually all of the permanent building committee is reviewing every every one of the uh um the consultant uh proposals but there are going to be three people that will be conducting the interviews and and one is Nancy Tumi she's an architect could you go back to that other slide forough we we probably need to watch because this is not schematic design we're talking about a lot of other things well it is but you're kind of going in and out a little bit but no no follow me on this because in order to get to schematic design these had to be completed and it's important that we all understand what the process was and how we got to where we are and in order to do the schematic design I don't know if everybody is there this is real quick so the um during the permanent building committee meeting as well as the feasibility study raised the concern about testing the soil at Simon's way and it was decided that re could make the recommendation to the uh uh select board without having the soil testing done um but the select board most likely will not make a commitment until we know that soil is is safe but during this phase as this is going on the uh uh testing the soil as well as the proposals BH plus is going to complete the schematics for the selected site so they're only going to work on the one site it's just going to be Simon's way funding depends on the final cost estimate and then we did talk about those two bullets down below so basically the owner's project man manager is just that he is going to manage the overall project and if anybody wants to see the details that he's going to put together or she is going to put together a master project schedule and uh coordinate monthly reports so all of this is going to be uh um researched and um well documented so we'll be able to go back and look at it so the next slide so what's the schematic design that bhna is do it's basically taking the programming and the concept design which is what you saw on the other slides was that was more a concept design and they are going to translate it into architectural and spatial designs um the successful schematic design phase they have to do the site analysis it's part of the schematic design phase as well as programming options um both the building program and location have important implications in the design process so during this phase stakeholders and that means uh uh permanent building committee it means Elder and Human Services it means Council on Aging will be working on this schematic design with BH plusa so that what we ultimately come up with is something that the town can point to as as meeting the needs of for the site as well as the programming and hopefully within the cost um so next slide so at this point I'm just going to turn it over to Maryland and Marilyn has been doing some work on this on looking at what was done for the conceptual design also looking at other senior centers out there and much like our we need a strategy for outreach we need a strategy for the schematic design if we don't get involved in it it's it's not gonna happen and I'm gonna turn it over and I think the details of the schematic design to a great extent will make certainly will have a tremendous impact on the value of what we build and this is our opportunity I think to have some input and I know Nancy was encouraging us to think this way several meetings ago when she brought the wonderful outlines and wanted us to cut the little squares out for the rooms and think about what we thought I found that very hard I was all excited at first and then I realized I don't know what I'm doing here but for me it's easier to look place this is North Andover which I knew of because my brother and sister-in-law used to live there and I know their Community is so excited it's new it opened within the last year it's about 13,500 square feet and they have about 7,000 people aged 60 plus so they're actually a little smaller than reading uh it's beautiful I really encourage everyone to go and there to Dre it Yer how much did it cost I don't know that um but it cost whatever our town could pay their average income household income is lower than readings it's not a wealthy community over yes as oppos to and over I can tell you at least in 2022 well as opposed to read the average the median income household income in North Andover in 2022 was 13,312 and the median household income in redin in 2020 was so I did my homework and you can play games with the averages and how many are on this you know but this is in our Ball Park a reasonable place to get ideas I'm not saying it's the same as reading's needs or potential but to me I can look at this and say ah and the director is extremely willing to be helpful to share any and all information um and Nancy and I went up I finally got Nancy up there I've been saying I'm see for about two years it's gorgeous but and there are things that are not perfect about this she wishes it were bigger already um and she wishes she had a gym and she she was very envious I mean what this doesn't have is a gym so this would be like dedicated Senor space as opposed to also Jim and whatever else recal would want or the wreck part of recel would want like office space for wreck is not in this and that would have to be but this is only 13,500 feet out of the 20 something thousand we're talking about anyway I found this really helpful what I would like to do is take this and translate this into first measure square feet then not um their diagrams and she didn't have them so we just need to go up with a tape measure and see how big are these rooms and for example their multi-purpose room on the first floor is large enough that Chris's dream come true they they have the capacity to leave the tables set up most of the time time and still have half the room that could be adjusted so that the staff doesn't have to take up and put down the tables every hour on the hour it's got massive really accessible storage space it's really lovely it's got Glass Walls everywhere it's a very update place it's got things that she wishes were different like it's got a diagonal fireplace in the um what's it called the cafe Lounge which I loved but that was the one thing she really regretted she said that's a fire but you can't move it and when she wants to do something in there that needs the whole room if it were on Wheels she love it but it's not it's a fireplace with a chimney so that was a design feature she would advise against doing the way they did it so it's got things we can learn from it and what I think is really important is you can look at space and talk to them about okay a which programs run in which rooms B how many participants can they fit in each of these in each room and this is what we need Chris you your help on this as in particular is what do you envision it would be good to have in Reading if we could and it gives us just a starting point if we could find another Community that's similar all the better it doesn't have to be North handovers but I personally would love for a couple of people to go up with me with a tape measure and let's start measuring these rooms and fill out a table on some of these things and also you can see what a community of reasonable thinking people was able to do who was committed to having what seniors need I mean um I was subak a back I was trying to help recal Phill in the one slide on their deck where they didn't have a percent growth and I did some research and what UMass came up with is that in 2010 I believe it was one out of every five residents was over 60 but by 2030 they expect that to be one out of three I mean think about it look around The Market Basket one out of every three people in there over 60 look in the library look at walking to it's going to be a much older community and these people are entitled to the kinds of places that they need to have a healthy experience aging and read so anyway this helped me start thinking this way but it needs to be translated into square foot by kinds of activities and compare it to what you'd like to accomplish and fill something because if we can give them that de deta as they go into doing the detailed schematics I think we'll come out much closer to something we really like the lobby for example I love it I mean it's very open it's easily accessible it's it's got an entryway that's got a covering place you can drive in and not have to get out under the rain I mean it's I think well thought out and so it's a good example if a couple of people want to go I'm happy to drive up with our tape measures and um go to work on trying to document some of this will translate it into what would read like to have but it's a starting point the other thing it helps us think with I think it's hard to think at least I find Chris has probably got a great vision but for me I find it hard even though I advocate it all the time to know what to recommend for that so the great UNP participating art of the elder population and what they might like to do and this gives us a real example of what happens she told us that when they open participation went up 85% and the number of people using their senior center went up 42% and their transportation use when 30% these are real numbers because we get all hung up on the well we don't really know how many would use it and maybe they don't come because they don't want to and never we just don't know but this is an example that's not that dissimilar that we can say well here's an example look what actually happens so I I highly Advocate that we milk this for all I did go online to see how much this was it looks like it was 11 million and then they had to spend an additional 550,000 for to to pay for an adjoining lot for parking so it was cheap but this doesn't have the gym and stuff that's cheap but in 2020 pardon me that was in 2020 yeah and and it's smaller because it doesn't have the gym and things like that but yeah oh and actually to that point the way they they are a senior center it's managed by Senior Center um employees but um the way they pitch it to the community and they're very serious about it is it's a senior center for Community use and the community is encouraged just as they are with Pleasant Street to rent to rent it and use it and they do it a lot and lots again of things that people like oh you need the custodial staff and this and that LR yeah you do but they've also found that it's not so complicated as you might think um their deal with this is most things they don't need custodial St people know to clean up and the deal is if you don't you will never be rented to again so guess what they clean up after themselves so things that in theory seem like big potential hurdles it's a good way to see what what can be done so anyway that's my pitch for let's go take a ride up to North and over and start measuring so your point is such an important one it's the senior center for Community views I like we have absolutely identifi the need for a better facility for a senior for the 60 plus community and so the concern for me is I as I've always said I want whatever we propose to the town to be passed time I don't think a 28 to30 million um project is going to be passed not when we have to also not at this not next year not when we have to pass another project that we will lose um State funding for so I am concerned about that and one of the other things that did come up has come up is there a space behind Burbank Arena that could possibly be used for the senior center instead of the the Zan land so that's another thing to consider as well and I think that that's going to be coming up in the conversation yeah so would that save us so what what does that save to go behind the bir bank is supposed to open huge savings why why because they don't have to test the land yeah they do yeah to it has already been tested for when they built um for when they built not for the par I think they had to test the whole thing my understanding is that it has been tested um so we need to so we need to figure that we need to get all the facts on that particular one it's a it's in a it I mean we're kind of getting off topic here but but but it gives us a vision and I thing I felt really lacking in all of this is we we have a vision of all the things that are wrong and lacking we got a really good Vision we got a mov on it but we don't have a good Vision pardon me we need a vision of something that we think would be good that the no that the do what's best um for the seniors but also keep in mind what um the residents are willing to yes spend including our 60 plus population we don't want to price them out of our community so that's the challenge before us right but that's one's not our challenge that's the challenge I would say for the building committee and the select board and all the rest our challenge is to articulate a clear picture of what we think is a reasonable ask um sorry I just realized Jean PR's on and she has her hand up okay hello Jean hi uh quick thing for you I just came in about five minutes ago into the meeting but um I did listen to the details of North Andover Etc but now after hearing this I think and I have concern about this I'm feeling that the senior needs are second here to a recreational need so how do we go about addressing this like like Marilyn just mentioned it's a beautiful facility in North Andover and they don't have a gym but yet they're clientele is increasing because of a new facility so where does that leave us I don't understand what you mean what I'm saying is I think we need to start emphasizing a senior center that's all I'm hearing in town is oh we need a gym and we need this and we need that for more recreational purposes not for the additional uh clientele for our arts and crafts or our director offices Etc nurses station so this is my concern are we we we're promoting or we know we need the COA is for the elderly but I'm hearing that the word the word senior is not even in some of the presentations it's all Recreation active living when I hear that I think of the youth why can't it read reading Senior Center active Living Center I think you know I I I yeah um I I think what we're talking about I I heene and and yeah that that is a concern and uh uh uh that uh I I know it's a concern but the but the the the proposal that recal worked on was for a senior slash Community Center so we that is that is nothing that that's that's there that's a fact so what we have to do is using um uh what Marilyn is suggesting looking at the facilities and figuring out where do what extra rooms do we need and how big do they need to be and and then ultimately how are they going to be man managed but that's that's not that's actually I'm talking myself into a corner here but um that's not the schematic design the schematic design is more more layout but this is a senior slash Community Center that's that's it ours ours not yeah but that's what that's what ready is is building that was the direction that recal um wrote up in their final report so I don't my recommendation is that we not move and and look back we need to go forward and make this happen so that it works for the seniors and and then if if you know Rec recre cretion is a part of it first and this is what they said R said in their study the primary um uh objective was a senior center I yeah I understand that Nancy but I think in the last month or two it's being presented more as an active Living Center with a the title that's the title and that's what it's going to be there's actually a lot of senior centers throughout the country have changed their name from a senior center to an active Living Center because it gets rid of that stigma and and a lot of younger 60s are increasingly um aware of their health and having a gym is actually a real real place um uh so I we we just we just don't want to move back my two cens go ahead Jean also what I'm talking about I hear you but what I'm talking about here is not meant to be the exhaustive ask but we're going into a stage where detailed real schematics that will result in real blueprints where they do things like no where you need supporting walls and things like that that are way out of my scope I think we should not miss the opportunity to articulate as clearly as we can with the ask for the senior part of this project should be that doesn't mean there shouldn't also be someone on the wreck side or wherever asking for what they and a real prime example is there's no office space for wreck in this plan and at the very least they're going to be asking for that and we need we seems like everyone's excited about I I I agree with that but I I just feel that I my my thought is this I think we just need to stress the senior side of it and as far as the um the footage of what you just mentioned for uh nor Andover is there ready way to ask them because on their schematic they must know the size of each room versus taking a tape measure no we've talked to them the way their blueprints are is it's all chunked out into little bits and oh okay you have to sit and add it all up and it just be more efficient to go in Nancy and I did one room but we really just and we don't need to do every one of these but like the major program rooms at least it would be nice to know won't take us probably more than half an hour let's just go in and get some card numbers and put it on a grid where we all go well how many participants Fit For What kinds of activities we need we need to start making it real and translating into real people and real programs not just this hypothetical right right now we're two designated spaces of no particular determination so what's our next steps for tonight well I I the the uh next step is that and we can't do well first of all we can't we're we're kind of ahead of ourselves and that's a good thing because we don't we don't want to be behind the eight balls so we want to be ahead of ourselves and we want to be ahead of ourselves in terms of what is this Center going to look like and how is it going to work for the 60 plus population and what must it have and what must it have and what um uh bhna and recal will tell you is that what you see right there you might not like the way the rooms are laid out but what you see are what their analysis of programs um for the reading senior community what what rooms and the sizes of the room would work so we need to make sure that that that is accurate and and we wouldn't expect it to be because as they told us many times this is just to prove what could well it was give test numbers in the slides no but but but they did say for example I think the arts and crafts room is 900 square feet I can't need 00 foot 900 it's 900 fet yeah to my mind it was much too arbitrary and not transl I would argue that few art teachers could teach fit in a900 for that reason I'd say it's not fully thought for purposes of testing what could fit I think it was fine but for where we are now I'm trying to move as fast that because I don't think it's fine for the next room of a thousand square feet well and I and I you remember the discussions on that I'm going to play devil's advocate here um the discussions on that was that the rooms could be divided so that we were looking at spaces that maybe it's just two spaces but the spaces could be divided we did talk about that I know there was talk but also when I asked the questions because divided ones have to then have direct exits to each part of the division it would be a hard challenge there I I don't think there's any fault in this as a first step I don't think it's going to come out looking much like what it is going to end up being but I second Chris's question what are our next step so so it sounds like we're kind of going in circles here because we're not I mean none of us are design experts right um it kind of sounds like you know if you want to go visit North endover so we can kind of start getting an idea of what the new buildings kind of square footage has so we have something to compare it to um I I don't think would be a bad idea for as our next step and then we can kind of come back and start comparing you know hey this Center has you know an arts and crafts room that's 600 square feet or whatever and then we can kind of start formulating what our thoughts are on what we should have because right now I mean we're not going to get very tonight just by looking at this so I think I think tonight I mean I think we've done a really good job I like the idea of we're thinking about it I think we do need to think about it and I think that's important um you know but you know I think it's would be good to maybe even Wilmington go see Wilmington's news Cent see North Andover and see and see what their square footage is just to have we can that way we can get some comparison and knowledge and then we can start giving some recommendations on what we think we got it translated into how many people fit in the square footage yeah square footage is not the goal people that we can serve on a given kind of activity is the I would say the goal and so it needs to be translated into that we can get that when people are in center and they're having their programs well the direct the director will know how many people are just like Chris knows how many people very willing to help us that Jane Bru no this is North Andover not Andover it's Kathy and I can't remember her last but I think we've gone as far as we can tonight we have we need some volunteers anybody will I'll go Rosemary with me anybody else can we do we have to go as a group can we no having two people I I have a laser I have a laser measure you can take with you so you don't have to we don't have to look like the Geeks yes hold that over there's here the the other thing I wouldn't get hung up with labels on every room because as you know at our president Center one room was used for many different activities yeah so like you say I think they have activity room one two three and four or program room one two 3 four so it's generic but we can start getting some ideas I think you know and just kind of comparing to what we have like you know arts and crafts you know right now Arts is in the great room with 1100 square feet so somewhere between 900 and 1100 square F feet probably would be because you have an entire art class in there which makes sense now a game room right now we're using about 300 square feet so a th000 square feet might be a little over well depends talking about where they play pool no talking about upstairs where you play cards and like the game rooms so you know right now little Lounge I think it's just under 400 square F feet you know and then the kitchen is about 300 square feet so you're looking at 6 700 square feet would probably be a pretty good siiz game room as long as the Acoustics are good so we can start taking a look at that just give us you know brainstorming it takes the hypothetical out it's like here's a community that's thought this through and then not Happ with everything they learned it's not perfect but they also have things that are working well it just takes it out of the what ifs and it's like oh here are some examples in how it turned out and it translates it into how many people could we serve in different ways which I think will be helpful to The Architects personally so when we go to North Andover I think we should also take notes on what they're not happy with yes so that we can like the like the fireplace they can't move yeah well if we go a fireplace we can a we can get one of those around they have them yeah anyway all right R come with me yes I will all right we'll set a date okay nice job John has a John has something to say motion to ad oh oh that's right um Jean pra adjourned yes I'm here John CCO yes Marilyn yes um Rosemarie yes John Parson yes har panette yes uh uh Karen um Janowski uh uh Z yes thank you all for e e